area. but they do perform rescue missions. it maybe going beyond what texas thinks border patrol should be doing as they bring migrants in, process them, and then give them court dates where texas has a bit more draconian view of how the migrants should be treated. >> thank you so much. that wraps up things for me today. thank you for the privilege of your time. i'll see you tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. deadline white house starts rite now. hey, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. free from the antic and the temper tantrums by the ex-president, the a. jean carroll defamation trial daelt with an important question. how much should one of the world's most powerful men pay

for his dangerous rhetoric. e. jean carroll was back on the stand today, first under cross-examination by trump's attorney, then under redirect examination by her attorney. team trump suggested that carroll actually benef from her accusation. abc news reports the defense suggested that carroll craved attention, took on trump to revive her flagging career, and relish the verdict in an earlier trial known as carroll 2. it established trump was liable for sexually abusing and defaming her. did the verctn your opinion provide you with bigger status in new york? itvide me with -- you have continued to publicize every lawsuit you had had agait president trump. yes, carroll responded, because wanted people to know that a woman can speak up and win a trial. i wanted people to know. i'm 80. i don't want to be quiet. it's not right to make a woman be quiet. it's gone on for too long. during redirect, carroll

countered that despite all the notary tie s gned, she wants nothing more than to get her life back. quote, would you prefer to have the reputation you have now with all those twitter followers or the reputation you had before june 2019? carroll's attorney asked. she responded. she testified that, quote, it could cost up to $12.1 million to implement a campaign that could change the strongly held attitudes of people who likel believe trump. she is said her analysis found the damage of trump's statements at issue in this case was severe to her, carroll's reputation as a journalist, and the cost to repair it are considerable. that's where we start today with former prosecutor andrew weisman. he was in the courtroom for most of today. plus first amendment scholar ra knelt jones.

and molly john-fast is a special correspondent for vanity fair. andrew, let's start with you. you were in the room today. what did you make of e. jean carroll on the stand? >> she's a very effective witness. and just remember that in this trial, the judge has instructed the jury that her allegation that she was sexually assaulted and defamed are no longer just allegations. they are facts this the jury has to ccept. so as you mentioned in your opening, this is really about damages and the amount of damages. i would just try to divide that into different buckets of damages that e. jean carroll had talked about. there's emotional damage, that's the effect on her of two statements made by donald trump while he was president of the united states.

i stress that because that's what e. jean carroll pointed to as to how much more harm there is to her when it's coming from somebody who is the sitting president of the united states. then there's reputational damage, that is something you alluded to in your opening. and finally, there's punitive damages. so there's all different aspects of types of damages. and my big take away from the defense attack in this case is basically you brought this on yourself by coming forward. it was quite remarkable in this day in age to have the sort of, you know what, you should have just kept quiet and then you wouldn't have had anything to coplain about. that's simply not the law and i would hope for the women and men on the jury that is soundly rejected as an argument.

>> that argument feels so disdidn't. here's more reporting from what haened today. thiss during redirect. regardhe tweets she received after she went public but befe trufr's denial, c rot's attorney asked did a of those tweets accuse you of being a paid democratic operative. no, carroll responded. did any of those tweets threaten your life, no,ll said. did any of those tweets say you should be in jail? no, carroll answered. did any of those tweets say you should be raped, her attorney asked. no, carroll replied. you see what they are doing there. it gets to the heart of the matter. trump's remarks led to a unique and unbelievable level of vitriol against e. jean carroll. >> yes, and this is part and parcel of what we see as the overall theme that trump's lawyers seem to be embracing in this case, which is this theme of minimizing. so in the portion that you just

described or trying to minimize the role that trump had in other people's harassment of e. jean carroll suggesting that some of those folks lashed out against carroll before the president told his lie, carroll in response quite strongly pushed back and said that character of the accusations and the graphic violent nature of them was different in kind and not just in degree after the president told this public defamatory falsehood. they have also the tried to minimize the reputation in the ways you described in the opening. trying to suggest that her reputation was either previously poor or somehow benefitted financially reputational or otherwise from the publicity that surrounded president trump's lie. carroll and her team pushed back against that minimization as well with carroll saying a at

one point that her reputation was shattered that she herself was shattered by what was said about her. most notably, i think their goal has been to minimize what's at stake in this case. so the framing from trump's side of this case has been this is just about a couple comments that trump made in 2019 when he was president. and that's technically true. there are only a couple of statements that are directly at issue in this particular litigation. but these jurors need to hear this wider body of information about what trump has been doing because of the punitive damages that are being sought. those are only appropriate for defendants who are dlij rant this are unrepentant and continue to show ill will and don't show any sign of being deterred to tell those lies. so this wider body of material

really just a mountain of ongoing evidence that is being introduced in it realtime. just today we saw the lawyers for carroll had to introduce a new social media post that happened right when trump was sitting in the room with the jury yesterday. and introduced a press conference that he gave yesterday after court adjourned. all of this sort of tsunami of ongoing information that shows this ill will, that goes directly to the question of punitive damages shows that there's this real gap between the minimization that trump's lawyers are trying to do in the courtroom and the max mitization of damages that their client is doing outside of it. >> i wonder what you make of this idea that they are pushing that e. jean carroll benefitted from accusing trump of sexual assault, which i would also argue has a weird circular

logic, where if what he wanted to do was not amplify her, perhaps he could have stopped defaming her when he was given the opportunity. >> i know e. jean carroll. she was friends with my mom. and she had a really good reputation in media circles as a really smart writer. she wrote an advice column and a little quiet. i do not -- it's hard for me to imagine someone less interested. she made a number of decisions in her earlier career that kept her out of the spotlight. and the idea that at 80 she would do this in the hopes of somehow basking in the glory of being a victim doesn't jive for me at all, in my mind. and in fact, if you think about all the people who were scared to go against trump, think about the republican senators who refused to vote to convict, all of the candidates who ran

against him who refused to say a bad word against him. this is a person who a lot of people are scared of. i think that the idea that e. jean carroll in her 80s would delight in taing on this guy, who is really famous as a bully and as a person, who is quite scary and who scares a lot of people, many people -- mitt romney had to pay for private security. it's beyond the pail that she would do this in her 80ss. and you remember she's written about this and talked about this. she slept with a gun under her pillow. she was quite afraid. i think it's really worse realizing that this is a really silly kind of way to further undermine her. >> the other tell here that 12.1 million, what it would take to repair the reputational damage that was done to carroll.

i wonder what you make of that number and if you could talk us through how you arrive at a number like that. >> the numbers that are being floated here are fall into the several buckets described in the beginning of our conversation. we have already launched into an afternoon of testimony from an expert witness who spent a lot of time and energy thinking carefully about the kinds of reputational harm that were inflicted upon. jean carroll and carefully detailing and itemizing what it would cost to remedy those. what an actual harm happened to her and what the dollar figures are that we can attach to fix them on the other end. that falls in the compensatory category. that's giving these jurors the kinds of tools that they need out of the mouth of an expert to

hear what kind of am e. jean carroll is owed make up for the harm that has already been concluded and that the judge has told them has happened to her. separate and apart from that, we're going to be continue og to hear testimony over the course of the next day or so that will give the jurors the evidence they need to answer a the larger question that e. jean carroll's lawyers va posed, which is how much will it take to need to face in order to stop doing this. that's the punitive side of it. and those numbers don't really have to be in evidence that was put forward, but instead have to be the jury's jury own determination of what dollar amount will deter and punish a defendant who has refused to stop spreading the lie. >> what do you think that number

is? >> this is a fascinating issue for this jury. just to pick up where she left off, the expert who i listened to gave anst mate between $7 million and $12 million, wich is how to rehabilitate her reputation among those people who now think worse of her because of the trump definite might. one of the things she looked to is companies do this, celebrities do this when there's negative information. they engage people so she had something to go on and gave data to the jury. what she didn't factor in is something that think will cause that number to go way up, be way beyond what she is talking about, which is that is looking at the number that is necessary

when the defamation has happened and it's not continuing. when you have donald trump to this day continuing to make these statements, it's hard to see how any reputational resurrection is going to happen amongst that group of people. so to your point, both the reputational harm and the punitive damages, it's hard to see a number that can be small. it has to be a number that in both fronts is going to be so significant that it's going to allow her to repair her reputation and is a number that will cause donald trump to think twice before he opens his mouth or his truth socials or gives a campaign speech where he denigrates her and thinks it's not worth it because i just got hit with an award of x dollars. the same kind of thing we saw

the jury do in the case against rudy giuliani just a month or so ago in d.c. where they had to face the same issue and came up with a number that they thought would cause him to stop the defamation. >> andrew alluded to this, but i want to put color on this. trump today put out a post say ing he never encountered e. jean. that she's making it up. putting aside the questions of his acuity. he's still defaming her. right now. so which is why we continue to ask this question of is there a number or have we gotten to the point where there is no number that's going to make this man stop. >> right. and i want to point out there's a photo of him with her. so there's a photo of four of them together. him and his ex-wife and her ex-husband. so he absolutely did meet her. there's no question here. he's just lying.

and there's a photo. again, i don't know. this is a little out of my wheelhouse, but i would say in my mind, there's no amount of money that be worth being afraid in your 80s. because this is quite scary. my heart goes out to her. you saw her get in the car with private security. she's putting herself in a position that so many powerful republican elected refused to put themselves in. you go against this guy and it's scary. it's worth realizing this is a wol in her 80s doing it not because she had has anything to gain, but because she feels that people should be held accountable for things they do. >> two questions for you. you were in the courtroom today. anything this we would have missed not being there. and there's just a few days left in this trial. your sense of how this plays out? >> so one reaction i have, which

isn't really great for cable news, but i'm going to say it any way, but as a lawyer, it was very painful to watch. maybe she's a very good lawyer in different settings, other settings other than inside a courtroom, but she is not a trial the lawyer. so what was painful to see is that she does not know the rules of evidence. there was a lot of schooling of that, and the judge, i think, being incredibly patient with somebody who did not know the rules, seemed to make no effort to know the rules and seemed to scoff at the judge when he tried to point them out and say what she needed to do as opposed to having a normal reaction, which would be being somewhat embarrassed by the fact that you are not aware of that. that was striking.

you never know how a jury is going to take the evidence, but the part that saw that having read the transcripts from the prior days, i think that it is a very pairless course to pursue a blame the victim approach. all of the statements by donald trump that we have talked about, that he has been making recently, including today about e. jean carroll are now in the trial. so what he is doing for his base as a political matter outside of the courtroom is now in the courtroom. and the jury gets to hear it. it's exactly like what happened with rudy giuliani. where he made a statement outside the courtroom on the first day that was played to the jury inside the courtroom. it's hard to see that it's going to sort of bode any better than it did for rudy giuliani, because it really goes to the issue that they have to address, which is what is the amount of

money, what is the amount of money and punitive damages that will cause donald trump to stop to think twice. what is the punitive damage amount that is necessary to punish somebody who continues to defame somebody over and over again. >> you say it's not good for cable tv, but i could listen to attorneys assess other attorneys all day long. thank you so much for getting us started. when we come back, the republican front runner who is facing 91 counts of criminal indictment saying out loud that a u.s. president should be above the law. it is the stuff of dictators. the desperate plea as we wait for a decision on the future of the d.c. trial. plus new hampshire maybe next on the primary calendar. donald trump is campaigning like it's the general election. new reporting on his urgent race to appear inevitable. and later in the show, the justice department calling the police response to the deadly

shooting in uvalde, texas, as an unimaginable failure. we'll look at the details from that report out today. all those stories and more when deadline white house continues after this. more when deadline white house continues after this i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks.

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as we await a decision by an appeals court on the ex-president's claims of immunity from the rule of law, this federal election interference case, husband latest post today argues this immunity should extend to, quote, even events that cross the line. it's the unsettling reality that we are living in. the leading gop candidate

telling the world he could do anything about consequences. that's dictator-level language potentially making the decision even easier for the already skeptical judges. joining our conversation is amanda carpenter. andrew is also back with us. what's the latest post from trump say to the appeals court judges as they are writing up their decision, given that they are pretty dubious of his claims? >> what's remarkable is the outlandish claim by his lawyers was the following. the president is immune unless and until he is impeached and convicted in congress. at which point he then can be criminally tried for the things that he has been impeached and convicted of. that's the argument that was made in court. that received an enormous skeptical response from the three judges.

we'll see what happens in their opinion, but that's called the impeachment first argument. that the president is immune unless and until there's impeachment first. that's not what the constitution says. that's not part of the structure, the history or even doesn't even make a lot of policy sense. donald trump, if it's possible, is in husband latest truth social post goes further. he says skip the impeachment first i'm just immune. the president can do what he wants. presumably what with he's say ing is joe biden can do what he wants. i don't know that's true. i don't know if he really the feels that way, why is he running for president because joe biden could be like i'm going to do what you want. you can't to anything about it. >> baked in there he knows joe

biden will never do that he knows joe biden does not have the same criminal mind. the answer is there. >> of course, mean that as a rhetorical point. logically, it makes no sense because joe biden is going to obey the rule of law. he's said that repeatedly just the way in which he deals with the department of justice is a perfect example of that. but for the court that has not yet issued its decision that's going to come down eminently, that kind of post makes it that much more important that they issue a very strong decision because they know they are dealing with somebody who. s to go even further than the already outlandish argument that was made to them. and it is really -- it's so hard not to be engaged in hyperbole here, but i agree with you. this is the language.

and it would be the conduct comic-con forming with that language of a trump 2.0 presidency. >> he's not even speaking in code. he's done flirting with ideas. this is dictator language. there's the trump of it all, but then there's what we watched out of iowa, which is that you do have republican voters who do not seem turned off by any of it. >> if anything, they see is the declarations as a positioning of strength. this is someone who will fight for them in the white house. and that's why i think it's really important that everyone gets focused on the policies that he is proposing. there's this continued idea that whenever he says something outlandish, it should be dismissed because it's rhetoric. absolutely not. these are promises that he will make policy if he becomes president again. when he's talking about making himself immune from the law,

once he has the pardon power, he has the ability to do that. and this isn't something he just posted today. he talks a lot about it. i have read them all. i see how they are supported by a vast infrastructure of conservative activists. there will be people who will support him and make this happen should he retake the oval office again. so you have to think when you look at that truth social post today, he's not even talking about himself. he's also applying that to federal law enforcement who act on his behalf. not only is he immune from the law, but if they go over the line, they will be immune from the law too. he speaks frankly about that. feel like a lot of this is flying below the radar because voters don't believe we're going to have a trump/biden matchup. but that is becoming very apparent after that dominant iowa win and will very soob become the reality in a few

weeks. >> other big news today. the judge overseeing this federal lx case denied trump's request to hold special counsel jack smith in contempt filing motions while this case is pending appeal. but both parties must now seek her permission for further motions. i want your reaction. i read that trial date. what do you think about the calendar here? >> i had the exact same reading. i thought it was a a no-brainer that she was going to deny the contempt motion. i thought it was ill advised for trump's team to file it. sometimes as a lawyer, you're obliged to tell your client no. i'm not doing that. you're not a hired gun. you have an independent obligation. it was an ill advised motion to seek contempt. she was right to deny it. but in the course of denying it,

she med it clear because there is this stay pending appeal this she will have to he set when the case comes back to her the various deadlines for filing motions for consideration of those motions and the trial date. so it's pretty clear that it's going to be impossible to keep that date. the issue is going to be how much time later than march 4th is entailed. that's why while we're waiting for that decision, the key part of that decision that i'm looking for is essentially on the last page because it's going to be a denial of the immunity to the former president, but i want to know how fast they are going to try to get this back on track before the judge. >> i will remember that when we're sitting here and that news breaks. i have 30 seconds left. i know your group have a report

out today about how trump's promises on the campaign trail would dismantle our democracy. you talked about that a little bit already. it also strikes me that you had trump's post included the quote, god bless the supreme court. there's the policy and then there's the mob-like behavior that continues. >> thank you for mentioning that. the whole thing is available on our new newsletter. we realize we have to have strong communication with this coalition. we can't depend on twitter to get the word out. we have very careful robust legal policy, political and media analysis of the specific plans, promises and powers that donald trump is formulating on the campaign trail that we believe will dismantle democracy. we're talking about the pardon power, regulatory retaliation, how he will expand law enforcement and dhs for immigration purposes and drastic ways. how he will abuse his powers to deploy the military in american

streets through the department of defense. there's really meaty stuff here. if he's elected, and he will be able to do it this time around, will fundamentally change what it means to live in america in 2025. >> andrew weissman, thank you for spending time with us. amanda is back in a bit. the fate of legislation hanging in the balance of one man who seems more focused on political survival than anything else. mike johnson's potion on an election year deal for the border. how alliances are lining up. we'll explain. e lini ungp. we'll explain.

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gold. standing the test of time. to those who think that if president trump win, which i hope he does, that we can get a better deal, you won't. you got to get 60 votes in the united states senate. so to my republican colleagues, this is ast an historic moment to reform the border that would give tools to the next president. >> lindsey graham yesterday adding to a chorus of senators sending a message to mike johnson to take a deal on border reform. there were hopes the progress might have even made over top lawmakers made yesterday. including speaker johnson. johnson quickly dashed those hopes when he said he has been frequently talking border reform with donald trump. who was urging him not to compromise. johnson was saying the ex-president is not wrong.

joining our conversation is rank raing member congressman jim himes of california. thank you for being with us. there is progress today on a short-term funding bill. anything on border negotiations and funding for ukraine and israel? >> remember, first of all, much more importantly, the moment of reckoning is when the senate passes their bill with strong bipartisan support, and it will have as lindsey graham himself said probably the best border deal that they are ever going to get. it will have money for israel and then it comes to the house. that's the moment of reckoning. because there's a substantial majority in the house to pass that bill. and again, it would be the standing up for ukraine and getting a border deal done, which is really hard. the problem is the speaker is

talking to trump a lot. trump is interested in maximum chaos and the more svere problem is the republicans have a very narrow majority. ask the two or three people who may decide they hate this deal so much, have the tool to make that happen. when the senate deal passes. they need to think about whether he wants to take a choice and do a deal with contracts that allow him to survive and get ukraine done, get the border deal done or whether he wants to get none of that done, and how he will explain that to the american public. >> how important is that aid to ukraine and israel that's being held up? give us a sense is of what that aid means? >> the conflicts are different. but they share one quality. hamas attacking israel is a totalitarian murderous cult really that brutalizedd israel. if israel doesn't have the

resources to fight that and if the ukrainian, who are dealing with a totalitarian murder in vladimir putin, if we don't send a clear signal we will not allow that kind of thing those kinds of groups to prevail, president xi in china notices. it has implications for stability in the middle east. it has implications for the many iranian proxy groups creating instability all over the middle east. this is really a critical moment. a lot of americans maybe sitting around the dinner table don't feel that. the problem is if the forces of authoritarianism get em boldenned that u.s. military, whether it's world war i or 2, the u.s. military is involved. that will have a profound effect on kitchen tables around this country. >> one of the dynamics we are watching is this play between house republicans and senate republicans. here's how senator tillis

reacted to speaker johnson today. >> what do you make of president trump telling speaker johnson he shouldn't support the border deal? >> i respectfully disagree he could not have even what we're negotiating. when the bill is released, and everyone, particularly conservatives and president trump, sees the tools that will be available to a president trump should he win the election, to lose this opportunity to get it passed into law is malpractice. >> talk about the substance of what is actually in there, it's striking to me that you have senate republicans seem to be very frustrated with house republicans and the way in which they do not seem to understand what is possible in the u.s. senate. it strikes me that is in large part because there are members of the house go p caucus who aren't really interested in getting anything done so much as they are interests in grand standing on this issue.

>> that's exactly right. let's be clear a about this. the majority of republicans would agree with senate republicans. they are legislators. they understand with you don't have the senate, you take your colleagues in the senate are saying is a good deal. there's two strains opposed to that. one that are devoted to donald trump and nothing else matters. if this is a bad deal for whatever reason, that reason is usually because donald trump is looking a after own self-interest, they will parrot those talking points. then you have the chaos agents or the people who are here because they believe that somehow they have the leverage to be far more than what the senators have been able to do it. but at the end of the day, it all comes down to does speaker johnson decide to do away with the let's say the firearm that every single member of the republican caucus now holds to end his speakership. the path to getting that it done, and i think he would find receptive negotiating on the

part of democrats to say let's agree to do away with this motion to vacate that allows the lieutenantiest of the lieutenanties to end the speakership. until that goes away, we're having these conversations and not getting anything done until the cows come home. >> congressman of connecticut, thank you so much for spending time with us. after the break, it was a few years ago when they wouldn't use donald trump's name. today reporting indicate she is may very well join the ex-president on the ticket. that story and why trump is so eager to start a talking cabinet, next. eager to start a talking cabinet, next.

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when it comes to the republican nomination for president and the new hampshire primary in five days, new reporting suggests donald trump is simply ready to get on with it. ut of a sense of self-preservation. trump is reportedly seeking to muscle his competition out of the primary by casting had his nomination as inevitable. the times reports the strategy reflects an urgent desire to end the race quickly and avoid an extended and expensive battle for delegates heading into supertuesday and march 5th. trump's team is looking ahead to south carolina on february 24th a as a waterhoo for his rivals. likening the state to the battlefield. their aim is to humiliate nikki

haley in her home state. joining us is professor of politics at morgan state university and host of the podcast, jason johnson joins us. amanda is back. trump want thes his competition wiped out sooner rather thn later so he can stem the tide of cash flowing out of his campaign. he's obviously the odds on favorite to win the nomination. do folks paying attention to the race, to them a favor by framing it as inevitable? >> it's inevitable whether they want to frame it, it's inevitable. unless donald trump keels over and dies tomorrow, he's going to be the republican nominee. quite frankly given how they behaved, even if he were to keel over, they would weekend at bernie him. this is what's going to happen president only question is what is the logic behind people continuing to get money to those who weren't going to win. nikki haley is going to lose in her own state.

ron desantis has shown he's not capable of being the nominee. everybody else is out of the race. it's not framing, it's not branding. now the question becomes is there somebody left, that they want to be this year's john kasich. do they want to keep going because i'm having a good time and collecting free money. that's the only option here. but i don't think trump can bully everybody. >> i think no one else is going to win. >>. >> we can agree no one looks like they are having a good time if that's the metric. the times reports part of the messaging is growing discussion of possible personnel for a second term. one name that comes up a lot is elise stephonic. eight people familiar with the matter has started to look more closely the a hers as a potential running mate.

she's a killer. your thoughts? >> he's the thing. trump wants to create excitement in this race and him doing this sort of pageant style presentation of who is am i going toment nominate is going to do that. she's a real contender. when chris christie was talking in his concession speech about republicans that have put their ambition ahead of decision making, like that is elise in bright flashing lights in the way she's had such a heel turn in her demeanor and career through the trump years. so i think that is very likely her name will get pressed, but here's what i'm worried about. as we continue down this path of trump vs. booid matchup, which doesn't excite a lot of people, there's going to be more emphasis on the vice presidential pick. and what scares me is that there's a lot of hostility

really really damaging outrageous stuff about kamala harris. so putting that magnifying glass onner her could get ugly, chaotic and mean in ways a that donald trump would probably celebrate, but would continue to turn off a lot of people in the process. >> i want you to weigh in on that and the fact that you have the times reporting trump going about private courting of south carolina senator tim scott for an endorsement, which is relevant as we look forward to south carolina. >> tim scott's endorsement did you want mean anything it's a about as valuable as when he rolled out husband girlfriend before he dropped outminute. no one cares with tim scott thinks. he's not going to be a vice presidential pick. this is stuff people are telling trump to do because it sounds like news. this is dangerous to donald trump and dangerous to joe

biden. nobody is particularly excited about this race. we understand that democracy is as stake. we understand that trump is an absolute danger to this country. we understand that joe biden is more competent. the idea that trump is going to create excitement by saying, i might have elise stefanik, nobody outside the republican atmosphere cares about elise stefanik. they would have to make a mercy call during a debate with kamala harris and elise stefanik. kamala harris is competent. she knows how to debate. elise stefanik is nowhere close to being capable. if this becomes a race for vps, joe biden might as well measure the curtains in the white house. he's going to win. >> i agree with a lot of what jason said. what concerns me is this discussion won't happen on a debate stage. it's going to happen in forums. it's going to be the smear

conspiracy politics we've witnessed since 2016. this is the chris christie mistake. we'll wait until we have this moment on a debate stage and so and so is going to win. no. all this happens outside that stage in ways that are chaotic and uncontrollable. that's what i'm watching that i fear is going to present itself. >> you can tell we all came up during the early '00s when debates were a key part of campaigns and elections. amanda carpenter, jason johnson, thank you for spending time with us. we'll sneak in a quick break. we'll be right back. break we'll be right back.

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well, florida republicans are at it again, back with more of their war on wo. this time with the florida board of education announcing a new rule that bars public colleges from using state and federal funds for dei programs, a rule that will imp students. the board also removed a general sociology course. the new rule comes after a judge blocked the desantis-backed stop woke act, calling it positively dystopian. a bench trial in that case is set for october of 2024. we'll keep our eyes on that story.

up next, a check in on the e. jean carroll trial. lisa ruben was there all day, her reporting after this quick break. her reporting after this quick break. it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. (vo) it's ultimate endless shrimp with another limited-time flavor drop. new crispy salt & vinegar shrimp. it's all that... and a batch of shrimp. now one of seven endless choices. only at red lobster. welcome to fun dining.

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♪♪ i'm always concerned of who's around me. i've lost my name and i've lost my reputation. i've lost my sense of security. all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally rudy giuliani decided to scapegoat me and my daughter. >> the president is gaslighting america. he's threatening.

he's denying. he's also playing the victim. it is an amazing combination. i was perfectly happy never to come forward, never, never to say anything. my reputation, my life, my livelihood are all on the line. they're all not only on line, they're on the line. it's 5:00 in the new york. two very different circumstances led these women to feel this way, but they reached the same point, the efforts of the ex president and his allies ruined their reputations and made them targets of trump supporters. e. jean carroll returned to the stand in her definition trial, finishing cross-examination by donald trump's lawyer alina habba. habba asked if carroll was more well-known before her

accusation. yes, but i'm hated by more people. carroll replied, my status was lowered. i'm trying to bring my old reputation and status back. the witness following carroll on the stand was a women named ashley humphreys who spoke to the damage caused by the ex president. she was an expert witness in carroll's first try and testified in the trial brought by ruby freeman. the former georgia election workers suffered after trump and giulniccused them of committing fraud and the jury awarded them nearly $150 million in damages. humphreys estimated the cost for carroll to repair her reputation would be between 7.2 and $12.1 million leaving open how much could carroll get if the jury decides with her. will it be enough to stop the ex president from speaking out

against her? that's where we start this hour. we have former u.s. attorney mia wiley, state department official during the obama administration, rick stengel, also charlie sykes and outside the courthouse msnbc legal analyst lisa ruben. lisa, what was it like in the courtroom today? donald trump, i understand, was not there. >> reporter: donald trump was not there, but his presence loomed large because the argument today ry centered on one word. you mentioned it in your opening. reputation. reputation was the name of the game today. the second part of the day really focussed on what will it cost to restore e. jean carroll's reputation? what i found most interesting about the cross-examination of her expert is that the focus was not on quibbling with the

monetary estimate that ashley humphreys reached in terms of what it would cost to mount a reputation repair campaign, but -- i'm sorry. i'm hearing cross-talking right now. >> i'm hearing it too, lisa. we'll sort that out. i learned you knew e. jean carroll during the '80s. >> i did. i didn't know her well. i knew her from similar circles. she was a dazzling figure on the new york scene. she was witting and charming and beautiful. she was a terrific writer. she wrote this advice column for "elle." her reputation was sterling. she was universally admired and liked. what she's gone through here has just been traumatic. i think so much of it is personal for her. it was something that happened to her which she wrote about in her memoir.

she just couldn't forget and couldn't stop thinking about it and finally it came to the surface. >> this point was important to me because part of what the trump team was trying to do was to say nobody knew who you were before any of this. you have gained from this. it seems ugly and unstrategic. >> it's extremely ugly. let's remember that a jury already found that they believe that donald trump sexually assaulted her and, of course, then defamed her. once you agree with the underlying facts, because she told two friends contemporaneously at the time, right when it happened, that's what makes it credible. it's the way women, girls are made to feel when they have been attacked, is that you are better off because you know a manor you're not better off because you don't know a man.

underneath this, what she has been saying is, no, i am someone who created a space and career and reputation for myself by myself and now you've been taking it away from me. remember, her book isn't only about donald trump when she wrote it in 2019. it was about her life. yet, what she's saying is, no, more people may know me but i'm worse off because my life is being threatened. i'm being called a con and a fraud. donald trump couldn't stop himself from repeating it yesterday in rn truth social. lisa, this question of reputational damage, what that is worth, what did you notice from today's expert? >> reporter: what i really noticed was that they were not -- the trump folks were not quibbling with the monetary damages. they're trying to attack the baseline assumption that she was damaged in the first place.

if you're hearing from e. jean carroll, i lost my reputation, one that i earned by myself, the retort from the trump camp is your reputation is pretty good and it's because of our guy. it's a variation on the kanye west i made that rhymes with which famous argument which he said about taylor swift. just like taylor swift e. jean carroll made herself famous, not the other way around. >> charlie, what's the number going to be that gets this guy to stop? he continues to launch these attacks. again, we're here because he redefamed her and now we're talking about how much that is going to cost him. he, as you know, he's been saying he doesn't know her. he never met her. putting that aside, he does not seem deterred by what is happening in that courtroom. >> he's not only not deterred,

he's continuing to defame her in view of the jury. in answer to your question, there's not enough money that's going to compensate her. $10 million is not going to restore her reputation. $150 million was awarded to shaye moss. dominion voting systems got $787 million from fox news in this defamation. no amount of money is going to deter donald trump from continuing to lie. i think that's sort of the reality. that's why he's sitting in the courtroom. he's showing absolutely contempt, not just for the judge and the prosecution. he's showing contempt for the woman that he actually raped. this is extraordinary. donald trump has a lizard pr instinct to distract attention from bad stories. yet, what he's doing is shining a spotlight on this particular

trial. i'm not a lawyer, but heck ling a rape victim doesn't seem like a great legal strategy or a good political strategy for swing voters. it may bring his base around, because it has in the past, but this is an extraordinary moment that donald trump has internalized this idea that it's locker room talk or he can shoot someone on fifth avenue and there are no consequences. there he is in the courtroom acting out, attacking this woman in full view of the jury and the country and i'm a little skeptical about the political genius he's displaying here. >> i want you to talk about legal strategy and you talk about the political genius. >> it's never good political genius strategy to triple down on calling another case forward. every time he talks that can be another lawsuit. the other part about this is

it's not a good legal strategy. if anything showing yourself to be not just contrite, but someone who had the best intentions is usually a good legal strategy. donald trump's not running for legal strategies. he's running for office. the only thing he's thinking about is the red meat he's throwing to the base he wants to turn out. i think it's dead right to say he's calling himself a victim despite being a predator, one who has been found by a jury of his peers to be a predator. he does that for the purpose of saying i need you to do whatever i say. that's exactly what when we talk about the 14th amendment cases, trying to get him off the ballot, it's a pattern of behavior that's consistent for donald trump when he was a candidate in 2015, when he was president during that one-term

presidency and when he called forth extremists to be his violent foot soldiers after he lost an election. >> it's important to start with that audio of ruby freeman, shaye moss and compare it to the e. jean carroll thing. these are different women in different situations. number one, it has been these women holding donald trump accountable for his behavior. it's also a reminder when they say these things, there's a chorus of people behind them that make it such that these women no longer feel safe in their homes. they can't apply for a job without having someone who would be their employer say why does the internet say you're a fraud. >> it's despicable. to see them both there is heart wrenching. to talk about his legal strategy, because i -- >> i assigned you legal. i assigned you political. go ahead. >> we should forbid using the

word double down with donald trump. >> i said triple. >> his legal strategy is to kick the can down the road. to kind of, oh, i'm going to double down on this. you can sue me again. he always hopes something is going to take its place. he'll get elected president and be immune. that's his legal strategy. i have to say, i agree with charlie about it's just seems like a dumb pr strategy if you want to win an election and you're trying to appeal to independent voters. the disdain for the rule of law, the disdain for the court system, the disdain for the judges, people don't like that. the court system is still respected. it's a bad political strategy. >> lisa, you were in the courtroom. what would we have missed not being there? what i love about your reporting it's in the substance of the legal arguments, but in the little things you see and pick up on that no one else does.

>> reporter: you know, alicia, we saw judge kaplan reach new heights in terms of his irritability. i spoke with you yesterday how elina habba is not an experienced federal trial lawyer. today we saw that even more so at one point the judge said to her, ms. habba, it's evidence 101. from her side you're not seeing well formed questions. you're seeing a lot of assumptions. you're seeing errors in putting pieces of paper into evidence. i wonder how that has to read to the jury too. on one hand you're seeing a judge grow increasingly irritable with one side of this litigation. on the other hand, it's deserved. they seem very out of place in this courtroom, particularly when contrasted with some of the folks on e. jean carroll's team,

including a former prosecutor who knows exactly what she's doing. kaplan's irritation reached new heights this afternoon when he said to michael madeyo, move on. we've been through this. you're wasting everybody's time. then he said, stop it. you're establishing facts we've heard a million times and running yourself in circles and wasting the jury's time and mine. that has to be a consideration for the jury too. not just are they watching donald trump disrespect the judge and the jury, but they're watching his very ill-prepared team disrespect them too. >> charlie, in thinking about a piece that sarah longwell published about the need for former trump officials to come forward. some have. they've popped up here and there. there's no sustained, coordinated effort to say we're

standing together as a group and we are telling you, based on our experience, this man can no longer be president. i think you'll layer in the behavior you're watching and you can say, just look at what the man is doing. he's not fit to be president. it adds a layer about why this man is not fit for office. >> also, remember a lot of voters haven't focussed in on this race. maybe they're exhausted. they're numb. donald trump is the same old same old. they're a little bit depressed at the prospect of another campaign between two old guys. in 2024 they need to be reintroduced to who donald trump is and what he is -- what a second term would mean. sarah's article was listing all this. she wrote it for "the new york times." she's listing all the cabinet members who were there in the room, who were selected by

donald trump, who watched how he behaved as president. each and every one has broken with them and is warning the country against him. many have given interviews to a variety of publications that are not necessarily read by republican voters or swing voters. what has to happen is in some concerted way, all the people who constituted donald trump's cabinet, his chiefs of staff, the people who were his secretaries of defense, secretaries of state, he is attorneys general, all telling the american people, we worked for this man. we saw this man. this is the danger that he poses. it could be very powerful. so far it has not moved the needle among republican voters. now that donald trump is effectively wrapped up the nominee, we're shifting to a new phase. a lot of voters have to make the difficult choice and to hear

from inside the house would be compelling. >> we're not hearing from e. jean carroll because there's not cameras in the courtroom. i want to play e. jean carroll talking about her decision to go public with her story. >> i watched 16 women -- 15 women come forward and then saw the president turn it around, deny it and then attack them brutally. i didn't want to do that. i didn't want to be dragged through the muck. then "the new york times" broke that weinstein story and it asserted me to rise up. what happened is women started to write to me in the last two years asking should they come forward. how can i sit there and receive these women who are telling me their story and i'm sitting there silent?

>> here's what this means for democracy. it's what it means for survivors. i see those issues as intertwined, a situation of who is being taken seriously. there are a lot of people watching this trial for whom this is deeply personal. >> very deeply. one of the great services that e. jean carroll is doing in what she just said in that clip is a reminder to all of us of what we already know from social science, which is that people who are attacked, women -- it's not just women who are sexually assaulted -- are humiliated. it's a crime of power more than sex, which we forget. it's that kind of abuse of power. what is so common is for people not to come forward. it's one of those deeply

underreported crimes. it's very common -- remember, dr. blasey ford and justice cavanaugh, very common for folks to stay silent until there's a group. until someone says, maybe it wasn't me, maybe it wasn't my fault. there's a whole other group of people out here who need us to stand up. that's exactly how it often happens and to go back to charlie's point about understanding who we're choosing to govern, we have to understand this abuse abuse of power. >> we're talking about the president of the united states going after an independent citizen. lisa, no court tomorrow. what are we expecting monday? >> reporter: the parties owe judge kaplan some briefs on an important issue. i mentioned before one of the

defenses here was that e. jean carroll wasn't damaged and, if she was, she had a responsibility to mitigate those damages. she exacerbated the harm to herself. judge kaplan was skeptical of that. so skeptical of habba's argument that he ordered them to submit briefs tomorrow. if this is the case, did you already assert that or did you forget to put that in your papers and thereby you waived it. he'll hear that over the weekend and will shape what the jury is allowed to consider. we'll hear from e. jean's former boss at "elle." then her case will rest and donald trump's side will have the opportunity to present their defense, either with former president donald trump as a

witness or carol martin, one of e. jean's friends. >> lisa ruben, thank you for spending time with us. when we return, another state hearing arguments about kicking donald trump off the ballot due to his role in the january 6th insurrection. we'll tell you what happened today and how republicans are trying to spin that issue. plus, the department of justice blasting officials for a series of decisions after the deadly school shooting in uvalde, texas. experts warning that 2024 will see an unprecedented rise in disinformation ahead of the election. why the country isn't nearly ready to deal with it. we continue after the quick break.

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the movement to remove donald trump from the 2024 ballot entered a washington state courtroom this morning where a group of eight voters filed a challenge to the ex president's eligibility to run for president under the 14th amendment. the judge dismissed the case, stopping that attempt in its tracks. in maine the judges put their decision on hold until the supreme court weighs in. all eyes are on the highest court on february 8th when the justices will hear the challenge to the colorado decision, a decision that will likely impact all states. we're back with mia, rick and charlie. mia, where are we in terms of momentum here? there are a number of states in

a holding pattern. what are we watching for? >> we're watching for what the supreme court is going to do. we have roughly 30 states with various forms of actions, oftentimes voters, people who are saying, republicans, independents, it's not just a partisan claim, saying this is what our constitution says. our constitution says if you're an insurrectionist you can't be on the ballot. whether it's judicial in the case of colorado, which is a very powerful opinion, or other places are saying, well, it's before the supreme court. they're going to hear the case. let's hear what the supreme court says. it is the highest arbiter of what our constitution says and means. that's what we're looking at. >> we're not reading that as a downshift in momentum, it's a holding pattern? >> it's a holding pattern. it could become a massive

downshift depending on what the supreme court does. we've never been here before. >> there's no case law. >> never had to have a debate about whether a president that's faced impeachment trial, not been convicted, nonetheless we've had a full hearing of evidence by congress in a bipartisan committee that said, you knew you lost. you actually understood, had been told by your attorney general and your own campaign and nonetheless you went around and organized the strategy that seemed to make sense and you went to a rally. you knew weapons were coming in. then you said, go to the capitol. show strength, all the things we know he said. this is unprecedented, but we also know we have a supreme court that's not only very ideological, that's a neutral

statement. elina habba herself, his attorney, talk about a bad legal strategy, oh, he appointed most of them so we're in good shape. that's suggesting this is not a case that should be considered frivolous in any way particularly when sound legal opinions have said, no, we're reading the plain language of the constitution. >> she's not saying those things behind closed doors. she's saying them on cable news. it's why you have 200 republican lawmakers signing on to a supreme court brief today for trump to remain on the ballot. they wre, it's hard to asking an insurrectionist asking for peace. it's def so broadly, even significant evidence can be labeled as a ruse, as insufficient or as implied recognition and praise of ongoing violence.

your sigh said it all, charlie. >> look, i'm a -- i don't want to be misunderstood. i agree with this lawsuit. i believe that donald trump was an insurrectionist. i believe the plain language of the 14th amendment makes it clear he ought to be disqualified. i don't think that's what the supreme court will do. i don't think the conservative majority will do that. i don't think even the institutionalists of the court will take an action that will be this radical. i'm much more optimistic about how they'll rule on his claims of absolute immunity. i think it's going to be a 50/50 here. i think the court is likely to reject his claim that presidents should have absolute immunity, that they should be able to order s.e.a.l. team 6 to murder political opponents without

prosecution. i think they'll slam dunk that. i think it's highly unlikely the supreme court will do something as significant as throw a presidential major party nominee off the ballot, even though i believe that's the rule of law. the supreme court pays attention to politics. they look at polls. they understand the mood of the country. i think they're going to be reluctant to do that. i think they're going to rule decisively against his claims of immunity. >> that letter i was referencing from the gop lawmakers, one of the names signed on to that was mitch mcconnell. a reminder of what he said in the aftermath of january 6th. here it is. >> there's no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. no question about it. the people who stormed this

building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president. having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories and reckless hyperbole which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet earth. >> he said he didn't think it should be dealt with by the u.s. senate. he thought it should be dealt with on the court of law. now that that's happening, he's signing on to the letter saying it's a broad definition. >> yeah, it's tricky. i mean, even if we all stipulate that he's an insurrectionist and even if we all stipulate that the language of the 14th amendment is clear, there's an

incredible bias in our system for elections being the thing that makes decisions for the republic. that's what the republic is all about. i imagine some of the justices will say this was to prevent confederate soldiers for running for election and it doesn't exist anymore. i think the bias in favor of elections is an american thing. i also agree with charlie they'll rule against absolute immunity. that is also so basic to our system. you know who has absolute immunity? a king. that's what we purposely didn't have in this country. we have a president who doesn't have absolute immunity. >> charlie sykes, thank you for spending time with us. when we return, the department of justice issuing a deeply critical report about law enforcement failures at the school shooting in uvalde, texas. the findings from that report after a short break.

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the department's review concluded that a series of major failures were made by law enforcement and others responding to the mass shooting at robb elementary. as a result, 33 students and 3 of their teachers, many of whom had been shot, were trapped in a room with an active shooter for over an hour as law enforcement

officials remained outside. i told the families gathered last night, their loved ones deserved better. >> an absolutely gut-wrenching press conference by attorney general merrick garland detailing the failures on the law enforcement response in uvalde, texas, where 19 children and 2 teachers were killed. the report calls the law enforcement response, quote, cascadinglures of leadership, decision making, tactics and training. adding responding officers should have immediately recognized the incident as an active shooter situation, using the resources and equipment there to push forward immediately and the threat was eliminated. the attorney general and the justice department emphasized the importance of learning from the failures in uvalde so nothing like this ever happens again. the parents and loved ones of

the 21 children and 2 teachers killed that day and the survivors are still trying to make sense of the horrific events of that day, may 24, 2022. >> that's something that i will forever not be able to comprehend in my mind. it took so long that, you know -- i mean, it was one guy. >> it still hurts. it's unbearable. people tend to say get over it, go on. how can you? that's your child. >> as of right now there has been no justice or accountability for any of the law officers that were there. we're still stuck on may 24th. >> joining our conversation, former chief spokesman for the doj anthony cooley. we always talk about accountability and justice.

there will never be justice for these families. >> there can't be justice for these families. they lost too much. it can't be given back to them. what's so important about this report is it reminds us what we know and what we've always known, which is we have to have significantly more oversight on policing. one of the things we called for in the civil rights community, the leadership conference called for it, the federal government is giving grants to local law enforcement. there's an opportunity in doing that to request and require oversight in exchange for getting our tax payer dollars. it's a critically important tool, particularly for small departments. small departments -- everyone pays attention to the new york city police department because it's massive and it's still unaccountable by the way. small departments really fly under the radar. for communities of color,

immigrant communities, communities that don't have the same access of being heard and listened to, whether by news media or politicians, it's extremely important to use the purse strings and the federal government's ability to have oversight and accountability to ensure that everyone's getting the protection they need and deserve. >> anthony, i want to read from the report. it details so many things that happened, not just during the shooting, but after it was over. unification center some nd the families were reunited with theirchildren. other famils received incorrect information suggesting their familyrs had survived when the had not. others were notified of the deaths of their family by personnel untrained in delivering such painful news. an official incorrectly reported an additional bus was coming, creating hope more kids were alive. at another point a family of a

deceased victim was told their child was still at the school, giving them hope they could be reunified with their child. it's horrifying, anthony. hard to read. how did so much go wrong here? >> yeah, you know, this is every parent's worst nightmare. what struck me in the lead up into the segment is the father who said it took so long. think about that. this was for 77 minutes law enforcement failing to intervene. during that period of time families were outside. they were begging for police to do their jobs. what struck me the most about this report, alicia, is there were ten instances where law enforcement are trained to intervene. six of those ten events were

gunshots that were heard within the classroom. now, typically these gunshots in active shooter situations are calls to action. that didn't happen here. the other thing that's really disturbing is the fact that these families are trying to turn their pain into action, particularly in the state of texas. after this massacre they urged the texas legislature to not ban the type of semi assault weapon used in this shooting, but to change the age from 18 to 21 by which an individual can acquire it. the texas legislature, republicans in the texas legislature, said, no. that just blows my mind that, in addition to these families losing their loved ones, that republicans in texas can

essentially thumb their nose at these families. that to me, in addition to the lives lost, that to me is the travesty of this whole situation. >> i am with you there. i remember being on the ground in uvalde in the days that followed with a state senator. he said, you need to understand this community, there's going to be big questions about access to resources. you're talking about rebuilding and healing. don't have the basis infrastructure in place. part of what we watched here is how hard these parents have had to fight for two things. they've had to fight for accountability. they've had to fight for basic information about what happened on that day. a subset of them is pushing for gun safety legislation that's been difficult to move forward, especially in a state like texas. >> yeah, it's heart wrenching. these families have suffered the

worst thing that any human being can suffer, a loss of a child. then they suffered the indignities of not being taken seriously, not being told the truth. it's awful. i would say that only -- i mean, there's nothing consoling about it. you do see the justice department in washington, d.c. coming in here spending millions of dollars to do a study of this and to find the accountability. i think this is something that the federal government should be praised for. i would think the parents are grateful for it too. they suffered the greatest harm and then the further indignity of not being taken seriously. >> anthony, thank you for spending time with us. up next, the new threat proposed by disinformation and why the united states is less ready than ever. that's next.

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the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com a new warning about our vulnerability to disinformation. experts say the united states is less prepared than ever to handle what's become an unprecedented threat level posed by disinformation in this country and around the world. driven by the intersection of many factors they say will impact how voters land on issues like a.i. technology, social

media companies, conspiracy theories and an increasing number of the eleorate susceptible to lies. from that reporting, quote, expertsarn a convergence of events amid a rising environment of authoritarianism makes this more dire than ever. we're back with mia and rick, the author of "information wars." it seems like there are folks in the u.s. government that read the first half of the book, not the latter. >> i was hoping you wouldn't focus on that. the two big things to remember about disinformation is, a, offense is always improving more than defense. it's hard to -- >> more rapidly. >> the offensive weapons are

more powerful than defensive weapons. it's not really a supply problem. it's a demand problem. people want to believe in conspiracy theories. they welcome that missile coming through their phone. at a time when we need content moderators on platforms more than ever, they're getting rid of them. twitter, facebook fired all their content moderators. the other thing is you have to stop the lie in its tracks when it happens. can't get it go by. in any interview when someone says the january 6th hostages, got to stop right there. you have to rebut it with truthful, fact-based statements in a nonemotional way. it's not going to solve the problem, but that helps. >> you were testifying about this, weren't you? >> i testified, yes, before a senate committee that was

focussed on legislation to say political parties and candidates shouldn't be able to use artificial intelligence to put words in someone's mouth that they didn't say. this seems like a no brainer. just because we have that technology doesn't mean it should be allowed to be used in all context and all circumstances. rick is dead on. we've been making a lot of noise about social media companies cutting truth and safety. just remember, a lot of the disinformation about the election, about where to vote, how to vote, targets people of color. youtube, about half of latinos on youtube are getting their news from youtube. not only that, youtube has said we're not calling election denial false anymore. facebook is also getting a pass

because other folks are getting more attention. it's important as an american public that we should say not only should this be regulated, but the first amendment doesn't say you can shout fire in a movie theater. the idea of public square doesn't mean there aren't some regulations. private companies in terms of what they can do, where they can do it and whether or not you're using technology that makes something look like it happened that didn't. >> take your point about how journalists need to stop folks in their tracks. it would help if people in power would also stop people in their tracks. mia, rick, thank you for spending the hour with us. quick break for us. we'll be right back.

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♪ ♪ thanks for spending part of your thursday with us. "the beat" starts right now. hi, ari. >> hello, everyone. the first primary of this campaign is five days out. we're a long ways from november 2016 where you see nikki haley being sworn in as president trump's choice to be his