you know, we'd reported before christmas that trump had been asking similar things about nikki haley. it is hard to imagine now with the way he is attacking her that she'd be under consideration. trump's vp seems to be on his radar, and he's been asking people questions, like, what do you think of nikki? according to the nbc news report, what do you think of stefanik? >> trump in the past has done an abrupt 180 about people when they start praising him. we shouldn't rule out nikki haley, i guess, if suddenly haley were to drop out of the race and endorse trump, she could be back in the mix. meredith mcgraw, thank you. we appreciate it. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. she can't negotiate. she's a lousy negotiator. other than that, she's wonderful, a wonderful person. but if she wins, biden wins.

that's why they're sending all these democrats in to run. it's crazy. >> it is not personal for me. i have no -- you know, people want me to hate trump or love trump. that's not what it is. i just tell it on policy. i'm not going to talk about him personally. i don't care about that. i think politics is too personal, and i think that's why people are so frustrated right now. >> donald trump and nikki haley with different approaches about talking about the other. both are making their pitch to voters in new hampshire, while ron desantis has his sights on haley's home state. we'll have more from the campaign trail straight ahead. plus, the latest on the foreign aid package that republicans have tied to border security. we'll go through yesterday's meeting at the white house between president biden and speaker mike johnson. also ahead, another concerning escalation in the middle east as pakistan launches a retaliatory strike inside

iran. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, january 18th. willie, we have a lot going on in politics and in foreign policy. why don't we start in court where things got spicy yesterday? >> donald trump a busy man, on the campaign trail, in new hampshire and in a courtroom on the second day of the defamation damages trial he faces involving writer e. jean carroll. the judge threatened to throw former president donald trump out of court for talking and being disruptive while carroll was testifying on the stand. judge kaplan also scolded trump attorney alina habba where she requested for the third time the trial be adjourned today so trump could attend his mother-in-law's funeral in florida. the judge denied it again, telling her to sit down. habba responded, she does not like being spoken to in that way by the judge on the stand. e. jean carroll testified about the sexual abuse she says she

suffered at the hands of donald trump, and how speaking about it in 2019 ruined her reputation and damaged her career. carroll said after then president trump denied the allegations and called her a liar, she began to receive hundreds of messages a day echoing incluing death threats. carroll's attorney showed social media posts trump made just yesterday attacking carroll and the court. carroll and her attorneys are seeking $10 million in tajs. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin and justice department reporter for "the new york times," katie benner. good morning to you both. lisa, good to have you back with us, as you seem to be every morning, talking about another bizarre day in court. donald trump seems to be trying to instigate a fight with the judge so he can later say he was biased against him or whatever

he'll say for his own polities. >> yesterday was, as mika said, spicy. as someone who experienced it, i have a lot of heartburn. in the course of the day, trump's defense team moved for a mistrial, asked for the judge to be recused, and tried to bring out in the cross-examination of e. jean carroll an example of unlawful things she'd done. they accused her of spoiling evidence in the case, cut off by judge kaplan. they even tried to insinuate she has an unlicensed gun and that it is illegal to possess an unlicensed gun in the state of new york. why did that even come up? e. jean carroll has testified that she sleeps with that gun beside her bed for self-protection. because in the wake of these online threats coming from people who have names like sports justice, she doesn't know where the threat is going to come from and, therefore, fears for her physical safety. >> what about this back and forth between the judge, judge kaplan, and trump's team?

judge kaplan said, you can't do that in a courtroom. you think the rules don't pply to you, former president trump, but you can't be interrupting and doing the things you're doing. where does that lead if trump keeps doing? he's doing it intentionally to say the judge is biased against me. >> he is doing it intentionally. one of the things that wasn't picked up in some of the reporting was when kaplan said to him before the recess, "you just can't help yourself under the circumstances, can you?" trump walked out, and there was a lot of cross-talk. it was difficult to hear. apparently, according to ""the associated press"" and others, he said, "nor can you" or "you can't equal." he thinks he is dealing with an equal. alina habba does, too, saying she doesn't like to be spoken to like that. kaplan hasn't made a specific threat.

he said, "i can eject you from the courtroom." trump doesn't know if he'll bar him from testifying, hold him in contempt, or what. there are measures kaplan can take, and the fact that he hasn't been clear is what is keeping trump as much in line as he has been, even though his conduct is unbecoming of any person in the courtroom. >> mika, the court reporter's transcript shows this is what donald trump says. quote, mr. trump, i hope i don't have to exclude you from the trial. i'm sure you're eager for me to do it. trump said, quote, i'd love it. saying out loud what he is trying to do here. >> katie benner, to me,i ask, does he care about the trial or does he just want to make trouble, to continue to defame e. jean carroll? he continued to defame her after

losing a case to this woman. are the tactics to show up, to drum up the base? again, we've seen data that shows these legal actions against donald trump, whether they be indictments or civil cases, seem to tighten support for him. >> you know, i think it is hard to be in trump's head, but you're right, data shows two things. first, to your point that a lot of support coming out of the woodwork when he goes into the courtroom. he can spin these things. he can kind of create outcomes. and when that doesn't work, he can just say whatever it is he wants about the procedures, whether or not there's truth there. you're right, it helps his supporters. this is a very personal battle for him, and it is intimidating to e. jean carroll for him to be there. she talked a lot about the threats she received from the moment she first talked about the alleged assault, which has been ruled by another court to have happened. so those threats, i think, we cannot underestimate, and we

can't look away from. not only did e. jean carroll testify about them clearly, these are the kinds of threats that members of the republican party, house members, members of the senate also get when they defy donald trump. they don't have the overtones of gender bias and discrimination and horrible sexism, but the threats are real and they're really, really violent. when she talks about the way she feels, this is how anybody who defies donald trump feels. it really helps to understand why he is able to garner the kind of public support he has from people, even who privately talk about how much they think he should not be president again. >> i mean, mitt romney yesterday asked by a cnn reporter what he thought about the iowa results, and he said, "well, i don't understand the republican party. i don't understand my party. they're supporting a guy who raped a woman." of course, that's what the judge

said. ask mitt romney about the iowa caucus entrance polls showing that a majority of gop caucusgoers didn't believe that joe biden was elected legitimately. mitt said, i think people are out of touch with reality and will accept anything trump tells them. you had a jury that said donald trump rap ed a woman, and that doesn't seem to be moving the needle. there's a lot of things about today's electorate i have a hard time understanding. >> my cousin, matthew, went to a trump event in new hampshire and wrote me this long email about how gobsmacking it was. no matter what trump said, it seemed the audience would just take it completely at face value, no matter how ridiculous, no matter how obvious a lie it was. it was like a religious event. it was like a cult event. they were loving everything he was saying. most of it completely untrue, out of whack, crazy talk. >> willie, again, you have a

judge that has said what donald trump did to e. jean carroll, by any definition, is rape. you have him guilty in another manhattan case of doing what people have always sort of whispered about him doing over the past 40 years. that is committing fraud against banks, lying about how much money he has, being fraudulent and getting loans. again, the majority of caucusgoers, they don't care. again, that's the republican party. i will say, we have polls out that show this morning that only 20% of americans say they'd still support donald trump. all americans, if he was, in fact, convicted. again, we're looking at the republican party, which has gone off the cliff for donald trump. in iowa's case, we're talking about 14% of the party.

i have to say one other thing, one other question -- there are a lot of questions that abound right now -- would you vote for donald trump if convicted of a felony? yes, 20 no, 58%. that's nearly 6 out of 10 voters, including almost a third of republican voters. of course, 55% of independent voters. again, all of these polls that are out right now, i'm sorry, just doesn't matter. there's actually a head-to-head that shows biden ahead of donald trump. it's just so early, though. one other thing, willie, i'm curious about, do we have any answer on what's on donald trump's -- like, donald trump has -- his hands are bleeding. looks like he has a -- >> is that magic marker? >> is it magic marker? it looks like he has a sore on his index finger there. i don't know. maybe it is magic marker. i don't know. >> it looks like a cut.

that's blood, isn't it? i don't want to speculate. i don't know. was there anything that happened inside the courtroom yesterday, lisa? >> there was. you know, there was a point in time during the day where trump very frustrated with judge kaplan banged his hands down on the table. i doubt that blisters or marks we're seeing there come from that, but could they be exacerbated by that? perhaps. >> like a toddler having a tantrum perhaps and causing bleeding to his hand. >> yeah. >> let's remind our viewers again, donald trump already has been found liable of sexual assault. we're in the penalty phase now. a jury decided that. that's the matter that the court has settled. now, we're talking about money here. that's probably why you see so many people, as joe rightly points out, saying, i'm not voting for a guy convicted of all this stuff. yes, he won 56,000 votes, joe, in a country of 330 million people. 56,000 voters in iowa. just cleared 5% of republicans.

14% of republicans stepped out to vote the other night. so it is -- yes, he won big, but a little perspective is important here. >> well, again, it's 14%. i mean, when i used to run, i realized that in my district, republicans at the time made up maybe 40% of the electorate. but in the primary, only one-third of that 40% were going to vote in a primary. so while everybody else was waving at state fairs, i was knocking on the doors of the 33% of the 40%. here, we have 14% of maybe the 35% of iowa republicans there. again, relatively small numbers. that's not to say that the polls we see nationwide aren't deeply disturbing about republicans being fine with a man who a judge has declared raped a woman and is guilty already of fraud.

he's been found liable of fraud. we could go down the list. of course, trials on him stealing nuclear secrets which the judge in south florida, who humiliated herself last year, once again trying to slow roll that case. i'm not so sure he'll be so lucky, though, in washington. katie, i wanted to go back to you because what we're talking about -- while we're talking about court cases, i think one of the most fascinating cases regarding presidential elections, the most, i think the most fascinating since the gore/bush case in 2000, has been to do with states like colorado and maine trying to keep donald trump off the ballot. in maine, the court spoke. what did they say? >> so in maine, they said, "we don't want to rule on this today because in just under a month, the supreme court is going to begin hearing arguments on essentially the same topic for the state of colorado," which

has already decided, much like maine, that donald trump should not be on the ballot. so it really applies -- i don't think it applies more pressure on the supreme court, but it underscores how important this hearing is going to be. there are other states, of course, still deciding whether or not trump should be on the ballot. i think it is february 8th that the court will hear argumentarg. i suspect they'll want to rule quickly so there's not chaos on ballots across the country, as nobody knows whether or not donald trump should be on them. that will have a big impact, not just on whether or not donald trump is on the ballot, but how they rule, it'll shape the narrative around whether or not donald trump deserves to be on the ballot. if they say, for example, he should remain on the ballot but they refuse to answer whether or not he participated in insurrection, that's a different thing from weighing in on whether or not he did do that. >> most legal observers hope

that it is not a 5-4 decision but a 9-0 one way or the other. we'll see. a lot of questions there. katty, let's look at the poll showing the overwhelming majority of americans say they'll not vote for trump if he is convicted. it suggests that everybody, you know, being john madden, basically, and being predictors of what is going o don't know what they're talking about. righ now in this ipsos/routers poll, 58% of americans say they won't vote for donald trump if he is convicted oa felony. i think the most important number there, at least for me, what i'm looking at, is 55% of independents say they will not vote for donald trump if he is a convicted felon. only 14% independents saying yes. >> yeah, and even if you look at the entrance polls in iowa that's kind of reflective of this, too, right, because 30% of people who caucused on monday

night in iowa also said they wouldn't vote for trump if he is convicted. which we just have to lack at -- look at the legal timetable. will jack smith get his trial in march? will it be wrapped up for a potential conviction in november? come november, what impact will it make? donald trump is opting for a different strategy than he was in a year ago. a year ago in may for e. jean carroll's trial, he didn't turn up. he's been seeing the polls all week. the graph steve kornacki has. these are the dates he is arrested for a crime or goes to a courthouse, the trial starts, and his approval ratings tick up. he now thinks, look, the more i'm in court, the more i misbehave in court, the more i get attention in court, that's going to help me. it might be a split thing. it might help him with the primary, but, actually, when it comes to people voting in the general election in november, all of what he did yesterday in

court, drawing attention to the fact that he's in a court proceeding and has been found liable, maybe that actually will end up to hurt him and those people will stick to these numbers. >> as the old song goes, willie, second verse, same as first. there's a reason republicans that actually have a brain have been worried about donald trump's impact on the general electorate since 2017. >> yeah. >> they're like, okay, the things that he is doing right now, in this case, going into courtrooms, making an ass of himself, trying to get a judge to throw him out of the courtroom, that helps him with 14% of voters in iowa, right? it hurts him with independents. it hurts him with suburban voters. it hurts him with swing voters. there's a reason donald trump has done the unthinkable, held on to a party while losing in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021,

2022, 2023. that's because he plays to the cheap seats in his own party. they're thrilled when he is in court for raping a woman, according to the judge, and the judge is going to have to throw him out because he's being so disruptive. like a toddler, we get reports from lisa that he is banging his hands on the table. maybe, we don't know, maybe it is magic marker. if it is oo maybe causing some more problems to his hands. >> disregulated. >> again, this plays really well for the 14%. who knows? maybe 44%, 45% in the general election. once again, they're setting themselves up for a loss. i'm trying to help them here. i'm trying to help republicans as i have for seven years. they're setting themselves up for another loss. as katty said, what works for the 14% hurts him, as we see in

this poll, with almost 60% of americans. >> what we saw yesterday, the tantrum in the courtroom, the reminders of everything that happened in this trial, reminder that donald trump has been found liable, as mitt romney said, for sexual assault, is what the biden campaign is counting on and urging patience. watch out this year plays out. see how the american public responds to a man in court, banging the table like a toddler during the defamation suit. this is the tip of the iceberg, jonathan lemire. we haven't gotten to the federal case, to georgia, to all the things he'll be occupied doing. as joe said, coming out of the courtrooms, posting social media, ranting about judges, having nothing to do with voters or people's lives or the future, only about him, and, again, playing to his narrow electorate of fans. >> that's been the biden camp's theory of the case throughout. it might not be one silver bullet.

they're not banking on a conviction, let's say, in one of these trials. but they think it'll be a piece after piece after piece, just this mosaic of chaos that trump is creating again. it'll be a reminder to the american public, we don't want to do that. trump has become background noise for us who live in this world each and every day, we're talking about him, showing him, playing the clips. most americans aren't paying attention yet. it might not be until the spring, summer, early fall, but when people start locking in on the campaign and start realizing that it is, indeed, trump versus biden again, because l positi polls still think it may not be the matchup, but they'll not want to do this with trump. the swing voters will be swayed by arguments about democracy, about abortion rights. they feel like those are the

people who are going to be turned off by what they're seeing from trump. once they start hearing trump each and every day again, and for some, maybe it won't be until the republican convention this coing summer, but they'll realize his rhetoric is more incendiary, and we don't want to do that. the democrats' focus is on making sure their own base turns out. that's the bigger concern. what trump is doing right now is helping him in the gop primaries, and it is only going to hurt in november. >> lisa, what happens in this defamation case? yesterday was a day when donald trump picked a fight with the judge, banged his hands on the table, talking loudly while e. jean carroll was testifying. the judge had to pull trump's attorney, alina habba, into a sidebar, explaining the rules, this is how it works. >> alina habba says she has 25 to 30 minutes left of cross-examination of e. jean

carroll. she'll go through a brief redirect examination, i think, by her own attorneys. then professor humphries social media expert, and she'll project how much money donald trump has cost e. jean carroll in relation to the trial. they won't want to write to an advice columnist dealing with the former president. they'll talk about the havoc he's wreaked on her life. >> lisa rubin. justice department reporter for "the new york times," katie benner. we'll see you both soon. thank you. coming up on "morning joe," when it comes to immigration, do house republicans want a border deal or a 2024 campaign issue? we'll get the latest from capitol hill as senate republicans issue a warning to their colleagues. and as we go to break, on

yesterday's show, we talked about the bizarre video shared by donald trump, claiming god chose him to be america's caretaker. the lincoln project hit back with a version of that spot, changing the premise to, god made a dictator. well, jimmy kimmel offered his own take last night, ending with an apology from the almighty. >> on june 14th, 1946, god looked down on this paradise and said, i need a caretaker. he said, i need someone willing to get up before dawn, fix this country, work all day, fight the marxist, eat supper, then go to the oval office and stay past midnight for the heads of state. god made trump. i need somebody with amples. strong enough to wrestle the deep state and gentle enough to deliver his own grandchild. somebody to ruffle the feathers,

go to the world forum, come home hungry. wait until the first lady is done with lunch, then tell the ladies to come back real soon. so god gave us trump. god said -- >> yeah. >> -- i need somebody who will be strong and courageous. i need the most diligent worker to follow the path and remain strong in faith. then his oldest son says, "dad, let's make america great again." so god made trump. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

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♪ (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful shot of washington, d.c., as the sun has yet to come up over the capitol. it is 29 past the hour. the senate reached an agreement last night to speed up the votes on a government spending bill to avoid a partial

shutdown tt is set to trigger tomorrow evening. senate majority leader chuck schumer announced yesterday the upper chamber will vote on the measure today in addition to three republican-led amendments that are likely to fail. the legislation will fund the government through early march as appropriators work to finalize a long-ter funding solution. the house has tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. to get the legiation to president biden's desk. if they fail, the government will partially shut down at midnight. meanwhile, president biden met with congressional leadership yesterday at the white house to discuss ongoing concerns over the border, ukraine, and israel. senate majority leader chuck schumer and minority leader mitch mcconnell expressed optimism a bipartisan senate deal on the border is imminent. but speaker mike johnson continues to push house

republican demands for hard line changes at the border that stand no chance of passing in the democratic senate. that comes as senate republicans are warning their house colleagues not to miss the moment. >> to those who think that if president trump wins, which i hope he does, we can get a better deal, you won't get this security without granting a pathway to citizenship. it is unheard of. so if you think you're going to get a better deal next time in '25 if president trump is president, democrats will be expecting a pathway to citizenship for that, in my view. >> i will say this, any idea that somehow if we get majorities next year and we get the white house, that this gets done with the republican majority in the senate, i think, doesn't understand the democrats.

the democrats will not give us -- will not give us anything close to this if we have to get 60 votes in the united states senate in a republican majority. we have a unique opportunity here, and the timing is right to do this. >> you have john thune, also mitch mcconnell, the leaders of the senate, republicans in the senate saying to the house, "this is the best deal we're ever going to get on border security." init's the best, strongest deal ever done on border security. senate democrats are working with senate republicans on the deal. senate republicans. senate democrats. the white house. they're all agreeing on a tough border deal. all agreeing to aid israel. all agreeing to aid ukraine. and you've got mike johnson and

some radicals that are in the house -- who, by the way, house republicans passed fewer bills than any congress. talk about a do nothing congress. any congress in a generation. and with mike johnson, you have a guy who is constantly on the issue of funding ukraine been pro vladimir putin. you have a pro putin speaker who voted no on all ukrainian aid, a pro putin speaker who now is killing a bill that's the toughest border security bill ever. i'm just asking, why? is it because he is pro putin? is he because he is afraid ukraine is going to get aid? aid that he's voted against time and time again. if he had his way, vladimir putin would already be to kyiv because he's voted against all

funding to defend ukraine against russian aggression. so, now, he's also killing a bill that would stop what's happening on the southern border, the chaos on the southern border. again, you have to ask, why? if you've got republicans saying, "this is the toughest bill ever, and we will never get a tougher bill on border security," and mike johnson is still killing it, come on, mikie. come on. are you planning to go to, like, st. petersburg this summer and see the palace? this doesn't make any sense at all. >> he doesn't want biden to look good in any way. >> well, i don't know. that's what we're saying. but if you have a guy that voted against ukrainian aid time and time and time again -- >> not very smart. >> -- and ukraine now is at a crisis point where they desperately need this aid or

vladimir putin will, in fact, make great progress on the battlefield -- because that's what we're hearing from ukraine and military experts everywhere -- you have to ask yourself, so, wait a second, this guy is saying no to the toughest border security bill ever, ever? and he's got his own republican colleagues in the senate saying, "it'll get no better than this." you tell me. is that logical? doesn't seem like it's about the border. maybe it's about letting vladimir putin take all of ukraine. that's going to be a hell of a campaign ad come this fall. house republicans help putin conquer ukraine. lots of luck with that one. let's bring in congressional -- well, willie, you know, i'm sorry, but this makes no sense. when something doesn't make sense, there's a reason it doesn't make sense. when you have lindsey graham

saying, this is the best deal -- >> publicly. >> -- you're ever going to get. going to a podium and saying that. when you have john thune saying that, a rock solid conservative saying that. when you have james langford, a guy who has been critical of the biden administration every day on the border, and it's james langford that's helping put together this tough, conservative border security bill, and then you have the speaker of the house and these, i don't know, are they pro-putin republicans? i'm sure a lot of these people voted against ukraine aid time and time again. but they're saying, "no, no, no, we're not going to give you ukraine aid because we're not going to vote for this border security bill," and, yet, it's the republicans in the senate saying, "this is the best bill we will ever get," makes no sense. >> the answer might be something that speaker johnson actually said out loud yesterday, which is, donald trump is running the house of representatives. he's been talking constantly, he

says, to donald trump. donald trump doesn't want to give what he thinks is a win to joe biden, and so speaker johnson is following orders from the boss. republicans in the house are following orders from the boss. >> wait, wait, willie, you're saying that donald trump is helping vladimir putin here? why, that's just shocking. >> vladimir putin certainly appreciates it. we know that from past history, and we know he'll keep this war going, at least until he sees what happens in the 2024 election. you're right, joe, i'm watching this play out and thinking back to, not that long ago, certainly when you were in congress, to a time when the point was to get things done. the point was to sit down with people from the other side, and you don't get purely what you want. you don't get 100% of what you want. it's called a negotiation. you get some of what you want, just enough of what you want, and you give a little there where you come to the table as the adults in the senate are doing, joe, and you get a deal. it appears they're real close to getting something that, as you said, would be significant to the crisis at the border.

but the house is rejecting that because, pretty plainly now, they don't want to give a win, could be construed, to joe biden. >> a deal that is a lot closer to conservative james langford's position and conservative john thune's position than it is the majority of the democratic caucus in the senate or the house. let's bring in congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany. we have two things going. we have mike johnson and, i don't know, maybe we won't call them the pro-putin forces in the house but the anti-freedom forces in the house. you have mike johnson and a lot of people that are against ukrainian aid saying, "this is never going to happen. we're not going to pass a border security bill." meanwhile, you've got the senate, republicans and democrats, mitch mcconnell going, "we think we'll have a deal next week." what's going on there? >> yeah, i think everything you guys outlined really speaks to

all of the different competing factions at play here. perhaps most prescient and most pressing is the fact that mike johnson needs the support of these unruly hard liners who are now already threatening to issue a motion to vacate, to oust him, as they did with former speaker mccarthy, ahead of potential government shutdown where he needs the support of the majority of his conference in order to get the short-term bill done which the senate will vote on today and then the house, or tomorrow to avert a government shutdown by saturday. that helps explain some of the commentary you've heard from mike johnson yesterday, kind of pandering to these hard liners, people like marjorie taylor greene, who said if johnson basically cedes to the biden administration and this group of bipartisan senators who have hashed out this border deal that would expand detention powers

and limit the ability for people who have crossed the border to seek asylum, that they will follow through with their threats to issue a motion to vacate and get rid of him. you know, it overall speaks to the broader predicament that mike johnson has faced the second that he took this job, which is, this is an impossible conference to work with and get things done. at the end of the day, there is a significant group of people who do not want to get anything done and who have said, in different forms over the past year and a half, that they're okay with that. a government shutdown is worth the fight at the end of the day if they're not getting the spending cuts that they claim johnson agreed to. right now, according to a framework that he hashed out with schumer last month, it is really only $16 billion overall in spending cuts. >> yeah, you know, it is fascinating. so we have comrade green telling

comrade johnson he's going to get booted from the bureau if he supports a bill that republicans in the senate are doing. >> right. >> which is really weird. again, i didn't know comrade green was so powerful, but i guess we'll have to look exactly where their placement is on mayday on the speaker's balcony, to see who is in power, who is out of power. because, right now, it just seems as the republicans are saying, conservative republicans are saying in the senate, "this is the best border deal we have." >> right. >> "we're never going to get a better border deal." yet, you have people who voted against ukrainian aid to help vladimir putin from the start, that are killing border aid, this border bill. obviously, i think, because ukrainian aid is in there, too. >> yeah. >> and donald trump wants to help vladimir putin, always has.

he said the invasion was brilliant. said that putin was brilliant. he's talked about ending this war in a day. now, the comrades in the house, fellow travelers in the house of representatives, are helping comrade putin by, again, killing ukrainian aid and claiming it's about border security, when the senate republicans are calling them liars. >> two things here. it is scary that donald trump is still so frail to vladimir putin, that there is some connection there. >> sad. >> he feels he owes him something. don't know what is going on there. >> very weak. >> secondly, what is going on in the house, there was a time when this would seem shocking, but this isn't it because of the fire hose of falsehoods and other things that donald trump has brought to these weak members of congress. during a house oversight committee hearing yesterday on border security, democratic

congressman jared moskowitz of florida crystallized how house republicans are just playing cynical politics with the issue. >> you listen to my colleagues, you would think the world didn't begin until president biden was elected. you would think it was dinosaurs, the wheel, jesus, the world was flat, the world was round, biden was elected, every problem. like nothing happened before. in fact, president obama deported more people in each term than president trump. hold on a second. if the border wasn't a problem until president biden was elected, then how were we deporting all of these people in administrations before trump was elected? it's because this situation has been going on for decades. so stop lying to the american people that none of this happened until president biden was elected.

just listen to the speaker who was caught on a call the other day saying that, "we can't solve the border crisis until after the election." by the way, here is congressman troy nieles giving it away. i'm not willing to do a darn thing to help the democrats or biden's approval. i'm not helping this man's dismal approval ratings. i'm not going to do it. he says he's not doing anything on the border, and he's from texas, which needs help. i'm willing to do stuff on the border. i'm willing to do it. but they're not willing to do it because they're doing what people hate about this place. they want to use it to raise money. they want to use it to politicize it, but they don't want to solve the issue. there is a deal on the table. >> gentleman's time expired. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> saying the quiet part out loud in some ways. jackie, when it comes to border security, there actually is a

lot of agreement, as we've seen, between republicans and democrats. yes, republicans want some measures more stringent, but you have democrats in the house and senate saying, absolutely, we have to do something on border security. where does this leave, though, the issue of ukraine? i keep hearing from senators that they're confident that america will not abandon the ukrainians. they know what that would do to allies around the world. they know the cost of doing that. but i'm listening to the house, and i just don't -- maybe you hear it, but i'm not hearing that this is something that they're prepared to do because they don't want to give the president any kind of win. >> you're absolutely right. that's something we can't underestimate here, the political imperative of house republicans, people like troy neels and bob good saying we don't want to give democrats the win, and it'll dictate our vote. people continue to say we're not going to continue to fund ukraine, pointing to some of

what they believe to be misspending on part of zelenskyy and the ukrainian forces. when mike johnson walked out of the meeting at the white house yesterday with chuck schumer, house intelligence members, jake sullivan, admiral hanes and joe biden, he acknowledged that he came out thinking we need to continue to assist kyiv in some capacity. and i think at the end of the day, if the house has to ultimately vote on something on this package that mcconnell says is going to make it through potentially next week, that it is going to put republicans in a jam. you know, it is hard, i think, to look at people like mark green and members on the homeland security issue who are bringing in the parents of people who have been killed by migrants and trying to argue they need to impeach mayorkas, while also trying to kill a border bill that lindsey graham is saying is the best thing

lawmakers have seen in years. and having a discussion about border security without a pathway to citizenship is almost unheard of and something that would never get done in a potential future trump administration. so i think what you saw yesterday is a prelude to this potential jam that mike johnson is going to make next week with his members. >> willie, think about this. jackie brings up such a great point. they want to impeach mayorkas because, they say, there's not order at the border. and then they say, we're not going to do anything to fix the border because it may also help joe biden politically. so they're impeaching a guy for chaos at the border. they got the most conservative border security bill ever,

according to lindsey graham, according to john thune, according, my god, to james langford, one of the most conservative members in all of the senate. from oklahoma, running the show. again, he's been anti-biden since day one. they say, we're not going to do again. the comrades in the house say, we're not going to do anything to fix the border. talk about hypocrisy. just lay it out for everybody to see. i hope those impeachment hearings are televised because they're going to be fun as hell to watch. >> so there is chaos. there is a crisis at the border. republicans, democrats get together on the senate side and say, "yes, there is. we've identified the problem. here's what we propose to do about it." the house rejects it because it is so important to them that donald trump return to the white house, that joe biden doesn't get a win, that they won't take the solution they've been being

for for how long. the other side of this, of course, john, we're talking about the politics of this is, it'd be a shame to let this moment pass. there is a crisis at the border. it is an untenable situation. here's a moment, a rare moment, it comes around, like, once a decade, where you might get something done that both parties could agree on about immigration. it looks like the house is willing to let that opportunity slide in defense of donald trump. >> yeah, and white house officials recognize something has to get done at the border. they've changed their tune in he cent months. they're willing to go pretty far, to the point where there are some in the biden orbit that are anxious at how progressives will react. but they're willing to make the deal. i think progressives will eventually stay home. john thune is right, i think he said it very well. he's being clear-eyed about the politics of this. if the republicans wait for trump to come back to office and they have majorities in both houses, democrats will make their lives difficult. they'll exact far more concessions than they are now.

republicans in the senate, you can see the frustration on their faces. again, most republicans in the senate also do want to help ukraine. mitch mcconnell among them. this is a deal, white house officials i spoke to last night after the meeting, they weren't as enthusiasm as schumer who came out trying to spin it. this is the closest we have been to a deal. but they think johnson will have to cave and make some compromise. the blowback would be so hard the other way if he doesn't, snow and mika. this isn't done yet, and we have a government funding shutdown deadline looming tomorrow night that's complicating things further. there is also a snowstorm coming to washington that will accelerate the timetable here. may not be able to have votes tomorrow. but they're not, to use the football analogy, they're not at the five yard line, but they're moving down the field fast. >> jackie alemany, thank you, as always.

coming up, andrea mitchell joins us with her reporting on the growing tension between president biden and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. we'll be right back. ahu. we'll be right back. is overwhelming. but i never just found my way; i made it. and did all i could to prevent recurrence. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence of hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive, early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor when added to hormone therapy. hormone therapy works outside the cell... while verzenio works inside to help stop the growth of cancer cells. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain,

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five minutes before the top of the hour. the united states has launched a new round of strikes against houthi military sites in yemen. according to central command, yesterday's attack destroyed 14 missiles that the pentagon called an imminent threat. it happened hours after a drne launched from houthi-controlled territory in yemen struck a u.s.-owned ship in the gulf of aden. there were no injuries from the attack, and the ship suffered minor damages. pakistan carried out strikes inside southeastern iran targeting what it says were terrorist hideouts. the attacks came two days after iran launched missiles into

pakistan. in its statement, pakistan said, it respects iran's territorial integrity, but the strikes were carried out in pursuit of pakistan's own secury and national interest. on tuesday, iranian state media reported missiles and drones had targeted two bases belonging to a militant group in pakistan that had suck iranian security forces. pakistan called the attack unprovoked and said no children -- two children were killed. antony blinken spoke at the world economic forum in davos following his latest diplomatic blitz through the middle east. while there, saudi arabia's mohammed bin salman and other arab leaders told blinken they'd help rebuild gaza after the war with israel. with saudi arabia even agreeing to normalize relations with the jewish state in exchange for a pathway to statehood for

palestinians. netanyahu rejected the offer. now, three senior u.s. officials tell nbc news the biden administration is looking past the primeinister to try to acev its goals in the region. several senior u.s officials told nbc news that netanyahu, quote, will not be there forever. >> let's bring in right now with that reporting on the mounting frustration between biden and netanyahu, chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. andrea, the white house has been hopeful saudi arabia would stay in the game. saying last week that they believed that they still would come out and do what they did yesterday. that's a pretty big deal considering the chaos that's been going on since october 7th because of the hamas attacks. >> absolutely. >> but tell us, if you will, how close is joe biden to saying publicly what he's saying privately, that he's had enough

of benjamin netanyahu? >> well, his language is getting a lot more -- a lot tougher, but it still is not as tough certainly as the secretary of state, who was much more explicit about this on the trip, and his other advisors and aides certainly have been. interestingly, joe and mika, the two men have not talked since december 23rd. after october 7th, they were talking almost every other day. in the december 23rd conversation, by multiple reports, the president, president biden, basically hung up the phone. we don't know if it was -- how abrupt it was, but it was fairly abrupt, over a disagreement. they were arguing over netanyahu's continuing refusal to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues owed to the palestinian authority in the west bank that they have cut off since october 7th. these are revenues that pass through israel. they don't have money to pay the palestinian security forces. the american argument, this is

self-defeating and increasing tensions. unemployment, of course, rampant in the west bank, as well as the lack of security there. the frustration is really mounting between president biden and netanyahu, with frustration that, frankly, the state department has long felt because they're disagreeing over humanitarian aid. secretary blinken, i was on that trip, you mentioned nine countries in eight days, and what he did deliberately this time was line up the arab countries first. instead of israel, he went to the arab countries, including speaking to saudi arabia, his visit is mohammed bin salman, the leader there, who agreed that he would normalize relations. people didn't think that after october 7th, after the devastation in gaza and the strength of the israeli offensive, which despite the justification, the u.s. feels, was alienaing palestinias

arnold the world and making their leaders, the monarchs and others feel threatened. in any case, he said he was willing to do this. he'd lead the arab world in rebuilding gaza, in bringing together palestinian governments and reformed, not corrupt, younger leadership, which is, of course, upsetting the west bank leadership right now, but bringing together the west bank and gaza to secure and govern gaza, but would only do it if there was a pathway, not immediately, but a pathway to a palestinian state. a palestinian state is something that you guys know has been in place since camp david, since mika's father helped broker that landmark deal. then it was, you know, ratified, solidified in the oslo accords in 1991 by president clinton, arafat in 1993. every israeli leader prior to benjamin netanyahu has gone along with a two-state solution, giving the palestinian some

hope, some aspiration. that was not the demand of the saudis and the other arabs for normalization before october 7th. now it is. multiple officials, arab as well as u.s. officials, say that since october 7th, since everything has happened with the israeli offensive, they feel that, now, the demand has to be for a lot more for the palestinians. it has to be statehood. that is something that netanyahu flatly rejected in the meetings. that's why the administration is now thinking of a post-netanyahu world. you heard today in davos the beginnings of a hint that others in the government -- not in the coalition -- but others might also be willing to do that. it was eluded to, to saudi normalization, in a post-netanyahu world. >> in the midst of this strategy, in the midst of this internal domestic turmoil, both in israel and in this country as a result of what happened on october 7th, is there a

calendar, a clock? i mean, we still have americans being held hostage. the hostages as far as we know, the international red cross has not been allowed to see them. we don't have really proof of life for a lot of the hostages. the clock that's ticking on that, is there a time limit on this? how long will the president's patience be tested before finally something has to happen. >> well, the message from blinken on the trip in israel was this needs to be week, not months. the hohostages, some of the american families i met with yesterday on the hill. they met with leaders. they're going to the white house today and will see jake sullivan. they are desperate. the families whom i spoke to and we're going to be profiling them later today on my program on the "today" show, they're saying, it's been 104 days today. we don't have proof of life. we don't have information. the state department, the fbi

have been calling them regularly, keeping in touch with them, but they are desperate. there is the possibility of new negotiations. i was told there is a new offer that we've heard in qatar from the prime minister. they are talking. there is a post, you know, the assassinations that happened a couple weeks ago of the hamas leader in beirut that they thought would end all of the talks, that's what hamas said, but they are again talking. it's being done through the cia director, through the mossad leader. talks are going on. there is the potential of a new proposal on the table. we don't have the details. we're beginning to see more of that, but the hostage families are getting desperate. >> certainly are. andrea mitchell, thank you so much. of course, we'll be watching "andrea mitchell reports" weekdays at noon on msnbc. katty kay, antony blinken,

the secretary of state, the president of the united states, jake sullivan, the entire administration has had enough of benjamin netanyahu. the israelis have had enough of benjamin netanyahu. i mean, after all, he is a guy whose government had the attack plans, the terrorist attack plans for over a year and did nothing about it. they knew in 2018 about secret funding sources of hamas along with donald trump's government, did nothing about it. a month before the attacks, qatar asked netanyahu's government, "should we continue funding hamas," and netanyahu's government said, "yes." they were asleep at the wheel. my god, asleep when the worst attack against jews since the holocaust happened on october 7th. then it took them hours and hours and hours to respond, while women were being raped, while grandmothers were burned alive, while babies were being

shot in their crib. the israelis have had enough of netanyahu. biden has had enough of netanyahu. any thought on when this ends? >> i mean, that would be the timetable we'd like to ask, right? i mean, we knew before october 7th that netanyahu was very unpopular. we saw all of those demonstrations. we saw that delay in response on october 7th that you've asked so often about, that still has not been answered. why did it take the troops so long to rescue the people down in the kibbutzes? that's fueled conspiracy theories all through the middle east, that this was somehow something the israelis orchestrated, which is absurd, but which fuels that kind of conspiracy. when you have questions that aren't answered, it allows people to try and answer them themselves. netanyahu, all of that is being investigated, netanyahu at the crux of all of that. it is not clear as israelis are

in this moment, and senators i've spoken to who have returned from the region have said, there is really no appetite at the moment in israel for a change. there is no appetite for doing anything other than prosecuting this war against hamas in gaza. the liberal, more center of israeli politics has evaporated, effectively. for the moment, israelis seem to be sticking with netanyahu. they have to look beyond netanyahu because the saudis' condition for helping a palestinian authority is, you know, that there has to be this two-state solution. otherwise, they're not going to do it. that is something that netanyahu, time and again, said he hasn't got. he's holding up the process. if there is to be any chance of peace for the israelis living alongside palestinians, it's very hard to see how that can happen with netanyahu where he is. >> all right. we'll continue this. we'll turn now at six minutes past the top of the hour

to politics. with just five days to go until the new hampshire primary, former president donald trump is sharpening his focus and escalating his attacks against his rival, nikki haley. trump rallied a crowd of supporters in the city of portsmouth last night, trying to claim the former south carolina governor is a secret democrat. >> a vote for nikki haley this tuesday is a vote for joe biden and a democrat congress this november. that's what's going to happen. but if she wins, biden wins. i'm telling you that. that's why they're sending all theseratsn to run, and it is craz >> of course, if donald trump wins, communist leaders win. donald trump loves communist leaders, whether they're from north korea or china, whether they're in russia right now and calling themselves by another name. yeah, if donald trump wins,

communist leaders across the globe win. that is if you take them a his own word. >> well, the former presen attacks nikki haley all day on social media. yesterday, he appeared to make a dig at haley's indian heritage by misspelling her name. he also posted a photo of haley's face edited and merged onto an image of hillary clinton. in an effort to draw similarities between the two? meanwhile, haley tried to strike back. her campaign released a nearly two-minute video showing various clips of trump praising haley for her work in his administration when s served as his u.n. ambassador. haley also responded on x, cain trump confused. she blamed him for republicans losing the house, senate, and white house in the 2020 election. let's bring in former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer

palmieri. she and clear mccaskill are co-hosts of the podcast, "how to win 2024." author and msnbc political analyst anand, thank you for joining us. >> nikki haley has rightfully gone home to visit her dad who is in the hospital. >> yeah, it's sad. >> aside from that, there are a lot of people in new hampshire that are wondering, why is she disappearing when we talk about debates? why is she refusing to answer questionsn town hall meetings? why is her campaign seemingly evaporating at a time when she really, really needs to take it in to, you know, second, third, fourth gear? i mean, by the way, have you ever heard of a candidate in new hampshire who refuses to answer

questions at town hall meetings? >> i know. i know. i mean, it's a sad deal about her dad and that she has to leave the trail to go down and be with him, and that's just tough. new hampshire will save you, but you have to do it new hampshire's way. even if you put a sign, "i'm having to leave to be with my father," haley hasn't, even in the last couple days, not embraced this doing the new hampshire way. new hampshire saved bill clinton. finishing second, by the way, which is masterful management of expectations. that was his big comeback. 2008, after hillary lost to president obama in iowa, you know, she came back and won in a surprise in new hampshire. after hillary won iowa in '16, bernie sanders beat her. if you'll work with them, it means you have to be all in on

new hampshire. when you leave iowa, you land in the middle of the night in new hampshire. you do a big rally. you know, haley didn't do that. she waited and did something tuesday afternoon. you know, like, you don't sleep at all the first night. you go to the merrimack diner, you see voters, and you say yes to every invitation. you do town halls. you take every single question, both from the voters and also the media. like, there is a dynamic that can develop with the media, where they, too, get caught up in the excitement of new hampshire. it can be the most magical week in politics. the candidate has to be the front end of pushing momentum and trying to create that momentum. >> right. >> she's just not doing that. >> yeah. >> for whatever reason. >> i think because she's not actually responding to him in

any way about anything about him. >> well, mike -- >> she goes around the edges and, he wasn't the right president at the right time. that doesn't seem to be a response to him insulting her personally. >> well, worse than that, mike, she's not responding to new hampshire voters. you know a hell of a lot about new hampshire. you've been to a lot of new hampshire primaries. reported on a lot of new hampshire primaries. candidates who are supposed to be surging don't cancel debates and refuse to answer voters' questions. >> you know, joe, of all the primaries that we've ever held, whatever presidential year you're talking about, new hampshire is, still is, always will be fun. fun for the candidates. >> right. >> fun for the media. fun for the people. you can sum up the magic of the new hampshire primary with one story. the late, great moe, i think

'76. mo udall walks into barbershop, shaking hands. the fellow said, mo, i'm thinking about it, but i've only met you twice. that's the way new hampshire is. they like to see people, talk to people, and get some answers from people running for president. nikki haley, whatever opportunities she's had to come close in the new hampshire primary, because there are an awful lot of moderates in new hampshire who vote on primary day, whatever shot she had at picking up a substantial percentage of them to get her closer to donald trump, who will win the new hampshire primary, it's gone. it's gone. by the simple refusal, and we mentioned it a couple times this morning, her simple refusal to answer questions in a handshaking line at a town hall, at a fire station, at a cook--

not a cookout, but a coffee clash, whatever. you have to do it. you have to personalize it. new hampshire is a personal primary. >> especially for nikki haley, who put all her eggs really in the new hampshire basket. now, as joe said, people raising the question, does she really want to win? is she playing for second place? does she want a job with donald trump? because she, again, will not go directly after donald trump. watch this exchange between nikki haley and dana bash of cnn this week. >> you're the only woman in this race. how do you feel about your party's frontrunner being held liable for sexual abuse? >> first of all, i haven't paid attention to his cases, and i'm not a lawyer. all i know is he is innocent until proven guilty. when he's in a courtroom, that is what i'm talking about. you have investigations on trump and biden. >> a lot of people -- forgive me, but a lot of people in the republican party blow it off and say, it's all a witch hunt.

>> some of the cases have been political. >> this one, in particular? >> i haven't looked at it, but if he's guilty, he needs to pay the price and do what he is supposed to. every one of the cases, they need to be heard out. he needs to defend himself. if he is guilty, he'll pay the price. if he is not guilty, we move forward. >> it's hard to watch, john. >> i can't. >> hard to watch. >> pathetic. >> so -- >> just stop. >> yeah. >> no comment. i haven't been following it. i'm not a lawyer? you don't need to be a lawyer to understand what is going on here. the equivalent, well, there's investigations on joe biden, too. nikki haley knows there is no equivalency between what joe biden is being accused of, without evidence, and the myriad of charges against donald trump. >> he is in court where the judge said heraped a woman.

nikki haley says, "i've not been following the case." it's a classic marco rubio move. i haven't been following, like -- >> you're not interested? >> i haven't been following it. >> it's not personal to you in any way? >> you haven't been following the factw wa -- raped, according to a yuj judge, a jury found him liable of sexual assault, found him liable for defaming the woman, the judge said donald trump raped. after that defamation verdict came down, he continued to defame the woman. the woman the judge said he raped. even in court and on truth social, he continues to defame the woman the judge says he

raped. nikki haley says she can't comment on it because she hasn't really followed the case, and she's not a lawyer. this is somebody who wants to be president of the united states? sounds like this is somebody who wants to be vice president of the united states. >> exactly. >> yeah, but in a way, i think she understands the reality of the situation. which is that, in my mind, iowa, new hampshire, all these primaries we're going to go through are distractions and sideshows. because one person on the right has a movement and actually has a cult of a movement, and has behind him a giant media information radicalization funnel that continues to turn more and more people, convert more and more people into d

dilute diluted zealots. nobody on the right attempted to cut into that, had run against him, has had the courage to fully call him out for what he is doing to the country. there are little bits, some more than others. frankly, nobody on the left is adequately thinking about how to build a movement that is as powerful, forceful, emotive, as what he has built. so all of these things from my point of view, the diners, all the things that we all used to cover as the kind of trappings of this process, i think we're living in a new century and a new country when it comes to this political moment. we have to adjust to the new reality of living in a mass kind of anti-democratic, mass movement with a mass movement leader who wants to be a self-professed dictator.

it is new territory. >> it must be said, donald trump is the most dominant political figure we've seen in a long time in this nation's history, and he has movement. it has a ceiling at some point, but he has a movement. there is no one in the republican party able to take that from him. i think what we saw, joe and mika, from nikki haley, republicans said to me, they wonder where the fire is. they do wonder if she is trying to play for the vp slot. she is, you know, the trump team knocks it down every so often, but she's on the short list of people they talk about. they anticipate trump will pick a woman. kari lake, kristi noem, elohse elise stefanik. they're in the mix. they wonder why her schedule isn't stronger, why she's not taking questions, why she's not going after trump. we had a pair of polls yesterday that show her ten plus points down in new hampshire. if that happens, if she loses new hampshire, i'd argue if she loses it a all, but certainly by double digits, it is game over. it's over. nikki haley, yes, the third

contest is south carolina. that's her home state. she's down 30 or 40 points to donald trump in that state. she is going to lose her home state in embarrassing fashion. the question, frankly, becomes, if she loses new hampshire by ten poipoints, does she drop ou ahead of south carolina to save herself the embarrassment of being crushed in her home state? if she wants to win the race, it has to be everything. chips in the center of the table, new hampshire, new hampshire. she's not doing it. if she doesn't, the race is over. >> well, it's just like the southern border deal. if you've got the best southern border deal in history for republicans, and you've got a house republican leadership that's opposing the bill and it doesn't make sense, i always tell my kids, if something doesn't make sense, there is a reason it doesn't make sense. so if nikki haley isn't doing what every other candidate in

history would do, which is, just like what jen said, you want to get momentum in new hampshire? you thank people in iowa, get on a plane, get to new hampshire, standing on a flatbed in the freezing cold, talking to a group of people. when the morning comes, sun is rising, you're shaking people's hands as they're going to work, you're going to diners, sitting there, talking to them. you're all over the place. >> loving it. >> you answer every question. nikki haley, of course -- and, again, if you're just tuning in, we understand and we salute her for being with her father in the hospital. that's a -- that's an important thing to do. apart from that, she is doing nothing that suggests she actually wants to win new hampshire. not answering people's questions at town hall meetings. not doing any of that. so she's, again, she's playing

for second place. i will say, what anand is saying, what jonathan lemire is saying, donald trump does have a movement, right? but that movement, in the end, has all the success in general elections of the new york jets. so you can say the new york jets have a movement, too, right? look at all the people that come to new york jets games, despite the fact they always lose in the end. and always let people down in the end. you know, willie, they'll, at the beginning of the season, they're strong starters. they'll get aaron rodgers. they'll have lights on him. he'll be running out of the locker room. he'll be carrying an american flag high into meadowlands. the lights will be on him. fireworks will be going off.

you'll plant the flag on the 50 yard line. the jets, the stadium is going crazy, just like extreme maga supporters are right now. then, willie, what happens? >> four plays. >> wa-wa-wa. the jets do jets things. just like 2017, '18, '19, '20, '21, '22, '23, republicans have lost. anand is right. i know what he is thinking, joe is way too cocky, comparing this movement to the new york jets. i'm saying, if you judge them by their seasons in 2017 to 2023, hard to separate, mika, extreme maga republicans from the new york jets. >> well, i'm going to take it back to nikki haley not answering questions. i think one of the reasons is because she doesn't have a truthful, correct answer. that answer with dana bash was

really -- as a woman, that hurt to watch. that hurt. that's an insult to every woman in america, that she could not stand up to that question and answer it with the truth. we're talking about a man -- and, yes, i'm going to use the word, okay? we're talking about a man who bragged on tape, not knowing he was being taped, i think it was the "access hollywood" tape, about grabbing women by their vaginas. i'm not kidding. you see the tape. he bragged about it. this is a man who had sex with a porn star and paid her off. there's litigation over that, whether campaign finance money was used. this is not a good man when it comes to women. this is a misogynist. this is a sexist. this is a man who makes fun of women's looks, who makes a kind of sport to go after women and bring them down on social media. he's a vile sexist, katty.

nikki haley not just let herself down there but many others. i think it seeps through when she only kicks sideways and she doesn't kick forward against what is wrong. >> i was longing to ask the follow-up in that interview, which is, yeah, he has been found guilty, so now what is your response? we've already had that trial, right? a jury -- >> right. >> -- a e. jean carroll's peers found donald trump guilty of sexual abuse, which a judge called rape. and she still dodges it. i mean, the other thing i think we've shown this morning, to your point about donald trump and women, is that awful picture, merging nikki haley and hillary clinton. i mean, it's just sort of grotesque. first of all, is that the only two women he can think of in politics, so all women are the same? which is absurd because nikki haley and hillary clinton are such different people.

but, somehow, well, they're all women, so they must all be terrible. then the picture itself is just demeaning. then calling her by a misspelling of her indian name, playing to the lowest common denominator of both misogyny and racism. that's what happened in the course of the last 24 hours in respect to women. she doesn't, you know -- she sort of gives him cover by saying, "well, i'm not a lawyer. i don't know if he has been found guilty, then that'd be different." he has been found guilty. he has. a court found him guilty. >> donald trump turning to her indian name, the old barack hussein obama trick. reminding supporters, remember, she's not one of us. anand, you have a piece "the realbattleground of 2024 is emotion." you write, o of the strange dynamics of the trump era, as the right has beco more and

more a movement of passion more than reason, appeal mor than policy solutions, the left has drifted the other way. today's electoral left is highly cerebral. it is spious of the politics of passion. it doesn't do emotional appeals. it doesn't have much of a role for music, for the body, for in-person communing in public spaces, for catchy slogans, for arresting vial if this were an age defined by policy qutis, that'd be one thing, but it is an age dene by big feelings, anxiety, fear, future dread, and a confusion among millions o people about who they will be on the far side of head-spinning change all around us, people are lost. not sure how to make sense of their place in a world of upheaval. in an era such as this, leaving the politics of emotions, of passion, to democrats is dangerous. so if the left would have a movement as what donald trump created based in emotion, what would it look like?

what should it look like? >> my guidance on this comes from folks a generation or two older than me who lived through the '60s. another period where, sorry to look at you, mike, but where there was these existential stakes for the country. it felt like everything was up for grabs, the big questions of war, peace, and inclusion. in addition to political candidates and movements and elections, there were music festivals that weren't directly associated but allied with it. that helped supply thinking and new ideas. there were chants. there were ways people dressed to distinguish themselves from other people. there was a kind of whole of society -- if you didn't agree with a president or leader on an issue, you might still feel yourself to be part of a movement for a larger thing. right now, donald trump, for all the horror that he represents, has actually drawn on, as many

autocratic leaders have, real insight around how mass movements form, how to make people feel things. a lot of people who vote for donald trump disagree with donald trump on 80% of issues or are unaware of his stance on 80% of issues. that's not what it's about. they're just with him. we've all met these people. it's not a -- they're not doing spreadsheet checks on his policies or his record. they're just with him. so i think it is an interesting question to think about. it is easy for autocrats to do that, no question. can pro-democratic leaders do the same? this is a question not just in the united states but around the world. pro-democratic movements that are up against authoritarian ones are struggling everywhere to make people feel things, to get the blood up, to have a sense of passion. so i think we need a big policy vision, first of all. that's the anchor. if nothing in the middle, then you have nothing. it would be great to see this

white house come up with a real plan to make people's lives better in the second term and tell us what the story is and not just write out accomplishments past. but then a real cultural program of a movement, something that makes people pull in. irl organizing in every community, song, music, festivals, the whole thing. and a story. i will say this a million times on this show, a story about america that is more compelling than the small-hearted story from the other side. >> i don't disagree with you, first of all. >> that's a good start. >> i think you are correct. but why is it the left, progressives, whatever they're calling themselves these days, they've forgotten the story that was right in the palm of their hand? the story is, they should ask themselves some of these questions. who built your party? who formed the spine of your party? who fought for your country? who comes down the street to put out your fires?

who comes down the street to protect your house and your children from vandals, hoodlums? who did this? who built the foundation for the house in the country you live in? they've forgotten those people. those people are the core of a movement that lasted for 50 years, that formed the new deal, that created social security, workman's compensation, the g.i. bill, all the things that built the middle class. >> yup. >> and the progressives today, no time for them. >> well, i think the democratic party, and this has happened in the uk, in a lot of places around the world, center-left parties used to be labor parties, whether in name or in fact. that was the galvanizing force. that was the organizing force. that was the force multiplication in the field, labor unions.

then labor unions were decimated by a reaganite right. membership tanked. so a giant strike force in politics that did that work is gone. in that vacuum, center-left parties, including the democratic party, became much more and more academic, acadea adjacent parties. >> right. >> dominated by debates over terminology. some of the debates are very, very important. >> bigger debate over the harvard presidency than the middle-class people. >> right. that's the kind of -- right? it's not about who is right in the harvard debate. it's like, why are we even talking about harvard? it's the wrong conversation. and we're not talking about making factories safer for people who work there. one of the things we're doing this year is stepping back and looking at these bigger questions of why we are in a situation where american autocracy is even possible. i think one of the things we've looked at in this interview with

ruth is does the democratic party need to recenter itself as a union-based party, particularly in a moment where there is a union resurgence and victories happening there, and be less of an academia adjacent party, less interested in these tedious, hair-splitting debates and more rooted in worker movements. >> jen palmieri, you've run these campaigns. you had to tell these stories to an american public. what should that story be for joe biden? the one he's come up with so far, things have gotten better. we got you through covid. the economy is improving. also, the stakes of this election could not be higher, in that the democracy they may slip away from us if he is not re-elected. that's the case they're making. >> the contrast is always going to be, i mean, given the threat, the contrast is always the most important thing, the most probably convincing thing. but i think the point of the discussion has been going on,

what's missing is something inspiring about what's going right in your life. donald trump does a great job identifying with everything that's going wrong in people's lives. i think what the white house could do is instead of talking about, you know, i did this or i did that, this is what america did. this is what you did. we got through this together. you worked really hard during the pandemic to protect your family and keep your family going. now, we, together, have built a new foundation. here's where we are headed. here's what could happen next. to try to -- because i think people are so -- they're not hearing enough reassuring things about what they can do, what the country can do. it needs to not just be about what biden has done, right? that is what's sort of lacking in the discourse, that there is not a discussion about all the things that are going great, but

americans, what they have done. >> jen palmieri, anand giridharadas, thank you for your insights this morning. coming up on "morning joe," more than a year and a half after one of the deadliest school shootings in u.s. history, the justice department today is expected to release the findings of its investigation into the massacre at robb elementary. we'll get a live report from uvalde, texas, straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. business. with fast and secure payment. card readers you can rely on. and one place to manage it all. whatever the stage, businesses that grow grow with shopify. lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year.

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you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire . later today, the justice department is expected to release the findings of its investigation into the 2022 mass shooting in uvalde, texas, where a gunman killed 19 students and 2 teachers at robb elementary school. joining us now from uvalde is nbc news justice correspondent ken dilanian. ken, what specifically are we expected to learn from this new

report? >> reporter: mika, good morning. you know, the families of the children who died inside robb elementary still have many questions about what happened that day, including why it took authorities more than an hour to engage and kill that 18-year-old gunman. some parents told me they believe this report is their best chance to get answers. this morning, a community still in search of truth and accountability. more than a year after a teenager with an assault style rifle opened fire inside a texas elementary school, taking the lives of 19 children and 2 adults. later today, attorney general merrick garland will deliver the results of an exhaustive justice department investigation into one of the nation's worst school shootings. a source briefed on the nearly 600-page report says it includes disturbing, new details. among them, authorities relaying incorrect information to some parents in the aftermath of the shooting about whether their

children had survived or been killed. according to the source, the report will also detail the failures of medical first responders, police, and government officials. all of it building on a scathing investigation by state lawmakers that found systemic failures and egregiously poor decision making among the nearly 400 law enforcement officers who responded. police body cam footage from the shooting shows officers milling about in the hallways and mistaking a door where the killer was for being locked. >> we're having a problem getting in the [ bleep ] room. it's locked. >> reporter: more than an hour passing before officers confronted and stopped the shooter. during that time, children called 911, begging for help. one of those exchanges revealed in a front line documentary on pbs. >> please, hurry, there's a lot of dead bodies. >> reporter: jacob alvarado saying he rushed to the school where his daughter was a second

grader, his wife a teacher, who texted him about the shooter. both of them survived. >> i could see kids coming out of the windows and coming my way, so i was helping all the kids out. >> reporter: among those who didn't make it out, 9-year-old jacqueline, one of the youngest victims. you don't ever get over a loss like this. >> never, especially this loss. it's unbearable. people say, get over it and go on. how can you? that's your child. >> reporter: investigators say responding officers broke decades of active shooter protocol by failing to confront and stop the threat immediately, but only a handful of officers have been disciplined. the school behind me hasn't been demolished. it still stands, in part because it is needed for evidence in multiple lawsuits. guys. >> my god. nbc's ken dilanian live in uvalde, texas, thank you very much for that report. coming up, we'll get a live report from new hampshire. now just five days away from the

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47 past the hour. some health news involving the british royal family. kensington palace revealed yesterday that princess kate is hospitalized after undergoing abdominal surgery and will spend months recovering at home. hours later, we also learned king charles is set to receive medical care, as well. nbc news foreign correspondent

molly hunter has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, for the second day in a row, kate, the princess of wales, is recovering in the hospital after what kensington palace calls a successful, planned abdominal surgery. saying she will likely remain in the hospital for 10 to 14 days, a rare, lengthy stay. a source at kensington palace confirms her condition is non-cancerous. >> i wish kate well. i think she's a fantastic princess. >> i wish her a fast recovery. >> hopefully she's going to be okay. >> reporter: the palace says she'll cancel all events until after easter, a long time to be out of view for the most popular royal. >> you know, i was told she had a very packed schedule coming up between now and easter. she was very much looking forward to it, and that was just a couple of weeks back. things have obviously moved fairly quickly. >> reporter: kate has long been seen as healthy, very sporty, talking about the benefits of exercise.

>> generally love all sports, love swimming, personally i love swimming. the colder, the better. >> reporter: the no known health issues outside of the much-publicized, extreme morning sickness with all three pregnancies, hospitalized for one. last week on her 42nd birthday, the royal family posted this behind the scenes snap from king charles' coronation, no inkling that anything might be wrong. we last saw kate celebrating christmas with the whole family. the statement adds, she hopes the public will understand her desire to maintain as much normality for her children as possible. george, charlotte, and, of course, little louie are at the center of their lives, and prince william will also postpone events to support his family. also yesterday in a stunning second royal health statement in one day, buckingham palace announced king charles will have a corrective procedure next week for an enlarged prostate. his majesty's condition is benign, the palace says.

reassuring news for the 75-year-old monarch. >> nbc's molly hunter with that report. katty kay, what are you hearing? i think a lot of people are just wondering what it is. maybe it's not our business. but at the same time, it seems like a long time to be out of pocket for it to be something procedural and un-serious. >> yeah, i mean, there is a difference, isn't there, in the way the king handled his diagnosis and the princess' team handled hers. the king wanted to talk about the fact of this being a prostate issue, to raise awareness of an issue that affects a lot of men in later years. he saw it as a public service. the i've reached out to a couple of royal correspondents who know much more about this than i do, i promise you, and they have not had any word on it. i mean, i think we need a medical person to say, what is it, the surgery that could take two weeks, and then take another two months of recuperation, but

of course, we wish her well. >> yes. we hope everybody's okay there. let's talk about america's royal family, the national football league. mike mccarthy will return for a fifth season as head coach of the dallas cowboys. yesterday's announcement ended three days of speculation about the coach's future following sunday's embarrassing wild card home loss to the packers under mccarthy. the cowboys have become the first team in the super bowl era to win 12 games in three consecutive seasons without advancing to at least a conference title game in that span. so john, it's been 28 years since the cowboys even were in a super bowl. they won that year back in the troy aikman and emmitt smith years. haven't been back since. that franchise expects to have a shot at the super bowl every year. they have had teams probably good enough to make a run with dak prescott, but they just kind of faded in the playoffs. i think most people assumed looking at those cutaways of jerry jones in the suite as the team is getting blown out at

home in the first round of the playoffs that mike mccarthy was going to be gone, but as you point out, jerry jones doesn't often make those big moves. >> i had him fired by the end of the third quarter on sunday, but it's been detailed that he has kept his coaches around, even coaches when they fail. jason garrett was there for nearly a decade, and other coaches at least had three, four, five-year runs. mccarthy -- it was a humiliating defeat on sunday and they've underachieved now, but he'll at least get one more year. he'll head into a contract year, but this will also put an end to the speculation of bill belichick. >> right. >> i had thought last week that was a possibility that he might end up in dallas. that's not the case, but there are some rumors about philadelphia. the eagles will keep their coach as well after a first-round flameout. the falcons is probably the destination. not one of the glamor destinations. it's a team that has young

talent, but is in desperate need of a quarterback. he also sees the nfc south as being a weaker division as he chases the all-time wins record. >> you think belichick's not done, right? coached at the highest level. 24 years in new england, and you think he wants to keep going, right? >> i think you do, but you can't say definite that he would. i think he would want to optimally want to go to a team that has a quarterback. atlanta doesn't have a quarterback, but they do have a knowner who he can work well with. >> a blank. >> we've talked about the chargers, the los angeles chargers. the spanos family owns that team. they're noted for hands-on. bill belichick after what he's been through the last four or five years in his mind, he doesn't want that. he wants more control. i think the atlanta owner would give him the most control over any team out there looking for a coach. >> and kind of a weak division we were talking about. >> no quarterback. >> we'll see.

speaking of bill belichick, his replacement was introduced up in new england yesterday. the patriots' first new head coach in a quarter century looked to set himself apart from belichick in the press conference. >> it's with great excitement and pleasure to introduce the next patriots head coach, jerrod mayo. [ applause ] >> i appreciate you. i call him young thundercat, you know, he has a young heart. one thing i did learn from you today, and i had a prepared statement. yours is in, like, 30 times font in times new roman, and i'm in 10. >> what i learned from coach is and from thunder is just surround yourself with good people, right? surround yourself with good people. as far as our staff and things like that, we're going to be good. we're going to be a lot better. bill always says there's

managing expectations. for me, i'm not trying to be bill. i'm not trying to be bill. i think that bill is his own man. if you can't tell by now, i'm a little bit different even up here. the more i think about the lessons that i've taken from bill, hard work works, right? hard work works, and that's what we're all about. >> it's not easy for anybody to fill the shoes of a legend whether it's bill belichick or nick saban in alabama. what are the vibes up in boston and new england about mayo? >> it's very clear he's taking a very different approach, the teasing of robert kraft is not something bill belichick certainly would have done. i think there was a little bit of puzzlement at how quickly they moved to hire mayo when other big names like mike vrabel who has new england ties was available. he's also now the first black head coach of the patriots. he talked about that very

powerfully. he's well liked in the locker room. he was a key member of title teams and he has hope, but they have a lot of rebuilding to do before being competitive again, mike. >> the patriots were contractually committed to him. i think they were probably really surprised when mike vrabel was fired by tennessee and came on the market with no draft pick attached to him. they wouldn't have to do a deal to get him. they could have signed him, but they were contractually committed to jerrod mayo who gets enormously high marks from the players now. he gets enormously high marks from the media which is also critical, and from the family from jonathan and robert kraft. we'll see. we'll see, but it's a whole new era. >> definitely. >> they need a quarterback too. >> they need a quarterback. that counts for a ton obviously in the league. coming up next, we'll turn back to the news to explain why the judge in donald trump's second defamation trial threatened to throw the former president out of the courtroom yesterday. plus, we'll go live to capitol hill for the latest on two major items, the spending

bill to avoid a government shutdown, and the crucial foreign aid package republicans are tying to border security. why the house will not take the deal being hashed out in the senate. "morning joe's" coming right back. nate "morning joe's" coming right back vision. great. one more thing to worry about. it was all too hard to deal with in the beginning, but making a plan with my doctor to add precision was easy. preservision areds2 contains the exact nei recommended, clinically proven nutrient formula to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. thanks to preservision, i feel better that i'm doing something about it like millions of others. preservision. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com ultomiris is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis

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i'm telling you. she can't negotiate. she's a lousy negotiator. other than she's wonderful. she's a wonderful person, but if she wins, biden wins, i'm telling you that, and that's why they're sending in these democrats to run and it's crazy. >> it's not personal for me. i have no, you know, people either want me to hate trump or love trump. that's not what it is. i just tell it on policy. i'm not going to talk about him personally. i don't care about that. i think politics is too personal, and i think that's why people are so frustrated right now. >> all right. donald trump and nikki haley with very different approaches to talking about the other. both are making their pitch to voters in new hampshire while

ron desantis has started squarely on haley's home state. plus, the latest on the foreign aid package that republicans have tied to border security. we'll go through yesterday's meeting at the white house between president biden and speaker mike johnson. also ahead, another concerning escalation in the middle east as pakistan launches a retaliatory strike inside iran. it is thursday, january 18th. willie, we have a lot going on in politics and in foreign policy, but why don't we start in court where things got spicy yesterday? >> yeah, donald trump, a busy man on the campaign trail, in new hampshire, and in the new york city courtroom during the second day of the defamation damages trial he faces involving writer e. jean carroll. the judge threatened to throw

donald trump out of court for talking. the judge also scolded alina habba when she requested for the third time the trial be adjourned so trump could attend his mother-in-law's funeral in florida, and they denied this saying to sit down and habba saying she does not like being spoken to that way. e. jean carroll talks about speaking out against president trump, and speaking out about it damaged her reputation. he called her a liar, and she began to receive hundreds of messages a day, echoing trump's words, many including death threats. she own showed social media posts trump made just yesterday morning before court, continuing to attack carroll and the court. carroll and her attorneys are seeking at least $10 million in damages. let's bring in former litigator,

msnbc legal analyst lisa ruben, and katie renner. good to have you back with us. you seem to be talking about another bizarre day in court where donald trump seems ton trying to instigate some kind of a fight with the judge so he can later claim he was biased against him or whatever he's going to say for his own politics. take us inside the courtroom. what was it like yesterday? >> willie, yesterday was as mika said, spicy, and just as somebody who experienced it, i have a lot of heartburn. when i think about yesterday and what went on in the course of the day, trump's defense team moved for a mistrial, asked for the judge to be recused, and tried to bring out in their cross-examination of e. jean carroll, not one, but two examples of potentially unlawful things she had done. she accused her of spoiling evidence in the case which was

stopped by judge kaplan, and that she has an unlicensed gun. why did that come up? e. jean carroll testified that she sleeps with that gun beside her bed for self-protection because in the wake of these online threats coming from people who have names like sports justice, she doesn't know where the threat is going to come from, and therefore fears for her physical safety. >> so what about this back and forth between the judge -- judge kaplan and donald trump and his team which is to say judge kaplan said, you can't do that in a courtroom? i know you think the rules don't apply to you, former president trump. you can't be disruptive and interrupt and do all the things that you're doing. where does that lead if the former president continues to behave that way? which he's doing intentionally as we know so he can say this judge is biased against me. >> he's doing it intentionally, and one of the things that wasn't picked up in some of the reporting was when kaplan said to him before the recess, you just can't help yourself under the circumstances, can you?

trump walked out and there was a lot of crosstalk and it was difficult to hear, and he shot back, nor can you or you can't either. trump seems to think he's in a battle of wills with an equal. alina habba does too, right? telling the judge, i don't like to be spoken to like that, but i think what is most threatening to donald trump is he doesn't know what kaplan is going to do next because kaplan hasn't made a specific threat. he said, i can eject you from the courtroom, but trump doesn't know whether kaplan will fine him or hold him in contempt, bar him from testifying. there are any number of measures he can take, and the fact he hasn't been clear about which one he will choose is keeping trump as much in line has he has been even though his conduct is unbecoming of any person in a courtroom. >> and mika, the court reporter's transcript shows that this is what donald trump wants is this fight when judge kaplan says, quote, mr. trump, i hope i don't have to consider excluding you from the trial or at least

from the presence. i understand you're probably very eager for me to do that. trump replied, quote, i would love it. just saying out loud what he's trying to do here. >> katie benner, to me, i ask, does he really care about what's going on in the trial or does he want to just get in there to make trouble, to continues to defame e. jean carroll? he's in there again because he continued to defame her losing a case against this woman. so are the tactics to show up, to drum up the base? because again, we've seen data that shows these legal actions against donald trump whether they be indictments or civil cases, seem to tighten support for him. >> i think it's hard to be in trump's head but you're right. there's data that shows two things. first to your point that a lot of support comes out of the woodwork when he goes into the courtroom. he can spin these things and create outcomes and when that doesn't work, he can just say

whatever it is that he wants about the procedures, whether or not there's truth there. so you're right. it helps his supporters, and this is a very personal battle for him, and it is intimidating to e. jenn carroll for him to be there, and she talked a lot about the kind of threats she received from the moment she first talked about the alleged assault, which has been ruled by another court to have happened. so those threats, i think we cannot underestimate, and we can't -- we can't look away from because not only did e. jean carroll testify about them very clearly, these are the kinds of threats that members of the republican party, house members, members of the senate, also get when they defy donald trump. they don't have the same sort of overtones of gender bias and gender discrimination and horrible sexism, but the threats are real, and they're really, really violent. so when she talks about the way that she feels, this is how anybody who defies donald trump feels, and it really helps to understand why he's able to

garner the kind of public support he has from people who even -- who privately talk about how they think he should not be president again. >> i mean, mitt romney yesterday asked by a cnn reporter what he thought about the iowa results, and he said, well, i don't understand the republican party. i don't understand my party. they're supporting a guy who raped a woman, and of course, that's what the judge said, and this is -- just asked mitt romney about the caucus poll that the majority of the gop caucus didn't believe biden was elected legitimately. i think this country is out of touch with reality and will accept anything donald trump tells them. you had a jury that said donald trump raped a woman, and that doesn't seem to be moving the needle. there's a lot of things about today's electorate that i have a hard time understanding. >> you know, my cousin matthew went to a trump event in new hampshire, and just wrote me

this long email about how gobsmacking it was that no matter what trump said, it seemed the audience would just take it completely at face value, no matter how ridiculous, no matter how obvious a lie it was. it was like a religious event. it was like a cult event. they were loving everything he was saying. most of it completely untrue, out of whack, crazy talk. >> and willie, again, you have a judge that has said what donald trump did to e. jean carroll by any definition is rape. you have him guilty in another manhattan case of doing what people have always sort of whispered about him doing over the past 40 years, and that is committing fraud against banks, lying about how much money he has, being fraudulent and getting loans, and again, the majority of caucus-goers, they

don't care, and so -- so again, that's the republican party. i will say we have polls out that show this morning that -- that only 20% of americans say they would still support donald trump -- all americans, if he was, in fact, convicted. so again, we're looking at the republican party which has gone off the cliff for donald trump, and in iowa's case, we're talking about 14% of the party, and i got to say one other thing, one other question. there are a lot of questions abound right now. would you vote for donald trump if he's convicted of a felony? yes, 20%. no, 58%. that's nearly 6 out of 10 voters, including almost a third of republican voters, and of course, 55% of independent voters, so again, all of these polls that are out right now -- i'm sorry, it just doesn't matter. there's actually a head to head

that shows biden ahead of donald trump. it's just so early though. one other thing, willie, i'm just curious about, do we have any answer on what's on donald trump's -- like, donald trump has -- his hands are bleeding. looks like he has a sore. >> is that magic marker? >> is it magic marker? it looks like he has a sore on his index finger there. i don't know. maybe it's magic mark snerp i don't kno -- marker? >> i don't know. it looks like blood, doesn't it? i don't want to speculate. was there anything that happened inside the courtroom yesterday, lisa? >> there was. there was a point in time during the day where trump very frustrated with judge kaplan banged his hands down on the table. i doubt that the blisters or marks that we're seeing there come from that, but could they be exacerbated by that? perhaps. >> like a toddler having a tantrum perhaps and causing bleeding to his hand.

>> yeah. >> let's remind our viewers again. donald trump has been found liable of sexual assault. we're in the penalty phase now. the jury decided that. that's a matter that the court has settled and we're just talking about money here. that's probably why you see so many people as joe just rightly points out saying, i'm not voting for a guy convicted of all this stuff. he has 61,000 votes, and he won 56,000 votes in iowa. just barely cleared 50% of republicans, 14% of republicans stepping out to vote the other night. so it is -- >> right. >> he won big, but a little perspective is important here. >> well, again, it's 14%. when i used to run, i realized that in my district, republicans made up maybe 40% of the electorate, but in the primary, only a third of that 40% were going to vote in a primary. so while everybody else was waving at state fairs, i was

knocking on the doors of the 33% of the 40%. here we have 14% of maybe the 35% of iowa republicans there. so again, relatively small numbers. that's not to say that the polls we see nationwide aren't deeply disturbing about republicans being fine with a man who -- a judge has declared raped a woman, and he's guilty already of fraud. he's been found liable of fraud. we can go down the list. of course, trials on him stealing nuclear secrets which the judge in south florida who hmiliated herself last year once again trying to slow roll that case. i'm not so sure he'll be so lucky though in washington. katie, i wanted to go back to you because while we're talking about -- while we're talking about court cases, i think one of the most fascinating cases regarding presidential

elections, the most -- i think the most since the gore/bush case in 2000 has do with states like colorado and maine trying to keep donald trump off the ballot. in maine, the court spoke. what did they say? >> so in maine they said, we rm don't want to rule on this today because in just under a month really the supreme court is going to begin hearing arguments on essentially the same topic for the state of colorado which has already decided much like maine has, that donald trump should not be on the ballot. so it really applies -- i don't think it applies more pressure -- puts more pressure on the supreme court, but it underscores how important this hearing is going to be. there are other states of course, still deciding whether or not trump should be on the ballot, and i think it's february 8th that the court will hear arguments. i suspect they will want to rule quickly so there isn't chaos on ballots across the country as nobody really knows whether or not donald trump should be on them, and that that will have a

big impact not just on whether or not trump's on the ballot, but depending on how they rule, it will help shape the narrative around whether or not donald trump deserves to be on the ballot. for example, they will say he should remain on the ballot, but they refuse to weigh in on the question of whether or not they violate the 14th amendment, whether or not they participated in insurrection. that's a very different thing from weighing in on whether or not he did do that. >> yeah, and i think most legal observers hope that it is not a fight for a decision, that it's a 9-0 decision one way or the other, but we'll see a lot of questions still there. katty, i wanted to go back to you and let's look at that poll showing that the overwhelming majority of americans say they will not vote for donald trump if he is convicted. it actually -- it suggests that everybody being, you know, being john madden basically, and being predictors of what's going on don't know what they're talking about.

right now in this ipsos/reuters poll, again, 58% of americans say they won't vote for donald trump if he's convicted of a felony, and the most important number there at least for me, what i'm looking at is 55% of independents will not vote for donald trump if he's a convicted felon. only 14 independents saying yes. >> yes, and if you look at the entrance polls in iowa, that reflects this too. only 30% of people who have caucused on monday night said they wouldn't vot for trump if he was convicted. will jack smith manage to get his trial date in march? will it be pushed back? or will it be wrapped up and have a potential conviction by november? what kind of impact will that make? donald trump is opting for a different strategy than he was a year ago. a year ago in may, for e. jean carroll's trial, he didn't even turn up. he's seen those polls all week.

that graph that steve kornacki has, you're looking at the dates where he's arrested for a trial or where the trial starlets and his approval ratings tick up and he now thinks, look. the more i'm in court, the more i misbehave in court and get attention in court, hat's going to help me. it might be a split thing. it might help him in the primary, but not in the general election in november, all of what he did yesterday in court drawing attention to the fact that he's in a court proceeding, and has been found liable -- maybe that actually will end up to hurt him and those people will stick to those numbers. >> as the old song goes, willie, second verse, same as the first. there's a reason republicans actually have a brain, have been worried about donald trump's impact on the general electorate since 2017. >> yeah. >> because they're, like, okay. the things he's doing right now,

in this case, going into courtrooms, making an ass of himself, trying to get a judge to throw him out of the courtroom, that helps him with 14% of voters in iowa, right? it hurts him with independents. it hurts him with suburban voters. it hurts him with swing voters. there's a reason donald trump has done the unthinkable, held onto a party while losing in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 e, 2021, 2022, 2023. that's because he plays to the cheap seats in his own party. there's absolutely thrilled when he's in court for raping a woman according to the judge, and the judge is going to have to throw him out because he's being so disruptive, and like a toddler, we get reports from lisa that he's banging his hands on the table. maybe. we don't know. maybe it's magic marker, but if it's blood, causing more problems to his hands. >> that's disregulated.

>> so here's a guy again, this plays really well for the 14%, and who knows? maybe 44%, 45% of the general election, but once again, they're setting themselves up for a loss. i'm trying to help him here. i'm trying to help republicans as i have for seven years. they're setting themselves up for another loss because as katty said, what works for the 14% hurts him as we see in this poll with almost 60% of americans. >> and what we saw yesterday, the tantrum in the courtroom, the reminders of everything that happened in this trial, the reminders that donald trump has been found liable as mitt romney said, for sexual assault, is what the biden campaign is counting on and urging patience. let this year play out. watch how the american public responds to man acting like a toddler trying to get throne out of a courtroom during the

penalty phase of his defamation suit. this is just the tip of the iceberg, jonathan lemire. we haven't gotten to the federal case or georgia or all the things he's going to be occupied doing, and as joe said, coming out of those courtrooms, posting on social media, ranting about judges, having nothing do with voters or people's lives or the future, only about him, and again, playing to his narrow electorate of fans. >> yeah. that's been the biden camp's case throughout. it may not be one silver bullet. they're not banking on just, like, a conviction let's say, but they think it'll be piece after piece after piece. just this mosaic of chaos that trump is creating again. it'll be a reminder to the american public we don't want to do that, that for, you know, that trump has become sort of background noise for us who live in this world each and every day. we're thinking about him, talking about him, and for most americans, they're not talking about america yet.

it might not come until spring, summer, early fall, but when people start locking in on it that they realize it is indeed trump versus biden again, even if they're not enthusiastically backing joe biden, they don't want to do this with donald trump. that's why the biden campaign has felt confident all along about where they stand with the independent swing voters, the same voters who will be swayed by their arguments about democracy and abortion rights and they feel those are the same people who will be turned off by what they're seeing from trump and once they start hearing trump each and every day again, and for some, it won't be to the republican convention, but once they do, they'll realize he's gotten that much more erratic. his rhetoric has become much more incendiary, and we don't want to do that, and the democrats now, their focus is making sure their own base turns out. they think that's the bigger concern, but they feel like this. what trump's doing right now is helping him in the gop primaries. it's only going to hurt him come november. >> this is just the tip of the

iceberg. lisa, what happens from here in this defamation case? yesterday was a day where donald trump picked a fight with the judge, banging his hands on the table, talking loudly while e. jean carroll was testifying. the judge had to pull alina habba into side bar a couple of times to explain how this works. what does she say? >> she has about 20 to 30 minutes of cross-examination of e. jean carroll, and then she'll go through a brief redirection from her own attorneys, and then this woman specializes in social media and the cost of reputation damage. she will project for the jury how much money donald trump has cost e. jean carroll in terms of the damage to her reputation and as she testified yesterday, people weren't dying to write to an advice columnist who had been disgraced by the former

president. they'll talk about the havoc he's wreaked in her life. coming up, will the house sink an immigration deal to help save his job? where the republicans is turning the screws on their own parties later. "morning joe" is coming right back. later. "morning joe" is coming right back right now get a free footlong at subway.

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wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now. the senate reached an agreement last night to speed up the votes on a government spending bill to avoid a partial shutdown that is set to trigger tomorrow evening. senate majority leader chuck schumer announced yesterday the upper chamber will vote on a measure today in addition to three republican-led amendments that are likely to fail.

the legislation will fund the government through early march as appropriators work to finalize a long-term funding solution. the house has until tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. to get the legislation to president biden's desk. if they fail, the government will partially shut down at midnight. meanwhile, president biden met with congressional leadership yesterday at the white house to discuss ongoing concerns over the border, ukraine, and israel. senate majority leader chuck schumer and minority leader mitch mcconnell expressed optimism a bipartisan senate deal on the border is imminent, but speaker mike johnson continues to push house republican demands for hardline changes at the border that stand no chance of passing in the democratic senate. that comes as senate republicans are warning their house colleagues not to miss the moment. >> to those who think that if

president trump wins which i hope he does, that we can get a better deal. you want to get this kind of border security without granting a pathway to citizenship. it's really unheard of. so if you think you're going to get a better deal next time in '25 if president trump's president, democrats will be expecting a pathway to citizenship for that in my view. >> but i will say this. any idea that somehow if we get majorities next year and we get the white house, that this gets done with a republican majority in the senate, i think doesn't understand the democrats. the democrats will not give us -- will not give us anything close to this if we have to get 60 votes in the united states senate in a republican majority. we have a unique opportunity here, and the timing's right to

do this. >> john thune, also mitch mcconnell and leaders of the senate, republicans in the senate saying to the house, this is the best deal we're ever going to get on border security. in fact, it's the best, strongest deal ever done on border security, and senate republicans are working with senate democrats to make that deal. so you've got the senate republicans, senate democrats, the white house all agreeing on a tough border deal, all agreeing to aid israel, all agreeing to aid ukraine, and you've got mike johnson and some radicals that are in the house -- by the way, house republicans have passed fewer bills than any congress. talk about a do-nothing congress. any congress in a generation,

and with mike johnson, you've got a guy who's constantly on the issue of funding ukraine, be pro-vladimir putin. so you've got a pro-putin speaker who has voted no on all ukrainian aid, a pro-putin speaker who now is killing a bill that's the toughest border security bill ever, and i'm just asking why? is it because he's pro-putin? is it because he's afraid ukraine is going to get aid, aid that he's voted against time and time again. if he had his way, vladimir putin would already be to kyiv because he's voted against all funding to defend ukraine against russian aggression, and so now he's also killing a bill that would stop what's happening on the southern border, the chaos on the southern border.

again, you've got to ask why. if you've gotten republicans saying, this is toughest bill ever, and we will never get a tougher bill on border security. mike johnson is still killing it? come on, mikey. come on. come on. are you planning to go to, like, st. petersburg this summer and see the white palisades? i mean, this doesn't make any sense at all. >> he doesn't want biden to look good in any way. >> well, i don't know. >> so -- >> so that's what we're saying. if you've got a guy that voted against ukrainian aid time and time and time again, and ukraine now is at a crisis point where they desperately need this aid, or vladimir putin, in fact, will make great progress on the battlefield because that's what we're hearing from ukraine. that's what we're hearing from military experts everywhere. you got to ask yourself, wait a second. so this guy's saying no to the toughest border security bill

ever, ever, and he's got got his own republican colleagues in the senate saying, it will get no better than this. you tell me, is that logical? doesn't seem like it's about the border. maybe it's about letting vladimir putin take all of ukraine. that's going to be a hell of a campaign ad come this fall. house republicans help vladimir putin conquer ukraine. lots of luck with that one. let's bring in congressional -- willie, i mean, you know, i'm sorry, but this makes no sense, and when something doesn't make sense, there's a reason it doesn't make sense. when you got lindsey graham saying, this is the best deal -- >> publicly. >> -- you're ever going to get, going to a podium and saying that. >> right. >> when you have john thune saying that, a rock solid conservative saying that. when you have james langford, a

guy who's been critical of the biden administration every day on the border, and it's james langford that's helping put together this tough, conservative border security bill, and then you got the speaker of the house and these -- i don't know. are they pro-putin republicans? i'm sure they -- a lot of these people voted against ukraine aid time and time again, but they're saying no, no, no. we're not going to give you ukraine aid because we're not going to vote for this border security bill, and yet it's the republicans in the senate who are saying, this is the best bill we will ever get. makes no sense. >> the answer might be something that speaker johnson actually said out loud yesterday which is that donald trump is running the house of representatives. he's been talking constantly -- he says to donald trump, donald trump doesn't want to give what he thinks is a win to joe biden, and speaker johnson is following orders from the boss, and republicans in the house are following orders from the boss. >> you're saying, willie, donald trump is helping vladimir putin

here? why, that's just shocking. >> well, vladimir putin certainly appreciates it. we know that from past history and we know he's going to keep this war going at least until he sees what happens in the 2024 election, but you're right, joe. i'm watching this play out and thinking back to not that long ago, certainly to when you were in congress, to a time when the point was to get things done, the point was to sit down with other people from the other side, and you don't get purely what you want. you don't get 100% of what you want. it's called a negotiation. you get some of what you want, just enough of what you want. >> right. >> you give a little there where you come to the table as the adults in the senate are doing, joe, and you get a deal. it appears they're really close to getting something that as you said, would be significant to the crisis at the border, but the house is rejecting that because pretty plainly now they don't want to give a win. it could be construed to joe biden. >> a deal that's a lot closer to conservative james langford's position and conservative john thune's position than it is the

majority of the democratic caucus in the senate or the house. let's bring in right now congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany. we won't call him pro-putin be anti-freedom forces in the house. you've got mike johnson and a lot of others against ukrainian aid saying this is not going to happen. we're not going to pass a border security bill. meanwhile, you've got the senate, the republicans and democrats, mitch mcconnell going, you think we're going to have a deal next week? what's going on there? >> yeah. i think that everything you guys just outlined really speaks to all of the different competing factions at play here, and perhaps most prescient and

precedent are these votes to oust him as with former speaker mccarthy as well as a potential government shutdown where he needs the support of the majority of his conference, in order to get the short-term spending deal done that the senate is going to vote on today and make it more difficult for the house today, or torment -- tomorrow to avert a government shutdown tomorrow. that's what you heard from mike johnson yesterday, kind of pandering to those hardliners, people like marjorie taylor greene that said if johnson basically cedes to the biden administration and this group of bipartisan senators who have hashed out this border deal that would expand detention powers and limit the ability for people who have crossed the border to seek asylum, that they will follow through with their threats to issue a motion to vacate and get rid of him, and that, you know, it overall it speaks to the broader

predicament that mike johnson has faced the second he took this job, which is that this is an impossible conference to work with and get things done because at the end of the day, there is a significant group of people who do not want to get anything done, and who have said in different forms over the past year and a half that they're okay with that, and that a government shutdown is worth the fight at the end of the day if they're not getting the spending cuts that they claim johnson agreed to and right now, according to a framework that he hashed out with schumer last month, it is really only $16 billion overall in spending cuts. coming up, a live report from new hampshire now less than a week away from the primary there. nbc's ali vitali joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." i s straight ahead on "morning joe." , we brought in a reverse auctioneer. which is apparently a thing. mint mobile, unlimited premium wireless.

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coming up, a conversation with the iconic jodie foster.

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don't you ever get this feeling that sometimes you just want to disappear? just walk out and never stop? >> this is the last one. nobody ever really leaves. >> i don't know what the hell they're doing together. thought they hated each other. >> you think i want to work with you? >> i do, actually. yeah. we've got five bodies, frozen into a giant block of flesh.

no answers. >> we found this. >> i've seen that before. years ago. >> you know the stuff that's happening in this town. >> my job is to keep everyone safe. ♪♪ >> dead bodies, weird circumstances. you need to get the [ bleep ] under control. >> that was a chilling preview of the fourth season of hbo's hit show "true detective." in the latest season the critically acclaimed series follows two detectives in alaska with a complicated history working together as they risk their lives to solve a murder case that is equally disturbing as it is mysterious. joining us now, the two stars of "true detective: night country," jodie foster and kaylee reese. thanks to you both for being

here. >> thank you. >> so jodie, you're also an executive producer on this season. >> yes. >> it's been five years since the last season of "true detective," and forgive me, nearly 50 years since you've done television. >> really? >> i'm sorry to be the one to tell. >> you oh my god. >> what was the appeal that it was time to go back? >> well, listen. tv and streaming is where it's at. that's where the narrative is right now. it's an exciting place to be. i have been directing a little bit on streaming, and some stories require a longer amount of time. so i was excited about coming back. once i read the script, i knew that was it for me and meeting issa lopez, our writer, show runner, and extraordinary. she's the voice of the project. >> what drew you in particular to this role? >> just the story, as jodie mentioned. i was captivated and wanted to know what happened, where she was going with the story and the

cast she's constructed was just amazing. to have this as my third job to get this opportunity was a pretty big deal. it was a blessing. >> let's turn to a clip where your characters are discussing the possible explanation behind the recent murders you're investigating. >> what's your explanation for her tongue popping up six years after she died? and what about the men on the ice? why'd they go out there? oh, come on. don't give me that voodoo, e.t., cosmic [ bleep ]. >> whatever, magic. there's a real explanation for this. >> all right. i'm listening. >> we're just not asking the right questions. >> we'll find it.

>> tell us a little more about the plot, but also about the relationship between these two. >> the plot followed a true detective kind of story line, just mystery. where you think you have an answer, you are completely wrong. you might have to look somewhere else. don't blink,because there's clues everywhere. the relationship between navarro and denvers, at one point they were really good friends. they have a lot of love and respect for each other. they hate each other. they work really, really well together, and that's something they both hate. >> the first season of "true

detective" the relationship was so defining. location plays a big role here too. set in alaska. tell us where you actually filmed it? >> we actually filmed in iceland. we couldn't shoot in alaska. there were no roads, winter too harsh. couldn't have had more fun in iceland, great live music, great food, wonderful crews. i could live there, i don't know. except the wind is the problem, not even the cold. >> were there challenges filming in that sort of cold. >> there was. it was a character within itself. it helped to be in those real elements like these characters would be. but the wind is something you can't plan for. >> true. >> an important piece of this story is the idea of violence against indigenous women. i know that's a cause you care deeply about. tell us a little bit about your own connection to it and why

it's so important to have what is such an overlooked story line be represented on the screen. >> my advocacy work i do is something i feel as a mixed indigenous woman as having a warrior spirit, as being a voice for the voiceless. these women that have gotten murdered and are missing and have no authorities looking for them is something that needs to be put on mainstream media. it's an opportunity to be in front of an audience that wouldn't normally hear about these things. we need more information to stop this epidemic from happening. it happens every day to people we don't know. it gets really complicated. this is really important for me to highlight this epidemic for our people being stolen from us. >> 84.3% of american indian and

alaska native women have experienced violence in their lifetime, truly staggering and under reported. it's two women detectives. talk to us about that dynamic, why that's important to see. >> season one, which is extraordinary, we all love it and we're honored to fall in their footsteps. it was pretty much about toxic masculinity and how maculiity affected them and the inherent misogyny and all that. they're very complex characters, very complicated, which think is unusual for this type of film to see that in two women. that being said, the one thing that's different about them is they really can relate to the victims as opposed to in this paternalistic way or my sister or my daughter. these characters feel that empathy that only women can

feel. >> it's a gripping show. it was time for "true detective" to come back. episode 2 of "true detective" north country. we'll be right back. " north country. we'll be right back.

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if paid in full in 18 months. helping mothers of grooms look their best. it's one more way aspen dental is in your corner. head to head, trump and biden, it's going to be another nail-biter of an election. on a good day he's up by two points. that's margin of error. we're going to hold our breath up until then.

i'm in every one of those same general election polls. i defeat biden by up to 17 points. >> think of the field day biden would have with haley or desanctimonious. look at the polls. she's getting killed. she uses that one poll. it's filthy dirty. it's like, i'm up. she would get killed, but they want her badly. >> nikki haley and donald trump talking about polling last night in new hampshire. on tuesday voters there will cast their ballots in the first primary for the republican nomination. it's almost new hampshire. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle and katty kay are back with us. with just five days to go until the new hampshire primary, donald trump travelled to the granite state yesterday after spending the day in a new york city courtroom for the second day in a row.

while carroll was on the stand, the judge threatened to throw trump out of the courtroom for talking too loudly to his attorney. trump responded, i would love it, to which the judge replied, i know you would, because you just can't control yourself in this circumstance. he's incredible. at the rally last night in new hampshire, trump sharpened his attacks against nikki haley in a meandering speech that was all over the place. >> you know, we have more liquid gold and wealth under our feet than any other nation. we have more liquid gold, oil and gas, more liquid gold. well, i just met non-liquid gold. you know where it was? iowa. it's called corn.

it's non-liquid. you have more non-liquid gold. they said what is that? i said corn. they said we love that idea. that's a pretty cool thought, isn't it? that's a nickname. we came up with a new couple of words for corn. we're also going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your political beliefs what they do. they want to debank you and we're going to debank -- think of this. they want to take away your rights. they want to take away your country. the things they're doing, all electric cars, give me a break. nikki haley supported rhino paul ryan's 2011 plan to destroy medicare, the same plan that led to democrat ads which was a disastrous ad showing republicans wheeling granny off the cliff. do you remember that? that was paul ryan throwing granny off the cliff. we're not doing that. we're not taking care of our grannies like that.

speaking of grannies, tomorrow i have a funeral for the mother who was a great woman of melania, our first lady. >> wow. that is some segue. quote, they want to debank you, and we're going to debank. that's from donald trump. truly, the reason you play that is not truly for entertainment's sake. it is the side by side of them talking about joe biden being too old and senile, whatever they're throwing out. if you watch any one of donald trump's long rallies, if that was a member of your family, you would start talking about if it was time to check them in somewhere, if it was time to tweak medication, whatever it is. this is someone who wants to be president of the united states. >> you'd ask for his driver's license certainly, not safe behind the wheel anymore.

the segue from grannies off the clips to donald trump's dead mother-in-law and extraordinarily erratic behavior. americans haven't listened to donald trump for a while. once they start tuning in and hearing big moments when he starts having campaign rallies in the heart of a general election and they hear all of that, that's going to defang what republicans think is one of their best arguments, that joe biden is too old for the job. joe biden doesn't do that. polling suggests that voters might have questions about his age, but donald trump is only a couple of years younger and seemingly unhinged. >> to the point, that speech went on for longer than an hour, i'm told. i'm also told talking late last night with someone in new hampshire who was at the speech

that people started drifting out at about 45 minutes into the speech. i assume if you were really close to him and he's not running for president and he was doing that that you would go up and tap him on the shoulder gently after he concluded speaking whatever nonsense he's speaking and you'd ask for the car keys and say you can no longer drive because you're in danger of driving right through the plate glass window at dunkin donuts. that's what you would do. >> non-liquid gold, debanking. on a more serious note here's what donald trump has been posting on his truthocial account in the last few hours. quote, aresint of the united states must have full immunity, without which it would be impossible for him or her to properly function. any mistake would be m with almost certain indictment by opposing party at term end. even that cross the line

must fall under total immunity, or it will be years of trauma trying to determine good from bad. there must be certainty. as a federal appeals court weighs whether trump is immune from federal charges related to the january 6th insurrection. presidents could assassinate political rivals without being charged. i think we don't usually read large swaths of his truth social postings, but it's important to hear the argument he's making, which is, i should have immunity to do whatever i want to do, no matter how awful, no matter how badly it crosses the line. >> this is deadly serious and extremely important. this is him trying to justify, reverse engineer a not guilty from the trials he's facing but also trying to give himself license to break whatever law he

wants in a possible second term, to the point of even assassination. when donald trump tells us who he is or what he's going to do, we should believe him. it feels like a bit of a confession acknowledging that he broke the law while he was president previously, but it also is a real warning as to what he might want to do if he's elected again. >> i think that's right. it's also an indication of how a second trump administration might use the justice department. i've heard in my reporting with members of the trump administration that they have this plan to make sure he is totally blanketly covered by immunity for whatever he may want to do in a second term, but also they want to follow the doj into the white house's purview to make sure the scales are tipped in their favor. when you say to the administration what does this

set up for the future of america and democracy, because the question of what that truth social post says is then does that mean that any president is also then going to seek seek retribution against his predecessor. we ris gting into a cycle where every president claims they have totally blanket immunity and every single president then tries to prosecute their predecessor for whatever it is they want to do. the system doesn't really work like that. even people in the trump administration kind of acknowledge that folding the justice department into the white house in order to be able to seek retribution for donald trump against his enemies would mean democrats would do that the next time they were elected. it's definitely a departure from what america has had up until now. >> joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, is nbc's ali vitali.

when he's not defaming, he's campaigning. so the question is does anyone in new hampshire consider donald trump's behavior in court and behavior toward a woman that he's been found liable of sexually abusing and defaming and now he's back in court because he defames her again, does anybody find that to be vile? >> reporter: certainly you look at the exit polls in iowa and they're not talking about the downside of the court hearings that he's facing. instead they're saying that makes them feel he's still qualified to be president of the united states. i'll continue asking those questions here in new hampshire. i do think there is a certain level of sadness when you hear that what you're seeing in a courtroom is not translating into the minds of voters as a bad thing, because any time you're in court after you've been found liable for sexual assault, that's never a good thing.

but the thing we're watching the candidates themselves focus on is each other. the conversation you guys have been having here about questions of donald trump's acuity, i do think that's something that's going to get a boost from nikki haley, because that's what we're seeing her put on the air in ads. we're seeing her continue to try to pair donald trump and joe biden together in the minds of voters. whether or not that's going to work, we'll see in places like new hampshire, but certainly that's a new line of thinking as she's trying to underscore the idea this is a two-person race between her and trump. president biden met with congressional leadership yesterday at the white house to discuss on going concerns over the border, ukraine and israel while senate majority leader chuck schumer and minority leader mitch mcconnell expressed optimism on a bipartisan deal,

speaker mike johnson continues to push house republican demands for hard-line changes. let's bring in nbc news senior national political reporter sahil kapur. there's a deal that even republican senators are saying, come on, man, let's do something. >> reporter: that's right. senate negotiators are closer than ever to finalize a deal to toughen immigration and asylum laws. party leaders feel it could come to the floor as early as next week for votes. it would be tied to aid for ukraine and israel which has languished. even before the senate votes on it, however, some house republicans are angling to kill it. some are saying the deal doesn't go far enough and they're in no mood to compromise policy for their ideal vision for border security. they say openly they don't want to give president biden a victory in an election year. senate republicans, meanwhile, are warning them not to go down

this road, that if they try to play political games with immigration, it will backfire. listen to lindsey graham. >> to those who think that if president trump wins, which i hope he does, that we can get a better deal, you won't. you've got to get 60 votes in the united states senate. to my republican friends, to get this kind of border security without granting a pathway to citizenship is really unheard of. >> reporter: that position by lindsey graham was echoed by top republican mitch mcconnell yesterday as well as deputy john thune. both say now is the time to do this. this is the most conservative immigration deal republicans have gotten in a long time and are likely to get any time in the foreseeable future. mike johnson is facing pressure from his hard liners as well as conservative media. he went on fox news. anchor laura ingram said trump

just called her and was against this deal and said it's not necessary to secure the border. let's play what johnson had to say in response. >> president trump is not wrong. he and i have been talking about this pretty frequently. i talked to him night before last about the same subject. >> and there's yet another wrinkle here that johnson is facing pressure from at least one of his hard liners, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene who told me yesterday she will personally file a motion to vacate and force a vote in the house to overthrow speaker johnson from his job i he funds ukraine aid in any form or fashion. she said if he cuts a deal to fund ukraine, no matter what immigration provisions it contains, she said, quote, we can't nd ukraine. that would be a reason to vacate, unquote. of course, marjorie taylor greene is loyal to trump. even more important, donald trump is not even president, and yet his position here could determine whether this deal

ultimately lives or dies in the house. >> let's bring in the ranking member of the house intelligence committee, democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. you were part of these meetings. take us inside and help us understand. you have republicans like lindsey graham and senator langford over on the senate side, not exactly liberals, saying to the house this is the best deal we're going to get. it's the best deal that's come along in a long time. frankly, it's a little more friendly to the conservative side of the argument. take the deal, house republicans. why aren't they taking the deal? >> it was a remarkable hour and a half in the cabinet room with the president and about 20 members of the congress and senate. for an hour and a half everybody couldn't have agreed more. we were violently agreeing with each other on the urgency of

funding ukraine. i heard the president at least two or three times saying i will do a big border deal. i used to negotiate in the private sector. this is a deal ripe to happen. what is about to happen is as clear as day. the senate is going to pass a bill, and it will be the first immigration border bill in decades. by the way, as lindsey graham said and as mitch mcconnell said, it is a better deal than you will get if you own the house and the senate and the white house, the republicans. then one man makes a fascinating and hugely consequential decision. that man is speaker johnson. here's why. there is a huge majority in the house for that deal, i know it. at least half of the republicans and probably close to all of the democrats. so johnson says, i can either get something done on ukraine, which the vast majority of people say is important. we can get a historic border deal done, or i can piss off marjorie taylor greene or the heritage foundation or donald

trump, in which case i may lose my job. i don't think i've ever seen a moment working here in which the tradeoffs between the good to the united states, the world and the western alliance, hangs on the fate of one man to decide whether he is going to put all of that ahead of his own political survival. >> i know that national security advisor jake sullivan and other top national security figures have walked through the need to support ukraine asap and what would happen if the united states doesn't. give us your fears, if you will, if this deal does fall through, if the speaker decides he can't get this done, if he is too concerned about his own job. what do you think the repercussions would be in eastern europe and beyond? >> a week or two from now johnson says the democrats and the president wouldn't go far enough on immigration. that will be him caving to marjorie taylor greene and donald trump and to a minority of republican members in the

house. here's what happens next. over time, not overnight, but over time putin makes progress in ukraine. i don't know if that means he takes the country or just a lot more of the country. president xi in china sees that and the lesson for president xi is that the americans can be counted upon to be tough for about six months and then they go away. what does he think with respect to taiwan? terrible lesson learned for president xi. the iranians, who are right now destabilizing the world, see a lesson in how the united states cuts and runs when things get tough. so if speaker johnson chooses to walk away from this with no border, no immigration deal and nothing for ukraine, we live in a fabulously more dangerous world, including by the way, and i'm willing to acknowledge to republicans that having uncontrolled flows of people into this country is a national security risk. if johnson chooses that path, we live in a much more dangerous world and much more dangerous country. >> whether you like it or not,

you're kind of representative of a specific type of member of the house of representatives. you've got a pretty good job in the private sector, then suddenly you decide, hey, maybe i could bring something to the country by representing my congressional district in washington. you run for congress and you win and you have brought several things to the country in terms of representation. now you're sitting there and you're part of a congress that is worse than being dysfunctional. you're part of a congress where the slim majority is now an obstacle to getting anything done at all. how does that make you feel about your choices to return for congress and being a member of congress? >> i will tell you this. even in the worst moments, it is an honor and a privilege. i thank my voters every day for putting the trust in me that they do, particularly at these very, very dangerous times. let's be clear. this isn't necessarily a matter of background.

there are some people here, you know, who are here perhaps for different reasons, to be famous on social media, but the one thing i would point out to you what's different today, what causes marjorie taylor greene to say she will file a motion to vacate against the speaker if he moves on ukraine. the answer is donald trump. we could spend two hours talking about what donald trump did or didn't do, but i think even his most fervent supporters would say that donald trump is largely out for donald trump, right? as donald trump looks at the ukraine border deal, do you think he's actually weighing the nuances of aid to ukraine and timing and exactly how border security should be run? of course not. he's trying to advance his own personal interest and frankly if possibility of his own reelection. i would just hope, love him or hate them, that you understand where his fundamental interests lie. they do not lie with the national security of the united states or the preservation of ukraine or keeping china out of taiwan.

they lie very plainly with himself. >> many of your colleagues have said the same thing about the risks around ukraine, even to the extent japan perhaps might decide it needs its own nuclear armory because the american nuclear security umbrella seems to have holes in it if america abandons ukraine. how will democrats be able to counter the message from those republicans who are blocking this deal that democrats are just soft on immigration? i hear what you're saying. we read the details of the bill. it is a tough bill, the toughest republicans could hope to get. i can see it still being spun as the democrats were the ones who wouldn't go further on immigration and that's why america abandoned ukraine. >> first of all, let's remember who decided to link to two. we could just be voting on ukraine right now and it would pass. but the republican speaker, driven largely by his fire

breathing fringe and trump, said we're going to link these two things. that opens the possibility that you get neither ukraine or border. i heard the president of the united states at least three times yesterday say i will do a big border deal. i heard chuck schumer say i'm a new yorker. new york has a problem with people coming into the city. the democratic willingness is absolutely there, including to probably stretch in ways that will cause the president to take some fire from the progressive wing. the willingness is there, and there should be no doubt about if this is killed it wasn't because there was broad support for a deal. it's because the speaker was forced by a number of his members to kowtow to the most extreme element of his party. >> the president and lindsey graham can agree on this. >> and mitch mcconnell and john

thune and mike turner. i could stand here for an hour and list people who are desperate to get this deal done. if you looked at the list of people who are saying, by god, do this deal, maybe with the exception of lindsey graham, that list is of republicans who have maintained some sense of themselves and their ideology and the history of their party going back to reagan in contrast to the chaos and self-servingness of the maga fringe here. >> ranking member of the house intelligence committee, democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," a combination of financial and geopolitical risks threaten an otherwise strong outlook for the u.s. economy in the coming years. we'll talk to dom chu about the warning of caution from the head of the nation's largest bank. plus, the message from the ultra rich to world leaders

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there was one positive thing to come out of iowa, and that was this interview on news max with maga pundit dick morris. >> your thoughts? >> i think trump is going to score a huge victory. i think the media is going to try to downplay it because -- [ laughter ] >> weird. it does explain news max's

slogan, all the news that's fit to be interrupted by a sad man in his underwear. >> we laugh, but in fairness barnacle does that all the time, uses right behind the camera, tank top on. >> he was in his underwear. at the world economic forum in davos yesterday, jp morgan chase ceo jamie dimon expressed caution. >> i think it's a mistake to assume everything is hunky dory. i'm a little more on the cautious side. >> we'll see how that plays out. let's bring in dom chu. obviously, jamie dimon's voice is one that people listen to on wall street.

what's your take on that? >> dimon has long been a proponent of that cautious approach to things. some may recall that back in the summer of 2022 the ceo of america's most valuable bank was warning investors about bracing for what he called an economic hurricane. at that time, the concern was expectations for tighter monetary policy from the fed, also the ripple effects from the war in ukraine amongst other things. this time, dimon laid out some of the biggest concerns for the next couple of years, and threematically it's somewhat similar. ukraine remains top of mind. now he's adding in geopolitical concerns between israel and hamas and the war there and houthi attacks on vessels in the red sea. by the way, ceo david solomon of goldman sachs also weighed in

from davos, saying that even if your factor out the geopolitical risks, the market feels better now than last year, but he's concerned about the risks tied to growing u.s. debt level. sticking with davos, some of the wealthiest attendees at this year's world economic forum are renewing their calls for elected officials and politicians around the world to tax their extreme wealth. in an open letter to political leaders who gathered at the event, over 250 signatories with wealth that categorizes them as millionaires or billionaires, the letter titled "proud to pay more" as signatories including abigail disney, valerie rockefeller, simon peg, actor brian cox, who played logan roy in "succession." they said that will not alter our standard of living or harm

our children, but it will turn private wealth into investment for our common democratic future. one other top story is job cuts have been moving across silicon valley and tech firms broadly over the last year. tech giant google said that more job cuts are coming in 2024. in a memo sent to employees on wednesday, the ceo said that the company has ambitious goals in areas like artificial intelligence and that in order to make significant strides in that campaign, tough choices will have to be made. google did embark on a slate of job cuts just last year. several hundred jobs have been cut in the early stages of this year, mostly affecting engineering, hardware, advertising roles. those are the top headlines. back to you. >> as they announced more job cuts to come, shares of alphabet up 58% on the market last year.

dom chu, thanks so much. up next, a look at stories making the front pages across the country this morning, including a legal victory for free speech in the state of texas. l victory for free speech in the state of texas.

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diseases in surrounding communities. the suit also alleges that one company concealed years of research demonstrating the harmful effects of exposure to these chemicals. the "san francisco chronicle" leads with new data showing that last year was the deadliest on record for drug overdoses in the city. in 2023 san francisco recorded 806 deadly drug overdoses. fentanyl played a major role in these numbers with traces of the powerful opioid found in four out of five victims. the austin american statesman reports that an appeals court has upheld a temporary block on a controversial book ban in texas. the bill known as the reader act would require companies who sell books to school libraries to rate their books based on sexual content and would forbid schools from purchasing books deemed, quote, sexually explicit.

a federal appeals court agreed with a lower court ruling which found the law unconstitutional. the arkansas democrat gazette is highlighting a new push from the biden administration to lower the cost of banking overdraft fees. the proposal would lower the standard $35 charge for people who withdraw more than the available funds in their account to a range between $3 and $14. this ties into biden's broader attack on so-called junk fees that has overwhelming bipartisan backing. and coming up on "morning joe" -- >> he knows the target. >> i'm not involved with anybody. >> don't lie to me! >> rule number one. >> that was a look at the film "american star" about an assassin's final assignment.

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and those who are running from something. >> i don't live here. >> and you don't look like a tourist. >> that is a look at the new film "american star" about an assassin named wilson who is on the final mission of his career in the canary islands. you can see it in theaters or rent it at home starting next friday january 26th. joining us now is the man who plays wilson, ian mcshane. >> thank you for having me. >> tell us about this film that's been kind of a long time coming with a director you worked with previously, got together, came up with the script. not a bad place to shoot a film, it looks like. >> he live there is. part of the legend of this place, fierce wind island in the canaries is this american ship the american star which is a

luxury liner from the '30s. this is sort of the premise for the metaphor of the man's life. we prefer to say he's a government operative, not a hired killer. he used to be in the army. it's a gig that goes wrong. the first rule of a man like that is you go in, do the job and leave. he's forced to say for bad intel. that's where his mistake starts. he meets a few people, gets interested in the place and knows he's committed his own cardinal sin in a sense. and more ensues. >> there's a good bit of action in here from what i can see. >> yeah. >> you kick some butt. >> a little bit. can i do something to somebody instead of being charming and smart? >> ian, you've done so much in your career.

what has to be there for you to take a job? >> i don't know. english actors, we like to work. i like to go from stage to theater to tv. i worked with him before on an undiscovered movie called "hollow point" five years ago. he said i want to work with you again. so did i. and we came up with this idea. it took us four years to get the script together. i did a movie called "jawbone" with producer michael yacht. i showed him the script. we had this window of financial opportunity. so we made it in that time period of spring 2022 and here we are. it's lovely making an independent film because there's nobody over your shoulder.

we lived in the hotel we filmed at, which is one of those all-in european hotels. you wear a bracelet if you can drink all day or have breakfast or whatever. it's all inclusive. >> certainly it seems as if the island itself is a real character in the film. >> it's part of it. he's attracted to the place. he has to stay for a day and he likes it. he makes the mistake of being involved with somebody who approaches him and unexpected things happen. we have the great french actress who came with us and plays the girl's mother for a couple of days. it was a civilized place. you get up every morning, have breakfast, go to work. when the sun went down, we'd get together with the crew, have dinner. after five weeks, we went home. instead of charging around with

17 people looking after your every move. they think actors are children anyway. >> somebody with a headset holding your hand. >> there's always somebody following you everywhere. >> mr. mcshane is moving. >> he's on the move. where is he going? >> we were talking in the break about the wonderful show "dead wood." it go all the emmys and the praise, as did you. does that feel like a lifetime ago when that hbo said oh my gosh, tv can be this good? there's so much and streaming has changed everything. >> then hbo was the only sort of game in town in a sense. they had this sort of reputation they were good at producing classy material. we were lucky enough to be part of that. can you believe it's 22 years?

it's ridiculous. i mean, we came in at a funny time. "deadwood" was sort of a revisionist western. it's a story of the beginning of america. it's a shame it didn't go on for longer, but the three seasons we had were the three seasons we had. we got a chance to work with all these fabulous actors and everybody. really we all did pretty well together in the three years. it was one of the best periods in my life work wise apart from driving up the ones of best periods of my life, i think, work wise, and apart from driving up the 401 every day. that was a bit of a pain in the ass, which everybody has to go through. >> we can tell you prefer to stay in the hotel you're shooting, not get in the car and have to drive anywhere. it's such a pleasure to have you

here. you can see american star in theaters or stream it at home beginning next friday, a week from tomorrow january 26th. thanks again, nice to see you. >> thank you, gentlemen, good to see you. still ahead, the white house is apologizing for a snarky statement put out by the dnc. we'll explain next on "morning joe." ♪♪ because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. need a fast and secure way to take payments? we've got you covered. how about card

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and before we go today, the white house has apologized to former arkansas governor asa hutchinson for a democratic national committee statement released following his withdrawal from the 2024 gop primary race. hutchinson ended his long shot bid for the republican presidential nomination on tuesday after a poor showing in the iowa caucuses on monday night. dnc press secretary sarah finau ta tee ka responded to hutchinson's decision in a

statement that reads, this news comes as a shock to those of us who could have sworn he had already dropped out. at her press briefing yesterday, white house press secretary karine jean-pierre said the dnc statement did not reflect president biden's views. >> president biden has deep respect for governor hutchinson and admires the race that he ran. the president knows him to be a man of principle who cares about our country and has a strong record of public service. this morning the chief of staff here, jeff siets called the governor to convey this and apologized for the statement that did not represent the president's views. >> all right, hutchinson posted on social media saying the call from the white house was not necessary, but he still appreciated. we can disagree without demonizing. for sure. anyone who steps up to serve at a time like this we respect. all right, time now for final

thoughts this morning. katty kay, i'll start with you. >> okay, so that's my favorite story of the day, not that the dnc was crass enough to put out that statement but that jeff had the good old fashioned politeness to call and apologize. that's what we all want politics to be. >> all right, for willie, joe la mere, and me, that's it for "morning joe." ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. final break.