of a president for his official acts would open a pandora's box for which this nation may never recover. >> i understand your position to be that a president is immune from criminal prosecution for any official act that he takes as president. even if that action is taken for an unlawful or unconstitutional. >> if a president has to look over her shoulder every time he/she makes decision, my political point takes power that dampens the ability of the president. >> pack dor call to say his constitutional duty to take care of the laws be faithfully executed allows him to violate criminal laws. >> the federal appeals judges seemed very skeptical of donald trump's immunity claims during

yesterday's hearings. expert legal analysis straight ahead on all of that. meanwhile the former president is floating another birther conspiracy. we'll tell you who he is targeting this time and on capitol hill, how republicans will hold two hearings today focused on hunter biden and homeland security secretary mayorkas. we'll have reporting on that. plus, the new developments out of the middle east following secretary of state blinken's meeting yesterday in israel, the two sides appear to be at odds over plans for a post-war gaza. and days after a mid-air explosion on a boeing max 9 jet, the ceo is acknowledging the company's mistakes. we'll have the latest on that investigation and the very latest on secretary of defense austin and what is going on with his health. good morning.

welcome to "morning joe." it's a very busy wednesday, january 10th. joe? >> yeah, it's very busy, as far as boeing goes, not a great stretch that if your plane blow aparts in mid-air you take responsibility. i will say, willie, very interesting if you look at the lead editorial in the wall street journal today, the question is, who's afraid of nikki haley? the answer is, donald trump. trump going after her and we'll be talking about a new birther conspiracy that he seems to be floating, against nikki haley. why would donald trump be concerned? there are a lot of new hampshire insiders who are now starting to say the polls seem to be getting tight, the latest cnn poll has them within single digits. there's a feeling on the ground that this may be a significant

win for nikki haley even if that's one or two points. that will be quite a shock. we remember back in 2016 in new hampshire, over 4,000 people showed up in a snowstorm and it was -- i never seen any primary rally like that primary rally. donald trump goes from having that dominance and command over new hampshire to losing to nikki haley, he has a month, he then has a month between new hampshire and south carolina, and he'll be melting down, and that melting down as he always does especially after he's a loser, e remember how he acted after he was loser to ted cruz, after he was a loser to joe biden. that entire month will be donald trump melting down saying horrible things about nikki

haley and will not cause a massive threat to nikki haley i think it will make republicans go, is he really the guy we want representing us in the general election? >> he clearly hears the footsteps. he's amplifying a birther conspiracy. does that sound familiar? a birther conspiracy about nikki haley, she's well within striking distance of donald trump in the state of new hampshire now. if she wins the state of new hampshire, rolling down to her home state of south carolina, all of a sudden that donald trump has a big problem. it's clear he's a very transparent person he's worried about it and he's now talking about this wild conspiracy that nikki haley is somehow not qualified under the constitution to be president of the united states. >> it will be interesting to see

how she responds to that if she's going for second place and too afraid to take him on, a decision could come as early today from the three-judge federal appeals court panel that heard former president trump's presidential immunity claim, federal prosecutors and lawyers for the former president made their oral arguments yesterday in washington, d.c. trump's legal team appealed an earlier can that election interference can be dismissed. the appeals court panel seems skeptical of the trump's team. peppering them with skeptical hypotheticals. >> could a president order team s.e.a.l. s.e.a.l. assassinate a political rival, that's an an official act. >> it would be, you know, impeached and convicted -- >> if it weren't no criminal

prosecution, no criminal liability for that. >> chief justice's opinion and our constitution and the plain language of the impeachment judgment clause all prepropose that. >> i asked you a yes or no question, could a president who ordered s.e.a.l. team six to assassinate a political rival who's not impeach could be subjected to criminal prosecution so your answer is no -- >> president trump voluntarily attended yesterday's hearing, according to those in the courtroom he walked in just before they got started, his seat was just a few feet away from jack smith. >> mika, willie -- >> what? >> donald trump's attorney said

yesterday if people were chewing the grapenuts and you hear that more than anything else, hard to hear conversation next to you let alone or captain crunch, they think they misheard. slow down. all right, so now that we've got your attention, willie, donald trump's attorney said that donald trump, and donald trump believes this actually, that he could get s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate somebody for him. and he would be immuned from criminal prosecution. that's what he said. the chilling thing is that's not just a bumbling attorney that's

what donald trump believes. >> it's what he believes and what he said for so many years. they're making the legal case under the right circumstances he said it out loud, that he could order a political opponent to be assassinated by s.e.a.l. team 6 and be immune from prosecution. i mean, what do you say to that? let's ask chuck rosenberg, george conway and u.s. special kor response for bbc news katty kay. >> i think they painted themselves into a corner by taking this absolutist position that was simple, silly and wrong the notion that the only way you can prosecute a former president in this case if he's impeached in the house and convicted in the senate, then you can proceed

is utter nonsense, they lacked any subtlety. you read their briefs and i'm a nerd who read their briefs before the argument, i saw this coming, they painted themselves into a corner, so the questions that we heard from the judges are exactly the questions you would expect, judges love to test hypothetical, they love to trot out the most ridiculous example. you don't expect a good litigator to take it at face value, you'd expect them to distinguish it. it was a ridiculous answer and it exposes to fallacy i think of their argue zblmt is there anything, no matter how outrageous the president could do and not be immune, no, he could have s.e.a.l. team 6 kill an opponent. the case they're making, help us, our audience understand it,

that the case they're making, donald trump would have had to be convicted in his impeachment trial for there to be no immunity, having the impeachment trial they said this has to be settled in the courts. now it's in the courts now they're saying it has to be settled by congress. >> let's put aside what the politicians said for a moment. the argument they were advancing is that the only way a former president could be charged, the only way he would not have immunity impeached if in the house and convicted in senate. that's not right as a matter of law. this isn't going to work now, i'd be shocked, willie, i'm not in the business of making

predictions. i'd be shocked in the appeals court or supreme court accepted this argument at face value and found that the president was immune from prosecution under the terms his lawyers set out. it doesn't add up. >> but the win here might be the time. trump lawyers walked into a trap, what's the trap. >> the trap was exactly what chuck was talking about, i'm going to disagree slightly with chuck, i'm not sure that the january 6th case could be distinguished from the s.e.a.l. team 6 case because they were brazenly illegal and in violation of law, but the way trump's lawyers attempted to kind of soften it to say, well, you could sometimes do it, was to rely on their other bad argument they're making, an argument based on the impeachment judgment clause, all that clause says if you're tried

and convicted andry moved from office, could be the president or anyone else, you could be tried and convicted and sent to jail after you're removed from office, they flipped that around and said, in order to convict a president you must have a conviction in the senate first which the clause does not say, so if that's how sauer came up with that argument in creating the exception for presidents who are convicted they than can be tried. one problem is it's extreme. the other problem was, he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. he kept repeating this over and over, the specter of a future president, i won't say who that would be, prosecuting his political opponents, we can't have that and we can't have donald trump being prosecuted now we don't want political

prosecutions. at the same time, you can have this prosecution, the president wouldn't immune if the congress of the united states, the most political body in this town, says you can. so it made no sense and that's the other thing that florence phan when she was asking that question, she was pointing out how utterly inconsistent and two-faced the trump argument was. >> joe, what does make sense that this will take time and a lot of time and could push beyond the election. >> well, i'm not so sure. i'm glad you brought up the timing question, chuck, since this was such a propostrous argument is there not more of a possibility that the d.c. circuit rejects it and the

supreme court, you know, does a precare yum affair, rubber stamp, affirm and seasoned it back to the court. >> i'm bullish on the notion that this could be heard before the election. it's set in march before judge chutkan. it's the most straightforward case, one defendant and four charges. this is a simpler one to prepare for trial, no classified information, aren't multiple defendant. >> reporter: chuck, what about the appeal, the d.c. circuit again, it went so badly for the trump team, it's not a close call, isn't this something that the supreme court might look at and go, yeah, get it out of here. go back to the trial. >> apologize, my wind-up was too slow, the appeal, joe, i think

it's a relatively easy case for the d.c. circuit to decide the loser, mr. trump in this case may ask the entire panel hear it, i think that will be denied. i'm not sure that the supreme court will take this case at this moment in time. if those things happen you could have the case back on track quickly. i don't think the march 4th trial date is doomed. it might get pushed back a few weeks, you could have a trial in this case i believe in late spring, early summer, well ahead of the election if those ifs line up. >> yeah, katty, it makes sense that this panel stuffs this legal back in the lawyers' face, it's such a weak argument, and chuck, i agree with chuck, by the way, i know something about

long wind-ups before asking questions, what i've been doing now my whole adult life. here's the pitch, people fascinated donald trump is in court, why is he in court and not campaigning. that's the greatest bullty pulpit for him, he's such a snow flake, he's such a victim and trumpers get triggered so easily when a stupid argument like this is shot down, actually donald trump thinks it's going to help him politically and maybe he's right. >> i'm not even a simple country lawyer, i could hear the skepticism in the judges' voices yesterday. potential they rule on this pretty quickly. on the political front you're right and on the financial front we've seen these appearances be big money sperndz. it's interesting with each

successive appearance he makes, the money he brings seems to be a little bit less. there were no cameras in the courtroom. that doesn't help him. descriptions of him talking to his lawyers and getting animated about the fact that he's doing so well in the polls, he gave that lackluster mini-press conference in his former hotel down the road, he couldn't address the crowds outside the courtroom, the weather was terrible. there was so much security outside the courtroom he couldn't really do it. i'm wondering whether with each of these appearances does it become less of a political draw for him. i don't know. i think willie's right. i wonder whether this particular case claims of immunity has to do with his love of authoritarian. he seems to have this idea that

this that should have been his presidency and blanket immunity for anything he does wrong. >> george? >> george conway, where does this end, do you think as chuck believes that this argument is so -- donald trump's lawyers aren't going to be able to delay by getting the entire d.c. circuit to listen, getting the supreme court to mull over, is this something they brush away because it's laughable argument, plus it's the d.c. circuit, this isn't some random circuit out in flyover space. the justices would call it where i'm come. >> i'm as bullish as chuck is, i think this march 4th trial date could stick, i think this decision from the d.c. circuit

is going to come down within a week or two, probably a week, and maybe even less, i think they're probably already writing the opinion, i think they probably got a head start writing the opinion. if i were presiding judge i would have started writing the opinion already. i don't think there's going to be a big deal when it comes to getting that pb out and a good chance that the supreme court won't take it, even if the supreme court does take it and hears argument in march and april, they could issue a decision we could have a trial in summer. before the fall. >> wow. >> we've heard donald trump's real core argument when he comes out of the courtroom, if i'm convicted in this country there will be bedlam in the country. chuck, you're bullish as you said a little bit earlier about

how this will move along, let's talk about the supreme court real quick, how do you think they'll weigh this question. >> a good opinion from the district court judge chutkan and you do. and there might be anything for the supreme court to weigh in on, i mean, remember, they get thousands and thousands of petitions each year from folks who want the supreme court to hear the case. their jurisdiction in almost every case is completely elective, they're not required to hear this. so, if you look at the reasoning below and they agree with it, my suspicion is they just move on, i don't know why they would need to take this case to ultimately say what the d.c. circuit to say. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you so much. we appreciate all of your

insights this morning. coming up in a minute, a government shutdown is looming but today house republicans instead are focused on impeaching the homeland security secretary and holding the president's son in contempt of congress. we'll have the latest from capitol hill, "morning joe" is back in 60 seconds. back in 60 seconds why choose a sleep number smart bed? because no two people sleep the same. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number settings. it's so smart, it actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees

on either side for your ideal sleep temperature, and effortlessly responds to both of you. for your best sleep, night after night. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. ends monday. shop for a limited time and sleep next level. only at sleep number. welcome back to "morning joe." >> welcome back. >> we have sets all over the world. willie, our set in los angeles, they're all talking about aaron rodgers and jimmy kimmel's fight. i just got to ask a question, what is it with aaron rodgers? like, why does he's captain jeff prooe epstein's list, why is he

so obsessed with it. aaron rodgers said when they were talking about ufos. mika, this seems like this is confusing you so much. >> it must be me. >> well, it's not willie, anyway, they were talking about ufos on capitol hill and aaron rodgers goes, oh, they're talking about ufos because of jeffrey epstein's list is coming out. just bizarre. and then, he moves forward and really slanderous saying jimmy kimmel's really concerned now because the jeffrey epstein's list is coming out. he can't stop himself. he goes back on pat mcafee's show and tries to explain it away again.

i'm not sure why jimmy kimmel hasn't decided to sue the guy. a guy who sits out all season, comparing joe burrow to aaron rodgers. joe burrow is on the sidelines, he's helping his backup quarterback, aaron rodgers every tuesday it's conspiracy theories with aaron. every tuesday. he's trashing his coach, he's trashing his gm, he needs to go away. >> yeah, at this point in his career you have to ask yourself if it's worth for the new york jets to have this guy around. we'll see if he's healed and can play better. he didn't apologize a week after he completely slandered jimmy kimmel suggesting that he's on the epstein list, he's not, he came back on and didn't apologize. he dug deeper and went back to

the epstein list, he's obsessed with that for some reason. he goes on a rant about anthony fauci and the covid vaccine and how it's this and that. he's so deep and soaked in conspiracy theories. it seems to be all he thinks about and he's one of these guys who lives on the internet and he gets a platform because he's famous and he says things that are wrong and dangerous and he keeps getting a platform and keeps saying it and when given the opportunity to apologize he refused to do it. which tells you a lot about his character. >> looking at the jets, do they really want to depend on this guy? why. >>. >> why are we having him on the show today, is he really worth

it? randomly bringing up jimmy kimmel and aaron rodgers when we're supposed to be talking about government shutdowns. >> i think it's a good conversation about conspiracy theories and the irresponsibilities. because our kids watch him and they don't watch a lot of other stuff. kids i mean across the country. they go on social media and they think they know what's going on with the news. people with these large platforms need to be more responsible and quite frankly shouldn't need the requirement they should be more responsible and kind. >> by the way, i know everybody wants to get to the workings of congress. >> really want to talk about the shutdown. >> "the new york

times"/washington post, wall street journal, over newspapers over the past month have started to focus on the terrorist attacks in israel, the insanity that's tiktok, the insanity of our college students and younger voting americans getting misinformation from a website owned by the communist chinese government and it's such massive misinformation that's being sent out day after day, and it's shaping how young americans think not only about the terrorist group hamas and not only the hatred that's building for israel but we have now come into this bizarre world where social media is turning -- it's hard to believe -- osama bin laden into a hero for a subset

of younger americans, that's what tiktok owned by the communist chinese government, controlled by the government there, that's what tiktok is doing to young americans and they are. there are people, a good number of younger americans, students who go to good schools, who are now posting on their walls, bin laden's message to america, or something like that. and are praising hamas and attacking israel every day. it's such, such a threat. will the fcc allow communist china run a news channel that spewed false information about osama bin laden in america? i never understood this whole it's the wild west, we can't do anything about the internet. i never understood that, because

the government can do something about everything else, why do they continue to allow this disinformation to be spewed on tiktok? >> it's disinformation and it's taking hold. large enough percentage of young americans than you can write off, a larger enough percentage than you can write off, they're getting these clips that suggest it was israel responsible for the hospital. it wasn't. you have to stop and explain what these terms are. israel is committing genocide. they're taking hold. by the way, it's not an insignificant matter for the president. i mean, if you look at his standing among young voters that he needs to turn out this fall their support for him is very soft, doesn't mean they like donald trump, they may be looking around or not show up, this stuff all matters.

we talked to chris krebs on this show about leaving the back door open to the chinese government through tiktok. they are a straight line, direct line into young people and kids, young americans, they can push whatever message they want, they can gather their data. they have nothing to lose. >> mika, they have -- they set up algorithms, all these investigations they set up algorithms that actually feed these lies to young americans who are tiktok and i think it was a times set up a 13-year-old, 14-year-old, 15-year-old user, just set up accounts that were supposed -- and they were just fed constant,

constant pro-hamas propaganda. and those algorithms aren't created in silicon valley, they're run again by a company that's owned by the communist chinese government, they're changing the views of american students and younger working americans to the degree, again, that now with a pretty significant subset of them are now looking positively at osama bin laden. congress needs to do something. >> congress needs to do something. we need to do a full out hour on this. our kids are on tiktok. it's huge problem. moving on now to republican-led house oversight and judiciary committees holding

markups on contempt charges against hunter biden after he refused last month a congressional subpoena to testify in private despite showing up to testify in public, in addition the house homeland committee will be holding a hearing about the possible impeachment of homeland security secretary mayorkas, surrounding the handling of the situation at the border. let's bring in julie tsirkin. good to have you. these house republicans have a busy day of definitely obsessing over folks, anybody close to joe biden. >> i just want to point out normally these impeachment proceedings aren't normal. mayorkas they would be held in -- the dynamic i'm following here that's so interesting while

you have these border negotiations going on in senate, mayorkas in the room, the point person from the white house for weeks on this, you have republicans impeaching him or trying to in the house, you have a group of senate conservatives yesterday who were defending that move, i asked one of them roger marshall from kansas, what happens, how can you accept a deal on the border while impeaching the guy? >> certainly for me it's very concerning, i typically don't sit down at the table with a person i don't trust. we're playing the hand that's dealt us. we're not the ones who get to choose who they send to the negotiations. this is such an important issue, this is a once in generation opportunity to secure the border, i'm willing to do this however we can.

>> so clearly you have the group of senate republicans who are agreeing with this impeachment push, went to the floor to call for a vote of no confidence, that went nowhere with democrats controlling the senate. criticizing the guy who's in the room trying to give advice on border policy while at the same time trying to impeach him and if and when this deal comes together which leadership in both parties say they still want it. that will be a very interesting optic. >> do republicans really want one? george conway, this obsession with hunter, hunter did want to testify just not in private, now being held in contempt officially, can they do that, what else are they doing? what do you make of these focus on hunter and this hearing today? >> obviously it's just nonsense, there's -- he's never held public office, never going to hold public office.

they never had any connection to the president. that's the problem. they even admit that at times, the republicans, and this is just going to go nowhere, but they have to bang on the drums to placate the base, they don't want to becriticized for being soft on joe biden. >> so the hearing is they can swamp the airways with talk of hunter. >> so they can talk about it and say, look at what we're doing, we're fighting for you by going after this guy who doesn't have anything to do with anything else. i mean, it's just beyond crazy. >> joe, what do you make of it? >> they're playing for the cheap seats, a very small portion of their base who want to see this happen, most americans don't even know who he is, they're playing for the cheap seats.

what i found fascinating, willie, is a republican lined up to impeach him who's negotiating with secretary and he talked about and here's the phrase, once in a generation opportunity to secure the border, that tells me this is something james lankford has been working for for quite some time, even the most conservative senators in the senate are actually considering finally, finally entering into an immigration deal and the democrats in the senate are finally, timely talking about putting some real teeth into a border security plan where the two sides can come together and start bringing relief to the humanity crisis that's been swelling at the border since donald trump became president of the united states.

>> the question we've been talking about, do republicans actually want a solution to border crisis? or do they want to hang on to this issue through the 2024 election? so, i guess, julie, that's the question for you what's the progress over on the senate side at least, we know the noise from the house will continue. on the senate side, about the border, is there reason for optimism there? sort of just a signal from some republicans like senator langford we're serious about this. >> negotiations are 100% serious, there's no reason why the senator murphy and langford will be risking so much political capital being seen in room negotiating, trying to really bridge the gap on something that's so politically fraught. i do think negotiations are

serious, i do think that leadership, republicans and democrats in both the house and senate want the deal, it's no secret that the democratic majorities will have to carry this deal if they want to push it through not only in the senate but the house. for that reason, some of the issues humanitarian parole is extremely difficult to figure out when you have republicans to completely restrict the biden administration's ability to use that authority, and democrats pushing back. this is really a big issue. still outstanding problems here. this is tied to ukraine. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie tsirkin thank you very much. george conway, oral arguments yesterday, donald trump heads to new york thursday for the civil trial which james

decided i need more money back. while iowa is just days away >> it's his magical litigation tour and i mean, again, as joe put it earlier, he loves -- first of all, he went yesterday because that as chuck previously said, there's a delay aspect to it and there's also a fund-raising aspect to it and as joe said there's a narcissistic aspect, but he's fighting for his life here, his freedom here, these criminal cases, not the one in new york that's just money, that means a lot to him. these cases could put him in jail for the rest of his life and i think probably will. that's why he's desperate to make these immunity arguments even though they're hail marys at best, but he's looking at and he deeply has to be fearing in

fact he ran for re-election in 2020 in part because he knows deep down he's criminal and that the law is catching up to him. >> katty, look at that abc news headline at the bottom of the screen, trump will reportedly deliver -- i'm sorry -- trump -- let me read it with a straight face -- >> you can do it. >> it's not possible. it's not possible. >> trump will reportedly deliver part of his new york fraud trial closing arguments himself. the cable news gods -- >> the best closing arguments that anyone has ever given. >> forget cable news the late-night comics -- oh, my god, that i'll have a field day on this.

>> he believes he's his own best representation, he alone can fix it, he probably think he's so persuasive and so charming if he got face to face with a jury they would come around him. >> this is the hat george conway gave me to give you, joe. by the way, we're reclaiming the red hat. george conway, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, the u.s. and israel are united in the war against hamas but appear to be sharply divided over the future of gaza. live report from jerusalem on the heels of secretary of state blinken's meeting with prime minister netanyahu and his war cabinet. "morning joe" will be right back. back

♪♪ with fastsigns, signage that gets you noticed turns hot lots into homes. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. that first time you take a step back. i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. the ladies have been doing a lot of talking recently. she looks great! what they don't know is i got inspire, a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body. i feel refreshed because i'm not struggling with cpap anymore. 100 bucks she got work done. great sleep,

at the click of a button. did she get implants? yeah, i got an implant, sheila!! relax, it's inspire. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

singlecare is amazing. even though i have insurance, it can't beat the pricing i get on my medication through singlecare. before i submit any prescriptions, i always check singlecare first! just go to singlecare.com, search for your prescription and show the coupon to your pharmacist. millions of people on medicare, just like me, use singlecare every month, and you can too! visit singlecare.com and start saving today. the united states and israel are disagreeing on plans for post-war gaza, secretary of

state blinken met with prime minister netanyahu and his war cabinet yesterday to discuss the future of territory. blinken's plans, urged israeli officials to allow for a revamped palestinian authority to play a role in gaza, he also explained that ending the war would allow israel to improve its relations with arab nations. they want to see a serious path toward creaing a palestinian state. but netanyahu and his far-right cabinet are flatly rejecting those calls. israel's finance minister opposed giving the palestinian authority the tax revenue israel has been collecting saying it will, quote, go to the families of nazis in gaza. following this blinken had this to say.

>> lead their people in living side by side with the people of israel as neighbors. israel must stop taking steps that undercut palestinian's ability to govern themselves. if israel wants its arab neighbors to help ensure its lasting security, israeli leaders will have to make hard decisions themselves. >> programming note, andrea mitchell sat down with secretary of state blinken in tel aviv, watch her interview on andrea mitchell reports at noon eastern. joining us now is richard engel. what's the latest there, richard in. >> reporter: so, this has been a difficult trip for secretary blinken, he arrived with what sounded like carrots for israel,

incentives, he had been on a trip all across the arab world, a trip that's not over yet, trying to build some sort of consensus and he came with a package from the arab states saying that the arab world is willing to resume a normalization process, resume making peace deals with israel including saudi arabia going back toward potentially having a diplomatic agreement with israel on the condition that it end the war in gaza, that it changed the leadership structure, allowing a single palestinian government to run both the west bank and gaza. most critically it relaunch the long frozen peace process, what used to be the oslo accord, peace process that will lead to the creation of a palestinian state, that's something that prime minister netanyahu and particularly this hard-right

government that he's formed have flatly rejected. the finance minister rejecting it out of hand. national security minister here calling for just the opposite, calling for the palestinian authority to be replaced by israeli settlers so it's not something that this government in its current configuration is willing to accept, but what we saw today secretary blinken putting out this plan saying that israel can be integrated in the middle east if it meets these conditions, he went today to the west bank to meet with the palestinian president mahmoud abbas, he was booed, secretary blinken met angry crowds outside telling him to go home. accusing the united states not doing enough to defend the palestinian people and just trying to placate israel in the wake of the october 7th attacks. later today, there will be

another summit, we're seeing flurry of diplomatic activity in jordan with the president of egypt, the king of jordan and the president of the palestinian authority mr. abbas. >> so, richard, you had the secretary of state saying that israel had to make some tough decisions, benjamin netanyahu over the past deck ode or so he has done the opposite, he's always refused to make any decision that's politically tough. he's told qatar to funnel billions of dollars to hamas to try to cynically pay them off. he refused what you're talking about, about how arab states are now pushing for a two-state solution. i understand netanyahu's political game. it is, in part, what led us to this calamity. israel being so ill-prepared,

and hamas being so powerful, but the question is, what -- what's your read? where are the israeli people? do they understand that netanyahu's way is a dead end that netanyahu's appeasement and funding of hamas has gotten them to this point, and they do need to figure out how to move forward with the region and the world on a two-state solution. >> you're hitting at one of the most fundamental questions here. this solution that -- this proposed solution that the biden administration is proposing that secretary blinken is carrying with him, which has been endorsed by many countries around the arab world, a way out of this, which would get rid of hamas by replacing it with a revamped palestinian authority, and move back toward a peace process leading to a two-state solution. in many ways is a post-netanyahu

plan. it is something that i'm sure the biden administration did not expect netanyahu to accept, did not expect his coalition, in particular, to accept. so it is looking to a region that -- in which half of the palestinian population, that in gaza, is not governed by the kidnapping, murdering, extremists of hamas, and which -- and in which israel is not led by a coalition led by prime minister netanyahu. so far, the israelis are not pushing for an election at this stage, because we are in a war here. this is a time of national crisis. but approval ratings, according to numerous opinion polls, suggest -- or numerous opinion polls suggest that netanyahu's opinion -- public approval rating is terribly low. that most people have lost confidence in his ability to rule this country. they don't trust him when it comes to security. they don't trust him personally.

so this plan in many ways is a plan that envisions a change of leadership or could only be accepted by a change of leadership in both israel and in gaza. >> nbc's richard engel, thank you very much for your reporting. joining us now here in washington, white house reporter for "the washington post," yasmin abutalib. what's your reporting on all of this, as there are of course concerns of a wider war breaking out? >> the biden administration is hugely concerned about the risk of escalation, particularly in southern lebanon right now, where israel and hezbollah have been exchanging some sort of low-level fire for -- since october 7th. but that has escalated quite a bit in the last two weeks. u.s. officials said israel was responsible for a strike last week that killed a hamas commander just outside of beirut. you know, it's believed that israel killed a hezbollah commander this week in southern lebanon.

and of course, secretary of state blinken is in the region, in large part, trying to prevent an escalation. we have reporting that u.s. officials are telling israel, this is not in their interests. the u.s. does not have interest in being directly pulled into a broader war with hehezbollah, a hezbollah is a much more competent military group than hamas is. israel is already stretched pretty thin with forces and resources in gaza. hezbollah is a much more formidable enemy to take on, and they're just not equipped. u.s. officials do not believe that israel is well equipped to take on a full-scale war with hezbollah. >> yasmin, it doesn't seem like the white house is getting very much from israel. they keep asking for, you know, reduce the attacks or make them more targeted in gaza, be careful not to attack the lebanese armed forces, because those are u.s.-backed forces, and go for -- even in terms of the political stuff, there's got to be a two-state solution, you have to revamp palestinian authorities. and it seems like it keeps getting thrown back in the white

house's face. how much frustration is there in the administration and what would that frustration lead to? is there any discussion about action that might be taken? >> i think you hit on a really important point here. and i think one of the main sources of criticism of the administration's approach, there are of course people who say, you know, this allows the administration to keep nudging the israelis in private, but i think there are increasing questions from middle east experts, even from allies of the administration asking what are they getting for this bear hug strategy? because it does seem like they send these warnings, both in private and then a little bit more gently in public, and israel keeps essentially ignoring what the u.s. is telling them to do. and you hit on the attacks on the lebanese armed forces, which u.s. officials have told them is absolutely unacceptable. these are u.s.-trained forces that are going to be essential to any what they call day half scenario in lebanon. but israel cannot be attacking them. we had a report over the weekend, my colleagues and i, that u.s. officials have assessed that israel has hit lebanese armed forces, at least 34 times, in the last couple of

months. so there is a -- i think it's been made clear that hezbollah does not really want a wider war, but i think the question is, at what point do they feel pulled in, because of the attacks that are being launched? >> and all of this while hostages are still being held in captivity. white house reporter for "the washington post," yasmin abutalib. thank you so much for coming in. it's good to see you. come back. still ahead, tonight, florida governor ron desantis and nikki haley will face off on the republican debate stage in iowa. five days before the first in the nation caucuses. nbc's vaughn hillyard will join us live from des moines with what's at stake tonight and what gop voters who oppose donald trump say they fear ahead of the primaries. plus, we'll be joined by health and human services secretary xavier becerra for a big announcement about the affordable care act. of "morning joe" will be right back. e act. ofmo "rning joe" will be right back

ultomiris is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-acetylcholine receptor antibody positive. it is lasting control over your gmg symptoms. and, ultomiris is the only long-acting gmg treatment with 8 weeks of freedom between infusions. ultomiris can lower your immune system's ability to fight infections, increasing your chance of serious, life-threatening meningococcal and other types of infections. if not vaccinated, you must receive meningococcal vaccines at least 2 weeks before starting ultomiris and if ultomiris is urgent, you should also receive 2 weeks of antibiotics with your vaccines. before starting ultomiris, tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions and medications. ultomiris can cause reactions such as back pain, tiredness, dizziness, limb discomfort, or bad taste.

ultomiris is here. ask your doctor about managing your generalized myasthenia gravis with ultomiris.

the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com

the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network.

last friday -- last friday, an alaska airlines plane had to make an emergency landing after a door panel popped off at 16,000 feet. the panel on the plane may not have been properly attached. ya think? the good news is that the bolts that should have held the door in place may not have been come loose as was previously feared. okay? the bad news is, it's possible the bolts were never even installed. now, i know that sounds like a major screw up, but they were just following the instructions. put door on plane, wonder why you have leftover bolts, enjoy unlimited leg room. >> i can't. i can't. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 10th. katty kay is still with us and joining the conversation, we

have such a great group. former u.s. senator and now nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccas kyl. former msnbc host, chris matthews. former u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, glenn kirschner. he's a msnbc legal analyst. and of course, katty is still with us. joe, where do we begin? >> well, i just want to tell willie that my life on airplanes just got a lot more complicated, because every time we hear, like, if they take the cart out to push down the aisle, they give people drinks, mika grabs my arm and says, are we okay? are we okay? yeah, that's just the cart. she does not like flying. >> i can't do it. >> and so whatever stories like this come up, i'm like -- >> the whole thing doesn't make sense. >> this is going to be fun. >> i can't do it. >> my favorite mika story on a plane was, you know, anytime anything happens, she grabs my

arm. and we weren't sitting together one time. i was across the way, and we were flying in and we had a little bump like this and i hear joe scream top of her lungs -- >> stop. >> and i look over, and mika's grabbing this poor lady's arm. and as we get off the plane, she grab's mika's arm, and she goes, i assume you're joe? and delivers mika safely to me. >> i'm not good at flying. >> it's like the scene, joe, request "almost famous," they think they're going down, and you start saying all the truths you've never said. that's a little turbulence for mika. >> exactly. got to be careful. so willie, we've been talking about israel and the middle east, possible two-state solution, front page of the "new

york times," talking about how arab states want that two-state solution, like the biden administration wants that two-state solution, like most of the world wants that two-state solution. they're getting pushback from benjamin netanyahu. and i think it's very important to remember, like, you know i've said time and again, i think he's bad for israel. the fact that he continued asking qatar to fund hamas, that he refused to cut off hamas' funding when he learned about it in 2018, that he refused to listen to all of the warnings about hamas coming in, benjamin netanyahu just bad for israel's security. and most israelis agree with that. reuters reported a couple of days ago about a poll -- an israel poll where 15%, only 15% of israelis want him to stay on as prime minister after the war. and the majority actually want to keep fighting the war until hamas is destroyed. and the majority believe that fighting the war offers the best

chance to get the hostages back, more than prisoner swaps. so, you actually have the israeli people agreeing with benjamin netanyahu, that this war should continue. at the same time, only 15% want him to remain on as a prime minister after it's over. that's why the biden administration needs to be doing what they're doing, looking over the horizon, figuring out with allies in the middle east, who they're working on that right now, who can come in, who can help with peace-keeping in gaza. who can help bring order to the west bank. what new slate of palestinian leaders can step up and do it, instead of the tired, old, and corrupt guard right now that's in the palestinian authority. and of course, the murderous tyrants and the terrorists in gaza. this is a decision that has to be made, but it doesn't need to be made with benjamin netanyahu, if you believe most israelis.

they want him gone as soon as this war's over. >> you look at polling, they want a few things. they want to be secure, first and foremost. they want to root out hamas. they want to get rid of them. they want the hostages home. they want all the hostages home. then they would like to see the prime minister leave. and in that poll that you just cited, benny gantz who is in netanyahu's war cabinet, but much more sensitive than prime minister netanyahu gets the most support for saying, here's who we want in charge when it's all said and done. it's. frustrating to us as people who ask questions of israeli officials when they come on, but perhaps it's a strategy when we ask about what happened that day on october 7th, it's, you cannot get an answer. it's "we'll talk about that another time," because it does, in fact, as this war goes on, mika, expose the weakness of the prime minister. he doesn't want to explain what happened that day when his core strength, his core reason for being as prime minister, is security, and there was such a

tragic, tragic failure of intelligence security that day. >> literally no explanation could be a good one. >> we're going to continue this conversation, but our top story this hour, a decision could come as early as today from the three-judge federal appeals court panel that heard former president trump's presidential immunity claim. former president trump voluntarily attended yesterday's hearing. according to those in the courtroom, he walked in just before they got started. his seat was just a few feet away from special counsel jack smith, who was alsopresent. trump's legal team appealed an earlier ruling by federal judge tanya chutkan that election interference charges could not be dismissed on the basis of the presidential immunity. the appeals court panel seemed skeptical of the trump team's reasoning, asking them hypotheticals on how far immunity would go under trump's theory. >> could a president order

s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political rival? >> it would have to be and speedily be, you know, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution -- >> but if he weren't, there would be no criminal prosecution? no criminal liability for that? >> the chief justice's opinion were against and our constitution and the plain language of the impeachment judgment claus all clearly pre-suppose is that what the founders were -- >> i asked you a yes or no question. could a president who ordered s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, could he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first. >> so your answer is "no"? >> so glenn, you were in the courtroom yesterday. talk about the dynamics in the room and what are your insights from watching it first hand. >> you know, mika, first of all, it is so nice to see the rule of law prodded into wakefulness and

applied to donald trump by those three judges. you know, appellate court judges can't conjure up rights out of thin air, but that's exactly what donald trump's lawyer, john souer was asking them to do. what they do is they interpret the law, and once interpreted, they apply it to a certain set of facts. what donald trump's lawyer was asking them to do is take the impeachment judgment claus, which in layman's terms says, if a criminal president, let's break it right down to its essence, if a criminal president is impeached in the house and convicted at the senate trial, he can still be criminally prosecuted. trump's lawyer took that, tried to turn it on its head, and tried to set a condition precedent, saying, no, no, no, what it really means -- ignore the plain language of the impeachment judgment clause. >> is it me or did it seem completely ridiculous?

>> completely ridiculous. what the judges were highlighting is, okay, let's just go with your construct. impeachment first or you can never prosecute a criminal president. that would mean if congress declined to impeach a criminal president, doj could never prosecute him? you're giving congress the power to immunize a president against prosecution? the constitution doesn't work that way. >> any practical thinking attorney knows this is ridiculous, correct? >> yes. >> so just buying time? >> buying time, looking for delay, appeal, appeal, appeal. >> all right. joe? >> you know, chris matthews, so many people have been numbed by the madness of big don, donald. that when he says that abraham lincoln blew it in the civil war and should have negotiated with slave holders, it just goes past. nikki haley said something insane about the civil war, and we're still hearing about it and

reading about it. donald trump attacks abraham lincoln, and says that he screwed up by not caving to the slave holders, and it just sort of floats my. he says mad, crazy things every day and the media for some reason so numbed by it, they don't sit there and emphasize it. yesterday, here's another moment where we just have to stop. the music has to stop and people need to focus. they had their grape nutts and crunchberries last hour, so they're listening to us in this hour. let's just say it. they heard it. donald trump's attorney just argued in court that donald trump could assassinate a political rival on orders from s.e.a.l. team 6, that he gave to s.e.a.l. team 6, to assassinate a political rival and as

president of the united states, unless mike johnson's congress impeached him, he would have immunity from prosecution for political assassinations of american rivals. that's what donald trump admitted in court. >> yeah, it depends on the context. it was outrageous. and i have to tell you, i grew up in the cold war, a little older than you, joe. and when we grew up in the cold war, we wondered, how far could soviet dictators go with their authority? how many people could they knock up in the back room? up through stalin, maybe khrushchev, we figured they had the power to kill their enemies, get rid of them. we thought that's what a dictator was. that's what they're describing as the presidential authority under their reading of the constitution. the ability to knock off opponents. and this is a real problem, because those people who raided the capital on january 6th, 700 of them have pled already, 200

of them have pled to felony cases. they're going to prison, 18 to 20 years. they're going in for realtime. and all of those people are going to be punished in the real world that trump doesn't live in, the real world, they're going to jail. and they're paying for listening to his lies. when he said, "i won the election," he lied. he sent them up there with the lie. and that's why they're in jail. and they're going to jail. and this is a reality. and trump's out there hanging on to that last shred, this immunity thing. this thing that he thinks will save him. you know, like the guy hanging from the statue of liberty and his coat falling apart because he's trying to hang on, you know? he's not going to win. he's going to lose that case, because the appellate court, we could hear them thinking yesterday in that trial, you could hear them with their incredulity. he looked like an idiot and those lawyers looked like idiots. how could he possibly expect the american people to accept the

fact that our presidents are literally dictators that could knock out of their opponents at will in the back room? it was astoundingly stupid. >> you know, it was astoundingly stupid and they sounded like idiots, but willie, the headline here is, donald trump believes and admitted it in court yesterday through his attorneys that he can assassinate political rivals -- he can make those orders to s.e.a.l. team 6, assassinate political rivals and have immunity from it. just like he believes that he can assassinate generals who are not sufficiently loyal. just like he believes he can terminate the constitution in his words. just like he believes that he can shut down news outlets that are insufficiently loyal to him. these are all things that he has said, he continues to say, and i can't believe it, but yesterday, he took it to a new level,

saying that he could order s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate political rivals and be immune from criminal prosecution in the united states of america. >> yeah, i was thinking the same. the comment a couple of months ago about the joint chiefs of staff, general milley, when he suggested that he should be killed for treason. treason was carrying out of his duties as his chairman of the joint chiefs around the 2020 election and after january 6th. he also, let's not forget, encouraged and did not discourage on the day, a mob from stopping its pursuit, as they were chanting, "hang mike pence," and "where's nancy." they were not going to take a selfie with nancy. he means all of this and we ought to take him seriously. and we remind you during trump's impeachment trial back in 2021, the argument was made that trump would not be immune from prosecution after his

presidency. we heard that point made by republican senator mitch mcconnell and two of trump's own attorneys. >> president trump is still liable for everything he did while he was in office. as an ordinary citizen, unless the statute of limitations is around, still liable for everything he did while he was in office. didn't get away with anything yet. yet. we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation, and former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one. >> if my colleagues on this side of the chamber actually think that president trump committed a criminal offense -- >> and let's remember, a high crime is a felony and a misdemeanor is a misdemeanor. the words haven't changed that much over time.

after he's out of office, you go and arrest him! so there is no opportunity where the president of the united states can run rampant in january, at the end of his term, and just go away scot-free. the department of justice does know what to do with such people. >> we have a judicial process in this country. we have an investigative process in this country, to which no former office holder is immune. that's the process that should be running its course. >> claire mccaskil, those were donald trump's own lawyers. the case they were making, here's why you should not vote to convict him in this impeachment trial, because the justice system will take care of him. the department of justice does know what to do with such people. now it's in the hands of the

justice department and the argument has come back around from trump's attorneys in this circular game saying, no, this should have been settled during impeachment. >> it's so ironic that the party that loves to lecture everyone about the originalism about the constitution and the text of the constitution, they have now arrived supporting a guy who has signed off on his lawyers saying in a court of the united states of america that if you have 35 votes in the senate, you can do anything you want. you can violate people's human rights, you can murder them, you can violate any law in america and you're good to go. and that is so fundamentally against the entire context of our constitution. which is checks and balances. criminal prosecution has nothing to do with a political process. it should never have anything to

do with a political process. it should have to do with the facts, evidence, and applying the law as written by congress and is dictated by the constitution. and give me a minute here. because isn't it ironic that that guy, who by the way, is a missouri guy, who was standing there and seriously arguing that, is a harvard law grad, who clerked for scalia, who clerked for lutig, who is the conservative judge who stayed true to what he said all along, that we should read the constitution as it is written and said he should be removed from office, trump, for the 14th amendment. the idea that somebody says thinks that harvard is some kind of brainwashing institutions, harvard and yale are brainwashing institutions for the left, need to take a walk down the road holding hands with elise stefanick, ted cruz, josh hawley, and now this guy, john souer, who actually stood up as a harvard law graduate and spouted that nonsense in front of a very important federal appeals court in the united states of america. it is beyond embarrassing to

that man and should be embarrassing to harvard. >> amen. chris matthews, i would like you to jump in on claire's point, but also pointing out that iowa is days away. new hampshire is coming up, and donald trump, given this conversation, even, is the clear front-runner. >> you know, i think president biden gave a good speech on friday. i think he began the conversation about the constitution and democracy. but i think he has to turn the corner and go to the next step. the reason we love our democracy, the reason we all love it is if we don't like the government and they're doing something, we can do something about it. the 18th amendment was followed by the 21st amendment. you can drink beer if you want to. it was corrected. women want the right to -- the protection of their own body. they want to have -- so day go and vote in ohio. and they just say, we're going to win this one. and you can do this. but the voter does have a role to play. the court system will put the

bad guys in jail. the ones who were lied to by the president, former president in jail, they're doing all of that right. they're going to plead guilty and go away. but in the end, the voters have to vote for their rights. you have to vote for civil rights. when i was growing up in philadelphia, the black majority -- the black majority now, they voted -- a highly registered voter, more registered than the white voter. you had frank rizzo as mayor, a law and order guy, and this is the only we can defend ourselves. you have to vote to protect your rights in the constitution, the bill of rights was put there by jefferson and madson because people said, the constitution and democracy is not enough. we have to write in here our bill of rights. and voters have to get out there and say, dammit, if i'm a young person, a black person, if i'm out on the streets and i don't trust the cops, i have to vote that way, if i'm a woman and i want to protect myself and my

decisions, i have to vote that way. i think voters have to take their hand in this election and don't wait for the government to do it. you know this election is going to be close, it's going to be very close in places like pennsylvania. and you'll have rural people out there voting their craziness about the cults. so you better be there to match them. and you've got to be there to vote against that. and i'm telling you, this is really important that you vote for your rights. >> i know, it is. and for women especially, we've already lost many rights. 50 years of rights. glenn, how do you see this playing out timing wise? there are some who are concerned that's what he's doing, dragging it out beyond the election. is that possible? and by the way, he's back in court on thursday for his civil fraud trial. >> he has no hope of winning on the merits, not on the argument that we saw yesterday. >> but he could win on the timing. >> his only hope is running out the clock. i think the institutions of government, certainly the judiciary are realizing that donald trump has done nothing but try to weaponize the delay

in the system. that's his only play. i think they appreciate the urgency of the home. and frankly, i think all american voters have a right to know, in the event donald trump is the republican nominee for president, they have a right to know whether they're casting their vote for a convicted felon or a completely innocent man who's been exonerated on all charges by a jury of his peers. and we will only know that if we can get these criminal cases to trial, to fruition, before the 2024 election. >> that's a really important point. >> you know, i think it's really important that the conservatives out there, when you defend donald trump, you're defending what happened on january 6th. you're defending why he sat there in that little office next to his oval office, he sat there doing nothing, according to the rest. they're all talking now. and more are going to talk in court. here's a guy who did nothing. suppose the metropolitan police had not arrived. it was just them fighting for their lives at the speaker's door, at the speaker's lobby.

right there when they're going in with the flagpole. suppose they got to the vice president, got ahold of him, got ahold of nancy pelosi. what did they think was going to happen? they went there to get these people. what were they going to do? maybe in a weirdly sick world, we would say, maybe a couple more hours, we're going to see what these people are up -- i always thought that the worst thing about watergate is what they would have done if they got away with it. how worse they would have been. these people were going for blood. >> and even as it is now, it's a stain on our history and blood was shed. former assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, glenn kirschner, thank you very much for coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump revives his birther conspiracy for the 2024 election. this time involving republican presidential rival nikki haley. we'll break down whether trump's increasing attacks on haley signals a concern within his campaign. cnn's vaughn hillyard has a live report from iowa.

you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. ends monday. only at sleep number. when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's going to cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. i found the cheaper price with singlecare! yes, you did. see. give it a try. go to singecare.com or download the free app today. we're travelling all across america,

talking to people about their hearts. wh-who wants to talk about their heart! how's the heart? how's your heart? how's your heart? -it's good. -is it? aah, i don't know. -it's okay. - it's okay! yeah. good. -you sure? - i think so. how do you know? it doesn't come with a manual, and you like ooh, i got the 20,000-day checkup, right? let me show you something. put two fingers right on those pads. look at that! that's your heart! that is pretty awesome. with kardiamobile, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think this costs? probably in the hundreds. $79. oh wow! that could be cheaper than a tank of gas. this year, make a resolution to take care of your heart. don't wait. get kardiamobile today for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon.

more than 12 years ago after donald trump first spread fake birther claims against then president barack obama, the 2024 republican front-runner now is using the same attack against one of his primary opponents. on social media monday, trump shared an article from a far-right news website claiming former u.n. ambassador nikki haley is ineligible to be president because her parents were not u.s. citizens at the time of her birth. that is nonsense. haley was born in south carolina to parents who, of course, legally emigrated from india several years earlier. she was born here. thicle shared by trump, who is the son of a scottish immigrant, flies in the face of the4th amendment, which states, quote, all persons born or naturalized in the united states are citizens. "the wall street journal" editorial board asked in a new piece, if mr. trump i such a strong candidate, why is he afraid of miss haley? the attacks on miss haley,

writes the journal, about her immigration policies take her commts out of context. mr. trump is attacking miss haley for suggesting that migrants who come to the u. illegally are looking for a better life. we don't need to be disrespectful, we don't need to talk about them as criminals, she said, at an event in 2015. this decency may be one reason she runs ahead of mr. biden in general election polls, unlike mr. trump who's running about even with the president. "the journal" goes on to write, mr. trump is polling above 50% in national gop surveys and republicans may dece to gamble on the chaos of a second trump term. the former president thinks it's above him to have a contest in the primaries and expects a coronation. but voters get a say. iowa and new hampshire have been known to surprise and the 45th president is behaving like that is the verdict he fears. and joe, there is some new polling out of new hampshire that every time a new one comes up, it shows nikki haley getting closer and closer and closer to donald trump, which is why now he's turning desperately to a

birther conspiracy once again. >> right. and "the wall street journal" -- lead editorial asked the question, who's afraid of nikki haley? the answer, donald trump. donald trump, who is as you pointed out, the son of an immigrant, and claire mccatskill, the preposterous of this, donald trump of sharing something that says that the daughter of an immigrant can't be vice president or president is so preposterous, for so many reasons, because donald trump, son of an immigrant, and four of his five children are -- have a mother -- mothers who are immigrants to this country. and yet, here we go again. the lies start, this time, though, instead of aimed at barack obama, it is aimed at a republican who right now is

catching up in new hampshire. >> a lack of moral character in this man continues to amaze me. the other thing we need to add here, joe, is his mother-in-law, who only became a citizen in 2018, has just died. and she and her husband both came here and both finally became citizens while he was president of the united states and they are the parents of his wife and the grandparents of his son, and by the way, have lived with him for most of the last decade. it is just amazing to me that he can isolate how he should feel, if he's a normal human being, for people who legally go through this process and have children, how he can do this to them. it is just stunning. this would be such a disqualification for any human being on the planet running for

president, except this guy. and to my dying breath, i will never understand people who are educated getting onboard with somebody who has no moral character whatsoever. >> well, people who are educated that are getting onboard with somebody that is now arguing that he can have s.e.a.l. team 6 assassinate political rivals and be immune from prosecution, who say generals who are insufficiently loyal to him can be executed for treason, saying that he can take tv networks off the air if they're insufficiently loyal to him, saying that he can terminate the constitution if that's required to stay in power. the list goes on. and you know, chris matthews, i want to look at the people who are voting for donald trump, because he's supposedly a guy who hates immigrants. he's supposedly a guy who's going to keep immigrants away.

what are they talking about?! have they looked at donald trump's life? again, his children, four of his five children had moms who were immigrants! donald trump himself was born to an immigrant! and you look at his golf courses, you look at his buildings and restaurants, donald trump, he has built his crumbling empire -- he has built it on immigrants that come to this country and work for him! yet he's sitting here being the guy who hates immigrants. well, you know, he uses it, and now he's going against an immigrant -- an immigrant's daughter, who is gaining on him. it's such nonsense, but again, i just -- i can't believe that my former party still is under the sway of such a hypocrite, and a hypocrite who thinks he can go

around killing people and be immune. >> you know, ronald reagan, when we were working against him, when i was working for president carter, we watched him at the statute of liberty on labor day of 1980. and it was a stunning appearance in new jersey, overlooking the harbor there and the statute of liberty, which is all about coming to america. it's all about people coming for naturalization ceremonies, which you and i know, joe and mika, if you've ever been to a naturalization ceremony, you're overwhelmed with your emotions. people who want to be, all over the world who want to become americans, americans! they really want to be americans. and you see the power of that. and then you notice how he does this. it's like his word "vermin," he goes after president obama, and he goes after nikki haley, and he's going after the fact of their roots. he's not going after who they are. it's their roots. he's playing on their foreignness. he's -- oh, his father's from kenya, oh, that's interesting.

think about that for a while, you bad people. because i know who i'm talking to. the bad people. and you think, oh, she's indian, that's interesting. and her mother, that's interesting. her father. oh, that's interesting. let's focus on that. he knows how to work on the isolationism, the terrible attitude americans have about being nativists. and most people are not native, my grandmother is from ireland and my grandfather is from england. they're normal. that's part of being an american. and reagan knew that. reagan said, i'm going to get those democrats from the east. i'm going back to new york and philly and chicago and boston. i'm going to get them back in my party, because i know they know where their roots were. and he knew how to play it. he was so good at it. he was such an american about it. >> such an american about it. >> this guy isn't. >> no. speaking of being an american, i had a guy a long time ago who worked for simon and shuster.

he did some research that i didn't know about, about me and my family and he was looking for immigrants and katty, what he discovered was, and i guess is the case, like we've -- my mom's side, the clarks, they've been in america for like hundreds and hundreds -- it's just -- it just traces back, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years, we still haven't found the immigrant family that came over here, right? so my family's been here probably about 300, 400 years. do you know what the glory of herk is that donald trump and his followers will never understand, but i'm sure you do? and we heard roger bennett talk about it before. that today, somewhere, somebody's going to hold up their hand and they're going to become american citizens, and what chris matthews said is one of the most moving ceremonies any of us have ever seen.

and in that moment today, they will be every bit as much of an american as somebody whose family has lived here for 400 years. that is the glory of america, and that is the heinous blind spot that donald trump misses and his supporters miss. >> yeah, i mean, look, you are all immigrants. you, chris, mika, me, donald trump, ron desantis is an immigrant and it's interesting that he hasn't raised questions about ron desantis' background, either. it's nikki haley. you're right about that ceremony, i wept to hi husband's. and here's what distinguishes immigrants in america from every other country. you stand there in that ceremony, and you're sworn in as an american, and the judge told my husband, you are an american, but never forget, that you also come from ghana, you also come from india, you also come from

italy, you also come from england, and keep those foods with you, keep those traditions with you, keep those languages with you, because that is what is part of america as well. and politically, that's why i think america is so much more robust than europe, for example, when it comes to dealing with islamic extremism internally. you don't have it, because muslims come to america, and they're americans first, but allowed to keep those traditions, as well. they're not forced into being one cookie cutter way. and it's that diversity that makes this country strong. and i think that's what donald trump is missing when he tries to make people other. it allows nikki haley to be proud of her american roots, but also be american. and by splitting those two things off, i think you tear at the fabric of this country. >> well, we're only five days away now from learning how voters feel about everything we talk about every morning. joining us now from des moines, iowa, is nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. good morning, vaughn. five days out, what are you

hearing on the ground? >> reporter: look, we're seeing that donald trump continues to hold the dominating lead in the polling. the morning console poll this week is the latest. he's up 68%, to ron desantis' 15% here. but let's be frank about a part of the republican party that still exists. you could call it that nikki haley 16% or the 30%, if you combine the two or potentially even greater, if you look beyond. so those folks that have left the republican party have become independents. and those are the folks who often over the last months, we've attempted to talk to on the ground for our written articles, but also to go on tv. and there is a visceral fear, a hesitancy, among a great many of them to speak out for fear of being shunned by family, friends, and community members. and that is why, as we approach the caucus and these primaries ahead, we thought it was important to share three voices who were willing to speak up and

share their stories. >> people go below the belt and they take after donald trump, because donald trump goes below the belt. >> reporter: kyle claire first fell in love with politics in 2015 because of donald trump. >> he'd make jokes on stage, you know, he'd have these big, fun rallies. >> no place like being at a trump rally, do we right? >> but now a junior at the university of iowa and a college republican, he wants the party to move beyond trump. we first met kyle in august at a gop debate watch party, where he first shared with us his changed view and frustration with supporters still loyal to trump. in a video posted on tiktok -- >> they don't want to believe he lost the election. it's hard to swallow. losing is hard to swallow. >> reporter: the fallout from speaking out, personal attacks, including on his sexuality by others who watched the video online. >> i had someone come up to me who recognized me, just from the video, and put a camera in my face and was filming me and asked me why i was so scared of

donald trump, i should be more scared of getting aids from having gay sex. >> so what extent is fear a part of this? >> oh, fear is 100% a part of it. >> reporter: barbara spencer lives 300 miles north of kyle, a resident of a decorra, iowa, nursing home. >> you voted for trump in 2016? >> yeah, i thought, maybe this man is really going to do something good. >> reporter: but barbara now says she's one of the only outspoken voices against him at her nursing home. >> there are so many things that he's said that he's going to do this and do that to get even with people. >> i am your retribution. i am your retribution. >> and that's just like an accelerant. >> reporter: barbara and kyle, they're not alone. we've heard this often over the last year, and those who do publicly speak out, anxious of being shunned by friends, family, or others in their communities. >> i don't talk about donald trump a lot, because i'm afraid of the backlash and so, for me to do this is really a step out

of my comfort zone. >> reporter: public polls of the republican presidential contest show that trump remains popular with most gop voters. it's more than just candidates like nikki haley and ron desantis, choosing how far to go in taking on trump. it's also the party's voters. >> people can be vicious online, especially behind a screen. you know, people can leave -- can say things about you and they don't even know you. i want people to know that i'm still a conservative, i still have conservative values, i'm a republican. but just because i'm not a big fan of donald trump right now does not mean that i'm not a republican. >> reporter: guys, this is a wing of the republican party that feels like it has no home. each of those three voices you just heard from said that they wish that liz cheney was running for president of the united states. this is a conversation that is happening in realtime, in january of 2024. we're going to stay in touch

with them, because it's going to be ever-evolving, as the political stakes in this country become ever the more clear, and as donald trump walks towards a likely iowa caucus win, a potential gop nomination, it's folks like kyle who you've heard from who are actively trying to figure out where they go and where they belong in a republican party dominated by the likes of donald trump. >> really powerful conversations there. nbc's vaughn hillyard, thanks for bringing them to us from iowa. we appreciate it. joe, there's a lot to sift through there. obviously, the kind of hate that some of these people who have left donald trump have put out there, publicly, are getting online, something that comes from the top, donald trump encourages that, if you're not onboard with us, you've got to go after them. and also to hear barbara, the older woman we heard there say in 2015, 2016, i listened donald trump. i thought, maybe he's going to go into washington and shake things up. he's an outsider. he'll be the guy on "the

apprentice", making things happen. there are republicans who feel that way, and a lot of them that we talked to, the question will be, are there enough, not in iowa, maybe. >> and here's the real problem, last night, i was on mark halperin's conference calls where experts for new hampshire and iowa and washington get together and they were talking at length about iowa, talking at length about new hampshire and how there is a growing belief in new hampshire that nikki haley, among the employees that nikki haley can really do very well there and possibly upset donald trump. but it's very interesting, vim weber spoke and he said that he

spends half of his time in alexandria, virginia, and you almost have to find a private detective to find somebody who will admit to supporting trump. and then he says he spends the other half of his time in northern minnesota, an area represented. and clary joked. he said, you have to find a private detective there to find somebody who is not a donald trump supporter. which i bring that up, because, think of the rural areas in iowa and think about the iowa caucuses. and one of the reasons i don't like caucuses is because if you're in a rural community and you're afraid to speak up and speak out against donald trump,

>> and the caucus versus the secret ballots and works to his advantage in most of iowa. and maybe in some of the really concentrated college communities, maybe in some of the larger cities, there will be caucus sites that won't be as bad. but for the vast majority of iowa, it will be like the vast majority of missouri. if you are not on donald trump's bandwagon, if you're not a member of the cult, then you just stay quiet. and caucuses, you can't do that. everybody sees which corner of the room you go to, who you are joining. and i think it is another reason why a caucus should never be first. it should always be a secret ballot in these situations. and why, i think, nikki haley

will do well in new hampshire. and i've said from the very beginning, what joe biden has to do is not just look at swing voters who go back and forth, but he's got to look at that 25% of the republican party that is still thinking clearly, does understand that donald trump as president is a real danger to america. 25% of a party who's never been onboard with donald trump since he took the oath of office, that's a lot. that's way more than what joe biden has to worry about within the democratic party. if anybody wants to wring their hands and mash their teeth over some softening in the black vote and young vote and black and brown vote. but think about the softening that you have 25% that aren't going to go for you no matter what. >> my god, we see this all the time, claire. people come home. the closer you get to an election, the more people come home. and when it has to do with donald trump, democrats are going to come home. the bigger problem is that right now, donald trump has about 25% of americans, republicans, that

have been opposed to him since he became president of the united states. that's why republicans have lost every election since 2017. we're going to see if they want to set themselves up to lose again the eight year in a row. speaking of new hampshire. our next guest says a rematch between president biden and donald trump is going to actually offer the best chance in a generation for a libertarian presidential nominee. let's bring in the executive director of the libertarian policy institute, nick sowert. i want to talk about new hampshire, first. last night, hearing from a lot of new hampshire pros on both the democratic and the republican side, saying that they see a weakness in donald trump there and that nikki haley has a shot. what's your view? do you think that hailey has a good chance of winning the republican primary? >> from on the ground here in manchester, i've been watching

this -- i have a bird's eye view of it over four years. nikki haley is on track to have a solid second place finish behind donald trump, because it's new england. and in new england, trumpism is not as popular as it is in the midwest. but the truth of the matter is that as you talked about in one of the earlier segments, america is built on an ideal that all men are created equal. and that idea, if you're willing to abide by that and the rule of law, you can come here and become an american. it's very inclusive and welcoming. and there's always been a counterstrain in american politics of nativism and seclusion and polarization, intimidation and violence, periodically through our history, these waves come. nati and these waves come and that's what trump is tapped into with an incredible focus. i think the real challenge for nikki haley here, and anywhere

past here, is she's unwilling to confront the lack of integrity, the hypocrisy, and the fighting against the 14th amendment, part of the constitution that was fought over in the civil war that trump represents. i don't think she can close the deal, not with the 25% of the just over 20% of americans that still identify as republicans, but with the 49% of americans who believe in integrity and values and the rule of law, and her promise to pardon donald trump, i thinks a nonstarter for voters like that. >> so let me ask you about opportunities for the libertarian party. you believe that a match up between donald trump and joe biden offers the libertarian party the best chance, their

nominee the best chance, in over a generation. how many disaffected republicans have you heard from over the last few years -- i have said this for years, when republicans are in the white house, they spend more money than democrats, and you look at deficits and debt under george bush, and they exploded, and then you look at donald trump who said he would pay down the debt, and the biggest deficits in u.s. history, the biggest national debt in u.s. history, and donald trump over four years -- over four years added to the national debt more than every american president from our founding to, like, 2004. so tell me, what is the

opportunity to take republican votes away from a party that spends, as i say, like drunken socialists when they are in power and in washington and get them to vote libertarian? >> well, over 50 years of work the party has been doing to be on every ballot, and we have been on the ballot in all 50 states and the district of columbia, and at this point donald trump has driven out of the republican party the kind of pro business, pro market, pro gay rights, pluralistic, normal-of-the-road american, and they want lower taxes and smarter government spending on things we agree, on and they don't have a place to go right now. go spwaobg what is going to be a

rematch two different presidents, and both who have high neglects,ing and an opportunity that is on all 50 state ballots, and has a pro american market is huge, and i look at mark cuban, and stuff he has done in solving a health care crisis, and somebody like that if they wanted to enter into the arena would have a great chance in 2024, although he's interested in texas right now. >> let's have you come back and talk about that more. executive director of the libertarian policy institute, nick, thank you for being us with. great to see you again.

>> thank you. >> just following up, mika, on what nick said as far as donald trump, and driving away pro market, small government conservatives, "wall street journal" this morning in their editorial on who is afraid of nikki haley says the irony is that mr. trump is the only republican running on raising taxes, and big-time. it's called his 10% tariff on all goods imported into the united states. "the wall street journal" editorial page talking about how donald trump is the only candidate running, promising to raise taxes. he's not conservative and we all know that, and there are other opportunities for republicans to run, and for a libertarian candidate to run the case and take a lot of votes away from donald trump. >> there are opportunities for republicans to run as

republicans. by the way, this past weekend in iowa, donald trump also promised this if he wins a second term. >> and we're going to fight for much better health care than obamacare. obamacare is a catastrophe, and without john mccain, we would have had it done, and remember, mccain he couldn't raise his arm, he did that, and that was that. >> trump's attacks on the affordable care act keep proving to be a political loser. 14 years later the landmark has broken the all-time enrollments record for the third consecutive year. this is the same legislation that republicans wanted to repeal and replace, repeal and replace. they always said they want to

repeal and replace, but they never had anything to replace it with. joining us now, secretary of health and human services, xavier becerra, and here with an announcement here first on "morning joe" about the record-breaking enrollment numbers. what is it, sir? >> mika, when you can say there are 20 millions americans today that have peace of mind because they have their own health care coverage, that's a success. the affordable care act has proven millions of americans have to have piece of mind. rather than try about the trifecta, soerblg social security, medicare, and medicaid, and now the aca market places are giving americans that peace of mind they need.

>> chris matthews, what are your thoughts on that, and republicans hate the aca and would have nothing to do with it. >> well, lot of people vote democratic because they like social security, they do really like it, and for a lot of people it's their survival money, and it's the greatest anti-poverty program in american history, because people didn't have anything when they get old and they gave their money away to tuition and everything else, and now you have medicare, and medicare plus in some cases, and medicaid for long-term care, and people say that's for poor people, but when people have a long-term care situation, they rely on medicaid, and that's a fact. and then they got a health care

program through thanks to pelosi, and her ability to move the democratic party in a way that could get something done, which she did. it's here. i think that when people want health care, they always say how is your health insurance doing? if you have not been sick, they say it has been great. it's great because i have not needed it, but when you need it, it's the life saver. >> nancy pelosi calls it her greatest achievement, and it's incredible but not perfect, but an incredible achievement. >> and barack obama probably sends her flowers every day because of that. and another thing they are tackling is the high price of prescription drugs in the country, and we talked about the disconnect about how the economy is doing and how americans feel the economy is doing, and what

are they doing about getting the news out about prescription drugs? >> rather than talking about repealing something that gives people peace of mind, the president is doing outreach, and what comes with the affordable care act, and it sells itself. when you can get health insurance coverage for $10 or less a month in premiums, and if you are talking about a month's worth of health care coverage for $10 or less in premiums. the problems the previous administration made no effort to let people know what they could get. we're out there, and we're not waiting for them to come for us and we are going to them, and the 20 million people shows it. it's 20 million today, and it's going to be more than that by the time we finish the enrollment period, which is tuesday the 16th.

to anybody watching, please, take a look and see what you can get for $10 or less a month. >> xavier becerra, thank you very much for announcing the record number of enrollees of aca. it's not being repealed or replaced. the next hour of "morning joe" is happening right now. >> it would open a pandora's box for which this nation may never recover. >> i understand your position to be that the president is immune from prosecution for any official act he takes as president, even if it's taken for an unlawful or unconstitutional act.

>> i think it's paradox kul to say that his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed allows him to violate criminal laws. >> the federal appeals judges seemed very skeptical of donald trump's immunity claims during yesterday's hearing. we will have expert legal analysis for you straight ahead on all of that. meanwhile, the former president is floating another birther conspiracy. we will tell you who he's targeting this time. on capitol hill, house republicans will hold two hearings today focused on hunter biden, and homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas. then out of the middle east,

antony blinken and others at odds for a postwar gaza. days after an explosion on a max 9 jet, the ceo is acknowledging the mistakes, and also we will talk about lloyd austin and his health. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's a very busy wednesday, january 10th. joe. >> it is very busy, and as far as boeing goes, not a great stretch that if your plane blows apart in midair that you take responsibility. i will say, willie, it's interesting if you look at the editorial in the "wall street journal" today, the question is who is afraid of nikki haley? the answer is donald trump. trump is going after her, and we

will talk about a new birther conspiracy that he seems to be floating again against nikki haley. why would donald trump be concerned? there are a lot of new hampshire insiders that are now starting to state polls seem to be getting tight, and the latest cnn poll has her within single digits, and there are feelings on the ground that this may be a significant win for nikki haley, even if it's one or two points, it would be quite a shock. we remember back in 2016 in new hampshire, over 4,000 people showed up in a snowstorm. i had never seen any primary rally like that primary valley. donald trump goes from having that dominance and command in new hampshire to losing to nikki haley. he understands that he then has a month between new hampshire

and south carolina, and he will be melting down. that melting down, as he always does, especially after he's a loser, we remember how he acted after he was a loser to ted cruz, and after he was a loser to joe biden, that entire month will be donald trump melting down saying horrible things about nikki haley, and i think will not cause a massive threat to nikki haley, and it will make republicans go, wait, is this really the guy we want representing us in the general election? >> he clearly hears the footsteps, and that's why you saw him amplifying a birther conspiracy -- does that sound familiar -- a birther conspiracy against nikki haley. if she were to win the state of

new hampshire with all that time rolling down to south carolina, her home state where she serves as governor, and all of a sudden donald trump has a big problem. not going to say all that will play out, but it's clear he's a very transparent person, and we know he's worried about it and that's why he's talking about a wild conspiracy that nikki haley is not qualified under the constitution to run for president for the united states. a decision could come from the three-court judge panel that heard president trump's immunity claim. federal prosecutors and lawyers for the president made oral arguments yesterday in washington, d.c., and trump's legal team appealed an earlier ruling by federal judge, tanya chutkan, and the appeals court

panel seems skeptical, peppering them with questions about how far immunity would go under trump's theory. >> could a president order s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a -- >> he would have to be impeached and convicted -- >> but if he weren't, there would be no liability for that? >> well, the plain language all presuppose that what the founders were concerned -- >> i asked you a yes or no question. could a president who ordered s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, would he be subject to federal prosecution? >> if he was appealed --

>> your answer is no. >> donald trump walked in just before they got started, his seat a few feet away from jack smith. >> hold on, hold on, mika and willie. >> what? >> donald trump's attorney said yesterday, if he pull were, you know, chewing the great nuts, and they are, like, you can hear that more than anything else, and it's hard to hear a conversation -- >> go on. >> but let alone our captain crunch with the crunch berries, and finish chewing the crunch berries, they're really good, and now that we got your attention. >> yeah. >> willie, donald trump's attorney said that donald trump,

and donald trump believes this, actually, that he could get s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate somebody for him, and he would be immune from criminal prosecution, that's what he said, that's where we are, and the chilling thing is that's not just a bumbling attorney, that's what donald trump beliefs. >> it's what he believes and what he said for years about shooting somebody on fifth avenue and getting away from it, and now they said it out loud and you all just heard it, he could order a political opponent to be assassinated by s.e.a.l. team 6 and be immune from prosecution. what do you say to that? let's ask chuck rosenberg, conservative attorney, george conway, and katty kay.

>> i think they painted themselves into a corner by taking this absolutist position, willie, that was simple, silly and wrong. the notion the only way you could prosecute a president, a former president in this case, is if he is impeached in the house and convicted in the senate, then you could proceed is utter nonsense. if you read their briefs, and i am a nerd and read their argument before this, and so the questions you heard from the judges are what you would expect. judges love to test hypotheticals. they love to trot out the most ridiculous example. you don't expect a good litigator to take it at face value. you would expect him to distinguish it in some way.

there was a way to distinguish it. he didn't do it. it was a ridiculous answer and exposes the fallacy of their argument. >> and the question is, of course, is there anything so outlandish that he could do that -- help us and our audience understand if they eat the crunch berries, donald trump would have been convicted in the impeachment trial for there to be no immunity, and when they were in the impeachment trial, they said, no it had to be settled in the courts, and then -- >> in a shocking development, politicians are making expedient arguments and not legal ones. you are quite right. the argument they are advancing is the only way a president

could have immunity is if they were impeached in the house and convicted in the senate. that's not right as a matter of law, and mitch mcconnell said different things during the impeachment hearing, simply to push the impeachment hearing off, and it worked then but it is not working now. i am not in the business of making predictions, and i would be shocked if the court of appeals or if the supreme court ultimately accepted this argument at face value and found out the president is immune from prosecution under the terms his attorneys set out. it doesn't add up. >> george conway, you have a piece entitled "trump's lawyers walked into a trap." what's the trap? >> what chuck was talking about. i will disagree slightly with trump in saying i am not sure

the capitol insurrection is different than the s.e.a.l. 6 team. an argument is based on the impeachment judgment clause, all that clause says is if you are tried and convicted and removed from office, and it could be the president or anybody else, you could be tried and convicted and sent to jail if after you are removed from office. they flip that around and say, oh, in order to convict a president, you must have a conviction in the senate first, which the clause does not say. that's how he came up with that argument in creating the exception for presidents who are convicted and they can be tried. the problem was it's extreme,

and the other problem was he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. the immunity argument is based upon -- and he kept repeating this over and over again, the specter of a future president, and i won't say who that would be, prosecuting his political opponents, and we can't have that and we can't have donald trump being prosecuted now, because we don't want political prosecutions, and at the same time he's saying you can have that and the president would not be immune if the congress of the united states said you can. on one hand he say you can't have political prosecution, and then he said the prosecution has to be political, and that's the one thing one judge asked that question, and she was pointing out how utterly inconsistent and two-faced the trump argument was. >> and it could take a lot of

time and push beyond the election, joe? >> i am not sure, and i am glad you brought up the timing question, and that's what i wanted to go to chuck with, and since this was such a preposterous argument, is there an argument where the d.c. court rejects it, and then they rubber stamp it, affirm it and send it back to the trial court? >> you know, joe, i'm somewhat bullish on the notion this case can be tried before the election. this is the one set for trial on march 4th in d.c. federal court before judge chutkan. in many ways it's the most straightforward case, one defendant and four charges. no case is easy, but this is a sim simpler one to prepare for.

>> chuck, what about the appeal? what about the appeal? the d.c. circuit went so bad for the trump team, and it's not a close call. isn't this something that the supreme court might look at and go, yeah, get it out of here here, go back to the trial court. >> my wind up was too slow. i apologize, joe. the circuit could decide, and i am not sure the supreme court would even take this case at this moment in time. if those things happen, you could have the case back on track quickly. i don't think the march 4th trial date is doomed, and it's endangered and could be pushed back for a few weeks and a month, but you could have a trial in this case i believe in late spring or early summer well

ahead of the election if the ifs line up. >> yeah, katty, it makes sense that the d.c. circuit panel completely stuffs the argument back in the lawyer's face, and it's such a weak argument, and chuck, i do know something about long wind ups before asking questions, and it's what i have been doing my whole adult life. here's my wind up, and now here's the pitch. it's fascinating, people are saying donald trump is in court. why is he in court instead of campaigning? and it's because donald trump is such a snowflake and such a victim, and trumpers get triggered so easily, and donald

trump thinks it will help him politically. >> i have never seen a turnip drop. we have seen these appearances be big money spenders, particularly early on. with each success of an appearance he makes, the money he brings to his campaign seems to be less. there were no cameras in the courtroom, and that doesn't help him, and we have the duh -- description of him, and he gave a mini lackluster conference in his former hotel down the road, and he couldn't address the crowds outside the courtroom, and the weather was terrible and there was so much weather outside the courtroom he couldn't do it. i am wondering whether with each

of the appearances does it become less of a political draw for him. i think willie is right that he always said, you know, i could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and get away with it, and i wonder in this case if it's more of a level of authoritativism. blanket immunity for anything he may ever do wrong, that seemed to be the logical extension in his mind. >> george, yeah, george conway, where does this end? do you believe as chuck believes that this argument is so preposterous that donald trump's lawyers will not be able to get a delay to get the entire supreme court to listen? is this something they brush

away because it's such a laughable argument? also, it's the d.c. circuit. this is not some random circuit out over some flyover space, as the justices would call it, from where i am from? >> i am as bullish as he is, and i think the date can stick, and i think they got a head start writing the opinion, and if i was the presiding judge i would have started writing the opinion already. i don't think there will be a big, you know, a big deal when it comes to getting that opinion out. i think there's a good chance the supreme court won't take it. even if the supreme court does take it, and hears argument in march or april, they could issue a decision in may or june and we

would still have a summer trial. i think one way or the other, this case will be tried before the fall. >> we already heard donald trump's core argument when he comes out of the court and says if i am convicted, there will be something, and it's just violence. how do you think they will weigh the question if it makes its way up? >> if you have a good opinion from the district court judge, judge chutkan, and you do, and you have a sound decision from the d.c. circuit panel, and i agree with george and we will have that soon, there could be nothing for the supreme court to weigh in on. remember, they get thousands and thousands of petitions each year from folks that want the supreme court to hear the case. their jurisdiction in almost every case is completely

elective. they are not required to hear this. so if you look at the reasoning below and they agree with it, my suspicion is they move on. i am not sure why they would need to take the case what i expect the d.c. circuit will say. coming up, impeachment filed against defense secretary, lloyd austin. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." "morning joe." and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some... and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb.

serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. abbvie could help you save.

when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's going to cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. i found the cheaper price with singlecare! yes, you did. see. give it a try. go to singecare.com or download the free app today.

moving on now to the republican-led house oversight and judiciary committees holding markups on contempt charges on hunter biden after he refused a congressional subpoena to testify in private after he showed up to testify in public. they will hold a hearing on the

possible impeachment on alejandro mayorkas. let's bring in julie. where do you want to begin. these house republicans have a busy day of definitely obsessing over folks, anybody close to joe biden? >> i want to point out, normally impeachment proceedings will be in the judiciary committee, and the dynamic i am following here that is so interesting is while you have the border issue, and you have republicans impeaching him or trying to in the house, and then i asked roger marshal

from kansas, for example, what happens, how can you accept a deal on one hand on the border while you are impeaching the guy in the room trying to seal it. >> for me it's very concerning. you know, i typically don't sit down at a table with a person i don't trust. on one hand we're saying he should be impeached and on the other happened we are negotiating with him, and we are not the ones that we can choose who they send to the negotiations. this is a once in a generation opportunity to secure the border, and i am willing to do this however we can. >> so clearly you have the group of senate republicans who are agreeing with the impeachment push and went to the floor to try and call for a vote of no confidence, and you have him criticizing the guy in the room who is giving advice on the

border policy, and then trying to impeachment him, and it's something that will be very interesting optic -- >> do the republicans really want one? many will say i don't want a deal that will make joe biden look good. hunter biden, what do you make about the focus on hunter today? >> it's nonsense. he's never held public office. he's never going to hold public office. i am happy to see if he ever did, we will impeach him, and that's great, and they -- he never had a connection to the president, and this will go

nowhere. they have to bang the drums to placate the base. they are ready to be kamikaze pilots. >> is it a hearing so they could swamp the airwaves so they could talk about hunter biden? >> yeah, they can say look at what we are doing, we are going after a guy that doesn't have to do with anything else. it's beyond crazy. >> joe, what do you make of it? >> well, they are playing up to that a small portion, and most people don't know who he is or his name, and they are playing for the cheap seats. you had a republican who is lined up to impeach him, and he's negotiating with the secretary, and he talked about -- here's the phrase, he

talked about a once in a generation opportunity to secure the border, and that tells me this is something james langford has been working for for quite sometime. it tells me even the most conservative republicans in the senate are actually considering finally, finally entering into an immigration deal, and the democrats in the senate are finally, finally talking about putting some real teeth into a border security plan where the two sides can come together, and start bringing relief to the humanitarian crisis that has been swelling at the border since trump became president of the united states. >> yeah, that's the question we have been talking about for weeks now, do republicans want a solution to the border crisis and it's a crisis, or do they want to hang on to the issue to the 2024 election so they can hammer the president on it. what is the progress on the senate side, at least, and we

know the noise in the house will continue on the senate side and the bipartisan negotiations about the border and immigration, are those real? is there reason for optimism there or is it a signal from some republicans, like senator langford that we are serious about this, but it's not actually going to go anywhere? >> negotiations are 100% serious. there's no reason senator langford or murphy would be risking so much capital by being seen trying to bridge the gap on something so politically fraught congress could not address it for four decades, and i think leadership in the house and senate want the deal, and the democratic majorities will have to carry the deal if they want to push it through, not only in the senate but in the house. it's for that reason some of the trickier issues, like

humanitarian parole, and that's extremely to figure out when you have republicans wanting to restrict the biden administration's ability to use that authority, and then the democrats are pushing back bringing up resettled ukrainian and afghan refugees, and there are still outstanding problems here, and this is tied to ukraine. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent, julie, thank you. letitia james decided he needed more money back from that situation, and this is just days away? >> yeah, it's his magical litigation tour. as joe put it earlier, i mean, he loves -- first of all, he went yesterday because, as chuck previously said, there's a delay

aspect to it, and there's also a fundraising aspect to it, and there's -- as joe said, there was a narcissistic victimization aspect, but he's fighting for his life here. he's fighting for his freedom here. these cases, these criminal cases, not the civil one in new york -- >> that's just money. >> that's just money and that means a lot to him, and these cases will put him away for the rest of his life, and i think it will. that's why he's desperate to make the immunity arguments, and they are hail marys at best, and he has to be fearing -- he ran for re-election in 2020 in part because he knows deep down he's a criminal and he -- and that the law is catching up to him. >> katty, katty, look at the abc news headline at the bottom of the screen, trump will

reportedly deliver -- i'm sorry, it's hard to even read. okay, let me read it with a straight face. >> you can do it. >> you can do it. >> it's not possible. >> trump will reportedly deliver part of his new york fraud closing arguments himself. willie -- >> please, please do it. >> the cable news gods, raining manna down from the heavens. forget cable news, the late-night comics, willie, and oh, my god, they will have a field day on this. >> he does believe he's his own best representation, he alone can fix it, and he thinks he's so persuasive and charming, that if he got face-to-face with a jury, they would come along with him. >> and this is the hat george conway gave me to give you, joe,

i feel bad for them as they watch the closing arguments on thursday, as donald trump delivers them. by the way, we are reclaiming the red hat. you made this one, and mine says know your value. coming up, the u.s. and israel are united in the war against hamas but appear to be sharply divided over the fans for the future of gaza. we will talk about the meeting with blinken and netanyahu and his war cabinet. "morning joe" will be right back. back psoriasis tried to hide from you. or finding your swimsuit is ready for primetime. ♪♪ dad! once—daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma,

muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. ♪i'm hearing different ways for me to screen for colon cancer.♪ ♪it's time to use my voice,♪ ♪i've got a choice, more than one answer.♪ ♪i sat down with my doc.♪ we had a talk. ♪knew just what to say.♪ ♪i asked for cologuard and did it my way.♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪i did it my way!♪

(sigh)

(snoring) if you struggle with cpap... you should check out inspire. honey? inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com

the united states and israel are disagreeing on plans for postwar gaza. secretary of state, antony blinken, met with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his war cabinet yesterday to discuss the future of the territory. blinkelan based on discussions he had earlier in the week with other leaders, he

urged those officials to play a role in gaza, and the leaders told blinken they want to see a serious path towards creating a palestinian state. there could not be a long-term solution for the conflict without that, and netanyahu and his government are flatly rejecting of the calls, and some calling for the mass removal of palestinians from gaza, and israel said they would go to the families of the nazis in gaza. >> israel must be a partner to palestinian leaders that are willing to lead their people living side by side and in peace with israel and with neighbors, and israel must stop taking steps that undercut the palestinians ability to live.

if israel wants its arab nations to make the tough decisions necessary to make sure there's lasting security. >> andrea mitchell sat down with antony blinken in tel aviv, and you can watch her exclusive interview with "andrea mitchell reports" today at noon, eastern. joining us is foreign correspondent, richard engel. >> reporter: antony blinken arrived with what sounded like carrots for israel, incentives, and he has had a trip across the arab world trying to build some sort of consensus, and he came with a package from the arab states, saying the arab world is

willing to resume a normalization process, resume making peace deals with israel, including saudi arabia going back towards potentially having a full diplomatic agreement with israel on the condition that it end the war in gaza, that it change the leadership structure allowing a single palestinian government to run the west bank and gaza, and most critically that it relaunch the long frozen peace process, what used to be called the oslo accord, and it would lead to the creation of a palestinian state. that's something prime minister benjamin netanyahu and this hard-right government that he has formed, the most right-wing government in modern israel's history have rejected, and the finance ministry was rejecting it out of hand, and they are calling for the palestinian authority to be replaced by

israeli settlers. it's not something this government in its current configuration will accept. what we saw is secretary blinken putting out the plan, and he went and met with the palestinian president, and people were telling him to go home and accusing the united states of not doing enough to defend palestinian people in the placate of the october 7th attacks, and then later today there will be another summit. we are seeing a flury of diplomatic activity in jordan with the president of egypt, the king of jordan and the president of the palestinian authority, mr. abbas. coming up, steve kornacki is at the big board with his latest

read on iowa now just five days from the caucuses there. "morning joe" is coming right back. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema—fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. help heal your painful skin— disrupt the itch & rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save.

he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

singlecare is amazing. even though i have insurance, it can't beat the pricing i get on my medication through singlecare. before i submit any prescriptions, i always check singlecare first! just go to singlecare.com, search for your prescription and show the coupon to your pharmacist. millions of people on medicare, just like me, use singlecare every month, and you can too! visit singlecare.com and start saving today. get over here kids. use singlecare every month, and you can too! time for today's lesson.

wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now.

coming up, can democrats keep control of the senate this november. we will talk with the chairman of the party's campaign committee when senator gary peters joins the table straight ahead on "morning joe."

only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. ends monday. only at sleep number. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

it's a new week and republicans have a different field of presidential candidates. 52 past the hour -- today here in washington, i'll be hosting a know your value event at the white house with first lady dr. jill biden. 'll speak in the east room discussing the first lady's life, career and the pivotal year ahead. you can watch that exclusive interview in the coming days right here on "morning joe." you know the first lady helped us launch our inaugural forbes and know your value 50 over 50 list back in 2021 and last night

we announced the third annual 50 over 50 list for europe, the middle east and africa, we immediately went global. we continue to honor women who have found significant success after the age of 50 and in some cases well over 50. here to tell us more about the latest list and our upcoming summit, maggie mcgrath and huma abedin. the women who made our list hail from 29 countries and territories across the world, they work across two dozen industries, one's from my jeer ya and she broke through the male-dominated architecture industry. >> globally, women account for roughly 20% of licensed architects. black women account for an even

smaller proportion. she's 55 years old, she's found of a.d. consulting, it's done more than one hundred projects across office spaces, educational facilities, private residences for local and international clientele. she's currently working on a $900 million housing complex. she fits into this list because she has a dedicated mentor. she told forbes that for as focused as she is on architecture she wants to foster the next generation of women african leaders. >> i love it. huma, from the uk, 52-year-old stella mccartney. >> she's sustainable fashion pioneer. she started her own namesake

lanl in 2001 and from the beginning and as you guys know, the fashion industry is the second highest polluting industry in the world. and since the beginning she's stayed away from using leather, fur and i was at an event with her in the dubai climate conference and she brought an exhibit that looks like it was off the runways in paris but these are sustainable. she's done this by collaborating with people exploring and creating cruelty-free alternatives. so she had a grape-based leather alternative, sequins made from tree -- >> oh, wow. it's possible to feel good, look good and also do good. >> maggie, let's move from stella mccartney to the widow of

former south african president nelson mandela. >> she's 78 years old a renowned humanitarian and politician, she has dedicated her career to advocating for women's rights, human rights in 1975 she became mozambique's literacy chief and she had also been married to mozambique's president. she has founded a number of organizations promoting human rights. through the elders she helped launch girls not brides to combat child marriage. in 2010 she launched her own

trust to advocate for women's financial empowerment. they have a women creating wealth program going on right now and they're telling female entrepreneurs in south africa we want to see you grow 10x. >> huma, also making the list a nobel peace prize. >> she was awarded the nobel peace prize this past fall in iran. because of her decades of activism while constantly being arrested, incarcerated, she's been in the infamous prison since 2021, quite a poignant moment 15-year-old twins accepted the award on her behalf in oslo in the fall. you can be behind bars and not be silenced. we need to keep talking about her and she really represents

all the people in iran particularly women. >> this new list comes less than two months before our third annual on 50 under 50 annual summit. it's mentoring, it's networking and we'll hear from some of the world's most influential leaders and innovators. huma, tell us -- this year especially, this event is going to -- last year's was incredible with billie jean king, hillary clinton, gloria steinem on one stage. there's going to be a different power and different emphasis, why is it so important for younger women. >> mika, it's about mentoring, it's about networking, it's about collaborating, doing it across generations and this time in the world so much has

happened in the last year and so trauma in that region it's all the more reason to have these con ver sayings, to be together, to learn from each other, to inspire each other, we announced and met yesterday to finalize some new speakers we'll announce, so stay tuned and it's an exciting roster of new people. incredible women. we announced vanessa mccourt, we're very excited about honoring her, a young climate act visit, she's taken the world by storm. we announced suze orman. has literally a cult following. we have so many women coming and can't wait -- >> big announcements in the next week or two. thank you all. see you both at our know vour value event at the white house.

for more information head over to knowyourvalue.com. we're 12 seconds into the fourth hour of "morning joe." we begin this hour with the big development in the federal elections interference charges against donald trump. yesterday, an appeals court panel heard oral arguments for trump's motion to dismiss the case on the basis of presidential immunity. his legal team is claiming he cannot be charged because trump was president at the time the alleged crimes would have taken place, with trump in the courtroom, the three-judge panel seemed skeptical of the argument. asking his attorneys hypotheticals about how far immunity would go. >> could a president order team s.e.a.l. 6 to assassinate a

political rival? >> he would have to be and speedily be, you know, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution. >> if he weren't no criminal prosecution, no criminal liability for that. >> chief justice's opinion, and our constitution and the plain language of the impeachment charge clause all prepropose that. >> i asked you a yes or no question could a president who ordered s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political rival who was not impeached, can he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> he was impeached and convicted. >> so your answer is no. >> decision on the appeal could come as early as today. joining us joyce vance, jon

heilman, adrian allrod. we'll get to the politics of this in a moment. joyce vance, i mean, except for this being a delay tactic what in the world was that attorney trying to accomplish during those oral arguments yesterday? >> sometimes your clint deals you a tough hand and mr. sauer certainly had a tough hand to handle with this panel. you don't want to be a lawyer forced to concede that your clint is immine ud from prosecution if he orders s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate political rival. essentially, their argument was precisely what we saw from the briefs and what we discussed from the past, accepting this narrow instance where a president is impeached and convicted on the impeachment he

can't be criminally prosecuted after he least office, he's in essence a king and above the law, the panel played out with trump's lawyer just how many ways there were for a president to duck impeachment and conviction including resignation if a conviction appeared imminent or even killing his rivals in the senate so there wouldn't be enough votes to convict on impeachment. in the end the judge put mr. sauer into a box and got him to concede that it had to be that presidents could be prosecuted in the court system, the only question was when and whether trump was eligible. >> so, as a delay tactic, how effective could this be, we had glenn kirshner on the show earlier, depending on the courts, everyone's getting a sense perhaps before voters make a decision as to who they want as their next president of the

united states it might be important to know whether he's a convicted criminal or an innocent man. >> i think glenn is dead on the money there, look, trump's lawyer closed his argument by pitching the court by extending the amount of time to delay. people haven't commented on this. but he asked the court to delay issuing the mandate and the mandate is the formal device that would restore jurisdiction to the district court to proceed with trial preparation. the special counsel's office has asked the court to promptly return jurisdiction to the district court, which would in essence force trump to quickly go to supreme court if they want him to hear the case, he could ask the full d.c. district of appeals to hear it. the answer to how quickly this moves at this point is how much

appetite do the courts have to cut off delay and make sure the american people have answers before they vote. >> it makes sense. jon, your take on this. >> my take is if i realized that being president of the united states gave you blanket immunity while you committed the crimes or after no matter what, whatever, i would have much more seriously considered running for president earlier in my life. you said how long it will take, depends on the appetites of the courts to take these up, the appeals court level or the supreme court level, i don't like you to -- i don't like to invite you to speculate. mostly in political sense, i think for the sake of the country, are we going to get to hear this case before votes are taken in november still

competent or optimistic about that? >> so, i think this case absolutely can be tried before the election perhaps even before the republican convention, this panel yesterday, they were loaded for bear, they came with all the questions, you could hear the arguments they're thinking about ruling on. one red flag, it will be important for this decision to be both unanimous and unanimous in its reasoning. if the judges separate concurrences and take separate paths in getting to the result that make the full court or supreme court more likely to hear this case on appeal, but it's a straightforward linear decision and if it's one that's well grounded it's possible that the supreme court won't even take the case, they'll affirm, we could still see the supreme court take the case, but look, although many people have been critical of the supreme court

i've been among them, i don't like many of the substantive decisions in the last few terms, on this democracy issue, so clear that trump can't have immunity we could see supreme court motivated as well to go fast. >> on the republican side, let's talk about the politics of this, you don't have a lot of republicans talking about this, he gets a pass on everything, two of the three presidential candidates running against him won't talk about his legal woes, parentally he gets a pass on birtherism, i don't know if haley has given a strong response to the attacks on her humanity. we haven't seen it. so maybe we'll see it on the debate stage. but let's talk about the general election and how this impacts the politics of the general election, donald trump okay will use this as fodder. >> absolutely.

we know right now he's delivering red meat to his base, going from the courtroom to the campaign trail, this is actually helping him with the base if primary election, in the general election it doesn't help at all. you know very well, we're going to win the candidate who wins the general election will win by swing voters, suburban voters, and we have seen in poll after poll that swing voters, independent voters aren't keen on watching the presumptive gop nominee go back and forth between the campaign trail and the courtroom. it's not going to work for the general. >> okay, joyce vance, thank you very much. we really appreciate this. we look forward to more analysis. i think we need to have you back, because he's going back to court, what is it, tomorrow. >> all the time. >> tomorrow, thursday. >> thursday. >> for the civil fraud trial,

$370 million, they want to take away all his money, they say it's owed to new york. he's grifted off of everybody. see you tomorrow. democrats are facing an uphill battle this november to retain their narrow gnat majority, defending eight senate seats in states that president biden in 2020 either lost or won by less than five points. democrats hopes may rest in red states like montana and ohio. as jon tester and sherrod brown look to defy the odds and stay in office. to help those efforts the senate democratic campaign committee hired on the ground staff in both states. joining us is gary peters.

your hands are full. let's talk about trying to get these hard states, these senators re-elected. how hard is it going to be getting staff in the area and do we have the time? >> we have the time and we have two great candidates. that's why we're making significant investment, eight-figure investment in the ground game. we have battle-hardened incumbents and they're going to face flawed candidates. when you contrast that to sherrod brown who has fought for the people of ohio and delivered for the people of ohio i'm confident we're going to win. >> at the same time, i mean, is he in question, is his seat in question? >> certainly these are battleground states. montana and ohio are going to be tough states and we'll have to be focused on it. >> so, senator, great to see you.

question for you in terms of florida, i know that abortion access is going to likely to be on the pal lot in florida, how is that going to impact the senate race, obviously democrats have been losing ground there over the past few cycles. with abortion access on the ballot do you see ha helping democrats in the state? >> yeah, i think it's no question it's going to be a powerful factor and motivates young voters, 2020 was a critical factor for us in our targeted states there. so i would expect it to be very helpful and in our senate race, we're running against an incumbent senator who has never won any of his elections even when the republican tide was behind him by 1%. this is a very competitive race.

contrast to that, you're looking at the florida legislature that's taking very extreme views that's completely out of the main stream. >> it's unbelievable what's happening. jon. >> senator, i'm curious, we talk about this map looking very daunting for democrats, you have a lot of tough states, incumbents in very tough races, sherrod brown, the situation in a lot of places including west virginia, michigan, arizona, nevada, i'm curious about what you rank as the one or two likeliest democratic pickups, where are you focused on where you can gain a seat. >> my focus is to make sure that we hold our incumbents and bring all of our incumbents back. my incumbents remind me of that every week. that gets at 50/50.

if you look at our opportunities, we have two states, we just talked about florida, florida is without question an opportunity for us, we'll have a great candidate there, but texas is also an opportunity for us, we're running against an unpopular incumbent, ted cruz, his last re-election he won byless than two points, it's a competitive state and we believe that we have a great opportunity in texas as well. >> senator, just curious, as before we close about the potential for a border deal, i'm thinking, you know, overarching concern is about getting support to ukraine. >> we must get support to ukraine and we must get a border deal, democrats are focused on that, we want to make sure that we're securing our borders i think we're very close to coming to an agreement, i say that optimistically, i feel better now than i did two, three weeks ago about our ability there.

very delicate parts about the negotiations. as democrats we want to make sure we're securing the border and making sure that both israel and ukraine get the resources -- >> when you say you're close, what's the time line. >> we want to do this as quickly as possible, hopefully in a matter of days or weeks. >> okay, chair of the democratic senatorial campaign committee, gary peters, thank you very much. coming up, the latest action from the faa on that boeing jet that suffered an in-flight blowout. and how the company's ceo is responding. plus, a real decision on bitcoin is expected from the s.e.c. today after a bogus post from the agency's account on x said it had approved investment products tied to the cryptocurrency. also ahead, new reporting on

the republican push for the impeachment of president biden and a number of his cabinet officials. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ."

[coughs] when caroline has a cough, she takes robitussin. so, she can have those one on ones again. hey jim! can we talk about casual fridays? oh sure. what's up? get fast, powerful cough relief with robitussin, and find your voice. ♪robitussin♪ we're travelling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. wh-who wants to talk about their heart! how's the heart? how's your heart? how's your heart? -it's good. -is it? aah, i don't know. -it's okay. - it's okay! yeah. good. -you sure? - i think so. how do you know? it doesn't come with a manual, and you like ooh, i got the 20,000-day checkup, right? let me show you something. put two fingers right on those pads. look at that! that's your heart! that is pretty awesome. with kardiamobile, you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds, from anywhere. kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared

to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think this costs? probably in the hundreds. $79. oh wow! that could be cheaper than a tank of gas. this year, make a resolution to take care of your heart. don't wait. get kardiamobile today for just $79 at kardia.com or amazon. only unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans come with the ucard — one simple member card that opens doors for what matters. what if we need to see a doctor away from home? we got you — with medicare advantage's largest national provider network. only from unitedhealthcare.

some business news, nike and tiger woods just ended their 27-year partnership. tiger's about to be 50 he's trying to choose between new balance and floor shine. >> no boeing 737 max 9 jets will be clear to fly until inspected. the warning comes after an alaska airlines jet suffered an in-flight blowout on friday. the focus of the investigation is now on the bolts that were supposed to hold the door plug in place, nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: four days after that mid-air decompression explosion on an alaska airlines max 9, boeing ceo told employees

in a safety stand-down we're acknowledging our mistake, looking at the gapging hole, i've got kids and grandkids and so do you, this stuff matters, every detail matters the focus of the investigation that door plug that blew out of the plane friday held in position uing 12 stop pads and four bolts it may have shifted out of alignment the bolts are missing. a lab analysis will determine if they were ever in place, now both united and alaska airlines say they found loose bolts and hardwear in more grounded max 9s. ntsb chief. a suggest that this is bigger problem. >> it certainly could. right now, we're very focused on this aircraft. we want to determine how this happened. >> reporter: the door plug that blew off friday landed behind a high schoolteacher's house.

>> it was unbelievable that that people had been looking for all weekend happened to be in my yard. >> reporter: the faa said the safety of flying public, not speed, will determine the time line for returning the boeing 737-max 9 plane. a whistle-blower feels boeing's culture hasn't changed. >> if things don't change it will be a major tragedy and it's going to be horrible for families. >> let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc squawk box, andrew ross sorkin, this story scares me so much. boeing's chief is shaken to the bone, how do they fix this? >> the bigger issue is the culture and what do they do to oversee these issues to change the culture so nobody's rushing to put these planes into

operation, how are these bolts, you know, i think there's real question, were people doing what they were supposed to do versus the supplier in this case, whether the supplier was doing it right or wrong, boeing was overseeing it all, i think there's a culture question, a question that's been raised many, many times. the good news is, the safety record in the skies has been a remarkable thing to behold over the years and when something like this happens we focus on it, the good news about that, hopefully we won't have a tragic incident and in this case it wasn't, at the same time, clearly, things have to change and whether this ceo in david calhoun is the right ceo to make that change. >> all right, let's move on to the s.e. krechlt and a false post on x pertaining to bitcoin. >> this is wild. wild. because the expectation is that

this week, potentially as early as today, the s.e.c. could approve an etf for bitcoin, the first etf allowed investors to buy into bitcoin as an investor through your fidelity accounts and other accounts like that as opposed doing it through coinbase. and yesterday, head of that, the s.e.c. twitter account said they had approved it. then they had to turn around and say we didn't approve it. later today it's possible, we actually did approve it today. big questions about how people got access to that account. how that happened. twitter saying that it wasn't somebody not at the s.e.c., meaning that it wasn't that their computers were broken into, somebody had broken into the s.e.c. side and it's lesson

for all of us, double authenticate. two factor. they didn't have it. >> andrew, you know, it worries me that s.e.c. doesn't have two-factor. let's put that aside. i'm going speak here for the idiots of america, for whom i am one, bitcoin was going to be internet. bitcoin was consigned to the dust bin of history. is bitcoin back, are we going to have another surge in the bitcoin world? >> you know, in the short term probably not. there's a massive surge in the price. and that's been the expectation there could be this etf to invest, make it a much easier

access point. the question is not whether bitcoin is going to become a currency, the question is, is it digital gold? that you would have as an asset. here in the united states we don't need to use it in the same way, where countries there's massive inflation people use it. questions about a longer term basis how it works and whether it's back. i'd argue right now it's back to some level, the question is, what does it become. >> you're right about that pizza thing, i tried it. it doesn't work. >> it doesn't work. as long as it's going up why would you use it to buy anything, that's the real question. >> american and british warships have shot down a new barrage of missiles by houthi rebels in the red sea. 21 munitions were fired.

this is one of the largest attacks since the iran-backed militia began targeting container ships in the red sea, more than two dozen attacks since november 19th. the houthis say they're attacking ships because of israel's war if gas yashgs it has caused disruptions in global trade and prompted some companies to re-route their ships. last week the u.s. and its allies gave them an ultimatum, end the nearly daily attacks or face consequences. what do you make of this and how could this impact the shipping industry? >> it's not just the shipping industry, it's inflation. it's inflationary. anything that's going to increase the cost of goods, the time to get those goods, those goods in some cases would have been available in a week, now they're going to be available in a month, all of those things

make things more expenexpensive. this is a new pressure, a new head wind on this. for shippers making it much more expensive to find staff, this becomes a meaningful dangerous job. >> that's crazy. andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. we'll see you again tomorrow. now to move the unfolding story about defense secretary lloyd austin who had surgery last month after a prostate cancer diagnosis, revealing publicly for the first time the condition that led to his hospitalization, one that he withheld from president biden, key administration officials and the american public. according to a statement from officials at walter reed national military medical center yesterday, austin has been hospitalized for the past week, because of complications from the minimally invasive

procedure, t defense department took three days to inform the whiteou and key defense officials about austin's hospitalization and the backlash has triggered a review by the pentagon about how the head of the military could be away from his duties for so long without senior members of his administration not knowing. conceding during yesterday's briefing, we all recognize that this didn't unfold the way it should have. austin's doctors said his cancer was detected early and his prognosis is excellent. he remain in the hospital yesterday. now as austin begins his road to recovery some house republicans are now looking to impeach the defense secretary. montana representative matt rosendale, saying that austin violated his oath of office time and time again and has

jeopardized the lives of american people. the house homeland security committee will hold an impeachment inquiry for the homeland security mayorkas, the hearing will focus on the secretary's alleged failures at the southern border. in addition to that, at the top of the hour, both the house judiciary and oversight committees will meet to consider recommending the household hunter biden in contempt, he defied a congressional subpoena last month to testify in private even though he did show up to testify in public. let's try and keep up with all of this. let's bring in syal kapur. >> they're impeaching several other officials, at least threatening to. impeachment season in the house, because there's a growing list here. officials they have suggested or threatened they'll impeach.

that includes president joe biden. dhs secretary mayorkas. defense secretary lloyd austin. and the latest one is attorney general merrick and. each of them republicans accuse of abusing their powers or failing in one form or fashion. let's show what ian sams told me, house replicans are treating impeachments like an oprah audience giveaway. they are disregarding the constitution for the sake of cheap, baseless political stunts, instead of focusing on the issues americans care. today's a big day on the impeachment front. the first hearing on the mayorkas impeachment front. house republicans have a treat, he's abused his authorities on mass parole, on the cbp one app. they say this is accountability. the white house is pointing to a washington post op-ed that says

republicans are trying to impeach him for disagreements. about how they use that kind of power. legal experts who have written in the washington post. the claim that he should be impeached is indefensible as a matter of constitutional law, in addition two house republican-led committees recommend criminal charges or at least contempt of congress charges. hunter said he'll only do it publicly, he claims he doesn't trust republicans not to distort his words. if garland doesn't charge hunter biden, the james comer said that would be grounds for impeaching merrick garland. >> okay, so, let's move lloyd austin out of this. because i do think, i'm not sure

impeachment is really -- i do think there's more to come with this story. the white house has put out a statement saying all administration officials need to give notice when they're going to be out of pocket like they needed to do that. >> that was a mistake. >> it might have been very fortunate mistake and it may have pretty tremendous consequences. some are calling for him to step down. he's the defense secretary. removing that case out of the other three, what do you make of the politics of this, the focus on hunter and i say the focus on hunter and the things they are going after him for maybe even some good questions to it, but some of them with no questions to it, with no irony by the way. with none. the former guy two's now running for office and his family.

>> i think if you're the average american who's maybe tuning into the nightly news, and reading facebook, what's coming across your facebook you're saying why is this republican-led congress focusing on impeaching all these officials instead of doing the business for the american people, congress has basically been inactive since the gop has led this congress. they're impeaching a litany of officials for nothing. they're focusing on the president's son who's not the president of the united states. >> what is the issue with hunter, what are they looking at. >> part of the joe biden impeachment inquiry. >> what do they got? they got this hearing, what do they got to get the hearing? >> they're looking for a financial link between hunter biden's foreign deals and his business entanglements and they don't have it yet.

just contempt of congress for refusing to comply. it's up to them and this new threat of maybe impeaching merrick garland, this is a release valve. >> it's a lot to keep up with. again, if you're the average voter starting to tune into the election and start to really think where your vote is going to go, you're looking at republicans in congress why are you not focusing on the issues important to my life, to lower inflation, to lower interest rates, why are you spending so much time impeaching officials trying to do their job? >> they'll have a tiny majority in the house of representatives. it's gotten even smaller with george santos and kevin mccarthy out. it goes to senate where democrats control it. they'll have to win them over.

>> thank you very much. we appreciate you being on the set with us. tonight, it's haley versus desantis in their first head to head debate, possible strategies going into the showdown just five days before the iowa caucuses. we're getting close, you guys. "morning joe" will be right back. ng joe" will be right back oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

39 past the hour, five days before the crucial iowa caucuses, florida governor desantis and former south carolina governor haley will face off tonight in des moines to make their pitch to voters as if best alternative to donald trump. who they don't talk about. who again is refusing to participate. he'll instead hold a competing town hall.

something wrong here. trump meanwhile is returning to his birther conspiracy tactics on social media on monday. trump shared an article from a far-right news website claiming former u.n. ambassador nikki haley is ineligible to be president because her parents were not u.s. citizens at the time of her birth,al was born in south carolina two parents who legally immigrate from india several years earlier. trump the son of scottish migrant, married to an immigrant flies in the face of the 14th amendment which states, quote, all person born or naturalized in the united states, are citizens. jon jon. >> hi, mika. my goodness it's good to know that donald trump is an equal opportunity bigot. it doesn't matter. he can apply his conspiracy

theories to anyone. it radiates the notion that trump has some concerns about nikki haley mostly tied to new hampshire. i got steve kornacki sitting here at the table, not at the board, we can still do some work here, steve, you have a bunch of things to talk about, i'm about to go to iowa tomorrow. all the primaries, caucuses, the iowa caucus this side on the republican side has been more tedious and static. trump is around 50, no one is above 20. in iowa, you get the late surge, no late surge at least for now. tell me what you think about what's going on in iowa, this battle for second place between haley and desantis. >> we have had sort of a period here without a lot of new polling in iowa, that's going to

change in a couple of days, nbc news, the des moines register poll, one of the best regarded in the industry, going to have a final readout in iowa, let's see if there's any movement in that, it's been locked in place, trump with the legal challenges off the campaign trail was going to hurt him. lot of stuff that was supposed to bring him down hasn't brought him down, one thing that has happened here, too, the whole premise of the desantis campaign not that republicans were going to suddenly dislike donald trump they were going to look at him and say we like it but it's time to move on because he can't win. we're seeing polls now where donald trump doing better against joe biden -- ever did against hillary, taking that pragmatic argument away from desantis. that battle for second, for desantis, it's almost a life and death thing, he's gone all-in

for iowa. for haley, a potential slingshot effect, new hampshire it's a very, very different state, we can talk about it, if there's a state right now where it's not that hard to see trump taking a loss, the candidate to do it would be haley, if he gets headlines of iowa, she got second, she kind of put away desantis. >> as you were just pointing out, iowa where trump fell short with ted cruz, we thought that maybe trump, the whole thing was overstated. ran the board in new hampshire. desantis has tried a million things. haley is on the rise in new hampshire, unlike iowa she's got real momentum, a couple of polls have them getting closer, new

hampshire second in iowa you could see a fight up in new hampshire. >> the problem for haley, i could see her winning new hampshire, the problem in context of the national republican party new hampshire is an extreme outlier, the primary out there is so entrenched in the state's culture, you get e nor us now turnout for this primary, not just republicans and democrats, independent voters can vote and they turn out in massive levels. about 50% independent. we've seen that number go higher in the past in fact. that's the group that she does the best with, independent, non-republicans and republicans who are hostile to or skeptical of donald trump. in a demographic mix like new hampshire that could get you a win. if it's 50% independent electorate in new hampshire in

iowa, 15 to 20. it's just a very different state. >> is there a path ahead for desantis? >> you know it's hard to see, so much of the desantis campaign has been premised on something that goes wrong with trump and desantis picks up. i don't know if he would stay in the mix, if haley gets the win in new hampshire, maybe he's there. hard to see given the message he's been putting out there the voters he's been targeting, the endorsements he's gotten there. if he's finishing third in iowa it's hard to see him taking that. >> thinking about new hampshire and haley and donald trump, it seems to me that i guess steve makes a food point, they could be running out the clock to see what happens to him legally, day don't want to step on his toes,

why, because they might become their vice presidential candidate, they don't want to turn off their voters. a state in new hampshire a solid response to his attacks work for nikki haley. would it have an impact in. >> absolutely. if you're nikki haley you want to look at every single opportunity to get more moderate republicans on your side. given the latest immigration attack you'd think she would have responded immediately, at least respond today, but i think looking at the long-term game for nikki haley, if she does get second in iowa, by the way, i think a very strong third place finish, she can get a strong second or possibly win new hampshire, she has real credibility to stay in this race, she has koch brothers funding behind her. lot of tech entrepreneurs who are giving her money.

>> that would ratchet up. >> she could consolidate the base. it gives her staying power, super tuesday states, lot of the primaries coming up. these aren't winner-take-all states. that's how you get your delegates. if she can have real credibility to stay in the race she can have a decent shot here. >> steve, always great to have you on, thank you so much for being on this morning. coming up, academy award winner peter kvalho is our guest. that's next on "morning joe." ex.

he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

. thanks for seeing me. i'm investigating a phone call. >> police -- >> he's going to kill me. >> how can i help? >> they made an allegation, it's an old case that you worked. >> a long time ago, my boyfriend, he stabbed her. >> you are aware that he confessed. >> what if he's innocent? >> that case was investigated fairly. >> what is he hiding? >> let it go. danny's one of the good ones. >> there are things that nobody teaches you. sometimes you have to go the extra mile. there's no shame in that. >> we got our man. >> no, you got a confession. >> we need to cover our backs. >> she's got it in for us. >> i think he wants to fight. i can do that. >> that was part of the trailer for 1 and the questions surrounding an

sometimes with some of the shows don't really -- you know, the detective at the end of the season is the same as he was at the start. we wanted to do a show in which the consequences of the events

really -- you have been in some pretty heralded british television from dr. who to the trick of it. how has it changed, you know, making premium prestige television, how does it feel to be aiming for the kind of audiences that are watching these kind of things and making for an american audience and so on. >> the way technology has changed, our show today becomes available in 130 countries just at the press of a button. in the old days, even with the thick of it, you know, you do the show and it might get sold to australia. might eventually get sold to america, but it would take six months to a year. this is instant. that's a really good thing. also, the shows don't have to succeed this week. you know, people are always saying to me, have you seen this show? have you seen that show? and i catch up. the show may have come out six

months ago and go, wow, that's amazing. >> mika, i know you probably still need to catch one colombo, but are you going to watch this one? >> i am. i watch "slow horses" and love it. this looks good. you can watch the first two episodes of "criminal record" on apple tv plus now. a new episode will be released every wednesday. thank you very much. congratulations on this latest project, and that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. a quick final break.

power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley. if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish.

consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare.