since october 7th, israeli troops haves rescued only one hostage alive. more than 130 are still in captivity. a fact that weighs heavily here. >> we're really trying to find them. >> reporter: the tunnels lie below the city. much of it destroyed by israeli airstrikes. this is all that's left of the home that took a man 13 years to build. everything is erased, even memories. we can't get anything out, he says. so much suffering, above and below ground. >> "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington. i'm michael steele. how exactly do you run against

an autocrat facing dozens of ny charges with an ax to grind against the government he seeks to lead. that's a question that republican candidates are either unable to answer or unwilling to answer at this moment. there's now just one major challenger to ex-president trump after florida governor ron desantis dropped out and endorsed donald trump. it's hard to remember but for a time, ron desantis was seen as the much vaunted trump slayer, the one candidate who could break the hold on trump that he had on the voters in the republican party. appeal to those alienated by trump and ultimately beat joe biden. back in 2022, the new yorker asked, can ron desantis displace donald trump as the combatant in chief? "the new york times" asked, quote, is ron desantis the future of the republican party? but a las as it turned out, voters didn't want a trump alternative, they wanted trump. that became clear as his legal

troubles mounted with every indictment the trump got stronger in the polls. and then there was the matter of ron desantis' own campaign. tens of millions of dollars spent that barely moved the needle. an op-ed put it this way. the desantis team ran the worst campaign in history. from that piece, quote, the candidate did not match t hype. he was less than advertised. in person, he was a dmin native politician. the campaign introduced him as a broigt but socially awkward introvert, a nerd who did not enjoy people, which was a problem since voters tend to be people. now the republican presidential primary is the two-person contest that hah legal always wanted. that's the good news for the nikki haley campaign. the bad news, she remains far behind in the polls in the new hampshire and especially in her home state of south carolina. and that is where we start today with opinion editor at "the washington post" and author of

"the prompt newsletter", which discusses all the big election activity here in the 2024 cycle, alexei mckammam. and with me at the table amanda carpenter, but first, let's bring in vaughn hillyard in new hampshire. how you doing out there? >> reporter: we're doing okay. we're 36 hours left. we're fairing pretty decent hi in this two-person race. >> let's start with the idea that the trump cap campaign is planning to bring out a few candidates. what's the message? is it time for the party to unite around trump? is everyone getting that vibe to go in that direction? >> reporter: we have been hearing this for eight yaerz. ted cruz is running and wanted this to be a two-person race, we heard nikki haley say she wanted it to be a two-person race. for the first time in history,

it is an actual two-person republican primary race against donald trump. but instead of coalescing around that trump alternative, the coalescing is around donald trump. it's nikki haley that is on her own island. it is ron desantis and even south carolina congresswoman nancy mace. this is a moment here for donald trump in which there is acknowledgment by not only himself but also his campaign staff and an urging for nikki haley to leave this race if she doesn't win new hampshire because the party should focus its resources on joe biden and beating democrats and the suggestion is there's not a single state in which nikki haley is in polling beating donald trump and instead is down by double digits across the

country. she should allow the republican party to focus its aim on taking joe biden out. >> you mentioned one of the latest persons to endorse donald trump is south carolina congresswoman nancy mace. i want to play something she said in the aftermath of january 6th. take a listen. >> how do we hold a president accountable that put all our lyes at risk? this was a traumatic event for many members of congress, and i believe in the days to come, as we learn more, the worse social security going to get. we feared for our lives. i want to be a new voice for the republican party. we need to rebuild the republican party and rebuild our country. >> this idea of rebuilding our country, that conversation then vs. now, are you hearing anything about that change? ors it's just i'm glad you're on board and let's move forward. >> reporter: that's not only what we hear from donald trump, but also his supporters saying

that bigger republican party is a better republican party. and that in the kiss of nancy mace, it's hard to say that there's been no more transactional politician in recent mesh history than donald trump. and nancy mace is an extension of that. i was on the campaign trail just a year and a half ago in south carolina when donald trump was campaigning against her, trying to oust her from office in a republican primary by backing katie arrestington. on the campaign stage, donald trump called nancy mace untruthful, called her a grand standing loser, and nancy mace squeaked out that primary against a trumba candidate. and look where we find ourselves. not only is the campaign manager still in the ball game, he's the south carolina state director for donald trump. and nikki haley, she campaigned during that primary for nancy

mace. i was there on the day of one of her events when nikki haley was holding the mike even if foehn. when she turned it over, she said thank you for fighting for conservatives around the countrys. look how far it got her. nikki haley is running an isolated campaign. republican finally got what they wanted. a two-person race and there's little in terms of anybody standing beside the candidate that is not donald trump in that race. >> let's pick up on vaughn's point about the particulars of tim scott. coming out and endorsing nikki. given that nikki haley was the one who elevated him to the

senate seat. what does that say at this point where you have that kind of payback f you will? is it so transactional that those relationships don't matter, that the guy you're endorsing is donald trump and we all know what that means? how do you assess what tim scott is doing here? >> i don't necessarily think that tim scott owed nikki haley an endorsement because she appointed him to the seat, that said, he did owe her some respect. that video that he taped before making the endorsement outside the trump plane, doing it in new hampshire in that way seemed vindictive in ta way that wasn't necessary. but that's what donald trump likes. that's the kind of atitude he encourages and solicits among his supporters. what the endorsement tells me is more about what he thinks his own political future should be. maybe hoost trying out to be vp. i think he's angling to run for

governor because he said he won't run for another senate term. he wants to get trump on his side. it's what chris christie said. what led him to keep supporting trump even though i knew better. i put my ambition ahead of decision making. it's because you talked about why there hasn't been a strong trump alternative. no one has the temerity or imagination to go out and try to not only talk to voters about what the republican party can and should do better, jumping off that moment of clarity we all had after january 6th. that moment nancy mace, that was the moment people needed to start thinking about a trump all the ty. staying in that space and energy, but instead, they said this is really hard. a maybe they got scared because the threats are real. i don't want to dismiss that. they didn't the want to fight for better.

so to that point about putting out the false narratives. donald trump could be on the verge of winning the gop primary. we see that. and yet as you pointed out, he's posted about e. jean carroll 42 times just today. and it really kind of goes to the point that he's made his whole campaign about his legal troubles. that is part and parcel of who he is, false narratives notwithstanding. >> he said republicans come to his defense. elise stephonic was here campaigning for him. i asked about e. jean carroll, and she said she does not believe her, despite a jury finding donald trump to have sexually abused her. for donald trump, this is part of not only his own grievances

and not only making himself a martyr, but it's about making the republican party martyrs as a whole. he so often says i'm the one standing in the way between the federal government and dwrou you're. there's a true sense among so many folks that i talk to at these events who come out in the masses and that donald trump is a cultural figure that is stepping outside of the traditional politics as we know it here. and that is where donald trump understands even if it is a trial over sexual liez or financial fraud. for donald trump, he continues to talk about it. he continues to make it a political point up on stage because he needs the masses to defend him. and that's the 14th amendment

hearing it's a about to come up over whether he's disqualified from the ballot. his own lawyers in the fiings of the supreme court contended there would be bed lumbar if donald trump were to be disqualified. for donald trump, he needs to make it clear it's not just him if this this fight, but he's engaging politically the masses in his trials to make the fight larger and more consequential than just one man potentially having to pay a woman millions of dollars or lose a business license or go to prison. but this is a about defending a maga movement, a conservative movement in the future of this country. >> it's important to give the context of what you just said. you did have that conversation. i want to play a little bit of that sound. it drives home the point that you just made. let's take a listen. >> these are witch hunts against donald trump, whether it's the

bogus case from letitia james who are is a radical prosecutor. they are all witch hunts. no, of course, not. they are all witch hunts. and the reason why is because he's oling ahead of joe biden and joe biden is the weakest candidate we have ever seen. >> i want to get alexei's response to that audio. how do you see this playing out, this maga in effect that donald trump has, who was not maga and yet is it just the transactional stuff? what's going on with this? >> i think it's similar to congresswoman nancy mace, what is whatever is most plitically

expedient is what they will move forward. that's why we saw a lot of republicans who were pretty quiet in 2022, even after they showed pretty poorly in the midterms. they were waiting to see not only what donald trump was going to do for 2024, run for president, but whether anyone else would run to challenge him. so i think there's obviously a stronghold that trump has on the party, but what is most striking to me it's like trump has this hold over them where they can't have their own opinions and can't see their own facts for what they are. and it's remarkable to me, nikki haley is ascendant at the same time the when this primary electorate is rewarding someone like donald trump, who is currently on trial for defamation against a woman who he was found to have sexually assaulted. how do we square those two

things when they are thinking about not just 2024, but the future of the party. what is their place in the party when they are giving up on believing women who say anything that has any negative connotation or negative behavior to do with donald trump. >> it does beg that question. how say how do you square that? and when you're look at ron desantis, he was supposed to be the great save carrot. why didn't that work? and how do voters in the gop square that, particularly women voters square this dual approach that we see playing out here. >> it's kind of a big question. i think let's start -- number one, ron desantis didn't make it. he was an echo, not a choice

from trump. and he was always this guy waiting in the wings, hoing that the big actor wouldn't make it on stage and he would be the understudy. they liked the main guy. on this it whole witch hunt idea, this is bigger than the e. jean carroll case. this narrative set in deep among republican voters. i'm not just talking about the maga baste. marla goat was searched, all of these lawsuits from indicts, they al glob together. if you want to know how serious this was, look at the way congress created a weaponization committee to investigate this kind of stuff. not only against trump, but conservatives. this is how seriously they took it and how much time they spent promoting it. the investigations that are coming, and i think the way to think about this is this is the big lie. this is the way that donald

trump has already told his supporters that if the election doesn't go by me, it's bauz the government was weaponized against me. they don't want me to run again. and this is so easily understood that there really needs to be pushback on this. that when there's a giant -- the january 6th investigation that the department of justice has done is the largest criminal investigation they have ever done. they prosecuted thousands of people, reams of evidence. so when he's talking about pardoning the rioters, he's talking about nullifying all of those massive efforts by dedicated law enforcement officials, not just the january 6th attack, he wants to exonerate all of it, wipe it clean and say, you know what, they did nothing wrong. they are hostages. and that's the law. and straight from the president. >> this gives him the peace of mind. it exonerates them, it exonerates him.

vaughn hillyard, thank you so much for your work out there. really appreciate you. when we come back, how nikki haley is campaigning in new hampshire with one day to go and how that's officially a two-person race. she's turning up the heat against the ex-president. but it maybe too little to late. plus we'll dig into the biden administration's renewed focus on reproductive rights ahead of the 2024 election. they have a sharp new ad airing in some key markets. we'll show you some of that. and later in the show, maybe the real reason donald trump is running for president again is to stay out of prison. his latest calls for full presidential immunity, all those stories and much more, here when "deadline: white house" continues after this. "deadline: white house" continues after this on my bed... my couch... my jacket or jeans. in between washes. even shoes. febreze doesn't cover up odors with scent, but fights them and freshens! over one thousand uses. febreze fabric refresher.

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tomorrow's primary provides an extra order nar opportunity for nikki haley to showcase her political viability, it's no secret that a positive result appears overwhelmingly unlikely. by virtue of her opposition to trump, the governor is on an island even the congressional dell grags from her home state is in the tank for the other guy. what haley does have is an argument that's been showing itself these past few days. that is mental acuity. viewers of this program will be well acquainted with donald trump east increasingly frequent mental lapses, and it happened again this weekend when he repeatedly confused hley with former house speaker nancy pelosi. and a rant about january 6th. just listen for yourself. you'll get the point.

>> nikki haley, you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything? deleted and destroyed all of it. because of lots of things. like nikki haley is in charge of security. we offered her 10,000 people. soldiers, national guards, whatever they want. they turned it down. >> he claimed that joe biden was going to get uses into world war ii. i'm assuming he meant world war iii. he said he ran against president obama. he never ran against president obama. he says i'm the one that kept security from the capitol on january 6th. i was nowhere near the capitol on january 6 president be put you don't be surprised if you have someone that's 80 in office. their mental stability is going to continue to decline. that's just human nature. >> joining our conversation is

ali vitali out in new hampshire. alexei and amanda are still with us here. so ali, we mentioned the haley argument is being received and being made for her almost every day. you're there in new hampshire. what are you hearing? is this mental acuity argument or contrast beginning to matter to voters? or is this just one more thing that they are just not paying to what it comes to trump? >> reporter: i think if you're already a nikki haley voter and you're in that lane of voters who just wants an alternative to trump, i do think this is an argument you're paying teengs to. at the psalm time, the other side of that coin is that trump supporters don't really want to hear it about trump's mental fitness or any of the things they find disqualifying. they don't want to engage on the idea he helped to foemt an intersection. none of these things are changing their minds. i think nikki haley's argument

is an important one for her to make, it's one she had been more dell indicate around until trump gave her that opening, but it isn't one that's going to turn this race on its head and completely flip the way that voters are going to vote here in new hampshire or at a place like south carolina and nevada, which come next down the calendar. i will tell you that i spoke with nikki haley just in the last hour or so a at one of her last campaign stops this afternoon. what i asked her about was what happens here in new hampshire if you come in second, which technically at a place level on the rankings list, second is better than the third place finish in iowa, but what happens when you're second out of two? how do you not spin that as a loss still? haley said her only goal has been to do better in new hampshire than she did in iowa and do better yet as the calendar progresses. she's vowing to stay in the race through nevada, south carolina, and even through super tuesday because in haley's words, voters deserve a chance to vote.

she wants to continue to be that trump alternative. >> so you have president biden, who has taken measure his fair share of attacks from republicans on the mental acuity. after trump's most recent lapse, the biden campaign shot back. they came back with a very interesting video. take a listen. >> i wasn't in office then. thr saying he got confused. >> i need to buy a loaf of bread. you have i.d. to buy a loaf of bread. >> what? >> i'm driving over a road where it's almost all paper. >> you can see paper. i know paper. i know cans. but awl the time we see whales washing up on shore because of the wind. >> our veterans don't have cell phons. >> he got confused. he got confused and said he was running against o'ball. >> we did with obama. we won an election that everyone said couldn't be won.

>> obama doesn't want to talk about it. >> you mean president biden. >> don't put our country at risk like this. >> i'm joe biden. i approve this message. >> that's a pretty sharp comeback. is that an effective strategy at this point to sort of come out of the gate with something, take on one of trump's primary criticisms of biden and flip it around? >> when i saw that video, i thought finally. any time you turn on fox news, you can see a number of compilations that look exactly like that, but are featuring joe biden. i feel like they absolutely need to start hitting back while obviously trying to balance it with him still being the president and not wanting to get into these dirty political campaign fights. i think what will be really interesting though will be the general election given they are both the nominees for their parties. if voters are constantly reminded that trump is old and

crazy, they say, and trump is saying the same about biden, i feel like that will just lead to even more depressed turnout than we're already worried about because you're like, yeah, we have two old guys running against each other. now trump doesn't seem as physically fit as i might have thought he was in the past, people might say, and so i'm just going to stay home or vote for someone in the third party because we got these two old guys that i didn't want in the first place. now they are both talking crazy. there's going to be a line to walk for sure as joe biden tries to figure this out. it can't just be these two cute posts on social media. age is hard to get around. it's just a matter of who you'll trust more with the highest powers in the country. >> an important point. i want to bring out more broadly. you have been very involved in this space.

and this idea of age and mental acuity, it's resinated. it does have some place for voters at some point. how do you most effectively combine those two things in making a case against trump? is this a good way to sort of reach that ground and say, hey, look at this too. >> listen, the fatigue that is going to set in around this election is very real. if you think about it, trump came down the golden staircase in 2015. we have been a at this for almost ten years. ten years. and this is the third time in three straight presidential elections that donald trump's name will be on the ballot. you're a also going to have the dynamic of an incumbent running against an incumbent that a the lot of people don't like and are going to tune out. what i have been trying to do, we put out a report last week about the stakes of the election

really zoning in with laser focus on how donald trump would make his promises policy if elected president. we really separate the most important things about how he would govern as an executive, and it goes through it department by did the. the easiest way to think about it is this time around, there's a wide embrace, not only by him, but awl the people around him. you look at the heritage foundation and america first poicy institute, they want to expand executive power in such a way that all of the federal government employees are essentially political loyalists. so you have to look at how that plays out at the department of justice when he's investigating his plait political eneies. at a the department of defense, when he wants to put down protests like he did at lafayette square. when he's on the campaign trail, he's talking about very specific things about i will invoke the enemies act on day one. there's a reason why he says that. that's how he grabs and uses and abuses executive power to have

forces on the streets to do his will. i'm an immigration hawk. i am for tough border enforcement, but once you give a president that kind of power, it spins out of control. you don't get it back. he finds oh ways to use it. >> that's a very good point. you have to look at the men acue tu conversation around the consequences of a presidential that wants to do those things. ali, i want to get back to you regarding elise. she's reported to be among a group of officials being considered for trump's vp position. i think that's his choice. but last week, she echoed trump and called the january 6th rioters hostages. you asked nikki haley about that. what did she say to you? >> reporter: i'll let her say it herself. but you're right, i i did ask that question because if you're in a binary with the former

president, january 6th, to me and most of us, is one of the most consequential issues. it's the future of our small democracy. listen to what nikki haley said in response to that question. >> they have been convicted and done something guilty, no, they are prisoners that are paying a pras. if they are sitting in jail and not getting a hearing, that's something different. i would hope that they are hearing these cases quickly and finding them either innocent or guilty quickly. this should happen. so as far as i know, if you committed a crime, you have to be held accountable. if you didn't and were just protesting that day and using your freedom of speech, you shouldn't be. >> reporter: but here's the thing. we have seen nikki haley be on a few different sides of january 6th, both condemning trump for it, but then also i trying to sort of paper over it as such a consequential pivot point. this answer is yet another instance of seeing that. no, she's not saying what elise and donald trump and several others in the republican party are saying, which is that anyone who is being prosecuted or

jailed right now for their participation in an insurrection are hostages, but you do watch her equivocating there saying that the law would demand that if you have done something illegal, you should be held accountable for that. but also making this point as a concession almost to the trump base that might be listening that there were some people there exercising their freedom of speech and being at a protest. we all know what this looked like on capitol hill. this wasn't a protest. i think it's a really good example of nikki haley being forced to contend with some of the things that trump is putting into the ether and laying as a litmus test for other republicans to either get on board with or outright disagree with. you're seeing there nikki haley doesn't do either. >> and the fun is just beginning. it's just beginning. thank you so much. >> reporter: it's so fun. >> it's a little cold, but it's fun. >> thank you for your incredible

reporting. up next, president biden and vice president kamala harris are slamming the ex-president on an issue that is sure to be a major focus in the general election this year. abortion rights. we'll talk about that, next. abortion rights. we'll talk about that, next. ♪♪ cold water, on those stains? welp, only one way to find out... tide cleans better in cold than the leading bargain detergent in warm. ♪♪ cold water can't clean tough stains? i'd say that myth is- busted! i always wanted to say that! turn to cold, with tide. you know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stresses just melt away. i hear that. this bad boy can fix anything. yep, tough day at work, nice cruise will sort you right out. when i'm riding, i'm not even thinking about my painful cavity. well, you shouldn't ignore that. and every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills, i just hop on the bike, man. oh, come on, man, you got to pay your bills.

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justices because he intended for them to overturn roe. it is a decision he brags about, proud that women across our nation are suffering. proud that women have been robbed of a fundamental freedom proud that doctors could be thrown in prison for caring for their patients, that young women today have fewerer rights than their mothers and grandmothers? how dare he. >> vice president kamala la harris today in wisconsin marking what would be the 51st anniversary of the supreme court's landmark decision giving women the right to safe and legal abortion. and calling out donald trump for helping to overturn it. not only does the republican front runner take pride in dismantling roe v. wade, but the

gop isn't done trying to strip away a woman's right to health care access. it's a part of a push by the campaign to make abortion rights a major focus of the election. earlier today the president met with cabinet officials to discuss abortion rights and contraceptive access. the campaign also released a new ad highlighting the difficulty obtaining health care in an antiabortion state, even in an emergency. >> two years ago, i became pregnant with a baby i desperately wanted. during a routine ultrasound, i learned that the fetus would have a fatal condition and never survive. i had to flee my own state to receive treatment. i think donald trump bears ab incredible amount of responsibility for these restrictive lus. we need leaders that will protect our rights and not take them with. and that's joe biden and kamala harris.

>> joining our conversation is president and ceo of the planned parenthood fund, and a professor at georgetown law. welcome to you both. let's talk about that campaign putting abortion rights front and center in the 2024 election. how do you think that works? how do you think that's going to play out and be received by voters? >> well, we have seen that abortion has been front and center in people's minds, particularly as the supreme court has taken away a right that we would be celebrating 51 years of having today. and you heard the vice president and all of her clarity speak about this. and she is someone who is not new to this she is absolutely true to this, talking about the impact that the restrictions have had on patients who now have to travel out of state to get basic health care that they

need, patients who have now experienced pregnancy in a way that's made it more dangerous for them, providers who are terrified about making a a wrong call and have to call their lawyers before providing emergency care. you see the opposition double down and decide they want to actually sue the federal government for their right to let patients die rather than follow basic common sense emergency guidelines under the act. and i think this is what americans need to understand. this is what they are experiencing right now. that these abortion bans are unpopular and the fact that the administration is willing to draw the contrast and demonstrate what's possible is exactly the right move for going into 2024. >> pick up on was just said and play one of the loudest applause lines that the vice president got earlier today. take a listen. >> the let us all agree one does

not have to abandon their faith or deeply held believes to agree the government should not be telling her what to do with her body. if she chooses, she will consult her pastor, her priest, her rabbi, but not the government telling her what to do. >> i have to admit that sounded awfully republican in the sense that the government, the role of the government in decisions like this is a very powerful argument to make across the country. is this part of the reframing of the conversation around abortion in terms of your personal freedoms versus the role the

government now under a trump administration and certainly the decisions of this court would impose on a woman and dealing with such a personal choice? >> you're right. it's good to be back on with you. let's remember that 51 years ago, roe v. wade was a 7-2 decision. 5 of those 7 justices were republican apointed. the justice that wrote the opinion in roe was put on the court by richard nixon, so it is a reminder. when you think about planned parenthood vs. the case that supported and kept roe alive, those had who did so were also republican appointed. justice o'connor and kennedy, it's a part of a legacy that very much was keep your hands government off of our bodies and allow us to make independent

decisions. and even today, i think one of the reasons why we see such robust support for the ballot initiatives is that, yes, there are democrats that support them, but there are republicans that support them too. so many of these issues don't have is a democratic party or republican party those are fundamental, constitutional rights. fundamental human rights. and when you think about just where sol courts are and you think about where some state legislatures are, where they say if you violate our law, we're looking for the death penalty. in south carolina and louisiana, there are lawmakers that put forward legislation that is not passed by calls for the death penalty against women that would have a an abortion. and we have right now in texas horrors taking place where women have had to flee the state and the fifth circuit has shown it's not inclined to recognize federal law that is intended to protect individuals, including

those in labor who might be facing death. so these are really tragic times. i think the biden and harris administration is looking to make sure that people understand which side of these issues they are on. >> and it really is interesting given how michelle just sort of framed the then vs. the now of this debate. how it started, where republicans using a very libertarian argument because we were very libertarian in our nature when it comes to government interference. but then the now, which is what we see playing out. and it was interesting to me as we watched the pro life march late last week and into the weekend. happen here in washington and folks were saying what is this movement now? what does it mean? we know what you were trying to do for the last 50 years. in the 51st year, what's next? what do you think is next for this movement and how it will

play out? is it a state by state bat toll chaung the laws and to grind down a woman's right to choose in individual states or is there something ls going on? >> i think they have forecast their playbook fairly clearly and openly. in sol ways they are saying the loud parts out loud they have talked about a national ban. and every candidate, including nikki haley and donald trump, now we no longer have ron desantis, but each one of them has talked about the importance of a national ban and where they would stand with the right to life movement. so we need to be very, very cautious about what that could mean for what would happen in a state like colorado or new york or california or illinois. they are the traveling outside

of their own boundaries to get access. michelle talked clearly about the criminalization. the open conversations they are having about criminalization and we only look to ohio t the impact of miscarriage, knowing that a patient could experience miscarriage and go through all of the emotional and physiological trauma of not being able to carry a pregnancy to term if think desired and then have to be criminalized for her ability to process all that happened with her nurse and vuder. so i think that we need to be very clear that they have stated what their goal is, which is a national ban. we need to be very terrified about that. that's why when we look to the

incredible way in which the administration continues to show up by executive order or leading with their bully pulpit to talk about providers and patients and talk about the very critical impact that's happened with so many patients, that's going to make a huge difference going into this election cycle. >> i want to finish up on this point. the white house announced new initiatives about birs control. what's your thought about those nushtives and what does that say to you? >> well, these are critically important because what they shine a light on is the fact that dobbs was just the beginning. and justice thomas suggested that in his concurrence that there are other matters of privacy that the supreme court should involve itself in that legislatures should seek to dismantle. marriage equality, matters of contra sective access. it was notable the one area he didn't mention was interracial marriage, which implicates his

own personal life, but we should be deeply concerned about the other areas of reproductive health, rights and justice, not just abortion access. and other matters of constitutional concern as well. what's being enapproached upon and not just those matters that involve health and reproductive rights, but this is implicating first amendment rights and rights with regard to travel and implicating rights with regards to privacy. if we end on this note thinking about the woman who had a miscarriage, her toilet was busted up. police were searching for fetal remins. where are women supposed to miscare? these are really dangerous times when you think about it. that somehow somehow in a state the only place to miscare is in a hospital. that is a worrisome time for our nation. and it um police indicates so

much of our united states constitution that with should all be concerned about it. >> thank you for the conversation. really appreciate it. a quick break for us. up next, breaking news out of the pentagon. more strikes carried out today. a live report just ahead. arriedy a live report just ahead recali. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ moving forward with node- positive breast cancer

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the company goes to the first born audrey. the model train set is entrusted to todd. mr. marbles will receive recurring deliveries for all of his needs in perpetuity, thanks to autoship from chewy. i always loved that old man. what's it say about the summer house? yeah, the beach house. the summer residents goes to mr. marbles. plot twist. i'm sorry, what? doesn't make logistical sense? unbelievable. pets aren't just pets. they're more. you got a train set todd. save 35% off your first autoship order. at chewy. we have some breaking news to report from the middle east. the u.s. and uk forces are carrying out a second round of air strikes against targets in

yemen. the u.s. has been leading a coalition against the houthi militia in yemen, which has been attacking cargo ships in the red sea, a vital shipping route. let's bring in nbc news national security correspondent courtney kube at the pentagon. courtney, what can you tell us about this latest round of strikes? >> michael, details are literally just coming in to us now, including the fact that the strikes have just finished up, literally only moments ago. now, as you said, this is the second time that the u.s. and the british military have conducted these joint strikes against the houthi rebels in yemen. last time, january 11th, was a pretty large volley of strikes. more than 60 targets and more than 150 munitions, both precision-guided missiles and bombs were dropped on houthi targets that night. now, since then we have seen a number of additional strikes by the u.s. military specifically. so unilateral strikes. and that's what the military's been calling the more dynamic or even pre-emptive strikes.

what that means is they'll see a potential threat like missiles that are on rails and they will go in and they'll target that strike so that they can take out what they see as a potential imminent threat against those commercial ships that you mentioned in the red sea. and frankly, even a threat to military ships that have been patrolling through that area as well in recent weeks and even months. now, the strikes tonight are slightly different than those dynamic strikes. they're more like the ones we saw on january 11th because it's the coalition, the u.s. and the uk together, but also these were preplanned strikes. so they set out a number of targets and went after them. the goal here is to not only degrade the houthis' military capability so they can stop them from carrying out these strikes and threatening the commercial shipping but also to deter them from carrying out those kinds of attacks that have really had a real impact on commercial shipping throughout that region. we've seen a number of major companies reroute their ships all the way around southern africa to avoid that potentially

dangerous area where the houthis have been targeting with missiles, with one-way attack drones, with a number of different projectiles over the last several weeks. but i will say, michael, we've already heard from one statement from the houthis tonight and they remain defiant saying that they will continue to threaten those waterways despite the strikes tonight, michael. >> courtney, can you give us a quick update about the navy s.e.a.l.s that went missing during the mission on january 11th? >> yeah, this is a really tragic story. so we heard about these s.e.a.l.s. they were part -- i mean, we talk about the houthis here. they were part of a small team that was out in an inflaable boat on the evening of january 11th off the coast of somalia. they spotted -- the u.s. navy spotted a dow, or a small boat that was believed to have some sort of illegal weapons or illicit material on board. the small team of s.e.a.l.s went out to board that boat. it didn't have a flag. so when they started the boarding process, one of the

navy s.e.a.l.s went overboard. it was nighttime. the seas were pretty rough at the time. another one jumping in to save his buddy. they've been missing since then, and over the weekend the u.s. military, the sad distinction of declaring the two sailors deceased. and then just today we learned late this afternoon, we learned their names. they were both west coast-based s.e.a.l.s. one of them had about more than a decade in the navy. the other one had a little bit less time than that. but really tragic news. also not only the decision to declare them deceased but now the rescue mission that's been in place for about ten days now officially becoming a recovery mission, michael. so very tragic news out of the navy today. >> sad news. thank you very much, courtney kube. thank you for reporting. up next, we'll turn back to politics. why donald trump may really be running for president again. much more news straight ahead right here. we'll be back. ght ahead right here we'll be back. llable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment.

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ing. do you agree, should a president have total immunity even for things that cross the line? >> of course not. the amazing thing about that clip was he was dead serious. he wasn't even making one of his ridiculous jokes. he was dead serious. and that should get everyone, whether you're an extreme conservative or socialist liberal, everyone should be concerned with that type of mentality going into the white house. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in washington. i'm michael steele in for nicolle wallace. republican governor of new hampshire chris sununu there with a very important warning. total immunity is a threat to the country. where we believe in democracy and that no one is above the law. governor sununu was reacting to comments by the former president like this. >> you have to have guaranteed immunity for a president. otherwise a president's not going to be able to function. they're not going to move -- harry truman would not have done -- harry truman would not have done hiroshima, nagasaki, probably ended the war, probably, i think so. but he wouldn't have done it.

so many things wouldn't be done. the president has to have immunity. if they don't have immunity you're not going to have -- you're not going to have a presidency much. you're not going to have much of a country. >> so let's be clear. what trump is describing is leadership with no checks on those in power. but there in the united states -- but here in the united states we have a rule of law that applies to everyone. that's why four grand juries indicted the ex-president in four separate criminal cases. and he's got a few civil cases he's dealing with as well. all the while trump's 2024 presidential campaign is moving full steam ahead. the gop primary is now down to two candidates. and the two -- and the twice impeached, four times indicted ex-president is looking like he's all but secured the party's nomination. which means we're headed for a clash. a clash between a man who before voters cast their ballots could be criminally convicted and a political party accepting him with open arms despite the many

legal battles between now and november. and that is where we start this hour with former top official with the justice department and msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann. also joining us, former congressman from florida, msnbc political analyst david jolly, and with me here at the table senior opinion columnist for the "boston globe" and co-host of "the sisters-in-law" podcast kimberly atkins stohr. thank you all for joining us. so andrew, the man on the precipice of securing the party nomination for the gop is currently indicted in four different jurisdictions. and he wants complete and total absolute immunity. help us wrap our heads around what that says and what that can potentially mean to this country. >> you know, if he were just a defendant saying i want complete immunity, you would understand it because he's basically just saying what any defendant would say, which is i don't want to be

prosecuted. but the idea that he's saying it's because i used to be the president of the united states that i want immunity is the problem. and his argument about harry truman is completely nonsensical. we don't have presidential immunity for violating american criminal law. and harry truman had no problem doing his job and making very difficult decisions and deciding when to drop a bomb or not. and you may disagree with that, but it wasn't because of presidential immunity or the lack thereof. and nothing harry truman did violated american criminal law. so it is completely nonsensical. the courts are not trying to find that there is presidential immunity. either the d.c. circuit that we're waiting for or if the supreme court takes it. he's simply trying to make this a get out of jail free card and

essentially have the population, his base, vote that he should not be tried for his federal cases. that is what he wants to make the election about. and if he had his druthers he would want the courts to simply end the problems he is facing because of his own actions. but the courts are not going to be his way out. the political sphere may be his way out. but it won't be because the courts agree with him. >> so david, let's talk about that political sphere because that space is crazy as i don't know what. you've got a republican party that's all too happy to let donald trump win its party nomination and be its standard bearer on the ballot, which looks nearly certain. how does that work in terms of the politics of this when you get into a broader conversation with the country about who the next president should be? >> yeah, michael, i think this is really an incredible moment

because it's a glimpse inside donald trump's command of the movement and his constituency. he is saying publicly i can do anything i want, total immunity, a president has total immunity. consider how far that is from his perfect phone call defense. right? i understand that was the impeachment argument. but even in this jack smith case the perfect phone call defense is being used because they were saying in his defense that he was acting within the outer perimeters of the executive branch powers, that in tampering with the election or inciting january 6th all he was doing was exercising his executive function to communicate the nation's interest in free and fair elections. he was yelling fraud, right? he was making a substantive defense, even one that would likely fail in the courts, because it's not within the outer perimeter of the office. he has now leapt to you know, i wasn't doing anything legal, i was doing illegal things, but i'm allowed to, i get total immunity because the office should be beyond the reach of accountability. and consider how seamlessly,

this is the political piece, how seamlessly his movement has followed him in that leap. his movement now is going to agree with him. they're going to cheer for him. they're going to understand -- and i think worse even than that is donald trump is in the process of convincing himself with fidelity that actually, yes, the president should be immune from accountability, should have total immunity. and that then presents the danger. so what does it mean for our politics? this is going in november in a 50-50 race donald trump versus joe biden. if donald trump wins, he could -- we should expect him to take that ethos of total immunity into the office. that's the danger. and so to protect democracy we have to quiet those voices and quiet those votes in november and instead choose a president that will defend law and order and defend the constitution. >> kim, i'd like to play for you a little sound from trump's now former lawyer joe tacopina with my colleague reverend al

sharpton. take a listen. >> is it possible donald trump could end up convicted of one of these cases in your mind? >> oh, is it possible? absolutely. you have a jury of 12 who's going to ultimately decide this. jack smith is a federal prosecutor who i knew from his days in brooklyn. they're serious prosecutors. you can't say there's no way he'll get convicted or there's no way, you know, he'll be sentenced -- >> and the prosecutors that despite whatever political angle, you don't think would bring cases they didn't think there was some legal case -- >> i'm sure they believe in their cases. i do. i'm not going to subscribe to unethical conduct on behalf of prosecutors without seeing evidence. they believe in the case. it doesn't mean they're right, by the way, reverend. but they believe in their case. >> doesn't mean they're wrong, either, joe. >> does not either. >> is there a lane here where that would happen where trump is convicted before this election? >> it is. it is. and that could bring up the tough task of deciding, well, what does that mean? if he wins the election

politically. and legally. can a president serve in the white house while also convicted? i don't see any reason why, aside from the big problem with insurrection and the 14th amendment, why that. but we have never been here before. and that's sort of both legally and politically what donald trump is counting on. never mind this nonsensical claim that presidents have total immunity as congressman jolly pointed out, that's not even what his own lawyers are claiming. but what he is trying to do to protect himself politically is make that case to his core voters. the scariest thing in that clip of donald trump to me were the people in the audience who were applauding that. that's what he's banking on. he's testing out this message to galvanize his base. and if he wins the nomination, which he likely will, that is going to be the official line of the republican party, that donald trump is above the law. that's extremely dangerous, even if the courts do not agree. >> you know, david, i want to pick up on kim's point there

because we learned from the iowa caucuses that nearly 2/3 of republicans, that's a lot of folks, believe that donald trump is fit to hold office even if he's convicted. you have candidates running against him, and i put that in air quotes, stand on the stage, raise their hand and say they would support donald trump if he's convicted. that means a third of the party is not, though. not everyone's on board. i'm not convinced that's enough. i'd like to see more. i'd like to get your thoughts on that. because 2/3 of something is a lot. and folks worrying about that third, i don't know what that third can do. help me out. >> yeah, sure. what they can do is participate in the 6% of the country that will decide the presidency in november. but let's start with what it means for republicans. you and i ended up in a brief conversation last night about how this is different in '24 than it was in '16 and even '20. and around that i would suggest that this cycle, what we have

seen is that donald trump has fully tamed the republican party. in '16 even after getting the nomination you had the likes of the speaker of the house paul ryan, mitch mcconnell sxooz who said i'm just not there with my endorsement yet, even after he had secured the nomination. you had voting republicans, grassroots republicans who said i'm not there yet. what we've seen this cycle is in iowa people now believe that the previous election was rigged because donald trump tells them that. elected leaders who are also candidates like ron desantis and others drop out of the race and immediately now endorse donald trump. donald trump has tamed the republican party to now follow his direction, whatever it is he asks of them. and so what does that mean for november? for those 30% perhaps who say no, i'm not sure, some of those new hampshire voters tonight or tomorrow that will vote for nikki haley, what do they do? participate in the 6% to 8% of the voters in this nation that will decide the election, decide the presidency in november. we know it comes down to the

persuadable voters. not all independents. some soft disaffected republicans. democrats who have questions and independents, 6% to 8% of the country will decide this election. and to the question of conviction, a conviction could move those 6% to 8% very strongly in the direction of joe biden. it won't move republicans but it could move those persuadables. >> that's interesting, kim, we're still dealing with this intersection as david noted of the politics sort of driving this. and of course what andrew was talking about in terms of the legal. so i want to come to you with both. it sort of manifested itself today in the e. jean carroll case where the court was canceled because of illnesses that were reported and likely post poepd till wednesday. so the question boils down to this conflict that's going to

emerge at times in all of these cases between the movement of the legal process and the resistance to that movement by the political process. >> yeah. it's really interesting. so donald trump was complaining that he went to new york and he was ready to go but the court canceled. it was actually his attorneys who asked for that cancellation because one of them was under the weather. there was also a juror that was under the weather. e. jean carroll's attorneys said that they were ready to move forward. but it was actually trump's side that actually halted that. and i think you have -- you have seen judges in this case including judge kaplan in that case be very careful. they are running these cases as if the politics don't matter to them because they don't. it is what's going on in this courtroom. at the same time bringing trump in to testify, if he wasn't scheduled to testify up next, it probably would go on tomorrow if everyone was feeling well, but judge kaplan is probably aware of the optics of on the day of the new hampshire primary hauling trump in to testify in

new york. >> that's something trump would want. >> exactly. would be playing right into his cards. so i would expect it to continue on wednesday and then again move forward as if it's not an election year because that's not what this case is about. >> andrew, there are some big legal developments that we're waiting for right now. a decision on presidential immunity being one, a verdict in the civil fraud trial. when do you think we'll start to see those decisions come around? >> so it's anyone's guess in terms of the d.c. circuit. everyone's sort of thinking and i am thinking that it's any day now. i think that the result is not something people need to really worry about. i think they're not going to find presidential immunity. and by the way, just speaking to your political point, i think it would be good for journalists be asking every democrat and republican do they agree with donald trump's view and sort of play out the implications of

that as judge pan in the d.c. circuit did with donald trump's lawyers. with you saying that s.e.a.l. team 6 could assassinate a political opponent? would president biden -- are you saying he has that power? so anyway, we're waiting for that. it could be any day now. the thing to keep your eye out for is how much time does the d.c. circuit give donald trump to appeal that to the supreme court? and do they say basically we are by x date, five days, seven days, returning this to judge chutkan so she can get the d.c. trial going forward? because remember, there is a stay right now of that trial. there was supposed to be a march 4th trial that's clearly going to be delayed. at least four to five weeks because that's how long this appeal has taken. the earliest is probably mid april at this point that that trial could start. so i think that's the key thing that i'm keeping my eye out for,

is how much time are they going to allow him to appeal so they can move this case along. >> okay. so andrew, let's play that out, then. we get through that process. if trump is actually convicted in one of these cases and is also the presidential nominee, because that's going to happen during all this as well, how do you think that plays out? how does that work? >> well, you know, to the conversation that you were having with david and this sort of 2/3, 1/3, i think one of the reasons that donald trump is so desperately prying to put all of these trials off is because you cannot be sure that that 2/3 is so solid. right now donald trump is not having -- doesn't want to have his day in court, doesn't want to have to deal with facts in court. he wants to deal with spin and say this is a witch hunt and this is all bogus. but if there is a trial, it

remains to be seen whether it will be like the january 6th hearings, which really broke through in terms of changing people's minds and letting people -- not everyone, of course. and it won't be everyone. but to david's point, enough people who think you know what, i'm actually being confronted with facts. especially in the jack smith january 6th case. most of those witnesses are going to be former donald trump witnesses, people who are close to him in the administration testifying about what happened and what he did. so i think there really could be a needle that moves because of that trial. so that is the thing that we have to wait and see. so far nothing has broken through. gravity doesn't seem to hold with respect to donald trump. but it could be that that criminal case with facts that are adduced there change the dynamic in the political sphere,

not just in the legal sphere. >> so kim, is this donald trump's get out of jail free card, this whole idea of running for the presidency, assuming the presidency and once as president he can then unwind all of this? >> i think he probably believes that. i'm not sure donald trump has read the constitution fully, much less federalist paper 69 where alexander hamilton explains very clearly that presidents are able to be held accountable. maybe he can catch the musical. >> right. >> but i think that david is right. i think there is an element that he is convincing himself that once he gets back in office he will have this absolute power. he may think he can shut down the courts. i'm not sure what he believes. but certainly the presidency for him is a way to protect himself first and foremost. >> i was just about to launch into, you know, one of the songs from "hamilton." but i will spare y'all all of that. no one's going anywhere. so you know, you don't have to put the earmuffs in. when we return, as we mentioned, testimony was canceled today in

the e. jean carroll defamation case. but donald trump continues to attack her on social media. what happened behind the scenes, next. also ahead, the one and only steve kornacki live at the big board with a look at what to watch for tomorrow night. and what may be a real problem this election season. a robo call imitating president biden encouraging new hampshire voters not to vote. "deadline: white house" continues after a very quick break. house" continues after a very quick break.

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after a juror fell ill and trump lawyer alina habba said she was exposed to covid, the trial will now resume on wednesday morning, the day after the new hampshire primary. instead of testifying in court this morning the ex-president has been attacking e. jean carroll relentlessly, posting about her on truth social over 40 times. those posts are the kind of attacks carroll's lawyers plan to use against trump, writing to judge kaplan over the weekend that they will be using trump's continued defamatory remarks as evidence in that trial. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst and guru lisa rubin, who has been following this case for us. andrew, david and kim are all back as well. lisa, lisa, lisa. with the trial canceled today, do you really think we're going to see trump testify at all this week in light of new hampshire tomorrow? >> well, michael, the trial has now been scheduled to reconvene

on wednesday. to the extent the reason the trial was called off tomorrow is covid-related and not primarily about new hampshire, obviously we'll stay listening to see if that's pushed back even further. i didn't think that president trump would testify today. however, i saw something in court today that convinced me that he had actually every intention of testifying, and that was the presence of two lawyers, susan necklace and todd blanch, who are the president's -- i'm sorry, the former president's criminal defense lawyers in three of the four cases in which he's been indicted. mr. blanch represents him in the manhattan d.a.'s hush money case along with miss necklace. mr. blanch also represents him in both of the cases brought by jack smith's office. now, i've seen those two in court before. they came to hear michael cohen testify, for example, in the new york attorney general's civil fraud trial. they were also at the first carroll trial the day of opening statements. however, nothing was supposed to happen of consequence today other than former president

trump's testimony. and as those trials will potentially mirror, my guess is they were there because they wanted to hear their client testify and take the stand. i was not convinced it would happen before then but today really changed my mind, michael. >> lisa, one of the other things that did happen today was this morning at least was judge kaplan rejected trump's request for mistrial. could you explain what happened there? >> yeah, this is the second time that judge kaplan has rejected a request for mistrial. and michael, it all turns on some testimony that e. jean carroll gave about deleting death threats that were sent to her via social media or e-mail. alina habba has pounced on that to suggest that e. jean carroll as a defamation plaintiff had a duty to preserve those e-mails and electronic communications as a plaintiff in the case and having failed to turn them over during the discovery process she says she's entitled to a mistrial. i think she has both mischaracterized the evidence as well as potentially waived that

argument by not raising it sooner. certainly she had an opportunity to take testimony from miss carroll during the deposition phase. she could have explored what documents were preserved, what documents weren't, whether e. jean carroll understood at the time she conceived of the lawsuit what kinds of document preservation obligations she had. but today as before that motion went nowhere even though this time it was made formally and in writing, michael. >> so andrew, what about all of this e. jean carroll case does donald trump not get? we see him continue to defame miss carroll. now her lawyers are saying we're going to use some of his words against him in this trial. does that increase the amount of damages carroll gets? how does that impact what the judge sees and hears here in making his decision? >> two-part answer for you. the big picture is this is -- we

can just take the same conversation we were having before the break about things going on in the courts versus donald trump trying to have them go on just in the court of public opinion. that is what's going on in the e. jean carroll case. he is saying things to his base to say ignore this case, ignore what's going on in the courtroom, ignore that there's been a finding of sexual assault, ignore all of that. judge kaplan, the jury, everybody is in cahoots against me. i'm the true victim. even though a jury has said that the true victim is e. jean carroll. that is one sphere in the same way that he's saying there is fraud in the election, ignore that everyone else has said no, there isn't, including the courts. in terms of how it will play out in court, it is maybe a good strategy politically. it is a terrible strategy in terms of the court. almost in real time e. jean carroll's lawyers are putting

all of the evidence that we're talking about, all the constant criticism to this day that he has of e. jean carroll is going on in court. the jury is hearing that in the same way that the jury in the rudy giuliani case who was sued just last month for -- successfully sued for defamation heard rudy giuliani continue to defame those victims on the courthouse steps. so it's going to play out in terms -- we'll see how the jury responds. but the argument's going to be made by e. jean carroll when it comes particularly to punitive damages you should consider the fact that he is continuing to undertake this conduct and you should decide how much money is it going to take to get him to stop or think twice before he does that? so the number could go dramatically up based on this conduct. i suspect that he will, based on what lisa says, he will seek to

testify on wednesday. and just one note about something that judge kaplan did in a case just a couple months ago, which is the sam bankman-fried case, which is the judge was concerned that there the defendant was going to say things on the stand in front of the jury but it was not allowed. so he actually had sam bankman-fried testify outside the presence of the jury. and once the judge heard what he was planning on saying, he said no, you cannot say those things in front of the jury. it is conceivable that we'll see a repeat of that kind of dynamic where you have donald trump testifying but not in front of the jury, and in some ways that gives donald trump what he wants, which is a forum to get out his outlandish claims and to say it's the judge that prevented him from saying that to the jury. so that is a dynamic we could see happen it looks like wednesday at the earliest. >> so kim, andrew raises a

number of things that are very, very interesting in the context of this case. i want to read some of what carroll's lawyers wrote to judge kaplan over the weekend about trump potentially taking e stand. quote, as your honor isaware, we previously expressed our concern that the defendant would use his testimony in this case to turn the trial into a campai event, violating court orders about the scope of this trial or admissible evidence in service of a political agenda. do you think trump can be trusted to give relevant testimony, or is this just a platform for him to do his political thing? >> yeah. this is one of a million reasons why i wouldn't want to be his lawyer right now. i am not sure outside -- in this context that this is all just about trump trying to pair political strategy. i think there's a good dose of he can't help himself and he has never been held accountable for his insulting, attacking rhetoric. in fact, that has become part of

his brand. remember the pe jortive nicknames he gave to every one of his political rivals he was rewarded for that politically, and i think he uses that same attack on anyone he perceives as a rival. difference is in the political sphere you can get away with that. civilly you can't. his opponents can't bring defamation claims. e. jean carroll did not ask for this. so she is in a position that the more he does that it may help him, it may be his viscera or he thinks it helps him politically, but just as andrew pointed out it is killing him legally because it's almost like a cash register that keeps -- >> cha-ching. >> every time he says something in this case. and that can be the first really big bit of accountability. money. and so if that's where they hit him, that could be very damaging to him. >> mo money. i don't think he has enough. lisa rubin and andrew weissmann, thank you both for spending some time with us. david and kim, you've got to stick around with me. when we return, what to watch

for in tomorrow's new hampshire primary. steve kornacki joins us from the big board right after a short break. after a short break. (bridget) with thyroid eye disease i hid from the camera. and i wanted to hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d. was beyond help... but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepezza is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source not just the symptoms. in a clinical study more than 8 out of 10 patients taking tepezza had less eye bulging. tepezza is an infusion and may cause infusion reactions. tell your doctor right away if you experience high blood pressure, fast heartbeat, shortness of breath or muscle pain. before treatment, tell your doctor if you have diabetes,

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okay. let's just call it as it is. it wouldn't be the eve of the nbc's steve kornacki to take us through what we're watching for. we know that nikki haley, who finished iowa in third place last week, needs that major

boost in momentum at the polls tomorrow before the primary in her home state of south carolina next month. after all, she finally has her one-on-one fight with the ex-president, who continues to attack her and most recently confused her for nancy pelosi. joining us now from the big board, msnbc national political correspondent steve kornacki. david and kim are here as well. steve, take us through what we need to be focusing on. >> yeah, the polls certainly show haley is running from behind in new hampshire. 19 points in this morning's nbc 10/"boston globe"/suffolk tracking poll of the state. if she's going to poll an upset tomorrow night, and it would be a huge upset if she were able to win this thing tomorrow night, but if nikki haley's going to, a couple things to look for -- these are all the cities and towns in new hampshire. these are not counties. they do things a little different in new england. they don't report the votes by county. they report them by individual and city towns.

so we will be filling in individual cities and towns as they come in tomorrow night. a couple things to look for that will tell us if haley is actually pulling any kind of a surprise. i'll call it the 2016 results as a point of reference here, remembering that trump won the state by 20 points over his nearest competitor john kasich. but it was a very spread out republican vote. there was jeb bush, marco rubio, there was chris christie, there was ted cruz. there were a lot of different candidates. as you say, now it's one on one. if you're haley, first of all, look, this little portion right along the connecticut river, this was kasich's strongest area in the state. this was basically trump's worst area in the state. so this is somewhere lebanon, new hampshire, just to show you the result right there, kasich actually won it. haley needs to be running up a massive landslide here. even in defeat he probably will. hanover, where dartmouth college is, is immediately north of that. lime, orford, this whole area. even if she loses haley's winning it. the question is how big is she going to win that area? what really has to happen for

haley to have a chance, just tick through here, the three biggest cities in the state. we'll start with manchester. this is the largest city in the state. on paper this was an easy trump win obviously, he won it by 24 points, but if you look at the demographic mix, if you look at the history of manchester in these primaries, this is actually a city that could be pretty much a bellwether. haley needs to win it, not by a huge margin but if we start seeing returns coming in from manchester and it's prael close to even, a couple points one way or the other, that's a sign that haley is overperforming considerably. same is true in nashua, second largest city in the state. you see the 2016 result here. but in a one-on-one haley needs probably to be winning this, winning this by several points. nashua's an 8:00 p.m. poll close. much of the state is 7:00 p.m. nashua the biggest part -- biggest city in new hampshire to close at 8:00. the third largest city concord

the state capitol here, you see the results here from 2016, this is one where the mix means haley has to win this one big. we're talking high 50s, 60%, something like that out of concord. also true along the coast here in portsmouth. again, haley would need to be getting a massive, massive number here. a couple bellwethers we can just talk about bellwether towns as their returns come in. here's a good one right outside manchester. suburbs. goffstown. this is one where -- if the result tomorrow is matching the polls trump's winning goffstown comfortably. if haley's pulling a surprise and has a chance to win statewide, she's in contention to win a town like goffstown. it would be close but she'd be in contention. same would be true in londonderry. another good one we can keep an eye on as a bellwether. remember in new hampshire so much of the population and so much of the vote is really going to come from this southeast portion of the state. a lot of these border

communities and just north of these border communities here a lot of commuters, commuters into massachusetts, down to boston. so you've got some pretty high population towns here and a ton of the vote is really going to come out of this area. i'm giving you some of the bellwethers in that part of the state but there are some others we can also show you further. but again, the bottom line here is for haley three biggest cities, i think two of them are close to bellwethers. the third, she's got to be winning big. she's got to be winning big in a place like portsmouth, a place like kean in southwest new hampshire. the courier and ives corner of new hampshire as they call it. that's what she'd need to do if the results start coming in tomorrow night and you see something like that, you're seeing the makings of a very close race. if not you're seeing what the polls are showing now. >> wow. wow. steve, amazing stuff. you're going to be back with us during this hour tomorrow with a first look at the next -- the exit polls as they come out of new hampshire. we look forward to you doing your thing, man, at the big

board. steve kornacki, thank you so much, bro. >> you got it. >> up next, officials in new hampshire are investigating a robo call impersonating joe biden telling voters not to vote tomorrow. details on that and the very real concern that this is just the beginning of a much, much bigger problem. alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain!

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a fake robo call of president joe biden was going around new hampshire telling supporters of the president to not vote in tuesday's primary.

according to exclusive nbc news reporting, here's a little bit of that call. >> voting this tuesday only enables the republicans in their quest to elect donald trump again. your vote makes a difference in november, not this tuesday. >> now the new hampshire attorney general's office announced that they will investigate this in what they call an attempt at voter suppression, writing in a statement, "these messages appear to be an unlawful attempt to disrupt t new hampshire presidential primary election and to suppress new hampshire voters. new hampshire voters should disregard the content of this message entirely. while the president's name does not appear on tuesday's ballot supporters of biden launched a write-in effort as a way to marshal support. david and kim are back with us. kim, you and i were talking about this a little bit and the reality is a stark one right now with respect to ai. speak to the dangers that are out there lurking that can

really have an impact on this upcoming election. and this is just the tip of what we could potentially see. >> yeah, it really is terrifying. look, you are aware of the dirty tricks that can happen, voter suppression efforts, calls or leaflets that say it's a different date or they shouldn't go. but this is different. that is a voice that sounds like joe biden. and it is not. you are right. this is the tip of the iceberg. and the law, which moves slowly, has not in any way caught up with how to deal with ai technology. and in a time where misinformation is a terrible problem leading into this election and people in their silos, add ai misinformation to this. donald trump is already using it to claim that he didn't say what thousands of people saw him say. it's only going to get worse. and the law is so far behind, it's very hard to put the rules of the road down before this is already taking effect. >> so david, real quick to you, the reality is we've already

seen this, as kim noted, you had the republican party out with the first ai commercial late last year. how do you see the dangers here as kim noted? >> a whole new era of campaign strategy. look, that was a very sophisticated not just impersonation of joe biden but questions as to intent. was it to quiet the write-in campaign against dean phillips, who may be on the ballot where joe biden is is not, or was it to prevent soft ds and independents from actually turning out for nikki haley on the republican side? so it shows you the power of this. what i would suggest we really have to look for it and in down ballot races where the real scurrilous and scandalous consultants and architects do their craft. because consider those races. i mean, consider the commercials that go on the air when they're willing to put their names behind it. imagine behind the max of anonymity how they will deploy this in down ballot race where's

misinformation and 100 votes can really decide a critical congressional race or state legislative race. >> joining our conversation nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli. take us through what's going on here and what you are finding out. >> well, michael, this is obviously a major jump ball as we look at the democratic primary here tomorrow night, which suddenly may actually be more interesting than the republican primary, which seems to have somewhat fizzled out here. and so you have a situation where there was already concern about what the turnout was going to be on the democratic side given the fact that the incumbent democratic president is not on the ballot. well, in comes a grass roots effort on the part of what has become known as write in biden to gather signatures, to getter interest, generate real momentum behind joe biden. there's an effort to demonstrate support for him. they were feeling very strong as they were closing in on this primary that they were going to put up a big number for president biden. and then last night one of the organizers of this effort, as a

matter of fact, started getting these strange phone calls from people because her phone number was actually included in this robocall. so there is a real concern now that this is going to depress the turnout for president biden among those supporters who would have come out to hear him. that voice, it does sound just like the president's. it uses the term malarkey. if nothing speaks joe biden, what else does than the use of the word malarkey in this voice message? the other thing that was interesting here, michael, is the biden campaign initially would not comment for our story as we've been planning to break this news. they've been very hands off about the new hampshire primary because the president's not on the ballot, because of what the focus of the dnc has brngs is moving this to south carolina. but ultimately we did get a strong statement from julie chavez rodriguez, who is the campaign manager, saying the campaign was not only concerned about this but considering taking its own actions in addition to what the new hampshire attorney general's already going to take. because we're looking at the potential early start of a general election against donald trump, i think the campaign is

very concerned about not just the potential for disinformation, the use of ai, but the information space generally. i had one campaign adviser say frankly they are being smoked when it comes to the sharing of memes, social media and the like. so this is sort of an indication of what's to come and sort of the areas that are most concerning for the biden campaign as we head into this general election phase. >> real quick to you, kim, what can be done? given the short timeline that we have. i think this general election starts like on wednesday after new hampshire. what is available for congress or states to do to begin to reframe how we approach the ai problem? >> i think they need to investigate and use the existino investigate, and use the existing laws. laws that are against voter suppression. laws that are against giving false information. and try to utilize that to the best of their ability. given their information, if they're able to find out even

who is behind that. but i think after that, i don't know if there is time for legislation before the election. i think after, that all levels of government need to take this very seriously and look at the way that it is impacting our lives in so many ways. including electric security. >> david, given what we know about congress. this inability to even figure out how facebook works. what should we expect at the federal level on this issue going forward? >> i think you will see a deep investment by law enforcement agencies without the legislature to be able to identify where these calls originate from. it is very similar to the swatting calls. lot enforcement has not been able to keep up with the technology in that space so look for them to finally catch up with the technology, and when the first person is caught as kim said, using existing law. watch out, because that person is going to jail. >> mike, david, and ken. thank you so much for being with us.

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of your monday with us, the beat with ari melber starts right now. hey ari melber, what's up? >> what's up michael, i know you're keeping busy. in a minute or less, because you've already been working a long day. what's most important to watch for tomorrow? >> i think steve laid it out as the key parts of new hampshire where there's independent and democratic voters who decide to come out and support nikki. whether or not they really do, and does it make a difference? so i think it is still a slog though, i think it's going to be a slog. >> a slog, yeah, interesting, you know jack kennedy? i love you so muc a