are you ready for a little déjà vu? >> for president trump, my advice is simple. you've run a very smart campaign, you've never backed down. but now the focus should almost exclusively shift to the general election.

the democrats are going to stop at nothing, they see this train coming down the track, and they want to derail it. and if they can, they are going to game the system or maybe even cheat. >> whoa, what now? that was not foxes laura angrum in december of 2020. that was fox host laura ingraham this week, january, the year 2024. despite no evidence of election fraud last time around, and having to make $787 million to settle a defamation case based on their 2020 election lies. fox appears to be priming their audience once again to believe that if donald trump loses in 2024, it's because the democrats cheated. they are normalizing the completely false idea that american elections are rigged. and it is not just laurin graham. >> now turning to joe biden. what we are hearing from voters on the ground in iowa, about a

third of iowa republicans saying joe biden was legitimately elected president. but almost half, almost double that i should say, double that amount say that he was not. and next up, we asked about the integrity of our elections. >> and up next, moving, on no fact checks necessary. if you thought joe biden was not legitimately elected as president, when then you are in good company. multiple times on monday, night foxes version of steve kornacki -- no khakis -- mentioned that two thirds of the republican caucus goers in iowa believe that the 2020 election was stolen. and then fox just moved on to the next thing, no mention that that belief is in defiance of reality. after the attack on the capitol on january 6th, there was a moment where it really felt like republicans might finally ditch donald trump. fox news owner rupert murdoch said he wanted to make trump a non-person, which sounds

severe. the republican leader in the house, kevin mccarthy, discussed removing trump from office using the 25th amendment. he planned to ask trump to resign. the leader of the republicans in the senate, mitch mcconnell, said stuff like this. >> it was a violent insurrection, for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. >> there's no question, none. that president trump is practically, and morally, responsible for provoking the events of the day. >> cut to today. mitch mcconnell was one of the signatories of an amicus brief before the supreme court, saying that trump should not be taken off of the ballot in colorado for his role in january 6th. the new republican leader in the house, mike johnson, is also a signatory, as our nearly 200 republican members of congress.

42 of them, senators. among the things the senators and representatives argue in this brief on trump's behalf, is that the colorado supreme court's opinion so broadly interpreted engaged in, that it sailed right past president trump's repeated statements to his supporters, both before the breach of the capitol and after it was breached, telling them to act peacefully, and that he later told them by video to go home now. it is hard to imagine an actual insurrectionist quickly asking for peace and encouraging disbandment. it is really quite an argument, given where we were at this time in january three years ago. and the language in that republican amicus brief, almost exactly mirror is the language in the brief that donald trump and his lawyers filed before the court in the same case just a few hours ago. in that filing, trump argues that he wasn't responsible for what happened on january 6th, at all. nothing that president trump did in response to the 2020

election, or on january six 2021, even remotely qualifies as insurrection. president trump's words that they called for peaceful and patriotic protest, and respect for law and order. the colorado supreme court faulted president trump for, in its view, failing to respond with alacrity when he learned that the capitol had been breached. but even if that were true, and it isn't, a mere failure to act would not constitute engagement in insurrection. >> just as a footnote here, abc news reported last week that former trump white house chief of staff dan scavino told jack smith that -- with that as violent began -- trump began and was just not interested in doing more to stop it. just a footnote. the statements in trump's filing here are all in direct conflict with all of the information we have. the hours of testimony, the deep investigations into january 6th. what is being presented here is

alternative history, from a parallel universe. and nearly 200 republican members of congress essentially just cosigned it. now the supreme court is going to hear arguments next month about this 14th amendment case, and whether donald trump can actually stay on the ballot. but the larger battle here over what happened at the capitol, and who is responsible, well today we also got major news that may help trump avoid or at least delay accountability for his actions in and around january 6th. today, the judge in the federal election interference case, judge tanya chutkan, signaled in a filing that trump's claims of presidential immunity may actually push back his trial date. we already knew that the case was on hold until trump's question of immunity made its way through the appeals court, and the supreme court. but today, judge chutkan signal that when the appeals process is done, she may set a new schedule, one that takes into account the delays.

meaning trump's march 4th federal election interference trial, a big date as far as trump's potential criminal accountability, is now for the first time being questioned by the judge presiding over it. joining me now our melissa murray, professor of law at and why you, and former law clerk to judge sonia sotomayor. and michael schmidt, investigative reporter for the new york times, covering washington. it is great to see both of you, thank you for being here on set with me. melissa, let me just first get your reaction to these legal filings, both on from trump's behalf and the number of representatives in the upper and lower chambers of the u.s. congress. trump did not engage in insurrection, this is from trump's lawyers. in fact, the opposite is true. and telling supporters to fight like -- hell is not an insurrection either. -- what is your assessment of it?

>> well, both parties are singing from the same hymnal. and we are getting here is not necessarily a new set of substantive arguments about why donald trump should be immune from prosecution, or why donald trump should be allowed to be on the ballot in colorado. but we are getting the notion that this republican party is all in league behind donald trump. so there is a kind of symbolism to this amicus brief, it is not ground shaking, it is not worth -- it is actually quite predictable. but it shows that this party is in lockstep behind this leader. and so now we know, this is where they are going. >> it's beyond an endorsement, it's beyond pledging allegiance. it feels like a complete capitulation to the alternate reality that trump has sort of encircled himself in. >> it's a remaking of history, again, that recasting of history, in which donald trump is not a participant in the insurrection, but a sober resolute leader, who just watch this happen. and it is best, and level best to stop it. but we have evidence that that

was actually not the case. so, again, it's an alternate reality, and this is an attempt to remake history. >> michael, i am reminded of the michael cohen case, when we hear about the way trump's defense sort of reinterprets his words. fight like hell he just urging his supporters to be engaged in the american election process. it's this -- i wonder if you see it this way. it feels like trump gets right up to the line and without explicitly suggesting criminal behavior and it's something you've done repeatedly in his professional life. >> i think i understand why we give the legal arguments a lot of weight, and they are really interface, so we can see them. i think there's even something more significant fell. is that the country, and this trial, it's really on the clock. and the closer we get to the election the more likely it is to not happen. and if that trial does not

happen, then the real question is, why was there to delay? why did the justice department start the investigation on january 6th at the bottom up? because that delay will be all the more important historically, if this trial does not happen before the election. and this trial is the most likely one to happen, when you look at them. but if you look, and i am not a legal expert, and tell me if i am wrong. but if you look at this, this could easily get appealed to the larger appeals court, -- . and then it could go to the supreme court. so if that happens, you will have a situation in which a president of the united states engaged in this effort to overturn the election, he was never put on trial in the four years, and was able to essentially run again for his freedom, without ever going on trial. and that is a possibility, that is real, like i don't think i'm being too -- hyperbolic. >> no, that is not hyperbolic at all. i've said this from the

beginning in this network and elsewhere. the fact that we were even in the d. c. rcuit arguable arguing about presidential immunity was a tactical victory for donald trump, because it meant that there would very likely be a delay in this trial without start on march 4th. the bigger question with this republican party, i think, it is why are you lined up behind this person? but i think mike is right, they are lined up behind him because he is the presumptive nominee, and he is basically running for his freedom. he has nothing to lose at this point, and neither do they. >> do you think it's something more pernicious though? and i would ask this question of both of you, that they sort of look at the landscape. they look at the levers that trump has to pull, whether it's asking for -- whether it's appealing to the supreme court, knowing the speed with which the court moves on some of these things. and saying you know what, there is no way he is going to be in a jail cell before the election. he may not even be convicted. if he is, he will be in the appeals process, he won't be incarcerated while he is in the appeals process. he very well may be the next

nominee, so that's lined up behind, and let's get on board with his reality. do you think legally speaking, as you look at the calendar melissa, how optimistic are you about accountability? >> well i am getting less optimistic as the days go by. but i have to say, a lot of this is on the courts. do i mean, i am actually surprised that three judge cannot panel has not read your decision at this point, because it seemed pretty clear how many of these arguments in donald trump's favor were not only stupid, but speechless. so, there is definitely a way forward. they all seemed very skeptical of this. i mean, i am surprised that it is now the eve of the weekend, and we still don't have a decision there. which again, more and more delay. and as mike says, there are plenty of different avenues that it could go, and it could require -- and then a petition to the supreme court, we are flirting with time at this point. and that is in donald trump's favor. >> and judge chutkan realizes that, which is why we got what we got from her today. but you know in the meantime, as this is happening, trump is engaging in, i think it is sort of like, it is a legal strategy, but it is a political strategy more than anything else. the tweets at 2 am. they're not tweets, they are truths, but i don't want to call them capital t truths, his

social posts. they suggests that president who crossed the line should get total immunity. first of all, let's just take a moment to absorb what a former president and would be president again is suggesting here. explicitly and publicly, presidents who crossed the line to get total immunity. i wonder what you think of these -- and how indicative they are of intention? >> intention, but also intention of how he would rule. >> exactly. >> i don't think it's really a question about how he would view presidential power, if you were to come back. and i think it took him a long time, basically up until the last few months of his administration to really figure how to do it. but i think by the end, he had it figured out, and he had gotten rid of all of the john kelly is and gone -- and folks who were standing in his way. so he comes at it with telling everyone exactly what he wants to do. but also knowing how to do it. he didn't know how to do this, like at first.

and if you look at his moves in the first few years, he wasn't nearly as successful as he was in that final part, before he put all of that time and energy and power behind it. >> and i would argue also michael, he wasn't as, and he's always been mad at the deep state. but given the, he has been taken to the cleaners, in terms of criminal liability, 91 felony counts. his rage is unbound, in a way that is directed at the system of justice, in a way that it wasn't. i mean, he was always mad, generally at the bureaucracy. but it is focused like a laser on those who held him accountable, in a way that it wasn't when he was president. and i think i don't know if you think that is terrifying for a potential second trump. term >> the focus is different. i'm sure if you listen to his speeches, there is stuff about the wall, and all the other things. but when he ran in 2016 there

was a broader message that he used to appeal to those folks. it was not running on vengeance. the thing that i wonder, with the political hats on is that, is vengeance something that really appeals to voters? >> i can tell you, definitively definitively, as based on where he is right now in terms of the republican nomination that, listen, the number of republican senators -- and i focus on senator specifically -- because the senate is so critical in all these arguments about immunity, for example, right? does president trump need to be convicted in the senate, first, for his activities in and around january 6th? the insurrection before he gets criminal liability? that is what team trump is now arguing. and you see a letter like, that suggests you the senate is not going to do anything about january 6th -- you didn't think it was. but holding trump to account seems like a pipe dream. >> so, mike's point is a good one. when donald trump started in 2016, it was about trying to work within a sort of still norm bounded understanding of

government. but as you understand it of preceded over the course of those years, those norms eroded. -- now, he's completely unbound. i do think the fact that his base understands his vengeance -- but vengeance is really just a more accelerated form of grievance, which he has always been peddling. so, it's very familiar in that. way there are no norms left. he has eroded all these checks, like, impeachment is a toothless paper tiger. and the press, he has disregarded and >> explicitly in these missives. >> as you say, the senate is not going to be a check. either he -- thinks he has the courts in his pocket. we don't know at this point. so, he literally is tyranny forward at this point. and that is what we are proceeding to. he really has all the makings of a true dictator. >> when's the d. c. circuit court of appeals going to issue its ruling on presidential immunity? tiktok. are you watching? michael schmidt, thank you so much. melissa murray, lee stay here for just a few moments. because there is another very, very high-profile legal case i want to get to.

the latest development and one of the criminal indictments down in fulton county. district attorney fani willis is now under fire from one of trump's codefendants, but once willis and her entire office disqualified from the prosecution, and today, willis fired back. we are going to talk about that next. xt sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry.

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trump's codefendants in the georgia election interference case through a bombshell at fulton county district attorney fani willis. michael roman, a former trump campaign official alleged in the filing, without proof, that d. a. willis is involved in an improper romantic relationship with special prosecutor nathan wade and that her office has paid weighed on exorbitant sum of money for his services which he, intern, as used to take fani willis on lavish lavish vacations. all of this, without proof. because of this alleged conflict of interest, mr. roman is requesting that weighed, willis and her entire office be removed from the criminal case. now, michael romans filing referred to sealed court records in mr. wades divorce proceedings. now, fani willis has been subpoenaed for a deposition in those proceedings. today, a lawyer representing d. a. willis --

to quash a subpoena, arguing that d. a. willis has no relevant information to offer in this divorce matter, and adding, the subpoena district attorney willis is being sought in an attempt to harass and damage or professional reputation. defendant -- that would be mr. wade's ex-wife, has conspired with interested parties in the criminal election interference case. that would be trump's codefendants, to use the civil discovery process to annoy, embarrass, and oppress district attorney willis. back with me here is melissa murray. melissa, it feels like the messiness of nathan wades divorce proceeding is a convenient tool for these trump codefendants, to kind of get their claws in and say, oh, these untoward behaviors are cause for dismissal. what do you make of the timing here? >> this is basically the real housewives atlanta version of the trump immunity argument. it's a distraction. it's meant to insert a new set of legal proceedings all try to

figure out whether fani willis has to dispose this or that subpoena or whatever, and it delays the prospect of this georgia indictment ever going to trial. that's the name of the game here. and, to be very clear, i don't know what is going on between district attorney willis and nathan wade, if anything. none of us do. there's been no proof offered here. but whatever is happening, it doesn't actually affect the strength of the charges against donald trump in any of the codefendants that were named that indictment. and no one can dispute that. >> yeah, just to that sort of central allegation, that fani willis has ensure that her power moore gets paid this exorbitant sum of money that he then uses to take on vacations. she has not denied they are in

a relationship. she has said that he has got in this paid the same as everybody else, in terms of an hourly -- he's had more billable hours. but i do wonder, given the fact that she may be romantically involved with the prosecutor in her case, that the state is paying, is that -- i mean, if you are a judge, scott mcafee, here, is this open and shot in her favor? or is there potential avenue for problem? >> so, the optics are terrible, if, in fact there is a romantic relationship, and he is doing some exorbitant amount of hours and profiting in some way from this. they should be disclosed if they are in fact in a romantic relationship. and i think most people would say that, to err on the side of caution, it would be better not to work on the side of someone with whom you are in a romantic relationship in a matter that is so high-profile as this one. again, it doesn't undermine the charges that were brought against donald trump and his codefendants. it just messy. maybe it's an ethical problem with regard to how the prosecutors office is working. but it doesn't necessarily mean there are ethical problems with regard to the charges that they have brought. i think, again, this hard rating those -- is really important here. the optics are.

bad it's gonna be really tough sledding for fani willis going forward because of this. but not because of the strength of the charges she brought against him. >> right. there's going to be hearing. some of it is going to be televised. it is going to be messy. i was surprised to learn that, if, for whatever reason, she is ordered to step down from this case, her entire office goes with her. so as -- >> new people have to come on and get on board, which means we are not having this trial until after the election, which -- >> is it a foregone conclusion that new people will take it up? or is it an open question as to whether new prosecutors will take it up? >> i am presuming that there maybe prosecutors who want to continue this affair as an interim d. a. who thinks --

may want to continue. it but, there may not be. so, that too is part of the tact of tactic here. it's a big go big or go home kind of tactic. smear this woman, blow a pro-life, but also blow up this prosecution amid low blow it up to the point that it does go. back >> or maybe at the very least have a rock to hide under if trump is convicted and so they can, say the whole thing is rigged, this was a crooked prosecutor. she was just using this to make them money. i do have to ask, because the new york times is reporting today, that there has been very heated exchanges between fani willis's office and trump's defense team. the new york times is reporting that some of the attorneys have been addressing d. a. willis and her -- in ways she finds disrespectful. she has said to them via email, in the legal community, and in the world at large, some people will never be able to respect african americans and or women as their equals and counterparts. that is a burden you do not experience. >> what is your reaction to this exchange? >> it is not surprising. i think -- one way that we might understand the events of january 6th is not simply a riot in favor of donald trump, and a quote unquote stolen election, but also kind of revanchist assault on a changing model of leadership in this. country that we had this happen on january 6th. a week later we saw nancy pelosi has the first woman speaker of the house, signed

the articles of impeachment against donald trump, and then a week after that, we saw sonia sotomayor, the first woman of color to serve on the united states supreme court, swear in kamala harris as the first woman and women of colleges serve as vice president. there's a changing model of leadership in this country, not just in government but all over our corporations, law firms, whatever. and there are some, i think, for whom that changing model is unfamiliar and, perhaps, a little threatening and maybe they respond in kind. and there are those who are in those positions of leadership we feel that those slights quite -- >> yeah, i will say that i was in atlanta, georgia, on january 5th watching raphael warnock become elected as the first black senator from the state of georgia, and then january 6th happened. i'm not saying it's causal. but the two are linked in terms of the decline of one group of individuals and the ascension of one. another melissa murray, always great to see you, my friend. thank you. still ahead tonight, how would you best describe the 91 felony counts and multiple civil lawsuits facing the former president and current front runner for a republican presidential nomination?

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hampshire primary in 2016, donald trump did not have the endorsement of a single sitting member of congress. and today donald trump has the endorsement of more than 100 republican members of the house. he has the endorsement of 25 republican senats, which means nearly half of all the republicans in congress have endorsed donald trump. they are all just waving the white flag on this one. at this point, the only thing standing between trump and total victory over his party is the long shot candidacy of former south carolina governor nikki haley. biden order to beat donald trump, nikki haley probably has to run against donald trump. for the last year governor haley has offered one candid line whenever she is asked about trump. >> now, i agree with a lot of his policies. but the truth is, rightly or wrongly, chaos follows him. i agree with a lot of his policies.

but the reality is, rightly or wrongly, chaos follows him. i agree with a lot of trump's policies. and chaos follows him. >> haley is now essentially in a one-on-one battle here. she's been given every opportunity to contrast herself with trump's increasingly lawless and authoritarian tendencies. so, how did she respond today? >> donald trump has said, on day one, for a day, he will be a dictator. what sort of alarm bells is that rincon how do you respond to -- >> i mean, look. i voted for trump twice. i agree with a lot of his policies. i have said it over and over again. rightly or wrongly, chaos follows him. >> nikki haley was literally asked about something that

donald trump said he plans to do. to turn america into a dictatorship for a day, and even then, the only critique that he was willing to make of a self acclaimed would be dictator was a swipe at his personal shortcomings, which, by the way, it may not even be his fault. he just followed by chaos, rightly or wrongly. to the extent that nikki haley had any substantive criticism of her opponent today, this was pretty much it. >> -- he needs to answer the question, why does he want to -- proposed 25 cent gas tax increase. why did he put us eight trillion dollars in debt over four years? i want those questions asked. get him on the debate stage. >> those are the issues that haley thinks trump needs to answer for. the gas tax, the deficit, and a proposal on raising the retirement age that is basically indistinguishable from haley's own proposal to do the same. nikki haley is categorically either unable or unwilling to take donald trump on regarding the issues that actually and the may the republican electorate right now, thanks to much part to donald trump.

the explicit racism, xenophobia, the misogyny. all of which are issues that nikki haley, more than anyone else, is in a position to talk. about she is a woman of color. she is the daughter of immigrants. she was the governor of south carolina in one of the worst white supremacist attacks in that state's modern history, and she responded to that attack by removing the confederate flag from the state capitol, recognizing, in so doing, that symbols of racism were embedded in americas culture and its history, and that those symbols needed to be removed. it is a moment tailor made for nikki haley to distinguish herself from the former president, the man who once said of violent white supremacists, there are good people on both sides. and yet, just weeks after failing to identify slavery as the cause of the civil war, nikki haley went on live television and said this. >> we are not a racist country, brian. we have never been a racist country. our goal is to make sure that

today is better than yesterday. are we perfect? no. but our goal is to always make sure that we always -- more perfect every day that we can. >> nikki haley's at -- just errors. but they are probably, actually, a tacit acknowledgment that whitewashing history and excusing racism are the things that power a sizeable portion of the republican base in the era of trump. the base whose support she needs to win. we will talk with david plouffe about whether or not she can actually manage to do just that, next.

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secure the border. i don't know that she's a democrat, but she's very close. she's far too close for you. i actually think she might go to the democrat party. she stabbed the republican party in the back by signing with barack hussein obama against the trump travel ban. >> that was donald trump attacking nikki haley in a rally in new hampshire last night, with five days left until that state's primary. it remains to be seen whether nikki haley intends to respond in kind in the next five days, or ever. joining me is david plouffe, campaign manager for barack obama's 2008 presidential campaign. president obama senior white house adviser and the host of the hq podcast. so many credentials. yeah, how are you thinking about this? nikki haley is the only thing standing between the republican party and the trump abyss.

and yet after attacks like that, some of them are explicitly racial, they are definitely demeaning, and they are gloves off. we are getting nothing from nikki haley, even approaching that level, if you will. >> well, to be clear as the campaign manager for barack hussein obama, it's actually pretty remarkable to me as a former practitioner, this is one of the most intense four weeks in american politics between ayo and hampshire. and i would say haley schedule doesn't seem to be frenetic or breakneck. the urgency of what she is saying, trump has to be stopped, is a weak sauce. i assume they think that there is too much to be lost by going to negative on trump. but it's not like you're going to get those voters anyway. it's like a football team, you down three touchdowns, well we're a running team, we'll, if you don't pass are going to

lose. even though the odds of success are not great. something that could be relatively close, i think trump's ceiling in new hampshire is not 55 or 60. it's probably around 48 to 54. she'll get most of the rest of that vote. but she is closing here really weekly. >> help me look behind the curtain here. do you feel like on the race staff, we were playing some sound earlier. her reluctance or inability to say that the civil war, that the root of it was a fight over slavery. she said america has never been a racist country. these are at odds with positions she stayed out earlier in her career as governor.

she took the confederate flag down from the south carolina state capital. this woman knows better. is she doing this because she understands saying racism, acknowledging institution legacy racism would basically disqualify her with trump's base? is that what it is? as you point out, why bother? if she's trying to win the races, she's never going to. >> it's such a sad state of where that party is if that's what she believes. and she's probably right about that. the problem is, it looks weak. you are just not going to beat trump if you look weak. and i think ultimately that's going to keep some lid on what she ultimately can get in new hampshire this week. >> as far as, i have to ask you because i know you have been vocal about the need, you said at the beginning of this, she doesn't have a breakneck schedule. there's an idea in american politics that you need to be hitting the road, knocking on doors, during the retail stuff, in voters faces. trump won iowa without doing any of that. he had a ground game, but he has nationalized american politics in a way that no one else has recently. then you have technology that aids and assists and people understanding who their candidates are in a way that maybe a living room appearance doesn't. does that render the old model

politics moot? >> i don't think in a small state like new hampshire. it's definitely changed a lot. trump was in such a downward position that he didn't have to. back in 16, were the reasons he lost to cruz's, who's outhustled him. trump had a lazy schedule. so i think with haley should be doing 46 events a day but you're cutting social media content. you just storytelling all day long. but having been in new hampshire in 2008 when we lost it, hillary really hustled. i think you get rewarded for that. again, haley is a long shot right now. voters particularly want to see long shots doing everything they can to be making their case and fighting for every vote. that's not what we get out of there. i don't understand with the point. is if she doesn't win next tuesday, she's done. the race is done. trump's the republican nominee. the general election starts. >> david, what about the left behinds, if that's a scenario

that comes to past? i don't think a lot of people paid attention to this. when asia hutchison dropped out of the race, and many h or hassan hutchison vance thought he was still in the race, his retirement, if you will, was a shock to those of us who could've sworn he had already dropped out. the biden campaign, i think it was the white house, that apologized to asa hutchison, saying the president knows asa hutchison to be a man of principle who cares about a country enters a strong record of public service. jeff zients the chief of staff called the governor to can to apologize for the dnc statement. that's certainly playing to everyone's better angels and raising the bar on how we treat each other. but i wonder if it's better tacitly a play for all of these republicans who don't want donald trump, who are opposed to donald trump, and who biden is going to need, come november. >> absolutely. this has to be a coalition of, an uneasy coalition put

together, including, let's, a 45% of biden's ultimate vote share to win are gonna be people who disagree with him about just about everything else under the sun. we all have to say, in this moment we're going to come together so we can save the country, and then we can go back to fighting about tax rates and who gets health care and who doesn't, and public education and all the things used to be a part of politics. so anybody, even if there just aren't conservative, but for whatever reason they are saying trump has gone too far and he will destroy democracy and become an autocrat and dictator. if they're willing to be in the car with you, you've got a full car, man. >> it's getting to be a crowded car. just wait till nikki haley new hampshire supporters are being invited for a ride. it's going to be a weird year. david plouffe, thank you for being here tonight. i appreciate. it one more story for you tonight.

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images out of gaza that showed the staggering number of displaced civilians wedged into the city of rafah since the october 7th hamas terror attacks. the highlighted areas for the explosion of tent cities, where there is little no access to food or water. you and officials warn the famine across gaza is imminent the. world health organization predicts that the death toll from sickness and starvation could eclipse the number of people killed in the war, which, according to the palestinian health ministry, is over 24,600 people, 10,000 of which are children. so far. as it stands, 132 hostages from

israel are still being held by hamas inside gaza. 27 of whom israel's's are no longer alive. what is happening inside gaza right now is already apocalyptic, but the end of this war is nowhere in sight. the u.s. has continuously pushed for a two-state solution as a means to end this conflict, but today prime minister benjamin netanyahu rejected that notion out right. this was the response from the u.s. state department. >> there is no way to solve their long term challenges, to provide lasting security, and there is no way to solve the short term challenges of rebuilding gaza, establishing governance in gaza, providing security for gaza, without the establishment of a palestinian state. >> joining me now is the host of ayman, which ends week which airs wednesday night on msnbc. the u.s. is pushing for a two-state solution, netanyahu is dismissing that is a possibility out of hand, what

are people negotiating about at this point? >> to be honest, there's not much negotiation taking place on the big picture, the comprehensive issues, if you will. what we are seeing our low level negotiations taking place on getting medicine to gaza, trying to get more aid trucks into gaza, trying to secure some access to the hostages. we are far removed from solutions around the two state solution, but what's interesting about netanyahu said, it's not that he is emboldened into finally u.s. government stated objectives of having a two-state solution. this has been the implicit policy of the government of benjamin netanyahu forever. he has boasted about this domestically to his political constituents, saying i have denied and prevented the creation of a palestinian state. he campaigned on that. i think american officials who are now kind of waking up to this soundbite today from netanyahu, have either been

living in denial or have been ignoring it for the sake of political convenience. they don't have to deal with this or confront this issue head-on. >> but what is the logic there? first of, all the two leaders, biden and netanyahu, how who haven't spoken in 25 days, netanyahu is out there explicitly undermining the goal that americans have laid out, which is a two state solution. given that, senior administration officials tell msnbc news if we took such statements like the one netanyahu is making is the final word, there would be no humanitarian assistance going into gaza and no hosta released. we will continue to work toward the right outcome, particularly on issues where we strongly disagree. this isn't some small footnote about how many aid trucks get into gaza. this is the essence of the conflict itself. >> this is the ultimate vision of what the united states has for the middle east, that its ultimate security for the region, ultimate peace, rests on this cornerstone of two states where two people, with security and peace for both people.

the israeli prime minister is openly defying the largest backer of his government, diplomatically, militarily, financially, and it's doing so brazenly knowing there won't be any consequences, either on capitol hill or within the american political establishment at large. to your point about why, what's the logic behind this, the logic behind this is, this right-wing government, the most extreme in its history, has never believed in a two-state solution. the fundamental problem is, what arab governments have told us is the hypocrisy of the americans when they look at the palestinians and say you are words matter, your language matters, if you don't accept a two-state solution in your rhetoric, even if you believe in your actions, if you don't acknowledge it rhetorically, you will not receive any support from america, and we will denounce your existence as a political representative of the palestinian people. however, that doesn't apply to israeli officials who come out

and say explicitly, we will not work with palestinian state. we will have full control over from the river to the sea, complete israeli sovereignty, the very slogans the people in this country are saying, hey, so how these are genocidal slogans, american college student say them on campus. somehow and the israeli prime minister says, than american politicians are suddenly quiet and nobody is saying hey that sounds like a genocide, a call for genocide when you say there were only be israeli sovereignty over the entire territory. >> in the meantime, ayman, this is teetering on spreading to a direct confrontation with her on the bombing of the hooty bases. and i want to get this in here, all universities in gaza, 70% of the schools have been destroyed. the way to recruit terrorists is by having a population that is disenfranchised, feels no

hope, is not educated. >> and universities and schools, what are they about? they're about future. israel says that they are bastions of tunnels and rockets, but when you put in the numbers that you just outlined, when you are destroying a university, you are destroying a future generation of education. that means thousands, tens of thousands of palestinian kids will not go to school. what do you think happens to those kids who are now ripe for the kind of extremism and the indoctrination in the violence that extremists will exploit to their ideology. >> there's so much to talk. about thank you for taking a little time this evening. and iran minder that a man airs weekend nights at seven pm. now is the time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. katie porter is gonna join us and she hasn't been here for a while. she always takes us in a direction i don't see coming. >> i'll be watching. have a good show. >>nk