leave behind. and we have one more name to add to that list today. we got were just a short time ago that british actor tom wilkinson has died. he was best known for his roles in the full monty, mission: impossible, ghost protocol, and batman begins. he was 75 years old. and that wraps it up for this hour. i'm stephen romo, i'll be back tomorrow at two pm eastern. symone starts right now. ght now. greetings everyone you are watching symone. secretary of state is now facing swatting, security threats, and calls for her impeachment, after she ruled donald trump is disqualified from the primary ballot in her state of maine. so i'll be speaking with secretary shanna bellows about this latest challenge to trump's eligibility for reelection, the threats, everything. plus, a republican presidential

contender nikki haley is playing clean up on the campaign trail, after getting tripped up on what, really should have been an easy question about what caused the civil war. my good friend, in one of the nation's most influential public intellectuals, doctor michael eric dyson is here to put it all in perspective. and, most people across the country think that crime rates are skyrocketing in the u.s.. but let me tell you, the facts actually show that they are wrong. we are talking to the mayor of baltimore, brandon scott, about how he has been able to cut crime in his city. i'm symone sanders-townsend, and i have something to say. o say. 2023 has almost been over, and we are to 16 days from the iowa caucuses. but first and presidential election battle of 2024, and

several states are wrestling with the constitutional question, with huge implications for next year's election. and until now, had never been answered. can a former president be disqualified from a presidential primary ballot for aiding an insurrection? in a bombshell ruling on thursday, the top election official in maine, secretary of state shanna bellows, said the answer is yes. and former president donald trump is ineligible for remains primary ballot under section three of the 14th amendment. the ruling cited trump's constant election lies that, quote, lit the match for the january 6th attack on the capitol. secretary bellows wrote in her 34-page decision, quote, i do not reach this conclusion lightly. democracy is sacred. i am mindful that no secretary of state has ever deprived a presidential candidate of ballot access based on section three of the 14th amendment. i am also mindful, however, that no presidential candidate has ever before engaged in

insurrection. the oath i swear to uphold the constitution comes first above all, and my duty under maine's election laws is to ensure that candidates who appear on the primary ballot are qualified for the office they seek, and quote. now, unlike the storming of the capital to overturn the results of a free and fair election, this ruling in maine was the result of a process laid out in both maine's laws, in the united states constitution. unlike most states, in maine, any registered voter can challenge a candidates eligibility, and that challenge requires that the secretary of state notify the candidate, and then get a hearing. and in that hearing, both sides can make their case before the secretary makes a ruling. and under mains laws, this law has to go down within weeks or even days. secretary belarus and mediately stayed her own ruling, that means she delayed it from taking effect to allow for appeals in maine's superior court. the trump campaign expected to file an appeal soon.

here is what one of the people who challenged trump's eligibility, former portland mayor ethan -- told my colleague, michael steele, about why he filed the complaint. >> well, i think everybody after january 6th was sort of shaking their heads, saying to themselves, how is this even possible? the man in the white house is trying to block the peaceful transfer of power through a violent insurrection. and that moment, we all were thinking he needs to be impeached, number one. and then number two,, can certainly never be allowed back into the white house. >> folks, secretary bellows was not setting off on a fishing expedition. she was doing what the state of maine says is required of her. but this week's decision in maine, it's just one partf a broader reckoning for the stability of our democracy, and the ability of our constitution to preserve it. the colorado republican party recently asked a u.s. supreme court to review a ruling from the colorado supreme court that removed donald trump from the ballot in their state.

the state supreme court also stated its ruling, until january for, to allow for appeals. and then in california, the secretary of state decided this week to include donald trump on the primary ballot, in spite of calls to remove him. meanwhile, trump's candidacy faces ongoing 14th amendment challenges, more than a dozen states across the country. so now, the supreme court faces mounting pressure to wade into uncharted constitutional territory, and settle these 14th amendment questions once and for all. any decision they make will have seismic impacts on our nation. joining me now is main secretary of state, shanna bellow's. welcome to you, madam secretary. this is our second conversation, i had the opportunity to speak to you yesterday when i was sitting in the chair in -- . and yesterday when i asked about your safety amid backlash and targeting from donald trump and his supporters, you told me

that this was about the rule of law, not your personal safety. but since we last spoke, your home was a target of a swathe in call, and that is according to maine state police. now they note after they received the call from an unknown male, saying he had broken into your home, thankfully no one was found inside that did not, there was no danger. but, are you now concerned about your safety, or the safety of your family or your staff? >> i am. and, i decided to speak out today, because threats of violence are unacceptable. swatting the home of an elected official, who is doing their job, is unacceptable. and what my staff, my team have experienced, what they experience all day yesterday, was a constant all onslaught of threatening communications. and that has to stop. here in maine, we've always prided ourselves on agreeing to

disagree on issues of importance, without threats or violence. but unfortunately, we've seen an escalation of the rhetoric, and that needs to stop. >> madam secretary, then what steps are now being taken to ensure that these threats don't impact to your ability to serve the people of maine? and i will note, for our viewers who may not be aware that the ex president posted on his social media site your, a link to your address, your phone number, of your offices. wh done to mitigate any harm that could potentially come your way? >> i am so fortunate. law enforcement in maine have been incredible, they've been communicative, they've been responsive, they've gone above and beyond to keep my team, myself, and my home the people that i love safe. so i'm very grateful for that. i am grateful that they are working this holiday weekend to

keep me safe. but i want to go back to the rule of law and the constitution, because that's what's important. and we, all of us citizens have a role to play in this democracy, in free and fair and respectful debate. and i must say from all across the state of maine, i have received messages of love and support, including from people who disagree with my decision. but, they have expressed that respectfully, and with love. indeed, one former state legislature called me yesterday, a very conservative republican, and he said look, i don't agree with your decision, but i respect you, you are my friend, do you want to come to my house, or do you want some of my firearms? and that type of -- support is important. but it is important for all good people to speak up, and furthermore, i also want to call out the de images that have been placed online of me,

the threatening communications to people in my family, and to my staff, people who work for me. it is designed to instill fear, and to provoke silence, to keep people from speaking out. to send a message, and it is absolutely wrong and we cannot stand for it. >> madam secretary, i am struck by the call you received from a conservative state legislator, given, and the. >> former state legislator. >> former, yes former state legislator. and the answer was to offer you comfort and support and firearms. but not necessarily call out some of the bad actors that representatives's own party, like the former president, who has targeted you, or even folks like maine republican state

representative john andrews, who recently filed a motion to have you impeached. i want to play a clip for you right now from him. >> with this edict, shanna bellow's has unilaterally disenfranchised 300,060 main voters with this partisan move. our nation is a republic, and in maine it's made up of citizens, and not subjects in the -- channel bellows. >> what's your response to the impeachment motion, but also the claim that this disenfranchises voters in your state? >> so first, let's just take the -- option. it's absurd, particularly don't impeach someone for doing their job, as directed by the main state legislature. and keep in mind for viewers at home who may be new to the issue, maine is unique in that the main legislature under title 21 a, it's our election laws, has a specific procedure. so i qualify trump for the

ballot, and they signed his positions and his signature. and then, it was registered to maine voters who have the right to do that under main law, five of them, two former of against eight senators, kimberly -- and thomas. and the former democratic state senator -- who you had on your show earlier, as well as to citizens. they brought that challenge, and under the legislature's directive to me, i must hold a hearing within five days, which i did, and then i am required by the law to issue a decision on that hearing, within five days of the conclusion of the proceedings. that is my obligation under the law, and under the oath i swore to uphold the constitution. now, and you mentioned this earlier, but it's really important, i in my decisions, suspended the effect of my decision for the appeals process to the court to be carried out, because that -- and the rule of law under our

state. so, to impeach me for doing my job and following the law here in maine is absurd, it's some of this inflammatory rhetoric, attack the person rather than debate the issue at hand, distract the public from the issue at hand, rather than focusing on the rule of law and the constitution. so, i'll stop there. i can answer any other questions. >> well madam secretary, along the lines of the rule of law then, i guess my question is, how is your office going to prepare for what is next, right. you are now potentially facing an impeachment inquiry, something that has been introduced. maine's primary election is going to happen in march, it may take time to determine the outcome of the appeals process. what are the next steps here? how are you going to move forward? >> so what i can talk about is the process right. so the superior court has until

january 17th to issue a decision on the ballot challenge. and these types of decisions about ballot access, biden secretary of state happen all the time. for example, we barred chris christie from the ballot because of failure to secure enough signatures. i am required by law to review every candidates and their qualifications for the office the sikh, for access to their ballot. so, the superior court will ruin rule by january 17th, which ballot preparations -- we have suspend the effect of the decision, and we will wait to see what the court tells us to do. that is the process. >> that is the process. madam secretary of state shayna bellows, thank you very much for being here, and i hope you and your family and your staff continue to be safe. appreciate your time. >> thank you so much. >> joining me now to help explain some of this is anthony coley, he is an msnbc justice,

and legal affairs analyst, and a seasoned campaign and government person strategist. just as far as your reaction to the interview with main secretary of state, i thought she was very, she was more fiery and strong against her critics today than effort or any of the days since this ruling came down. >> well, a part of who trump supporters are, this is who they are. and often all it takes, symone, is a match for sunday to ignite them. i think that's what we saw on court on january 6th. i remember vividly donald trump in this hour-long speech on the lips, he tells them to fight like hell, or they won't have a country to fight for. and simone, they take their weapons, they take their tactical gear, they're vests and their helmets, and they go down to the capitol and they fight like hell. they also, 117 law enforcement officers, five of those officers died, they assaulted members of the news media, they defaced our capitol, and they only stopped, symone, when donald trump tells him to stop. and that's the core part of

what the secretary of state's argument is about, did he engage in an insurrection? and that's what i just described, if that's not insurrection, if that's not a disqualifying act for a would-be presidential candidate, then i don't know what is. this is of course going to be a question that the supreme court will have to take up. >> well yes, and i mean you have now differing views from, i mean that's what the legal system in this country, that's why the supreme court exists for a number of different reasons. they are the law of the land, they subtly various questions. colorado is saying one thing, colorado's state supreme court said one, thing the lower courts of color out is that another thing. and now the main secretary of state, the californiasete h dece donald trump from the. ballot you have the proceedings that already happened in michigan, and their 14 other states. when is when it >> that is absolutely taken, my hope and my expecting is that the supreme court will affirmatively decide to consider this case at some

point early next week. i think that's what most people view. now, the question is what they do, right. and, i cannot imagine the supreme court with this conservative super majority, and perhaps it will surprise us, but i cannot imagine this supreme court not finding a way to keep donald trump on the ballot. now, that's okay, i think if that happens, we are all going to have to do what we did in 2020. and by we, i mean all of democrats and everyone, quite frankly, of any party who loves our democracy. they decisively, we will decisively beat this, man donald trump at the ballot, and we're going to have to do it again. >> you know, i want to get your thoughts on what former new jersey governor chris christie, who is a candidate in the republican presidential primary for president, what he said in response to this ruling yesterday, and what he thinks the main decisions would do for donald trump. i want to play this and get your thoughts on the other side. >> it makes him a martyr. you know, he is very good at playing poor me, poor me, he's

always complaining. the poor billionaire from new york, who spending everybody else's money to pay his legal fees, poor me. but when stuff like this happens you know, this should be decided by the voters of the united states. >> this should be divide decided by the voters of the united states, and it makes him a martyr. your thoughts? >> i don't buy that argument. don from is a clear danger to american democracy. anyone who loves democracy should be pleased that we are pursuing any viable option to keep this man away from the presidency. and then to the martyr argument, and then there's also this argument that democrats are going to lose anyway, so why even give a voice to people who would, who would be motivated by that. to that i say, simone, these people are ready motivated, right. and, at the end of the day, it's going to be up to all of us, and democrats and people who love democracy in particular, to appeal to the middle of the country, people

who are still open to the facts of what happened on january 6th. >> you know, i want to note that we are following some breaking ne that we just learned, special counsel jack smith made an 80 page filing on saturday, urging an appeals court to reject former president donald trump's efforts to dismiss his federal election interference case on the grounds of presidential immunity. okay, anthony. one, what do you think? and then to, how much weight could this have with the appeals process? i feel like jack smith is making the case that we have had a conversation about this one too many times. >> this is the one remaining issue that must be decided before this election interference case could be resolved. >> but what is the issue? let's just be very clear, we say immunity, what are we talking about? >> so, donald trump would argue that his actions after the november election were in the outer perimeter, the outer scope of his responsibilities

as president. jack smith says no, you were just campaigning. and then, they point to actions that he took calling the secretary of state and telling the secretary of state that he needs 11,780 some odd votes to, that's campaigning, that has nothing to do with the responsibility of the office of the president. and the other important thing to note, that you and i have talked about before, if someone has a problem with elections in our country, they go through the courts of law. and donald trump and his team did that 60 plus times, and they lost consists consecutively 60 plus times. that should have been the end of. it >> it should have been the end of, it was not, hence why we are here having this conversation. anthony coley, i believe we should your time and your insights my friend, happy new year, good to see you. >> thank you symone. >> coming up next folks, what are the political implications of the challenges to remove donald trump from primary ballots? especially so close to iowa. plus, republican firebrand lauren boebert shops for a

safer congressional district, even though she almost lost her seat next year. does this open the door for a democratic pick up, maybe? our political panel joins me, after the break, with some answers. answers. research hospital save lives. ava: it is my first time having cancer, and it's the very worst. woman: you just have to give. you have to give someone that hope. because of st. jude, she has a chance at life. narrator: every gift counts, and whatever you can give will make a difference for children like ava. make your donation today to help st. jude save lives.

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reactions to donald trump's recent 14th amendment woes. >> the idea that judges are going to take it upon themselves to decide who can and can't be on the ballot, is truly unthinkable. >> the idea that one bureaucrat and an executive position can simply unilaterally disqualify someone from office, that turns on its head every notion of constitutional due process that this country has always abide by, for over 200 years. >> this should be decided by the voters of the united states, it should not be decided by courts. >> my political panel joins me now to discuss. boston globe column list -- and msnbc political analyst and co-hosts of the #sistersinlaw podcast. brendan buck is here, he's an msnbc political analyst who worked with former house speaker john boehner and paul ryan. welcome to you both, happy holidays and happy new year. brendan, i mean i'm really shook by ron desantis in that

clip. i do remember him not just removing people from ballots, but literally duly elected officials from their positions, but that's another story. how are all of these developments, when it comes to the 14th amendment, shaking up the 2024 republican primaries? or is it shaking it up at all? >> yeah, it's probably not shaking it up, because i think that this was another thing that segments that donald from his going to be the nominee. i think he was going to be the nominee before, but it is another situation where the people who are running against him get stuck in this quicksand, where they can't really criticize anything that's going on. they are sort of living in his world. criticizing this action by remaining in colorado would be deeply unpopular with republican voters. but i do want to point out, another thing that nikki haley and -- are all so being said by some people on the left as well. there are a lot of people who think that one person or one entity in the state, unilaterally taking someone off the ballot, is going too far.

maine's senator get -- has said such, the democratic congressman from maine has said something very similar to that. so, it's not that crazy of an idea. and then, think about how much is being filtered through conservative media. like, i absolutely believe that what donald trump did on january 6th should make him ineligible to be president, but it needs to be some level of due process. but imagine what conservative voters are hearing right now, playing into donald trump's idea that there are people of power who are trying to target him, this writes itself. so this is a huge win for him, yet again. and once again, his rivals have really nothing to do or say to can help them. >> you know kimberly, let's talk about that. because i think whether it is the 14th amendment challenges, or this accountability for donald trump, period, when it comes to the many illegal cases that he is already facing, whether in manhattan, in the federal courts, down in georgia. there has often been this hesitancy for folks to, for

folks to bring donald trump to justice, or let the plot process play out if you, and that's a legal process. like what has happened in maine, the courts, because of the effects that it will have on the voters, because some people would view it as unfairness. is that something we shouldn't be so overly concerned about? or should folks really pull back, and just say look, wrong is wrong. if we are a country that says nobody is above the law, if we are a country that has processes and mechanisms like what the main secretary of state did, and frankly also what happened in college california, california secretary of state said well no, i will not remove him. shouldn't, is that okay? i just i don't know, maybe it's just me, i just feel like it's a little too much concern from folks across the board, as brendan said. democrats, i think and republicans, about the optics and feeling like this is unfair. >> yeah so, you can do two things at the same time,

symone. i think that especially given that these are different processes that are happening based on the individual laws and the constitution of each state, because there's a lot of headlines coming at people very quickly, it can be confusing, and it can this early feel like you know what, i would rather make the choice of who i am voting for, as opposed to letting other elected officials or courts make that choice. that feels anti-democratic to me. you can do, you can say that is a constitutional and legal process, and it is playing out. i could personally, if it were up to me, i'd rather voters do it. but what donald trump is saying is wrong. he is again giving this information that this is some sort of political witch hunt, after him that is only aimed at him because he is trying so hard to make america great, and the libuse won't let him. that is a lie, you can disagree with this, as chris christie did. but i think where those

opponents fail is by calling donald trump for the actions and the lies, in the end item accredit, anti constitutional, anti everything rhetoric that he continues to give that is destructive to our nation. i too believe that donald trump is disqualified, constitutionally. but it is up to us to be clear about what is and is not happening. this isn't somebody making a political decision, even though she in maine is a democrat, and donald trump is a republican. this is how the process works in maine. it is different in the process in colorado, and different from the process in california. let that play out, and let that get to the supreme court, which as we said, this is already heading. >> it's going there. brendan, whether it is the 14th amendment challenges or these other legal cases that we have all been in the weeds discussing the last couple of months, there is a potential that donald trump could be

convicted. and you have multiple republican presidential candidates, including nikki haley, ron desantis, even vivek ramaswamy, they've all said in recent days that they would pardon donald trump, if they are elected president he has been convicted. and they believe they would do that because it's the best thing for the country. i am struck that jonathan martin from politico tweeted that, is anyone so sure that a reelected joe biden wouldn't do the same. i wonder what do you think, is this the best thing for the country, if that's what it comes down to? >> i can't imagine joe biden would do that. i mean i am no expert on democratic politics, but i can only imagine how deeply and popular that would be. obviously, it is an echo of what happened with gerald ford and richard nixon, but i think those are very different circumstances. i don't think that donald trump has really ever apologize for anything, or shown any ability to reflect on his mistakes in the past. and so, i imagine he would go

down swinging if he does go down, and not allow any space for that kind of grace. i'm sure that joe biden wants to do what is best to heal the country, i don't think donald from his ever going to put himself in that position where he is going to be willing to accept that kind of thing. >> i think you are absolutely correct. i want to move the house of representatives, before we go. because republican lauren boebert announced that she would switch to a separate republican district in colorado. this is happening, after she only narrowly won reelection by fewer than 600 votes in last year's midterms. and that is the closest margin of any house race in 2022. kimberly, just your thoughts on this. boebert was in a fairly red district, and i just, i don't know, this seems like something that we should not be heralding. we just can't switch, i thought the voters kicked the candidates, not the other way around. >> well, i think this reflects a reality that republicans are

realizing, that 2024 congressional races maybe even more difficult than they anticipated. i think we've seen a lot of factors, primarily the issue of abortion access, really take center stage in the last two congressional elections. the margin is razor thin, and republicans are doing everything that they can to try to hold on to the safest seat as possible. i think a lot of americans don't realize, you don't have to live in a congressional district. there's nothing in the constitution that requires you to live in the district that you represent. this is one of those areas where that is being exploited, in order for political expediency. and, it's an acknowledgment that she is a rather weak candidate, it is an admission of such. >> you know, that united states constitution is missing some things. a quest for an ever more perfect union. kimberly atkins, brendan -- thank you both very much. coming up next, why nikki haley drunk through hoops this week

to try to explain why the civil war happened, without using the word slavery. it is more than just a campaign fund -- fumble, folks, don't go away. le, folks, don't go away .. a better plan is verizon. it starts at 25 dollars a line. (dad) did you say 25 dollars a line? (sister) and save big on things we love, like netflix and max! (dad) oh, that's awesome (mom) spaghetti night -- dinner in 30 (dad) oh, happy day! (vo) a better plan to save is verizon. it starts at $25 per line guaranteed for 3 years and get both netflix and max for just $10/mo. only on verizon. all right. 60 seconds to draw the perfect gift. what's it gonna be? a bottle of don julio, 1942, delivered. are you smarter than a fifth delivered with drizly. gifting without the guessing. drizly.

grader? it seems like republican presidential can tender nikki haley is pretending she is not. this week, haley wappocomo she made in a town hall on new hampshire on wednesday, where she would not acknowledge that slavery was a factor, when a

voter asked a very simple question. what was the cause of the civil war. take a listen. >> well, don't come with an easy question or anything. well, i think the cause of the civil war was basically how government was going to run. the freedoms, and what people could and couldn't do. >> in the year 2023, it's astonishing to me that you answer that question without mentioning the word slavery. >> what do you want me to say about slavery? >> well 12 hours later, haley did some damage control, and did have something to say about slavery, saying she knows slavery was in fact the cause of the war. here is her attempt at a cleanup. >> of course the civil war was about slavery. we know that, that's unquestioned, always the case, we know the civil war was about slavery. but it was also more than that. it was about the freedoms of every individual. >> folks, anyone with an

accurate history book can deduce that the civil war was about the economics of slavery. the war was fought because folks in the south wanted to retain the right to own people who look like me, because it benefited them economically. the blood, the sweat, and the tears of enslaved people who work to produce sugar, cotton, tobacco. i mean, the list goes on, it made the people who owned them rich. but in the mid 19th century, a shift of that wealth became more clear, in the northern and southern regions of the united states. the north began to thrive in manufacturing, and it industrialized faster than the south. the economics of slavery were no longer the driver of wealth for those in the north, and that's where the abolition abolitionist movement grew. meanwhile, the south sickening continued to depend on the labor of black enslaved people, and the northern economy, it began far outpacing the south. and then came the election of president abraham lincoln, who held hostile views towards slavery, and that made southern

leaders feel threatened. so what did they do? well initially, seven southern states decided to form the confederate states of america. then in 1861, the most costly and deadliest war ever fought on american soil began in south carolina, in the confederates fired the first shot with an attack on fort sumner. all because southern states believed owning enslaved people was there right. now, nikki haley, she knows this all too well. after all, she was the governor of south carolina when the deadly mass shooting happened at emmanuel amy church in 2015. that shooting led to the confederate flag being taken down from south carolina's state capital, to two advocacy and many of the community and state legislators. here is what nikki haley had to say on that day. >> in south carolina, we honor tradition, we honor history, we honor heritage. but there is a place for that flag, and that flag needs to be in the museum, where we will continue to make sure that people can honor appropriately.

but the state house, that's an area that belongs to everyone, and no one should ever drop by a state house and feel pain. >> does the sounding a person who does not know what the civil war was about? i did not think so. it is very important that history is told accurately. because when we deny our nation's terrible truths, they are bound to repeat themselves. now when the civil war ended, folks, the confederate leaders, they were welcome back into the fold of the american economy. and they met no serious consequences for leading a treasonous effort to take up arms against in that state's government. in fact, many had statues built in their honor that stand in places of prominence across our country today. does that sound familiar? well to me, it sounds just like when the orchestrator's and the architects and the puppet masters of january 6th, including former president donald trump, went home after their attack at the capitol was over. they went back into american society, after inciting rioters who took up arms against the

united states government, with a plan to assault our democracy. many are held as patriots, by those on the right. but donald trump, he could actually be reelected. this, all of this, is why we are still dealing with what some would call the vestiges of slavery in this country. joining me now to unpack this, i needed somebody good. so it's the distinguished professor of african american and diaspora studies at vanderbilt university, dr. michael eric dyson. doc, thank you for being here. first of all, give me a history ride. >> you've got it, absolutely right. and it's astonishing that in a nation that prides itself on knowing history. if you look at the new york times bestseller list in the nonfiction, always there are five or six or seven books that are obsessed with history. we love history in america, except when it comes to people of color, in this case particularly african american people. we are obsessed with history,

until we fall into what gore vidal, the late great author called the united states of amnesia. and surely, nikki haley is smart enough to understand that the premise of the civil war road directly upon the reins of controlling black flash through slavery. and enslaving african people in america was the bread and butter of american society. not only in the south, by the way. but a new book, the stolen legacy of wealth, written by brother david, talks about this, that the north derived tremendous benefits, even as it articulated its abolitionist politics, the reality is that they benefited in the north, and south, from enslavement. so there's no way that nikki haley is oblivious to this fact. but what she is doing is playing to the -- gallery. she is playing to the maga gallery, and that maga gallery are those who don't want to mention race, don't want to

mention slavery. and let's end by saying this, this is what you get when you try to ban history from america. desantis, you are not off the hook, because you live in a state where you deny people the access to books, banning books, banning black brains, banning black ideas that then lead to this kind of miserable and horrible anti historic system that nikki haley embodied. >> you know, doc, i was just really struck by, and i did not have the civil war on my bingo card as something that we would all be discussing this week. but, i was struck by these parallels, as we started to pull the layers back, between the treasonous terrorists that took up arms against united states government during the civil war, and the architects and the insurrectionists behind january 6th. and, what do those parallels show us, what do they tell us? >> it's a tremendous point. look, they had, the unmitigated

gall to drag the rag of disloyalty, the very emblem that they had rejected the premise of democracy, upon which the nation was founded, and upon which it rested intended for. they drag that low disloyal rag through the most sacred territory in american civil life. they put their feet up on the desk of nancy pelosi, but they shook the mud of their disloyalty on the face of every true american. so there is a tremendous parallel here, pretending that they are the most loyal to the country, when indeed they are the most disloyal. an election had been held, a duly sworn figure had been put into office, or at least was waiting to be put into office. and they rejected the consequences of a duly elected person. and as a result of that, tried to put in their own man.

they were going at every principle, every predicate, and every premise of american democracy, because of their own refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of electoral politics. this is what happened when white supremacy takes the place of american democracy. and make no mistake here, this was the embroiled faction of american disinterest, and disloyalty. this interest in democracy, and disloyalty to the nation, in order to hold and hide their flag. there's a tremendous parallel between january 6th, and what went on there. and you know why? when they asked black people, what do you think about january 6th? it's always january 6th and black america, because we've seen white brothers and sisters -- on the thinnest of premises. things that are good for black people, except this, you lost, you didn't win the election, go home, and then try again. when it comes to them, no, don't take your bitter defeat, and then your lumps and try to vote again, and therefore get a better candidate. no, if you want to engineer the

election so that the outcome predicts your providence, or superiority, and your personal winning. that is the very antithesis of american democracy. >> poof, reverend doctor michael eric dyson, thank you, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up next folks, i have a question for you. do you think that crime is going up in the united states? most people actually think that it is, but in reality, it's not. i'm going to talk about what's behind that divide between perception and reality, and i will be joined by baltimore mayor brandon scott, whose city is on track to have the fewest homicides in nine years. we're going to discuss his strategy for reducing crime, and why it is working. i also want to let you know that tomorrow after some symone, politicsnation will have -- the great reverend al sharpton and his panel are going to celebrate the best and the worst of politics in 2023, and

give out some awards to those who deserve it. you do not t.wa we'll be right back. right back. ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. crime is a major issue for

voters in elections at the local, state, and national levels. you will undoubtedly hear candidates, media outlets described american cities, cities led by democrats, and often people of color, as pockets of violence and bedlam, rather than communities where

every day people live and work. so it's no wonder that a recent gallup poll found that a whopping 77% of americans think that crime is on the rise. but according to fbi data, 2023 saw violent crime fall by 8%, and property crime dropped by 6.8%. few ti have been greater targets of misleading crime narratives than baltimore, maryland. but in 2023, th just doesn't support those crazy -- the homicide rate in baltimore fell by 20% this year, the baltimore sun reports that the city has seen 259 homicides in 2023, compared to 334 at the same time last year. in fact, baltimore is on track to see its first year with fewer than 300 homicides and almost a decade. here to discuss is a man who has a little something to do with that, the baltimore mayor brandon scott. welcome to you sir. and i do want to start this conversation by congratulating you, because from i understand, you had a baby this, week and you had -- so, congratulations to you and

hannah. >> thank you. >> but let's talk about, let's talk about these numbers. what are the factors behind this decrease? because when i saw this, i was shocked. >> listen you know, i think it's important to just set that context, right. not only has baltimore been struggling and stuck above 300 homicides since 2015, but really when you think about it, that's been baltimore my entire life. in fact, growing up in the 1990s at the there were 300 homicides and zero tolerance policing, that's what pushed me into service. but what we've been able to do is, we created the first ever comprehensive doctor-patient plan and our histories city -- introducing that a few years, go introducing that we can do -- that we can focus the reduction strategy on the individuals who are most likely to be the victim of the perpetration of violence, given the option, housing, whatever resources they need to change and. and -- the full --

focusing in on illegal guns, taken 2700 illegal guns off the streets this year alone, and since you brought it up, over 60% of them come from outside of the state of maryland. there are no gun stores in baltimore, they ultimately come from red states and red counties from other places. but also, historic investments into community funds, and continuing our safe streets programs, making sure that we are investing in things like -- that we are us. doing all things that matter, but also doing it while our arrests are going down. and we know why folks want to paint this narrative that crime is up, not only in baltimore, where we are actually having the largest single year drop in history for baltimore. >> it is huge. it is huge, it's huge mister mayor, it's huge. and i just wanted to put a finer point on this, because the community violence and -- programs that you mentioned like safe streets, you have, those programs have to be funded, and you have credited

the american rescue plan, actually, for some of those funds to help fund this program. how are you going to expand these programs when the money from the american rescue plan runs out? are you going to supplement that with private partnerships? >> well, that's what we've been doing all along. we are blessed, i was a part of that meeting with the president, where we asked if we could use our full community funds intervention work. i'm so grateful to him and his team for their leadership. but we already had these programs, it's allowed us to build up, and -- a brand-new office here in baltimore, and we've been able to do is bring in our private partners already. we already have state dollars coming, we've ovaries work with our faculties, and congressional delegations to bring -- we had local money, we are going to continue that. now, the folks see that it works. that's why this work is being attacked by right-wing media here in baltimore, and across the country. because they want us to go back to the days where it's all law enforcement, that people were just being treating any kind,

especially black people. we reduced homicides in baltimore, dropped arrests in baltimore, and ended -- and didn't partnership with the community. >> and in the little time that i have left, mister mayor i guess, what is your advice to other mayors across the country, as they are also tackling the issue of crime in their cities? maybe, some advice for the people down the street from you. >> well listen, we you know i love my sister in my -- >> and she you know what i would say, and she knows this. we all have to do all of the things, there is no silver bullet to reducing crime in a city. you have to make sure that you have community based work, you have to focus your police on the things that matter to policing, criminals, guns, tracking those guns, investing in the community. because it's not just that we have the homicides, unemployment rate is the lowest that it's ever been, at the same time. and yes, they have something to do with each other. >> baltimore mayor brandon scott, thank you very, very much. now folks, a programming change

i want to tell you about. so many people have been coenting on my instagram about this, this is a four pm, show it will be ending after next sunday, in january 7th. but i'm not going anywhere, msnbc is launching a new weekend morning show, i'm very excited to be teaming up with my friends michael steele and alicia menendez, and we are going to bring you the weekend, for two hours every saturday and sunday morning 8 am eastern. it starts saturday january 13th, right here on msnbc, i really hope you will get up early with your coffee and your donuts, and join us. it has just been my absolute pleasure to sit in this chair with you all for almost the last two years. we've covered all the stories, all the news, we are not done yet, okay. we've got more news to cover, i'm coming back tomorrow. so today, i'm just gonna say thank you, thank you so much for watching us. today, for being with us all year long. we're gonna close out 2023 a very strong. i am symone sanders-townsend, and politicsnation with the great reverend al sharpton will

start right after this break. ter this break

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