what goes in the presidential race. but republicans voted democrat in many cases in pennsylvania in the last election. >> reporter: i was one of them, i voted for josh sapporo over mastriano. and i quickly endorsed shapiro after the primary, because many republicans, a large numbers of republicans who were fairly prominent in part, publicly supported sir shapiro. because mastriano was so unacceptable. mccormick will have that problem, i suspect, with much of the republican establishment that mattresses. so it's a totally different dynamic this time around, a lot of the republican establishment has been very unhappy with donald trump in the last election, for endorsing mastriano and four interesting oz.

so trump has some things he needs to do with the establishment types. it remains to be seen how the grassroots will hold on to mccormick, but that's where we were going, and we will be soon enough. >> reporter: thank you so much. national political reporter for new york times, charlie dent, former publican congressman from pennsylvania and executive director and vice president of the congressional program at the aspen institute. coming, up nikki haley has a big endorsement this morning, donald trump has been collecting endorsements from top political figures of haley's own home state, and is parading around new hampshire with them. politics is hard, watching nikki haley get trust in two states at once by a guy who was once impeached twice, criminally indicted, and lost the last election is a sign that we should all turn our attention to the real two person race that is about to emerge, and they have nothing to do with the primaries. the one between joe biden and donald trump. another and we of velshi begins, now.

good morning to, it is sunday, january 21st, i'm ali velshi. we are two days away from the very first primary of the season, iowa caucus. you'll remember, and perhaps two days away from donald trump sowing up the republican nomination in record time. the former president, who has been twice impeached and currently faces 91 criminal charges appears headed for another easy victory in tuesday's victory. and with all the legal troubles, he still is ahead on this year, he's looking to shot down the primaries as soon as possible. new hampshire is nikki haley's hail mary moment, she's been gaining ground on trump in recent weeks, but it appears to be too little, too late. while polls out of new hampshire have been historically volatile, get the services support for people to need, and even if she does pull off some miracle upset, there is no path forward beyond her price new hampshire. the fact that it's on full display this weekend as donald trump gathers endorsements from the next primary state, which

is the own home state of carolina, which polls indicate she's gonna lose by a margin of double digits. trump was joining new hampshire yesterday by a who's who of south carolina republican political figures, including the states current governor, henry master. that's in addition to south carolina senator tim scott, endorsing trump on friday. scott was appointed to the senate by nikki haley herself. since i, one despite trump's literal, historic margin of victory there, haley is trying to pivot the conversation to make it seem like it's a two-person race. and in some ways, she is right. the two people in this race are joe biden and donald trump. virtually all signs indicate that the two of them are facing off again in the general election in this november, high ranking republican has begun calling for haley and said this to drop out of the race. she is not entirely disinterest in this. she will likely be trump's running mate. meanwhile, the biden campaign is already operating under the assumption that trp will be their opponent this year.

a spokesperson for the campaign told new york times last week, quote, the president looks forward to spending the next ten months reminding the american people out dangerous donald trump and his maga agenda are. the biden campaign is getting some help on that front from donald trump himself. the former president continues to display his authoritarian tendencies on the campaign trail as he did last night while praising hungary's authoritarian prime minister, victor werbach. >> it is a great man, a great -- great leader in europe, viktor orban. he's the prime minister of hungary. he's a very great leader, very strong manned, some people don't like him because he is too strong. it's nice to have a strongman running the country. >> reporter: it is important to understand that donald trump does not say these things by accident, he is running for rock office again to avoid going to jail. the question now is what most democrats and americans in general do to prevent an anti-democratic demagogue from seizing power. there are some early signs of trouble for biden. support for him as waned in

recent months, especially among black voters and young progressives. the good news for democrats is that the election is still ten months away, it's time to shore up support, and theyavsome winning issues on their side. this week, biden'caaign is going to sharpen its focus on abortion rights to coincide with the anniversary of roe v. wade. they're also continues to be good news about the economy, the s&p 500 getting a new record high last week, unemployment, which is increasing, consumer sentiment improving fairly dramatically. all things that the campaign can and should highlight in the months ahead. in contrast, we might see trump in court more often than in the campaign trail, with his criminal trial set to begin as soon as march. but still, many of the hypothetical head to head surveys between trump and biden showed that polling within the margin of error is essentially a dead heat. one year from today, a new presidential term will have just begun, and the man in the white house running that new administration will be the one who's able to coalesce support from the different factions of

their party, and get them to turn out and vote in november. joining me now is sarah longwell. she's an executive director of the republican accountability project, and publisher of the bulwark, also with this is stewart's evens, senior adviser for the lincoln project and author of the book, the conspiracy to end america. five ways that my old party is driving our democracy to autocracy. welcome to both of you, there important was nervous conversation with. don't trump is eager to shift these primaries, getting in the general election, joe biden, very eager to get past his primaries, schiff's attention, and make it clear that he's run against donald trump. but you have to wonder, how this works because the country has got to reckon with the possibility of sending the white house -- sending back to the white house a twice impeached insurrectionist ex president. how do you think this campaign is going to turn out?

>> obviously, i'm very hopeful that joe biden wins. i do think there is something to be said right now for this psychology of voters. >> which is that, because these are essentially two incumbents, i talk to voters all the time in focus groups. they do not realize yet that it is going to be a matchup between joe biden and donald trump. which just has not seeped into the national consciousness yet. and i think that once it does, you are going to see a contrast election start to take shape. where, right now, voters know what they don't like about joe biden. they've been frustrated with the economy and when you are the president you sort of take the brim for those things. donald trump there just forgotten what they had about donald trump. and because he'd been in the news with the court cases, a sort of like white noise to the voters. they can't tell them apart. so once donald trump is back in everybody's straight in their

faces talking about viktor orban is a good guy,, i think you're gonna see joe biden's number start to go up and donald trump start to go down. we've always seen this phenomenon with trump. when he's out of the public's view, he takes a break from tweeting, whatever, his numbers have always gone up. and right now he is really benefiting from not being the president. but once that contrast is clear i think you're going to see, look, the swing voters, swing voters in pennsylvania and michigan, wisconsin, they rejected trump before, and they reject candidates like him. as we were just talking about the previous segment, doug mastriano, kristen caramel, those types of people. there is a subset of swing voters that simply don't like trump and candidates like him. and that he alienates people. so i think that as we headed to the next ten months, we're going to see that start to take shape. >> reporter: let me put the same question to you, stewart. robert gibbs, obama's former press secretary, saying the other day, that while some

democrats, are people who don't like trump, are sort of sad in there is going to be a few months of republicans punching each other out during a primary, this is probably better for those who don't like trump. probably better for joe biden to do what sarah said, to put this into sharp contrast and focus, that this is by dairy. that there may be some things you don't like about joe biden, and that's fair, but that's going to be be at the moment between staying for democracy, and has done, so and donald trump, who was constantly bragging about something else. >> yeah, some primaries held their own party, because primaries are nasty, they're long, they take up a lot of money. this primary is not shaping up like that at all. i mean, they're not really attacking trump. if you think about it, you've got a guy who's got 91 indictments of counts, and not even talking about it. a guy who, a court's own town, found him liable of sexual assault at the judges history. so when you don't bring that up, you're not really serious about

winning a race, and as soon as it gets to a one up match for both parties, i agree completely with what sarah said. i think the difference is going to be very stark. i think this is ultimately going to change on two dynamics. joe biden has to represent the future, which i think he can't. his policies are much more future oriented, and he has policies, the republican party really doesn't. and biden has to be the safe choice in this race. there has to be a constant reminder of how dangerous, and unstable donald trump's. and usually, in these matchups, normal and safe and the future will win. and i think that the biden campaign, i have a lot of respect for them, i think they ran a brilliant campaign in 20. there was an interesting poll in new hampshire that just came out, that showed biden's approval at 38, and the fact that he was being trump 50 to 45. and i think you're going to see

a lot of that. a disconnect there. and i think the old approval numbers, when you have the majority of the other party looking for legal president, it's going to start to become close to meeting. >> reporter: sarah, you wrote a piece for the bulwark title last week, saying, it's time for former trump officials to come out against him, in which u point out that we've heard from some of them, many of them, that we need more of them to come out. here's a quote from the article. for these former trump officials, telling the truth about trump kept the position they take. it has to be a cause, and they pursue with as much focus -- former trump officials, people of conscience have acquiesced to authority, and until we have every voter has heard their voices. i say this to you because stewart is one of these people, and he's a conservative this is what actually has to happen.

this may be the way to get these people in the middle, who think donald trump has fully ripped everything yet, he's given extraction, he's a bit quirky, he's a bit weird, but i'm not happy with the economy, or i'm not happy with this, or that, or the other thing. >> yeah, look. right now, we're seeing a bunch of people acquiescing to trump. people like chris got, rechristen, like who says he'd support nikki haley but would support trump if he was the nominee. that will build a permission structure for sort of regular swing voters or right-leaning independents to say i don't know. all these other republican seem to be saying it's okay for donald trump. there needs to be a counterbalance to that. in the people who served with donald trump, many of them, they wrote books after they left the administration, or they give off the record quotes to people who are writing books or bringing profiles in the atlantic. i'm glad they did that.

but going forward, now that trump is about to be the nominee again, they're gonna have to come together and tell the country what they saw, and how they thought it was so dangerous. why this isn't a normal nomination, and why donald trump is not a normal republican candidate. these are people who have defended democracy abroad, and on the battlefield. they can speak up now, and say how dangerous donald trump's, and explain to these swing voters why joe biden being old is not the same thing as donald trump being a danger and a threat to democracy. that's what has to happen, and that's what i'm calling for. >> reporter: that's key point. stuart, in the last hour, i spoke with your colleague, rick wilson, and frank lance about the effect of a third party candidate in this year's race. frank seemed to be implying that joe manchin, or third party candidate would be a good idea. you can imagine that it was thought to be a terrible idea. but we still have no labels in the game. we have robert f. kennedy

junior launching an independent bid. tell me about this concept? i think rick said something interesting, but st. augustine said, make me perfect, which is not yet. we all think more people in the race in general is a good thing, but maybe not this year. >> yeah. i think this is. utterly insane, verging on evil. if no candidate gets 270 electoral votes and goes to the house of representatives to pick the president, and the senate to pick the vice president, by the way. so let's just get the straight. we really want the people who can't pick a speaker to pick the next president? you want mike johnson up there, trying to pick a president of the united states? and it is an absolutely lunatic idea that a candidate can get 270 votes. one thing all of us have in common, we've never won an electoral college vote. and that is the most likely scenario that's going to happen with a third party candidate. so this is self indulgent at

best, a lot of the trump people are pushing this, because they know that if there is an off ramp that might be mildly more receptive then biden to some republicans may take. all we're talking about is two to 3% here, which can turn the difference. so i think people really care about america, they really need to shut it down now. >> reporter: thanks to both of you, we appreciate having you here. founder and executive director of the republican accountability project in the publisher of the bulwark. stuart stevens is a senior adviser with the lincoln project, and author of the book, the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is driving our democracy to ruin. nikki haley in every other human gets to decide what name to go by. i'm talking congressman roger christianity about the implicit racism of down trump's latest attacks on haley's parents and her name. and the supreme court is called upon to do nothing short of saving democracy. well, justices need to stop claiming they aren't political

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here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> reporter: today, the war in

gaza entered its 107th day. there is no end in sight to the bloodshed. just this morning, the cause a health ministry reported that at least 25,000 people have died in the enclave since the start of the war. one of those individuals killed is the mother of mohammed elias kyi, the 13-year-old boy said he lost his mother in an israeli airstrike. as the eldest of eight children, he is now tasked with taking care of his seven siblings. the youngest of them, a mere six months old. here is that family's story, in their own words. [speaking in a global language]

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this election is a choice between results or just rhetoric. californians deserve a senator who is going to deliver for them every day and not just talk a good game. adam schiff. he held a dangerous president accountable. he also helped lower drug costs, bring good jobs back home, and build affordable housing. now he's running for the senate. our economy, our democracy, our planet. this is why we fight. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i'm a photographer. and when i'm driving, i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, it had to be fixed right. i scheduled with safelite autoglass. their experts replaced my windshield

and recalibrated my car's advanced safety system. ♪ acoustic rock music ♪ >> woman: safelite is the one i trust. they focus on safety so i can focus on this view. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >> reporter: i want to bring in an old friend the, show congressman roger christian review of illinois, represents the states eighth district, his house committee on oversight and the committee carson. we normally have you on her talk politics, i guess this is politics in a way, but mostly racism, actually. donald trump is doing his donald trump thing that he does with people of color with nikki haley. he mispronounce her name very

deliberately, not mispronounce it, he just says a different name, he invents a different name for her. she implies -- he implies that she's not qualified because her parents are not american citizens when she was born, which is not actually requirement to run for president. you share a similar background. you were born elsewhere, and have come to america, and it is getting under your skin. >> it is. i think this set of remarks is racist, it's wrong, it's reprehensible. this type of rhetoric, by the way, leads take rhymes. and violence. and i wish and hope that my republican colleagues would also call this out for what it is. i was also very disappointed in nikki haley's response to this, and felt squishy, and she missed an opportunity to speak out on perhaps of millions of americans who advises rhetoric to be very disturbing, as the quote unquote, candidate of the

future. and one that is more inclusive, and where this type of rhetoric is just completely unacceptable. >> reporter: and one wonders, because she's an experienced politician, and when she was governor of south carolina, had to deal with a specific, very public racist outcry in the shooting of those people in the mother emmanuel baptist church, which result in the removal of the confederate flag from the state house. she knows this stuff, and yet she continues to sort of say, i didn't experience others who experienced racism, so it's not a big deal. >> i think she thinks she looks weak. this is exactly the playbook against marco rubio, against ted cruz, and they then did the same thing that nikki haley did, which is that they didn't call out what was happening for what it was. and as a consequence, they not only went on to lose their

nominations, but they appear to be count down into trump. and i think the more the people are silent in the face of this rhetoric, and these attacks, the more they encourage it, the weaker they look, and the worse of their party and i would argue all of america is when people are not calling it out. >> reporter: let's remind our, which is donald trump's most likely going to be the nominee for the republican party, about what he said about those other candidates. this was on january 14th, 2016. not the first time he only said it, let's bring this to our viewers. >> but then of the day, the legal issue is quite straightforward. but i would know that the birther theories that dom has been relying on, some of the most extreme ones insist, that you not only be born on u.s. soil, but b two parents born on u.s. soil, not under that theory, not only would i be disqualified, marco rubio would be disqualified, bobby jenner would be disqualified, and interestingly enough, donald j

trump would be disqualified. [applause] because donald's mother was born in scotland. she was a naturalized. now, donald -- on the issue of citizenship, donald, on the issue of citizenship, i am not going to use your mother's birth against you. >> because it wouldn't work. >> reporter: but in fact, that's exactly what donald trump is using against nikki haley, what he said about tom cruise. first of, all donald trump is wrong. let's be clear on this, your parents, where their one is not relevant. you and i would be disqualified from the presidency of united states because there is your comment that you're born the united states. nikki haley was. so there is the gaslighting, which kind of works for donald trump, and then there is the inherent racism. because everything he does this

with is of a particular group in america. >> that's right, a kind of works, but it kind of doesn't, because on the one hand, it works within the narrow strata of republican voters who turnout for maybe a primary, or caucus, base that he is appealing to, but on the other hand, it doesn't appeal with general election voters, ali, and it doesn't appeal with, for instance, voters in my own district. i represent one of the suburban districts that will be swinging in a general election, and other states, and 30% of my residents reformed. the vast majority of residents by district, you know, either have personal or business ties to other countries, and they find donald trump's rhetoric very disturbing. and i think that is, why for instance, he lost the 2020 election, his party underperformed in 2022. they lost special elections of 2023. they are not a party of the

future. they are not painting inclusive visit of this where every american succeeds. >> reporter: congressman, thank you, good to see you. democratic congressman of illinois. still ahead, all right wing extremists who incited insurrection, or a right when who is running for president, and a conservative super majority supreme court that he helped build will decide whether he is eligible. some real talk about the precarious state of democracy and the role the supreme court plays an, next. my dr and i finally had that conversation. oh, no, not about that. about what comes next in life. for her. i may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home, where my family visits often and where my memories are. i can do it with help from a prep cook, wardrobe assistant and stylist,

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of americans continue to face extreme cold this weekend as winter weather grips much of the nation. at least 61 people have died because of freezing, icy conditions spinning coast to coast. oregon remains in a state of emergency after deadly snow and ice storms left at least nine people dead and 50,000 without power. another wave of ice and snow is expected at the columbia river gorge outside of portland today. the cold also pushed down into the lower u.s., into areas that are not accustomed to freezing temperatures like mississippi, louisiana, and central florida. all of which saw snowy, freezing temperatures. tennessee saw temperatures below zero, as nearly a foot of snowfall contributed to at least 19 weather really did deaths. freezing temperatures in

memphis caused so many pipes to burst that water pressure felt to zero. the city is now on a boil water notice that officials believe will last into next week. city officials say they are working to get bottled water to residents as quickly as possible while crews work through the night to repair pipes. meteorologist and climate scientists have noted this week that extreme cold events like what we have seen this january are in fact becoming far less common. meteorologists are also urging those who are inclined to use this current cold snap as counter evidence against global climate change to remember the difference between individual weather events, which can still produce cold, wintry conditions, and climactic conditions, which show steady, planetary warming. the deep freeze should begin to thaw soon, the national weather service says. much of the country's going to see a warm-up coming later today. for decades, conservative americans have rejected the idea of a living, breathing, constitution. what was once a point of view, or fodder for conversation, has now become dangerous and

weaponized. weaponized. ef, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> reporter: today, our

democracy faces an existential crisis. an insurrectionist is running for the highest office in the land. one who routinely threatens his opponents, and free press, with vengeance. adding to the challenge, the supreme court with the right-wing majority will decide whether this insurrectionist can pursue the nation's highest office, yet, many americans deliberately, or inadvertently continue to downplay that danger, embracing a deeply naive belief that autocracy could never happen here. that the threat is overblown, and it could never be collapsed, or subverted. there is no need to look abroad in germany, in the 1930s, or to hungary today to understand the consequences of normalizing extremists. we need only to look to our own history. american democracy has a come to tyranny in the past, you see,

the north won the civil war, but nearly a century after, democracy itself was lost in america south. white supremacist, defeated in war, furiously resisted equality for black americans, and overtime, jim crow became the law of the land. the supreme court actively participated in this assault on liberty that was one in a civil war in which 700,000 americans died by legalizing racial segregation throughout the south. unspeakable tragedies were inflicted on non whites, leaving behind dark legacies that echo loudly in the present. recognizing us uncomfortable truth is crucial to understand the gravity of the current threat because the stakes today are on a national scale. those circumstances near the post civil war reconstruction era, section three of the 14th amendment of the constitution, the basis for the lawsuits challenging the relatability to go again, is the aftermath of

the civil war, as the democratic safeguard. it specifically excluded from office those who broke their office to support the constitution, and 1868. that meant those who sided with the confederacy in the civil war. those who are just overlook trump's actions on january six for the sake of unity echoed the exact sentiments of that area. in 1972, a general amnesty allowed former confederates to run for office again, so what happens when an enemy of democracy becomes the chief executive of the united states? well, after the 14th and 15th amendments granted rights to the formerly enslaved, multi racial democracies emerged, looking for authorities looking -- opponents of racial equality refused to accept those election results. confederate general wade hampton, backed by white supremacist groups, contested election with an south carolina's lumina toil race for

fraud and violence and eventually seized power. the confederate thunder handed that initiative that a government restructuring campaign to entrench their power, similar to what trump and his allies have vowed to do once back in office. these confederate succeeded in solidifying their grip on power across the south by disenfranchising black voters. the supreme court, during this period, relied on originalist ick interpretations of the constitution to justify decisions that protected this powerful minority, much like what today's conservative court is doing. but so-called originalism provides convenient off-ramp for convenient justices who attribute their rulings to a treasury picked past. in reality, constitutional expert kermit roosevelt iii rights, justices are not simply enforcing the views of the long dead framers, they're deciding what used to enforce. we have a tradition of pursuing justice at the expense of unity, and a tradition of doing the

opposite. america contradicts itself, to paraphrase whitman, and contains multitudes at the argument that this is not who we are, as most often the statement of aspiration for the future, rather than a statement of fact about the past. in the end, we are responsible for who we become, and what becomes of our country. we should not pretend that history relieves us of that burden, and that honor. the loss of democracy in the south was regional, but today, the entire nation is at stake. and once again, the court is being called on to safeguard democracy, and irrespective of what it decides, this will be a political decision with a long lasting, political consequences. but don't forget this season 's updated covid-19 shot too. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need...

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one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. i think he's having a midlife crisis one purchased equals one donated. i'm not. you got us t-mobile home internet lite. after a week of streaming they knocked us down... ...to dial up speeds. like from the 90s. great times. all i can do say is that my life is pre-- i like watching the puddles gather rain. -hey, your mom and i procreated to that song. oh, ew! i think you've said enough. why don't we just switch to xfinity like everyone else? then you would know what year it was. i know what year it is. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy

by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. i want to welcome kermit roosevelt the third to the show. he's a professor of constitutional law at the university of pennsylvania law school, and the author of the book, the nation that never was. reconstructing america story. professor roosevelt, thank you for being with us, we've been looking forward to having on the show for a long time. there is a considerable debate among legal scholars about section three of the 14th amendment of the constitution, and it's disqualification, or potential disqualification of donald trump. originalist readings of the show present arguments on both sides, but you challenge the legitimacy of the debate itself, stressing that judges are

actively making choices. talk to me about what happens when justices on the supreme court assert that they are merely trying to follow the framers intent. >> i think the main thing that originalist's are doing now is working as a rhetorical strategy that lets the justices deny responsibility for choices that they are making. so the american people have strong views about the right of children to attend school safely, versus the right to bear arms. and that's a trade-off that people might think, you should do some studies, and it figure out how you should look. but originalism, the justices say, are taken away, because they're made in the past. and as judges, they are just following the law, they are enforcing the choices made by people, put in the constitution. and the problem is, history is complex, constitutional provision is made hundreds of years ago, without specific house and circumstances of today. they actually don't leave those

questions. so part of this to look down, and they pretend it's only answer. >> reporter: this is further complicated by the argument that some of made about the 14th amendment, some argue that it's a stretch to have january six rioters, to trigger the -- some argue the january six pales in comparison of the devastation at least by the civil war, and your thoughts on that? >> i think that really misunderstand what happens, you don't have hundreds of thousands of americans killed, certainly. i don't like -- that was what would happen. we're going to force the government to kill you if you stand in our way. we will hang mike pence, and what they were trying to do, what they wanted the government to do is illegally keep donald trump in power.

you're trying to take over the presidency, they're trying to take over the position of commander-in-chief in the u.s. army. if that doesn't scare you, then nothing should. >> reporter: some people make the argument that barring the leader from it is instead calling for defeating donald trump at the box office. this is what, it sounds like a box office. the ballot box, for the sake of unity, instability. we were noted that putting unity head of darkness is the scene that echoes through america. tell us what that means? >> reporter: putting unity out of justice, and unity of white americans, is what america does, frequently. and we say, we put it this, way we have to get this colonies together to fight the british. we have to get everyone to sign on to the constitution. in order to do that, we make compromises. we sacrifice other values most. consistently, what we sacrifices racial equality.

so that's when you get the constant constitutions that preserve and protect slavery, and that's why at the end of reconstruction, you get white america turning its back on this ideal of racial equality, because what brings whites together is racial hierarchy. it's white supremacy. >> reporter: you've made this point that the civil war did not end the racial hierarchy in this country, in fact, it persisted for another hundred years. you are an expert on the reconstruction era, in the subsequent redemption movement, which is a campaign by white supremacists to restore their power, and to reverse civil and voting rights gains. and you have described that post january six insurrection as being part of a similar kind of redemption. you're sort of making the argument there was a civil war, there was reconstruction redemption, and sort of their again, tell me about that. >> yes, we see this pattern in american history, that there are movements for equality.

americans believe inequality. that was one of the strands of our history. and a quality movements made progress. it has conflict, and great cause. and that is that. therefore, the u.s. army does not interfere, voting rights are taken away. but it is dismantled, a lot of the gains are undone. and then, you have to wait, in that case, you way almost 100 years. but the equality movement once again. the civil rights movement, of the mid 20th century, the war inquiry, all of that. there is a backlash, again. there is a federalism. it is a reagan revolution, this is what a real -- originalism becomes popular as this interpretation. and what we're seeing now is the same thing, sort of an microcosms. so we have the black lives matter protests, the george floyd protests, we had, everyone was talking about, a racial reckoning. peoples attitudes are changing.

and we made progress in terms of poverty. what we are seeing now is a backlash. the attack on dei as part of that. and that is part of that. january 6th, and the argument, and only legitimate, we only respect those results if we win, you know, that's one of the trump view. that is exactly what the redemption us were saying. >> >> reporter: commit rose about the third, this is a crucial important argument you've made, you've written it, and it is before the situation right now, and i truly appreciate, maybe going with this. somebody realizes what their actual responsibility is in the coming days, and weeks. we were honored to have you on the show, thank you so much, you are a univ at pennsylvania, the nation that never was, the book which is uniquely relevant to the moment in which we exist right now. that does it for me, we

appreciate you joining us. this show airs every saturday and sunday morning from 10 am to noon eastern. also, don't forget, velshi is available as a podcast. you can follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts, in which i wear that vest, you know, i'm just making that up. you know what i wear here on the podcast. also, check out your favorite velshi segments on youtube. you can go to msnbc.com slash ali, but our coverage continues this afternoon, stay right where you are, inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> okay, here we