weekend this saturday morning. you could follow the show on social media at vote weekend msnbc, and be sure to join us right back here tomorrow. we'll be joined by john kirby, the national security council coordinator for strategic communications, for the white house, and we will talk about escalating tensions in the middle east, including recent u.s. strikes against the houthis. that's tomorrow, starting 8 am eastern only on the weekend on msnbc. velshi starts right now, hey, ali! i have to let you know, i did ask what you were wearing today. i just wanted to know, and it is a lovely suit. >> you gave me a little space between eugene daniels and me, so, you know what i mean? i feel a little less like i am and the tight knit competition. i've got to face off of michael steele look at it on many times. [laughter] >> you're looking good, my friend. you're looking good. you're all wonderful, thank you for another great show. have yourselves a great. i will see you tomorrow morning. >> bye, ali. >> and good morning.

good morning to you, it saturday, january the 20th. i'm ali velshi. three days, three remaining candidates for the republican nomination are gonna face off in the new hampshire primaries. ron desantis, nikki haley, and donald trump. they're all holding offense throughout the state this weekend. and in the normal presidential election year, the race would really be ramping up right now. we would be talking about momentum from iowa and how the independents would line up in new hampshire and who would last through south carolina and to make it to super tuesday? this isn't a normal year. this is a post trump era of american politics, and anyone who's been tank attention to the republican party and as long as it's concluded the try some piece multiply indicted experts wouldn't will be the last man standing. that's how thoroughly he has taken over the gop. the former presidents decisive victory in iowa on monday resulted in the republican party consolidating its support for him even more. this week, trump officially secured the endorsements of more than half the republican members of congress, and before all the footer even counted in

iowa, on monday, night at least defending, head of the house gop conference, was already calling for the other candidates to drop out. this she's in new hampshire, campaigning on the former president's behalf. perhaps all the shunning to be his running mate for vice president. also at a rally last night, trump received a key endorsement from one of his former 2024 opponents, south carolina governor, south carolina, former i'm sorry. the south carolina senator, tim scott, who was ironically first appointed to his position by the south carolina governor, nikki haley. as was the case in 2016, virtually the entire gop is falling in line. nearly two thirds of iowa republicans said they believed trump would still be fit to be president, even if convicted of a crime. a similar percentage of respondents also said they don't believe president biden legitimately won the 2020 election. assign trump's baseless big lie continues to have a firm hold on the gop. now, important to note the respondents of these two poles

were caucusgoers. in general, caucusgoers tend to be among the parties most faithful members, one might even say most extreme members. these results are consistent with everything we've seen over the last few years. donald trump supporters are right there with him. even as his rhetoric has become more blatantly fascist, they want what he wants. in the past year, trump was called for the termination of the constitution, said he wants to be dictator for a day, and echoed language used by hitler one claiming that immigrants are quote, poisoning the blood of our country. in fact, take a look at this. a poll conducted this month by cbs news and yougov found that 82% of republican registered voters agree with that latter statement. trump has fundamentally transform the republican party to the point that the party itself has taken on his grievances, and the agenda of vengeance that he's openly planning if he wins a second term. the maga base has backed trump through every one of these

norms shattering scandals, and now appears that they see themselves as intrinsically linked with the former president to the point of no return. as tom nichols wrote in the atlantic this week, quote, these voters and i want to get even with their fellow citizens. not for what's been done for trump, but for what they feel has been done to them. they were certain that 2016 would finally bring them the recognition that respect they craved. instead, trump set them up for a steady diet of ego bruising rebukes from other voters. joining me now is tom nichols, staff writer for the atlantic, professor emeritus at the u.s. naval war college and author of the book, our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern democracy. also with us, former republican strategist matthew dowd. he's a senior msnbc political analyst and author of the book, a new way, embracing the paradox as we lead and serve. good morning to you, gentlemen. thank you both for being with us. tom, i've been with the with great interest. so your analysis on this, which i just quoted, and as you said in that quote that i just read

in the introduction, donald trump supporters, i don't know if the right word is have adopted these grievances or are feeling embraced by his grievance, and his thirst for vengeance, and i want to ask you a little bit about that. that chicken and the egg here about and branches. >> one of the strange things about the trump era is that a lot of the complaints of trump's voters became self fulfilling prophecies. if you talk to trump voters in 2015, 2016, as he was running the first time, they would say well, we are looked down upon. or, the culture doesn't respect us. of course, that resulted in these endless in name safaris to diners and gas stations, and you know, the futile attempt to understand the trump voter. what happens after voting for trump twice and supporting him

even as he threatens to become a dictator after january 6th, after all of his horrendous behavior, after the e. jean carroll trial still ongoing, they've turned it into a self fulfilling prophecy. yes, there are a lot of people who look down on them for what they're supporting. a lot of ordinary, normal americans who would never think to support a man who's been found liable for rape, who talks about a citizens as ferments, or trump voters are saying, why are you looking down on? thus why are you charging us as if there weren't perfectly good reason to do that. so, it's not, it's now come full circle that the anti establishment candidate has dragged his voters into the sewers with him, and they've decided that they have, after years of doubling down, that they simply have to accept it and revel in it and claim that this is what they wants all along. >> matthew, this become self fulfilling after a while, right?

if the idea is that we lack empathy and or people lack empathy and are talking down to these folks who, as tom said, perhaps should have a different reaction to things, we're not gonna closer to a solution. what do you do with this? i think many years ago, one could understand some degree of grievance. but after all that donald trump has done to, in his perplexing to the rest of us as to why his support gets stronger amongst this group. >> yeah, you know, as i listen to this, it's kind of like the festive viscera, right? it's not just one day of grievances. it's every day is a day of grievance. in the course of this, and i, to understand, this i also think is yes, donald trump has been perceptive list, but i actually think he's probably more of a reveal or than a concert of this. i think donald trump revealed what was existing in american politics. the reason why donald trump won in 2016 wasn't because he cost the republican party to become

what it had become, what it has become. if he revealed a part of the republican party, and a large part of the republican party, as wanted to be stayed in this grievance era of this. i would remind folks that sarah palin, in 2008, when she ran with john mccain, who was kind of the pre-trump trump in the way she talked and the way she talked about things, she drew larger crowds than john mccain. and that was eight years before donald ran and won in this office so, i think in order to do something about it, we have to understand that's the current state of the republican party. and donald trump just removing donald trump from the equation is not going to solve the problem. >> tom, let's explore that a little bit. let's talk about the two pillars right now of donald trump's appeal. one is this savior. thing that i am doing this for you. i am standing between them and you. i am being prosecuted so that you are not prosecuted, which makes zero sense, because

nobody else would be prosecuted from things donald trump did. and, then there is this deep-seated grievance, which he wrote about that, it's this adopted by people, or is this there and we have to do a better job of figuring it out how you run a country when you have some large percentage of the population with deep-seated grievances? >> the strongest political force in the world right now is resentment. is deep-seated and mostly emotional and a rational resentment. and trump, i think matthew has a good point here. trump tapped into that. he kind of mind that as a very rich vein of political support among people who hadn't, had put into words this sort of itching feeling of inferiority and the sort of sense of being outsiders, even though ironically, the republicans, as trump went into 2016, were

probably the most powerful they that far been they'd achieved unified national government by then. they control the majority of elected seats. across the country, but trump's voters had a beef with the culture, which they felt wasn't their culture. that it somehow didn't respect them, and created this kind of itching, writhing sense of dissatisfaction that they need to express somehow. and trump, who's one genius, he's an incredibly ignorant person, but he's a genius at marketing, and he marketed that brilliantly. but i don't think there's much to be done about it now. you can't really reason people out of that. some people will naturally just recover from it, but the idea is that somehow, we can go out there and talk to these voters and say okay, once and for all, what is it that we can do for you? they don't want you to do anything for them. they want this chaos.

they want the anger and the completes constitutional mess and danger that trump wants to create. and part of it, i'll just go back to its comment about sarah palin. the problem is, people want the tv show. they don't want to be bored. trump is fun. he's interesting. to them. and joe biden is boring and they want life to be like tv. unfortunately. >> so matthew, i think thompson tiredly right that you know, the most potent political force in the world right now is resentment, and some form of grievance. but how can we all be saying there is no potential solution to this? and who solves it? if it's not going to come from us trying to figure out what will bring these folks around, and i think don might be right about that, who does? who fixes this? at some point, did we lose to resentment and grievance? >> well, we fix it. in the, and we as people fix

this problem in this anti-we treat one another, how we engage with one another, and i get the level of hatred and a level of vitriol that all of us face if we are having any conversation in a rational way, in this era right now. because tom's exactly right. you can't resent somebody out of an emotional connection. and these voters have an emotional connection to this grievance and to donald trump. you're not gonna be able to give them the ten logical points of why they shouldn't. at some point, i believe, we have to make the argument that yes, you have a grievance, but donald trump has no respect for you. donald trump is a place folder rear grievance and anger. he doesn't care about you. he has no respect for you. he looks down on you. and i think the only way is one person, one community, one you know, one avenue at a time, in how we engage in how we treat one another in this, because the problem of answering a

grievance that they have with a grievance that another side has is only going to make the problem worse. and, martin luther king talked about this. everybody in history has talked about this. you can't answer hate and anger with more hate and anger, because it only implodes. >> gentlemen, thank you for kicking us off this morning. i appreciate all the time and thought you've given to this, seemingly intractable issue. tom nichols is a staff writer at the atlantic and the author of the atlantic daily newsletter. he's also the author of the book, our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern democracy. matthew dowd is a senior msnbc political analyst and a former republican strategist, and author of a new way, embracing the paradox as we lead and surf. with just three days to go until tuesday's primary, will head to new hampshire for the latest on the kayleigh's quest to prove that she's an actual alternative to donald trump,, plus the supreme court heard two very important cases this week that have potential to upend how the american government functions, and not for the better. a call to order as well, this week's meeting of the velshi

banned book club, we're taking a close look at censorship efforts in north dakota. legislation aimed at crippling libraries and threatening librarians with jail time. ns with jail time. oriaarthritis and psoriasis. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. i move so much better because of cosentyx. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx.

here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud

join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. all right, we're three days away from the first primary of 2024. obviously, iowa was a caucus. the story of the night is going to be how nikki haley and ron desantis arrogance front runner, donald trump. new hampshire was once a storied all-important primary, but this, year with donald trump polling so far ahead of its republican challengers, this primary is feeling less relevant to the outcome. trump's closest rival in the state, former south carolina governor nikki haley, is keeping a light campaign schedule by new hampshire standards. she did refused to debate unless trump also participated. he obviously hasn't participated in a debate and probably won't. ron desantis, who ended up haley for second place in iowa, it's already focusing his attention on south carolina, we

are that primary is still a month away. joining me now from trump headquarters in manchester, new hampshire, is nbc's ali vitali, also in manchester is nbc's vaughn hillyard. welcome both of you,, good to see you, allie, let me start with you about nikki haley. that's a tough one. she's running second in theory in new hampshire but such a distant second that there's no real talk about her gaining a nomination. so, what she looking for? what does success look like for nikki haley? >> that was exactly the question, frankly, ali that i asked nikki haley yesterday when i was with her. just to give you a scene here really quickly, we are in the middle of trump hq and frankly, this is what it looked like when you are the front runner in a state. i was covering trump in 2015 and 2016. the same vibe then are one feeling now. a lot of the smart, better is coming to the fact that trump is probably going to win here in new hampshire, and that's why i asked nikki haley the question you asked me, which, is what is your ideal scenario? i asked her to pick me the best case over the course of the

next month. i said, let's even say you win here in new hampshire. what does it look like going forward? she didn't even take the chance to say get, the best case is that a win in new hampshire. instead, she said she wants to do better in new hampshire than they did in iowa, and better yet in south carolina. now, there are a lot of pieces to this that make it very hard, if not impossible, to get to the nomination. but that is the case that haley is painting for herself right now. even as, and i'll bring it into the room here again, just behind me, you see the scrum of reporters in the center of it is the number three, house republican elise to fonac, she is out here on the campaign trail, so is tim scott, a fellow south carolinian. my colleague, olivia saunier, in that reporting as well that other members of the south carolina delegation are going to be coming here to new hampshire. all of this sort of mendez an affront, a gut punch to nikki haley. she herself, a favorite daughter of south carolina, having members of the south carolina delegation starts to come out here, that is really, frankly, meant to be a kick in

the face to someone like nikki haley as she tries to build momentum and you know that is done purposely on the part of the trump team, ali. >> vaughn, let's talk about the people who have been coming. out the entrance pulling that we had in iowa, the sentiment we're getting from these trump supporters who are coming out and bigger numbers for him than they ever did in 2016. and after that. what's the basis of it? we've been talking. we've been talking a little while ago with tom nichols and matthew that about the grievance politics, the vengeance politics, the idea that people have got a remarkable emotional connection to donald trump that they typically don't have to a candidate. >> right, even if one third of the republican electorate, ali, we're maga republicans or those sympathetic to donald trump, only one third of republicans actually thought the election was stolen, it would still be an uphill battle for ron desantis and nikki haley, but that's not a reality. a majority of the party are maga republican.

so, the electorate identifies itself, two thirds of iowa republicans say they believe the 2020 election was stolen. , so for donald trump appealing to that loyal base of support is all he needs. and that is where you see nikki haley you know, really make the case that she is the true conservative in this race, tempting just yesterday that she came into office as governor of south carolina as a tea party republican, saying she is not a moderate by any means. that is a recognition that this is a republican electorate that is not moderate. it is maga conservative. so, for donald trump, it feels like he has a stronghold and frankly, that's where tim scott, at least stefanik, the rest of these elected officials around the country, are fully aware of that data as well, and that's why you see this coalescing support around him, because there is a belief that not only is donald trump the leader of the republican party, but a majority of the republican electorate today and in states around the country wants his type of politics in his type of

leadership in not only the white house, but in states like their own. >> yeah, it's a remarkable story we're watching unfold and we're grateful to you and ali for covering it for us. ali vitali antjuan hillyard in manchester, new hampshire, thanks, friend. appreciated. we're nearing two years since russia invaded ukraine. after the break, a former united states ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, joins me to discuss the implications of the recent string of ukrainian attacks inside russia. the standstill along the battlefields front line, and the rule of the u.s. election will have in the future of the fight. er together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. voya helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing across all your benefits and savings options. so you can feel confident in your financial choices. ♪♪ they really know how to put two and two together. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected.

this election is a choice between they really know how to put two and two together. results or just rhetoric. californians deserve a senator who is going to deliver for them every day and not just talk a good game. adam schiff. he held a dangerous president accountable. he also helped lower drug costs, bring good jobs back home, and build affordable housing. now he's running for the senate. our economy, our democracy, our planet. this is why we fight.

i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. ma, ma, ma— ( clears throat ) for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops. with two times more menthol per drop, and powerful vicks vapors to vaporize sore throat pain. vicks vapocool drops. vaporize sore throat pain. we are just over a month away from the second anniversary of russia's full-fledged invasion of ukraine, which, as my ukrainian friends remind me, actually started ten years and one month ago, on february 20th, 2014, when russia invaded and eagles

illegally annexed crimea in the south and invaded and claimed territory in donetsk and luhansk that east. now, ukraine appears to be increasing attacks north of its border inside russia. yesterday, a ukrainian drone dropped munitions on an oil depot in the southern russian town of klinsky, causing an inferno, according to rational officials. of the second attack on russian oil facilities in three weeks. it came the day ukraine publicly claimed responsibility for a drone attack on an oil depot in st. petersburg, which as you could see, is quite far from ukraine. that's st. petersburg over there. here's ukraine. it's the first time that northern region of leningrad, or st. petersburg is located, it has been hit. noticeably, while it used to be rare for ukraine to publicly comment on attacks inside of russia, let alone take responsibility, that's changing. speaking of the world economic forum in davos, switzerland, the ukrainian minister for strategic industries, oleksandr commission, said the drone behind the attack was ukrainian maine and only cost $350 to

make. importantly it also said quote, i'm sure we will see more and more things happening. as for the war theater inside ukraine, russia now holds roughly 20% of ukraine, with ukraine's 2023 counteroffensive failing to win back significant territory. fighting along the 600-mile front it's essentially a stalemate, with neither side making significant territorial gain or subsequent, significant territorial losses in several months, walker taking to suffer massive amounts of casualties. rachel also continues to employee strategy of trying to evoke terror amongst the citizenry, conducting missile and drone attacks far from the front line fighting. on cities, including the capital city of kyiv. now, in addition to death and the structure, and these attacks are also depleting ukraine's already diminishing stockpiles of defensive weaponry. it remains to be seen to what level that weaponry will be replenished with foreign aid.

european weapons stockpiles are themselves starting to diminish, as is europe's appetite for a prolonged war, and tensions have started to bubble to the surface. notably, around trade, for example, polish truckers only this week lifted a major two months-long blockade on checkpoints on the border with ukraine. preventing trucks filled with goods and aid from traveling into and out of ukraine, snarling trait straining relationships between those two nations. the polish protesters contend due to rules implemented following russia's invasion, ukrainian drivers are not subject to eu rules on working hours and wages, and that is hurting business on the polish side. europe is also closely watching the ongoing funding fight here in the united states. president biden asked congress for 60 billion dollars more in aid for ukraine. republicans have balked, tying it to border, broader funding for border security, and that's if members of the gop actually

support additional aid for ukraine at all, with an increasing number taking their cue from the head of the party, the front runner for the republican nomination, donald trump, calling for an end to u.s. support for ukraine. however, the war may not even make it to the november election, with nbc news reporting how dire the biden administration deems the situation inside ukraine to be. according to two people familiar, on wednesday, president biden's top aides, the national security adviser, jake sullivan, and the director of national intelligence, avril haines, told congressional leaders and a private meeting that without additional military aid for ukraine in the coming days, ukraine will run out of certain air defenses and artillery capabilities in the coming weeks. and russia could win the war in a matter of weeks or months at best. joining me now is the former united states ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. he is a professor of international studies at, of political's, and political science at stanford university, and he's nbc news international affairs analyst. cc author of several important

books, including from cold war to hot peace, an american ambassador in putin's russia. ambassador mcfaul, thank you for being with us. i thought it necessary to sort of reset where we are in this war, because it is almost two years. fatigue sets. and it's not people's primary thing. we're talking about domestic politics a lot. so, what a thing it would be, though, for ukraine to lose what it's done in two years because we've got a sort of skirmish going on in congress? >> first of all, alec, that was a fantastic sam summary. and then use it my class next week. i will re-read the recording, that was perfect because you hit on all of the dimensions, and in particular, how this relationship between our domestic politics and the future of the war in ukraine is a, dire, as you pointed out. ukrainians are going to die if we don't get this aid to them. civilians, as you're shopping right now, as well as soldiers on the ground, they are already rationing they are ammunition.

but be, this is in america's national security interests. if putin wins in ukraine, he will be threatening our allies on the border. i was just in lithuania several days ago, and talking to lithuania and and pulls and latvian's in the stony and, the metaphor there right now is the 1930s. first, ukraine, than us. and if that happens, we're going to have to spend more money. we're going to have to spend, send more american soldiers to those frontline states, and the specter of a possible military conventional war between us and russia will go up. so, it's clearly in our national interest to get this done. by the way, when you actually look at previous votes, majorities in the u.s. congress, majorities in the senate, support this. it's just gotten entangled in other things. we've got to untangle it, and we have to do what's right for ukraine and what's right for the united states of america. >> so, here's the problem.

you. right this has almost been universal, the support for activities against an adversary, particularly in support of ukraine. generally, it's been a couple sticks in the mud in congress, of course, donald trump, who wanted to interfere for his own personal good. but there is an erosion. are you worried about how far that erosion can go? there are certainly republicans now, including some who are running for president, who said it's not our business. republicans in america have started to become quite isolationists. >> yes, i am worried about it. and the solution to that is to give ukrainians aid so they begin to win. if the ukrainians aren't winning, remember, we talked a lot last year in the fall of 2022, when the ukrainians were winning. everybody wanted to be on their side. everybody was glad to show up to meetings to support ukraine. the stalemate that you just talked about, and by the, way it's a stalemate on both sides. everybody needs to remember that. it's not just ukrainian counter offensive that did not achieve its objectives.

the russian counteroffensive last year did not, either. we don't like that, so, the way to change that is to give them the aid to help them win. but if we don't, i am glad you use that word isolationist. because that is exactly what happened in the 1930s here in the united states. we were focused at home. we were dealing with the great depression, and when the japanese went into china, we said, well, that's not a problem. that's far away. italians went into ethiopia, people said, where is ethiopia? you know, hitler began to take different parts of eastern europe, and finally, even invaded poland in 1939, and we still put our head in the sand and said, that's not our problem. two years later, it tragically became our problem. that's when the japanese attacked us, so, rather, historians to write about this say, had we've been in there for the get-go in, the mid 30s, early, we might have been able to deter hitler and japan, so,

that's exactly the lesson we need to know now. to tour ukraine. help ukraine win, to deter russia and putin from expanding this war now, so we don't have to deal with these even more disastrous consequences down the road. >> i want to stick to this issue of deterrence, because as you were speaking, we've just had some brand-new news regarding yemen and the houthis, and they want to ask this to you. that u.s. centcom has confirmed it has conducted another round of airstrikes in the red sea, sinking three who feet and i ship missiles on the gulf of aiden. so it comes as they were preparing to launch. those muscles post an imminent threat. the argument from the u.s. government ambassador is that this is largely meant to deter the houthis and ultimately, iran, from getting further involved in spreading the israel gaza war into something bigger. your analysis of this? >> i agree completely. it's actually very and i will

guess to what we were just talking about. attack these houthi terrorists, remember who they, are now, deter them from attacking us, because if we don't, that will in bolden everybody else, including the iranians. so, i think that's exactly the appropriate response. tragically, the right response, and it doesn't mean they're going to stop today, but we have to respond when we are being threatened. when civilians are being attacked or we are being threatened to attack, because it sounds like that's just what happened today. >> ambassador, good to talk. thanks for joining us. michael mcfaul is a former united states ambassador to russia. he's a current international studies and political science professor at stanford university. -- he's also the author of cold war to hot peace, an american ambassador in putin's russia. right, next, americans are feeling better about the economy lately, and for good reason. last, night after this. it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms, like carpal tunnel syndrome,

shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could be something more serious called attr-cm, a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist, and ask about attr-cm. having triplets is... -amazing -expensive. so, we switched to the bargain detergent, but we ended up using three times as much and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back with tide, and the clothes are clean again. do 3x the laundry and get a tide clean. it's got to be tide.

here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. it was a record day on wall

street yesterday as the s&p 500 closed at an all-time high. and while the stock market is not always an indicator of a healthy economy, this s&p milestone is in line with consumer sentiment and other positive benchmarks for the economy, quote, americans are suddenly a lot more upbeat about the economy, end quote. that is the headline from the wall street journal. as the article goes on to detail, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone why we are starting to become more upbeat about the economy. according to the university of michigan's survey of consumer, consumer sentiment climbed 30% this month to its highest level since july of 2021. that jump consumer sentiment often goes hand in hand with the price of gas, which has fallen 40% since june of 2022. according to aaa. and on top of all, that inflation easing, gas prices falling, wage growth, there's another boom that no one really expected. a u.s. oil boom. the republican front runner,

who said he would be dictator for one day only, said it was because he wanted to put, drill, drill, drill. and quote. well, without donald trump, the united states is now producing more oil than any country ever in history. more than russia, more than saudi arabia. the supreme court heard two cases this week having to do with fishermen and fishing boats, but the fisheries are not the hook here. these cases could up and have the american government functions. more, after this. , after this and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt.

my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. when you shop wayfair, for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. you get big deals for your home - every day.

so big, we'll have you saying... am i a big deal? yeah you are, because it's a big deal, when you get a big deal. wayfair deals so big that you might get a big head. because with savings so real - you can get your dream sofa for half the price. wayfair. it's always a big deal. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ oooohhh, it is cold outside time to protect your vehichle from winters wrath of course the hot sun can be tough on vehicles too you need weathertech all year round! come on, protect your investment laser measured floorliners and cargoliner will shield the carpeting from sand and snow for your interior, there's seat protector and sunshade plus, mudflaps and bumpstep for the exterior order american made products at weathertech.com surfs up yeah, right this week, the supreme

court heard two cases that have the potential to upend government function as we know it. the cases, low per bright and prices versus raimondo, and another, aptly called relentless versus the department of congress, commerce, or on the surface, about fishing boats that because of epa requirements, are mandated to foot the bill for an inspector whose job is to basically oversee the boats to prevent overfishing. the fishing companies don't want to pay for the inspectors, and have argued it's unconstitutional for the epa to mandate that rule. but what's really at stake here has very little to do with fishermen or the cost of the inspectors. what's really at stake here is a 40 year old legal doctrine called chevron deference, which gives federal agencies the authority to make decisions regarding areas and their expertise, where congress has not given explicit or an

ambiguous direction. federal agencies are run by experts, all of whom are aggression ali approved. nearly 20,000 laws, standards, and protections upon which we rely today were arrived at based on agency deference. for example, the epa, or the environmental protection agency, makes decisions on human health and the environment. and congress may leave certain aspects or parameters of the law for the epa to determine. that is, when congress agrees that okay, sure. we should have clean air, or a clean water, but doesn't specify how exactly we should get clean air or clean water. then, it will defer to these agencies, like the epa, and the environmental scientists and the experts who work for that agency to determine the laws and guidelines for how we can get to that goal. now, these agencies, among other functions, are the regulatory bodies upon which we rely in nearly every aspect of our daily lives. the environmental protection

agency regulates pollutants, the department of transportation comes apostates the standards for cars and highways. the u.s. department of agriculture makes sure our food is safe. the fda determines which drugs are available to us. osha, department of labor, keep workers safe and protect workers rights. experts at the department of health and human services help our health care policy adapt to emergencies, changing technology, and informs health care decisions that have an impact on more than half of the country's population. chevron differences rooted in the belief that agency experts and not courts have subjects area expertise to inform and implement laws with the appropriate nuance. that conservative groups that have, for decades, been working to undo chevron in order to limit agency power and to limit regulatory authority. for instance, back in 2018, then white house counsel to president trump said, it said it outright at the conservative political action conference quote, there is a coherent plan

here where actually, the judicial selection and the the regulatory efforts are really the flip side of the same coin, and quote. on wednesday, the conservative majority on the supreme appeared exceptionally sympathetic to the fisherman's case, and increasingly hostile towards the chevron precedent. if the supreme court overturned chevron, as it appears poised to do, it would drastically shrink the power of federal agencies to regulate much of anything at all. which means private businesses and corporations may have more ability to challenge and violate regulations, like environmental regulations, food safety regulations, trading and financial regulations, just to name a few. the knock on effect of overturning chevron is difficult to calculate, because it has the potential to have an impact on nearly every facet of our government and of our daily lives. after a quick break, the great melissa murray joins me to further explain what's at stake here. t stak here as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum.

you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. honey... honey... nyquil severe honey. powerful cold and flu relief with a dreamy honey taste. nyquil honey, the nighttime, sniffing, sneezing, couging, aching, fever, honey-licious, best sleep with a cold, medicine. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these

in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save.

learn how abbvie here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. and was say, the supreme

court heard two very important cases that could weaken the power of federal agencies. joining me now, melissa murray, professor of law at nyu, co-host of the strict scrutiny broadcast and an msnbc legal analyst. melissa, thank you for being with us. i appreciate having you here. look, i think we have to start with the understanding of why regulations exist and whether they are valuable and onerous.

and we scan the arguments to make it seem like it's black and white. it's entirely possible we have too much regulation in some cases or, it's not appropriate where we put regulation, but for many people, regulation exist as a protection. a protection your water is not polluted. a protection your air is not polluted. that your meat is not spoiled when you buy it from the shot, that your paint doesn't have let it. so, how do we think about this ongoing multi-decade effort to crush regulation? >> it's a terrific question. as you suggest, ali, the fact that the herring fishermen here is something of a red herring. because this case is not necessarily about mom and pop fisheries, but, rather about the deep pocketed corporate interests who have been hostile to regulation for sometime. so, as you say, we live in a regulated environment all the time. it's what creates a safe environment for all of us. the air that we breathe, the water that we drink, the food that we eat, the things we put on our face, the drugs that we consume, all of those things are subject to federal

regulation. agencies staffed by experts who know what kinds of particulate matter should be in the air, and what kind should not be. how much of that particular matter should be in the air, how much should. not all of those things rely on science backed, evidence-based expertise that agencies, as opposed to the legislature, has. so, congress can write a law, but the laws often open textured and broad. congress can't see around corners. so, they are anticipating things that will come up in the future, but they can't really specify what they are. so, they write these laws and they delegate considerable authority to federal agencies to determine how to actually implement the law with regulations. the problem for these corporate interests, though, is these regulations often make it more expensive for corporations and corporate interests to operate. so if you are operating a workforce where osha has regulated and said you can't have large things hanging overhead, because it might be a threat to the safety of your workforce, well, you've got to figure out how to operate without all of those things. perhaps you have to take more

expensive steps to make your workplace safe. that makes it more expensive for you to operate. similarly, if you are a large factory and the epa says you can't amid your waist into the water stream, you've got to figure out another way to shift that off. and that becomes more expensive. so, these corporations are really hostile to the prospect of regulation because it makes it more expensive for them to operate and more expensive, and less likely they will have the kind of outsized profits that they seek. >> it's useful to understand how regulations come to be. some are common sense. come from investigations or tragedies or things like that. some come from lawsuits, where things happened and you realized, oh there is a pollutants here or there is something that's causing people to get sick. that way these arguments are framed makes it seem like, and it started with ronald reagan, it's this idea that it's all this nefarious effort by government to be bigger, control more, take more of your taxes. >> that's the irony, because this case, chevron, was decided in 1984, and a conservative

court with many conservative justices all decided it was appropriate in that situation, where there was an ambiguous statute, to defer to the reagan administration's epa, in the interpretation of this federal law on the regulation resulting from its. it just so happened that the reagan administration's epa was not so great on regulating industries. so, it was a pretty toothless regulation, and it was cheered by conservatives who wanted a murder regular deregulated environment. the problem, of, course from the reagan administration wasn't a place forever. we have face oscillating political winds. sometimes, there's a democratic administration, and regulation might be more forceful, more in keeping with environmental thinking about how to make a safer environment, and then it becomes more expensive for corporate interests, they basically decided that now that they have a federal judiciary stop movement with conservatives who have antipathy for this kind of regulation, rather than deferring to agencies, they should just let the courts decide this statues are ambiguous, and that has precipitated the antipathy for

chevron deference, and that is what has brought us to this moment at the supreme court. >> one of the things the justices have to consider is that if they overturn chevron, and effectively, diminish or take away agency power, what's the alternative? what happens then? because it has the effect of eliminating the regulatory authority of all of those agencies that i have on the screen, what happens? there are hundreds of thousands of regulations on the books. do they go away? this congress have to take them all? what's the alternative? >> i think there are two scenarios. one that was contemplated an oral argument is just a shift back to congress to make these decisions. as we know, congress is famously polarized and -- not much of a chance that congress is going to be able to put out the kinds of regulations in enough time, and at the pace that needed to address some of these issues. it's also not clear that legislators have the expertise to actually do this. so, imagine marjorie taylor greene making decisions about particulate matter. i mean, again, some of these questions require deep-seated expertise that the average

legislator doesn't have. so, that leads the federal courts. so again, rather than deferring to agencies, we might understand this entire case as a power grab for the federal courts. the courts will decide when a statue is ambiguous, and, then we will decide on what the most reasonable interpretation of the statute is. if you have a federal judiciary that has been stocked with movement conservatives for a long time,, we'll you can imagine where this is going in terms of the prospect of a regulated environment. >> alyssa, this is an ongoing issue. we've talked about it a couple times. republican have to talk about it several more. but i appreciate the clarity you break through it. melissa murray is an msnbc legal analyst, a professor of law at nyu, and a co-host of the strip scrutiny podcast. all, right they jerusalem erica democracy but donald trump cannot be understated. the republican party's support to trump's unshakable. another hour of velshi begins right now.

good morning, it's saturday january the 20th. i'm ali velshi. in three days, the three remaining candidates to the republican nomination will face off in the new hampshire primaries. rod desantis, nikki haley, and donald trump are all holding events throughout the state this weekend. in a normal presidential election year, this race would really be ramping up right now. we will be talking about momentum from iowa, how the independents will line up in the new hampshire and who would last through south carolina and make it to super tuesday, but this is not a normal year this. is the post trump era of american politics, and anyone who has been paying attention to the republican party has long since concluded that the twice impeached multiple indicted former president will be the last man standing. that is how thoroughly he has taken over the gop. the former presidents decisive victory in iowa monday resulted in the republican party consolidating its support for him even more. this week, trump officially securee