that active in new hampshire, he's not advertising in new hampshire, he's likely to finish even behind chris christie in new hampshire, a third place finish could be a disaster for him. if nikki haley gets into second, she might build moment up in the eight days between iowa and new hampshire where she's stronger when you look at the polls. those three candidates have things you need to achieve and that's how i handicap it. >> we appreciate the insight and i'm certain we will be speaking to you again soon, politico's steve shepherd. thanks to him and all of you for getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 3rd, we have so much to get to this morning including a key senior hamas leader killed in an attack in beirut. we'll go live to israel for what this now means for the country's

war against hamas as fears of a potential escalation in the region intensifies. plus, russia pounds ukraine's two biggest cities in a new wave of attacks. the assaults are likely to strain nuclear's defenses as the country continues to plead for more military assistance from the u.s. and donald trump is appealing the landmark ruling from maine that disqualified him from the state's primary ballot. later in the program, we'll be joined by maine's secretary of state to talk about her decision there and charlie sykes with his new piece that asks, is disqualifying trump anti-democratic? we'll get the answer along with willie and me, we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent to bbc news, katty kay, and founder of the conservative website, the bulwark, charlie sykes is with us. willie, we are going to start

with some political snapshots of where the race stands, and then we'll get to all the big major news breaking overnight. >> we have a lot to get to this morning. a fascinating new poll showing how loyal republicans remain as we approach iowa. nearly three years after the january 6 insurrection, new polling suggest the capitol attack may still be a liability in the next election but not with his base or in this primary. in the latest "washington post" university of maryland survey, 50% of adults say the protesters who storm the capitol were mostly violent while the overall number is down from a december 2021 poll largely because fewer republicans now believe that to be true. when asked if trump bears responsibility for the attack, 14% say yes -- excuse me, of republicans -- only 14% of republicans. that's down 13 points. still 56% of independents say

trump is to blame for the events of january 6. though trump appears to have had some success, 62% overall and 66% of independents still say joe biden was legitimately elected in 2020. a sprawling "washington post" poll here that kind of tells us what we know to be true. among the base, among republicans, the rewriting of the history of january 6th, whose third anniversary is coming up, has taken hold and become truth to a lot of, i guess, trump republicans, if you want to call them that. if he gets to a general election, this question of democracy in january 6th will be a liability to him. >> i will be.

>> republicans are loyal to donald trump, this is donald trump's party. what is really striking that poll shows his ability to rewrite history, as you mentioned. this is a post reality. we saw january 6th with our own eyes. we watched it. people like mitch mcconnell, even kevin mccarthy, said, yes, donald trump was responsible, the evidence is voluminous. tens of millions of people will deny the evidence of their own eyes, will ten the testimony of people and will ignore members, leaders of their own party. this is the post reality reality that we live in and donald trump has proven a rather successful in pushing this revisionist

story. 2024 will be whether or not people can push back. people are out there as vigorously as possible. this will be relitigated again, i hope. we see the level. >> the big lie and everything that happened around the 2020 election and what you see is sympathy among trump supporters for the people in jail right now. he's recast them as hostages, the j-6 hostages, the j-6 choirs, turning them into martyrs. it may be good for him in iowa. if you look at the "washington post" poll, it fits with what we've seen previously that

independents believe he bears some responsibility for what they see as a terrible day in american history. >> the big lie has become doctrine and those poll numbers reflect it. that they down played the violence we saw on january 6, 2021, saying it was normal, peaceful protests. it's not hurting the republican party. this poll is eliminating it may hurt him with independents. he has a base problem. they need to re-energize young voters, progressives, voters of color. they feel good about where they are among independents. independents, particularly next year when presented with that binary choice, trump/biden, they won't be able to break for trump

again. january 6th is part of that. it is really leaning into that. in fact, brand-new this morning, he will be giving a speech this saturday, president biden, in philadelphia, outside philadelphia, at valley forge, a place of historic significance, a place so fundamental to this country's founding and he will speak on the january 6th anniversary there and warn about the ongoing threats to democracy. the latest in a series of speeches he has done there. and then on monday, he'll head to south carolina in charleston, the site of the racist mass shooting some years ago, and he will again say the extreme forces that have been unleashed by the far right fueled that shooting, too, and that is what is at stake in this year's election. >> so the truth is at stake and there are a lot of americans who aren't seeing the truth clearly and we can talk about all the reasons for that, katty kay. i don't know if we have video of

january 6th, and i hate to turn up the shock opera, but it is, once again, shocking, that you have to do a poll like this. asking whether or not trump won the election or lost the election fairly. and that 50% of adults, republicans, say the protesters who stormed the capitol were, quote, mostly violent. these are people who defecated in the halls of the capitol, who broke windows. we see them with their eyes. there are people dead, people who had heart attacks in light of this. there are people, capitol police officers, who went through multiple surgeries and are still dealing with the injuries they sustained that day from being beaten almost to death with american flags, and we're asking this question of our republican party? katty? >> i think what surprises me most, mika, about those numbers is actually the independents and how low that figure is for those

who believe that donald trump was responsible for january 6th or bears responsibility for january 6th. if i were advising the biden campaign, i know what you mean by shock opera and drama, but i would play these pictures again and again and again over the course of this anniversary. it's a question of reminding people of what they saw on that day. the further away, they think of inflation and the prices of gas or the war in ukraine or the war in gaza, the more they forget about this. when you see the images, they are so powerful and such a powerful reminder of what the country went through. those were the images that led senior republicans like mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy to say -- and lindsey graham -- to say i'm done with donald trump. play these images again if you're on the biden camp. it can't hurt he's giving a

speech on the anniversary. >> donald trump just actually goes there instead of cowers from things. so you have him talking about the people who were put in jail for the crimes they committed on january 6th as hostages and he has appealed the decision made by maine's secretary of state to remove him from the primary ballot there. in maine election challenges are first ruled upon by the state's top election official. secretary of state shenna bellows ruled trump was ineligible to appear on the state's primary ballot based on the 14th amendment, the same statute that colorado's supreme court used. it will be heard by the state's superior court. a new filing from the trump legal team accuses bellows of

prejudice. a biased decision maker who should have recused herself, failed to provide lawful due process. the secretary of state responded in a statement writing, i have confidence in my decision and in the rule of law. everyone who serves in government has a duty and obligation to uphold the constitution first, above all. the court has until sunday to decide whether to overturn bellows' ruling. that decision can be appealed all the way up to the u.s. supreme court. 9 we do have timing issues with that as well. we'll speak with secretary of state bellows when she joins us later today on "morning joe." what's so interesting, willie, again this is the question about january 6th, was it violent? was it an insurrection? of course it was an insurrection. we can go through all the details as to what was happening there, who was injured, who died, what weapons were used, who was in jail for now years of their lives for participating in

it. it is looking at whether trump engaged in insurrection. they're not asking if he started it if he ended it. just was he a part of it. that then brings us to eligibility, people are not eligible to be on a ballot. it's a simple question whether or not he is eligible. >> the argument from trump's camp and his supporters and some constitutional lawyers, he hasn't been convicted of insurrection to which the maine secretary of state and others said we've seen plenty of evidence from the january 6th committee -- >> just engaging. >> that he did, in fact, engage in it and the secretary of state, we'll talk to her in a couple of hours. charlie sykes, you have a new piece, is disqualifying trump anti-democratic.

by that, is a lone secretary of state stepping forward and saying this candidate cannot be on the ballot, is that anti-democratic. where do you land on that question? >> i'm sympathetic to the question. i think there is a potential for a backlash, but the bumper sticker is that we are taking donald trump off the ballot and so i tried to address a very narrow question which is that we talk a lot about democracy, and justifiably so. this country is not tombly a democracy. it is a representative democracy. it is about the rule of law and the constitution means something. there is something the majority

does not do, the constitution lists many things that even a super majority can't do. they are prohibited by the constitution. if you're 32 years old. that is just constitutional but, and so those things are undemocratic but not necessarily anti-democratic. the liberal constitutionalism of our system says we are a nation of laws not of men. in some ways the trump folks are about to do this flip. they say, look, the people who claim to be defending democracy are undermining democracy. this is a plausible argument. we are a democracy but it's more -- we are something else as well. our founders created all of the

separations of power and the checks and balances to say, yes, we are a democracy but are a nation of laws. we're about to see donald trump wrap himself in the cloak of defender of the democracy. >> and that's why time is of the essence. former u.s. attorney and former msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg and dave aaronberg. chuck, i'll start with you. the lawyers have asked the superior court in maine to vacate, saying it's undemocratic, she doesn't have standing to do this on her own. how do you see this playing out? >> if you just want to focus on maine, willie, under maine law,

the superior court has to move quickly and to hear the case but, of course, if the united states supreme court comes along and stays all of the various state proceedings and you still have unresolved state proceedings in almost 20 different states, then maine will put its litigation on hold, and i hope and i expect we'll get a single ruling from the united states supreme court. we're talking colorado, maine and michigan have done, and they've done different things, if the united states supreme court steps in, which i think they ought to, one ruling that sets the standard across the country. whether you loathe mr. trump or love mr. trump, you have or might have proceedings in 60 states and that's really untenable. i expect maine will move because

the supreme court intends to take the case and to issue a single ruling. >> dave, whether it's the superior court or supreme court, backlash might need to be considered, some might say. is the supreme court justice or a superior court judge looking at backlash or are they supposed to? what's the job? if you discipline a child forgetting into a fight, do you go, hmm, maybe i won't discipline the child because other kids might get mad. is the job to worry about backlash, or is the job to decide whether or not president donald trump, former president trump, engaged in insurrection and, therefore, is not qualified to be on the ballot? >> good morning, mika. it's not supposed to be considered the political backlash. that's why you give federal judges and justices lifetime

appointments. they're not supposed to put their finger up to the wind and see which way it's going. they're not supposed to take into account the political consequences or the polls, and i know some are saying, as you discussed this is undemocratic to take the matter away from voters. i think it's undemocratic to allow people to run for office who aren't qualified to do so. if barack obama announced he was running for president this year, republicans would light their hair on fire, and they would have a point. the 22nd amendment to the constitution says you have a maximum of two terms. he does not qualify to run, even though the voters may want him. and trump, ironically, builds his political brand on saying that obama didn't qualify to run because he wasn't a natural born citizen. of course he was. but you can't say the natural born citizen clause applies but the insurrectionist clause does not. they are all qualifications to run for president and you can't ignore one of them because you're worried about angering maga voters. mika, the alligator is always

hungry and you're never going to satisfy these folks who stop trying to apiece them. >> these cases are about a former president's potential role in an insurrection. january 6th is a short hand for the federal election interference case. so can you give us an update where you see in that trial and when you think it might happen? i know so many political observers have thought this would be the one case built for speed, what would conclude with a verdict before voters go to the polls next november. do you think that's still likely? >> i think it's a good way to describe it, jonathan. i, too, thought it was the case built for speed. only four charges were leveled against mr. trump. the trial date was, still is, by

the way, march 4th. i don't know that date is doomed. it's certainly endangered and endangered for a couple of reasons. one, trial dates slide as both parties get involved with discovery and various motions are heard and decided by the judge. more to the point, jonathan, this trial has an issue before the supreme court -- i'm sorry. let me be clear. it may also go to the supreme court which is whether or not a president is immune from criminal prosecution for official acts taken while president. the answer has to be that in this case factually and legally mr. trump was not acting in his official capacity, and, therefore, is not immune. i think that's the right conclusion. the problem is that so far we

don't have that determines by an appellate court or supreme court. do we get this done enabling the trial to go forward. i think it's certainly in danger. >> dave, charlie has been talking about the january the 6th case and the chances for that coming to trial and being resolved. can you give us some kind of crystal ball gaze forward where we're going to be on all of these legal cases november 5th, election day of 2024? do you think any of them will have -- will any of them have started, concluded, resulted in any kind of sentencing? what sort of stage do you think any of them will be at? >> katty, i think two of the criminal cases could go before the election. the stormy daniels' hush money

payments could go. the stronger case, the one that donald trump is most scared of is, indeed, the case in washington, d.c. over election interference. jack smith excluded any other co-defendants, only put forth four counts to the grand jury. the judge is the right judge for that trial. the only question i have is how long will it take the supreme court to rule on immunity? it will not be anywhere close, it will be a clear cut ruling and the u.s. supreme court is going to defer, is going to deny even hearing this matter and defer to the lower court and then it's game on. i think that's the case that helps the greatest threat. he knows it. >> wow. okay.

stormy daniels, civil fraud trial, jack smith, the documents -- george, the list goes on. i have never seen somebody handling more on legal fronts than donald trump. the state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg, former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, thank you both. it would take us, charlie sykes, probably the whole show to go through each case. the bulwark's charlie sykes, thank you for coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," hamas blames israel for the death of one of its senior leaders after an explosion in beirut. we'll get a live report from the region. and later, we'll talk to homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas about the situation at the u.s. southern border. you're watching "morning joe." plus, special financing. shop for a limited time, only at sleep number.

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who was killed in an explosion in lebanon yesterday. the drone strike happened in a densely populated strong hold of hezbollah. the man who was killed was the second in command of hamas' political office. hamas claims six other leaders were also killed in the strike. israel has not claimed responsibility for the attac but says it is in a state of, quote, high readiness for any scenario as the leader of hezbollah is vowing to strike back. meanwhile, one israeli and two u.s. officials tell axios that israel was behind the strike. nbc news has not verified this report. israel and hezbollah have been exchanging fire almost daily since the war in gaza began. experts say yesterday's drone strike will likely be perceived as a warning to iran and any retaliation could lead to a broader conflict in the region which, of course, everyone is worried about, willie.

>> yesterday government officials were expected to discuss what gaza should look like once israel achieves its goal of eradicating hamas. but after hamas accused israel of killing a leader in beirut, an official tells nbc news the war cabinet agreed still to meet but not discuss post war plans. joining us now, nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. what more can you tell us about the way israel is thinking about life perhaps after hamas if they achieve that goal? >> reporter: well, i can tell you now what is happening in the west bank with the palestinians and that is a day of rage. convening here in the central square, and this is one that could really spill over because, as you mentioned, this rage we're seeing here, and the protesters have been walking around the city, why you're not seeing it behind me, could spill

over into the wider region and really engulf quite a few other countries including, as you mentioned, lebanon, dominated by hezbollah, which, like hamas, is backed by iran. also the houthis in yemen have been launching attacks against commercial shipping vessels in the red sea and now we're seeing u.s. naval assets being deployed into the red sea to deter the houthis and iran deploying their own warships a couple days ago. this looks like a major escalation. we could start to see into a hezbollah strong hold, south of beirut where i was a couple of weeks ago hezbollah could decide to weigh into the war. more than 100 hezbollah fighters have been killed since october 7. hezbollah could decide they're

going to weigh into the war in a full way, both sides have been stepping back from the brink playing by the rules of engagement in place since the war between hezbollah and israel in 2006. that could change at any time and, guys, we are expecting to hear a speech. this speech could set the tone for what hezbollah will be doing from here on out. the lebanese, and a lot of other groups throughout the entire middle east, said this attack, if it was indeed israel, and we have it on pretty good authority it sounds like it is and we're not expecting the israelis to fully acknowledge the responsibility even if they did launch the assassination, this could set the tone for whether or not they react because they believe this was a violation of

sovereignty. they neither confirmed nor denied israel's responsibility for the assassination. the fact is that he was very, very careful to say this was an attack not against hezbollah, not against lebanon but against hamas. and that's because, as we're seeing, israel really doesn't want to go to war with lebanon or with hezbollah and most of the signs show hezbollah doesn't want to go to war with israel either. guys? >> matt, that will be really interesting to watch. it doesn't look like the israeli army is in much condition to fight a war on two fronts. tell us about the latest thinking from the israeli government on the plans for a kind of post war gaza and this idea of separating the strip into bits run by different clans. does that sound like something that's at all viable? >> reporter: i neglected to answer willie's first question. this is something that's an interesting suggestion. the fact is, though, this has been tried, tested and failed in

the past. the israelis have tried to find sort of proxy groups, families, clans, as this plan seems to mention, and this is all the reporting from my colleague josh lederman who gathered this yesterday. this idea of putting clans in charge of various divisions of the gaza strip instead of hamas, which israel intends to destroy, and instead of the palestinian authority which now governs the west bank where i am now. that is another alternative but, again, one that has been done before and didn't really work out because a lot of those clans in the past that were used to govern this part of the west bank, and this was decades ago, they were seen as collaborators, how the palestinian authority, a government here, they have been seen as collaborators as well. that makes them inherently unpopular especially as the opinion among the palestinians swings well against any compromise with the israelis and hamas has become increasingly

popular particularly outside of gaza where it has had dominion over the past 16 years. so whether or not this actually works, it just goes to show the fact that the israelis are looking at a tried, tested and failed solution to this problem just goes to show how desperate they are to find any kind of solution to what's going to be happening in the gaza strip after they're done there. that has been the big missing question so far, who will govern the gaza strip if and when they complete the goal of dismantling hamas? it's a big question and one the americans have been continually putting to the israelis. right now the israelis are so filled with rage and a desire to dismantle hamas, that this question seems like almost a side question, and we've already heard from the government of israel that this fight in the gaza strip could go on until the end of 2024, the end of this new year. so, for many who governs the gaza strip is almost secondary to just the immediate goal of

getting rid of hamas. >> nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley, thank you very much for your reporting and analysis this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead on "morning joe," we'll go live to cambridge, massachusetts, where the president of harvard has resigned amid criticism of her testimony on anti-semitism on campus as well as growing accusations of plagiarism in her academic work. plus, republican presidential candidate chris christie won't be on the next primary debate stage. he will join us live with what that means for his campaign. "morning joe" is coming right back. ght back

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davis, time winding down. they're going to get the ball up in time. clark for the win! >> she does it again, just a casual stepback logo game-winning three from the great caitlin clark, the iowa superstar, hitting that impossible shot, not for her but for the rest of us, at the buzzer, giving her 40 points for the game. iowa women's basketball team wins 76-73 over michigan state. the hawkeyes extend their winning streak to 11 games. she is one of the most exciting athletes in all of sports, men or women. meanwhile in louisiana, wow, grambling state got off to a historic start to the new year beating the college of biblical studies 159-18.

141-point win marks the largest margin in division i women's basketball history. it might be a down year for the college of pibblycal studies. maybe take the foot off the gas after you go up by 100. the most watched non-nfl sporting event since 2018, a great game, made since according to espn. 27 million viewers tuned in for michigan's overtime win against alabama on monday, which hit a peak audience of nearly 33 million, the most watched cfp semifinal game since alabama's lost in the sugar bowl after the 2014 season. in the nfl during a radio interview yesterday new england patriots legendary head coach, bill belichick, addressed questions about his future in football amid reports he will part ways with the franchise at the end of the season. >> whatever successive had, i tried to go about my job the

same way win, lose, good years, be bad years, whatever they are. just each week get ready for that week, do the best to help your team win. after that game, move on to the next one. and at the end of the season, that's the end of the season. on a week-to-week basis, i don't want to spend time or get caught up in, you know, what happened five years ago or what's going to happen two years from now or, you know, a bunch of other random stuff. just working on the jets. i'm committed to the team that i'm coaching right now, the players here. they deserve my best every day, and that's what i'm going to give them. you know if i was going to do anything i would put it out on twitter so everybody could see it. >> my face. with one week remaining in the regular season, the 4-12 patriots will miss the playoffs for just the sixth time in belichick's 26 seasons. mike barnicle joins us. so what's the word up in boston about belichick? is he going to go after this season? does he hang around? does he give up the gm title?

there are a few different ways this could go. >> nobody really knows, i think, other than robert kraft and jonathan kraft, who run the patriots, and perhaps bill belichick. one thing is for sure. the players have not quit on him. they played a pretty good game last week. they won. they've had a terrible year. i think what might happen is at the conclusion of the year the krafts sit down with the coach and tell him, if you'd like to stay, we'll surround you with our general manager, our director of player personnel, a whole new drafting group that you are not going to control, and if you want to stay under those auspices, you're welcome to stay. and he would leave. i think that's what might happen. >> he certainly is in the right to go however he wants to. it's hard to imagine the patriots without bill belichick. are texas can born abortions despite federal guidance.

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welcome back. a federal appeals court ruled yesterday that texas can ban emergency abortions even though the biden administration says a federal statute takes priority over state laws prohibiting the procedure. the unanimous decision by the fifth circuit court of appeals stated the government can not enforce the emergency medical treatment and active labor act,

a federal law governing emergency rooms that would require e.r. doctors to perform abortions if necessary to stabilize e.r. patients to save lives. the biden administration originally issued the federal guidance after the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v. wade in june of 2022. texas, along with some anti-abortion organizations, then sued the government accusing the administration of overstepping its authority. the court's decision comes a month after the texas state supreme court ruled against a woman seeking an emergency abortion of her nonviable pregnancy. that court is currently considering a separate lawsuit by 22 women regarding the scope of the emergency medical exception to texas' abortion ban. katty kay, your thoughts? i think this is going to be a major player in the presidential election in terms of americans' attitudes towards abortion being

health care rather than some hot button issue that they're on one side of or the other. >> yeah, my first is the woman in texas who had to end up leaving the state in order to get the abortion she needed to protect their health. they're not going to be able to get the health care they need. while republicans initially told us when ro e was overturned there would be exceptions and doctors would be able to perform abortions, there was no problem with the law, it actually turns out in the state of texas at the don't want women to get even emergency texas, who might need that kind of health care. they're just going to -- if they can afford it, they're going to have to leave the state in order to get it. politically, it is this kind of ruling that keeps abortion alive as a political issue, and has democrats right now as we begin at the beginning of the year, this is the kind of ruling that is going to win us back the house. and they are pretty confident

that they can still mobilize and referendum after referendum in conservative state after conservative state seems to suggest that both democrats and republican, both women and men will turn out in their states in order to try to protect abortion rights. when portion is on the ballot, it is a motivator for the democrats. >> absolutely. katty, thank you. a look now at some of the other stories on front pages across the country. the dallas morning news reports on the justice department's request for an emergency supreme court ruling to allow federal agents to cut razor wire installed by texas along the u.s./mexico border. the department says the wire makes it difficult for border patrol agents to reach and apprehend migrants. governor greg abbott responded to the request on "x," quote, see you in court. in pennsylvania, the "standard speaker" leads with a local water utility that was one of many in the u.s. recently

targeted by iranian-backed hackers. according to the fbi, the organizations were targeted because they contain specific israeli-made industrial control devices. u.s. security officials say the attack shows how urgently necessary it is to fortify cybersecurity in local municipalities. the arkansas democrat gazette is highlighting a new study that shows a growing number of women are ordering abortion pills, especially in states where abortion access is threatened. nationally, the study found the average number of daily requests for the bill surged almost ten-fold from about 25 to 247 following the draft leak of the supreme court dobbs decision. rates of requests were highest in states where abortion bans were expected and even higher in states that already had bans. so you can see the result of the overturning of roe. and in california, the los

angeles times reports that there are at least two mickey mouse-inspired horror movies in the works, after the "steamboat willie" version of the beloved character entered the public domain. disney's copy right of the short film officially expired on monday. the company still holds the copy right s on the character's other depictions. okay. and still ahead on "morning joe," many voters in counties that have played a crucial role in the past four presidential elections say that they don't like what they see this year. we'll dig into the new reporting from "the wall street journal." plus, former ukrainian president petro poroshenko will be our guest this morning, as russia hammers ukraine's two largest cities with massive missile strikes. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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continue this morning in western japan after a magnitude 7.6 earthquake rattled the region on new year's day, leaving at least 62 people dead. tsunami warnings have been canceled, but aftershocks continue to shake japan. many feared still to be trapped under the rubble. the prime minister says teams are working to clear roads blocked by landslides or damaged buildings and warning residents to prepare for further aftershocks, landslides, and even new tsunami warnings. also in japan, an investigation is underway now to determine who is responsible for the two planes that crashed on a runway in tokyo killing five people. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: fire and terror on the runway in tokyo, as a fully loaded plane arriving crashed into a smaller japanese coast guard plane. the massive fireball rolling down the runway. inside the jal plane, terrified

passengers saw flames outside their windows, smoke rolling through the cabin. swedish tourist anton devo was onboard with his family. >> i looked to the left and saw flames all over the windows, and the plane starts to shake, and all the lights turn dark and everyone starts screaming in japanese. >> reporter: once stopped, passengers evacuated down two emergency chutes. as airport firefighters attacked the flames, the plane's tail collapsed to the ground, exactly the kind of worst-case runway incursion the ntsb has warned about in the u.s. after so many close calls in 2023. the crash happened on runway 34-right, precisely where the jal airbus a-350 had been cleared to land. the question for japanese investigators, why was that smaller coast guard plane on the same runway, possibly preparing for takeoff. of the six coast guard crew members on an earthquake relief mission, only the captain survived, now in critical condition. but all 379 people onboard the

passenger plane survived, including eight infants. precisely what flight crews in the u.s. and abroad train for. regardless of the size of the aircraft, the faa requires that within 15 seconds of the aircraft stopping for an accident, it must be able to start evacuating everybody out through the window, through the doors, in just 90 seconds. that faa rule is the global standard. >> get out! get out! leave everything! >> critical to surviving, leaving everything behind and getting out! when an american airlines flight caught fire in chicago in 2016, some passengers still grabbed their carry-ons. >> when passengers do not follow the instructions and do not leave their belongings in the airplane, they're not only putting themselves at risk, they're putting others at risk, because they're blocking exits. >> reporter: in tokyo, tragedy, but survival on the runway. >> that was nbc's tom costello reporting. it is the top of our second hour now. ahead, this hour, house

republicans are beginning 2024 with a focus on the southern border. hours from now, speaker mike johnson and 60 republicans will head to eagle pass, texas, as senate negotiations resume. in a few moments, homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas will join us on where those talks now actually stand. also ahead, it's desantis versus hailey, in the republican debate, days before the iowa caucus, donald trump is on thing to skip the debate again, but he is hosting a town hall. we'll talk about that. republican presidential candidate kris christie will join the conversation live in studio after he failed to make the cut. but we begin this morning with new swing state reporting that's painting a picture of where the 2024 race stands right now. "the wall street journal" spoke with voters in three counties that have backed the presidential winner in each of

the four past elections. in pennsylvania's north hampton voted for joe biden in 2020ho tells "the journal" he feels like the president hasn't done heays he would consider voting for a moderate republican in 2024, butf it's between biden and trump, he would likely vote for biden again, because trump's quote, atarian tendencies worry him. another pennsylvania voter, a 61 republican said although he would prefer a alternative to trump, he would vote the former president again, because, quote, if it wasn't for the pandemic, he would have easily been re-elected. ininawcounty, michigan, ich biden won by just over 300 votes in 2020, a democrat says he's worried that a lot of people won't vote at all if 2024 is a biden/trum rematch. and in n hampshire's hillsborough co a

70-year-old trump 2020 voter says that s write in a candidate rather the for the former president again, because although she quote agrees with a lot of his policies, it's just too much. jonathan lemire and mike barnacle are still with us and joining the discussion is member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay. good to have you all with us. i guess we'll start with you. we're looking at polls that show republicans are still clinging to trump and now chris christie is out. and when you look at the feelings of these voters, it feels like anything goes right now in this presidential election, at a time when, and i guess this would be most democrats, but those who believe in the constitution and in american values, you would think it would be a little bit more stark. >> you would think the choice wouldn't be that difficult in this moment, but that piece is a reminder that elections are decided at the end of the day by a handful of states.

and that there are actually independent voters, there are voters who are still on the fence, who can still be persuade ed and i think it's easy to forget that in this current moment. they are so polarized, you think they're either in one camp or the other. but there are still some persuadable voters out there. the other alchemy of this election is the other part of the coalition, which is whether biden can actually turn out the base. and so that's just as important as a story. it's not waiting for joe the plumber to decide who he or she might want to vote for at the last minute, those kind of voters that go back and forth. it's also about turning out the base. and biden has a lot of work to do there, as well. but this is about enthusiasm, as much as persuasion. >> yeah. and when you look at that, attitudes towards joe biden, it's the same for the republicans. lgs lgs, when i said chris

christie is out, i meant out as in not on the debate stage. and the reasons he's not going to be allowed to be on the debate stage plays into this conversation. he's been the one presidential candidate who has really gone after trump for his lack of respect for the constitution. for his corruption, for the charges against him. many crimes he admits to like stealing documents. and it hasn't worked. >> yeah, he's not going to be on the debate stage, because he didn't meet the polling standards, as vivek ramaswamy is in the same camp. you'll have a one-on-one with nikki haley and ron desantis, which could be interesting. but i want to go back to your point about joe biden and the base. we ran through some "usa today" polling yesterday that was kind of stunning. a complete flip almost, for now, it's very early, among latino voters. the support eroding among black voters, young voters aren't so sure. and a lot of it is a wandering eye. it's not that they're in love

with donald trump. they say, i don't love my choices here. joe biden hasn't delivered for me in the way i expected, so i'm open to anything right now. is it your expectation that they will come hope to joe biden? the coalition that has supported democrats for generations and certainly joe biden in 2020, that they will at the end of the day look at a binary choice and say, i can't stomach trump, i'll vote for joe biden. >> it is donald trump, that will help the base come home. i do think that we're talking about many zbreet groups of voters here in different states, of course, and hispanic voters in nevada are not the same as hispanic voters in virginia or arizona. same with black voters. i actually spent several days in georgia just a few weeks ago talking to black voters, black democrats in the base there, especially in the rural coalition, which was essential to biden winning the state in 2020, because that's actually where they were able to drive the turnout, or excuse me, to drive the margins of victory

down among -- in republican areas. and the enthusiasm for joe biden just isn't there. that doesn't mean -- first of all, people are not voting for donald trump. secondly, i think when trump is more visible as that candidate, these voters may very well find themselves compelled to go to the polls. what i kept hearing was, i haven't heard enough about how hard my life is and what the president is going to do about it. there are a lot of victory laps being taken. if you're a voter who's in student loan debt, who's paying more than ever for groceries, but also actually in rent, you're in tough shape. and not seeing that struggle or hearing about it on the campaign trail from joe biden, is a concern. so i think that the president has more work to do with the base, and he's got to give people something to be excited about, not just a bogeyman to

run against. >> and it looks, mike, like the president and his campaign are going to do both. as jonathan lemire pointed out, he'll be in valley forge this saturday to mark the third anniversary of january 6th, talking about the dangers of donald trump, the dangers of authoritarianism and going back to that. but the campaign and the white house talks about the economy. as mara said, historic unemployment, all the numbers that steve rattner showed us in his charts for a year frankly surprised and the dow over 37,000. the economy is very strong. gas prices are down, inflation is ticking down. it appears the biden campaign will make a dual argument. we've done all of this stuff. things have gotten better since covid under our watch, and you don't want to go back to that guy. >> can you imagine being president of the united states with everything that's on your plate that you have to address, each and every day, to satisfy each and every voter. it's an impossible task the

border is a huge issue that has to be confronted. we'll be talking with mr. mayorkas in a couple of moments about the border. but life itself in general. look, the world is at war right now. the world is at war. and the president of the united states is charged with the idea of lowering the flames of that war. it might be impossible to do. as mara just pointed out, the economy, while flourishing in a large sense is not flourishing for a lot of people. largely centered around one word, groceries. gas is coming down, everything like that. you go in the grocery store, it's shocking the prices. shocking. you get all of that, plus your grandchildren or your children. and you look at them and you wonder, you wonder, what kind of a world are we going to be leaving them? because this year, we're in the third day of a new year, 2024, it's going to be a pivotal year

in terms of what america means and what it might mean a year from now depending on the outcome of the election. and jonathan, the president of the united states is going to be charged with giving a speech about this country, i think, on january 6th in valley forge, pennsylvania. his presidency, will, i think -- his re-election campaign will officially be reignited on that day in talking about all of the issues that we face as a country going forward, including the immediate future as well as the long-term future of a thing called democracy. >> let's remember that joe biden didn't plan to run for president in 2020. as he tells it, he saw the marchers in charlottesville, those racist marchers. that's a theme he's returned to time and again while in office,

particularly after january 6th, where he delivered a series of major speeches at the u.s. capitol. he did so in arizona at the mccain institute, at independence hall in pennsylvania. and a few days later, he'll head to south carolina, now the first state in the democratic calendar. he'll be there on monday, the site of that racist shooting massacre of some years ago and he'll tie these things together and say, they're all born of the same extremism, the same hate that has been unleashed by his predecessor. and he'll tell me, this is what this next election is going to be about. it of course will be about the economy. it's going to be about inflation. it is going to be about crime and the border and two hot foreign wars. and it's certainly going to be

about abortion. the democrats will make that case time and again. but this idea that democracy itself is at stake, we'll hear about that from the president on saturday and many times in the months ahead. >> we'll have a former president of the united states running for re-election sitting in a courtroom, at least one, maybe more, while he's trying to win the white house. and also, on this question of abortion, we're already seeing it from the biden campaign, in his own words, donald trump taking full credit for getting rid of roe v. wade, something that could backfire as well. >> yeah, you know, it's a good point, willie, because you have to wonder if we see donald trump in a courtroom more often, if that will persuade some voters, even some in biden's base to say, i can't let this guy be president again. i think sthir, as that progresses, that may play a larger role than it has thus far in the election. it's stunning the number of charges against the former president, and going stroerts, talking to them and hearing from

republican voters, i don't care. that's a stunning thing. but again, when you consider what that means for the base for democrats and what that means for swing state voters, it may not play so well. so i think there's a lot of wild cards to come. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," senate lawmakers are back to work in washington on a new deal for immigration reform. we're going to have the latest on the negotiations as house speaker mike johnson leads a republican delegation to the southern border today. plus, homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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down following backlash over their responses to anti-semitism on campus. but gay also faced accusations of plagiarism. nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin reports from outside harvard and cambridge, massachusetts. >> harvard president claudine gay announced she's resigning. gay's departure comes just six months after a turbulent tenure at the university. writing to the community, this is not a decision i came to easily. >> i am claudine gay, the president of harvard university. >> gay says her decision comes after discussions with harvard's top governing body, about unrelenting scrutiny from critics, who say she mishandled anti-semitism on harvard's campus, as well as plagiarism allegations in her academic work, which she has denied. gay writing, it has been distressing to have doubt cast on my commitments to confronting hate and to upholding scholarly rigor, two bedrock values that are fundamental to who i am.

calls for gay's resignation growing after congressional hearing about anti-semitism and islamophobia on college campuses, alongside the presidents of the university of pennsylvania and m.i.t. last month. this exchange with elise stefanick going viral. >> dr. gay, at harvard, does calling for the genocide of jews violate harvard's rules of bullying and harassment? yes or no? >> it can be depending on the context. >> it does not depend on the context. the answer is "yes" and this is why you should resign. >> reporter: but growing pressure against the university started before that testimony. alumni pulling back donations over the school's response to the hamas terrorist attacks of october 7th. harvard's governing body accepting gay's resignation. writing in a statement, she acknowledged missteps and has shown remarkable resilience in the face of deeply personnel and sustained attacks, both on and off campus, tuesday's move splitting the harvard community. >> she lost the ability, at

least in the perception of many students and faculty and alumni, to lead the university. >> i think that there were attempts for her to force her to resign, for quite some time, starting with her congressional testimony. >> reporter: harvard's governing board says that the university's provost, alan garber, will serve as interim president as they work to find a new leader. meanwhile, gay is expected to stay on at the university as a faculty member. mika? >> wow. nbc's erin mclaughlin, thank you for that report. mara gay, just looking at what's been happening at campuses across the country, your take on this latest news? >> well, i think there's a lot going on here, and so we just want to be careful that we contextualize everything properly. the thing that really disturbed me was the unrelenting campaign

from the right and from some conservative activists to slander, discredit, and ultimately, i guess, somebody used the phrase, we've claimed a scalp on social media, to, essentially, unseat gay and other presidents, as well, when they don't like not just the handling of the horrific attacks on israel on october 7th, the way that that was handled on campus, but really anything else, that they don't like about not just the president, but what they would call wokism on campus. this is really an attack on academic freedom. it's an attack on people who are pluralists and bring that you should people from all over the world together of diverse

backgrounds and that you have more scholarly rigor and more value can be brought by having people from different backgrounds. this is an attack on diversity. this is an attack on multi-culturism. and on many of the values that a lot of us hold dear and in fact, anybody, really, who is around my age in their 30s, who went to any public, major public university or private university in this country, these are values that are very important. and i think that's why these presidents are under attack. that's why claudine dpae was under attack. the fact that she's a black woman and the first person who is a black american to lead harvard only added to their thirst to dethrone her. and this -- i don't have to say that they're racist, but you can hear and see the racism in the

attacks when people like vivek ramaswamy say, okay, this is a problem about diversity and hiring. this is racism as well. there are a lot of different layers here, but i don't want to miss the attacks on academic freedom. and i think it's much easier to target women or women of color, but ultimately, it's not going to stop there. and i really hope that we can stand up for academic freedom, you know, no matter who the target is of these campaigns. >> well, i respect and validate everything you're saying, at the same time, those were pretty simple questions that were being asked at the hearing, okay. that's number one. and in the case of claudine gay, the plagiarism aspect of this was an added problem. so a lot of things going on. very complex and ae conversation we should continue to have. willie? >> and a lot of people, it was

also about the protection of jewish students on campus, too. including everybody in that diversity. let's turn to the border. federal officials say they are reopening several ports of entry at the u.s./mexico border, setting a dip recently in illegal crossings. this comes as a group of republican lawmakers are set to visit eagle pass, texas, a border town where migrants have recently flooded into the united states in record numbers. morgan chesky has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, a humanitarian crisis in a political spotlight. a record influx of migrants at the southern border, prompting the republican delegation to see the situation here in eagle pass firsthand. >> there has to be meaningful border solutions. it can't be window dressings. >> homeland security officials telling nbc news, federal authorities encountered nearly 300,000 migrants last month alone. the immigration issue sure to be front-runner, as the 2024 primary season heats up, while

on capitol hill, a bipartisan group of senators has been working on border security legislation. >> -- the money i need to protect the border. >> reporter: the battle to contain the problem also playing out in courtrooms nationwide. the justice department threatening to sue texas over its new law, allowing state and local law enforcement to arrest and deport migrants suspected of entering the u.s. illegally. in a letter obtained by nbc news, the doj calling the law unconstitutional, arguing that it would disrupt the federal government's operations texas governor greg abbott has sent some 95,000 migrants on chartered buses and planes to cities nationwide, often without notice. mayor adams accusing abbott of going around a new executive order that limits when and where those buses can arrive. after the latest group of buses stopped just short of the city, in secaucus, new jersey.

>> reporter: we're dealing with a bully right now and everything is on the table that conforms with the law. >> denver's mayor now calling on the federal government to take action, saying thousands of migrants who have been sent from texas are now straining his city's resources. >> we have almost filled every single available hotel room in the city and county of denver. >> nbc's morgan chesky reporting there. joining us now, alejandro mayorkas. mr. secretary, thanks for being with us this morning. you rejoined those negotiations yesterday with a bipartisan group of senators, trying to find a solution to what's happening, which i think you would agree is a crisis at the border right now. senator murphy, democrat of county came out and said the negotiations were quote very difficult, not projecting a ton of confidence about the progress there. how would you characterize the conversations. where is someone that you could agree, all of you, on a bipartisan basis to fix this problem. >> so thanks so much for having

me this morning. the one thing in immigration that everybody agrees upon is the fact that we've, dealing with a broken immigration system for decades and what the bipartisan group of senators is now doing is attempting to finally fix a significant part of that broken immigration system and i have been privileged to provide technical advice to them. and i am actually optimistic. these are earnest, hard-working efforts to tackle a very complicated problem. we've been making progress each and every day. and despite how difficult it is, that progress job going and i'm hopeful an immigration fix will occur. and i should say in addition, our administration under president biden's leadership has fought for that long-needed fix since day one, when president biden on the very first day of his administration submitted a comprehensive immigration reform

bill to congress. most recently, we have sought much-needed funding for our efforts to address the situation at the border. more border patrol agents, more asylum officers, more immigration judges, more investment in technology to battle the scourge of fentanyl. we are focused on fixing the challenge, on fixing the problem. we are focused on solutions. >> as you know, mr. secretary, border patrol in the month of december processed more migrants entering the united states illegally than any month in the history of that agency. why is that happening? how do you explain it? >> so we are seeing the greatest number of displaced people, not only at our southern border, not only in the western hemisphere, but across the globe. i am involved in bilateral and multi-lateral meetings with my

counterparts from foreign countries in europe, in asia, in the indo-pacific, all over the world. and migration, the challenge of displaced people, is a subject that comes up in every single conversation. we have the effects of climate change, poverty, increasing level of authoritarianism. the very many challenges that are at the root cause of the displacement of people around the world. >> so mr. secretary, certainly a given that something needs to be done at the border, but in the interim, before something goes into effect, we are hearing from many big city mayors, governors, lots of democrats asking washington to do more. eric adams, the mayor of new york city, has repeatedly said that in recent days. so what more is washington going to do, if anything, to answer their calls for help?

>> so we have taken action on the border and taken action with respect to the challenges that cities across the country are facing. let me identify one fundamental problem here. and that is the fact that we have one governor in the state of texas who is refusing to cooperate with other governors and other local officials and coordinate efforts to address a challenge that our country, which this country should stand united to address, that our country is facing. and it's a remarkable failure of governance to refuse to cooperate with one's fellow local and state officials. but we have dispatched teams to chicago, denver, new york, to name just three, to assist them in managing the challenge, to assist them in ensuring that people who are eligible for work receive their work authorization as swiftly as possible, and

we're continuing to collaborate with them. we've also successfully sought some funding from congress to assist the cities, and in our supplemental budget request, we've requested additional funding for that purpose. and we do hope that congress passes that critically needed funding manager. >> mr. secretary, the thousands of human beings who arrive at the border of the united states, they don't get there by uber. they come through mexico, all of them. why can't mexico do more to be of assistance? >> so mexico is doing a great deal. we were there in mexico city, meeting with president lopez obrador last week, secretary blinken and i joined by the president's homeland security adviser, liz sherwood randall. they have a migration challenge themselves. as does colombia, as does

ecuador, as does costa rica, as does panama, as does guatemala. this is a regional problem that is challenging our entire hemisphere, and as i referenced earlier, so many countries around the world. but we spoke with mexico last week about what we think they can do to assist us in enforcing their borders, so that we do not see the level of migration, irregular migration, at our border. and in fact, we've started to see the results of their increased cooperation and our increased collaboration on the enforcement measures. >> mr. secretary, we learned just a couple of days ago that there is a backlog of some 3 million cases of asylum seekers who are allowed to come into the united states, remain in the united states while they wait for their trial, which in most cases, will be years from now. just not enough judges to process that. what do you about that, number one? and number two, is it a good idea to let the asylum seekers

be in the united states while they wait at truly, or should they remain where they are? >> so that backlog is a powerful example of how broken our immigration system is, and for how long it has been broken. because that backlog existed when i was in the department of homeland security in 2009. it preceded me then, and it precedes me now. that 3 million case backlog has been building for years and years and years. it got much, much worse when u.s. citizenship and immigration system -- services, the agency within the department of homeland security that administers our legal immigration system, was financially gutted during the prior administration, when it did not receive the funds that

congress statutorily called upon it to do. and what we have done, we have sought additional asylum officers. we're going to be right-sizing that immigration agency through our regulatory authorities, but fundamentally, fundamentally, congress must fix the broken immigration system, in that case, backlog is a powerful example of why that is so. >> i know you have to run, mr. secretary. quickly, before you do, we're getting news from punch bowel news, that the house homeland security committee is formerly moving ahead with impeachment proceedings against you with the first hearing to be held a week from today. what's your reaction? >> you know, you mentioned earlier, in our conversation, that i joined the bipartisan group of senators to work on a legislative solution to a broken immigration system. i was on the hill yesterday to provide technical advice in those ongoing negotiations. before i headed to the hill, i

was in the office working on solutions. after my visit to the hill, i was back in my office, working on solutions. that's what we do in the department of homeland security. that's what this administration is focused on. solutions to problems. >> but you will cooperate with the hearings, the investigation here? >> i most certainly will. and i'll continue to do my work, as well. >> homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas, thank you for your time this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you. >> so, mara, before we let you go as well, just, this immigration question, by all accounts, democrat now, it's a crisis at the border. what to do about it. assist thorny question, to say the least. >> the first question, you actually need a group of people that are committed to actually soling the problem, and there's no incentive, as we were talking about a moment ago to do that for republicans. because this is a great campaign

issue for them. unfortunately, that is just a cyclical problem. and we've got to come together as a nation and get this right. not only because every nation has the right to secure its borders, but also because we have a global refugee crisis that is driven from everything from climate change to again the rise of authoritarianism, and we in the united states have a lot of jobs that need to be filled. there are many places, many communities in the united states that actually need workers. so let's look for those opportunities, let's create a system that's humane, that's rationale, that makes for a stronger country. but it's really hard to do that when you don't actually have good faith negotiating partners. and unfortunately, i don't believe that the biden administration has that right now. and so, in the interim, you know, you've also got a situation in which cities like new york are dealing with what the southern border has dealt with for years, which is a kind of patch work system and everybody else is -- everybody is kind of suffering because of

it. so i think it's a problem that doesn't have any solution within easy site, certainly not before november. >> mara gay, member of the "new york times" editorial board and proud michigan alum -- >> go, blue. >> go blue. >> coming up next. republican presidential candidate chris christie joins the discussion live in our studio. did not make the cut for the next republican primary debate. we'll ask him what he plans to dostead. and much more "morning joe" is coming right back. d. and much more "morning joe" is coming right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 20 minutes before the top of the hour. another house republican is planning an early exit from congress. congressman bill johnson of ohio will resign from the house in a few weeks to start his new job as president of youngstown state university. with his departure, the house republican majority gets even

slimmer, as they try to passkey spending bills this year. johnson's resignation follows the departure of former house speaker, kevin mccarthy, and the expulsion of former congress manning, george santos, leaving the house with 219 republicans, 213 democrats, and three vacancies. this means republicans can only afford to lose two votes on any piece of legislation. the republican debate that's taking place just 12 days before the iowa caucuses feature only two candidates. cnn announced, florida governor ron desantis and former u.s. ambassador, nikki haley, and former president trump made the cut, but trump is going to skip the debate, of course, opting instead to participate in a town hall with fox news the same evening. willie? >> joining us in studio, former

new jersey governor, republican presidential candidate, chris christie. you missed the polling quota, so what are your plans for that night? >> to make the polling threshold was not something i could do in iowa. that's fine. nikki and ron can debate that night. i don't even know who's going to be watching nikki and ron in that debate, but i hope some people are, because i think that they'll get a real sense of the fact twhoot of them are living in an alternate universe. they'll debate each other, as if the contest is between the two of them and my guess is neither one of them will spend five minutes bringing up donald trump, because they're both playing for 2028, or a vice presidential nomination in nikki's case for donald trump. so i don't think it will be worth watching. >> you've heard all of this talk within the republican party that it needs to be a two-person

race. if you really want to take out donald trump, it's got to be one of you against donald trump, making the case against him. one of your old friends, governor chris sununu of new hampshire, a place where you have put a lot of your time and effort, has said effectively, you should get out of the race and make way for nikki haley, in his estimation. here's what the governor said. >> chris christie's a friend, but his race is at an absolute dead end. he's going to say anything he can. this is a who have person race between trump and nikki haley. i know he wants to stay in the race to speak the truth about trump, but that translating to votes is a very different thing. >> what do you say to your good friend, chris sununu? >> what's when you think someone is going to knife you in the back, he's my good friend. i remember when chris used to care about donald trump. he's the guy who came, i think to the gridiron club and said that trump belongs in a mental

institution. and now he's saying that he'd vote for him if he were the nominee, and he's now supporting a candidate who said he was the right president at the right time and that she would pardon him before any evidence was presented to a court or a jury. look, i believe that those folks are right, willie, what you mentioned in your question, someone's got to be one on one against trump, but they actually have to be against trump. the problem for nikki haley is, and it goes just to everything that she talks about. she doesn't want to offend anybody. so her own campaign has been about not offending anyone. i heard her on new hampshire raid yesterday morning when talking about the slavery civil war question she was asked. now her excuse is, i was tired is a little off my game. that means that she didn't have the script that her staff has put in front of her to actually be able to read it. we've had that before in the white house, we don't need it again, and the fact is, she should be willing to stand up and say, if you're opposed to

donald trump, you're opposed to donald trump. and for chris sununu to say, i'm obsessed with donald trump, when he came to a media event in washington, d.c. and called him effing crazy, right? i don't know. i've never said that. and i think that the problem is ever since chris has started to support nikki, you know, he's decided to adopt her "offend no one" position. so, look, he's all in. they got big endorsements last week. he convinced his father and his brother to endorse nikki haley. that must have been quite the arm wrestling match at the new year's eve party a at the sununu house. >> so, a couple of questions. first one that arises off of what you just said, governor sununu did, indeed say, that if it were biden versus trump in the fall, he would vote for donald trump. >> right. >> if it's biden versus trump in the fall, would you vote for donald trump? >> no. >> so what is it about various republican candidates for the

presidency who live with the knowledge of what trump has done to the country, the damage he's done to this country that will ensue for god knows how long, what is it about them that causes this knee jerk reaction, oh, i would vote for trump anyway? >> it's an interesting combination of two emotions, mike. fear and ambition. so the fear part of it is that all of them treasure their titles. and so, they treasure their titles more than they treasure the honor that's given to them by the people to actually have those titles. they don't want to lose them and all worried about being primaried by someone who would there donald trump's endorsement. second, and this is where it applies in both nikki haley's and ron desantis' position, most importantly with nikki is ambition. the fact is she's been asked over and over again in new hampshire and elsewhere -- in fact, she got asked by 9-year-old kid last week in new hampshire, would you take the

vice presidential nomination from donald trump, and she wouldn't answer the question. what that tells you, you guys know this, in politics, when we won't rule something out, that means we're ruling it in. and so that ambition, that unbridled ambition to either be his vice presidential nominee or be the nominee in 2028, she doesn't want to offend anyone who's supporting donald trump right now, that's not the formula for beating donald trump in 2024. so to anybody who talks about, the race should be one on one, like chris sununu, if there was someone else other than me who had been willing to take on donald trump and tell the truth about him, i might consider getting out of the race. but there isn't. and so since there isn't, someone has to do it, and i'm going to do it. >> and the toughest criticism we've seen of donald trump from nikki haley and ron desantis, mika, is that he won't show up at the debate, which is a pretty safe place to criticize him. >> i'm sure he's wounded by that, willie. >> yeah, absolutely. >> well, chris, i appreciate

what you're doing, because there are a lot of lies being promoted by donald trump and his followers and cronies and even lawmakers on capitol hill that can't seem to face the truth about our contributions and our values. i'm curious about the fox news town hall and if you're at all hopeful. fox settled with dominion, $787 million for promoting lies. they paid big for sort of getting in bed with trump's lies. but he's going to be interviewed by two journalists who are really talented, committed journalists. is there any hope that he will actually be called out when he tries to tell a lie on stage? >> look, i have great respect for both brett and martha and i think they'll act very direct questions. you might remember, brett had an interview with him, and brett

went after him pretty hard. and trump complained for weeks afterwards, about how unfair brett was. but when he's looking to distract from the debate in iowa that he's gutless to participate in, he's willing to go back to fox and do it. and let's face it, fox is looking for ratings, because the first two debates that they did, they didn't do a fabulous job on, frankly. i thought the last two were better and more substantiaive than the first two were. and they're looking to get themselves back in this game somehow. because in new hampshire, there's going to be two debates within substantive than the first two were, and they are looking to get back in the game somehow, because in new hampshire there will be one done by cnn and one by nbc. i have a lot of faith in bret and martha, and i think they will ask him questions. what i am that's confident of is donald trump will not tell the truth or answer the questions. at some point people need to see

in the republican party what this is going to be like. the e. jean carroll case will start in a couple weeks, and he's now fighting to get on the ballot in a lot of states, and he's going to lose the federal immunity case he has, and my guess is the united states supreme court won't even hear it, but they will support what the d.c. circuit does so they don't have to get involved in it, and probably instead of march you will have april to have that trial going on. anybody thinking i am going to get out of the race is crazy, and a lot of voters will get that this is rejecting a race.

>> where are you on the case in maine? we will have the secretary of state on from about an hour from now? same idea in colorado, are those the right calls to keep him off the ballot? >> you breaking up a little bit, willie. i don't think there needs to be a conviction. in the same way there doesn't need to be a conviction if you are not 35 and running for president, or if you are not a natural born american citizen. i think there's a bigger policy issue here about whether or not we want the courts to make this judgment given how divided our country is. i would rather have the voters make the decision to kick donald

trump out. if you are talking about legally what it looks like, i think the colorado supreme court decision, while i disagree with it from a policy perspective, there's a legal basis for them doing what they are doing, and the question is will the united states supreme court deal with that? i think john roberts having gone through what has gone on in the courts in the past few years, he will try as hard as he can to get the court out of it. if he can't, they will deal with it. >> jonathan lemire has a question for you, governor. john? >> good to see you. i want to follow-up on something you said a moment ago, certainly resisting calls to drop out of new hampshire, and you made that case clear, and you said you

would stay through the trump court, and do you think you will stay in if you cannot attract delegates at that point? >> at some point when this starts to fall apart, the republican voters will need an alternative that made it clear that they are against donald trump and they predicted this was going to happen all along. i have been saying this since i got into the race, like anybody else in the race. this is never going to be easy, and when i got in the race i said everybody is a underdog. and that's why this talk about who should get out of race is crazy, and so the question is, who is standing on principle? who is going to do what is right for the party? i view this as a fight for the soul of our country and our

party. who are we going to be? what kind of party do we want? why should that fight be determined by polls? i have won and lost, and win wining is better, but i have not lost anything yet. i have qualified for every debate that was a national debate. i have qualified for both of the new hampshire debates in the week coming up between iowa and new hampshire, and i have met every mark that i needed to make set by the rnc or the networks, and i have not been on terafirma in iowa and i don't expect i will be. every place i have campaigned and worked we were able to

qualify for the debates, and we will continue to go hard. >> chris christie, governor, thank you to see you. >> thank you. >> only about 50 days until spring training. >> yeah, pitchers and catchers. >> yes. and a lawsuit related to jeffrey ebstein could link several prominent figures to the deceased convicted sex offender. according to claims by jets' quarterback, aaron rodgers, that includes jimmy kimmel. that's not true and we will tell you how the comedian is responding. we will break down polling on how americans view the attack on the capitol three years after it took place. we will talk to maine secretary of state about her decision to remove the former president from her state's 2024

primary ballot as the trump campaign has now filed an appeal. "morning joe" is coming back on this busy wednesday morning. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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♪ ♪ good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, january 3rd. we have so much to get to this morning, including a key senior hamas leader killed in an attack in beirut. we will go live to israel for what this now means for the country's war against hamas as fears of a potential escalation in the region intensifies. plus, russia pounds ukraine's two biggest cities in a new wave of attacks. the assaults are now likely to strain the country's defenses as the country continues to plead

r t.s aid. donald trump is appealing the decision about taking him off the ballot in maine. and is disqualifying trump anti-democratic? we have jonathan lemire, and catty kay and founder of the conservative website, charlie sykes. willie, we will start with political snapshots where the presidential race stands? >> nearly three years after the january 6th insurrection, new polling suggests the capitol

attack may be a liability for donald trump in the next election but not with his base. 50% of adults say the protesters that stormed the capitol were mostly violent while the number is down from a december of 2021 poll, which is down because fewer republicans believe that's true. 14% of americans say -- excuse me, 14% of republicans say donald trump bears the responsibility, and trump has had some success falsely claiming the last election was stolen from him, and 62% overall say joe biden was legitimately

elected. that's a few of the numbers from a sprawling poll here that tells us it's true that donald trump's support has strengthened and taken hold and become the truth to a lot of trump republicans if you want to call them that, but if donald trump does come out of the republican primary field and get to that election, this question of democracy and what happened around the last election of january 6th will be a liability to him. >> it will be. it's an old story that republicans are loyal to donald trump, and he is -- this is donald trump's party. what is really striking is that poll that shows his ability to re-write history, as you mentioned, this is a post reality world we live in here. we saw january 6th with our own eyes. we watched it and it's on

videotape in the wake of january 6th, and mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy came out and said, yes, donald trump is responsible for all 6 this and the evidence is voluminous, and we live in a world where tens of millions of people will deny their own eyes and deny the testimony of the people that were there and will ignore leaders of their own party. this is part of the new reality, the post reality reality that we live in, and donald trump has proven remarkably successful enable to push this revisionists story, and 2024 will be about whether or not people can push back, and liz cheney and adam kinzinger will be out there, and this will be relitigated again, i hope, and we see the level of the challenge in that poll. >> you wrote the book, jonathan,

"the big lie," and what you see is the sympathy among trump supporters and republicans for the people in jail right now. he's sort of recast them as hostages, and he called them the j6 hostages. many are buying that argument. the question remains it may be good for him in iowa, and it may work for him in new hampshire as he goes through the primary season, and if you look at the "washington post" poll it fits with what we have known previously, independents -- they think he bears responsibility for the january 6th attack. >> yeah, and they downplayed the

violence saying it was normal and peaceful protests. certainly as we see and as trump barrels into iowa with the commanding lead, it's not hurting the republican party, but it may hurt him with independence. president biden's base knows he has a problem but they feel good about where they are among independents because independents particularly next year when presented with the binary choice, trump or biden, they won't be able to break for trump again and january 6th is part of that, and it's because he remains a threat to democracy. brand-new this morning we know that he will be giving a speech this saturday, president biden, in philadelphia -- outside philadelphia at valley forge, a place of historic significance

and a place so fundamental of this country's founding, and he will warn about the ongoing threats to democracy, and then on monday he will head to south carolina. the mother manual church there, the site of the mass shooting some years ago, and the extreme forces unleashed by the far right is responsible for that, too. >> the truth is at stake, and a lot of americans are not seeing the truth clearly, and we can say it's once again shocking. to do a poll like this, okay, asking about january 6th and asking whether or not donald trump won or lost the election fairly, and that 50% of adults, i guess republicans, say the protesters that stormed the

capitol were mostly violent? these are people that -- there were police officers that went through multiple surgeries and are still dealing with the injuries they sustained that day from being beaten almost to death with american flags? >> what surprises me about that poll is the low number of independents, and i know what you mean by shock opera, and it's reminding of what people saw on that day, and the further

we get from that day, the more they think about inflation and the prices of gas or maybe the war in ukraine and in gaza, and after you see those images they are such a powerful reminder of what the country went through, and those are the images that led republicans like mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy and lindsay graham to say i am done with donald trump. play these images again, and it can't hurt, and giving a speech on january 6th is the kind of thing they need to be doing. >> donald trump, what he does, he goes there instead of cowers from things, and he is talking about the people that were put in jail for the crimes committed on january 6th as hostages, and

now donald trump is appealing the decision in maine to remove him from the ballot. last week, the secretary of state ruled trump was ineligible to appear on the state's primary ballot based on the 14th amendment, and now that her decision has been appealed it will be heard by the state's superior court. a new filing from the trump legal team accuses bellos of president in her decision. the secretary was a biassed decision-maker who should have recused herself. she responded saying i have confidence in my decision and in the rule of law. everyone who serves in the government has a duty to uphold the constitution first of all.

the court has until saturday to overturn that decision. we have timing issues with that as well. we will speak with secretary of state bellows when she joins us later today on "morning joe." willie, this is the question about january 6th, was it violent? was it an insurrection? of course it was an insurrection. we can go through all the details there, what weapons were used and who died, and who is in jail for years now for participating in it, and whether or not trump engaged in the insurrection, if he ended it or planning it or was he part of it? that's a simple question. that brings us to eligibility, like people who are under a certain age are not eligible to be on a ballot.

it's a simple question. whether or not he's eligible, it's not a political question. >> the argument from trump's camp and supporters and constitutional lawyers is he has not been convicted of insurrection, to which the secretary of state and others said we have seen plenty of evidence from the january 6th committee, and plenty of evidence in media reporting that he did, in fact, engage in that, and the secretary of state made that decision for her state. we will talk to her coming up in a couple hours. charlie sykes, you have a piece asking if disqualifying donald trump is anti-democratic. where do you land on that question? >> i am very, very sympathetic to the argument that the 14th amend disqualifies trump, and i am skeptical about how it will play out and i think there

potentially could be a backlash. the bumper sticker is we are defending democracy and undermining democracy by taking donald trump off the ballot. we talk a lot about democracy, and justifiably so, and i think we need to be precise that this country is not a democracy, it's a liberal constitutional representative democracy. all those terms mean something. democracy is just not about elections, but it's also about the rule of law and the constitution means something. so there are a lot of things that the majority doesn't get to do in the united states. the constitution lists many things that even a super majority can't do. it can't repeal the bill of rights. it can't do things that are prohibited by the constitution. if you are 32 years old and you are a citizen of norway you cannot run for president. that is just unconstitutional. but -- so those things are

undemocratic, but they are not necessarily anti-democratic. they don't undermine democracy. the liberal constitution of our system says we are a nation of laws and not of men. in some ways the trump folks are about to do this flip where they are saying, look, the people that claim to be defending democracy are undermining democracy, and this is a plausible argument which is why we need to push back and say, okay, we are a democracy, but it's more -- we are something else as well, and our founders understood that deeply, and they were very skeptical and created all the separations of power and the checks of and balances to say basically say, yes, we are a democracy and also a nation of laws and that's a point we need to make. look, what we are about to see is donald trump wrap himself in the cloak of the defender of democracy. don't be surprised when he manages that particular flip?

>> that's why time is of the essence for the supreme court to make a decision on if he will be on the ballot or not. let's bring in dave aaronburg and chuck. donald trump's attorneys said the secretary of state doesn't have standing to do on her own, and how do you see this playing out with the supreme court looking at the decision as well? >> if you want to focus under maine law, the supreme court has to move quickly and hear the case. of course if the united states supreme court comes along and stays all the various state proceedings, and you have stayed proceedings in almost 20 states,

and i hope we will get a single ruling from the united states supreme court. we are talking about colorado and maine and michigan, what they have done and they have done different things, but if the united states supreme court steps in, as i think they ought to, you will have one ruling, i hope, that sets the standard across the country. the danger whether you loathe mr. trump or love mr. trump is that you might have proceedings in different states with different rulings from each, and that's unattainable. i expect maine will move quickly unless the supreme court tells them to stop because they are going to take the case and issue a single ruling. >> whether it's the superior or supreme court, there could be a backlash and there's some that say that might need to be

considered? what is the job -- bring it down to if you discipline the child for getting into a fight, and then you think maybe i will not discipline him because the other kids might get mad? >> good morning, mika. it's not supposed to be the political backlash, and that's why you give federal judges and justices lifetime appointments, and they are not supposed to put their finger up to the wind and see which way it's going. state judges get elected, and i know some are saying it's undemocratic to take the decision away from the voters, but the constitution has to mean something, and i think it's

undemocratic to let people run for president who are not qualified. you have a maximum of two terms, and barack obama cannot run, even though the voters may want him to. you can't say the natural-born citizen clause applies but the insurrection does not. the mega alligator is always hungry. you will never satisfy those trying to appease him. >> and january 6th, of course, the shorthand for one of the cases he faces, the federal election interference case, one that also may be going before

the supreme court sooner than later in terms of timing, so can you give us an update as to what you see in that trial, and in particular when you think it might happen. i think so many political observers think this would be the one case, built for speed and would conclude with a verdict before the voters go to the poll this next november. do you think that's still likely? >> i, too, thought it was a case built for speed, and it was one defendant and four charges leveled against mr. trump. the trial date was -- still is, by the way, march 4th. i don't know that date is doomed. it certainly is endangered, and that's for a couple reasons. one, generally trial dates slide as both parties get involved with discovery and various motions are heard and decided by the judge. more to the point, jonathan, this march 4th trial has an

issue for the supreme court, which is whether or not -- well, sorry, let me be clear. it has an issue which is before the appellant courts which may also go to the supreme court, which is whether or not a president is immune from prosecution for acts taken while president. the answer has to be in this case factually and legally, mr. trump was not acting in his official capacity, and therefore he's not immune from criminal prosecution. i think that's the inevitable and right conclusion. the problem is so far we don't have that determination either by an appellant court or by the supreme court. do we get this whole thing done before march 4th, enabling the trial to go forward? again, i think it's endangered. perhaps not doomed yet, but endangered. >> charlie has been talking about the january 6th case and

the chance for that coming to trial and perhaps being resolved before the election and can you give us as we start this year some sort of crystal ball gaze forward on where we will be on these legal cases on election day of 2024, and do you think any of them have started or concluded or resulted in any kind of sentencing? what sort of stage do you think any of them will be at that could affect the election? >> yes, i think two of the criminal cases could go before the election. the new york case, which we forget about the stormy daniel hush-money payments could go, and more importantly, the stronger case, the one that donald trump is most scared of is, indeed, the case in washington, d.c. with the election interference, and it was built for speed and jack smith put fourth four counts to

the grand jury, and chutkan is the right judge for that trial. how long will it take the supreme court to rule on the immunity? and the d.c. circuit court of appeals will rule unanimous, a clear-cut ruling and the court will deny hearing the matter and defer to the lower court and then it's game on. i think that's the case that represents the greatest threat to donald trump's freedom and he knows it and that's why he knows the best strategy is to delay it past the election. >> wow. yeah, the list goes on and i have never seen somebody handling more accusations on legal fronts than donald trump. state attorney for palm beach county florida, david aaronburg and former u.s. attorney, chuck

rosenberg, thank you very much. charlie sykes, thank you as well for coming on this morning. coming up, a live report from the west bank. what we are learning this morning about the assassination of a senior hamas leader in neighboring beirut. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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hamas is now blaming israel for the death of one of its leaders who was killed in an explosion in lebanon yesterday. the drone strike happened in a densely populated stronghold of hezbollah. the man who was killed was the second in command of hamas's

political office. hamas claims six other leaders were killed in the strike. israel has not claimed responsibility for the attack but says it's in a state of, quote, high readiness for any scenario, this as the leader of hezbollah is vowing to strike back. meanwhile, one israeli and two u.s. officials tell axios that israel was behind the strike. nbc news has not verified this report. israel and hezbollah has been exchanging fire almost daily since the war began, and the strike is likely a warning to iran and any retaliation could lead to a broader conflict in the region, which everybody is worried about, willie. >> yeah, yesterday government officials were expected to discuss what gaza should look like once israel achieves its

goal of eradicating hamas, but after hamas accused israel of killing one of the leaders in beirut, and the war cabinet still agreed to meet but not discuss postwar plans. now joining us is matt bradley. what are they thinking about life after hamas if they achieve that goal? >> reporter: what is happening here in the west bank among the palestinians, and that's a day of rage, and they are convening here in the central square, and this issue is one that could spill over. this rage we are seeing here, and the protesters are walking around the city could spill over into the wider region and engulf quite a few other countries, including who you mentioned, lebanon, and like hamas, is

backed by iran. the houthis in yemen have been launching attacks against commercial shipping vessels in the red sea, and now assets are being deployed to the red sea to deter the houthis. iran also deployed a ship into the red sea. and south of beirut where i was just a couple of weeks ago, hezbollah could decide to weigh into the war. they have already been fighting, and more than 100 hezbollah fighters have been killed since this whole thing began, and what we could see is hezbollah deciding to weigh into the war in a full way, and we have not seen that because both sides have been playing by the rules

in place since the war between israel and hezbollah, and in just a couple of hours there will be a speech, this speech could set the tone for what hezbollah is going to be doing from here on out. the lebanese and a lot of other groups throughout the middle east said if this attack was from israel, and we are not expecting the israelis to fully accept the responsibility, and this speech could set the tone as to if they believe this was a violation of the lebanese sovereignty. the fact is that he was very, very careful to say that this was an attack not against

hezbollah, not against lebanon but against hamas. that's because as we are seeing israel, israel doesn't want to go to war with hezbollah, and signs show hezbollah doesn't want to go with israel either. >> yeah, doesn't look like the israeli army is in much condition to fight two wars on different fronts. and let's talk about the plans of the postwar gaza, and this idea into separating the strip into bits run by different plans. does that sound like something was viable? >> yeah, this is something that is an interesting suggestion. the fact is this has been tried, tested and failed in the past. the israelis have tried to find sort of proxy groups, and this is reporting from josh letterman

who gathered this from israeli officials yesterday, and this idea of putting clans into leadership, and that's an alternative and one that did not work out, because a lot of the clans in the past that were used to govern this part of the west bank, and this was decades ago, they were seen as collaborators, and that's how the palestinian authority was seen as collaborators as well, and that makes that unpopular as the opinion of the palestinians swings well against any compromise with the israelis, and hamas is becoming increasingly pop particularly outside of gaza where it has had dominion for the past 16 years. whether or not it works, it just goes to show the fact that the israelis are looking at a tried

and tested and failed solution to this problem goes to show how desperate they are to find any kind of solution to what will be happening in the gaza strip after they are done there. that has been the big missing question so far, who will govern the gaza strip if and when israel completes its goal of abolishing hamas. right now the israelis are so fueled with rage that this question seems like a side question, and this fight could go on until the end of 2024, the end of the new year. for many who governs the gaza strip is almost secondary to just the immediate goal of getting rid of hamas. guys? >> my god, nbc news foreign correspondent, matt bradley, thank you very much for your reporting and analysis this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning

joe," it's not the presidency on the ballot in 2024, but we will run to the other key issues at stake when voters head to the polls later this year. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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game-winning three from the great caitlyn clark, the iowa superstar hitting that impossible shot, not for her but for the rest of us, at the buzzer giving her 40 points for the game. iowa women's basketball team wins over michigan state. hawkeyes extend their winning streak to 11 games. she's one of the most exciting athletes in all of sports, men

or women. meanwhile in louisiana, wow, grambling state beat the college of biblical studies, 159-18 last night. >> wow. >> 141-win marks the largest victory, and might be a down year for the biblical studies college. according to espn, an average of 27 million viewers tuned in for michigan's over time win of alabama, that hit a peak audience of 33 million. in the nfl, during a radio interview yesterday, new england

patriots legendary head coach, bill belichick, addressed rumors that he will part ways at the end of the season. >> whatever success i have had, i try to go about my job the same way every week, win, lose, good years, bad years, whatever they are, just each week get ready to go for that week and do your best to help your team win, and at the end of the season, that's the end of the season, and on a week to week basis i don't want to spend time or get caught up in what happened five years ago or two years from now or other random stuff. the players here deserve my best, and that's what i will give them. if i was going to do anything, i would put it out on twitter and

my face -- >> my face. the patriots will miss the playoffs for the sixth time in belichick's 24 seasons. what is the word up in boston about belichick? is he going to go or hang around or give up the gm titles? there are a few ways this could go? >> nobody really knows other than the krafts that run the patriots. one thing for sure, the team has not quit on him, and last week they won. they have had a terrible year. i think what might happen at the conclusion of the year, the krafts sit down with the coach, if you want to stay we will surround you with our general manager and a whole new drafting group you will not control, and if you want to stay with that,

you can stay, but he will lead. >> i can't imagine the patriots without bill belichick. coming up next, we will speak with maine's secretary of state that removed donald trump's name from the ballot. that's next on "morning joe."

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♪ ♪ welcome back. a federal appeals court ruled yesterday that texas can ban emergency abortions even though the biden administration says a federal statute takes priority overstate laws prohibiting the procedure. the unanimous decision by the fifth circuit court of appeals stated the government cannot enforce the emergency medical treatment enable act, a federal

law that would require er doctors to perform abortions if necessary to stabilize er patients to save lives. the biden administration originally issued the federal guidance after the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v. wade in june of '22. texas sued the government accusing the administration of overstepping its authority. the court's decision comes a month after the texas state supreme court ruled against a woman seeking an emergency abortion of her nonviable pregnancy. that court is currently considering a separate lawsuit by 22 women on the scope of texas' abortion ban. catty kay, i think this will be

a hot button issue. >> yeah, kate cox had to leave the state to get the abortion she needed, and they will not be able to get the health care they need. while republicans initially told us when roe was overturned, doctors would be able to perform abortions, and it turns out in the state of texas they don't want women to get even emergency abortions when there's life and potential risks to their health, so it's very bad news for women in texas who might need that kind of healthcare, if they can afford it they'll have to leave the state in order to get it. politically it's this kind of ruling that keeps abortion alive as a political issue and has democrats right now the ones we've spoken to this is the kind of ruling that's going to win us

back the house and they're pretty confident that they can still mobilize and referendum after referendum in conservative state after conservative state, seems to suggest that both democrats and republicans, both women and men, will turn out in their states in order to try to protect abortion rights, so when abortion is on the ballot it's a motivator for the democrats. >> absolutely. katy, thank you. a look at stories on front pages p tp dallas morning news reports on the justice department's request for an emergency supreme court ruling to allow federal agents to cut razor wire installed by texas along the u.s./mexico border, the department says the wire makes it difficult for border patrol agents to reach and apprehend migrants. governor ab both responded to the request on x, quote, see you in court. in pennsylvania, the standard

speaker leads with a local water utility, recently targeted by iranian-backed hackers. the organizations were targeted because they contained specific israeli-made industrial-control devices. to fortify cyberattack in local municipalities. the arkansas democratic gazette, a growing number of women are ordering abortion pills, especially in states where abortion access is threatened. nationally the study found the average number of daily requests for the pill surged almost tenfold from about 25 to 47 rates of request were higher in states where abortion bans.

you see the result of the overturning of roe. in california, the los angeles times reports there are at least two mickey mouse-inspired horror films. the copyright of the short film officially expired on monday. coming up, the new year in the ukraine, off to a devastating start. we'll speak with that country's former president as russia unleashes one brutal attack after another. when "morning joe" comes right back. back

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a federal judge is soon to expected unseal hundreds of court documents related to convicted sex on fender jeffrey epstein, expected in the documents are the names of more than 150 people from epstein's

alleged victims to his employees, to other people, with only a passing connection to the scandal. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has the latest. >> reporter: a list of names kept secret for years. but as soon as this week, that may change. names of more than 150 people including alleged victims, employees and former associates of convicted sex on fender jeffrey epstein, now set to be revealed. it comes after a federal judge ordered many previously redacted court records including deposition transcripts unsealed, some of the jane does contained if the files already widely reported came forward on their own but speculation has been swirling about some of the john does might emerge particularly among the rich and powerful men alleged to be associated with jeffrey epstein, found dead in

jails while awaiting trial on charges. an attorney who moved to unseal the records years ago says some of the information could still be kept under wraps. >> a better kept secret than, you know, nuclear launch codes. >> reporter: the records all stemming from a now-settled civil suit filed by one of epstein's accusers against ghislaine maxwell, currently serving a 20-year sentence convicted of grooming young women and girls for abuse by epstein. writing, quote, there's going to be a lot of nervous people over christmas and new year's. >> take us serious, we matter. >> reporter: she also sat down with savannah and other survivors back in 2019. >> what does justice look like now in. >> holding accountable for the

prep traitors that helped him. >> reporter: the anticipated fallout over the list of names spilling out into public view, aaron rodgers appearing to accuse late-night host jimmy kimmel of having a connection to jeffrey epstein. kimmel responding overnight, threatening legal action in a post on x, writing in part, i've not met, flown with, visited, or had any contact whatsoever with epstein. adding, your reckless words put my family in danger. >> nbc's laura jarrett with that report. we'll be following this. it's just about the top of the fourth hour now of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast. 9:00 a.m. in the east. let's begin this hour with former president donald trump, formally appealing the decision by maine's secretary of state to remove trump from the primary

ballot there, now in maine, election challenges are often first ruled upon by the state's top election official, and last week, the secretary ruled trump is ineligible to appear on the state's primary ballot based on the 14th amendment, the same statute colorado's supreme court used. the appeal of her decision will be heard by the state's superior court, a new filing from the trump legal team accuses her of prejudice in her decision. the secretary was a biased decisionmaker who should have recused herself. the decision can be appealed all the way up to the u.s. supreme court and secretary bellows joins us now. good to have you on the show. we appreciate you joining us. i have a couple of questions. >> good morning, thank you.

>> good morning. can you explain for our viewers what you decided on, the issue of eligibility, what does that mean, who does it apply to beyond the former president in your opinion. >> it's important to understand that maine law is unique, now under article 1 of the constitution, the state have the authorities to administer elections. states have different election laws. here in maine, the legislature has delegated authority to the secretary of state to ensure every candidate meets the qualifications of the office they seek before placement on a primary ballot and under the law, so first i accepted mr. trump's signatures, qualified his signatures, any registered maine voter can bring a challenge to those signatures.

then i'm required under the law to hold an administrative hearing, both sides can have attorneys and did in this case, present evidence, witnesses, engage in cross-examination and then based on the evidence presented in the hearing, and the law, i'm required within a week of the conclusion of the hearing proceedings to issue a decision. now, the next step is superior court, mr. trump has appealed. that's the process, that's the rule of law, then it can go to the maine supreme court and of course the u.s. supreme court. >> the decision was made, my understanding it's not about whether a crime was convicted, the crime of insurrection, but engaging in insurrection, can you explain that, because i think a lot of people,

especially trump supporters are saying this is political, donald trump himself is saying certain things about you and your prejudice. can you explain the decision and how it pertains to insurrection? >> i swore an oath to uphold the constitution and my requirement delegated to me by the maine is to ensure candidates meet every qualification. for example, with presidential qualifications under the constitution i'm not permitted to allow an 18-year-old or a noncitizen or barack obama or george w. bush to be placed on the ballot. section 3 of the 14th amendment has never previously been -- i'm mindful that there's no precedent for a secretary of state to deny ballot access to a presidential candidate for engaging in an insurrection. i'm mindful that no presidential candidate has ever engaged in an

insurrection. the text of the 14th amendment is particularly important here and i'll quote, no person shall hold any office, civil or military, under the united states who having previously taken an oath as an officer of the united states to support the constitution of the united states shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. that's section 3 of the 14th amendment of the constitution under the authority delegated to me, i was required to issue a decision. now it goes to the courts. the maine superior court and the u.s. supreme court will make a determination and i will uphold the rule of law, i will follow whatever the courts decide. that's my obligation. >> can i just ask, has your life

changed at all since you made this decision? getting any reaction personally from either side in this fight? >> so, i'm heartened by the amazing positive reaction that i have received from people including people who disagree with my decision, a former republican legislation lay or the who told me candidly he disagrees with me, he support trump, he came by to give me a hug, that kind of support, has been really encouraging. i also have been deeply concerned at the aggressive abusive and threatening communications targeting my staff, my family, and indeed on friday night, my home was swatted. my husband and i were away for the holiday weekend. law enforcement has been perfect, they acted completely

appropriately. and we're in great communication with me. just because it was fake and, you know, swatting is a fake call, doesn't make it any less dangerous and these types of attacks need to stop, the proper process is to follow the rule of law and that is what i have done, i have done my duty under the constitution and it's now in the hands of the courts and then i will implement whatever the courts direct me to do, that's what we do in a democratic republic, that's what makes our country, our nation so great, so powerful, we're a rule of law, these political attacks are really unacceptable. >> secretary bellows, good morning. great to have you on this show. let me ask you about what you saw in terms of the evidence in that hearing that led you to conclude that former president has engaged in an insurrection,

debate over the use of that word, was it really an insurrection on january 6 lt, the attack on the capitol, the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. so, what did you hear that triggered you to think, yes, the former president did engaged in an insurrection? >> i encourage people to read my decision on the secretary of state's website and it lays out the evidence that i reviewed, the process, the due process afforded to mr. trump, to all parties in this process. and my decision. so i think that's really important. what the record demonstrated that the events of january 6th were not only tragic and unprecedented, not only an attack on the capitol, on members of congress, and the former vice president, but also an attack on the rule of law and

the peaceful transfer of power. now, entered into the record if the hearing, were a number of reports, the united states governmental accountability report, i'll quote from that report, i quoted it in my decision, over the course of about seven hours, more than 2,000 protesters entered the u.s. capitol on january 6th disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, threatening the safety of vice president, members of congress and the attack resulted in assault on police officers, including 114 capitol police and d.c. metropolitan police departments and these events led to at least seven deaths. >> you can read more of that in the 34-page decision that this was in fact insurrection.

you obviously are following the law here as you just laid out for us here a few minutes ago, you're a human being, an american who lives in this country and you know what the potential implications of your decision can be to keep donald trump off the ballot there, the reaction from supporters, did they weigh on you, i know you're taking the legal view as you should, did the human element of this and the societal and political element did that weigh on your decision? >> i swore to an oath to uphold the constitution, neither political consequences nor personal consequences to my safety could be a consideration. because the constitution doesn't have any exception for politics or personal considerations, the constitution matters most. and it's what we all of us who

serve in government need to follow above all. >> so, secretary, i'm curious, i want to circle back to the swatting of your home and how certain are you that this wasn't a reaction to your decision and therefore done in the name of trump, can you explain to our viewers what swatting is. >> so, to my knowledge, no elected official in maine have ever before been swatted, to define it for your viewers, swatting is an anonymous call, make that designed to invoke a strong law enforcement response which can result to harm to law enforcement or the targeted family and indeed what eve seen across the country is those fake

emergency calls have sometimes led to tragic consequences. now, fortunately, in my case, law enforcement has been just wonderful. they've been in great communication with me, we were prepared to protect my security, they have really stepped up in a remarkable way and so, it happened without incident and i wasn't home, my husband and i were away for the holiday weekend, but it could have been different if we had not been prepared and if i hadn't had such great partners in law enforcement. it's unacceptable. this happened the next night after my decision was issued. >> on this topic, al gore, john kerry, john mccain, mitt romney, and hillary clinton, all lost presidential elections, none of

them were involved in anything called swatting calls as a result of their loss, you're a public official, you were just swatted, what did does that tell you about the state of democracy and do you have any fear of what's happening to democracy going guard? >> i am deeply concerned that we -- the proper response to my decision, if you disagree with my decision, mr. trump has due process rights in the court to appeal, if you disagree with the law that delegates this authority to the secretary of state, there's a process to change the law, but to target me, my family, and the people around me including the people that work with me, with these abuive and threatening communications, with swatting, is wrong, it's dangerous and it needs to stop, i really call on people, everyone, to -- we all

have friends and family, let's bring back respect and civility, we can agree to disagree without threats of violence and it's really important to our democracy that we follow the rule of law and that we leave aside threats of violence and move forward to try to do better as a nation. >> on a similar vein, the a number of law enforcement officials do fear about the pongts of political cam violence with this upcoming election. what sort of safety measures is your state putting in place to safeguard access to the ballots? one district in maine up for grabs, lot of focus on that state, what sort of security is being put in place both to defeat election fraud attempts as well as violent ones?

>> what's important to know that i'm really proud of our election administrators in maine, we have one of the longest tenured election directors in the country. we have wonderful municipal clerks and our security measures are well established. election security is not new for us. we've working on it for a very long time. indeed this hearing process and the challenge, although a review of the section 3 under the 14th amendment qualifications of the candidate are unprecedented this process is not under -- myself held a similar hearing in 2022 around the district attorney candidate, so we have a established processes we'll follow the law. we'll follow what we're required to do under statute and maine is always a state and we pride

ourselves on that, we're always a state where people both vote the person not the party, we're committed to democracy and it's one of the reasons in 2022 that we were number one in the nation in voter turnout, we have excellent engagement. i'm really proud of it. >> maine's secretary of state bellows, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. all right, take care. coming up on "morning joe," new attacks in eastern europe overnight mark the latest in a recent intensification of aerial warfare around the new year and a series of retaliatory attacks by russia and ukraine over the last few days. we'll speak to former ukrainian president about the fighting. we'll be right back. we'll be ri.

it's to fast hour, hamas says one of its political leaders was killed in a strike in beirut, lebanon, the terrorist group is now blaming israel and experts say yesterday's drone strike will likely be perceived as a warning to iran, and any retaliation could lead to a broader conflict in the region. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley has the details. >> reporter: today in an already-volatile region braces for a wider war. hamas accused israel of killing its second in commander among other leaders. he had a $5 million american bounty on his head. this eyewitness said it wasn't a military jet it was a drone, it had a low sound. israel neither confirmed or denied responsibility for the attack. >> whoever did this strike was very surgical and went for hamas

target because israel is at war. whoever did this has a gripe with hamas. >> reporter: founding members of hamas military wing and a key liaison with other countries. hi praised the october 7th attack in israel. killing in the center of beirut will never put to rest achieving the goals. israel's military spokesman said we're on high readiness for any scenario. hezbollah and israel have exchanged fire for months. they stopped short of an all-out war but last night's attack right in a hezbollah strong hold could represent an escalation of the conflict, has pledged a response to any assassinations in lebanon. >> matt bradley with that

report. jonathan lemire, there's a loft talk about this becoming a wider war on a number of different levels, we've got lebanon, we've got iran and we have things happening now that could trigger that at any moment, how is that changing the game in the white house on how they deal with israel on helping them, put that in quotes, shape their strategy. >> reporter: certainly the greatest fear in this white house is that this war could expand and certainly real anxiety about what happened here, nbc news is reporting this morning that indeed israel was behind that strike that killed the hamas leader, the u.s. was not notified ahead of time that it was happening, now look, the u.s. has said they're not telling israel what to do or how to conduct this war but statement they've been urging caution, urging restraints in terms of hitting civilian target. we'll see if that happens here, and mika, just breaking news

this morning about showing how tense the whole region, a pair of explosions in iran at a memorial service for the general soul mi who the u.s. killed in a strike a few years ago in 2020 when donald trump was still president, a pair of explosions in iran at least 103 people are dead and 141 wounded, both of those numbers expected to escalate. no claims of responsibility, it's not clear that it's connected to anything else that's happened in the region in the last couple of months, but certainly underscores just how tumultuous the middle east is. >> we're just getting details on this, major explosion killing 103 people according to state media there tehran, more on that as we get it, turning to ukraine

where russia has escalated its attacks on that country over the past two weeks, the russian military is reporting new strikes in the past 24 hours near a port in crimea in a city located near the border of ukraine, the same city russia says ukraine struck on saturday for which president putin vowed retaliation. yesterday, ukrainian president zelenskyy said russia has fired nearly 300 missiles and launched more than 200 drones throughout the country in just the last three days. joining us now is the former president of ukraine, petro poroshenko. thank you for joining us again. what more can you tell us about the last three days in the capital city of kyiv, in kharkiv and other cities across ukraine that have come under aerial assault from russia. >> while the whole world

celebrating their christmas and new year's eve, ukrainians spent it in the shelters and i can tell you my personal impression, it was the missiles near my house, this is exactly like -- i see with my own eyes the blast of the missile and the blast with the distant of 1.5 kilometers from my house. this is the disaster because only during yesterday the attack on kyiv we have 31 victims. altogether, take the missiles, ballistic missiles and drones, 29th of december, it was 500

attacks. this is just an understanding and reminder of how russia terrorizing the world, i think that it should start to be a wake-up call for the whole western countries that we need to act decisively, we need to call security council, and we should demonstrate to russia that we never expect these types of things and we have to answer on this disastrous attack. but at the same time, ukraine surprised the world with our military power and defense, i

want to use this opportunity to thank you, thanks for the missile you delivered to ukraine, destroying russia's ability to attack the free world and democracy. >> mr. petro poroshenko we're looking at scenes from ukraine of the death and violence that comes from the skies from drones, from bombings, from missiles, and yet this remains a ground war, a big ground war between ukraine and russia, so my question to you is, vladimir puttin continues to send hundreds of thousands of young soldiers and old soldiers to their deaths in ukraine and the ukrainians fight fiercely as they will through the remaining winter months, at some point the ukrainian's population compared to russia's population is going

to leave you with a dwindling supply of aged soldiers to recruit and serve, does this concern you, this population difference iterms of the armies? >> definitely is concerning. not a mathematics or statistics, ever single week i'm on front line, to deliver artillery, the drone, for altogether more than 110 million euro -- this is the life of ukraine. we're fighting for our own life. we're fighting for our own country. we're fighting for freedom and democracy. and this is more than about ukraine. this is about the freedom and democracy on the whole world. because we need to stop russia and when putin sent hundreds of

thousands of russian soldiers, hundreds of thousands of russians already staying in ukraine forever. altogether, official figures more than 360,000 russian soldiers, which was liquidated since the february. we stop russian military machine. the second biggest in the world, second biggest nuclear power. because of the assistance of our partners. at the same time, we have enough weapons to stop putin and we definitely have not enough

weapons to throw putin away from ukraine and for this we need more modern weapons and i want to use this opportunity to call on congress, please make decision for military assistance, for the financial assistance for ukraine as soon as possible. this is the question for survival of our nation. and this is not let putin to hold ukrainian hostages. let american congressmen and people don't use ukraine -- for their internal politics. we're on the fight for the whole free world. help us to do your job. >> former president of ukraine,

petro poroshenko. thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. coming up, hours from now, house speaker johnson and 60 republicans will head to the southern border as senate negotiations resume. we'll get an update on where those talks stand right now. also ahead, politico is taking a look at the political stories that will dominate this year, stories other than the presidential election. "morning joe" will be right back. joe" will be right back how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

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the world's leading website for health and wellness products. unleash your potential with force factor on iherb. 36 past the hour, live look at the white house, a beautiful morning in washington. beginning tomorrow, the biden administration is set to reopen several ports of entry at the southern border, ports previously closed due to record influx of migrants, senior administration officials say those ports are in california,

arizona and eagle pass, texas, which is where house speaker mike johnson will lead a group of 60 republican lawmakers on a trip to the u.s./mexico border later today. meanwhile, the bipartisan group of senators trying to negotiate a border security deal, return to d.c. yesterday to continue working and have talks. the group led by democratic senator chris muhy, republican james langford and independent kyrsten sinema. with the secretary. >> i'm actually optimistic these are earnest, hard-working efforts to tackle a very complicated problem, we've been making progress each and every da and despite how difficult it is that process is ongoing and i'm hopeful that an immigration fix will occur.

>> that bipartisan senate group plans to update the full senate when it returns to d.c. on monday. willie. abortion rights activists secured some big wins across the country in 2023 including a decisive win two months ago in ohio to enshrine abortion rights in the that state's constitution. our next guest says abortion access is one of the many nonpresidential stories to watch in 2024. madison, great to have you with us in the studio today. some of these initiatives, abortion will be on the ballot again in 2024, where should bewatching. >> so this year we're actually poised to have the most abortion rights initiatives on the ballot since roe was overturned two years ago this point.

i'm going to keeping an eye on states that are also having some competitive senate races, so that's montana, that is florida, that's nevada, and it's going to be interesting to see how they intersecretary with each other and we need to keep in mind that a presidential election is happening at the same time as these initiatives. i'll be keeping an eye on how those work together, split votes, are voters going to be voting in favor of abortion rights but also voting iffer a republican candidate who might not necessarily agree. >> it's an interesting connection, not much as enthusiasm for president biden they're hoping some of the people who come out to protect abortion rights and check the box for biden. texas, ohio, montana, some democrats sherrod brown in ohio,

jon tester in montana in serious fights. >> democrats are hoing to maintain their majority. but they're also trying to expand the map, that's going to be in texas and florida. races that have been a bit out of reach in previous years, so, if they do manage to win there that's going to be huge. >> what does it look for sherrod brown, he's somehow defied, it's become a red state, he's deied that for many years. >> absolutely. going back to abortion, we can look at the abortion rights initiative that occurred last week that was a great win for democrats and senator brown is definitely going to be riding off of that and leaning into abortion rights messaging this year. >> another interesting race you're looking at is texas, ted cruz faces allred, former nfl

player, we're going the take out ted cruz, we're going to win in texas, any different this year in >> it's hard to say, there's already a lot of outside money pouring in to try to unseat him, but, you know, there's been well-funded challenges before and they were unsuccessful. we'll have to wait and see. >> what states do you think the abortion rights initiatives that have been on ballots might be on ballots going forward that would most help democrats? >> florida is one i'm really keeping an eye on, i think we'll also foresee how quickly it can get on the ballot because that's one of the first deadlines they have until next month to have the signatures approved. >> and ohio. >> definitely. let's talk about special election, new york 3, george

santos' district, he's been thrown out. >> it's rapidly approaching, in just a few weeks, in february, so obviously lot of eyes are going to be on it because of george santos, but i also think it's important to keep an eye on it because it's one of the districts that biden won in 2020 but republicans won in the midterm. >> lot of those districts in new york, too, mike lawler, lot of people up this year in tough races. governors races, north carolina is one you'll be watching closely. >> definitely, a ton of governor races, if you have to pick one, keep an eye on north carolina, you know the state's been a little difficult for democrats recently, but the governorship has been, you know, that's one of the seats they have held.

former president trump won that state narrowly in 2020, so, you know, it could be difficult, again, if we're going off of that, but right now the front-runner for the democratic nomination is attorney general josh stein and on the republican side the front-runner seems to be the lieutenant governor robinson, he comes with some baggage based off of his past comments and it raised what happened in midterms. candidate quality for republicans. that's something to keep an eye on. >> i'm reading some of the comments here from robinson, quote, we're called to be led by men. lot to watch this year, politico's madison fernandez, thanks so much. coming up, a look at so much the headlines across the country. including a crackdown on selfies on the las vegas strip. we'll explain when "morning joe"

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matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire ♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 47 past the hour. time now for a look at the morning papers in utah, the spectrum and daily news leads with the story of a chinese exchange student reuniting with his family after police say he was the victim of a cyberkidnapping, he was reportedly targeted by a group online and made to believe his family was in danger after isolating in a tent in the mountains, he took photos which the kidnappers sent to his family along with a ran some note, police say he was cold, scared and hungry when they found them. the fbi is warning of similar incidents around the country.

the los angeles times is reporting on concerns surrounding the snow drought across the western united states, experts say a mild winter has resulted in below average snow pack in the sierra nevadas. california relies on snow melt from the mountains for nearly a third of its water supply, drier winters contributed to more extreme fire seasons when temperatures rise. the las vegas sun is highlighting a new rule banning people from stopping to take selfies or performing other activities on pedestrian bridges along the strip, in newly designated in pedestrian flow zones stopping, standing or doing anything that causes someone else to stop is a violation that can cost up to $1,000 or six months in jail, the county commissioners unanimously passed the ordinance calling it a matter of public safety. finally in new mexico, nasa

will be launching several space missions in 2024 including an exploration of jupiter's moon europea, the orbit the earth's moob and a search of the moon's south pole in hopes of discovering water. fascinating. up next, an update from the wife of actor bruce willis about his battle with a form of dementia, we'll hear her emotional message next on "morning joe." ♪boost♪ nutrition for now.

in 2022 bruce willis retired from public life after his family announced he'd been diagnosed with a form of dementia. snow his wife emma is opening up about her husband's health and the struggles they face as a family every day. chloe melas has more. >> welcome to the party, pal. >> reporter: it's been nearly

two years since the family of legendary actor bruce willis shared his private health battle with the world that he had been diagnosed with a rare form of dementia. >> how do i really feel about today? well, how do i look? >> reporter: now willis's wife opening up about the emotional struggles she faces daily. >> holidays are hard. anniversaies are hard. but for me this year, it has really been about community. >> the video posted just days after her touching tribute to her husband celebrating 16 years together, writing my love and adoration for him only grows. and two of his daughters from his marriage from demi moore scout and tallulah sharing never before seen photos with their dad. she writes in part welcome to the joy. ta lulu reflecting on the past year sharing this photo holding

her father's handwriting in part, found myself, found my life, found my health. willis's family first announced his diagnosis of aphasia in 2022 and said he would be retiring from acting. last year they revealed his conditional had progressed to ftd. the disorder can cause personality changes and make it difficult to speak or comprehend language. emma sat down with hoda in september to talk about her husband's condition. >> does he know what's going on? is that something that he is aware of? >> hard to know. it's hard to know. >> reporter: now as willis's family continues to play a supportive role, they're thanking those who have stood by their side. >> please find support. find your people. it honestly feels like the biggest, warmest hug. >> he is one of the greats. nbc's chloe melas with that report for us. that does it for us this morning, we'll see you right back here tomorrow morning.

yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage after a quick final break. ♪ grew up way too fast ♪ ♪ now there's nothing to believe ♪ ♪ the reruns all become our history ♪ qunol. the brand i trust.

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