it's not just possible, it's happening. 90 am in new york, it even iowa right now it's ease of the iowa caucus. the start of the presidential

primaries, you may have heard. i'm ari melber, and right now for an msnbc special candidate slash defendant trump recorded on this unprecedented class of american politics. law, and how voters may is as a candidate who might and in the exulted oval office or a small prison cell. it will depend on the -- and other cases. we have special guests to help break it all down for you tonight on caucus eve of the primaries begin tomorrow. some of trump's rivals are now invoking trump's legal problems as a general election problem for the ex president. >> obviously, the distractions of everything that's going on with all of these legal issues has been a huge thing for him. you're going to have criminal trials, you're going to have a lot of focus on things like january 6th by the media. and i think that ends up focusing the election on things that are going to be advantageous for democrats. the notion that somehow all of

the stuff that is swirling around and it's good to be a positive in a general election, that's just not true. >> desantis they, are going further in his home stretch than he has previously. and the deadlines and trials do pose challenges for trump this year. his own team admitting it's been a scheduling light near already. trump recently did but moaned being stuck in courtrooms, while out on the campaign trail. >> i would rather be right now in iowa. i would rather be in new hampshire, south carolina, ohio, where a lot of votes. -- but i'm stuck here. >> -- reflects a reality that he is also often denied, that his own actions and lies have caught up to him, and made him go places and do things and stand accountable, in ways that he didn't want to, but he was as he said forced to, stop there. all of this, after years of trump's mistakes, malfeasance, and sometimes legal adjacent drama. >> today, the indictment was unsealed, charging donald j

trump, for conspiring to defraud the united states. >> trump is back in court for the multi million dollar civil fraud trial. >> the civil lawsuit, brought by e. jean carroll. >> grand juries in manhattan, voting to indict a former president, for the first time in history. >> criminally indicted, in the state of georgia. >> charging donald j trump, felony violations, national security laws. >> violation of georgia's -- act. >> we have one set of laws in this country, -- >> after all of that, some observers even wonder how trump is seen as a viable nominee for a major political party, yet alone the idea that he could possibly beat biden, as some polls show is possible. and whatever hope donald trump has in running and biden, if trump becomes the nominee, it seems to require, as a matter of everything we can understand about the electorate, that this potential trump nominee, if he is, what have to duck or beat

the trial slated for this year. polls show voters would recoil at a convention, excuse me, conviction. political word in my mind. but if there were an actual trump conviction, the polls show that voters would recoil, and that ten-point lead you see there, well with a margin for error, and leave a lot of other things in there, that is still a giant landslide for president biden reelection, again if you ask people in the various states, what about a convicted -- or going to get into all of it right now, with a very special guest for a sunday night special, live with us, andrew weissmann, the former prosecutor of the mueller probe. former fbi general counsel -- and leslie kabul, former head of the doj's criminal division, having overseen exactly those kinds of trials. welcome to both of you. -- i'll start with you, here we are, a year ago, trump wasn't convicted and awaiting trials. it does clash with the

calendar. what do you see, both in the indications that the public doesn't like convicted people becoming president. i know you are not a political analyst, but over lapsed with your world. and, the trials that trump may have to balance this year. >> well, what we are going to see is whether the american public actually cares about the results that have happened so far, and whatever the results are that come up. but just remember, we have the trump organization, they have been criminally convicted. that means that a jury unanimously, and beyond a reasonable doubt, found that it was a long term tax fraud scheme. who is head of the trump organization? donald trump. but if you want to know what he did, you have a judge who has found that he committed fraud, we are about to find out the monetary component of that. in a few weeks. and we have a jury that found that he sexually assaulted e. jean carroll, we are going to have trial to on that. and then obviously, we have four separate grand jury investigations, indictments that have come up. and as you note, that means that four separate grand jury found that there was probable

cause. so it is not like there is no evidence that has already been determined. now obviously, there will be a criminal trial, and he will map his defenses. but to date, it's not like we have heard really the defenses from him. we have just heard label was about a witch hunt, they gerrymandered this, he's a victim. but it will be interesting to see whether the electorate actually cares. so we will have this divergence between the legal world, and the political world. and to see whether they overlap, whether people actually uphold the rule of law, or we are going to have the schism. >> and leslie, when you look at the federal piece of these trials. as i mentioned, you have overseen, whether the jack smith co-trials start in march or, slightly later, if the supreme court doesn't drastically interrupt or delay, how does that work against a campaign schedule. the judge basically says it doesn't matter, even if a party

has picked him to be the nominee, it just goes forward in the normal course? >> well i think that the judge would try to be somewhat accommodating. but this judge, judge chutkan, would be the first federal -- law when you're talking about. she has already indicated that she is going to treat this like a regular criminal case, to the extent possible. obviously, that is not going to be completely possible, but i think there will be some accommodation with the idea that there is also very strong -- for the trial to move expeditiously in a normal kind of way. >> yeah, and many people have weighed in on the rather outlandish claims made by the trump lawyer in the appeal of that. could you again remind people, the appeal is about whether or not we have a co-trial. jack smith unwanted one at the district level. but in the service of defending that, you had all this talk about maybe the president can order hits, and murders of americans, as long as there is no impeachment process. that is their outlandish legal theory. we have a little bit of that, from the d. c. hearing on immunity, take a listen. >> could a psident who ordered seal team six to assassinate a political rival, who was not impeached, would he

be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first, hands down. >> so your answer is? >> -- >> leslie, i am curious about what you think about the fact finding, or truth seeking mission of the law. because we are told that that is one good thing that is supposed to come, for guileless of what else happens. in other words, we hear about it in the case of victims, that the trial is designed to have a truth seeking function, that is separate from what the jury ultimately decides. that is why people talk about getting their day in court. i'm curious what you think about what the public has been learning in the last week or so, about the truth of trump's apparent position, about what he thinks a president should be able to do? >> well look, i think his lawyer made it very clear in the d. c. circuit argument, that his position is that in the absence of trump first being held accountable through a political process, namely impeachment, he can't be legally accountable for any criminal conduct, including

something as extreme as murder. i think that is an extraordinarily extreme position, the d. c. circuit seems very very skeptical of it. nothing like that has ever been argued, to my knowledge, with a straight face at least in a courtroom in this country. and i can't imagine that that is actually going to carry the day. >> yeah, i hear you on that. -- you were mentioning earlier how the public feels about, this and there are various measurements, and from hasn't convicted yet. there is a new poll today, anyone who has had their eyes on the news on msnbc's seen that the final des moines register poll has. hold on one second, we will bring this back. the final des moines register poll has a lot of good news for trump. he is still in the league, his rivals haley is doing a little bit weather, but it is a long ways off. we have right now and i showed it for a second, we're going to walk it through a new piece of polling from the same poll, but it is now being released for

the same time. -- it has some bad news for trump, because we are talking about the most ardent republican caucus goers. okay, this is the nub of the nub of the party. and the question is if trump were convicted, that is in the future for the general election, what would that do to your support? and, what you have there is about one out of five, the red 18% in the middle, saying it's less likely they would vote for him, even as a die hard republican, if he were convicted of a crime. the number is even higher for independents and in the general election. and so that is new tonight, we have that up there. it goes to the point you were raising earlier, which is politics and i know, again you are more legal, but i've done a little bit of both in my life. politics is about reality, and perception. i don't know about you, i would rather live in a country where an even larger share of people said if you were convicted by a jury of your peers, and you are a felon, you shouldn't be president. but that is preference. on the reality, what are you seeing here, in that it is a problem apparently even for die

hard republicans. >> i am constantly reminded of something that amy berman jackson said. she is a district judge, she oversaw the roger stone case, the paul manafort case, and her mantra was that the courts are a place or facts and law still matter. your point just now, that may not carry the day in the political world, i think one thing that is useful about the courts, and something that is useful about the media, is pointing out facts, and not getting inured to things that are false. for instance, your allusion to donald trump saying, i am stuck here, i am forced to be here. well, that's not true, and that is absolutely not true. you could start with, these are things that are happening because of conduct that he engaged in. so let's just start with that. but even if you put that aside, he is not required to have been in new york. so, i think the more that the courts and the media -- don't get inured to the sort of

constant four raj of falsehoods, on either side, and hold people to the facts, and sort of dig in the way that you would add a trial. and -- she was this amazing process examiner, because she wouldn't let people get away with saying things that were not 100% accurate. >> yeah, for viewers of this program, this channel -- i have never seen leslie let anyone get away with anything, it's all facts, no chaser, which is why we rely on you. leslie, i wonder what you want to weigh in or say here. because one analogy is, one what great journalists do. when the watergate reporting began, it wasn't clear where it would end. but the fairest, most honest journalist in that era, if you asked them, is this designed to get someone convicted or get

someone compete impeached? they would say, i'm not even going there, right. we are doing the facts, and so likewise if these trials go forward, if they are blessed by the appeals courts, they are not designed to have an outcome on any separate or later election, obviously, and they shouldn't, and there's no evidence that any of these prosecutors or jack smith -- . but as i mentioned, and i know we cover the real world. leslie, i'm curious what you think about the real world reaction to a possible conviction. >> so i think it is one thing for trump to say that he is the victim of a politically motivated biased piling on prosecution. i think it is another thing for people to hear a parade of witnesses come into the courtroom, one after another, many of whom will be people who have worked for trump, and were presumably loyal to trump, saying whatever it is that they are going to be saying. you only have a small preview of that from some of the court filings. i think that will certainly have an effect on anyone who is paying attention. i think to andrew's point, there may be plenty of people who aren't paying attention, and are normally paying attention to trump's portrayal of himself as a victim. but i think that is one thing

that the trials, -- because people are hearing the facts, and -- trump allies. >> yeah that makes sense. leslie caldwell, thank you so much. andrew, thank you, and stick around, because he is part of another program in our special. i have a report coming up on exactly these trump trials, and how trump could become the candidate who is tripped up by his other side, his dr. jekyll and mr. hyde of trump the defendant, also historian jon meacham is here, and he is our special guest, next.

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we are here with a special for you right now. is the official beginning of the 2024 election. it is one with very little precedent in history. and nixon faced investigations, he was pardoned before any prosecution. the clintons spent years in litigation, and was impeached. he was never charged with any crimes, he struck a doj deal to ensure that leaving office. trump is the first president ever indicted. he was indicted four times in

one year. he is their first ex president to run for president under the cloud of said indictments, and these looming trials. other fringe candidates have showed that you can technically run even if you are convicted -- such as eugene debs. he ran from president for prison back in 19, 20 and was imprisoned for imposing the draft in world war i. it got over 900,000 votes. supporters up lead into the idea that he was a political prisoner. conspiracy leader -- ran one of his eight long shot candidates from presidency -- if trump is convicted before november, that would be another first. it is a question that history has not actually faced. are there sufficient number of americans that would vote for convicted felons over an incumbent president? joining me now is the perfect guest, a president joyce jordan, jon meacham. good evening, thank you for joining us on the sunday night special. >> thank, you already. >> history charges us so much. it is sometimes limited when there are a few precedents to look at. how do you see this from a

historical perspective? >> i think that this is a human and moral question as much as a legal and political one. in all four of those things, of, course they are entwined. the question is, is our democracy mature enough to allow for this to process this? and to come out on the other end in a full, free, fair election? making a choice that will support and preserve the constitution, which for all of his imperfections, has in fact created a more perfect union. it is still a country, still a constitution that people have very, very strongly held opposing views believe in. it is really up to us, up to the voters.

it's one of the main reasons the tomorrow is so interesting. finally voters in the presidential race for the first time since the insurrection will vote for a presidential candidate. i think that the central question for american democracy at this hour's, are you willing to vote for somebody with who you may differ on policy, but in his fealty to the constitution you do not doubt? or do you vote for somebody that has demonstrated again and again it he will put himself above everything else? it is pretty straightforward. >> when you put it like that. when you state demonstrated, we, as you know, you're an acclaimed author and have used your words capably, he has demonstrated -- meaning that the evidence and materials we are drawing on is not from criticism or opinion. it is the actual acts and deeds. i feel like i am oversimplifying, but i mean that.

there are people who, today, dry information. it's always been part of the press, as long as there has been a press, there's always been conspiracies of fearmongering. people today have sometimes drawn from information sources where they really do get confused indeed. there are people that have stormed the capitol that have later said they are really confused. part of their issue is the propaganda. i want to play for your reaction something that we put together that shows the contrast between what trump is pitching people, which again, you don't have to watch, but for those that do, if you watched the fox town hall, it is a kinder, gentle, or lying minimization of the actual demonstrate of actions that you referenced. take a look at this. i'm not going to have time for retribution. i can stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody, and i would not lose any voters. >> i remember this. our ultimate retribution's success. >> i would like to punch him in the face i would tell you. >> i am not going to be a dictator. >> we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly.

if it requires pardons, then we will give them pardons. >> can you say tonight that political violence is never acceptable? >> of course that's right. >> knock the crap out of them would, you seriously. >> john, how much of the questions that you posed this coming year will also turn on what people believed to be true? >> you know, he went on in that answer and immediately shifted the point to the unfolding, the wars in the middle east, and in the ukraine as if that is what political violence is. it is warfare -- what i think the host was asking there is about domestic political violence in pursuit of a particular agenda instead of the constitutionally sanctioned arena in which we debate our differences peace ability but passionately. we reach a cuban solution for a given period of time. if you disagree, then you

organize, you campaigned, you use the franchise and in order to create a different result in what political violence is about. it is undermining that, it is replacing the rule of law with the rule of the merely strong. that is as fundamental to american life is anything. right? if you want to massively do work out, this is broadly put, tomas hobbs versus john locke. hobbs right against the state of nature. law road event -- how we enter contracts, protecting essential rights. the fact that you and i are sitting here and talking about hobbs and lock on a sunday night in 2024 is not a great sign for the health of the body politic. the only thing that i would say about the questionable news sources and all of that, i don't think there's a lot of people are confused. i just personally think they are wrong. they probably think that i am both. it is totally fair. i don't think that --

don't think there's a lot of people are confused. i just personally think they are wrong. they probably think that i am both. it is totally fair. i don't think that -- and again, i know you've had conversations. i live in tennessee, and so when i say i have conservative friends, it is redundant. they just have a different view. they have a different view of the things that -- and i don't think it comes from a place of malice. i really don't. i do think it comes from a place of reflexive partisanship. one of the things that i hope we can discuss and maybe come

to in the next nine or ten months or so, is replacing reflexive partisanship like my team, right or wrong with reflective partisanship. partisanship is fine, we've been partisan -- you know, jefferson said we have been dividing themselves into parties since rome. that is okay. in fact, the constitution would not work without them as it turns out. only voting because of a partisan label is in fact, i believe, undermining of the spirit of the constitution. the spirit of declaration of independence. i am lucky. i do not have particular passions about particular policy issues. i believe that -- i do believe that this experiment needs to go on. i just worry -- and i hope i am wrong, but i don't think i am, given the evidence of the last ten years now, that a reelected trump would not only damage that experiment, but he darn well might end it. i don't say that casually, i

don't say that as it reflexes an msnbc thing, but if you add up the facts. if you look at what we know, it is not an unreasonable worry. why take the risk? >> yes. i think you laid it out. i hope that people are listening, we'll be posting the segments of the people can take it in online. i hope that people hear what you said. author and historian jon meacham, thank you, sir. we will fit in a, break when we come back. a special report that we are working, on trump's trials, they are right ahead. with nurtec odt i can treat and prevent my migraine attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. talk to your doctor about nurtec today. aah, it's a good day to cough. oh, no!

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with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. now a special report. defendant slash candidate trump, both things right now. this man, who has spent years running the long arm of the law, representing a record number of civil cases before he got to this white house. now fraud over his and defamation.

and then the four separate criminal cases and potential trials that trump is battling. all of this as republican candidates made their closing arguments in their home stretch of iowa, during that period the trump spent much of the final week as a defendant in courtrooms. last, year many were wondering as the indictment started coming, and how this even work? now we can see. trump's cases are colliding with his primary campaign, and republican voters will decide if they want to bet on potentially rocky odds as they pick their nominee. they know the trump's scheduled trials stretch long into this general election. in our report right now, here, it's that outlook. for scheduled trials, some near kia election moments as you can

see. the doj january 6th coop trials scheduled for march, and so that trial could change. the new york case right after, the classified documents trial, also brought by special counsel jack smith slated for may. and then the trial that could come latest, or even after the election, the bottom right you see, in the georgia r. i. c. o. case proposed for august. some of these cases stand alone. trump was caught the stolen evidence, the doj case is the only one that addresses that. the other three trump trials slated for the coming year, and of course the december cases against trump aides, they are all led by defendants slash candidate trump's plots to allegedly distort, change, steel, or defraud elections. the new york cases that trump broke finance laws back in 2016. the 2020 plots stretch for months. we have documented that in this chart based on our extensive reporting when we first showed you that there were indictments of trump or his aides for those activities, plots, including

elective fraud, demand a state officials, where the vice presidents to delay the election. all, of course, leading to the sabotage and violence of january 6th. now, since we have first reported all of this, we have seen many of these plots indicted. that was not inevitable, in fact, there were quite extensive been controversial delays of some of the prosecution offices. what you see on your screen, which is the evidence, the underlying material, the plots that inform these looming trials, they show how much of this has been indicted. georgia's 19 original indictments have already yielded three convictions or pleas. i can tell you tonight in the special report something that i could not tell you two years ago, it's a legal fact that the electors and voter data range plots are now connected to crimes. that's true whether it's trump, or if he gets on trial, or convicted. or take the most physical leader in that post election

period, rudy giuliani, who is bracing for a criminal trial. he's already bankrupted. he is in extreme dt on paper after the 100 million dollar defamation, all it penalty for his trump lies. the maga fans who stood up to the election fraud, they are withstanding charges. they are already pleading guilty, schumm showing apparent emotion. > if i knew then what i knew now, i would declined to represent donald trump in these postelection challenges. i look on this whole experience with deeper remorse. >> remorse, it's not over. the calendar shows to trump trials, that is of course jack smith's coup case, as you see in the middle, and the foundation for what we saw all of this talk about assassination and seal team murder. that is the long shot, extreme arguments that trump's lawyers are making in the appeal of that large trial. of course, the georgia case, which relates to essentially

coup efforts in that single state. georgia has jurisdiction over what happens, they're not what happened in the other 49 states or d. c.. the main charge shows the plots involving trump's team, with the trials to come. it is already, of course, game over and a lights out for the most violent insurrectionists, convicted of sedition and dealt hefty sentences. as i would years out for its big decision, the one republican arguing the trump's legal problems would be disqualifying is now out of the race. >> all you have to do is look at the history. >> anybody who's unwilling to say that he is unfit to be president of the united states is unfit themselves >>. these three guys on the stage made it seem like his conduct as acceptable. you will be heading to the polls to vote, and that is something that donald trump will not be able to do, because

you will be convicted of felonies before then. >> that is chris christie's prediction. the calendar shows that a conviction or acquittal could happen by election day. that's why it will be important to turn all of this together. as of right now, it's also possible that that coup trial on appeal for march could be delayed even passed the election. the counter matters. the u.s. has never held a presidential election stacked against this kind of court calendar. if trump were convicted, they could factor into that legal fact, they could consider it. outside of the primary electorate, they show electors would turn on trump over the conviction. that is logical. we have a lot of history for that in both parties. when you see on your screen if convicted politicians from both parties. voters have recoiled from politicians convicted of serious crimes. the republican speaker has, church them aquatic governor midway of that. trump -- where the davin in the following calendar, year some callan -- guilty campaigns for the white house from prison. eugene debs, convicted of controversial charges of composing world war i. he leaned into it. he ran from prison, and he used his own monk shot for political

merge back in the day. a tactic that echoes right now. something has changed, something has not. the times college dangerous political merge back in the day. a tactic that echoes right now. something has changed, something has not. the times college dangerous marketing of the trump mugshot. the former president also brazenly fundraised off his legal problems, something he was doing fore he ever staged a coup. you might recall how much money he took from people in the period after he lost the election when there was no legal chance to overthrow it. he was still taking millions

from maga fans. the wider politics of presidential prosecution or complex. they are broader than these current candidates and current former president. in fact, what is interesting that is both about trump and not about trump is that people running for the nomination right now are telling the republican party,, pick me, not him, they've still talked of pardoning him if he was projected -- convicted before president. >> if former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? [applause] >> can you explain why you would vote for a convicted felon for president? >> the constitution doesn't permit somebody to, run and that is the person that -- that's the way our system works, i stand by it. >> i would pardon trump if he is found guilty. >> i think we have to move on as a country, the ford, the nixon. >> desantis saying, ford, nixon, that's a type of precedent. as america begins the 2024 race on monday, politics suggest

that when ford did that, republicans found that it was a political loser. >> by the presidents to craft a free, full, and absolute pardon under richard nixon, for all offenses against the united states. >> the president apparently decided to grant the pardon now, as it might be difficult or impossible later. >> reaction in congress was so negative and strong that not only has the nixon party ended president ford's honeymoon with the congress in general, it could caused him problems in the own republican party. >> and it did. >> the problems got worse. keep in mind, as we analyze this on the basics of history, incumbent presidents usually when. they are usually reelected, current president, in the white house, they have a lot of advantages that a range of citizen running against him does not. then president ford did not win reelection. he was the first incumbent president to lose since 1932. that was back during the great

depression. many south ford's pardon as simply continuing the republican party's terrible nixon crime problem, rather than taking the chance to break from it. as a matter of justice, the pardon interfered with the process to hold nixon accountable. as a matter of politics, the partner dragged down the party after the -- as you can see on your screen, in 1974. in fact, if you are counting, the 50th anniversary of that one pardon for former president is actually landing this year's mack daddy in the middle of general election and the years slated for more ex president trials than nixon ever faced. as much has changed, and trump poses the ridge village's, some of the core questions you are actually the same as those 50 year old questions. i would suggest, you after

sifting through all of this, the special court process with our team, the questions are actually the same because they are so fundamental. can our system and society act to ensure that literally nobody is above the law? can our politicians, who got where they are from political leans put some certain select priorities above politics? if anything is going to be such a priority, the risk your career over, you just do the right thing, wouldn't it be combatting, the seditionists, the traders, the political violence in our midst, -- the answers go beyond tracking trial on the calendar, or counting votes. the answers require principle, and fortitude from our leaders,

and honestly, and i mean it, from us. >> andrew weizmann is here on all of this when we come back. as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪ ♪ mom! mom! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt.

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♪oh what a good time we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints. we are back with veteran prosecutor andrew weissmann. as you look at the calendar and your head, what do you think is most important? >> the big issues that we don't

know what cases going to go first. there are almost scenarios where there will not be one criminal case, because even if the supreme court takes d. c. appeal, and they hear, that delays the big january 6th coup case, you will have the manhattan criminal case going forward. in playing that scenario of nixon and ford, and going through all of the issues about the pardon. we are obviously not about the pardon stage, but what i am reminded by is that in the criminal cases that are going forward, risk what's remarkable is that unlike nixon, you've got charges here where the former president is charged with crimes before, during, and after his presidency. it's a long span of criminal conduct.

if you're just looking at pardons, it's worth remembering, and this is dear to my heart as a foreign prosecutor, looking at the use of pardons by the former president where you have rogers, paul manafort, mike toyahvale, who you referenced, it's hard to imagine how in god's green earth you would think that he's an appropriate person to pardon. i think that that was a lot of donald trump, kind of just softening the ground for political corruption, corruption, not so bad. you can be pardoned for. remember, that was the most gross political corruption. >> and a former apprentice contestant to wrap it all up. as i wrap up this calendar, is there a scenario where these all happen, trump in and out of courtroom for months on end? >> i don't think they'll have all of them. all signs are that the documents case might not go. that is going to be resolved in

terms of the trial date, the judge said that he's going to be looking at that. that is going to be looked past may. the georgia case, august, it's pretty darn close to the election. i do think that the january 6th d. c. case, the manhattan case would be a -- i would say that those two cases are going to be tried, and there will be some outcome for the electorate to take into consideration one way or the other. whether convicted or acquitted. >> last 20 seconds, looking at the march, case ever knows about that appeal. if the supreme court case does not interfere. housing with that come? if it goes past march, when could it come? >> it could come very fast. maybe it could get put off by a week or two, but judge chutkan -- she had already heard from the party since she was like, this is the day. obviously, she can't control the appellate process. if the supreme court doesn't hear it, that case court -- case is going to be green. let that will be the first case

to go. >> as we've emphasized, viewers and this is the night to do it, that's the case where if you remember the january six committee hearings, what else is there to know? it turned out to be a lot. we wouldn't move anyone. turned out, it did. here, ending with the report, you could end with a conviction and criminal prison sentence for the defendant. in many ways, it's huge, although the caution is on appeal. we don't know until we hear the rest of the courts. andrew, thank you. >> thank you. >> we appreciate you being here on the special. when we come back, why are we talking about licenses? stay with us. ps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

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lot of the past law and potential politics today. there's a big long shot for trump in launching an attempt, to delay or even stop this trial, as i was discussing with andrew weissmann. discussing that trump has taken the complete opposite public position as what he argued in the 2021 impeachment. in 2020, when trump and eastman were saying that he was only intervening as a personal

capacity as a candidate, now he's arguing the opposite, that he's actually doing his job as president. in other, words when he wanted to get out before, nothing official about it. now these are official acts. this matters, because in the new filing, he argues this was his only operating as chief executive of the u.s.. this past tuesday, this type of argument and obvious self interested hypocrisy comes up in more than one way. the judges were perceptive. >> i think that it paradoxical to say that his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed allows him vlate criminal laws. >> snap, that is a diplomatic way, but a nice judge saying in so many words, you are full of it. that's what she was saying to trump's lawyers respectfully. we are also learning that trump

is trying to reverse what he says happened at all. several weeks after he lost, the election is a long way from over. here it is now. >> the election was long over, i was not campaigning. i was just doing my job. i am entitled to immunity. >> rachel likes to say, watch what they, do not what they say. when it comes to why trump might lose some of these appeals, is because of what he said, as well as adjudicating what he is done. thank you for being with us, we have enjoyed ourselves trying to go through all of this serious stuff together. you can always catch me and six pm weeknights on msnbc. tomorrow, jen psaki and i will be posting this special iowa coverage. and tomrow, taking over with kornacki and our team for the iowa coverage. see you then.

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