and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ emergen-c crystals pop and fizz when you throw them back. and who doesn't love a good throwback? ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) emergen-c crystals. ♪♪ good to be with you. i'm katy tur. after being told he could not speak during closing arguments in his civil fraud case this afternoon, donald trump's lead defense attorney stood up and asked the court to hear the former president out for two to three minutes. judge engoron gave him five as long as he, quote, focused on the facts. here's what donald trump said,

quote, the financial statements are perfect. the bank's got all their money. the banks are happy as can be. the money is irrelevant. it's a small number. i'm an innocent man persecuted by someone running for office. this state is vicious. and it takes away all my rightings. this is no fraud. it's a fraud on me. i did nothing wrong, he said. perhaps unsurprisingly, judge engoron interrupted asking chris kise to control your client, before calling the whole thing off and breaking for lunch. it's the prosecution's turn to deliver its close. asking for a $370 million fine as well as a ban on the trump organization in new york. prosecutors say the court has not heard any new facts from donald trump's team because, quote, most of the facts are undisputed.

joining us from outside the manhattan courthouse, yasmin vossoughian. it got a bit spicy today. what else are we hearing from the prosecution right now? >> reporter: spicy is putting it lightly to say the least. i got to say, when you walked through kind of the exchange between engoron and the former president, one of the things that stood out to me is when kise said to the judge, give trump two to three minutes to give closing remarks, and engoron was like, if i give you five minutes and you abide by the certain parameters and rules, then i'll allow you to speak. the former president didn't say, i'll abide by them, the former president launched into obviously what you just talked about which was apropos to the way the former president goes about things. that being said, the prosecution has begun their closing arguments, going on for two hours or so. they gave a statement prior to

these closing arguments, which i want to read to you, setting up what we're likely to hear over the next couple of minutes or so, and then i'm going to walk you through what we're getting from inside the courtroom. this is from the statement issued by attorney general letitia james. the conclusion that defendants intended to defraud when preparing and certifying trump's statements of financial condition is inescapable. the myriad deceptive schemes they employ to inflate asset values and conceal facts were so outrageous, they belie innocent explanation, and here are notes from inside the courtroom, some of the things that are standing out to me. i'm going to read from my phone to make sure i'm getting it as accurate as possible. were they acting with intent when they manipulated their annual financial statements as part of a conspiracy? did they know it? and the answer is, this is by the way, from the prosecution, and the answer is yes.

they go on to say let's talk about what we didn't hear, there was no suggestion this was a mistake or rogue operation by allen weisselberg, defendant did not have one question for ms. kidder when the documents were prepared. allen weisselberg had to certify each year that the trump organization was responsible for the documents, admitted he knew that he wasn't relying on mazars, the accounting firm that the trump organization had been pointing to preparing the tax documents to make representations to mazars, the accuracy of the statement is the responsibility of the trump organization. engoron says this, katy, what makes you think $2 million severance to allen weisselberg is suspicious, and one of the prosecuting attorneys says this, it's suspicious because of the terms of the agreement and the context of this case and the restrictions that were imposed on him as part of the separation agreement. ie, not to cooperate with the

ongoing investigation. so to say there are fireworks, i'll go back to that, is putting it fairly lightly. a lot of back and forth, not only between the defendants and their closing arguments, but the prosecution and their closing arguments as well. and, oh, to boot, by the way, the two to three to five minute closing arguments by the former president without permission from judge engoron. >> joining us now criminal defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, and former assistant attorney general for new york tristan snell, he led new york's prosecution of donald trump for defrauding trump university students and wrote a book about the chase. taking down trump, 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by somebody who did it successfully. gentlemen, welcome. danny, i'm going to ask you first, why would chris kise want donald trump to speak today? >> because i bet chris kise had no interest in having donald trump speak today. i think the client wanted to

speak today, and i think sometimes especially now after this many years, if you're signing on to be former president trump's attorney, part of the deal is you know the client is going to make some demands, and the client has the right to ask. but i'm astonished that it even got this far. i'm astonished that donald trump was able to say one word. i have been saying this all morning, this is a motion that had it been made with a party that no one's ever heard of, that motion would have been denied, there would have been no e-mails back and forth, no consideration, and he never would have spoken. that's because judges say if you have a lawyer, the lawyer does the talking. you know why? because most of the time clients don't understand what's relevant and what's not. attorneys will tell you that throughout trial, their client will lean over, poke at them, hand them notes, and i promise you, 9 times out of 10, the note has nothing to do with anything, and that should not ever come to light. there's a reason why we have

these rules, why clients have to rely on attorneys to speak, and this is exhibit a as to why. >> help me understand what judge engoron was trying to do by letting him speak, if he was trying to give him whatever room he needed because this is a man running for president. he's going to say whatever he's going to say outside of the courthouse or on social media, why not give him five minutes to give his campaign speech and say whatever he wants to say and say thank you, and move on. >> he can make the campaign speech on the courthouse steps. we have rules in court, and we're so committed, how often do i hear other folks say, we have to treat trump exactly the same as everyone else. i'll tell you a everyone else. i repre everyone else and so do the other lawyers out there. everyone else would never ever, i can't stress this enough, can my client give a speech. every time that happens in court, i'll be completely candid with you, most o. time when that happens in court, the judge flat out yells at a client who speaks up. it happens within a second.

hey, judge, i want to say something. >> i always want you to be completely candid with me. >> i'm always completely candid with you, katy. the point is, this is something that never happens. if you ask me, hey, was it a good idea, part of me wants to say, i don't know. i've never had a situation where a represented, maybe a pro se, obviously if you're pro se, and if trump wanted to fire all of his lawyers on the last day and give whatever speech he wanted, by the way, i don't know if that would be allowed in most situations because courts don't let defendants game the system by firing their lawyers, proceeding pro se when they want to and then hiring lawyers again. so if he wants to go pro se, great, that would be a whole other disaster. >> let's get back to the arguments they're making not just the political speeches, and donald trump's attorneys argue that no fraud was committed. nobody mentioned fraud at the trial, that nobody was harmed, that these banks got all of their money.

they were happy to do business with donald trump. where does this fine come from. explain what the prosecution says, and also explain what june engoron already ruled. >> first off, we always have to remember, donald trump already lost this case. we are here to talk about math and other issues around the edges here. it's primarily to figure out what amount he's going to have to pay to the state of new york. it can get appealed, but he already lost in summary judgment. he's saying, there's no fraud, no harm, no victim. that's not what the statute at issue here says. it's new york executive loss 6312. it's a statutory fraud provision. it does not require a victim. it does not require intent. it does not require that the victim reasonably relied on the misrepresentations. those are things that are required by common law fraud and often criminal fraud but not required by this particular statute which has been on the book for decades and has a ton of new york case law around it. there's a different statute it's

related to, the martin act, which has been around for a hundred years. this is not new law. the notion that you have to have a victim, no, donald trump is making things up as you go along. at the end of the day, the victim is the people. the plaintiff in any case like this is the people of the state of new york, and about protecting the marketplace, and saying you can't just lie and make things up in business this this state. >> the trump university case ended up with the end of trump university as you well know. could this case end up with the end of the trump organization here in new york state? >> as we know it, yes. absolutely. >> what does that mean? >> executive 6312 contains a provision we have been talking about that allows for the cancellation of corporate charters when there's been consistent and repeated frau. that looks like the case here. certainly something the ag is pursuing and something judge engoron ruled on, we're going to cancel the corporate charters for the businesses involved here, and they will be placed

into receivership. it's exactly what happens in a bankruptcy, it gets handed over to someone else, that personally liquidates the businesses. it could be the end of his businesses in new york. >> could he appeal the ruling of fraud. >> yes. >> he's likely going to do that. >> there's been so many appeals and motions that were not timely made or appropriately made in this matter, it's hard to keep track of all of them. >> is an appellate court going to look at judge engoron, you tell me, i'm not familiar with arguing in front of a judge. i haven't been to trial, thank god, but is judge engoron acting like most judges do? trump keeps saying he's not being fair. he's ruling unfairly against him, and you know, he's a colorful guy. is there anything that the appellate court might look like with his rulings and actions in

that court that he might say i don't know if this worked sdl . >> there's an interesting factor to this case, which isn't common. it's a bench trial. a judge only trial that arguably may lead to different, more issues raised on appeal. but, i mean, the trump team is going to appeal everything here, the summary judgment decision, judge engoron's decisions during trial. they have appealed, for example, when judge engoron tried to gag trump. they're going to appeal every aspect of this that they can. points on appeal are often things we didn't notice during the trial, pieces of evidence that came in that the defense objected to that really may not have made a blip on the radar but it's part of that overall list of grievances, it's part of the process. it's all part of the appeal that they're going to submit to the appellate division when they finally perfect this appeal. >> donald trump when he was making his remarks, this is buried in the i'm being treated

unfairly and being politically persecuted. he said the big thing is not just the valuations of the building, which you can argue are subjective to a degree, the actually square footage of trump tower in particular, which is a math issue. it's not subjective. either the ruler says it or doesn't. trump tower was stated as a 30,000 square foot penthouse. >> his condo. >> his condo in these valuations. it's 10,000 square feet. they call it a triple, they multiply it by three. >> if you believe that, i have a bridge to sell you. this is insane. he knew exactly what he was doing. but the ag doesn't even have to prove intent. the standard under 6312 that new york court have had for decades and decades is whether or not it has a tendency to mislead. that's the bar they have to

clear. a tendency to mislead. >> can you also explain to me where she gets 370 because last i checked before a couple of days ago it was 250 million. why 370 now? >> that's a great question. i think it has to do with -- do you know? >> i don't know. i was going to let you say something smart jump right on top of it. >> so here's what i know about it, they were doing the calculations apparently on what he would have owed if he had accurately wrote down the valuation of all the properties, and accurately submitted to the banks here's what i have, here's what i'm looking for, this is the money he would have owned in loan repayments, as i understand it. >> because he got a better interest rate because the properties were bigger, because they were generating more revenue that didn't exist, because they had, what, property regulations on them that he said they didn't have, et cetera, all of those things. >> we'll see what judge engoron

says. the closing arguments are ongoing for the prosecution. we're going to come back to the story once they're done, and once judge engoron has the case. he says he's going to rule by the end of the month. it's january 11th. he'll put it in the docket. we'll find out at the same time. can donald trump afford to pay all of these fines and can the trump organization survive being kicked out of new york. we have people who study this welcoming up. plus, from the political court in congress, political hearing to a legal court where hunter biden is today. and is chris christie really out? and if not, who loses, we're back in 60 seconds. start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free.

it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com (dad) it's our phone bill... we pay for things thatthat we don't need.rst. (mom) that's a bit dramatic. (dad) we must tighten our belts! (mom) a better plan to save is verizon! (vo) that's right! plans start at $25 per line guaranteed for 3 years. only on verizon. let's talk about whether donald trump can join us. joining us now, david fahrenthold, awarded the pulitzer prize. you're looking at finances, numbers, no one better to call. david, good to see you my

friend. donald trump, the amount of money that he has in his bank account is under dispute. he says it's one thing. forbes and others say it is a different number. $250 million is a really big fine to pay in cash. 370 is even bigger. this is on top of the fines that he already has to pay e. jean carroll and whatever else is coming down the line. what do we know about donald trump's liquid assets and whether he's able to pay this back. >> liquid assets, stocks and bonds, things like that, i'm not sure he has that much today, but he doesn't have to pay it today. this penalty will become at some point in the future, probably months and years, given the appeals we're talking about. if he had to pay it, he doesn't have liquid assets perhaps, to cover that. he certainly has other assets that are easy to sell. just to pick two out of all of these, he owns shares of two officer buildings, one in new york, and one in san francisco that somebody else manages,

there's no trump name on them. trump does nothing but collect a check. they are amazingly valuable, and you could sell them in a second and pay off the phones. i don't think whistleblower we're going to see trump put out of business. but losing the right to operate in new york city where his cash producing properties, the buildings are. >> does the trump organization survive if they can't operate in new york? >> it does survive. i think this will accelerate what was already happening to it which is that it's changing from an organization that operates on the trump brand and on real estate to an organization that dwells on politics. you could get rid of, but that would mean selling perhaps under a court order receivers supervision, selling properties in new york, relocating to florida where trump has a number of properties and already lives and making his money from politics, selling things to his

fans, and slightly indirectly from politics, hosting events at mar-a-lago, doral, and other places. he could certainly survive. i just think it means changing the trump organization from what it was, this small conglomerate with pieces of different industries to basically focusing on golf courses, a club and politics. >> what's the most significant thing about this case that's stood out to you? >> well, speaking of investigative reporter, one of the hardest things about covering trump was how few facts, you know, undisputed facts there were about him. the organization itself is a black box. they say little about themselves. what they say about themselves is often wrong. it's been satisfying to see these slippery facts that i have been trying to look at and figure out for years get sort of nailed to the wall so we know what the answer is, and having trump's people be put on the stand and having to answer about them. i'm happy about that, surprised it worked, that we learned as

much as we did. i'm surprised trump didn't go for a jury trial. i'm not sure he meant to do this, whether on purpose or by accident, his team put his hands in the face of a judge. rather than the jury you can sway in motion. >> they say they wanted a jury trial. there's a box you check on paperwork, do you want a jury trial or a bench trial. they did not check the jury trial box. whether intentional or not, this is what happened and what donald trump got by virtue of his own lawyers' doing. they also are saying if the attorney general is successful here and judge engoron rules with we are and levees a huge fine, that's going to harm business. this is the way businesses are practiced. this is normal for businesses, and your covering of stuff like this, is the way the trump organization does business, the

way they value things for loans, is that normal? >> no. we talked to assessors. what a lot of this case comes down to is property assessments. trump says his property is worth x. the state says it's worth x minus a huge amount. this is what everybody does. we puff things up, we're proud of hour properties. we talked to people who do this for a living. nobody does this. nobody exaggerates as much as he does. also, it's not that he throws out number, and we think the number is too high. he builds that number off false facts. he says i have the right to develop on this parcel and that parcel. i have permissions to build houses here, there and over there. those were wrong. if you lie about the facts that give your property value, you can't do that. in fact, i would flip that argument around, if everybody was allowed to do that, to lie about the value of the land, the legal permissions, if we could

lie about that without penalty, how could you do business in new york. how could transactions go on with that level of lying going on. >> david fahrenthold, thank you very much, i hope there's somebody else in the office with you. it looks lonely. david, good to see you. what curve balls could be coming for iowa while donald trump focuses on court instead of the campaign. mixed metaphors. first, could hunter biden go to jail. what is happening to him in a california courtroom right now. w ? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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hunter biden just arrived at the federal courthouse in california, a federal courthouse, where he is expected to officially enter a not guilty plea to nine felony and misdemeanor tax related charges. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli. yesterday he was in front of a political court, if you will, in congress. today he's in front of a judge. what's going to happen? >> reporter: yeah, katy, it was quite the coast-to-coast adventure we're on here. and it is an interesting hearing, should be underway shortly. should be fairly routine. there are nine charges, failure to file, failure to pay taxes, misdemeanors, but also the felony charges of filing a false return and tax evasion.

we expect hunter biden to plead not guilty to the charges and the argument is going to be essentially this, yes, he has acknowledged his wrong doing. he has paid back the taxes that were owed but that this is part of an overzealous prosecution. the federal prosecutor, david weiss who has faced political pressure from republicans and is bringing charges that would not otherwise be brought if his last name were not hunter biden. during this proceeding, we will hear the charges be read, they will ask hunter for his plea, and there may be motions and discussion about a potential trial date. this will return back to the court of public opinion. the former president in a courthouse, and now the president's son about to appear before a judge in l.a. >> the first lady was asked about this the other day by mika here on msnbc, and she talks about it in a very personal way. how is the white house feeling, and how is the first lady feeling? >> reporter: obviously it's so striking the difference in what

we're seeing, right, because the white house itself, whether it's from the campaign or karine jean-pierre from the podium. there are political reasons as well as the white house wants to continue to emphasize this fire wall between the president and the justice department. they don't want the perception of interfering or being seen as interfering in what the justice department is doing in this case. the first lady responding to this as a mother, a grandmother, what republicans are doing is cruel and having an effect on him. that is what we have consistently seen, sort of a difference between the personal view of the president and the first lady expressing support and admiration, love for their son and the way in which he has rebuilt his life. the campaign and the white house itself wanting to keep arm's length from all of this, katy. >> mike memoli, thank you very much. south africa takes israel to court in the hague. what happens if the panel of

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katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message. i know everyone is saying donald trump has the 2024 gop nomination in the bag. look at the polls and his supporters. i am here to remind you to take

a breath. polls have been wrong before. political gravity has been defied before. and not just by trump, remember joe biden's numbers and lackluster early showing in the 2020 primary season. remember the lock jeb bush had ahead of 2016, or hillary clinton for that matter. my point is, yes, it all might point out that donald trump wins but wait for voters to start voting because voters can surprise you. joining us now from urbandale, iowa, is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. so, vaughn, are you seeing anything out there that might defy expectations? >> reporter: if i may, bill belichick and nick saban also stopped reigning over their programs as well at one point in time, much to the surprise of my. anything is possible at this point, when you're looking at the iowa caucus. it's unlike the democratic caucus where folks walk in, and

they have to show in front of their neighbors and family members who they support. in iowa for the republican caucus, it's all by secret ballot. the second part is the difficulty is data. the anecdotes we have with folks on the ground, and also the data, and the latest nbc news "des moines register" poll, 70% of those who responded that they are going to caucus for donald trump said that they are firm in their support and our poll had him at 51% support. if you take 70% of that, he has a 34% bottom. for donald trump, the math is looking good. we won't know until monday night, katy. >> can you explain how a secret ballot works in a caucus. is it easy to tell me over the air? >> reporter: you walk up into the room there, and you go and fill it out, and you deliver it to the leader of the precinct there and they tally it up and

announce to everybody who won the precinct. >> that's exciting viewing. i found the reporting that you had with some voters who said they were afraid to tell their friends and neighbors that they did not support donald trump any longer because they were afraid of the vitriol they would face. i wonder if there's potential to see the opposite of what we saw in 2016. i just think it's a really interesting case where we had voters back then not telling pollsters, you know, not telling reporters who they really supported, obviously outside of trump rallies, and pulling the lever for donald trump in the secrecy and privacy of the space. i wonder what the social pressure is right now among republicans in republican corners of republican states, especially, to say, hey, listen, i'm not really a fan of this guy any longer. i kind of want to take a chance on someone else. >> reporter: you know, and that's part of the opportunity by not having a democratic caucus this time around is that

registered democrat asks registered independents can come and change their party registration on caucus night. i have gone and crunched the numbers. only about 10 to 15% of usually the caucus turnout are the independents who changed their registration. in new hampshire, i don't expect a huge wave of them to make a great impact here. there's another component of this over the last eight years. a great many former republicans have left the party, not only to become independents but democrats. we have seen in three election cycles in a row that there was a conservative constituency at one point. you could call it democrat today. the question is do those folks feel invigorated by a nikki haley campaign, and come out and change registration on a night when it's going to be less than 0 degrees. i had a phone call with one

woman i talked to. a registered indemnity. she said she is going to come and caucus because she wants donald trump to not be the republican no, ma'am know. when i asked her who are you going to caucus for, it wasn't nikki haley or ron desantis, it was asa hutchinson. she is the most normal mainstream conservative in the race. >> last question, is it hurting donald trump to be in a courtroom instead of on the campaign trail? >> reporter: right now, you know, i think that's where you look at donald trump. he's ever more squeezed into the corner of the room. not only is his political future on the line but also the future of his business, and for donald trump, if some reason here in 2024, he loses either the republican nomination or general election, it's the tump organization that he'll have left. in terms of how it impacts him on the campaign trial, i haven't met anybody who says they're going to step away from him because he's not doing the retail politicking.

i had a conversation with one woman who told me that, hey, look, he's doing what he has to do. he's donald trump, the former president and he has a lot on his plate, and, you know, she's not wrong, katy. >> as you see at the bottom of the screen, there's been a break in court here in new york. the prosecution was giving its closing argument after this break, which we assume will be pretty short, one of the prosecutors will get back up to discuss donald trump's intent. joining us is former press secretary and house speaker john boehner, and brendan buck. if there's somebody who has a chance against donald trump, say it's nikki haley because right now her polling numbers look best in the next state which is new hampshire. what is nikki haley's path? >> obviously it's a surprise win in new hampshire, and trying to find some way to turn that into real momentum. money is probably the biggest thing in politics, and campaigns

end when you run out of money, and money follows momentum. i think the big challenge for her would be if she somehow pulls off the surprise win in new hampshire, which would rely on a lot of independent voters, can she make a credible case that there is a path for her. i don't know that a lot of money will come out of that if you can't actually make the case that you can, for example, win your own state. after new hampshire, they're going to head to nevada, where donald trump is an overwhelming favorite and down to south carolina where it is obviously, she served for a number of years, but it is trump country, and if there's no clear path for her to win her own state, it's really difficult to see. i totally appreciate what you're saying about voters surprising us, but we've never seen a lead in a primary at this stage as dominant as he has. so nikki haley would have to do something pretty impressive in new hampshire. and then start to see things turn in her favor in some other places if there's going to be real momentum to follow.

>> if you look at the polling, donald trump has 50%, around there, hatch the republican party. if there is just one republican going against him, is there a chance that that one republican, if it's nikki haley or ron desantis, has the chance to solidify all of the rest of the volt, and does it bring in some of the anti-trumpers who aren't voting in the republican primary any longer. i wonder if things are as concrete as we see them currently. on january 11th, 2024. >> yeah, the kids table dynamic that's existed in this primary i think has benefitted donald trump. if there was one credible alternative, i think the conversation would be entirely different. the problem is ron desantis and nikki haley both think they should be that alternative. chris christie until recently thought they should be that alternative. we have a smaller field than we did when he first ran. i think that's helpful, it's obviously still too big, and if there was a conversation, this is the person who is the

alternative to donald trump. he may actually have to engage and have a conversation, and maybe show up to a debate. but when they're all fighting for second, and honestly, they're pretty transparent that they're fighting for second. i fear it's probably too late for that. obviously chris christie is a huge benefit to nikki haley in new hampshire. unless ron desantis is ready to drop out ahead of iowa, endorse nikki haley and have the rest of the party around her, it's hard to see that happening at this point. if it happened months ago, perhaps. it may be too late now. >> here's an interesting thought experiment for you at home, imagine there is somebody that beats donald trump in the primary, gets the nomination, what does donald trump do? what happens to the republican party? it's a good thought experiment. brendan buck, thank you very much. and from food to gas and air fare, what a new report reveals about the grip inflation may still have on the u.s. economy. what are the signs for the future. first, though, what south

africa has accused israel of doing in a landmark case that began today. began today.

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officials and subsequent military decisions that have led to mass displacement in at least 23,400 deaths according to the gaza health ministry. israel denies those claims and will argue its case in front of the hague tomorrow, that the idf strikes are targeted and intended to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties. joining us is nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. when we talk about the word genocide, that didn't have a name until the holocaust, it's the reason why the state of israel exists. what is south africa using to bolster its arguments? >> reporter: they're starting by laying out in searing detail what the palestinian people have suffered over the last 97 days. 1% of the population in gaza killed. 85% of the population displaced. a health care system that has collapsed. warnings of starvation from the united nations, but as you said,

south africa is not accusing israel of being cavalier with palestinian lives, being careless with their bombing. they are saying israel is acting with genocidal intent, with the intent to wipe out the palestinians as a people. and i want to play you just a little bit of the south african's opening statement. >> south africa contends that israel has transgressed article 2 of the convention by committing actions that fall within the definition of genocide. the actions show a systematic pattern of conduct from which genocide can be inferred. >> to die a slow death because of starvation and dehydration or to die quickly because of a bomb attack or snipers but to die nevertheless. in fact, in fact,

israel must find ways for gazans that are more painful than death. >> reporter: now that minister also suggested dropping a nuclear bomb on gaza, that is oneza of the right wing membersf benjamin netanyahu's government. the south africans really paid attention to playing the words ofri israeli government officia from prime minister benjamin netanyahu on down to the court to say this is the official policy of the state of israel. the israelis strongly deny they are carrying out genocide in gaza. they say this is a military operation laurvelg launched in self-defense following the october 7th attacks, which killed 1200 israelis they say they are operating within the confines of international humanitarian e law, but it is notable the iz ratties are taking this really, really seriously. they are sendingat their legal g guns tomorrow to represent them.

and they do not want to be in a position where the international court of justice, an official arkansas gone of the united nations, finds israel to be carrying out jds. they don't want the united states to be in a position of t having to support a war that the icj considers to be an act of genocide. the court a does not have enforcement powers, and 20 years ago, it found that the so-called separation barrier, which israel built alongt ll the west bank, thatst far from here, was illeg. that barrier remains up, but it would still be a major development if the court rules against this. >> this is what happens when you align yourself with the very far ragt. this is what benjamin netanyahu has done. so the people speaking might not necessarily be the ones making decisions or the ones in the war cabinet, but they are t aligned with benjamin netanyahu. they are keeping him in power. and they have said some pretty outrageous things that, again, don't necessarily align with the israeli people, but that is who

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the price you pay for just about everything went up slightly. the overall inflation rate was 3.4%, a slight tick up from november. compared to a year ago when inflation was closer to 6.5%, today's report looks great. does it feel great? joining us now is senior business correspondent christine romans. there's a grant between reality and the feelings that people have. it's called the bad vibes economy. what's going on? >> it's a really big gap.

it's something i have been trying to solve most of this year. when you tell people the economy is doing pretty well, they give you this sour economy. people don't feel it. they look at egg prices or milk prices or meat prices, ask they are all still higher than a couple years ago. so even when we can say the inflation rate is declining, which it has from 9% all the way down to 3.4%, the rate is declining, but inflation is still on higher price levels from the past couple years. people feel that. they feel that. so that's why they feel lousy about the economy. >> does it take time? this is just the way it is. my income has adjusted. i got it. now don't feel so bad about it any longer. >> the more time that passes, the more people start to the feel better about things. you're right about wages. real wages are positive. people are making more than they are giving up in the extra prices at the store. it takes time for people to start to feel that and really

feel that month in and month out. this report today caught people by surprise because 3.4% was hotter than they had expected it would be, but still, the long-term is what's important here. not one month, but the trend has been favorable. >> it's adjusted month to month. you never know where it's going to land. let me ask you about what you were telling me about. when you to pollsters about the economy? >> they say it's terrible and going in the wrong direction. it tushes out it has nothing to do with the economy. it has to do with polarization politically, choices for candidates, it has to do with the fact you have to ask a manager to come and unlock a case to get a new toothbrush. it's other things that are these gripes in the public that get lumped into the economy category. >> so it's a stand in for i don't feel like this country is going in it the right direction. >> exactly. >> i see the shelves stocked and wouldn't have to ask a manager

to unlock toothpaste. >> their own economy is going fine, but they worry about the direction of the economy. i think it will be a challenging year, i think, polling wise if people start to feel better about inflation, how will that translate. >> it could potentially be good later on for president biden if things still keep going well and people settle into this. maybe it will take longer than that. >> gas prices, interest rates, inflation, lots to mull over for investors and voters. >> christine romans, so good to have you onset and in person. so here's my welcome. it's good to have you on the team. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. i'm ari melber, as we track a whole