of dateline, i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. happy saturday and welcome to morning joe: weekend, we've got a lot to get to let's dive into the week's top stories. you are both in a sonar, i am a business owner. i own a small business and time

is money. would you ever allow a shutdown in the future? >> a shutdowns in terms of covid? i let the governors make their decisions, some of them from south carolina, you know and frankly, north dakota a few of them tennessee, they didn't shut down at all. florida did shut down, ron desantis shut down, or ron desanctimonious as he is known. he shut his state down, very violently down. he shut the highways down. >> donald trump criticizing ron dissents for his response to the covid-19 pandemic at a town hall last night at iowa, it aired on fox news. that happened not too far where desantis was on with former u.n. ambassador nikki haley at a debate that trump chose not to attend. republican presidential governor ron desantis joins us

now from altoona iowa. >> what happened yesterday, as you are well aware. i'm looking at this fat check for march 1st 2020, the headline is. trump praises florida governor despite criticism of coronavirus response. he called you a great governor. i actually know a little bit about florida, from my memory donald trump was actually attacking you, back in 2024 not shutting down the state down more? is that correct? >> look joe, this is the number one crisis he faced as president. he chose to defer to anthony fauci. they were running commercials in october of 2020 for his reelection, bragging that he followed everything fauci said. when fauci, donald trump's last day in office he gave fauci commendation. he forcibly shut down the

cruise industry, churches on military bases, they were pressuring states. when brian kemp really or bend georgia and april. donald trump was in the white house podium and attacked him for doing that. he was saying school should be close they attacked me in the summer of 2020 when florida's first covid wave and we have schools and businesses open. it is massive gaslighting. he was able to do that on fox with no pushback, which was the is par for the course at this point. the reality is he, knows that he dropped the ball in that. >> you can't your campaign last night said, and i'm sure your campaign will take this as a compliment, it said last night what we said today, fox news is in the tenth for donald trump, it looked like a re-elect commercial for donald trump. >> yes, i did a tunnel how within the day before.

i had about a half a dozen left when plants, including people that rushed the stage when i was up there. which is fine, we roll with the punches. i don't think there is many critical questions. incidentally, we have debate in iowa at the same time he was invited he could have gone, he just hasn't done any debates yet. he knows he can get away with that type of gaslighting in that venue. he knew he wouldn't be able to get away with it when we are on the debate. here is the thing, he was breaking in 2020 that he shut down the greatest economy in the world. he used to say he saved millions of lives to do that. now we know's republican voters think that was a mistake. but he cannot admit that he made a mistake. i think as a leader, if something doesn't work you course correct. voters appreciate, it is a refreshing when you acknowledge that you got something wrong. donald trump just cannot do that. >> i'm curious, do you think donald trump is up to did baiting? here's a guy that repeatedly thinks that barack obama as

president of the united states, and that's who is running against. he talks about world war ii, he makes these bizarre gaffes when he's really tired. are republicans gonna put in the general election a guys debated in months in primary season? >> that is the thing, you go back to october 2020. that first trump biden debate when donald trump was the incumbent president, and biden beat him in the debate pretty soundly. we've been a situation where we've got three for years down the road, clearly donald trump is not the same trump from 2016. when he gets off the teleprompter there's a lot of mistakes, stream of consciousness stuff. just from a position of okay you, want to battle-tested candidate, you want someone you know who's gonna be able to handle, donald trump we have no idea how's gonna do in a debate setting. they made a strategic judgment that he is way more to lose by debating.

>> you mentioned the word gaslighting, is it also gaslighting to really talk about the threat of a trump presidency, a second one. is donald trump a threat to our democracy? we >> have course have been talking about seal team six, his lawyers actually arguing that he could do seal team six to execute someone like you, one of his political opponents. >> this idea of presidential immunity has not really ever been vetted by the supreme court. i think that admission by the lawyer, that statement, that lost him in the case of the d.c. circuit. the d.c. circuit is definitely gonna rule against him. another question is does the supreme court take the case? i made the point at the debate last night, going on this road where we are going with the legal issues in the trials in the january six being the center of the election. we are giving the democrats a huge advantage. those are terms that the democrats would love to fight the election on, it's not gonna be good for donald trump.

and then you may be in the situation where the fate of the republican party is determined by a jury, on all democrat jury in washington d.c.. is that really the direction we want to go, with all of this stuff? we have a choice to make. obviously i was gonna be exciting because it's gonna be negative 15 degrees, these are the true believers that's going to come out. that is really the stakes here. >> but i mean when you speak to vote for voters in iowa, or new hampshire. you can speak to stolen documents that donald trump claims are his, he says he took. you can't speak to the concept of how unbelievably wrong it is to take money from foreign governments. january six, the insurrection. trying to overturn the election. again i ask, is donald trump a threat to our democracy? >> here's what i would say, the rhetoric of donald trump to me a lot of it is bluster. when he actually was in power,

he had an opportunity to use valid constitutional authority to take action. for example, we address last night at the debate, he is now saying he'll send in the military to crack down on crime in the inner cities. you can't just do that, willie nearly. but when there's up here evil and riots like the blm, he could set in the national guard. he was tweeting law and order, but he didn't actually do it. but the rhetoric versus the reality, being a strong versus a weak president. i wish he wouldn't have leaned in more and some of these issues, that he promised to do and didn't do. >> governor good morning, let's talk about you and your campaign for a moment. i was looking at polls from a year ago. they had you leading in many cases in this republican primary or within a margin of error of donald trump, as we sit here on the eve of the iowa caucus, our pool says you're losing by 32 points, average of

50 points nationally. what is your assessment of why that has happened over the last year or so, what do you say to your supporters who don't think you have a shot in iowa? >> my folks know that we have a great operation here. we are doing it the right way in iowa, it is grinding. it is not as flashy, but we have true believers. we have tens of thousands of people committed, which we do. they are willing to go out in negative 15-degree temperatures, and make their voice heard. they are gonna do that. that's gonna be really helpful for us, as we look over the long haul. so much of this stuff is how medias portraying. for example, donald trump has praetorian guard with the conservative media. if he had been debating it, would put in us in a position to do a national merit. it's different, it's portrayed as he's being inevitable it's

reflected in these polls. when people get to go in there and vote, that brings clarity. and we're gonna be able to be off to the races for their. we are excited about monday night, we've done it the right way. we've got a lot of passionate supporters who believe in the mission. and they're gonna go out there and make their voice heard. >> governor sent to us good morning, i want to get your reaction to the newest headlines, that former governor chris christie of new jersey is dropped out of the race, he was caught on a hot mic last night, recalling the conversation he had with you in which he deems you were, petrified. tell us what he meant by that? >> i've been i've served in fallujah and remote it, nothing about the political stuff would petrified me, i don't know where he got that. i called him to offer him a courage man but i thought he had been treated parolee, what people demanding to get off the rage. it's all good. but i do think, it's not gonna

be a big factor in i what. he wasn't competing here. in that sense, we are all systems go through monday. i think that is our soul focus. >> republican presidential candidate ron desantis, thank you for coming on the show. >> thanks so much. >> all right, we've got iowa. how does it break negative 15-degree weather, is that the trump people going to come out? the hard-core desantis and haley people? what is the general thought there? >> if you look at all the candidates and who has the most excitement about on their base, it's trump. you assume that people who really like donald trump and who want to stick it to everybody who has been saying he's going to jail, or all these cases against him go against what the media narrative is. they want to make sure he gets the nomination.

that's something folks in iowa are tuned to. they're gonna be a lot of people that go out there for desantis or nikki haley. they don't have the fervor that of trump people. it's a caucus, it's very different. it's very public. if you've been saying this whole time your trump gal, and you get up there you are on the wrong side, you have to think about the neighbors think about it. there's >> something about iowa, you take trump out of it. we stand up in front of your kids basketball players, and then say okay i'm actually gonna caucus for the other candidate. what if you want your kid to get on the basketball team? it can human diet and the manus can matter a lot, and we know with trump, people feel afraid of either saying they like or saying they don't like trump. take that dynamic into a caucus setting you get people who might not want to caucus for trump that feel pre pressure to do so.

>> you are exactly right, what if your little league, coach what if your boss at the john deere dealership is a huge trump guy. and you need extra shifts? it just doesn't work. >> stay with us, morning joe: weekend returns after a short break. a shor break. progressive makes it easy to save with a quick commercial auto quote online. so you can get back to your monster to-do list. -really? -get a quote at progresivecommercial.com.

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get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it. i'm proud to have done it. they wanted to get it back. there would be no question. we didn't. we did something that was a miracle. >> welcome back to morning joe, top of the hour it's thursday january 11th, candy case still with us joining the table democratic congressman nancy pelosi we have so much to discuss with you this morning

just coming off of hearing donald trump last night in the town hall discussion breaking about overturning roe or terminating i guess something is very part of it up but politically will that happen the elections have ramifications as we know. >> first of all lovely to be with you. welcome back. my one of the things that he has said, i didn't see last night. he has said is that, obama care socks. this is in keeping with his attitude with keeping to the health and well-being of the american people, and how's rights to choose is a part of that. women should choose when they have a family. if we go forward in this campaign, what we are doing is

making sure people are aware of that. as you may recall, in 2018 when we won people said, were you lucky that that health care emerge as such an issue in the campaign. i said no, we weren't lucky we made our own luck. we had 10,000 events around the compete where people told our stories, it wasn't about provisions it, was about personal experience. >> is joe biden making his own look? >> we helped him do that, again election campaigns are about mobilization outside, and he is our centerpiece. as we did then, we will have thousands of events around the country, with our veterans and their health care. with the pact act under joe biden. this is remarkable, with a romans right to choose and what that means with the people with disabilities, what it means in the affordable care act. these are all economic issues for family.

they are health and wealth being first and foremost, but their financial health as well. this is a big issue for them, the cost of poor stricken grubs. they want to reverse what we did in the affliction reduction at, reduce the negotiate. -- we reduce the cost of insulin from five $600 a month for seniors on medicare to $35 a month. they want to reverse that. again, health is essential issue for us. our ruins right to choose is essential. >> building on the work you've done, i know it was one of your most incredible achievements. you told me that. i think as of yesterday we, have the h h s decorative talking about record enrollment, 20 million people. are they all democrats? no republicans like it? i don't think so. people like their health care. >> >> if it ten-year-old girls

raped in ohio they don't want politicians telling that ten-year-old girl what to do, they want the parents and the priests, the pastors, health care people to help them out. if you look at schools, parents are afraid to send their kids to school because of guns. donald trump wants more guns on the street of america. you go down about he's, talking about executing generals. he's talking about wanting economy to be destroyed this year wrecking seniors retirement. how is this race even close? you wonder >> it makes you wonder about people once you read obamacare sucks, he wants to be a dictator for at least

a. day not to talk about him, he is what is he is. but to talk about what it means in peoples lives, when he talks about drawer bragging about overturning roe v. wade. this is something young people care about. i talked about the election before. i'm talking politics now, yesterday the republicans couldn't pass a rule on the floor they dismissed as all for the day. >> have you ever seen a any congress run as badly as this republican house of the past year? >> in this 35 years i have been there, it's pretty terrible. again we have to win. in the last election all the putter and said we're gonna lose 30 40 seats, and i knew that was wrong. i thought we could hold the house, because of what you just named. that list, guns, climate, woman's right to choose,

democracy. people said oh democracy doesn't matter, roe v. wade is the rearview mirror. no it wasn't. we could see in each individual race, we learned we lost five in new york, but we will win those back. people understand. we talk about freedom and democracy. that is an important value. it is everything. but it's personal to. it's personal about your personal freedom, about having a family. who you are lgbtq. about having the freedom to engage in business. the previous segment is ridiculous. that is so ridiculous that they wouldn't want the best in our country, and the best means to have a beautiful diversity in america working in our private sector. >> i will say president obama -- but you did such a heroic job

for him. we are talking about it being close in terms of the presidential election, it's also close in terms of how how districts, you know when you go around the country. how do you count for that when you look at this particular congress, which is spectacularly failed to achieve really any legislation of importance for american people. what do you hear from people when you go around the country about why it is so close? >> we are now in election season, we weren't before. and now it's time for us to make the case and for them, people will pay more attention now. they haven't been paying attention. they have to know, you've heard me say 1 million times. lincoln said public sentiment is everything, with it you can accomplish almost anything. without it practically nothing. but for sentiment to prevail people have to know. so now we have to have their attention. young people who are ambivalent what comes next have, to know

what it means in terms of a woman's right to choose, lgbtq, what it means about the planet. what it means about guns. these are issues that they care about. they have to know the difference between democrats. >> stay with us, morning joe: weekend returns after a short break. a shor break. i know what it's like to perform through pain. if you're like me, one of the millions suffering from pain caused by migraine, nurtec odt may help. it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. she found it. the feeling of finding the psoriasis treatment she's been looking for. she found sotyktu, a once—daily pill for moderate—to—severe plaque psoriasis... for the chance at clear or almost clear skin.

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two congressional committees voted along party lines to formly recommend the full house hold hunter biden and of congress for defying a subpoena them. despite the fact he's shown up to testify. early in the day, hunter made a surprise appearance of the house oversight committee hearing. sitting in the audience with attorneys for the first 30 minutes. some members of congress addressing him directly, while sparring with each other.

>> you are the epitome of white privilege, coming into this oversight committing ignoring a congressional subpoena that we dispose. what are you afraid of? you have no -- to come up here >> mister chairman? >> if she wants to hear from hunter bilin right now we can hear from right now? >> hold on, order. >> hunter biden should be arrested right here right now. go straight to jail. >> mister chairman, i ask you an unanimous consent to enter information for the record. >> what is the information? >> i reserve the right to object. >> the minority is not provided a copy of the material for, and the path she's displayed pornography. it's not allowed to be this blade in this committee. room >> it's not progressive.

>> it's you're the expert. >> i am not an expert. >> and she did in fact hold up a nude photograph of hunter biden, in the united states house of representative. >> meanwhile democratic congressman of florida pointed out the obvious republican hypocrisy on the matter. >> listen up all make this bipartisan, all vote for hunter you'll get my vote, but i want you to show the american people that you are serious. here is the subpoena to representative scott perry who did not comply elect entered that into the. record >> here is the subpoena to mark meadows, he did not comply intern to. record >> here is the subpoena to jim jordan who did not comply with a lawful subpoena. enter that into the record. here's the subpoena to mow brooks, who did not comply. enter that into the record. here is the subpoena to mr. biggs, who did not comply. enter that into the record. here's the peanut to mr. macarthur who did not comply, enter that into the record.

there's an amendment coming to add some of those names, into the contempt order. you vote to add those names, and show the american people that we apply the law equally. not just when it's democrats, it's a crime when it's democrats. but one is trump in his republican it's just fine. show that you are serious. everyone is not above the law. vote for that amendment, and i'll vote for the hunter biden contempt. >> they did not vote for that amendment. >> joining me in that first clip, congresswoman may see screaming at hunter biden for not having the stones let's put it that way, to show up and testify. as he's literally sitting in the room, willing to testify. they don't want it to happen in an open form. >> chairman comer said with a straight face, hunter biden no one is above the law in america, as they spend most of their professional lives defending donald trump against the charges against him. >> i thought it was interesting, from green acres he whispered

the line into his ear, and he repeated. it still the smartest guy in the side of the aisle, is -- it was an old tv series green acres, where the pig was the smartest guy in town. but anyway. >> i love donald. he was a charm a pig. >> the smartest in town. >> nancy mace, it has to be dizzying. i'm a reasonable person. you don't have -- . i had sex with my boyfriend in a -- . seriously? we have a description, it's called a runaway beer truck. that is what she is. let's underline hypocrisy the jerry mosque which showed, those were all member of congress. all members of congress that or

-- >> acting like schoolyard bullies. in a revolting way. >> they said that hunter biden did not have the stones we shall say to testify. he was there to testify in public. but they did not have the guts to let him testify, they did not want transparency. they did not want the american people to hear the truth. they wanted to take it behind closed doors. republicans shooting themselves in the political foot. >> first of all, why is it the republicans don't have the guts but hunter biden's doesn't have the stones. >> thank you for saying stones, this the hypocrisy is it self explanatory. i remember the white house saying when it was a really close, when the house underperformed for republicans in the midterms, they love the idea, and they saw this coming, that this was going to be the

circus that was gonna be front and center for the republican party. sort of the sideshow to donald trump. >> what are they getting done by the way? well they're doing all this? any good stuff on top. >> a deal to fund the government? >> jacqui historically, this is the leak least effective congress and in a generation. they passed less legislation, this house has done less. >> this vaudeville ian circus like show that we saw yesterday, not just the hunter biden criminal contempt, but the first hearing to impeach alejandro mayorkas, sort of covered up the bigger issue that mike johnson is facing right now. the complete collapse of the deal that he claims he negotiated. it's really the same deal that kevin mccarthy hashed out to uphold is green with joe biden in the biden administration. >> when republicans voted to kill, they vote you shouldn't

vote against your own party's rule. >> the same thing happened again. hard-line right republicans who are not in favor of this additional spending, the 69 billions of a side agreement that has killed fast. and it's headed for a government shutdown. exact same problems again. that republicans faced three months ago. when mike johnson made the case for wide be a better speaker than kevin mccarthy. >> really quickly, is ukraine can get to get funded? is most importantly for domestic politics, are republicans going to do the deal to toughen up protections at the southern border? that >> is in limbo. these hard-line republicans who think the government is worth shutting down if the staunch border security bill that the house passed last may, and they are not willing to accept the bipartisan package negotiate in the senate which is now also falling apart over a few

different provisions specifically, parole and expediting award permits. there are a lot of unknowns on both sides here. it's all to say there is at least another week of negotiations, and no we are not near funding. >> up next, michelle obama explains what terrifies her about the 2024 election. stay with us. stay with us sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the lyte™. caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent.

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election, i'm terrified about what could not possibly happen. our leaders matter. who we select, who speaks for us. it affects us in ways that i think people take for granted. the fact that people think that government, man, it doesn't really movie into anything. i'm like, oh my god. government does everything for us. we cannot take this democracy for granted. sometimes i worry that we do. those are the things that keep me up. >> former first lady michelle obama who says the possible results of the 2024 election keeper up at night. micah let me ask you, how important is it that michelle obama stays engaged from now through the election, having her voice her in voice out there.

seen with barack obama. how important is it that they keep that message out there, was two of the most popular people, if not the two most popular people in the democratic party. >> you gave the reason. they are incredibly popular. they draw huge clouds. michelle obama has our own incredible following. the two of them can turn out others. a lot of people like joe biden, needs to do this or that. everybody needs to get on it. i hope, that is not the last time we see michelle obama. i so we see her on the campaign trail. i hope we see here president obama on the campaign trail, i hope they galvanize other big names. people with big followings to get involved in this election, as it is. the election of a lifetime. eugenia of a new piece in the washington post, entitled biden must elevate the democratic

leaders if he wants to win. >> it's an all hands situation. i wrote about out there in the country people like, stacey abrams, julian castro, jaime harrison who runs the dnc. i want to hear more -- >> mayors, governors. that's >> the tennessee to. i want to hear more from all those people. i want their voices raised, and elevated by the biden campaign and by the party apparatus. they need to be out there spreading that gospel. i think it's highly significant actually that michelle obama, came out and talked about politics and the election this early and that explicit away. it's no secret, she is not

always loved politics. she is not always loved the fray and, and it's important enough to get involved in its dignify can't and i think it's a hopeful sign. >> i know michelle obama doesn't like pamela tips. first lady dr. jill biden came into this thing it's not about us or them. it's about democracy, and joe coming up on the show by the way. we have governor andy beshear, who is going to talk about trying to galvanize -- various standing right by now. he's trying to galvanize democrats and red states, or anybody who cares about the constitution. >> an american democracy, michelle bahamas brought it up. she's talking about how precious the democracy is.

how it's keeping your up at night. michelle obama is one of a handful of people who make a huge choice. looking at the front page of the new new york times, they do a deep dive on iowa the talk about how iowa in 2012 was blue, deep blue and how it is now turned deep red. or at least purple. they talk about barack obama winning in iowa. we talk about e we talk with revenue out a good bit about the fact that joe biden is not doing as well with black voters as he should be. when you hear michelle obama or barack obama, the first thought is of course to men they can really help entered jean's uninspired the most important boiled in the democratic party. that is the most loyal vote, that is getting black voters to

the polls to save democracy again. as they did in 2020. >> i look at states of iowa, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, that barack obama won. it is not just about black voters. the importance of the obamas getting out and talking to all voters in swing states, it seems to me especially if you look at their track record, it would be extraordinarily helpful. >> it's interesting reading that piece. one of the reasons that i will change, we have college educated i winds leaving the state. this is the big new faultline in america, college educated americans vote democratic, and conservatives without a college degrees stay behind in the state. i don't even know if there's much that the obamas could do today, it's a different state from what it was.

certainly and chainsaws of translating legislative victories. everything the they achieved, -- whether it's with black voters or whether independent voters, that is something the master communicator barack obama ought to be able to help with. >> coming up, what is old is new again. we'll speak with a reporter for the new york times who traded her smartphone for a flip phone. hear how that turned out, next. t turned out, next whenever heartburn strikes. get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. also available tums+ sleep support. ♪♪ here's to... one year bolder. ♪♪ ♪boost♪ nutrition for now.

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>> really? ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it's time for a phone. >> really? >> to save us, from our phones. >> oh my god.

>> stop, joe. >> micah has been running through neighborhoods, booking the show with a phone right here, and has run into parked cars. >> i face plant on the front. i was booking our, gosh it was back for the first campaign, president barack obama. i have a vault. back in 2010, microsoft was already warning about the addictive nature smartphones. more than a decade later, things seem to have hit critical mass leading sums to make changes more lives. among them is cashmere hill a features writer at the new york times. she ditched her iphone for a flip phone, in the month of december. and loved the reset it provided. cashmere joins us now, she covers technology and privacy

issues for the times. i should tell you that joe down to this. he texas kids, dad on flip all day. and only as kids can reach him. and i field all of his calls on my smart phone. >> joan has a flip phone. nobody has the number. >> cashmere as you write it helps that then they call micah. you did say something it's important not just because it narrows it down to my kids in a few other people. it's also important for all the reasons you write about in this article. you aren't looking at your phone every 14 seconds. it does reset you, you are better in all parts of your life but, talk about how important it is. there is one thing you say that is so true that even when we try our best, the world that we

live in requires at times to go back to it. it is hard to go toe a flip phone with the rest of the world is on a smartphone. >> for me it was so nice to unplug my brain from the internet for a long period of time. that is the thing about smartphones it gives us access to everything. i think that's what makes it so addictive. at the same time we live in a very smart phone-centric world. there are things that couldn't do. i have an electric car, and i went to pull into charge it and realized i can't log into this charger without a smartphone app. to factor authentication, a lot of sites and services we use including the new york times, i had to write this article to sign in i needed to provide a code from an authentic keyshawn app on my smartphone. so i had to cheat to write the article. >> so talk a little bit about

the process of decompression, of getting over the injection how hard was it did you go through a fomo period, where there any particular apps that you missed. apart from the technical ones and logistical ones. >> actually it was a surprise to me that there wasn't a lot that i missed about my phone. i would say there was a two-week period where i would go to elevators at the new york times office and everybody's are waiting for the elevated gets their phone out and start looking at it. i would have this kind of physical urge to rub my thumb along the phone. i call it my thumb twitch, it took about two weeks to for that to go away. in moments of boredom, moments where my mind was wandering i didn't have the urge to check my phone. that was a thing that surprised me, how quickly that happened. my sleeping really improved

over the course of the month. i wake up a lot in the middle of the night, i'll try to fall back asleep in the not reach for my iphone. i will be upfront our two hours, three hours reading articles. doing christmas shopping in december. when i switched to the flip phone, i will wake up in the middle of the night and i fall back to sleep after a few minutes. it made me realize how harmful this has been for my sleep to have the iphone by the bet. >> but now you have the iphone back? or are you still with the flip? >> i am still microphone. i can switch back but i haven't wanted to yet. >> okay, i like it. i think this is fabulous. new york times features writer cashmere hill. your face belongs to us her book, the secret of start-ups quest to and privacy as we know it's available now. we need to talk about that as well. >> that does it for the first

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hour of morning joe, weekend. we have a lot to cover our saturday morning. let's get right to one of the top stories. we have an election coming up. >> a few days. >> it could be tightening, who knows, it could be tightening. >> i know this is your message

of the morning. we are only three days until the iowa caucus and a new poll puts former u.n. ambassador nikki haley in second place for the first time. the suffolk university survey has trump still leading with 54% of support from likely caucus goers. nikki haley is at 20% fell about rhonda santas. he's down 30%, still a gap there. joining us now from iowa where it is currently 19 degrees and under a blizzard warning, a senior political columnist from politico. look, he's outside, -- was inside in the warm, outside. >> advice for you, only my friend. i'm here for you, joe. >> i really appreciate, it jay mart. and got somebody's. so fascinating. and i was just one poll, the latest bolatusha nikki haley moving ahead and as you know, in politics, the polls are a snapshot, but they do show momentum. any feel on the ground of haiti

momentum? >> yeah. there's no question that and the subprime area that the -- primary if you want to call it that, that she definitely has got the juice right now over desantis. she is getting good crowds in places like suburban des moines where she is going to need a big vote share on monday. and you talk privately to the trump campaign and they acknowledge that she is now in seventh place, and i think that the anticipation here and i was the trump glance somewhere or round 50, maybe a little below, and that nikki gets into the 20s now. the mid twenties, high twenties, not totally clear, but that is where things are today. trump is going to hang a large margin on her, but she clearly is emerging as the runner-up, which obviously gives her the case joe going to new hampshire, of this is a head to head race, rountree get, out i deserve the lead shot. >> yes, and that is a big question. if you comes in the 20s, first

of all, does ryan get out, second, what does haley do differently between now and new hampshire in order to kind of get potentially what, very close to trump? if not above him in new hampshire? >> well look, i think she has to be -- she has to beat around a sense of decisively for second place. if she's a 27, she's a 25, and she might try to stay in. if she's a 28, she's a 14 or 16, and i think then there is huge pressure on him to get out of the race. to your second question, i think going into new hampshire, she has to make the case that this is it. it is me, i am the only alternative, and frankly, has to go out there and go at trump a little harder it is going to have to make a really hard call, guys. does she want to be the nominee or does she want to be trump's vp? because that is going to shape her attack strategy on trump. that will dictate how aggressive she goes, what currently would she uses. if you want to be vp, she's only going to go a certain distance.

that will be the real tell i think in new hampshire if this is a head to head race there. >> okay, jim art. let's go back to new hampshire, because i think we all agree nikki haley could win new hampshire, but the electorate, they're the republican electorate is different than most of the next primary. she is losing in a home state of south carolina and then a lot of the other states that will happen around them. so does haley have -- what is their pathway posed to hampshire even if she wins? >> not right. no, this is the problem with nikki haley challenging trump is that the party has dramatically changed. trump has realigned the republican party. it's much more of a working class party. and if you look at the cross tabs of any poll, you do not have to be a political scientist or polter to see the glaring, the glaring growing trend which is that trump dominates all comers with lower income, non-college graduates, and basically haleysburg is the pre-trump kind of push era gop. now in new hampshire, a much

more upscale, educated, secular state where independents can vote which you will hear 1000 times in the next ten days, she will do really well, but once you get out of new hampshire and go south and back west, the party looks like trump's party and it is hard to see where she finds votes. >> and jim are to starting to lose, feeling it and this extremities right now and so we are going to give you the last question, and we will see how he reacts in the most difficult of circumstances. >> so jay, mart do you think that there's any chance then that if it does become a 2% rate that trump actually debates, her that we actually see the two of them go at it, or does he continue the strategy of ignoring, not ignoring, because he's actually trashing are quite a lot, but this is actually engage her in the direct way? >> well i think that will be a fascinating internal trump debate. if she does want to new hampshire, does trump then say to his campaign staff, i thought you guys had this thing

wired. you guys told, me no debates, and i lost primary? i'm not listening to you. i am going to debater in south carolina. you can totally see trump doing, that peter. you know well, you covered trump in the white house. that is a plausible knee-jerk reaction from him in a moment of anger which he would commit to a debate. i think that is totally possible. they will try to talk him out of it, i'm sure, but i think he maybe tended to do it if he doesn't fact lose new hampshire to her. i think that this is more of a game now of demography, and i think new hampshire could be a false one for her because it is hard to see where beyond that she could go. you guys know well the history of south carolina. it is a much more of a conservative orange state, in the new hampshire electorate does not dictate what the folks in south carolina do. and bush mccain 2000, we've all seen that movie before. >> and his mouth is not working as effectively as it was a few minutes ago. teeth freezing up. doctor, dave morning joe's

chief medical correspondent tells me that hypothermia sets and in one minute and 45 seconds! so jay marked, politico's jonathan martin, god bless you, sir we want to see you on monday morning. and let's bring in right now assistant democratic leader and national co-chair for the biden campaign, congressman jim clyburn of south carolina. so from the republican side to the democratic side, you know jim, that democrats like to whine and they like to complain and they like to say that the end is coming, but i have to say, i know you've talked to the biden people a lot, i'm talking to them a good bit right now, but they're not nervous. like they are not worried. they know that they have to do some things and get moving out there but they still think that they have issues on their side. what do you think? >> we do have the issues on their side, and i think that we have a candidate. the vast majority of the

american people are comfortable with it and they're comfortable with his service for the last three years, and i think they're going to be very accountable throughout this year and on into the campaign. we have the issues and the candidate, how can you lose? >> we saw a poll out of pennsylvania, just one poll, but it showed joe biden with three points ahead of donald trump, and you go inside and you look at the cross tabs, and this is what blew me away. because i have assumed since the rise of trump that the power comes from places like the villages in florida. it comes from older voters. they are the ones more set and their way. they -- we are not saying that, and while everyone is freaking out about young voters running away from joe biden because of israel, they're going to go back to him. those old voters that, those older voters, those over 65 voters, that is i would argue that is the big story.

i, mean look at that. 60 to 37%. because you know, it and i know it. we don't advertise on ready stations for young voters because they don't vote as much and old voters voting right now they want to vote for joe biden. >> they do want to vote for joe biden because they feel him. they have been getting the benefits out of the inflation reduction act and the modifications to medicare that now allow medicare prices. they mount now -- $2,000 a year, and they're going to pay out of pocket, and pay for the medical services cap on insulin, $35 a month. we feel that. and so i think what's going to happen in the next several weeks, young people are going to begin to feel what it is like, the announcement this morning, if you took out a long

-- loan for lesson $5,000 and ten years later he's still appearing on that loan, as of next month, all of that debt is going to be eliminated. >> because of joe biden and because donald trump's people on the supreme court stop him from going even further, but he still, he got that done just like he got the wiping away of convictions for younger people who had marijuana convictions. nobody is talking about it, but that is another thing again that the press for the most part is completely ignored. >> yes, for the next four years, every two months another 50,000 people that had income based student debt, and the 25,000 with the public service loans, they are going to be eligible for the total elimination of the rest of their debt, and that is going to be every two

months. by the time you get down to june those young people are going to be -- >> and that is all joe biden. >> that is all joe biden. who has been pushing this from the very beginning. >> and by the, way all the people hit by higher interest rates because they probably paid off their mortgages by now as well. they have a benefit there to. >> also, the stock market at record high, 401ks are doing extraordinarily well. and said them trump is saying, i want the stock market crash, i want the economy to crash, but what they are also hearing stone champs saying, i want your life savings in the retirement wiped out so i can get elected president. >> they may be adverse to some of the chaos to. >> up next, conversation with first lady dr. jill biden. stay with us. got it done without a delay.♪ ♪i screened with cologuard and did it my way.♪

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americans have a choice this november. leadership or chaos? i sat down with dr. jill biden

yesterday at the white house for an exclusive one-on-one interview. we discuss the state of president joe biden's reelection campaign, her priorities as first lady, and the attacks against hunter biden and her family. >> you've been married to president joe biden for 46 years. they have been senate races, three presidential campaigns, eight years of your husband serving as vice president. unthinkable personal loss and challenge, and now democracy is on the ballot. what do you think when you hear people say that, i just can't vote for joe biden this election. what is it that they may not know about him at this point, especially when the alternative seems to want to change this nation so rapidly? >> well you know, micah, when i was dating joe, one of the

things that drew me to him was his strength, and i at that point he had been through the death of his wife and baby daughter in a car accident, and then later we experienced the death of our son to cancer. throughout all of this, i saw joe as steady and calm and resist -- resilient. and actually when i got here, i felt that he knew how to rebuild this country because he had rebuilt our family out of tragedy. and i think what people don't see is how hard joe works every single day. that he gets up thinking what he can do for the american people, and he does that -- his job isn't and when we just have didn't together at 7:00. he is on the phone, and he is on the phone with leaders of

foreign countries, and he's on the phone with his cabinet, or he's on the phone with somebody who is lost their home because of a tornado or going through some personal problem. and so i see that strength and that resilience and that steadiness every single day, and he is unflappable. when i look at the man, his integrity's character has not changed, and he is unwavering and he is unflappable. >> yet another presidential campaign. this would be, what your fourth? >> the 14th campaign. potentially another four years in the white house with everything that you do hear. does yet another want to give you any pause thinking of like the personal health and well-being for both of you, the division in this country? the cruelty of maga republicans against your family.

does any part of you once in a while think, oh, maybe we bow out? >> you know, that is why i want to go through yet another campaign, because i think it's joe says, democracy, our freedoms are what is on the line. and so americans have a choice. they can have strong, steady leadership, someone fighting for democracy, or they can choose chaos and division. >> so what you see is your role as first lady now as opposed to a possible second term? any changes that you would make? i know you have a pretty big policy platform now. >> well when we came into office, i knew that i wanted to work on what i've always worked, on military families, cancer, and education. now, i have a new initiative, which is the women's health research initiative because women have been -- women's health has been underfunded always and we need

to have fairness in the amount of money that goes toward research and studying women's diseases, because women are living so much longer with chronic diseases. that has to change, and i took that to joe, and he said yes and signed the executive order. so we are on our way. >> how have you been coping personally with the onslaught of accusations against your husband and your family, including and especially hunter, who is the focus of the house oversight committee hearing, holding him in contempt, obsessing over him, showing a picture of him during vulnerable moments in his battle with addiction on the floor of the house. this would crush any family. >> mika, i think what they are doing to hunter is cruel, and i am really proud of how hunter has rebuilt his life after addiction. i love my son, and it has hurt

my grandchildren, and that is what i am so concerned about, that it is affecting their lives as well. >> what do you hear when you hear trump republicans calling it biden crime family? one congresswoman, the biden crime family saw that america, marjorie taylor greene, he's a liar, he is mentally incompetent, and let's not even talk about what let's go brandon means, but you have u.s. senators holding signs saying that. s >> it's hard to -- our country, what we used to have, and what the other side, the extremists have turned this country into. we would never see things like that say ten years ago. still ahead, we will tell you what the judge and donald trump's civil fraud trial poll this attorneys during some racy closing arguments. g arguments.

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about politics or personal vendetta or about name-calling. this case is about the facts we in the law, and mr. donald trump violated the law. at the end of the day, the point is simple. no matter how powerful you are, no matter how rich you are, that no one is above the law, and that the law applies to all of us equally and fairly. >> new york attorney general letitia james yesterday. the penalty decision and former president donald trump's civil fraud case. now he is in the hands of the judge. the trial against trump, his two eldest sons, and the trump organization ended yesterday in a new york city courtroom after the state attorney generals office and trump's defense team both delivered closing arguments. the former president was

allowed to speak briefly during part of the presentation by his lawyers. the judge asked trump directly if he would quote, promised to just comment on the facts of the law. but naturally, trump ignored him. immediately looking into a five minute rant that broke every one of the judges rules, claiming that he was a innocent man who has been politically prosecuted. the judge called for trump's attorney to control his client before cutting trump off for a scheduled lunch break. the state a.g. is seeking 300 and $70 million in fines and to bar trump from the new york real estate industry. the judge says he hopes to have a decision by january 31st. he is deciding the case because state law does not allow for the juries in this type of lawsuit. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. she was inside the courtroom yesterday. lisa, you are there, you saw and heard this exchange. we should go back a little bit,

the judge engoron made this offer. he said, you can speak on your own behalf with this closing argument if you follow these rules, that was ignored. and then it was back on the table in the courtroom yesterday? >> the offer was not put on the table of formatively by judge engoron, but it was trump's lawyer, who at the end of each of the presentations by the three trump lawyers, renewed that request. you will remember that the trump lawyers ignored the last offer by judge engoron who said, essentially, having failed to meet my third extended deadline, i will take that as a no. nonetheless, it renewed the request and that is when judge engoron asked a former president trump could comply. just two conditions, could you stick to the facts and the law? as noted, former president trump immediately began to speak in the guise of answering the question, basically saying, i couldn't accept you conditions, and here is why, and then proceeded to deliver exactly the speech he would have wanted to. just at twice the pace really and the different cadence that

were used to for former president trump as if he expected to be cut off at any moment. >> so while he's talking, while he's doing everything that the judge told him not to do, what is the reaction from the bench? is he trying to stop him and say that we agreed you talk about the facts, or just go? >> he let him go for a little bit, and you, now it's a different engoron that we've seen. it's sort of a engoron tamed. and one of the things i'm wondering as to what effect were all of the heel of threats against judge engoron and his law clerk. we know the threats with a law clerk and him alone fill 275 single spaced pages, we know that because a security officer filed an officer david explaining that with the gag order. the judge as you know how to bomb threat in his home in nassau county, and then i wonder to what extent that really impacts as decision-making and allowing trump to continue speaking until he just said to chris

christ, mr. christ, pleased control your clients. but he let him go for a while and the attorney generals office did not object either. >> so the judge suggested he make a decision by the end of the month, january 31st. this trump rant yesterday, what sort of role if any do you think that it could play. and is impossible, i heard other lawyer suggest that in a way, this was -- by letting trump speak, this defunding's a possibility he'll opportunity for trump? >> i mean, look. there are a number of instances along the way that could lead to further arguments on appeal, right? by former president trump. that he wasn't given an opportunity to present evidence. their arguments about his experts. this is another argument he could have made, john. but i want to point out to you and our viewers how unusual it is for a party who has a competent team of lawyers to then get up in their own defense during a closing argument, particularly when they skipped an opportunity to testify. closing arguments are not supposed to be testimony. so to the extent that former

president trump yesterday said things that are against centrist, it will be interesting to see if they come up in the decision. one of the things that he said was that he has paid over $300 million in taxes over the period of time at issue in the case. he also said that the only problem in his financial statements had to do with the overevaluation of the trips. that was the sole error. that is one thing that i think could come up in the decision because it shows just how he has been and denying the facts of the case and how he continues to insist that he is blameless. that is a factor that the attorney generals office said that the judge could properly consider when he is awaiting the remedies here. >> and so during the theatrical of this case, we saw more of that yesterday, and then there is a substance. you've been in the courtroom, you are paying very close attention. what is your sense of how the judge made a rule here? could donald trump be prevented from practicing real estate in the state of new york? could he lose all of that money? >> i think the loss of the money is something different. i don't think they will actually confiscate the

properties. do i think that he will award some discouragement remedy in the range of hundreds of millions of dollars? i do. i think for donald trump though, as you noted, the worst outcome here is a bar, a lifetime bar and participation in the new york real estate industry. the other thing that we saw yesterday's really vociferously fence of donald trump junior and eric trump. mark yesterday in your calendars as the day that the two adult son stopped being children, because both sides insisted that the boys not be infantilism, essentially. they've been leading the company for seven years, and their lawyer essentially said that if you buy them from the office of directors for a series of even just five years, there are thousands of trump organization employees who are depending on erik and don junior to capably lead this organization. you're not seeing a defense of them that is sort of saying, oh, these guys don't have anything to do with the organization. they're saying yes, we don't know anything about the accounting, but they're also saying in the same breath that these are the two leaders of

this organization on into the future. and the attorney general sort of twisted that and said, look, they are themselves telling you that these guys are at the helm of the organization, they are not boys anymore. they are not the children. these are grown men in their 40s. they should be treated as grown men who are responsible for the actions and decisions. >> stay with us, morning joe: weekend returns after a short break. break.

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caucus as we're pressure now on speaker mike johnson to kill a bipartisan spending deal, as congress has just seven days now to fund the government. a group of conservative republicans met with the speaker yesterday over issues like the top line cost of the agreement. while members of the caucus said johnson agreed to push for a new deal, the speaker himself said he had made no commitments. the framework of that deal, which johnson agreed to already, with senate democrats and the white house essentially models the agreement that former speaker kevin mccarthy made that effectively costed his gap. these moves come as senate majority leader chuck schumer has begun the process to get a stopgap funding bill through to keep the government afloat. as house republicans sort out their differences. schumer yesterday blasting the far-right republican actions during a speech on the senate

floor. >> there are those on the hard right over in the house who think they can bully their colleagues and the house and the country into a shutdown. amazingly, this band of hard right extremists actually say a shutdown would be a good thing. this shows you that the hard right is not serious about governing. the only tactic in their playbook is to try and bully the rest of congress and the country to bend to their extremist views. so it takes compromise to get anything done in these conditions of divided government. a top line agreement we reached last week has borne that out. >> i think there's a lot of tap dancing right now. i think a deal is going to get done. >> yeah, of course, but can i tell you that that reuters front page, or that reuters poll where they say senate dems, don't worry, we are going to have a stopgap in place while

republicans bicker. in a normal environment, you would think that that was just absolutely a win for democrats, it was a huge political consequence for republicans. i often worry in this environment that with the far right part of the republican party in congress has done is create a permission structure for somebody like donald trump where they are saying, this is all chaos, we have created chaos, this is a chaotic environment, which means that there is less danger than if you are someone who does not believe that government can be an agent for good and injecting more chaos. and some, ways to me, it sets the stage for donald trump. >> yeah, it does, but donald trump set the stage years ago. he has just having opportunities for others to move the pieces for him. he doesn't have to do it directly anymore. so he has mike johnson now who finds himself in a mccarthy-esque moment where he realizes that i have to negotiate a deal. i have people in this corner who are asking him for stuff

that's not going to get done at all. there's no will among republicans in the senate to even bring it up, so why am i going to go through this? so he gets the deal, 1.6 trillion dollar deal, cuts, and no over southern that right wing that we know, right, we know very well. some of whom you may have served with at one time or another, but they're sitting there whispering in the dark saying, no. >> i'll tell you what's going to happen, i think they're going to be rolled again. the far-right is going to get rolled, and then you are going to have biden who once again is going to have another bipartisan deal on the border, on israel, and on ukraine. because at the end of the day, ukraine is in a critical position. people like mike no. if we don't act, they will move. >> you already have some of our international partners getting additional aid. you cason additional fighter jets to ukraine just yesterday. i think when it comes to house

republicans though, this to me is very illuminating because mike johnson is finding out that in this particular congress, and with this house, with these republicans, it really doesn't matter who the speaker is because they are not treating him any better than they were speaking to their speaker mccarthy. and it puts mike johnson in a precarious position with the senate and frankly with the white house because he negotiated, deal comes back, and you can't guarantee that your people are going to vote for the deal. and so now, why would we, as the senate or we as the white house or whoever the other we is in the scenario, why don't we negotiate with you? it seems like when you keep talking with someone else, because we actually do have control over your caucus. and initially, in mike johnson's tenure, when the first deal was negotiated and brought us to january 19th, first deadline, february 3rd, second deadline, and even people who were very critical of mccarthy, he's new, he just became speaker. >> give him some room. >> you have to give him room. >> well now it's january.

how much longer is mike johnson going to be able to ride that wave of, i'm the new guy here. >> and the problem is of course whoever gets it has to deal with him. >> it's all governing. >> it's called governing! so it's going to happen again. >> [inaudible] >> i honestly don't know. again, they are learning that it could be anyone, and so they ousted mccarthy thinking they would get another better deal with speaker mike johnson, who is one of the chief cheerleaders of the thing. they're getting the same thing that they were getting with mccarthy but with someone with way less experiencing and not a lot of fundraising prowess. with wa>> it keeps getting worse, who would guess, the do nothing republicans? so catch the weekend, baby, and i mean, it will change your life! if you are a man, it will reverse male pattern baldness, it will get rid of chicken weed in your backyard. it's going to help you with your backswing. it is going to do everything that you needed to do and it's

not in severe mornings from idioms it's in the right here on msnbc. michael steele, alicia menendez, and symone sanders-townsend, you all will be watched by mika and me every second. we can't wait. thank you guys so much. >> coming up, we will go to the top global risks facing us in 2024. i 2024 right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease.

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middle east are one of the top risks for 2024 according to a new report by eurasia group, but it actually doesn't top the list. joining us now, the coauthor of that report, president and founder of eurasia group and -- media and bremer -- iain bremer. so, even when the world could be number one? what is the top threat? threat >> micah, there are three words

we're facing this year. the russia ukraine war is facing a turning point. we're not very happy about where it's going. the middle east, which is about to escalate significantly, and number one, the united states versus itself, and there is no question that each of these three wars you have a principles and leaders that think of their opponents as their most important adversary, and somebody's enemies of the people. they're willing to use extra legal means to go after them and perhaps most worryingly is that they do not serve basic sets of facts and describing what their intentions are, what they're fighting over, and what victory would mean. that's a very disturbing set of conflicts on the stage today, and the fact that number one, you have no choice but to lift the united states is number one. usually, there's an internal debate, but both given the impact, the scale, and the eminence of what we are facing in the nine states and 2024, i

don't see what else we could possibly do. >> i would like to dig deeper into that, because with the middle east broiling, and every day the potential for this escalating into a much wider, much more dangerous, much more close to home war, i guess my questions are, what kind of data and information caused eurasia group to make america against itself the number one threat? >> if you look, we've been doing this for 26 years now, and the way that we rank these likelihood eminence and impact. and so of course the fact that the united states is not just facing an election that is increasingly seen as a legitimate by large percentages of the population, but also the scale of impact of any real problems with u.s. democracy for the rest of the world. i, mean you travel around the world, and the level of concern or were you about what this will mean for american

commitment and american policies, american alliances, and of course opportunities for american adversaries vastly greater than everything else. and so you have to look at those different metrics when you're considering one of the most important risks out there. but when you look at the united states, we're only looking at when your head. we're not even looking at what's happening after the inauguration in 2025. i think one of the biggest issues is that when trump gets the nomination, which is certainly not certain, but it is very very likely, and you've been talking about this every morning, that his suddenly going to be a vastly more powerful figure on the american domestic stage. the republican party will line up with him overwhelmingly with loyalty. he will have the media focusing on him far more than they were today. he will have a lot more money to play with as well. >> up next, our discussion with director rob reiner about his new documentary god and country, which looks at the history of christian nationalism in

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huh. internet's out. ♪ you don't... ♪ wanna hear a fun fact? elbows are impossible to lick. i meant your own elbows. you don't settle for bad internet. that's why you have the xfinity 10g network, with ultra-low lag for better streaming. wish you would have been more specific about your elbow. the new documentary only from xfinity. entitled god & country, which looks at the history of christian nationalism in america, and how donald trump and members of the far-right media have twisted christiane

eddie to fit their own political and financial agendas. joining us now is one of the films producers, emmy award winning actor and renowned filmmaker rob reiner and two-time emmy award winner director dan hartland. this looks powerful and frightening. >> you know, rob, we were talking before we came on about -- i grew up in the southern baptist church, grew up evangelicals, and there are certainly reaction to what happened in the 60s and 70s, and then they were sort of this return to normalcy in the church, but another group broke off and i love the title, god & country, because what we always used to talk about is god and country. we are faithful to our god, and we are proud to be americans -- >> and the founding fathers -- >> but it didn't play together.

it wasn't god & country, and now christian nationalism is not about jesus. it's not about the new testament. it's about pushing a political agenda. >> right, and if you look at the founding fathers and our founding documents, there is a clear separation of church and state, but when you talk to these people, these christian nationalists who are on a derive to do anything, my way or the highway, they will resort to violence, they will tell you face to face that there is no separation of church and state in the constitution. they will tell you right there. you can say no, it's there. there are three times that is mentioned very specifically because the people who came to this country were fleeing religious persecution. they did not want to have a national religion for the country, and they separated, but they say no, there is no separation, it's not in the constitution. and it's right, they're three times. >> i was so horrified, as we all wear, on january the 6th, and as a guy who grew up in an

evangelical church, most of our people were people, rioters, people beating the heck out of cops who were holding it crosses and basically saying that she just wants me to be here. the most on christ-like behavior, and yet they are hiding behind the crossed cross. >> you can justify terrible things if you can help yourself to believe that this is god's will. i think that the hardest thing and making a film is just to talk about christian nationalism, just to explain what it is. people don't see, i don't think they really understand what it is. it sounds like it might be two very good things. it's about love of country and about being honorable to your faith, but yeah, when you dig into it and what the film tries to show, it's the ways in which it's not christian at all. it's not a fait. if we can get people to think that it is a fate than it is beyond criticism, and that is really hard to talk about. >> one thing that really angers christian nationalists, when i bring this up, is the fact that

when i was in high school i always said, for 2000 years, from the time of jesus's birth through, not the breakup of the beatles, but the breakup of the eagles! [laughter] like, evangelicals were pro-choice. they were pro-choice, and then you had weirich and terry falwell going, we have a southern baptist democrat, we have to separate southerners and catholics from the sky. and so they said, we will make up abortion as a religious issue, and they did. just like that. >> it's a political strategy. >> it was a political strategy. 1979, jimmy carter. >> so we got to the stage in america where i think it's more than half of republicans who think that america should be a strictly christian country, which again, seems to go against what was written in your constitution, the whole idea of america for those people who are being persecuted. talk about how that message is

the message of christiane ade is being merged in social media and on right-wing talk shows with nationalism, and has become almost confused. as of people who are listening to it perhaps don't even know if what they're hearing is a form of nationalism, or if what the hearing is actual spirituality. >> we all live in our silos and we could get our information. they are in a specific silo where that is told them over and over and over again that those are connected. something that you brought, up which is very important, that it was a political tool that they could use, but the beginnings of christian nationalism did not start with abortion. it started with race. when brown versus the board of education, 1954, christian nationalists jumped on the idea that, we can't have this. we will create religious schools where we can keep black people out of those schools,

but that is kind of ugly, to build a political movement around racism is ugly, and it didn't go anywhere, and it wasn't until, as you say, falwell and these guys said, oh, abortion, 1972 73, roe v. wade. when that came on, it was old, we can latch on to that, we can drive that and use that as a political agenda. >> well, that does it for this saturday addition of morning joe: weekend. to be back tomorrow at six a.m.. the premier of the weekend starts right now. right now ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning, it is saturday, january 13th. i'm alicia menendez with symone sanders-townsend and michael steele. here are the stories we are following today. speaker johnson says he's taking by the deal he made with senate democrats to keep the government open. that is teeing up a wild week on capitol hill.