danger? >> not if we vote. that's what democracy is. not what people want to tell you it is. as long as the people can still get out and vote and that vote counts, we have democracy. what makes our country great and has always made our country, throughout all of history, is the fact that everybody can come together from all different place, all different backgrounds, no matter if you come over from -- i have ma'am that came over in the "mayflower," i have family who came over as immigrants. it's that melting pot. >> as long as we go out and vote. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, it's 4:00 in new york. i'm ali velshi in for nicolle wallace. if you want proof the 2024 election is like no other before

it, with a republican primary dominated by an ex-president who has centered his candidacy around his legal woes, look no further. this morning donald trump, fresh off a decisive win in the iowa caucuses, was at a federal courthouse in manhattan as the defendant in a second defamation trial brought by the writer e. jean carroll. this time there's no question of whether trump defamed her. judge kaplan has ruled trump is liable for remarks he made in 2019 mocking carroll's claim that he sexually assaulted her in a chance encounter at a department store dressing room in the 1990s. and trump is not allowed to dispute carroll's account. the question now is how much a jury should award e. jean carroll in damage for those comments. opening statements are currently under way. we'll have a live report from the courthouse when the trial wraps from the day. so far, donald trump was in the courtroom. alongside his lawyer, alina

habba, as well as e. jean carroll and her attorneys. the first order of business was jury selection and the complications of a trial with what is perhaps the most famous defendant in the world, was immediately clear. nbc news reports judge captain asked the potential jurors if anyone believed the 2020 presidential election was stolen. two people in the pool said yes. trump turned around to look at them. the judge then asked whether anyone in the jury pool follows ump on social media. two saidyes. the judge asked the jury pool if trump is being treated unfairly by the nation's court system, and two potential jurors seemed to indicate they do agree with that statement. ultimately, nine jurors were selected. attorney sean c is delivering opening statent for carroll. nbc news reports this. "crowley said that in sexually y

in an empty department store, proven by a sarate trial 25 years after the incident happened. carroll's attorney recounted that trump said he had no idea who she was, accus her of lying to make money, and threatened her. trump was president at the time, had the world's biggest megaphone to attack carol, he said every statement from trump was an outright lie which has been decided and proven by nine jurors. that's where we start today. former top prosecutor andrew weissman. first amendment scholar and visiting research fellow from columbia university anderson jones. legal analyst katie phang. katie, these are complexities in jury selection that i hadn't really thought of with respect to an unrelated trial. the e. jean carroll trial. why did judge kaplan ask those jurors those questions? what, if anything, does anybody do about the answers?

>> jury selection is an art form in and of itself, ali, and it's clearly a way to seat fair and impartial jurors of the defendant's peers in order to be able to reach a decision on behalf of the plaintiff. and the reason why those questions are asked, ali, you singularly have a unique, unprecedented -- although that adjective is now getting worn out because he's got so many darn cases. you have a situation where you have a unique defendant. it is donald trump, former president of the united states. and that is why it's important to basically screen out those jurors that have predetermined the outcome of his liability. but the funny thing is, as you just explained to the viewers, his liability has already been determined. it's only left for this jury to decide the amount of damages to award e. jean carroll. but it doesn't mean judge kaplan has to completely ignore the screening process. it doesn't mean he has to ignore

the fact that you still have to sit fair and impartial jurors. in the jury selection process, you can strike jurors for cause. that's one thing. or take peremptory strikes. four cause challenges is because that juror cannot be fair and impartial. based upon the answers provided by a prospective juror that could result in him or her being stricken from a jury. and that is why jury selection, if you ask any trial lawyer, is sometimes more important than the actual presentation of the case itself. you're not going to have one of those spectacular perry mason-style moments anymore in court. jury selection is really the critical component of getting a case done, because usually by the time a lawyer gets up for opening statements, a juror has pretty much decided this case. >> andrew, talk about what you do about that. we have a -- as consistent polling shows, we have a huge number of americans who think,

thanks to donald trump, that the 2020 election was stolen, that he's being persecuted and prosecuted by the justice system and his political opponents. what do you do when that starts permeating juries when the trial is not actually on that topic? >> well, as katie said, that is the process that what happened this morning that judge kaplan oversaw, which was to allow the court and the parties to weed out people who cannot be fair and impartial and can't be confident that they could be fair and impartial with respect to the facts. that means that they have to, "a," weigh the facts only in terms of what happens in the courtroom, and "b," follow the law that is set forth by judge kaplan. here, that will include the finding of liability. so they're only determining the amount of damages, compensatory damages and punitive damages. and i will say, this is -- i

think to look at this, we've heard donald trump make lies about the election, about e. jean carroll outside of the courtroom. but inside the courtroom, lies tend not to work. and the claims of victimhood that happen outside of the courtroom have not been working inside the courtroom. and so, for instance, just this morning, donald trump was on truth social continuing to make statements that repeat what e. jean carroll says was defamatory. that happened even today. that's reminiscent of exactly what rudy giuliani did in his case where he was being sued for defamation. that might be a fine strategy politically. but in court, i think that those kinds of statements, which have already been brought to the attention of the jurors in this case, are going to backfire in the same way they did when rudy giuliani thought it was a good

strategy to make these kinds of statements on the first day of his defamation case. so yes, we worry about it in the political sphere. but in the court of law, as katie knows, it is a very different thing when you make those kinds of false statements. >> ronell, there's the legal argument in the court, there's the political stuff that andrew weiss was talking about that happens outside the court. there's also this middle ground that trump employed that rudy giuliani did to some degree, the undermining of the legal system. the idea that it's probably not going to go my way, so i'm going to use my bullhorn to tell everybody how rigged the system is. >> yes, and i think that part of what's going to be very interesting about the next couple of days is that we're really dealing with this new flavor of libel litigation that is trying to figure out how to deal with defendants that seem almost impervious to deterrence. and so we have to figure out how to map our old libel law

principles to these new frameworks that are very different than what we've expected. we know this defendant hasn't really been strategizing this as a libel law matter because the sorts of things -- the sorts of decisions you would make if you were strategizing this as a libel law matter are not the kinds of things we're seeing here. you would not, if you were strategizing this as a libel law matter, go on national television to repeat the lie right after a $5 million verdict declaring it to be a lie. you wouldn't lean in and double down on social media and express your ill will towards the plaintiff. you wouldn't suggest that you would get on the stand to contest things that had already been decided by a jury. those are all actually the opposite of the kinds of incentives we would ordinarily think would happen in the libel case. what we see these sets of recent defendants, giuliani now trump, really making different kinds of calculations here. they see that they're facing

staggering and historically significant potential punitive damages. and rather than trying to stanch those damages, they're sort of leaning into the lie. and seem to be making more public-facing strategy decisions about trying to set up a mechanism for weaponizing the ultimate verdict when it happens. these are things that are going to have to be considered in realtime by the judge in this case, by these jurors that have just been impaneled, by the lawyers for both sides. we really don't have a great game plan for what to do in libel law in these situations because it doesn't anticipate a defendant who will try to platform the lie in a damages proceeding. >> there's a lot of things we haven't anticipated that are occurring in the legal landscape that we hadn't thought about. katie, let's talk about why donald trump is even there. the liability -- they're going to determine what his liability is. but there's no question that

he's going to be liable. so what's he doing there? what's he doing in court? >> yes, i wrote a piece for msnbc online that tried to truncate an explanation of what this is. e. jean carroll sued donald trump twice. her original lawsuit, this is the one that started trial today. the reason why it took so long, even though it was filed in november 2019, is because it went through a very tortured appellate process. why? because at the time that donald trump made those defamatory statements about e. jean carroll, he was the then president of the united states. as you might recall, there was a lot of litigation over the idea that the department of justice could substitute itself in for donald trump, thereby basically removing any of his liability, and pretty much stopping e. jean carroll's lawsuit. but the doj eventually withdrew what it called its certification under a federal statute called the westphal act, saying when donald trump made those defamatory statements about e. jean carroll, he did it in his personal capacity. it wasn't like he was furthering

any purpose or duty under the united states government as his role as the president of the united states. while carroll won, as it's been called, winding its way through the federal appellate assess tell, carroll two, that went into trial in 2023, tagged with a $5 million verdict of compensatory and punitive damages. the reason i lay that table for you is because it's important for people to understand, when you go to trial and there's a verdict reached, there's something called collateral estoppel, also called issue preclusion. what it means is if a jury's already decided the issue of liability on a particular claim and you have the same parties -- meaning donald trump and e. jean carroll -- in trial again, you can't relitigate the issue. judge kaplan told donald trump, no do-overs are allowed, mr. trump. that is why the jury has a very unique job of only determining damages. but ali, the reason why it's

equally as important to consider the fact that donald trump was then the president of the united states in 2019 when he made these defamatory statements about e. jean carroll is what you read to the viewers about the opening statements that were made by her lawyer. because he was president of the united states, his reach was even more profound and more influential. the ability to amplify the lies about e. jean carroll was that much more powerful by him. so what donald trump did is he literally made his office of president of the united states back in 2019 the truest example of a bully pulpit. he literally redefined what a bully pulpit is. because as a bully, he tried to bully her into submission. but she's already won once before in court. and now she's going to deploy a damages expert, the same one that was used in her first trial, the same one that was used in ruby freeman and shea moss' defamation trial against rudy giuliani that resulted in a $148 million verdict against

him -- that same damages expert will be testifying in this trial. >> andrew, i see you nodding. what's going through your brain right now? >> i think there's no way you can give a better legal explanation than katie just gave. i think you've heard in the opening arguments already this idea that the damages need to be higher, not just because the former president is continuing to make the statements -- you're trying with punitive damages to deter him, so you can use all his current conduct. they actually talked this morning to the jury and this afternoon about his current statements. but also, as katie said, the fact that when he first started making these statements, he was the president of the united states. so it had added weight and the defamation is that much stronger. that's the argue being made to the jury. and just to go back to this idea

of what's happening in the courtroom to what's happening outside the courtroom, donald trump may be saying he's a victim and play is the victimization card and going to these trials as part of his victimization tour. but remember, a jury has already found that the victim in this case, in the e. jean carroll versus donald trump case, the victim is the woman who was sexually assaulted and defamed by donald trump. that has already been decided in a court of law, unanimously, by a jury. so do we actually have this dissonance between these claims outside of court in the political sphere, but what is happening in a court of law, decided by a civil jury, by a preponderance, in this cases clear and convincing evidence, in other cases, is that the victim here is e. jean carroll, who was sexually assaulted and defamed. the issue today that we will be hearing i think throughout this

week, but we'll have a verdict relatively quickly, is how much money in addition will be necessary to deter donald trump from continuing to make these defamatory statements. >> ronell, that's actually the issue. for most of us, being found responsible for libelling somebody by a court would generally be enough. with donald trump, it wasn't enough the day after a jury found him liable. what do you do to address what andrew calls the victimization tour? what do you do? is it just the amount of money that will compel donald trump to stop doing this? or some other remedy if he does what he sometimes does, walks out of court and starts talking about the same thing he just got found liable for? >> i think these are the cases that are really teeing up these questions in very hard ways for us. and one of the things that i think is worth mentioning and emphasizing is that punitive damages are actually, in many cases, in many libel cases, very

difficult to prove up. you have to show that someone is recalcitrant, that they have continued to perpetuate the lie, that they show an unrepentant nature that they are unwilling to stop that they are likely to repeat that they have ill will and malice towards the plaintiff. in a lot of cases, most cases, it's very difficult to do. this is the rare instance in which we have realtime, palpable evidence of a defendant who is continuing to reassert the lie after it's been adjudicated to be false. and who is doing so to wide audiences with -- in tones that suggest ill will towards the plaintiff. so a big piece of what's going to happen here is that the plaintiff's lawyers are going to need to make arguments about how staggering a figure is necessary to stop that kind of behavior. it's a punitive damage case for

the ages in many respects, because we don't often get that kind of behavior mapping onto the trial in realtime. >> ronell, thanks as always for joining us, ronell anderson jones. andrew and katie are sticking around. opening arguments are under wait right now. when it wraps for the day, we're going to head to the courthouse. when we come back, a win for jack smith today. the special counsel's search warrant of donald trump's twitter account allowed to hold after a social media company tried to appeal that ruling. we'll take a closer look at new evidence prosecutors now have access to in their election interference case against the ex-president. from new york to new hampshire, the defendant at court today heading to a campaign event in the granite state this evening, eager to pick off the remaining republican candidates. the knives are coming out for nikki haley, who's trying to find her own strategy on how to handle him. later, we'll look at the likely collision we're heading for this year with one candidate

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a d.c. circuit court of appeals ruled this afternoon the special counsel, jack smith, will have access to donald trump's twitter account as part of his election interference investigation. last year, smith's team was given access to the ex-president's data on twitter after the platform refused to comply with a search warrant. the case centered around whether trump should have been informed when the special counsel's office got court approval for the search of trump's data on the platform.

back with andrew and katie. thanks for being here. andrew, we're largely talking -- i guess the things that jack smith is most curious about are those things not otherwise in the public domain. along with the -- the company formerly known as twitter provided 32 direct messages. i think everything else jack smith had ways of finding? >> yeah, so what was decided today by the en banc, the full court of the d.c. circuit, is they weren't going to upset the decision that was already made, that jack smith complied with the law, that twitter had to turn this material over, and critically, as you pointed out, that they were not -- they could not and were not required -- twitter was not required to tell donald trump that they'd received this search warrant. that is a common thing when you do a search as part of a covert

investigation. you do not tell the target or subjects of the investigation that you're doing it. and there was good reason here to do a covert investigation, because you can just look at the larda federal case and see two types of obstruction of justice charged, interfering with the investigation, destroying evidence -- those are the part of the allegations in the florida case. so the court basically said it was totally proper to get this search warrant without notifying the subject of the search warrant. and that happens every day of the week. i think one of the most notable things here is that three of the judges who were sort of viewed as conservative judges issued a statement disagreeing, saying that they would have heard this case. i think they're basically really wrong here to say that in a criminal case, you have to alert the target.

just imagine how much that would interfere with criminal investigations if you investigate -- have to tell everyone exactly what you're doing and where you're going to go. it would render every search null, because if people knew the police were coming, they're going to go, time to get rid of documents before the police get there. so that was sort of the debate between the majority, which won out, obviously, and the three judges in dissent. but this is a vindication of the district judge, beryl howell, who made the initial decision, and the d.c. circuit finding that that was totally correct. >> katie, as we know, some things donald trump thinks are unfair and appeals, some things he appeals because it runs out a particular clock. what happens in this case? what are the remedies available to donald trump, and what do we think is likely to happen? >> well, basically what people need to realize, ali, is that

when -- this is the thing with twitter. this is not jack smith's fight. so twitter was having all of these problems, claiming first amendment, saying i can't turn this stuff over to jack submit. and when finally donald trump got notice of this subpoena, he had the opportunity to intervene, to invoke executive privilege. and i want everybody to hear me right now. donald trump didn't intervene. he had the chance. under the presidential records act, there's a notice and opportunity requirement. you have to give notice to a former president to give them the opportunity to invoke executive privilege over a purported presidential communication. to andrew's point, this is the collision of standard criminal procedure and practice and donald trump. because donald trump deleting servers in mar-a-lago, donald trump obstructing justice with witnesses, donald trump could never get notice of the fact that this subpoena was being served on twitter.

so when the district court judge rightfully decided it under the applicable law, an appellate court said she did the right thing. the en banc petition that was done by twitter was denied. they said, we're not going to disrupt this. what's fascinating is that the dissent or the group of people that andrew represents of judges that said they wanted to make sure they read a 14-page opinion to come along with this decision -- one of those judges is actually florence henderson, who -- judge henderson, excuse me, who was one of the judges that heard the d.c. circuit court of appeals appeal that donald trump did on the presidential immunity arguments last week. and we know that henderson definitely was not buying what trump was selling. so right now, trump could try to take this farther, but it's not going to go any farther, it's done. the records have been turned over, it's not going to go anywhere beyond what happened just now. >> andrew, when we talk about things like executive privilege, which donald trump has asserted in many cases, some of which have turned out to be correct,

many which have turned out to be incorrect, how do you consider something like twitter direct message? >> that's interesting because it came up, actually, in the -- sort of the three judges' statement as to why they disagreed with what was going on. they said, well, it's possible that he was having dms, direct messages, on twitter covered by executive privilege. and i thought that was kind of the weakest part of their statement, which is, really? what's the evidence of that? this is the kind of thing that a district judge, before she rules, can see what it is that is going to be turned over and can see whether it's anything remotely close to executive privilege. and remember, executive privilege is about communications that the president has with his closest advisers so that he or she can get the benefit of candid advice without worrying about all of

this becoming public. and so that is a legitimate privilege. the idea that that would happen on a dm on twitter seems what i would say fanciful. to me, what was surprising is that you had three judges on the d.c. circuit, which is a very well-respected circuit, engaging in this kind of speculation with no record to support it. i found that somewhat surprising and really going out on a limb. as katie said in a case where donald trump himself was not saying that this material was covered by executive privilege. so it's in that circumstance, this was so obviously the right thing. it was a vindication for jack smith. it is a vindication for judge beryl howell in terms of making sure that the rule of law was scrupulously followed. but also not giving donald trump more benefits than any other

criminal defendant. treating him the same as anyone else. >> i consider it a success if the word "fanciful" is used on a show i'm on before wednesday. so thank you. i'm going to go out on a high note with the two of you. andrew weissman, katie phang. andrew's back later in the program. new hampshire, trump setting sights on nikki haley as she frames the primary as a two-person race, telling reporters she won't debate just ron desantis anymore. driving, i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, it had to be fixed right. i scheduled with safelite autoglass. their experts replaced my windshield and recalibrated my car's advanced safety system. ♪ acoustic rock music ♪ >> woman: safelite is the one i trust. they focus on safety so i can focus on this view. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (♪♪) entresto is the #1 heart failure brand

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donald trump might as well just keep the plane running, bouncing back and forth across the united states like a ping-pong ball from court to campaign back to court to campaign again. it's enough to make a person dizzy. today, having crossed off the legal portion of his frantic itinerary in the e. jean carroll case, trump is again switching hats from that of defendant to that of iowa caucus-winning candidate. the disgraced ex-president is in new hampshire as we speak for an event at the top of the hour. meanwhile, two of his remaining competitors are both seeking to frame themselves as the viable alternative to trump. while ron desantis was the runner-up in iowa, it's nikki haley's campaign that's claiming the momentum. perhaps trump's team sees it the same way. new reporting from nbc indicates his campaign is setting sights on nikki haley, vowing to go after her reputation and image with the new hampshire primary next week. nbc news correspondent ali

vitali in new hampshire. editor-at-large for "the bulwark," charlie sykes. welcome, thank you for being with us. ali v., let's start with you. out in new hampshire, symbolizing the cold that it is. talk about nikki haley. she didn't come in second, but it was awful close. she wanted the momentum going into new hampshire where things -- polling indicates she's closer to trump than she was in iowa? >> yeah, awful close doesn't get you second or first in the case of ron desantis. but it does get you enough momentum to get into new hampshire. for nikki haley, it gives her enough to try to turn the page and say this is a binary race between her and the former president. that's the new narrative that she's trying to present here on the ground. we're seeing it in the advertisements that she's running on tv. we're also seeing it in the way that she struck a different tone on the former president last

night. during her speech she kept repeating the phrase, trump and biden, biden and trump, lumping them together in age, the same task generation of leadership. it dovetails nicely with the message that she is the new generational representation of the republican party. of course, you look at the results from last night and it becomes sort of clear that at least in iowa, they don't want a new representation. at least not right now. even someone like ron desantis said he met voters who said they loved him and they'd vote for him, bit next election cycle. it's really difficult to run as a trump-lite when trump is in the race when voters can have exactly the person they've wanted the entire time. i think last night was instructive, if not for the ways this primary race could change, ali, but for the ways that the party has kind of confirmed the suspicions that we've had this entire primary. not just that trump is the heir apparent to the throne that he

was the last to sit in, but also the fact that they don't care about any of the things that should in theory be political liabilities for him. the idea that he's bouncing between campaign trail to courtroom and back again, in any other election cycle, i think that would seem unfathomable. in this one, his rivals are unwilling to say the quiet part out loud, which is that it's still bad to be indicted, it's definitely bad to have 91 criminal indictments against you. have to be battling on four different legal fronts to conserve yourself so that you don't end up on the ball to the as an actual convicted criminal. trump has been able to convince voters in iowa the majority said he's still qualified to be president even if he's convicted in any one of these cases. that's a stunning reminder of the ways he is bent this party to his will and sort of given them the space to accept all the things that should be political liabilities, but somehow are not. i think for someone like nikki

haley, until she starts going at him directly on something like that, the electorate is not going to change. the thing that's different about new hampshire is that you're not just gunning for republicans here. instead, you're also looking at independents and maybe even democrats who could potentially play in this primary pool, at least for a little while. that's the thing that could really shake up the race in terms of haley being able to place second or potentially even challenge trump for first. >> charlie, one of the things donald trump has said he's going to do now is go after haley. he said over the weekend, you're going to find out a lot about haley in the next short period of time. she was an elected governor, senate confirmed because she was the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, she's been in public life for a long time. is this just trump being trump? or does nikki haley have something to worry about that he's setting his sights on her? >> trump is always trump. this is not a surprise. he is going to attack. he's going to vilify. he will throw every bit of mud up against the wall.

and look, there are two narratives to come out of iowa, and they're both true. one is that this is donald trump's party. it has been completely maga-guide. 49 days until super tuesday. it is very difficult to man him not getting the nomination. he is dominant. but the other takeaway is he's also incredibly vulnerable for some of the reasons ali mentioned here. because when you look at the numbers -- first of all, it was a very, very small turnout. you have 25% of the iowa cau kiss doesgoers who say they will not vote for donald trump in the general election. you have more than 30% who say they believe that criminal convictions are, in fact, disqualifying for him. so, yes, he has played to his maga loyal base by playing the victim card. but in a very short period of time, he's going to turn to a general electorate which i think may have a very different reaction to bouncing back and forth between the campaign trail

and criminal and civil trials. how many people in his base or swing voters, more likely, actually know about the e. jean carroll case? know when he shows up at a courthouse, that he is -- has been found liable for sexual assault? so the things that worked for him in the maga world, to nail down this nomination, i think you are seeing the potential weakness going into a general election. i'm trying to imagine any female voters in the suburbs of pennsylvania looking at his behavior in the e. jean carroll case and saying, yeah, i didn't vote for him in 2020, but now he's my guy. so i think you have, again, two things. dominant in the republican party, but increasingly vulnerable as a general election candidate. >> basil, there are complexities about nikki haley now being ascendant. one of them when is she was asked about a simple question, the history of the civil war as the governor of south carolina. one would know that. i think you have to read that.

she was trying to not offend that base she's going to try and go for if something were to happen to trump. interestingly, nbc polling this weekend indicated of the people who support her as their first choice, their second choice is not donald trump or ron desantis, it's joe biden. >> right. >> so she's really got the strange road that she has to walk right now. she knows she's got a lock on, potentially, republican moderates, maybe even some democrats in the election? >> that's why charlie's point is so important about the kind of general election candidate that trump would be. nikki haley is a far better general election candidate. look, years ago when she presided over the taking down of the confederate flag in the capitol of south carolina, you could say whatever the political motive was, wow, okay, i can see that there could be an appeal to more moderate republicans and such. since then, she's really taken on the trump maga sort of language. when you also essentially defend

donald trump through all of these legal matters, then you're essentially not creating the difference that voters need to see between you and that guy. there is no difference there. there's no differentiation. and so if you're going to get trump-lite, why not just vote for trump? and so that's one of the challenges that i think both hale reserve and desantis have had. going forward, she can make the case to independents in new hampshire that she's a better general election candidate. maybe even to some democrats. the problem when is she gets to south carolina. you've got a far more evangelical, far more conservative vote there's really supported donald trump in iowa. why. >> you look at exit and entrance polls, trump's voters are more enthusiastic about him and they say with greater frequency that he shares their values. you don't get that with nikki haley. so the question is, she may be able to make the argument she's a better general election candidate, but will she ever get

that opportunity? >> right. and she has said in deciding whether or not she's going to compete, take part in the next debate, she said, not if it's not donald trump. she says the next debate is either with trump or with biden. ali vitali, always a pleasure to have the other ali v. on the show with me. one of these days, maybe 2024 is the day we get "the ali v." show. coming up, prib called donald trump the official front-runner for the republican nomination. he's hoping to keep focus on the 2024 election and warning about the dangers of a second trump administration. eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition. which is now more important than ever. ♪♪

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if last night's results in iowa taught us anything, it's that the 2024 republican nomination is donald trump's to lose. hidden in the caucus results might be a silver lining for the biden campaign as the messenger points out today. "headed into caucus night, both private and public polls found a majority of undecided voters, those most up for grabs this year were still unsure of whether trump will be his party's nominee at all." biden's internal polling has highlighted this trend, coulding to campaign officials. that trend was a hurdle for president biden to frame the election as a binary choice between him and trump like in 2020. now president biden might see new momentum, writing in an

email supporters immediately after trump was declared winner last night, "the iowa results are in, and it's clear. donald trump is the official front-runner for the 2024 republican nomination. we need to work even harder now." back with charlie and basil. tell me what that means, we need to work even harder now? who does joe biden think he was convincing that donald trump was actually going to be the nominee, and what does working harder mean? >> well, i don't know that there were that many people he needed to convince. there are a lot of folks that felt he was going to be the nominee. if there was a need for greater sense of urgency, now is the time to talk about it. look who's coming out for donald trump. the majority of voters in iowa believed that joe biden's not the legitimate winner of that race. if we're concerned about democracy, if we're concerned about fair and safe elections, among other things, you've got to come out and get engaged. the issue is that donald trump's been weaving this narrative for his supporters for a very long time. and it is correct that biden and

democrats are good to try to create that very stark contrast between the two. the question is, are those issues like the economic numbers, all of the things that, as a democrat, you would normally lean on, is it going to work? is it going to sort of seep in? i think eventually it will, especially as they start spending money. however, there are still a lot of voters -- we talk about african american voters not coming out. white voters don't come outer. there are a lot of voters who are still, i don't know if i like this guy, is there something else, can we go another direction? he's got to work hard to stop that conversation. >> charlie, whether that conversation's happening amongst regular people going out to vote, i had a great conversation with jonathan capehart. he said, "we live in a different bubble most people do. when people are making their choices, they will consider the consider, they will consider the argument about democracy, they will consider the argument about

reproductive choice, they will consider the fact that donald trump will be in a bunch of trials." the question is when do they start doing that, and will it be in time to stop donald trump from becoming the next president? >> well, 2024 is not a referendum on joe biden. it's going to be a choice. i think that's how you have to frame it. it's not -- i think biden will sometimes say, i'm not running against the almighty, i'm running against this other guy. but to your point, i think there's a remarkable number of people that are in denial even at this late date. kind of grimacing at the prospect, it's going to be biden versus trump, it's not going to be biden versus trump? it is going to be. when that settles in, i think your going to start to see some firming up of some of these numbers. who knows. part of it is just the sense, there is a sense of exhaustion. there's a sense of burnout on the part of the electorate. but a lot of voters do not live in the bubble that we live in.

they do not follow this every single day. they are not following the ups and downs. when they are confronted with a very stark choice, i think we are going to have a political different environment, which is not to minimize the problems that joe biden has. it's not a referendum on joe biden. it's a choice. donald trump is going to make that choice really stark. >> is it going to matter whether more republicans or more of the people we believe to be still republicans come out to make the point that charlie made. this isn't about joe biden. it's not about his age or most of the things you normal ily think about. it's about whether cross democracy is on the line. >> i think there are more moderate republicans that are still republican and former republicans that do believe that. in some ways, i take the point that it doesn't need to be about joe biden. if you think, and i have said

for a long time, it's not about donald trump. he changes his mind every day. republicans believe they can get what they want passed through him. he's a vehicle. let's look at joe biden. it's not about joe biden but about all the things we love about our democracy that we get by electing joe biden, by getting hakeem jeffrey to speaker of the house. all these benefits of going out and voting for a party that believes in democracy, these are things that i think the administration can argue that will appeal to republicans independents. >> that was a pretty good. you should be a strategist. appreciate it. thank you both. a very quick break for us. up next, it looks like trump adviser peter navorro is still going to jail. we'll tell you his latest attempt to get out of it, next. attempt to get out of it, next that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections

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bringing free surgeries to people who have no other hope. $19 a month will help provide urgently needed surgery for so many still suffering. so don't wait, call the number on your screen. or donate at mercyships.org. former trump adviser peter navorro's hopes of avoiding prison have been quashed after a judge denied him. he was convicted become in september for refusing to comply with the january 6th subpoenas, his lawyers had argued that the jury was influenced by anti-navorro protesters during a brief break in their deliberations. the judge didn't buy that writing, no one directed any words orisplayed any signst them. no one approached them. more over, the scenetself was placid. there was no indiscriminate yelling or chanting. no one held a sign above their

head. there were no activities resembling a protest. he's scheduled to be sentenced next week. court has adjourned for the day against donald trump. we'll get a live report right after this quick break. we'll get a live report right after this quick break okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪)

what percentage of your time these days is spent on your campaign? what percentage is spent on your legal issues? >> well, see my legal issues, every one of them, civil and the criminal ones, are all set up by

joe biden, crooked joe biden. fl a way, you'd consider it part of the campaign. because if you look at it, they are doing this. it's never been done like this in the can country. >> who is they? it's 5:00 in new york. i'm ali velshi. as viewers of this program you know we don't love airing the ex-president's falsehoods, his claim that his 91 criminal charges and other civil cases were set up by the current president is plainly not true. they are a means of upholding the rule of law in this country. but we play that sound byte for you because he gets to another important point. the, quote, i guess you'd consider it part of the campaign, end quote, part. donald trump has spun these important hallmarks of accountability and justice as pawns in his political game. his comment drives home the point that this election is unlike any other, because if he wins the nomination and last night's result, you have a pretty clear indication that he

will, the race for president in 2020 will involve a man so steeped in legal battles that he will try to blur the lines between politics and justice. he's already doing it. if he wins the nomination, there will bstion where the republican party s on law and order. it means their candidate will for the next several months will be juggling a very crowded calendar of legal and political demands. the blue squares are political there. the red ones are legal. take what's happening today. fresh off his caucus win, trump flew to new york to appear in court in the second e. jean carroll defamation case where she will call the former president up a as a witness with. over in washington state, a challenge to trump's eligibility to be on the ballot over questions of section 3 of the 14th amendment will likely go before a judge later this week. that means there are now 14th amendment challenges in more than a dozen states across the all of which hinge on a decision

by the supreme court, which did agree to hear the case out of colorado. oral arguments in that case will start on february 8th. the supreme court also likely to weigh in on the question of presidential immunity, a defense that trump has tried to use to dismiss the federal election sbr feerns case against him. and there's still the classified documents case, the georgia racketeering case, the hush money cases, which the ex-president will contend in the coming months. all of this bares repeating because a man likely to be a major political party's candidate for president is one facing multiple indictments, who has said wants to weaponize the justice system and could be criminally convicted before the first ballots are even cast. that's where we start this hour with the former top prosecutor andrew weissman. he's back with us. plus david jolly. with me a at the table is the host of fast politics podcast molly fast. and joining us from outside the courthouse where court has ended for the day in the e. jean

carroll trial is legal analyst lisa rubin. we're going to start with you, lisa. this is the first day of this part of this trial. it was already an active day. what has happened. >> so after the lunch break, which came fairly late, both parties delivered their opening statements. and if it you listen to both of them, you would have thought with respect talking about two different cases, two entirely different universes. when you listen to e. jean carroll's lawyer, donald trump has all been destroyed her life. that started in june of 2019 when he first called her a liar, denied that he sexually assaulted her, and said that she was essentially a political operative or had other ulterior motives. a fact that's no longer in dispute thanks to the jury verdict last may. one of the things that kept

being hammered over and over again, the law for e. jean carroll is that she wants the jury to consider when they are thinking about punitive damages, how much will it take to make it stop? because as recently as this morning, she noted donald trump defamed her again no less than 22 times just today. but then trump's lawyer got up and in her version of events, e. jean carroll is a woman who is fame hungry and wanted nothing more than to be famous. what her client did was unleash nothing but a few mean tweets. should donald trump be accountable for all of the mean tweets that e. jean carroll has endured? i i should point out some of those mean tweets go far beyond mean to threatening her life, suggesting she should commit suicide and even threatening her with further rape. so we saw two very totally different accounts of what happened here.

the thing that keeps sticking in my mind most of all is when the judge was instructing the jury about what facts were already given, he said, mr. trump sexually assaulted e. jean carroll by forcibly inserting her fingers into her vagina, a statement i never thought would be said about the winner of the iowa caucuses. >> you know e. jean carroll. 2023, we generally should have learned as a society we don't accuse women who claim to be sexually assaulted of being fame hungry. donald trump knows this very well. you know e. jean carroll. this is not who she is. >> she's an 80-year-old woman. i don't think she wants to be -- we all know what it's like when trump comes after you. it's horrendous. and i don't think that at 80, she wants to be getting death threats. it's quite scary. i'm sure she's had -- i don't know for fact, but i assume

she's had to hire security. all of the republican senators are afraid to go against trump. these people are afraid for a reason. it's quite scary. and this is a woman, an older woman. she had a great career, by don't think being famous for being sexually assaulted and trashed by the former president is a thing. >> we played that -- it's controversial to play donald trump saying anything particularly when he lies as much as he does, but it was important to hear that because he said all of the things that he's facing in the legal world were all set up by joe biden. we worry because donald trump says these things. when he says them enough, people start to believe them. i'm not asking you to disprove any of that stuff because we don't have to bother with that, but it's intriguing outside of these courts on the same days he has court appearances or days before or after, he puts this stuff out there.

>> absolutely. his statement just to be plain here, completely ignores the fact that there have been juries that have found this -- leave aside judges have found this as well, but here e. jean carroll proved her case to a jury anonymously by a preponderance of the evidence and even at times by clear and convincing evidence. a criminal jury found beyond a reasonable doubt that the trump organization engaged in a multi-year tax scheme and criminally convicted them. that is jurors. those are civilian people like you and me going to court, doing their job. so this is not a joe biden witch hunt. one thing that is notable to what you heard from molly and lisa.

it's about the kind of conduct that donald trump unleashes. so the jury that was just empanelled today is fully anonymous, meaning that the judge, the parties, the plaintiff and the defendant do not know the identifies. judge caplin said that the jurors should not use their real names with each other. the jurors are going to be escorted to and from the courthouse. this is the kind of things that happens in mob cases. that's what we are dealing with because of trump and the kind of violence he condoneses. it is worth noting that jurors do their duty and have done that in both criminal and civil cases and i suspect they will do so again in this case.

>> there was an entrance poll taken last night. the question and these were republican caucus goers, if donald trump is convicted, is he fit to be president? 64% said yes. 31% said no. what do you make of that? >> i still maintain that donald trump ignited a cultural movement and parked it inside the republican party. that has morphed into a political movement, and arguably, the only political movement that has any momentum. last night in iowa, there's only one candidate with momentum, and it is donald trump. sure, ron desantis and nikki haley are trying to claim momentum or create t but the reality is, there is real cultural and political momentum behind donald trump's movement. the maga movement. so then that buoys the former president to feel he's invincible. the destination we're all heading to is obvious. donald trump is going to be asking for absolution when he's

on the ballot in november against joe biden. and sadly, it doesn't even require a majority of voters to grant him that absolution. and will that allow him to unwind some of the civil verdicts or even the criminal cases? probably not. not certainly all of them, and not with purify dellty, but imagine a sitting donald trump who is liable for $30 million in a civil verdict in the e. jean carroll case. he says i'm not going to pay. what do you do now? what are the criminal consequences of somebody who refuses to pay if they are the sitting president. this is a dangerous moment. we revisit it often on this platform. you do as well. but i think it's clear where we're headed, which is the question next november of whether or not donald trump can achieve absolution ballot box that he's unable to achieve in the courtroom. >> a doubleheader for you, lisa. you stated part of the

determining here is how much will it take to make it stop. which would be an amazing t-shirt. i would contribute to that fund. but the second question is there were questions asked by the judge of potential jurors about these questions, about whether or not these jurors felt the election was rigged and whether or not the state is seemed to be going against donald trump on a political basis. a few people answered in the affirmative. give me your take on both those things. >> reporter: let's start with the back end. the people who answered in the affirmative are not jurors who ended up on the jury. there's been a bunch of precautions to ensure that this jury remains anonymous. so i have a number of notes in a notebook off camera right now that identify these jurors by numbers. i can can tell you a certainty the people who stood up and said that they have doubts about the 2020 election and whether or not it was lgitimate. nert one of them is seated on this jury. the only other person who raised their hand during that portion was donald trump himself. in terms of the beginning, how

much will it take to make him stop, that's a question that was posed in the con texas of punitive damages. she never suggested a particular number. she said it should be significant, very significant, after all, he is a self-professed billionaire. just let that hang there. she, again, repeated that he is a self-proclaimed billionaire. so i think right now, we're not at a point where they have identified for the jury what quantum of damages they think is enough to make it stop, but they are making reference to donald trump's net worth. as a defamation lawyer can tell you n the context of punitive damages, how much a person is worth is an absolutely relevant factor in a punitive damages award. it came up in rudy giuliani's defamation trial too, where that may have -- and i know this is going to sound crazy, may have reduced the punitive damages there. maybe it could have been higher

than $148 million total if the jurors didn't believe that ultimately he was going to be broke very soon. >> lisa, you suffered enough in the cold. warm up. thaung for your reporting. andrew, to david's point, the punitive damages will obviously have some impact on donald trump. but he does thumb his nose at the system a lot. with a civil trial, if he's instructed to pay, what happens? does he have to pay? what happens if it he doesn't pay? >> if it he doesn't pay, there are various steps that the plaintiff can take to seize assets and to force sale. so that is something that we're seeing in the rudy giuliani case, where he went into bankruptcy, but there's certainly going to be a request to have relief from the sort of bankruptcy protection.

there's going to be litigation over a court order about an injunction that was requested to have the judge enjoin rudy giuliani from making further defamatory statements. that's another step. so i think with respect to trump, if there is a significant judgment, there will be assets that e. jean carroll and her very tenacious group of lawyers will be able to go after. so i'm less worried about that. i'm more worried because that's money. and that's certainly found already to be a victim here. and so the question is how much more money is she entitled to. but the real issue that david jolly raises is this dissidence between what is happening inside the courtroom and what is happening outside the koom.

courtroom. you have a victim e. jean carroll, but you have donald trump outside of the courtroom saying he's the victim. you have the rule of law and a place where facts and law matter inside the courtroom, and outside of it you have donald trump denigrating everybody who would have any part in that system, whether social security it's jurors, judges, the plaintiff to attack them the way he's attacked prosecutors, the media, republicans who he thinks are insufficiently loyal, joe biden, and so the real issue is going to be at ballot box in november is to what extent the rule of law in this country going to be something that people care about and care enough about to vote for it. as opposed to something that's

just simply not true. >> it's one thing to campaign and have a political agenda about what you want to do. donald trump has convinced some people he does. but a lot of this is vindictiveness. a lot of this is vindication he seems. a lot of it is the targeting. we talk about e. jean carroll, but he said you're going to learn more about nikki haley in a few weeks. he's signaling, as many dictators have in the past, that this is what it's going to look like under me. i'm going to go after everybody who was a critic, who was legitimate opposition, who was a journalist. is that sinking in with the electorate? >> i want to go back to david's point about trump winning the iowa caucuses. he did, but it's important we talk about turnout. because it was 110,000 people turned out yesterday. it was cold, but if you compare that to 2016, it was 187,000. this base is shrinking. so yes, he is very scary. the stuff he says is scary.

the stuff he's doing where he refers to people as vermin, i don't want to go to gitmo. it's scary having a president talking about that. if if you look at these numbers, 70,000, 77,000 less people are going to caucus for him. this is a guy who needs to turn out voters. he won by turning out voters. so i have to wonder, yes, he won in iowa, but he really won with much smaller turnout. enthusiasm is the way that trump wins. and if we're seeing this level of enthusiasm in iowa where that is his base, white evangelicals, it's worth pulling back and worrying about what kind of turnout you're going to see. >> we're going to keep an eye out for that. thank you. great to see you. andrew, thank you for doing double duty for us tonight and

david jolly as well. when we return, why election workers from across the country say they are scared to death. the one thing that keeps them up at night as voting gets underway. plus one day after the ex-president's victory in iowa, a warning from overseas about the death of american democracy and the erosion of global alliances in a potential second trump term. also we're following new developments from the pentagon as the u.s. military looks to neutralize iranian-backed rebels in yemen who targeted ships in the red sea. deadline white house continues after a quick break. e for a better future. friends, they are the future. but did you know that millions of kids right here in our own backyard are facing hunger every day without healthy food? it's harder to grow, to thrive, to feel their best. the impact when children don't have enough to eat is tremendous because when you're hungry

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donald trump won iowa last night thanks to an unsettle thing majority of caucus goers, whose entrance polls deny the results of the 2020 presidential election despite any evidence of widespread voter traud. that includes 91% of trump supporters. 5% of whom say joe bidens was the legitimate winner. it's an alarming chunk of the republican party and the electorate and it's one that continues to grow. it's also one local election workers are growing more worried about. while bracing for election denialism, conspiracy theoies and the threats and intimidation, from that new reporting, i'm scared to death about the level of voter distrust heading into 2024. his comments were echoed by dozens of others among a crowd of 100 local election workers.

pz joining our conversation is former counterintelligence peter struck. thank you for being here. let's just start with the election denialism. the idea that there are still a number of people who are making decisions on our part, the turnout in iowa was substantially lower for trump than it has been in the past, but still a lot of people who straight up believe the election was not proper. >> absolutely. what we're facing is a legitimate crisis. that's the erosion of trust and confidence in the administrative function of the state with regards to elections. and that erosion of trust means there's going to be doubt centered around the results. so if donald trump doesn't win, will they accept the results? and given the big lie and its

long legs, as it were, we should be reasonably conclude they will be doubtful of those results. and so part of what we're facing here is this legitimate crisis. and if that's the case, then the very foundations of american democracy for at least in my lifetime, are shaky in this instance. it's not a matter of a large number of folk, even though it is, it's a matter of the scope and breath of the distrust, which leads to a crisis of legitimacy. >> so this is important because when you combine that with the other part of that reporting, poll workers are worried, they are scared. many of them are leaving. many are volunteers. they are trying to figure out ways to educate the public on how voting works because they are worried about how many people distrust it. so i think eddie has an interesting point. you don't need half of america to doubt the legitimacy.

a very small portion of america deciding that elections are not real or the outcomes are not valid can be disruptive to this country. >> that's absolutely right. donald trump has made it a center piece of his public commentary that the elections were illegitimate and continues to this day to make the point that the voting process can't with be trusted. now state and local election officials are going to go out of their way to be very transparent in everything they are doing. but to some extent, that's not going to matter. you have a large population of people who aren't going to believe any outcome except that which donald trump wins. and unfortunate ily, you have people, just look at the examples of the people the in the past election, who were so attacked they simply on doing their job as publicer issen vants, not appointed officials or elected officials, just doing their job who were attacked for just that fact.

and the great irony behind this is there are at least a couple of instances where voting officials have been accused of cooperating not with anybody on the democratic side, but with republicans in georgia and then in mesa county in colorado. some election officials have been accused of illegally cooperating. so i don't know how we get around this, whether or not state and local officials do erg they can and they already are to be transparent, i'm afraid that's not going to be enough. >> this whole thing started when donald trump was asked whether he would accept the results of an election the last time around. and implied he might not. it did work. we didn't fix voting access the way we were hoping we would all those years ago. so we have not caused a situation in which more people find it easier to vote. we have a problem where more

people are infecting the system with the idea the outcomes are not to be trusted. how does that affect turnout because that could be what this next election hinges on. >> it affects turnout dramatically. it's not only all the things you just described, it's also the very direct attempts at voter suppression. over the course of the last few years. so 2024 is going to be a dramatically tense election. not only because the broader question of american democracy is on the ballot, but because how it's executed. and remember there's historical press dent for this. if we don't defend the process, if we don't demand that donald trump and othersed a mutt that they will accept the results of the election, these forces will overrun the process.

so we have to become more aggressive. the press has to begin to ask not only donald trump and the other republican candidates, but those on the other side. will they accept the results. we have to start building trust and confidence in the process now. we can't allow these folks to overrun our electoral process. >> i guess for a long time, we just didn't assume that was a litmus test of participating in elections in america. one would assume you would take a technical reason to challenge it, you conceded defeat. part of the problem is we're running this next election on the by sis of different things to different people. it might be the economy, might be democracy, might be reproductive rights burks actually we have all got to lean into voting, the right to vote and trust in the system. >> right. and i think eddie is right. he's by far and away the expert on these sorted history of

voting abuses. what we're facing in this context is a whole host of new ways that that can be undermined by actors. whether it's the use of artificial intelligence to create false reporting. whether it's foreign actors like russia or china trying to either sew disinformation. there's any number of things today this are available to malicious actors that we have never had to confront before as a nation. all of those things are going to be brought to forefront by a variety of actors to try to undermine this faith that we absolutely have to maintain and lean into when it comes to our voting process. so it's going to be an extraordinary challenge. it's going to be something unlike anything we have seen in our history. and we have got to get ready for it now. >> the good news is it's the one challenge we can all take up. we can all do something. if everybody in america who

votes gets one other person to vote, that problem can be solved. thank you. we appreciate you joining us this afternoon. when we return, why the twice impeached disgraced ex-president's victory in iowa is raising concerns among our allies in europe about democracy. back with that after a short break. acy. back with that after a short break. (avo) kate made progress with her mental health... ...but her medication caused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily td treatment for adults.

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is democracy still america's

scred cause? it's the most urgent question of our time. that's what the 2024 election is all about. >> shouldn't really be a question about that one, but he's asking it. president biden addressing the anniversary of the insurrection on the inflection point that america is in ahead of the 2024 election. an inflection point not just for the united states, but for the world. earlier today, the president of the european union sending out a stark warning. f 2024 brings us america first again, it's more than ever europe on its own. adding that this is the year our democracies and liberties will be put to the test. in a sign of the deep erosion of our democratic institutions and how much is at stake this november, he went on to add the threats to global democracy came

not just from the prospect of a trump presidency, but equally for the u.s. congress and the american presidency. joining our conversation is a columnist for the atlantic nn applebalm. people who live in populations will live in a country in which there are elections. many of them will not be safe or fair, but we'll be voting a lot this year. all eyes really are on america. the president of the european union making an interesting point. it's not just about donald trump in america. >> no, europeans watch very carefully u.s. politics. they understand congressional politics. they are watching particularly carefully right now the debate in congress about aid to ukraine, something that they had understood the majority of americans support, majority of republicans support, majorities in congress support, but they see how a small minority in

congress has been able to block it. and they are worried a about what that augers for the future. i don't think most americans realize the degree to which our country is seen as a leader, even by people who don't particularly like us, they accept the united states as the leader of the world's democracies. when they think that's coming to an end, they are just stressed. they don't know what's going to happen next. it creates new circumstance for countries, people all over the world. >> and it actually has material implications. there are european leaders who say under donald trump, there's an de-emphasis on nato and a cozying up to russia. and under joe biden and the ukraine war, these european nations came to see we're all in this together. but if we're not going to be in this together, it means a lot of different things. it means european nations saying this alliance is not as strong

as we think it is. that contributes to the erosion of other people's democracies, not just other own. >> it's a reasonable conclusion to draw. the instability of american democracy, the rise of ill liberal forces in the world should lead reasonable people in europe to believe they are going to have to turn more inward in order to think about their own security economically and militarily. so we talk about this in american history, one of the things i conclude is we're seeing the fraying of the world war ii consensus. as the age of europe comes to a close, as we see the decolumnization of the third world, that offered stability. but now that super power seems to be in the throws of its own dark of forces. you combine that with the black eye that the u.s. is taking globally with regards to the war in gaza, no wonder folks are beginning to ask questions about the leader of the free world.

>> the president has invited the top four congressional leaders to the white house to discuss the ukraine aid. but the criticism that america received this morning was from an ally. one of the big concerns i have is the adversaries out there watching this same game and thinking to themselves, this is working, this could work in our favor nicely president reelection of donald trump, if you're russia, perhaps if you're china, perhaps if you're north korea and iran could in some ways work in your favor. >> yes, they have been watching carefully. some of them have placed a big bet on the idea that the united states won't hold out, this we won't be able to continue to defend ukraine, that we won't stand up for our allies anywhere. they are hoping that the united states fractures, that trump wins and trump turns the united states in a different direction, perhaps inward or disorganized.

one of the things that the united states is known for is its commitment to collective security. we standby our allies, that we will come to their defense when attacked. that's the essence of the nato treat tirks but also behind our promises to south korea to japan, taiwan. once countries no longer believe in that collective defense, once they don't think we really need it anymore, the temptation to break, the temptation to test it, to invade, to tease, to cross borders, to drop bombs, it becomes strong. it may see a real spread in international violence. >> it's a good conversation. except these things don't win elections. foreign policy is no the at the top of the list, unless we're in our own war. joe biden working very hard to keep this post world war ii alliance and understanding intact to fend off some of these a adversarial moves.

it doesn't necessaryly resinate with everyday americans. what does one do about that? >> you have to act in spite of it all. he's running for reelection, but he still is the president of the united states opinion and so these alliances, anne is right. if it's perceived that the united states doesn't come to the aid of its allies, it frees up bad actors to act badly. and so the president has to continue to engage in the policies that he's engaged in, understanding that criticisms will come. but in terms of the election, we are faced with those forces that threaten the very foundation of american democracy itself. if we're going to stabilize what's happening on the global stage, we have to make sure we take care of matters at home the

and we have to do that now. desperate ily. >> anne, you have studied political systems and political people. i'm curious what you say to people who say if donald trump is out of the way, this antidemocratic problem we've got may start to remedy itself. do you believe that? or or do you believe this has taken too deep a root? >> two things i want to say. one is that the implication of your question is right. there's a deeper problem. in your previous reporting, you were saying that very high percentage a of voters and republican voters in iowa believe the election was stolen. the spread of conspiracy theories issue the lack of trust in institutions, these are deep problems. they are not going to go metalwala when trump goes away. i would like to say one other thing, which is that you say this is not a foreign policy election. foreign policy doesn't win elections. sometimes it does. i think americans and polling does show this, americanss like

the idea they stand for something good in the world. that their country means something. maybe not always, maybe not all the time, maybe not at every circumstance, but americans did like the idea that we were defending ukraine. and i am worried that if something happens, if it we aren't able to continue aiding ukraine, that could have a big impact on the election. it will undermine biden's portrayal of himself as a defender of democracy at home and around the world. >> i appreciate the two of you. thank you for this important discussion. we always appreciate you. when we return, we'll get latest on a developing story out of the pentagon. the military stepping up attacks on iran-backed houthi rebels in yem. iran-backed houthi relsbe yem.

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[ cellphone whooshes ] [ sighs ] that's why progressive makes it easy to save with a commercial auto quote online so you can take on all your others to-dos. already did. see if you could save at progressivecommercial.com. the situation in the middle east is growing increasingly tense. today the u.s. military conducted yet another strike against the houthi rebels in yemen targeting anti-ship missiles after officials determined the missiles posed a threat to commercial vessels. it comes as iran fired the missiles near a consulate in irbil. iran's revolutionary guard stated the missiles were launched in response to, quote, terrorist crimes. a national security council spokesperson said no u.s. personnel were injured in those attacks. we want to bring in national

security correspondent courtney cuby who has been watching this situation unfold. >> we have had a ton of activity in just the last 24 hours or so. as you mentioned, there were these ballistic missiles that struck in northern iraq last night. as you mentioned the guard corp. said they targeted an israeli intelligence site there. u.s. officials are casting doubt on that. not confirming it, but as you mentioned, saying there were no u.s. facilities struck. they are confirming that there were civilians including children kill president that strike. in addition, we are still seeing this continued tension that iran is involved with at sea. specifically in the red sea. the houthis today fired off another ballistic missile. this time striking commercial ship in the southern red sea. it was still sea worthy at the time. it was a able to keep going on

with damage. there were no injuries, but the u.s. also striking back today. this is a little bit different. we talked a lot last week about these massive airstrikes that the military took on houthi rebels on thursday evening. more than 150 precision-guided missiles and bombs targeting more than 60 locations. this is a little different. the u.s. military saw what appeared to be some anti-ship cruise missiles that were preparing to launch into the busy shipping lanes in the southern red sea. the u.s. taking what they often refer to as a dynamic strike. so they saw something about to happen. they used their right of self-defense to take out those ballistic missiles. but the key here is that despite this ongoing strikes from thursday night, one friday night, another one today, the houthis are clearly continuing to try to threaten the shipping lanes in the southern red sea? it really is having an impact on shipping. many carriers are rerouting

their ships out of that area. >> it's 7 out of 10 biggest in the world have said they are not using the suez canal. they are going to go south around south for example. until this end, they are the houthis are winning. until it feels like it's safe for shipping, the shippers aren't going back that way. >> and the reality is the u.s. and british military strike, they took out a significant amount of the houthis' military capability. what's clear is they are going to continue to go after and threaten these shipping lanes. as long as that's the case, even if it's -- we thursday night, we haven't seen a massive volley of projectiles out of the houthis like we have been seeing and they are just about every 24 hours or so they are still targeting the red sea. as long as they threaten that area it will continue to be an area that the shipping companies will want to avoid for their

insurance reasons and for the safety of the ships and their crews. u.s. officials have been telling us that iran has continued to supply the houthis throughout this entire uptick of the houthi rebels and we saw evidence of that late last week. the u.s. navy saw them suspected of carrying illegal weapons and they sent a u.s. s.e.a.l. team to check it out and it was a dow loaded with missile parts from iran headed for the houthi rebels, and one reason we've been paying attention to the interdiction of this equipment and these missiles, the navy s.e.a.l., in the nighttime seas and rough waters and another jumped in to save his buddy and they haven't been seen. they have tried to support the

houthi rebels despite the condemnation about the continued threat of the shipping area in the southern red sea. >> this is a story that a lot of people didn't have on their radar any thanks for the reporting. courtney kube. quick break for us. we'll be right back. for us we'll be right back.

as this year's presidential election rolls on and the disgraced ex-president has continued to claim fraud with zero evidence, of course, the

election officials in prince william county, virginia have found votes shorting president biden by 1,648 votes. figure has come to light as part of a criminal case where that county's former registrar was charged with corrupt conduct making a falls statement and the case has since been dropped. president biden ultimately won virginia by per than 450,000 votes, and the misreporting issues did not meet the 1% threshold to trigger a recount according to prince william county office. another break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. (♪♪) and you realize you're in love... steve? with a laundry detergent.

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thank you for spending part of your tuesday with us. we are grateful. "the beat with ari melber" begins right now. hi, ari. >> hi, ali. >> i'm ari melber with james carville who you see on the screen and the 2024 elections have begun and james, we'll get your breakdown of iowa and by the end of your time tonight i'll take you down memory lane in new hampshire. so james is stag