reality in this country. they still exist in so many cases. we had legislation put in place from the fair housing act of the civil rights act to the voting rights act. because this country has identified itself with racism. we still have a long way to go, although we made progress. when haley says the civil war was about states rights, when she says america is not a racist country, she's catering to a group of people who continue to reject her and her notions in the ballot box in the very handsome fashion. >> antjuan murray, not so nice to talk to today. thank you very much. in moments the intersection of donald trump's trials and his campaign. the case the troubles in the most, ahead. plus, a new tactic used by trump's defense. will that hold water? congressman jason crow of the intelligence community joins. they also, the extremely troubling number facing the police on capitol hill. former u.s. army general will talk about this.

good day from msnbc reports. welcome to alex reports. i'm christine romans in for alex today. we begin at a live look at the beautiful snow scene in pittsburgh new hampshire. the big story today, of course, as the countdown to tuesdays first-in-the-nation primary. it is a busy day for republicans as well as democrats making closing arguments for voters. they're nikki haley and donald trump are holding in-person events this weekend and new hampshire while rhonda santas is putting more of his chips on south carolina. from the democratic side, president joe biden is not on the ballot. his supporters are staging a write in campaign. his challengers, congressman dean phillips and author mary and williams are stumping for votes ahead of the states unsanctioned democratic primary. nikki haley's camp just got some good news today. a new polls shows her as a republican favor in new hampshire a head to head

general election match with president biden. trump is expected to win the republican primary tuesday. he will speak at a rally in manchester in the next few hours. meanwhile, nbc's shaquille brewster zoning that for some new hampshire voters, making the decision this year it is turning out to be more of a challenge than they thought. >> there is a lot on the table this time and i think in the past it has always been, oh, we are clearly gonna vote for this person. we are clearly gonna vote for this person. but this time there is a lot of thought on both sides this time around. you

continue the polling to see him hold on to dominating among the republican voters. the question here in the state and hampshire is, how many

registered independents will take part in this primary process? in order to take part in iowa, for example, that caucus, people would've had have gone and change the party registration. that is not the case. here experts in new hampshire expect anywhere from 40 to 44% of those who turned out to be those independent voters. that is the type of electorate that nikki haley is gonna be looking for. for donald trump, he is going to have really rely on that maga base of support that he is seeing come out time and again for him. at this rally here tonight, we are expecting it to be potentially hundreds of thousands of folks here. i was asking him talking on campaign senior rather last night who said, does donald trump potentially provide a soft landing for nikki haley and ron desantis? instead of going on the attack here in the final days before new hampshire, instead does he see a better option to provide them a soft landing instead of taking a cudgel to them in the final days trying to end this once and for all. the senior director told me, quote, we will let the chips

fall where they may. for donald trump we saw last night him continuing to go on the attack against nikki haley. there is no reason we should expect him to stop doing that here tonight. >> let's go to nbc's ali vitali in manchester, new hampshire. the final days in the primary the latest tactic is challenging the former president's mental acuity. tell us what she is saying and what she is going off of. >> they are saying he got confused. he was talking about something else. he was talking about nancy pelosi. he mentioned me multiple times in that scenario. the concern i have is, i'm not saying anything derogatory. but when you are dealing with the pressures of a presidency, we can't have someone else that we question whether they are mentally fit to do this. we can't. >> clearly her strategy here,

what was she talking? about what was the episode that led up to this? >> her strategy here christine has been to try to link former president trump with current president joe biden in the minds of voters. repeating over and over again the refrain of trump and biden, biden and trump. when we talk about the need for the next generation of leadership. it is really trump that has allowed her to record of those remarks that you heard her say there. trump is the one who, last night during a rally, made one of his frequent refrains about nancy pelosi's role in january six. him saying that she denied security asked that should've been in place for the capital on the day of the insurrection. instead of saying, nancy pelosi. donald trump said, nikki haley. haley now coming at him and saying that there are questions about his mental fitness. not only that, she's talking about the fact that members of the south carolina delegation, a favorite daughter of south carolina, a former governor

there, trump is trying to tout out various members of her home state to try to emphasize the fact that he has support not just here in new hampshire but also in south carolina. haley was asked about that. saying rather sarcastically that, i'm sorry, referencing governor henry mcmaster. it is that the person i ran against her governor and be? just checking. her top endorser here, chris the new, responding yet another nearly 80 year old trying to make it impact. we are watching haley not only sharpen her attacks against trump but also make age essential issue. it is usually a cota they level against joe biden. now he is leveling it against both biden and trump. >> am i right she turns 42? today right? today is her birthday? >> it is indeed her birthday today. nothing better to underscore the age factor than a birthday on the campaign trail. >> nice to see, you ali. not nbc's dr. burns with the desantis campaign. the florida governor decided to skip mantra for the weekend. instead campaigning in south carolina. he was in the state yesterday.

but he's putting more of his chips in south carolina. polling a distant third in new hampshire. have you given up on the state? hampshire. >> i don't think his campaign would put it that way but all of the signs certainly point to the kind of message. look, from the beginning the strategy was to make this a two-person race. at the onset they thought that would be a whole lot easier to do. they certainly did not think it was gonna take this long. now they're looking at south carolina as the place to get that done. i had a chance to speak to david polyangiites, deputy campaign manager last night, to press him on what their path is going forward. take a listen to what he told me. >> this is not a one storey strategy game plan. this is in for the long haul. south carolina is next up on the primary calendar. we know nevada is nicked up on the caucus calendar. we are just focused on grinding the south, locking out all the

noise. doing what we said from the beginning. we are gonna go and fight for every delegate in every state. go to south carolina and knock nikki haley out of the race. it will be a two-person race heading into march between donald trump and ron desantis. >>, they believe that the timeline here the one month or so between nancy and south carolina to use the iowa playbook to move their staff, they're all of the resources to that state, trying to rally support there and potentially tried to be nikki haley and stop her in her home state. i will hope the time they have -- well they have the resources to do so. you can only do so much if you only have a certain menomonie coming in. that is really what we watching. for they put their eggs in iowa basket. they have them in the south carolina basket. being able to have the long haul strategy they are talking

about there. >> thank you so much for that. on tuesday, rachel maddow leads primary analysis with steve comanche at the big board and jen psaki covering the most on the ground. it all begins tuesday, six pm eastern, right here on msnbc. next, 400 million reasons to stick around and watch something down trump said in a videotape deposition. back in 60 seconds. but i like this. get a light scent that lasts with no heavy perfumes or dyes. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm.

(christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. sound like you? so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. > a new twist in what had become an unexpected sideshow of the georgia election interference case the dawn's donald trump. according to court filings obtained by nbc news, credit card records shows nathan wayne, special prosecutor in the case, purchased several plane tickets in special attorney fani willis's name. this comes as the two are alleged to having an alleged affair. on thursday, d.a. willis filed a blistering response to a subpoena to testify in the

weights divorce proceedings where she accused weights of strange life of trying to harass her and damage her professional reputation. joining me now is nbc news is melissa parr reporting from miami. what more can you tell us about these new allegations. they have new allegations against trump in georgia? >> you can imagine trump and his codefendants are certainly using this as an opportunity to try to get this case dismissed. remember, district attorney fani willis have been spearheading this year's long interference election interference case out of georgia. they have quite the incentive to try to get that moving forward. codefendant michael roman has been saying and making accusations of this love affair between willis and the special prosecutor, nathan weight. making allegations at the time without evidence of vacations between the two them at taxpayers expense. there is a court filing now that was filed on friday from nathan wades exchanged acts.

where you can see our according to critic art statements you have cruz tickets being bought, flights being bought, using nathan wades money for the two of them. for willis and wade. since these allegations first came out weeks ago, her office hasn't been making on the record comments. they have simply said they would be making statements through court filings. we did hear from willis in their first public appearance since the delegations broke out for the very first time last sunday. a guest speaker at a marinade searching service a van. she did not address the allegations, specifically. she did not address the needs and weighed by name. but she talked around him at links for several minutes throughout her 30 minutes speaking there. i want you to take a listen for yourself at what she says are racial implications behind the question of her hiring wade and the questions on her relationship with him. listen for yourself. >> i appointed three special

counsel, is is my right to do. a paid them all the same hourly rate. they only attack one. the first thing they say, oh she's gonna play the race card now. no, isn't it them who's playing the race card? they only question one. now >> as we talked about there was a court filing on thursday by willis's team. i'm going to read from a statement in just a moment from her team. in her statement she accuses wade's estranged acts of trying to damage your own reputation. saying, quote, she is using -- this is actually from nathan wades. we have the accusation from nathan weighed in a response. the civil discovery process to annoy, embarks, and oppress district attorney willis. what you have here is willis fielding hearings on the georgia election interference case that she has been spearheading for years that has been taking media coverage

spotlight right there. and now you have hearings related to her own relationship with way that starts on monday. there are several hearings happening in emergency hearing happening on monday and in mid february there's a lot of hearing on this. christine, a lot happening simultaneously. >> thank you for bringing us up to speed. let's bring in tristan snow former assistant new york attorney general. he let the investigation and prosecuted the fraud case against trump university. in his book, taking down trump. 12 rules were taking down trump apple comes out in ten days. these developments, the sideshow as we. sad unwanted and unforeseen sideshow. how do these developments in the fulton county case, how do you see them? could they have any kind of effect on the prosecution in trump's election racketeering case? i'm >> this is definitely a sideshow. we are talking about things that are small potatoes compared to donald trump

engaging in illegal actions to try to overturn the 2020 georgia election results and defy the will of the people in the majority of georgia voters. the thing that fani willis is being accused of, what's next? news flash, fani willis did not return her libra boats. oh no, fani willis had parking tickets. we are talking about things that are not relevant to the bigger issues here. it's all part in parcel of covering this in-depth in my book of trump counterattacking, trying to create diversions and distractions to go after a prosecutor. this is in the same vein of him threatening other prosecutors and judges as he's doing in these other cases it should be treated in the same light. >> tristan, we have been going through trump's deposition video released yesterday in the new york civil fraud trial. a lot of material there. here is some of his testimony on, specifically, how he values his properties.

>> we have the mona lisa of properties. we have properties that make money, but you can sell them many, many, times because of the quality of the property. i could sell the property in scotland, it's like selling a painting. >> the mona lisa properties? why did this explanation not help his case with the judge in new york? >> this has nothing to do with anything! it made looked like he was all over the place. this is not going to help him with e. jean carole. all he did here was effectively highlight the fact that he is lying in other business matters. thereby it is probably, potentially, lying regarding whether or not he -- why would you bring in of the other misdeeds that you're committing by inflating your property values in a case that he already lost, mind you? the court has already found

defamation here. the question is purely about damages. why would you bring up your other lies when trying to defend yourself against other lies and misdeeds you committed in this case? he is just all over the place now. >> trump says he plans to take the stand when the e. jean cairo case resumes on monday. do you see this deposition video having impact on how the damages are assessed in that e. jean carroll case? he is boasting about how much money has. >> that is exactly right. that is exactly right. he's basically running around bragging that he is a super successful billionaire. i had ten billion to the net worth of's overall portfolio. . the court is gonna look at that and say gray maybe we should be upping the damages awarded. maybe we should be awarding e. jean carroll even more than her lawyers are asking for. i think they are ready to set an example here because it is

not just going to be an isolated incident. he keeps on defaming her, over and over and over again. he's doing it up to the present day. just as we saw in the case as we saw with rudy giuliani. the court they're awarded a much higher damages award because rudy giuliani seems to be acting with impunity and brazenly refusing to back down. i think we may be about to see the same against trump. this does not help him at all. againstif he takes the stand, s only gonna make things worse. >> his lawyer is filing r a mistrial in this case. when trump attended a hearing, judge lewis kaplan rebuked caplan from the bench several times. he seemed to be schooling her in some basic law school one-on-one. you shared this on acts. he did not appear to know the rules of evidence, how to address it, just get evidence admitted. one must stand one objecting. what do you think happened here?

>> what happened here is, and this is also something that a good two in the book, trump kind of wheels out a clown car of attorneys. he rotates them in an. out fires them, requires them. how about was involved in this case, a similar case early on and then she was benched and now she has been brought back. it's the same alina habba, her and her team are the ones that failed to check off the box task very a jury in the new york a.g. civil fraud case. the simplest of things that she or team were either missing or forgetting to do, or they purposefully didn't do and should've. we are in completely uncharted territory of a total clown car insanity here with trump and his lawyers. that seems to be only getting worse. this whole situation only appears to be spiraling. yes, that reminded me a lot of

being a law student, my second year of law school. taking the trial advocacy class. having the federal judge who taught the class give us a hard time and be quite snarky with things like, you didn't stand up when you objected. you know? those are lessons you remember the rest your life. we hopefully learn them as a law student, not when you are trying the biggest case of your life. >> fascinating. tristan's now, so much to follow here. thank you so much for your expertise on that. good luck with the book. what voters are saying with three days to go before the mantra primary. also, you don't have to look hard to find it. a really concerning item in this rolling stone article. every awful saying trump has promised to do in a second term. i will talk about this with retired general later this hour.

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and while it is eezing, that the republican campaigns are heating, up with three days to go before the first in the tionrimary. one number to consider, 4000. that is approximately the number of democrats who have re-registered as republicans or independents to vote in the gop primary. the goal of some of these voters, to thwart donald trump's march to the nomination. and here's a live look at nikki haley, she is in --

now, talking to reporters -- is in laconia new hampshire, talking to voters. she joins us once again. how are people reacting to what is looking like it's going to be another biden trump battle for the presidency? >> well let me put it like this? we are at a location where there is arcades, there are video, games there are ski ball. people are here to have fun. the cape the places called fun spot. and then next to them i can't and ask about politics. and i asked about a potential matchup between joe biden and donald trump, that consistently person after person, their smiles have turned into frowns. i want you to listen to some of those responses, when i say it's not just the primary coming up, but the primary could determine who you see in the general election. and this is who it is looking like it may be. listen to what they say. >> what is going on in your head when you look at polls and see that it is likely that it is going to be joe biden and donald trump again? >> that's disgusting. >> i just -- you know you have biden on one,

side in age -- trump on one side he is starting to age and those are you two front-runners. >> i think it is more just the two party system that doesn't really, i think they're all the same. you know and. >> and look, i think that sentiment is important, even in this crucial republican primary. and that is because that is what nikki haley is trying to tap into. and that is a big message that you are hearing from her campaign. i was at one of her events last night in manchester, and she was making the point that if you don't want to see that rematch, then come over into my campaign, come over and support me. the thing here is in new hampshire, you have undeclared voters, independents as they are known in much of the country. they have the ability to pick up a republican ballot, even if they take away a vote for a democrat. and i have been hearing in some of the conversations i've been having here in across the state of new hampshire, there are democrats, people who consider themselves democrats who are registered independent, who are

considering doing just that. and others who are independent and just don't like the options, who are considering nikki haley for that reason. polling suggests that she has a lot of ground to make up here in the state. the latest poll showing that she is down double digits, but that speaks to that sentiment that you heard and that sound there from people who are just trying to have a good time on a saturday. that is why there is some optimism on her side of the campaign, because people don't like the options and the likely options for the general election >> everybody is having a good time until you are asking them about politics. [laughter] shaquille -- nice to see you >> while you gotta do it all in a days work. now to nbc -- 's in concord with the details on a write in campaign for president biden. mika, are biden supporters excited to go out and write his name in? is their motivation there despite all the politics? >> well -- this is the fifth new hampshire primary i have covered. i've never covered one like this where the candidate is not even in the k state, the candidate is not even -- and supporters of the president

are holding events to try to generate that kind of enthusiasm for the right in canada. we just left a house party where they're giving out the science. you can see what they are trying to do, to point out you've got to write the name and you've got to fill in the oval. they want to sow some strength for the president even though he has made that decision to try to put south carolina at the front of the line. voters have different reasons for why they still want to support the president. i want to play some sound from one vote, or talk about how this race is shaping. up >> -- >> getting biden reelected, the best opportunity is to probably have trump as a front runner. because i feel that even though trump is pulling way ahead of all of the other candidates, i still think he is unpopular enough that he may lose to biden. >> so this is such an unusual situation. because the last time an incumbent president chose not to put his name on the ballot in new hampshire was 1968, lyndon johnson, who was a right in effort to support him. he only got 48% of the vote though. eugene mccarthy got 42%. a couple weeks later, lyndon

johnson decided not to seek a full term, so that is part of the game here, what is the number that president biden needs to get as a right and candid on tuesday, before democrats start to raise questions again about whether he should lead to the ticket. that is going to be part of what we are watching here on tuesday -- >> all right in concord, mike -- nice to see you, thank you so much sir. all right, about that security clearance. next, we will talk about a new defense tactic donald trump's legal team is considering in his classified documents case. congressman jason crow, a member of the house intelligence committee, will weigh in. , will weigh in

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east, where iran is accusing israel of launching an airstrike in syria today that killed at least five iranian military officials, raising fears of drawing iran into a wider conflict in the region. also today, a u.s. air strike destroyed a houthi anti ship missile in yemen, the latest in a series of strikes aimed at stopping the iranian-backed group from attacking ships in the red sea. and israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is rejecting plans for a palestinian state, as part of a post war plan. that's in spite of president biden pressing him to work toward a two-state solution in a phone call on friday. joining me now, democratic congressman from colorado jason crow. he is a former army ranger, and sits on the house intelligence and foreign affairs committees. congressman, so nice to see you today. you know, iran is accusing israel of killing five of his military advisethe strike

on syria. east expands, are you concerned that this is cracked opening another front in this conflict? >> well i am very concerned about the entire middle east, at this point. it's a bit of a tinderbox. you know as you said in your lead in, you have issues between israel and iran, you have the houthis attacking commercial shipping and u.s. military facilities in iran. you have iranian proxies going after u.s. bases. and of course, you have the israel hamas conflict, which continues to rage, and thousands of civilians are being caught in the middle of, and killed and wounded and -- corpses. and an unacceptable high level of casualties. so there are a lot of challenges right, now and that's why we are trying to make sure that we are with israel, our ally, not to further expand this conflict beyond where it already is. >> so iran has stopped short of a major escalation, but it has begun to directly target its

enemies, rather than sending out its proxy forces. as it often does. why would iran feel so emboldened now, and what can the u.s. do to keep iran at bay here? >> well, iran like most oppressive regimes, and rogue regimes, thrive when it's adversaries are kind of off balance. so they want conflict, they want the united states and its allies to be off balance here. so that's why they work through their proxy forces to attack installations. that's why they support the houthi militia group, to attack commercial shipping. just the more complicated they can make this for the united states and our allies, the better for them. the challenge is that it appears as though iran does not want them all out conventional conflict, so they have to be very careful, from their perspective, how far they push this. so this is a very tenuous position right now for everybody to be in, that's what we have continued to send tony blinken, the secretary of state over.

he has been over multiple times, and we are sending delegation after delegation -- and defense department to the middle east, to make sure that we are addressing this, and keeping our coalition together. >> the u.s. early this morning conducted another strike against those iranian-backed houthis, who say that they are targeting commercial ships in the red sea, in solidarity with the palestinians. here is president biden on thursday. >> what are the airstrikes in yemen working? >> well, but when you say working, are they stopping the houthis? no. are they going to continue? yes. >> i mean the big concern, congressman, is that chipping -- in the red sea could reignite inflation. if the strikes aren't working, are there other options the u.s. has, and should congress have a say in what the next steps should be? >> yeah, so what's going on here is we are conducting what are called defensive strikes, under article two of the constitution. so the president has authority to conduct strikes, lethal operations, when we are doing

so defensively. that is why we see them targeting missile sites, radar sites, command and control, for all of these rockets that are hitting u.s. operating basis, or trying to anyhow, trying to hit u.s. shipping navy vessels, et cetera. so these are defensive strikes. but at a certain point, it creeps over into constitutional authority, where you require congress to be involved under article one, where union authorization for the use of military force. so i'm keeping a very close eye on the longevity of this operation, the nature of this operation. and when the president has to come to congress to get authorization. because listen, you are not going to destroy a terrorist organization, you are not going to destroy a militia group, a proxy like the houthis, with military force alone. you're going to have to leverage diplomacy, you're gonna have to put a coalition together, you're going to have to remove from them the fuel that firesand pports these organizations. and you can't do that with military strikes alone. >> congressman, yesterday the president spoke with israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, the first time in a

month after netanyahu publicly rejected u.s. calls for a future palestinian state, as part of the postwar peace process. biden downplayed this disagreement, but how much does it complicate their relationship, as the u.s. looks to negotiate a way out of this war? >> well, i have long said that prime netanyahu doesn't totally have credibility here. i've lost faith in his ability to lead israel, there doesn't appear as though he has incentive to end this conflict. he is acting in ways that are inconsistent, just militarily and consistent with our belief to get the hostages back, that were taken on october 7th. he has undermined prior peace agreements, we have tried to strike a peace deal, and a two-state solution with the palestinians. so time and time again, he has shown a reluctance to act in a way that is consistent with u.s. interests, as well as the interests of israel. but our challenge, and the presidents challenge, is how do we put pressure and leverage on

israel to make sure that this doesn't escalate, that they have the right to defend themselves, which they do, and we will support their right to defend themselves. but the level of casualties that are occurring in gaza right now, and in fact in so many of these folks are on the verge of famine, that is unacceptable. that doesn't serve our interests, that doesn't serve israeli interests, there is a moral element to this, there is also a national security element to this. that's why i have called on the administration and others to put as much pressure for a drastic change in the way that this counterterrorism operation continues, because it is not going to solve anything. >> sir, you are a member of the intelligceommittee, i want to ask you in that capacity about this new defense that do trump's legal team is considering, in the federal cled documents case. themer esidents attorneys are ekg more information from utors, after they found trump may have held the department of energy's queue level clearance. which i guess is largely focus on nuclear secrets. and he had this clearance as recently as last year.

what can you tell us about q level security clearance. and is it standard procedure for former presidents to have, this once they leave office? >> well a q is an exceptionally high level of clearance, the highest in our government. but listen, here is the larger point. i am a parent, and a lot of parents can sympathize with this situation. if you get -- there is a broken base on the kitchen floor, and you ask your kids, how did the vase get broken? and they say well, the window was open, and air blue in it over. and you're like well, there is no window open, there is no window inside the house. and they say well the dog knocked it over. and you say well the dog is not actually at home today. and then they say well, there was an earthquake. well, there is no earthquake. trump has the same thing, he changes his reasoning, his defenses over and over again. he says that he thought, he literally declassified things by thinking it, that it could be declassified. and then he said that he had

the ability to store things in his bathroom, after he left the presidency, so he has no legitimacy. left he keeps on changing his rationale here, and i just don't believe anything he says at this point. >> all right congressman jason -- of colorado, nice to see you today, thank you so much. >> 8000, it is a sobering number to call police on capitol, we will explain that next. next with a dreamy honey taste. nyquil honey, the nighttime, sniffing, sneezing, couging, aching, fever, honey-licious, best sleep with a cold, medicine. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like... what is your glucose, and can you have more carbs? before you decide... with the freestyle libre 3 system... know your glucose and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. now the world's smallest and thinnest sensor... sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence, and lower your a1c. the number one cgm prescribed in the us. try it for free at freestylelibre.us. ♪♪ somedays, i cover up because of my moderate

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police investigated more than 8000 threats against lawmakers last year. the report comes days after the january 6th league security examiner expressed fears of a repeat attack on the capitol. retired army lieutenant general russell -- joins me now. he led that house speaker's task force to improve capitol security after the january 6th attack. he also led a joi task force coordinating military relief, remember, after hurricane katrina struck new orleans. general -- nice to see you. first, here is a look at the new numbers from capitol police.

8000 investigations in 2023, slightly lower than 2021, the year of course of the capitol attack. what do you make of these numbers? what do they tell you? >> well it speaks to the a use of the internet to send messages. anyone can sit at home, and on various websites, post threats, or they can send emails to -- threats. it's an expansion of the use of misinformation, and lies to put information out that inspire those who want to believe that the last election was stolen. those that tried to playwright misinformation about one sixth as being a tourist event, and not a domestic terrorist event. and, it degrades our democracy. and they're using this message

to send threats, vile threats, many of them over the weekend. and -- threats to officials, everyone from elected officials to voting administrators, now to even judges and federal prosecutors. it is getting out of control, and it is an epidemic in washington, where they go after people that they disagree with inside of the capital of the united states. >>yoknow, new york congressman dan goldman is trying to have his republican count, congresswoman elise stefanik censured for llin january six defendants and the convicted rioters, quote, hostages. at the same time, nbc news has an exclusive report saying she is at the top of trump's shortlist for -- picks for vp. trump calls her a killer, she is a killer, he says. here is a little bit about what got your attention from her interview on meet the press, listen. >> i have concerns about the treatment of january six hostages. >> -- what about 2020 -- four >> we will see if this is

a legal and valid election. >> will you only commit to certify the results. if president trump wins. >> if it means if they are constitutional. what we saw in 2020 was unconstitutional. >> sir, what concerns you about her remarks? >> well that's a dam shame. you know democracy is based on our constitution, and our justice system, laws and truth and trust. and she has lost all understanding of that, tried to pull refrain a lie that the last election after going through courts, many different courts, as were pursued by the former president. and justice having been served and documentations from everybody in the justice system, showing that that was a free and fair election. and she is passing misinformation, it speaks to the fact of how dangerous this woman would be inside of the white house, as the vice president, if the former president was to win an

election. she scares the heck out of me, because she speaks with confidence, and she is spewing lies, and she is creating mistrust among the american people, that our democracy can be stolen through lies and misinformation. and a woman of her stature, she should be censured, she should be called out for this, because people should have trust in their elected officials to tell the truth, and to uphold the constitution, and t use their information, air position to spread misiormation. and that is the problem we have got here, kr >> let me ask you about this, rolling stone is out with a new list of every awful thing trump has promised to do in a second term. and there it is, pardon january 6th rioters. for those who argue that the rioters were largely engaged in political speech, sir, the right to protest, the right to contest an election, where do you draw the line? >> you draw the line from what we call the right to -- first amendment, the right to

protest. this went from the right to protest to violence. they beat our police officers, 140 injured. they broke into the capitol, they spread feces on the floor of the capitol, they went in the speaker's office and took items out. that is not a peaceful protest. but their actions alone, what the maga crowd is asking us to do is don't believe our lying eyes, don't believe what you saw. this was a mob, a domestic terrorist event, that might have started as a protest, but it ended up as an insurrection act to overthrow our government. and thank god the capitol police, supported by the d.c. police, was able to maintain enough control, so that they could come back and complete the vote. we would have been in a constitutional crisis that, even if the police did not regain control of the capitol. and remember, it only happened after the former president told him it was time to go home, after he watched it for over

two hours, as they try to destroy the capitol. >> all right sir, retired army general -- nice to see you today sir, have a great best -- >> god bless america. >> thank you. next, better polish up on your french. there is a new legal term we are all going to have to learn, courtesy of donald trump's fight for immunity. jonathan alter is here to explain next. explain next

as former president trump awaits a ruling by a three judge panel on his immunity claim, he is speaking out on s truth social platform. writing this, all presidents must have complete and total presidential immunity, or the authority and decisiveness of the president of the united states will be stripped and gone forever. hopefully this will be an easy decision, god bless the supreme court! joining me now is author, journalist, an msnbc political analyst jonathan alter, who will be in the d.c. courtroom for the election interference trial scheduled to begin march 4th. john, nice to see you. first of all, what do you make of that rant on truth social?

>> well it's just more of the same from donald trump. i don't think it is going to have much impact on the supreme court, even though he appointed three members. those justices have ruled against donald trump in many cases, so the idea that they are his puppets is a figment of his imagination. >> john, you released what you e ubling a trump coup trial be the most fundamental test for the rule of law in american story. and you write this. if, as expected, a three judge panel made up of two biden appointees and won george h. w. bush appointee quickly upholds judge chutkan on the immunity question, trouble almost certainly appeal for an on -- on bank ruling, meaning a review by all 11 judges. talk was more about asking for this -- pardon my french, and what this could mean in terms of further delays. >> well there will be at least minimal delays, as the trump lawyers appeal for this ruling

by all 11 judges on the d.c. circuit. so this court, right now, by the way this is the only one of all of these trump criminal cases that is likely to go to trial before the 2024 election. so this one is the big case, i call it the coup trial. and at this point, the trump attorneys, when there is a ruling against them by this -- judge panel, likely this coming week, they have the right to appeal for all 11 judges, that's en bank, to potentially hear this appeal. they are likely to be denied in that as well, at least eight of the 11, based on their records, our analysis of their judicial records are very likely to rule against trump. meaning that you will not get a another hearing in a d.c. circuit. and at that point, you would appeal to the supreme court. but it might delay the process

for another few weeks. >> and john, finally, you say if trump is convicted, if he is, we should expect a tough sentence, based on the judges sentences in the january 6th cases. tell us more about what kind of a sentence you think we might see for trump, if convicted. >> well, it's a little hard to tell, because so many of the -- no charges don't have a lot of judicial decisions, in similar cases. on obstruction of justice, which is one of the counts, the maximum sentence of 20 years in prison, judge chanaya chutkan as you indicated has been throwing the book at january 6th holdings in the vein other cases that she has tried. the interrupting a congressional proceeding, that itself, that charge might be thrown out on appeal. we don't know what the penalty for that would be. and the same goes for some of these conspiracy charges that he is up on.

but people should know that it is likely that there will be a trial before the election, and it is likely that he will be convicted and sentenced before the election. he will not serve jail time, or other penalties before the election. because after the, trial he hat is going to appeal, and those appeals will go on for quite a long time. so anybody who wants to see donald trump in pinstripes is going to have to wait, probably a couple of years. >> well we know you will be in the courtroom, beginning march 14th, in the middle of a political season. and you have given us this, march fourth rather. and you have given us this very hopeful primer for the trial. thank you so much, jonathan alter, nice to see you today, have a great rest of your weekend. and that's going to do it for me this hour. i am christine romans, nice to see you. alex is back tomorrow at one pm eastern. up next, the meat weekend. ext, the meat weekend.