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tonight's special coverage. i'm rachel maddow here at the and messam busy mothership with my colleagues joy, read and lawrence o'donnell, and gems, aki and all remember. great to have you all. here our friends chris hayes and stephanie ruhle will be joining us later. it is going to be fun. we are less than a week out from the republican presidential caucuses in iowa, last i when public debate is underway tonight with oddly, a sort of random selection of two of the remaining five people for presidential candidates taking part in that debate. if you can, right now, name all five remaining republican presidential candidates off the top of your head without looking anything up, congratulations. also -- two of them are debating, tonight nikki haley and ron desantis. also tonight, two miles away from that final hour debate, fox news conducted a live town

hall with the front running republican candidate who of course has refused to participate in any debates at all of this year, but who has been very busy appearing in court rooms in the many, many cases in which she is currently a criminal or civil defendant. the biggest news of all tonight, both in iowa and in the race that, large is that the republican field shrunk tonight from six candidates, 25 with the surprising, but not shocking news that chris christie has dropped out of the race. governor christie is the only republican candidate who has been running his presidential campaign directly and explicitly against the front-runner donald trump, governor christie is now out and his farewell speech tonight in new hampshire was really something that was worth hearing, both for the way he talked about the candidates, and also for the way he described his own decision to get out.

>> amid a political decision eight years ago, when i jumped out of the race in 2016, and i looked at the polls and i decided that donald trump was going to be the nominee and since i had known him for 15 years, that i could make him a better candidate if he won, maybe a better president. i knew his flaws, but i also knew he was going to win the nomination. so i decided that i would get behind him and support him. i let the ambition get ahead and take control of the decision making. and after i figured that out, i promised myself and my wife that i would never, ever do that again. it is clear to me tonight that there isn't a path for me to win the nomination, which is why i'm suspending my campaign

tonight for president of the united states. i'm going to make sure that no way when i naval donald trump to ever be president of the united states again. and, that is more important -- math chris christie getting out of the race for president, tonight he was bluntly critical of republican front runner donald trump in his final campaign speech, but he also seemed to top a particularly deep well of disdain before the other republican candidates, and -- not standing up to trump. >> we have for donald trump becomes the nominee's party mickey -- halle, ron desantis, tim scott, and mike pence, and doug burgum,

and vivek ramaswamy stood on that stage in milwaukee in august, and when asked whether he would support someone who is a convicted felon, to be president of the united states they raised their hands, he had to look at everybody else, first to see if you wanted to raise, hand but they raised their hands. i did not. and will not. and i cannot. i want you to imagine for a second, jefferson and hamilton, and adams, and, washington and franklin, we're sitting here tonight, do you think they could imagine that the country they risked their lives to create would actually re-having a conversation about whether a convicted criminal should be

president of the united states i kept all you how many people asked me why isn't there a lot against that? answers because nobody ever thought that someone would have the audacity to run for president as a criminal and they never thought that any american electorate would actually support it. it is not their fault that they did not put it in the constitution along with 35 years old at a natural born american citizen. they did not think let's throw in here, not a criminal. they felt maybe we would get that part. we are going to show them when -- >> they thought maybe we would get that part. former new jersey governor chris christie and then his presidential campaign in new hampshire tonight. we will be talking with our numbers guru steve kornacki

tonight about what may shift in the polling, and the prospects for the other candidates know that christie is getting out. we will also speak with a very important figure in president joe biden's orbit, federal congressman jim clyburn, mr. south carolina, about what this means for the presidents reelection effort and the state of his campaign. but even as we bid, two republican candidates who are still in the race are debating in des moines. nikki haley and ron desantis are the only two candidates not left in the republican race who also met the threshold for tonight's debate the pulling threshold said you needed to have at least 10% in three national or iowa pulls, that brings it down to just haley and desantis at this point. if chris christie was hoping that the remaining two candidates might trade their fire on donald trump tonight instead of on each other let's just say the way things have

gone tonight he presumably will be disappointed. >> rather than go tell these lies, you can go to desantis lies.com and look at all of the two dozen lies he has told about me, and you can see where fact checkers say is going to, happen exactly why it is wrong. so it will cover the fact he is only mad about the donors, because the donors used to be within, but they are no longer with him now. that is because he is upset about his campaign is exploding. they will see the fact that he has switched his policies multiple times, we will call that out tonight. every time he lies, do not turn this into a drinking game because you will be over served by the end of the night. >> i think the answer is interesting, because you can go to run desantis.com, nikki haley has a, stat if you hold her accountable to her record, first she will say another said that but one good rule of them if she says she never said something that definitely mean she said it then she will say

you are lying, you are lying. that means not only did she say, it but she is on videotape saying it. >> doesn't it just swell your heart with patriotism. anywhere that is that how that is going. but although nikki haley and ron desantis are pulling well enough to make tonight's last iowa debate, near both pulling more than 30 points behind the front runner donald trump in iowa trump of course is refusing to be at all this year, tonight is no exception to that. he has just wrapped up his own competing event, also in des moines, a town hall on the fox news channel. this town hall thing tonight in des moines was a bit even -- for the republican front runner, just a quick trip to iowa for him even though the caucus is only five days away. is basically not been campaigning in iowa. instead he has opted to spend his, time including this, week attending hearings in various legal cases he is embroiled in. he has been attending those proceedings even though he legally does not have to.

while mostly ignoring iowa, in the week before the iowa caucuses. it is a weird year. it is a wield time. but that is where we are as the 2024 contest gets underway. the first american presidential election in which the front runner from one party's nomination is facing multiple criminal indictments than the actual literal meaning of the word, that is unprecedented. and of course, the stakes could not be higher. but here we go. let me -- can i say, in terms of the haley and desantis, we have a lot to talk, about but i was surprised, joy, to see them come out immediately kill kill kill on relenting lee there's obviously a lot of personal antipathy between the two of them and there is no mutual respect or loyal opposition. they clearly hate each other, and from the very first --

were all to destroy each other, neither of them -- >> yes, you, know i have to say, the note that i took on the debate, and on watching them battle each other as you said, and not donald trump, is it felt like this debate was taking place on a different planet from the planet we live on. the planet we live on is the one in which the attorney for the former president of the united states said that he had the legal authority to kill a man using seal team six, to order a hit. to kill a political rival. to me, that is such a show stopping stop the universe, we need to talk about this moment. i was shocked it was not the first question out to be honest, the question is why should i what voters choose you rather than your point which got them fighting each other, and that is such an existential threat to our democracy. it is shocking to me it did not come up.

chris christie brought it up on his own, and because remember, mark said donald trump did tell him. so it is not as if this is theoretical for trump. for the guy they are running against, he did tell his defense secretary, why can't you shoot those protesters? so that is not something theoretical for him. it did not exist in the debate. so everything they talked about felt so irrelevant, so small, it felt like they were nitpicking and each other and none of it seemed important. >> the criticism that the levee that trump is that he added to the deficit and -- over and that is the crisis. >> and the gas tax. >> i think today's biggest news as you start off the show saying, is about governor christie dropping out of the race. his presence at this debate, or lack of presence i should say, his absence was very noticeable. he is the person who would have in the first hour of that debate stood up, raised his

hand politely, maybe, maybe not, and said what are we doing here? we just heard the former defense secretary say, the former president told me he would shoot people in the street. that was absent. instead, a lot of campaigns, this reminded me of a senate or gubernatorial debate a little bit, where the each had the opposition research where you have every vote and every detail of your opponents, and they are just putting it out, nikki haley a little more gracefully than on the santas at each other. i was also thinking joint i talked about this a little, bit if you're at home, you are still trying to get votes from these debates. if your home and, watching you are thinking what are they talking about. >> am i going to the caucus? it will be minus ten. i guess i will go to desantis lies, and that will be how i decide whether or not whether -- >> this is some advice, you

never had to say on lied to candidates, until i guess now, one you are out, there do try to be likable. i mean, that isn't even a factor now in republican bidding for the presidency, maybe they're taking that from trump who by all means, normal human observations is the most unlikable person who has ever asked for a vote. and he got the votes of republicans. so maybe they think this audience wants to see nasty, i'm here to do nasty. >> on the politics, they have to convince people through this debate, in the little time they have left, that there is an alternative to trump they can unify behind. you just showed, rachel, chris christie speaking to, that there can only be one. instead of offering an alternative to trump, they were offering different websites. rhonda center star, calm desantis, lies and that kind of feeling small ball. in watching the trump town hall,

if i can speak about the assignments, i'm sorry. >> man. was all short straws. >> watching that i have bad news and good news, but also more bad news. not bad news is, as joy said, we are seeing the unvarnished under oath in court reality of how you build towards an autocratic regime. whatever you thought the first term was, it is measurably on evidence looking worse if there is a second trump term. we saw that in the courtroom yesterday. new flights of good news from the perspective of pr lies would be even donald trump did not want to stand by what his lawyer said today towards the fox audience. so i just wrote it down pretty early on, it came, up and donald trump claims tonight that his position is political violence is unacceptable.

that is not true to him. not true with the lies that fed, it not sure with the lead after, it which of course serve to protect and care for possibly pardoning seditionist who use political violence and terror in the worst race to the sliver of good news is he still feels the need to lie about that towards the republican electorate on fox which i thought was politically interesting and the further bad news is minor enough form nor the debate as both of you just alluded to it we see any meaningful opposition rebuke to this. there is no legal or day i say -- patriotic difference between whether a domestic terrorist tries to overthrow our government doesn't is the vice president or anyone else and yet what you would expect to hear from them about foreign terrorist you did not hear from the enemy within. >> lawrence, in terms of christie getting out tonight, i feel like he gave a good final speech as he was leaving. and we know the terms in which

he campaigned and -- all the debates before tonight, but he wasn't making a difference in the numbers. it was not making a difference in polling. he did not positive that anybody in any state. what do you think the impact will be of him leaving given the fact that he really was taking on trump in a different way than the other candidates were? >> every impact is marginal in the republican campaign against the trump nomination. but it is going to be a marginal defense in november. so what i was watching tonight, i watch chris christie's entire political career, i have never seen a chris christie speech that i like, i've never seen a chris christie speech that i respected that had anything in it i admired, until tonight. it was virtually the entirety of it that was could. not just good but exactly what republican-leaning voters need to hear, forget about trump voters, they are gone.

they are lost to a cult. they won't be back until there is no trump on the ballot. he is speaking to voters who are not sure of about biden, they are independent, they normally vote republican, but they really don't want to vote for trump. he can hold on to that. he is not voting for donald trump in november. he may never say that he is voting for joe biden and he might not vote for joe biden in new jersey. he might just write into somebody else. that will be very helpful because every republican who doesn't vote for donald trump, holds donald trump down from victory. he has a way of -- that joe biden will never be able to do, that barack folbaum won't be able to, do there won't be any who can speak to republicans the way --

he used the most forceful language that i have ever heard in the space. it is even more forceful and effective than what joe biden has been saying. >> has it been enough to get republicans to vote for him in large, numbers but it could you are saying change the dynamics. >> he depresses anyone who is holding that trump ballot in their hand. he really depresses them. he brings that people like george washing, can how dare you? how dare you bring up george washing ten? the figures we have supported my, or i'm trying to vote for this horrible person. he believes -- holman as many senators as it takes to make sure he is not convicted in the senate on impeachment, he's allowed to kill that many senators. and, that is where christie brought up in a way only he can. >> by the way, i agree with

you. chris christie, there was a little bit of self reflection in the way he spoke as well. you can see there is a little guilt, because he says i know this guy longer than anybody else. i know him. i supported him. i thought i could make him a better president. but he said i thought this was an important line, if you thought for one second that donald trump is going to do anything for you rather than for himself, and he speaks in such a plainspoken regular guy way, that really joe biden does not like that. and he sounds like a regular republican. he is standing and for people like liz cheney who they see as an athlete, for people like adam kinzinger when they throw away, it is harder to throw him away. he is the regular guy that my clothes. >> one thing he said in that that was so important to me personally, because he knows donald trump. he knew donald trump. he knew what donald trump was going to be as president. he still supported him to be -- so, i retain a certain strong

feeling about, that that i do not let go of easily. but he did something. he said, at least one line about why he did that, and it was confessional and he said it was because of him. and if you did not have that line in there, my respect for this who would have cut significantly, but it will still be extremely effective communication. he actually communicated to me what that first decision was about when he knew he was supporting someone who was then unfit to be president. >> we have much more of our special coverage ahead tonight. i should mention, we will be speaking with steve kornacki about this dynamic that we are talking about right here. putting some numbers on, it with chris christie leaving the race, what does that mean in terms of the prospects of the other candidates, indeed the overall attack of this, race that is ahead. plus, co-chair of the -- joining us, life we have a lot to get to tonight. stay with us.

to get to tonight. stay with us

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if they disagree with donald trump. >> anybody who's going to be spent in the next year and a half of their life focusing on keeping themselves out of jail and courtrooms cannot leave this party, or this country, it needs to be said. >> whether or not you believe that a criminal charges are right, or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of the president of the united states. >> i'm in this race because the truth needs to be spoken. he is unfit. this is a guy who just said this past week that he wants to use the department of justice to go after his enemies when he gets in there and the fact of the matter is he's unfit to be president and there is no bigger issue in this race than donald trump. >> that was how he campaigned as of tonight's out of the race

there really was no one else that chris christie and their field this year when he ended his campaign tonight it also means the end of the one real anti trump dynamic that has been playing out life in competitive republican politics. that has not come to an end. does that mean the already pretty clear road to the finish line for donald trump is just that much clearer? does it mean a candidate like nikki haley now has a chance to consolidate a non-trump, if not an anti trump option that could conceivably legitimately can beat for the top spot. what does it mean for the biden campaign and the general election now that the last republican trump antagonist is off the board? joining us now is someone who is deeply important to joe biden, as president, and to the joe biden campaign. veteran south carolina congressman jim clyburn. he's a co-chair of the biden harris campaign. congressman clyburn, on and have you with us tonight, thank

you for taking the time to be with us this evening. >> thank you very much for having me. >> what is your reaction to the decision by governor christie to leave the race and the way he did it? the way that he left the stage? >> well you know, i listen to lawrence earlier, i had the same feelings watching that press conference, or whatever he may have called, it i watched a minute of, it and i found myself a bit remorseful, because i wanted to see him stay in this race. i wanted to see republican voters expressing their choice between the truth, and the consequences of the big lie. and he is getting out takes that away, because tonight i watched -- and here we had two people running against each other,

both of whom were refused to talk about the -- of joe biden. that to me as what is needed in the republican primary, someone willing to stand up to him and draw the contrast between his conduct and the character of americans that who and what we are as a nation. so i don't know what the future holds, but i'm a bit remorseful about chris christie getting out of the race. i hope that those of us on the democratic side will pick up the -- carry this campaign that show biden directed to the american people and do it in such a way that we will offer a clear choice to the american people of what it is like to continue our pursuit of a more perfect union, or allow ourselves to

lapse into, and check towards autocracy. that is what the other side for their -- if you are careful. >> congressman clyburn, it is lawrence o'donnell, when i'm thinking about four years ago tonight, things are not looking good for joe biden in iowa, or in new hampshire, after new hampshire look quite grim. he came to your state, the democratic party was divided, several different possible candidates on the way to that nomination. you pulled off the south carolina victory for joe biden as much as anyone, and then i think to the surprise of many observers, the party unified quite quickly, and unified fully. bernie sanders became a full supporter of the biden harris ticket. do you feel -- and what you feel has happened

to that unity? what is your measure of that unity as of this point tonight? we expect that unity to be in november? >> that unity is still here. i talked occasionally to the other candidates, through coalesce behind joe biden, bernie sanders -- from jump street as we say down to -- with joe biden before he announced reelection. i think that we are still unified. and look, where the problem is, is in the grassroots. we have not done the work that is necessary from a grassroots voters to coalesce around this campaign. all of the facts and figures avail for us to be successful, we have got to do a better job of communicating to the grassroots voter exactly what

joe biden has done. he has been a great president. he has never for the american people in such a way that nobody it seems if you look at the -- that has existed between blacks and whites in this country, for the first time we are closing that gap. if you look at student loan debt, what he has done, 132 billion dollars in debt forgiveness, that nobody talks about. they only talk about -- that he was sued on and could not get done. if you look at health care, obamacare, they announce health and human services this morning, that we now have 28 million people, more people with health insurance than ever in the history of the country. so these are the things that are fundamental to getting

people's lives back on track. covid-19 was a big, big problem for all of us. we finally got someone in the office you recognized that problem. we got some sense of governance. rather than talking about putting bleach in your veins, and pretending that it does not exist, so joe biden has been a good president, he can be a greater president when we get people to understand all of what he has done and to listen to all of the garbage and disinformation that has gone out and look at the facts, and stop listening to all of this tweeting, and stuff that is going on out there, that is not good for the american people. >> congressman jim clyburn, democrat of south carolina, co-chair of the biden harris campaign, and invaluable asset in strategist for that

campaign. we really appreciate you meeting here with us tonight for the special coverage. >> thank you for having me. >> all right, we have steve kornacki joining us to talk about the impact of chris christie leaving the race. the surprise moments where chris christie apparently did not know he is being recorded, and was being recorded just before he jumped out of the race. it lot more to get to. to.

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nights, everything happening all at once well we were still digesting what was going on with chris christie, someone unexpectedly dropping out of the race tonight, and then watching with the last iowa republican debate unfolded in des moines while that was happening, republican front runner donald trump was holding a televised town hall which was his first live not pre-taped, not edited appearance on a news network in more than half a year. now our colleagues -- have been very bad boys, they got caught, convicted, and sentenced to watch that for us. lawrence, how did it all go? >> it was not easy to watch. it was a taste of the donald trump -- donald trump began the fox town hall tonight in iowa, by once

again dealing with a question of, just how much of a dictator would he be? >> this is just a political ploy. trump is a dictator, he wants to be a dictator. it is interesting, you have -- i minutes man. he said essentially you are not going to be a dictator, right? i think he was trying to give me an answer question than you guys, but he mentioned very well, he said i'm going to be a dictator for one day. we are going to do two things. the border, we are going to make it so tight you can't get in unless you come in legally. and we are going to drill baby drill. after that i will not be a dictator. so -- the press picks it up, so i said i'm going to be a dictator for one day, i cut it, they say i'm going to be a dictator, but they cut the rest of the sentence. i'm not going to be a dictator.

>> okay i'm glad we got clear. it doesn't get any better. donald trump claimed he has already decided his vice presidential running mate will, be that was the big news. >> who would be in your cabinet, your administration if you are the nominee which i know you expect to be? who would be in the running for vice president? >> i can tell you that. i know who it is going to be. >> well sorry that is what you get. oh, and every trump supporter out there who thought their retribution -- all the way to november, he really should listen to this. it is ten seconds, but you need to know about retribution. >> i'm not going to have time for retribution. we will make this country so successful, i will not have time for retribution. and remember this, our ultimate retribution's success. >> one other thing you really

want to know, the only policy thing that came, up the only one, we have no idea what he wants the tax rate to be because taxes no longer matter in a republican campaigns but it was one abortion question that no come through, because they did not ask serious questions it was a voter who said she wanted to make sure donald trump was supporting her antiabortion stance without compromise. those are the two words she had at the end of the question. he says that he has the ronald reagan position of the exceptions of life for the mother, rape and incest, and he and his very compromised position in her eyes, where he is playing around with i will find some formula, in six weeks they don't know they are pregnant, is doing all that stuff, and he says you have to win elections. that was his bottom line on that. the interesting thing is, he got a lot of pause for you have to win elections. in other words, he got a lot of applause for abortion compromise in the eyes of the

absolutists. >> fascinating. >> rachel, you mentioned the idea of bad boys here, the theme music for the cops show, and i think what we saw lawrence is absolutely right. donald trump's good cop, and bad cup for these issues. he is vulnerable on these issues. he does know being convicted would be bad for his own life, potential liberty, but also the campaign. if you lose to, points well -- you can't lose more in a rematch. so to me this was a good cop tonight because he spun, and sometimes lie about his agenda, which is as we mention later, part of that is not, popular even on fox. but out on the campaign, trail and in the squad rooms we spent part of the week, he and his lawyers are bad cop. they are talking about murder, assassination, it is not a joke, it is not rhetoric, and it is not by the way, january six protected by the first amendment if direct incitement.

so i think it is interesting to see, his political antenna, as the ability to lie, that is -- he knows how to do that. >> foxes protection of him, brett bexar in hawking earlier, on fox, said he will ask about all of -- it did not do that. and not a word about your lawyer says you can assassinate people. that didn't happen. >> and briefly, no disrespect, much he sounded -- >> no disrespect tonight. >> i'm thinking earned this respect, as he did when he was trying to lie about election results in the last time when vox was coming out there. >> i'm just saying, my observation is not meant disrespectfully, but he sounded not like a journalist, and more like a friendly lawyer or defense lawyer. he said -- much you did not read, that

hand funny enough, it was very -- when he tiptoed to wards the things that are bad for trump, he said you did not mean in the bad. way again, there goes to the fact that the fox by mary does not want to openly admit they are supporting an autocrat. >> well i'm just going to say i think interesting tactics on my border view, fox is not as much the powerful communications megaphone for trump as it once was for the republican party. he can be calm and normie trump on fox, this is just a counter programming tactic. he is real messaging is done through truth social. it is done through all sorts of deep dark crazy social media platforms. it is done in the courtroom. that is what he's betting on. he could be normal -- >> he knows if he is going to do his first live events on fox, in a very long time, the first live tv network has done since the disaster on cnn, he knows

he can only do that if he does not tantalized by the election that will have to be answered for by the entity that is hosting which foxes very acutely aware of in a financial sense. so he can be normal, trump he knows he has to be that. if they do not push him to answer for the things he -- >> and he can be crazy on truth social tomorrow, morning or tonight. >> we can count on it. >> we will bet. >> up next, what it might mean for the republican presidential race for christie to be dropping out, particularly given his word in new hampshire -- help much they might benefit, really looking forward to hear from steve kornacki about this? he will be here next after the break? stay with us? next after the break? stay with us stay with us after advil: let's dive in! but...what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action.

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say that he isn't fit for the president of the united states, -- the president of the united states. >> chris christie, the former governor of new jersey, the chief trump critic and the republican primary field dropping out of the race tonight, before he dropped out tonight, a lot of speculation that if he dropped out, that might most benefit nikki haley. he does appear to be the most viable candidate against trump right, now but steve kornacki knows these things, he has been looking at these numbers, we will talk with him in just a little bit. last thing before we go, just before the prepared remarks

dropped, out it was also caught on a hot mic apparently commenting on hillary's chances of beating trump and winning the nomination. he himself did not seem to think -- here's what he said. >> i mean look -- 59 million on rhonda scientists -- and she is going to get smoked. you and i both know it. she is not up for this. >> she's so 20 points behind trump new hampshire right? >> yes, oh yes, steve kornacki have been looking at the scientifically speaking is nikki haley and factor going to get smoked? >> well i think it depends what state you are talking about. i think a key question when you look ahead at the bigger picture of the republican nomination battle here, in any given state, who makes up the electorate? what is the -- and just show you here a moment most recent poll, a couple weeks ago, the final one this weekend with the des moines register, this is the most recent iowa poll, donald trump

weigh in front. a battle for second between desantis and haley, this explained by dissecting the iowa electorate. this is the group that is powering donald trump more than any other. evangelical christians in the 2016 caucus in iowa, there were almost two thirds of the electorate nearly two out of every three votes cast in those caucuses were by evangelical christians. trump lost by double digits in 2016, he is now running up massive margins with them. you see hillbilly in double digits. -- comparatively speaking, among independent voters, they make up about a fifth of the republican electorate in iowa, and you still see trump ahead, but hilly is closest to him over 20%. we will see an hour pull if there is indications elsewhere she has been getting with independent voters, maybe higher in our final poll. -- in iowa, take a look at, new hampshire a bunch of new polls come out, average them, together this is a very different picture. trump is still in the lead, but

hallie is only 11 points behind on average. you see christie sitting there 12%. a ton of christy's the board has come in new hampshire from independent voters, that is also true with nikki haley. all three recent polls, in new hampshire, -- independent voters and independent voters in new hampshire make up a very bigger portion of the electorate than iowa. than any other state. take a look at, this this is comparing the democratic -- 2016 with the new hampshire republican primary electorate. and i, what we said, nearly two thirds evangelical in new hampshire it is a quarter evangelical independent voters a fifth of the iowa electorate more than 40% in new hampshire and in 2016 democratic republican primaries in him ships sometime not much of a democratic race the fear when it has been one party having a primary the independents tend to be even bigger so we could have something close to 50% independent vote new hampshire.

moderates again, 14% in the hour republican caucuses, double that in new hampshire, this is a demographic, mix it is tailor made for a candidate like nikki haley who's doing very well with independents, doing very well with college educated republicans, suburbanites, the problem for nikki haley is when you get beyond iowa and new hampshire, all the other republican primaries and caucuses out, they're the demographic mix tends to look a lot more like iowa, and a lot less like new hampshire and that includes what could be the next big contest coming out of new hampshire, south carolina month later. the eventual echo share and nikki haley is mostly in south carolina, 72% in 2016. >> steve kornacki, thank you very much, i know you will be seeing later on tonight. much more of our special coverage of the night still ahead. stay with us. night stil ahead. stay with us stay with us dude? dog food in the fridge? it's not dog food. it's freshpet. real meat. real veggies. real weird.

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go welcome back to our special coverage here on msnbc. i'm rachel maddow, we are here with my friend joy reid, and now joined by our colleague stephanie ruhle, chris hayes, and alex wagner. great to have you all here. it is five days out from the republican presidential caucus in iowa. nikki haley and ron desantis of just wrapped up a two hour debate in des moines, which started with them sprinting out of their corners and immediately punching each other at the proverbial face. meanwhile, the prohibitive front runner in the republican race once again skipped the races he has all of them.

donald trump was a couple miles away from the debate stage sharing a town hall on the fox news channel. as i live non taped, none and it will appearance on fox news in a dog's age. actually, his first live in an edited appearance on any news network in more than half a year. all of a sudden folder tonight, just hours after former governor chris christie announced he is dropping out of the, race exiting the field with a blistering speech in new hampshire tonight. a speech in which he lamented the fact that none of the other republican candidates in the race or standing up to donald trump at all. all on just one night. chris hayes, i know you watched the end of the desantis debate -- >> somebody had to do it. >> i'm sorry. >> i drew that strong. >> all of this -- i got the email like okay. that is all right. we will traded for pizza for your staff. >> all right so i watched the second part, it was the fifth maybe even the final official republican debate. >> supposed to be one in

hampshire in a week or so. >> if there's anyone left standing. we will see. it lasted two hours like you said, and as you also, said it was very we are because it mostly featured ron desantis and nikki haley going after each other in this very snippy, at times petty way, mostly on records, governor of and south carolina respectively, their trustworthiness, nikki haley had this repeated implication of a new website called desantis lies, i don't know if you've got to that -- >> in lot of people going to desantis lies -- >> traffic from your computer, -- >> i made an official request. >> that is not on the approved site list. >> so a lot of desantis lies stuff. a couple of actual policy exchanges that were interesting, like they went at each other on security reasoning, retirement age where they are different, views and had what you could call a debate here is why i'm for it here is why i'm against, it a to ukraine like the debate but michael with these, it is

like this is sort of -- you are all 50 points behind this other dude. it is just what are we doing here again they are all like this they are so uncomfortable talking about him. they would sort of try to call him out for not being on the podium, but you could see the kind of burger mortise sudden that is this incredible physical discomfort. then there was this point where the moderators forced him to talk about trump, there was some news made when they finally did. you had nikki haley acknowledging, i did not know if she has done, this she is done in the most backhanded way possible talking about other problems with the voting, people gathering their votes. she acknowledge that donald trump lost the election, and that is what counts. articulate and. i think ballots need to be accounted on election day, you should get results on election day. that election, trump lost it biden won that election. the idea that he is going to

carry this out forever to the point that he is going to continue to say these things to scare the american people are wrong. we have seen a lot of states come together and do more election integrity bills. we need to do more than that. we still have three or four states i'm worried about that don't have that. at the end of the, day i will always defend and fight for the constitution. that is what we should do as americans. i think what happened on january 6th was a terrible day. i think president trump of the answer for it. >> so there is that. after that, one of the moderators asked what i thought was a smart an interesting question about yesterday's d.c. circuit, court of appeals arguments. >> the immunity argument. >> basically, look, you know, they basically said you can go -- assassinate your potential rival and be impeached and convicted, what do you think do you agree to see the constitution differently. >> donald trump is going to lose that appeal, it is going to end up going to trial in

front of a stacked left-wing d.c. jury of all democrats. what are the odds you will get through that? then talking about the validity of the charges. i don't think he gets through that. so what are we going to do as republicans as we nominate, if trump is a, nominee it will be about january 6th, -- to run with that, and i'm not running from my, issues i'm running for your issues. >> sticking the landing with the characteristic, just natural authentic, flair and -- -- no one has made, and that is the first time. it is just on purely descriptive, grounds not normative grounds about who you

think right and, wrong and donald trump, but is this the best thing for, us just putting it out there folks, should our nominee get convicted in federal court by a bunch of felonies in front of the entire nation like maybe they went through the election year. it might not be the best. he threw in the rest of thing about the d.c. court, the d.c. jury, that is gross. but it is at least an argument legible to other republicans that on purely practical grounds, it might not be the best idea to nominate this guy who's about to get -- >> but, this is credit to my friend detroit here, from the very top of the discussion, when we're talking about the president making argument in court, that he should be allowed to assassinate, use the u.s. military to assassinate his political rivals, unless the series of arcane procedures are used thereafter to rein him, in if there's no, happen he should be able to get away with it. how can you avoid saying, and

that would be -- >> so, they said that yes, they said it, but they said it in this way that, i was trying to think what is the right metaphor for this. when you are a kid, you are -- a sex scene comes on, that physical awkwardness, that is literally, that physical awkwardness is how they get what trump -- it is all of a sudden, it gets so tight. everything gets tight. everything is, yesterday checked the box of that is a ludicrous argument. yes they both said that. but you could just see them looking for how they get out of the situation. >> all desantis said was, i would be -- the president should be a servant of the, people not a ruler of the people. that was it. that is his wink wink, trump wants to be a ruler. you are like come on. the only one who clearly has shown they were in a fight tonight, was chris christie. he was there to bow out. chris christie who spent $12

million, and likely improved his legacy, joy and i were just talking about, that when he said, right, trump is unfit to be president. if you are not willing to say, that you are as well, he had more impact than the tens of millions of dollars that rhonda santas and nikki haley will have spent. it will just end up being unforgettable. >> well, forgettable. >> it struck me as in what you're saying is true, i think the problem chris christie had as he never got to actually say those things with trump onstage. i just sometimes think there is another metaverse where chris christie runs the exact same campaign, and speaks really blunt truth. i'm with lawrence, i gained a bit of respect for him in the way he spoke truth to republicans in their own terms about donald trump carrying only about himself, not about them. about the fact that he is unfit and saying i'm saying this is somebody who knows him and supported, him and supported him from my own ambition. i'm telling his unfit.

had he been able to challenge trump on a stage, i wonder what that would have done differently for him. as it is, now i do think he -- and i agree with, you the only person who spoke today that mattered, that did anything important, was chris christie. >> where does he go from here? do we hear from him again? >> i mean he will be doing what liz cheney is doing, maybe and what are republicans doing, he is now an ex republican who is a never trumper, and there is a lot of them -- >> but they could impact republican voters where joe biden is never going to impact. >> i think independents. >> on this program tonight, it was talking about his role, but christie's, rule which, is one of the things trump does very effectively in his -- he forces the issue. your other pro-, champ or anti trump. so you can't be in this liminal

space of i'm a republican and anti trump. you are now a never trumper. kristie is freshly off this. he has the space to try to make an argument to a certain set of voters, for whom for instance -- never trumper and i think it is a tight window. >> most republicans increased christie. >> she is, not but we are still going to, do it who is paying him to do that? when you think about chris christie -- >> the only place chris christie matters is if he goes to new hampshire and says, everybody that thought about supporting me, think about supporting joe biden. honestly, it is not even about the republican party anymore. it is about making sure new hampshire voters who could choose to vote -- vote the. and, both as a sort of gesture in this early primary process, but also in the general, joe biden could win new hampshire. it is incumbent about these republicans not to try and out trump, but to try and throw

their weight behind biden. that is where they could -- >> in terms of what the stakes were tonight, with haley and desantis debating, i felt like just dialytically, rhonda santiff has become a better debater, he has gone from first gear to grinding towards second gear. nikki haley i think has did exactly the way she does, so i think it was slightly better matched in terms of them as candidates. what they are fighting for is the question of whether or not there is going to continue to be both of them in the race. if i understand this gets written by nikki haley in iowa, he is not competitive in new hampshire, is not competitive in a single other state in the country, it is only iowa for him. it looks like nikki haley -- and then it will be over. so did he do enough tonight to salvage his chances of coming in second to lose another day? >> and we just heard steve kornacki say, south carolina is even more evangelical than iowa. if nikki haley can't defeat

trump in south carolina, i feel like what we are all sort of describing tonight's defeat. it is sort of the complete capitulation of the republican party to trump. and chris christie sort of lonely voice of saying, we don't have to do this, it is sort of sounds sad and desperate when you think about it, the republican party is completely capitulated. the mitt romney's level of the building. we have given up and gone home. the mitch mcconnell's do not care enough about the country to stop him or even try. and chris christie is sort of now in that rowboat with liz cheney, adam kinzinger, sort of saying we don't have to be, this but the vast majority of the republican party want to be this. >> this is also a very effective communication. he will be able to look at, people and to give me a break, joe biden is not pushing some far left wing policies, he's just not. when both candidates were asked tonight about the economy,

about high prices, because that is what republicans love to talk about. life is so expensive. yet neither one offered an easy policy solution. nikki haley brought up the gas tax, we will get rid of the gas tax. when dana bash said, great, will be 40 billion dollars that that brings into our federal government to fix our roads, what we do there? and neither of them acknowledged. those two things voters talk about when it comes to the economy, grocery prices, gas prices. gas bases in this country are sub $3 a gallon. in iowa, there are $2.77. why? because joe biden, while his, president we are pumping more oil than any president ever. in the next two years, it will be even more. so watching those two republicans out there with nothing to say about the economy, yet when they have no opponents, when they are just throwing out an ad, or saying life is so expensive, the american, people yes it is. they have no policy solutions.

>> in terms of what is going to happen with political dynamics that were, care why do you, think alex, you're talking about the idea of christy telling or publicans you have permission to vote for joe biden. >> please go do it. if you actually care. >> first of all, he's got unmixing he's going to get smoked or she is not up to it. he can't endorse. her >> there is no one, there is -- >> he also said you can't acknowledge that you are unfit, you can turn around and -- >> if you raise your hand and say i will pardon, trump it is a wrap for you. so the question, is it we and up -- with a field where it is nikki haley effectively versus donald trump? what does that mean for nikki haley's candidacy? she said effectively about the seal team six thing, that is just not common sense. i mean actually -- -- it is not my top hundred answer. >> it is actually common sense to assassinate a rival.

but when does the -- medulla hope that she is going to be a big check on donald trump if it is the two of them effectively. >> no sorry go ahead. >> also i think you know has to happen is some version of if you believe that we are in a fire for democracy, the republicans who have said if chris christie is true to the words of the banner underneath which she marched today, he does need to do something dramatic. we are in the stage of the game now where, need leading anti trump or whatever they are, trump alternatives could not muster up the courage to say, that donald trump has shredded his oath to the constitution. he would be somehow a distraction here for the country was focused on the central questions of democracy in the run up to the election that you know, this left-wing

jury, it will not be a fair trial for donald trump, and all the democrats want is to talk about january 6th and the constitution. well yes, that is the essential work of the presidency, is carrying out duties as outlined in the constitution. yet, that is a distraction to this republican crop of candidates. >> you know what, i think something could be said earlier that could be relevant here. all of this happens as fox news is continuing to -- make trump seem acceptable and normal. >> because they need him back on their air. >> for a very long time. >> so while they are fighting each other for third or second place, on fox donald trump is savvy enough to pretend to be normal. as long as loughlin murdaugh says trump's, normal than regular ordinary republicans out there are going to say, he does not seem scary to me. you all are hysterical. he is just joking. his just funny when he says he is a dictator. it is not a big deal.

they actually actively want the are crusty his selling, or they don't believe, they certainly don't believe us when we say it is autocracy is trying to sell. so as long as the murdochs continue to -- into this normal absolutely typical republican, there is nothing wrong with, it there is no one out there screaming the opposite, if chris christie is not willing to do that, i don't know where he would do, it he is effective at doing it, maybe there is the republicans for biden that gets one, but i don't know who will do that. maybe all he will do is say his truth and go home. >> and if paul ryan is one in the crowd here, just the crowd we are talking about of anti trump republicans that has to decide what they are going to do. one of the things paul ryan's won't have to do is decide what to do with his position at fox. all right, much more of our special coverage ahead. in just a minute, nbc's -- in iowa, joining and by steve kornacki and a lot to still get you. stay with us. o still ge you. stay with us stay with us shipstation saves us so much time

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your vote. nobody is entitled to your vote. he comes in here every now and then, he does his spiel, that he leaves. i've shown up to all 99 counties, because it is important. you are a servant of the people. you are not a ruler over the people. that is the type of president will be. >> what happens on stage is the first phase of political debate. the second phase because when the campaign start trying to convince the world that they are candidate so obviously one. the best place to see that gymnastic exercises in the spin room. joining us now from the spin room of tonight's republican debate in iowa, nbc news correspondent -- tell us about the atmosphere there, how the respective campaigns think things went. a lot of somersault and handsprings, rachel, the gymnastics metaphor in here, yes the desantis campaign says that he won, the haley campaign says she won, and so it goes. we knew the stakes for each of these campaigns, and they came in with distinct strategies. for desantis it was to make

clear he was trying to blunt haley's rise in a place like iowa, but especially ahead of new hampshire where especially after chris christie dropped out today, it is widely assumed that hillary is the beneficiary of that lack of one more candidate in this race. desantis also did a better job of punching up at the front runner. no to be clear, both of these candidates spent more time, as if each one was beating each other was the path of the presidency for them. it completely ignores the fact that trump is the actual front runner, and it's not on that stage. but for desantis, it was more willing to go directly at the former president i do think that is notable when you consider his strategy here at the hawkeye state. frankly this is must win for him he went all in on resources and ground game all of that is true but for nikki haley or her goal here is to continue punching around desantis in hopes that you continue to help is pretty sagging campaign continue to fill in the hawkeye state. her goal is to get a strong

second here they can use into a springboard in new hampshire. i do think the striking thing for me though, especially starting debate night with the news of christus dropping out, you effectively watch the former new jersey governor implored his fellow candidates and republican race to please show that they are willing to take on the front-runner, and almost willing to acknowledge the reality that they have to go through trump if they think they are going anywhere near the oval office. and despite the fact that christy left that the wide open for desantis and haley, you really did not see any of them change the posture of their willingness to go after the former president, and in the form in fashion in which they did. it surely if it-ing him on tone and chaos, desantis hitting him on electability, some of his failures as desantis sees them during covid, but nothing really changed that much. i think as we head into this final stretch in iowa, so much of this debate, massage the factors less people on the stage, guys, was mired in buzzwords, and sort of

truncated attack ads. there were moments where i myself and my eyes glazing over. i wondered what it would be like to be the average viewer and the average voter who did not watch every attack out and was to turn of this campaign, and just one or did anyone get anything out of this more than just the camps they came in thinking they had an alignment with. but i think that might be what the bid stages are these days. you pick the last candidate on the stage, might mean a more substantial of conversation, i don't know we saw that tonight. >> one of the things governor desantis referenced several times, ali, was his grand game, the factory has been an all 99 counties in iowa. clearly he is all in on iowa. he is effectively move his campaign headquarters there. he has moved himself there. he is not in the polling at least, competitive in any other state, which is something nikki haley actually is. she is competitive in new hampshire, that her home state of south carolina. i don't mean to be rude about, this but does it seem clear in

iowa that if nikki haley beats ron desantis in iowa, if she comes in second there instead of him, that ron desantis campaign will and, and won't even make it to new hampshire? >> i can give you a yes or no answer. new candidate will never give us, yes your analysis is exactly right. when i talk to most of my sources, it is why i was so do or die. the way desantis attacked the state of iowa is the way getting people on the ground and having the knock doors and commit to caucus all of that is important but what trump continues to show is that by blocking the traditional he can still find success. i think that's a reminder the national trends seemed to set the tone more in this primary state than the traditional way of campaigning here. i think it forces a lot of us on the strategist side and coverage side to rethink the

way that you have to be successful in iowa, especially given the fact that trump has barely been here, desantis has as you mention, completely planted his flag in the, state and try to make it his own. he has gotten all of the right so-called endorsements that you should be a popular governor in the state of iowa, kim reynolds, one of the leading evangelical voices here, all of that should be amounting to a stronger second place, frankly it should be amounting to a challenge to first, place yet that is not what we are seeing on the ground here. so for nikki haley, just blunting tells dances is enough. she was never think she would win here in iowa. desantis really made that his calling card. he really can still use this as an opportunity to go to new hampshire, stronger and certainly our campaign is feeling more optimistic in my conversations with, him just by the moment where christie sort of eviscerated her. they still feel like he is getting out of the race freed up a couple of key points that they can now turn to their cause in new hampshire. look, she is one of the only

people who have been able to put in several polls in place, which is at least close to striking distance with trump. the sentence does not have that ability to say, that even an iowa yes but so much into it. >> yes, and it is the perceived effort, and the likely outcome. it is a combination of those two things that could potentially be so deadly for him there. nbc's ali vitali in the morning tonight for us. really appreciate that. thank you for being with us. chris, go ahead. >> i just wanted to say something in relation to what ali did, an interesting point about the full -- famously goes to all the counties, if you follow him on social, media very interesting, because he is a conservative republican. he is all about hunter biden's business, but he also has a weird throwback politician, and will be like here i am meeting with the chamber of commerce, here i am with a local addiction treatment center. just at the very classic retail politics. you are my constituent, i'm

representative, you have an issue, let's talk about it. we've seen happen to politics, particularly -- all politics is a national version of the old cliché that all politics is local. increasingly, whether it is the media ecosystem, the nature of polarization, that basic ground of politics of you have some connection with local, areas you put in the swear equity, the, time you shake the, hands you go to the bengals, the churches, you do all, that it means less and less. it is very interesting to see that really on the ground in iowa, where trump doesn't, or you, kidding he is not -- he flies in and out. >> there will be a testament next week with the, caucus we will see trump who is really is not campaigning iowa. >> that is my point. >> it seems like trump is running away with, it we will see, but you don't know until people actually show up in minus ten-degree weather. -- >> i think also, the fall -- more effectively accomplished if you are not a robot that is

programed to campaign. ron desantis is singularly awful at human interaction. and so perhaps -- >> singularly? i'm pretty bad -- >> you really comparing to rhonda scientists? i reject that. >> you are finding ron desantis relate-able at a level of awkwardness, he is one of my favorite ongoing -- [laughter] >> you go to 99 counties and i, why there, you will do better than ron desantis. >> retail politics, and they tell you what their issue is, and you respond to them with policy that he will solve it. donald trump connected with all those people, because he said your grievance in the world, you feel like you are forgotten, i will solve that for you. for four years, the only thing he solved was a massive tax cut

for corporate america. so the issue with doing retail politics, they are not offering any policy solutions. what is the solution? we will get hunter? we will impeach joe biden? we will shut down the government and we want the stock market tank the next 12 months? who does that help? >> to maybe wax a little bit poetic about donald trump is not something i'm prone to doing, he does strike an emotional chord with -- he is really -- will get rid of this media analyst, you i will get rid of your, enemies i will get rid of everything and politics, and i will rule as a strongman. it is a comforting idea. >> the -- he taps into a rage that is a very you know, satisfying to some people. >> in your first term, but then you have to deliver policies, which is potentially what he lost a second. >> the bottom line though is, i don't think that republicans care about policy, because what was the issue that came up, or before any other issue in this debate tonight. the border? it is nowhere near iowa.

people in iowa are not facing a border crisis. there are so obsessed with the idea -- >> there is a lot of meatpacking plants, and migrant workers, and -- >> but, where you see the iteration rhetoric, is in homogenous areas that are seeing a big contemporary influx of migrant labor, migrant worker, and that is why steve king had the residence he did. >> the way they were talking about it tonight, to your, point and they are like what are we going to do now with texas. for texas. but all right, we have somebody standing by. joining us from that side of tonight's republican debate is -- xi's chief politics reporter for the des moines register, very overworked, and she has given us some of her free time tonight. thank you so much for being on the show with us tonight. we really appreciate your time.

happy to be here. so, in terms of iowa voters who have watched this campaign unfold, or had the chance to meet some of these candidates who are thinking about boxing this by the fact it will be really cold on monday, will people have learned anything new from tonight's debate? or was this essentially a continuation of the things they have already been seeing? is it a departure or continuation? well i think it is both to a degree. if you talk to iowan republicans, they're still making up their minds, they are still trying to decide right now. a lot of iowa republicans like the rest of americans, they took a break from news consumption, they went home and enjoyed the holidays. they're coming back in and just now starting to really engage and decide how they will caucus on caucus night. so if you are just tuning into the debate, into the campaign in a meaningful way, this debate could have been really helpful. it was substantiated, it was --

a got some more, issues we got one desantis in the clear literature there bottom of those issues that matter to our republicans. so in that sense, if you're just tuning in, now if you are just now trying to decide how you are going to be caucusing, this is meaningful. i was texting with republican turned iowa throughout a debate, to see how they were perceiving, it and i found really two different tracks. people who said it was substantive, it was meaningful, and others who said this is more of the same -- there is nothing, there is no big moment tonight that really shifted people from descendants towards haley, or vice versa. so in a race that has really been marked by this two-person fight for second place, i don't know how much of the impact this is going to have. >> rihanna, one of the other stories we have been following, tonight which was i think a surprise, but not a shark, was

the announcement by chris christie that he was leaving the race. i know he wasn't pulling at significant numbers in iowa, but it is big news he has dropped out, he dropped out was slash giving an impassioned speech calling on his fellow republicans to break more divisive lee with donald trump, do you think from the republican iowa voters who are talking with the night, you think christy leaving or any of the things he is doing on his way of the stage will have any impact in your state? >> well we looked at our past pulling. the des moines register, nbc news, our poll that came out december, we asked our pollster to realign where the candidates would be. what the result would be with chris christie out of the race. we asked people who the second choice for president's. so when you realign those votes to the second truth candidate, it really doesn't change the overall shape of the race here in iowa. nikki haley gains the, point rhonda sanders and donald trump stay the same.

so it doesn't do much in terms of iowa caucuses. again, chris christie hasn't set foot in iowa throughout the course of his campaign. what this really does is change the state of the race to new hampshire. i do think i what republicans will be looking to new hampshire to see which candidate has a path forward. they want to pick someone who has a chance to actually winning the nomination. >> rihanna, chief politics reporter for the des moines register, as we said, overworked right, now overtaxed, an eight national resource that we are need. thank you for spending some time with us tonight. good luck over these next five days. >> thank you. >> where steve kornacki is back with, us at the big board when you come, back stay with us. when you come, back stay with us. i'm jonathan lawson, here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget

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perspective, under her administration, he would have seen us getting less cost of living adjustments will your tax dollars are going to pay the pensions of ukrainian bureaucrats. >> that is not true. that is a lie. >> that is wrong have supported all that money going over there. >> that is such a lie, ron. that is such a -- yes the, republican race in iowa seems to be a little bit -- or a just how to manage and how it is going to change over the next five days. you never know. iowa and iowa voters have surprised us before. do not believe, me that is why we have nbc's steve kornacki who knows these things. steve, tell us how we are going

to be surprised by, iowa or at least what we were surprised in the past? >> we finally took a look back at this one in history of republican caucuses in iowa, which had come up with the three biggest caucus night surprises, and you can judge these and compare them to what might constitute a surprise on monday, and see whether any or 11th. here is what we came up with. the first, you go back to 1980, here's senator bob dole at the time, he was the winner of the 1980 caucus in iowa, is a famous message to iowans and fellow midwest, i'm one of you. in fact, the margin dole won in 1988 is the largest in modern caucus history. so why was this a surprise, it is because the second place candidate and i was supposed to be the sitting vice president of the united states, george bush senior. instead, the votes came in, it was somebody else. it was -- the drama is the fading as they go to click it. i can't believe it.

let's try this one more time. it was -- >> oh man. >> hey. there it is. it was the pat robertson. in the 1988 caucus, pat robertson beat the sitting vice president, got second, place this was a shockingly high number for robertson. no one had expected, it no one had predicted it. what it represented was the christian wright had started becoming a political force in the late 70s, growing in the 80s. robertson believed he could -- he brought on all sorts of voters who had never participated in the caucus before. this marks the arrival of evangelical christians as a force in the iowa caucus, we talked about earlier, a force that has only grown. two thirds of the iowa electorate in 2016, the republican caucus was evangelical, this was the origin story. pat robertson in 1888. another big surprise was 1980, one would reagan of course was a big year for, reagan he became the president of the united states, here is when it is a little, you can see a parallel to now, you can decide

if it applies. there was a final debate right before the caucus in 1980 in iowa, ronald reagan was the big front runner nationally, it was the front-runner, and he skipped the debate. the subject of him skipping that big him up in the debate, all the candidates -- was taking iowa voters for granted, and lo and behold in the caucuses, reagan lost. this was a major upset. george h. w. bush at the time was the former u.n. ambassador, if you want to see other parallels to current politics, george h. w. bush, and ronald, reagan he said he had big momentum coming out of, iowa went into new hampshire, and it up losing to reagan there. it became a fight for a few months. probably the only reason bush ever become vice president was upset win over reagan in 1980 that made him the main alternative to ronald reagan. in 2012, there is rick santorum. rick santorum when the iowa caucuses, although an interesting story because it took him a few weeks, it took the republican party a few weeks to actually say to

santorum and what the difference between romney and santorum. but this was a major surprise, because santorum had been polling in single digits until about a week before caucus day. he searched really in the final five or six days of the caucuses, and just pulled out a surprise victory. the interesting thing, as romney had been favored to win iowa, we have seen all year before the caucus different candidates rick perry for, while newt, cambridge and -- risen up briefly, taking the lead in polling, only to fall back. we have seen before this, there was an appetite among republicans for a romney alternative. and you just happen to be it, seems rick santorum's turn to try on that roll right as the caucuses arrived. so he rosa, he won the caucuses, he did not do much in new hampshire, than gingrich other, moment santorum had another moment leana primaries. no one was able to win together and obviously not go -- but there is a candidate who is

in single digits doing one week before caucus day who had an up winning. there is probably the biggest lead surprise we have seen in the caucuses. >> briefly, steve, i'm not supposed to be doing, this i'm supposed to go to commercial, but after asked. 2020, democrats really screwed up the our caucus, structurally, they just did not work. 2012 those guys you got up there on the screen right, now i remember, that it was romney is the, winner know rick santorum is the, one run pause going to get other delegates, such a mess. there might be a close race between nikki haley and ron desantis in iowa. do you have faith that iowa republicans know how to run their cox's this year. >> that is an important point when you make about cox's, i was the biggest, one there are other states that do this. keep in mind he are run by state political parties. they said the, rules they conduct them, they tabulate the results. these are not run by secretaries of state, official state agencies. so you, know yes they made changes. the iowa republican party has

expressed confidence they will be able to tabulate these results, get an accurate fair and full count out. but really, as you, say you won't know until monday night. we will see. maybe as in the case in 2012, it is about ten days later i think that came out and said actually it seems -- >> exactly. >> oh yeah. that is all right. they give -- us much more on our special coverage, just like -- five days out from the iowa caucuses, did you guys know this? how do you think we stand? not, magic at a science.

>> last is hard, desantis lies .com, we have never raised -- i have never raced -- can tell you right now -- >> governor desantis, she has the floor. >> less is hard, big smile, no you with a big smile, bliss's heart. and bless in the kayleigh sales pitch for her new website tonight. she was thorough about that. >> you can go to desantis lies .com. go to decentralize.com, you can find out for yourself. >> first of all, losses, hard desantis lies dot com. go to desantis lies.com. i said you can't just build a wall. desantis lies dot com. go to decentralize.com. desantis lies. it is on there. >> it could be a pitch to be

president, it could also be that we are reading the comments section of a qvc youtube clip. let everybody start on the tape team tonight for finding all the time is nikki haley said desantis lies dot com. we think about 11 times at least, we may have missed one. chris christie has dropped out of the, race nikki haley and ron desantis have proverbial bleak punched each other in the face for two mystifying straight hours in the final iowa debate. donald trump has been back on to fox news live for the first time in months and months. you guys, it is on. it is happening. our msnbc special coverage continues. stay with us tonight. ♪oh what a good time we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren

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i am symone sanders-townsend, joined by my co-host alicia menendez, and michael steele. the clock just struck midnight a couple hours ago. three republican candidates made their case for made their case fo republican candidates made their case why they should be the republican presidential nominee in the election. they sparred in debate i meanwhile the frontun