crystals like this haircut. >> but kimmel making it clear in a post that rodgers' latest comments are no laughing matter denying any association with epstein and threatening legal action writing your reckless words put my family in danger. it's unclear if his family has received threats over the matter. after giving rodgers a platform to speak on his show, mcafee now leaving the door open to clarify his comments. >> we apologize for being a part of it. can't wait to hear what aaron has to say about it. >> i wonder what he will say. that's it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hey, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. the nine justices on the united states supreme court receive is up to 8,000 requests to hear a case every year. out of those thousands of requests, they usually hear oral

arguments in about 80 of those casings touching on every aspect of american life, big or small. and at this very moment, they are waiting to hear if they will pick up one of those big cases, the kind of case that winds up in the had history books. the outcome could determine who is on the ballot for milons of voters as they head to the polls this year. we are talking about a challenge to donald trump's spot on the ballot based on the 14th amendment, which bars insurrectionists from running for office. as we reported on this program yesterday, the ex-president is now asked the supreme cou to keep him on the ballot appealing a ruling from the supreme court that found trump was ineligible because of his role on january 6th. the republican party has also asked the court to take the case. so of the voters who filed the challenge in the first place, everyone agrees the supreme cot has to take action. "the washington post" reports that attorneys for the colorado voters who challenged trump's spot on the ballot wrote that if

this court does not step in now, it risks millions of voters casting ballots for trump in states he appears on the ballot only to find out later he's disqualified. clarity that only this court can provide is needed and needed soon. as colorado secretary of state points out, the deadline to certify the primary ballot is tomorrow. take a listen to what she said last night here on msnbc. >> on friday, i i certify the candidates who can be placed on the ballot. then the county clerks will start printing the ballots next week. colorado, of course, we have some of the best elections in the country. and that includes early voting, but also mail ballots. and ballots for military voters will go out actually this month. so it's quickly approaching timeline. i do hope the supreme court acts with urgency because frankly the

american people deserve to know whether a president can engage in inis sur recollection and then be qualified to hold that office. >> that is where we start this hour with former chairman at the rnc and my cohost on msnbc the weekend michael steele. also joining us is former top official at the department of justice andrew weisman. and former acting solicitor general, it's good to see you all. do you expect the supreme court to pick up this case? >> yes. i have the privilege of filing a lot of requests for the supreme court to hear cases. they often hear my requests and grant them. this is a case that has every hallmark of being granted by the supreme court. i expect it will be granted. the justices are meeting in the morning tomorrow. suspect by the afternoon the court will set a date for the oral argument in this case. it just has gravity and importance in a world in which trump has already been removed from two different ballots in colorado and maine, i think the

supreme court has to hear the case. >> there is gravity. there's also urgency, as we noted at the top of the problem. the primary ballot in colorado has to be certified tomorrow. donald trump is on the ballot right now because the state supreme court issued a stay of their ruling. does the whole issue become moot if the justices don't weigh in today? >> it doesn't become totally moot. even though the clip that you played suggested it's going to become very complicated, if they don't weigh in today or tomorrow morning, but it is possible for ballots to go out and then to have essentially the court rule that somebody cannot be on that ballot. it make it is very complicated for colorado or maine, whatever the states are, but i should also say the other thing that could be very complicated is the court, i think, could easily take this case. i think he's completely right

they will take it. but it's possible they lay out what the procedures are that states must follow if they are going to find somebody cannot be on the ballot. or they could disagree with the procedures that colorado filed. then we're back to square one, where we could have renewed applications. so they could also find in ways that that possibility is not open to what they could say it needs to be in congress that asks. there needs to be enacting legislation. but there are a whole range of possibilities here that could lead to additional state litigation about trump and whether he's qualified. >> let's talk about that range of possibilities. because last night our colleague asked if it we could end up with a patchwork of decisions. trump on the ballot in some states and not in others. here's what she said. >> that could happen. every state has different laws.

some states allow disqualified or unqualified candidates on to their presidential pimaries. states like colorado, we do not allow that. and that's why it's so important for the supreme court to step in. this is a big question. it's nol. it's unpress dependented. usually we do not have presidents trying to steal the presidency. usually we do not have people who engage in insurrection run for president. >> the possibility of difference, the possibility of a patchwork all dangerous for our democracy, no? >> it is. >> it's worth understanding what that patchwork is. colorado has a unique set of procedures. maine has a different process with the secretary of state doing it. california has another process in which there isn't such the

ability to challenge in quite the same way. and that reflects the laboratory of our democracy. i don't i think that makes it hard for the supreme court to issue a ruling one way or the other on the big questio. they can certainly say the 14th amendment section 3 appies to presidents, applies to insurrectionists. and maybe in certain states, they can remove trump from the primary, but by the time it comes to him in the eligibility to hold office at the general vote, it maybe that he's disqualified there. you could get a variety of different approaches, but i think ultimately the big million dollar question is if you are an adjudicated insurrectionist, as he has been in colorado after a five-day evidentiary hearing, can you run for president of the united states. i think the supreme court can can answer that question and will provide guidance to all 50 states.

>> that's the million-dollar question. there are also questions circulating at least in the discourse. this question this is democratic or undemocratic. i want to play something chris christie said today about why he's opposing the efforts to take trump off the ballot. take a listen. >> i think it makes him more likely than the not continue the vision and discord in this country in a way that is destructive to our democracy. and i believe in democracy. i believe the people in this country will not reelect donald trump. >> i i wonder what you make of his point? >> i hear that argument a lot. i can't buy it. it's just so past where donald trump is. the reality is whether donald trump, whatever his situation is, whether he's in this situation or the another one, he's going to foemt what he's

going to foe meant. what makes you think if donald trump gets his way he's going to play ball with everybody, that he's going to behave, that he's not going to engage in further insurrection. if he gets elected in november, what happens in 2029? when he's not eligible to run again and decides, i kind of like the white house. the lincoln bedroom, not so bad. i think i'll stay. so there's always the this element about him that says he's going to destruct and destroy. disrupt and destroy. that's the game. and so this piecemeal, with the american people have to make a choice. they made a choice. in 2020. they unelected him. they threw him out of office. he didn't like the result and then insur recollected to gain that office. the 14th amendment applies here. what colorado is doing here is

correct. i think constitutionally under the principle because we have seen the actions, not something that he may do, it's something he's already done. ien adopt know why people think he's going to do anything differently if we let him get his way. >> to put what michael said another way, whether donald trump uses the 14th amendment challenges to make himself a martyr, as he wants to do, that has no bearing on the law. right? >> this is exactly right. and to call this undemocratic, no, it's part of our constitutional the government. it's like i can't vote for arnold schwarzenegger to be president as much as i might want to vote for one of them because they are not natural born citizens. our constitution takes that off the table. so it's not antidemocratic. it's part of our constitutional system. i i would say that the 14th

amendment founders actually lace ed into the text of the amendment a democratic solution. so if trump is upset about being labeled an insurrectionist, he has the option under the 14th amendment to go to congress and get a vote on whether or not he should be reinstated. that's the democratic way. if you want to talk voter choice and the like. >> and there's the argument that congressman raskin has made this is one of the eligibility requirements where there's something like age or the place they are born. let's talk about the bigger picture. this is not the only case involving donald trump that's likely to wind up before the supreme court. politico put it like this. in the next few months, the court may need to decide whether trump will spend the campaign sitting in a courtroom, whether he must are remain muzzled from spewing his vitriol and whether he can even run at all.

walk us through all the cases that relate to the ex-president that could end up before the supreme court. >> there are two others to keep your eye on. the one that is going to be heard in the d.c. circuit, that's the court of appeals in the washington, d.c. has to do with donald trump's claim as a former president he's immune from criminal prosecution. that is not going to prevail. i would hate to be the predictor here, but i think there's just no way in god's green earth that's going to happen. there are had ways in which the court could deny that. so the biggest issue there is timing. how long will it take for the circuit and potentially for the supreme court to disease that. while that is being litigated account there is a stay of all substantiative litigation in the washington, d.c. case.

remember, that was initially scheduled and still technical ily on the books scheduled for march 4th. so the real issue is to keep the eye on when that stay will lift. there's substance of the obstruction charge. one of the charges, one of the four charges that donald trump faces in washington, d.c. and there in a separate case, donald trump is not a defendant a n that case, but the legal issue is the same, which is what does the obstruction statute require the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. that case actually could be quite interesting because if i were a prosecutor, that's when i would want to know that. at least prior to the case going to the jury against donald trump that the jury is correctly charged pursuant to what the supreme court says are the requirements. but again, that is one that should not prevent or stop in

any way donald trump from being tried in d.c. it's just something that could change the scope of what it is that the prosecution is required to prove for one of the charges in that case. >> given that context, i wonder what you think is going on inside the court. they must know they are about to deal with an avalanche of trump-related cases involving some unprecedented situations. a situation where case law is really thin. your sense of the conversations happening? >> i'm sure it's just terrible timing for the court. they did what they did in dobbs, which is angered the good chunk of the country. there were other questions about the supreme court and now to have this set of cases in this really polarized time. the chief justice cares tremendously about the

constitutional legitimacy of the court. and these cases are undoubtedly very trying. when it comes to the colorado case, i think one of the hardest things is that the justices on the court, the republican-appointeds have talked about their methodology being one of the original intent of the constitution. and there's basically two big camps on how to read the constitution. one is associated with the left. an idea of the living constitution that you look to policy consequences that you're not in a straight jacket because of the founders' views. the other associated with the republican party is strict construction of the constitution and original intent. here's the problem for donald trump. the original intent is squarely against him every day of the week on the colorado 14th amendment case. two very conservative scholars wrote a long article about this. so for someone like trump and trump's appointees to the supreme court have taught the language of sbept, that's the

way in which trump loses this case. i think if the challengers in colorado to trump keep their eye on that ball and speak the language of the conservative justices, i think they can prevail in this case. >> neil alluded to this dynamic, but the confidence in the supreme court is pretty low a at the moment. now they are set to play a role in the election, the likes of which we haven't seen bush v. gore. they are not just walking through a legal mindfield it's political as well. >> it is. and i can tell you from the few times i have had had the privilege of a conversation with the chief justice at various events around town, i'm sure everybody knows this who knows him. this upsets him. he hates the mingling of their judicial responsibilities and approach to constitutional norm asks principles and ideas to get

mixed up in the politics. it really bothers him. but unfortunately for him, he's got some actors on his court that are very much interested and engaged in that respect. when you look at the noise swirling around justice thomas, you look at the writings and pronouncements of justice alito, you cannot move away from the court being immersed in the political space. and i know neil know this is from his engagement with the members of the court, particularly the chief justice as well. it's something that is not something he can control. and so what he's got to do, i think, is find the combination of good forces that do align around this idea of doing the heisman, it you will, with respect to the politics to create that separation.

so that they can adjudicate these cases that are dwoing to be coming one after the other. they have already started, as we have discussed, so they don't get sucked further into the muck and mire of politics. when people read their decision, they will will read them with a clearer eye than the one they currently have, which will be full of political mud. >> i want to circle back to the deadline that is before us tomorrow. i remember about a month ago having the secretary on talking about january 5th. it seemed a as though it was a date in the future and on the horizon in unimaginable. here we are. it is tomorrow. i wonder if you're surprised we are hours out and do not yet have clarity. >> i am a little surprised. i do blame donald trump's legal team for this. they had two weeks. they took two weeks to file their petition at the united states supreme court. theyen shouldn't have taken that time if it's as wrong as i they said and should have teed this

up for the supreme court earlier. now the court is kind of jamd into this. and andrew was absolutely right. there are ways for the court to rule tomorrow afternoon on whether to hear the case and ways to try to undo some of the uncertainty, but the fact is on january 20th, there's going to be mail-in ballots sent to military and overseas voters and then on february 12th active registered voters will get their ballots. so there's a need for the supreme court to resolve this as quickly as possible. i do blame the trump team taking that long to file that brief. now the court is a little jammed. >> the clock is ticking. thank you so much. when we come back, the ex-president is turning his very busy legal calendar into one big spectacle. we'll look at the legal and political strategy that is behind that. plus with president biden marking january 6th anniversary

as an all hands on deck warning to preserve democracy, a new poll shows an alarming number of americans believe the fbi instigated the riot. and later democrats releasing hundreds of pages of evidence alleging while president of the united states donald trump pocketed millions of dollars from foreign governments. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after this. don't go anywhere. e white houses after this don't go anywhere.

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while exploring careers in media. so what are you waiting for? the world needs you. start your career in journalism today at contracosta.edu it's no secret by now it's common knowledge. for donald trump's spectacle are a by product to his approach to politics, they are a primary future. this is the fwie that had to be

talked out of an thorntarian parade that would have torn up the streets of washington, d.c. the guy who threw out paper towels, t-shirt canon style at a relief center in puerto rico after hurricane maria. the guy who wanted to be wheeled out of walter reid when he got covid. the guy who used a bible as a prop at st. john's church and reportedly welcomed the idea of a perp walk in front of television cameras prior to his arraignment. as we said, spectacle. today reporting from "the new york times" just winding up to do it again. according to the times, in the course of a week, trump plans to attend all three of this month's courthouse moments. oral arguments on tuesday, closing arguments in the civil frud trial in new york on thursday, and then the start of the damages trial the following tuesday. michael and andrew are back.

before we get to the political half of this development, just from a strictly legal strategy perspective, is trump's decision more reichly to help his causes, to hurt them or neither? >> i think it helps him because of the political sphere that michael is going to talk about, which is his sort of saying that i am a victim, i'm a martyr for you, all of these not so vaied illusions to religion and when he's doing for his base and sort of locking that in, and that really is, in many ways, his legal strategy because legally, take the e. jean carroll case. he lost that already. the case that is coming up, the judge has already found liability against him. so much like the rudy giuliani

case, we know he is losing that case. it's just a question of how much money the jury is going to award. so he's going to be using that both to pursue his victimization strategy and he's going to use this as free publicity. and i think the challenge for all of us in the media is really understanding that and understanding that if we're going to be spending much time as we have to spend time covering the nature of those cases and if liability is found, we obviously have to cover that. it's a first. but we really feed to think about how much time we're going to spend on other candidates, both republican candidates and democrats, so all of the noise and all of the oxygen in the room is not swallowed up by donald trump making these cases that donald trump showed for his base. >> so let's put that in the context of the calendar and let's show that calendar one time.

the other date, january 15th, iowa caucuses. trump will crisscross the country flying back and forth from new york to iowa and straight to new hampshire on the 16th. that's a lot of effort. why is he going through the trouble to do that? >> it's all part of the play book. >> we celebrated the birth of baby jesus, but for donald trump, every day is good friday. it's all about being strung up on the cross. they are coming after me. that's donald trump's mind set. so there's reporting out about donald trump being worried that the supreme court is going to not side with him. donald trump ain't worried about that. donald trump is not worried. it's all part of the show for him. every good or bad piece of news

is more fodder for him. this is the preseason is. this is the warming up. this is testing messaging. this is how i'm going to move here and move there on these issues that i'm going to show just how much of a victim i am. i can really play the part. to the point that should not be overlooked, it matters how the media covers this. it matters how the voters receive this information. and how it's contextualized. it's all being played out but trump to do a number of things. but one very important thing, everything is playing to that one juror who do z going to sit there and go he didn't do it. that's a big part of the narrative that you see. it's not a problem for trump to get on the plane and go where he

needs to go to campaign and then come back to a court hearing and campaign there as well. that's all part of the same scene for him. >> especially because it's about that jury, i agree, it's als about the folks who are going to be watching and listening. i want to read you some of what "the new york times" reported. trump is among the most disciplined, undies plined political figures in modern u.s. history. for his self-inflicted wounds and public comments and erratic posts, he's fairly rigid in delivering a message the of grievance and victimization to his followers. he's aimed to turn circumstances he's furious about into a high stakes drama that he can direct as he and his campaign navigate a thicket of legal proceedings in the coming months. there's a reason people were concerned about broadcasting his various trials. he would have a microphone. he would turn legal proceedings

into political side show. is this just another way for him to do that? >> yeah, it is. i think it presents a relate conundrum for the press. and how to appropriately and rattly cover this. you have a lot of people clambering you want to open the federal courts to cameras. that's a dicey proposition. because it's not so much about donald trump is going to jump across the table as we saw recently with one defendant who was reproached by the judge and he didn't like it. but it's the mug shot. it's donald trump sitting here like this. and donald trump having this sour scoured look on his face. that is just as important a narrative for him as any action. it's not always about the screaming and the shouting. it's what i can do with the

looks on my face. and the deep sighs. so all of this becomes a problem for how these cases are going to be covered. donald trump knows that already. so all he's waiting for is you tell me how you're going to cover me, and i'll tell you what kind of performance i'm going to give you. this is about the folks i know i can tap into with a sigh, a look like i'm a victim.ng it seem >> there are the sighs and the looks and there's also the argumentsis legal team is making in the way of side shows this is breaking today from nbc news. quote, attorys for former president trump are once again pushing to delay his federal election interference trial telling a judge that special counsel jack smith and federal prosecutors should be held in contempt for fiing motns ahead ofeadlines and continuing to provide trump's team discovery. the trump team who h argued the trial should be delayed until 2026 filed a motion

thursday calling for the special koum to be held in cob tempt for what they called an unlawful production of discovery accusing prosecutors of partisan-driven misconduct. any merit here? >> let's just step back for a moment and just take a focus on what they are arguing. a defendant is arguing that they are upset that they are getting too much discovery too soon. what defendant in the world has ever made that argument? i mean, this is a motion that is sort of dead on arrival, and it's written for an audience out of the courtroom. very much like a lot of the legal briefs that we have seen from donald trump's team. it is filled with rhetoric not aimed at the judges in the courtroom.

this is really a preposterous legal argument. you know that they are trying to satisfy their client. they are playing to their base, as we have talked about using theses legal proceedings to get messages out in terms of the political realm, but as a legal matter, the idea that you're getting discovery too soon is going to be something that the judge says is flabber gasting as an issue. and the idea that you're going to seek a contempt order. usually the parties on both sides only do that words truly, really trly egregious conduct. so this is dead on arrival. >> andrew weisman, thank you for spending time with us. the latest episode of andrew's podcast is out now. it's on the supreme court's role in his cases. mike sl going sto stick with me. up next, a look at the biden

campaign's ad with a warning about the growing extreist nusmt this country. do not go anywhere. we'll be right back. we'll be rieght back to duckduckgo on all your devie

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today ahead of the upcoming anniversary of the january 6th insurrection, president biden has released his first ad of the new year highlighting the stakes of the 2024 election for american democracy. take a look. >> i have made the preservation of democracy a central issue of my presidency.

i believe in free and fair elections and the right to vote fairly and have your vote count. there's something dangerous happening in america. there's an extremist movement that does not share the believes of our democracy. all of us are being asked right now, what will we do to maintain our democracy? history is watching. the world is watching. most importantly, our children and grandchildren will hold us responsible. >> tomorrow the president will av to the pennsylvania give a speech tied to the anniversary of the day the erican history had a peaceful sf of power ended. the stakes couldn't be higher as disinformation around the january 6th insurrection continues to grow. "the washington post" is out today with a new poll that found that 25% of americans believe the false conspiracy theory that the insurrection was instigated by the fbi. joining me and michael is simone

sanders townsend. what did you make of that ad? >> i thought the ad was powerful. i frankly thought the ad is important. every campaign has a theory. in 2016 bernie sanders theory for his campaign was we live in a rigged economy. in 2020 joe biden's theory was the battle of the soul of the nation. his theory of the case for 2024 and reelection campaign seems to be democracy and he's running to preserve democracy. because democracy is on the line, that is why it's important that i step up. so i think this is the opening for 2024. i know that on the internet and sometimes only hosts like to say all joe biden does is talk about trump. but he doesn't. all he does, they do is they have talked a lot about the

economy and their achievements, not as much about donald trump and the threat. so this, i think we're going to see the president start to lay the groundwork for what the calling card for the 2024 campaign is going to be with specifics. and if they are talking about democracy, this fall into that bucket. abortion, gun safety, our dren, health care, all of these different things. so ihi it's a message that has legs. . >> democracy becomes a larger framework. and it also becomes something that motivates a number of voters in the 2022 midterms. 68% of voters said they believed that u.s. democracy was under threat. so is there are those voter who is will be motivated by this question. we also know there are voter who is are motivated because they like the authoritarianism that donald trump is selling. there's also a subset of voters that may not think they are motivated by this issue. and i wonder if you believe that

ad, if the speech that we're going to hear from president biden tomorrow has the potential to persuade and energize even those voter who is they say it isn't their top concern. >> i like to see the cross tabs or the follow-up question on the 16%. who is that threat to democracy? if 68% of the people believe democracy is under a threat, then i want to ask the next question. what is the threat? who is causing the threat? because that's what joe biden is trying to get to. i think it's a very strong opening ad. it pulls at the right heart strings. if you have some blood coursing through your veins for the country, if you are repulsed by what happened on january 6th, not from a partisan perspective, but an american perspective. so i think for joe biden, this is ab opportunity to begin to as

simone just noted, open that door to have that opening sal vo around the country. and the state of things right now, to your question whether or not it's going to reach all the various demographics, if if you will, thoses who are let's go and do this fight against those who hurt democracy versus those who want to sit back, that's what tomorrow is about. my hope is that he elevates the tvrgs conversation for them. that 28 or 30% that is sitting out there that's all up in trump, they are all up in trump. so set that aside. what we want to focus on are those folks who just make the excuse, i like his policies. i'm kind of feeling that, but i don't like the behavior. you know what, there are no policies. it's all behavior.

so i think he has to make that argument in a way that elevates the conversation for them. that's why he's going to pennsylvania. that's why he's doing it on january 6th. and i think it's important for people to understandround the january 6th anniversary for them to understand the context of what this campaign should be about. >> i want to go back to that "washington post" poll we're talking about a quarter of americans saying they believe that the fbi was responsible for what happened on january 6th. what did you think? >> the face i just made is the face that i made when i saw that. i think that is due to a lot. i watch january 6th unfold on television as many people did. it was after i left. we were evacuated because of a bomb threat. come to find out the bombs outside of the democratic national committee were alive. this was real. but if you recall, it took well over a year and a half before we

had a congress who was willing to tell the american people that story and thread the needle together in a way that frankly is why donald trump and many of his allies are facing are on the cusp of accountability for their role in the january 6th insurrection. so there's a deep misinformation and disinformation machine at play here within the united states, and i think that that number to me says that there is still more work to do in terms of communicating the truth. >> which is even if you were donald trump, you still have the numbers. >> it's way measure the getting rid of trump. trump is not the problem. he's just one of the issues. he's not the problem. the entirety of the republican party apparatus are unwilling to push donald trump and hold him to account, those folks will still be around when donald trump is gone. >> a quick break.

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back with michael is and simone. i want to draw your attention to this recent filing from jack smith about donald trump. they write, throughout this litigation and in his public comments, they have sought to blame others for the attack on the capitol. including law enforcement, military forces, unidentified secret agents and foreign influence. the defendant should be proclud colluded from introducing the disinformation he has propagated

outside of it. the defendant also appears poised to blame undercover agents, informants or human sources for the violence at the capitol. talk about the damage that the ex-president is doing here to democracy. >> it is palpable. donald trump took the oath of office, just like every president did before him. and in that oath, he swore to protect and defend the united states constitution. section 3 of the 14th amendment says anyone who has engaged in insurrection or participated in rebellion or aided those who should not be able to sit in that seat serve as officer of the united states. 1,447 days after donald trump took that oath, supporters of him stormed the united states capitol in the exact same spot where he and every president before hum and after him had

stood to take that oath of office. and they had flags bearing his name. they used those flags to weaponize and violence against officers. and that is what we are talking about. and they stood at the capitol until donald trump told them to go home. america cannot and should not be gas lit. that's why it's so important that people continue to tell the truth. yes, the biden campaign talk about the economy and all the factories that's happening in the united states right now. talk about all the work that you have done. folks just cannot stare people to the polls about donald trump. let's be clear. what happened on january 6th was a taking up arms against the united states government and every single one of them got to go home after. >> it is very clear how democrats will run and they'll run on democracy and they'll talk about things like infrastructure and lowering the prices of prescription drugs and

extreme overreach on abortion rights. what then becomes the republican contrast? how then, do you run against democracy? what then does the contrast that the republicans try to draw look like? >> no. you don't run against democracy directly. you run against the idea that a pluralistic democracy is all about, that this pluralistic republic so then you run against critical race theory. you run against transgender children, you run against abortion. you run against those things -- those things that touch culturally on people. what is interesting is all those folks who get all fired up about those types of issues don't look to their right or their left inside their own homes or communities to realize that

their relatives are themselves embracing the cultural diversity and that their grandchildren, for example, are up in their rooms watching african-american history on their phone or reading about it, learning about it. so this idea that you're going to strip that out and away from people is nonsense, but dang it, we're going to try and that's the point. we're going to try because the political upside is if i get people fired up enough, and we've already seen this playbook play out, right? if i get you fired up enough on critical race theory i can make you the governor of virginia. if i get you fired up enough on transgenderism, i can win this seat for you in the state legislature. so that's -- that's the sort of pick and piecemeal approach that's going to be in play. it's not going to be a whole frontal necessarily. it will at times, but it's going to be and how they leverage those broader narratives that

biden's going to talk about as you just referenced against him even down to the economy. despite all of the good news, yeah, inflation is down 3%, but do you remember wnt was 10? that's how you should feel. >> michael steele, simone sanders, we're already spending a lot of time together and "the weekend" premieres saturday january 13th at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. we'll take a quick break and when we come back an update on the shooting in iowa today, one of the first school shootings of the new year. that story is next. w year that story is next 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪) ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) -awww.

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a shooting at perry high school in iowa this morning left one sixth grade student dead and five people injureded. one of the injured currently in critical condition. the shooter was found dead on the scene by police from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. it was the school district's first day back from winter break. in a briefing just moments ago law enforcement officials reported that the shooter was a 17-year-old student at perry high school. the investigation remains ongoing. the first day of school there over before it even began. with all of the schools district to remain closed tomorrow, as well. comes less than two weeks before the state is set to hold its 2024 republican caucuses. next for us, an explosive new report out from house democrats about just how much donald trump's businesses were profiting while he was in the

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if you had evidence that joe biden was linkeded to hunter biden's business deals in a way that is illegal we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> i see the evidence differently. i think that's why we need to have the votes and have the debates and have the hearings. >> have you seen direct evidence related to the president? because that is what we have not heard. >> we have to connect the dots. >> there has not been produced a smoking gun. >> we've never claimed that we have direct money going to the president. >> hi, again, everyone.

it is 5:00 in washington, d.c., i'm alicia menendez in for nicole wallace. the republicans have said it themselves there is no evidence of joe biden having to do with business dealings and yet they're continuing their baseless impeachment inquiry into him, meanwhile, as that partisan effort continues the report has been published that shows actual proof of biden's predecessor making nearly $8 million from foreign governments during his presidency. a brand-new 156-page report out today by democrats on the house oversight committee finds at least 20 countries spent money at trump's hotels and properties including trump tower in new york and his hotels in las vegas and d.c. the committee's ranking member congressman jamie raskin writing in the report, quote, by elevating the policy priorities of corrupt foreign powers over the american public interest, former president trump violated

the clear commands of the constitution and the careful precedent set by and observed by every previous commander in chief. raskin made sure to point out this is just a small glimpse of dealings of the ex president and his company. democrats only received information on four of trump's sinesses out of more than 500 that he has had. the report says it is true that $7.8 million is almost certainly a fraction of trump's harvest of unlawful foreign state money. this figure itself is a scandal and a decisive spur to action and adds, critically, even this subset of documents reveals a stunning web of millions of dollars in payments made by foreign governments and their agents directly to trump-owned businesses while president trump was in the white house. these pages were made while these governments were promoting specific foreign policy goals with the trump administration and even at times with president trump himself, and as they were requesting specific actions from the united states to advance their own national policy

objectives. eric trump, the former president's son called out the report and said that the profits were voluntarily donated to the u.s. treasury. to that, oversight democrats say the ex-president still violated the foreign emoluments clause of the constitution which bans any revenue from foreign governments and that is where we start today with a member of the house oversight committee, democratic congressman jasmine crocket of texas here with me at the table and also joining us, former congressman from florida, david joly and senior editor of senior opinion and msnbc political analyst tim o'brien. it is good to see you all. representative crocket, walk us through the findings. >> so what i want the american people first to understand is that this isn't a knee-jerk reaction to the sham impeachment inquiry that we're dealing with. this is something that started seven years ago and elija cummings was the ranking member and he's the one that started this because he did have concerns because any other president would divest themselves of their interest,

but trump refused to do so. we started seven years ago and people are saying why are we just now talking about it now? like trump, what trump likes to do has fought this in court for years and years and years. it wasn't until september of '22 that he entered into a settlement agreement and in that settlement agreement his accounting firm was supposed to hand over documentation. so from september until basically january we were starting to get some documents and those few documents revealed the information that you just gave and these are all conservative estimates. the problem that we have is that in january of 2023, comer swore in as the chair of the committee and comer said there is no need to comply anymore, let's dismiss this all, be on strucking our ability to know just how deep it went with trump and of that figure that you've given i can tell you that almost $6 million of that money specifically was money from china. >> talk to me about the china piece of it.

>> so when we start talking about china think about where we are in this country right now. we have a sitting u.s. president that is trying to get a package through that will help our friends in the middle east, those struggling in gaza as well as israel. he's also talking about money that needs to go to the ukrainians as well as money to taiwan. so when we think about it, what is the money for taiwan for? it's because china has made it clear that they actually want to go into taiwan and invade them. we also don't know about the money as it relates to russia. that's information that we didn't get. we know that he has businesses in russia, but we didn't get the information about the money. so when we're getting the obstruction from the republicans not wanting to help the ukrainians, not wanting to help the taiwanese, we have to wonder if they are getting their signal from trump and trump is giving the signal because of all of the money that he's got not to mention the overlap as it relates to various trademarks. it became clear that there are

disclosures that trump did not give when he was sitting in the oval office that he's now giving, now that he's running in '23. we just now learned that while he was in office he received trademarks from the chinese government at the same time that they're somehow checking into his hotels and things like that, and to be clear also for the american people, it's not a strict prohibition. the prohibition says yeah, you can't just do it, but if you are going to try to do it, you at least have to come to congress and let congress make the ultimate decision. he chose not to do that so there was another option, and the fact that he decided not to makes it only look like more shady trump business. >> david jolly, let's stick on that last point. the report is titled white house for sale. there is a danger of having a president who never cuts ties with his business, in addition to a president who does not believe as representative crocket just laid out, that the rules apply to him. >> that's right. donald trump is dirty.

we know that. he's shady. it's one thing to be dirty in your private businesses and that gives you 34 indictments in manhattan ask a judgement and civil suit brought by letitia james, but when you're president of the united states and you are dealing with business interest overseas there are real security questions and not just about u.s. and national security when we see him invite the head of the russian intel officer into the oval office, but also about his day to day decision making and this report is so critical because we get to re-visit some of the decisions now that donald trump has made. consider his efforts to weaken nato while he's trying to do business in russia and get personal loans from russia. consider when he pulls u.s. troops out of northern syria, when turkey wants to demolish and murder the kurds and the trump property licensed in turkey. sure, area ed kushner got $2 34i8 one and you know what else

donald trump did, he sold millions of there ares of weapons when did democrats on the hill said please don't do this. it's one thing to be dirty in your business, but when you're president of the united states and you're compromising the interest of the u.s. national security because you have your own personal interest on the line, it is why donald trump is a danger to the country and why he shouldn't return to the white house. >> you know donald trump's business strategy is his business dealings better than almost anyone. anything here that surprised you? >> i think it's always useful, alicia, to get loathing on the issue. i think we've known since trump came into the white house that he offered an unprecedented set of problems because no other president had entered the oval office with this huge yarn of business dealings at home and abroad like trump had, and that was clearly beyond the initial expectations and the framers of the constitution that you would wind up with an individual like this in the white house. nonetheless, they were well

aware at the time that presidents could be bribed and that's why the emoluments clause exists in the constitution. it precludes presidents from accepting money, gifts or any other financially rewarding material from a foreign power without consulting congress first. as the house government -- as the oversight pointed out, trump didn't consult congress on any of his business dealings and that made him a national security threat and while report is backward looking in terms of pegging dollar amounts to trump and his activities while he was in the white house this remains a problem for him if he goes to the white house for a second time. he's a national security threat and he's also a threat to the foundations of good government because it's a non-partisan issue and we shouldn't have any public official who is beholden to a foreign power in any way financially because inevitably that will shape their decisions

against public policy and trump is a grand mal about why this is a problem. in terms of the laws themselves don't adequately accommodate the law that donald trump resents to american voters, who heads of government. >> representative crocker, i appreciate the fact that this is in no way a reaction to republicans' efforts to impeach president biden, to go after hunter biden. that said, we talk a lot about the hypocrisy, the contrast here of their trying to investigate something in search of evidence. they don't have actually have evidence, when in fact, a member of their own party and putting the hypocrisy of this aside, spending time, resources, energy, trying to change something that does not exist and then actively blocking an

investigation into something that might actually be illegal activity? >> i think it tells you who the republicans are, and i need people to start believing them as we see how they're aking. we have obstructionists that are seeking to be the party of law and order when it's just the opposite and to be clear, donald trump is a walking constitutional crisis. i know that there's been a lot of talk about whether or not he should be allowed on the ballot because of the insurrection and as we look at the vol asian of the e mol ups clause, i want it to be clear that democrats such as former ranking member elijah cummings didn't say on day one, you know what? we're just going to go ahead and say we'll impeach him and we'll figure it out later. what he did, he was very methodical and he understood what when you go after a sitting president, whether it's your party or another party, you have

to come with evidence, and that was done with emoluments back seven years ago and even now we're just getting some of the information. you contrast that with what we see the republicans doing. it's simply a matter of them bending the knee, again, to trump. it is the cult-like mental they we see that is becoming pervasive in this country when they say that he's our ruler. it doesn't matter what hoo does. he can violate the law, we can just ignore it. we have never accepted this from anybody else and the only reason we're facing a crisis right now. he wants to act like the constitution doesn't apply to him any wants to be in this country, then he needs to abide by our laws at getting into the white house, i agree, this should be a bipartisan issue and we need to make sure we put up

essential safeguards because who can enforce what or how. >> your takeaway and greet and flon flikt interest, undon'tedly, and he hines up as two escapee from prison and the quickest way to trump's heart has been plopping a big bag of cash on his desk and that will harden overseas who are seeking geopolitical and economic advantages over the u.s. we have talked about the dangers retroactively and talk to me about the danger that could be on the horizon? >> well, vladimir putin is conducting a war in ukraine. there is a conflict in gaza. do we ever believe in any of those instances that donald trump will be an honest broker of american interests? of national security interests? the interest of voters? the interest of residents in

those two regions? especially if he can be fat in his wallet and do whatever the bidder wants them to do? donald trump had a -- was actively pursuing a real estate investment in moscow while he was campaigning for president in 2016. you know, all of the kind of fog that was trump an agent of russia or not? were people in trump's campaign beholden to russia? all of that, there is a clean little razor here to understand what motivates donald trump and one of them is he is greedy and it doesn't matter the amount of money involved. if he has a free way to get that he'll pursue it. we already know he did that in the oval office once. given the range of geopolitical tensions the u.s. is involved in and facing right now, i don't think you want a steward of the public interest in the white house who can be bought off, and i think that's one of the

strongest lessons in this report. >> because david, you're talking about account ability for what has transpired and you're talking about a trump second term where he would have less guardrails than he did this time, and someone would follow, and clause did not go to the united states congress seeking approval and got away with. that, too, presents a danger. >> alicia, one of the themes of the trump administration is the latency of the instrument of accountability and you can kind of break down all of these issues where he engaged in violations of the constitution and look at the latency of accountability. for instance, january 6th, it's been three years and is justice moving swiftly if it takes three

years? because if justice had moved within a year perhaps we wouldn't be facing the predicament of donald trump returning to the white house, and on the question of emoluments in some of these business dealings as the congresswoman said, it should be a bipartisan issue of outrage by the congress, but if it's not. if it was, they could have moved to impeach him at the time, but they did not. why is there that latency? in some cases just because of human behavior. the department of justice took a long time and our partisanship prohibits this from being a bipartisan issue even though the constitution suggests that it should. i don't know what the remedy is, but i think one of the lessons of some of the most dangerous elements in our current government today from the first trump administration is that lateensy and donald trump knows it and donald trump knows how to use that latency to his advantage and we should fully expect he would use it in a second term. >> congresswoman jasmine

crocket, it's been a busy day for you. violent threats against lawmakers and other public figures now facing a fever pitch. the late of the victims and an arrest in a very high-profile case after a quick break. how florida republicans are trance forming their state into the land of disinformation. we'll tell you about new, forts under way to see how schools teach slavery and a dangerous, debunked lie about vaccines being pusheded by the state's top doctor and we'll continue to look ahead to president biden's campaign speech in valley forge on the eve of the anniversary of the january 6th insurrection with our good friend eddie glow who was with the president yesterday. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. do not go anywhere. break. do not go anywhere ive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com.

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an arrest, more mass evacuations and yet another s.w.a.t. called to add to the wave of threats facing public officials across this country. eric swalwell says he. his family were targeted by a series of threatening voice mails. the justice department says a florida man arrested this week left five messages last month a congressional office in washington. we now to be swalwell's. the threats to, quote, come after you and kill you and to, quote, come and kill your children. for the second day in a row state government buildings were evacuated today after receiving bomb threats this time in multiple builds across mississippi at a courthouse in little rock, arkansas and a courthouse in daytona beach, florida and just one day after six state capitol com mrkses were evacuated and searched,

after each receiving bomb threats. the latest victim of ago unsettling trendhis week, illegal and dangerous swatting calls targeting political figures. sterling said we should refuse to allow this to be our new normal after someone falsely reported a shooting to police at his home last night. joining our conversation, former assistant director for the fbi frank figliuzzi. high-profile trials increasingly inflammatory rhetoric from the leading gop candidate, is this what we are going to see? should we expect more of this? why are we seeing such a rash of this just in the past few days? >> the numbers are, indeed, on the rise. it's not just you if you think the numbers are climbing. they are climbing. the data is there, in pack, the fbi about six months ago opened up a national database through the ncic system to track

specifically swat, the so-called swatting incidents where someone tries to get the s.w.a.t. team to respond to your house because they don't like you, they want to mess with you and it's that serious that the fbi has gotten involved in tracking the numbers because otherwise the police departments may not connect the dotses and this same number did this earlier over here and then you have very sophisticated technology being misused right now. ai can allow callers to anonymize themselves and change the phone number to make it look like it's coming from another country in the world. that increases the odds that you will get caught doing this, if you are sitting there cowardly, not liking what someone says and thinking you'll have fun and mess with them, and you'll eventually get caught and charged and i will add this, by the way. it's a deadly thing. people have died as a result of s.w.a.t.ing incidents and there was a man in tennessee who had a heart attack because the

s.w.a.t. team was showing up at his house as a response to the s.w.a.t.ing call and a man in wichita, kansas was shot by the responding police officer. he shot the homeowner mistakenly during a s.w.a.t. response. with regard to the fact that our society is in a place right now where you think you should do if you would disagree with someone politically or their opinion about something is to turn to violence and violent threats, not only are you a coward, but you're really just a sheep that's responding to the trump maga cult call to think that everybody who doesn't think like you is evil, and that you can do this to them and their family and there are consequences as we've learned in the case of congressman eric swalwell. there is nothing patriotic about threatening to kill a u.s. congressman and his kids because you disagree with them. >> right. david jolly, in a statement last night congressman jolly said much the same, quote, there is

no place in america for threats of political violence. we must always resolve our differences at the ballot box and yet -- and yet, david jolly, this where we find ourselves. >> it is, and many people can easily remember when gabby giffords and 18 other people were shot in tucson for having a congress person on your corner, vent and i think that is the real danger, right? fortunately, we are talking about a threat to swalwell and his children. we're not talking about an actual incident, but who knows the next time and the next member of congress if there is actually an incident and this is where there is a requirement on our political leaders to de-escalate. they must, and, look, political violence existed before donald trump, but donald trump in many ways has mainstreamed it. the entire insurrection on january 6th was about using political violence to stop the peaceful transfer of power. that is a contribution of trump's leadership to violence

in our politics that translates into our political discourse and so we always have to be careful of assigning blame to political leaders, but the one thing we know we can do is expect them to de-escalate and denounces escalation of violence. you can hear that. the democratic leadership consistently tries to de-escalate and denounce the violence and many in the republican party, but not the current leader of the party. he's fine with using intimidation when he sends out names on his social media account and he's fine with it and with january 6th and that's what we can expect more of as the front-runner returns in november. >> i want to get your reaction to the bomb threats in state buildings today, the second consecutive day in a row. what do you think is happening here? >> one has to wonder whether there is some organization behind this. it being just be a couple of people who are using technology

to anonymize, and it is the political environment and someone will be taken off the ballot as we've seen with regard to the supreme court buildings around the various states, but also that there are disagreements with regard to how to proceed on certain legislation that's really controversial in various states and again, instead of engaging and voting and volunteering or writing letters, you call in a bomb threat. so that's where we are now. people sitting back. it's the -- it's the use of technology, the anonymity they think they have, but i have to keep hammering this. consequences will come. these people will get caught. they will be arrested and the federal agencies are heavily involved in looking at this from a national threat picture. >> david jolly, i don't know if you saw this in an interview

this week, colorado secretary of state talkeded about the s.w.a.t.ing call that her maine counterpart received after she decided trump wasn't eligible to be on the ballot and he knew what he posted on the social media. the effect here is it's supposed to be chilling. there is the danger to the individual and the danger to institutions and also just the hope that someone won't move forward with doing the right thing because they know that this violence is a possibility. >> that's right. it's a tactic of intimidation and it's a dangerous one as frank mentioned and we should say it happens on both sides of the aisle. senator rick scott, i believe, last week was a victim of s.w.a.t.ing, as well, but what is unique in the situation that you just identified, and i think it is much more relevant is that donald trump often sens out name on social media to people who take action on that, and

januaryth, if you can take prosecutors that he identifies on christmas holidays or thanksgiving holidays and says these people are enemies and you would be a devout follower of donald trump and perhaps you act on that, and so in cases where a correlation being made public and can we have it, and wrap the finger trips of donald trump himself. i agree with frank, someone on the s.w.a.t.ing issue needs to be arrested and go to prison and that should be a national score to put a stop, and i'm afraid it will continue. >> frank figliuzzi, thank you for your time. david, you are sticking with me. when we return, republicans are not shy about pushing disinformation and what they're

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very quickly on friday to come down to florida to spew this hoax. she's here to try to push a fake narrative about what florida did. >> that was ron desantis who knows a thing or two about false narratives back in july attacking the vice president for speaking out against florida

schools that teaching slavery was beneficial. pushing a bill mandating teaching a highly misleading narrative, one of the most heinous perio of american history in florida naming it after the first black vice pre kamala harris, truth and slavery teaching act requires instruct history of afcan-ameri comprehensive account of the sociopolitical circumstances surrounding slavery including which political party supported slavery by adopting post-slavery tenets as part of their platform, et cetera. joining us now princeton university professor and distinguished political scholar eddie gloud, and eddie, ron desantis and republicans in florida can't go any lower they do this. >> they do, right? this is the lost cause stuff. this is kind of the second

iteration of the lost cause where they'll tell a story about slavery, but what is so fascinating about this, alicia, is that it is so dumb, right? i could easily respond to. i could tell the story of the founding of the founding of the democratic party in 1828 and i can tell the founding of the republican party in 1854, and i can tell what happened with fdr and what happened with johnson and what happened with ronald reagan in 1980. i can tell that stuff, but it doesn't matter because it's not about the facts. they just want to own liberals, and so i think it's important for us to a, call for what it is, a deep seeded ignorance and b, for call it for what it is, a deep-seeded cynical play and we shouldn't play that game even though i'm not quite a liberal. so important and a good one.s david, i want you to read some he speech, and this is from eice president, this is the objected to, quote, adultsno

what slavery really involved. it involves rape, it involves torture and taking a baby from its mother and depriving people of the humanity of the world and subjecting people to the requirement that they would think of themselves as less than human. how is it that anyone could suggest that in the midst of these atrocities that there is any benefit to being sub jugated to this. there is a deeper rooted call that they are offering, right? it is -- it is by design that they are putting race and slavery at the center of their argument. >> yeah. my good friend eddie glaude is more of a gentleman than i am. let me opine, it is a dirty, ugly, despicable stunt by florida republicans whose chair

is under criminal investigation for rape and whose governor is about to have to drop out of the presidential race because the culture wars that he launched in the state of florida simply aren't going to get him to the white house, and he will have to deal with that disappointment. at its root is what it means for children in the state of florida and students because it is our children, the children of my wife and i who will not be allowed in the state of florida to be taught that slavery and systemic racism has contributed to economic inequality in the united states. that's prohibited now in the state of florida, so it will be up to my wife and i to make sure that our children actually learn the truth about the history of race and the economy in the united states. under ron desantis' leadership and the republican party who controls the super majority in the legislature, they continue to use race as a political tool and they do so in ugly and despicable ways, and i know eddie would say that over a drink and he might not say it now, but i will. >> david, there's this piece of

what's coming out of florida, but it's coupled by this, and i think when you look at it next to this next story it changes the contours a little which is this is a reporting from the washington post about comments by florida's surgeon general. the top health official calls for a halt to mrna coronavirus vaccines containing that it could contaminate dna, a call debunked by federal officials and vaccine companies. joseph announced as a state bulletin comes after months of back and forth with federal regulators who have repeatedly rebuked his rhetoric around vaccines. this, the false narratives about slavery being taught in school. when you look at the picture as a whole, how has this nfmation t and when you look at it in its totality, just how dangerous is it? >> the florida surgeon general, again is a whack job and i'll

say that as a resident of florida, but it also is representative of ron desantis' leadership. the flo are da surgeon general is appointed by the governor and ron desantis peck picked someone that denied that of course mas were effective and promoted it in the state of flo are da because the governor appointed him and asked him to do that so the florida chapter is consistent with desantis and the surgeon general. here's the danger to the country, though. ron desantis has taken his surgeon general on the campaign trail because it works in republican politics. imagine that? the governor takes his surgeon general on the campaign trail and if elected to the white house he'll bring his surgeon general with him and he has taken donald trump on public health and magnified it in public health. >> ron desantis and nikki haley who say they're just there in 2028, if this is the vision for

2028, right? if this vision of teaching american history in schools, if this vision of public health is what ron desantis wants to bring to the white house, we often talk about this, the threat is not just donald trump, right? the threat is so much greater and so much lengthier than any one man. >> right. the fact that desantis and nikki haley can present the same views or similar views or adjacent views in ways that seem to be civil doesn't necessarily clean up anything. let me be clear, i want to echo what david just said about the teaching of slifry and i want to talk about this covid thing. over 90,000 floridians are dead. they're not coming back. people are walking past bedrooms that used to be full of people they loved. they're looking at empty chairs at the kitchen table. folks who worked with them. folks they loved aren't coming

back. they couldn't -- they couldn't have shiva with them and funerals with them and they've lost them and they're dealing with those anniversaries and every single year and this man and his whatever surgeon general has the nerve to play politics when people are dead. it's despicable and it's reflective of how sick our politics has become. people are dead, alicia. 90,000 floridians are dead and these fools are playing politics with it. it makes no sense. it's -- it's repulsive, in my view. >> it is repulsive and it is with real consequences. no one is going anywhere. when we return, we will take a look at how president biden will frame his re-election campaign as a battle for democrat see and a fight for the soul of this nation beginning with his speech on january 6th, tomorrow. ■ if you're happy and you know it, then

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getting back to the highly anticipated speech president biden is set to give tomorrow in pennsylvania. he is gearing up for his first campaign event of the year where he will frame the upcoming presidential election as a battle for our democracy. he will use the occasion to mark the upcoming third anniversary of the january 6th attack on the capitol. theen of his message underscored by the new polling of the washington post that a

staggering 25% of the americans believe that attempted to halt the certification of the 2020 election. we are back with eddie any with david. eddie, you were in a meeting with the president just yesterday about this speech. i know that you cannot get into specifics, but i do wonder what you are looking for tomorrow from him? >> well, what i hope -- let me say that i want to honor the privacy of that meeting. i was honored to be a part of it, and i think my comments should be kind of understood or kind of sifted through as a person who was in a meeting with the president just yesterday. i hope that he addresses the existential crisis that we face as a country, that donald trump and his maga republican support constitute an existential threat to the country, and this goes beyond policy, is at the heart of it, to my mind, alicia is the kind of cultural question of who we take ourselves to be, and

there are those who want -- who are clamoring for america to be a certain kind of nation where people who look like me and you know our place and they're longing for a nostalgic view of america as a white nation and they're willing to throw american democracy into the trash bin. to their mind and i'll say this very quickly, in order to save the country, we must destroy american democracy, and i think it's that clear. >> you know, david, you and i talk a lot about the fact that i am not certain that some americans understand what it means to no longer live in a democracy, what that means in their day to day life, that it might sound very esoteric when in reality everything you do throughout the day throughout your life is determined by that fundamental fact. >> yeah. the ability of each of us to participate in self-governance. the remarkable thing about the american experiment is this idea that we can govern ourselves and if we look at the posture of our

presidents, but for donald trump they really have recognized that. there's been this humility when it comes to exercising power and handing it over to their successor. what does it mean in real life and it means that both your vote counts and that the donald trump situation does and perhaps it does, and perhaps it doesn't and there are rights given to political minorities that in the case of donald trump he would like to crush. i think the challenge for joe biden is this is clearly the number one issue to him, and it should be the number one issue to all of us because it is about the furtherance of the country. however, polling shows the protection of democracy simply isn't the top issue that will influence their vote. so joe biden is making a calculation that by using the bully pulpit, and by impressing upon voters the importance of protecting democracy this he'll be able to elevate that issue to a decisive one in november. i don't think he will ignore the other issues from the economy to health care, but he wants to

make this race about democracy itself and he will do that with this speech. >> there is duality, and he has to make the argument about the stakes as they relate to democracy and he also has to outline the accomplishments of the administration and whether that is prescription drugs or the infrastructure package. he will make it as the soul of the campaign and the battle for the soul of the nation and how do you do that when you have a sizeable number of americans who have completely bought into the disinformation that has been sold to them by donald trump and by republicans? >> you know, alicia, sometimes we spend all of our energy trying to convince people who hold certain views that they ought not ought not to hold those views. that we don't spend enough time offering our vision of the country. offering the, an honest assessment of the state of things. so i don't think the president should be concerned about that

25%. i think we should be concerned about building a world where those views have no quarter to breathe. that we should be concerned about convincing all other americans, the 75% who don't believe that nonsense, of the stakes of this particular election. so i come out of a tradition. where the country has, shall we say, fallen short where it comes to racial justice. and there have been many a time over the history of black folk in this country where some have simply said, we've got to give it up. the country won't do right by black folk. then you here these voices that say, no, this is our responsibility. we have to take, we have to put forward a notion of the promise of america. we have to give voice to a notion of freedom, irrespective of what these folk are saying and doing to us. so i don't think the president should be focused on those 25%. i think he should be focused on building a world where these

noxious views have no room to breathe and all of us should be fighting for that world. it seems to me that's where we should be spending our energy. not on these folk who think i don't belong here. >> and there are more of those folks than there are of that quarter who believe that terrible lie. thank you both so much for spending some time with us. we'll sneak in a quick break and we'll be right back. we'll be right back. e

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. some breaking news out of illinois in the last few minutes. the state just became the latest to challenge donald trump's ballot eligibility over section 3 of the 14th amendment. the constitution's insurrection clause. it was filed on behalf of five voters brought by a nonprofit group that has already filed three other challenges. the former president's eligibility in other states. this means that more than a dozen states currently have pending objections as to whether donald trump's name can appear on primary ballots. we'll keep our eye on that. another break for us. we'll be right back. be right ba. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx]

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thank you for spending part of your thursday with us. we are so grateful. i will see you tomorrow. "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> welcome to "the beat." there is new heat on roger stone who infamously pushed the plot to try to get states to steal biden's win. >> we must be prepared to lobby our republican legislatures, send electors to the electoral college, who accurately reflect the president's legitimate victory in their state, which was