to make it to new hampshire and beyond? >> he needs to come in second and well above nikki haley. this already difficult. the polling hasn't been in his favor. his team thinks they'll overperform the polls. >> bloomberg's laura davidson, thank you, as always. certain we'll be speaking again soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this very busy thursday morning. a jam-packed "morning joe" starts right now. for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it. i'm proud to have done it. they wanted to get it back, right? you wouldn't -- there would be no question. nobody else was -- >> you celebrate that, yeah? >> we did it. we did something that was a miracle. when i walked on the stage today, a gentleman in the back, probably works for fox, nice guy, said, "sir, i'd like to thank you." i said, "for what?" he said, "you saved 2 million lives in the last three years. you saved 2 million lives."

i said, "thank you very much. i knew exactly what he meant." 2 million lives. >> that is perhaps the most important admission from donald trump last night, again bragging about being the one to eliminate a constitutional right for women's health care that has stood for over 50 years. >> and here's donald trump's problem, is he goes into, i would call it softball, a softball event. i've never seen one as fawning. i'm not even sure, why did they have two hosts there? they could have just had one, sit there and smile and say, "you're great. great." ask another softball question. it's like t-ball. he swung, hit the tee, and the ball rolled off. he bragged, katty, about

terminating roe v. wade. he said, "if it weren't for me, that 10-year-old girl in ohio that was raped by an illegal immigrant, if it weren't for me, she wouldn't have had to flee the state. if it weren't for me, women wouldn't be, like, dying outside of emergency rooms because doctors are afraid to conduct women's health care." he admitted. again, it was such an easy forum. it's not like he was backed into the corner. he admitted he was the one who terminated roe v. wade. what did the biden people do last night? they're just hanging out. they were probably laughing at all the republican chaos in the debate. then laughing at the fox news hosts who were just absolute jokes. it was an embarrassment. fox news, oh, we're going to be for desantis. even desantis' people were like, seriously? this is a paid advertisement for donald trump, which it was.

even in that setting, he's grown so old and hobbled intellectually, i guess. he thinks he is running against barack obama. he's worried about world war ii starting. even in the most gentle of circumstances, he made an incredible political mistake, and he knows it this morning. he knows it. incredible political mistake last night. "i was the one who terminated roe v. wade. i was the one, just me, nobody else could have stripped away 50 years of women's rights the way i, donald trump, did." >> in the end, it's about me, right? but every conversation i've had with the trump campaign over the last couple of months, there's been this effort to paint donald trump on moderate on abortion. he'll be the one to say, we can't have a federal ban. he'll say to other republicans, roll back the way that you talk about roe v. wade. don't sound extreme on abortion.

he's said after the midterms that some candidates had jeopardized their positions on the republican side because they had been too tough on apportion. he's pointed out ron desantis in that respect. for his campaign then, which is trying to get him to say, "i'm against a federal ban. we'll have a 15-week ban, because that's where most of the american public is." >> that's nikki haley's position, by the way, which is funny. they lifted nikki -- but he can't do it. play the clip again. again, i was shocked when i was sitting there. i was absolutely shocked, sitting watching, going, you know, are they going to, like, bring out some dreamland ribs for him? >> they might as well have. >> sit there and talk about football. >> right. >> it was the easiest thing. i've never seen, never seen a paid advertisement on fox news,

or anywhere else. this was, like, glenn beck survival scenes back when he had a show there. it was like an advertisement for donald trump.setting, he did this. >> for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it. i'm proud to have done it. they wanted to get it back, right? you wouldn't have that. >> we celebrate that, yeah. >> we did it, and we did something that was a miracle. when i walked onto the stage today, a gentleman in the back, probably works for fox, nice guy -- >> you know, it is really something, willie, he said, "i did it. nobody else could have done it. i terminated roe v. wade." and everybody in his campaign staff was like, oh, my god. >> trying to bury that one. >> the old man did it again. he can't help himself. >> yeah, i mean, at this point, the biden campaign doesn't have

to put out statements, they just retweet clips of donald trump saying these things overand over again. it's literally what he is doing, oh, he's going again, taking credit for the three justices on the supreme court. he wants credit for getting rid of a 50-year right in this country. and watching, joe, you're right, the town hall, just start with, rather than saying, here's what the lies were, almost everything he said last night was a lie, and then you can work backward from there. including the fact he said that the economy is a disaster right now, when he was confronted about the question where he said on tape that he hopes the economy crashes over the next 12 months under joe biden, and then he can help to recover. he was asked about that last night. he was sort of led along, to your point about, well, you didn't really mean that, right? he said, "no, because the market will crash under joe biden." actually, under joe biden, the economy has -- the market has gone over 37,000. that's the dow number. we can go through all the data

about donald trump saying this economy is a disaster, about unemployment, about gdp growth, about unemployment ticking down, all the things that have come -- excuse me, inflation ticking down. you go and listen to that. if you were being honest with yourself, watching that town hall, how you could believe anything he was saying. because almost everything he said unchallenged was a lie last night, and people have to ask themselves if that is somebody they want to vote for. we'll find out in four days if they do. >> it's a media question about this, too, mark. the media question is, is this fox news now? fox news was going to be, like, pushing back against him, the murdochs, we've heard they don't like donald trump. suddenly, he's allowed to lie. he is given a town hall meeting, a format where he is allowed to lie the entire time. they're not pushing him back. here is a guy this past week, this past week, who said he hoped people lost their retirement savings, their

401(k)s. he hoped the economy crashed. he hoped the economy was destroyed. he hoped the stock market crashed. and he's just led down the primrose path last night. here's a guy this past week who said abraham lincoln got it wrong by not caving to the pro-slavery forces in the south and settling that dispute and avoiding the civil war. nothing, nothing. there's so many things this guy says every day, and they just let him walk. so the media -- >> j6 hostages. >> yeah, j6 hostages. you can go on and on. terminating the constitution, executing generals, go down the list. is this -- i mean, it's fine if that's what fox wants to do. is this who they are now? have they decided now, we endorse donald trump? it sure looked like it last night. >> well, i mean, there are a lot

of things to deal with here. first of all, yes, it's who fox is. it's who fox is. they've been that for a long, long time. it's not like trump needs prompting to go to these places. first, he talked about terminating roe v. wade, interesting choice of words. that soundbite is gold. >> the biden campaign, they couldn't pay him to say something more dumb. >> right. but you also lose -- i mean, it all blurs in the mind. by the way, abe lincoln didn't overturn roe v. wade, did he? >> no. >> it's a joke. >> he could have beat abraham lincoln, too. >> the media, i have no sympathy for fox and certainly don't know how to handle a thing like that, but where do you begin? the last five minutes, we talked about six different things that could have blown up any campaign in history. >> right. my point is, they didn't mention one of them. >> it's not like they -- they didn't mention one, but they didn't stop on one.

the town halls are imperfect. i mean, especially when -- i mean, let me put it this way. he made plenty of news last night, news in the donald trump context. what is going to really break through next week? we forgot the dictator thing. we forgot the vermin thing. it's the same thing as 2016. it's not like you need someone to prompt him to this. i mean, this is, more to the point -- >> but it'd be nice if once in a while people would say, "what you're saying right there is a lie." we got absolutely none of them. that's even unprompted, in that situation, again, donald trump forgets his campaign's message, goes out and just gives -- again, gives the biden campaign the greatest gift they could have gotten last night. >> rare when you see a moment literally change millions of dollars in political advertisement, like one line. that line will be in millions of dollars of political

advertisement the next eight months. he called it a miracle. you could see it repackaged. i wouldn't advise this as a professional thing, softball interviews, but the things we're talking about, the statements trump has made have come when he's gone into exceedingly easy forms. last night is one. the dictator for a day line was a sean hannity interview. his hope for an economic collapse, lou dobbs. not advising this as an interview practice, but sometimes these trip him up. he thinks he is in a friendly forum, gets overly comfortable, and he slips. this is going to hurt his campaign. i mean, we're talking about, well, there's so much. we just move on to the next thing. people forget, like, there is a ceiling on his support for a reason. we talk a lot about joe biden and his difficulty recruiting voters. trump has the same problem. >> i have to say, one of the best columns i've seen this week, in the bulwark, here's the

deal. this is biden's low watermark. everybody is moaning, the democrats are bedwetting and all that. we know donald trump has a ceiling. we know that joe biden has sort of a basement level of support. and young voters are going to come home. most black voters are going to come home. good bit of hispanic voters are going to come home. not as much historically, but enough of the base are going to come home. this is going to be a tight race. by the way, you look at a pennsylvania, a new pennsylvania poll that came out, and we're starting to see this not just for joe biden but fetterman is polling better than he has in a very long time. t.j., i'm going to do this, by the way, we have a new -- ah, there it is -- we have a new pennsylvania poll that has joe biden up 49% to 46%. only one poll, one snapshot, but i always looked at polls, never believed them, but when i was running, i looked at trend lines. in the state of pennsylvania,

the trend lines are very good for democrats. that could change. at the same time, what sam said, good point, trump is at a ceiling. he goes out and says things like that. he basically admitted to taking foreign money, as well, while he was president of the united states. taking a hell of a lot more foreign money as i guess his whole family seems to have, than hunter biden, so he keeps stumbling over himself. they want us to play it. >> here it is. >> there is this report, house democrats documents that say nearly $8 million in payments to your businesses from foreign governments, china included, saudi arabia, while you were in office. they say article i of the constitution says you can't accept money from foreign governments while president. would you pledge to divest from your business in the second term, as other presidents have done? that's what they're reporting. >> i own hotels all over the --

i don't get free money. somebody rents a hotel room, et cetera. much money i gave back. in fact, i didn't have to do it. i put everything in trust. if i have a hotel and somebody comes in from china, that's a small amount of money. it sounds like a lot of money. that's a small -- but i was doing services for them. people were staying in these massive, beautiful hotels because i have the best hotels. i have the best clubs. i have the best clubs. i have great stuff. they stay there, and they pay. i don't get $8 million for doing nothing like hunter. >> oh, yes, you do. yes, yes, you do. and it's so funny, all of the saudis, all of the chinese, all of the foreign business interests that funneled into the trump hotel right by the white house, the second he leaves, he sells the hotel, cashes in on it. fascinating, could have been a follow-up question to say, well, what about you diverting mike

pence when he was in, i think, ireland? they diverted mike pence's flight to go to the other side of the country to stay at a trump hotel. i mean, using government money. there's one example after another example after another example. again, not pushed on that. >> just last week, we reported on this big report that came as a result of getting tax returns from the house democrats on the oversight committee, that he made, at a very bare minimum, you know, shy of $10 million in foreign government spending by foreign officials and these countries like china, saudi arabia, you know, a laundry list. but all of this, this comment came hours after house republicans held their first -- held their contempt hearing to hold hunter biden in criminal contempt of congress for defying a congressional subpoena in the impeachment investigation into joe biden for allegedly being involved in his son's foreign

business dealings. the contrast is really just remarkable at the end of the day. >> absolutely zero evidence. >> they were jeering and leering at him. >> the contrast is just remarkable. >> i mean, you saw trump there trying to make this very bizarre distinct and the different types of corruption and why his is viable, because this is what he has -- an industry he has been in his whole life, and hunter biden, meanwhile, has no experience in business. >> yeah. >> but you talk about a ceiling, it's also fascinating because trump's advisors last night were texting my colleagues, we reported this morning, that they were really happy with his performance on fox news. they felt like he did appeal to a general election by coming out and saying, okay, you know, i know i said i'd be a dictator day one. i'm not going to do that

anymore. [ laughter ] >> talk about a low bar. >> it was a good night for him, willie. >> wow. >> a free -- >> you can judge that by saying what the biden campaign did. they're sitting back. >> free campaign ad. >> cut, paste, up on the site. >> making the social media team's job easy over there. trump actually said, no, they cut it off. they took my quote out of context about wanting to be a dictator. if you are parsing your quote about wanting to be a dictator, it is probably not a great moment. jonathan lemire, people are obviously, after a decade of this, a little numb to what donald trump says, but we ought to point out that just this week, the man who wants to be president again, first through his attorneys, said they believe he could order s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political rival under the right circumstances. he'd like to see the stock market crash this year. he pushed a birther conspiracy about nikki haley. he said there would be bedlam in the country if he is convicted

in his federal trial around the 2020 election. also, went after abe lincoln for not negotiating with the south to end the civil war. that's all within one week with how many months left to go in this campaign. >> he also suggested he'd have beaten abe lincoln by 30 points if they ran against each other. >> impressive. >> this is trump on full display this week. in a week where, as we'll get to all morning long, where the political and legal forces are really kind of pushing together, coming to a head for him right now. he'll be in court again so many times in the weeks ahead. this is, for the biden campaign, this is the contrast that they want to offer. this is -- they have been hearing for months and months, and they've taken the criticism that their campaign has been slow to move, and they push back and say, last year, the second path was fundraising. this is going to be a $2 billion campaign. we have to spend on the ads that donald trump was so helpfully providing for us. we have to pay for those. and we heard the president friday in valley forge, heard

from him again monday in charleston, drawing the contrast between what he offers america and the extreme dangers donald trump presents. joe mentioned the pennsylvania poll. pennsylvania is probably the most important state on the map. it is one that joe biden likely can't be president without winning again. he's spent so much time there. he is going again friday and next week. pennsylvania is a state where they know there are pockets of the state that donald trump is going to win. they see how popular he is in the western part of the state. there's just enough, they feel like, that can turn out the democratic base, and they've got wories about the democratic base, but if they turn out the cities and the suburban voters who will be turned off by this. everything you recapped. everything donald trump said in the last week, that's not going to win his voters, the suburban women voters who, of course, are outraged by, so many of them, roe v. wade being overturned and donald trump taking credit for it. that is the rejection the biden campaign is banking on. yes, right now, everything trump is doing is only helping him in the primary, only going to hurt

in november. >> we've seen president biden for the first time, first at valley forge and then south carolina, taking donald trump head on and going directly at him, calling him a loser from the pulpit in south carolina. so the view of the biden campaign, as you guys know, talking to them, is just patience. we have a long campaign ahead of us. we know you've seen polls you don't like. we understand young voters still need time to come back home. just wait. we have a long campaign ahead. once the contrast is drawn as nearly as it has been this week, they like their chances. >> well, your list was incredible. just this week, he made the argument that he could unleash s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate a political opponent, and he'd have immunity. >> part of last night, right? >> no, not really. >> oh. >> the birthism of nikki haley. >> sure they brought that up. >> no. >> abraham lincoln. >> probably question one.

>> no. >> we could do this all morning, and we will. >> wow. >> i want to go back to the pennsylvania poll. sam and katty, i want us to talk about this part of it. because everybody is focusing on younger voters who, right now, are not moving towards him as much as they thought. they're going to come home. they just will. you look at this number, though. voters 65 and older, joe biden, 60%. donald trump. sam, nobody expected this, but we have seen this. older voters have been moving toward joe biden steadily for quite some time. and, of course, as we know, older voters, they vote. >> yeah, i was picking up on this a couple weeks ago. "the new york times" did a survey about who was actually concerned about trump's legal troubles and if they thought they were serious. you saw the same age breakdown. 65 and older way more concerned about it than the younger

generation which piqued my interest. why is that? maybe they lived through watergate and understand the severity of it. you're seeing it in poll after poll. traditionally, more conserative republicans are backing biden. maybe the age attacks on biden are offending this cohort. >> i think that's a big part of it, too. >> either way, this explains to a degree democratic success in the midterms, right? these are the reliable voters who come out no matter what, even in off years, and they're drifting democratic. it is just a remarkable tectonic shift in politics that has gone underappreciated. >> the trump campaign has always felt the thing they have going against them is trump. i mean, the irony, right? of course, lots of people love him, but it is exactly the things he said last night that get them worried. you know, mark milley should be executed. it's the chaos factor that nikki haley is starting to play up in

new hampshire. we keep hearing her talk about, you don't want the chaos of donald trump. if you are an older voter, chaos is scary for everybody. >> right. >> but it is particularly scary, i think, when you're older and feeling more frail and feeling more fragile about the world anyway, to have that kind of level of chaos. perhaps you're a little wiser. >> yeah. >> you pair that with what we heard, mika, talking to chris coons the other day. >> yeah. >> there are economic numbers that are starting to look good for the biden campaign. i mean, even considering inflation, raises are rising enough that people are better off in this country. i know the frustration in the white house that people don't feel that yet. give that six months, and the white house is certainly hoping that you compare the two things with -- >> should we ask someone who is frail and fragile about old voter sentiment, mark? >> cheap shot. >> what a transition. >> younger than i am. >> let me redirect that and just say that we also understand that when you say the stock market is higher than it has ever been,

setting records, who are the biggest beneficiaries of those? people who are 65 and older. they're looking at their retirement accounts. they depend on those retirement accounts to get them through their retirement years. possibly to get them later on into good medical and end of life care. they're looking at those numbers. then they hear donald trump saying, we hope your retirement goes up in smoke because i want to get elected president of the united states. >> yeah. >> seniors hear that. it has an impact. >> and they vote, yeah. >> they vote. >> also, to katty's point, i mean, the chaos message, just the sense of chaos around him is especially voters, like myself. [ laughter ] >> all right. >> when my kids haven't looked in on me for a few days -- >> one of the tennis balls on your walker is off, and how do you replace it? >> the chaos of having a

president like that is very, very unnerving. anyway -- coming up, we have so much more to get to. we're going to recap a chaotic day on capitol hill. >> oh, my lord. >> house republicans continue to put their grievances over governance. what are they getting done? >> they continue to make fools of themselves. >> with gop-led committee voted to formally recommend the full house hold hunter biden in contempt of congress. >> because he wouldn't testify. >> what a day on capitol hill. >> wait, he was there to testify. >> he was there, and they were at a low point, those republicans. >> you actually asked the first lady about this. >> i did. i sat down with first lady dr. jill biden for an exclusive interview. i asked her about that development in real time, as it was playing out. we'll play for you her answer. and why she says this is the most important campaign her husband has ever run. we're back in just a moment.

(fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) your clients really come first then, huh? (fisher investments) yes. we make them a top priority, by getting to know their finances, family, health, lifestyle and more. (other money manager) wow, maybe we are different. (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. ends monday. only at sleep number. these underwear are period-proof. and sneeze-proof. and sweat-proof. they're leakproof underwear, from knix. comfy & confident protection that feel just like normal. with so many styles and colors to choose from,

switching is easy at knix.com

singlecare is amazing. even though i have insurance, it can't beat the pricing i get on my medication through singlecare. before i submit any prescriptions, i always check singlecare first! just go to singlecare.com, search for your prescription and show the coupon to your pharmacist. millions of people on medicare, just like me, use singlecare every month, and you can too! visit singlecare.com and start saving today. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) with the push of a button, constant contact's ai tools help you know what to say, even when you don't. hi! constant contact. helping the small stand tall.

your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

it's a live picture of the united states capitol, coming you on 6:30 in the morning. the building where, yesterday, the house of representatives again covered itself in glory, as two congressional committees voted along party lines to formally recommend the full housol hunter biden in contempt of congress for defying a subpoena in the republican impeachment inquiry into his president, despite the fact he's shown up to testify. earlier in the day, hunter made a surprise appearance at the house oversight committee hearing, sitting in the audience with his attorneys for the first 30 minutes. some members of congress addressing him directly while sparring with each other. >> you are the epitome of white privilege. coming into the oversight committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed. what are you afraid of?

you have no balls to come up here and -- >> mr. chairman, point of inquiry. >> mr. chairman -- >> the lady is recognized. >> if the gentlelady wants to hear from hunter biden, we can hear from him right now. let's take a vote and hear from hunter biden. >> i am speaking. are women allowed to speak? >> order, hold on. >> hunter biden should be arrested right here, right now, and go straight to jail. >> mr. chairman, i ask you unanimous consent to enter information for the record. >> what's the information? >> i reserve the right to object. the minority is not provided a copy of the material for the record. in the past, she's displayed -- are pornographic images allowed to be displayed? >> it's not pornography. >> you're the expert. >> seems like it. >> she did, in fact, hold up a nude photograph of hunter biden

in the united states house of representatives. meanwhile, democratic congressman moskowitz of florida pointed out the obvious republican hypocrisy on this matter. >> listen, i'll make this bipartisan. you can get my vote, but i want you to show the american people that you're serious. here is the subpoena to representative scott perry, who did not comply. i'd like to enter this into the record. here is the subpoena to mark me adows, did not comply. the subpoena to jim jordan, who did not comply with a lawful subpoena. i'd like to enter that into the record. here is the subpoena to moe brooks, who did not comply. i'd like to enter that into the record. the subpoena to mr. biggs, didn't comply. and mr. mccarthy who did not comply. i'd like to enter that into the record. there is an amendment coming to add some of those names into the contempt order. you vote to add those names and show the american people that we apply the law equally, not just

when it is democrats, right, it's a crime when it is democrats, but when it is trump and republicans, it's just fine? no, show you're serious and that everyone is not above the law. vote for that amendment, and i'll vote for the hunter biden contempt. >> they did not vote for the amendment. joe and mika, in the first clip, congressman mace was screaming at hunter biden for not having the stones, let's put it that way, to show up and testify, as he is literally sitting in the room, willing to testify. they don't want it to happen in an open forum like that. also, chairman comer said with a straight face, hunter biden, no one is above the law in america. as they spend most of their professional lives defending donald trump against the charges against him. >> i thought it was interesting, arnold the pig from "green acres" whispered that line into his ear, and he repeated it. >> wow. >> yeah, yeah. still the smartest guy on that side of the aisle.

it was an old tv series, "green acres." >> i get it. >> the pig was the smartest guy in town. >> i get it. >> anyway, you get it, old man. >> that was one charming pig. >> the smartest, also, in town. first of all, nancy mace, it's just -- it has to be dizzying. i'm a reasonable person. you don't have balls. i'm a reasonable person. i just was with my boyfriend at a -- you know, seriously? >> right. >> we've a description for that in northwest florida. that's called a runaway beer truck, and that is exactly what she is. but let's underline the hypocrisy that jared moskowitz showed. by the way, those were all members of congress. all members of congress defying the subpoenas. >> acting like schoolyard bullies in a revoting way. >> they said hunter biden didn't have the stones, we shall say,

to testify. he was there to testify in public, but they didn't have the guts to let him testify. they did not want transparency. they did not want the american people to hear the truth. they wanted to take it behind closed doors. again, republicans shooting themselves in the political foot. >> first of all, why is it that republicans don't have the guts but hunter biden doesn't have the stones? these are just questions. thank you to you and willie for saying stones because this is an important distinction here. look, the hypocrisy is itself explanatory. i also remember the white house saying when it was a really close -- when the house underperformed for republicans in the last midterms, they loved the idea, and they saw this coming, that this was going to be the circus that was going to be front and center for the republican party. sort of the sideshow to donald trump, which is saying something. >> jackie -- >> what are they getting done,

by the way, while doing all this, anything? any good stuff on tap? >> not a deal to fund the government. >> right. >> jackie, also, historically, this is the least effective congress in generations, in a generation. they've passed less legislation, done less, this house. >> yeah. i mean, this circus-like show we saw yesterday, not just the hunter biden criminal contempt hearing but also the first hearing to impeach alejandro mayorkas sort of covered up the bigger issue that mike johnson is facing right now, which is the complete collapse of the deal that he claims he negotiated, which is really the same deal that kevin mccarthy hashed out to uphold his agreement with joe biden and the biden administration on -- >> republicans voted to kill the bill. they voted against the rule, which you never vote against your own party's rule. >> exactly. you're seeing the same revote happen again. hard line right republicans who are not in favor of this additional spending.

$69 billion of a side agreement that has held fast and headed for a government shutdown. the exact same problems again that republicans faced three months ago when mike johnson made the case for why he'd be a better speaker than kevin mccarthy. >> quickly, is ukraine going to get funded? is israel going to get funded? most importantly rightmestic po republicans going to do the deal to toughen up protections at the southern border? >> that is also in limbo. you have hard line republicans who think the government is worth shutting down if hr-2, the staunch border security bill that the house passed last may, are not willing to accept this bipartisan package that has been negotiated in the senate, which is now also falling apart over a few different provisions, specifically parole and the expediting of work permits. there are a lot of unknowns on both sides here which is all to

say that there is at least another week of negotiations and, no, we are not near funding israel or ukraine. >> jackie, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. mark, if we bring some geritol, milk of magnesia, ben-gay for the joints, will you stay another hour? >> can i get a nap before the 9:00 hour? >> we provide nap breaks for our seniors here. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> it's why i come. >> -- president biden is stepping up his attacks on donald trump, drawing a clear contrast between the two candidates. we're going to discuss the strategy for his re-election bid with one of the campaign managers next on "morning joe." i'm andrea, founder of a boutique handbag brand - andi - and this is why i switched to shopify. it's the challenges that we don't expect, like a site going down or the checkout wouldn't work. what's nice about shopify is when i'm with my family, when i'm taking time off, knowing

that i have a site up and running and our business is moving forward because we have a platform that we can rely on. that is gold to us. start your free trial at shopify today.

she found it. the feeling of finding the psoriasis treatment she's been looking for. she found sotyktu, a once—daily pill for moderate—to—severe plaque psoriasis... for the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding your back... is back. or finding psoriasis can't deny the splendor of these thighs. ♪♪ once—daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family.

it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. ♪ upbeat music ♪ ♪ [ tires screeching ] director: cut! jordana, easy on the gas. force of habit. i gotta wrap this commercial, i think i'm late on my payment. it's okay, the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, we let you pick your own due date so you can pay your car insurance when it's best for you. well that's good to know, because this next scene might take a while. [ helicopter and wind noises ] for a great low rate, go with the general.

the power goes out and we still have wifi [ helicopter and wind noises ] to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. i ask everybody that asks me that question, are you going to be here four years? some player asked me, when you going to retire? i look at them and say, well, can you guarantee me you'll be

here four years? they looked at me like, hell, no, i'm not making that -- >> that was alabama head coach nick saban a week ago laughing off retirement rumors during the interview on the pat mcafee show. last night, the legendary coach announced he's hanging up after 17 seasons with the crimson tide. let's bring in "new york times" best seller author and espn commentator paul finebaum. he has been the voice of crimson tide football, basketball, everything for years. also, the host of "pablo torre finds out" on meadowlark media, pablo torre. we spoke offline this past week, and you sort of saw this coming. i couldn't figure out exactly what he was going to do. i don't see him just kicking around the golf course. you had said that you got the feeling that maybe it was just time. tell us about that.

>> there were little signs, joe. been around him a number of times this year, and he is 72, whatever that means. but every time i saw him, he just seemed a little closer to the end. as the news broke last night and as i heard from your people in new york, i couldn't help but think back to january 4th, 2007, joe. i was a guest on scarborough country. the topic was how much money they were paying nick saban. he was making $4 million a year. the head of the alabama board of trustees, a coal mining executive said, this is outrageous. we shouldn't be paying ceo type money. we all know now nick saban has been worth hundreds of millions of dollars to this university, and i think he took that into consideration. he took a surprising season. we were here, what, seven weeks ago, talking abo the miracle at auburn. i think he felt, win or lose in pasadena, it was a good time to

pass the torch. >> yeah, pablo, you have some distance from this in a way that certainly i do not. >> correct. >> i've never -- i've always seen john wooden as the epitome of coaching. maybe, you know, sir alex with man united, could put him in wooden's category for anybody following the premier league. you'd probably agree with me there. but the past couple years, i started to put saban in the wooden category. because for him to do what he did in this age of parody, i still -- i'd love to talk to him sometime, not about football but about management, leadership, and how he did it. it was really remarkable. >> yeah, joe, this is an incredibly difficult job, college football coach who happens to become the greatest of all time. you mentioned the age of parody. this feels like the end of an era.

part of the thing about him retiring at this moment is that the sport is also changing around him. this is the unbiased propaganda from joe scarborough on screen right now, a man who helped get this guy into office, so to speak. joe, whatever you saw in him when other people didn't, i'll give you credit for that. what he became is unfathomable. because he is the sort of coach where you say things like, hmm, he has more first round nfl draft picks, 44, than he has losses as head coach of alabama. >> that's amazing. >> this is a guy who has every four-year player who ever played for him winning a national title. in this era now that is changing, of course, the transfer portal, name, image, and likeness payments, all the stuff that complicates the advantage that nick saban, by his greatness had as a recruiter and coach and the resources of alabama behind him, i think he looked around and said, i maximized all a human being

could maximize during this time. now, my time is over and so, too, is this time in college football. >> what i saw was a strong, strong leader, a smart guy, and alabama needed one person in charge and not a bunch of retired football players yapping and trying to take control of the situation. you know, willie, pablo brings up a great point. this is a chaotic time in college football. just an absolute mess. you look at the transfer portals. you look at all the money they're throwing at kids. you know, we for years would have people on saying that college players needed to be paid for all they were doing. it's gotten so chaotic and out of control, i can see why that also would be a good reason for nick saban to say, yeah, we're moving into a new era. i think i'll just pack it up and go home. >> yeah. i mean, it is a hard time to be a head football coach. you make a lot of money, i get that, no one is weeping for these guys, but someone like nick saban who talks about

family, keeping a team together. the end of every season, you have to recruit your own players not to leave for a better opportunity because lsu, a&m is offering your best wide receiver money and, you know, an endorsement deal with a local car dealership to leave. that's a totally different job. paul, i want to put a little meat on the bones for the case for nick saban as the greatest of all time. i guess paul "bear" bryant is in the conversation, as well, another alabama great. saban, seven national titles, six as alabama, 11 s.e.c. championships, four heisman winn far and away the mostumber one first round nfl pi so he talked about that, you know, giving his kids a chance to succeed and chase their nfl dreams, he always did that. another number i couldn't believe, i had to check it twice, paul, was in his 17 seasons, nick saban had a number one ranked team at some point in the season 15 times. that shouldn't happen. over the course of that many

years, you're bound to have some down time, bad years, recruiting class, injuries. he always found a way to be in the conversation for the national championship. extraordinary over that length of time. >> willie, two quick things, one about bryant. first about the transfer portal. before last season, the 21 season that alabama did not make the playoffs, he had an opportunity to grab the top wide receiver in the entire country. he was faced with having to pay the guy about $3 million. how legal that is, it doesn't matter, but that's what the price was. he said, no way. i cannot deal with that on my team. that guy went elsewhere. had that player been on alabama's team last year, they would have been in the playoffs with a great shot at winning it all. back to bryant for a second, living in alabama all those years, and joe can relate to this, having been to school around the time of bryant leaving, as saban started winning championships, it was difficult. nobody wanted to say he was better than bryant.

one day, i was on the phone with mark kisen, paul bryant's grandson, and i was dancing around the subject. finally, he just cut to the chase and said, listen, you don't need to sweet talk me. he said, my papa, my grandfather, i know how great he was, but, please, start saying nick saban is the greatest of all time. because he is. end of discussion. >> wow. >> bear bryant was the greatest of all time, but he'd be the first to say that nick saban is now. in 2023, just talking about how tough this job is, day in and day out, year in and year out, i was talking, john lemire, i was at the orange bowl. we were playing notre dame. i was talking before the game actually on the field with joe manchin, who, you know, is like a brother to nick saban. they both grew up in west virginia, right by each other.

you know, as we were walking, i said, "how long do you think he'll stay here?" this was a decade ago. he goes, "i just can't see him staying here very long, much longer." he said, "the pressure is overwhelming." he said, "if you lose one game in tuscaloosa now, it's a failed season. the pressure on the kids. the pressure on the coaching staff, just too much." joe manchin had predicted that he was going to leave a long time ago. he stayed another decade, and he just kept winning championships. remarkable story. >> yeah. to do so in spite of that pressure, to put up, as willie read, the resume. i mean, the greatest college coaching record of all time. deserving of all the accolades he is going to get today. pablo, i want to ask you about what's next. >> yeah. >> it doesn't mean the belichick to tuscaloosa rumors that i know you're about to start, but it goes to the future of college football. this seems like the end of an era. we mentioned how much more

complicated it is now. it is going to be that much harder, that much more money in it, the playoffs are about to expand. there's a sense that the conferences are changing and realigning. for people who followed it a long time, there is a sense the sport is spinning out of control, and saban leaving, such an anchor, it is only going to add to that. >> college football, as paul finebaum can attest, has always been nuts. it is the craziest, most popular sport in america. it is the second most popular sport in america, right behind the nfl. this regional tribalism beset now by economic change. kids, these players should be paid, but, also, that demands, okay, a difference in how do we manage these egos? how do we manage all these people? how do we manage expectations? the expectations at alabama, i'm curious how joe feels in his heart right now. because the replacement of nick saban at this specific time, that job is not a job i would ever want to have. i'd like to replace that guy,

joe. i don't want to be that guy. there is no way, with all of these pressures, that job, i don't know, over/under on three years that guys lasts, realist realistically at this point? >> i learned a lot, watching people try to replace bear bryant. i was in school when he left, and it was savage. whether it was ray perkins or the spade of people that followed afterwards. that's one of the reasons why i was calling for somebody tough and strong like nick saban. he had to stare down not just the boosters, he had to stare down a legend. you need somebody big enough. saban, it's like, yeah, basically, he was like, bear bryant, he was great. that was then. this is now. let's build anew. there aren't many people that are going to do that. as hard as it is for me to believe, nick saban's shadow going to be even bigger.

who would want to follow it? better be somebody who has a strong sense of themselves and who is not going to listen to all the yappers who are going to say, for the first five years, he's no nick saban. >> yeah. as you said a minute ago, the standard is so wild that this year, alabama lost one game at home to texas, and people's hair was on fire. what's wrong? saban is done. alabama is done. well, he went out and won every game the rest of the season, including beating georgia in the s.e.c. championship game. came one bad play at the end of overtime away from being in the national title game again. that is the standard. you lose one game in tuscaloosa, and that's the problem. paul finebaum, who is the clubhouse leader right now to take this job? there's a lot of talk about dan lanning at oregon. he was a graduate assistant at alabama. great defensive coordinator at georgia after that, now doing a really good job in sarkisian, assistant to saban.

there's saban disciples in the conversation. >> i think dan lanning is the coach to watch right now. it seems too difficult for sar sarkisian, who coached under saban. he was fired because of the public intoxication. one quick story. we started this conversation about what makes nick saban unique. when he was at the miami dolphins in 2005, in the preseason, his first preseason there, he got a call from the white house. george w. bush was coming down, and he wanted to have a dinner at the famed joestone crab house, which everybody knows about. he had dan marino lined up, don shula, and he wanted saban to come. saban sent word back, and i asked, how could you turn down dinner with the president of the united states? he said, what do you mean? he said, i was two weeks into training camp. i wasn't going to interrupt my job, nor would he have interrupted a major crisis to

have dinner with me. that was the end of the conversation. he didn't blink an eye, guys. >> that is what you call focused. paul finebaum, pablo torre, thank you, both, so much. can't wait to be talking to you guys early next week after we get through the first round of the nfl playoffs. >> there we go. >> mika, we're done. >> oh, no, that's fine. >> you were struggling through that. >> i was wondering about niek nick saban and what he was going to do. this is a huge story. >> i went to the rose bowl. >> yeah. >> i did not see -- usually, football, it is not a game to see live. it's a tv sport to see all the actions up close. i didn't realize until we got back, because jack and joey and i were watching the game, didn't realize until i got back, you said that nick saban was strangely passive on the sidelines. he just wasn't reacting. you and your daughter, who is a

massive football fan, said something was off. >> well, we just -- he seemed reflective. that's all. maybe a lot was on his mind. we definitely both looked at each other and said, "i wonder what is going on with him." kind of weird. >> maybe he can run against tommy tuberville. >> probably could. back to presidential politics now. the biden campaign starting to hone in on its likely opponent in the general election, donald trump. take a look. >> the democracy is still america's sacred cause, and it is the most urgent question of our time. it is what the 2024 election is all about. choice is clear. donald trump's campaign is about him, not america, not you. donald trump's campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. he's willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power. our campaign is different. >> joining us now, principal

deputy campaign manager for president biden's re-election bid, quentin folkes. good to have you on the set in washington. coming off the gop debate last night and the trump town hall, what is the biden campaign reaction, especially to what was shown on fox last night? >> look, last night, america had split screen, saw the republican party and what they want to do. nikki haley and ron desantis on one side and donald trump on the other, praising out of touch things for the american people, doubling down on ripping away freedoms to the american people. the campaign really put the focus clear, we saw president biden in pennsylvania and south carolina, making sure voters know we have to stand up for american freedoms and democracy. then we saw what republicans did. donald trump saying he wished the economy would crash. it's very clear, he is not concerned about american voters. he is only in this for himself and for revenge and retribution. >> katty?

>> some polling suggested that the democracy message the president made so forcefully over the last week is one that resonates with democrats at least but not so much with independent voters. how do you shift it now to make this about their daily lives so when they're going to the polling stations, they're thinking, there's the economy important to me, and, actually, democracy is important to my daily life? >> well, you know, what i would say is our defense of that is polls don't vote, voters do. president biden has been preaching this from the beginning, since he got in this race. he ran to restore the fabric of our nation, the soul of our nation. what i would say to the independent voters is, i think economic freedom, the freedom to provide for your families is something they're concerned about. when donald trump is saying he wishes the economy would crash, he's not thinking about the firefighters or teachers. he is thinking about himself. they care about that. i think those voters would also care about the freedom to send their kids to school and be safe. donald trump isn't concerned about that. when mass shootings happen in the country, donald trump says,

we have to get over it. when people say, man, you're doubling down on ripping away a women's right to choose, the independent women, i don't think they'd say, it is okay because we have to win elections. look, democracy is something i think these independent voters care about, and we'll continue to make that case to them. >> sam. >> back to nick saban -- no. james clyburn this sunday was asked about the state of the campaign. he is optimistic, obviously, but he said something i thought was interesting, that he is very worried about the campaign's inability to reach black voters and explain to them, more or less, the accomplishments biden has had in office. is he wrong to be worried? >> look, first of all, i want to level set this, like, nobody, no administration has accomplished what the biden/harris administration accomplished for the african-american community. black wealth is up 60%. the racial wealth gap is the lowest it's ever been in recorded history. you know, record low

unemployment for black americans. our campaign has to continue to communicate with these voters. we're not taking any of them for granted. we came out of the gate very early with large buys in constituency media communicating to the voters. lastly, they have the most at steak in this election. they know what donald trump is going to do. they've seen it before. he's had four years to show them he doesn't care about them, and every single day since he's left office, he's done something or said something -- >> why do you think they have not -- at least, whyregistered accomplishments you laid out? why aren't they with you now? >> i don't buy into it. i don't accept the premise of the question. i don't think that from time to time -- i don't think that african-american voters are not with us. this is a choice. i'm proud of the work our campaign has done and proud of the accomplishments this president has gotten dope and the promises he's kept. i also think that is a big piece, too.

american voters generally feel taken for granted when it comes to american politics. the fact that president biden said that he was going to do something and has gone into office and done just that is another piece of the argument we're going to continue to make. >> our senior citizen correspondent, mark leibovich, is here. >> elder statesman. >> has a question for you. >> meals on wheels -- no. are we going to see more of biden doing speeches like this? is he going to become more of the -- is we going to see more of him leading the cycle and the conversation? >> absolutely. look, the president has been out and about since april. he has been doing it. voters don't make a distinction between an official speech and a political speech. the rhetoric and the tone in what you're talking about, we have to take that case to voters. the president and the vice president are our best validaters in this. we have to make sure he is out and about. he'll continue to do that and do it forcefully. >> last night, fox viewers saw donald trump normalized again,

not really asked about anything super crazy or potentially criminal. accused of four indictments, fraud suits, rape, whatever, none of that. are high-profile biden surrogates going to gocounter t? >> we have to be everywhere. >> are you going to get on fox news. >> yeah, yup. i'd go on fox news anytime they want. >> okay, but is that -- i think it takes two to make that happen. >> yup. >> are there plans? >> i mean, if they're interested in having an open conversation about truth and want to really pose questions that the american people care about, we're happy to go. we have nothing to hide there. they don't want to ask the tough questions and push these candidates to talk about real things. they are on personal revenge tours when it comes to, you know, politics today. that's precisely why nothing is getting done. happy to have that conversation. send our surrogates on there to have the conversation about what is at stake in this election. >> principal deputy campaign

manager for president biden's re-election bid, quinten fulks, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. former president trump will not give his defense closing argument at the civil fraud trial hearing. prosecutors asked judge engoron agreedfused that he'd abide by judge's conditions. letitia james is seeking $370 million in restitution after the judge agreed trump fraudulently inflated his network by falsifying financial records. joining us from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan, former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. good morning. there was some back and forth here. >> hi, willie. >> the judge released an email chain saying he was inclined to let donald trump speak in his own defense. but it sounds like the former

president and his team couldn't agree to terms, like the fact he wouldn't give a campaign speech during his closing argument or attack the court itself. >> yeah, the president and his team not only couldn't agree, they couldn't respond. willie, at the end of the email chain, judge engoron says, i've given you three extensions. you have seven minutes. having not responded, he's not going to speak tomorrow. one thing i want to point out to you and our viewers is what we are describing as the judge's preconditions, essentially the same rules that would govern any attorney in delivering a closing argument. there are a couple of things that engoron made transparent that would be obvious to any lawyer as an officer of the court that needed to be said for trump because he doesn't have that occupational background. otherwise, the preconditions are the things that i would have to abide by, for example, when i was in practice, in determine to delivering a closer. they are not unusual.

what's unusual is any party who has competent counsel asking to also participate in their own closing argument. i've never seen that happen in almost 20 years of being a lawyer or a former lawyer, and i don't think anybody else you could put on this show would say they've seen it happen either. >> lisa, trump is still, if not going to speak, expected to be there today. give us a sense as to how you do anticipate the day playing out and whether trump's team has suggested he'll, even if he can't speak in front of the judge, he'll grab a bank of cameras at some point later. >> yeah. john, you know he always grabs a bank of cameras here, which is part of what makes this proceeding behind me much more unusual than the federal proceedings where he hasn't been able to do that. what i think will happen is that chris kise will take another swing at allowing donald trump to speak. this is clearly a situation in which the client is driving the request. in fact, even the language that kise uses later in the email chain becomes increasingly

trumpy, down to the capitalization. i think you'll see that request. you'll see a tussle back and forth. ultimately, donald trump will not be allowed to speak, is my prediction. nonetheless, he'll make very good use of the cameras right outside that courthouse that the new york judges permitted to exist. i think that was a major mistake. i'll be interested to see when alvin bragg gets to try his case against the former president in criminal court down the street, perhaps in march, depending on whether judge tanya chutkan's case is allowed to go forward, whether those conditions will be allowed to exist down the street. i predict the answer will be no. >> okay. lisa, we've got so much to keep track of in terms of donald trump's legal cases. let's look ahead to next week and another e. jean carroll defamation case. some new rulings from the judge in that case about what donald trump and his team can and cannot introduce. >> yeah, that ruling, willie, has a lot to do with what has

already been litigated in the case. remember, this is the second around. there are identical parties. there is a legal doctrine that holds if two people were previously in course together, had the fair and full opportunity to litigate identical issues, you don't get a second go-around. that's part of what the order is about. what is also important about the order is what can come in and not just what can't. judge kaplan ruled earlier this week the "access hollywood" tape can come in. because it is evidence of trump's state of mind and this lifelong habit of misogyny. mika will be interested in knowing that, in a footnote, judge kaplan provides the dictionary definition of misogyny to illustrate what he thinks the jury would learn from understanding the "access hollywood" tape as part of a pattern of donald trump's treatment and attitudes toward women over time. >> the judge saying that trump cannot argue that e. jean carroll fabricated her story. a lot to keep track of.

this is just the cases in new york. former litigator, msnbc -- >> welcome to my head. >> we're grateful you have it all in there. we appreciate it. msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, thank you. mika. >> that's a lot goingjoining th washington, we have the chief white house correspondent for "new york times," peter baker. and staff writer at ""the new yorker,"" susan glasser. and mike allen of "axios," joining, as well. >> chris christie dropped out. >> the former new jersey governor announced he is dropping out during a town hall event in new hampshire. he told supporters there is no longer a clear path to the nomination for him. this as nikki haley has been gaining ground among voters in the granite state. while christie has not endorsed any candidate, he says he is still working to make sure donald trump does not get elected again.

>> i know, i can see it from some of the faces here, that i'm disappointing some people by doing this. people who believe in our message and believe in what we've been doing. i also know, though, it's the right thing for me to do. because i want to promise you this, i am going to make sure that in no way do i enable donald trump to ever be president of the united states again. and that's more important than my own personal ambition. >> ahead of his announcement in new hampshire yesterday, chris christie was caught in a hot mic, appearing to say that nikki haley is not going to beat trump and ron desantis is getting nervous. the comments came while christie was offstage and could clearly be heard on the event's livestream. christie's campaign co-chair in new hampshire, wayne mcdonald, tells nbc news, he was the person the former governor was

talking to take listen. >> i mean, look, she's spe $68 million so far just ontv. spent $68 m to far. $59 mli by desanti we spent 12. i mean, who is punching above their weight, and who is getting a return on their investment? you know? she's going to get smoked. you and i both know it. she's not up to this. >> she hasn't even -- >> she's still 20 points behind trump in new hampshire, right? >> yeah. >> and he's going to carry out, right? >> yes, oh, he's -- desantis called me, petrified that -- >> he's probably getting out after iowa. >> as a politician on a small level at one time, you never want, like, a hot mic. people just -- i'm serious, people just talk. >> yeah. >> people just talk. you catch somebody on a hot mic, and what he says about nikki haley or whatever, that's a guy who is bruised. he's getting out of this campaign. politics is a really tough

sport. some people take off. some people don't. nikki haley has taken off. ron desantis didn't. chris christie didn't. there are bruised egos there. i don't see an impact in the hot mic. but what about christie getting out of the race? what is your thoughts on all of that? >> the question is whether those voters go to haley in new hampshire, right? he is minimally supported across the country, doesn't matter too much. >> i think they do in new hampshire, right? >> he does have new hampshire, double digits, about 12%, something like that. all of those or two-thirds go to haley, it is a solid second, maybe even catching up to trump. maybe her expectations are going to go too high. this keeps haley from being overestimated and then suddenly, a strong second place showing no longer seems impressive. obviously, that helps her. >> susan glasser, first of all, our friends at comcast want to thank you and --

>> yeah. >> -- and peter for consolidating expenses, coming in at the same time. one uber, two great minds. [ laughter ] >> it's all about the uber. >> susan, this is, though, coming together. if there is any chance to slow donald trump down, chris christie had to get out of the race. it is something he's been hearing from supporters even for weeks now. >> well, that's right. essentially, he was sort of called on his own bluff in a way, right? he says he is running to stop donald trump from being president. he has no chance himself of being president. at a certain point, the longer you stay in, everybody understands the lesson clearly of 2016, right? this crowded field enables a minority candidate to come and use that minority and still win the republican nomination. christie, i think, had to do it. his comments suggest that he is not going to be endorsing nikki haley or ron desantis anytime soon. i think we can be clear on that.

look, the numbers suggest this is, even for haley, the longest of long shots, right? >> right. >> in the end, it's still the moment of decision, right? basically, we're just a few days away from donald trump becoming, for all intents and purposes, the de facto nominee of the republican party. republicans have just a few days left in reality to stop donald trump from once again being the nominee of their party. i don't think it'll happen, but there's a chance that it could. >> willie, it is interesting that you have the calendar the way you have the calendar. donald trump, actually, you know, people in new hampshire think that donald trump actually could lose to nikki haley, and there's a month between new hampshire and south carolina. think about the meltdown that donald trump will go through that month of just being called a loser every single day if he

does, in fact, lose new hampshire. i think that's the sort of -- the way that you actually find a pathway into the death star that blew it up. when it looks like there is no way. in this case, our darth vader just actually walks into the center of the death star for 30 days, presses the button, and blows his campaign and everybody around him up. >> turn off the radar, just use the force to get in there. >> exactly. >> that is exactly the plan from the haley campaign, which is, okay, now we think we can get a whole bunch of chris christie supporters. we think maybe we eke out a victory over donald trump in new hampshire. the story of this primary changes completely, rolling into her backyard, of course, in south carolina. always interesting, joe, to hear from "the wall street journal" editorial page, the paper of record for conservatives. very clear this morning, "christie's good deed for the

gop." i'll read a couple lines. mr. christie's most important contribution is takinghe truth, saying people would be making a grave mistake to nominate donald trump for a second term. quote, "republicans deserve a real nomination fight, not the coronation of a former president who could not win re-election. mr. christie's departure has helped that prospect," joe. that's from "the wall street journal." >> the line, "a former president that could not win reelection." you know, it is very interesting that just even this past week, it's interesting, you know, a couple days ago, i heard campaign people saying, "oh, there's no way joe biden could ever win." a week goes by, and people go, "pretty good speeches on friday and monday. that pennsylvania poll is interesting. wait a second. seniors are breaking strong for joe biden." suddenly, everybody is in flux.

nikki haley -- again, we don't know what will happen between now and new hampshire. then the long, forever month for donald trump if haley ends up winning new hampshire. i'm sorry, i still think this -- i won't say it is wide open, but "the wall street journal" editorial page, the takeaway line that most republicans should know in their heart is, they're going to nominate a guy who can't win. how do we know this? he lost in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. they actually think that the eighth time will be the charm? >> the top of the show when you were talking about the former president's remarks about taking credit for the abortion decision, the fall of roe, a comment that the second gentleman, doug emhoff made behind the scenes, dobbs and democracy. the abortion case and democracy.

that's what the biden team thinks they have in their back pocket. by the time we get to election day, the war, they hope, will be in the rear-view mirror. the economy will be so good, people can't deny it. abortion, as we've seen in the midterms and the fact that people, especially centralist voters, will they vote for donald trump? biden supporters are convinced they will not. >> i'll tell you, jonathan lemire, always like to have three things to run on. dobbs, democracy, and dough. i had to find a "d," money in people's pockets. >> it's okay. >> for a year that, if you look at the numbers where they're supposed to go, they're actually going to be much stronger than a 1984 when we heard about ronald reagan's morning in america. reagan got 49 states. but you add on top to have that, and i'm serious when i say this, you add on top of that weirdos,

insurrectionists, and freaks. you look at the clown show in the republican house. the clown show, like, that scares off voters in wisconsin, michigan, arizona, nevada. look at the clown show there. donald trump this past week, willie laid it out, he bragged about terminating a 50-year right for women last night. this past week, he said he could use s.e.a.l. team 6 to execute political opponents. nobody could do anything about it. >> no consequence. >> he'd have immunity. he started a birtherism conspiracy theory against nikki haley, promoting that. he attacked abraham lincoln for not caving to slave holders and keeping america half free, half slave. we could go on and on. and he told senior citizens, in effect, he wants their 401(k)s wrecked. he wants their retirement accounts wrecked. he wants the economy to be destroyed on joe biden's watch

so he can get re-elected. that's one week. if i was a democrat, i'd say, please, jesus, let him win. >> democrats for a while, they see the economic numbers, the polling that doesn't give joe biden much credit for i. theyit. they think it can turn around. the timing next year could be just what the president needs as he heads into the stretch run of the re-election campaign. they've upped this argument of contrast between biden and trump. i won't repeat what you laid out, but the biden team is pointing to it. when voters pay attention, and polling backs up that most voters aren't paying attention yet. the election is in november. the majority of elections don't think the final choice going to be biden versus trump. you know, biden is too old. trump will be in jail.

whatever it might be. they think when they do realize that it is a or b, trump or biden, enough people will say, we can't go back to trump. we can't go back down that path. it is too much turmoil. the republican chaos in the house, more interested in hunter biden porn than funding israel or border security. there's so much there for this campaign. the biden campaign to use. as far as christie goes, we'll see. him dropping out is the one thing that could potentially put new hampshire in play, which might give us a gop primary. trump will win monday in iowa and will win big. the only question then is, does desantis survive to the following week? does he make it to the granite state? then what do we get if it is a binary choice? trump and haley and maybe a diminished desantis? haley likely drawing the christie support, hot mic moment aside, if she can make a stand and win it or come close, maybe,

joe and mika, maybe we'll have a race heading to south carolina. polls do suggest that's trouble for haley, too. >> donald trump promised this week bedlam if he is convicted in the federal cases, promising political violence. normal americans don't want that either. we don't want violence in our streets. one note, joe, kudos to jonathan lemire for getting through the emotions here with that excellent analysis, choking back tears, because adam schefter just reported that bill belichick, after 24 years and six super bowl titles with the new england patriots, is out in new england. the era is over. >> wow. >> jonathan lemire. >> six super bowl titles, nine appearances. two plus decades of dominance. the greatest run any nfl coach had with any franchise. the quarterback next to him there deserves equal credit. this was coming. you know, i think a lot of patriots fans -- some were ready for this. it seems like, though belichick a good coach, the gm part of the job seemed to pass him by.

the team has been disappointing since brady left. there's no doubt belichick, the coach, was not the same once he didn't have the greatest quarterback of all time lining up under center for him. >> jonathan lemire, i have to interrupt you. did you just say, yeah, belichick was a good coach? did you say that? >> i said he was -- >> the most boston fan of all time. he will, like nick saban, will one of the great coaches in nfl history. >> he is the greatest. >> you in a throwaway line, talking about things, go, yeah, belichick was a good coach, and -- i mean -- >> still a good coach. >> that's the difference between an alabama fan and -- >> okay. >> i think my issue was he'd really slipped in terms of the general manager part of the job. he was doing both things. >> okay. >> he couldn't do that anymore. he was a great coach. i will miss him. i suspect he is not done. i think he finds another job somewhere else. >> maybe the tide. >> belichick to tuscaloosa. coming up, florida governor

ron desantis will join us fresh all last night's debate against nikki haley in iowa. just four days away for the first in the nation caucuses from iowa. plus, speaker emerita nancy pelosi will join the conversation live in studio. and my exclusive interview with first lady dr. jill biden. we talked about the state of her husband's campaign. we hosted a know your value event in the east room. we're going to bring you that tomorrow. we talked also about her husband's age, the attacks on her family, and what her goals are for the next four years. >> you actually asked her, is he too old to be president? >> we went there. we'll bring it all to you, straight ahead on "morning joe." he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

do you like that bone? i got a great price on it. did you see my tail when that chewy box showed up? oh, i saw it. sorry about the vase. can we just say vase like normal people? fine. i always wonder what it would be like to have a tail. maybe you did one time. maybe a thousand years from now, i'll be tailless using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. i'm pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years ... vase ... pets aren't just pets. they're more. ... vase ... shop and get a $30 egift card through january 14th. at chewy.

why choose a sleep number smart bed? shop and get a $30 egift card through january 14th. because no two people sleep the same. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number settings. it's so smart, it actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side for your ideal sleep temperature, and effortlessly responds to both of you. for your best sleep, night after night. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. ends monday. shop for a limited time and sleep next level.

only at sleep number. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. softness. quality. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order.

power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley. secretary of state antony blinken is wrapping up his trip to the middle east, urging

israel again to scale back its military operation in gaza. while the idf says the new phase has begun, parts of southern and central gaza are being hammered by air strikes. this comes as the head of israel's intelligence agency is vowing to do whatever it takes to eliminate, as he put it, anyone involved in the october 7th attacks. nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. what will it take in the end for israel to stop the war, if they have intentions to do so? >> reporter: willie, i don't think it'll take pressure from secretary blinken. i don't think that is going to make the crucial difference. here's why, because israel has not achieved the war aims that it, itself, set out, call it dismantling hamas, removing its capability, removing hamas all together. it hasn't achieved that. now, yes, it is under huge international pressure with the case from south africa in the

hague as an example, that case is happening right now. yes, there is the danger of regional escalation with the houthis in the red sea and the potential that the u.s. and other countries will hit the houthis inside yemen as a result of that. that kind of extraordinary escalation. but, fundamentally, israel, as i say, has not achieved what it says it set out to achieve. in a piece for nbcnews.com, we lay out the history of israel's targeted assassination campaign and then ask whether, in fact, times have changed. our understanding is, for example, the israelis will not target hamas leadership in places like qatar and turkey. think about this, israel, up until now, does not appear to have even found the leader of hamas' military wing.

tens of thousands have been killed say the united nations and gaza's hamas-run health ministry. among them, thousands of women and children. and thousands of hamas fighters are dead, too, say the israelis. yet, one man is still alive according to hamas, its leader, yahya sinwar. if israel had located him, it'd likely say so. israel's failure to find sinwar and others in the hamas high command is one reason its pledge to dismantle hamas is far from fulfilled, meaning peace may be a long way off. we travelled to beirut, lebanon, to where, last week, the hamas second in command died in a drone strike. israel has not admitted it is behind the hit, but finding al-srouri would have required a spy operation. this storeowner said he was

amazed hamas was there. you never saw anyone living there? "not one time," he says. there, the hole in the roof where the munitions broke through before exploding, sending shrapnel through the street. this car incinerated. a textbook, targeted assassination that risked rill killing many civilians. israel's attempt to kill the palestinian leader, arafat, in lebanon and beyond, called operation salt fish. after 11 israeli athletes were killed at the munich olympics, it tracked down the terrorists involved with deadly results. but israel has also often slipped up. in 2010, the assassination of a hamas leader in dubai caused international uproar when the killers, in disguise, were caught on hotel cameras. now, the heads of israel's intelligence agencies, mossad

and shinbet, are vowing to hunt down the leaders. a person familiar with the israeli government thinking says qatar and turkey have unofficial immunity from strikes against hamas leaders there. foreign diplomats and former u.s. officials agree. with hamas still holding hostages, israel would be reluctant to undermine a communication channel through qatar. we traveled to the capital, doha. many of this official's family in gaza have been killed, seemingly in strikes. >> he is expecting at some time to be targeted. >> including you? >> including me. >> reporter: he claims efforts to keep the hamas leader and mastermind of october 7th alive is just like the u.s. protecting its president. >> i am sure the security instructions for someone like joe biden is not the security

instructions for you. >> reporter: is sinwar still in gaza? >> this is the last information i have. >> reporter: israel's hunt for the hamas high command is pivotal. they've accused hamas as using civilians as human shields, as has the united nations, and those who study hamas say they'll hold on to hostages simply to protect its leaders. hamas says it won't hand over all the hostages without a cease-fire. israel, caught between a deepening humanitarian crisis in gaza, with an escalating civilian death toll, and the fear among some that to stop fighting while the hamas leadership is still in place will look like a defeat. here's the point, guys, you can argue that benjamin netanyahu wants the fighting to continue to protect his political career, but you can also argue that, actually, far more fundamental to that is israel itself, after october 7th, hasn't achieved their goals. think about this, joe and mika.

say israel declares a cease-fire, says, we're done. very quickly, you might see sinwar, the leader of hamas, on television declaring victory. i think you'd see people on your show and writing saying, well, what was this all for? clearly, given the agony in gaza, there are going to be people saying, what was this all for no matter what happens. but i think that, ultimately, for israel right now, despite all the international calls, despite pressure from the white house, this fundamental question still isn't answered after october 7th. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you so much. you know, katty, i remember watching the towers fall. when they fell, sickening feeling for the people inside. and i had a sickening feeling understanding what that meant. we were at war, and we were not going to stop until we did our best to wipe out al qaeda and

kill osama bin laden, when we figured out who did it. in this case, the same thing on october 7th. i mean, sickening for just the horrid things done to jewish women and to men and grandmas and children. >> continuing to happen to hostages. >> continuing to happen to hostages even now. you just knew, israel is not going to back down. they're not going to back down until hamas is destroyed. the u.n. can have whatever hearings it wants to have. they're not going to stop. we got confirmation of that in a recent poll that showed only 15% of people, israelis, want benjamin netanyahu to stay on. only 15%. at the same time, the overwhelming majority wants the war to continue until hamas is wiped out. the feeling inside of israel is no retreat, no surrender, we cannot live beside terrorists.

>> yeah, i mean, there are almost no voices in israel since october 7th that are prepared to say they will do anything but carry on prosecuting this war. i had an interesting conversation yesterday with a u.s. senator who just returned from the region there. he said, the problem is, america after 9/11 committed to destroying al qaeda and spent billions of dollars and took 20 years odd trying to do so and actually hasn't destroyed al qaeda because the idea carries on existing. that political conversation is not happening in israel, what happens beyond this bombing of gaza? what does the future look like for co-existence with the palestinians? the more they prosecute this war, the longer they give this ideology legs, to some extent. there are, whatever it is, 25,000 people in gaza who have lost a mother or brother or child or family member. they will commit themselves, those people, to the destruction of the state of israel. we saw what happened in lebanon

after the 1980s. you have a generation of people. the frustration, i think, and peter, you know this, for the white house, and speaking to the senator yesterday, is that that political conversation is not being entertained in israel at the moment. without that political conversation, israel's security will not be guaranteed. >> quite the opposite. in fact, netanyahu -- >> they're making the situation worse. >> -- is politically wounded by the failure to stop october 7th. he is using this argument to maintain his right-wing coalition. he is saying, i am the only one standing between you and joe biden and a two-state solution, cl you do not want. joe biden says, of course, you have to have a two-state solution in order to get resolution there. that's -- there's no middle ground at the moment. that's why secretary blinken is there. he is trying to find a way forward beyond the bombing, beyond the warwarfare, to say, can we get the region involved, where do we go next, and how can

we create a different reality israel will accept? >> it's not surprising that, susan, right now, israelis don't want to talk about a two-state solution. they don't want to talk about living next to palestinians right after this has happened. the same time, for america, that's the only reality. for our arab allies, that's the only reality. for our european allies, that's the only reality. there has to be a two-state solution. but at the same time, israel, the idf, mossad, they have to -- forget about the idea, they have to hunt down the people who did this. for those of us old enough to remember munich in '72, we remember what happened afterwards. the israelis made sure, however long it took -- >> well, that's the -- >> -- they'd track them down. >> that's the key point, isn't it? however long it took.

i think, you know, you have this political gap opening up, but, you know, i remember interviewing david petraeus literally within a day or two of october 7th. he made the point that israel has put itself in a risky position here. it's outlined a maximalist goal for this campaign. you know, defining victory, how can israel define victory right now? not only, i think it was an excellent report, pointing out that they haven't gone after -- been able to find the real leadership of hamas. what is an end point that anyone can imagine that seems reasonable? i remember reporting after speaking to a senior biden official who had been on these initial trips to the region, who said, you know, the israelis are talking about months or even years of conflict. that is so different than the expectations here, i think, which are warped expectations in washington and in the american political class, this idea that you're going to turn the war on and off. they're not going to be doing

that until they have achieved a totally different state of security with hamas. right now, that doesn't seem anywhere close to being achieved. >> mike is going to stay with us. peter, before you go, i just wanted to know if there was any update in what you're hearing about the situation surrounding the questions about defense secretary lloyd austin going pretty much mia. >> is he going to survive? >> i think he will at this point. i mean, i think the view in the white house is, you know, very frustrated, very baffled. it was an unnecessary ccrisis. >> no good answers. >> they don't think it was malicious. their view of it is, austin as a soldier, who hasn't made the full transition to civilian government, thought he was taking one for the team by not advertising his problems. didn't want to make do ash it was -- it was the opposite, of course. >> a lot of us have been here for a long time. what sec-def is naive enough in

the nuclear chain of command -- and i respect the general. >> so much. >> i think he is doing a great job. the sec def, nothing but great things to say about his work. i'm obviously concerned about his health right now. that said, when you're in the chain of command and you just disappear, please tell me one s sec def you've known who would have done this. >> none. they learned a couple days ago he had this surgery under an shia. the president didn't know what the surgery was about. >> they were describing it as elective surgery. >> again, we're all i know we're all very concerned about his health. also, i've read people talking about, susan, that some people

are private. they don't tell things to companies. i totally understand that. my business is not your business or anybody else's business. unless i'm secretary of defense. then, i'm serious, it's everybody's business. it starts with the president of the united states. it is just as i couldn't fathom, how a general would talk to a "rolling stone" reporter and trash barack obama. the second i read it, we said on this air, we knew it was over. it had to be over. there's just some things you can't do in the chain of command. i'm not disrespecting secretary of agriculture or secretary of commerce or even the treasury secretary. but if you're sec def, you can't go quiet in the middle of two hot wars. it can't be done. >> look, i find the spin that he just doesn't understand politics

to be mystifying. this is a matter of national security. it has nothing to do with, you know, the scrutiny of public life. it is just a basic national security matter. number one, he is in the nuclear chain of command, as joe pointed out. also, like, the days after days of missteps, the lack of transparency with the president of the united states, while putting out -- taking the time to put out a statement over the weekend saying he was going to have more transparency when he hadn't told his own boss about a cancer diagnosis. this is like the own goal that, you know, if it was a script line on "veep," we wouldn't have imagined it. >> also, who is around him. >> mike? >> if he survives politically in office, something that some close to the president pointed out to me, is the president has a real affinity for cancer survivors. he's going to make this as a human -- >> biden is super loyal. still. >> doesn't like changing staff. he is proud of the fact he

hasn't changed staff. >> confirm a new secretary this year? >> good point. >> susan glasser and peter baker, you can get your uber now. thank you. coming up, neal katyal joins the table. also, the markets are mixed before the bell. ahead of a key report on inflation due out later this morning, we'll bring you the numbers when they come across and get insight on the data from stephanie ruhle and andrew ross sorkin. plus, a live report from capitol hill following a bitter and partisan day in the gop-led house. "morning joe" is coming right back. every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food.

developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect

everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy.

these underwear are period-proof. and sneeze-proof. and sweat-proof. they're leakproof underwear, from knix. comfy & confident protection that feel just like normal. with so many styles and colors to choose from, switching is easy at knix.com when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's going to cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. i found the cheaper price with singlecare! yes, you did. see. give it a try. go to singecare.com or download the free app today.

a beautiful shot of washington,

d.c. last june, the supreme court struck down affirmative action in college admissions. now, some conservative groups are pushing to expand the court's decision to the private business sector, with lawsuits against several companies. that includes progressive insurance and the small business resource platform hello alice, for offering a $25,000 grant to ten black-owned businesses. the defendants are asking a federal judge to dismiss the case. joining us now, neal katyal who is representing hello alice in the lawsuit, and the president of hello alice, elizabeth gore. first of all, just explain the concept of hello alice, which i think i did. if and give them the access to capital they need, to employ millions of people in this country, and most of them are your coffee shop owner, your dry

cleaner, your child care center, and what they have to have is capital, and sometimes people of color, u.s. veterans, the first capital they get are small business grants. they're an essential part of our economy. >> right, and sometimes it's hard to get access to capital. i have talked about that, with women often. there's organizations that serve women, and so tell us about this case, and what exactly the impact it's having. >> so the supreme court last year struck down as you said, affirmative action in university admissions. they were very careful to limit their holding just to that. lots of private companies, and it's been a long conservative tradition to let companies do what they want when it comes to affirmative action programs, but what steven miller from the trump administration and others have done is they've gone around the country waving that supreme court decision on education and saying, now you must get rid of affirmative action. >> where does money come from though? where does hello alice's money

come from? >> we have amazing donors who are corporate. we have private individuals. it's our own money, and what's important -- >> any federal money? or government money? >> no. >> steven miller is telling you what to do with your own money? >> it's my god given right to decide where we grant that money to. >> it's up to americans to decide who you want to help. this is preposterous. i got to say, if you were to say, we get a lot of government grants, i would have been, like -- it's your money. it's donors' money, and you as an american citizen are deciding you want to help certain people. this is preposterous. >> if i decide we want to give, which we have, $40 million to small businesses, and whether it is, you know, brian johnson of motorcycles in texas or it's alicia grable who happens to be

african american in detroit, that's my god-given right. >> is steven miller's suggestion that -- if i decide -- or if my children decide or i give my children money to contribute to charities, and they decide they want to contribute to the naacp, is steven miller going to sue my 15-year-old son next? it's the same argument. it's the same, that we can't give money to people we want to give money to. >> yeah, and given his judgment, i suspect that is the next case. i don't know, but you know what he goes around saying is the country's moved on from affirmative action. people don't want it anymore showing polls and things like that, but he hasn't been able to persuade the hello alices of world. he's marching into federal court to try to do what he's never been able to do. >> isn't that the -- the most anti-capitalist, the most unconservative thing to do? >> it truly is.

>> to tell individual what is they cannot do? it's your money. you can't give it to people you want to give it to to help. >> we're out of houston, texas,and one of the dreams i had always had, is once our company got bigger is to give back to other companies. >> right. >> these are companies that are creating jobs. >> right. >> millions of jobs, and 99% of businesses in this country are small and they depend on these grants as a new source of capital, especially u.s. veterans by the way. >> yeah. >> which are being very impacted by all this legislation, this litigation. it's very, very, very preposterous. >> so where does it stand right now legally? >> they've filed the lawsuit. we're going to respond to the lawsuit, and then there will be an oral argument which we look forward to conducting before the court. >> yeah. do you expect a fairly quick resolution of this? >> no because whatever happens in the trial court, it will undoubtedly be appealed to the court of appeals and perhaps

taken to the united states supreme court. it's years away from resolution, but the court so far has created a space for these types of programs to exist, and so hello alice can still operate right now. >> even with the supreme court, it looks like a losing case, right? >> i think so, yes. this supreme court has police race neutrality, supports things things like government funds and things, but these are private companies doing what they want with their money. >> what would happen to these companies and, in fact, more important, the people who are employed by these companies if they are no longer allowed to get the grants that you are giving them? >> so what people don't get is most people in their first 24 months of starting a small business, grants have been around for 50 years, and it's a great mechanism for them to start. so if i'm a u.s. veteran and i just got back from being deployed, i have not built up a strong credit score or a woman who's been in a care economy, or maybe i'm an african american

who has had generational wealth gaps, these grants are critical. our company is small, but there are $100 billion in grant that is go out every year. if that mechanism stops, your mainstream could be halted. those players may not be able to give jobs. this is a really, really important case that can impact millions of people every day. >> all right. >> let me ask really quickly. >> we have to go. top of the hour. >> what do you think will happen in new york in the civil trial? >> i think it's looking terrible for donald trump. remember, you know, he's already basically been found guilty of inflating the assets and so on. i assume that's what you are talking about. also, the jean carroll trial, the judge forbade him of presenting much of the defense next week given what a jury has found. a jury found he was guilty of sexual abusing jean carroll. both are looking very bad. >> i would guess you have no

doubt the supreme court is going to throw out a claim for immunity that would allow him to even execute a political opponent. >> yeah. i think the technical legal term for that type of trump argument is it's a joke. i mean, a joke. it is a, you know, a travsy that someone running for president would say such a thing. >> and a frequenter of red carpets. >> yes he is. he is a star. >> who are you wearing? >> both thank you for joining us. >> thanks for the work you do. all right. at the top of the hour, nancy pelosi joins the table. we'll get her reaction to donald trump saying last night he is proud to have terminated roe v. wade. plus, my exclusive interview with first lady dr. jill biden. i asked her what would happen to this country if president biden were to lose the election. hear how she responded straight ahead on "morning joe." ponded s ahead on "morning joe.

i found a cheaper price on my meds with singlecare. did you say singlecare? i use singlecare. whenever my customers ask me if there's a cheaper price on their meds. i always tell them about singlecare. i found a cheaper price with singlecare! i know. download the singlecare app free today. the will states that mr. marbles will receive everything he needs in perpetuity thanks to autoship from chewy. i always loved that old man. and he gets the summer house. what? shop and get a $30 egift card through january 14th. at chewy.

for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it, and i'm proud to have done it. they wanted to get it back, right? you wouldn't have that. there would be no question. >> you celebrate that, yeah? >> and we did it, and we did something that was a miracle. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. it's thursday, january 11th. katty kay still with us, and joining the table, speaker emerita democratic congresswoman, nancy pelosi of california. we have so much to discuss with you this morning, but just coming off of hearing donald trump last night in the fox news town hall discussion bragging about overturning roe, or terminating -- terminating roe. >> again. >> it's, i guess, something he's very proud of, but politically, will that help him? >> well, the elections have ramifications as we know.

first of all, lovely to be with you. welcome back, katty. one of the things that he has said -- i didn't see last night as you can just well imagine, but the -- >> yeah. >> he has said that, obamacare sucks, and this is in keeping with his attitude toward the health and well-being of the american people, and a woman's right to choose is a very important part of that when, if, and how to proceed to have a family. so as we go forward in this campaign, what we're doing is making sure people are aware of that. as you may recall, in 2018 when we won, people said, oh, weren't you lucky that health care emerged as such an important issue in the campaign? i said, no. we weren't lucky. we made our own luck. >> right. >> we had 10,000 events around the country where people told their stories. it wasn't about provisions.

it was about personal experience. >> is joe biden making his own luck? >> hm? >> is joe biden making his own luck right now? >> we have to help him do that because again, elections, campaigns are about mobilization outside, and he is our centerpiece, but as we did then, we'll have thousands of events around the country with our veterans and their health care with the pact act under joe biden. this is remarkable, about women's right to choose. what it means for people with disabilities and the care act. these are economic issues too for families. it's their health andforemost, financial health as well. this is an issue for them. the cost of prescription drugs, they want to reverse what they did in the inflation reduction act to reduce the cost for prescription drugs and we want to take that to court.

we've reduced the cost of insulin from $500 or $600 a month for seniors on medicare to $30 a month. they want to reverse that. health is a central issue to us. a woman's right to choose is essential to that. >> i think it was one of your most incredible achievements -- >> for all of us. for all of us. >> the aca. as of yesterday, we had the hhs secretary on talking about record enrollment, 20 million people. >> yes. >> are they all democrats? no republicans like it? i don't think so. >> no. >> i think people like their health care. >> i'm curious. we go down the issues, and if you are talking about health care -- >> yeah. >> americans like the affordable care act. donald trump says it sucks. he wants to destroy it. americans like women, making decisions about their health care. if a 10-year-old girl is raped in ohio, they don't want politicians telling that girl what to do. they want the parents and the priests, the pastors, health

care people to help them out. i mean, you look at schools. parents a afraid to send their kids to school because of guns. donald trump wants more guns on the street of america. you keep going down it. he's talking about executing generals. he's talking about wanting the economy to be destroyed this year. >> yeah. >> wrecking seniors' retirement. how is this race even close? >> you wonder how people could even -- in some places he's held as a messiah. if obamacare sucks, he wants to be a dictator for at least a day, but anyway not to talk so much about him, he's what he is, but to talk about what it means in peoples' lives when he talks about bragging about overturning roe v. wade, and this is something young people care about. i talked about the election. before the election, i'm talking politics now because yesterday the republicans couldn't pass a rule on the floor. so we had -- they dismissed us

all for the day so i had a chance to do politics. >> have you ever seen any congress run as badly as this republican house over the past year and a half? >> i haven't, no. over the 35 years i have been there. it's pretty terrible, but in any event, again, we have to win. just win, baby, as i say. so the -- in the last election, all the pundits said we're going to leave 30, 40 seats and i knew that was wrong. i thought we could hol house as a matter of fact because of what you just named, joe. that list. guns, climate, a woman's right to choose, democracy. democracy. people said, oh. democracy doesn't matter. roe v. wade's in the rear-view mirror. no, it wasn't, but we could see that in each and individual race. we ended up losing five in new york which we will win back, and we won the house. >> right. >> but the people -- freedom. we talk about democracy, and

that's an important value. it's everything, but it's personal too. it's personal about your personal freedom, about having a family, if you are lgbtq. it's about having the freedom to engage in business. the previous segment is ridiculous. >> it's unbelievable. >> i mean, that is so ridiculous that they wouldn't want the best in our country, and the best means to have the beautiful diversity of america working in our private sector. >> i would say that president obama owes you flowers for the rest of your life with the affordable care act. you did such a heroic job for him. we're talking about it being close in terms of the presidential election, but it's also close in terms of house districts. you know this when you go around the country. how do you account for that when you look at this particular congress, which is spectacularly failed to achieve really any legislation of importance for american people? what do you hear from people

when you go around the country about why it's so close? >> well, the -- again, we are now in an election season. we weren't before, and now it's time for us to make the case and for them -- people will pay more attention now. they haven't been paying attention last year, but they have to -- they have to know. you've heard me say a million times. lincoln said public sentiment is everything. with it you can accomplish almost anything, but without it, practically nothing, but for sentiment to prevail, people have to know. now we have to have their attention. young people who are ambivalent about what comes next have to know what it means in terms of a woman's right to choose, lgbtq, what it means about the planet, what it means about guns. these are issues that they care about, and they have to know the difference between democrats and republicans. >> get their news from the right place. >> speaker pelosi, you've written a new piece for "the atlantic," and it's entitled "what january 6th made

clear to me." you wrote in, part, january 6 was another perilous moment for our democracy. it was an attack not just on our capitol, but on our constitution. and some who carried out the assault under lincoln's dome were carrying the confederate flag. but on that dark night, congress again projected america's strength and resolve. now, three years later, we are called on to do the same. the threat to our democracy is real, present, and urgent. the parable of january 6 reminds us that our precious democratic institutions are only as strong as the commitments and those entrusted with their care. we all share a responsibility to preserve american democracy, which lincoln called "the last best hope of earth." and i guess -- i appreciate those words. they're inspirational, and i want to know how you forge ahead and stay positive because this has become incredibly personal, especially with your husband being brutally attacked.

we're seeing what happened with hunter biden on the floor of the house and in the oversight committee yesterday, just the cruelty of it. >> yeah. >> the danger of it. it's a different game now. >> it is different, and i think that we have to win this election to leapfrog over this. this cannot be the path that we are on for our country. we want to attract young people, to be involved in politics, more women to be involved in the rest. >> yeah. >> but they tell me sometimes as i cannot risk my family in that regard, especially with small children, but it is -- it's an opportunity. thomas payne said the times have found us at that time. we think the times have found us to counter, what's his name who used to be in the white house and the things that he's saying, the messiah, the -- i don't even have to go into it. let's be in a positive place. we have been blessed with a great president. joe biden is a great president.

what he did in the first two years working together in the house and senate. the democrats take some credit for it because so many things we did were without one republican vote. sometimes we got a few 13 for infrastructure, for chips in that. >> right. >> but in all that we did for climate, all we did to lower the cost of prescription drugs, not one republican vote, but he has been great, and he has a vision for our country that is consistent with what our founders had as a vision. he has knowledge -- again, it honors that vision. it honors the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform, and it, again, respects the aspirations of our children to go forward. so his vision, his knowledge of the issues, he has strategic thinking about legislating all in the head. >> right. >> in the heart, he is the most empathetic person in the -- i mean, he just really identifies with working families.

so it all comes down to the kitchen table. these are kitchen table issues. the health, the education, the well-being of the american people, what the economy means to them. what's his name says he wants the economy to crash. does he care what that means? >> right. >> to jobs. now look at joe biden. 14 million more -- more than 14 million jobs created. much of it in the private sector, but under this leadership, what he's done, unemployment going down and inflation on a lower path. we have to bring down the cost of living, and is that has an impact in people's lives. >> right. >> but we're finding out because katty asked -- we're finding out people are appreciating some of this, but they're not sure where it came from. >> right. >> so how does that message -- how do we connect that? because even conservatives -- even a conservative like gerard baker who is the editor emeritus

for the "wall street journal," winners the losers of the year. he said, sorry. i know i'm going to upset a lot of people, but as katty says all the time, america's economy, joe biden's work and america's economy is the envy of the world. how do we get that message out? >> well, again, i used to say when i was speaker, i can bake the pie, or i can sell the pie. the it's hard to bake and sell at the same time. >> mm-hmm. >> he's been working very hard, and now he has to sell it. >> right. >> he has to sell it, and again, this is a very responsible, knowledgeable, values-based person who takes his responsibilities seriously. now it's time to -- >> campaign. >> -- make the public aware of it and that's part of it. >> the pie is ready. >> i hear they're coming out of the gate. i think they're going to start really pushing hard. >> and the members are just all

revved. when you acknowledge the affordable care act, it was the courage of my members -- our members, to take the vote under the ridiculous claims that were being made, john lewis being spat at, horrible. it was all the outside mobilization, all the people who understood why it was important. thank god for the nuns. he helped us there with some in their own, shall we say, which i share, their own faith, but it is -- it is about the outside mobilization, and that's what we will engage in to have people tell us in their own words, what that means to them, and that -- >> right. >> -- resonates with other people in their own terms. >> right. >> are there republicans in the house you still feel you have good relationships with? >> yeah. there are some. a few. we are working in a good way with mike mccaul in terms of

ukraine and the rest we're anticipating that that will happen. it has to. it's some of the issues, joe, that, you know, we worked in a bipartisan way. human rights, freedom of religion, and the rest. >> right. >> we've always had some common ground with some of our republican members, and i anticipate that we will pass something on ukraine. we have to. that is democracy at stake. >> you mentioned what we used to work on, china every year. what do you make of human rights, property, et cetera, et cetera. what do you make of the guy, what's his name as you say, constantly praising president xi, speaking admiringly of president xi? of course, the report said president xi told him about the concentration camps and he was, like, oh, okay. because his people inside his

administration said he was so obsessed with getting an economic deal with china that concentration camps for 2 million wagers, and everything else just didn't matter, and he's still praising china's communist leader. >> well, it's in keeping with his praise of putin and the -- and kim jong-un and north korea, and others. he models himself after that total control and the rest, but what's funny about -- he praises xi and he uses china as a cajole. for their barriers to our products, and weapons of destruction, and dangers they pose in ai and the rest, as well as a human rights issue, the genocide with the destruction of democracy in hong kong, destroying the culture of tibet

and just basically opposing freedom of speech in their country. >> mm-hmm. >> in addition to the threat to taiwan and their dangerous aggression in the south china sea. >> right. >> on the other hand, we have to work with china on climate -- the climate issue and the rest, and i tried to say to him, let us team up with the eu. we would be the biggest market anybody could ever imagine. i mean, the united states and eu, and say to china, we want better trade policy. instead he put tariffs on the eu. >> right. >> but he used china in the campaign. >> right. >> he used it in the campaign, and then yet he praises -- and xi is worse -- i mean,a stiff competition mind you, but nonetheless, worse than a series of leaders. >> you're so right and i'm so glad you brought it up because it's something that i would guess 99% of americans don't understand, and i think a lot of

people on the hill don't understand, and donald trump doesn't understand. if you take america's economy, about $25 trillion. you take the eu's economy, $20 trillion, $25 trillion, and you add them up. that's a $50 trillion economy. you add that together. it's against china's $18 trillion. we would completely overshadow china, and yet donald trump always attacks democracies in europe. >> yeah. >> he doesn't see the power of that alliance. >> let's just win this election and not worry about what he thinks because, again, he's a danger to democracy in our country, and in other places as well. let's focus on what joe biden brings to the table. i think it's going to be an interesting year. we have a responsibility to communicate with the american people, to listen to them, to respect some of the concerns that people have. some people who vote for him are

concerned about innovation. where do they fit in? globalization. how does it affect them? immigration even though they shouldn't be afraid of it, but nonetheless, and just women, minorities, lgbtq taking leading roles. it's frightening to them. we have to impress that. >> you have democratic mayors, democratic senators, democratic governors saying, we've got to have order at the border. we have to have a sane process at the border. that seems to be a view point now accepted by most democrats, and we now have this very bizarre scene of democrats pushing for border security, and republicans pushing back. do you think they're going to take the deal they've claimed they've always wanted or are they going to reject it so they continue to demagogue the issue? >> well, immigration is a red meat issue for them.

it was for years. it has been, and certainly under the last administration, but the president has put forth over $10 billion to assist at the border. we have always been for controlling our border, for securing the border. there's never been a question about that, but how it is done, how we honor our values in terms of asylum seekers and the rest, but also how we have order there. >> right. >> when the speaker was -- made his first speech, and when he was elected, i went to congratulate him and i said, i see that you quoted ronald reagan, and i want you to be aware of ronald reagan's last speech as president of the united states. it's so beautiful. >> it is. >> this is the last speech he'll make as president, the communicator. he talked about the statue of liberty, about america being a country that is constantly

invigorated, therefore always young, always vital, and the preeminent in the world because our door was always open, and if we ever close the door, our preeminence would be diminished. it's better than that. google it. >> it's incredible. it's an incredible speech. >> he was not familiar with it, but i referred him to that, and when i speak about ronald reagan on the floor in that regard, because he did great things on immigration, and when congress passed the immigration bill in '86, i wasn't here at that time. neither were you, but he -- he said, we have to do more. >> right. >> understanding we're a nation, but on the other hand, we have to have order in all of it, and they are rejecting what the president is proposing, over $10 billion to that effect. >> of course. >> speaker nancy pelosi, thank

you. >> thank you. so happy to see you in d.c. >> the pie is ready. it's baked. go sell the damn pie. >> it's delicious. >> stop whining and sell the pie, right? >> just win, baby. >> just win, baby. coming up, brand-new polling shows a competitive race between president biden and donald trump in a key battleground state. we'll dig into the new numbers. plus -- >> your husband is 81. at the end of a second term, he would be 86. as his life partner of 46 years s there a part of you that is worried about his age and health? can he do it? >> hear how first lady dr. jill biden answered that question and many more from my exclusive interview with her straight ahead on "morning joe." g joe.

is there anyway to get a better price on this? have you checked singlecare? whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i always tell them about singlecare. it's a free app. accepted at major pharmacies nationwide. you just search for your prescription, and show your coupon in the app to your pharmacist. i just show you the coupon and

i get this price? i tell everyone about singlecare. before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check the singlecare price. it's quick and easy to use, and it's free. try singlecare for free today. ♪♪

the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yup, $1000.

so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network. give your business a head start in 2024 with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. welcome back. we have been talking about the presidential election and new polling from pennsylvania. sam and katty, i want us to talk

about this part of it, because everybody is focusing on the younger voters who right now are not moving towards him as much as they thought. they're going to come home. they just will. you look at this number though. voters 65 and older, joe biden, 60%. donald trump -- sam, nobody expected this, but we have seen this. older voters have been moving toward joe biden steadily for quite some time, and of course, as we know, older voters, they vote. >> yeah. i was picking up on this a couple of years ago. "the new york times" did a story about who was actually concerned about trump's legal troubles and if they thought they were serious, and we saw an age breakdown. 65 and older, way more concerned about it than the younger generations that kind of piqued my interest. maybe they lived through watergate and they understand the severity of it. you've seen it in poll after poll after poll, where more

conservatives, traditional republicans are backing joe biden. there's a number of theories around it. maybe the age attacks on biden are actually offending this coheart. >> i think that's a big part of it too. >> either way, this explains democrats' success in the midterms. these are the reliable voters who come out no matter what, even in off years, and they're drifting democratic. it's just a remarkable tectonic shift in politics that has kind of gone underappreciated. >> the trump campaign has always felde felt, the thing they have going against them is trump. the irony. of course, people love him, but there are things he said last night that get them worried. mark milley should be executed. it's that chaos factor that nikki haley is starting to play out in new hampshire. we keep hearing people talk about, you don't want the chaos of donald trump. if you are getting older, chaos is scary for everybody, but i think it's particularly for older people when you're feeling

more frail and fragile about the world anyway, and you're feeling wiser and you pair that with when we talked to chris koonce, there are economic numbers that are looking good for the biden campaign. have we seen that? i know the frustration in the white house that people don't feel like yet. do we give it six months? ? >> should we ask someone old and fragile? mark? >> that transition. >> mark is younger than i am. >> let me redirect that to say we also understand that when you say the stock market's higher than it's ever been, setting records, who are the biggest beneficiaries of those? >> older people. >> people who are 65 and older. they're looking at their retirement accounts. they depend on those retirement

accounts to get them through their retirement years, possibly to get them later on and a good medical end of life care. they're looking at those numbers and then they hear donald trump saying, we hope your retirement goes up in smoke because i want to get elected president of the united states. >> yeah. >> seniors hear that. it has an impact. >> and they vote. i also -- i mean, to katty's point, i mean, the chaos message, the chaos, just the sense of chaos around him is especially disconcerting to older voters like myself. i mean, i -- i do know, you know, when i get cold at night and my grandkids haven't looked in on me in a few days. >> one of the tennis balls on your walker and how do you replace it? >> the chaos of having a president like this is very unnerving. coming up, we're live from capitol hill where republicans lost control of their hearing yesterday on hunter biden.

the ongoing attacks against the president's son was the topic i discussed at the white house yesterday in an exclusive interview with the first lady, dr. jill biden. our wide-ranging conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." rsas just ahead on "morning joe." ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) with the push of a button, constant contact's ai tools help you know what to say, even when you don't. hi! constant contact. helping the small stand tall. i think i'm ready for this. heck, yeah! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. (applause) finally, we can eat. ♪ you know you make me wanna... ♪ and then we looked around and said, "wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller!" (laughter)

you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mm-hmm. cool! i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything. and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha? ( ♪♪ )

diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like... what is your glucose, and can you have more carbs? before you decide... with the freestyle libre 3 system... know your glucose and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. now the world's smallest and thinnest sensor... sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence, and lower your a1c. the number one cgm prescribed in the us. try it for free at freestylelibre.us. ♪♪

the house of representatives again covered itself in glory as two congressional committees voted along party lines to formally recommend the full household hunter biden in.com contempt of congress for defying a subpoena in the republican impeachment inquiry into his father, despite the fact he has shown up to testify. earlier in the day, hunter made a surprise appearance at the

house oversight committee hearing sitting in the outside -- audience with his attorneys for the first 30 minutes. some addressing him directly while sparring with each other. >> you are the epitome of white privilege coming into the oversight committee, spitting our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed. what are you afraid of? you have no balls to come up here -- >> mr. chairman, point of inquiry. >> mr. chairman -- >> the lady is recognized. >> if the gentlelady wants to hear from hunter biden, we can hear from him. let's take a vote and hear from hunter biden. what are you afraid of? >> hunter biden should be air force -- arrested right here right now and go straight to jail. >> i ask unanimous consent to enter information for the record? >> what's the information? state the information. >> thank you. >> i reserve the right to object. >> the minority's not provided a

copy of the material for the record. in the past, she's displayed pornography. are pornographic images allowed? >> it's not pornography. >> you're the expert. >> i'm not an expert. >> and she did, in fact, hold up a nude photograph of hunter biden in the united states house of representatives. jared moskowitz of florida pointed out the hypocrisy on this matter. >> listen. i'll make this bipartisan. i'll vote for the hunter contempt today. you can get my vote. you can get my vote, but i want you to show the american people that you're serious. here is the subpoena to representative scott perry who did not comply. i would like to enter this into the record. here is the subpoena to mark meadows. i would like to enter into into the record who did not comply. here is the subpoena to jim jordan who did not comply with a lawful subpoena. i would like to enter that into

the record. here's is subpoena to mo brooks. i would like to enter into that into the record. and here's the subpoena to mr. mccarthy who did not comply. i would like to enter that into the record. there's an amendment coming to add those names to the contempt names. show the american people that we apply the law equally, not just when it's democrats, right in it's a crime when it's democrats, but when it's trump and republicans, it's just fine. show everyone you're serious and not everyone is above the law. vote for that amendment and i'll vote for the hunter biden contempt. >> they did not vote for that. you had congressman mace screaming at hunter biden for not having the stones -- let's put it that way, to show up and testify as he's literally sitting in the room willing to testify. they don't want it to happen in an open forum like that. also chairman comer said with a straight face, hunter biden, no one is above the law in america

as they spend most of their professional lives defending donald trump against the charges against him. >> i thought it was interesting. arnold from green acres whispered that line into his ear and he repeated it. yeah. still. the smartest guy on that side of the aisle. so -- it was an old tv series. "green acres." where -- >> i don't know. >> the pig was the smartest guy in town. but anyway, you get it. >> i loved arnold. that was one charming pig. >> the smartest also in town. so first of all, nancy mace, it's just -- it has to be dizzying. i'm a reasonable person. you don't have balls. i'm a reasonable person. i just say with my boyfriend in a, you know,, like, seriously? >> right. >> we have a description for that in northwest florida. that's called the runaway beer

truck and that's exactly what she is, but let's underline the hypocrisy that jared moskowitz showed. by the way, those were all members of congress. >> yeah. >> all members of congress that were defying this. >> acting like schoolyard bullies in a revolting way. >> they said hunter biden didn't have the stones we shall say. to testify? he was there to testify. in public, but they didn't have the guts to let him testify. they did not want transparency. they did not want the american people to hear the truth. they wanted to take it behind closed doors. again, republicans shooting themselves in the political foot. >> first of all, why is it republicans don't have the guts, but hunter biden doesn't have the stones? thank you to you and willie for saying stones because this is an important distinction here. the hypocrisy is

self-explanatory. i also remember the white house saying when it was a really close -- when the house underperformed for republicans in the last midterms, they loved the idea and they saw this coming that this was going to be the circus. it was going to be front and center for the republican party, you know, sort of the sideshow to donald trump which is saying something. >> yeah. coming up, republican presidential candidate florida governor ron desantis is standing by. he joins us live from iowa on the heels of last night's debate. "morning joe" is coming right back. te "morning joe" is coming right back (avo) kate made progress with her mental health... ...but her medication caused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily td treatment for adults. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ austedo xr significantly reduced kate's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, kate can stay on her mental health meds— (kate) oh, hi buddy! (avo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in

patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts. don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine. austedo xr may cause irregular or fast heartbeat, or abnormal movements. seek help for fever, stiff muscles, problems thinking, or sweating. common side effects include inflammation of the nose and throat, insomnia and sleepiness. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ ask your doctor for austedo xr. ♪ austedo xr ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

in the words of the first lady, americans have a choice this november, leadership, or chaos. i sat down with dr. jill biden yesterday at the white house for an exclusive one-on-one interview. we discussed the state of

president joe biden's re-election campaign, her priorities as first lady, and the attacks against hunter biden and her family. >> you have been married to president joe biden for 46 years. >> mm-hmm. >> there have been senate races, three presidential campaigns, eight years of your husband serving as vice president. unthinkable personal loss, and challenge, and now democracy is on the ballot. >> mm-hmm. >> what do you think when you hear people say, well, i just can't vote for joe biden this election? what is it they may not know about him at this point especially when the alternative seems to want to change this nation so radically? >> well, you know, mika, when i was dating joe, one of the things that drew me to him was his strength, and i -- at that

point, he had been through the death of his wife and baby daughter in a car accident, and then, you know, later we experienced the death of our son to cancer. throughout all of this, you know, i saw joe as steady and calm and resilient, and actually i -- when we got here, i felt that he knew how to rebuild this country because he had rebuilt our family out of tragedy, and i think what people don't see is how hard joe works every single day, that he gets up thinking what he can do for the american people, and he does that, you know, his job doesn't end when we just have dinner together at 7:00. >> right. >> he's on the phone, and he's on the phone with leaders of foreign countries, and he's on the phone with his cabinet or he's on the phone with somebody

who's lost their home because of a tornado, or going through some personal problem. so i see that strength and that resilience and that steadiness every single day, and he's unflappable, and when i look at the man, you know, his integrity, his character has not changed, and he's unwavering. he's unflappable. >> yet another presidential campaign. this would be, what? your fourth? >> fourth? yeah, fourth. not 14th campaign. >> potentially another four years in the white house with everything you do here. does yet another one give you any pause thinking of, like, the personal health and well-being for both of you? the division in this country, the cruelty of maga republicans against your family. does any part of you once in a while think, ugh, maybe we bow out? >> you know, that's why i want

to go through yet another campaign, because i think as joe says, democracy, our freedoms are what's on the line, and so americans have a choice. they can have strong, steady leadership, someone fighting for democracy, or they can choose chaos and division. >> what do you see as your role as first lady now as opposed to a possible second term? any changes you would make? i know you have a pretty big policy platform now. >> when we came into office, i knew i wanted to work on what i've always worked on, military families, cancer and education. now i have a new initiative which is the women's health research initiative because women have been -- women's health has been underfunded always, and we need to have fairness in the amount of money that goes toward research and studying women's diseases

because, you know, women are living so much longer with chronic diseases, and that has to change and i took that to joe, and he said, yes, and signed the executive order. >> amazing. >> we're on our way. >> how have you been coping personally with the onslaught of accusations against your husband and your family, including and especially hunter as the focus of a house oversight committee hearing holding, holding him in contempt, obsessing over him -- >> yes. >> showing pictures of him during vulnerable moments in his battle with addiction on the floor of the house. this would crush any family. >> mika, i think what they are doing to hunter is cruel, and i'm really proud of how has rebuilt his life after addiction. i love my son. it's hurt my grandchildren. that's while so concerned about, that it's affecting their lives

as well. >> what do you think when you hear trump republicans calling it the biden crime family? one congresswoman, the biden crime family sold out america, marjorie taylor greene, he's a liar, he's mentally incompetent. let's not even talk about what "let's go brandon" means and u.s. senators holding signs that say that. >> what the other side and the extremists have turned this country into, i mean, we would never see things like that, say, ten years ago. >> this has got to be so different than any races you and your husband have been in. >> yes. >> scary? >> it is a little scary, not just for me and joe, but just to see what happened. look at the insurrection that

took place. i mean, it's just so hard to believe that the united states of america witnessed an insurrection. i think americans were just stunned by that. >> i guess they're being called by the frontrunner, republican frontrunner, hostages. >> or patriots. he doesn't call them what they were, insurrectionists, dangerous extremists. >> and you still want to be in the fight? >> oh, that makes me want to be in the fight even more, because we have to win. we must win. we cannot let go of our democracy. >> and if you don't? >> i don't know. >> i can't even think about it. >> no, i can't think about it. >> there are two wars on the world stage your husband is managing. there is the threat of another

trump presidency which we just talked about. he is indicted four times. he's doubling down on conspiracy theories, flouting the rule of law. literally everything is on the line. i think you just said that. this is a massive amount of physical and emotional stress. it would be on any person. your husband is 81. at the end of a second term, he'd be 86. as his life partner of 46 years, is there a part of you that is worried about his age and health? can he do it? >> he can do it. i see joe every day. i see him out, you know, traveling around this country. i see his vigor. i see his energy. i see his passion every single day. >> to those who say, i can't vote for joe biden, he's too old, what do you say? >> i say his age is an asset. >> he's wise. >> yes. he's wise. he has wisdom.

he has experience. he knows every leader on the world stage. he's lived history. he knows history. he's thoughtful in his decisions. he is the right man or the right person for the job at this moment in history. >> so democracy is on the ballot and also something has been lost in this last four years or during your husband's presidency as a result of the trump presidency and that is a woman's right to choose. how important do you think that should be for all americans voting in the next election? it feels like we've slid back. >> that is why we have to keep fighting. what joe wants to do is to codify roe. that's what we have to do. we have to keep fighting. >> are you ever hopeless?

>> no. no. i'm never hopeless. >> what do you say to people who are really scared right now? >> i would say that things are going to get better. we have to continue to fight. that's what we plan to do. >> now, i think this is really interesting, but i understand classes resumed for you. >> this morning, yes, i had to go to school for a teachers meeting. >> you still work at nova. >> uh-huh. >> paid job? >> yes. >> during the next ten months during the fight for america? >> i've done it before. i did it last time. >> why is it important? >> i have to have my career. i love teachings. i love my students. you know, i started a women's mentoring group. it's just a part of me that i just can't let go up, and joe supports me. >> what does make your hopeful

for this country? >> you know, i feel as i travel around this country the people i meet, the teachers, the nurses, you know, the moms, we all want the same thing. we all want a good life for our families. you know, we are more in common as americans than our differences. i think that's what makes me hopeful, and that's what makes me want to continue on to fight for them. >> following that one-on-one interview, dr. biden joined me for a very special know your value event in the east room with a live audience featuring women mentors and mentees. professor biden, who is the first person to have a job while serving as first lady, fielded questions about her career,

gender perceptions and women in the workforce. we'll play that for you tomorrow on "morning joe" across nbc's digital platforms and on knowyourvalue.com. coming up, we're live in manhattan where donald trump's civil fraud trial is coming to a close. we'll have full coverage straight ahead on "morning joe." e straight ahead on "morning joe." do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life

insurance, you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. i'm andrea, and this is why i switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall.

♪♪ lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. the effort can feel overwhelming. but today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. taken with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50%. so, if you feel like you're getting nowhere go with 2 doses a year of leqvio and keep bad cholesterol low. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, and chest cold. when you're ready to go from struggle to cholesterol success talk to your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio to help you lower your cholesterol. lower. longer. leqvio®

♪♪ a live look at los angeles for you. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. we have editor at the nonpartisan group protect democracy, amanda carpenter with us, white house correspondent

eugene daniels and historian jon meacham. katty kay and jonathan lemire is back with us as well. >> the guy who said with a straight face, because he's a boston sports fan, as he was talking about bill belichick, one of the great coaches in the history of the nfl, he said, well, yeah, he's a pretty good coach. the guy doesn't win the super bowl one season and suddenly, yeah, he's a pretty good coach. >> he was a great coach. he was the best coach. my complaint with him being a general manager which had really tailed off in recent years, but this is the end. i am sorry to see him go. you know, he has six super bowl championships, 17 division titles, a 24-year run of

greatness, obviously a tough couple years after brady left. his place in the pantheon is assured. there are rumors he doesn't want to retire from coaching. he's about two good years away from the all-time wins record. >> how about a rare day where you lose two goats in 12 hours, nick saban leaving alabama, bill belichick in new england. quite a day in sports. >> we talked about the death star. it's that one moment. now, let me tell you something, when alabama goes on a saturday night, what do you say? >> it's anchor down. >> anchor down!

>> we have alabama on the schedule this year. now texas and oklahoma are coming in. we're looking for more middle tennessee state and less texas in nashville. sadly, the sec is only getting stronger. tough out there. >> do you guys still play duke in the s.a.t. bowl? >> i don't think we've played them in a while. we play wake forest a lot, which is a similar matchup. >> that's a great game. go to winston-salem on a saturday night, 32,000 people in the stadium. >> tobacco row. >> anchor down. okay. we're going to get to politics now. hours before nikki haley and ron desantis -- >> can i just say, mika, here's what i think we need to do. i think we need to do a remote show. we did a remote show once from tuscaloosa. i think we need to do a remote

show from a vanderbilt game. we can go to jon meacham's club. we can all wear our smoking jackets. and then i think we need to go sort of a college game day thing for the williams versus amherst rivalry. >> that's a good rivalry. >> i have seen jon in his natural habitat in the very setting you're describing. you really need to see it up close. when it comes to having won yet another match in his men's over 80 tennis league, he's triumphant. it's amazing. >> the constitution is at risk. can't we talk about something else? [ laughter ] >> exactly. >> yeah. all right. okay. yes, the constitution is at risk. >> we won't talk about the fact

that at the bellevue country club meacham only plays people over 80. >> okay. that's his little secret. now we move on. okay. hours before nikki haley and ron desantis faced off last night on the debate stage in iowa, former new jersey governor chris christie suspended his campaign. all of this comes ahead of the critical iowa caucuses, now just four days away. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake is in des moines with the latest. >> reporter: overnight, a fiery face-off in frozen iowa, with the state's republican caucuses now just four days away. >> you're so desperate. you're just so desperate. >> reporter: nikki haley and ron desantis debating one on one in what's likely a race for second place behind the dominant frontrunner here donald trump. haley and desantis launching repeated attacks on each other's records and honesty. >> every time he lies, don't

turn this into a drinking game because you will be overserved by the end of the night. >> we don't need another mealy-mouthed politician that tells you what you want to hear just to get your vote. >> reporter: her momentum has grown in polls. >> if you can't manage a campaign, how are you going to manage a country? >> reporter: desantis belittling haley's work as a global ambassador. >> you can take the united nations out of the ambassador. >> i agree with a lot of his policies, but his way is not my way. >> he also promised record deportations. donald trump deported fewer people than barack obama did when he was president. >> reporter: earlier the gop field's most consistent critic of the former president, chris christie, announced he was suspending his long-shot campaign. >> anyone who is unwilling to

say that he is unfit to be president of the united states is unfit themselves to be president of the united states. >> reporter: christie was also caught on a hot mic backstage discussing the race. >> desantis called me,petrified. >> reporter: and making this comment, presumably about haley. >> she's going to get smoked. you and i both know it. >> reporter: donald trump seizing on that comment. >> i happen to believe that chris christie is right. that's one of the few things he's been right about, actually. >> how important was chris christie's move yesterday? >> i think it's hugely important. i think it was a noble campaign. that's probably the kiss of death for somebody like me to say that about governor christie's campaign. but he did the right thing. he went out, he made an unapologetic case that many of us believe is true.

leave that aside for a moment and realize that he did the hardest thing that any politician, any person really, can do, which is to surrender their self-interest for a larger interest. in so doing, he modeled what the former president is seemingly congenitally incapable of doing, which is he put the whole ahead of himself. was it easier because of where he was in the polls? sure. but anyone who thinks about this in human terms knows that when you get into a campaign, when you get into a project of any kind and you invest so much of yourself in it and it is ostensibly about you, it's incredibly difficult to admit particularly for a competitive person that it's over. and i think he stood up for a principle not just yesterday, but throughout the campaign. i think the mea culpas he did, i

think the speech itself is really interesting. it reminded me a good bit of what mike pence, who gave a couple of speeches in his run where he made the case that, you know, there is a right and there's a wrong, and right now the wrong is still in the leading position in the republican party. so i think what christie did is a model of what we're supposed to do in a democracy. people should watch what he talked about in terms of ambition and decision making. it was a very interesting riff, more than a riff. it was a very interesting insight about the competing tensions that all of us have to deal with. voters have to deal with it, right? there may be things i disagree with that are contrary to my interests that a given candidate may represent, but if that candidate is for the

constitution and the other fellow isn't, then i need to put my ambition aside and support the guy who's for the constitution. >> it is unusual in all the years of following presidential politics that you get a candidate that gets the timing right for getting out of the race. they all stay way too long. chris christie yesterday left at the right time if he's concerned about democracy. talk about the possibilities now for nikki haley in new hampshire. >> well, i think she has the potential to make it very interesting now that chris christie has dropped out. even though i don't think she's going to pull off the nomination to win this thing, it think it will be significant when she beats ron desantis handily in that state. what happens after trump if he doesn't win the election? it will be important if nikki

haley is number two in that race for the sheer fact that she has not bought the maga stuff hook, line and sinker. she has drawn lines on really important issues, particularly ukraine. i thought her recitation on ron desantis's position on ukraine yesterday was masterful. this is something a republican audience needs to hear. when i talk to my republican friends, they ask me what's going on with ukraine, why are we spending money there? because they just hear the negative stuff coming out of fox news. it's important for people to stand up against terrorists and against genocide. they need to hear that argument. >> trump was on fox news. isn't that kind of the problem? who was watching this versus who was watching that? it's like two different universes. >> absolutely. this is why i think it's sort of

important what meacham was saying about what chris christie said in his concession speech. the most important thing chris christie said is that the reason i made those mistakes in supporting trump all those years is because i put my ambition ahead of decision making. what i'm watching through this primary isn't really to see how nikki haley wins, but how these republicans position themselves after trump wins the nomination. are they going to, again, put their ambitions ahead of decision making? are they just going to give one speech like mike pence and quietly recede. are they going to build a pro-democracy coalition that can go the distance? maybe we need a new coalition of republicans who say, you know what, i have these values, i'm going to vote for the best person in the race when it comes to these big foundational issues to our country. >> eugene, it does seem that

most in the media, most in washington consider the republican nomination a foregone conclusion. we've actually known nikki since she was a state legislator in south carolina. we were at her first debate. she upset a lot of people, won a race that nobody expected her to win. again, i just keep going back to this. if she can win in new hampshire, then she's got a month until south carolina. she can use donald trump's own weight against him. he'll go crazy, being a loser for a month. anything's possible in politics. >> absolutely. if we've learned anything over the last six years, that's the case. i will say he's beating her handily right now in south carolina. she would have to change the way she talks about donald trump in order for that to actually work out. yesterday when they asked her

about donald trump she kind of went with this, i do things differently than he does. that's not really enough to differentiate yourself in a primary. you want the guys job, you have to actually go at him. if she takes this chris christie route and says he shouldn't be president because of all the things he's done and the possibility of him going to jail at some point, that might change things. she has to change the way she talks about him. >> i wonder whether the case that joe is making, which is that you let donald trump bring himself down. you give him that month in which he's feeling like a loser. he hates being a loser. what the trump campaign is worried about is the stuff trump says that does him damage, the things about putting milley in jail or executing milley. if he feels like he's lost something like new hampshire for a month, he has even more potential to say that kind of

thing. marco rubio tried it. it didn't work. >> you can't talk about hand size. >> let him do it. i think it's a very long shot, but i'm not sure that her suddenly taking on trump in a way she hasn't done until now would help her. >> my family is from south carolina. the electorate there has turned into a trump electorate. it's not really a nikki haley electorate. the kind of things he would say that would turn out suburban women who kind of run away from the republican party, those people aren't really in south carolina in a big way that would give nikki haley a boost without her doing something. the kind of things he's going to say if he were to lose over that month are the kinds of things that people in south carolina who are going to be voting in this republican primary are interested in. >> you know, willie, she's going to have to draw an inside straight. there's no doubt about it.

you're going to have to have legal rulings go sideways for trump. trump will do his best to destroy himself over that month. last night he was bubble wrapped politically on fox news. he still gave the glorious gift to the biden campaign when he once again bragged about terminating a 50-year right that had been taken away from women and said i'm the guy who did it. >> yeah. making the ads himself on the question of abortion, which we don't have to wonder how important it will be. we've seen how important that issue has been in the last year and a half in election after election across this country. former president trump, we're learning now, will not give the defense argument at his new york civil fraud trial. trump's lawyers asked the presiding judge if the former president could participate, but the plan fell apart after trump refused to respond to the judge's request that he would

abide by certain conditions, like not attacking the court in his closing argument. joining us from outside the court in lower manhattan, is yasmin ves sugian. >> reporter: there's going to be sparks flying in that courtroom all throughout the day. we're seeing some action behind me. i'm trying to figure out if that's actually the former president's attorneys entering the courtroom. i'm unsure about that. i did get word that donald trump left trump tower about ten minutes or so ago to make his way downtown. court is supposed to begin at 10:00 a.m. this morning. as we know, there was reporting this morning that judge engoron in nassau county had a bomb threat at his home. we don't know whether he was inside his home when that bomb threat came through. nassau county police responded there. nonetheless, court is going to

go on as scheduled beginning at 10:00 a.m. there has been a lot of back and forth over the last couple of days to whether trump was going to be able to offer his own closing remarks today. finally judge engoron said no. that's because we didn't make the deadline at noon yesterday. here is part of what he laid out when it came to parameters of what he needs to follow if he was going to offer some of his closing arguments, saying this, trump would only be allowed to speak about material facts and application of the relevant law to those facts. he also said he will not allow a campaign speech or to attack the court, the staff or ag letitia james. judge engoron said, no, it's not happening. you and i and everybody knows that doesn't mean the former president's attorneys are not going to enter this courtroom at 10:00 a.m. and argue that the

former president should be allowed to make his remarks. two hours of closing remarks from the defense team, two hours of closing remarks from the prosecution as well, and then they'll adjourn. engoron has been really tactical and very meticulous throughout this entire trial. so the expectation that he will offer a decision on fines will be within the next couple of weeks. it's not likely to happen within the next couple of days. initially the fines that were asked for by ag letitia james is at 250 million. that has been raised to $370 million. she has also requested that he be banned from working in new york city for life, banned from working as an officer or director of the new york city corporation. i don't want us to be fooled by this.

we all know this, who former president trump is and what he has based his life and his identity on over the last half century. it has been about new york real estate. it has been about his businesses here in new york city. you think about the multiple indictments, the criminal charges as well. this is going to hit really hard. i just got word from my producer that letitia james is just arriving at court. so 10:00 a.m. it looks like they're going to be up and going. >> yasmin ve sugian, thanks so much. lisa rubin reminded us this morning these are not special rules for donald trump. these are rules the judge would give anyone addressing the court. the bomb threat comes in the context of donald trump saying there's going to be bedlam in

the streets if i'm convicted on all these charges. >> becoming all too common, bomb threats, swatting incidents, other threats. this happened to jack smith in his suburban washington, d.c. home. it happened to the secretary of state in maine after she made the decision trump shouldn't be on the ballot there. and now judge engoron. we had this conversation about how law enforcement officials really fear this culture of political violence that could surround the 2024 election. january 6th was just the beginning. the threat of violence is becoming far more common place and seemingly acceptable in the hard right maga world. donald trump does nothing to dissuade his supporters and seems to outright encourage them. these threats are going to continue. one of these days, the great fear is it's not going to be just a threat, it's going to be

real. >> this is not a hypothetical. we all watched january 6th with our own eyes. when donald trump gives permission for something, it can happen. >> it really can. amanda, you're obviously focused on democracy and, like me, as a conservative, as a former republican, we look at the language that comes from my old party. bedlam. he talks about bedlam. he talks about these judges and prosecutors being traitors. he talked about executing generals that are insufficiently loyal to him. he talks about he can use seal team six to execute political rivals and he will be immune from prosecution from the courts. he talks about being retribution. he talks about being a dictator from day one. you add all of this up and it leads us where? to a bomb threat against a

judge. again, that threat grows by the day. >> i think we need to be really clear that this is political violence. the violence is here. we saw it january 6th, and it is continuing. there is this tendency on the republican side to somehow treat these as separate stories. the republican primary and the election happening and then all this stuff donald trump has to deal with. we were talking about nikki haley taking the case of donald trump and why she doesn't do it. i think it's an insult to republican voters to somehow say we can't explain this to you. are you really telling me nikki haley that you can't go to voters and say why it's bad for a president to have immunity and be able to execute his political rivals, to make threats against people who served in his administration? it's ridiculous. it's not just for the people running for president. it even comes sometimes from

well-meaning people like a mitt romney, who said last week that he thought the democracy pitch was a bust. he comes from a place of good faith, but he is just wrong on that. just because that pitch hasn't worked maybe for him, doesn't mean it doesn't work. somebody has to make it. it can't just be chris christie. >> in 2022 we heard that democracy was going to be a bust, that dobbs was going to be a bust, a red wave was coming. it was just the opposite. >> we can see how it's worked on the democratic side, but maybe republicans should try it. >> we're going to turn now to the new inflation report that was released just moments ago. the consumer price index increased 0.3% last month, a little higher than expected. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin and stephanie ruhle. andrew, break down the numbers for us. >> it's a little mixed.

it's hotter than people expected, which has people a little bit on edge about how quickly the federal reserve may start lowering interest rates. the expectation has been that they would begin lowering interest rates as early as march. these numbers might suggest that inflation is a little bit more stubborn than we thought. but when you look through the numbers and you take out food and energy, it's actually a little bit better. sometimes we overestimate how much data we're really getting. i think we're going to have to wait until next month before we have a better sense of what this means if i'm being totally square with you. >> it's just a little bit higher than expected. overall, steph, more good news if you look at the long-term. let's do the macro and not the micro. look at the numbers. you had so many people at the end of the year saying, hey, we're surprised. but the u.s. economy is stronger

than anybody expected at this point. >> absolutely. when andrew says depending on your political affiliation, you are going to decide if you love or hate this number. the truth is inflation is coming down, but it's not a straight line, it's not super fast. it's somewhat bumpy. the fed isn't saying they're not going to cut rates this year. they're still likely to cut three times. are we going to get it in march? most likely not. but there are positives. one thing that people always talk about the economy and how they feel, look at gas prices. gas prices in this country are below $3 a gallon. under joe biden's presidency, we are pumping out more oil than we have in our history. it's only going to go up in the next two years. so food costs are still expensive, mortgages and rent expensive. but gas that we're using every day to and from work, it's a

positive. so the overall economy, we are headed in the right direction. >> jon meacham, you look back to 1984, ronald reagan talking about morning in america. you look at the numbers from ronald reagan's morning in america and compare them to joe biden's economy in january of 2024. there's really no comparison. the numbers are much, much stronger. and, yes, his numbers are stronger than donald trump's. >> no one's heading toward a 49-state victory one way or the other, but you're exactly right that i suspect neutral observers are talking about how the circumstances, the conditions under which people will be voting in eight or nine months are going to be a lot more positive for an incumbent than for a challenger and particularly for a challenger

with a big, big, big democracy problem. >> stephanie ruhle and andrew ross sorkin, thank you both for your insight this is morning. historian jon meacham, editor at the nonpartisan group protect democracy amanda carpenter, thank you both as well for coming on this morning. >> jon meacham, we will see you up at vandy. coming up on "morning joe," florida governor ron desantis joins us after last night's republican primary debate. we're back in two minutes. deba. we're back in two minutes. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased

risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save.

>> would you ever allow a shutdown in the future? >> a shutdown in terms of covid? no, i wouldn't. i never did. i let the governors make their decisions. some of them, like from south carolina, you know henry mcmaster and, frankly, north

dakota, a few of them, tennessee, they didn't shut down at all. florida did shut down. ron desantis shut down, or as he's known ron desanctimonious shut the highways down, the roads down. >> donald trump criticizing florida governor ron desantis for his response to the covid-19 pandemic at a town hall last night in iowa that aired on fox news. that happened not too far from where desantis was on stage with former u.n. ambassador nikki haley at a debate that trump chose not to attend. and florida governor ron desantis joins us now from iowa. >> a lot happened yesterday. i'm just looking at this fact check from march 31st, 2020.

the headline is "trump praises former governor despite criticism of coronavirus response." he calls you a great governor. i actually know a little bit about florida. from my memory, donald trump was actually attacking you back in 2020 for not shutting the state down more. is that correct? >> yeah. look, i mean, joe, this is the number one crisis he faced as president, and he chose to defer to anthony fauci. they were running commercials in october of 2020 for his reelection bragging that he followed everything fauci said. and then donald trump's last day in office he gave fauci a commendation. he shut down florida's cruise industry and military bases. when brian kemp reopened georgia in april, donald trump went to the white house podium and

attacked him for doing that. he was saying schools should be closed. they attacked me in the summer of 2020 when florida's first covid wave and we had schools and businesses open. it's massive, massive gaslighting. he was able to do that, i guess, on fox with no pushback, which is par for the course at this point. >> your campaign last night said last night what we said today. that fox town hall meeting looked like fox news is completely in the tank for donald trump. it liked a commercial for donald trump. >> i did a town hall with them the day before, and i had, i think, a half a dozen left-wing plants, including people that rushed the stage when i was up there, which is fine. we roll with the punches, but i don't think there was very many critical questions.

incidentally, we had a debate in iowa at the same time. he was invited. he could have gone. he's not done any debates yet. i think it's because he knows he can get away with that type of gaslighting in that venue. he knows he wouldn't be able to get away with that if we were on the debate stage. he was bragging in 2020 that he shut down the greatest economy in the world. now he knows republican voters think that was a mistake, but he cannot admit he made a mistake. as a leader, if something doesn't work, you course correct. voters appreciate when you acknowledge that you got something wrong. donald trump just can't do that. >> i'm curious. do you think donald trump is up to debating? here's a guy who repeatedly says he thinks barack obama is president of the united states and that's who he's running against. he talks about world war ii. he makes all these bizarre gaffes when he gets really tired. are republicans really going to put in the general election a guy who hasn't debated once in

primary season? >> that's the thing too, joe. you go back to october of 2020, that first trump/biden debate when donald trump was the incumbent president, and biden beat him in that debate pretty soundly. now we're in a situation three or four years down the road. clearly donald trump is not the same trump from 2016. when he gets off the t teleprompter there's a lot of mistakes a lot of stream of consciousness stuff. you want a battle-tested candidate. you want somebody who's going to be able to handle all comers. donald trump, we have no idea how he would do in a debate. >> governor desantis, you mentioned the word gaslighting. isn't it also gaslighting not to really talk about the threat of a trump presidency, a second one? is donald trump a threat to our democracy? >> and we, of course, have been

talking about seal team six and his lawyers actually arguing that he could use seal team six to execute someone like you, one of his political opponents. >> well, this idea of presidential immunity has not really ever been vetted by the supreme court, but i think that admission by the lawyer of that statement, i think that lost him the case at the d.c. circuit. i think the d.c. circuit is definitely going to rule against him. then the question is, does the supreme court take that case? i made the point at the debate last night going on this road where we're going with the legal issues and the trials and january 6th being the center of the election, we're giving the democrats a huge advantage, because those are terms that the democrats would love to fight the election on. it's not going to be good for donald trump. then you may be in a situation where the fate of the republican party is determined by a jury, probably all democrat jury in washington, d.c. is that really the direction

that we want to go with all this stuff? we have a choice to make. i mean, obviously iowa is going to be exciting, because it's going to be negative 15 degrees and these are going to be the true believers that are going to come out, but that's really the stakes here. >> when you speak to voters in iowa or new hampshire, you can't speak to stolen documents that donald trump claims are his and he says he took? you can't speak to the concept of how unbelievably wrong it is to take money from foreign governments, january 6th, the insurrection, trying to overturn the election? again, i ask is donald trump a threat to our democracy? >> here's what i'd say. i think a lot of the rhetoric of donald trump, to me, a lot of that is bluster. when he actually was in power, he had an opportunity to use valid constitutional authority to take action that conservatives wanted. for example, we addressed last night at the debate, he's now saying he'll send in the military to crack down on crime

in the inner cities. you can't just do that willy-nilly. when there's upheaval, rebellion and riots like the blm, he could have send in the national guard and he didn't actually do it. i think some of it is rhetoric versus the actual reality of being a strong versus a weak president. i wish he would have leaned in more on some of these issues that he promised to do and didn't do. >> governor, good morning. let's talk about you and your campaign for a moment. i was going back this morning and looking at polls from about a year ago that had you leading in many cases in this republican primary within the margin of error of donald trump. as you sit here on the eve of the iowa caucuses, you trail by 32 points, by an average of about 50 points nationally. what is your assessment of why that has happened over the last year or so, and what do you say to your supporters who don't think you have a shot in iowa? >> my folks know that we've got

a great operation here, and we're doing it the right way in iowa. it's grinding. it's not as flashy, but we've got true believers. you've got to have tens of thousands of people committed, which we do, who are willing to go out in negative 15 degree temperatures and make their voice heard. they're going to do that. that's going to be helpful for us over the long haul. so much of this is how media is portraying. for example, donald trump's got a pretorian guard with the conservative media. if he had been debating these times, it would have put us in a great position to do a national narrative that's a little bit different. i think he's portrayed as being inevitable. the good news is when people actually get to go in there and vote, that brings clarity, and then we're going to be able to be off to the races for there. we've excited about monday

night. we have a lot of passionate supporters that are going to go out there and make their voice heard. >> good morning. i want to get your reaction to the newest headline from the race right now, which is that former governor chris christie of new jersey has dropped out of the race. he was caught on a hot mic last night recalling a conversation he said he had with you in which he deemed you were petrified. tell us what he meant by that, sir. >> well, i've served in fallujah and ramadi, so nothing about the political stuff would, quote, petrify me. i don't know where he got that. i did call him to offer him encouragement because i think he had been treated poorly with so many people demanding he was going to get out of the race. but it's all good. not going to be a big factor in iowa, because he really wasn't competing here. in that sense, we're all systems go through monday and that's our

sole focus. >> republican presidential candidate florida governor ron desantis, thank you very much for coming on the show. >> thank you so much. >> eugene, we've got iowa. how does it break negative 15 degree weather? is it the trump people that are going to come out? is it the hard core desantis and haley people? what's the general thought there? >> if you look at all of the candidates and who has the most excitement among the base, it's trump. you would assume people that like donald trump and, more importantly, want to stick it to everybody who has been saying he's going to go to jail, go against what the media narrative is and make sure he gets the nomination. that is something folks in iowa are really attuned to. there are folks that are going to go out for nikki haley and desantis as well, but they don't have the same fervor.

if you've been saying this whole time you're a trump gal and you get out there and you're on the wrong side, think about the neighbors. >> there's something about iowa. take trump out of it. there's something weird about the idea you would stand up in front of your kid's basketball coach and say i'm going to caucus for the other candidate. what happens if you want your kid to get on the basketball team? human dynamic can matter a lot. we know with trump people feel afraid of either saying they like trump or afraid of saying they don't like trump. take that dynamic into a caucus setting. i think you're going to get people who might not want to caucus for trump, but feel peer pressure to do so. >> you're right. what if your boss at the john deere dealership is a huge trump

guy -- >> right. and you need extra shifts. >> we've said it before, we'll say it again. we love going to iowa. we love iowa people. >> imagine donald trump walking into a voting booth with you, but they are allowed to go to the caucuses. i was there at 2020 in a caucus and andrew yang walked right in. >> it seems un-american. you're supposed to go in a voting booth and be able to vote privately and without any intimidation. but we've been talking about a guy that's talking about bedlam, execution, seal team six executions against his opponents. >> and an insurrection in his name. that's what they'll do for him.

>> for a caucus, it really does seem so undemocratic and slanted. >> it's kind of a new phenomenon. the old days, pre-trump in the caucus room, people would be completely fine with their kid's basketball coach knowing they liked mitt romney versus john mccain. this is a completely different world. i don't think iowa is going to look and say, okay, we're not going to do caucuses anymore, but it changes the dynamic and makes it more dangerous for people on the ground. coming up, a conversation on the rise. a new documentary examines how donald trump and some members of the conservative media have exploited people's faith for their own gain. in nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention

with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

not just any whiteboard... ...katie porter's whiteboard is one way she's: [news anchor] ...often seen grilling top executives of banks, big pharma, even top administration officials. katie porter.

never taken corporate pac money - never will. leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks” that fund politicians' pet projects. katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message.

got wants america to be saved. >> they're told over and over and over again that you're in danger. you need to fight if you don't want to lose your country. >> we are in a civil war between good and evil. >> this is not a movement about christian values. this is about christian power. >> what happens to the people who don't believe? ♪♪ >> we are on the precipice. >> god is on our side! >> we're taking our nation back! >> the thing is that we need democracy. back. >> we lose democracy. >> does that seem possible? >> yes. >> this was just part of the trailer for the new documentary entitled "god and country,"

which looks at the history of christian nationalism in america and how donald trump and members of the far right media have twisted christianity to fit their own political and financial agendas. joining us now, one of the film's producers, emmy award winning actor and renowned filmmaker rob reiner and two-time emmy award winner director dan parkland. this looks powerful and frightening. >> yeah, you know, rob, we were talking about -- we were talking about before we came on about i grew up in the southern baptist church, grew up evangelical. there was a reaction to what happened in the '60s and '70s, and then there was this sort of return to normalcy in the church, but another group broke off and i love -- i love the title "god and country" because what we used to always talk about is god and country. >> right, right. >> it's like we are faithful to

our god. >> right. >> and we are proud to be americans. >> right. and the founding fathers -- >> but it didn't blur together. >> no, it never did. >> and now christian nationalism is not about jesus. it's not about the new testament. it's about pushing a political agenda. >> right. if you look at the founding fathers and our founding documents, there's a clear separation of church and state, but when you talk to these people, these christian nationalists who are on a drive to do anything, my way or the highway, they'll resort to violence. they will tell you face to face that there is no separation of church and state in the constitution. they'll tell you right there. you can say to them, no, it's there. three times it's mentioned very specifically because the people who came to this country were fleeing religious persecution. they didn't want to have a national religion for the country, and they separated. but they say no, there's no -- it's not in the constitution.

and it's right there three times. >> dan, i was so horrified as we all were, on january the 6th, and as a guy that grew up in an evangelical church, most horrifying were people, rioters, people beating the hell out of cops that were holding up crosses and basically saying jesus wants me to be here. it's the most unchrist-like behavior, and yet they're hiding behind the cross. >> yeah, i mean, you can justify terrible things, if you can believe, you can help yourself to believe that this is god's will. i mean, i think the hardest thing in the film is just to talk about christian nationalism, just to explain what it is. people don't see -- i think they don't understand what it is. it sounds like it might be two very good things. it's about love of country and being honorable to your faith, but, yeah, when you dig into it and what the film tries to show is the ways in which it's not christian at all. it's not a faith. if we can get people to think

that it's a faith then it's beyond criticism, and it's really hard to talk about in these terms. >> one thing that really angers christian nationalists is the fact that when i was in high school, i always said for 2000 years, from the time of jesus's birth through not the breakup of the beatles but the breakup of the eagles, like, evangelicals were pro-choice. they were pro-choice. and then you had wyrick and jerry falwell going we have a southern baptist democrat, we have to separate southerners and catholics from this guy. and so they said, we'll make up abortion as a religious issue, and they did. just like that. >> yeah, it's a political strategy. >> it was a political strategy hatched in 1979 to beat jimmy carter. >> so we've got to the stage in america where i think it's more than half of republicans think that america should be a strictly christian country,

which, again, seems to go against what was written in your constitution, the whole idea of america for those people who are being persecuted. talk about how that message is -- the message of christianity is being merged in social media and on right wing talk shows with nationalism and has become almost confused and so people who are listening to it perhaps don't even know whether what they're hearing is a form of nationalism or what they're hearing is actual spirit uality. >> they are in a specific silo where that is told to them over and over and over again that those are connected. something that you brought up, which is very important, that it was a political tool that they could use, but the beginnings of christian nationalism didn't start with abortion. it started with race. when brown versus the board of education 1954, christian

nationalists, you know, jumped on the idea that we can't have this. we'll create religious schools where we can keep black people out of those schools. but that's kind of ugly to build a political movement around racism is ugly, and it didn't go anywhere. and if wasn't until falwell and these guys said, ooh, abortion, 1972, '73. roe v. wade. when that came on, then it was ooh, we can latch onto that. we can drive that. we can use that as a political agenda. >> the thing is they didn't latch onto it until there was a southern baptist who was a democrat in the white house. >> and i think, you know, on that question of race, right, it didn't work and then they went to abortion. now they're kind of back at that, when you looked as the trailer was playing, the one black person was the person you guys spoke to, right? >> a few more. >> a few more! reverend barber in there who basically reintroduces the ideas

of jesus and what -- how great we can be if we do embrace jesus's teachings. >> and so my question is, you know, when you think about how it's not just christian nationalism, it's also white christian nationalism, and i guess talk about what you guys found as you guys were working on this. >> well, i think race has been at the core of it from the center as rob pointed out. the modern christian nationalist movement i think it's safe to say launched in the wake of the brown v. board of education 1954, but christian nationalism was used to justify slavery before that and it was used to justify segregation. so yeah, it's been -- race has been at the core of this american version of christian nationalism for a long time, but all of it, again, is ultimately serving a political agenda and not a faith-based agenda. >> yeah, the documentary "god and country" premiers in select theaters nationwide on february 16th. producer rob reiner, director dan parkland, thank you both

very much, and thanks for coming on today as well. >> thanks for having us. >> that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (sigh) (snoring)

if you struggle with cpap... you should check out inspire. honey? inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com