your family -- came back hitler, you have talked about that. you have the closest, i think, and the american jewish candidate that had come to the presidency, or at least a nomination. and we were in israel, in a kibbutz, in your youth. this has just been a onetime, i think, for international american jews. what do you think and feel jew watching all this play out in the last 100 days? >> chris, what i would hope that, no matter what my religious background is, i would respond accordingly. if this is taking place in italy on and, i would feel the same way. but i have to tell, you haven't spent months in israel, as i did, knowing the history of antisemitism and the holocaust, for me to see a right-wing israeli government create this kind of misery in gaza is

extraordinarily upsetting. no question about that. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you for your time tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is another -- good evening, alex, we are back in the same. adam i like it. adam -- thank you for doing so, and an important conversation. and thanks to you at home for joining me this evening. the last time that republicans had a contested presidential primary was the year 2016. and it sounds sort of impossible to imagine now, the party with kind of divided on trump's victory, i the way to the convention. for when you say that number clearly in senator ted cruz went to the podium in a primetime speaking slot, that. and refused to mention trump's name during his convention speech. and, borio boy, did people notice. >> if you love our country, and

they have your children as much as i know that you, to stand and end vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who tries to defend our freedom. god bless each and every one of you and god bless the united states of america. >> so to that moment, the four though she has deafening booze, ted cruz and donald trump had been going at each other from months. relations between these two men were not good. trump regular went after ted cruz's family during the primaries. he willingly and baselessly had used a chemist cruises five have planned well on the candidates agitation. even started cruises while, because, for her appearance. and senator ted cruz was quite obviously fierce over.

>> that does not look down. women stoneman skedaddled. i think we often. but, you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. donald, you are sniffling coward, and we've had that hell -- >> -- some amount of courage to speak out about him, to maybe even stand up to him, or at least his candidacy. senator marco rubio's run against trump in 2016, and this is what marco rubio had to say. >> that trump is a con artist. >> guys, we have a common harvest as a front runner in the republican party. >> a con artist is about to take away the republican party and the conservative movement. we come out of the conservative movement to be taken over by a con artist. you have friends who are thinking about -- plans to not let friends vote for candidates. >> that was the tenor of things the last time there publicans

had a contested primary. and when a difference eight years makes. senator marco rubio, who spent a fair part of 2016 kind of a trump a con artist, adds this we can do a style trump for a president despite the fact that trump has now actually in the bed proven to be a kind of just a federal judge. in september judge ruled that -- guilty of defense and defending insurance companies, that he has been gaming the system. and the judge is right now, as we speak, deliberating how much more me, learns and millions of directors, donald trump must pay factor swimming. but marcus rubio has not said anything about that this time around. , ted cruz, who made several ways back in 2016, coming out donald trump's pr style women, urging republicans to vote their conscience last night ted

cruz also endorsed -- did sign the very same week that mr. trump is sitting in a new york court room having the defense similarly defamation of women storm enough to take donald trump to court, that the several courses down from sexually abused. but senator cruz had nothing to say about strong women or consciences this week. lamar judgments republicans once made auto trump, apparently, denominator anymore. the fact that donald trump and -- 12 days ago, ted cruz, he should not even exist. i could not have -- destroy him in 2016 if you think about it. but then i watch him live. even that did not matter to ted cruz. what we are seeing right now is the near complete capitulation of the republican party to donald trump. in addition to the senators i just mentioned, trump has

locked up 23 other endorsements from senate republicans, probably the group of republicans most at least inclined to be resistant to his lawlessness. nikki haley money and ron desantis, for their part, have a collective zero senate endorsements between them. when the house, trump says endorsement from more than 100 members amanda seducing served in the house has five. nikki haley has one. it's not just elected republicans, though. it is the minute republican to help get them elected. i have them also filling in on. according to that website top news puck news -- the record, and that forgiveness will get there. the threats have apparently been effective. robert bigelow, the hotelier and aerospace entrepreneur who previously gave $20 million to

desantis's super pac has recently signaled to trump allies that he is now supporting donald trump for president. ed mcmahon, a trump fund-raiser who served in trump's administration, described the tire way in -- a tidal wave -- of republican donors rushing to make a, and secure their place among trump's lies. i've never had the experience of reaching out in such large numbers to do a maricopa and say, how can i support the president? this is what is happening right now inside the republican party. then the reality is that this junction the only person meaningfully standing between donald trump and the republican combination nomination is -- donald trump has already begun ramping up his attacks on, off the racist birther playbook that exam president a bomb and, similarly, referring to nikki haley, i mean, as if to prove

that, i guess, she somehow doesn't belong here. and in response, oh, governor haley cannot even mastered the kind of responses that marco rubio and ted cruz managed against donald trump just eight years ago. >> how do you feel about your party's front-runner being held liable for sexual abuse? >> first of all, i have not paid attention to his cases. and i'm not a lawyer. all i know is that he is innocent until proven guilty, and when he's proven guilty and he sitting in a courtroom, that is exactly what i'm talking about. you've got investigations on trump and biden. >> a lot of people -- forgive me -- by the lot of people in the republican party blow it off and say that it somehow a chant -- >> some of the cases have -- >> -- >> this one, i haven't looked at. that look, if he is found guilty, he --

to do what he is supposed. and >> joey and mark -- staff evacuated that -- donald trump's washington and the presidents admission. also with me djibouti jamelle bouie -- and what about trump's ability to stay out of jail cell? >> yeah, here is that it's capitulate. humans have time to hear nikki just -- capitulation implies that she actually was in a fight to begin with against our trump and it's been such a passive resistance to him to begin with and then two year that. i mean, you can diagram that answer as far as i -- detaches read her the headline.

we found liable of sexual start. and it's basically -- didn't see the tweet. that's sort of a lead over mission of i didn't see the tweet. look, nikki haley is not going to put up against five based on what we saw just in that clip. and it does look like we are sort of in the middle white flag week, which is, it's how much out there is any kind of campaign resistance -- and i still think nikki haley and somewhat well positioned in new hampshire, it was not going to look anything like we start in 2016, or, really, in and had a contested campaign. and you are worried, i think that is -- that ted cruz speech to see it again it was like, wow, that's where the fight looks like and of course take appreciative now to sort of do it allegheny years later. it's frankly really depressing to watch, and we've seen it 1 million different ways. i guess the sort of seen plaid and what could be in the last weeks of potential --

republican party, really puts a new bow on it and this is sort of the future that the republicans continue to chance for themselves. >> it seems clear, jamelle, that incentive structure is just, if you will. on the one hand, there is the incentive of, i guess, personal material, which explains the donors that are flocking to the president and then added timeframe before they get -- from snow trump schoolcraft. and political annihilation. right? that's the suggestion from trump. and i think one of the most example of this is the house freedom caucus chair bob good interest on desantis. you know faces a primary challenger and the trump team explicitly threatening him. i think chris less of your, that lets you know trump -- bad good won't be electable when we get done with. tim it's everything short of the horse said in the bad, jamelle.

but it tells you had a modern-day republican party is run. >>. genesis has been that this has basically been baked into the cake ever since february 2021, that when the republican majority -- not majority -- republicans in the senate, chose not to remove trump, or at least prevent him from running for office again and -- i did not get the requisite votes that kind of guaranteed what we are seeing now, that that was the one opportunity to actually knock him out of the process. but since that didn't happen, it was actually -- ability to regain the statute, he had. when i find so strange about here is that trump does have this video and -- similarly, bob good is -- i think trump could add, and his assets could make life very

difficult for bob good and -- republican primary. a man of the features of trump's main on the republican party is he's actually i'm electrode drag in competitive january elections. the candidates who tied themselves very closely to trump in a competitive race to do very well. and so, it's tragic that you have republican politicians who, presumably, cabin interactions. i'm willing to disentangle themselves from a guy who, other than 2016 -- right, other than the surprise win in 2016 has not been particularly successful for the republican party. >> mark, jamele it raises a really fair point, and actually, we were thinking about this as we were talking about the segment. donald trump has some big else on the board, kari lake, blake masters, mastriano, mehmet oz, herschel walker. in terms of actually getting

people into office he is not that successful which i think begs the second question which is why -- is it just the personal threats that are so resonate with elected republicans, the idea that their house is going to be -- that they're gonna be the victim of a swatting attack, just a headache of going up against trump, if not the actual, you know, primary challenge or -- ? >> i that's the funny thing about the personal safety. i do think -- these are statewide swing east states. they are not going to -- they are not living in swing districts. they are not going to lose close -- these are not biden districts, and that's true pretty much across the board. their biggest worry is being primaried. and again, that's the explicit threat they're making against bob good here, referred to with

the -- it's terrifying. it's terrifying they have this kind of power, it's a shakedown situation. we've seen it over and over again. and i think that's going to be the reality in the party. and i think you're going to have to find candidates who occasionally are not so terrified of losing and getting on the wrong side of donald trump in the base of the party. >> you know, jamele, when you talk about it was sort of a foregone conclusion that the gop would be in this position after january 2021, the one thing that is truly develop that might have changed that is trump's potential criminal exposure. i mean, there is an unknown future for this individual as it concerns the justice system, which is anything, maybe a cause for republicans to be just a little bit hesitant about putting all of their chips on a man who could be in the process of a federal appeals process for criminal convictions. i mean, there are 91 felony counts against him, jamele. does that lack of hesitancy

surprise you at all? >> it doesn't surprise me, again, because i think that people vie for national leadership for the republican party to seem to just be unwilling to make the decisive -- there is room, their space, theoretically, to make this case against trump on this basis, that he is criminally liable, that he may very well be convicted of serious crimes between now and november, and has also been an electoral loser, get rid of him and choose someone else. but you will note that neither nikki haley nor ron desantis seen at all capable of making that argument. and not only can they make a pragmatic argument against trump, i mean, desantis tried running to his political right, which is very odd to me, but if you listen to the rhetoric and what they're saying in these debates and everything, they don't even really have a sense

-- republican base in terms of what people want to hear beyond -- your deficit fearmongering. and it's like, what? >> [laughter] >> donald trump notably was, like, i'm not -- i don't care about that stuff. that doesn't matter to me. and i feel like that's the acute to follow, you follow that queue, try to make this pragmatic case, try to get it that way. but i can't even seem to do that. it's very -- i mean i've been perfectly honest with you, it's very odd and strange to watch. >> that is a understatement of the season. mark leibovich, jamelle bouie, and you both guys four times tonight. >> thanks, alex. we have a lot more to get to tonight, like donald trump doing his best to disrupt court

proceedings today, which is the strategy, maybe? and senator elizabeth warren on an issue that democrats would like to be front of mind this november. she joins me live, coming up next ing up next ♪3, 4♪ ♪ ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ >> woman: what's my safelite story? i'm a photographer. and when i'm driving, i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, it had to be fixed right. i scheduled with safelite autoglass. their experts replaced my windshield and recalibrated my car's advanced safety system. ♪ acoustic rock music ♪ >> woman: safelite is the one i trust. they focus on safety so i can focus on this view. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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♪ ♪ a few days before the iowa caucuses, donald trump was asked about his position on abortion. >> for 54 years, they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did it, and i'm proud to have done it. now, i happen to be for the exceptions, like ronald reagan, with the life of the mother, rape, incest. you have to win elections. >> apparently trump is a support of the supreme court's decision to end roe v. wade, but also a critic of abortion

restrictions that could cost republicans election winds. >> if you look at it,, at ron desantis, his poll numbers have gone down to a level that he's going to be out of the race very soon. it happened to coincide with that, because a lot of people say, you, know if you top five or six weeks, a lot of women don't know they're pregnant and five or six weeks. >> trump's incoherent messaging on abortion actually seems possibly to be working in his favor. on monday, in but iowa, he was able to get 55% of the vote who of those who favor a national abortion ban, and 44% of the vote of those who oppose it. now, of course, the strategy has its limits. at some point, donald trump will likely face a real question about where exactly he stands on the issue and whether he can do is what is happening to women all over this country. to that and, democrats in the senate today held a briefing on the state of abortion rights, where victims described the

painful consequences of republican restrictions on abortion. >> a routine ultrasound showed devastating news. [crying] -- the brain and skull had not formed and i remember looking at the ultrasound screen incomplete disbelief. i can't believe i need another abortion, i thought. we have to flee the state. because of texas's new laws, we are afraid to use our credit card or tell people where we were going. it was absolutely humiliating. and i felt physically and emotionally broken. >> joining me now is senator elizabeth warren, a democrat that was a part of the senate abortion briefing today. senator, great to see you today, thanks for making the time. i find the stories from these women absolutely ranching.

i wonder how you think they may be changing what we think of as a partisan landscape when it comes to reproductive freedom. >> i think what has happened in the past 18 months since an extremist supreme court overturned roe versus wade as being like getting smacked in the face day after day after day after day after day. back when roe was in place, sure, a lot of efforts to chip away at it. but people thought of abortion rights as something we were guaranteed. they had been there for nearly half a century, the supreme court had spoken, that is what america wanted and that's what america had. and then donald trump manages to get an extremist supreme court in place. they overturn roe and we watched day after day as another aspect unfolds. a ten year old who needs an abortion and can't get it in

her state. a mother who desperately wants a baby but understands that this fetus in her is badly deformed and she needs an abortion. another mother whose life is at risk and doctors stand beside her saying, is she close enough to death for us to give her an abortion under local laws? so it's watching the reality unfold piece at a time, piece at a time, piece at a time. and it's watching it unfold with a neighbor with a sister with a cousin with a friend so that it's spread across america. and we actually come to see what it means to live in donald trump's america, where politicians decide who gets access to abortion rather than

doctors and patients. >> you know, i think it's remarkable that you call it donald trump's america, because it is in fact the supreme court that he shaped that overturned roe v. wade. but donald trump has somehow managed to skate on both sides of the issue here by being very unclear as to be indecipherable in his position on abortion. >> no, no. >> my question for you is -- i mean, is he going to get asked the tough question here? it's unclear if he's -- if there are gonna be debates in the general election season. and that's fair. >> alex, we don't need to ask him this question. i think that is absolutely the wrong way to frame this. he probably put this supreme court in place. he proudly screen them for their position on abortion. and he is responsible for the state of abortion in this country right now. he is responsible for the fact

that 20 states make it virtually impossible for someone who needs an abortion to get access. he is responsible for the fact that now these courts may take away mifepristone, for example, and undermine access to abortion in california, massachusetts, washington state, oregon, and all of the places that have protected abortion. donald trump is responsible. i don't need a question to him. i don't need a debate from him. i don't need a clear statement from him. the facts are the facts. he is responsible, and abortion will be on the ballot in 2024. >> and i hear you on that. i'm just going off the fact that 44% of caucus goers who do not support a federal abortion ban supported donald trump. he won on that issue. so clearly, the facts are the facts. but somehow, they're not being

communicated to certain sections of the american electorate. >> let's remember, those caucusgoers are republican caucus goers who showed up in iowa in the middle of freezing weather to say no matter what i'm going to get there, and a big hunk of them said i'm going to support donald trump no matter what. i do not think this means he can pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of america, of the people who are out on the streets marching over abortion, of the people who showed up in kansas and the people who showed up in michigan, the people who said you give us a chance to vote on abortion, and we will make certain that access to abortion is protected. so i'm not worried. donald trump is responsible. and i believe regardless of what hard-core republicans are going to do, i believe the rest of america is going to hold him responsible, and it's going to be one of many reasons that donald trump is going to lose in november.

>> are you confident that if the republicans gain the senate, it's not exactly a federal map in 2024, that they are not going to do donald trump's bidding or the bidding of hard-core anti choice conservatives should they regain control of the upper chamber? >> oh, i think that if the republicans had the house, the senate, and the white house, and please know, but if that happened i don't think there's any doubt. they're going for a nationwide abortion ban. they made that clear. mitch mcconnell stood up and said as much. and many of them say that part, the quiet part out loud. and they understand it is unpopular. so they don't want to be too overt about it. but they're looking for a nationwide abortion ban. and keep in mind the other half. so long as we don't make roe v. wade the law of the land, these courts can continue to

undermine access to abortion everywhere in the country. this decision that came out of a court down in texas that may take mifepristone off the market, keep in mind, a place like massachusetts, about 50% of abortions in massachusetts are medication abortions, they use mifepristone. and what they're trying to do is say that would not be available and not just the 20 states that banned abortion, it would not be available anywhere in the united states. so the attacks on abortion rights that the republicans are putting forward is both legislative, both at the state and federal level, and it's at the courts. in other words, wherever you are in america, if you care about abortion rights, if you care about protecting the right of people to have access to

abortion, understand this. donald trump and the republicans are coming for you. and your chance to beat that back comes in november 2024, when you vote down not just trump, but every other republican on the ballot. >> senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, thank you for your time tonight. >> you bet. we have a lot more this evening, including the sale of a prestigious newspaper to a right-wing media mogul and the implications of that for american democracy. and after that, and donald trump's rage was on display for a new york jury today. we will recap what you might call the strategy there, coming up next. omin up next.

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york courtroom,former magazine writ ejean carroll took the witness stand for the first time in her second defamation lawsuit against donald trump. i'm here because donald trump assaulted me, ms. carroll said, and when i wrote about it, he said it never happened. he lied and he shattered my reputati. in this very courtroom in may, a jury found i had indeed been sexually assaulted by donald trump. and this from roberta kaplan, ms. carroll's lawyer.

ms. carroll, has he continue to lie about you? >> carroll, yes he continues to lie, he lied last month, he lied on sunday, he lied yesterday. and i'm here to get my reputation back and to stop him from telling lies about me. donald trump was also in the oom today, oddly making comments jurors could hear, sang was all acorn job. the commentary got to a point where the judge threatened to throw trump out of the courtroom altogether. judge kaplan, mr. trump, i hope i don't have to consider excluding you from the trial or at least the presence. understand your probably very eager for me to do that. mr. trump, i would love it. caplan, i know you would. you just can't control yourself in these circumstances. trump's strategy here is debatable and what is at stake is considerable. joining me now is chuck rosenberg, msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney and former fbi official. chuck, thanks for being here. we know that ms. carroll is

asking for $10 million in damages plus punitive damages. it's unclear what the jury is going to decide. but i wonder how you think the outbursts here factor into the jury's process and indeed the judges threshold for taking trump out of his courtroom. >> great questions, alex. at least the outburst so far have not been the presence of the jurors. the jury has been out of the courtroom when those exchanges took place. although they may have heard some of the things he said and that ms. carroll's attorneys complain about. but the outburst were in front of the judge. so how does it affect the judge? courtrooms, federal courtrooms in particular, are serious places. they are governed by rules and procedures. and judges are used to having their orders abided. so this may help mr. trump politically. it may help them in some world outside of the courtroom. but it's inconceivable, alex,

that it helped them inside the courtroom. >> can i ask though, because there seems to be a tacit understanding on the part of the judge that trump would love to be kicked out of the courtroom, certainly for political optics, this system is rigged against me, they're taking me out of the courtroom. but i wonder if you think there's any -- i hesitate to use the word strategy, but i'll use it, strategy on the part of trump to sort of be kicked out so you can use that in appeal? would that be in anyway meaningful? >> there's a big difference between a strategy and a successful strategy. >> [laughter] true. >> so alex, maybe it's his strategy, and his goal is to try and foul the record so that on appeal he has something to argue. but two things you ought to know. one is that judges control their courtrooms carefully because it is governed by rule and procedure, judges kara lot about that, and rightfully so. the second thing is that courts of appeal on review give trial

court judge's enormous discretion to do exactly, that two controller courtrooms. appellate courts understand that they are only seeing black white record, word on paper. but what the trial judge is watching and seeing everything. so trial judges have enormous discretion. and appellate courts have said that over and over, to control their courtroom. so if this is mr. trump's strategy to foul the record, it's a bad one, it's not going to work, alex. >> yeah, and i wonder how you think that behavior is going to potentially influence judge arthur engoron, who is presiding over trump's case with the new york a.g. laetitia james. that's a bench trial, so the judge is the only person to decide. and trump is antagonized judge engoron in a fairly remarkable fashion. >> he has. and look, a judge has an absolute obligation to both parties to be fair and thoughtful. and that can be hard when you have a litigant in front of you,

a defendant in mr. trump's case, that just sort of tries at every opportunity to get under your skin. i don't know judge engoron. i imagine he's like all the judges in front of whom i practiced, alex. and he's going to try very hard to keep it down the middle. that's his job. that's what he has to do. so what mr. trump is doing by acting out, again, maybe a valuable political strategy, it may play to some of his fans. it is not going to help him in court. it's not going to help him with the judges. and it's not going to help him if he continues to do this in front of a jury. it is not going to work. >> it could be a very expensive january. chuck rosenberg, thank you again for your wisdom, chuck, appreciate it. >> my pleasure. still ahead tonight, what would you do with $100 million? one conservative media executive who famously disdains print media just use that sum of cash to buy a newspaper, a really important newspaper, and that could mean some big changes. that's next.

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conglomerate, sinclair broadcast group gave all of their anchors the same script, and told them all to work it into the broadcast. the script, largely, followed a sanitized version of trump's rhetoric about the, quote unquote, fake news media. the script is what is known at sinclair as a must run. meaning, stations must errant, no ifs, ands, orbits. it meant, a lot of people heard the script. sinclair owns around 200 local tv stations across the country, making sinclair one of the nation's largest broadcasters with, millions of viewers. because these stations are local, people trust them. these are the folks of people turn to for the weather, and traffic updates, and, also, conservative talking points. in addition to the must run segment that sinclair had them read, they also had must run pre-taped packages, featuring political analysis of former trump staffer, boris epshteyn,

as well as a historical conservative segments, like this one. how can americans, especially blacks and latinos in america, support hillary clinton? >> a surprising message, coming from a black pastor. evangelical bishop, aubry shines, spreading a message of why he believes that hillary clinton's democratic party is not good for black americans. >> the party that gave this country slavery. >> this week, sinclair's executive chairman, david smith, bought one of the most important newspapers in the country, the baltimore sun. if you are unfamiliar with their work, the baltimore sun won a pulitzer prize in 2020, specifically, on the strength of their local reporting. in a tense meeting with the staff of the baltimore sun this week, its new owner, david smith, reportedly, insulted the quality of the papers journalism. smith reported, he has his own vision for the paper and, surprising no one, thinks it should mimic one of his

sinclair television stations. baltimore's fox 45. that station, known for segments like city in crisis, highlighting crime, and dysfunction. as former baltimore sun media critic describes it, fox 45 coverage fits into a larger pattern of, this is what happens when you let democrats run your city, it goes to hell. to quote from a sinclair must run script, unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias, and agenda, to control exactly what people think. that is extremely dangerous steward among chrissy. brian stelter joins me to discuss the erosion of the fourth a state, and the rise of right-wing disinformation, next. ation, next for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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only at el pollo loco. get over here kids. new double pollo fit bowls. time for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now. this morning, the baltimore (♪♪) (♪♪) the new festive family meal. starting at $24. now celebrating at el pollo loco. sun guild, the union representing the paper staff

read a statement saying, during yesterday's meeting, the owner, david smith, shared his vision for the paper. he admitted, he has rarely read. the editorial direction he described focused on clicks, rather than journalistic value, concerning many of our members. that nearly three-hour meeting between the sun staff, and its new owner, david smith, the executive chairman of sinclair broadcast group, was described as tense. mr. smith, who bought the paper last week, at one point, told reporters to, go make me some money. when asked about job security, smith said, not so reassuringly, everyone has a job today. david smith is known, not only for his right-wing broadcasting network, sinclair, but his support of conservative causes, and groups, including project veritas, turning point usa, and moms for liberty. as the new owner of a storied newspaper, smith has claimed, print media has no credibility, and is so left wing as to be meaningless dribble.

joining me now, brian stelter, special correspondent for vanity fair. author of network of lies, the epic saga of fox news, donald trump, and the battle for american democracy. and, a native marylander who's been running about sinclair for decades. brian, thank you for being here. you know better than most, when conservatives takeover media organizations, they tend to make changes. what are your expectations for a paper that is essential as the baltimore sun? >> i grew up reading the sun. often, when i was in annapolis, or baltimore, the only other reporter there was from the baltimore sun. although the paper has been shrinking for years, like most printed newspapers across the country, it is still the default. the go-to media outlet for a major american city. what happens to it now, alex? i fear this is the end of the sun as a nonpartisan, widely trusted, outlet.

there will need to be alternatives to puppets police. when these right-wing backers of media talk, they talk in code. when they say fair, what they mean is, we think the presses too liberal. when they say balanced, what they say is we want the media to advance our political agenda, but cloak it in an all-side screams to balance. you know what i mean? it's coated language that we hear the new owner of the sun start to use. >> i wonder of the psychological profile of someone who fun something like project veritas, alleging sting operations of media groups, who says that print journalism has no credibility, and then spends $100 million to buy the sun, and some other smaller papers. is that just the execution of a conservative agenda? to bring the fourth of state to heal? or is this the weird, ego maniacal fixation that conservatives, like donald trump, have with the fourth of

state? >> it's trump attacked-ing the media. carrying a lot about what time magazine, nbc media say about him. my understanding at the sun, and around maryland politics, is that david smith's been trying to buy the sun for quite some time. he sits at home, in his mansion, in suburban baltimore, and watches what's happening in the city, and thinks he can make a difference. let's be clear, making a difference, he means, by a right-wing agenda, by buying up the only newap town. this is a pattern, alex, as you said, of old school newspapers, and outlets, becoming zombies. they are taken over by these right-wing virus, they become shelves of their former selves, and they become political machines. this will keep happening in print fades away, and attention, and ad dollars, moved to digital. there is something we can all do about it, we can support the alternative. >> i want to get to that, but i think it is important to note how the articulated fixation on, crime and, police is, really,

an important part of this ecosystem that, in turn, fuels the broader right-wing agenda. can you talk more about that given your experience with fox news where they love to talk about crime, and backing the blue? >> 100%. i feel like i've been studying this for years, because you can see attention on a city like baltimore, only when there is unrest, as we saw a decade ago with freddy gray. only when there is a surgeon cry. you know what happened in baltimore in 2023? dramatic reductions and murder rate. you won't hear about that on fox, or cross right-wing talk radio. you only hear these headlines when they are terrifying, if they're used to admit and agenda. unfortunately, i think it is a force to be reckoned with in this republican primary, but also the 2024 election. it's like a spigot that's always turned down, it's pumping, full blast, all day, no matter what's happening in the trans, or the data. >> you wonder how immigration gets to be the number one topic, and number one voting issue in

a republican primary. this is a huge part of how that happens. what is the newspaper going to do? >> what is the alternative. the baltimore banner is a start up in baltimore that's breaking news about the sun being taken over. that's what viewers can do. they can support local, grassroots news. nonprofits, start-ups, they can create their own. this is the solution to this problem that plagues the media, alex. >> by a local newspaper, that is not a conservative mouthpiece, to support your local journalism. brian stelter, author of network of lies, it is great to talk to you. someone so deeply entrenched in this essential topic. thank you, brian. >> thank you. >> that is our show for this evening, now it is time for the last word with my friend, lawrence o'donnell. iendgood evening, alex. i missed you on the panel with us on iowa caucus night, because i wanted to do a few minutes on how your father invented the iowa caucus. i want ea