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hampshire, where in just two days, voters will head to the polls the first primary election of the 2024 presidential cycle. but it has been a wild 24 hours in the race for the republican nomination, after florida governor ron desantis once, the next great hope of the republican party not too long ago. i mean, i am talking less than two years ago, the next great hope. he won by 19 points in his own state. but he suspended his campaign for president today, and through his support behind former president donald trump. and here is trump at a rally earlier tonight, talking about desantis's endorsement. >> i'd like to take time to congratulate ron desantis. and of course, a really terrific person. but as you know, he left the campaign trail today at three pm, and in so doing, he was very gracious, and he endorse me. so i appreciate that. >> gracious, we don't get that word a lot from donald trump,

but he is trying to get everybody to support him. so now the race is narrow, a head to head between trump and nikki haley. haley leads trump among independents, a crucial block here in new hampshire, where there are more undecided voters than republicans or democrats. but she is 19 points behind trump overall. so, what comes next, and how close are we to another head to head presidential race between donald trump and joe biden? joining me now, nbc news correspondent dasha burns and ali vitali are hanging with me. new york times national political correspondent shane -- new fresh blood here, so is -- greg political reporter for the atlantic journal of constitution, in an msnbc contributor. and our resident floridian, former republican congressman david jolly, who is going to welcome ron desantis home with a big banner, we hear. he is back with us as well. so -- let me start with you. because you have done a fair amount of reporting on the republican primary. we have been talking a little bit about how this happens, and what it means. but let me start with how this happened. what happened to governor desantis, the next hope for the

republican party, raised $8 million in the first day, won by 19 points, the future. what happened? i mean the >> the future is not the future right now, and that's what's really clear from this race. ron desantis, as you said, entered with big, big hopes. i was actually in this very room with him not that many months ago, when he was campaigning in new hampshire, and he was really seen as the person who could beat donald trump. and what happened is he made a series of bets about what the republican electorate wanted, the chief one was that soft trump supporters, those people who kind of liked donald trump, but weren't really sure that they wanted him again, they were going to be open to ron desantis. and, today we see that those people went strongly back in donald trump's camp, and the one group that didn't are the people who didn't want trump all along. and nikki haley is the person who took over that chunk of the electorate. and so you have her and trump ballot at this point, and -- out of the race altogether. >> the alternative, nikki haley. so greg, new hampshire primaries are obviously pretty brutal. because if nikki haley doesn't

come close, maybe within ten points, or close to that, it may be hard to argue for her to be still in the race. but let's talk a little bit about what happens after this, because there could be a long primary ahead. even if he shocks everyone and winds new hampshire, what does that train look? like >> exactly, the stakes are so high for nikki haley here in new hampshire. but going forward, february 4th, the south carolina primary. the republican voter block -- looks a lot like it looks in iowa, not in new hampshire. and same thing with a lot of the super tuesday states, and georgia march 12th. again, it reflects the south carolina -- more evangelical, more conservative votes. and she can't do well here she doesn't get either an upset victory, or a co-second place. then it spells doom for her campaign moving forward. >> it's very tricky, as the electorate changes. haley though, it's good for her to have a race, she has wanted to be a race between her and donald trump. she is kind of a fun endorser, judge judy, who you talk to today. so tell us a little bit about that. >> you know it's fascinating, i don't think that judge judy

would have the same problem that every other voter i talked to has. which is that judge judy find yourself at someone who voted for michael bloomberg back in 2020 during the primary, that's the last time i interviewed her, when she just endorsed michael bloomberg. and then she said she held her nose and voted for someone in the 2020 election, and then in 2024-year-old -- she would have to hold her nose and probably vote for biden, if you read between the lines of what she told me. but she is someone who has the same enthusiasm problem that every other voter who have met who's voting for nikki haley now dreads having in 2024, come november. i think we have a clip, let's play it. >> she believes what she says. she's, and she's focused, and she's razor sharp. and, neither of the two people who, this is, this is going to be a two person race. >> it is right. now >> it is right now. and i legitimately believe, and so do a whole bunch of other

people, that in a race between donald trump and joe biden, trump is going to be president. and i think that is not a good place for america. >> what happens if in 2024, you end up in the same place that you were in 2020? what do you do, it can't be trump. >> what do you do? -- >> got it, thank you. >> [laughter] hey look >> the holding of the nose. the holding of the, knows the drama vital. but honestly, i've met those voters. i didn't think judge judy would be one of them, but there she is, struggling with the same thing that a lot of haley voters i've met have struggled with, which is that they just do not want to end up in the same 2020 -- with biden versus trump. but i do think that they will either stay home, or i guess -- >> we'll we've been sitting here, -- has been multi tasking, just -- and she has some new reporting we haven't heard yet about what's happening behind the scenes. >> i'm sorry if the cameras have caught me furiously typing on my laptop as i was trying to get this finalized. here i've been working with my

colleagues, jon allen and matt dixon and henry jonas, on a story to try to unpack what has happened behind the scenes of the desantis campaign in these final hours. because frankly, a lot of us were taken a little bit by surprise. i think we all saw the writing on the wall that the path simply wasn't there. but my goodness, this guy, following him from the last many months here, he is a fighter, he really wanted to hang, on he wanted that battle in south carolina, where he thought that there was a stronger base of support from him than in a state like new hampshire. so him calling it today sort of suddenly, how did that happen? so what we learned from at least one close adviser, is that in the hours after he came in that distant second, in iowa, he started to have conversations with some of his closest advisers. and, he started to assess what is the path forward. >> so in the hours after iowa.

and this conversation began, he wasn't there yet, but he started to ask his advisers questions, how do we do this? basically deliberating what the path forward was. and by thursday, this person put to me that the information gaps were closed, they said. he had gotten all of the information he needed to get, but he decided to do one more round of going out there in talking to the voters. he still wanted to go to south carolina, he wanted to go to new hampshire just to have that experience again. so they were all sort of waiting with bated breath to see what he would come back with. and he came back from an event from south carolina on sunday night, came back to tallahassee instead of saying in south carolina, instead of coming to new hampshire, went home, called some of his closest enter -- >> this is last night? >> this was just last night. i know, i don't know what day it is anymore, we've been onset for about 24 hours. he called folks early this morning, to the mansion for a final round of discussions.

and then he and the first lady went upstairs, had a conversation, and came down with their final decision, they had made some notes that eventually went into the video that we all saw today, making that announcement. and there was, according to three sources familiar with the thinking, a pretty wide spread agreement about the trump endorsement, for a variety of reasons. >> that he should drop out. >> that he should drop out. and if he was going to do this, he should make clear that he is endorsing former president trump. >> so, everything happened, and it sounds a lot happen over the last 24 hours. he had to do is own reporting, so interesting to get around the scenes, having been on the inside of the campaign, said it is very interesting to see how that happened -- and we will also know that he canceled an appearance on meet the press. he was supposed to have a rally in new hampshire tonight, so this does explain a lot. >> i mean, he is a very deliberative person. if you know anything about, him he likes to look at data, he likes to absorb as much information as possibly could. so i think once he started to get that feeling after iowa

just did not turn out the way that he thought it would, he started to -- information source. and in the, and he came up with this decision. >> you've been reporting 24 hours, they asked has alex. so thank you for bringing us this new reporting. well david jolly, let me bring this to you. because you know ron desantis, you've been watching him for a while. does any of, that in terms of the deliberation, the fact that he wanted to go back to new hampshire and south carolina, that he decided with his wife last night,. does any of that surprise? you or does that sound kind of in line with how he makes decisions? >> i am so close to this, i want to talk on hunches hope not actual reportable material -- >> [laughter] i like the premise of, that okay. here is why >> i woke up this morning i thought today is the day that desantis strategist probably are talking to trump strategists, and we might see him drop out today or tomorrow. now admittedly, it's because he doesn't want to suffer the humiliation the next four weeks bring. again, hottest --

42 points down on the eve of new hampshire, 50 points down in south carolina, 60 in nevada. so he was going to suffer humiliation. but here is the hunch, and a little bit of the detail. as the campaign wasn't going so well about six months ago, ron desantis brought on a fairly florida republican establishment strategist, that was formally one of my strategists. when i left the party, he stayed. he is a career strategists, and one of the top in the game. and desantis brought him on to see what he could do to fix this. here is the hunch. this strategist was the one in 15 and 16, when i was a sitting -- opposing donald trump, and never came around to support donald trump. we shared a ticket together, he said to me look, you've got a short lease here, because you are not only going to lose this race, but if you keep up this opposing donald trump, you are not going to be viable two years from now. and i got to believe that this strategist had this conversation with the florida governor, and said you are not

only at risk of losing 24, you are at risk of losing 28, and you've got to calculate that if you and casey have plans to run again. >> well, he and casey, it sounds like they may. so, i think the question i have, or one of the questions, many questions, is what happens now? i mean ron desantis, he's got to repair some of his relationships in florida, maybe he runs for senate, there is speculation about that. does he go out and campaign with donald trump? does he help them. i mean, he was under duress during that video, so what are you hearing from your reporting? >> and he would actually diagnose the situation pretty clearly himself last week. he said if you were saying about -- donald from he's going to trash you. if you say good things about donald trump, he is going to say nice things about you. and i was at trump's headquarters today, when he told some of the supporters look, i am retiring the nickname, i am not knew -- he is going to be behind, me i'm going to say nice things about him. there really is one pathway to reconcile with donald trump, and that is saying good things about him. that said, trump has been pretty clear, he feels that ron

desantis was disloyal by running this year, that he had helped him win the election the first in 2018. and so if that is the relationship, it's going to take a longer time to repair. but if you are ron desantis, you saw the very first step is to make nice with the president, the former president, the potential future president. and look, if he wants to run anytime in the future, he is going to be aligned with the trump wing of the party, and he is going to need to be good with them in order to have that support. >> so there is more making nice to be done. >> shane, thank you so much for stopping by, i know we will all continue to read all of the reporting over the days ahead, i really appreciate it. we have much more to get to in this, our special coverage, just how slim is nikki haley's path to the nomination? will donald trump show up to court in new york tomorrow? all of that and more is coming, up at our live conference -- from manchester continues, after a quick break. quick break.

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desantis's exit from the race dropped. >> we just heard, that ron desantis has dropped out of the race. [applause] [applause] >> and i want to say, to ron, he ran a great race, he's been a good governor. and we wish him well. having said that, it's now one fella, and one lady left. [applause] >> but even with desantis out of the race, haley knows she still faces a tough path to the nomination, a very tough path, i think i'll add, even if she pulls off a win here in new hampshire. and that is a big if, because donald trump is leading to haley by 19 points and latest new hampshire tracking poll. and keep in mind, this is a state that is supposed to be the friendliest train to a trump alternative. the friendliest train for nikki haley. and she would have to pull off

a big surprise in her home state of south carolina after that, which could be even better trained for donald trump. it's hard to see how she would stay in this race with an embarrassing loss in the race -- in the states she once let. that would be hard. to be making -- a -- and david jolly are all back with me. so -- let's start with you, because you went to a haley event tonight. it seemed there was a little pep in your step there. she is, she's got to try to get some of these desantis supporters. so, what did you observe at that rally, and what do you hear from her campaign team of what you -- >> while they've been looking for a new jolt of energy, and i was in seabrook new hampshire earlier, right after desantis dropped out of the race, and that first picture we saw as well. and there was a huge crowd of enthusiastic supporters there. but there is a big question of whether or not ron desantis supporters are going to go for her. and there is certainly not any clear answer, because desantis, not only did he endorse trump, but also he is more aligned with the donald trump wing of

the party. these main stream, more middle of the road conservatives and independents, and even some democrats who are backing nikki haley, could also be a double edged sword for her. for donald, trump saying she is being backed by democrats and other liberals, she is a fake republican, and that can be used against her just a few weeks down the road in south carolina. >> let me just go to what could happen on tuesday. because donald trump's 19 points ahead, crazy things happen in new hampshire, believe me i worked for barack obama, and crazy things happen. but if she loses to donald trump, or let's say she loses by more than 15 points, what does that look like? what are the discussions like within the haley campaign right now? >> so let's play the david jolly game of hunches and tells. because a blunt and a half to, you had christened, in the popular governor of the state saying, no doubt haley is going to win by a landslide, that's the word that he used. now, you go back to about a week and a half ago and he, says she is going to do really well here. i asked nikki haley, what is

your best-case scenario? obviously that you win in new hampshire. and i said, what does that look like going past here? and she just says my goal is to do well in iowa, you better in new hampshire, and do better than that in south carolina. that's fine, but better is not first, as we talked about earlier today. and i don't know how you get the nomination without winning a state. frankly, i'm having a little bit of reduction to 2020, when i would ask elizabeth warren a, what happens if you lose your home state? because there is such sensitivity around that, and i sensed that with my haley sources all the time. but then also, how do you stay in on just a delegate strategy alone? i've had these conversations. >> winner-take-all? it's a winner-take-all. >> and trump is going to win that way. >> and i don't have hunches and tell us, here but i do have some reporting from a trip that i went on to south carolina with my colleagues -- >> we love reporting as well. >> [laughter] [inaudible] but we drove all around the state, and we talk to voters in all of the different areas of

south carolina. and i have to tell you, it is trump country. nikki haley's home turf is trump country. since she left the office of the governor there, it has become red, or more conservative, and trump has brought out so many more voters that weren't even engaged when nikki haley was in office. so as soon as i spent time there i was like oh my goodness, she is going to have a, very very hard time looking ahead to south carolina. i mean, it is the luck of the draw of the primary calendar. if it was super tuesday, or super tuesday to on march 19th, a different story. but the fact that it is so soon, and next on the daca, here it is her home state, and the numbers there are just, that is not her base. >> not at all, it is more like the iowa electorate than it is like the new hampshire electorate. okay so david jolly, let's all play this out a little bit further here to. because everybody says they are not endorsing until they endorse. see ron desantis. nikki haley, let's say she doesn't do well in new hampshire, or let's say she

makes it further. at some point, do you think she endorses donald trump? or does she withhold that? >> i would think she does. and look, here is the interesting thing, the numbers just aren't there for her. and i think as ali alluded to, do you go to your home state of south carolina, and really lose that badly? most politicians don't do that. but marco rubio did in florida. and in -- donald trump, jeb bush decided to bow out, he didn't want to lose florida. marco rubio said i'll take a licking. and i don't think rubio won a single county that night, and he ended up dropping out thereafter. i mean remarkably, it was nikki haley who is his chief delegate on the, trail taking the shots at donald trump, when it was rubio's last stand in florida and other states. so maybe nikki haley does have the metal to stay in. but this notion, look the earlier conversation about sexism and racism and xenophobic, i would be the first one to tell you, that is a currency among some republicans in the party. and i think nikki haley is a victim of that, there is no

question. but whether you are male, female, or otherwise, i am not buying nikki haley's stick, that somehow she is the strong candidate. because she equivocate on holding donald trump accountable for january 6th, for the georgia election mishandling. she equivocate on questions of -- and dobbs, she equivocate on e. jean carroll. she hasn't shown that she actually has the metal to really push through whatever this resistance to trump's. so look, i think the no labels group might try to send her an all of branch. i suspect she will shut it down, and fall right in line with donald trump and the republicans, simply because she is a conformist who never really challenges republicans when it matters. >> elie, you were just jonesing to say something there. and i feel like you may have some punches or reporting on haley. >> i think i have both. because i hear what you are saying, david jolly, and like it makes sense that haley would fall in line, because she is a political animal with a finely tuned political barometer. but how do you go from being

the person who represented american small d democracy at the united nations, and then endorse a man who keeps saying that there is a selling point to being a strongman, and then he will be a dictator, even if only for one day. >> that's a good point to be made. on that note, ali batali, dasha burns, shame -- david jolly, thank you so much for hanging with me. greg, stay right where you are for now. because coming up, on the eve of the new hampshire primary, donald trump might not be in new hampshire. he might be in the courtroom in new york. -- and lisa rubin joins the conversation, after a quick break. we will be right. back ight back

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with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. during my time in politics, i did work on several presidential campaigns. and normally, the day before the new hampshire primary is full of final campaign events. a lot of holding babies, and shaking hands on -- visits to diners, a lot of which are in new hampshire. but of course, these are not normal times we're living through, i think we all know that. tomorrow, the second trial stemmim e. jean carroll's

defamation lawsuit against donald trump continues in new york. and trump has claimed he wants to attend, and testify. remember, trump has already been found liable for defaming and sexually assaulting e. jean carroll, this trial is just about how much he has to pay her. and he just can't stop talking about her, he's kind of obsessed with it. at a rally earlier tonight, he once again called her story totally fabricated. joining our conversation now, sean -- analyst for nbc news, john -- and msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin. so lisa, let me start with you, because you were covering this trial all last week. we don't have confirmation yet that trump will go tomorrow. but if he goes, what do you expect, what are you watching, for and what should he expect? >> you know, one of the things i'm watching for, jim, is what -- does a prior deposition trump have given, get introduced as evidence. ? normally speaking, you don't get to play video clips from prior depositions whenever you feel like it. one exception to that though,

is when the person who's deposition clips you are playing is themselves a party in the case. that's called a party admission. and you'll remember that donald trump has given lots of depositions recently. in fact last friday, we all got the video of his deposition in the attorney general's case. in that deposition, donald trump makes a bunch of really damning statements, although he considers them great statements, about how much he is worth, how much his brand is worth, how much cash he has on hand. those are all not only fair game, but highly relevant here to the question of punitive damages. how much money will it take to punish donald trump. and that is a question you answer differently if somebody has $10 in the bank account, for example, forces hundreds of millions of dollars in their bank account. so even before donald trump has the opportunity to open his own mouth, he might be in the very uncomfortable position of watching himself on tape, in court, hearing himself speak,

even though he is silent. >> that's quite uncomfortable. i don't know if he will be uncomfortable, i guess we will have to see. so you are obviously a legal eagle, lisa, not a political analyst. but you do watch all of this. i mean, we have seen what he has done in the courtroom, we would expect fully for him to do that tomorrow, again, if he shows up. how do judges weigh that and look at that? i mean we are quite close to him becoming officially the nominee of the republican party. >> well you know jen, the decision here belongs to a ninth person jury of seven men and two women. not the judge. on the other hand, the judge is the gatekeeper of his courtroom. he not only decides what evidence comes in, but what behavior is tolerable. and when donald trump was seen in his courtroom last week, both mouthing very visibly, that's not true, two things e. jean carroll, for example had said. or even audibly making statements like that. he called her a disgrace, for example, in court. judge kaplan made clear that behavior is not tolerable.

and while trump has the right to attend the trial, he doesn't have a right to be destructive. and i think trump is actually wanting that confrontation with -- who understands the psychology of donald trump a very well. one of the ways kaplan is keeping him in line is by not promising any particular punishment, but by just making clear that at some point, the hammer may fall on donald trump. the fact that trump doesn't know how that hammer may fall, whether it is going to be cash damages or a fine, or even contempt of court, it is what's keeping him on the right side of the line. we will see if he stays there tomorrow. >> all right, -- john -- let's just talk for a second about the over lapping legal calendar, political calendar. it's starting to feel quite close to a general election here. what does that look like? will trump's strategy change at all in the courtroom? >> we'll, god knows right. i mean, we're in the realm of pure speculation. here >> yeah, i'm asking you to

speculate? [laughter] >> i've never taken one of those before. look, i think if they're theirs -- what we know about donald trump, which is that the kinds of behavior that the confrontationally tactics, the flamboyant, attacks the operatic tactics, the going outside the bounds of who would ever be considered normal -- anybody in a legal case has ever, before little on former president, have in his mind. and in some senses, in reality, has worked for him. he has gotten just tons of feedback over the course last year, that we have now -- polling graphs, every time he gets indicted, every time he has a courtroom controversy, it strengthens him with the electorate that he cares about right now. this is the thing jen, that i think we will often forget when they analyze politics, that you know really well. there are two elections. you have to win the nominating election, and then you want to the general election. so people talk >> and the electorate is different. >> the electorate is different, and it's not that the stuff you

say in the nomination fight can come back to haunt you in the general election. but if you don't get nominated, you never get to fight in the general election. so whether it's a democrat, whether it's barack obama or hillary clinton, or whether it's joe biden, or anybody who is on the republican side, they are focused in this first phase with, what do i need to do to get the nomination. and for trump, what has worked for him, in terms of strengthening and making him apparently unassailable as the republican nominee, is behaving in this outrageous, outlandish way, in the court of law. what that will do in a general election, we'll move to that face, when people start to focus, when we get to the summer. there will have been a number of these cases, whether in georgia or in washington, where it will be a totally different place at that point. i have no idea what is going to happen then. but i know that up until this nomination is locked up for donald trump, he is going to keep behaving like this, because it is, in this narrow sense, working for him. >> so let's talk about the voters. to john's point -- his point, here it is different. i mean to win back the presidency, you have to win the electorate in a general

election. very different than the republican primary. you obviously talked to tons of voters in georgia, but also here in new hampshire, other places in the country. what do they say? i mean we are obsessively following all these legal cases, most of them are probably not. how do they weigh what trump is doing in the courtroom or not? how does it impact some of these handful of swing voters that both of these candidates are going to need? >> what we used to say there is a political line between trump's campaign and his legal strategy. now there is no line at all. >> right. >> and republicans in georgia will say the turning point for donald trump, at august 8th when he was arrested, when he took that famous mugshot -- from inside the fulton county jail. but when i talk to voters you know, the small number of swing voters in places like georgia, they are still really split, they are still really worried. but poll after poll after poll, including the -- latest poll, shows a significant majority of republicans feel like these prosecutions are politicized, and they're using that as a rallying quite -- to reunite around donald trump. it will be a tough thing to watch, but -- we will watch it on a broader

spectrum. greg, thank you so much for hanging with us tonight, and for joining us here. lisa rubin -- we will be watching you tomorrow, and seeing what you have to say about the trial that you will be covering. john is of course sticking around with us. coming up, one issue that is looming large in new hampshire that you might not expect. we will be right back. l be right back. ( ♪♪ ) we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that sweet shot. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem, we're going for a better treatment than warfarin.

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caucus goers last weekend that immigration was the most important issue to them. again, that's iowa, which by the way is over 1000 miles away from the u.s. mexico border. and here is what voters in new hampshire told nbc's shaq brewster this week. >> why donald trump? >> donald trump, because i want a closed, border and i want to feel safe again. and i want to enforce law and order of the land. >> the illegals are just, invading our country. and, this government is giving them housing, and free cell phones, and everything else, free food, and it's not fair to us. >> the major thing with me is, our border. i mean, we lost -- 2 million since may in this country. how long is that going to take before it ruins the entire country? >> so that's what voters in new hampshire are saying, and it's worth pointing out that right now, donald trump is trying to tank a bipartisan border package that is being worked on in congress.

so >> reporter: -- is back with me, and join the conversation is nbc news correspondent shaq brewster, who did those interviews. so let's start with you, because you've been talking to voters all across new hampshire, that was just a sampling of it. how often is this issue coming up? and did it surprise you how frequently it came up as an issue? >> oh no, talking to republican voters, that is the top issue that comes up. when you ask what is most important to them, what is most animated to them, that is the issue that comes up. and by the way, it is not just new hampshire, we have new reporting in wisconsin, when i'm talking to voters in michigan. despite the distance from the border, that is the -- that comes. up and it is not just an economic argument. as you heard one of the gentlemen make in that video they are in new hampshire, there is something a little bit more unique, and it's connected to the drug issue. new hampshire is one of the states that has been hit hardest by the opioid epidemic, so when people are looking. >> and they mentioned fentanyl a lot. >> exactly, and when they see their neighbors addicted to drugs, or they know someone who died of a fentanyl overdose,

they see the images of the border. they combine that with the rhetoric that we hear from political leaders, and that issue that seems so far away, for them, it becomes very personal, and very animating for them. >> even the majority of fentanyl comes from -- crossings i think i should mention, not all of this is completely rational. so -- let me ask you this. there is of course a border deal being negotiated on capitol hill, the number of prominent republicans, conservatives support this deal. donald trump does not want the deal to happen, he has given his guidance to mike johnson who is like yes sir, the deal will not happen. that is basically my summary. i mean basically, trump doesn't want this to happen, because he wants to run on the border. is that fair to say? >> yes. >> yes correct. what else do you think this is telling us about how he is going to run in a general election? it's fearmongering, it's fear of the other. do you think this is a continuing issue he tries to run on, through october and november? >> i mean look, the immigration issue and the saliency of that, it is hard to overstate how

important was in 2016, when people actually went back and look at the numbers and see how important was -- it was an issue that has worked for him, it is an issue that he cares about. it is all of these various components to this, some of which have to do with fear about the cultural change that's going on in america, about obviously the race -- issue. but obviously it's the case that there are a lot of democrats who, the reason that this issue cuts is that the images that jack is talking about, this is a nationalized -- we live in a world where people in new hampshire watch the same stuff that's on television, and see the same stuff that's on the internet that people see in wisconsin. or if you happen to be in texas, where you see it in a much more -- than in california. and, democrats are now tacitly, explicitly acknowledging that there is a border crisis, and that the administration is blamed for it. and it is urgency, and trying to get this done, it is an admission that it has not, it is a politically damaging issue. and substantively, that there is a problem at the border, that shows that the biden administration and democrats

are acknowledging. and i agree, there is no doubt trump is trying to play politics, or that he wants to run on the issue. but it is not wholly made up in the minds of voters. but there is an issue -- and i don't think he's doing as good -- >> this is a really important, point because if you are sitting in unsolved, the biden campaign right, now in the biden white house, you desperately want this deal to happen, for basically a version of why the trump team wants it to happen. >> doesn't want to happen. >> doesn't want it to happen. because you know politically, they know politically this is a problem, that it is a problem for them, and they need to figure out a way to do something on. let me ask you guys, because you have been out there talking to tons of voters, what are they saying, since we're getting a little closer to a general election here, about a trump biden rematch? >> yesterday, i spent the day in laconia, at a place called fun spot. people are trying to just have their. fun >> fun? spot >> funds, but it's an arcade, bowling it's i knew there was a fun spot. and i knew that if i had that plans for tomorrow now. that's right people we're trying to endure the their saturday afternoon, saturday

morning with their kids, families out there. and i would go up and talk to voters. and whenever i mentioned, what do you think when you see polls suggesting that it's going to be a biden and donald trump rematch, their faces would turn into smiles. you heard words like disgusting, i am upset. there was one lady. and you know, one thing that you see is that the vast majority of people that i talked to said they don't plan to go out and vote. it's not just be undecided, it's not just choosing a candidate, but i don't want to participate in this process, because i'm so angry about my options here. and, there was one lady who talked to me about how much she despised donald trump. she went on for about two minutes, talk about classified documents, talking about some of his policies, saying if working people did what he, did they would be in jail. and i asked what i thought was an obvious question of, well if it's donald trump and joe biden, who do you support? she said, donald trump. and she said i can't support joe biden, because i think he's too old. and that is, some very funny things can happen in a general election. >> and here's what i'll say about this. i mean on polling like, this you see people say, 75% of the

country, 70% of the country doesn't want this race. and the polling. >> nikki haley says that. what >> she does, and there's a lot of data that suggests it's true. it's a very, very long between now and how people feel about this once the general election is litigated. i will say, no one at this table has not had the experience of the last six months of someone, people coming up to them. people who are liberal, people or conservative, people who are in the middle, who come up and say something to the effect of, is this really the best we can do? is this really, do i really have to choose? i mean there is this pervasive malaise about it, across the ideological spectrum, and that creates a really weird environment. when normally we have polarization, democrats love democrats, and the republican loves the republicans. the candidates, we now have just a lot of people in the country like -- i don't want it. >> we have to go to a quick break. you are both going to come backf days when we are here, thank you both so much for joining me this evening, we really appreciate it. coming up, someone who knows

new hampshire politics better than most, congresswoman annie kuster is standing by. and she joins me next. we will be right back. we will be right back.

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this week, while it will course be the now to person race between donaldtrump and nikki haley, for the republican nomination. on the democratic side, joe bin n't even on the ballot. according to the dnc, the president is prohibited from his own party rules,from competing on tuesday, because

of the move in the primary calendar. and what the party is calling a meaningless primary, the new hampshire, won the one in the state we are sitting in currently. -- they have to write in his name. that's not always easy to do. join me now is democratic congresswoman amy custer of new hampshire. congresswoman, first of all, thank you so much for staying up with us this evening. i wanted to start with this writing campaign. i know everyone is working hard on, we had congressman ro khanna on earlier. what does success look like for the biden team on tuesday? >> well we want to win, and i think that's the first goal. we want to make sure that democratic voters and independent, undeclared voters that choose the democratic ballots, know that joe biden is not on the ballot, and how easy it is to just drop to the bottom of the ballot, fill in his name. luckily it is easy to spell, joe biden. and fill in the little -- to make sure that your vote gets counted. and so we just want to make sure that everyone gets the

word, we are supporting joe biden for a second term, we are very enthusiastic about it. great events all weekend long, and i am really looking forward to a decisive win. >> 50 plus one win, it sounds like you are saying, what you are calling -- said something similar. there's also the matter that your other colleague, democratic congressman dean phillips, he is of course challenging biden in new hampshire, he is on the ballot. he was greeting trump supporters earlier this evening ahead of his rally in rochester, it's a little strange. but he also said he was treated better there than he has by the state party of new hampshire. what is that all about? i mean he has positions that are certainly aligned with, i think many of your, as with the presidents. but, what is that all about? why would he have been at a trump rally? why is he so concerned there? >> i can't even imagine. i know dean well, we've talked about it when he decided to run. i told him i thought it was ill-advised, and frankly i

think it's been pretty unimpressive campaign. i've been here in new hampshire on political campaigns for president for almost 50 years. when i was 16 years old, it was the first one. and he has been using some very unorthodox techniques. frankly, i think just to get in the news. i don't think he has caught on with the voters, and i don't think he has taken the time, and had the positions. what new hampshire voters are looking for, what are your values, what's your vision of where the country is going, and how you're going to make a difference? and i really haven't heard that articulated with his campaign. >> i know congresswoman, you are a proud democrat, but there is a big republican primary happening here. ron desantis obviously dropped out earlier this afternoon, which means it's a two-person race. you know the electorate quite well here, what are you expecting on the other side of the aisle on tuesday? >> well it's interesting, i've

been reading the pundits tonight, expecting the desantis votes to go to donald trump. i disagree with that assessment, we will find out on tuesday. but the desantis votes could have gone to donald trump at any point in time. desantis has not made a serious effort here in new hampshire, hasn't caught on with the voters. i think they could sort of see through them a bit, if you will. so i expect those are never trump voters, and i would expect that they will gravitate to nikki haley, as she comes on strong in the final days. she's got a surge going on right now, obviously our governor chris sununu, a very popular governor. i think he pulls in the 80s at this point, after eight years. coming on for her, and really making the case that donald trump is a threat to our country, he is unfit to be president. and i hope both sides of the

ballot, both the democrat right in biden effort and the nikki haley effort will send a strong message to the rest of the country, he cannot have another term. >> we have about a minute left here congressman. but i do want to ask you, i mean, do you hope that this is all cleared up on tuesday, so that the biden campaign can move forward with the general election, and we make it clear that's between biden and trump? >> i do. and i think it will be, certainly on our side. i hope nikki haley gives donald trump a run for the money. but look, here is where we are. this is such an important election. i am wearing my planned parenthood pink, because we are celebrating what would have been the 51st anniversary of roe this week. and, i know here in new hampshire, people care so much about their autonomy, their reproductive rights. we care about building our economy, that president biden has been doing all across this

country, bringing down costs, saving the planet, and using his leadership around the globe in fighting for democracy in ukraine, and taking care of the israel and gaza situation, and fighting for democracy right here at home. so i hope people will get out to vote, make their choice, and i'm looking forward to a successful day on tuesday. >> congresswoman annie kuster, lots to talk about, lots to celebrate this week. i wish we were celebrating the 50th anniversary of roe. >> i wish we were. >> but we are celebrating -- fire in their bellies. thank you so much for joining us this evening. that does it for me tonight, i'll be right back here at the desk here in manchester tomorrow night at eight pm eastern. but for now, stay right where you are, because there's more news coming up on msnbc. coming up on msnbc.

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