but that is kind of ugly, to build a political movement around racism is ugly, and it didn't go anywhere, and it wasn't until, as you say, falwell and these guys said, oh, abortion, 1972 73, roe v. wade. when that came on, it was old, we can latch on to that, we can drive that and use that as a political agenda. >> well, that does it for this saturday addition of morning joe: weekend. to be back tomorrow at six a.m.. the premier of the weekend starts right now. right now ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning, it is saturday, january 13th. i'm alicia menendez with symone sanders-townsend and michael steele. here are the stories we are following today. speaker johnson says he's taking by the deal he made with senate democrats to keep the government open. that is teeing up a wild week on capitol hill. some of the most conservative

house republicans threaten to sabotage the bipartisan agreement. my talk with congressman james clyburn about that new standoff. plus, the iowa caucuses just two days away and while nothing about this gop primary is normal, you have a record snowstorm threatening to end the candidates plants in the final stretch. the republican front runner, finding himself juggling the campaign and the courtroom. -- a brazil judge in a civil fraud trial, donald trump is getting tested again next week. as a new defamation trial starts brought by e. jean carroll. this hour, attorney george conway is our guest. grab your coffee, settle in. welcome to the weekend. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we begin this hour with the fight to -- the government with one week to go into a potential shutdown. lady estimates, bigger mike johnson said he's sticking with the bipartisan deal he made within a majority leader chuck

schumer. >> our top line agreement remains we are getting our next steps together and we are working toward a robust, appropriations process. so, stay tuned for all of that to develop. >>ith a decision is not sitting well with hard right republicans. surprised, to price. we are demanding the speaker back out of the agreement, saying the top line number, 1.6 trillion dollars, is too much. you know, i feel like we've seen this bill before. >> we know very well. look, i think the thing about mike johnson that people should continue to remember is he's 80 days as of today into the speakership and the beginning, you know, folks said oh, he's new here, we are going to give him time. it's now been 80 days and i think he's learning that it's not very easy to govern this caucus. he's having some of the same issues as speaker mccarthy had and i don't see things changing much. we are likely to end up in a

similar situation, where is the same deal, that he bought against for so long and ends up coming back to the table, where senate democrats, senate republicans in the white house started in the first place. >> it's not so much about governing the caucus, it's governing the country. i mean, what did you think was going to happen here? how did you think this is going to play, up speaker johnson, when you took the gavel? how did you think this is going to play out republican caucus when you gave him the gavel? you have a democratic president, democratic minority, that has a business plan for the country. they've laid it out. these are our priorities. what are your's? it's not just enough to say, we want to cut. because that's just not how it works. it's not enough for the democrats to say, we want to spend. that's what the table is four and so, the speaker finds himself in the exact same position that mccarthy found himself in the exact same position republicans found themselves in during the trump administration. so, the reality here is, how are you going to govern through this? the politics of the caucus is

one thing and if members of the caucus just want to dangle, we are going to vacate the chair and johnson said, have at it. but you still have to govern the country. >> this is one of the most unproductive conferences, the, since history. >> that's every congress. >> that's not every. congress -- >> this congress has passed less bills then at least the last five congresses before it. that's insane, so they're not governing. >> i just want to point out that while a lot of this has the contours of new shutdowns that we've seen before, while this has sort of ghosts of kevin mccarthy passed, there are asterisk i would put on that. one is a fact that we're now closer to november, we are closer to election, so you have some republicans who are in competitive districts, who i'm sure you saw this in politico. don bacon, who's in nebraska, in a district that joe biden won saying, we've got to govern. by the way, i think 90 or 95% of us are fully in sync with this, of course, the problem is on the 90 or 95%. then you have nbc news

reporting that there are a number of moderate democrats who are saying, if this comes down to a motion to vacate the chair, we will make sure that johnson place. >> that's a political calculation for moderate democrats. i'm sure, because i know there are other democrats will sit there going, really? we've seen this movie before too. the reality of it is, what has to happen is, schumer, mcconnell, the president, have to stick to their guns and they have to shore up johnson. make sure that he has the strength to stay in front of that caucus and say, y'all can't go and play in the wilderness if you want. those who actually want to get this done, so that we have something. remember, you have republicans in that caucus saying, give us something that we can run on this november. and this is one of those things they can run on because they can say, yes, we didn't get all the spending cuts we wanted, but we did cut here, we cut here, we're working towards some of our priorities as well.

that's the sweet spot that johnson is trying to get to, which is why he came out, as you noted, -- said yesterday, hey, okay, we are going to stick to our guns here. now he's got to do that and i don't know if he's really in a position yet to do it. >> the last time we saw this movie, -- >> i like the movie analogy, it works. >> last time we saw this movie, a little drama, a little flare. democrats came to the table and they helped push a legislation over the hump. they, bipartisan legislation was passed. i mean, the only reason the continued resolution pass was because of democrats. i think we're going to be in a similar scenario where the republican leadership is going to have to come to the democratic leadership and asked them for their votes. >> they don't want to do that. they don't have to. >> we will see. they're going to have to. maybe they made a call this weekend. we will know. >> i would also add that this time, yet again, they're using

immigration as part of their rationale, because republicans believe that it's a political winner for them. the irony, of course, is that if they really wanted to solve immigration, the answer for that lies with them. >> but a bill on the table! i mean it's, not like you don't have a plethora of choices, going back to george bush's administration, in terms of policy initiatives around securing the border. okay, make it more than just a mantra or a one-off political slogan. i actually put something on the table and say, you give us this, or some of this, all right? then we are willing to move into the space you want us to move on on the budget. but absent that, what incentive do democrats have to even negotiate that peace? if you don't have anything to negotiate against, in terms of a policy? >> -- our conversation south carolina congressman james clyburn is the assistant democratic leader and co-chair for the biden campaign. congressman, thank you for waking up early for being with us on our maiden voyage here.

tell me, is a spending meal going to get done? >> i really hope so. first of all, let me congratulate you. we are going to make a terrific trio for me to hang out with on weekends. >> i like that. >> thank you so much. look, i really believe that the speaker will get this across the line because i think he's going to come to the table -- we have to govern and he will need democratic votes to do it. he will get there. it has happened before, -- how this have been the most recent times. when you can go all the way back to the -- automobile industry, the democrats had to provide -- we had to provide the votes. they love to talk. they have a real hard time walking. and so, we are going to, once again, do what's necessary for

the american people to continue to stabilize their lives with for their futures and lay a good foundation for the maintaining of this democracy. >> that's cynically near climbers, nbc news has reported that president biden and speaker johnson spoke on wednesday and in that conversation, speaker johnson urged the president to consider some of the executive actions that the speaker suggested to the president in a letter in december. the president did send an immigration bill to congress. 13 -- -- immigration bill that's beginning. he also said a funding request, a bill that had a little over $13 million for border security. what is really going on here and are we going to see some actual immigration reform? is this number, is this where we're going to land?

talk to us a little bit bp immigration pieces of this because there is a, i mean, there is a crisis at the southern border because of the lack of infrastructure that's there to process people. >> absolutely and we are all in to get this done. the president is willing to use his executive authority, but this is not president biden's issue. this is the country's issue. all of us ought to be participating in finding a resolution to it. -- ever since i've been in the conversation, before i came to congress, ronald reagan and his issues with this. i will never forget when we, once again, got double crossed by -- moving all the secretary of health and human services. he and i worked on this in the house. we thought we had a deal with the senate, but at the last minute, the republicans pulled the rug from under us. president biden is aware of

this history and he's willing to do what's necessary with executive authority to get this done. but in order to sustain this, for this to be a permanent fixture, congress has to pass and the president is ready to negotiate on that as well. he's made that very clear. there's nobody -- in the democratic party who is against solving this problem. we need to come to the table in order to do so. >> congressman, in addition to the president having to negotiate with speaker johnson, you also have the president running for reelection. in the midst of that, he has to deal with the other president, if you will, donald trump,. how shall we put it, who's put a lot of stuff out there about the biden economy. i would like you to listen to how president biden has

responded to some of these charges by president trump. >> when there is a crash, i hope it's going to be during this next 12 months because i don't want to be herbert hoover. the one president i just don't want to be herbert hoover. >> he's acknowledging that my economy is doing pretty darn well, he says he doesn't want to continue. by the way, the idea that he wants to see a crash in the next 12 months and doesn't want to be herbert hoover, let's understand, he's already herbert hoover. he's the only other president who lost jobs during his term. >> he's already herbert hoover. you know, i think it's going to take that level of engagement by the president on two fronts. one, negotiating at the table with speaker johnson, but then also during the class back on some of the noise coming from the presidential campaign. what are your thoughts on that? >> i have salute leave. i'm so pleased that the

president of the. he and i talked about the law -- very, very reticent about getting into this kind of a campaign. the president wants to continue to move forward. he would love to maintain an atmosphere where he can find compromise on these issues and he would rather not engage in this kind of -- but it's going to be required. that's what -- who i've known this guy for a long, long time. he's not going to be -- but those kinds of reactions or class backs, as you call them, we call it someone else now -- kind of step that he's going to have to do in order to engage our constituents. he's told me, in no uncertain terms, he's perfectly willing and capable of doing it.

>> if we can take a turn, assistant leader, i want to talk about the impeachment inquiry that the house has opened up against president biden. they've yet to show any facts or reasoning for this impeachment inquiry, but connected to that is hunter biden. we saw the president's son in congress this week, on capitol hill, surprisingly just showing up. i want to play, i think we have, it sound from, yes, this is a video of hunter biden showing up. i think we have sound from the first lady, dr. jill biden, with our colleague -- earlier this week, talking about oh, they're telling me we don't have the sound. well, congressman, look. the question is, hunter biden in a contempt vote is apparently going to be held next week. hunter biden's lawyers, though, are now saying that he's willing candlestick for a deposition if a new, proper subpoena is entered. how are house democrats strategizing around this? i will note, i saw some very fiery things from house

oversight democrats this week. they seem to have been prepared. >> well, our congressional -- colleagues on the oversight committee for bringing this issue to the forefront. look, president biden is more than a president, he's a father. -- made it very clear that she is very concerned about how they are treating their son. this is an issue that we ought to pay close attention to because if you are a party of family values, you ought to value family. they are not valuing family. they need to stop this foolishness. but we have two committees, -- pursue their work, with this grandstanding going into -- you can come out and interpret your pleas for the american

people. why not have the hearing in open? let the public looking. maybe we will all learn a little more about how we ought to conduct ourselves when we are faced with these kinds of challenges. that's what being a public service is all about, that's what the president of the united states is all about, showing the country how to how we should act and react in time of crises. there's nothing more personal than to have a family crisis like the head with the addiction of their son and how he worked to overcome an addiction. we ought not be piling on. -- broken the law, and we have a process for that. we should not have these open forays into people's private lives showing pictures in the invulnerable situations. that is not the way you demonstrate leadership in these

united states of america. i am so disappointed that the leadership of that committee is allowing this to happen. >> assistant leader, i want to dig a little bit further once -- i think it's a very good point, particularly relative to the politics. you have seen more, let's put it industry terms, aggressive stance by democrats. particularly, you look at someone like congresswoman crockett in congressional hearings. pushing back on a lot of the narratives that are emerging around impeachment, and the economy, and other aspects of, you know, what congress is doing. is that sort of organically happening in the house? or is that something where there is a level of conversation and coordination to say, you know what? we're now going to be able to frontline of the biden reelect effort. both in terms of how we're going to push public policy, as

well as how we will engage, politically. >> -- in a kind of -- we democrats, who were so diverse, we leave it up to members in order to conduct themselves the way they think if they should, because we represent such diverse congressional districts. and that means that our leader hakeem jeffries, who's doing a great job coordinating all of this, keeping it together, -- her caucus is, i think we've seen a kind of unity that nobody's ever seen before. second, because we maintain our focus and is a party, but we give each individual the freedom to be him or herself in the way they think they should be for their constituents. so, this is just a natural, organic way of responding to

the other side. so, we also down in a room somewhere and someplace and say, -- who we just simply say, let's keep the people mad -- politics, and let's pursue the agenda that will do good for the american people and let the politics fall where they may. >> congressman james clyburn between the spending showdown and the president heading back to south carolina in just two weeks, i suspect we'll be speaking with you again very soon. thank you, sir. up next, the list is growing of biden administration officials who are under the threat of impeachment from house republicans. it's almost as if there's no actual business to handle, like, you know, funding the government. like, you know, funding th government government my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc.

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potential government shutdown, republicans are showing us their actual priorities. just last night, house homeland security chairman, mark greene, announced the next impeachment hearings for homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas, and that it would be held on thursday morning. house majority leader steve scalise announced that a floor vote on holding hunter biden in contempt of congress will come next week. on friday, hunter biden's attorney said in a letter obtained by nbc news that hunter would comply with congressional subpoena, only if house republicans issued a, quote, new and proper one.

i want to play for you all that sound from dr. jill biden with our colleague, nika prusiensky, about hunter biden, for some. >> i think what they are doing to hunter is cruel and i'm really proud of how hunter has rebuilt his life after addiction and i think, you know, i love my son, and it's hurt my grandchildren. that's what i'm so concerned about, that it's affecting their lives as well. >> i think it was important that the first lady said that because oftentimes, i think hunter biden has become a political foil for republicans, right? >> -- >> yeah, people just want to throw it out there, but he is a father, he's a husband, he's a son. and he never worked in the white house. most importantly. he was not a government employee, unlike, you know,

jared kushner, ivanka trump, and impeachment inquiries are serious. only five presidents have ever faced an impeachment inquiry in the history of our republic. only five, joe biden is the fifth. the bar for an impeachment inquiry is a high crime, misdemeanor, or treason. and have yet to hear about or see, or identify, high crime, misdemeanor, or treason. >> important, but even more important is, those high crimes and misdemeanors occurred during their administration. >> while they were president. >> while they were president. not with their private citizens, right? not when their children are not in the government. and so, this speaks to the fallacy of what republicans are doing. the hypocrisy doesn't even apply toward to what republicans are doing. it's just the reality that this is all zero-sum politics. they don't give a darn about the humanity of the man. the party of family values doesn't have the compassion to understand the addiction that drove hunter to behave the way

he did. i'm telling you, they got their own children and relatives who have those same issues. now, how would you like that to be spate across the front page in the new york times or the washington post? or having some arbitrary member of congress start driving that storyline into the public life? so, what jill biden said here was important. to sort of re-focus our attention on the humanity of the individual involved. now, the politics is the politics. i, quite frankly, appreciated the fact that hunter biden pulled you know what out of -- i love how he rolled up because he was like, okay, you guys want to play? i'm here and i'm willing to testify publicly. i'm willing to put myself in front of our government and what the republicans do? well, oh, we can't do that. we need you here. well, i'm here, what do you want me to do? so, you really began this week,

not began, but for the first time, really to see a stark relief, i think, alicia, what this is all about. >> they're telling on themselves in two ways, right? they're telling on themselves because of members of their own caucus who were issued subpoenas by the olympics committee. they choose to ignore. they're also telling on themselves because to your point about how rare impeachment is, the high bar that is it for impeachment. instead, what they're engaging in a sort of impeachment-palooza, where they have manufactured all different types of ways to weaponize impeachment. including going after secretary mayorkas for things that you may be right, they have administrative differences. you may have questions of policy. that is not how the founders intended for impeachment to be used. it's interesting to me is you, of course, have progressive legal scholars who are coming out, making that argument. you also have a lot of conservative legal voices were saying, this is taking us down a dangerous path. let me read you this from the hill. the group of legal scholars included donald here, who

served as u.s. deputy aory under president george h. w. bush. stuart garrison, who served as acting united states attorney general during the clinton administration and 93. also served in the justice department under bush. you know, their legal voices were able to step back and say, there's damage that's being done to the institution. and what's talking about donald trump upended norms. republicans, under trumpism, they're now doing that in his state. >> yeah, the problem that we have here is, like joy put it, just sort of the impeachment -palooza, you sort of take away the full force effect of what that is there for, why it's in the constitution, right? it's not something that some arbitrary regulation that, you know, the government has kind of made up, you know? in 1792. so, the reality for a lot of republicans on the other side of this is when you get the power back, and the tables have

turned, and you have a republican, you know, cabinet secretary that there is a policy dispute. you're really going to be down for dragging them across the impeachment colds? >> it truly is unconscionable. impeachment is serious and i don't know, maybe i'm just crazy for wishing it they would take it seriously. you know, donald trump is also someone that people need to look at. he's been impeached twice, but he faces legal -- george conway is here and he's going to discuss the traps that donald trump fell into this week during his criminal and his civil proceedings. be sure to follow our show across social media posts. our handle, everywhere, is at the weekend. msnbc. we will be right back. will be right back. (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships with no children and no casinos. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages,

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the courtroom. on thursday, trump erupted at the judge in his new york civil fraud trial, granting that the entire case is, quote, a fraud on me. trump even told judge loeffler in -- i know you have your own agenda. keep in mind, this was not a campaign rally. this was a court of law. and since it's a bench trial, the judge will be deciding trump's fate. the rant prompted judge eric gone on to tell trump's lawyer, quote, control your client. joining us now, conservative attorney, george conway in the house this morning. welcome, man. >> control your client. good luck with that! >> good luck with that. so george, there are a lot of aspects of this case that are just unbelievable in the way that trump is approaching them, right? just out of the box, everything is a campaign for him. but the reality of it is, there are serious things that could

have a very, very important impact. not just on him, and the process, but the political consequences that sort of flow from that. and not to mention the fact that you find yourself all up in this mess to, right? address the idea of what this actually means in terms of what we see playing out in the courtroom right now. despite donald trump's -- >> been your case, yeah. >> the new york case is interesting because unlike the other, the four criminal cases, the four criminal cases, his freedom is on the line. here, his fortune is on the line and his businesses are on the line. what the judge has already found, based upon, frankly, undisputed evidence, is that he cut the books. he cooked his own books, then he presented the books to lenders, and ensures, so on, so forth. his argument is, well, they've got all our money back, they weren't actual defrauded. with the truth of the matter is, you cannot have fake books. even if you're a private

company, because people sometimes will have to rely on those books. and it's a privilege to do business either as a new york incorporated corporation or as a foreign corporation, out of state corporation, that has the right to do business in new york. that's a privilege and you can't abuse that privilege, the law says, by cooking your books. basically, his problem is, he has no defense to the fact that he cooked the books. and so, you know, that's why he has all this bluster. he can be put out of business, basically. the court has the power to basically revoke his ability, his corporate status, and -- >> d.a. is looking for that level of -- >> right and also, you know, because all the ill gotten gains from lying to people, lying to lenders and ensures, you know, he'd be forced to give that up. >> and the texas. >> and the texas, yeah. >> the outbursts that we all unfortunately, there is no audio, but the lovely sketch.

>> we can do an impression. >> a dramatic reenactment. you do a great trump. >> this is me, this is me, it's all about me. you are hurting me. >> this appears in the courtroom, george. it would never be tolerated by any other defendant, matter-of-fact, anyone that did it in another courtroom -- >> yeah, we would've, he would've sent a court officer to take us away and put us in the clinic for, you know, i don't know, for a day or two, or something to cool off. but he gets away with it because he's donald trump and he thinks he can get away with anything. he plays this whole persecution angle on television. and so, the judge is just giving him a little rope there to hang himself with because the judge is going to get the last word, so there's no point in him and, the judge, getting into a bitter barnacles fight about the crazy things that donald trump is saying in court. and also, i mean, i think, i mean, i saw some reporting to the effect that some of the things that trump said actually were, because he's not very smart, harmful to his case.

and the dea was actually pleased that he uttered them. >> you made this argument in the atlantic that there was an illegal trap set for donald trump and for his attorneys, and they walked blindly into it. make that case to us. >> this was in the argument that was just down the street. i guess it was tuesday morning for u.s. court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit. the argument there was that the project smith case, the election interference criminal case, should be dismissed because somehow, he was acting as president and therefore, was immune from prosecution because he was president. the problem with that logic is that it would mean the president could basically do anything illegal, including, as judge pan of that court kept asking donald trump's lawyer, you mean he could send seal team six into killed his political rivals and he wouldn't be subject to prosecution? the answer to that is yes,

that's their position. now, the trap that they set for themselves and the judge pan close was the fact that trump was arguing to different things in favor of not being prosecutable. one was that there is this inherent presidential immunity, which for the reasons that i just expressed, is wrong. and then resisting called the impeachment judgment cause. in the constitution that basically says that if you've been impeached and removed, if there's a federal officers didn't impeach him removed for office, convicted by the senate, you could still be tried in a court of law. so, in order to try and soften the concept of, the, he can never be prosecuted, the, said well, he could be prosecuted. he's definitely, he'd be impeached and removed. if he ever use seal team six to assassinate an opponent. of course, the problem with that is, well, what if the president resigned before he was impeached -- like nixon. or what if the evidence that he did that never came out until after he was gone? or, you know, what if the

capital is stocked with political cronies and they refused to convict him? okay, so that doesn't really make any sense and what judge panned it was she kept interrogating the lawyer on this tension in the positions. basically, you know, he realized that there was a trap that she was closing in on him, so he kept trying to weasel his way out by giving long winded, yes, by giving long-awaited answers and at the end of the day, she pointed out that there is this inherent tension in the argument and it collapses on itself. it was just masterful. >> paradoxical. there is something that she is doing, though, a pivot that he has made in the last few weeks, which was for the longest time, he was saying, this election is farcical, right? you go back to 2020. in the past few weeks, we've seen him at least six times sake, well, the election was over because he's now trying to make the argument that when he was searching for supposed fraud, he was doing so in his capacity as president. the problem is twofold.

the problem is one, you have a lot of audio of him saying, the complete opposite. >> -- >> no, here, let me make this argument to hear, attorney. you also have legal filings where he was making the opposite argument. i don't understand how they believe that they can simply make that type of rhetorical case -- >> this is donald trump, this is don. trump >>'s attorney certainly no better. >> they work for him, they work for him. he's the audience of one, donald trump, we know, is basically what's -- how do you say that? of lies and capacity -- basically, he will lie, then he will lie about lying, and he will lie about lying about lying, then he will lie about lying about lying about lying. that's what he does all the time. and that's what he's doing here. >> so george, we're just warming up. >> only warming up! -- >> i'm trying to catch up. >> that's just a little bit --

of george, stick around. we have a lot more, like i said, to talk about. up next, donald trump will be back in the courtroom next week facing a new defamation case brought by e. jean carroll. and there is a new filing to talk about. yes, there is. carolers one of the judge to make sure trump does not turn the trial into a circus. well, good luck with that. we will be right back. that. we will be right back. we will be right back. e chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur.

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development ahead of donald trump's civil trial for defamation against e. jean carroll. all lawyer for carole now wants the judge in the case to prevent trump from turning the trial into a circus. according to the washington post, quote, carols attorney on friday asked a fera judge to give trump strict warnings about what grounds he must avoid if he chooses to testify. at a trial next week, to determine what damages, if an are owed for defamation claims. the letter to judge kaplan, seeking for restriction cited trump's hijacking of summations on thursday in another lawsuit. the 370 million dollar civil case brought by the new york attorney general. trump is set to attend the first day of the trial on tuesday. now, you will remember a jury already found trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation against carroll last year. back with us is our man, too conservative attorney, george conway. he's the man, so george, i

think this moment right now for trump, again, is crystallizing in a way which yeah, the judges around all these cases going, you know what? we've got to start clamping down. how do you think that actually plays out? >> well, what the judge did here was he's basically saying, you can't fool around. i mean, the problem he has in this cases, for procedural regions, there were two separate cases. one was the case that was tried, his defamation, he engaged in against e. jean carroll after he was president. this is the one, this is the first case that would've brought that held up because he claimed that the federal law prevented the lawsuit and then he later claimed that he would have, he was immune from it because he, he was president. and the first trial, where he had the opportunity to testify, but did not, was where jean carroll presented her story and the story of the women who she told, just like within a day or

two after the rape and, you know, the jury found, and trump refused to show up to rebut that she was raped that day. and so, he is precluded, there is a doctrine called collateral -- law that if you lose an issue once to a party, you can't -- relitigated. so basically, e. jean carroll's lawyers are saying, they made a motion to exclude all sorts of things that he want, or that he might try to do to relitigate. it also, to make sure that trump does not pull the kind of crap that he pulled the other day in court across the street. >> the new republican has reported it speaks just to that. so, they write that caplan issued an order to say barring trump's lawyers from discussing carols twice of lawyer, who might be paying her legal fees. they can make comments concerning her past romantic relationships, sexual disposition, and he can't claim he didn't sexually abuse her. but there is something that they can claim.

apparently. look, alicia has it circled here in these notes. they can talk about you, george conway. you are entered into -- >> yes, this is not foreclose mr. trump from eliciting testimony that the idea of suing mr. trump crystallized in miss caroline as a result of a conversation at a party with george conway. >> that would be you. >> that's me. a republican lawyer, actually i was no longer republican -- no longer a part of the party, at that point. quote, does not like mr. trump. i don't like his criminality, i mean, it's not personal. and mr. conway then introduced her to a lawyer, which i did, the inestimable ema zing robbie kaplan, who won the case for her and will win it again. >> so, the argument she's trying to make in that footnote, beyond he doesn't like me, is that this is somehow politically motivated. >> it was a political job, yeah. >> which is not what's being litigated here. >> no. >> the question is, he lost, we are now talking just about damages and it's so striking to

me that all these efforts to hold donald trump accountable, the individual whose name was successful is a -- who's coming at this at her great personal cost, great personal pain, and she and her attorney, robbie kaplan, have been successful -- something in exchange or colleague lisa rubin side for us that happen on friday in the civil fraud trial, which is, you have the judge asked liz last-minute question which was, how would you compare what donald trump did to what bernie madoff did? the prosecutor said, remember things, there were less people who are impacted, but we're talking about a highly regulated industry. in oath of the civil cases, i think what you're hearing the judges work there is a little bit of norm setting. of saying, whatever we do in this case applies to other real estate folks. whatever you do in this e. jean carroll case applies to other survivors. and so, from that vantage point, forget about just accountability for donald trump, himself. you're talking about setting a justice standard for anyone who is -- >> yeah, i mean, that's the tension, that's the reason why

you see this tension. it's gone back decades, really. it certainly went back to his presidency between donald trump and the law, and the rules. donald trump does not think rules and laws apply to him. our court system, thanks begs to differ. when that's where we're seeing this titanic, multiple venue clash between donald trump and the rule of law. it really, you know, i mean, i like to make fun of trump for his silliness. i mean, this is all about, you know, he had his lawyers talking about me at the first trial because he's just, it was his obsession. his lawyers and up reflecting his obsessions. he thinks everything is about him, about how he's persecuted. the fact of the matter is, i mean, that's funny, but it's a very serious thing about why you should never become president again. he wants to destroy the legal system, he wants to destroy the rule of law because he doesn't like it and he hasn't wanted to apply to him. he only wants it to apply to people he can seek vengeance

against, and he even talks about that. >> he does. george conway, you're better than a cup of coffee on a saturday morning, appreciated. >> [inaudible] >> thank you so much for dropping by, we really appreciate. it we will be right back, folks. and at the top of the next hour, maryland governor wes moore will join us here on saturday. e on saturday. e on saturday. ♪ ♪ mom! mom! every day can be extraordinary with rich, why do dermatologists delici choose dove?l yogurt. the dove beauty bar, is gentle. it not only cleans, it hydrates my skin. as a dermatologist, i want what's best for our skin. with 1/4 moisturizing cream, dove is the #1 bar dermatologists use at home. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy.

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news out of the middle east. the u.s. military conducted another strike against houthi rebels in yemen overnight. that's according to two u.s. defense officials. this comes one day after the united states and the united kingdom carried out strikes against iranian-backed groups facilities. reporters asked president biden about the strikes friday during a campaign stop in pennsylvania, take a listen. >> i've already delivered the messages to iran. i know -- >> this strike comes in response to attacks on commercial ships off the coast of yemen. houthi militants sent up those attacks in october after israel began its military campaign in gaza. at the top of the hour, folks, the growing threats of violence changing the political landscape in america. maryland governor wes moore joins us to discuss, as we embark on a landmark election

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that's a 2024 campaign season ramps up, so have the breadth of political violence. just hours before donald trump