manner of -- some of the voters in my district thought that perhaps i had been drinking. but believed it was me. on election day, people are coming up to me going, were you drinking when you called me lesson? i said, i did call you lesson. and then we found out. so, we did pass a law. we hadn't had a law before that. it is a crime in new hampshire to impersonate a candidate, pretend in a manner that would indeed pack the results of the election. that same day was the day of the phone jamming that occurred when republican party heard these folks from out of state to jam the folks from our headquarters that ended up going to the federal courts and executive director serving time in prison. republican party had to pass a couple hundred thousand dollars in fines. we have some experience. it was just shocking last night when we heard this was happening here in new hampshire. i have to tell you, i listened to that voice message.

my parents, i mean, they're pretty sophisticated. if they had gotten that, they would've believed it was the president calling. that has an impact on voters. i think it's been corrected in time incense that i've received two text messages from the right in biden folks saying, don't pay attention to that. it's not true. i've got to praise governor sununu for being on top of it. he actually did say that he believes that whoever did to this should be prosecuted to the full extent. it's good to see that we are united behind it and we look forward to finding out who it is and we hope they do it because we don't want this to go anywhere else. let this stop here, now, and not continue across the country. >> people think these things are funny or coffee or silly. they are not. they are deadly serious. more partly, they are dangerous. great, jennifer, thank you so much. we will have to leave it there. but the clock. our special coverage on the new hampshire primary is starting

right now. good evening, once again, i'm stephanie ruhle. it is now midnight on the east coast. and the first votes of the new hampshire gop primary are about to be cast. 64 years ago, the town of dixville notch, new hampshire, started holding elections at the stroke of midnight. meaning that they were among the first to vote in the country. that tradition continues right now as the sixth registered voters in dixville notch are casting their ballots. i wanna go to our campaign reporter, emma barnett. she is in dixville notch tonight where those votes are coming and. emma, it is the moment we have all been waiting for. what can you tell us? >> reporter: stephanie, it's so exciting. the anticipation is rising. i keep looking over my shoulder to count how many voters have gone so far. in the voting booth right now, we can see the second voter who is currently writing in his ballot. shortly, you are going to see

him. when is it tells you can sit. he's going to walk and put his ballot in the wooden box over here. it's going to shake the hand over there and then, the next letter is going to come in. this is really, really exciting. we are going to find out what the first six voters here in new hampshire are thanking and we will get back to a soon as we have some results. >> emma, thank you so much. now, i want to bring in our lead off panel for the hour, nbc correspondent, vaughn hillyard. he's also in new hampshire tonight. dave weigel, political reporter for settle for an endorsement, director of the university of new hampshire survey center. andrew, you are that new hampshire expert. does what we are seeing in darkesville not tell us anything? what are you watching for? >> doesn't really tell us about who can actually win the primary or who's going to be coming the next president. it does say something about the history of the new hampshire primary. the hoopla that goes on around the primary. some of the quirky events that occurred in the state over the decade in the new hampshire primary that has been first.

it's really part of the fabric of politics. it's always important to remember that politics isn't just that not symbols of policy and so forth. it's all of the other factors that go into the race and make it interesting. this is certainly one of them. >> tonight is also about the great traditions. bond, we all know that this is a very, very small sample size. tomorrow will be bigger. what are you watching for in new hampshire? >> just to the extent that donald trump dominates this republican primary here, stephanie. of course, there's a chance that nikki haley pulls us off. if she does, that means that there would have been a surge of independent unaffiliated voters showing up to take part in this process. frankly, we didn't see that happen in the iowa caucuses. there is much discussion over whether folks would come and change their party registration in an effort to try to stop donald trump from ascending to the nomination. we didn't see that happen. in 2022, in the midterm elections, there were conversations like that when i was covering it wyoming gop

primary when liz cheney was running against trump backed hageman. the questions over whether independents would come out in big numbers to support her and help her. not an update. the question here is, in a moment, in the 11th hour here, in which it comes down to the potential that donald trump, if he has a massive win here in new hampshire, could very well all that force nikki haley out of this race. is that going to be a defining enough circumstances for independents to come out in big numbers to try to stop him? if donald trump is able to walk away with the big wind, it only puts the pressure on nikki haley to step out of this race. we are looking at south carolina primary one month away. if you were to continue, those would be a very difficult few weeks ahead. one in which it is not just donald trump, but it is a donald trump backed by the likes of tim scott, ron desantis, the vague ramaswamy, doug burgum, and a republican party that are unified in wanting to direct direct the resources towards democrat joe biden instead of continue to

spend millions over what is likely going to be a donald trump nomination, eventually at least. >> dave, what are you focused on? i remember the iowa takeaway. trump, obviously, did well. evangelicals, white evangelicals, were huge voting bloc here in. that is not the case in new hampshire. >> it is not at all a typical year. it's less than a third of the republican electorate. you can see that. you can see the issues at play. thought said it pretty well. i would add that in iowa, turnout was comparable to 2012 when rick santorum nearly won the caucuses. it was up across iowa in counties where trump has converted democratic voters. looking from barack obama. it was down in places like des moines, like iowa city, like cedar rapids. you did not see these independents who were republicans eight years ago voting for mitt romney and build on the party because of donald trump. if you didn't see them come back. anecdotally, on the ground,

we've all been seeing, you are not seeing a surge of those voters towards nikki haley. you're seeing a little bit. you are seeing the kind who listen to liz cheney speak a few weeks ago. you are seeing a little bit of that. there's no evidence of a stampede of voters towards nikki haley, saying this is a great chance to stop donald trump, which is what she needs to absolutely overturn the polling, she needs to denominate or just like the right to the tune of 250,000 voters or so. knowing that that right now. >> andrew, what would have to happen for nikki haley to win new hampshire? to have this massive turnout? >> a miracle? a political miracle. certainly, it's really important to point out that no candidate writing either the republican or democratic primary new hampshire has ever won without winning the plurality of the parties registered votes. never happened. no one's ever won on the backs of the independents.

so, if nikki haley is able to pull this off, she will have to overcome donald trump's lead among registered republicans, which we've seen in our most recent poll, upwards of 65%. that means she would have to get not only more independents showing up then registered republicans, but you'd have to get 65 plus percent of those people. those are really, really hard bars for any candidate, regardless of the circumstances to people to overcome. nikki haley has, i don't know. she's really been someone who people are voting for as much as they are using her as the vessel to express their discussed with donald trump. i think it's going to be an incredible challenge for her to people to pull that off. not likely to happen. >> foreign, if independents don't show up and show out for nikki haley tomorrow, what does that say for the anecdotal, no labels movement out there. no labels likes to argue,

there's a huge appetite in this country for a third lane, a third voice. many seeing this nikki haley in new hampshire with independents to represent that. >> right. even the independents, that middle lane isn't all on the same page here. you know? i think a liz cheney wing of the party that is very separate and nikki haley wing of the party. all of us here -- >> you know what -- barn,, vanita trump you. we are getting results. emma, can you hear me? >> reporter: i can hear you. the votes are being counted. we have four for nikki haley so far. two more to go. standby. she's definitely one of the majority already. the next ballot is being opened. and? that's five for nikki haley. this is going to be six for six? feels like we're in a sport game. waiting for the results. that is all six voters here in

dixville notch have voted for nikki haley. you are going to see them right the results on the board over there. we are going to stand by while they are officially putting those on the board. she's gotten six out of the six votes here in dixville notch. they are writing them on the board. again, two of these voters were actually undeclared voters, which is something that i am definitely going to be keeping my eye on tomorrow. the undeclared voter is the key voting bloc for someone like nikki haley. not because undeclared voters get to vote go to the voting booth, choose whether they're going to take a republican or a democratic ballot and those voters who tend to be more independent minded, they are the ones -- if haley can pull this off, it's going to be because of those undeclared voters, stephanie. as you can see on the board there, haley, six, trump, zero. no one took a democratic ballot. notable, of course, that president joe biden is not on the ballot. it's someone to write in his

name, they are able to tomorrow. but no one took a democratic ballot. former president trump got zero votes. again, nikki haley getting six out of six voters here in dixville notch on this historic night. it is so exciting here. the crowd is starting to talk about the results back there. the media is gathering. it is officially primary season. it's officially voting day and more results are going to be coming in tomorrow night. we are going to know, once and for all, who won the new hampshire primary. stephanie? >> there you have it. primary day. it is official in new hampshire. six for six to nikki haley. bond, i think i'm going to keep that same question. how does the no labels universe read this kind of news? what are they going to be saying tonight? >> may say, stephanie, that i think that we're all getting to share this moment here together. this was the most successful tonight for anti trump republican since ted cruz won his home state of texas over donald trump back in 2016. so, there you have it.

>> before ted cruz then turned around and had endorsed donald trump, which he did in the last few days, despite all that happened between the two of them. >> accurate. to your question, stephanie -- >> what does this mean for that no labels bowed out there? saying, see, there is an appetite for the third lane in north america? granted, this was only six votes. >> right. that is the difficulty here. what does that middle look like? pulley continually suggest that folks are unhappy with donald trump and joe biden as their options. a third party ticket sounds great until you start placing names on it. guess what? you are going to have much different polling results if you put nikki haley on the ballot versus larry hogan on the ballot, versus liz cheney on the ballot. that is what i'm talking to voters not only iowa but in new hampshire, other places around the country. there are two different factions. even within the anti trump movement of the republican party. there is the nikki haley, sort

of, vein in which they believe that she is much more of an independent democrat moderate. and then you have liz cheney, who is just somebody who stands on principles. so, when you look at what does no labels take it could look like here, it is tough to come up with a circumstance in which there is a viable potential bipartisan ticket here, despite much of the country, including here in new hampshire, looking for an alternative that is donald trump or joe biden. >> all right, then. joe, biden -- welcome on the special coverage night. just as we officially kick off th new hampshire primary. that is going to -- i believe it here for now. but tomrow, i will be here with the all-star msnbc cast, rachel will be leadg coverage. we will be here all night. breaking down the rest of the primary results. startingt six pm eastern. i wl see you then. stick around. jen psaki picks things up with rachael metal. right after this.

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great leader in europe, viktor orban. he's the prime minister of hungary. he's a very great leader a, very strong men. some people don't like him because he's too strong. it's nice to have strong men running countries. >> greetings from new hampshire

where the republican front runner would like to talk about kitchen table issues like the strongman in charge of hungary, very obvious closing message there, and making american presidents in uniform criminal prosecution which will come in handy for trump. this is not your usual new hampshire primary eve. we are looking at that tomorrow. joining us now is the usual host of the nine pm hour. i know you are missing her already and the author of prequel, the fight against american fascism, a terrific book about world war ii era history. my friend and colleague, rachel knight. we're not gonna make you use your voice to much but thank you so much for talking with us this evening. so, rachel, let me start there. i have been saying tongue and cheek that this is his closing message, trump's closing message, talking about viktor orban, as he is campaigning a bit here in new hampshire. you said that authoritarians, you talked about them quite a bit. you've educated all of us on them. is this the kind of quote you need before a primary? >> first of all, jen, i

apologize for my boys. i am very grateful to have -- i'm trying to hold it together so that i can have my voice for tomorrow for the coverage. i'm excited to be part of that. that's why i sound like a mess right now. on the viktor orban thing, listen, i think there's a very simple reason that trump is making that the closing argument in what may be the last contesting primary. and it's that's what he is offering. i mean, this is the special recipe donald trump is not leading the republican party, leading the republican field of candidates because of his youthful vigor, or because of his, you know, his policy preferences, but because of his eloquence, right? none of that is going on what he's offering. it is what he inherently offers. and now, more and more explicitly offers, which is if you pick me, that will be the end of politics. and you won't have to deal with politics anymore, you won't have to deal with contested elections.

you won't have to deal with contests or divisions when it comes to power. you don't have a strongman leader. and it won't that be a lot that simpler. that's what he is offering. that strongman model is what the republican base is enthused about and that is something that sets him apart from every other republican candidates. and i think that we are naive to think that he is tricking people, and surprise, he's gonna act like a dictator. well, he's offering this strong leadership, the end of politics, the end of elections, the sidelining or domestic acting as ruth ben-ghiat says of the judiciary and congress. he will be a man in charge and he will get it done. that's what he is selling and that's why they're very concerned -- >> i think of him as a marathon -ing orator. he really has a different view on trump and his strengths. which, of the question that i sometimes think about and you know you talk about this a fair

amount, how did we get here? how did we get to this stage where you have this person who is such a control over the political party, but even beyond the politics of it, we that appeal of the strongman argument, this warship of dictators, it's so appealing to such a large swath of the country. >> i mean, i think there's ways -- first of all, we should be humble about it and recognize that there aren't many 250 year old democracies in the world. and democracies are hard. most of the world is governed under authoritarian governments. there is nothing magical about the american populist that makes us immune to the promises of strongman leadership. i mean, that's part of why i've done some of the history stop that i've done, like in prequel, talking about the lead up to world war ii, to talk about how susceptible americans were to the same kind of authoritarian messages that were working on the population in germany, and that we're working on the population in italy, and that we're working on the population in spain. i mean, i know it's a cliché to note it about hitler was

elected, right? i mean, mussolini didn't have to literally march on trial, but it was a figurative thing because he was installed as the heart of the government. so these messages -- excuse me, they have appeal. and there's ways that you can drive a populist towards them. you can denigrate the government. you can say that government itself is the problem. you can make it so the legislative branch never works and is seen as an object of ridicule, pity, and hostility rather than as one of our three branches of government. you can challenge the rule of law and say that judges are all biased against people like you and that the legal system doesn't work for people like us, and that we should denigrate the courts and the law and the legal system in a way that falls down along partisan, authoritarian lines. i mean, all of those things help. flirting with the kinds of conspiracy theories that make people look to mythical fantasies for solving their problems. instead of actual government

work. that helps. paramilitary violence, where you bring violence into the political sphere and people are too intimidated, normal people are intimidated to engage in normal political behavior. all of that helps. all of that sort of shrinks with the populace towards or therrien messaging, as the only solution, as the only thing that they want. >> but, i mean, that was dark, real, and honest, and authentic, just like you are about these issues. what are the other lessons from history about what might work, or what is effective pushback? i mean, when we talked earlier in the show about the protests in germany, what works? what can be done in this country to push back on this movement? >> i mean, that history works, i think, on a couple of different levels. it's interesting to me watching those protests and germany this weekend, a couple of things about that struck me. one is the reason those huge protests, 1 million and have people turned out in germany, a crowd so big in some places,

the crowds were so much larger than the marches, and the police had to shut them down for security reasons. the reason people came out in germany is because of reporting from a secret meeting where the far-right party in germany, which is pulling very strongly in germany right now, had secretly discussed mass deportations of migrants in germany, millions of people all deported all at once. and it was exposed in the sort of bombshell investigative reporting. but, you know, i mean, that is what trump and stephen miller are offering openly. and people are not out in the streets for it because it wasn't bombshell reporting, they said that's what they wanted to do. but that policy that the far-right party is working on in germany is exactly what trump and stephen miller are talking about doing here as soon as trump is put back in office. i mean, they are literally talking about putting millions of people in camps in the united states, a revelation

like that in germany got germans out by the hundreds of thousands, more than 1 million, over the weekend, saying this is nazi stuff. we can never see this come back in a civilized war. whereas if we just absorb, that's something that trump is going to do. it operates that way. there's also what they're asking for. they're asking for the german courts to ban afd, ban that party as an anti democratic party. and germany does have some history with that in the post war years, 1952, they banned parties that wanted to use the democratic process to come back in and dismantle democracy. we haven't done it since then but they're ready to do it now with this iteration of the far-right. and we're obviously concerned with that, the essential insurrectionist being back on the ballot in multiple states. >> very much running for office. history repeats itself, as we often reminds us. but also, there's a kind of history, life of things happening around the world that are important for us to also watch. now, finally, we have to let

you rest your voice, rachel. you can talk about this all night, i know that. but what are you doing for yourself? do we need to send you chamomile, lemon, ginger we -- will deliver it to you. everybody needs you to lead the coverage tomorrow night. >> i mean, i just have a thing that everybody else has, you know. i had covid for the first time in october. and then it took me like a long time to get over it. and now, i've just got this cold that it seems like everybody, at least on the east coast, has. and i'm a terrible patient. i got my daytime goo in my nighttime do, and i'm just sipping tea, and hopefully get better. but everybody out there has a secret sauce, if anybody has, that i'll take it. in the meantime just try to rest. >> you heard her, if you have a secret sauce for her, we're gonna collect it, give it to her, so she can be here leading the coverage tomorrow night. rachel maddow, thank you as always. i hope you feel better and take care of yourself tonight. looking forward to see you for tomorrow night. still ahead, at this point in the 2016 race, donald trump

still doesn't have a single congressional endorsement. but in this election, republicans are rushing to lend him support. what happened? why are they falling in line so quickly this time around? we'll talk about that. later, a fake joe biden robocall targeting new hampshire voters ahead of tomorrow's primary. are we prepared for other deepfakes coming this november? we'll talk about that as well, coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i'm a photographer. and when i'm driving,

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trump is superior to the current incumbent, joe biden. that is clear.

i signed a pledge to support the republican nominee, and i will honor that pledge. it's my endorsement because we can't go back to the old republican guard of yesteryear, a re-packaged form of corporatist that nikki haley represents. i have heard and even written many endorsement statements. and let me tell you, that is not a ringing one. he seemed a little bit under duress there for a moment. that of course was wrong desantis, begrudgingly, i think it's fair to say, endorsing trump, after dropping out of the race for president this weekend. it's just the latest example of how republicans are pretty much lining up behind trump ahead of the new hampshire primary. right now, he is on stage with a trove of leading republicans who are endorsing him. and it's all a stark example of how donald trump has come to dominate the republican over the last eight years. when trump ran for president in 2016, remember, not a single republican member of the house

or senate or any of the sitting republican governors endorsed him before the new hampshire primary, not a single one. it wasn't until after new hampshire, in late february in 2016, when trump finally got his first endorsement from a sitting member of congress. and that sitting member was none other than new york republican congressman chris collins, who was the first sitting member to endorse trump. now, chris collins, of course, would later leave congress and get indicted and then convicted of insider trading. trump pardoned chris collins during his first month in office. that was his first endorsed, it feels fitting. the second one to endorse trump in 2016, another guy, this guy, congressman duncan hunter. congressman hunter was also forced to resign from congress after being charged and later convicted of stealing campaign funds. that's quite a track record there for the first two endorsements of his presidential campaign. donald trump also pardoned duncan hunter during his final days in office. i think there is a pattern that

we're kind of staying here. before trump became the nominee, over 12 sitting members of the house have endorsed trump's candidacy, a six of whom were on their way to becoming convicted felons. that's what they all had in common. only one sitting senator, one endorsed trump during that time. remember jeff sessions, that guy has been paying for that mistake ever since pretty much. a lot has happened since 2016. i mean, donald trump has been impeached twice, tried to overturn a legitimate election, stopped an insurrection, praised dictators over and over again, and claimed he wants to be a dictator himself. but despite all of that, somehow, there seems to be an even greater willingness to look the other way. this time, republicans are rushing, elbowing each other to endorse donald trump as soon as possible. more than half of republicans in the house or senate have already endorsed trump. the leaders of the party have called them a presumptive nominee. remember, there is a primary tomorrow. former presidential contender

tim scott became the latest high-profile senator to endorse trump on friday. and in just, just a few minutes ago, he spoke at a rally, i just mentioned earlier, with him in new hampshire. now, with ron desantis endorsing trump, trump now has the support of 11 sitting republican governors. south carolina congresswoman nancy mace who just two years ago was fending off a trump endorsed primary challenger just to endorse trump today ahead of the states primary. she doesn't seem to remember that part from a couple of years ago. just over the last week, republicans have started to fall in line behind trump at a breakneck speed. what does that mean for this race and for the republican party ahead of tomorrow's primary? this all feels so inevitable with everybody lining up. joining me now to break that down, explain it, tells us what it all means, john martin, senior political columnist for politico. he was just here with me in new hampshire for a couple of days. thank you for being here with us tonight. so -- >> thanks, jen. >> it's great to see you. let me start with this outline because we haven't forgot, and

you've been covering it, since 2016, republicans didn't exactly coalesce around donald trump. i think it's fair to say. after he won the nomination, there were holdouts even then. >> it's true. >> why is this stuff happening so much faster now? >> politicians are responding to the marketplace of their electorate. and their voters want more donald trump. and so, they are in fact responding to that. it's a classic example of the leaders deferring to their electorate. i mean, they're not leading. they're basically following what they perceive, understandably so, to be the preference of their voters. and that's really the thing of it. jen, you know what's funny? the first statewide official to endorse trump in 2016 was also a governor and his name was henry mcmaster -- i'm sorry, lieutenant governor,

i should say, his name was henry mcmaster, of south carolina, he was the lieutenant governor. in the payback for endorsing trump, on the first day, jen, he was elevated to governor when president trump nominated the governor of south carolina, someone whose name was nikki haley to be the ambassador for the united nations. speaking of, full circle trump endorsement from 2016, yeah, one of those is still playing out today because of the reason why trump appointed her to the u.n. wasn't because they had a relationship, jen. she obviously came out for rubio in the south carolina primary in 2016. he appointed her to elevate mcmaster to be the governor of south carolina as a reward for him for being one of the first people in the country and the first statewide republican official to endorse him in 2016 because to your point, there was so dam few people in the party at that point who would dare to neck out for this celebrity casino magnate. >> i mean, a lot has changed.

he's done a lot since then -- >> yes! >> a lot of this has changed. i think the question that is tricky and you may have a view on this, i bet you do -- >> yes, i might. >> what's motivating? there's political survivor, right? that's a motivator. there is fear if they don't endorse him which i think is a big motivator. i mean, ron desantis in that video, he looked, again, under duress, like he was in a hostage-like situation -- >> endorse him on paper -- >> exactly. it felt almost a.i. generated. but what is motivating the majority of them? is it political survival? is it fear, is it a combination? what's it about? >> oh, i think for the folks who are facing the voters every two, or four years, or six years, i think it's almost entirely trying to stare on the right side of their voters. if you talk to these people privately, a lot of them at least, not the true believers, but you know, a lot of them came politically before trump.

jen, they will say, what do you want me to do? my voters like him. and i always tell them, one republican, actually, former governor, today, this very same thing. i said, what desantis would have been honest about if he's gone that video -- like, what do you want me to do, folks? i want a future in this party. i'm only 44 years all. and the voters still like trump. i got a before trump. that's really it. and to your point, there is definitely a bullying element because obviously, if you don't get behind him, he gives you a hard time. he attacks you. he will incite his supporters to attack you online, or even worse, prank call your office. there is definitely intimidation factor there, no question about it. >> all right, jonathan, we have talked about this kind of off line behind the scenes. let me put you on the spot here for a bit. there's a primary tomorrow. what does nikki haley, if she

wins, obviously, that's a surprise, but what does she have to get within, what's the margin she has to get within in order to justify to her donors, to her supporters, to stand, stay in the race? >> i think if she comes within single digits, jen, in a new hampshire tomorrow, i think she can justify going to south carolina and trying to win in her homestead. that will be a hell of a race, a month long south carolina showed, armageddon between trump and nikki haley. you know, a sight to see, probably bush mccain 2000 look like wings. look, if she loses by 16, 17 points, i think it's harder for her to rationalize staying. at that point, i wondered, would she be better off saying, look, i was the last person standing in this race. nobody of thought i could do it. but here i was i was the only person left. and i gave him a go. you know, i think it, if you

are losing by 17 points, that is sort of the case you make. and also, i think if you sue for peace now, jen, you still have an outside shot of being vp. it's harder for her to get vp, or even be in the mix, if you don't win south carolina. >> you don't want it until you want it, i guess. there's an interesting deadline coming up because trump has told donors reportedly that they have until february 1st to decide. and if the heat shots off the money, that seems very tricky for her. we will see. jonathan martin, thank you for joining me tonight. great to see you in new hampshire while you are here at the last couple of days. you too. coming up, a fake biden robocall is encouraging democrats to skip the polls in tomorrow's new hampshire primary. what can the federal government be doing to combat this as we head to the 2024 election. i know just the person to talk to. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪

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for every single meal of their life. it's amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer's dog is just our way to help people take care of them. ♪ the day, just a day before the new hampshire primary, the new hampshire attorney generals office announced that it's investigating what appears to be an unlawful attempt at voter suppression. yesterday, several new hampshire residents got a robocall reported to be from president biden. it wasn't. the white house has confirmed that the call was a fake. if you had received it, would you be able to tell? >> what a bunch of malarkey. you know the value of voting democratic when our votes

count. it's important that you save your vote for the november election. we will need your help in electing democrats up and down -- voting this tuesday only enables the republicans in their quest to elect donald trump again. your vote makes a difference in november, not this tuesday. >> malarkey sounds a lot like joe biden, take it for me. that was in the beginning of that call. we have no idea who's behind these fake robocalls although they're likely intention, misleading voters and hurting president biden. it seems pretty clear we do not yet know for sure how this artificial version of biden's voice was made. although, disinformation experts tell nbc news that it was almost certainly created with some form of artificial intelligence. but we do know that that fake content like this is getting more realistic and easier to make all the time. it's improving the technology of it. a little over that we go, the news outlet media i published dio that claims longtime trump advisor calling for the

assassination of democratic congressman jerry nadler and eric swalwell. i should say that nbc news has not been able to independently verify this audio. but it does really sound like roger stone. but stone claims the audio is fake. and because of how easy it is to make realistic seeming fake content like this right now, it's very difficult to figure out what the truth is here and people can use that to their advantage on both sides. but today's news about these fake biden robocalls in new hampshire, we are seeing how fake content like this could mess with primaries, it could mess with a general election. but how much more difficult could it get to tell fact from fiction by november? joining me now is chris curbs, former director of cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, and co-chair of the aspirin statute u.s. cyber security working group. thank you for joining us. i can't think of anyone better to talk about this and explain it. help us understand the basics here. how sophisticated you would have to be with computers to make fake audio like that, the

one we just played of those biden robocalls that we are seeing and hearing here in new hampshire? >> unfortunately, not particularly sophisticated at all. in fact, it doesn't require much more than some of the publicly open source large language models that can be used to create text to voice, or even text to video and you really don't need much of a sample of whoever you are trying to mimic. you can get a voice print off of about 30 seconds worth of tape. and obviously, with president biden, there is much, much more than that. there is more of that in you and me. so it's not a complicated feat right now, unfortunately. >> anyone can make one which is a thing that feels -- one of the things that feels so alarming to me. as we look back to 2016, which we've been talking about a bit in this show, it's just what the threats are and what we are talking about, what we should be talking about. so, are they or nation states

like china, russia, those who have intervened in our elections in the past, is this a tactic and a tool that you think they are developing, that we should be watching more closely, talking more about? >> there is no question that they are testing and exploring the range of capabilities, and the conversations i have with those in the national security community, they're absolutely concerned about state actors pulling a.i. into their broader information activities. and whether that is, you know, technical, hacking, cyber security threats, or the broader information warfare that we are seeing increasingly part of not just our elections, but i would suspect over the several elections that are happening in 24 and then in 25 as well. we will see more and more of these a.i. enabled vectors, threat vectors emerge. >> there's obviously a number of experts like yourself in the

federal government. i am a two-parter here. what would you like to see them doing? but also, do you have any concern about, maybe, the lack of understanding or knowledge broadly within congress about the threat of this? we saw the threat of social media back in 2016, for example. >> yeah, well, there are a number of different pieces of legislation that have been used particularly in the senate to address a.i. as it may impact our elections. in fact, there is a bill introduced by senators klobuchar, ali, coons, and collins that would address this specific risk of mimicking a political candidate. it would give them a couple of different options, including removal of the content, as well as damages. of course, that is just a piece of legislation introduced and it will take quite some time to get that into place. there is also the federal communications commission which has a couple of different mechanisms they could use, particularly if it is seen as a defrauding voters, and as well

as the fbi has several different, several different paths they can follow. but i think the real key here is similar to a number of the messages that we pushed out in the 2020 election, and that is, you know, if you ever have a question about information here, go to the trusted source. don't listen to someone on twitter, x, whatever, or a phone call you get. go to the source, the election official, or the candidate themselves, and verify the information that you've heard or read, or whatever. >> you know, on the flip side of this -- this is very good advice and i think a lot of people are looking for exactly that. on the flip side, though, of the fake content problem is this problem of plausible deniability. you know, for example, there is this audio media i release, i just mentioned this in the top, reportedly roger stone's denial and the back and forth. it gives people the impression

that things are true. how do we grapple with that? >> well, bobby chesnee, the dean of the university of texas law school, and another colleague, coined the term, the liars dividend. and that's where there is this diffused information environment where you can't really tell what is true. this is where the bad actors really thrive. and i think unfortunately, we are well into that space where the information environment has really lost that touchstone of truth. and it is hard to believe what you read or hear. and when you add a eye and you say, you know what? that sounds like me but it's not me, somebody else, somebody must of copied it. this goes to, i think it's important for candidates and campaigns right now to do whatever they can to really print and certify the video they use, the audio they use, so that it can't be mimicked. or if it is, they can push back and say, no, this is what i said, that's not what i said.

in president biden's executive order on artificial intelligence, it really does go to that water marking and the mechanisms that folks can use to take ownership of their own likeness and what they may say, or do, or appear as. >> chris krebs, thank you so much. it's such an important topic. i think we should be talking a lot about this between now and november, these robocalls, they're just a reminder. thank you so much for joining me. one more story ahead here tonight that we are looking forward to talking about. it shows just how much of a jump start new hampshire residents like to get on the rest of the nation when it comes to voting. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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starting at midnight, polls

for the 2024 presidential primary will officially open in dixville notch, new hampshire, a tradition dating back to the 19 50s presidential election. my colleague stephanie ruhle will be live as the votes of up

to six, that's right, six registered are counted. msnbc's special coverage will continue tomorrow. at four pm eastern, i will be back hosting another two hour special live from new hampshire. and at six pm eastern, rachel maddow will have had lots of t and echinacea, angela back in her chair alongside a dream team of msnbc host, steve kornacki, of course at the big board. where else will he be? at midnight, i will be back, hopefully with some news on which republicans at the top of the ticket, republicans in the great state of new hampshire and choosing to be their nominee. lots to look forward to tomorrow. that does it for me tonight. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. hello, lawrence. >> hello, jen. i have to ask you, you spent the weekend in new hampshire. >> i did. >> and i have to say, the final new hampshire weekend before the primary has always been my very favorite thing, the most fun in politics, until this year. this was the first time in decades where i did not bother to go up there. >> s