from trump or could make things close, it'd be new hampshire rather than iowa. but if there is a rout in iowa, maybe trump puts it away in the granite state, as well. shelby talcott, i'm certain we'll be speaking again soon. safe travels. thank you for joining us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. for the first time in our history, insurrectionists have come to stop the peaceful transfer of power in america. >> millions of people storming the united states. when you talk about insurrection, what they're doing, that's the real deal. that's the real deal. not patriotically and peacefully. >> trump's mob wasn't a peaceful protest. it's a violent assault. >> release the j6 hostages, joe. release them, joe. >> trump's assault on democracy isn't just part of his past. it's what he is promising for the future. >> stay in those voting booths.

you should stay there and watch it. if you see bags of crap coming into the voting areas, you have to stop it. >> the legal path just took trump back to the truth, that i'd won the election and he was a loser. >> we're going to win for the third time. i just don't want the results of the second. >> for me and kamala, our campaign is about america, about you. >> first, they say, "sir, how do you do it? how do you wake up in the morning and put on your pants?" >> look at the authoritarian leaders and dictators trump says he admired. >> president xi of china, strong, smart, tough. putin liked me. i got along. i got along withhussein. i will say, he hung that sucker and he spit in their face. you know, tough guy. >> when he visited the cemetery called dead soldiers suckers and losers. >> john mccain for some reason couldn't get his arm that.

he goes -- >> after all we've been through in our history, independence to civil war. >> the civil war was fascinating, so horrible. i was reading something, and i said, this is something that could have been negotiated. >> i refuse to believe that in 2024, we americans will choose to walk away from what has made us the greatest nation. >> we're being laughed at all over the world. we're a failing nation. >> no, you're a failure as a politician. and a failure in so many other ways. >> more like a disgrace. >> well, a failure and a disgrace. i mean, here's a guy that, again, he's talking about january 6th being peaceful. nothing peaceful about it. calling the rioters peaceful protesters. they go in and beat the hell out of cops, because i guess he just doesn't give a damn about police

officers. he makes fun of prisoners of war while he and his daddy figure out a way to for him to stay home from the war because of bone spurs. he says, you know, i was reading something -- well, first of all, what ivana trump told "vanity fair" is he read hitler's speeches, kept them by the bedside table, but he must have also been reading some confederacy diary, saying that abraham lincoln was a failure because he should have negotiated away slavery and negotiated with the south in the civil war. again, it keeps getting worse. it keeps getting worse. by the way, for the record, donald trump lost 51% to 47%. 306 electoral votes to 232 electoral votes.

as maureen dowd said, mika, this weekend, she said, she wrote, "if people don't know by now that trump tried to overthrow the government he was running on january 6th, if they don't know that the maga fanatics breaking into the capitol, beating up cops and threatening to harm pelosi and hang pence were criminals, not patriots and hostages, as trump calls them, if they don't know that trump created a radical supreme court that is stripping women of their rights, then they don't want to know or they just don't care. but the media must pound on." you know, maureen's column is called "time to conquer hell," and she quoted thomas payne, who said, "these are the times that try men's soul. tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered." that, in this new year, is exactly what americans across the country must do.

they've seen in stark relief there between joe biden, a pro-democracy politician, whether you support all of his views or not, and donald trump, a pro-authoritarian who praises rioters that beat the hell out of cops with american flags that our soldiers and sailors and marines and airmen have taken into battle for hundreds of years. he considers those people patriots. it's about as stark as it can be. >> absolutely. it is important to take a look at the very different messages from president biden and former president trump this past weekend and moving forward. it is a significant week in the presidential race as it intertwines with the legal charges against donald trump. today marks exactly one week until the iowa caucuses, and tomorrow, trump says he will attend an appeals court hearing

on his claim of presidential immunity in the january 6th election interference case. on thursday, trump is expected to appear in court in new york for the closing arguments in the fraud trial against his company, for which new york's attorney general is now seeking a much higher penalty. president biden, meanwhile, today will be in south carolina for a speech about what he sees is a hate-filled agenda from the trump campaign. >> well, at the very church in charleston where church-goers were slain while in bible study. >> right. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. and founder of the conservative website, the bulwark, charlie sykes is with us this morning. >> charlie, i'm so glad you're here today. i'm glad that we started out the

way we did. that the team put together that montage. i'll tell ya, i've been reading, and it's mainly republicans or republican-leaning people, or it's conservatives or so-called moderate conservatives who say, "you know, donald trump, he's terrible. he's just terrible, but" -- >> "i can't vote for joe biden." >> "he's terrible but" -- i'm not mentioning the name. this is "the wall street journal", "the former president knows his enemy's lunacy makes his fans love him, so he encourages those enemies who may end up re-electing him." we saw this in the "wall street journal" this weekend. we saw this in "the new york times" this weekend. again, a name i don't even care to bring up saying, "people may look back and see if donald

trump is actually treated like any other politician who stole nuclear secrets and tried to steal an american election." well, it is going to be our fault? i sit there thinking, charlie, is this what pro-democracy newspapers in bavaria were writing in 1932/1933, going, "you know, if adolf hitler gets to power, it is us pro-democracy newspapers who are to blame for warning people just how dangerous this hitler character may be"? >> yeah, i'm sure the hitler derangement syndrome was a big deal in 1932. >> sure it was. >> you bring this up, and the anti anti-trump media is already going, you know, why are you talking about donald trump? that's what haley is accusing

chris christie of doing. well, donald trump comes out and tells us every single day what he intends to do and who he is. >> yup. >> you know, your montage showed the stark contrast, but the reality is, donald trump right now is so far off the normal spectrum of american politics, that it's been difficult for the last seven years to talk about it. it is going to be difficult for the next year without sounding like we are suffering from trump derangement syndrome. the reality is, donald trump is saying, basically, you think i'm dangerous? hold my beer. this is what i'm going to do. this is what i believe. by the way, joe, i have to say, the least plausible thing that he said over the weekend was that he was actually reading something. >> yeah. >> of course. >> including the history of the civil war. i'd love to know what book it was about the civil war, and i'd be fascinated to hear his deep thoughts about he, how he, donald trump, would have negotiated the civil war. you know, we focus, what, seven

days on nikki haley's gaffe about not being able to say that slavery was the cause of the civil war. >> exactly. >> yet, donald trump basically says, "yeah, maybe we should have negotiated." okay, is that going to be a story for, like, two minutes? this is the challenge of dealing with the guy. >> right. >> the flood of -- it's not just the flood of lies, it is the flood of bizarre, extreme rhetoric, the fact that he is calling the prisoners hostages, the fact that he is now going to, you know, somehow flip the word "insurrection." watch the next week or so as he becomes the champion of genuine american democracy. it'll be a difficult task for all of us, i this, to keep up with the fire hose. >> here's what you were talking about, charlie, the sound bite talking about reading about the civil war, his perverted take on history. take a listen. >> the civil war was so fascinating, so horrible. it was so horrible, but so

fascinating. i don't know. it was just different. i am so attracted to seeing it. so many mistakes were made. see, there was something i think could have been negotiated, to be honest with ya. i think you could have negotiated that. you know, abraham lincoln, of course, if you negotiated it, you probably wouldn't know who abraham lincoln was. >> so here we are, charlie. you have donald trump. there's actually this beautiful parallel, a beautiful parallel with the anti anti-trumpists who are rising again, like the phoenix from the ashes. they're rising again. there's actually a parallel here where donald trump is now blaming abraham lincoln for the civil war. by the way, this is the same guy that said he wanted to terminate the constitution. he wanted to assassinate generals who were insufficiently disloyal to him. he wanted to ban news networks

that were insufficiently loyal to him. we could go down the list. mike pence deserved hanging. how many things could we do? here we have donald trump blaming abraham lincoln for slavery, yet you're exactly right. these people will say, "oh, you know, you should talk about nikki haley for two weeks." >> on a loop. >> someone probably going to finish a distant third in iowa, and talk about it on a loop. but donald trump blames abraham lincoln for the civil war. if you and i talk about it for more than three or four minutes, people who are far more conservative than these clowns that are writing these op-eds in defense of donald trump, then, somehow, that equals trump derangement syndrome. i'm not exactly sure why donald trump gets a free pass on absolutely everything.

>> well, remember that meme back from 2016, you know, "take him seriously but not literally," or whatever. i think it was seriously, not literally. >> something like that. >> the reality is, i think this is part of the rationalization process, like don't pay any attention to what he is saying because it doesn't matter. well, it does matter. >> it does. >> reality matters. this is a man who has already shown a willingness to overthrow a free and fair election. we've seen this. we had a million americans die during covid because of his ignorance. this is a man who, you know, by the way, thinks that magnets don't work if you dropped them into water, and thinks that you can inject bleach into human bodies. you know, are we deranged by pointing out how incredibly stupid all of that is? again, this is part of the challenge. i can see the republican party already making its usual shift, which is to blinker itself, like, we're not going to pay attention to this. we're going to go along with

donald trump no matter what he says. look, joe, joe and mika, we've talked about the transformation of the republican party. but you want to talk about the speed and the trajectory of this, i mean, we are at a moment now that would have been inconceivable january 7th. just over the weekend, watch the way donald trump, the worst aspects of donald trump are being echoed and repeated by other republicans. elise stefanik, number three in the republican hierarchy, goes on the air on "meet the press" and refuses to say she'll certify the election, number one, and actually defends donald trump's use of the term that immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country. that hitlarian rhetoric. every republican would have said they didn't hear it or they would have pushed back against it and said, "look, we are not using that rhetoric." elise stefanik is now channelling the worst of donald trump, and that gives you a sense of just how awful it's become in 2024.

>> well, "the times" had a great rundown of what happened after trump lost, what happened on january 6th, how trump was pushed to the side, and how one by one by one they all folded. now, we're seeing in the media because they want to get close to donald trump, and some media people, i guess, want to have access to him on the campaign trail, these republicans and -- >> can you call them republicans? >> i don't know what you call them, actually, when they're quoting hitler and they're channelling hitler. be that as it may, the transformation, it keeps going. now we're seeing the rise once again, and expect to see it in all the same spots we saw it in 2020, in that campaign, the rise of the anti anti-trump forces. they say, "if you hold donald trump to account for stealing

nuclear secrets, you have trump derangement syndrome." "new york times" columnist actually this sunday going, "oh, but if you read the constitution the way you should, people will look back and say, this is the moment american democracy died." you think about the left-wing radicals doing this. you think about the freaks at the federalist society, those left-wing -- wait, i'm sorry, they're conservative legal scholars, but that judge luttig, who has been at the center of every left-wing, radical, hair-brained pro -- wait a second -- >> nope. >> oh, wait a second, these are constitutional conservatives who are saying this, and, yet, you're seeing op-eds in the "wall street journal" and "the new york times," like, if you actually hold donald trump to account, it'll only make him -- sorry, this is obi-won kenobi,

right? this is the trick, strike me down, constitutionalists, and i, trump, will only become more powerful. no! it's not that way. jamal wrote this this weekend, "in the face of violence, trump refused repeated requests over multiple-hour period that he instruct his violent supporters to disperse and leave the capitol, instead, watched the violent attack unfold on television. not only that, but we found out from his staff that he rewound the most violent parts and watched them over and over again." while even dan scavino was rushing in, begging him. his daughter, ivanka trump, begging him to stop the riots. he refused. reverend al, it says this, "does it threaten the constitutional order to use the clear context of the constitution to hold a

former constitutional officer accountable for his efforts to overturn that order? the answer is no, of course not. there is no rule that says democracies must give endless and unlimited grace to those who use the public trust to conspire for all the world to see against him. voters are free to choose a republican candidate for president. they're free to choose a republican with trump's politics. but if we take the constitution seriously, then trump, by his own actions, should be off the board. what jamel buoy says is that there is this belief that donald trump has a superpower, but in the end, this guy's superpower is just that there are people who believe that he has superpowers. we cannot treat him the way we treat other politics. nikki haley says something really screwed up, refuses to even talk about slavery, and the media talks about that for

weeks. donald trump just blamed abraham lincoln for the civil war because he would not negotiate slavery with the south. what donald trump was saying there was, you know, lincoln should have just let southerns continue to have slaves. because he didn't, abraham lincoln caused the civil war. yet, you watch, these jackasses that write their newsletters, these jackasses that write op-eds in the "wall street journal" and other -- >> cable networks. >> these jackasses on cable networks who say, "you know, it is trump derangement syndrome" -- >> they won't talk about it. >> -- "that is powering donald trump." instead of saying, you know, if a guy wants to be president of the united states and is blaming abraham lincoln for the civil war because lincoln refused to allow slavery to continue, maybe that's something we should focus

on every day, along with all of the other deranged things this lunatic says. >> there is no doubt about it. when you hear donald trump, who was the incitor and participant of the insurrection, saying that lincoln should have negotiated the first insurrection, the civil war, like you can negotiate with people saying, "we demand the right to keep slaves." as one that had forefathers that were slaves, to look at this election, you have the leading candidate saying you could have negotiated that away. well, maybe we can just keep some slaves or have a timeframe on it or whatever but still keep slavery. that's what he is blaming lincoln for not doing. to have another candidate not even bringing slavery up. we are dealing at a time when

they're playing the game of politics as us versus them, whether blacks, jews, latinos. we cannot stand for this. for donald trump to say him reading the civil war books and saying that he could have negotiated or he could see where negotiation was, it reminds me when they asked him his favorite bible scripture. he said, "all of them." ask him what book he read, there was room to deal with the civil war differently, and he'll say, "all the books," because he hasn't read anything, other than this hitler theory of the big lie. throw it out there, blame it on somebody, in hitler's case, the jews, then you can advance your political career. america should not sanction that by voting for this man in iowa or anywhere else. >> yet, no prominent republican calling him out on this. in fact, the iowa caucus one week from today, he has a commanding lead. at this moment, expected to put up such a win, it may force ron desantis out of the race, then

we'll see if nikki haley can have any final stand in new hampshire. it looks like donald trump is on a glide path to the gop nomination, setting up a rematch with president biden. that is someone, president biden, calling out donald trump. we shouldn't look past the president's speech on friday. some of his toughest language yet about his predecessor. recall when biden first took office. he wouldn't say trump's name. he thought we should be moving on as a nation. he has been, and i've reported this, privately, really disappointed, in not just the republican party but in voters, that trump still has this power, still has this hold. it is clear, he and his team say, we have to call it out. he called trump despicable. we played it earlier in the morning, he was talking about how trump not just laughed at some of the january 6th violence but also about the hammer attack to paul pelosi's skull. biden called trump a sick -- was very clear with the next word, what it was meant to be before

he caught himself. joe and mika, we have been talking for months now about the need to draw these contrasts, to lay out the stakes for the american people. we have seen an accelerated version of that from president biden. we saw it on friday at valley forge. we'll hear from him again today in charleston, south carolina, at the site of that racist mass shooting. he is making clear for the american people what we would be getting if donald trump wins again. >> i mean, if you look at the danger this country is facing, joe, like elise stefanik is less shocking. i'm thinking about republican members of the senate, maybe those who haven't really spoken out but you know they don't believe in the things donald trump is saying. definitely republicans in the house. republican party leaders. republican candidates. why won't you stand up? i mean, are you so devoid of any values? do you so want to destroy your party? do you want to distort the meaning of the constitution? do you have any core values?

at some point, do republicans, even those who may not have a stake in this, who can sit in their senate jobs and wait for the next person to come along, shouldn't be republicans be standing up at this point together and saying what is right and reclaiming their party? what more needs to happen with donald trump for them to realize that they all need to do something? >> seven years, eight years, how long have we been saying this? >> joe biden doesn't have to be the number one choice, but i'm thinking america might be. >> how long have we been asking this question, though? you had magazines that came out and had covers talking about being never trump. then they engaged in the most rank anti anti-trumpism. you had other people doing the same. you talk about elise stefanik. we met her. i think one of her first days in congress. >> yeah. >> talked to her and walked away thinking what everybody who

talked to her back then thought, was, "wow, this is a good -- this is a good sign." >> i'm thinking the more seasoned members of congress. >> well, she's -- because she totally abandoned every value she ever had when it came to donald trump. >> yeah. >> and because she ran straight towards the riots, defending the riots, defending the worst aspects of trumpism, she is in a powerful position right now. there are other people like her that are in a powerful position. mike johnson, speaker of the house, points to the bible, "if you want to know how i'm governed, i'm governed by the bible." then he gets to power by what? the big lie. what did jesus say? blessed are the people who actually spread lies and conspiracy? i didn't see that, rev, in the

be attitudes. yet, you have all these people twisted and perverting, in mike johnson's case, the words of the jesus, talking about, i'm governed by jesus, when, in fact, he got to power by the big lie. basically admitted to liz cheney that he knew it was a lie, but he just had to get in donald trump's orbit. you have these people. to answer mika's question, what is it about? it's all about power. we've all been around politicians where they'll sort of move a little this way, move that way, be a little pragmatic here, be compromising here to get power. in donald trump's case, there is no middle ground here. you're either for the continuation of american democracy, or you're for a man who has promised to terminate the constitution, execute generals, ban entire news

networks, and exact revenge. he said, "i will throw my opponents in jail." that is what every one of these republicans who are trying to have it both ways are supporting. these cowards who might as well go back and read pro democracy newspapers apologizing for adolf hitler in the early 1930s. these cowards are a part of this, as well, now. where they're saying, if you speak out against the tyranny of donald trump and what he promises to bring on america, then you are causing the rise of donald trump. >> what would john mccain say? >> that is exactly how fascism started being purported and represented in this country century. silver shirts movement and other movements. now, you have people that are now actually distorting the bible and distorting

christianity as they pay homage to a man that has practiced every divisive, hateful, and in many ways, in my opinion, anti the be attitudes, as you mentioned. there is a scripture, choose this day whom ye shall serve. i think the speaker needs to answer that question. if he is really saying he is this fundamental practicing christian, he needs to answer, who is he really serving, christ or trump, when he is doing the things he is doing as speaker of the house? >> a lot of people, a lot of people i grew up with in churches, including the one that came up to me as i was burying my mom with a casket right behind me, 2 feet behind me. somebody i grew up with who came behind and started yelling at me in the middle of first baptist church pensacola, telling me that donald trump was a man that

jesus put in place, and how dare i, i will not tell you. i will not tell you the brief five-second fire and brimstone sermon i gave her in front of my mother's casket. let me assure you, my mother endorses that message. >> absolutely. >> charlie sykes, we will give you the final word. one week away from iowa. >> you know, we've seen so much cowardice, but we've also seen this, that the thoroughness of the corruption, the number of republicans that decided perhaps they believe these things. while talking about corrupt politicians, we need to take a moment to think about what has happened to the republican voters. this is a republican voter problem as well as a republican leader problem. the fact that donald trump is on the glide path is because 50%, 60% of republicans out there in the world, americans, our neighbors, looked at him and say, "yeah, he is a plausible presidential candidate." yeah, i've been disillusioned.

my soul has been crushed by the cowardice of republican leaders, but it is amazing to watch what republican voters are willing to accept and what they are, in turn, demanding from their political leadership. in many ways, that's the scariest thing of all. >> yeah, you know, the choice is not donald trump or aoc. >> no. >> which is what you used to always hear. oh, it is donald trump or aoc. it is donald trump or this, donald trump or that. >> make it sound like that. >> no, right now, it is donald trump or ron desantis. donald trump or nikki haley. donald trump or chris christie. donald trump or people who share a lot of his political ideology. not really because donald trump has no political ideology. it is only about him. but people that have republican ideology, traditional republican ideology. >> except they were all too scared, except for chris christie, to go after trump. >> i know. i know. the point is, this is not an

either/or, vote right or left. you actually have some people that call themselves conservatives, who are far more conservative than donald trump, that people in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, and other states could vote for. >> the bulwark's charlie sykes, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," why america's top defense official is facing backlash this morning for not disclosing a recent hospitalization, which included time in the icu. we'll have the latest on the condition of secretary lloyd austin and reaction from the white house. plus, president biden on the campaign trail today heading to south carolina where he will continue to warn voters of the threat of another trump presidency. chairman of the dnc, jaime harrison, joins us from south carolina to talk about biden's big campaign push. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis,

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welcome back. secretary of defense lloyd austin was admitted to the intensive care unit of walter reid medical center monday, january 1st, but it was not made public until the following friday. pentagon says the retired army general sought help after experiening severe pain from an elective medical procedure that he had done last month. senior biden administration officials tell n news the pentagon waited three days to tell the whiteouse about austin's hospitalization. e secretary released a statement over the weekend, taking full responsibility for not disclosing his medical condition, saying he understands the concerns about transparency and he, quote, could have done a better job in ensuring the public was appropriately informed. austin is still in the hospital, but the pentagon says he's

resumed his duties friday evening and is recovering well. joining us now, national security and military correspondent courtney kube. what more do we know? there are a lot of questions here about disclosure, and also who was in charge? >> yeah, i mean, the details as we learn, every detail about this incident is more of a head-scratching scenario. so as you said, secretary austen, he was admitted to the hospital on monday, new year's day. a week ago today. we now know that he had some sort of an elective medical procedure about a week earlier, on december 22nd. i required an overnight stay at the hospital at walter reid. he was released on the 23rd. on new year's day, he started having severe pains and was taken to the hospital where he has now been a week, mika. while he was there, he was put into the icu. now, fast forward to last

friday, when all week long, we were told that secretary austin was on leave and no one really had any idea that he was hospitalized all week long. let alone that he was in the icu. in fact, it took us digging to expose that fact, that he was not just in the hospital but that he was in intensive care. now, we still don't know what this elective medical procedure is, and, frankly, we don't know how severe his situation, his medical case was at any point during this hospitalization. what we know is that on tuesday, this is now january 2nd, all of his responsibilities were transferred to deputy secretary of defense kathleen hicks. she was on vacation in puerto rico at the time. she was not told why she was assuming the responsibilities of the secretary until two days later on thursday. according to a defense official, as soon as she was told that, she started making plans to come back to the u.s. but was told, "oh, it is okay, he is going to resume his duties soon so don't

worry about it." we also learned that, in fact, he did not notify, nor anyone on his staff, notify the white house of this. president biden, national security adviser jake sullivan, they didn't find out about this hospitalization until thursday. the reality is, there's a lot more questions than there are answers about this whole situation. we also know, as you know, secretary austin has taken responsibility for not disclosing this publicly to the media. we still haven't heard exactly why it was that the white house wasn't notified. of course, secretary austin is in the nuclear chain of command. the white house, the national military command center all have to know where he is and whether he is accessible at all times in case, you know, heaven forbid, there is some sort of an attack on the united states. >> right. >> or even an attack on washington, d.c., that he needs to be directly involved in the response, in a potential response. what we did learn late last night was that his chief of

staff, kelly magsman, was sick at the time. now, the pentagon is saying that was the reason the white house wasn't notified until thursday. the reality is, that really doesn't pass the smell test. it doesn't make sense that no one else would have notified the white house in three days, mika and joe. >> nbc news national security and military correspondent courtney kube, thank you very much. courtney brings up, if something were to happen, there is some sort of attack on the u.s., you'd need to know where the secretary of defense is and reach him immediately. let's just keep in mind, that's the unthinkable. right now, there are two realities, two hot wars going on that the united states is directly involved with. >> right. and the threat of a much larger regional war breaking out in the middle east. >> lebanon, iran. >> you've got, obviously, what's going on in ukraine. you have the possibility all the time of a war possibly breaking out in china and taiwan. jonathan lemire, we

know secretary austin, like him, value his service to america. this does remind me, though, seems like a lifetime ago when we were on this show and started reading an interview, stan mccrystal, what he was saying about barack obama back in 2010. i just said it then. if you're president of the united states, you're the commander in chief, you've got a chain of command. just like you can't have a runaway general that's mocking the president of the united states to a reporter, you certainly can't have a secretary of defense who goes missing three, our days. >> goes mia. >> it is terrible. i hope the secretary is doing better, hope the general is

doing better. that said, though, he does not have a responsibility to tell the media that he's in the hospital. he does, the chain of command, have a responsibility to tell the president of the united states what's going on. i mean, it's shocking that joe biden didn't know. it is shocking that jake sullivan didn't know. it is shocking that all of these people, that nobody in the white house knew, that have been working in lockstep, whether it is dealing with israel, dealing with ukraine, whether it is dealing with china, whether it is dealing with all the other problems out there. i don't -- i'm just going to say this, i don't see how a giudice a -- guy disappears for three days and doesn't tell the president of the united states, the commander in chief, the white house that he is gone and

continues working in that position. i just don't. i like the secretary. i think secretary austin has done a wonderful job. this is just one of those very clear-cut issues. >> yeah, there is no doubt. it's a bad one. i mean, white house -- i've been reporting on this story for days now, and when secretary austin, one of his subordinates showed up at a white house meeting the end of last week, jake sullivan was confused, like, what is going on? only after that were they informed that the secretary was in the hospital. we're right to underscore the timing here. it comes as the u.s. is ramping up its presence in the red sea, going after the houthis, an air strike called in by the u.s. secretary austin had approved it pre-hospitalization. it is a time of real rising tensions in the middle east. ukraine, as well. we're not clear if congress is going to pass funding to support kyiv. it is stunning. >> jonathan, can i ask you a question? >> yes.

>> can i ask you, do you have it confirmed, is it rock solid confirmed that the secretary of defense did not notify the commander in chief that he was not at his post for three days? is that confirmed? >> it is. >> are we going to hear, "oh, they talked on the side"? are you hearing from the white house that the commander in chief was unaware of the fact that the secretary of defense was not at his post for three days? >> yeah, we and others have reported for days now that president biden did not know. if suddenly another narrative was to be presented, that's not one known to not just reporters but senior white house staff. there is no belief that secretary of defense austin notified president biden about what had happened. now, the two men have spoken. we are told by senior officials that, for now, secretary austin's job is safe. we know that president biden does not like firing people. we know president biden is fond

of secretary austin. we also know president biden is very proud of the continuity, how he's had very little turnover in his senior staff since taking office. in fact, only one cabinet member departure, which is pretty remarkable, heading into his fourth year in office. i think also because this is such a tension time around the globe, there is a sense that this would not be a good time to change leadership at the pentagon. things, of course, could change. there has been an uproar from both republicans but also, we should note, some democrats about the real breakdown in communication here. there has been explanations, that secretary austin is a private man. he doesn't like talking about things regarding his personal life and a health issue like this. that said, it is a breakdown in the chain of command. there will continue to be real questions raised as to what happened, even in for now, and i stress for now, secretary austin's job seems secure. >> yeah, all good points. we'll be following this. president biden, meanwhile, will travel to charleston, south

carolina, later today to deliver a campaign speech at the mother emanuel church, the site of the 2015 mass shooting where an admitted white supremacist murdered nine black parishioners during a bible study. the biden campaign says his speech will note, thes the it is the responsibility of the elected officials to root out the kind of hate that motivated the 2015 shooting. biden is also expected to warn against the trump campaign saying it is fueled by a hate-filled agenda that runs counter to what america is. >> of course, reverend al, you, of course, have republican politicians who get incensed when you talk about white supremacy, some even suggesting there is no such thing, that hs it is made up by the media. >> i think by president biden going back to charleston today, to mother emanuel, underscores

how ludicrous it is to deny white supremacy. the one who killed these nine people at bible study, including the pastor who i knew, the reverend, the shooter said himself, i'm a white supremacist. this wasn't put on him. joe and mika, you did this show from in front of the church days after that. i was there with you. i spoke at two of the funerals. the whole country gripped with the fact that white supremacy was alive and well. for the president to go and underscore that today, i think, is very important. it gives us reason to be concerned about those that try to mainstream that into the american political contest of the year. >> joining us now from south carolina is the chairman of the democratic national committee,

jaime harrison. what are you expecting to hear from the president today, and how important is it that he makes the distinction, he makes the parallel, he makes the direct connection between donald trump and white supremacy? >> well, joe and mika, it is so great to see all of you, reverend al. you know, today's visit for the president is going to be pretty emotional for us in south carolina. if you've ever been to south carolina, you know the significant of mother emanuel church. not just the folks in charleston, but i think to black folks throughout the south. this was a place where church-goers met in secret when black churches were banned throughout the south. it was a place where they came together in 1892 to organize a slave revote. it was also the place where nine beautiful souls were taken away from us, one june 9th in 2015.

this is not a campaign stop. this is really one of those moments in which we're going to see who joe biden is. this is a man with moral clarity. this is also a man that, when there were no cameras, he and dr. biden went to worship with the families and the parishioners at mother emanuel after that massacre. we all know barack obama was there and sung "amazing grace." we don't know that president biden and dr. biden went to worship there. as you know, we may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. he is a man who has seen so much pain, deciding to go and express that there is light in the morning. and so he is going to be here to express freedom. that black folks should be able to go and pray in their church

freely, without having to look around their shoulders, worried about whether or not somebody has come to take away their lives just because of the color of their skin. and so it is going to be an emotional thing for us, mika. i think it'll be emotional for the president, as well, to come back to that church, to come back with those families impacted, to come back to the state of south carolina, and to talk about freedom. >> yeah. >> and the importance of freedom. if anybody knows freedom, black folks in this country understand the struggle. we continue to struggle for freedom in this country, and i think the president will speak to that today. >> chairman harrison, one of the things that came to mind when it was announced he was going back to charleston, to mother emanuel, is i remember in january of 2020, he spoke for our martin luther king breakfast, national action network in washington. he pulled martin luther king iii

and i to the side and said, "this guy, what he did with charlottesville," talking about trump and talking about how some of these good people on both sides, "i think i really am going to run." that's when we first started hearing why he wanted to run, then he did a little while later run. talk about how he has really tried to deal with this issue of race and anti-semitism. charlottesville, they were marching against both blacks and jews, against slamophoislamopho. how is this contrasted with a guy like donald trump, who is now talking coming into this weekend about lincoln could have negotiated the civil war. or a former governor of your state in south carolina that acts like slavery was a central part of what the civil war was about. you're the chairman of the party. the contrast i want you to talk about between the republican candidates and this president. >> well, this is the thing about

joe biden. the contrast is so clear between himself and maga republicans like donald trump and nikki haley. you know, he got into this race because he said we're battling for the soul of the nation. for the soul of the nation. that battle still continues today. when you as governor of south carolina, former governor of south carolina, the reason why secession happened here in the state, the first state to do it, the reason why it happened is because of slavery. it is listed in the articles of succession. you'd think the person who was in the party of lincoln would understand the importance of battle for this nation's soul during the civil war and would celebrate that. instead, talking about negotiating whether or not slavery is right or wrong. joe biden understands very, very clearly what this battle is all about and how core and how central black folks are to this

battle. when you think about everything he has done, the first thing he did even before he became the president of the united states, african-american woman vice president. breaking through that glass ceiling. african-american woman on the supreme court. breaking through that tradition and making sure that voice was represented. so instead of having black folks at the back of the bus, under joe biden, we are driving the bus. that's what is so important right now and why i'm so proud. i'm the second person to be elected chair -- black person to be elected chair of the dnc. third black person to hold this role. it was because of joe biden saying, "let's give this guy a chance. let's this this voice represented in terms of how this party moves forward. "i can go over and over again, how he's done this. this is core and central to who he is. he is not politically poll tested. it is about who joe biden is and what he fights for each and every day, for all of americans,

but specifically so that black americans understand that he sees them, that he hears them, and that he's fighting for them every single day. >> all right. dnc chairman jaime harrison, thank you so much, as always. we greatly appreciate it. jonathan lemire, jaijaime, the chairman and reverend al both talked about charlottesville, talked about how that started, made joe biden understand that he needed to run in 2020. look at what is going to be happening in charleston, south carolina, today. there are tragic echoes of charlottesville in what happened here in 2015. you look also at what donald trump said about the civil war. we flashed up a headline that said, you know, "trump says lincoln could have avoided civil war." historians disagree.

again, it's just such -- >> come on. >> -- lunacy. you might as well have, like, trump says that abraham lincoln was a zombie martian. historians disagree. i mean, there's just no suggestion, short of allowing slavery to continue in the south, and that could happen, but, again, it shows what is at stake here. donald trump, i don't know if he is even trying to rewrite history, seems to be suggesting america would have been better off with slavery continuing. >> trump also said over the weekend that had he run against abraham lincoln, he would have beaten him by 30 points. we can assume historians would disagree with that, too. this is an animating principle for joe biden. this is why he ran in 2020, what happened in charlottesville. he talks about that frequently. we know he connected that extremism, the hateful rhetoric and, at times violence, with what donald trump has unearthed for this country. that he has given license to a lot of this anger and racism and the worst of us.

that is connected to trump being a danger to democracy, which we have heard from the president throughout his time in office, and then again friday in valley forge. we'll hear a variation of that again today. south carolina, this is a political stop because south carolina is the first democratic primary with the new calendar. it's also a place where president biden is really going to try to hone his pitch to black voters again. polling suggests his support there has really slipped. perhaps one of his top allies, congressman jim clyburn, who, of course, it was his endorsement back in 2020 that opened the door for biden's nomination. clyburn gave an interview over the weekend where he acknowledged he is, quote, very concerned about president biden's standing with black voters. he went on to say, though he thinks the president has done a good job, quote, "my problem is that we have not been able to break through the maga wall in order to get to people exactly what this president has done." i think even joe biden's staunchest supporters will

acknowledge, there has been a communication breakdown. his team and the president himself have struggled selling his accomplishments. that said, he was clear-eyed and forceful on friday. i suspect we'll hear more of the same today, reverend al. this is a demographic, voters of color, particularly black voters, he can't afford to lose. >> he can't afford not only to lose them, he can't afford a low turnout. i think that just as he came to south carolina in the primaries when he finally got in the race, and they energized his campaign after he did not do well in iowa and new hampshire, and clyburn endorsed him and he went to the head of the class, so to speak, i think that that can happen today when he reminds the nation and black voters what white supremacy can do. when you have people soft on that that take back the white house, that it could lead to. >> all right. still ahead, we are going to lighten things up on, unless you

are an eagles fan, then you're not, espn's pablo torre joins us with a look at the nfl playoff picture which is now set. "morning joe" will be right back. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ get over here kids. only pay for what you need. time for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now.

beautiful shot of new york city as the sun comes up over the big apple. forer president donald trump says he will attend an appeals court hearing on his claim of presidential immunity tomorrow. trump's lawyers will present oral arguments been a three-judge panel that the former president is protected from federal charges that he illegally tried to overturn the 2020 election. judge tanya chutkan, the judge overseeing the election interference case, initially rejected that claim, but last month put a hold on the trial while the trump team moves forward with an appeal. last week, trump's team said special counsel jack smith and federal prosecutors should be held in contempt because they continued working while the case is on hold. >> he's going to lose that, and it's unusual that he is going there. if you're wondering why he is going there and to other trials, it is because it is his best campaign move. republicans love that he commits

fraud. republicans love that he steals nuclear secrets. and i have no direct evidence of that other than looking at his poll numbers when it comes out that he's actually committed fraud. and when they find out he's stolen nuclear secrets, his numbers go up. >> right. that's why he is showing up at that one. for this next one, he is showing up because this is about his bottom line. new york attorney general is now seeking $370 million as a penalty against donald trump and his company, just slightly up from the last request. letitia james had originally asked for $250 million when the civil fraud lawsuit was filed in 2022. according to court documents, the new request takes into account trump's profits from deals involving the old post office hotel lease in washington, d.c., as well as the

ferry point golf course in new york, and the interest allegedly saved through fraud. james is accusing the trump organization of misleading lenders and insurance companies by inflating trump's net worth. the former president denies any wrongdoing, although the judge has already decided he did a lot wrong in terms of fraud, that he is a fraud. >> fraud, yeah. >> closing arguments are scheduled for thursday. trump is expected to appear in court for that to find out how much he has to pay for what he's already been found -- >> for his sake, i hope it is, like, $25.75. i mean, he does not have that money. >> she's asking for a lot. wonder what happens if she gets it. >> i don't know how he pays it. i don't think he is capable. i don't think he has that much money. the u.s. supreme court has agreed to hear arguments for the colorado case that ruled former president trump ineligible to run for federal office. the justices will review the decision from the colorado

supreme court that said the former president engaged in insurrection on january 6th and is, therefore, barred from the ballot by the 14th amendment. the case will be argued before scotus on an accelerated timeline, with proceedings beginning on february 8th. the former president commented on the supreme court's decision to hear the case at a rally in iowa on friday. >> some big things going in there, and i just saw the supreme court before i came. i got some beauties today. i had the one and then the other. supreme court is taking the case from colorado, and so they'll make a decision. they're saying, "oh, trump owns the supreme court. he owns it. he owns it. if they make a decision for him, it will be terrible. it'll ruin their reputations. he owns the supreme court. he put on three judges. he owns the supreme court. if they rule in his favor, it will be horrible for them." i just hope we get fair treatment because if we don't,

our country is in big, big trouble. does everybody understand what i'm saying? i think so. >> i understand nothing of what you are saying. let's bring in the ceo of the national constitution center and professor of law at george washington university, jeffrey rosen. he is also contributing writer at "the atlantic." a lot to talk about right now, but, first, let's talk about the last issue. that is the colorado case going before the united states supreme court. i am skeptical that the court will follow what the supreme court of colorado did, but i've heard from both sides. if you are a constitutional conservative like judge luttig, the court should uphold the colorado decision. what are your views on how this is going to go? >> absolutely. as you say, it really poses a

clash for the court between the conservative justices' commitment to textualism and originalism and the desire to find a pragmatic solution. conservative scholars like judge luttig argued powerfully the text of the constitution requires trump's exclusion from the ballot, and the 14th amendment is self-executing. in other words, there is no need for congress to pass enabling legislation before people can be disqualified. therefore, the justices who ordinarily care about text and history should disqualify him. on the other hand, as you suggested, they may be reluctant to have -- to kick him off the ballot and be concerned about the chaos that would result and that threat that president trump just made at the end of the clip you made. it is really sobering. for all those reasons, the justices might not intervene. another real dilemma for them is bush v gore. in bush v gore, they exalted pragmatic considerations like

avoiding chaos and refused to follow original understanding. why shouldn't they follow original understanding here? it's no easy answer for the court but a very dramatic clash between the ordinary way they go about these cases and the way they may be inclined to rule this time. >> such a high-stakes decision indeed, jeffrey. let's turn to one of the other headlines we touched upon, which is trump's claim of immunity. we know that is going to appeal. we have a hearing this week on that. forecast for us, if you will, how you see that playing out, not just this week but potentially in the months ahead. >> well, the court has decided not to intervene for now. many people expect the d.c. courts to reject a sweeping claim of presidential immunity. never before has the court suggested that a president is immune from all criminal prosecution, quite the contrary. then the question is, do the justices just want to affirm that without hearing it themselves, or would they like to hear full arguments to reach

a contrary -- to affirm? i don't think anyone expects a really sweeping immunity claim to go forward. around the same time, they'll be hearing the obstruction claim that jack smith has raised. whether or not president trump can be charged with obstruction of congress in connection with january 6th, and balancing those cases at the same time as colorado will put them at the center of the election. >> for colorado, would you be surprised if it was a 9-0, overturning the colorado case? >> that's what chief justice roberts is going to want. the justices would prefer a 9-0. 6-3 or 5-4 on this one would be devastating for the court completely. it is hard to think of what a clear 9-0 would look like. if it exist, they'll come up with it. >> jeff rosen, thank you. >> his book, "the pursuit of

happiness," how classical writers on virtue inspired the lives of the founders and defined america. it'll be published on february 13th. >> can't wait. >> look forward to that. >> jeffrey, come back, please. amid the swirling court cases surrounding donald trump, president biden delivered a fiery speech on friday, marking the third anniversary of the january 6th insurrection. biden used some of his most pointed language to date against the former president. >> hear me clearly, i'll say what donald trump won't, political violence is never, ever acceptable in the united states. never, never, never. it has no place in a democracy, none. [ applause ] it can't be pro-insurrectionist and pro-american. trump and his maga supporters not only embrace political violence, but they laugh about it. at his rally, he jokes about an intruder whipped up by the big trump lie, taking a hammer to

paul pelosi's skull and echoing the very same words used on january 6th, "where's nancy?" he thinks that's funny. he laughed about it. what a sick -- my god. [ applause ] i think it's despicable, seriously. that's repressive for any person to say that. >> say it. >> okay. >> let's bring in right now the former chief of staff to the dccc and hillary clinton campaigns, adrienne elrod. that was a passionate joe biden that a lot of democrats have been looking for over the past three, four, five months. don't want him to be whispering, talking quietly, being cerebral. they want joe biden the fighter. he showed up on friday. are we going to see more of that? >> yeah, absolutely, joe. i think you're going to see a lot more of that. it is 2024. the campaign has started.

we're ten months away from the election. i think you're going to see a lot of president biden really taking on donald trump. of course, we don't know that he is going to be the republican nominee yet, but we're 99.9% sure. the administration is certainly treating him like that. i think you're going to hear more, not just a contrast that president biden takes on with trump, you're also going to see, you know, more of the talk about protecting democracy and talking about the fact that we as americans deserve to live in a free society. freedom is going to be a central pillar of this campaign, and that doesn't just mean the freedom to live under democracy. it means the freedom to have access to reproduction rights. it means the freedom to have access to financial rights. the freedom to seek the job you want to seek in a very good economy that biden has put forward. i know there is inflation and interest rates, but those are coming down. i think you're going to start to really hear him talking about the message of freedom being a central part of his campaign.

>> fascinating, fascinating story in "the new york times" this past weekend about barack obama coming into the white house, talking to joe biden. it seems that over the past five years or so, six, four or five years, we've seen barack obama, you know, windsurfing in maui or on a catamaran in maui or bali. >> no, come on. >> wherever he is. it's not sort of been with him rolling up his sleeves, being engaged in politics. i find it fascinating. this is like the second or third time he's gone into the white house. it's almost been like, "hey, hey, hey, you aren't taking donald trump seriously enough." there was that message this summer. i believe it was this summer he went in to say it. he went in again, went in again to say, "you need to get the people in your white house out on the campaign trail.

they have to get engaged. you're either in a war or you're not in a war. there is no halfway here." i must say, it reminded me of when people like joe biden and others, bill clinton, you know, i could go down the list in 2016, kept saying the clinton campaign, they're not taking this guy seriously enough. i take this, by the way, as positive news. the sirens are already going. >> mm-hmm. >> what would you say about barack obama being engaged so early and being concerned so early that maybe some people are not taking the threat of donald trump seriously enough? >> well, look, i mean, barack obama is not only, you know, former president, but he remains one of the top, if not the top surrogate in the democratic party. i think when president obama says something, you know, no matter who it is, going to listen, right, especially if you are the current president of the united states.

what i will also say is, i mean, i talk to people in the west wing all the time, many are former colleagues from the 2020 campaign and previous campaigns and administrations, as well. they are taking donald trump seriously. i think, again, the speech you saw president biden give on friday, he's obviously in south carolina today, you're going to start to see more of an aggressive contrast that he is taking on with trump going forward. because, again, americans are starting to tune in. it is 2024. this is the election year. i think, again, they're always happy to hear from president obama, but i do think this administration is certainly take ing donald trump very seriously. >> with respect to anybody giving president biden advice like that, i really point to what josh shapiro said on our show on friday. because, by the way, any democrats out there who are trying to make the case for president biden having a second term, they can talk about

bidenomics and go on and on, talk about any accomplishment, by the way, more than any other american presidency, but if biden did 10% of what he did and not managing two wars, the contrast would still be extreme. >> mm-hmm. >> it seems to me, just like what we heard from pennsylvania's governor, everybody needs to get out there, obama, everybody needs to fight for our democracy and freedom. everybody is putting it on joe biden. yes, he is doing it. where are you is the question i have for democratic senators, members of congress, democratic strategists and, quite frankly, members of the republican party who believe in our constitution. adrienne, what do you think? >> that's right, mika. i always say we have to run like the avengers. we have an incredible bench of governors. goff november whitmer and governor shapiro, senator klobuchar and senator booker. incredible, up and coming, you know, elected leaders throughout the party. we've got to use all our

surrogates effectively. i ran the surrogate campaign for hillary in 2016. i ran that same department for president biden's general election in 2020. we all understand the importance of surrogates. in this age of social media, the fact we have a strong bench of up and comers in the party, not just up and comers but people currently leading, we want to make sure their voices are front and center. it is not just on the campaign to do that, which the campaign is, but it is up to them to use their platforms, harness their strength in social media and local media, too, to drive what president biden has done and what he will do in a second term. >> all right. adrienne elrod, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it, as always. now, in the words of monte python, something completely different. the nfl playoffs are set. here's a look at the final plays of the nfl regular season. >> third and one, wants to go up top. looks to the end zone.

the pass is on the money for the touchdown! >> fake to gibbs. lets it rip. man open. perfect throw. freeman! >> just want to play sound and with good technique. third and goal. football comes loose. kansas city has it with edwards, and he is off and running. edwards has a blocker, and he's going to take the rock all the way back for a kansas city touchdown. >> giants try to convert on a third and two, two minutes to go, first half. high snap, taylor looking for the deep ball. saquon barkley's got it! >> prescott can't find anyone. retreats, points, says go right there. caught. >> fake the give, over the top, deflected in the air, drags his feet, touchdown. ruled a touchdown! >> the bills' win over the miami

dolphins last night secured buffalo its fourth consecutive afc east title. let's bring in right now to bring us through next weekend's card matchups, pablo torre. i really thought that we would be talking today, you know, we talked about the lions all last year. talked about how they were up and comers. this year, i thought i'd be talking to you today about how the bears, who really have come on strong, had a good second half of the season, and the texans were the up and comers for next year. but next year is this year. can you believe, with all the garbage we have had to sit through, mediocre teams. >> that's right. >> can you believe c.j. stroud has impacted this team and this league as much as he has? >> joe, you quoted monte python before. the texans, when they're dealing with everything that happened to their organization, you think, when they claim it is only a flesh wound that this is a lie.

you can't just solve this with a rookie quarterback. a rookie quarterback for those in america who are not familiar, it is one of the hardest jobs. >> horrible. >> you come in, and you have to prove yourself. oftentimes, when you're drafted by a team at number two overall, it is because the team is really bad. you don't see a turnaround like this. here is c.j. stroud against peyton manning's old team. manning was a rookie quarterback, he threw 28 interceptions, then became peyton manning. >> yeah. >> c.j. stroud became c.j. stroud in year one. here they are, clinching the division, beating the colts, another team with a winning record. it is wildly impressive for him andryans, the head coach of the team. clearly now one of the great rookie seasons of all time. >> could we could have seen the dividing line between the texas and carolinas?

one of the worst teams since the '79 buccaneers. so bad. seriously, if i were bryce young's parents or agent, i would be saying, "you have to get him out of here. he cannot stay here. he will not survive three years." that team, that organization is colossally screwed up. >> joe, i know you're an alabama guy. we all know this. bryce young is an alabama kid. your paternalistic instincts here are correct, regardless of what alma mater or team you claim. the panthers, the number of controversies and mistakes this season alone, you know, missing c.j. stroud is one thing. david tepper, of course, the hedge fund bazillionaire who bought the panthers, he was seen throwing a drink from his luxury box onto fans. they had to fire half the coaching staff. this is a team that, i think, has problems deeper than one single quarterback can solve. i'm like you, if i'm bryce

young, i am thinking, what kind of a nightmare just drafted me number one overall? >> yeah. let's talk about, before we move forward and talk about the matchups with the, god, the underachieving kansas city chiefs, the underachieving miami dolphins. that is the underachievers bowl right there. before we do that, let's finish up by talking about what a miserable, miserable ending to an extraordinary career with bill belichick, like, wrapped up and swaddled in the clothes of a miserable, miserable losing head coach, and having the indignity of actually being crushed by the new york jets in the worst weather. i mean, this -- what an ending for what a career. >> it was poetic. by the way, every monday i come in here for this whole season, joe, and i whisper to john lemire about what happens to bill belichick, i regret to

inform you that this was sort of foreseen. now, loing to the jets for the first time in 16 straight games, maybe that was not as predictable, but bill belichick, the ending he met here to the jets, of course, his former employer once upon a time, bill belichick is america's withholding father. he is the guy no one can impress. the man whose emotions you try to wring out of him like a stone, and he goes out the way he came in, which is, to me, of course now, the ultimate winner, the most super bowl appearances, most super bowl wins, most playoff games and playoff wins, no question. but he is the embodiment of philosophy, better to get rid of someone a year earlier than a year late. we're watching the dynasty fall apart, and it is not dissimilar. it is a broken relationship. he is a victim of his own success. >> such a sad game yesterday. belichick had been sick all

week. you can see him on the left against the elements. you can barely see his eyes, the mask pulled up. there have been so many patriots highlights in the snow the last couple decades, and this was a pathetic end. to pablo's point about getting rid of guys too early rather than too late, the decision to get rid of tom brady too early, robert kraft never forgave him. i was holding onto hope that belichick would remain coach but give up the gm. he's been bad at assembling rosters, but that ship has sailed, too. this is the end. >> you have to cut him. >> oh. >> this is the end. >> you know what belichick would say? you have to cut him. >> the question is, what happens next to belichick? does he try -- he is about 15 wins or so short of the all-time wins record. does he try to latch on somewhere else? chargers, commanders, among the rumors. if this is, indeed, the end, as a pate yooriots fan, i'm gratefr

the 20 plus years of so many joyful football moments. >> okay, whatever. pablo, i'm trying to swerve this back onto the road. >> this guy. >> go in a positive direction. >> alabama? >> i can't do it. i cannot look forward until we look back first. i'm trying to think, and you're so much smarter than i am. >> hmm. >> i'm just a poor, simple country lawyer. [ laughter ] i'm trying to think back to if i've ever seen, without a key player going down, a midseason or even a late midseason collapse as dramatic as the philadelphia eagles. i think they were 10-1 at one point. i said, this team, jalen is going to, you know, get there. it is going to be an extraordinary rematch with the chiefs. they're going to roll over the cowboys. they're going to beat 'em. i've never seen a team collapse midseason.

do you have any insights on why that's happened? >> it's a team, joe -- i'm sitting next to reverend al -- it is a team that i want him to go and try to motivate them because they're still a playoff team, okay? the season is not over, but it feels that way. it feels that way because, you're right, this was a super bowl favorite entering this season, but the reasons why they're bad, you can point to a.j. brown, their star receiver getting hurt just yesterday, but i think it is an endemicthing. it is an endemic thing. i don't know if this game meets much to your audience, but matt patricia. >> it means a lot. >> former patriots coordinator, he became a guy they looked to to solve their problems. the eagles have deep problems in the coaching staff. nick sirianni, the head coach, the guy whose buck stops here, this is a guy who just had the two worst games of his entire coaching tenure in the last two weeks. when you say a collapse, they're 1-5 in their last six. their defense cannot stop

anybody. jalen hurts, he seems like somebody who needs help in a way that you sort of want him to transcend and, yet, he cannot transcend. they cannot overcome, unfortunately, for the time being. so, yeah, maybe a motivational speech is the only best, last hope for them. >> anybody that's followed sports for any amount of time knows, this is a coaching problem. this starts at the very top. you don't have a team that is 10-1 and then goes 1-5 without looking at the person who is in charge of the team. i don't know what's going on in the locker room. i don't know what's going on in the sidelines. whatever it is, it ain't good. >> no. >> i know there are a lot of philadelphia fans that watch this show. i'm hoping they can turn it around. okay. so we look at the matchups for next week. i mean, who can't be excited about the cleveland browns and the houston texans? those are, you know, flacco versus c.j. stroud. the dolphins and the chiefs. two underachievers. how about the eelers?

who would have guessed five, six weeks in, the steelers would have madet the playoffs? that is exciting. they're going against the bills. packers against the cowboys. we're all green bay fans for that one y. theams versus the mighty lions, and then the eagles and the buccaneers. a game the eagles may actually be able to win. what are you looking at there? >> i'm looking at the packers and cowboys. you pointed out, not just because of the shot against the cowboys for the nine millionth straight season. the reason aaron rodgers have been a thing we've had to reckon with all season has been because he was so devastated that the packers, his former employer, how dare they select a quarterback, a rookie in the first round in 2020. how dare they hand the reins to that guy? jordan love is the person we're watching throw that touchdown right now.

it is a remarkable story. jordan love was buried, underestimated, and people wrote him off. of course he is not as good as aaron rodgers. what he does beating the bears, what he did taking this packers team to the postseason, in his first season as starter, is a remarkable thing. i am rooting for jordan love, for all the reasons aforementioned. >> not as good as aaron rodgers. not as whacked out as aaron rodgers. not as likely to be in lawsuits. >> yes. >> as aaron rodgers. really quickly, jonathan lemire, the rams, here's another team, you know, six weeks ago, would have never guessed the rams were going to make it to theplayoffs but they did. what about matthew stafford going home to my favorite team in these playoffs, to play against the lions? stafford going home against the detroit lions, that's going to be a great game at ford field.

>> yeah, the matthew stafford bowl, no doubt. also, let's remember, it reunites jared goff with the rams' head coach, sean mcvay, who he took him to the super bowl and decided goff wasn't good enough and jettisoned him for stafford. i worry about the karma for your beloved lions, joe. in a meaningful game, their superstar tight end hurt his knee. >> laporta, yeah. >> may not be able to play this weekend, and he is a difference maker. that'd be a shame if he misses it. yeah, that should be a fun one. to pablo's point, it's been a pretty mediocre and somewhat disappointing nfl season. >> no doubt. >> i think we all agree. >> horrible. >> it's been not great. hope the playoffs redeem it. >> lousy season it's been. it's fun watching and it's fun every saturday watching "red zone," but, man, some genuinely uninspiring teams. really quickly, pablo, before i let you go, and before i think alex may just take us to break

here, he keeps telling me to stop. >> it is time to go. >> i have to ask. >> i'll tell you to stop. >> tonight, washington and michigan, who do you like? >> i'm just glad you're back at work, joe. we missed you after alabama lost. >> see? >> we missed you. >> everyone missed you. >> let me tell you what, no southern man would show up at work after losing to a big ten team. go ahead. >> i will take the team that slew you. i am taking michigan. they're favored in the game by five points. they have the best defense. one of the best defenses in modern college football history. washington has been impressive. great quarterback. give me michigan. give me the team that broke joe scarborough's heart. apologies. >> didn't break my heart. if your team doesn't show up to play, you can't expect them to win. >> spoken like belichick. >> jonathan lemire, i've got to say about -- >> we have to go. >> -- penix, this is a guy that nobody has respected. i love they're underdogs.

what a story it'll be if he wins again. you know, everybody is talking bo nix, bo nix, oregon, oregon. all penix does is beats bo nix twice. people are still talking about bo nix and oregon. nobody gives that he is a rodney dangerfield of college football. nobody is giving him the respect he deserves. what a storybook ending it would be if the huskies could win tonight. >> yeah, he was terrific, the best quarterback we saw play last weekend. you know, in the semifinals. it has been a marvelous story all year long. he improved the draft stock, probably a top 10, 15 pick in the first round. it should be a really good game tonight. i know, i know who i'm speaking to here, but there is something refreshing about a non-s.e.c. national championship game. >> there it is. >> for once. it'll go back the other way next year, i am sure, but right now, it should be a fun one tonight. two different schools in there. >> all right. >> you know, once a century, we can let that happen. >> all i'm saying. >> this is the first, second year in the 20th century, 21st

century, that's fine. >> adrienne elrod tells us to watch out for the razorbacks next year. >> we'll be talking about the razorbacks this time last year in the national championship game. i'm confident. >> there we go. >> thank you. >> another razorback cake. you can catch more of pablo through his podcast, "pablo torre finds out." espn's pablo torre, thank you for being on. >> thank you, mika, and sorry. still ahead -- it's okay -- still ahead on "morning joe," we'll get a live report from the middle east ahead of another visit from antony blinken. despite two hot wars happening right now, neither one is our next guest's top risk of 2024. ian bremmerrazorbacks, actually >> no. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. much more. take your

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u.s. secretary of state ant blinken arrived in qatar as a diplomatic blitz designed to tamp down rising tensions in the middle east. he arrived in qatar after meetings with foreign leaders in turkey, greece, and jordan. before he returns stateside, blinken will visit israel, the west bank, and other key areas and nations involved in the diplomatic process. joining us from doha is chief international correspondent keir simmons. what are we learning? it seems the secretary of state has a huge job in front of him. >> reporter: that's an understatement, mika. he is currently in the uae and saudi arabia. he gets to israel tonight for really the most important part of his trip and the most difficult part of his trip. with the bloodshed in gaza just escalating, sicker and sicker scenes, as described by the

general of the w.h.o. listen to this quote from the general, "sickening scenes of people of all ages being treated on blood-street floors and chaotic corridors." now, he stood beside the prime minister of qatar here in qatar last night. sounded as outspoken as he has done in the past, calling for a reduction in the deaths in gaza, criticizing israeli ministers for suggesting that palestinians ought to be driven out of gaza. but the qatari prime minister standing next to him looked more frustrated than i have seen him. that's a very close ally, qatar, of the u.s., of course. centcom is based here. they were really, honestly, puttingfriendly way, but differ messages. the region is on fire, mika. another example, as we know, in

the red sea, the houthis from yemen continuing to target ships in the red sea. secretary blinken talking about that, saying 20% of the world's shipping is being impacted, calling on the houthis to stop that onslaught. take a listen. >> that's why the united states launched operation prosperity guardian together where more than 20 countries, to defend the safety and security of shipping across the red sea. it is also why over a dozen countries have made clear the houthis will be held accountable for future attacks. we'll continue to defend maritime security in the region as part of our overall effort to deter and prevent further regional conflict, to ensure the freeflow of commerce that is so vital to people around the world. >> reporter: the houthis will be held accountable. that suggests the u.s. is still moving towards the possibility of hitting houthis bases inside

yemen. i've got to tell ya, folks we spoke to who know yemen well tell us that is an extremely risky strategy that may not silence the houthis anyway. remember, saudi arabia had a seven to eight year war so far with the houthis launched in uncountable numbers of missiles and still didn't put an end to that. then, just to finish, you have the tension in northern israel with hezbollah. overnight, seven members of hezbollah killed, according to the idf. that tension, i am told, while leaders in the region are privately, nevermind publicly, expressing deep concern that could escalate, many others, diplomats i speak to here, telling me they still believe iran does not want to get into a full-scale confrontation with israel, with the u.s. i think that assassination of

the hamas leader, arouri in beirut last week, that happened in a hezbollah area of beirut. one idf general with close links to the idf still told me nasrallah, the leader of hezbollah, is not interested in a full-scale war. those behind the strike that killed arouri know that. during the strike, he says that israel -- or he doesn't say it was israel but most people accept it was -- was smart enough not to hit any hezbollah targets. the issue is, of course, every day that this goes on, every week, every month, there are multiple ways in which this could escalate. >> nbc's keir simmons reporting from doha, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. the rising tensions in the middle east are one of the top risks for 2024 according to a

new report by eurasia group, but it actually doesn't top the list. joining us now, the co-author of that report, president and founder of eurasia group and g0 media, ian bremmer. ian, what in the world could be number one? let's go right to that. what is the top threat? >> yeah, mika, there are three wars we're facing this year. the russia/ukraine war, we're facing a turning point, not happy where it ising. the middle east which is about to escalate significantly. number one, the unitestes versus itself. there's no question, in each of these three wars, you have principals, leaders that think of their pponents as their most important adversary, in some ways, enemies of the people. they're willing to use extralegal means to go after them. perhaps most worringly, they do not share basic sets of facts in describing what their intentions are, what they're fighting over,

and what victory would mean. that's a very disturbing set of conflicts on the global stage today, and the fact that number one, i mean, we really had no choice but to list the united states as number one. usually, there is an internal debate, but given the impact, the scale and the imminence of what we are facing in the united states this 2024, i don't see what else we possibly could list. >> i would like to dig deeper into that. with the middle east roiling and, every day, the potential for this escalating into a much wider, much more dangerous, much more close to home war, i guess my questions are, what kind of data and information caused eurasia group to make america against itself the number one threat? >> well, if you look at it, we've been doing this around 26 years now. >> yeah. >> the way we rank these likelihood imminents and impact. of course, the fact thathe

united states is not just facing an election that is increasingly seen as illegitimate by large percentages of the population, but also the scale of impact of any problems with the u.s. democracy for the rest of the world. i mean, you travel around the world, and the level of concern and worry about what this will mean for american commitment, american policies, american alliances, and, of course, opportunities for american adversaries, vastly greater than anything else. you have to look at those different metrics when you're considering what are the most important risks out there? i mean, looking at the united states, this is not looking at 2024, not what happens after the inauguration in 2025. when trump gets the nomination, certainly not certain but it is very, very likely, and you've been talking about this every morning, that he's suddenly going to be a vastly more powerful figure on the american domestic stage. the republican party will line

up with him overwhelmingly with loyalty. he will have the media focusing on him far more than they are today. he'll have a lot more money the play with, as well. and suddenly, trump's policies, which right now are, you know, pronouncements that are covered in the context of someone running, but they will be policies that essentially reflect the leadership of the republican party going into 2024. that for issues like ukraine, like the middle east, like the border, suddenly, the overton window for what is debated in the united states is going to change very dramatically. again, countries around the world are very, very concerned about this. >> ian, as you look at the risk and having the united states as number one, the attack on israel, october 7, all of us were outraged and stepped forward and said, "this is unacceptable. we can't have this." but then we've also denounced

many that are with israel on that, what is going on with netanyahu, in terms of what is going on in gaza, and feel the killing babies and innocent civilians, that we objected to or raise our voice to in israel was also unacceptable in gaza. there's a human rights thing. >> right. >> but the united states seems, in terms of the biden administration, not to be able to deal with you can be pro-israel and anti-netanyahu. when you see the killing of this hamas leader and the risk that it brings when you have arouri killed in a hezbollah area, does all of this combined make it even more risky for where the united states goes, seeming to an imbalance in terms of not taking netanyahu to task publicly without looking anti-israel, because one has nothing to do with the other? >> it is a lot hardener this

environment. it is certainly true that one can be anti-netanyahu without being anti-israel. that, by the way, would describe the vast majority of the israeli people. >> right. >> who certainly feel that way. when you're talking about the war, you're talking not about netanyahu but the war cabinet. that war, as it is being fought and as it is being escalated, is supported by the vast majority of the israeli people. the united states as the principal, major ally of israel in the world, is really stapled to that outcome. it's isolated in the way it is stapled to that outcome. i mean, the united states today, only three months after the worst violence perpetrated against the jews since the holocaust, the united states in its support for israel is more isolated on the global stage than russia was when it invaded ukraine two years ago. that's a staggering and shocking thing to say, but it is a reality. it is a problem for biden, not just on the global stage where he is losing support, but also

on the domestic stage where this is clearly going to be an election issue that will hurt him in 2024. >> so i'm curious. obviously, you're a foreign policy expert and have been covering this a long time. if donald trump were to be re-elected president of the united states, where do you think things look like next year in 2025 on the global stage in terms of where the united states is? you know, what is the middle east looking like? does it shift things there? does it shift things in russia-ukraine? what danger, i would say, does it further put the world in if donald trump were to become president again? >> allies are a lot more concerned this time around than they were in 2016, 2020. i think a part of that is because the world is so much more dangerous. remember, trump is president for four years, but there weren't major global crises on his watch. he uses that in an election line, but it means other countries around the world weren't worried about the

uncertainty of what he would do if there was a crisis. this is a different environment. talk about the middle east, when president trump faced a much smaller crisis in terms of the iranians continuing to attack american allies on u.s. bases, he ordered the assassination of soleimani, the head of the iranian forces. what might trump do to display american strength in an environment where the u.s. forces and shipping through the red sea are getting hit almost every day? the answer is far more dangerous than that. ukraine, no friend, mr. zelenskyy, of president trump. if he becomes president, his willingness to throw zelenskyy under the bus is large and immediate. of course, that means ukraine's ability to maintain its existing territory, much, much more challenging. the u.s. ability to maintain a strong transatlantic alliance with critical friends in nato, much more concerning, too. one more point, i was just in china a few weeks ago, chinese leaders, who, frankly, were interested in trump the first

time around, thought he is a businessman, he is transactional, maybe doesn't care about american exceptionally, we can cut a deal with this, they are very concerned about trump this time around. they're concerned about the instability on the global stage, and they're also concerned about what a trump trade policy would mean for u.s.-china. you've seen some of that from lighthizer recently, expected to be in a trump administration should he win. these are concerning. >> lastly and briefly, you identify on your list red herrings of 2024 with u.s. and china at the top. >> people talk about the elections happening in 2024. u.s. election is concerning. most of the elections the world is facing are not destabilizing, india, mexico, europe. you'll get what you have had, and leaders will be able to push ahead with further reforms, further policies. it is not like the rest of the worldooks like the u.s. in terms of democracy. that's important. u.s.-china this year looked like the adults in the room. it is not because they like each other. it is not because there's trust.

rather, it is because there are so many major crises that they're trying to create stability. also keep in mind that china's economy is doing very badly indeed. it is not about to turn around in 2024. that makes xi jinping more cautious. he doesn't want to escalate. that informs the way we've seen far more high-level engagement between the u.s. and china the last few months. that should stick through 2024. that's one of the bright spots this year. >> tumultuous times. president and founder of euasia group and g0 media, ian bremmer. thank you for coming on this morning, i think. >> great to be here. late supreme court justice ruth bade

the series has given kids the stories of groundbreaking people like jackie robinson, albert einstein. joining us, brad meltzer and the granddaughter of the late supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg, clara. good to have you both with us. brad, these are so great.

where do you begin on teaching children about the legacy of rbd? >> i always start when they're kids themselves. they don't care about a supreme court justice. what they care about is the details when they're young. we think of ruth bader ginsburg as this serious justice, but when she was a little girl, she just wants to go on adventures and climb trees. back then, girls weren't supposed to do that. and it's her mother who breaks that stereotype, takes her when she's a little girl to the library every friday and says you can pick out five books. she likes amelia erhart, harriet tubman, and she gets that she can do anything. >> tell us what it's like to see your grandmother's story brought to life like this and what you also hope that readers of any age will take from it.

>> yeah. i absolutely love it. we're so used to the image of my grandmother as older, wiser, when she was on the court. so, seeing her as a child and in a way that can really speak to other children and families to me makes me really excited she can continue to serve as this source of inspiration for the next generation and not just those who knew her when she was alive. >> i'm so inspired by the fact that i have a lot of friends who have children who are 4, 5, 6 years old who are very familiar with your grandmother, which is not always common for a supreme court justice to be known that well. obviously, is think this book is going to hope continue that legacy. how do you plan to continue to really make sure that generations going forward are familiar with your grandmother's legacy and are inspired by it? she's such an incredible role model. it's great to see young people so excited about her. >> it is really exciting. every halloween i get images of ruth baby ginsburg in their

costumes. on a personal level, the way i'm trying to honor her legacy is through my work. i'm an attorney, and i teach law, and that's what i'm focused on. there's so much out there, including this wonderful book by brad that is helping other people get to know her and get to know her through different ways. >> i'm impressed with the list of people you've done -- the series has done. how do you determine ruth bader ginsburg? how do you determine -- >> chris, our amazing artist and editor, we sit down and say what does the world need right now? the best heroes are not the ones you want but the ones you need. if you look at ruth bader ginsburg and think about her, she is someone -- we were looking around and saying how do you deal with injustice in the world? when she's a little girl, her mother used to take her on her earth bay, instead of throwing party, would take her to a local jewish orphanage and would give

out ice cream to the orphans. that's how her mother taught her to deal with injustice in society. that's a lesson from her mom. you make change. of course ruth bader ginsburg takes it to the court and makes that change in the legal world, but that's all these books are to us. it's a way to make change with my kids, your own kids, teach them how to be better people. >> a message for all of us. the book "ordinary people change the world: i am ruth bader ginsburg" is out in bookstores tomorrow. author brad meltzer and the granddaughter of rbg, clara. coming up on "morning joe," the faa is grounding a popular boeing jet following a terrifying incident over the weekend. we'll have the latest in the investigation into what caused an alaska airlines plane to detach midflight. plus, the big winners from last night's golden globe awards.

release them, joe. >> it's not just part of his past. it's what he's promising for the future. >> stay in those voting booths. you should stay there and watch it. if you see bags of crap coming into the voting areas, you have to stop it. >> the legal path just took

trump back to the truth that i've won the election and he was a loser. >> we're going to win for the third time, and i just don't want the results of the second. >> for me and kamala, our campaign is about america, it's about you. >> first they say, sir, how do you do it? how do you wake up in the morning and put on your pants? >> look at the authoritarians and dictators he admires. >> president xi, strong, smart, tough. i got along with kim jong-un. saddam hussein, andly say that hung that sucker and he spit right in their face, but, you know, tough guy. >> when he visited the cemetery called dead soldiers suckers and losers. >> john mccain for some reason couldn't get his arm up that day. remember, he goes -- >> after all we've been through from independence to civil war -- >> the civil war was so fascinating, so horrible. because i was reading something, and i said, this is something

that could have been negotiated. >> i refuse to believe that in 2024 we americans will choose to walk away from what's made us the greatest nation. >> they laughed at us all over the world. we're a failing nation. >> no. you're a failure as a politician and a failure in so many other ways. >> more like a disgrace. >> well, a failure, a failure and a disgrace. i mean, here's a guy that, again, he's talking about january 6th being peaceful. nothing peaceful about it. calling the rioters peaceful protesters. they go in and they beat the hell out of cops because i guess he just doesn't give a damn about police officers. he makes fun of prisoners of war while he and his daddy figure out a way for him to stay home from the war because of bone

spurs. he said, you know, i was reading something -- well, first of all, what -- what ivana trump told "vanity fair" was he read hitler's speeches, kept them by his bedside table. but while he was reading those, he must have also been reading some confederacy diary saying that abraham lincoln was a failure because he should have -- he should have negotiated away slavery and negotiated with the south in the civil war. again, it keeps getting worse. it keeps getting worse. by the way, for the record, donald trump lost 51% to 47%, 306 electoral votes to 232 electoral votes. and is dowd said this weekend, she wrote, "if people don't know by now that trump tried to overthrow the government he was

running on january 6th, if they don't know that the maga fanatics breaking into the capitol, beating up cops and threatening to harm pelosi and hang pence were criminals, not patriots and hostages, as trump calls them, if they don't know that trump created a radical supreme court that is stripping women of their rights, then they don't want to know or they just don't care. but the media must pound on. maureen's column is called "time to conquer hell." she quoted thomas paine, who said "these are the times that try men's souls." tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered. and that in this new year is exactly what americans across the country must do. they're seen in stark relief between joe biden, a pro-democracy politician, whether you support all his views or not, and donald trump,

a pro-authoritarian, who praises rioters that beat the hell out of cops with american flags that our soldiers and sailors and marines and airmen have taken into battle for hundreds of years. he considers those people patriots. it's about as stark as its can be. >> absolutely. and it's important to take a look at the very different messages from president biden and former president trump this past weekend and moving forward. it is a significant week in the presidential race as its intertwines with the legal charges against donald trump. today marks exactly one week until the iowa caucuses, and tomorrow trump says he will attend an appeals court hearing on his claim of presidential immunity in the january 6th election interference case. on thursday, trump is expected to appear in court in new york

for the closing arguments in the fraud trial against his company, for which new york's attorney general is now seeking a much higher penalty. president biden, meanwhile, today will be in south carolina for a speech about what he sees is a hate-filled agenda from the trump campaign. >> well, and at the very church in charleston where churchgoers were slain while in bible study. >> we have of the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and founder of the conservative website "the bulwark," charlie sykes is with us this morning. >> charlie, so i'm glad you're here today, and i'm glad that we started out the way we did. the team put together that montage. i've been reading, and it's

mainly republicans or it's republican-leaning people or it's conservatives or sort of so-called moderate conservative who is say, you know, donald trump, he's terrible, he's just terrible, "but." >> i can't vote for biden. >> he's terrible, "but." i'm not even going to mention the name -- the former -- this is "wall street journal" opinion trump summons in iowa, the former president knows his enemy's lunacy makes his fans love him, so he encourages those enemies who may end up re-electing him. we saw this in the "wall street journal" this weekend. we saw this in "the new york times" this weekend, again a name i don't care to bring up, but saying people may look back and seep if donald trump is actually treated like any other politician who stole nuclear secrets and tried to steal an american election, well, it's

going to be our fault. and i just sit there thinking, charlie, is this what pro-democracy newspapers in bavaria were writing in 1932, 1933, going, you know, if adolf hitler gets to power, it's really us pro-democracy newspapers who are to blame for warning people just how dangerous this hitler character may be. >> yeah. i'm sure that hitler derangement syndrome was a big deal back in 1932. >> i'm sure it was. >> you bring this up in the anti-trump media already going, okay, stop exaggerating the danger of donald trump. you people are obsessed with donald trump. why are you talking about donald trump? that's what nikki haley is accusing chris christie of doing. the reason people are obsessed with donald trump is that donald trump comes out and tells us every single day what he intends to do and who he is.

you know, your montage showed the stark contrast. but the reality is is that donald trump is so far off the normal spectrum of american politics that it's been difficult for the last seven years to talk about it, and it's going to be difficult for the next year without sounding like we are suffering from trump derangement syndrome, but the reality is donald trump is saying -- he's basically saying, you think i'm dangerous? hold my beer. this is what i'm going to do. this is what i believe. the least plausible thing he said over the weekend was he was actually "reading" something. >> right. >> about history of the civil war. i would love to know what book it was about the civil war, and i'd be fascinated to hear his deep thoughts and how he, donald trump, would have negotiated the civil war. we focused seven days on nikki haley's gaffe about not being able to say that slavery was the cause of the civil war. >> exactly. >> yet donald trump says maybe

we should have negotiated. okay. is that a story for two minutes? this is the challenge of dealing with the guy because the flood of -- it's not just the flood of lies, it is the flood of bizarre, extreme rhetoric, the fact he's calling the prisoners hostages, the fact he is now going to somehow get rid of the word insurrection. watch in the next week or so as he begins to become the champion of genuine american democracy. it's going to be a difficult task for all of us, i think, to keep up with that fire hose. >> absolutely. here's that specific -- what you were talking about, charlie -- sound bite about reading about the civil war, his perverted take on history. >> the civil war was so fascinating, so horrible. it was so horrible and so fascinating. it was -- i don't know. it was just different. i find it -- i'm so attracted to seeing that so many mistakes

were made. see, there was something i think could have been negotiated, to be honest with you. i think you could have negotiated that. abraham lincoln, of course if you negotiated it, you probably wouldn't even know who abraham lincoln was. >> so, here we are, charlie, you have donald trump -- and there's actually -- there's this beautiful parallel, actually, with the anti-anti-trumpists who are rising again, you know, like the phoenix from the ashes. they're rising again. there's actually a parallel here where donald trump is now blaming abraham lincoln for the civil war. by the way, this is the same guy that said he wanted to terminate the constitution, he wanted to assassinate generals who were insufficiently disloyal to him. he wanted to ban news networks that were insufficiently loyal to him. we could go down the list. mike pence deserved hanging. how many things?

but here we have -- here we have donald trump blaming abraham lincoln for slavery. and yet you're exactly right. these people will say, oh, you know, you should talk about nikki haley for two weeks on what nikki haley said. someone who will probably finish a distant third in iowa. talk about it on a loop. but donald trump blames abraham lincoln for the civil war. and if you and i talk about it for more than three or four minutes, people far more conservative than these clowns writing these op-eds in defense of donald trump, somehow that equals trump derangement syndrome. i'm not exactly sure why donald trump gets a free pass on. absolutely everything. >> remember that meme in 2016? take him seriously but not literally.

i think that was it. and the reality is that i think this is part of the rationalization process, like don't pay any attention to what he's saying because it doesn't matter. well, it does matter. reality matters. this is a man who's already shown a willingness to overthrow a free and fair election. we've seen this. we had a million americans die during covid because of his ignorance. this is a man who, you know, by the way, thinks that magnets don't work if you drop them into water and thinks you can inject bleach into human bodies. you know, are we deranged by pointing out how incredibly stupid all of that is? but, again, this is part of the challenge, because i can see the republican party already making its usual shift, which is to blinker itself, like we're not going to pay attention to this, we're going to go along with donald trump no matter what he says. and, look, you know, joe, joe and mika, we've talked about the transformation of the republican party, but you want to talk about, you know, the speed and

the trajectory of this, i mean, we are in a moment now that would have been inconceivable on january 7th, but just over the weekend, the way donald trump -- the worst aspects of donald trump are being echoed and repeated by other republicans. elise stefan any, number three in the republican party, goes on the air on "meet the press," says she'll refuse to certify the election, one bs and defends donald trump's use of the term that immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country, that hitlarian rhetoric. every republican would say they didn't hear it or pushed back against it. at least stefanik is channeling the worst of donald trump, and that gives you a sense of how awful it's become in 2024. >> "the times" had a great rundown of what happened after trump lost, what happened on

january the 6th, how trump was pushed to the side, and how by one by one by one they all folded. now we're seeing in the media, because they want to get close to donald trump, and some media people, i guess want to have access on the campaign trail, these republicans and -- >> can you call them republicans? >> i don't know what you call them, actually, when they're quoting hitler and they're channeling hitler. but be that as it may, the transformation, it keeps going. and now we're seeing the rise once again and expect to see it in all the same spots we saw it in 2020, in that campaign, the rise of the anti-anti-trump forces, who say, if you hold donald trump to account for stealing nuclear secrets, you have trump derangement syndrome. "the new york times" column saying this sunday, if you actually read the constitution,

the way the constitution should -- people will look back for centuries and say this is the moment american democracy died, because, you know, you think about those left-wing radicals that are doing this, you think about those freaks at the federalist society, those left-wing -- i'm sorry -- they're really conservative legal scholars, does that judge who's been at the center of every left-wing radical, hair-brained -- wait a second. >> nope. >> oh, wait a second. these are constitutional conservatives who are saying this. and yet you're seeing op-eds in the "wall street journal" and "the new york times" saying, if you actually hold donald trump to account like you'd hold any other politician, it's only going to make him -- this is obi-wan kenobi, right? this is that trick, strike me down, constitutionalists, and i, trump, will only become more --

no. it's not that way. "on the face of violence, trump refused repeated requests over a multiple-hour period that he instruct his violent supporters to disperse and leave the capitol, instead watched the violent attack unfold on television, and not only that, but we found out from his staff that he rewound the most violent parts and watched them over and over again while people like dan scavino rushing in, begging him, his daughter, ivanka trump, rushing in, begging him to stop the riots. he refused." reverend al, jamel rights this -- "does it threaten the constitutional order to use the clear context of the constitution to hold the former constitutional officer accountable for his efforts to overturn that order?" the answer is no, of course not. there is no rule that says

democracies must give endless and unlimited grace to those who use the public trust to conspire for all the world to see against him. voters are free to choose a republican candidate for president. they're free to choose a republican with trump's politics. but if we take the constitution seriously, then trump, by dent of his own actions, should be off the board. what jamel buoy says is there is this belief that donald trump has a superpower, that in the end, this guy's superpower is just that there are people who believe that he has superpowers. and we cannot treat him the way we treat other politicians. nikki haley said something really screwed up or refuses to even talk about slave i, and the media talks about that for weeks. donald trump just blamed abraham lincoln for the civil war because he would not negotiate slavery with the south. what donald trump was saying

there was, you know, lincoln should just let southerners continue to have slaves. and because he didn't, abraham lincoln caused the civil war. and yet you watch these jackasses that write their newsletter, that write op-eds in the "wall street journal" and others, these jackasses on cable network who is say, you know, it's trump derangement syndrome. >> they won't even talk about this. >> it's actually empowering donald trump, instead of just saying, you know, the guy, once the president of the united states, and he's blaming abraham lincoln for the civil war because lincoln refused to allow slavery to continue, maybe that's something we should focus on every day along with all of the other deranged things this lunatic says. >> there's no doubt about it.

when you hear donald trump, who was the inciter and, in my judgment, participant of the insurrection say that lincoln should have negotiated the first insurrection, the civil war, like you can negotiate with people saying we demand the right to keep slaves. and as one that had forefathers that were slaves, to look at this election, you have the leading candidate saying you could have negotiated that away, well, maybe we can keep some slaves or have a time frame or whatever, but still keep slavery, that's what he's blaming lincoln for not doing. to have another candidate not even bringing slavery up, we are dealing in a time that they are playing the game in politics of us against them, whether it's blacks, whether it's jews, whether it's latinos, and we cannot stand for this. for donald trump to say him

reading of the civil war book bs and saying he could have negotiated or he could see where negotiation was, it reminds me of when they asked him his favorite bible scripture, he said, "all of them." ask him what book he read where there was room to deal with the civil war differently, he'll say all the books because he hasn't read anything other than this kind of hitler theory of the big lie, throw it out there, blame it on somebody, in hitler's case, the jews. then you can advance your political career and america should not sanction that by voting for this man in iowa or anywhere else. >> and yet no prominent republican calming him out on this. in fact, the iowa caucus one week from today, he has a commanding lead, and at least at this moment in such a v a way to force ron desantis out of the race, and we'll see if nikki haley can have any final stand in new hampshire. but it looks like donald trump is on a glide path to the

nomination, setting up a rematch with president biden, and that is someone, president biden, who is calling out donald trump. we should not look past the president's speech on friday, some of his toughest language yet about his predecessor. when biden first took office, he wouldn't even say trump's name, thought we should move on as a nation. and he's privately difls appointed not just in the republican party but voters in some ways that trump still has this power, this hold. it's clear, he and his team say we have to call it out. he called trump despicable. as we played earlier in the morning, when he was talking about how trump not just latched at some of the january 6th violence but also about the hammer attack to pall pelosi's skull, and biden called trump a sick -- it was very clear what that next word meant to be before he caught himself. this is what the campaign is, joe and mika. we've been talking for months about the need to draw these contrasts and lay out the stakes for the american people.

and we have seen an accelerated version of that from president biden. we saw it on friday at valley forge. we'll hear it from him again today in charleston, south carolina, at the site of that racist mass shooting. he's making it clear for the american people just what we'd be getting if donald trump wins again. >> if you look at what this country is facing, elise stefanik, republican members of the senate that haven't spoken out but you know don't believe in what trump is saying, republicans in the house, republican party leaders, republican candidates, why won't you stand up? i mean, are you so devoid of any values? do you so want to destroy your party? do you want to distort the meaning of the constitution? do you have any core values? at some point, do republicans, even those who may not have a stake in this, who can sit in their senate jobs and wait for the next person to come along,

shouldn't republicans be standing up at this point together and saying what's right and reclaiming their party? what more needs to happen with donald trump for them to realize that they all need to do something? >> seven years? eight years? how long have we been saying this? >> joe biden doesn't have to be your number-one choice, but i'm thinking america might be. >> how long have we been asking this question, though? you have magazines that came out and had covers talking about being never trump. and then they engaged in the most rank anti-anti-trumpism. you had other people doing the same. you talk about elise stefanik. we met her -- i think one of her first days in congress, talked to her, and walked away thinking what everybody who talked to her back then thought was, wow, this is -- this is a good -- this is -- this is a good sign.

>> than the more seasoned members of congress. >> because she totally abandoned every value she ever had when it came to donald trump. >> yeah. >> and because she ran straight towards the riots, defending the riots, defending the worst aspects of trumpism, she is in a powerful position right now. and there are other people like her that are in a powerful position. mike johnson, who's speaker of the house, says i'm govrped by the bible. then he gets devoured by, what, the big lie. what did jesus say, blessed are the people who actually spread lies into this space? i didn't see that in the bee yacht -- beatitudes, rev.

talking about i'm governed by jesus, when. in, he got to power by the big lie. basically admitted to liz cheney he knew it was a lie but he just had to get in donald trump's -- you know, in donald trump's orbit. up these people, and to answer mika's question, it's all about power. we've all been around politicians where they'll sort of move lit this will way, move a little that way, be a little pragmatic here, be a little compromising there to get power. in donald trump's case, there is no middle ground here. you are either for the continuation of american democracy or you're for a man who has promised to terminate the constitution, execute generals, ban entire news networks, and exact revenge. he just said, i will throw my opponents in jail. that is what every one of these

republicans who are trying to have it both ways are supporting. and these cowards who might as well go back and read pro-democracy newspapers, apologizing for adolf hitler in the early 1930s, these cowards are a part of this, as well, now. where they're saying if you speak out against the tyranny of donald trump and what he promises to bring on america, then you are causing the rise of donald trump. >> what would john mccain say? >> and that is exactly how fascism started being purported and represented in this country in the early part of the 20th century, the silver shirts movement and other movements. and now you have people that are now actually distorting the bible and distorting christianity as they pay homage to a man that has practiced every divisive, hateful, and in many ways, in my opinion,

anti- the beatitudes, as you mentioned, that we've ever seen in the white house. they vowed to him. there's a scripture that says choose this day whom who ye shall serve. the speaker needs to answer that question. if he's saying he's this fundamental practicing christian, he needs to ask who's he really serving, christ or trump, when he's doing the things he's doing as speaker of the house. coming up, congress has reached a deal on spending levels, but that doesn't mean the threat of a government shutdown has completely gone away. we'll have the latest on what happens next when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) with the push of a button, constant contact's ai tools help you know what to say,

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welcome back. secretary of defense lloyd austin was admitted to the intensive care unit at walter reed national military medical center on monday, january 1st. but it was not made public until the following friday. the pentagon says the retired army general sought help after experiencing severe pain from an elective medical procedure that he had done last month. senior biden administration officials tell nbc news the pentagon waited three days to tell the white house about austin's hospitalization. the secretary released a statement over the weekend, taking full responsibility for not disclosing his medical condition, saying, he understands the concerns about transparency and he, quote, could have done a better job ensuring the public was appropriately informed. austin is still in the hospital, but the pentagon says he's resumed his duties friday evening and is recovering well.

joining us now, nbc news national security and military correspondent courtney kube. courtney, what more do we know? there are a lot of questions here about disclosure and also who was in charge. >> reporter: yeah. i mean, the details as we learn every new detail about this entire incident, it's more of a head-scratching scenario. so, as you said, secretary austin, he was admitted to the hospital on monday, new year's day, so a week ago today. we now know that he had some sort of an elective medical procedure about a week earlier on december 22nd. it required an overnight stay at the hospital at walter reed. he was released on the 23rd. but on new year's day, he started having severe pains and was taken to the hospital where he's now been for a week, mika. he was -- and while he was there, he was put into the icu. now, fast forward to last friday when all week long, we were told that secretary austin was on leave and no one really had any

idea that he was hospitalized all week long, let alone that he was in the icu. in fact, it took us digging to expose that fact, that he was not just in the hospital but that he was in intensive care. we still don't know what the e electric tich medical procedure is or how severe his situation, his medical case was at any point during this hospitalization. what we know is that on tuesday, now january 2nd, all of his responsibilities were transferred to deputy secretary of defense kathleen hicks. she was on vacation in puerto rico at the time. she was not told why she was assuming the responsibilities of the secretary until two days later on thursday. according to defense officials, as soon as she was told that, she started microsofting plans to come back to the u.s. but was told, it's okay, he'll resume his duties soon anyway, so don't worry about it. as this was unfolding, we also learned that, in fact, he did

not notify, nor anyone on his staff, notify the white house, president biden, national security adviser jake sullivan. they didn't find out about the hospitalization until thursday. there are a lot more questions than answers about this whole situation. we also know, as you said, secretary austin has taken responsibility for not disclosing this publicly to the media. but we still haven't heard exactly why it was that the white house wasn't notified. of course, secretary austin is in the nuclear chain of command. the white house, the national military command center, all have to know where he is and whether he's accessible at all times in case, you know, heaven forbid, there is some sort of an attack on the united states, or even an attack on washington, d.c., that he needs to be, you know, directly involved in the potential response to. what we did learn late last night was that his chief of staff, kelly maxman, was sick at the time, and now the pentagon is saying that was the reason that the white house wasn't

notified until thursday. the reality is that really doesn't pass the smell test, it doesn't make sense that no one else would have notified the white house in three days, mika and joe. coming up, we'll go live to the white house for a look at president biden's week ahead on the heels of his tough speech taking on donald trump directly. eugene daniels joins us.

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coming up, we'll go live to los angeles for a full recap of last night's golden globes, including which film emerged as the movie to beat in the upcoming oscar race. before we go to break, this week, i'll be hosting a know your value event at the white house with first lady dr. jill biden. we're going to be in the east room discussing the crucial year ahead. we'd love to get your input on

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no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. president biden will travel to charleston, south carolina, later today to deliver a campaign speech at the mother emmanuel church, which is the site of the 2015 mass shooting where an admitted white supremacist murdered nine black parishioners during a bible study. the biden campaign says his speech will note it is the responsibility of elected officials to root out the kind of hate that motivated the 2015 shooting.

biden is also expected to warn against the trump campaign, saying it's fueled by a hate-filled agenda that runs counter to what america is. >> and of course reverend al, you of course have republican politicians who get very incensed when you start talking about white supremacy, some suggesting there's no such thing, that it's made up by the media. >> no, and i think that by president biden going back to charleston today to mother emmanuel underscores how ludicrous it is to deny white supremacy. the one who killed these nine people at bible study, including the pastor, who i knew, he said himself, the shooter, that i'm a white supremacist. this is not something that somebody put on him. and i remember you and mika, joe, going down and did this show in front of the church days

after that. i was there with you. i spoke at two of the funerals. the whole country gripped with the fact that white supremacy was alive and well. and for the president to go and underscore that today i think is very important because it gives us reason to be concerned about those that try to mainstream that into the american political continue test of the year. joining us now from south carolina is the chairman of the democratic national committee, jaime harrison. jaime, what are you expecting to hear from the president today? and making the connection between donald trump and white supremacy? >> joe and mika, it's so great to see all of you, reverend al. today will be emotional for us in south carolina. if you've ever been to south carolina, you know the

significant of mother emanuel church, not just the folks in charleston but i think to black folks throughout the south. this was a place where churchgoers met in secret when black churches were banned throughout the south. it was a place where black south people came together to organize the bowl and the place where -- where nine beautiful souls were taken away from us in 2015. so it's going to be -- this is not a campaign stop. this is -- this is really one of those moments in which we're going to see who joe biden is. this is a man with more clarity. but this is a man that, when there were no cameras, he and dr. biden went to worship with the families and the parishioners at mother emanuel after that massacre. we all know about barack obama being there and singing "amazing grace." but many people don't know that

joe biden and dr. biden went there to worship with those parishioners. he embodies that whole notion, rev, as you know, we may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. and he is a man who has seen so much pain, decided to go and express that there is light in the morning. and so, he's going to be here to express freedom that black folks should be able to go and pray in their church freely without having to look around their shoulders worried about whether or not somebody's come to take away their lives just because of the color of their skin. come back to that church, to come back with those families, to come back to the state of south carolina and talk about freedom and the importance of freedom. black folks understand the

struggle. we continue to struggle for freedom in this nation. i think joe biden is going to speak to that today. >> one of the things that came to mind when it was announced he was going back to charleston to mother emanuel is i remember him in january of 2020, he spoke for our martin luther king breakfast in washington. he said this guy, what he did with charlottesville, talking about trump and these good people on both sides, i think i really am going to run. that's when we first started why he wanted to run, and then he did a little while later run. talk about how he has really tried to deal with this issue of anti-semitism and race. in charlottesville they were marching against both blacks and

jews and islamophobia. contrast it to donald trump, who's now talking coming into this weekend about lincoln could have negotiated a civil war or a former governor of south carolina that acts like slavery wasn't the central part of what the civil war was about. >> this is the thing about joe biden. the contrast is so clear between donald trump and himself. he said got into the battle because he said we're battling for the soul of the nation. the former governor of south carolina, the reason cessation happened is because of slavery. it's even listed in the articles

of suss succession. joe biden understands very clearly what this battle is all about and how central black folks are to this battle. you think about everything he's done. the first thing he did before he became the president of the united states, african-american woman vice president breaking through that glass ceiling, african-american woman on the supreme court. instead of having block folks at the back of the bus under joe biden, we are driving the bus. that's what's so important right now and why i'm so proud. i'm the second black person to

be elected chair of the dnc. it was because of joe biden saying let's give this guy a chance. let's have this voice representing in terms of how this party moves forward. this is central to who he is. it is about who joe biden and what he fights for every day for all americans and specifically so black americans understand he sees them and he's fighting for them every day. coming up, donald trump is expected to be in court this week for closing arguments in his new york civil fraud trial. his new york civil fraud trial

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somebody asked me, is president xi of china -- he controls 1.4 billion people ruthlessless, ruthlessly. no games, right? they said, is president xi of china a brilliant man? i said, yes, he is, he's a brilliant man. next day, trump said president xi is brilliant. i said, yeah, i did. they want me to say, no, he's not a very smart guy. he just runs 1.4 billion people with an iron fist. it's crazy. >> yeah, it is crazy, donald. that's just his latest praise from a dictator, just a small sample from his crazy comments

in iowa. now we're exactly one week away from the caucuses there. the question is, do they really love dictators in des moines? donald trump has just said he thinks the world of president xi. ruthlessly, he says it twice. ruthlessly, he runs 1.4 billion people, ruthlessly, no apologies there. it's like talking about his love letters to kim jong-un. talking about what a wonderful leader he is. we all know about vladimir putin. he goes on and on and on. the question is, we know donald trump loves dictators. we know he admires dictators. we know according to ivana trump telling "vanity fair" that he kept adolph hitler's speeches by his bedside.

we know all that. the question is, is that really where republicans want to continue taking their party? well, that's where we start our fourth hour. garrett haake has more on a crazy weekend from iowa. >> reporter: this morning, caucus crunch time in iowa with the 2024 campaign kicking off one week from today. >> hello, iowa. happy new year. >> reporter: polling shows it's donald trump's race to lose. mr. trump leading the hawkeye state by a wide margin, urging his supporters not to be complacent. >> pretend you're one point down. get out and vote, vote, vote. you have to do it by big, big margins. >> reporter: downplaying the violence in the january 6th attack on the capitol and calling those convicted of

crimes for that day hostages. >> they have to release the j6 hostages. >> reporter: republican congresswoman elise stefanik defending his comments. >> i have concerns about the treatment of january 6th hostages. >> reporter: with more than $100 million spent on tv ads alone in iowa so far, the caucuses now shaping up to be a battle for second place, between nikki haley and ron desantis, trading barbs on the trail this weekend. >> donald trump is running for his issues. nikki haley is running for her donor's issues. >> but every single commercial that ron desantis has put on the air, there's not an ounce of truth. >> reporter: the candidates battling over a dwindling pool of undecided voters. >> i'm excited about desantis and haley. >> reporter: how do you think you'll make that final decision? >> i think it's going to come

down to who's talking about the things that affect me every day. >> well, it's fascinating. i say fascinating. it's actually sick. if you look at elise stefanik using that same language, the january 6th hostages, of course, they use hostages at a time when there are still americans being held hostage by hamas, americans stolen from their homes in israel, israelis, jews being held hostage still today, all this time after october 7th, being held hostage in tunnels. and yet, donald trump seeks the same status for people that stormed the united states capitol, beat the hell out of cops and tried to stop the constitutional practice of counting electoral votes.

you hear elise stefanik and other republicans in the crowd in iowa cheering along. this is where the party has gone. and it looks like, if past is prologue, it looks like republicans are setting themselves up for another election loss. >> there was some really good reporting all weekend long about the anniversary of the january 6th insurrection. some of the most important has traced just how trump regained power. we remember the morning of january 7th, how many republicans denounced what he did, even some of his most loyal followers, that he quietly left the white house on january 20th, didn't go to president biden's inauguration, snuck out the back and flew back to palm beach.

kevin mccarthy went down to mar-a-lago a few weeks later. mitch mcconnell decided not to whip votes for a conviction in trump's impeachment trial. he slowly has regained power. he's made january 6th part of the appeal. that's what's so extraordinary. it reenforces the two different realities we are in. most americans see that. polling backs this un. they see a riot. they see something un-american, something they want to reject. republicans now believe trump when he downplays it. maybe it was antifa, maybe it was the fbi, whatever his lie is of the moment. and now it's these are hostages, not convicts, hostages being held unfairly by the deep state, by the administration, the same administration, trump argues, that's trying to put him behind bars too as part of all these

criminal cases. that argument is working for the republican party. what democrats are so desperately trying to do is make sure it doesn't work come the general election. >> it's one reality and one lie. they continue to live the big lie while pointing at bibles saying that's what they're living their lives by. they're actually living by the big lie, the big lie about an election that they lie about saying stolen. and now they're completely changing the reality of what happened on january 6th to fit into their lie. tomorrow, donald trump is going to be attending an appeals court hearing on his claim of presidential immunity for the january 6th election interference case. let's bring in jonathan karl. he's the author of the book "tired of winning, donald trump and the end of the grand old party." he's here with new reporting on

what the special counsel has learned about trump's inaction during the january 6th insurrection. also with us, former litigator lisa rubin. reverend al sharpton also with us. jonathan karl, talk about the new reporting on donald trump's inaction. that's what we kept hearing on january 6th about trump not only watching as people were running in, but liz cheney talked about how he would rewind his dvr to watch the most violent moments of the insurrection when cops were getting their heads bashed in. talk about this new reporting, though. >> joe, this is really the defining hours of the trump presidency, what trump was doing in the white house while the attack was under way. we've heard from liz cheney and others, but now what the special counsel has done is they've methodically gone through and spoken to everybody who was with

trump during that time, people that refused to talk to the january 6th committee, like dan scavino, who's been working for trump since he was his caddie as a 15-year-old and ran the twitter account. also the white house counsel's office lawyers, some of whom did speak to the january 6th committee, but refused to speak about what they said to trump and what trump said to them, citing executive privilege. jack smith went to court and fought that and got the right to question them. dan scavino quite vividly described he was with trump almost the entire time, describing how he went in to that dining room off the oval office to try to plead with trump to do something to call off the rioters. obviously we know other went in. mark meadows went in.

ivanka trump went in. pat cippalone went in. dan scavino describes trump sitting there, arms folded, intently staring at the television, nonresponsive to pleas to do something, angry. he told the special counsel, according to our sources, that people that were attacking the capitol were, quote, angry on his behalf. this is why trump didn't want to call in the national guard. this is why trump didn't want to tell people to go home, because he believed that they were carrying out his wishes. they were, in scavino's words -- this is not liz cheney talking. this is dan scavino, his most trusted advadvisor, saying thes people were angry on trump's behalf. >> lisa rubin, we know everybody

in trump's inner circle. dan scavino had been trump's caddie since he was a teenager, was around him constantly. he ran his twitter account. we heard about ivanka running in trying to stop him from doing it. we have texts from don junior trying to get his father to stop this. sean hannity, laura ingram. everybody in trump's inner orbit, outer orbit, all around, his lawyers, all the staff in the white house, everybody begging him to stop this. yet, he refused. he refused despite the fact we also learned from testimony to jack smith that trump knew he lost. >> that's right. to me mind, joe, the most important part of yesterday's

reporting isn't just about trump's inaction. it's about what he did when scavino left the room. my recollection is that scavino, after trying for 20 minutes to get trump to deescalate what was happening at the capitol through twitter, gave up. he left the oval office. at that point, that's when trump of his own volition and alone tweeted the critical "mike pence did not have the courage" tweet. at that point, folks in the white house counsel's office came running in search of dan scavino and said, how did you let this get posted? scavino said, i didn't do it. jack smith likely not only has dan scavino's testimony on that, but he has the data to back that up. the special counsel's office entered a filing about three expert witnesses whose testimony they intend to offer at trial.

one of them is the person who has gone through the data from two cell phones, one belonging to donald trump and one belonging to dan scavino. that person is expected to testify when trump had access to his twitter account, when it was open and which devices sent which messages. they must know already, joe, that that tweet was written by former president trump and written by him when he was alone in that oval office dining room. that's damning. >> certainly that tweet helped put vice president pence in that much more danger. one of trump's other aides, nick luna came to trump, per your reporting, and suggested trump was in trouble. the president sort of suggests who cares? >> on the point about the cell phones, there were only two

people -- and this is part of what scavino has tolding investigators, according to our sources, there were only two people authorized to tweet on donald trump's account. it was donald trump and it was dan scavino. the tweet about the vice president not having the courage was from the president. the president did that alone. there were two tweets often pointed to by people who try to defend trump's actions on this day, one where he said stay peaceful, don't harm the capitol police, stay peaceful to a crowd that was not peaceful. that was from dan scavino. that was not from donald trump. that was actually from dan scavino. he got trump, after some effort, to agree to send that tweet out. it was from dan scavino's phone, not trump's. in terms of the vice president, it was nick luna who went in to tell trump that mike pence had

to b evacuated the senate chamber and tak to a secure location, a location we now know was beneath t capitol building. trump's response when his personal aide is telling him that the vice president had to be evacuated because of the violence tha cld be a threat to his life, trump's response was two words, according to na "so what"? he hears his vice president has been evacuated because of violence from his supporters and trump's comment is so what? he told me when i asked him were you concerned for pence, he said no, i wasn't concerned. i said, you heard the chants. they were saying "hang mike pence." trump said to me, well, they were angry. how can you pass on a fraudulent

vote? he was in almost realtime justifying to me in an on-the-record interview the chants of his supporters who were calling for the execution of mike pence. again, it comes back to what scavino said, which is recounting how trump was saying that people in the capitol were angry on his behalf. that's why he didn't want to call them off. they were angry on his behalf. >> lisa, hearing what jonathan karl has in his book and all that we are hearing, we have the hearing tomorrow on the immunity issue. trump himself is supposed to attend. how do you think that the courts will deal with this in the context of all of this behavior now that jonathan has revealed and the fact that to deal with giing immunity to all of this

would almost give a president the right to do any and everything? how do you read how the courts will deal with this? and what is the significance that trump has decided he is going to attend this hearing. >> let's start with the significance of trump attending. what trump is trying to do is what he has done in the civil fraud trial. if he shows up, it's a fundraising vehicle for him and a chance to change the narrative. there is nothing in the text structure or history of the constitution that suggests that our founders and framers intended for a former president to be criminally immune from prosecution where he has alleged misdeeds of the type that we're talking. the reporting that john and his colleagues have done only

amplifies the reason why a president should not be immune to things like january 6th and the obstruction of the official proceeding trump participated in and conspired to achieve. i don't think the judge will directly reference that reporting, but they are people too and they can't wall themselves off from the conversations we're having as a nation about trump complicity here and his responsibility for stoking and exploiting the actions at the capitol. >> lisa rubin, thank you so much. former president barack obama is reportedly sharing his concerns about the state of president biden's reelection campaign. sources told the "washington post" that obama discussed it directly with biden at a private lunch at the white house in recent months. that comes as president biden travels to charleston, south carolina, later today. he'll be delivering a campaign speech at the mother emanuel

church, the site of the 2015 mass shooting where nine parishioners were murdered during their bible study. let's bring in eugene daniels. he's a "morning joe" senior contributor. thank you so much for being with us, first of all. talk about that "washington post" story, if you will, about barack obama. it's not the first time he's gone in expressing his concerns about donald trump. and also the fact that we saw a bit more of a fiery speech from joe biden on friday. should we expect more of that as we move forward? >> absolutely, you should expect that. president obama continues to be the most popular democrat in the country for the most part. he knows this. so his ability to go to his former vice president and say, look, i need you guys to make it seem like you're taking donald

trump more seriously and we start seeing the campaign going harder at donald trump and making that contrast between the two men. and then going again and saying we need to see more of a bolstered campaign, something that looked and feels like a campaign. that's something president obama is echoing from democrats across the spectrum in washington, d.c. and across the country. this campaign has decided to lean very heavily on the dnc in a way that people haven't seen before. the way the campaign has always put it to us is that people don't understand how they're working and doing it, but they have started to announce they're hiring in a lot more key battleground states. in a call the other day they talked about having hundreds and hundreds of people by the summer. so signaling to democrats across the country, hey, you can chill out, we're going to build that campaign that's going to look

differently in the coming months. we did see president biden on friday being fiery. he called president trump sick. he almost cursed there. the focus that we are seeing right now for this campaign as it's really ramping up is kind of at the heart of understanding how this campaign wants everyone to view this race. you have president biden today going to mother emanuel talking in front of black voters about not just donald trump and maga republicans, they're going to say maga republicans are running on a hate-fuelled dangerous agenda that is the polar opposite of who we are as americans, but also reminding black voters kind of what the trump years felt like. you talk to folks on the campaign. they'll say people don't remember. donald trump isn't in the news for the average american.

you have vice president kamala harris on saturday in south carolina as well in myrtle beach talking to a large group of 1200 older black women talking about freedom and fundamental freedom. that is what the campaign says they want folks to see. it's going to take a team effort around the country to fight back hate and remember what happened with donald trump post 2016 and on and what he promises to do and, more importantly, what the difference is between the two campaigns. >> eugene daniels, thank you so much as always. we appreciate it. rev, let's talk about this focus we're seeing from joe biden across south carolina, whether it's the vice president or the president in south carolina. let's talk about the concerns right now that have people like

our friend jim clyburn that joe biden is not getting the rock solid support from the black community that he needs to win the election, and also talk about barack obama once again going in talking to president biden, expressing his concerns about donald trump. i am curious, is joe biden doing enough in reaching out to black voters yet? do you think this is the start of a new campaign approach that he desperately needs to start? >> i definitely think there is a need to start a new campaign. i get a lot of blacks complaining. i don't think there will be a shift to trump. my concern is, as congressman clyburn has stated, is turnout

and enthusiasm. i think people need to be reminded of the joe biden that will stand up and deal with things like the george floyd justice in policing act, which he stood for and where he made sure that blacks were involved and others in getting some of the funds that came for infrastructure and that came from the infrastructure bill or came with inflation reduction. there is a need far real campaign to focus on what he's done for the black community when it is clear that it is south carolina and the black community, led by jim clyburn, that gave him the nomination in the first place. for barack obama to come in, who is by far the most popular democrat and by far in the black community, i think it's a good thing, but it's barack obama, despite the lofty place he has in history, has his ear to the ground and he's hearing the

rumblings on the ground. that's why he went in to suggest other things that it's been reported he suggested. to say these things in public as clyburn is saying and i'm saying is not to hurt the campaign. it's to help them. it's to say you're in trouble and you need to deal with it, trouble by lack of enthusiasm and turnout. >> john karl, i know you've heard in your reporting democrats very concerned. they keep waiting for the campaign to begin. maybe they saw the start of that on friday. it's so fascinating that the complaints i've been hearing barack obama actually expressed to joe biden, which was get your people out of the white house. get them on the campaign where

they can actually be helping you every day and do it now. that's just not happening. >> democrats and allies of president biden have been terrified for months about the prospects that you could have a biden/trump rematch that is effectively a tossup that he could actually lose. a coue months ago the "new york times" came out with that first round of battleground state polls that showed trump actually ahead of biden in five out of the six key battleground states. they've been terrified and looking for a sense of urgency out of the biden team. yes, get out and make this a campaign. i think there is some concern that the focus needs to be more than just about the evils of a

potential return of donald trump. the focus needs to be on touting the biden record and talking about accomplishments and an agenda for a second term. >> jonathan lemire, just in closing, this is not just barack obama. karl rove wrote a column about this a month or two ago. you can't run a presidential campaign from inside the white house. i know karl rove was saying he's got to get his team that helped him win in 2020 out of the white house on the campaign. barack obama is saying the same thing. political pros left and right are saying the same thing. what have you heard? what is the answer why joe biden has not done that? >> first, there is a stubbornness that comes with joe biden that they point to our approach worked in 2020 and 2022

and last year. they're not going to make a decision based on media or pundit pressure. that said, it's more of a timeline issue. i think there is an expectation that those moves will come. in 2023, in the last few months, it was a focus on fundraising. president biden didn't have much in the way of major events. he had a lot of closed-door fundraisers. the plan is once the counter turns to 2024, which it has now done, we're going to see him in public much more often. valley forge friday, charleston today. and we'll see him and the vice president a lot in south carolina between now and when the first democratic primary is in the reshuffled calendar. as things get launched in earnest, we will see some of his senior staff move from washington to wilmington or be

more empowered to make decisions without running everything through the white house. we should expect structure to change as the campaign heats up. >> the clock is ticking. the new book is titled "tired of winning," jonathan karl thanks so much for being here. >> thanks for having me, joe. coming up on "morning joe," the threat of government shutdown is still looming in washington despite a deal on a spending bill. plus, the latest on a frightening incident involving a popular boeing jet. part of the plane came apart mid flight. "morning joe" will be right back. flight "morning joe" will be right back hey, you should try new robitussin honey medi-soothers for long-lasting cough and sore throat relief. try new robitussin lozenges with real medicine and find your voice.

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some interesting news

breaking this weekend. congress could be on track to avoid a looming government shutdownfter leaders from both parties reached a spending deal over the weekend. there's one wrinkle, though. it's not clear congress will be able to pass it in time to keep the government open. let's bring in nbc news senior national political reporter sahil kapur. let's talk about this deal. i've got to say going through a couple of these fights, it's usually the top line that the two sides can't agree on. the fact that you have the speaker of the house and chuck schumer, leader of the senate, agreeing on that top line number is a great start. how did they get there? >> the deal is certainly a breakthrough, but is it enough to prevent the government shutdown? that is still an open question. the agreement announced by house speaker johnson and senate majority leader schumer is there's 1.95 trillion in overall

spending, a majority of that for the military and domestic spending demanded by democrats. there are $2.1 billion cuts in unspent covid funds and irs funds. schumer told senators on a call yesterday it's a good deal for democrats and the country, according to a source on the call that i spoke to. the senate's top appropriators patti murray and susan collins praised the deal as a step toward completing the funding bills. of course, this is just a start. the house would still have to write the bills and get the votes and pass them in this divided government. that will be no easy task. the biggest obstacle is a familiar one, opposition from hard-right republicans who are alrey trashing the deal.

here's coressman chip roy. he calls the deal terrible. the freedom caucus in a statement says the deal is worse than they thought. that marjorie taylogreene announced she's a no last night. all in all, speaker johnson has a real headache on his hands taming the hard right and getting this through the house. there are just 11 days before part of the government shutdown. the race against the clock begins now. >> lots of luck to the speaker. the honeymoon is over. sahil kapur, thank you so much. let's bring in dom chu. dom, i'm curious, we don't know

how exactly this is going to play out on the hill, but it is a good start for those who don't want to see the federal government have a car wreck. how are the markets reacting? >> calmly. the idea that you have the odds of a potential government shutdown later on this month may be shrinking incrementally. markets have taken that spirit of kind of no elation, no panic and interest rates really in the stock market overall have remained relatively steady although the markets are seeing a little bit of downside prsure, but not in panic and not related to what's happening in washington, d.c. for now, the bigger focus remains on what the fed is going to do or not do with interest rates as we progress through this possible government

shutdown deadline and possibility of inflationary pressure picking up. the budget impasse over the threats of government shutdowns do have an impact on america's economic picture broadly if it leads to things like a slowdown in the economy. inflation is the key. speaking of inflation, it is a huge topic of interest across the atlantic right now, because what we did see is an uptick in price pressures in the euro zone. inflation gained about 2.9% in december which is higher than the 2.4% in november but slightly below what economists were forecasting. in this case, there isn't a massive amount o concern just yet, because the hotter read month over month had a lot to do with tougher comparisons over price levels last year.

what it does do possibly is put the european central bank more on a holding pattern when it comes to its own decisions about when and whether to lose or lower interest rates to the downside. this is still an inflation-driven story much more than it is possibly about the government shutdown. >> dom, you're also following the fallout from the mid-flight incident on an alaskan airlines flight. let's get the details from tom costello. >> reporter: this morning, a critical discovery after that very close call in the skies. >> i'm excited to announce that we found the door plug. >> reporter: the ntsb saying overnight a teacher in portland contacted investigators after he found the missing piece, a door plug, in his back yard two days after the decompression expelosi

explosion. one teenage boy had his shirt pulled off of him. a sock was found stuck in the plane's frame. a flight attendant suffered a knee injury. the ntsb chief said if it happened at a cruising altitude of 30,000 feet, it could have been deadly with passengers pulled out of the hole. >> there could have been some significant consequences for the passengers that were seated in that area of the plug and throughout the cabin really. >> reporter: as cold wind ripped through the cabin, the force of the explosion pulled the cockpit door open, slamming it against the lavatory. passengers described terror on board. >> there was a big boom in the rear of the plane. >> my focus in that moment was just breathe into the oxygen

mask and trust that the flight crew will do everything they can to keep us safe. >> reporter: it happened behind the plane's left wing where a hole is cut for an optional emergency exit, but alaska airlines didn't need it, so the door was plugged and sealed, leaving an ordinary window. investigators will look at whether that plug was properly bolted in place during manufacturing. the faa has grounded max 9s forcing the cancellation of hundreds of flights. >> older people may remember this. in 1988 there was an aloha air accident where there was a huge hole that was ripped up in the fuselage. actually, a crew member was lost in that. the rest of the crew and passengers were saved, but that was a 737, but that happened in

1988. we've been led to believe we're far beyond something like this ever happening in at least domestic aviation. i would take it that boeing shares have dropped. what impact is this going to have on the markets? >> yes, i was born. i was 11 years old in 1988, so i don't remember exactly what happened are with that flight. boeing shares are down 8 or 9%. it's driving some of the downside pressure on the dow right now. to give you an idea just how important it is, on an average day over the last few weeks, boeing shares trade roughly 5 million shares in an entire day. we've already seen 4 million shares trade in the first ten minutes y. the other places we are

watching, as tom points out in his story, are in stocks like as airlines and united airlines. those two ces are the biggest operators of thismodel, the boeing 737 max 9 jet. to be fair, this max 9 yet is not a big part of the boeing offerings out there. there is the boeing 737 8 jet that was very embattled following crashes in 2018 and 2019 that is just starting to get its legs underneath it again. we have seen with boeing in 2018 and 2019 and back in 2022 involving another 737 800 jet in china, boeing shares do typically take a hit and to a significant degree. we'll see whether or not it plays out this time. again, no fatalities is a good sign. boeing shares are down 9%.

>> dom chu, thank you so much. the political organization no labels is qualified to appear on the ballot in maine for this year's presidential election. it's the 13th state to allow the group onto its ballot. no labels is pushing to gain access in 14 other states. our next guests cowrote an op-ed in newsweek about the threat to the biden campaign this third-party bid poses. what's the danger? >> well, the danger is one the white house is very concerned about, not only no labels but other third-party candidates. what we looked at is weighing that variable against the variable the white house has a lot of confidence in, which is the passion of voters relative to the pro choice abortion issue

and how the two weigh against each other in terms of how biden prospects look for 2024. the third party candidacy issue is really real. the "wall street journal" recently polled on that. when the spectrum of third-party candidates that have some real likelihood of appearing on the ballot were put out there, 17% of voters indicated they would vote for a third-party candidate and biden lost to trump by 6%. the youth vote, which is particularly attracted to third parties when presented, trump wins the youth vote by 13%. >> some of that polling seems a little suspect, but there is real danger from a third party. you talk about in the piece offsetting that abortion issue. how does that happen? >> first, especially no labels needs to stop their campaign.

that's probably the biggest danger. but the issue of abortion being on the ballot especially in a state like florida could really change turnout for joe biden, especially when you look at what happened in 2022 versus 2018. the difference in turnout was over ten points. in 2018, ron desantis won by less than 1%. when it was in the 50s, ron desantis won. ron desantis passed a six-week abortion ban, which independent women are furious about. with that on the ballot, they have the signatures. there will be definitely a court case over it. but if they could get that on the ballot, i really believe florida could be in play, which would certainly help the biden campaign given some of the problems in other states

especially with third-party candidates. >> if they can get this on the ballot in florida and get out their base vote in the black community with desantis banning black history books and other things and student debt loans that people don't talk about, biden got through and trump's supreme court got finished, which gets them a lot of student votes. isn't that key for florida and other states dealing with abortion and these other issues that go to turnout for their base? >> absolutely. abortion has proven to be a big turnout issue, even in red states, as we've seen in kansas, ohio. people come out on this issue who support the pro choice side. the variable here is this, it seems to matter most when there is something on the ballot that really puts this at stake in the state, meaning, a constitutional amendment of some kind where

this is really put to the people, how is your state going to handle abortion going forward. it's not on the ballot in georgia, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. the only two swing states it will be on the ballot on is nevada and arizona. if you look at arizona and nevada having that on the ballot and hopefully putting biden over the line there, even if he loses those other swing states, the reason susan and i are so focused on florida is that the abortion issue can pull it out for biden and florida. he can win still with 273 electoral votes and that would do it. so florida becomes critical that this issue be on the ballot. >> the news piece for newsweek is online now. up next, oppenheimer came out a big winner at the golden globes last night and for good reason. we're going to go to l.a. for a

recap of hollywood's award season kickoff. award season kkoicff

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and the golden globe goes to "oppenheimer!" >> and the golden globe goes to killian murphy. >> this is killian murphy's second nomination and first win. >> and the golden globe goes to christopher nolan.

>> this is christopher nolan's sixth nomination and first win. >> and the golden globe goes to robert downey jr. >> dozens of folks have come up to me since the summertime saying i was, i quote, unrecognizebly subtle as leonard strauss. to my fellow nominees, let's not pretend this is a compliment. this is a first-time. this is more of a most improved player thing. >> oh, my god. robert downey jr. with self-deprecating humor as he accepted the golden globe for best supporting actor in a motion picture las night. what a huge night for "oppenheimer." at huge year for christopher nolan, best director, best

leading actor, best original score, an extraordinary original score to go along with an extraordinary movie. let's go to los angeles right now. nbc news entertainment correspondent chloe melas, also former editor of "the hollywood reporter" matthew bell me. chloe, here's the deal. i'm so used to looking at these award shows going what, what? who? what was that? oh, okay. i need to see that some day. i'm telling you, this was just all fan service. "oppenheimer," my favorite movie. "the bear," my favorite tv show. "succession," who hasn't been pulled in with "succession?" this was a great night for those of us who like those things. take us inside there and talk about how this really was -- this was christopher nolan's party, right? we were all just guests watching

christopher nolan's party. >> first of all, joe, i was in that ballroom. it was my second time sitting in there, and there was a stark contrast to last year. the energy was palpable, given the months of the hollywood shutdown due to the strikes. people were just excited to be back. to the point, joe, at some points i couldn't even hear the show because there was so much joip joy. people were talking. tons of celebrities. elbow to elbow. my table, meryl streep's table, christopher nolan's table. jo koy did his best for some laughs. the monologue did fall a bit flat. made comments that the people were not laughing at were the jokes he did not write. like you said, "oppenheimer," winning five golden globes, that's because people went and saw it. remember barbenheimer, both

grossed over a billion at the box office. "barbie" winning the first golden globe award, the inaugural for cinematic and box office achievement. don't forget, margot robbie who stars in that movie, she's a brain child behind this. she's a producer on that with her husband. it was a big moment. the cameras panned over to taylor swift. she beat out taylor swift. everyone was talking about where is taylor swift? it was like being at an nfl game. people were looking for her. like you said, "succession," taking four awards. karen cull ken working for playing roman roy. big night for warners brothers discovery. he had a hilarious speech. it was his first win. like you said, other big shows, "beef," "bear," winning as best limited series for beef, best

comedy for bear. beef making history with ally wong and stephen yeun, first asian american to win best actress, first asian american man to win in his category. again, what you saw at the globes, i don't know if it's going to be a foreshadowing of what's going to happen at the oscars, but the things that won are the things that people watched. that's the big takeaway. really the awards were what the people wanted, truly. >> all right. nbc's chloe melas, thank you so much. greatly appreciate you taking us into the room and the search for taylor. matthew, i think it was a celebration, obviously, if you were involved in christopher nolan's extraordinary project. at the same time, you got a sense it wasn't just that people loved the movie. it was for a lot of us a return to the theaters, post covid.

this was the big project, the godfather, "raiders of the lost ark." this was special when you went in to see that movie and you felt the joy last night. >> hollywood has had a really tough year, two strikes, six months of shutdown, a real question a as to whether the american public even wants to celebrate these people. then you've got a movie like this that grosses $950 million in theaters, is the kind of old school prestige movie that used to win awards -- when you looked back to last year, the top two winners were the fable mans and the benjis of an sheeran. not movies that mainstream moviegoers actually saw. i think the globes are looking at the land skate. this movie checks all the boxes. by winning here, it picks up momentum for oscar night. they're going to foreshadow what

we'll see with the oscars. "oppenheimer" is the movie to beat for the oscars. >> no court about it. "the bear" is one of the tv series. i think heilemann told me. finally i sat and watched it. my whole family shot through two seasons in like a week. it was just an incredible, incredible tv series and really, really grabbed hollywood by the heart strings. >> absolutely. the bear is an interesting one. this is also up tore several emmys. the emmys are next week because they were declared from september because of the strikes. it was entering, "the bear" won last night at the globes for season two. next week at the emmys, it's up for its season one. so you could see the same people up on stage next week at the emmys, but for a different season of the same show.

>> and finally, with a few seconds left, "succession" quite a sendoff and got well deserved awards last night. >> absolutely. this is like the gift that keeps on giving for hbo. they would love it if they could just keep getting up -- >> all right. matthew is frozen on us. we will get him back. we've got, as he said, we've got the emmys coming up next week. matthew bellamy, thank you so much. thank you all for watching "morning joe" today. much breaking news throughout the day. stay with us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," get ready, one week and counting until the iowa caucuses and the official start of the 2024 campaign. can any republican catch up with