good evening everyone. i am symone sanders-townsend, joined by my co-host alicia menendez, and michael steele. the clock just struck midnight a couple hours ago. three republican candidates made their case for made their case fo republican candidates made their case why they should be the republican presidential nominee in the election. they sparred in debate i meanwhile the front-runner of

the republican party, former president trump took a break from courtum appearances to tak questions in a fox news town hall. in this n town hall he said absolutely nothing new. it was the same lies, same talking points, and essentially a rally with questions. let's be very clear, folks, the only normal aspect of tonight's debate was the presence of podiums. the candidates took the stage just after vocal trump critic, former new jersey governor chris christie suspended his campaign refusing to endorse any of his former opponents. in a normal world a re-election losing 91 felony counts facic, twice impeached front-runner who didn't show up to debate at anything would be a prime candidate -- prime target for any candidate hoping to take the lead, right? that's in normal times. but desantis and haley declined to focus on the elephant not in the room. instead they saved their most

ruthless barbs for each other. >> we need to stand up for the people and not bow down to woke corporations, and we know nikki haley will cave to the woke mob every single type. >> you're invisible in new hampshire, invisible in south carolina. you're in ninety-fifth place. you've got $150 and you've gone down in the polls in iowa. why do you think we should let you manage anything in w this country? >> you can't take the united nations out of the ambassador. >> this debate was the last big chance for the candidates in the race to move the needle in iowa because we're just n days away from the iowa caucuses on monday. the first in the nation nominating t contest is more th 300 days, 588 campaign events and $100 million in the making.

did iowans and voters walk away or ruffled feathers on display in the hawk eye state? >> i watched thinking if i were an iowa voter still persuadable is there something tonight that could persuade me? if i were a voter thinking about staying home would i come out? because this debate ignored the core dynamic which is the fact that donald trump is trouncing both these folks. they clearly showed up thinking i've got to destroy this single opponent but to what end? >> well, the end was the point, the end of this campaign. >> because they both want it to be over. >> bots they both want it to be over at this point. this trudge through iowa has been painful for everyone.

why? because donald trump at every turn punked them from the very beginning and throughout. the disrespect he showed them by not showing up and just the barbs he would throw in and out. so they were shadow boxing the entire time. you got to the point it was just the two of them on the stage. what did we see? literally, a mealy-mouthed politician in the first 30 seconds of the opening salvo desantis comes out swinging. did it establish a narrative for him, take thatra moment to addrs iowans in the country? came out swinging. and that's because at this point he knows he's in such a desperate situation because in a weird way trump has forced both of them into this box they find themselves. and they're trying to punch themselves out of it, and they

can't. as a chairman at a certain point i would have pulled my candidate off that stage and say, dude, you've got to rethink what you're doing here because this is not --in to your point, alic, this is not how you're going to make that closing argument. you've got to make that closing argument five days out from when voters vote. and they wasted a lot of time. >> arguing with each other. >> i tweeted about this when it was 20ed minutes in. >> two things. one, to ron desantis' credit, words i didn't think i would say tonight he was better in this debate than other debates. the bar washa on the ground whe know right. >> wow, you really think so? >> i think he was better than the last couple of debates. he seemedou to be a little bit more comfortable. the debate prep was working. that being said, i don't think either candidate -- nothing

happened in this debate and the town hall with donald trump that is going to fundamentally move the needle. in amo week out from iowa you'r looking for a big shift, the proverbial bomb if you will, show up strong. and i don't think either one of them did. they show up small, and i did not see a president on that debate stage. >> i agree. that is the key thing because in the last three debates, well, actually all the prior debates nikki haley to me came off as the most presidential. nicky hilly to her credit she tried today come out with this generational shift argument she wanted to make,on and desantis kept pulling her back, and pulling her back to the point she just became so exasperated with him. and that's the bite she had with her.

that was like a mommy chastising her child. >> the three of us were back together earlier today when news broke when chris christie was going to drop out of the campaign. we questioned the timing of his dropping out, his choice to do that in advance of the debate. would that potentially force the issue forward of his court argument that unless you're willing to say donald trump is unfit to be president, then you yourself are unfit to be president. that dynamic didn't really play out. >> they went after each other instead of goingft after trump. i will say on the questions of -- i know we're going to play some clips in a little while but on the question of the constitution and the government and january 6th i did hear -- i mean we got as close up to the line they could possibly go

without saying anything about january 6th. she thinks donald trump is going to have to answer for what he said onns january 6th. ronn desantis said he believesn the constitution, and the constitution as george washington said. i will note ron desantis has unceremoniously removed two duly elected states attorneys in florida who have sued him in court to get their jobs back. again, i don't know how that squares with the constitution. so i guess i will also note a lot of the conversation on the stage we often talk about how trumpism and the modern day republican apparatus isn't really about't policy. trumpism isn't about policy at all. the policies do matter and what he has said matters. there was a town hall where he said a lot of things. we heard policy on the debate

stage and i think in that town hall from voters. >> but the answers weren't policy a oriented answers. >> correct, they were not. >> i'll let you finish your point, but i just wanted to put a pin on that. policy oriented answers and that's the problem. >> it makes sense to me. let's bring in someone who was on the ground there at the debate. i want to bring in our colleague ali vitali. what do you think? closing argument, maybe, maybe not. and then we heard a lot of policy questions, but to the chairman's point, not a lot of policy answers happened except social security. >> exyeah, well, first of all wn michael steele said this is a trudge through iowa, i felt that in my soul, you guys, because it has truly felt that way. and i think that we've all covered these presidential cycles before. you think maybe once you get to

a stage where it's not eight people talking to each other, you sort of hope for a more substantive discussion, maybe you'll hit a few policy points. instead this was an all-out slugfest. the thing i noticed immediately right off the bat you had desantis going off with mealy-mouth and haley pointing out the way he's scondered tens of millions in his presidential bid only to end up second or third in the state that he laid his hopes on, which is iowa. the attacks were done almost in buzz words because all these attack ads have already been on the air waves in places like iowa, in places like new hampshire. we've heard these criticisms between the candidates on the debate stage before. there were moments there were so many disparate attack lines, it was hard to follow along. the fact you didn't have a commercial break for first 50

minutes for that debate, i thint it was jarring for a voter who might want to show up and hear a plan what a haley or desantis administration might look like. i think there were points of that. for those of us who covered 2020 and the democratic primary, the idea you could only have one glancing question and a brief question about health care policy isf completely shocking because we went through debates in 2020 with the democrats that were 30he minutes of deep polic debates on the role of health care and how government should play aca role in that. this is just a completely different primary, one that reallyne functions off of natiol trends, not necessarily the time the candidates spent on the ground in iowa, and these debate stages are so incomplete in the way they are structured simply because trump has taken himself out of it, and none of the other candidates have seemed to adjust their debate stage strategy to account for thafact they're not actually going against each other. they're all fighting a faptm who's not on the stage. >> it would seem to me the biggest news out of this week

the fact you've had an attorney for the former president of the united states making the argument that a president should be shielded from prosecution even for doing something like attempting to assassinate a political enemy simply because he was the president of the united states. i don't understand how you don't reckon with that on this debate stage. so to your point about that phantom, it's not just speaking about donald trump because he is the front-runner. it's not just speaking about donald trump because he himself is on the debate stage, it's speaking about donald trump because his very candidacy challenges our democracy and our rule of law. and it would seem impossible to vy for the presidency of the united states without reckoning with that core reality. >> and i thinkre that's the poi chris christie wass making because the four of us experienced his speech and his dropout together this afternoon. it was clearge that dropout cam at that point so he could if not be on the stage, at least steer

the conversation in the way he attempted his entire candidacy. i actually thought it was a great way to try to get these candidates to engage on the issue of trump without overtly engaging on trump himself. this idea that presidents should be immune from everything, immune from being able to be pressed or tried on anything they did while acting as president, i thought it was a good way to try to get to a place with these candidates maybe they hadn't considered goingn' before. because you're right, these candidates have a tendency to say the media only wants to watch them attack thea former president. and that's thought ingoal of these questionsa you guys well know. the goal is to think about how these canned dates conceptualize the idea of being president, how would they act in the oval office. thankfully the way trump tried to bend and thankfully not break the norms and traditions of what it means to be an american president, all these things are key discussions now in the 2024 election. if they want to be the successor

to trump in the next republican nominee, i think those are valid answers. and i was stunned watching nikki haley say the obvious part, which is of course pre-s shouldn't be able to do whatever they want as president and face any consequence on that but she immediately pivoted that line of thinking into ron desantis lying. there are still such an uncomfortability in talking about the former president among these folks whose have to go through him if they want to get to the nomination. i think the other thing that i found so striking is that even though simone is right to point out the ways these candidates werewa willing to be somewhat critical of donald trump whether it was january 6th, election denialism or what haveon you, ty didn't go further on this stage than they'd ever gone throughout this primary. haley will often say on the stump or at least when she this brought up to her, she thinks it was a terrible on january 6th and donald trump calls it a

beautiful day. there is sort of an interesting dynamic here i've bip noticing in talking to haley voters. i met people who voted for trump twice, hit their breaking point on january 6th and now turning towards haley. but she's not been necessarily a leading beacon speaking out about january 6th and the former president's role on it. i'm interested in hearing if the voters feel sold shorter or they're hearing enough on this. certainly the criticism didn't go further than we've heard before. >> ali, i want to pick up on the point about the voters. a lot of the focus is on the people on the fstage, but one the things party officials and operatives are focused on while the thing is going on the stage is how the audience, not those in the room but outside the room is picking up what's happening, and how this is moving particularly this close to when they get to make that choice. what have you heard in the days leading up to tonight, and what do you anticipate from your

experience going over the next five days to your point about what may or may not move these votersno based on what they saw tonight? >> reporter: i think that you have to consider iowa as a place that is still trump country. i mean nikki haley is not coming in here and saying she's going to beat trump. not even desantis is really saying that anymore, though he did put all his eggs in the iowa basket, so to speak. with iowa voters, though, they want to be spoken to. the ones that i met still undecided are actively listening to candidates coming out to events. this is trump country. there's an immovable block of people still going to come out and caucus for the former president.or caucuses, okay, are things that award enthusiasm and confidence and energy behind the president because it requires sitting in gyms or other large spaces and other members of your community to cajole and caucus and all be together for several hours. at the same time, i do think there's an opening for someone

obviously not to win here but to show trump is not inevitable by using it as a springboard into the next state. that's the strategy the haley campaign isth by and employing r themselves. because trump is not on the stage i do think, "a," voters miss"a out on him defending his record. politically speaking i think it looks like a savvy decision he doesn't have to sit here and get ganged up on by the rest of the field hatch he's been able to float above it and look like quite frankly he is above the fray even as they tackled each other like they did tonight. >> thank you. stay warmto in iowa and bring u any news you have. you know, donald trump, the elephant, not in the room. i want to play a little what ron desantis to say about donald trump's absence on the debate stage tonight. >> every candidate needs to be

on i've shown up because it's important. you're a servant of the people, you're not a ruler over the people. that's the type of president -- >> while ron desantis and nikki haley were in the battle the front runner donald trump was less than 2 miles away taking questions on everything from abortion to involvement in wars overseas. folks, stay with us because we're going to break down the highs, the lows, the jaw dropping moments, the crazy from donald trump's town hall. >> i think he was the right president at the right time. i agree with a lot of his policies, but his way is not my way. i don't have vengeance, i don't have vendettas. for me it's about no drama, no wining, and getting results and getting them done. so i don't think president trump is the right president to go forward. i think it's time for ago new generational leader. w generational leader. to duckduckgo on all your devie

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this is just a political ploy. trump is dictator, he wants to be a dictator. it's interesting i did a show, sean hannity. did you ever hear of him? he's a very nice man. and he said essentially you're not going to be a dictator, are you? tell me. i think he was trying to give me a nicer question than you guys. he meant it very well. i said i'm going to be a dictator for one day. we're going to do two things, the border. we're going to make it so tight you can't get in unless you come in legally. and then the other is energy. we're going to drill baby drill. after that i'm not going to be a dictator. after that i'm not going to be a dictator. and the prez picks it up. so i said i'm going to be a dictator for one day. they cut it. i'm going to be a dictator, but they cut the rest of the sentence. no, no. i am not going to be a dictator.

>> and there you have it. that is donald trump at this town hall tonight contradicting himself in realtime as he tries to say he's not going to be a dictator and then in the same breath admitting in fact he will be a dictator if elected again but just for one day. trump continued to lie throughout the town hall carrying forward his typical play book. i tried to sit there and make a list of all the things we needed to fact check. at some point the team got me yelling out the door he said he had the greatest economy of u.s. history. well, fact check it but you know that's not true. it almost becomes too big a task, so i want to steak on this point about him saying i will, i won't be a dictator. because it's not consolidated on that exchange. he you also have him saying he wants to use the power of the justice department. >> here's the thing to all the maga heads out there.

if when you hear someone say -- if joe biden said, you know, my second term i want to be dictator, what is your reaction to that? because the question i have for trump is do you know what the word dictator means? >> i think he's clear. >> and if you do, why are you using it unless that's what you want to be? there has not been in the history of the world let alone the united states anyone who's assumed power and just said, okay, i just want it for a day, i'm just going to run everything in the universe for a day -- >> and then i'll be satiated. >> and then i'll be satiated and give you the power back. the reality is donald trump acting like this little boy saying they're saying all these nasty things about me and none of it's true, he's full of crap. and the fact fox sat there and did not double down, triple down and make him make the point to the country of what his real

intent is, is just bad journalism. but it's worse for those who actually give license to that in the broader public by thinking that somehow, alicia, and simone, that in march of 2025 donald trump after the state having success at shutting down the border except for those who come in legally, and we know that's not going to happen, right? because even if you come in legally, he's going to find a reason to keep you out. and all the other things he says he wants to do that he's just going to now go, well, i'm done with that and i'll give power back to the other two branches of government. i'll return the power back to the states to decide. it's not happening. so i think that -- that moment in that conversation to me was chilling because you saw the acquiescence of a pliable,

complacent press and the ambition of a very dangerous man. >> a dangerous man. there was another exchange between him and bret baer where he says you say a lot of at your rallies. i'm paraphrasing here. you say a lot at your rallies, how much of your second term would be a retribution or lookingward? and donald trump sits there with a calm with a straight face and says i won't have much time for retribution and he talks about president xi taking in $400 million and says i won't have much time for retribution. no retribution, there will be success. it is peak gaslighting and it is dangerous. i was struck by sometimes donald trump does these things with bravado. like he's yelling, he's got incoherent sentences -- >> word salad. >> yeah, word salad. but sitting in that town hall he

looked quote-unquote normal. and there's nothing normal about this election, nothing normal what donald trump said. oftentimes because candidates and people specifically say these insane crazy things but in a tone that's just like this and i'm speaking normally and, yes, i will be a dictator on day one. and there will be no retribution though you heard me say it this many times on camera, i think people have become numb to it. and we cannot excuse that. i was very concerned by this -- by many parts of the town hall. this was the part that really just struck me viscerally because there are people hearing him say this that still are going to go out there and support him. there are lots of people going to caucus for donald trump on monday. >> i also think you're generous calling it a town hall because it essentially operated like a pep rally for him. >> a pep rally with questions from the crowd. >> who are you supporting, donald trump, and he'd say thank you so much. there weren't a lot of hard-hitting questions and there certainly wuptd a reckoning

around the way what we often talk about his many legal troubles and not just how that impacts him as a candidate but how that affects whether or not voters should consider him for a second term. >> yeah, i think that's an interesting piece in all of this is how should voters consider him for a another term? and so the question becomes -- and i'll put it back to you. if you're framing this question as a journalist, right, and you're covering the story, how do you frame it? how do you frame what you saw? >> lies. lies and gaslighting. >> so when you frame it as lies and i'm out here sort of as ali vitali mentioned in the earlier conversation, voters just starting to turn in and this may be the first time they're looking at this, et cetera, set et cetera, what do they hear over your framing of lies? that's always that space for us those of us in the democracy space, in journalism, in

politics try to correct trumpism and trump, you've always got that lagging indicator with voters. they're coming in too late, we're trying to frame it realtime all the time, and that's the spot he lives in. that's the spot he lives in between where he just boom, boom, boom, like fireworks going off. and the noise is so loud and the colors are so bright and beautiful, and people's senses are stunned about what he's actually saying he wants to do to democracy. >> i will say the answer to your question is far too complex, right? >> for 12:30. >> but i will say an entire conversation where you never mention the violent insurrection that occurred on january 6th is not a service to democracy, it is not a service to -- all right, team biden is already commenting and posting about tonight's on-air antics so how is the president feeling about his possible competitors? we're checking in with a cochair of the biden-harris campaign.

that's next. >> who would be in your cabinet, in your administration if you are the nominee, which i know you expect to be. who would be in the running for the vice president? >> well, i can't tell you that really. i mean i know who it's going to be. really i mean i know who it's going to be

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nikki haley, ron desantis, and donald trump may have been under the spotlights tonight but don't think for a minute president biden and his campaign team merely sat back and watched the chaos unfold of course with popcorn. the president and his surrogates spent the evening call out the republican lies in the hawk eye state. in a statement the biden-harris 2024 communications director michael tyler asserted, quote, tonight trump doubled down and played his greatest hits bragging about overturning roe v. wade, rooting for the economy to crash, and pledging to rule as a dictator on his very first day in office if he's able to return to power. joining me now is cochair of biden's 2024 re-election campaign, former white house aide and congressman cedric richmond. cedric, such a real pleasure to have you. what's your -- when you're watching this unfold, are you looking at this from an earth

one perspective or earth two perspective because the back and forth between trump and what we saw playing out between nikki haley and ron desantis, democrats tonight have to look at this going into the start of the campaign going, okay, now we have a better sense of what we're dealing with. a guy who wants to be a dictator and two people who can't seem to take the guy who wants to be a dictator out. >> well, michael, you're absolutely right. but let me say even more than that, we have a guy who starts off saying he wants to be a dictator, he doubles down on it, he talked about overturning roe, and then he also talks about rooting for the economy to crash because he doesn't want to be a president like herbert hoover which he was already a president like herbert hoover because he left office with losing jobs as opposed to creating jobs. then if you turn the channel and

look at haley and desantis, they're trying to out-trump each other and they both forget trump is still in the race. and so what we see is that all the republican candidates are doubling down on the extreme agenda, whether it is to put medicare, social security, and medicaid at risk, whether it is to continue to go back to failed policies of catering to corporations in the top 1%. so right now is the beginning of a campaign where we get to draw contrast, but at the same time we have to remind voters what we promised, what we did, our vision for the future, and we have to go out and communicate that to the american people, and that's from people who are watching shows like this and people who are at home busting their tails to put food on the table and provide for their families. >> congressman, it's simone. i hope the people who are busting their tails to provide food for their families also

tuned in and are watching us tonight. i would like to play for you and the audience what donald trump actually said about roe and that exchange with him and the voter and talk on the other side. >> in this campaign you've also blamed pro-lifers for some of the gop losses around the country, and you've called heartbeat laws like iowa's terrible. so i'd just some clarity on this because it's such an important question to me. i'd like for you to reassure me that you can protect all life, every person's right to life without compromise. >> so, that's a great question and i appreciate it, too. you wouldn't be asking that question even talking about the issue because for 54 years they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it. and i'm proud to have done it. now, i happen to be for the exceptions like ronald reagan with the life of the mother, rape, incest. i just have to be there, i feel.

i think probably 78% or so who's ronald reagan, he was for it, i was for it. but i will say this, you have to win elections otherwise you're going to have to be back where you were, and you can't let that ever happen again. you've got to win elections. >> congressman, can we expect that the president is going to take on donald trump directly on this particular point? in one breath he brags about overturning roe v. wade but in another breath talks about exceptions and saying you have to win elections, and i would note exceptions did not help in texas. >> this is absolutely the president will take him on, directly head on. and when the president talks about freedoms, that's one of those freedoms to control your own body and make your own decisions, that's one of the freedoms the president talks about. the other thing i'll remind you about donald trump and i'll go back to my days in congress, i

think when i was there we counted something around 17,500 lies that he told. and i think if you go on this issue, he's all over the place. but we're going to remind people what's at stake. look, he won in 2016. in 2020 we beat him and took the white house. in 2022 they thought it would be a red wave and it wasn't. we won that election, and we did it by reminding people who he is and what we stand for as democrats. and so as this campaign is going, we have a lot of work to do, but we have to time to do it, and we're going to continue to talk about the fact joe biden and kamala harris, they wake up every day trying to figure out how to help working familiesch they wake up every day trying to help americans. donald trump wakes up every day and figures out what's in it for him and how to help himself. it's all about i, and i think

the american people have rejected that and they're going to do it again. >> thank you for staying up late with us. we've already seen the president begin to prosecute this case about democracy, the stakes of this election. in addition, as you've suggested multiple times a lot of this will come down to the economy, the perception voters have of the economy. trump tried rewrite the narrative of the conversation, not just comparing apples to oranges but comparing apples to kittens, talking about gas prices during the administration noting a low gas price when we're in the middle of a pandemic giving no context to the fact gas prices have multiple global stress factors, talk about inflation. as you well know rooting that a recession takes place before he's president. how do create that economic contrast between this administration and the previous administration when he's not operating from a unified set of facts? >> well, one, he doesn't operate from facts. he lies. and even in some of the comments

he just said, hoir not true. we'll remind people the day we took office 50% of schools were closed in this country. we had thousands of americans dying every day, and we went in, we put our head down, and we got the job done. if we want to talk about the economy, the president has created over 14 million jobs. he's brought manufacturing back to america. he has strengthened the supply chain. if you look at consumer confidence now and the unemployment rate, both are headed in the right direction. and so we're going to continue to harp on those numbers. for example, the racial wealth gap is the closest it's ever been. we increased black wealth by 60%. we still have a long way to go, but the numbers show we wake up every day working on those kitchen table issues, and we're going to remind people of the progress we made and the stumbling blocks in the way. if you look at the 3.6 million

people we relieved from student debt, we still have millions more to go. the court blocked it. the president found creative ways to help students anyway. and so we're just going to continue to keep our head down. the president and the vice president will do the policies. people like me will continue to go on tv, and the campaign will continue to go in neighborhoods and other places to talk about what we've been able to accomplish, but we believe we have a very, very strong record, economic and otherwise to go out and talk about it and now is the time to do that. >> before i let you go, buddy, just one real quick sort of easy question for you. you saw chris christie, and did the president call kristi by any chance tonight just to say, hey, i heard what you said today, brother? >> i wouldn't know that, but i would call it doubtful. >> you know, if so, just let us know.

cedric richmond, thank you my friend for coming on tonight. speaking of debates, tonight's debate and town hall were kicked off by another republican candidate sus spending his campaign. what this means just four days out from iowa. out from iowa. i'm jonathan lawson, here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54. what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80. what's my price?

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chris christie essentially kick off the tonhowls in the debate tonight by essentially ending his presidential campaign, but not before reminding supporters he thinks trump is the worst man for the job. just take a listen. >> it's clear to me tonight that there isn't a path for me to win the nomination, which is why i'm sus spending my campaign tonight for president of the united states. i know and i can see it from some of the faces here that i'm disappointing some people by doing this, people who believe in our message and believe in what we've been doing. i also know, though, it's the right thing for me to do. because i want to promise you this. i am going to make sure that in no way do i enable donald trump to ever be president of the united states again. and that's more important than my own personal ambition.

>> and just hours later, trump attended his own town hall in iowa where he seemed determined to prove kristi right. joining us now political strategist for former gop chair in new hampshire, my old friend. you're joining us tonight. i'm so happy. thank you for being here. so here's the deal. new hampshire is -- is just right for chris christie. it is a combination of democrats, republicans, and independent voters who all act like independent voters, right? >> right. >> why couldn't christie given what he said tonight out the door, and i know me happened that case continually throughout his campaign because that was his only focus in this thing, why couldn't that message resonate? why didn't it resonate with voters enough to say you know what, in the balance this is the guy who should be the one to take on trump and probably carry the party to a different place than trump is planning to take

it? >> well, first let me say i think that chris christie provided the nation with, you know, such a valuable service, such a valuable moment. if it wasn't for chris christie, the truth about donald trump and the truth about this gop primary would be lost in history. so because he was so aggressive and assertive and firm in standing in that message, we all want to thank you for that. and why didn't he take off in new mexico, because this is primary. he would have done better in a general election. everything that chris christie stood for in this race truth, ethics, honor, you know, who has the integrity to be president, you know, to win the presidency, all this message falls on deaf ears in a republican primary. party doesn't want to hear it. when you're talking about a

primary, you're talking about base voters. and even when we look at some of the numbers that are going to nikki haley or going to ron desantis, those are all people who are still thinking in some way either that those -- that those candidates will bring them some piece of trump or that when election day kind of rolls around, whether or not they really stay with those candidates, i'm not convinced. they want trump. they want trumpism. >> jennifer, watching the debate tonight between nikki haley and ron desantis through the lens of an undecided new hampshire voter or a persuadable new hampshire voter, was there anything that happened on that debate stage that might move a voter that is question one. question two, those chris christie voters in new hampshire who do they go to now? >> i'll start with question two. the polling shows they're most likely to go to nikki haley. we know the nature of human beings on election day, and it's something we talk about in new

hampshire all the time. no matter how decided somebody thinks they are, you know, the day before the election, don't be surprised if they change their mind as they're walking into that voting booth. you know, there are more undecided voters sometimes than what the polls really show. i think some of those votes are going to go to trump. you know, as for the first question the, oh, gosh, i'm so sorry she had to remind me what it was -- >> no, it is late. if there's anything that happen on that debate stage with desantis and haley that would change someone's mind? >> i would say unequivocally no. nothing happened today that is going to affect the election, either the caucus, in my opinion, or new hampshire. and so far i don't think it will change south carolina either. i was talking to some folks in south carolina and new hampshire during the debate as we were all kind of watching it together. i said to one of my friends in

new hampshire exactly what you just said to me. who moved the needle tonight, and he said nobody. he said the only thing anybody in new hampshire is talking about tonight is chris christie. he said i'd be surprised if even the normal number of people are even watching it. but neither one of them created any space between themselves or anymore space between themselves and donald trump. if you look at the polls, i know that nikki haley looks like she's surging in the last week or so. the average of the poll still has her ahead of trump by double digits. what i think is going to happen is trump is going to win iowa, new hampshire, win south carolina. and unfortunately for america i don't think either of those candidates, you know, did us any favors tonight. >> all right, jennifer horn, we're going to catch you in new hampshire in a couple weeks. thank you, my friend. don't go anywhere, folks. we'll have more on this debate, trump's town hall and his ongoing legal battles after

this. and be sure to tune in on saturday for a new morning show coming to msnbc. the three of us will be back here beginning at 8:00 a.m. eastern for "the weekend" every saturday and sunday. guess where? right here on msnbc.

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it is a significant week in the presidential race as it intertwines with the legal charges against donald