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tonight on "the reidout" -- >> what about 2024? >> we will see if this is a legal and valid election. >> just to be very clear, i don't hear you committed to certifying the election results. will you only commit to certify the results if -- >> if they're constitutional. >> does that mean former president trump wins? >> it phenes if they're unconstitutional. what we saw in 2020 was unconstitutional circumventing of the constitution. >> elise stefanik refusing to commit to certifying the will of the voters if trump loses. as trump himself refuses to sign a pledge not to overthrow the government. also tonight, president biden who unlike trump, supports democracy, took his message to mother emanuel ame church in charleston. amid growing concerns about his standing with black voters. but we begin tonight with

the january 6th insurrection. more specifically, what went down before the violent mob stormed the u.s. capitol. at a, quote/unquote, news network called fox. as author and journalist brian stelter notes, by the time donald trump spoke at the ellipse on the 6th, right wing media had been promising a showdown in d.c. for weeks. and fox had been adding fuel to the fire. >> we, you the american people, deserve better. it is a national disgrace how some states have handled this election. >> the democrats have been trying to both block his presidency, to overthrow his presidency through impeachment, as well as absolute, in my judgment, treason. >> if we don't fight on january 6th on the floor of the senate and the house, that is the joint meeting of congress, on these electors, we're done. >> even that very morning, fox

was covering the events that led up to the insurrection like they were participants. playing up that there would be drama on the hill and turning it all into a spectacle. >> it's not hyperbole. it feels like a constitutional tinder box for a lot of reasons will cain pointed out. we're at an inflection point where both sides of the country believe fundamentally different things. >> we believe the president will take the stage at 11:00, then the big show continues on capitol hill with the fight over the electoral college. >> what big show? at that point, the election was over. the courts had spoken, the counting of electoral votes on the 6th was just a formality, one that happens every four years with zero media attention or fanfare. like announcing the oscar winner, you open the envelope and say the name, you don't decide then and there who the winner is. that part has been done. but fox wanted vowers to believe this was different. they also took trump's lie-filled speech in its

entirety live even when he said this. >> and we fight. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> and so that is what his supporters did. and what was trump doing when all hell broke loose just like he called for? absolutely nothing. reporting from abc news this weekend veal new details that special counsel jack smith's team have uncovered about trum refusal to help stop the attack, as he sat watching tv inside the white house. sources said trump's former deputy chief of staff dan scavino told smith's inveigators as the violence began to escalate that day, trump was just n interested in doing more to stop it. sources also said former trump aide nick loona told federal investigators when trump was informed that vice president mike pence had to be rushed to a secure location, trump onde so at?

also, sources said after unsuccessfullyryin for up to 20 minutes to persuade trump to release some sort of calming statement, scavino and others walked out of the dining room leaving trump alone. that is when, according to sources, trump posted a message on his twitter account sing that pence, quote, didn't have thege to do what should have been done. unquote. more than half anour after trump was first pressed to take some sort of action, trump finally let scavino post a message on trump's twitter account telling supporters to back law enforcement and stay peaceful. it was at 2:38 p.m. now, trump is set to appear in court tomorrow as his lawyers argue that he is immune from prosecution for his attempt to overturn the election because he was president at the time, and it was all part of his official duties which, spoiler alert, it was not. at that point, his only official duty was to pack up his stuff

and go home to mar-a-lago. joining me now is timothy hathy, and brian stelter, special correspondent for vanity hair, host of the inside the hive podcast, and author of the book, network of lies. and brian, i do want to start with you because your twitter thread inspired this segment. >> thank you. >> i just want to take you back. well, thank you, because it was a good reminder that fox didn't just start lying about the election on january 6th. and dominion and the smartmatic lawsuits because of what they did that day. it was leading up to that. they were giving their viewers false hope about the fact that somehow donald trump's loss could be reversed? >> right, and promising a fight . all the coverage over the weekend of the january 6th anniversary, look, i was a part of it, part of the problem probably on social media. we all focused so much on that

single day, and there's lot of good reasons why, but january 6th has become shorthand for something much, much bigger. i think that's the challenge for anybody reality based, democrats, moderates, independents, chris christie, anybody in the reality based world, we have to make clear that we're talking when we say january 6th about something that actually built up for months and months and months. ultimately, this is about the entire trump presidency, and what went wrong on january 6th is because of what went wrong in those months and even years beforehand. so when you talk about what fox was saying in the lead-up to january 6th, frankly, i think it's been grossly overlooked. i think it's been dramatically overlooked, that rhetoric saying we need to fight, we need to do what the revolutionary war soldiers did, that was incredibly incendiary in the days leading up to this attack. yes, we know some rioters bought plane tickets and flew to washington because of what they were told on television, because of the lies being spread on television. so i think it's an

underappreciated part of the story. look, on the afternoon of january 6th, fox stars told the truth. they covered the riot. but it would be a little like me, you know, if i'm at home and ignoring the laundry, i leave the oven on, let the dishes pile up, forget to bring my kids home from school and my wife is mad at me. i shouldn't be surprised at that point that i ticked off my wife, and i'm sorry, i would never do that, but you know what i mean. if you let this go on for weeks and months, you can't be surprised by the outcome. >> by the outcome, and yet you have these texts, laura ingraham and sean hannity and brian kill mead doing these emergency texts, get him off tv. the president needs to tell the people -- >> they're the ones making their viewers think he could actually reverse his loss. >> they acted so surprised. that's what i mean about the husband and wife analogy. they acted so shocked something was going wrong. the most interesting text of all is the one from january 5th when

sean hannity texts mark meadows and says, quote, i'm very worried about the next 48 hours. what did sean hannity know inwhat did he think was going to happen? why was he so worried? he's never answered that question, but that's why the january 6th as a shorthand is actually about something that went on for months and months. and frankly, if you're president biden, if you're a democrat, if you're the biden campaign, you need to focus less on january 6th as a date and more on what happened in the months before and frankly the weeks after the attack. >> and that brings me to you, tim, because the january 6th select committee brilliantly sort of put together a timeline of what happened on january 6th. but donald trump is about to go into a district court and try to make the argument that what he was doing on january 6th was somehow part of his official duties. but we're talking about a timeline of lying about the election that dated back actually before the election. when donald trump was essentially saying if i don't win, it was rigged and then was leading people along with people on fox, to believe that the

election couldn't be legit if he didn't win. so when he goes into that district court, when his lawyers do, there's no -- can you think of an argument that they can make that ties to his official duties? because that's what he would have to do in order to get out of this case and have immunity. >> no, joy, i'm having a hard time imagining what universe can actually exist in which this can be seen as part of the president's official duty. elections in this country are run by state governments. that is part of our federalist system. the electors are selected and identified on december 14th. they send their officially certified certificates to congress to be accepted on january 6th. the president of the united states has absolutely no role in that. you can argue that in the beginning, if he hears about some allegations of election fraud, files lawsuits, that's his prerogative, his justice

department looks into them. again, all of that happened and they found no evidence. and jack smith is going to present lots and lots of evidence that the president was told repeatedly that there's just no evidence to support this incendiary rhetoric. i have a hard time imagining how that could be classified as part of his official responsibility. look, just because you're president of the united states does not mean absolutely everything you say and do is connected to your official responsibilities in that office. >> and what do you think the significance of dan scavino's testimony will be? this guy has been around trump since he was like a teenager. he was his social media guy. but jack smith has subpoenaed the phone records to decide who was texting what. and it seems that dan scavino had his hands on the phone or whatever apparatus trump was using to tweet when he tweeted the don't beat up law enforcement text. but when trump tweeted about mike pence, he was alone in the room. so what is the significance of who was saying what when jack

smith finally gets this case back? >> yeah, joy, really, really significant that dan scavino now is cooperating. we subpoenaed dan scavino and he refused to come and provide information, claiming executive privilege. the grand jury has the ability and has the special counsel has availed themself of the adjudication of an executive privilege claim. he won and forced dan scavino to talk. he was next to the president at all times. everyone told us that dan scavino was the guy, essentially, the gateway to the former president's twitter account. he held the phone and oftentimes would be the one typing out tweets. so he is in the room all afternoon on january 6th. it really matters in terms of evidence because jack smith has to prove that president trump specifically intended to disrupt the joint session. if he now has a witness who says the president was resistant to issuing a statement to call off

the violence, that suggests he wanted the violence or wanted the joint session to be disruptive. it's very strong evidence of the key issue in the case, which is the president's intent, and it comes from his right-hand man. hard for the former president to argue that somehow dan scuvene so is lying or isn't credible when he's been his close confidante for years. >> the thing is that the incendiary stuff, brian, it has consequences. judge tanya chutkan, who will get this case back if the appeals court rules that donald trump does not in fact have some magical immunity, she's been swatted and there have been a number of democratic politicians and others swatted. she's now faced that too. that's of course when somebody calls the police and say something horrible is happening at your home. they give your address so the police will come and maybe shoot you. she's a black woman, so we know the risk of that is real. have there been beyond financial consequences at fox for them

supporting this behavior, other than obviously, they paid a crap ton of money to dominion and probably smartmatic. i changed been made? >> only around the interview, sometimes interviewing trump on tape instead of live. they're getting under the covers nice and cozy in the gop debate in iowa. trump isn't going, he's going to stay on fox instead. that relationship is getting back together and ultimately there have not been severe consequences, other than the financial penalties fox had to pay. those are real and serious and the company does not want to pay more of them. maybe around the edges they'll be slightly more careful, but they're trying to please an audience that is so radicalized, that wants to believe the worst about anyone not named trump, and that's the scary part, to me at least, the scary part is not really trump anymore, it's why the audience is so radicalized and in this environment, the news media, we're playing tug of

war between the truth and terrible disinformation. it is not biased or partisan to tug on the side of truth. and that's what we attempt. i'm worried we're going to see a lot more of that kind of attempt to intimidate and to shut people out of the public square. >> i agree. and if donald trump once again loses, which he very well could, i have no confidence that that same outlet and other right wing outlets won't lie about it again. and these people already don't believe any election if he loses, and so what will they do next? they already tried a coup. timothy and brian, thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," elise stefanik becomes the latest maga republican to buy a first-class ticket on the trump train to autocracy, as trump refuses to sign a pledge to not try to overthrow the u.s. government. you can't make it up. "the reidout" continues after this. heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk

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thanks to his death grip on the republican party, donald trump has an endless stable of lackeys shameilously willing to spread his maga propaganda including members of the republican leadership in congress. speaking to kristen welker yesterday on nbc's "meet the press," house republican conference chair elise stefanik did just that, flat out refusing to commit to certifying this year's election results. >> what about 2024? >> we will see.

if this is a legal and valid election, what we're seeing so far is that democrats are so desperate they're trying to remove president trump from the ballot. >> to be clear, i don't hear you committed to certifying the election results. will you only commit to -- >> if they're constitutional. >> does that mean that if donald trump wins? >> if they're constitutional. what we saw in 2020 was unconstitutional circumventing of the constitution. >> she parroted trump in rewriting history be repeating his claim that violent january 6th prisoners are hostages. >> i have concerns about the treatment of january 6th hostages. i have concerns, we have a role in congress of oversight over our treatment of prisoners. and i believe that we're seeing the weaponization of the federal government against not just president trump but we're seeing it against conservatives. >> now it should be obvious, but a person who was convicted of a

crime and incarcerated for such crime is not a hostage. stefanik also had zero problem with trump echoing hitler's rhetoric by saying migrants are poisoning the blood of our country. claiming that the border crisis is what's poisoning the country's blood through fentanyl. >> the border crisis is poisoning americans through fentanyl. it's poisoning people including in my district who are dying from overdoses of fentanyl because of joe biden's wide open border. so yes, i stand by president trump, and president trump also -- >> and his words? >> yes, he has the strongest record when it comes to supporting the jewish people and the state of israel. >> joining me now is jason johnson, professor of politics and journalism at morgan state university and msnbc political contributor, and tara setmayer, senior adviser to the lincoln adproject. it is that former job which is

going to land you the unfortunate fate of having to deal with elise stefanik's nonsense. why is elise stefanik? >> you know, you just look at someone like her and you shake your head because she is the quintessential example of someone who is willing to sell every last ounce of their soul for political power and relevance. she is now becoming the kellyanne conway of this election cycle for donald trump. she will say and do anything in order to maintain that proximity to power because she's never been more relevant in her entire life than she is now as she's preening and begging to be donald trump's environment. that's the bottom line. the fact she would go out and say things that are so blatantly false and the level of propaganda, i called her baghdad bob level, baghdad bob level and lipstick level propaganda. what she repeated on "meet the press" is so beyond the pale that it's disgusting.

everyone knows i am the granddaughter of a police officer, the wife of a federal law enforcement officer. anyone who respects police and any of the police unions and the folks who represented those officers who defended the capitol that day, they should be protesting her office. she is a disgrace. calling the january 6th domestic terrorists because that's what they were, calling them hostages? really? the republican party is okay with that? the republican party now is okay with leadership, you know, we already know how they feel about trump, but they're okay with leadership going out there and parroting hitler rhetoric the way trump is? now leadership is okay with saying, no, absolutely, i agree with his words. what are we doing here? and i don't think we should normalize this. i was hoping that kristen welker would push back a little more on elise stefanik on that. a lot of folks in the media are starting to do this now, but we have to keep doing it. if you don't, it normalizes what she's saying. what she said was absolute

trash, and we cannot allow the american people to think that rhetoric is normalized. it's not. it's offensive, and she is one of the more despicable members of congress. >> and she is performing, obviously, jason. let me play you a little clip of who she's performing for. beushink republicans are concerned, no matter what district they live in, blue, red, biden won it, trump won it, it doesn't matter. these are the people they're performing for. this is vaughn hillyard interviewing some voters in sioux center, iowa. >> when they talk about pulling him off the ballots, the first thing i started thinking of, i voted in '84, i think it was, for bozo the clown. i'll write donald trump in too. >> does the potential of criminal conviction at one of the trials this year, does that give you pause? >> no. not really. >> how have the indictments against him impacted your involvement and your fervor for

donald trump? >> it impacted it even further. i believe him more. because they really don't want him to come in. >> your thoughts on trump, bozo, or anything in the middle? >> first off, joy, it's hilarious to me the first thing he thinks about before trump is bozo the clown. it says something, even about the people that support trump. they first thing of a clown. i's not surprising. i said for a long time, the republican party ceased to exist when they no longer had a platform. it's a personality cult and a dime store front for a terrorist organization. that's not surprising. what i do think is disturbing, this is really key and important, it was marjorie taylor greene, then it was lauren boebert. now it's elise stefanik. this cavalcade of unseasoned, rhythmless that the republicans bring out every couple years to try to defend donald trump. these are people who, look, if you're just a silly commentator, okay, fine, you can sit there and lie.

but these people control policy. they're dangerous. i think it's important we always put them in the context. it's not congresswoman elise stefanik, it's terrorist supporter elise stefanik. it's not lauren boebert who is fleeing her seat in colorado. it's lauren boebert who is also a terrorist supporter. that's how we have tuke about these people. nobody in iowa who vaughn talked about is going to care about this. what's important is to galvanize the people who say hey, i don't think we should have terrorists in office. because the folks in iowa already lost. >> while i have you, i cannot have a college professor on and not ask you about the very, very angry bill ackman. bill ackman, who led the drive to eliminate claudine gay as esident of harvard, accusing her of plagiarism, turns out his wife mary oxman, who is a celebrity academic, not only plagiarized but i would say having taught a few classes myself, my friend jason, she

plagiarized wikipedia. your thoughts on whether somebody -- he is very angry now. now he says he wants revenge on business insider for exposing her. he wants all of m.i.t. to be fired. he wants all the harvard board fired. he wants everybody fired, a lot of people fired. your thoughts on his wife plagiarizing wikipedia. >> yeah, so a couple things. number one, ackman is in the find out stage. you can't all this cash money nonsense on twitter all day. you can't do that all day and expect you're not going to end up taking shots or strays. that's the first thing. the second thing to take into consideration, this galls me because again, it was always a bad faith attack on claudine gay, but when you look at the fact that his wife plagiarized from wikipedia, there are high school students who know that you can't use wikipedia, and you can't cite wikipedia by accident. you have to look that up. so this is somebody who by all

standards clearly shouldn't have been allowed to go forward with their ph.d. if any of that had been caught. i think the more important thing to take into consideration is look, these rich people who think they should be able to dominate culture and politics and education and everything else, just by their wealth, don't seem to realize they are still subject to some of the requirements we have for decency, integrity and that applies to them and their families. if he didn't like it, he could have stayed off twitter. >> he was mad about diversity and inclusion, apparently, he says a lack of diversity means we have to get back to letting folk who plagiarize wikipedia be the prominent academics because they're better because i can't think of a reason but i'llhink during the break. still ahead, president biden calls out the right-wing war on black history at the south carolina church where a white supremacist killed nine people in 2015.

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>> that was a moment. devering the eulogy for 2015 reverend pinkney, pastor of the mother emanuel ame church in charleston, north carolina. the reverend along with eight black churchgoers were murdered by a white supremacist who selected the church because of its history as one of the south's oldest black churches. the killer wanted to trigger a race war. today, joe biden, who was obama's vice president at that time, visited the church as president. he also spent the day in south carolina meeting with voters, laying out his case for re-election. and highlighting his accomplishments while underscoring the dangers that trump and his pro authoritarian right wing republican party pose. >> the lies that led to january 6th are part of a broader attack on truth in america today we all

have seen before. the same movement that throughout the mob on the u.s. capitol, not just trying to rewrite history, they're determined to erase history. and your future. banning books, denying your right to vote and have it counted, destroying diversity, equality, inclusion, all across america. harboring hate and replacing hope with anger and resentment and a dangerous view of america. >> the speech comes amid growing concern that biden's support among african american voters is softening. back with me, jason johnson and tara setmayer. i know you knew reverend pinkney. what's the significant in your view of president biden being in that church today and what did you make of what he had to say? >> you know, joy, every time we go back to mother emanuel, it's difficult for me. i was there when obama spoke in

2015. as has been talked about before, i knew klemm for years. it's a sacred place. and it's the place of an assassination and a massacre, so i don't take it lightly when politicians go there. i am glad that joe biden decided to go. i'm glad that joe biden decided to speak, but the truth of the matter is, he's speaking to the choir, literally and figuratively, the speech he gives at mother emanuel is not going to move the needle if the larger way we're looking at this is his soft support amongst african americans. it's not soft support because black people don't like joe biden per se, it's that black voters who are the backbone of the democratic party don't necessarily feel like he's been an active fighter on black voters' behalf, especially on white supremacy. nice speech, very moving, very emotional. i don't know that it's doing enough. if i were joe biden, i'm not trying to be glib, but if i were joe biden, he is two or three months behind in talking to

charlamagne again, two or three months behind knocking on doors and getting into communities in ways he should be, putting out vice president kamala harris. if i was in joe biden's office, i would be calling shannon sharpe. he should be speaking to a wider array of black people than just going to mother emanuel. we know he's on the right side of that history, but he needs to be part of the future. >> when they say biden is old, his age, it's not just his numerical age and the way he walks and talks and sounds. it's also his politics are old. like, he still is sort of doing '90s, '80s politics including on the middle east. let me play a moment that happened in that church and get your comment on it. here's the protest that happened. >> without the truth, there's no light. without light, there's no path from this darkness. >> if you really care about the

lives lost, you should honor the lives lost with a cease-fire in palestine. >> it's all right. [ chanting four more years ] >> i understand the passion. look, folks, after the -- >> you're an understanding person. they don't realize that. you're a good man. >> thank you. >> tara, that to me says the complete dicomity with joe biden. for black voters of a certain age, he's their guy. they're the ones who delivered him the nomination and they're still with him. then you go under 50, under 40, under 30, you start to see a different story, and then you see some other communities who don't necessarily feel the love. >> i think that joe biden handled that moment brilliantly, because this is a very complicated issue.

and you know, he's been trying to balance doing the right thing from a foreign policy level, what's in the best interest of the u.s. and in the region with domestic politics. and the timing of this issue couldn't be worse from a domestic policy perspective because of what you're saying here with certain voting demographics particularly in the black community, younger black americans, and arab americans in this country and places like michigan, which is a really important state, key swing state. this is a challenge because this election is going to be very, very, very close again. we can't afford to lose -- biden can't afford to lose any of his coalition. i also think it's important for people to remember that president joe biden regardless of his age, regardless of what his position on the war in israel and what's happening there in the middle east, this is a person who has the best interest of all americans at the forefront. he understands that. and by staying home or thinking

that they're punishing joe biden somehow for his position on israel and hamas, is going to move the needle for them, it's not. so instead, they would rather have donald trump? who wants to have a muslim ban again, who thinks immigrants are vermin, who wants to be a dictator on day one, who wants to tear up the constitution, who, you know, any black folks who think joe biden and donald trump are somehow morally equivalent, they need to take a step back and look at what dt tt has said, what he has done, versus what president biden is trying to do. yes, he's been around a long time and his record has been clear in his support for civil rights in this country is for minorities in this country and for equality in this country. i think this idea of staying home or throwing a temper tantrum because you're not getting everything you want from president biden, people need to really reconsider what the alternative is, because the alternative is the unthinkable. they won't have any opportunity to protest, do they not remember

what happened in lafayette square in the george floyd protests in 2020? that's just a taste of what donald trump would do again if he were in office. so i think folks really need to take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture here and what's actually at stake before throwing a temper tantrum over certain issues concerning president biden. >> the other -- well, some of the people who are concerned, jason, apparently are the obamas. we have had headlines about both president obama, former president obama and michelle obama saying she's scared of what's happened. when tara talks about the alternatives, one of the alternatives is set to be nikki haley. nikki haley, she was for the confederate flag before she was against it. here she is saying who actually ruined the confederate flag. >> this is one of the oldest african american churches. these 12 people were amazing people. they loved their church, they loved their family. they loved their community.

and here is this guy that comes out with his manifesto holding the confederate flag. and had just hijacked everything that people thought of. we don't have hateful people in south carolina. there's always a small minority, always going to be there. >> jason, i am today old when i discovered there was nothing wrong with the confederate flag and its meaning until, oh, dylann roof came along and changed its meaning away from its original one to a bad one. your thoughts. >> yeah, i just thought if i saw a confederate flag before dylann roof, it's like, oh, that's a place i should go trick-or-treating. it was perfectly fine. look, nikki haley is never going to be the alternative to donald trump. she's not even trump light. she can't be honest about her own history. if you can't tell me your own history, i can't give my future to you. the ability for people going all the way back to the beginning with elise stefanik, we can't

let people tell us whatever fake history have, whether it has to do with foreign policy or domestic policy, can't let people lie. >> just say the honest history. thank you both very much. coming up, the son of an al jazeera bureau chief becomes the latest journalist killed in gaza. ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪

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angry at the israeli government rallied in tel aviv and jerusalem, calling for the return of israeli captives held in gaza and removal of prime minister netanyahu's government. antony blinken also received a stark message. he was warned anti-u.s. sentiment is growing over america's unequivocal support for israel, and as some talk about mass expulsion of palestinians. blinken assured arab leaders washington opposes the forcible displacement of gazans from the west bank. including more than 9,000 children killed. according it the committee to protect journalists, as of monday, at least 79 have been killed as well. that includes 72 palestinians, 4 israelis, and 3 from lebanon. tragically, one of those

journalists includes a 27-year-old palestinian journalist and camera operator for al jazeera. he was the son of al jazeera's gaza bureau chief. he was killed alongside a colleague in a strike on their car in the southern city of rafah on sunday. it is the latest searing loss who you see here in the blue press jacket, mourning at hamza's funeral on sunday. back in october, he learned in a live broadcast his wife, 15-year-old son, 7-year-old daughter, and grandson had been killed in an israeli air strike on a refugee camp in central gaza. stunning many viewers, he returned to the airwaves, the very next day. joining me now is your dear friend and his family. he has lost so much. please tell us about him and his son. >> joy, i mean, wael al-dahdouh

is a person who is embodying what so many people in gaza are going through. he would be the first to tell you, as he has said in his live broadcast, after returning to the air, not just the first time, but the second time of burying a loved one, that he is going to continue and to report on what is happening in gaza because his story is like so many of the thousands of palestinians have been killed. people are determined and resilient and they have to keep living so, he sees his role in that larger part of the society and that's why he has been going back to the air. but he is a person of tremendous courage, of tremendous stamina, of tremendous discipline in his profession. but you also have seen side of him now that i think very few people had ever seen before, which is this emotional side, not a journalist, but a father, a husband, a grandfather. and somebody who has paid the ultimate sacrifice of having to see his kids and his grandsons killed very much in front of him, basically, with a lot of these images and reports that we have been seeing day in, day out.

but he is a person who is dedicated to his profession, like so many other palestinian journalists. he is a person who understands his role in the greater palestinian society at this moment. and for all of us on the outside, having to rely on palestinian journalists and gaza, right now, they are effectively the eyes and ears of the world, and we are able to see what's happening in gaza because of people like wael, because of people like hamza, because of people like mustafa, and the 79 other journalists that have been killed throughout this war. >> yes, as our dear friend, mehdi hasan, i'm very sad to know will not be our colleague anymore, but he will remain our dear friend, he said without these palestinian journalists, we would not know. it will just be a black hole and we would not know what's happening there. we are so thankful for that, they're taking so many risks. let's talk about what's happening in the region. antony blinken is there. it seems sort of unrealistic to even have these conversations about normalization, how it could still be possible, how could there still be a day after. when it looks like what really might be the day after is a

wider war that spills into lebanon and neighboring iran. how likely are we going to see this conflict spread beyond the tragedy in gaza? >> well, i think we should listen to the words of the u.s. secretary of state, who continuously warns that this is a very serious situation, they are concerned, u.s. officials, that the war may spread. israel today acknowledged that they killed a senior member of hezbollah, a senior commander of hezbollah and lebanon. and that follows the assassination of hamas's deputy chief in beirut last wednesday. they are seeing constant escalation from the israelis against the officials within hamas and hezbollah inside lebanon. we are seeing hezbollah fire into israel and into northern israel. and we are seeing that escalate, in addition to what's happening with yemen. today, the u.s. secretary of state saying that 22% of the world supplies, including food, oil, and other goods that are

transported by the red sea, the suez canal, it's now disrupted and have to go around the horn of africa in the southern part of africa. and that's increasing the cost of these goods. you can see the international coalition being built, or america's trying to spearhead against yemeni houthi rebels in trying to prevent that. it's something other major cause of concern, not to mention that u.s. forces in iraq and syria are coming under attack almost daily now by iranian-backed groups inside of iraq. this is a real threat. this is something that is already expanding and metastasizing beyond just gaza. as much as people try to say it's just about gaza, we are already seeing a wider conflict, even if it's low intensity, but certainly one that's escalating. >> very quickly, talk about this u.n. process. south africa has brought genocide charges against israel. and they said they will vigorously defended them. the significance of south africa being the country to do it, ireland sending attorneys to be part of it, what's the

significance? because it does feel like the global south, plus ireland, are sort of marshaling against what's happening in gaza. does it matter? is there any force to this process? >> yes and no. the short answer is, if there is a decision in one way or the other, it's going to have a tremendous amount of symbolism. if israel is exonerated or if south africa is found to be, you know, correct if you will, or if they get the decision that the genocide is being committed inside gaza, it's gonna be extremely important whether or not there's actually any teeth that may substantiate a decision, that remains to be seen, joy. >> yes, indeed. ayman mohyeldin, it is such a valuable thing to have you here. and so glad we called you. please, do not miss ayman and his new time, saturdays and sundays at seven pm eastern on msnbc. do not miss it. important announcement, chalk full of valuable information, it's up next. don't miss that either. t either get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention

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tonight, i'm very excited to announce that tour scheduled for my new book, there it is. the love story that awakened america. the tour will kick off in new york on february 6th, and then i will head to philadelphia, st. louis, jackson, mississippi, los angeles, san francisco, baltimore, washington, d.c., new orleans, and chicago. and i look forward to see all of you readers as we take this show on the road. you can go to msnbc.com slash medgar and merle for a full tour schedule. scan that cute little q r code on your screen right now to preorder your book. and that is tonight's "reidout". "inside with jen psaki" starts right now.