this hour, fireworks in new

year's eve celebrations around the world. and, donald trump's legal life. a special counsel launches a new attack on trump's immunity defense while the former presidents legal team gears up to keep his name on the primary ballot in several states. ♪ ♪ ♪ a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin today in maine where police are investigating a incident at the home of its secretary of state. the fake emergency call to the home of shana bellows coming after her decision to disqualify donald trump from that states primary ballot. fellas is telling msnbc that she is receiving nonstop threats of violence. >> i also want to call out the dehumanizing images that have

been placed online of me. the threatening communications to people in my family, and to my staff. people who work for. me i is designed to instill fear, and to provoke silence, to keep people from speaking out. to send a message. that is absolutely wrong. we cannot stand for it. >> in just a few minutes, we will speak with colorado secretary of state who has also been the target of many threats. this is special counsel jack smith, on saturday, urged the d.c. appeals court to reject trump's claims that he's immune from criminal charges for plotting to overturn the 2020 election. the trial is set to begin in early march. currently on hold until trump's attempts to dismiss the charges are result. three former trump white house insiders are sounding new alarms over a second trump term, and what it could mean for the country. for the first time, all three

have sat together for an interview. >> he knows how to use government better this time. he can put die hard loyalists who can organize every level of government against his detractors, against the american people, against the media. it's almost too scary to fully wrap your head around, but it could look like. >> the american people, people in general, have short memories. they might forget the chaos of the trump years. also, they might not be pain attention to what he say now. the threat to democracy that he has. >> the fact that he feels he needs to be a dictator, alone, shows he is a weak and feeble man who has no sense of character and integrity. he is no sense of leadership. >> joining me now is msnbc correspondent. i, tell me about this 80 page brief that was filed on saturday. what do you know about it? >> this was a stunning brief to this team, again, this is the d.c. election interference

case. it's the issue of presidential immunity. the big question, is can a former president be charged with a crime he is alleged have committed while in office? as a former president? in this brief, they say, yes. he absolutely can, he absolutely should be. now, trump's team says that presidential immunity, and the idea of double jaquaree means that they should absolutely be dismissed. jack smith's team thinks the opposite. there is a portion of this violent that i think the simply gets to the gravity of the situation here. they, say in part, when a president lawfully seeks to retain power through -- could jeopardize both the presidency itself and the very foundations of our democratic system of government. alex, of, course none of this happens in a vacuum. donald trump, even if he ends up running for president, is going to have a very busy january. the arguments in this case, and the importance of this d.c., will be on january 9th.

he's expected to be in court on january 11th for the closing arguments of the civil trial in new york. as well as the january 15th, that's the iowa caucus. alex. >> very busy. let's get back to what we saw in the abc news interview today with the three former trump white house insiders. elizabeth garrison, cassidy hutchinson, they were all warned of grave threats to our democracy of donald trump is reelected. what's the biggest takeaway for this interview? >> this was an interview with three people who were, as it goes, and the room when it happens. since, then they've written books, they've done tv interviews. they're very much sounding the alarm on what they think a second term of a donald trump presidency would look like. i want to listen to some folks here. >> he knows how to use government better this time. he can put die hard loyalists who could recognize every level of government against his

detracto american people, the media. it's almost too scary to fully wrap your head around what it could look like. >> the singular focus needs to be, if he is the nominee, on making sure that he is not elected the president again next november. >> there is the opinion of these three people who have worked in the trump administration but there is also the reality of the situation on the ground right now, in these battleground states. donald trump is leading by a significant margin against his primary opponents and almost every single poll. when it comes to a general elecon matchup, he is neck and ck of president biden. alex. >> yeah, you are, right that's how it stands, as of. no thanks so much, happy new year to you, my friend. in the meantime, we have breaking news on yet another confrontation on u.s. ships and a radiant back houthi both in the red sea. it is the most aggressive attack since the tensions ramped up a few months ago. nbc news correspondent eric gilchrist is traveling with the president. he's joining me from st. croix. eric, what happened there?

>> alex, president biden was briefed on the incident by his national security adviser here on st. croix. as we understand over the pentagon, this was a container ship that was moving through the red sea when for small houthi boats move toward the ship. the rebels on those boats opened fire on the ship, exchanged gunfire with security forces on the ship before a distress call went out, and was responded to by the u.s. navy. helicopters from the navy movie towards this area, in an effort to warn off the ships, those rebels opened fire on the navy helicopters with small arms and larger weapons, according to the statement from sitcom. these helicopters returned fire, they were able to sink three of those four ships, and kill the rebels on board. the four ship was able to get away. by our, count this is the 24th attack by houthi rebels on shipping lanes and the red sea since november 19th. a spokesman for the national security council appeared an embassy this morning it was asked whether the u.s. is

considering a preemptive strike on these houthi backed, iran-backed rebels in the red sea. here's what he had to say. >> we're going to do what we have to do to protect this. we're not ruling anything in or out. we made clear publicly to the houthis, we've made clear privately to our allies and partners in the region, we take these threats seriously. we're going to make the right decisions moving forward. >> the ship was actually, it came under attack yesterday as well. so two attacks in two days by this ship. that shipping company has said that it is pausing all of its operations through the red sea for at least 48 hours. the second time in a month. the big concern here, alex, is that these attacks, mostly, by drone and by missile, up until today, we will continue in that area and have major impact on economic activity moving through the red sea. alex. >> that could be a big problem. we're watching that closely. thank you so much for that. again, happy new year to you too, my friend.

so it is the biggest party of the year, and it is an even bigger worry for law enforcement. what is happening in times square to keep everyone safe, we're back in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds gentle on her skin. tide free & gentle is epa safer choice certified. it's got to be tide. so it is already 2024 on the

other side of the world. take a look at the scene. it's in australia. you can see the night sky lit up beautifully by fireworks there. that is on the sydney harbor bridge. then, let's check out taiwan. the taipei 101 skyscraper, look at that spectacular sights from 16,000 fireworks going up and down that building. that is extraordinary. at the same time, the party got started in hong kong as the victoria harbor, big tent party right there as well. so, let's move back to here in new york. final preparations are underway for tonight's new year's eve celebrations in times square. we've got 1 million people expected to watch the ball drop alive where our friend at -- is there right now, joining us.

it does look like it's getting to weep a crowded there behind you. so, give us a sense of what's happening in 2024 arriving in less than 11 hours there. you've got people that are filling up the area. what are they telling you about the weight? >> that's right, alex. people are starting to fill in here, in some cases, they're on the ground with blankets, extra or sweatshirts to keep themselves warm because it's a bit chilly out here. when you talk to people, they are ready for a party. they are not too worried about all the factors that have gone into making this a safe celebration for the million people expected here tonight. what the nypd has done to make this all a safe of possible is to create, essentially, these cordon sections, block by block, corner by corner, so there are these smaller groups of revelers. the smaller party sections where there are more manageable, they can walk through and talk to people in the crowd, canines can move through more clearly, because new york city has not

only been preparing for the possibility of protests here, but also given the heightened threat level from the conflict in the middle east, and, what we know happened last, year this time last year, a man from maine drove to new york city for new year's eve and attacked three police officers with the machete here. all of these factors has lead to increased police presence, and additional technology. there are drones, helicopters, there are boats out on the water here in new york. there are officers, of course, and uniform and on horseback, but also in plain clothes to our disguised as people who are taking part in all of the celebrations, alex. >> absolutely. our colleague, george soliz, he was out there this morning. he was talking with the revelers who were braving the cold here in new york for tonight's festivities. let's take a listen to what they told him about that. >> you are prepared to wait till midnight? >> i am. i put layers on, i got my sign. so that everyone in ohio can

see me. >> how do you plan on toughening out the next couple hours before the countdown? >> friese, my fingers already frozen. we have warmer than everything, we're ready. >> so here is what i'm noticing. you are more bundled up than you were yesterday when we saw you out and about. all right, you've taken care to look at the forecast and see what's heading your way. what about folks who haven't necessarily done that. our 30s doing anything to help them out? other hand warmer given out? >> there are hand warmer's and there are police officers talking to families, making sure they know where to go to the restaurant, where to get some hot coffee or food if they need help. but you know, the other thing to take into consideration here, alex, i'm at work, and some of these people have some liquid courage helping them out. i need all my layers. a lot of the people here are ready for a party. at least at this, point and some of them have been here since the wee hours of the morning, as you know, from george. they're still hanging in there. i haven't seen people given up

yet. this is, to so many people, not just around the country but around the world, this is a once in a lifetime thing. many new yorkers trying to stay clear of times square just because they know how crazy the party can get here. it's that opportunity. they want to be part of something. they want someone on their, in their family back home, or whatever country they're coming from, to see them on the screen. you know, cheering, shouting, laugh in. that is all a part of the memories they're building here. i don't think the colts has turned any of those people off, frankly. >> all of gotta say is that it's 1:13 in the afternoon. if people already have a bit of that liquid courage, good for them staying up all the way to midnight. there is no way i could. hats off of you can do that. all right -- >> no comment. >> no comment, that's cool. antonio hilton, very happy new year to you, my friend. thanks so much. coming up later, a number about the economy might not have thought about in a long time. first, the border battle. that's heating up on sunday talk shows.

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breaking news out of the red sea. the u.s. military sank three houthi man ships today after the iran-backed military groups attacked the harper ship and fired at a u.s. legal helicopter. joining me now is democratic texas congressman, a member of the foreign affairs committee. welcome to you, thanks for joining us on this new year's eve. if these attacks continue, and the u.s. military is forced to defend shipping lanes, could

the u.s. get dragged into a more direct conflict with iran? >> well, thanks alex, this is a multinational issue, we're talking about the flow of international commerce through one of the most important waterways in the world. it has a huge impact on global trade, to this is not just an american responsibility, and i think we've seen the secretary of defense moving to form a global international reaction to this. so it won't just fall on us, but i think i important obviously, to protect international trade, and not let these influence with the houthis, or hezbollah or hamas, to continue to destabilize that region, does something we're going to have to stand up to, it's part of our responsibility as a leader the free world. >> what's happening on the red sea, it's just one reason why there is growing concern at the israel-hamas war would expand in the new year. the military backed group,

hezbollah, has been exchanging fire across israel lebanon border in the north. how concerned are you that this could expand into a wider regional war? >> yeah,, that's exactly, right alex. this is been a concern from the beginning, to make sure this does not become a regional conflict. i think your viewers should know, iran is behind us. they're doing this purposely to try and increase the pressure on israel, but also in the united states, on the west in general. through the houthis, hezbollah, and of course, through the support of hamas is a coordinated effort. we have to stand up to. it feels out there iranian-backed officials in iran and syria that are talking or u.s. forces. we've had to take strikes against. as this is original issue. this is a part of why we have to set up to iran, but also, try and avoid a wider regional conflict for israel. they certainly have a right to defend themselves in the rockets coming into northern israel from lebanon, but we need to ensure, do what we can, i hope, to prevent a wider

conflict. >> 100, percent i think many agree with. that let's move stateside, as you will, know the border debate is heating up. let's take a listen to what two of your colleagues on both sides of the aisle are state about it today. here it is. >> this is chaos. so enough is enough. it's time to de-poured those who come into the united states. president biden can either do, that for watched, lose, watch the next president of course was policies on the books. >> he needs to look at the pull factor. the pull factor is that as long as people are coming to the border, and they feel that their heaviness beat bump, and they're being released, and waiting for, five, six years for adjudication, then they're going to keep coming. >> look, there are so many issues in the big picture. what's your reaction to it? >> well, my reaction is that our immigration system is broken. part of the way it's broken is that it does take too long for us to process asylum claims. most of it, i think 90% or so

of the folks who apply for asylum are not going to have that granted. so we do need to speed up that process. that, actually, is what we're trying to do by providing more funding to our -- that how this processing. what we're seeing, i, thank too often from folks like ted cruz, on behalf of the u.s. senate, are folks who don't want to do anything to try to fix this issue. they wanted as a political issue. it is a crisis. my family comes from brownsville, texas. the tip of texas. my grandfather was a customs officer. this is been an ongoing crisis for number of decades. it's been made worse by economic conditions. let we have to respond to. it needs to be a bipartisan exit, it shouldn't just be about politics. unfortunately, i see it being used by folks like ted cruz too much in that vein. >> we're going to get to that race in just a minute. i have a couple more questions, versus, you, know the doj is threatening to sue texas governor greg abbott over the states new anti immigration law, making it a state crime to

cross into texas for mexico without federal authorization. abbott has vowed to fight back. this law has gotten a lot of public outcry. how does it compare to all the other immigration policies that governor abbott is trying to put in place? >> yeah, well this treads on what's clearly federal responsibility. that's why it's obviously, on its, facing my pinion, unconstitutional. everyone, every law student and constitutional law class can tell you that immigration is the sole role of the government, we need to enforce it. we also need to have a response because we haven't had a comprehensive reform to our immigration system since the reagan era. again, there is a reason for that. i think is because there are some folks who want to use it as a potent political issue instead of fixing the problem. governor abbott has shown, time and time again, that is not just the laws, and the efforts that he's put in place, but he's trying to approach immigration from the standpoint

of how barbaric can we be? i think we can secure our border without violating our values. i think we do have the secure border, but we can do a consistent with who we are as americans, and show the world that the united states is walking the walk as well as talking the talk. >> picking up on barbara, governor abbott has been facing criticismfor busing migrants to other cities. -- by forcing democrats to face this issue, it has brought water attention to the, problem and as you know, the mayors of three major cities called in the white house to help them manage the influx of people arrive in. what is your take on that? >> yeah, well here's my take. number one, our border communities in texas and across the southern border have been overwhelmed for years now. they have not gotten the support they need. that is clear. we're talking about drawing on local resources, a local charity organizations, and

local churches, and these faith-based institutions that are having to do everything they can to try and support the surge of migrants. they do need more help. my issue isn't so much with busing folks who want to go to chicago, or who want to go to new york, to a place they want to go. my issue is one there misled-able why they're been sense somewhere, i've been there been sent somewhere that's clearly just for political, to make a political point, that is not, again, consistent with our values. that is not who we are. yes, we should be able to spread around the folks who are coming here in terms of while they're waiting for processing or something like, that they shouldn't just fall on the poor communities. let's do it, let's understand that it's not just about scoring political, points are getting on fox news, and having people celebrates how you've treated the people like pawns, that's not who we are. >> let's get to the texas senate, ring you were hoping to unseat incumbent ted cruz.

how important is support for and from president biden and top democrats to prevail in this red state? because with biden at the top of the tickets, his low polling numbers right now, how much are you concerned, relative to that, in your face? >> i'm not worried about this it, all it's about texas, this is about texas talking to texans, neighbors talking to neighbors, we have a problem, and that we have a senator and ted cruz who is not interested in doing the job. who is podcasting three times a week, wants to be a media personality, not a united states senator. the photo gets was the policies that are best for our state, who has been one of the most divisive an extreme senators in the country who does not care about us. i'm the opposite. i've been the most -- in my time in congress. i get things done. we're talking about a senator who will surpass the next presidential administration, by the way. this runs until 2030. we need to ensure that we put

in place the senator who will think of us first. that's what i plan on doing. >> he certainly has some vulnerabilities revealed in the last, week and it wasn't a runaway by any means. we will see. best of luck to you. we'll see you again, happy new year. coming up next, colorado secretary of state, janet griswold, and the threat she's gotten over the donald trump fight. plus, her take on the new development on trump's immunity claim. 's immunit claim. for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go.

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supreme court to act quickly and definitively following a second state decision this week disqualifying donald trump from its primary ballot in the 14th amendment. a ruling from the high court potentially determinate, for all states, whether trump is eligible to run and avoid throwing ballots in the chaos. joining me, now colorado secretary of state, janet griswold, great to have you back on the, show particularly the timing of all this. welcome. before i get jenna to the battle over trump on the ballot, i'm curious what you think about the chances that the appeals court upholds donald trump's immunity claim after the special counsel urged them -- if trump's immunity request goes to the supreme court, what would be the implication for his other cases? >> well, first, of thank you for having, me alex, it's always great to chat with you. what i can say is that we cannot allow donald trump to be above the law. that is exactly what he is trying to do. he is trying to be able to have

judicial recognition that he can break whatever law he wants. i think we already know how dangerous he is to the country, he does not need a court to tell him he's allowed to break the law, that is already how he operates in the world. he needs to have guardrails around his actions. he has been a danger to this country since he was initially running for presidents, and when he was president he continues to be a drastic threat to our democracy, and the stability of this nation. >> it's so extraordinary, i think about the argument that's been made by his attorneys, that the president is not under the constitution, but it talks about who would be held liable. oh, yeah i can picture all those guys writing the constitution back in the day thinking this applies to everybody on the country except the presidents. i, mean it's just, really is a lack of common sense almost in the reality of what took place,

but, that's not a legal argument. let me ask you about what's happening to the main secretary of state, shannon fellas. who you know was the target of a call on friday. in addition to receiving death threats -- in colorado. this disqualifies trump in the primary ballot. you've also received dozens of threats from the colorado supreme court. let's play some of what bellows have to say about the son msnbc yesterday. >> swatting the home of an elected official who is doing their job is unacceptable. what's my staff, my team have experienced, what they experienced all day yesterday, as a constant onslaught of threatening communications, that has to stop. >> i'm curious about your reaction of what's happening to your counterpart in maine, and i'd like to hear what you and your family experience. >> it's really unfortunate that

gianna's going through the fraud, swatting, and it has a real effect on an entire family. but i will share with you, alex, these threats have been going on since 2020. they've been targeted against me, they've been target against other secretaries of state, and also election workers. and the threats are part of the tool box to try to intimidate us out of doing our jobs. i think it's noteworthy that election workers are mostly women. it's predominantly women. these threats are targeting, in a gendered way, women. trying to get us to step down so extremist can step in. i know secretary bellows is strong, i'm sure she has right there with me and saying that we will not be intimidated by donald, trump or any of his goons running across this country. it just underlines the length that donald trump will go

through, his rhetoric. he eyeglasses not tweeting, out he's true thing, out or whatever their right-wing social media company is, but he coasted secretary bellows web page and bio. he knows what he's doing. it has been a danger, he incited the insurrection. he's upset at the workers. he will do everything he can to drop on to power. that is who we, as we should recognize that. >> your courage is admirable. i know a lot of people thank you for showing, that putting it on display. let's talk about the decisions in colorado and maine. they're putting norms pressure on the supreme court to act soon, an act of clarity. some experts are saying that the high court, barring the former president on the ballot would be so extraordinary, they may want to find a way to avoid having to rule that way. what are the possible decisions that the court could make, and what do you believe is most likely? would it mean if they decided narrowly, then kicked them back

to the states? >> it's the supreme court. they really can decide whatever they choose to decide. they could decide not to take the case, they could issue decisions very specific to the states in play. or they could make a much broader decision. all of this is because the colorado supreme court case has been appealed. it was appealed last week. the colorado supreme court determined that donald trump engaged in insurrection, and because of, that he is disqualified from the ballot under section three of the 14th amendment. on that provision, it's in the constitution, to try to stop people from destroying the country, from been an elected, officer 90 office. you, know i think the colorado supreme court is correct, but part of their decision was also that's if an appeal was filed, at least in colorado, trump is

back on the ballot until the court acts. i hope that the court acts with urgency, because i certify the ballots of the candidates on the ballots next friday, and presidential primary elections are right around the corner. >> let me ask you quickly about what's happening in your state regarding congressman -- who is hopping to a neighboring district, and running for reelection. she barely won last time. she has provoked must controversy in her current district and now has the voters in addition she does currently live. and what do you make of her decision, and is the new district likely to support this extreme maga combat of agenda? >> lauren boebert's decision seems to be just pure yourself survey in preservation of her political career. last election, she won narrowly. she has not delivered legislatively for the western

-- or spoken for the people in her district. she is created scandal after scandal, after scandal. her current district is a conservative leading district, but the new district, she has decided to run, and as even more conservative. so we'll see what happens in that primary, ultimately. my job is to ensure that there are great elections for democrats in the state of colorado. we'll see what the voters of this new district end up choosing and the statewide primary. >> we will, you will do what you are charged with. thank you so much. happy new year. coming up next, we have three important points coming up about the economy in the presidential, rates including one you have not considered for a while. fo a while. what else does it say? give the gift of family heritage with ancestry. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal.

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(dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. go back a year and a half in the price of gas was north of $5 a gallon. today? as i sit and talk with you on new year's eve day, there is no recession. unemployment has been below 4% for 22 months in a row. price of gas this morning was $3.11 on average across the nation, and below $3 a gallon in 28 states. >> that is former white house economic adviser, jared bernstein, highlighting how the economy has improved under the biden administration. as he mentioned, the national gas price average that said about $3.11 a gallon. that is a far cry from june 2022. prices climb to 502 a gallon.

joining me now, republican strategist, susan del percio, and former florida congressman, david jolly. both are msnbc political analyst and two thirds of my sunday family. we're missing don. we're going to miss him a happy new year today. let's talk about the stock market to the job numbers. this year has been an economic success for the white house, susan. why is that snot resonating with voters, because you think that these gas prices has been lower, but that was certainly resonate with voters. >> first, let me wish you, david on a very happy and healthy 2024. i hope that we make it through. it's going to be a challenging year. but when it comes to the economy, people are not feeling it. mostly because of interest rates been high, and i'm always a little doubtful that people using the price of gasoline this far out from an election because we know at least according to trends, it's going, the prices are going to start

to go up. with there been issues in the middle east, it's probably not the best strategy. most importantly, people don't feel it. it's still a number one issue when you call. that is the push and pull of the administration has. how do you say, look how successful our economy is, when people are saying, yeah, for who? >> yeah, point well taken. despite the president struggling numbers, pollsters, simon rosenberg, correctly predicted there would be no red wave during the 2022 midterms. and sending a clear message. that is, don't count biden out. take a listen to what he told me yesterday on the show. >> it is just clear as day, when you look at where the country is now that joe biden is a good president. the country is better off. the democratic party is winning elections all over the country. we enter 2024 in really good shape, but leaves me optimistic about what we can do next year.

>> i've got to tell, you he had even be feeling optimistic despite what we're talking about all the time. going into 2024,, david are president biden's chances much stronger than people realize? >> absolutely. without question. i think he could win reelection easily. depending on donald trump. we will talk about that. look, susan, it's exactly. right the economy is the wild card in this case. it comes downto soft confidence amongst consumers. i think instead of playing defense, the biden administration can play offense. it's morning in america again. tomorrow, more people will go to work than ever before. homeownership remains at an all-time high. the stock markets at an all-time high in people's retirement savings are at an all-time high. the wages around hourly workers is up over the last year. there is reason for joe biden to take that message to the american people. yes, confidence is, soft but when you look at where we've come from, we should remain confident about the future

under joe biden. ultimately, the contrast in november, do you want to democratic incumbent president who is working for an economy for all, health care, education, and, frankly, to protect your voting rights and democracy? or do you want a president who has said that he wants to get elected to seek political retribution of his enemies? possibly someone who's been convicted of a crime by november. the contrast is clear. i think joe biden can win reelection, no problem. >> do you think, susan, republicans are underestimated how much support this president has? could that be a downfall for them in this upcoming election? >> i think republicans are very concerned when it comes to, you know, former president donald trump actually winning. he, it's not just him winning, by the way, we can get into this a little later, it's also about the house in the senate. donald trump is a danger, definitely, to the country. i think people will wake up and see. the issue for donald, excuse, me for joe biden's, he's got to

get out there with a message for the future. look at what david said is apart a, and then part b is, yes, we have lower unemployment but i want to do more for this economy, by doing x, y, z. i want to get rid of school -- whatever it, as he has to offer something for the future. until he does, that he will never be able to rally those people who are, frankly, disappointed in him. >> they're not voting for, trump i should. highlight >> i want to get to what david was pointing out because new, today three women who served in the trump white house are speaking out against the dangers of another trump administration. let's take a listen to this. >> fundamentally, a second trump term could mean the end of american democracy as we know it. i don't say that lightly. >> his rhetoric has just gotten increasingly erratic. i, mean he is literally calling for things like doing away with parts of the constitution. wanting to weaponize the doj to enact revenge and his political enemies. >> the fact that he feels he needs to lean into being a

dictator, alone, shows he is a weak and feeble man who was no sense of character, integrity, and no sense of leadership. >> i want to get both of your reactions to the, starting with you, susan. >> first of all, that interview was amazing, and those women were brave throughout their actions since leaving the white house. there are absolutely right. donald trump is a threat to our country. it is very existence. just because joe biden's campaign team isn't highlighting that every minute of every day, it doesn't mean that won't be a central message come september. >> final word to you on, this, david what those three women, those insiders are saying is that going to resonate? >> yeah, persuadable's and swing voters agree with them. we expected the democratic wave in 18 but we didn't expect the performance in 20 and 22 of those typically soft republican performing voters. soft republicans and independents chose joe biden because there is too much trump.

he'll show up again in 24. >> okay, listen, thanks so much. happy new year. i adore you both look forward to seeing a lot more from both of you in the new year. that's going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i'll see you at one pm tuesday, next saturday at noon eastern. see some promo us up next with more coverage. first, we want to say a special thank you to everyone who helped make this and other shows an msnbc happened. have a safe and happy new year. and happy new year

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