speak later tonight. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you on a busy night there. david, when you take it all together, what would be the next steps if this was effective in the eyes of the west? >> well, i think the next steps would be that the houthis would stand down. they would realize that further punishment is what they're likely to get if they keep provoking this, and you know, with some luck, that will make the region a little safer. i think it's important to keep in mind, they kept firing missiles and they actually struck something that produced a lot of deaths, it would have been a call for a much broader response, and that could have actually been escalatory. so this was very carefully timed, very measured, handled in a very measured and responsible way. >> david on the breaking news, our thanks. and thanks to you at home for joining us on "the beat." our coverage continues with a lot going on. "the reidout" with joy reid

starts now. good evening. we're following breaking ne. the u.s. and british military have launched strikes against targets in houthi controlled yemen, according to two u.s. officials. this comes after the iranian-backed militant group has launched a series of attacks on commercial ships in the red ahich has stoked fears of a wider conflict in the region already reeling from the israel/hamas war. we have a lot to get to. this is obviously a huge development in the region. you're looking at a map right there. the challenge has been that the houthi attacks have caused ships that would normally go through the suez canal to have to go around the horn of africa, meaning it takes a lot longer to get there. there have been some limited military strikes that have killed some houthis that were involved in this blockade. the houthis launched this blockade in protest to the killing of palestinians in gaza. so that is just the setup, the background to what's going on.

the houthis are an iranian-backed group. they were involved in a civil war in yemen. we're going to go to gabe gutierrez with more. gabe, what do you know? >> reporter: hi there, joy. as you may have mentioned, two u.s. officials confirm to nbc news that the strikes are under way, targeting houthi rebels inside yemen. what we understand from those officials is that the strikes have targeted multiple locations with fighter jets and tomahawks fired from navy ships. now, this comes, joy, this is a significant escalation because for the past several weeks, national security officials here at the white house had been repeatedly warning the houthis to essentially knock it off and to stop attacking commercial ships in the red sea. now, today, the iranian navy sees an oil tanker off the coast of oman, really raising the stakes here, and secretary of state antony blinken was asked about the escalating tensions

earlier in the day. he said he did not view it as an escalation. at least not yet. but there are, quote, danger points. however, this breaking news that these air strikes are under way does seem to really ramp up the stakes. this is something the u.s. and the uk have been considering for some time. and they had already responded, joy, by shooting down missiles and drones fired by the houthis. they had already also recently sank some houthi boats that had fired on commercial ships. but this is the first time that the u.s. air strikes are targeting the houthis inside of yemen. these land-based targets. again, we don't have reports. it's too early to know of any injuries or exactly how many targets were hit. and officially from the white house, no official word yet, joy, but what we know is from the two u.s. officials is that these air strikes already are under way. >> and let me ask you this question, because the question of whether or not there will be an escalation. i mean, one would think that firing missiles into yemeni

territory is in and of itself an escalation. are there any plans for a press conference, for president biden to speak to what is going on, because i think the american people would want to know how limited of a military engagement we're looking at or whether it could become broader. >> well, joy, at this point, we have no indication that the president biden is expected to speak tonight. again, we don't even have official confirmation from officials with the national security council that these air strikes are under way. so at this point, there is -- we have no indication the president is set to speak, but i can tell you, this is something that had come up over and over again over the last several days in these white house briefings. and really concerns about what the houthi attacks on ships in the red sea could mean for everyday americans if these ships have been diverted, this obviously has huge economic impacts around the world. and national security spokesman john kirby reiterated that warning today and said that there would be consequences.

however, when he was pressed on what the consequences could be, he refused to say. but right now, tonight, we know that apparently the u.s. was considering these strikes inside yemen for the first time, and they have carried them out. >> gabe, i appreciate you jumping on here very quickly, and i know you're very busy making phone calls and trying to figure things out. has there been to your knowledge, any sort of word from the region? are we hearing from any regional leaders about these strikes by the u.s. and the uk? >> at this point, it's too early. the strikes, we understand it happened just within a short time ago. so we are monitoring any reactions from across the region, but joy, this has huge implications. for the last several months, really since the start of the israel/hamas war, we have been hearing over and over again that what the u.s. wanted to try and prevent is a wider war here in the middle east. we have no response yet that we

know of from iran, for example, but the u.s. has said that iran has aided and abetted the houthis, and has really been giving that warning over and over again, to expect consequences for these attacks, and even gotten other countries from across the region to kind of band together and to try to minimize these attacks on ships in the red sea. as of now, this is very early. very interesting to see how iran responds to this, and again, we're waiting for any type of response from national security council officials here at the white house. >> gabe gutierrez, if you do hear of anything within the 7:00 hour you think we need to know, please get on a call and please let us know so we can bring you back. we're going to tine following this major development, but meanwhile, there is also news back in the united states involving the leading candidate on the republican side for president. one donald j. trump. and this news is a lesson, in fact, for all of you who would

like to be attorneys, want to be lawyers. there is no legal value in letting your client take part in your closing arguments. don't do it. it will not work out in your favor. now, if you don't agree, just look to the dramatic scenes out of a new york courtroom today where closing arguments were made in donald trump's civil fraud trial. following judge engoron's decision yesterday not to allow trump to speak, given he would not follow the rules imposed on everyone else. trump's lawyers asked again at the end of their closing arguments to allow trump just a few minutes to speak. surprisingly, the judge agreed. unsurprisingly, trump very quickly went down the path that the judge told him not to go. trump went on the attack against new york attorney general letitia james, saying she hates trump and is just conducting a political witch hunt. he claimed the case is election interference and that she should be paying him for damages. trump also went on to attack the judge, claiming that he had his own agenda. and just remember, there's no jury in this trial. it's the judge who is going to which he said today that he is

trying to do before the end of the month. it's a ruling that has the potential to cause trump both great financial a reputational harm. the judge has already ruled that trump and his codefendants including his eldest sons are liable for fraud, for inating the value of their various properties. what is yet to be determined by judge engoron is what financial penalties trump will have to face. letitia james came into the case asking for $250 million in penalties. but has since upped that to $370 million. she's also asked for a lifetime ban for trump from the real estate industry in new york. >> at the end of the day, the point is simple. no matter how powerful you are, no matter how rich you are, that no one is above the law. and that the law applies to all of us equally and fairly. >> perhaps this is why the case has appeared to have gotten

under trump's orange tinted skin more than any other. with trump repeatedly lashing out in public and social media against the attorney general, the judge, and even the judge's clerk which resulted in a gag order against him. trump's rhetoric has had real world consequences. just this morning hours before the start of the closing arguments, judge engoron faced a bomb threat at his home. joining me now is msnbc reporter adam reese, who was in the courtroom today. and charles coleman jr., former brooklyn prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. thank you for being here and sitting through our breaking news. we're going to make this turn to talk about what happened in court today. you were there, adam. tell us what went on. >> we started out with the defense making their argument. again, same argument we have heard over the past 44 days. no fraud, no victims. michael cohen, the prosecution's lead witness, is a convicted liar. we should actually be praising mr. trump. he should get a medal.

everything that mr. trump did was right. and then they went on and on and on. mr. trump had the opportunity. he spoke. it was the same thing he said i am innocent. i should be compensated. i am the victim of fraud here. the prosecution, they had their chance to speak. they said more of the same. that essentially, you know, donald trump loves to talk about how rich he is, the banks love how rich he is. that they were actually begging him to let them loan him money, that they were rolling out the red carpet, but there was intent to defraud, the evidence is there, and if you don't see it, your head is buried in the sand. >> look, i'm not a lawyer, but even i know, if you represent yourself, you have a fool for a client. have you ever as a prosecutor seen a defendant in a case, particularly when there's no jury, if there's no jury to convince, it's the judge that gets to decide. have you ever heard of a defendant in a case like this

deciding to give part of the closing argument? >> no, joy. this is as bizarre as it is consistent with everything that we continue to see out of trump world here on earth one, where everyone continues to operate on earth two in that sort of camp. even if you had a client who wanted to testify, and you thought that was a bad idea, and you still allowed that client to exercise their right to testify, during your closing argument, you are absolutely not allowing your client to leave that judge or that jury with the final impression of what it is that your case represents. particularly if you know or have any inkling that that client is going to get on the stand and get in the well and gesticulate and berate the court officers and berate the judge and the entire justice system that is responsible for conducting this hearing, that you are an ofishiant of, as a lawyer, you're not going to do that. really absurd, bizarre, and also consistent. >> there's a possibility, again, coming into the room from a

nonlawyer's point of view, i could see foresee trump saying i'm going to appeal if he gets a $500 million judgment against him and say they didn't let me speak. he's killed that now because they did let him speak. in a way, did he undermine one of the few things he might have had on appeal. >> i don't know it was that. it was more so the judge made a conscious decision to take away an argument he could have it. he didn't undermine him because he has a history as you have seen over and over again in various jurisdictions, i'm going to put pressure on the refs. if they make a bad call from the bench, i now have an issue i can move on appeal and try to delay, delay, because that's what i want to do. judge engoron said i'm not going to give you that option here. i'm going to allow you your time to speak and i'm going to give you enough rope and you're going to hang yourself. >> how did the judge's demeanor change as he was hearing these attacks? >> the judge has always been amenable originally to let him speak. there was this intense, wild

exchange of emails earlier this week. the judge was going to let him speak. it was a back and forth. he gave him three chances. he finally said now or never. are you going to agree to these restrictions i'm putting in place? when mr. trump started to speak -- by the way, judge engoron was laying out the restrictions and mr. trump did not let him even finish. he just launched into his diatribe. it got to the point where the judge said, mr. kise, you need to control your client. it was the end of that and they were out. >> chris kise, for those who don't remember all of the playing cards, he got the $3 million or $2 million up front to represent trump. did you get the sense and could you tell if the idea for him to speak was his idea or the lawyers? i cannot imagine it was chris kise's idea. >> all along, it's him making the calls. and in those emails that i just referred to, you could see in the writing, there was almost a cut and paste, this was not chris kise speaking.

this was donald trump speaking. referring to this prosecution, it's a political witch hunt. >> they're performing for him. how high do you think this could letitia james has now gone up to $370 million. could it go higher? >> i don't know if it goes higher but higher than we initially started. donald trump's defense team was very smart to invoke language around corporate death penalty. what that's intended to do to get the justice to back up just a a little bit because he's worried about the judgment being appealed. that being said, we could see upwards of $300 million, which would be very bad for the trump organization, but i don't know we'll get to there 270. higher than letitia james started but not as high as she is now. >> let's put up a list of other things coming up. donald trump still has this case, you still have the appeals court in the d.c. appeals court case that he has to deal with whether or not he has absolute

immunity. you have the question of whether -- i can't even remember all of it. >> you have miami. you have hush money, you have d.c. >> e. jean carroll. >> atlanta. >> let's not forget alvin bragg who started all this with the first criminal indictment right here in manhattan. he's aufrb timed overlooks. he has a very full dance card and one of the things i wanted to point out is we have gone to a place where he is now amalgamated himself as a defendant and a candidate into one thing. these are campaign stops as much as they are court appearances. >> and the other piece of it is this is a settled matter. i want to put up here, to remind folks again, this is not the most sort of serious case in terms of criminality. i mean, obviously, stealing documents is worse. we might be out of time. well, never mind. i'm not going to put up the lies he told. i'm going to say good-bye to my guests. adam reese and charles coleman jr., it's been a wild night. thank you. we're continuing to follow tonight's breaking news. the u.s. and uk strike houthi

rebels in the red sea. sorry, in yemen. coming up on "the reidout," haley and desantis continue their sad battle for second place behind trump who is too busy bragging about destroying a woman's right to make her own reproductive decisions to even notice. "the reidout" continues after this.

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oh, ew! i think you've said enough. why don't we just switch to xfinity like everyone else? then you would know what year it was. i know what year it is. we are continuing to follow toni dramatic development in the middle east. the united states and britain have launched military strikes against multiple houthi targets in yemen. using fighter jets and tomahawks fired from navy ships. this comes after the iranian-backed militant group has launched a series of attacks on commercial ships in the red sea. let's bring in nbc news pentagon correspondent courtney kube. what is the latest news you have gotten? >> reporter: so literally, joy, the strikes just were carried out in the last hour. we know there were a number of targets. we're still working on the exact number to see if they actually, the u.s. and the british

military actually struck all of the targets they had been considering earlier. as you said, they used a combination of fighter jets, launched off of u.s. navy platform in the u.s. case. which is there in the region, and they also fired tomahawk missiles, also from u.s. navy ships. now, we're still waiting to hear exactly what they struck, but u.s. officials say they hit inside the houthi controlled area in yemen, and the sorts of targets they were going after included things like structures where they would be able to hit locations that could have an impact to stop some of these continued houthi attacks against the shipping lanes in the red sea. as you mentioned, the houthis have been targeting commercial and potentially military ships in the southern red sea since about november 19th. it all started with a brazen attack that day where at least ten armed militants rappelled down from helicopters and took over a cargo ship. since then, they have fired

upwards of 80 drones, ballistic missiles, anti-ship cruise missiles at ships in the region. many being shot down or knocked down by the u.s. military, but several actually have struck several of those ships and the results here, joy, is major commercial shipping companies throughout the world have started moving and rerouting away from that area. it's adding cost, adding time. ultimately, it could add more cost to consumers who buy some of the goods that will be moving through that area. again, tonight, the u.s. and the british military striking back. the effort is to deter these continued attacks by the houthi rebels in yemen. >> do we have more specificity on what kind of targets were being struck? >> we're still working on that. i can tell you literally some of the aircraft have just landed in the literally last minutes from conducting these strikes. we should know more this evening. but we should think about hardened structures they would go after. and the goal here, again, is to

try to degrade the houthis' ability to carry out more strikes. think about places they might store or build some of those one-way drones. and things the u.s. in the past have taken strikes against the houthis in yemen, those are the sorts of things they have gone after. >> thank you very much. much appreciated. and joining me now is retired admiral james stavridis, former nato supreme allied commander. i think for a lot of people who may be having flashbacks to the iraq war era, including myself, please explain what a limited strike with this kind of ammunition, what kind of damage might it do, you know, what are we looking at here in terms of how damaging these strikes might be? >> yeah, can we just back up for one second and say, why we're doing this, because it makes enormous sense on the part of the biden administration. over a period as courtney just

told us of about three months, we have had missiles launched at our ships and commercial shipping. we have had drone attacks. we had small boat attacks. we have warned these houthi rebels, houthi pirates again and again and again. and they have simply not responded. and joy, we can't just sit back and be defensive here and allow these iranian backed rebels to simply break 15% of the global shipping chain. that will increase costs for all of us in every single way. it shatters the confidence and the consensus in global shipping. that's what's happening here. so the administration correctly has decided to launch a series of strikes, three important things to note. number one, it's u.s. plus coalition partners. certainly, the united kingdom, i suspect others have been

involved at some level in this. because this is a global problem, not just a u.s. versus iran problem. so coalition strikes. number two, these strikes are going to go exactly as courtney said, against the physical means by which these houthi rebels have trained, equipped, and organized their forces. that means go after their missile sites, go after their ammunition storage, go after their fuel storage, go after their overall capability. and here's good news that can be done without huge loss of life, makes a lot of sense. and third and finally, joy, these strikes are a signal not just to houthi rebels in yemen. it's a signal to tehran, and let's hope tehran is listening because we really don't want this to expand beyond the situation we're facing now. >> that's what i want to talk with you more about, the

relationship. stay right there because i want to bring in gabe gutierrez. as he promised he would do, he's waving his hands because he has updated information, and that would be in the form of a statement from the white house. please, take over, gabe. >> reporter: that statement came just a few seconds ago. i'm going to read from it, as we look at it for the first time. president biden saying that today, at my discretion, u.s. military forces together with the united kingdom and with support from australia, bahrain, canada, and the netherlands successfully conducted strikes against a number of targets in yemen used by houthi rebels. he goes on to say these strikes are in direct response to unprecedented houthi attacks against international maritime vessels in the red sea including the use of anti-ship ballistic missiles for the first time in history. the president says these attacks have endangered u.s. personnel,

civilian mariners and our partners and jeopardized trade. he also goes on to say the response of the international community to these reckless attacks has been united and resolute. the statement is longer, joy. we're still going through it. but again, this is significant, joy, because over the last several weeks, the u.s. has really talked about that international coalition, to stop the houthi attacks in the red sea. it appears this strike was backed not just by the u.s. and the uk, but also bahrain, canada, and the netherlands. part of that international coalition to crack down on these houthi rebels. again, we're getting that reaction from the president, and i should point out, joy, we also are hearing from the houthi media authority, if i can find this statement. here we go. houthi media authority just put out a statement saying, quote, a brutal aggression against our country for which the americans will pay absolutely and without

hesitation. so certainly some indication that this conflict could escalate, but again, we're hearing from the white house for the first time confirming that these air strikes were undertaken inside yemen. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you very much. please come back if you get additional information. coming back to admiral. the significance of that being the group of people, the group of countries that have yoined with the u.s. >> yeah, it's only the beginning. there are at least a dozen nations in total who have signed on to this operation. it's called operation prosperity guardian, meaning we're going to keep these shipping lanes open. this is very pragmatic. this is not some idealogical campaign against houthis. this is about keeping these shipping lanes open and not allowing these forces to simply

strike at our warships and above all our commercial shipping. and number two, as you just heard, it's about the coalition, gabe correctly listed five or six countries. there are more who are joining this coalition. i think you're going to see more of this. and frankly, it's warranted. we have warned the houthis. we have been defensive for months. it's about time we took this campaign to shore. final thought, we face something similar, joy, about ten years ago. you may kind of recall somali pirates off the coast of east africa. the movie "captain phillips" this is a much more sophisticated and dangerous version of that. it required ten years ago that we go ashore. this is that step, and i'm very happy to see the administration take this point. no one wants violence. no one wants war. but this is the right response to what we have been observing.

>> i know you said final thought, but i want to keep you for one more question because i want to take advantage of your knowledge of the region. just to explain, to give context for those who are watching, to understand who the houthis are, what is their relationship to iran, and also, please explain a little bit of the context of how this is related to the october 7 attack in israel and israel's response in gaza, because my understanding of it is the houthis were in a civil war inside of yemen, i believe there's a cease-fire temporarily in that civil war inside yemen between the houthis and governmental forces. but the houthis began this in response to israel's response to the hamas attack, so what is the relation there and what is iran's relationship to them? >> yeah, joy, you have described it perfectly. what is going on in yemen is a civil war that has gone on for years. with iran backing one set of

protagonists and the arab nations, saudi arabia, uae, bagging the other. they're showing yemen. it's down there at the corner. what people recognize is where that corner sits in terms of shipping, again, 15% of the world's shipping passes right by yemen. and so there's been this ongoing civil war. you're correct, there had been a cease-fire, and as a result of the october 7th attack and the israeli counterattack, iran has encouraged these houthis to go after shipping. and not to confuse people, but it's hamas, hezbollah, and houthis. what do they have in common other than they all begin with an h, they all are part of the iranian proxies in the region. really what you're seeing is part of that larger conflict between israel and iran playing

out. and thus, dangerous times, and we all ought to worry about this expanding. again, the administration has moved very judiciously, very carefully here, but made the right move to try to shut this down. >> i always appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, retired admiral james stavridis. you're so knowledgeable and help us to learn more and become more knowledgeable about the region. thank you for your time tonight. all right, we'll be right back. i'm an active mom, but when i laughed, lifted or exercised, bladder leaks were holding me back from doing the things i loved. until, i found a bladder specialist

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. if you listen really carefully, what you'll hear in the distance is the pathetic silence that indicates the complete capitulation of the entire republican establishment to donald trump. from the network that paid out $787 million for peddling his election lies, to the people pretending to run for president against him. if you were fortunate enough to miss trump's town hall with iowa voters last night, fear not. you didn't miss much. other than the decafversion of the all but certainly republican nomination who got an opportunity to sound almost normal with an assist from the friendly hosts at fox. although trump did get plenty of chances to prove he's as danger as he seems as he did some low engy autocratic, side stepping a question about political violence by claiming he would be too busy for retribution against his enemies but it wouldn't be too bad if he did.

and he tried to explain away his plenl to be a dictator on day one by blaming the media. >> the pres picks it up, so i said i'm going to be a dictator for one day. they cut it. they go, i'm going to be a dictator, but they cut the rest of the sentence. no, no, i'm not going to be a dictator. >> or, he could have just let sean hannity bail him out the first time, since now it seems like he really needs it. the version of trump seemingly designed by lachlan murdoch to be palatable enough to be put on life tv, did drop the veil long enough to remind people of color and women exactly who he is. he vowed to create the largest deportation effort in history if he's elected president again. and he bragged about the work of his right-wing supreme court. >> for 54 years they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it. and i'm proud to have done it. we did it, and we did something that was a miracle.

>> trump followed that line about the miracle with a lie about killing babies after birth, which is not a real thing, ever. that also got no pushback from the fox anchors, of course. meanwhile, the two republicans trying to remain relevant in the race spent the night going of not the arsonist atop the republican field, but rather at each other, which our producers have helpfully summarized for you as follows. >> we don't need another mealy-mouth politician who just tells you what she thinks you want to hear. >> but every time he lies, drake university, don't turn this into a drinking game because you will be overserved by the end of the night. >> she's got this problem with ballistic podiatry, shooting herself in the foot every other day. >> he can call me any name and be de9ing as much as he wants. it doesn't change the fact ron is lying because ron is losing. >> meanwhile, the rest of the maga party has long since moved on with his maga cronies throwing everything at the wall

to soothe trump's fragile ego by trying with no evidence, mind you, to make president biden even steven with trump on impeachment. on wednesday, two house committees passed resolutions recommending contempt of gres charges against the president's son, hunter biden. even though hunter biden was very much present for one of those hearings, yesterday. where democrats called out republicans for their lies. >> the witness accepted the chairman's invitation. it just so happens the witness is here. let's take a vote. who wants to hear from hunter right now today? anyone? come on. who wants to hear from hunter? no one. >> for some reason, it makes sense to hold hunter biden in contempt, who has tried to comply. and let me tell you why nobody wants to talk to y'all behind closed doors, because y'all lie. that's the bottom line. >> joining me now is marisa teresa kumar, msnbc contributor and msnbc political analyst

david jolly, who served in congress as a republican before leaving the party. i still cannot figure out why, why he's no longer associated with the party. i don't even know where to begin. i'll start with you, mtk. how do you hold someone in contempt for violating a subpoena when they're literally sitting right there? >> i think they were surprised and they said wait a second, he's still there, but i had my talking points. they can't work off the cuff, which is clear, so they weren't actually able to adapt in the matter that they needed to, but i think this brings us to a larger issue. they're trying desperately to pin something, anything on the president. even if it's his son. and by doing so, they recognize that trump is such a liability, especially when we saw what happened today in the court, where basically, letitia james is saying not only make sure he has to pay a $370 million fine, but at the same time make sure that he can no longer conduct

business as a trump affiliate in his offices ever again in new york city. and that's huge. and the republican congress, they understand that. and that's why this whole thing is a complete ruse against hunter biden. >> it's embarrassing, david, because you know, first of all, they're saying this guy is in contempt of congress because he wouldn't come and go before a behind closed doors meeting with us because he wants to testify in public. which you would think they would want if they had anything on the president. that's number one. number two, as eric swalwell pointed out, they have got members who refused subpoenas. 600 some odd days later, jim jordan is still in defiance of a congressional subpoena. how can you say we want our subpoenas to be, you know, we want you to comply with our subpoenas when we ourselves don't comply with subpoenas? >> because it's the republicans. hypocrisy is their currency. so look, i think what we're seeing in the hunter biden, you know, strategy, if you will, is

he is clearly subscribing to the notion if you can't win the process, win the story. so he's not going to win the process. republicans have the votes, but he can win the story. which is exactly what we're talking about. this is someone who is trying to comply. i think we're also seeing a legal strategy. one of the things that abbe lowell said, they sent five different letters to the committee saying we'll do it this way or how about this way, and they got no response. congress is going to hold hunter biden in contempt and make a criminal referral to the department of justice. doj doesn't really want to take criminal referrals but they especially don't want to take this one where we have publicly seen hunter biden try to comply. this is a legal defense, but it also is a political and public defense, saying i might lose the process, but i'm going to win the story. >> i mean, they are already saying they're going to send this referral to the justice

department, and if merrick garland doesn't prosecute hunter biden for contempt of congress, they're going to impeach him, they're going to impeach mayorkas over the border, they're going to impeach joe biden. they have a long list of impeachments. democrats have described it as the oprah winfrey story. you get an impeach; you get an impeachment. this is what they're going to take to their voters and say this is why you should re-elect us. i personally don't get it, but is there some base out there that says this is what they want, not roads, bridges, something? >> joy, this is a challenge. we keep trying to say that the republicans are actually for something, that the purpose of government is to actually fix it. but for many of them, they want to drown government. they want to turn the american people off. they want to make it feel like it's icky and that government cannot do anything. they're actually following a strategy. and while it will turn some of those folks on of their base, it will turn a vast majority of americans off. so we have to be very clear that

it is a strategy because you're absolutely right. there's so many issues facing us as a country that we should be tackling, and they're obfuskating and dragging their feet because they don't want to do tough things, that's policy for betterment of the american people. >> david, can we spare a thought for chris christie here, who give him credit, lawrence o'donnell, he had us giggling last night, saying this is the one time he had respect for chris christie, but i have to say, i respect what he's tried to do. he's a lonely voice that speaks very plainly, in a plain spoken language about what trump is, because he knows the man. he's known him for 25 years. he knows he's a crook. he knows he doesn't care about his base at all. what do you think he winds up doing, because he has said he's going to do everything he can to prevent trump from being elected president again. what can he do? who is his audience? >> yeah, i think he possibly ends up speaking at the dnc, endorsing joe biden, and hitting the campaign trail for him. that reflects his words.

now, i think we have to look at chris christie's trajectory over the last decade. he endorsed donald trump initially back in the first race. he led his transition team. he thought he might be vice president. when that didn't work out, things got a little sour. but the one thing you have to give him credit for is he's been perfectly consistent this race. he was running to be a foil to donald trump and say that donald trump is a danger to the country. if donald trump is a danger to the country and he is the republican nominee, then chris christie better support joe biden publicly. i hope he joins the coalition that supports the re-election of the president. >> we will see. then the other issue, two issues. republicans want one and don't want the other. the one they want is immigration. they're doing brown scare again. so far, this does not seem to have cost them as many latino votes as one might think because there is somewhat of a base inside of, you know, the latino

base that's for republicans and trump. and then there's the abortion one, which they don't want any piece of. donald trump tried to kind of walk a line with it and sound reasonable about it, but this is a losing issue for them. women are going to die, women are already dying. it's a problem. how do those two issues play into this election year? >> so i think one of the things that we keep talking about in the media is lutein owes are shifting republican, and the data, joy, just doesn't add up, quite frankly. during the midterm elections what we saw from pew was that there was a dip in latino turnout and the people who turned out were republican because they did get reached out to. this is an opportunity for the democrats to say, if you want to win, you're going to make sure that latinos that have supported you historically continue to support you at a record level. that means talking to them and investing in them. to your point, the immigration happening at the border, that's not an immigration issue. that's a crisis. and latino communities all around the country, they want safe borders as well.

you know what else they want? they want to make sure their loved ones who were essential workers who made sure we were thriving during covid, they families can come out of the shadows and actually get relief. that's a domestic policy issue, and the republicans don't want to touch that because they know even moderate independent republicans believe that someone who has been paying taxes here for 20, 30 years, they too deserve a shot at the american dream in a fair, square way. i also think that whole abortion issue is absolutely a loser, and that's why trump knows that and republicans are trying to back pedal, but that's too late. >> a national abortion ban, i don't know how they think that's the answer. that's not going to fly. thank you both very much. coming up, the u.n.'s highest court begins hearing arguments accusing israel of committing genocide in gaza. key takeaways from the first day of this landmark case when "the reidout" continues.

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vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. available as vyvgart for iv infusion and also as vyvgart hytrulo for subcutaneous injection. additional side effects for vyvgart hytrulo may include injection site reactions. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart. >> today as u.s. media attention has been largely focused on donald trump or hunter biden, around the world a major hearing with massive implications, which began at the international court of justice at the hague, it's a much bigger story. as lawyers for the republican of south africa laid out their case that israel's bombardment of gaza amounts to genocide. >> for the past 96 days, israel has subjected gaza to what has been described as one of the heaviest conventional bombing campaigns in the history of

modern warfare. they are also at immediate risk of death by starvation, dehydration, and disease as a result of the ongoing siege by israel, the destruction of palestinian towns, the insufficient aid being allowed through to the palestinian population, and the impossibility of distributing this limited aid while bombs fall. >> during the three hour hearing, south africa argued that israel has not only committee genocidal acts but also acted with genocidal intent, using public statements by members of the israeli government to make their case. >> members of the knesset have repeatedly called for gaza to be wiped out, erased, and crushed on all its inhabitants and they have deployed deplored anyone feeling sorry for the an involved cousins.

certain repeated leave that there are no an involved and that there are no innocence in gaza and the killers of the women and children should not be celebrated from citizens of gaza and the children have brought this on themselves and that there should be one sentence for everyone there, death. >> south africa also asked the icj to impose a preliminary order to stop the guidance in gaza while the case plays out, which could take years. israel, which has vehemently dark delight denied these allegations, will present its defense tomorrow. joining me now, the executive director of human rights watch. thank you so much for being here. i did watch these hearings today. it was traumatic, particularly the second gentleman you saw. when he began quoting ministers in the israeli government, including the prime minister, how much could those words wind up playing, or how could those words wind up playing out in these hearings? >> well, south africa has made

the charge in front of the united nations highest court that israel's military operations and resulted in violations of the geneva convention convention of genocide. it's also saying these statements that you heard being read out by israeli political and military officials amounted to evidence of a clear intent to destroy palestinians in gaza as a group, in part or in whole. and that is what the case for genocide turns on. and so what south africa is saying is that there is a clear reference, from the active these really military on the ground and those genocidal statements and directives are actually being implemented in the military operations on the ground, and they're also arguing that israel is not doing enough to prevent genocide, which they believe is an obligation under the genocide convention. >> the death toll right now is

23,469, estimated, dead since the october 7th attacks. 56,604 wounded, more than 7700 missing under rubble. that's according to gaza's media offices. let's talk about the coalitions at play here. supporting south africa, the countries that include saudi arabia, 56 members of the islamic cooperation, including saudi arabia, turkey, bolivia, venezuela supporting israel, the u.s., -- germany and austria. they were looking for normalization with israel not that long ago. one of the significance is of these coalitions? >> i think actually we want to talk about the significance of the coalitions in relation to this case, we should look at the parties of the genocide convention who have welcomed south africa's application. they include bangladesh, bolivia, jordan, malaysia, the

maldives, pakistan, turkey, venezuela. and you are right, the oh ac also issued a statement. but also frances u.n. ambassador in new york said that francis strong supporter of the international court of justice and win back the courts decisions. i think the important thing to take away from this is that this is an independent court. it will hear this very important case based on its merits. and because, as we said in the beginning, the threshold to prove intent and the crime of genocide is quite difficult to prove. this is exactly the reason why the international court of justice case is so important. we know, as you were talking about, the death count is terribly high. we know that thousands of civilians have been killed in amongst those thousands of children. so the situation on the ground

is so grave that it does merit the world courts scrutiny. >> this is the deadliest conflict in modern history, more dead than in places like aleppo. what is the significance of it being south africa? there is a long history of the former government during apartheid in these really government back in those days, but what is the significance of it being south africa, and, for instance, not an arab country that's bringing this case? >> it's important and it's a positive development that we see a country like south africa being willing to take this matter up and the international court of justice. it's not the first time we have seen principled action from african states on atrocity crimes and crimes of sub scale. actually it was a few years ago that we saw gambia, the small landlocked country of south africa, bring forth of a case

of genocide in myanmar in relation to the persecution and attacks on the rohingya population. i think there is precedent for a country with strong judicial and constitutional foundations to be able to elevate matters of international concern to international courts. and so i think that it is an important development that this comes. and i think because it's south africa, it isn't an arab country, and it shows you that when we are dealing with atrocity crimes, when we're dealing with crimes, as serious as genocide, it consumes all countries. >> indeed. tirana hassan, thank you very much. that is tonight reidout. all in with chris hayes starts now. ye >> tonight, on all in. >> if i want to go all my trials. >> trump shows up in court for