deep dives into what these institutions were, how they function, what's happening now, stories of the survivors. so that was the biggest thing for us to get the story out and get people talking about it. to allow those women a place to have a platform to talk and speak about their experiences. because it was a thing for it not be acknowledged. swept under the carpet. so that's the biggest positive of the show. >> reporter: and that does it for us this weekend. thank you for spending your sunday morning with us, we are going to be back, live, tomorrow morning at 6 am eastern. are you ready for that, you need to get your sleep. msnbc's the weekend starts right now. >> reporter: good morning, it is sunday, january 21st. i am alicia menendez with

symone sanders-townsend and michael steele. here are some of the stories we are following today. americans are finally feeling better about the economy and they are starting to credit president biden. rod chopra, the director of the consumer financial protection bureau is here in studio. plus, the national security council john kirby on the growing unrest in the middle east, president biden's latest call with netanyahu. and new developments in the fight to remove donald trump from the ballot, mark lance joins us -- to grab your coffee, settle in, welcome to the weekend. we begin in new hampshire, where the first votes will be cast in the republican primary in just 40 hours. nikki haley is now belatedly taking aim at donald trump openly questioning whether who's mentally fit to serve as president. hey these comments come after

trump seemed to confuse her with nancy pelosi at a recent rally. >> they're saying he got confused, they're saying that he was talking about something else, nancy pelosi, he mentioned me multiple times in that scenario. the concern i have is, i am not saying anything derogatory, but when you are dealing with the pressures of a presidency, we can't have someone else that we question whether they are mentally fit to do this. we can't. >> reporter: nbc's ali vitali is in new hampshire for us. ali, finally, you have nikki haley sharpening those attacks? >> reporter: yeah, finally sharpening those attacks. the question is whether or not it is coming too late, but we watched her make this really clear pivot while we're in iowa on the night of the caucus, and we carried it through all the way through now and likely to tuesday when voters will vote here. this idea that she's tying the former president to the current president as she tries to, if not subtly, been quite clearly,

introduce the idea that she thinks that both of them are struggling with their mental acuity. it is something we've seen republicans leverage against president biden multiple times. of course, the h concern is one that we hear often from voters as well. but the fact that haley is now lumping trump in with that, referencing the fact that they are both older generations of leadership, it really does fit with her prior theme of asking that she be the next generation of leader to lead the republican party. of course, the polls tell a story that this group is not yet ready to move on. but on the mental fitness front, while he is leveraging those attacks, it is now left to trump and his surrogates to defend against questions of, hey, are you noticing anything different here? this is how congressman elise toughened defended that statement to me just yesterday. watch. >> reporter: i mean, what do you make of that? >> that is not a mix up. the reality has -- >> she wasn't speaker. >> nikki haley is relying on democrats just like nancy pelosi to try to have a desperate showing in new york in new hampshire --

>> reporter: but he was talk about january 6th? >> president trump has not lost a step. he is stronger than he is today than he was in 2016 and he was in 2020. compare that to joe biden's weakness. >> reporter: and look, guys, i mean i think we can all agree that we've listened to trump make that rift about nancy pelosi and security on january six multiple times. it's clear he mixed up nikki haley's name for nancy pelosi's name. of course, if you're a surrogate for the former president, you can never really say he made a mistake. so i guess there's calm -- congresswoman stefanik try to make that point there. but it's clear he's mixing things up on the campaign trail. i've listened to him for years, so have all of us as we have covered him. this is a moment that has now allowed nikki haley and opening to say the quiet part out loud, that she had been trying to make a subtle point about here on the campaign trail. now she is just out here saying it. but >> reporter: elie, i'd like to pick up on the too little too late at this point. it is nice to see this movement towards clarity, 40 hours from

a vote. what is the residents on the ground, how are voters picking that up? at this point, they care, is this a misstep or misspeaking something that will change the trajectory of things? or is this just the last minute gasp of trying to make something happen when that could've been done six months ago? >> reporter: look, i stopped with my clear predicting business in 2016, but if you look at the trend lines in the polls, i do think this is a moment where it might be too little too late, especially where heavy only made those really clear comments in the last 24 hours. now voters here are paying attention, it is the same thing i saw on the ground in iowa. nikki haley will start a lot of her rallies asking, raise your hand if it's the first time that you're coming to see me. on friday night, almost the entire room of hands went up in a room of a few hundred people. that is notable, it shows you that people are tuning in, it is not surprising that it is

states like these, voters might be making late decisions. but i also think it depends on who you ask. and trump, of course, has done a consistently good job of being able to bring together the so-called maga faithful. everyone who will proudly stamp are next to their name, and defines themselves as a republican in the era of trump. nikki haley though, if you look at the polls that show trump leading,, haley has been able to cobble together some support and a coalition of people who are independents, maybe democrats who back in arc tolbert change their affiliation so they can play in the republican primary, i've met those voters, i've met so many voters who said they were trump in 2016, biden 2020, and now they're looking at haley in 2024. this is not a clear case of a party line binary,'s or your republican, or are you a democrat. instead, it is people who are trying to judge based on the person. but the people who are trying to judge based on the person, those are the nikki haley voters. and it's a question of if she can rally enough of them to

tried to get anywhere close to the former president, because it's still a republican primary, and republicans are still the ones that are most likely to vote here. so, yes, it could -- questioning department could be finding their way towards nikki haley anyway but. >> reporter: that makes a lot of sense of this point, ali vitali, as always, thank you so much for being with us. vitali, as always, thank you s >> reporter: joining us, now former republican congressman david jolly, he's an msnbc political analyst. david, i want to talk about ali's point about where nikki finds herself in this race 40 hours out from the voting. starting to sharpen her attack, as alicia noted the beginning, trying to draw some stark lines, i don't get it. at what point -- why now? what is the political calculation that makes you think that, oh, now i can go after the guy who's 40 points ahead of me, 40 hours from the

vote? >> michael, let's talk hard truths. it is 50 weeks in, and 50 weeks she had to make this case against donald trump. i don't believe that her current argument has four case of conviction, i think it's convenience, and desperation. it's the only argument she has left. donald trump gave her this gift. she would not be making this argument if donald trump had not stumbled. and you put all that together, and i think we're looking at nikki haley and we just have to realize that she is not really the real deal. she is one of three left standing, and they are looking at her as the alternative to donald trump. but she is not actually a legitimate alternative. people conflate her likability with strength and substance on the campaign trail, she is as raw a maga politician as the rest of them. she is unsteady, on holding donald trump accountable. she is unsteady and a bit dodgy when she's asked questions about row and dobbs. she likes to talk about her record in south carolina when it benefits her, but she likes

to dodge it when it hurts her. so she probably will out last rhonda's antis, but she revealed her to donald trump? no. he's the candidate with the momentum right now, she's trying to gain it, but it appears that she will come up short. >> reporter: david, it's symone sanders-townsend. we just saw confirmation that the new hampshire union leader, the conservative newspaper in new hampshire, has made their endorsement in this race and they've endorsed nikki haley. and they endorsed her saying that she's easily the most qualified candidate on either ballot. she said, where there was smoke, there is fire, referencing former governor chris christie's comments on the hotline, saying, he's going to get smoked. but saying that she's a thoughtful, smart, an experienced candidate. in a normal election cycle, the union leaders endorsement would i think move a substantial number of voters. but this is not a normal election cycle. what say you about this endorsement this morning?

>> very helpful for nikki haley in new hampshire. i think, as you all have talked, new hampshire is a state where you can bring over independent, even soft emigrated voters into the republican primary. it will play very well for her. and i do think it is important to acknowledge her experiences real. what you see in the endorsement is exactly that. she does bring real experience. however, her behavior as a margaret publican politician is not really any different. i think it is no surprise that the union leader did not want to endorse donald trump. and they can't endorse ron desantis, because republican voters have turned on desantis. he is done. >> reporter: he's done, i want the governor ron desantis is set to do interviews with meet the press this morning as well as cnn, he canceled both of those late yesterday evening, and apparently is coming to new hampshire this evening. former congressman david jolly, thank you very much. we appreciate your time. next, folks, president biden wants americans to stop paying big money to big banks in

overdraft fees. the director of the consumer financial protection bureau joins us to dive into the details. and later, we will talk with john kirby from the national security council. we're going to get the white house's view of the latest biden netanyahu exchange. you're watching the weekend. you're watching the weekend. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. and unforgettable scenery with viking. unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. right now get a free footlong at subway.

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administration wants to make a big change to big banks that could help millions living paycheck to paycheck. we talked about overhauling, overdraft fees. since the start of the century, large, financial institutions have charged custers an estimated 280 billion dollars for having to little in their bank accounts. underhe administration's new proposal, these institutions would have two options, overdraft fees for for profit loans and take the regulations that come with him, or take these fees is a courtesy service, not a revenue generator. that option could cut overdraft her just to as little as $3. it is a key part of the white

house's war on junk fees, joining us now is rohit chopra. he is what we could call the general of the war on junk fees? he's -- >> reporter: my mother called on the smartest person from new jersey. >> reporter: we'll take that as well. director, thank you for being with us. i want to graphic on the stream, from the 2020 to report on overdraft slash non-sufficient funds showing that folks with overdraft fees are more financially insecure, and in that report, it just talks about the ability of consumers to sustain themselves in the expect of an expected income loss. what the white house, and by extinction, your agency has the ability to really affect people's bottom line every day. could you break it down for us, already seeing folks move in anticipation of this reform last night? >> it's promising.

we've seen some of the largest banks in the country slashing their fees across the board. because a really tracking down these junk fees that are popping up and often they are worthless or fake services. we've seen over the years, banks like wells fargo even reorder transactions to trigger more overdraft fees. it's become a multi billion dollar bonanza. and you are putting us up to the worst of abuses. and you're, right simone, this is what hurts the people living paycheck to paycheck. one little error can sent them on a treadmill of debt, and i think our proposed rules are going to make a big difference. >> reporter: how much of a difference though? you're getting cooperation from the banks. they are interested in getting some with they want to prove from the administration. but are there slippery slopes here, back doors?

we know how regulations work in this town. so the administration's pushing out front, but the lobbyists are working the rafts in the back room to figure out another way, i figuring this out, because and we're gonna see this ovaries increase in my life, working with this bank. are you looking at this holistically? not just in terms of what's in front? trying to send a message to banks, you are consumer friendly, not consumer gouging? >> here's the issue. we've seen across the economy large firms being able to hide the true price on the back end, not advertising upfront. you see it all the time, airlines, tickets, hotels, over and over. because the consultants have told these companies, hey, you can juice your profits while still advertising at a low

price. what you're seeing across the board from the regulators's were saying, let's make that price clear, up front, with overdraft lending. what do you want to say? you gotta advertise it just like you what another loan that people can compare the rates. that is one of the best ways to take out these billions and billions of dollars in extra charges. i think we've seen, we won a competitive economy, not one that is exploitative. >> one of the issues you always hear about from voters in the here but the economies inflation. your sense of the context of inflation you're able to regulate? >> i think what is happening with inflation is that we've really seen the numbers slide over time, but i think we've seen the junk lucian, we've seen the sense that, why is this expensive? there is a port this week that talked about diapers, and how the input costs on diapers is offering those a supply chain

shortages. those inputs have gone down, but not all diaper costs have. i feel like we're trying to look at where people are exploiting the situation, and how we can unleash real competitive economy to make sure that prices really go down. >> reporter: in the last eight of the union that president biden did, junk fees was a substantial part of what he talked about in that speech. the lowering the overdraft fees is one part of that. you had on airlines, other pieces. this war on junk fees, if you will, to the administration is waning. all of that falls under your purview, that is what is spending the bulk of your time? >> reporter: she wants to know what tax dollars are going to. >> reporter: i try to figure it out. >> there's a huge part of, it but it's an all government effort. you're seeing work by the transportation department, the federal trade commission, even department housing urban development on rental junk fees. i think we're trying to look across the board, how can we lower costs, and frankly, make

the economy work for people even though we are seeing unemployment inflation all going in the right direction, you have to be relentless. because people are fueling this. >> reporter: one of the pinpoints is a normal student loans, recently had a new wave of student on forgiveness, the biden administration canceling five billion dollars in debt for 74,000 borrowers, many of whom work in public sector jobs. what does it mean for those borrowers, and then what does it mean more broadly for the economy? >> the restart of student loan payments i think i bit is a bit of a worry for a lot of families. you've got tens of millions of people, many of them took out these loans really to do what they were told to do, get a degree in order to get a job. but we have seen that the restart of those payments may inhibit their ability to save for the down payment, to get ahead in life. so we are all looking hard at these student loan servicing companies, many of them had botched peoples payments.

but also, there is new plans that people can pay a small percentage of their income overtime, so that they won't be overburdened. but there is a lot more work to do to help the tens of millions of people struggling with student loan debt. >> reporter: is that part of your sense of why young people seem pessimistic about the economy? pessimistic a>> reporter: thata period where series of payments were paused, and now that those payments come roaring back, they are having to rebalance their own personal budgets in ways that, for a few months there during the pandemic, didn't have to? >> reporter: and are people who will say, why we have to pay the government back anyway? the government wasn't getting it, did you really need it? >> we are tracking especially how those families are managing their finances. we see it leading them to take on more credit card debt. and the interest rates on mortgages i think are very dispiriting for many young families. so i'm hoping, over time, we can really get at the heart of this, and really make the economy work for everybody. >> reporter: you are not going

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there. imagine that there's an economy working for people, the administration talking about it, and there's also aspects of the economy that cut a little bit closer to home, and with respect to children. so wanted to play a little element for you, from nikki haley on the credit and talking about on the other side. but >> when you look at the east a bit, that's when you're bringing sustainable progress. when you throw to tax credit and siena given to these people, give it to these people, that's not sustaining anything. that's actually harming them. instead, let's do the hard work, and say, what can we do to get them into a better situation? >> reporter: so the problem i have with that, is not trying to tax credit for children as a bad thing. it actually helps families. talk a little bit about what it's being pushed out them, somehow this tax credit is made

versus a tax cut for wealthy people? >> you know, we think about people's personal finances, their debt and many people get on, again, this treadmill of debt when you can't make ends meet. and one little slip up sends them really down a bad place. you'll see that when people make have a little bit of a cushion, and then they can then get higher wages, it really creates a lot of stability, it puts them in a better place, and i think we see that it's really good for the whole economy. so i hope that we make sure that a lot of families, especially parents are able to really participate in the growing economy. >> reporter: this buildup on the table, i believe, that they approved, they voted 40 to 3 to approve a bipartisan tax package that included this child tax credit. but this would be the second time that americans would get a child tax redounded a biden administration. in the first year of the biden

administration, there is a monthly child tax credit for folks that qualify. they got a little extra and their bank account. i know that the vice president, this is that she has championed over the years. what else can the administration do to help relieve some of the, separate from congress, because this is a special house. what could the administration be doing? >> i think we are really focused on water peoples monthly bills? and what i see is that the interest rates on credit cards, for example, have shot up so high, in fact, the banks have raised higher than they've -- done the feds raised rates. so people paying 25, 22% interest rates on their credit cards, speeding it up. you are looking all sorts of ways that people can switch, get better rates, and put a lot more money in their monthly budgets. >> reporter: there's been a string of this really positive headlines for the administration related to the economy, retail sales were up strongly in december, as americans struggle continued

willingness to spend the s&p 500, rallying to 1% all-time high, surpassing previous record, consumer sentiment, the biggest jump in decades. those are headlines the administration is moving towards. i think there are folks who say, i don't have student on debt, i don't overdraft my bank account, i don't actually care about any of these things, because they impact me as an individual consumer. what do you say to those folks about the way in which it then impacts the broader economy? >> that's why we have to be relentless to make sure that every single person feels that the economy is really working for them. we are working on auto loans, mortgages, credit cards, all the monthly bills. and i put it on us to make sure that everyone is feeling that it's going in the right direction. i think people saving up to buy a home, for example -- >> reporter: most people feel that they are not gonna be able to afford a home. >> we've gotta change that. that's what we're working on, that's what so many are working on. so i take that as a challenge to do even more.

>> reporter: i think something slightly different though, which is, if you're looking at this through the lens of, 20 of these things impact me individually? you might not be thinking of the lens of, i want to sell my home, it in order to sell my home, i need to make sure that there is a buyer who has the capital to do that. that becomes additionally challenging if you have a generation that is having a student debt without car payments, with things they can afford, because they are not passing to say. i think there are folks who don't see this in a broader ecosystem. >> i think we wanna make sure the employment market really stays strong, because ultimately, that is what going to give people lots of options, they can quit a bad boss, they can have about option, and do something else if they want to. >> reporter: if i have to wake up, really up to wake up with us. up next, netanyahu isn't budging. the israeli prime minister doubling down on some incendiary language with the security situation in the middle east. john kirby joins us at the table, next. table, next.

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west of jordan, which includes palestinian territories. the statement seems to be at odds with the two-state solution, and it doubles down on the incendiary language used by right-wing politicians in his coalition. nbc news is andrea mitchell reported this week that frustration is growing between biden and netanyahu. secretary of state antony blinken had this to say about the israeli prime minister last week. >> there's a profound opportunity for regionalization, in the greater middle east that we have not had before. the challenge is realizing it. >> does israel have the prime minister for that opportunity? >> look, these are decisions for israelis to make. this is a profound decision for the country as a whole to make. what direction does it want to take? can it sees the opportunity that we believe is there? and they'll have to make those decisions. >> reporter: and there is concern the conflict could be spreading. yesterday, the u.s. military

said it conducted new airstrikes against militants in yemen. houthi rebels have been launching attacks from ships across the coast of yemen since the start of the israel-hamas conflict. joining us now is john kirby, the national security council breaker for the white house. thank you for coming in, and getting up early with us. so let's start with the call, with prime minister netanyahu, and president biden. you are, aware of our reporting, the wall street journal as reported this morning an explosive says a u.s. pushes hostage police planning ending in gaza war. is this new, first of all, is this new? >> we have been working, as you know, to get the remaining hostages out since the very beginning. and those conversations continue. they were having very serious conversations about this, very sober conversations with counterparts to try to get those hostages released. so what i can tell you is, at least in relation to the

article, that it is a continuation of a concerted effort by president biden and the team to try to get them home. our coordinator for the middle east, rhetoric, was in doha just week before last, again, to try to see if we could get something going. i wish i could tell you that there was a deal in it, and we were right on the cusp of one. but i don't think that we are right now. we can tell, you we are working at it every day. >> reporter: on the call between them, there are conflicting reports coming out. the president seemed to suggest, not even see, he said to reporters that he believes that there are many different types of two-state solutions, and he thinks that, he rejected notions that you could not get there with prime minister netanyahu. and then the things that prime minister netanyahu was saying, is posting on the former site known as twitter, it seems to suggest that he stands in direct opposition to what the united states. >> the president still very optimistic in a two-state solution.

he believes that is the best path forward for peace and security in the region, certainly going to be very impactful for the palestinian people, but he also believes the best interest of the israeli people as well. now, look. prime minister netanyahu is elected prime minister of the israeli government, and the israeli people, we respect that. and these two guys, they have known each other a long, long, time. they've a long history of working together. they are not going to agree on everything, and every aspect of every major policy. but the president is not going to waver in his determination to see if we can't get progress going on a two-state solution. before the 7th of october, we've been talking about potential normalization deal between israel and saudi arabia. which we believe then, and we still believe could be a major milestone to get towards a two-state solution. and they've said recently that they're interested in pursuing that, and keeping it going. that is a good sign. and the president is optimistic that we will be able to get there. >> reporter: you have, while you have the effort of the

two-state solution, the back and forth between netanyahu and biden, you also have what appears to be growing conflict in t region. i will put aap to give you east conflict that includedd israel assassinating amos leaders in beirut, in syria. israel as well a fighting, islamic state bombing in iran. you've got iran a militia attacks attacking u.s. troops in iraq, and of course, the houthi attacks coming out of yemen, which will get a little bit more in a moment. you have the two leaders who have focused on trying to resolve the israeli hamas issue. you've got seemingly this widening of other conflicts in the region. how is the administration accounting for that in these conversations with benjamin netanyahu, to sort of say, look. we've really got to work on this, because these other pieces are exploding as well. what is the israelis response to that, and what other steps

is the u.s. prepared to take to tamp an down of some of these other possible accelerants? >> almost, not everything, but then closed everything the president has done since the 7th of october has been designed to try to prevent this conflict from widening an escalating. he added two carrier strike groups to the region, additional aircraft squadrons. we work diplomatically in the u.n. to get condemnation of the houthi attacks in the red sea. we put together a coalition of 20 some odd nations, ships in the red sea, to protect shipping there. we are working very, very hard, to make sure that this conflict is not escalate. and i will tell you. again, the attacks yesterday in iraq, syria, notwithstanding, and of course, the continued houthi attacks on shipping in the red sea, notwithstanding. nobody is really, no other actor has really jumped in with both feet to help hamas in this war. hezbollah is not doing it, the iranians aren't doing it, they continue to support hamas, but

they are not seeing them come out like that, and jumping in and, again, the houthi, for all their claims, about gaza, wanting a cease fire, the ships that are hitting of nothing to do with israel. the vast majority, in fact, almost all the ships they've hit have no connection whatsoever, none. not going, they're nothing like that. so everything we're doing is trying to prevent escalation that they're widening, it's a conversation we are continuing to have with counterparts in the region. blinken was just there last week, one of the objects of that visit was to see what we can do to make sure that no other state or non state actor tries to take advantage. but >> reporter: if i may, the actions of the night states is taking now is the relation does not amount to deterrent, and what else the u.s. to do, and i will note that there has been some consternation from members of congress, progressive members, who have noted that they don't think that the president should independently go out and, they think that

under the work hours authorization, that he does not necessarily have this authority, but he needs to check in with congress, to be assigned brief allies, and talk to allies. he should have time to speak to members of congress, what about that as well? >> we're keeping members of congress and formed. but the strikes that we're taking inside of yemen, or have taken, and the self-defense operations in the red sea knocking things out of the sky before they can hit, all of that is well within his constitutional authorities commander-in-chief as well, and all very much comports with u.n. charter article 51, which is about self-defense. this is an international mission. i think a lot of people are forgetting that. they think of it as the united states against yemen, or the united states against the houthis, that we are joined with a coalition of other nations, including the british, who have not actually been helping in some of these strikes. it is an international mission. so we'll keep congress informed, of course, but as for your first question about deterrence, i think it's important to

remember that deterrence is not something that can be achieved in a snapshot in time, or given one, or two strikes. you know, it develops over a trend here over time. and the real purpose of the strikes we've taken in yemen, and the real purpose of the things we are knocking out of the sky as they commit ships in the red sea is to degrade and disrupt the houthis ability to conduct these attacks. they still have offensive capability? yes, they do. we want them to make the right decision here, which is to stop these attacks, and if they don't, as the president said, and has said many times, will continue to take the actions that we need to do to disrupt and degrade, and to hamper their ability to conduct those attacks. >> reporter: part of a balancing act here is how to do that without driving the houthis and iran closer to gather. houthi>> they already are close. i mean, they would be no houthi attacks in the red sea were it not for iran and the support that they continue to give them. the houthis are pulling the

trigger, but iran is providing the handguns and bullets. we know that. we are trying to disrupt that flow of munitions to yemen from iran, in fact, tragically, i know they are still looking for two sailors who fell overboard trying to get weapons who were heading towards the houthis. so this is a long relationship. we understand that. we are not blind to what iran is doing in terms of their support to the houthis, or hamas, or hezbollah in the region. we are continuing to take actions to hold iran accountable as well. >> reporter: on wednesday, u.s. aides to the president briefing members of congress, tying the beta funding for ukraine runs out, military funding for ukraine, you are looking at weeks, maybe a month until russia is able to win that war. what does that mean for ukraine? what does that mean for democracy? >> it would be disastrous for ukraine and the ukrainian people. after two years of bravely defending themselves, to find themselves overwhelmed by russian forces. but it would also, to answer

your question, it would be a huge blow to democracy. not just on the european continent, but around the world. putin would love nothing better than to subjugate ukraine, wipe it off the map, take away is an independent country, and then what? then he is right up against the eastern flank of nato. and he's already made threats to certain nato nations. and i think for people that are concerned about the cost of supporting ukraine, ask yourself this. how much more expensive could it be, not just in american treasure, but american blood. if putin decides to go after any toe ally? because then we are in. then it is tripping article five, and you've got a collective defense, and if the defend yourselves. ukraine has done a commendable, courageous job of clawing back a lot of the territory, more than 50% for what the russians originally achieved in the first four months of the war. they need our help to get the rest of their sovereignty back. and the mutations that we are providing now, they have dried up. we announced the last package on the 27th of december, and

there has not been won since. and i think ukrainian commanders can be forgiven right now, on an active battlefield, by the way. it's not they're still fighting even though the winners here. they can be forgiven for having to make a certain tough decisions about what they are going to expand, and where they're going to operate. because they don't know when the next security systems packages going to come. >> reporter: if congress doesn't act, one of south korea, what are japan, one of even taiwan? what will they think the united states? >> i think it sends a horrible message to tyrants and dictators around the world if we just relent and let putin have his way with ukraine. it wasn't a horrible signal to leaders all over the world who will see weakness with that. the other thing is, it says a horrible signal to our allies, and partners, who are counting on american leadership. one of the things that president biden has done very aileen last three years is shore up alliances and partnerships, and prove that american leadership on the world stage actually stands for something, and can achieve results. and if we falter here, if we fail to support ukraine, the message it sends to allies is

quite the contrary. and i don't think that is good for anybody's national security, including ours. this >> you laid out a broadway of issues and concerns facing not just united states, but our global partners in the midst of all of that, we had our secretary for austin, going for very serious health issues, health complications, unbeknownst to the administration, unbeknownst to those within the department of defense. he has now been asked to appear to testify before congress on his hospitalization, and all that means. the straight-up answer is, question for me, why has he not been fired yet? i just found that this is the worst form of reporting up the chain for let the president the united states know that a senior player in all of the foreign policy that we have been talking about is not at the table. >> the president still has full

faith, trust, and confidence and secretary austin. he's done an extraordinary job on leadership over the issue of ukraine, like israel, certain like others, sexual sought, harassment the ranks. he's been an extraordinary secretary of defense, and the president values his advice, his counsel, his leadership. he'll stay in that job. that said, the president has also acknowledge that this was not the right way to do things. and he deserve to know, as commander-in-chief, but the secretary of defense was being hospitalized for any number of whatever it is, if he's in the hospital with the president not to know that. and that is clear, and should not happen again but, in the pentagon is investigating this. we've made some reviews of protocols for delegation of authority, and how that is done across agencies, when we want to make sure that all the agency had the comments that are understanding, and expectations for when they delegate authority. and i, know again, the pentagon

is going to investigate this. but i have no doubt that the sort of situation won't happen again, coming from you. >> well, we'll see. john kirby, thank you so much, spending so much time with us, we really appreciate it. coming, up wisconsin senator tammy baldwin will join to discuss the 54th anniversary of roe, and the fight over reproductive rights in america. be sure to follow our show across social media, our handle everywhere is at the weekend msnbc and folks, we'll be right back. s, we'll be righ back back

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the weekend. i thought that was a very insightful conversation -- at the end the day i really saw the center of everything, whether you're sending out into ukraine dealing with the houthi, you've got this thing with netanyahu, this two state solution seems to be at the core of what the administration is trying to bore into. how did you read, it simone? >> reporter: i think, i should know for folks, the death toll in gaza has reached 25,000, many of those children. the gaza strip is not like you're talking about half united states, and it's two miles. you're talking about jersey, no shade to jersey, it's not that large. i think prime minister

netanyahu, we should take him at his word, he is not just parroting some members of his most conservative coalition when quaint not into him, this is what he believes. i think the white house and the administration very much so is looking to the future, and i think i'm struck by the point that netanyahu have a strong relationship, bringing netanyahu for 40 years. one could argue that maybe folks are losing that the prime minister netanyahu hit 20 years ago, who is not the person that sits in that seat today. it's the israeli people, it's a democracy, these are the people have the opportunity to have their energy to elect netanyahu, and they are going to have to make a decision, the route to step with him. >> reporter: that's something for them, something to be in the day, i really think that's where you're going to end up. so as much as netanyahu is resisting that, the israeli people are it, with the government that is behind it. >> reporter: in the war,

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