this show airs every saturday and sunday morning from 10 am to noon eastern. also, don't forget, velshi is available as a podcast. you can follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts, in which i wear that vest, you know, i'm just making that up. you know what i wear here on the podcast. also, check out your favorite velshi segments on youtube. you can go to msnbc.com slash ali, but our coverage continues this afternoon, stay right where you are, inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> okay, here we go.

we are live from manchester, new hampshire, out of the most consequential night in this political season to date. we have lots of students here with us in the studio, which is exciting. we've got lots of guests coming by over the course of the next hour, and we have so much to talk about. because we are at a bit of a crossroads here in new hampshire. their timing to pass that these next two days could open up. if donald trump wins convincingly on tuesday, then this status all but over. and you don't exactly have to stretch or imagination to picture that happening. i, mean he is currently leading nikki haley by 19 points in the latest new hampshire tracking poll. and remember, this is the state that is supposed to be the friendliest terrain for a trump alternative. live free or die, independent minded people. the friendliest terrain also for nikki haley. so again, if trump does win big on tuesday, the republican primary race would more or less come to a close. and trump knows that. which is why he's been working

overtime to lock in endorsements and make a rematch with president joe biden start to look inevitable. at a rally here just last night, trump won on the stage with south carolina state leaders. a clear show of force of his support in haley's home state. a state that's coming up in just a couple of weeks. but politics can also bring surprises. and the people of new hampshire have a history of keeping things interesting, keeping us all on our toes. to -- so tuesday could also give us something different. it's possible. nikki haley could win here, or she could even come closer than expected. and however briefly, and it may be brief, very brief, she could make trump's nomination seem a tiny bit less unavoidable. but her window of opportunity in this race is closing rapidly. and the days following the iowa caucus, to me at least, it felt a little bit like she was limping toward the finish line. i have done a few of these, three presidential campaigns to be exact, and this moment, a couple days before a

make-or-break primary, is the time to sprint, not to limp. this is going for broke time. which is why i was kind of striking earlier this week when she refused to go after trump over a jury's finding that he's liable for sexual abuse. >> you're the only woman in this race. how do you feel about your party's front-runner being held liable for sexual abuse? >> i mean, first of all, i haven't paid attention to his cases. and i'm not a lawyer. all i know is that he's innocent until proven guilty, and when he is proven guilty and he's sitting in a courtroom, that's exactly what i'm talking about. you've got investigations on trump and biden. >> she says she's not a lawyer, will guess what? neither of my. but i am positive that you do not have to be a lawyer to say being found liable for sexual abuse is bad. why is it so hard for her to say that? well, it's kind of because haley is trying to walk a tightrope of competing against trump or not alienating his base. something she's done better

than the other people in the primary. it's a trite rope she's been watching all campaign. then on friday night, donald trump gave her an opening that she simply could not ignore. >> in every report, the crowd on january 6th, nikki haley, nikki haley, nikki haley -- did you know they destroyed all of the information, all the evidence, everything? deleted and destroyed all of it. all of it. because of lots of things, like nikki haley is in charge of security. we offered her 10,000 people, soldiers. whatever they were. they turned it down. they don't want to talk about that. >> okay, so he was clearly pretty confused there. he was spewing some sort of odd baseless free story. think about nancy pelosi on january 6th. but he kept saying nikki haley. he said it a lot, over and over again. and that opened the door for haley to take her most direct shot at trump to date, calling his mental fitness into

question. >> last night, trump is at a rally, and he is going on and on mentioning me multiple times as to why i didn't take security during the capitol riots. why i didn't handle january 6th better. i wasn't even in d.c. on january 6th. i wasn't in office then. they're saying he got confused. that he was talking about something else. he was talking about nancy pelosi. he mentioned me multiple times in that scenario. the concern i have is, i'm not saying anything a derogatory, but when you're dealing with the pressures of a presidency, we can't have someone else that we question whether they are mentally fit to do this. we can't. [applause] >> well, i guess welcome to the fight, nikki haley. a couple days before the republican primary in new hampshire. but just to put a fine point on

this, donald trump's closest republican challenger is now directly calling his mental fitness into question. and no matter what happens here on tuesday, that's pretty significant. it was no doubt an escalation from the candidate who has spent most of her campaign landing more glancing blows. just a few -- is it enough, or is it far too little for too late? joining us off here in manchester, staff writer for the atlantic, former policy director for mitt romney and msnbc candidate -- nbc news correspondent -- and following the haley campaign, nbc news correspondent ali vitali. so ali, let's start with you. because you've been following the haley campaign. i want to know from you, we saw her kind of escalate things over the course of the day yesterday. are there any new attacks you've seen from her, and how has the crowd been responding? >> jen, i think you're right to point out that trump's unforced error there on the stump allowed haley to start saying

the quiet part a lot louder. she had been alluding to this idea of age and generation over the course of her candidacy, specifically making a turn when we were in iowa on the night of the caucuses, where she began making this refrain about trump and biden, biden and trump. looping in lumping those names together, hoping that that sticks in the mind of voters. that fit though, with the previous way that she'd been trying to chart the path that you so aptly described, of the nimble dance that she's doing between it trying to be the maga alternative, without overly upsetting the maga base. and that's something that we saw her unable to do in iowa. we are now watching her try to do something like that here in new hampshire. but i think what's so striking is that you and i are both in our third of the, i think most of the folks on the panel are on their multiple presidential election. we know how this typically goes. what's striking to me is that this is not a -- that's trying to argue we're going to get, first we're going to win here. that was the argument maybe a month or a month and a half ago, but the consistent trend lines

that we've seen in polls show that trump is ahead, and the haley campaign is seeing the same thing, and it's why the candidate is making the case repeatedly, when i asked her about expectations, she's not saying i'm going to win here. she saying, i'm gonna do better here than i did in iowa, and after new hampshire, i'll do better yet. but better isn't first. i don't know how you get the nomination without winning a state. >> better is not first. that's a bumper sticker. ali vitali, i know you will know more reporting to do. you're covering lots more campaigns. i'm gonna turn to my panel, thank you so much for joining us. you've been following ron desantis, we're going to get to that for sure. you've also been following nikki haley. we were both at the same event last night, and one of the things that struck me was that when she did the line about chaos following trump, which is a little bit of a passing blow, that was the biggest applause by the crowd. what have you been seeing in the events you've been following? what are people looking for? >> from both haley and desantis, i am always surprised. people are fairly receptive, especially here in new

hampshire, but even in other states, to those kind of attacks on the former president. and look, both of these candidates have really struggled to find their footing on trump from the beginning. and in all of my reporting on the desantis campaign, on that in the campaign, there's so many sources that have said to me, that is the central problem. because why do people of trump so much? because he's a fighter. people like that bully mentality. people told me early in the tim scott campaign, one of the reasons he's struggling is because people feel like he's too nice. they like him, but they don't feel like he has that fighting spirit. and so there was a lot of reflection, is being done about what happened early on with desantis and with haley. a lot of folks telling me, if they just come out swinging, there would've been respect. not just from trump voters, but potentially even from trump himself, who doesn't sometimes respect someone that can't really stand up for themselves. >> it's like a lady fighter. >> coming around too little too late.

there's going to find the messaging. but is it coming too late? >> so i talked to a bunch of voters outside of this event last night, let's play a little bit of that. and mark, i want to talk to you about what this coalition might look like. >> have you decided who you are going to support on tuesday? >> i have not. -- independents new hampshire house, so we've been here a long time, been to many primaries, i'd like to gather my information and see run going. >> have you decided who you are going to support on tuesday? >> yes, i think i have. i think i'm nikki supporter. >> you're not supporting joe biden? >> i am, i voted for him in the last election. i haven't been pleased with some of his policies. >> what have you been most displeased? with >> just the spending. and his treatment of the border. i think we've got real problems that failing to recognize, and do something with. but he's a much better choice than trump.

>> if it were trump and biden, which is very well could be, a third party -- >> it's just not appealing. with nikki haley, you'd hope to run? >> not necessarily. there are other people out there. >> are you saying you wish -- >> no, i guess i'm not that enthusiastic. >> so what struck me here was it was not a monolithic group, i think it's fair to say. i mean, there were definitely some people who love nikki haley, there there were some people who didn't necessarily love her, we're undecided, but liked her better than trump. there were some biden people there, what does this coalition look like, and is there enough of the coalition to get her across the finish line? >> i would describe the coalition as loose. maybe ragtag, and certainly not enthusiastic. and it seemed very resigned. if you look at this. but also in polling data that we saw out of iowa, so far out of here. there's the boston globe tracking poll with people looking at it very closely

these last few days, and it shows that most people have actually made up their minds. which shows you that there is a kind of resignation, but also it shows you that nikki haley has maybe if i can do this, it shows a lack of enthusiasm in some ways, which i think has been characteristic of her support. >> it's kind of an issue in iowa too. to go back to this question of what could you have done earlier, to me, having done messaging campaigns for a long time, i think a lot of these tenants are in a tricky spot. because chris christie what hard-core after trump, and then more people didn't like him who liked him. would it have made a difference if nikki haley -- sometimes they tell you that it's not really what they want. >> i don't know really if there is a message that would've been effective at garnering more republican support. and most of these primaries going forward or going to be republican voters. so new hampshire is a little bit different in that sense. it's always a question of lanes. when you're thinking about primaries. what's the lane you're going to travel? and chris christie was traveling in the anti trump

lane, and then you obviously have trump. and then you have the everybody else lame, which is really the same lane that when scott was in the race, desantis, nikki haley, they've kind of been in the same lane. and the challenge that lane is that there isn't necessarily a single message. a message is that i'm the alternative, but wait and see how things play out. and then if i'm the alternative, great, vote for me. i think that's where we are now. the challenge for nikki elias rhonda scent is still in the race. >> let's talk about ron desantis. so you did some interesting reporting about what's going on in his campaign, and it involves a jigsaw puzzle. a let you explain. >> it does involve a puzzle. there are a number of stories over the course of reporting in this campaign that sort of came to represent different aspects of why he never quite took off in the way that a lot of people expected him to. remember at the outset, he was the guy. he was going to be the next bearer of the party. and that never quite manifested. but in the last days leading up to the iowa caucus, multiple staffers from the never back down iowa field operation

headquarters, where they were running all of their -- reached out to me in my producer, abby brooks. and said that their ceo chairman was spending a significant amount of time during these critical days working on a jigsaw puzzle. >> as one does. >> and they were so concerned by this and sort of frustrated by that one of them took a picture and sent it to us, and the sentiment was, look. there are paid staffers, volunteers, all these folks dedicating themselves to helping desantis win, and the guy that's supposed to be in charge of getting this win for him in iowa is spending time doing something other than focusing on the caucuses. now scott wagner, the man in question here says the party was already there, everybody in the office contributed, it was a team-building thing. but i think it's just emblematic of our reporting on this campaign, people constantly pointing to this sort of mismanagement and wasted efforts as really plaguing the campaign from the beginning. it is sort of a vacuum of

leadership, where this is a guy who, from the outside, was relying on this massive victory in florida, and ended up empowering people that were loyal to him, rather than people who actually had experience on presidential campaigns. and then you had a bad launch, you had the campaign running out of money very quickly, and a lack of message. all of our sources pointed to. >> all challenges. so mark, i want to ask you. youwrote this piece, we're lookin at at the candidates could've done or should've doferently. that was titled, what is nikki evenalking about? and this struck me, because the truth is, when you're on t rise as a candidate, it's much easier place to be than when you're in the spotlight. and then people like you and you and others start paying attention to, what exactly they're talking about. so tell us a little bit more about that piece. >> i would say that nikki haley, i will give her the credit. she's an extremely gifted political athlete. >> great debates.

>> she rose above the rest of a pretty motley field in the debates. i think we all saw that, i think that's why a lot of people gave her a pretty close look. that's also evident in the room she goes to. she is very good at events, she is a great retail politician in the field right now. and again, ron desantis isn't the best competition here. but i wanted to go out and sort of watch or a close and get a sense of really where she was going with all of this. and i do think that one sense you get from washing her more than once is once she spreads the surface, it's really quite unclear not only what her message is, but why she's even doing this. i think until the -- last few days, it seemed very, very, glancing blows is what you get -- of laying any kind of blame on donald trump. i think in the last few days, maybe she's found her voice a little bit around trump biden alternative messages. i think trump's given her a lot of material. but again, there's the sense that she never gave a sense of why she was in this to begin with, and whether she really wanted to win or whether she was playing for second, which sounds like trump sort of

foreclosed on a couple days ago and she did too, and maybe that signals maybe a little bit of pivot in the last few days won't do anything. >> lots to watch. i do want to cut you off, we're gonna make you come back because we'll be here for three days. thank you so much. lots of reporting, we will talk to you all again over the next few days. really appreciate all of you. coming up, donald trump's closing message in new hampshire, i -- howe's plan to spend his day tomorrow. it's not here. he's gonna be testifying in his defamation trial in new york. apparently. andrew weissmann and -- and they're coming up next. we are coming live from new hampshire in a very quick break. ire in a very quic break. ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion♪ ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms

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when he argued that a president, this is a quote, a president must have full immunity without which it would be impossible for him or her to properly function. then he goes on to say that even events that cross the line, his words, must fall under total immunity. even events that cross the line. i mean, trump or tends to be speaking theoretically here, but it's pretty clear he is referring to himself. after all, he's the only president, current or former, to ever be criminally indicted. so when he says the president should be excused for crossing the line, his all but conceding but he did something illegal. of course, trump's claim of presidential immunity will stew -- and could even ahead to the supreme court. and while neither is expected to rule that the president is above the law, that claim is now part of trump's closing campaign message here in new hampshire. where he compared himself to a rogue cop. >> you will have the robe, we call it the rogue cop.

the bad apple. and perhaps you'll have that also with the president. but there is nothing you can do about that. you're going to have to give the president, you're going to have to allow any president to have immunity so that the president can act and do what he feels and what his group of advisers feel is the absolute right thing. so having immunity is so important, and i hope the supreme court has the courage to do that. >> so that's the closing campaign message in new hampshire for donald trump. and his closing campaign event might not be new hampshire at all, but rather a new york city courtroom. trump reportedly wants to testify tomorrow in the second trial stemming from e. jean carroll's defamation lawsuit against him. joining me now, andrew weissmann is the former general counsel of the fbi, and a senior member of special counsel robert mueller's team, and lisa rubin. her first time on our show, which i can hardly believe. she's a brilliant genius lawyer. she's an msnbc legal analyst, she's been working her tail off covering all of these trial.

lisa, so great to have you here. andrew, let me start with you. i'm so happy. andrew, trump laid bare his argument for me today in pretty shocking terms. i just played the clip for everyone. he basically compared himself to a rogue cop, that's how i heard it. you say comments like that make it more important that the court issue a strong ruling against him. so talk us through that, and what that might look like. >> sure. i think that what donald trump is doing, since he's really not going to win in the courts here, is i think he's making the election a referendum on his legal woes. whether it's the e. jean carroll case, which lisa's been covering, or the criminal trials. and he is doing everything he can to avoid a judgment from a jury in those cases. but instead, it's going directly to the voters to essentially say, help me out here. if you actually vote for me,

all of this will go away. i think that the chances that the d.c. circuit is going to say that he is immune, and the supreme court even taking the case, even if they do take the case, which is not at all clear, i also do not think that he is going to find five votes. in fact, there may not be any votes for his proposition. >> that's giving people some hope who are watching this, andrew, which is always important in these dark times. these is obviously here in new hampshire, but trump is reportedly planning to be back in new york tomorrow. you probably are going to be there to. you are in the courtroom all last week, what can we expect if he's there, will he testify, will he get cold feet, what are you preparing for? >> jen, we have to prepare that he is going to come. if for no other reason than the sheer logistics of how disruptive his presence in any courthouse or courtroom has been. however, my expectation is that like he has before, he is bluffing. that he will not come to testify tomorrow.

that is in part because there's a very limited range of issues about which he could permissible testify. this trial is just about damages. it's not about whether he sexually assaulted her, it's not about whether he defamed her or even continues to defame her with each passing day of the campaign. so, ultimately, i predict he won't come, and indeed our folks in new hampshire have not seen any addition that he's preparing to testify by taking the time for witness prep. >> that's interesting. we will see. that'll be an interesting thing to watch. so andrew, one of the reasons it's weirdly important for us to all focus on truth social and pay attention to that is it's part of where trump is showing how obsessed he is about talking about e. jean carroll. he basically can't stop talking about her. he posted about 40 times about her in one day a couple of weeks ago. how does the jury weigh a financial penalty that would actually get him to stop? is there anything that would get him to stop?

and what would it take. what kind of massive judgment, would it be like the kind of massive judgment we saw them do against rudy giuliani last month? >> that's a great question. one of the oddities that lisa and i have experienced when you go to the courtroom, is that the evidence is happening in real time. so you will have the jury being told by what donald trump said hours ago, continuing to defame e. jean carroll. you've got to remember, and that's exactly what happened with rudy giuliani. where he, on the first day, went out and said dilemma for eatery things that were than play to the jury. and the e. jean carroll side is going to sum up to the jury, saying that for punitive damages, you need to ask yourself what is the amount of money that it will take to get him to stop, or at least think twice before he does this. second, with respect to

compensatory damages, an expert was on the sand saying this is the amount of money it takes to repair a reputation. will if donald trump is going out and continuing to defame her day in and day out, that money also would go up. so i think you're going to hear very strong arguments based on the continuing statements. but again, to the main point here, is that donald trump is not vying for the courtroom. what he is saying is going to hurt him in the courtroom, but it is really saying i want a judgment politically on this. >> it's such a confusing thing at times to watch. lisa, in the seconds we have left, what do you make of this question of what size judgment or how his outside actions and words could impact that question? >> you know, jen, when you're considering punitive damages as a jury, it's entirely relevant to consider what it would take to stop a continuing harm. so when e. jean carroll's lawyers are right into the court and saying, while we have

been in court, he has made public statements, that is a deliberate attempt to give the jury permission to increase that punitive damages. but i will also point out to you and our viewers, they're not asking to insert his additional truth social posts, for example, because you could debate who's actually posting on truth social. is it donald trump, or one of his aides liked and scavino? what they are doing is saying, you need to consider the words coming out of the horse's mouth at his post trial press conferences. that to me is meaningful as well. >> the horse has said a lot. lisa rubin and andrew weissmann, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. i really appreciate it. coming up, donald trump's pressure campaign to tank a bipartisan border deal. spoiler alert, he doesn't want to solution. he doesn't want a deal. he wants the problem to run out. we will be right back. out. we will be right back. we will be right back. and prevent my migraine attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain.

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new hampshire that might surprise you. given the location of both of these states in a map of the united states, more than a third of iowa caucus goers last week and said emigration was the most important issue to them. again, that's iowa, which is over 1000 miles away from the u.s. mexico border. i think it's safe to say that those scary migrant caravans everyone speaks about, specifically trump and others, won't exactly be reaching the homes of iowa republicans anytime soon. but guess what? fox news are well. there may be a connection there. take a listen to what some voters told me here in new hampshire just last night. >> what are the biggest issues as you're trying to make your decision in the next couple of days? >> i guess a lot of other people, the economy. definitely the border, meeting the southern border and the northern border, being in new hampshire. >> is the border one of your top issues? >> oh absolutely. >> what worries you the most about the border? >> it's everything.

i mean, the final coming in. the fact that you've got all these illegal -- you don't know who is coming across the border. we don't know how many terrorists. >> presumably, given how much voters care about these issues, leaving republicans to run the country, or who want to run the country, again, let's say, would be eager to find a solution to this issue, right? i mean, there's a deal being currently worked on in the senate right now. senate republicans have been working on a bipartisan baggage that includes increased border security, something they say they want, and new funding also for ukraine. it's definitely imperfect, this bill. but just sticking with the republican electorate here, lots of republican leaders are out there saying this deal is basically as good as it's ever going to get. >> to those who think that if president trump wins, which i hope he does, that we can get a better deal, you won't. >> when the bill is released,

and everyone, particularly conservatives, and president trump, sees the tools that will be available to president trump, should he win the election, to lose this opportunity to get it passed into law, i think is malpractice. >> some people say biden wants it to happen, because it's for him politically. okay. i want border security. that's what i told my constituents that i would do for them. so if we can get that deal, that's a no-brainer. >> dan crenshaw, lindsey graham, tom fellas. three very conservative republicans. not exactly members of the liberal caucus here. they're all saying this is a very no-brainer. but of course, there is just one big problem. >> the president actually just got off the phone with me right before the show, and he said he has spoken to you about this deal, and that he is against it, and he urged you to be against this deal. he was extremely --

president trump was extremely adamant about that. your reaction to that, given the fact that, look, he knows how to do this enforcement stuff. you don't need some new bill coming out of the senate to get the border enforced. >> yeah, president trump is not wrong. he and i have been talking about this pretty frequently. i talked to him the night before last about the same subject. >> there it is. you can always rely on mike johnson, by the, way to take direction from his boss, donald trump, when necessary. but we all know the real reason trump wants to take this deal. he doesn't actually care about solving the problem at the border. he wants the problem. he wants the issue to run on, because it is the fearmongering. the scare tactics. that he's betting on to excite his voters and his base. the border is broken. the immigration system is outdated. it hasn't been updated in decades. and yes, this deal is far from perfect. but if trump is successful in taking the steal, democrats should not let voters forget

it. because trump's fearmongering about immigration is constant drumbeat about the border will continue all the way until november. it's probably going to get worse. and voters will need to be reminded that republicans had a chance to actually do something about the border security, something many of them wanted to do. and donald trump wouldn't let them. congressman ro khanna is standing by here in manchester, and he joins me next. we'll be right back. and he joins me next we'll be right back. we'll be right back. help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ ( bell ringing) customize and save with libberty bibberty. liberty bushumal. libtreally blubatoo. mark that one. that was nice! i think you're supposed to stand over there. oh am i? thank you. so, a couple more? we'll just...we'll rip. we'll go quick. libu smeebo. libu bribu. limu bibu...and me.

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and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99. oh, really? you could carry that in your wallet. of course you could carry it in your wallet, right? yes, yes. this year make a resolution to take care of your heart. don't wait. get kardiamobile card today for just $99 at kardia.com or amazon. us a taste of what the next few weeks will be like if nikki haley gives him a scare here in new hampshire. it doesn't necessarily mean winning, just coming close. because he's been lobbying some increasingly racist attacks against her. he's been mocking her given name and falsely suggesting that she wasn't born in this country. at the same time, haley, in my view, is bizarrely doubling down on her message that america has never been a racist country. >> you're talking about the ideals of america.

but america was founded institutionally on many racists precepts, including slavery. >> but when you look at it saying all men are created equal, i think the intent was to do the right thing. now, did they have to go fix it along the way, yes. but i don't think the intent was ever that we were going to be a racist country. >> joining me now is democratic congressman ro khanna. so, you are here on president biden's campaign team, they were doing a write in campaign, we're gonna spend some time with you later this afternoon. it sounds like it's well organized. >> there is so much enthusiasm here for the president. anyone who says that the president doesn't have enthusiasm needs to come to new hampshire. progressives, moderates, lines outside houses. >> we are going to come spend some time with you and bring it back over the next couple of days. but i do want to ask you, i recently re-read nikki haley's speech from 2015, when she announced the confederate flag was being taken down. it's a bit of a different tune

now, and i just want to get your take on what you make of her response to what is clearly racist attacks from donald trump. >> it's just pointing. i wanted, as an indian american, for her to do well. obviously i don't agree with her, but her parents and my parents have the same story until 1965. asian americans weren't allowed into the united states. it was the civil rights movement that opens up immigration so that nikki haley's parents could come, hear my parents could come here, and i just think she has an opportunity to talk as a daughter of immigrants about her story, and inspire people, and instead she is appealing to a base that's never going to vote for her. >> that speech really does touch on that. so it's been striking, as i re-wrote that recently. one of the things that's interesting to me about sort of the strategy in this primary, i spent some time in the biden campaign recently, you've spent obviously a lot of time with them. is that they are eager for this fight with donald trump. and in some ways, it would be better for them if it was clear sooner, so that they could run the race. but what are they telling you about how eager they are for

the primary to be over, and their preparations for? that >> i think the president has found his voice. he is strong in his speech, he wants to draw a contrast. he stood up for the middle class, working, plus donald trump has had four years, launched tax cuts to very will feed people. -- in terms of new factories. and most importantly, president biden loves democracy. he loves the town halls, he loves the democratic spirit, donald trump doesn't represent that. he's ready to draw the contrast and people like they have his whole career, are underestimating him. look at the enthusiasm for the president here organically. he is not even on the ballot, and house party after house party -- not because of me, because they want to vote for him. >> he also loves people, he is an extrovert, it's quite exhausting, i think it's fair to admit. one of the challenges they've had that they've articulated is that people still don't think donald trump will be the nominee. a surprising number of people. do you expect once that is

clear, if that is clear, we still have more to go here, that more people will see a shift in the polls for the president? >> i do. i think people have been almost rooting in some sense of the media for chris christie or nikki haley. for some of us who are in the house, it's been apparent that donald trump is gonna be the nominee, because all the republican house members, many of them are supporting him. and i think as that becomes clearer, there's going to be more scrutiny not only with donald trump's legal troubles, but his policies. he went in saying forgotten americans, holdout manufacturing, and he didn't do anything. and this president actually has delivered. one of the stories that this president is going to get to tell is he's had a manufacturing revolution in this country, new industries, new factories, all the things that donald trump was talking about this presidents delivering. i can't wait to get to tell that story. >> your old friend, senator bernie sanders, would definitely like him to be making that argument stronger. do you agree with that? and what you think he means by that? what would senator sanders liked to see that he's not seeing? >> i think what senator sanders

would say is look at fdr in 1936. he got a lot done, but he said that people still were struggling. and senator sanders would say we've got to become a working class party, let's talk about a second term with president biden, where he will really fight to make sure we get the living wage, fight to make sure we get childcare, $10 a day, fight for more affordable housing. he should be honest with folks. he is trying to overturn 40 years of near liberalism that got in the middle class. he's not going to deal with that, he probably won't do it in eight years, but he's trying to reverse this absolute free market ideology and sent to the working class. and i think president biden is going to make a good economic argument. >> but the time that we have left, i'm gonna ask you a hard question. which is donald trump is potentially going to be in a courtroom tomorrow. he sometimes blocks out the sun, or all of the space when he is in the courtroom. how do democrats compete with that, in terms of getting the message out? >> i think we stop to make this about all of donald trump's scandals. people know that.

here's what we should say. who's going to deliver for the american public? we understand that the american dream has slipped away. people are getting paid less and their costs are going up, and joe biden, the middle class joe biden, the scranton joe biden, has done that his whole life, and he's done that for four years. it's not perfect, there were obstacles, the senate is a hard place. but that's his fight. donald trump did tax cuts for the rich. the economic argument, i think, is what's going to win this. because ultimately, elections are going to be about what you're going to do for people, not the pick adela's and scandals. >> i'm looking forward to putting my hat and gloves and everything on and going to spend some time out there with you this afternoon. and the boots. thank you so much for joining me. up next, the teen phillips campaign is asking us to name a more iconic duo than him and andrew yang. challenge excepted. how about nbc's -- they're working hard on the trail. mike and emily join me after the break to talk about what success looks like for joe biden here in new hampshire,

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so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. >> the big story here in new hampshire over the next several days is the republican primary, and the race between donald trump and nikki haley. but president biden is facinga rather unique situation of his own. we were just talking about the congressman earlier. he is not even on the baot on the democratic side.

voters here want to cast their ballots for the presidents, they'll have to write his name and. there is a whole local effort to get voters to do just that. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent, mike manley. he has been following what's going on on the democratic side. mike, it's hard to explain this, but do your best, quick and dirty version of how we got here. >> we got here starting four years ago when i was following candidate joe biden all over the state. they saw the writing on the wall. they knew numbers were not looking good for them. he pulled up states. we were outside a polling plate on voting day. we went to north carolina, chased, got there. the argument there, making the first dates, iowa new hampshire, don't represent the diversity of the democratic party, who should be choosing our nominee. once he got into office, took over the dnc, as you do as the president, put south carolina at the front of the line. new hampshire has a law that says we have to go first. we have to go seven days before any similar elections. that's what's happened here. the president didn't file, but there are some others on the ballot here who are campaigning, of course. the local supporters want to

make sure that they were demonstrated support for the president. that's where we are. the president, they win a primary for the first time in his four times running for president, without actually being on the ballots. >> that would be something. so it is very hard to pull a writing campaign, although he is doing better here than a lot of other states. what is success looking like for them? how are they defining that? >> i would say the biden campaign is lowering expectations about what's going to happen here. they're really just ignoring what's going to happen. >> is there a number at all? >> it will point to the fact that there are so few presidents for. this will look at lisa mccarthy lose running as a candidate. you also have a democratic nominee, republican nominee, so there is no blueprint. what would be the dangers, that when you talk to democrats here, who have seen many primaries, they're nervous because of what happened in 78. lyndon johnson did not put himself on the ballot. he got 40% of the vote which was a surprising turnout for a challenger. even though johnson won the primary, he was out of the race three weeks later. when a lot of democrats are

nervous about president, biden is a strong enough to lead the ticket again, a disappointing showing of less than 50% -- >> less than 50. you spent some time with dean phillips who is on the ballot here this week. what is he articulate is his strategy, and how does he define success? >> he said to me that if he got in the 20% range, that would be tremendous, what's his word. you look at the fact that he is the only elected democrat who is running. he is also here on the state campaign. i think he needs to finish ahead to be sure. a lot of people have been speaking to say that they might meet him. that would be a big setback. he says he's in this race until the convention. he plans to go to chicago because he wants to argue, look, the data points will only continue if joe biden can't win. i was talking to some other local democrats. they say too much of his message, and i saw at a couple of events, is about process. it's about what the dnc. that it is not about what his vision is for the country. they're criticizing him saying, listen, he would have more of a chance if he was running about issues and not just policy debate. >> they want a contrast. there were some things democrats may be upset about.

when you come to the biden team, what are they, what are they hoping happens here? i have my own views on this. do they hope that this is wrapped up quickly? what they like to see them duking it out for a while? what is your reporting tell you? >> they're only looking at the new hampshire primary because they do see that this could be the end of the republican nomination. that is why, as you heard, the paraphrase president, biden don't tell me what you value, show me your schedule. i'll tell you what you value. he is going to be in northern virginia, on tuesday, holding his first throat rally with the vice president, talking about what they think is going to be the major issue, one of the major issues this year. abortion rights. they are costing this is the kickoff for them with the general election. they're ready to have this general election argument, for the reasons you talked about earlier, a lot of republicans, even in, polls are saying that they don't have been on many will be donald trump. they think the choice between the almighty, in the alternative, while president biden. >> they love. that the seconds we have left, how do you define a sentence the vibes here, as we like to

say? >> this is my fifth new hampshire primary, jen. i was there in a way, as you were in 16 when we had really competitive races on both sides. even in 2012 in 2021 was only one party, there was still an energy. the seven days between iowa and new hampshire for a political reporter is really the best time to be a political reporter. it just doesn't feel the same here. you only have a couple candidates campaigning. it just doesn't have that same energy. we have seen surprises in the last 48 hours. >> new hampshire makes, it interesting. mike memoli, thank you so much for joining me. we will be right back after a quick, break stay with us. ak stay with us. migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets.

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but we're just getting started here in manchester. we're working on a big show for tomorrow night at eight pm eastern. we'll have lots of gusts here in new hampshire, and we might be talking about a front runners stay in court in new york. we'll see what he does. then we'll be back on tuesday to kick off new hampshe primary coverage at four pm. at six pm eastern, rachel maddow picks up her special coverage with steve kornacki. they will be breaking down result at the big board. for now, stay where you are, there is much more news coming up on msnbc. >> so take a close look at this headline. yes, it is from 2013 and texas. it has a lot to do with the new hampshire primary. mickey mouse, not on the ballot, or is he?