good morning. you're watching velshi on msnbc. it's sunday, december 21st, and i am sitting in for my friend and colleague, ali velshi. happy new years eve. we made it. we begin this morning with the closing of a chapter. 2023 was a lot of things, but more than anything else, it was the year a former u.s. president was indicted on a host of federal criminal

charges. we made it 234 years is a country without a single president or former president fa criminal indictment. this year, 2023, donald j trump broke that record. not just once, he was charged in four separate criminal charges this year. trump is 91 federal indictments are far in a way the biggest story of 2023. as the year draws to a close, it's worth considering the magnitude of each of these charges. it's also worth reminding ourselves how big the story is. how big this moment says. it's historic. how very not normal everything about trump world has been. donald trump's disregard for social norms, common courtesy, and the rule of law was shocking at first, but, like any of these campaigns, it can be exhausting to think about, to talk about, to live through each and every day, day after day, year after year.

today, with his last day of the first year that a former president was criminally indicted, i want to underscore just how imperative it is that we is a country, as an electorate, and as a model of democracy that we aspire to be to the rest of the world, to really understand this is a really big deal. this is not some random guy who got arrested and loaded up with dozens of felony, is as the former president of the united states of america. the commander-in-chief, the leader of the free world is also the current frontman of former republican nomination for president. as he's doing that, he's raising money and whipping up dangerous outrage based on false claims over attempts to hold him accountable. crucially, the vice grip of power he holds all the brit the republican party is as much a legal survival strategy as it is a political advantage. the year in review for the rest of the gop can also be found

downstream of trump and his alleged carbs. the presidential candidates running against, nikki haley, mark desantis, vivek ramaswamy, they've all defended donald trump. some have even said they'd pardon him. just a few months ago, trump was pushing republicans to shut down the government. this is in part because he mistakenly believe that it would slow down the work, of special counsel jack smith. when kevin mccarthy, speaker of the house, move to prevent a shutdown, trump refused to come to mccarthy's aide as he was ousted from congress. as the leader, that's not got to feel good. the new year, trump is going to be going from campaign rallies to court trials, and persecution during lawful prosecution, all while promising ranch. we already owhat trump and his allies are planning an executive power f he returns to office. in ju, e new york times reported, quote, mr. trump has a broader goal.

to alter the balance of power, increasing the presidents authority over every part of the federal government that now operates with any measure of independence from political interference by the white house. in 2024, which starts in just a couple hours, we are about to find out if our democratic institutions are truly up where the challenge ahead. or, if they're autocratic, trumpian version of america is going to be our new reality. here to help us unpack all of this, nbc news presidential historian and ruth ben-ghiat, professor of history at nyu. she is also the author of the important book, strongman, from mussolini to the president. happy new year and advance. michael, we've heard the word unprecedented thrown around a lots. this, spurring donald trump can be judging from a primary state to a court, back and forth. has the country ever seen

anything on any level like this, and how ready are we to deal with what is going to look like? >> just to give you an example, let's go through the time machine back to the distant year of 2000 and 2000 election. all core versus george w. bush. couple days before the 2000 election, it was revealed the george w. bush, as a young, man had gotten a deal, it's diy charge in 1976. 24 years earlier. bush's aides, to this day, think that almost robbed him of the ability to become president. they feel that a number of, millions of americans, began shifting away from bush because they thought this was a deal breaker for someone who might be presidents. you know, charles and ruth, compare that to what we've got this morning. at the same time, unlike dictators in history, like hitler, mussolini, and the

emperor of japan, we've got just as you mentioned, charles, more than two centuries of american democracy, a fierce machine behind those. let's make sure we don't lose it to a dictatorship because we vandalized at, and shackle, it with things like third parties, spoilers, jerry mattered congress, or supreme court one third appointed by donald trump. >> you know, michael, you use the word dictatorship and i can't help but think about words that are synonymous, or just closely associated with revenge, power, power grab, retribution, ruth, we saw all of this linger for donald trump, then accelerate. it got to a hyper fever pitch in 2023. as we look, ahead in the new year, with the legal calendar and the primary calendar he did not for donald trump, do you think that this rhetoric is going to intensify? where does it go from here? >> i think that we've just seen the beginning. what we're going to see during

this next year is a lot of sights and sounds that we have never experienced before some arrogance. you know, charles, we're talking about how audit is for this guy to run for president with all his indictments, 91, and promising to be a dictator of retribution and revenge if he's elected. through all of american history, we've never seen a major party candidates under these, under a number of indictments and also making these kinds of dictatorial authoritarian threats. yet, we, on msnbc, a little earlier, recorded a poll that if there is a serious third party candidate in the race, donald trump could run way ahead of joe biden despite the fact that he's burdened with all of that. abraham lincoln would cry. >> ruth, i want to get your take on the language piece i was talking about. the retribution, the revenge,

he is literally going to campaign rallies promising his followers and accolades that he is their retribution. what does that say to you, and how much of a concern should be for the electorate? >> yeah, while he has nowhere else to go because he sees, he's a marketer as well as a politician. he test these things out and he sees that there is an appetite for this kinds of language of revenge. it is an old autocratic playbook, ploy. he didn't invent this. you have legal troubles and you proclaimed herself a victim. then people feel protective of you, and they want to help you. that is part of personality cults. so you are the victim that needs support of followers. he's going to keep doing this. we've also seen that it's extremely concerning, and an uptick in violence, language,

demonize in rhetoric, calling people vernon. all of this unfortunately, will continue. donald trump is a desperate man. you know, the essence of authoritarianism is getting, power getting back to power, so you can arrange government to major legal problems go away forever. that is his aim so that he can get away with his past crimes and commit future crimes that have no consequences. >> ruth, while we're, here i want to still get your reaction to another quote. we've been talking about language inward usage. donald trump is also someone who, right, now has a significant amount of his future depending on where the supreme court goes on a number of different issues. in talking about, this are writing about, this abraham candy, in an ongoing legal battle concerning trump 14th amendments conversation and different states, he's written at the u.s. preme court

refuses to disqualify donald p for running for ent after leading an insurrection on ary six 2021, that it will bthlatest indication that the confederate loss the military battles, they won illegal r. as a non erate declared around the time during the war, the 14th and 15th amendments based it forever, but we intend to make them dead letters. they are still executing these amendments now in black roads, and blue shorts, while calling themselves patriots. that is some pretty -- but historical supportive language, what do you take from that, and what should we be expecting rain as we look to the supreme court to sort this out? >> yeah well, you know, as my colleague said, his words or evoking that this is a battle for the soul of our country. there are very powerful, intimidating forces of reaction. what we're living through is a

right-wing counter revolution by christian nationalists, racists, all of those in our country who don't want to accept that we are and multi racial democracy. so this is just part of it. this attempt to use our institutions to uphold retrograde, racists, values and versions of history. lee have a chance in 2024 to prove all of that wrong. that we are a multi racial democracy, and no one will take that away from us. but we are seeing the kind of radicalization and the supreme court, and that's an unfortunate historically unprecedented leak developments that we've got to deal with. >> michael, let's talk political pugilism. this is not, we are possibly

looking at a rematch between joseph biden, and donald j trump. well can you tell us about these sorts of political rematches, are we going to see the return of cleveland? what does this look like in terms of what we're talking about in regards to a potential matchup between donald trump and joe biden? >> well that's exactly, we're looking back to that period where we saw three elections in the late 19th century where he had benjamin harrison running against his democratic opponent. then it went back and forth. you have non consecutive presidential terms. i think the more important thing is, the number of people who are saying, in the republican party, and some democratic leaders, which i think is outrageous, and shock again, you know, let's do this at the polls. let's not push the 14th amendment of the constitution after all, it's just an

amendment. well, the 14th amendment is just as much about this part of the constitution as anything else. it clearly says that if you've been in an insurrection, you cannot serve as a federal officer of the united states. lot of jefferson david had run for president of the united states. let's say 1872, and somehow, it won the election? does anyone really think that people would have just said to secretaries of states, in various states, we'll just let him stay on the ballots, let the voters vote him, off should be their choice or not that at a secretary of state. my point, is if we love our democracy, if we want to look at the tradition through which it has survived all of these crises for over two centuries, you can't shackle. it you can't vandalize it by telling secretaries of state not to do their stuff. this is a gerrymandered congress, there's too much money in politics. that has happened too much. let the system operates.

part of it is a secretary of state in various states. under state law. including colorado and maine. saying this guy doesn't meet the standards of the constitution, just as of somebody tried to run for president at the age of eight years old. that person would not be put on the ballot. why should someone, if they find that the 14th amendment has been violated by donald trump. >> history in context, so important to this discussion, thank you for getting us started on this new years eve. you have been great. coming up, 2023 was not the year that republicans got their groove back even if they got -- from ousting their own speaker to debating about whether or not to shut down the government, to the george santos era. it's been something to watch. we catalog the lows and the -- for some smart political minds to make predictions about the year to come. plus, more than half 1 million

workers took to the picket lines last year. we'll talk about what the labor movement accomplished in the year of the strike, and the struggles to come, as we look forward to 2024. and, it will be my great pleasure to welcome to the show not one, not two, but three extremely important members of congress. congressman james clyburn, he assistant democratic leader of the house, congressman thompson, who of course to at the january six committee, and the pride of texas, congresswoman -- you won't want to miss any of these important conversations. and charles coleman junior, there will be more on velshi when we return. when we return

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you're watching velshi on msnbc. and charles coleman junior in for ali today. now 2023 was a weird year for the republican party. in fairness, it's hard to be a

normal party when you're a de facto leader is the guy who got impeached twice, lost the last election, and has since been charged with 91 felonies. indeed, republicans have been through it this past year. but, it's hard to feel too bad when you end up wet from the same storm that you engineered. nbc senior capitol hill correspondent, garrett hague, has seen it all. here's his recap. >> the strength of donald trump's hold on the republican party as one of the first questions 2024 may answer. the gop presidential field, which peaked with more than a dozen active candidates in 2023, and the air with just five campaigns remaining. polling shows the republican race remains donald trump's to lose. >> we're leading with 51% while ron desantis ammonia says that less than 19, and haley is at 60. what happened to the haley surge? >> the early stage gauntlet of iowa, new hampshire, nevada,

and south carolina, and likely to one other feels fthcod be a e super tuesday on march 5th. trump's biggest roadblock on the path to the convention a nomination in july may not be another candidate at all. legal challenges, including 91 criminal charges, spread across four cases. a civil fraud trial is set to conclude in january, which is already bogged down in new york. he's denied all charges. >> in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, i shouldn't be sitting in a courthouse. >> january good be a pivotal bill -- this could lead to deadlines that could lead to a partial shutdown defund while legislators work on a bill to send aid to israel and ukraine, as well as overall immigration policy. >> negotiations are underway in artist until we get there. >> all will host a republican aim to pick up steam. >> we expect to depose the

president, then we will be happy to have a public hearing with him. >> the house will face those challenges with the majority that's even slimmer than the one that began within 2023 when they struggled for days to elect kevin mccarthy as speaker and historic ballot. >> he will have the votes. >> with mccarthy who made history a second time when he was ousted from the speakership by a road republicans in october, retiring from congress in december. >> i would do it all again. >> new york's george santos, who practically re-wrote the definition of congressional scandal -- >> if i, leave they. when >> expelled in disgrace, and facing federal prosecution. while new house speaker, mike johnson, continues to learn on the job, top senate republican, mitch mcconnell, will likely remain the subject of speculation over how long he'll hold on to his leadership post after a march concussion contributed to two frightening freezes by the 81-year-old. >> all right, i'm, sorry we're gonna need a minute. >> whoever's in charge, the

parties key issues in 2024 seemed sets. addressing border security and the economy, uniting. them >> i think we need to prove in 2024 that we help the policies, will, and ability to make those differences. >> finding consensus on abortion, in, yes trump, among the issues that divide the parties old guard from the new. >> the focus has to be just completely on making sure that we don't return donald trump to the white house. >> what we learned about republicans in 2024? >> that there will be tumultuous, there will be, issues disagreements. guess? what this disagreements in every household in america. >> nbc news, washington. >> gotta love byron doubles and his optimism. don't go anywhere, right after a quick, break all sort through all of these gop -- with former republican congressman, joe walsh, and republican strategist, reena shaw. i'm charles coleman junior in for ali velshi, we will be right back. t back

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i'm charles coleman junior sitting in for ali velshi. let's talk about the tumultuous year that republican politics. where the 2024 will be the year that the republican party, fracture by donald trump, will finally put itself back together. joining me now to unpack all of this is former republican congressman, george waltz. host avoids like what joe walsh. and, my friend, founder of re-last strategies and the original never trumper. joe, yesterday, we saw jack smith, special counsel to the doj, submit more than 80-page violent against this claim. this is basically his knockout punch being thrown around all of his charges related to this insurrection. but do you think his chances are of having these charges dismissed? >> not, not those charges.

to say that trump has immunity is to say that trump is above the law and that can do in won't stay, period, not this country. they know that. what they're hoping, for charles, is a ruling from the main efforts to remove trump from the ballot. this is the beginning of what's going to be a year of utter legal chaos. that, sadly, may play in trump's benefits. >> i think what you're talking about in terms of playing towards trump's benefit is what gives so many different voters a lot of concern and anxiety. can you elaborate on what you mean by that, and if you have any thoughts of how we can stop it? >> trump is the biggest victim in the history of the world. his, based, charles believe that.

his base believes that. i've heard from so many independents and voters who really don't like either party, you have told me over the course of the last couple months that this just seems like it's piling up. joe, he has been indicted four times. you've got four different courts going after him. now, you've got states trying to keep him off the ballot. come, ángel, this is piling up. they don't want him to run. my fear, charles, is that that message will resonate with voters beyond just his base. the democrats need to wake up to this. they need to get their act together to defeat him. >> reena, i want to ask you. you are the republican strategist year. the party, generally speaking, has really planted its flag on the notion of states race, states right, states rights. you, know that's something that you were tweeting about earlier

this week on x. you pointed out the hypocrisy, basically, between a party that generally speaking favors stage rights, but in this instance, when you're talking about colorado, maine, possibly others, is now crying foul. how do you strategically deal with the inherent topography between those two competing ideals, and move forward? or, at this point, with respect to the gop on the right, does consistency even matter? >> back when i was on the hill, a year and a half ago, the playbook was very different on how to change hearts and minds. now, you've got to be rooted and facts. for me, the challenge has been to get through to friends, colleagues, in acquaintances who are feeling like these colorado and main rulings are wrong. there are people who say to me, why can't we let the voters decide at the ballot box? the best chance we have of ridding donald ourselves, ourselves, our party, is to defeat him in the ballot box. we saw how all that worked in

2020. he continues to contest that elections results, he never went away. he remains on -- that's a separate matter. talking about these rulings, and others that may follow that are, again, not favorable to trump's candidacy in 2024, you have to talk about judicial interpretation. i always say that if you are a nation of law, as you've got to grasp the conduct septa federalism. that's what's at play here. the division between federal and state government. to that a, here know, this is a federal race. he should not be kicked off the ballot in certain states. well, again, the laws on the book, and maine, make it so that their secretary of state can unilaterally decide. therefore, the argument is not so hard to make, when you talk about being a nation of laws, about judicial interpretation, and about the very fact that you can't just erase one amendments, and pay attention to the others. and the convenience. you know, this is a reality here. it's a republican party that conveniently wants to forget

that they were gleeful about abortion being kicked back to the state. why should this be different? state should be able to decide what is best for their states, if they believe a candidate does not fit the requirements, there, for their laws on the book allow it to be determined this way. this is the only way we can talk about it. you can't go outside this bubble because then you leave the door open to not just the conspiracy theory crowd refuting certain facts, but you always hear the argument go back to -- and that's what donald trump wins. >> reena, what is it going to take for the rest of the party to finally grow a backbone and distance themselves from trump and maga ideology? i, mean ever since 2020, we have seen, across the country, maga ideology and maga candidates get molly walked in election after election. yet, and still, there is this power grip on the party. where does the republican party

grow a backbone and say not only is this not a good idea for, us but it is simply not working? >> it's very simple, charles. you do it with better candidates. you do it with better quality candidates. you don't do it with people like nikki haley who are wishy-washy on both sides. this, right now, the massive candidates are those who believe that trumpism works. continues to work. we've seen the empirical data that it doesn't. to rid the party of maga, it is not something we can do in the short term. we can do it incrementally. keeping people like -- who talk about moderate, be moderate, that not been a bad thing. we talk about fiscal conservatism. we also get better people running. that is a challenge the republicans have had for decades. long before me, before i came into the party at the age of 18. >> joe, i saw you shaking your head vehemently. i want to give you about 30 seconds to respond to that one. >> quickly, i love reena, but it's too late. wake the hell up america. this is the republican party.

i am a hard-core conservative but i opposed trump. i could never, ever get elected as a republic at again. this is what this party is. it is not going to change. it must be defeated. and a story. happy new year. >> and with that, happy new year. joe walsh, exclamation point on a great conversation. thanks to you both. coming up, i will be joined by congressman james clyburn of south carolina who is a key member of the democratic leadership team. as well as one of joe biden's critical allies in the 2020 democratic primaries. i'm charles coleman junior, that's what's next on velshi. what's next on velshi and he gets the summer house. what? save 35% off your first autoship order. at chewy. ♪ on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears! thanks to always ultra thins... with rapiddry technology... that absorbs two times faster. hellooo clean and comfortable.

always. fear no gush. welcome back to velshi.

i'm charles coleman junior, in for ali today. as we get set to ring in the new year, i am super excited to

welcome my next guest. joining me now is congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. he represents the states six consecutive district, and serves as a democratic leader. beyond all of that, this is my friend, my brother, and my fraternity man. how are you? good afternoon, or good morning, rather. let's get right to it. this current congress, it has been the least productive in decades, and we've got to really deal squarely with that. according to axioms, just 20 have been in the house and the senate have passed this year. that is just 20. there is a laundry list of virginia items that still need to get done. we have funding from the government on a permanent basis, we've got passing bills for allies abroad and foreign aid. we've got immigration reform. so many others. you've been in the seat for a very long time. do you see any clear path to get us beyond this point of stagnation? >> first of all, thank you very much for having me, and happy

new year to my friend. thank you so much for having me with you. we are in a very critical state here in this country. and it's reflective in congress. as you know, the republican party has just seemed to have disintegrated. it's dal controlled by what seems to be a cult, and they have decided that there are certain things that they will not allowed to happen. that is what it takes to continue this country on its pursuit of perfection. that is what this country is about, since the beginning. we have always been in pursuit of a more perfect union. they seem to want everything to be perfect, to their liking, or if not, it doesn't happen. that is why we have not gotten much done in the congress.

when we have, to close ranks to do it benefits the country, we have seen, and reaction from the republican base, first, throwing out a speaker of the white house for working with the democrats, in order to keep the country moving forward. now, another threats for the new speaker of the house. because he has decided that is necessary to do things to keep the government running. i don't see anything happening after a definitive electorate. that's what makes 2024 so important, that's what makes these primaries so important. it will make its decisions. the republican voters have a right to vote for to --

without clouds hanging over them. this cloud can be removed very quickly. with al gore, it also did with former president nixon. >> charles men club earn, i'm going to -- if nobody says, it i'm going to say. it sir, you, sir, are in no small part responsible for altering the course of history when it comes to presidential elections. everyone remembers what happened during the primaries in 2020. joe biden came into south carolina and fourth place. it was your endorsements, and that primary, that catapulted him to gain the momentum that was necessary to secure the nomination and ultimately become the presidents. a lot of what happened there was given a nod to block america. i've got to ask you straight.

do you feel like the president has delivered on what that nod represented? >> absolutely. this could go down by the numbers. starting with the rescue act. get in our schools reopened. getting our businesses back on their feet. he did the things that were necessary. bring in over half of the children who are living in poverty, for this is a result of covid-19, this brought them out of poverty with the rescue plan. he moved with the large's infrastructure bill that we have had in this country since dwight eisenhower's state highway. then the chips and science act bringing manufacturing back to this country. then, he went with the infrastructure of inflation reduction act. this got across this medicine.

reducing the cost of insulin down to $35. i can tell you, i saw eight and $900 a month in bills because she was a full shot a day diabetic. i know what it is if you can reduce the cost $35 a month. the pack act. getting those veterans who were not treated fairly company back from the vietnam war. getting that done. then, the all important public service elimination of the student debt a public service. over 100 and $32 million in debt relief to 3.4 million people. student debt relief. we can't, that one part that the supreme court outlawed, and we don't even talk about the hundred and 32 million, many of them in my district.

i ran across the gentlemen a couple weeks ago who had 200,000 dollar relief from -- yet three degrees, money for all of them, he was going to his grave holding that. because of joe, biden it's gone away. yes, he has kept this process. now, we have not been able to -- why? the supreme has prevented us from doing it. just like they prevented us from doing the other part of debt relief, joe biden has kept his promise to the american people, and i think he's been an incredibly good president. i think the best producer, since lyndon johnson, the great society program back in the 1964, and 65. >> that is high praise for the president. it sounds to me like you might need to get in contact with his campaign. his campaign might need to get in contact with you. right now, that message isn't breaking through.

there's about a 63% approval rating among black americans when they voted for him at about 92%. something about the talking points you just talked about is not getting to the actual audience that joe biden seeks to reach. i want to move on and ask you about house minority leader, hakeem jeffries, really quickly. he is seeming to be the next wave. he has a lot in front of him with respect to a congress that is republican-controlled, but trying to steer the democratic party in a particular direction. as the elder statesman, give the one piece of advice that you have given him to try to help him move along, and move the agenda forward. >> he has a lot in front of him. he has a lot of people behind him as well. he is an incredible leader, he is keeping our caucus together, and he is articulating issues in the way that they need to be articulated. i do believe that i will be

standing with him here on january 15th, on martin luther king junior day, we'll be here in the south carolina together, and he will have enough set on that day. that is going to -- throughout the country on this. he believes, as i believe, that this democracy is at stake. the freedoms of americans are at stake. we must re-elect joe biden and do it in a way that would demonstrate to the magra public ends, and all others who might be looking for an autocracy, that democracy will continue the rule the day here in the united states of america. >> last question, congressman, before i let you go. are you throwing the fish by this year and can i come? that's all we need to now. congressman -- thank you so much are joining me. >> thank you. >> coming up, we'll talk about why 2023 was such a big year

for labor strikes. what was gained by the labor movement, and what is coming ahead? i'm charles coleman junior, in for ali velshi. we will be right back. l be right back.

welcome back to velshi on msnbc. i'm charles coleman junior in for ali today. 2023 was a transformative year for organized labor, but the most strikes against private

companies that we've seen since 2011. more than half a maryland workers took to the picket lines across the country. autoworkers to hollywood actors, writers, airline pilots to u.p.s. employees. everything in between. workers throughout the year have raised their voices and demanded better treatment from corporate america. experts are telling us that this momentum is expected to carry into the new year. and 2024, minimum wage increases will be enacted in 22 states. impacting some 10 million workers. now there are a lot of key factors. [inaudible]

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