upside or the downside risk is pretty immense and i think she's going to feel the walls closing in on her quickly when she realizes there's no real path. but at the same time there may be money that could keep her floating out there and she may not care about her future in the party or realize she has a future in the party and think this is more important than any future and that would be surprising because she has not run a campaign that would indicate that to this point. as you were discussing with eugene, i believe she ran a campaign hoping she would be there to pick up the pieces if she fell apart. it's a little too late. >> she's running until she's not. we'll see if that changes. political analyst brendan buck, thank you for joining us this morning. thanks all of you for getting up "way too early with us" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> now you've all heard the chatter among the political class. they're falling all over

themselves saying this race is over. [ screaming ] >> i have news for all of them, new hampshire is first in the nation. it is not the last in the nation. [ cheering ] >> his race is far from over. there are dozens of states left to go. >> nikki haley vowing to stay in the race, despite a double digit loss to donald trump in new hampshire, after winning the iowa caucuses last week, trump beat haley by just over 11 points in the granite state. president biden, meanwhile, is hitting the campaign trail after cruising to victory in new hampshire without even being on the ballot. play for you portions of his passionate speech focused on the

contrasts between himself and the republican frontrunner. it comes as new general election polling out of pennsylvania shows the incumbent president leading trump in the key battleground state. >> there's the trend going on in pennsylvania, not just with joe biden over the last two polls, willie, we've also seen it with fetterman, his numbers going way up in pennsylvania. people that know this race say pennsylvania is now looking like his strongest state, and he is looking strong there. wisconsin following and so they will be focusing on michigan a good bit to get those numbers back up as well. by the way, if he wins those three states the election is over. there's no way trump gets to 270. but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. willie, i was glad to see nikki haley stay in last night. there's so many people that have done this halfway measures and

been weak. they pretty much assigned themselves to be nothing but donald trump's lap dogs for the rest of their political career. for nikki haley there's only one way through this. there's -- i mean there's light way down there at the end of the tunnel and the way you do it is you win and you just keep at it, keep going, and maybe you don't win outright, but you win a war of attrition because this candidate she's running against, donald trump, more untethered from reality than ever and let's face it, you know, it's very sad. i saw it in my parents and nikki haley saw it in her parents. it's just, you know, it's just nature. he's losing -- he's losing more than one or two steps. he gets confused up there. there's no reason why nikki haley shouldn't stay in this race, and again, possibly win a war of attrition, and find

herself after all of these trials and all of the chaos, find herself as a republican nominee this summer. that said, donald trump is freaking out. >> he's threatening her. >> he had a meltdown last night. he threatened her. again, more reason to stay in the race because again, he's more detached and more radical than ever. and also, the biden campaign trying to pretend she's not there. like, they are saying the general election has begun. forget what happened last night. don't listen to what nikki haley does. why? well, it's very obvious. they want to run against the crazy guy. they don't want to run against -- look at that split screen. who do you think -- who on this planet of extreme magas think joe biden wants to run against the woman on the right?

nobody. nobody. republicans know donald trump is the only person on that screen that joe biden's going to beat. they know that, willie. that's what makes this so fascinating. will they be too stupid to vote that way in the upcoming contest? i think they will! >> that's been her argument, and we heard it in her closing argument. we were in new hampshire the last couple days, guys, we're going to lose if you nominate donald trump. don't take my word for it. look at the polling. i beat joe biden by double digits. donald trump is losing or within the margin of error with joe biden. now, last night donald trump did win by a 11 points. it was a smaller margin than some of that tracking that we saw in the week leading up to it. 11 points is 11 points. it's a double-digit win in new hampshire. donald trump got that. if you look inside the number he can't win an independent voter.

he dominates the republican party. 85% of the people who voted for him came out and said joe biden did not win the election. his propaganda, his lies have taken hold with that segment of the electorate. but the guy cannot win in independent voter. that's what you're going to hear for a month. if nikki haley does stay in and said she would, we have ever reason to believe her, she has a month to run in her home state where there aren't a lot of independents going to show up. it's going to be a heavily republican electorate down there. it's a tough road for her, even in her home state. her case is, this guy is nuts. watch him perform. watch his speech last night. i think joe and mika, you might agree it was the most ungracious speech in the history of politics. criticizing nikki haley, going after her dress she was wearing on and on. just completely humiliating the man standing behind him, particularly tim scott, who nikki haley appointed to his senate seat. donald trump drew him into the

insults. this is who he is. this is who he's going to be. she says i win, he loses against joe biden. you have to think this through. it's an uphill climb, of course, as we saw last night and we'll see in south carolina. >> and my god, who is tim scott? who is tim scott? the guy that nikki haley appointed to the senate, he's supporting a guy right now who defended nazis in charlottesville, he's defending a guy that supports a replacement theory, he's defending and supporting a guy, happily, happily, easily the most racist president in our lifetime. it just goes without saying. he's inspired racism across this country. go on social media and see what his supporters are saying. >> we want to show you trump's

meltdown of a speech last night, but along with joe, willie, me, we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department elise jordan is with us this morning, and in new hampshire, nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. so let's go straight to donald trump. as the final result in the new hampshire primary was closer than some expected -- >> supposed to be like a 20-point blowout according to tracking polls. >> i think trump was mad but then nikki haley came out pretty early in the night and said that she was marching on with her campaign and trump delivered a venomous victory speech after learning that haley planned to stay in the race, despite her loss to trump. his wild appearance coming amid another day of angry binge posts on social media. >> not well. >> who the hell was the imposter that went up on the stage before

and like claimed a victory? she did very poorly. we won new hampshire three times now. three. three. we win it every time. we win the primary, we win the generals. this is not your typical victory speech, but let's not have somebody take a victory when she had a very bad night. i find in life you can't let people get away with bull [ bleep ]. you can't do that. when i watched her in a fancy dress, probably wasn't so fancy, come up, i said what is she doing some we won. did you ever think she appointed you, tim? think of it. you're the senator of her state. he be endorsed me. you must really hate her. >> it's a shame.

>> i just love you. >> that's why he's a great politician. >> you have the now very unpopular governor of this state, this guy, he's got to be on something. i've never seen anybody with energy. he's like hopscotch. we have beaten biden, you could almost say, who can't? who the hell can't? the man can't put two sentences together. just a note to nikki, she's not going to win. but if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes. i could tell you five reasons why already. not big reasons. a little stuff she doesn't want to talk about. i don't get too angry, i get even. >> oh. that was kind of a little threat right there. >> yeah. >> that's going to be the choice for nikki haley. >> just hear we have donald trump mocking chris sununu who made it clear yesterday and has

made it clear throughout this campaign he is not a man to be mocked. he's on fox news yesterday saying that donald trump had gotten too old, he was almost 80 and the fox news host chimed in -- >> he's 77. >> to which chris sununu said yeah. almost 80. i'll tell you what we'll do, we'll go over math later and then talked about all of his senior moments. they were shouting geriatric from the crowd yesterday at nikki haley's event. this is what's freaking donald trump out. he's being exposed. i'm reading from "the hill," despite what trump claimed that sununu is very unpopular, he has a 63% approval rating compared to donald trump's 42% approval rating in new hampshire and as chris sununu said, i've never lost an election.

you have. you think, mika, and i agree, she should take chris sununu to south carolina. >> everywhere she goes. >> everywhere she goes. >> i think you know, everybody has a different kind of point where they feel that they're pushing things too far. i think that nikki haley is, you know, a very strong, southern woman, and, you know, at the same time there might be some, you know, breaks in her brain where she thinks i can't go that far. chris sununu is showing her yes, you can. when you're speaking the truth about someone who had sex with a porn star and took the money for his campaign, start there. someone who defamed and raped a woman, start right there. stole documents and admits to it and says they're his, start right there. foreign policy go after him and let's talk about the threat that he poses to our democracy. i think that he can show her that it's actually easy once you push through that. republicans have kind of like

these brakes they put on in their brain where they're to afraid to go at donald trump. if she wants this campaign to continue, i don't think she has any other choice but to go in 100% after him. >> there's one way out, that is by winning. that is by going after donald trump and just telling the truth. as mika said, it's the truth to say a judge in new york, after a jury said she was -- she -- donald trump was libel -- >> instead of saying i'm not following that. >> for sexually abusing her, the judge said what he did was rape. call rape rape. and then yeah, he funneled money to pay off a porn star a couple of weeks before his election, and my god, if a congressman or a senator or a governor or anybody had done that without

reporting that, they would be in jail. i know. i knew members of congress that got put in jail for going golfing in ireland and coming back and reading a speech on the floor. so please, the double standards are really, really crazy. john heilemann, you know, this idea that this election is over, nikki haley -- i know that's what the biden campaign wants because they desperately want to match up with donald trump. >> i would be careful what you wish for. >> donald trump wants. the fact is, let's compare what people were saying about nikki haley at the beginning of the week and what they were saying about nikki haley at the end of the week. i mean, there was a lot of growth just in those three or four days. she ended strong. now she has a month to do that, to go around south carolina where she was governor for six years, to go to all the people she knows there and again, she's

got a month, a month, while trump is going crazy, she can work the ground. by the way, mika and i met her when she was a state legislator running for governor. nobody, i mean nobody, thought she was going to win. nobody. and when mika and i left that first debate that we moderated, we said, nikki haley is going to win. and she did. she beat a lot of big, powerful men that were supposed to humiliate her, and anything is possible. she's got a month. what's your takeaway from new hampshire and what does she need to do moving forward? >> well, first, i think you guys put your finger on an important thing. the number of people over the weekend on the republican side who i talked to for the niece we aired yesterday who said some version of, watching her last weekend who said some version of, if the nikki haley we're

seeing this weekend had come here six months ago, if this had been the nikki haley we had seen this would be a different election. it wasn't that she -- that they thought she revolutionized her performance. she's a cautious politician. always been cautious and calculating. that does not work in new hampshire. i would say it doesn't work anywhere anymore in the modern age. the spontaneity, the sense of being loose and connecting with people is a thing that not only works in places like iowa and new hampshire but translates over television and on digital. you can't seem like you're kind of pathologically cautious, especially when running against donald trump. what we saw with nikki haley this growth, the growth towards on nayty, not just taking the gloves off going after donald trump, but being loser and human on the campaign trail. you could see it almost day to day over the weekend. it wasn't as radical or transformative as what happened with hillary clinton in 2008,

but it was pretty striking and i will say having been up at her event last nate in concord, it was the best i've ever seen her. in her speech, her consolation, victory speech, i don't know what you want to call that speech, the i'm saying in the race speech, she was poised, confident, at ease. part of the reason trump went so crazy was not just that she didn't immediately bow down and collapse before him and say dear leader trump, you've beaten me i will be your slave, i think he looked at her and said, that's a problem, you know. a confident secure -- >> younger. >> at ease, younger woman on that stage presenting the impanel she was presenting, looking as good, mine this in every way, politically, her presentation, all the stuff that trump would fixate and focus on, he's looking at her and caused the freakout. she's on a trajectory towards getting better.

he wants people to kiss the ring and that infuriates him when it doesn't happen. look, he won 75% of the republicans up here. she won two-thirds almost of independent voters. think about the composition of the party in south carolina. she's going to be playing a waiting game. if you have this election, even if she's getting better the party if south carolina is a maga version of this party and trump is going to be stronger there. something has to happen. she's probably going to have the money to stay in this race because of the koch brothers who want her to stay in as of now, money is not going to force her out. she has the time and the connection to the state. something else is going to have to happen in addition to her getting better. trump is going to have a falter in some way and she's going to be waiting around for that to happen. given that it's donald trump, isn't a terrible bet, not a crazy thing to want to stay in and see what happens over that month. the month as you know is a lifetime, a lifetime in politics. >> and, in fact, her campaign is

already talking about super tuesday where they see more opportunity with independent voters in michigan and other states. a couple things from that speech before we get to steve kornacki that have to be pointed out. donald trump said he won new hampshire three times. he got smoked by joe biden in 2020 in new hampshire and lost narrowly to hillary clinton in 2016 in new hampshire. that's important to remember. >> yeah. >> he asked who can't beat joe biden? the answer is him, of course. you lost in 2020. all the innuendo about nikki haley rumor, stuff is going to come out, see what he has there. criticizing her apparel. i won't get into that. seemed like a nice dress. finally he said we can't let people get away with b.s. a whole bunch of prosecutors agree with that when it comes to donald trump. a jury here in new york agrees with that as well. so it's important to stop sometimes and just point out all the lies that flow from his mouth. let's go to political correspondent steve kornacki at the big board.

steve, how did donald trump do it and where are some of the areas that he ought to be concerned with moving forward? >> he did it by winning republican voters. that's the short answer. he won republican voters by 55 points over nikki haley. what went wrong for haley in terms of not getting this within single digits or position to have a shot to win twoiz things. first of all in the population centers of the state, we saw this in iowa, the voters she tends to appeal to, voters with high incomes and higher concentration of college degrees, moderate voters. in nashua, across the border is a perfect example, this was supposed to be haley country, it has the voters i'm talking about and she didn't win nash shah wa, she needed to win by 10 points. we saw this in iowa when you get away from population centers and to areas that are small,

individually but big collectively, and it is becoming the backbone of the republican party, especially since donald trump came on the scene nearly a decade ago now, we're talking about small towns and rural areas, we're talking about places with lower median north texas, places with lower college attainment, nikki haley did nothing in iowa with places like that. there were a quarter of the counties in the state where she got single digits and that trend absolutely continued in new hampshire and showed no signs of changing. a good example, we'll go to the massachusetts border, a town, fitchburg mass, south of here, 51-point win for trump over haley here. again, this is like in iowa, like a performance for her in a county that is similar to what she struggled in iowa. it adds up to trump winning by double digits. if we go to the exit poll it puts it in stark relief. you are not going to find another state like this. district of columbia is the only

thing i can think of where the electorate is going to resemble something like this. 50-50 essentially. republican and nonrepublican. look among republicans, 25% for nikki haley. you're not winning primaries if you're getting 25% of the republican vote and not going to come close to the republican nomination if you're getting 25% of the vote. where haley was able to do better and keep this thing to the low double digits independent voters. made up more than 40% of the electorate. she did win them by 22 points. that's a good margin for her. that is not by far the best margin we've seen in independents in the new hampshire primary. the biggest margin was 42, john mccain in 2000. john mccain went to south carolina, as this race will go to south carolina and in south carolina, george w. bush was able to say, john mccain is winning this thing or is competitive on the backs of

nonrepublicans, and he was able to turn that republican electorate in south carolina heavily toward him, towards bush. trump certainly, you saw him last night, among the things he said, he seemed to be setting up a similar dynamic and he's got a stronger argument to the core republican base than bush or really any other republican i think have had because this is a 73-point -- more than a 70-point swing from trump winning by 49 among republicans to nikki haley winning by 22 among independents. that's a 71-point swing. that is by far the biggest swing between winners of those two groups that we've ever seen in a new hampshire republican primary. simply, if you look ahead at what's coming on this calendar, i can pull it on the screen right here, you know, you have nevada, the rules are haley is in a primary with no delegates, trump in the caucus that has the delegates. trump will get the delegates out of nevada. go to south carolina, just mentioned all the issues, it's

her home state but the issues on those demographics that haley is going to have in south carolina are profound. the key is once we're out of these initial states rules change and in many of these states the rules have been changed at the behest of the trump campaign which has a strong influence over the state republican parties. they've always been this way. you win a congressional district by a single vote and get every delegate in the district. win a statewide vote by one point you win the state's delegate pool. so trump got about a third of the vote in south carolina in 2016. he swept all 50 delegates. he could do the same based on what we're seeing right now. you go to michigan, it's split into two parts right here. there's two days, 16 and 39 delegates. these will be given out proportionally. haley could get a chunk of these 16. the 39 are essentially winner take all. it's a two-person race. in most states that vote super tuesday the rule is basically if

you get 50% plus one, you get all the congressional district delegates. if you get 50% plus one you get the statewide delegates. the a two-person race that means win. trump getting 51 and haley 49 he will take all statewide. you look, michigan, go down to a march 5th. it's a 50% rule in alabama, in arkansas. california statewide. 50% plus one, closed primary, you win. trump's at 66% in the latest poll in california. get all 169 there. you know, north carolina's proportional. haley could have an opportunity there. texas 50%. win the district all the votes. 50% win the statewide all the votes. haley could do well in vermont i could see, but this is a recipe looming on the 5th of march for what the republican process is designed to do to get a nominee early. >> yeah. wow. >> all right. steve kornacki.

>> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. it is -- i will just say again what a night. i will say again, it's very early. so we have the next real contest that matters a month from now and, willie, that's in south carolina. i just want to say that, you know, steve showed us in two charts the problem facing the republican party. they elect a guy that gets 75% of the votes in the republican party. and loses and only gets about 35% of independent votes. so as steve said, you can't win a republican primary if your opponent is getting 75%. the other side of that is, you can't win in a general election if you can't get 40% of independent voters. we're seeing that in places like

pennsylvania where donald trump is getting smoked and is going to lose. so this has been -- we've talked about this since 2016 and still the conundrum. also, you, again, i can't say this enough, donald trump is getting about 50% of the vote in iowa. he's getting about 50% of the vote in new hampshire. he's running as basically a glorified incumbent. everything on his side. everything on his side. this guy should be getting 80%, 90% of the vote. if anybody thinks that barack obama, if barack obama were running, as a democrat this year, if he could run again as a democrat this year, those numbers would be asking, he's going to get 92% or 98% of the vote. donald trump is so weak and enfeebled as a politician compared to barack obama.

and the fact that a glorified incumbent is only getting 54% of the vote and everybody is freaking out and calling him like a king maker, is laughable. this guy, willie, this guy has so many problems going into the general election. he is so weak. even in his own party. one out of four voters in some states, one out of three voters in other states are saying, they'll never vote for him. that is a weak, weak enfeeble general election candidate. >> and yet we heard again last night the head of the rnc saying it's clear that people want donald trump. we need to unite around him. two more republican senators including john cornyn of texas come out after the results last night say it's clear the people have spoken. we have to rally behind donald trump. you have all those men on the

stage behind donald trump last night again. we should say, the american people have not spoken. the people of iowa, 56,000 or so of them, 160,000 last night in new hampshire, just over 200,000 republicans have spoken. as you say, just clearing donald trump 50% in both places. so despite that second place finish in new hampshire last night, nikki haley, as we say, insists she can still beat donald trump, while he cannot beat other candidates. >> with donald trump, republicans have lost almost every competitive he election. we lost the senate, we lost the house, we lost the white house, we lost in 2018, we lost in 2020, and we lost in 2022. the worst kept secret in politics is how badly the democrats want to run against donald trump.

they know trump is the only republican in the country who joe biden can defeat. >> elise, it's not really a secret. the biden campaign is saying out loud, donald trump is the nominee. let's have the general election. nikki haley says on the campaign trail, paraphrasing a little bit, don't come crying to me when you lose in november. i'm telling you i can beat joe biden. donald trump cannot. >> it's clear the party elites are not rigging the process given the candidate doing the best is one who would lose to joe biden possibly, although i think it still could be a close race. you look at the steep climb that nikki haley has going into south carolina. it's about a month. she has to make up about 30 points with donald trump. she has never lost an election there. she's won tough battles and always underestimated. but you look at the fault of the republican challengers to donald trump to this point, they've spent about 1% of their war

chest to actually attack donald trump, and that's about $250 million that desantis and haley spent collectively. haley, this weekend, started to attack donald trump and in an effective way attacking his age is a winning argument. voters question his age. they question his stability. when he's mistaking her for nancy pelosi it's a great thing for her. i would just run that on auto repeat in ads. is it going to be enough? the next 30 days, is she going to do what it takes when it comes to attacking donald trump? >> yeah. there's no doubt that the results of iowa and new hampshire show some bright red warning signs for donald trump heading into a general election. in terms of the republican primary process he did win by 11 points. nikki haley is not going to find more favorable electorate any time soon than she did in new hampshire last night. she lost by double digits. she's vowing to get in and we've been going through the reasons why you would. she will have the money and fund-raisers slated for this

week in new york city. she has won races in south carolina before. she trails badly in the polls there. ron desantis was insisting he would stay in until super tuesday. the morning of the day he dropped out. you're in until you're not. republicans are talking some pull haley may pull the plug to avoid the humiliating defeat which seems likely in south carolina unless there's a black swan event that really changes things. so we'll have to see about that. but in terms of when she said about the democrats you're right. the white house last night and the campaign made moves and shifted two senior advisors, we'll get into it later in the show, to wilmington. they are ready and declaring today the general election is on and a binary choice because they're convinced the more voters see that it's trump and biden they'll set aside whatever misgivings about biden and won't vote for trump. that is the race they want. >> nikki haley does have money as elise says and can keep going if she wants to.

they're talking about super tuesday as a destination for their campaign. we'll see if she tlastz long. it is -- lasts that long. it's extraordinary to have a two-term governor go home to run a primary with support of only one member of the delegation. all the senators, members of the house, nancy mace, tim scott, going out and supporting donald trump, even the sitting governor right now in the state of south carolina supporting donald trump. it's an odd thing to say, but she's got a tough battle on her home turf. >> i think the sitting governor was one of the people she beat as maybe he was secretary of state or attorney general when she was a lonely state legislator. she also beat a man who was lieutenant governor. this is -- you know what you call this, nikki haley, i'm serious, you call this tuesday. this is what happens. like, on tuesdays in south carolina, she goes in to elections on tuesdays and a bunch of men are supposed to

beat her, and so far, she's undefeated down there and i will say, anything can happen in a month and just also say on the biden side, man, things have changed in a couple weeks. i'm not exactly sure what it is, but they got jen o'malley dillon going over to the campaign and looks like mike donilon is going over to the campaign a guy who is biden's brain, who, you know, is -- has a mind meld of joe biden. those are two people that helped him win before. you look at, again, their rapid response, you look at how people are feeling inside the white house, how they're feeling in wilmington, we talk to campaigns everyday, i can tell you something there is a sea change over the past couple weeks. it's like they said okay, we're dealing with israel, dealing

with ukraine, dealing china, i mean, taking up all of their time and boom, said okay, time to get in the ring and man, they have gotten in the ring and you just look at the social media presence and they're there punching, punching nonstop. >> so still ahead on "morning joe," a significant contrast in campaign messages while donald trump is out on the trail praising dictators and autocrats, joe biden is talking about protecting women's rights and health and democracy as a whole. we'll get into that next on "morning joe."

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democracy? are you ready to protect our freedoms? are you ready to win this election some let's get this done. talk to your families and friends. organize your community. register to vote. get people to the polls. let's remember who we are. we are the united states of america. there's nothing, nothing beyond our capacity when we do it together. >> that's part of president biden's message in a fiery campaign speech yesterday in virginia. man, he went there on every front, but that was -- that was -- that was really emphasizing not just protecting democracy, but protecting women's rights that have been taken away from them by donald

trump who brags about it. >> so joe biden yesterday looked. presidential, strong, measured. everything that donald trump didn't look like. just by existing he creates that contrast because of who he is and what everybody knows about him. but he also has a lot to work with. when you take away a right that women have had for 50 years and our daughters and our sisters and your wives out there now are afraid to be pregnant and afraid to have pregnancy complications because of what donald trump has done, i think it changes the game and general election and joe biden and yes, kamala harris, are in a great position to use that to shake americans into understanding that we have to protect democracy, not just them or joe biden, every person

in america is responsible for preserving not just how precious this democracy is, but our rights and health and everything we have worked for and making the case yesterday in virginia. >> it's going to be a compelling argument throughout this entire campaign. you compare that to what we saw with donald trump last night, melting down, even in victory, and that scene with tim scott and trump saying oh, you must really hate her. she appointed you. you're from her state. >> right. >> you must really hate her. i mean humiliating tim scott publicly, what was your take on that? >> well, two things about this. the first on joe biden, i had lunch the other day with a very significant democratic friend of the president biden and a big donor and bundler in biden's world who said that, you know,

he had had a discussion with biden toward the end of last year which he said there is a different joe biden when it comes to being on the campaign trail. there is a joe biden not to criticize -- this person was not criticizing biden's performance as president, but the eye of the tiger, he needed to come into the new year at battle stations and really be on and this person said, you know, look at biden so far this year. look ator time he's done anything on camera and in public in january, things that that have been campaign related there's a change in how much more fired up joe biden is. that's something worth noting. this has been, after the first of the year, we've gotten a little bit of a new -- campaign joe out there. when it comes to trump and tim scott, it feels like it should be an object lesson to any republican, all the republicans, we saw them, j.d. vance and

elise staff fannic who are trying to get on trump's ticket and want to be trump's running mate, what we've seen in a million aspects of trump's life, those who bow down and scrape before donald trump, the tim scott, he was obsessed with nikki haley in his victory speech, ungracious and unhinged, that didn't surprise me, but that moment when he turned to tim scott and basically looked at a guy who had kind of prose straighted himself in front of trump, abandoned nikki haley, a woman who kind of made his political career possible, turned around and endorses trump, standing up on the night trump is against nikki haley and all he wants to do is quietly -- his presence on the stage is enough and trump turns and just humiliates him and makes him feel so obviously uncomfortable to me it's an object lesson for every republican. this is what you're going to get if you make a personal or

political sacrifice for donald trump. he will at some point turn around and say thank you very much and now let me make a fool of you. let me put you in a position where you are humiliated on national television. i don't think it's restricted to tim scott. we've seen it over and over again and we're going to see it into the future. every republican take note, this is what you get for being nice to donald trump, being loyal to donald trump, sacrificing for donald trump. >> deeply pathetic moment. to sit there and smile through that and quickly scramble and think of something, i love you, don't wait her. >> it's going to be ten months. get ready. >> let's talk about the speech from the president, talking about reproductive rights, obviously, one of the core, if not the central issue that they're going to lean in to for the general. >> no question. they're going to outline their case in the coming days. basically as much as they are going to make a positive argument for what joe biden has done on the economy and other issues, biden aides tell me this

election is going to come down to two things, the backdrop first is abortion rights. of course abortion such a motivator at the polls in 2022, it was again last year, every reason to believe it will this year. it could perhaps put a state like south carolina on the map as a battleground. secondly simply the threat that donald trump poses to people's rights, democracy itself, to the rule of law. biden's famous saying is don't compare me to the all mighty, compare me to the alternative. he will compare himself to the alternative every chance he gets. the contrast with donald trump. in a race that's more or less two incumbents usually when a president is running for re-election it's a referendum on that election, now it's a choice election. i will say the other thing that happened in that speech, at least for now, is a sign of concern for democrats. president biden was interrupted by my count by about 15 times by protesters upset about his handling of the situation in gaza. coordinated every few minutes a

different protester got up and interrupted him. he acknowledged it the first couple times. for the moment, the problem that biden has with his base that's the issue. they feel good about independent and swing voters. they're going to break away from trump to biden. biden has to get his base out. >> can he thread the needle not repulsing progressives he needed but winning the swing voters to keep coming back. is he strong enough on the border to get those voters back is really the question, and look at all the different issues at play and he's just got to keep those independents at the same time as those progressives. are they really going to stay on board or do they go third party. >> or stay home is part of the concern. >> on to south carolina. if i know you you're going to make a stop in nevada first. do i know you?

>> well, um, you know, there's no -- as donald trump announced he's already won that thing and you think it's a rigged deal, you know, he's got the caucus in his pocket. what possible reason, willie, what possible reason would there be to go to the great state of nevada. i've never been a person who was ever attracted to the temptations of las vegas. never a thing i indujds in before, but maybe i will give it a try this month. >> in bed by 9:00. we'll see you soon. thanks so much. coming up next here sweden is one step closer to nato membership. turkey finally approving the bid to join the alliance after delay of nearly two years. now, only hungary, and its prime minister viktor or ban stand in the way. we'll talk to retired admiral james stavridis when "morning joe" comes right back. ral james stavridis when "morning joe" comes right back.

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live picture of the united states capitol. sun still not quite up. israel and hamas appear to be getting closer to striking a new deal for the release of hostages. sources with knowledge of the discussions tell reuters both sides have agreed in principle an exchange of israeli hostages for palestinian prisoners can take place during a month long cease-fire but the plan is being held up by differences over how to bring a pmanent end to the war. this comes as tensions continue to rise across the middle east. late last night the united states launched another strike against houthi military sites in yemen, destroying two anti-ship missiles the pentagon says posed an imminent threat. joining us former supreme allied commander of nato, retired navy admiral james stavridis, chief international analyst for nbc news. good to see you. let's talk about what's going on in the red sea right now which is american carrier ships and fighter jets are attacking houthi positions that they say

are going after cargo ships in the sea and targeting american interests as well. do you worry about where this goes if the houthis and the iranian-backed militias continue to escalate, what the united states will have to do in return? >> it's the right question to be asking. i would say that three things to bear in mind. number one, this is not just american interests. if we allow this to continue, you're going to see fuel prices rise, the global economy start to choke. it's a very bad fact set for the global economy. secondly, the houthis appear to be determined to continue these strikes and so in response, i think the administration is doing exactly the right thing which is you're showing it right here on this graphic, going after the surgical instruments that are being used to strike the ships, the missile

launchers, the radars, the command and control, the fuel, the small boat, and frankly, at the end of the day, we can do that very effectively. the real message is to tehran. here we get to your point. i'm somewhat concerned, but i think it's a one in five chance that iran really takes on the u.s. and really gets fired up behind the houthis. another way to put it, the iranians will fight until the last houthi but they're not going to be putting iranian armed forceness harm's way. >> -- forces in harm's way. >> you have american bases in iraq being targeted going after whatever it is, an irritation, teal injuries being inicted on these. what is the goal of iran here? what does it want here? >> a good way to think about it is, take a map of the ancient persian empire and overlay it on the middle east. what they want to do is continue to press forward, perpetuate

their brand of islam, shia, and finally create as much disturbance in the global economy as they can, all for political benefit and, by the way, they don't mind those rising oil prices coming at us. >> let's talk about the other headline about this potential deal for a cease-fire in exchange for hostages. you know, reuters reports there's still some snags. it's not done yet. we've had close to deals before that have fallen apart. what's your read? do you think that both the israeli and hamas would go for something like this? >> i do. i think there's motivation on both sides to get more of these hostages out and palestinian prisoners out. we can probably find some trade space in there, jonathan, but secondly, at the end of the day, the israelis are going to continue to go after that tunnel system and the hamas leadership. the hostages can be set off to

one side. let's hope we can get a breakthrough. >> so, admiral, i'm going to ask you, ask you a question, but i ask the question knowing that we're probably on the same side on this one, but if your home kept getting broken into by teenagers and you kept figuring out after you called the cops and they got sent to jail that your neighbors across the street were paying teenagers to break into your house, how long would you keep worrying about the teenagers instead of walking across the street and doing the -- to your neighbor what you should do to your neighbor and get him or her arrested? of course the question is, how much longer are we going to put up with this b.s. from iran? how much longer? we've been doing it since 1979. does iran want a fight? i don't want a war.

as much as i don't want a war with iran, they want one less. because iran would be over in about a week or two. if the united states military decided to destroy their oil fields, destroy their bases, destroy their infrastructure, you know what, i say a week or two, i'm being modest. it would be a couple of days. how much longer do we let iran pay people to kill americans and try to disrupt our trade? >> the short answer is not very much longer at all. so we're still punching the teenagers in the nose, but you're right, the next step is to pound on the door across the street. that door is in tehran and i'll close with this, i would go after the iranian navy. go back to the late 1980s. we sank about a third of the iranian navy when they tried to

mine the strait of hormuz. maybe it's time to pound on that door. >> james stavridis, thank you so much for being on this morning. we'll talk to you soon. >> i like how he thinks. >> donald trump tops nikki haley in new hampshire as the nomination race now moves to south carolina. can haley win the state that elected her governor twice? plus, senator tim kaine of virginia will join us to talk about the push to protect reproductive health and freedom and how the issue will play into this year's elections. "morning joe" is coming right back. s elections. "morning joe" is coming right back i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need.

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>> this is not donald trump in 2016 guys. if he's off the teleprompter he can barely keep a cogent thought. that's a fact. >> you've seen him in person. >> i've worked with him closely. this is not donald trump -- >> he didn't have a prompter

last night. >> this guy is nearly 80 years old. >> he's 77. >> that's nearly 80. we'll do math later. but look, he -- he's -- >> you are so snarky. >> this is not 2016 anymore. he's not on his fastball. >> new hampshire governor chris sununu making the case against donald trump. sununu has been campaigning with nikki haley across the state. what i was talking about earlier he's doing it joyfully but making it clear points. >> doing it joyfully but not putting up with anything. i have to say, i like the fact that yesterday nikki haley started throwing fast balls pretty hard at people who had been bowing down to donald trump on certain cable news channels. >> yeah. i mean like moss to flame, donald trump wins one race in iowa and the party starts to run up and support him. cable news networks that dabbled with being critical and turned the page, raced toward him. after new hampshire we've had a

couple more republican senators overnight come out to endorse donald trump. you have the head of the rnc saying this is over, we need to unite around donald trump. as you see there, just people feeling the need, i guess, to run interference for him constantly, despite the fact that we watch donald trump perform. believe your own eyes when you watch him at one of these rallies or at his speech last night. >> elise jordan, who else is pretending that nikki haley is not there, the biden white house. because they desperately want a rematch with donald trump because they know they'll beat him. >> but it's good for the biden white house if nikki haley stays in the race as long as possible. if she forces donald trump to stay out on the stump and respond, and he keeps giving these performances that have you lacking his mental faculties, lacking his age, frankly, that's

something she knows he's vulnerable on, biden and trump both have the age vulnerability and as long as she stays in the race it's good for joe biden. >> the only one that seems to be affected by his age is donald trump because of the pressure he's under, nine legal cases against him and faces, i don't know, the rest of his life in prison. it's a little stressful. >> 91 right now. 91 charges against him. >> every single day he's dealing with lawyers. every single day he's dealing with challenges and threats to his freedom because of what some would argue he has done to create that situation. crimes that he has allegedly committed. >> some would argue. >> not some would argue. he stole nuclear secrets. >> that he admits to. >> he stole a secret war plans against iran. he stole so many documents, and

he has people that work for him at mar-a-lago saying he tried to obstruct justice. 91 counts. any one of those counts puts him in jail probably for life, and there is a case in washington, d.c., that, you know, i don't think judge chutkan or the d.c. circuit or the supreme court is going to allow donald trump to go into the four corners and play out the clock and stall this until after the election. >> yeah. and if you look at any of those counts and you think about the consequences that's enough to cause a panic attack. honestly for anybody. >> especially if you're old. still with us and joining the conversation we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, former u.s. senator and now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill, and claire, and mike, i want you to look at donald trump here. this was a victory speech, okay. just take a look at this.

guys melts down. watch. >> who the hell was the imposter that went up on the stage before and like claimed a victory? he did poorly. >> we won new hampshire three times now. three. we win it every time. we win the primary, we win the general. this is not your typical victory speech but let's not have somebody take a victory when she had a very bad night. i find in life you can't let people get away with bull [ bleep ]. you just can't do that. when i watched her in the fancy dress that probably wasn't so fancy, i said, what is she doing? we won. did you ever think she actually appointed you, tim? think of it. appointed. you're the senator of her state. you endorsed me. you must really hate her.

no. it's -- a shame. >> oh. >> i just love you. >> oh, that's -- that's why he's a great politician. you have the very -- now very unpopular of this state. this guy, he's got to be on something. i've never seen anybody with energy. he's like hopscotch. we have beaten biden, you could almost say, who can't? who the hell can't? the man can't put two sentences together. just a little note to nikki, she's not going to win, but if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes. i could tell you five reasons why already. not big reasons. a little stuff that she doesn't want to talk about. i don't get too angry, i get even. >> i mean -- >> really -- >> so really threat her. >> talk about confession and projection. by the way, who can't beat joe

biden? i'll tell you who can't beat joe biden. donald trump. who didn't win new hampshire twice as willie brought up last hour when he claimed to win new hampshire twice? donald trump. joe biden smoked him in new hampshire. claire, he does everything from making fun of nikki haley's dress because he says it's probably not that fancy, to talking about nikki haley stuff she doesn't want to talk about. here's a guy who got caught illegally giving payoff money to a porn star. here's a guy that a judge in new york said raped e. jean carroll. here's a guy already found guilty of fraud. here's a guy who's under -- who has been arrested for stealing nuclear secrets, who has been arrested for stealing secrets on

our war plans against iran. i could go on and on. i don't have time to list the 91 counts. here's a guy, again, utterly shameless and utterly doomed to lose again in the fall, but the republicans, the republicans can't help themselves, can they? >> no. they can't. and, you know, i just think we have to keep reminding everyone, this guy is not well. and what's up with the orange face? i mean, has anybody checked to see, is he applying this cheap bronzer to his face in clumps at various times of the day and night and does not realize it makes him look like he's really unwell. he's a different shade every day. he's confused. he's angry. it is -- and by the way, cracks in the armor appeared last night. according to donald trump he's the incumbent. right? he won four years ago?

if you're the incumbent and can't manage more than 50% of the vote in your own party, you are one weak sister and it is not good for him that he did as poorly as he did. the polls were wrong. they said he was going to win by 20 or 30, and he won by just over 10. frankly there hasn't been a great enthusiasm, hasn't been a good turnout in iowa or new hampshire. so i think -- and biden got a lot of data last night for those republicans that will never vote for trump, those independents who don't want trump, and that's the key to the kingdom in this election. finding those moderate republicans and independent voters. we're going to solidify the base. i'm confident of that. bad night for donald trump. really bad night. >> speaking of the kingdom, your pin does not go unnoticed. we'll talk about that in a moment. we'll give you time to gloat in just a moment. >> you and i were up there, donald trump wins last night by

111 points. some of the -- 11 points. some of the tracking polls had it bigger than that. 11 is still a double-digit win. you look ahead to a general election, he in new hampshire couldn't win an independent voter. got a loelds on the republicans who went out and voted in new hampshire. that was clear. by the way, 80% who came out, the republicans that voted for trump, said joe biden didn't win the election. that message has taken hold. it's flipped, though, for people who voted for nikki haley. 85% said, of course, joe biden won the election. it's an independent problem for many among donald trump. >> there's quite a lot i think in the two clips that we showed. the first clip of chris sununu talking about the campaign and the election that was held yesterday in new hampshire and the second clip, obviously, of the former guy trump on the stage, you know, victory speech, and what i think is there is just what you alluded to, the

target is independent voters. chris sununu, god bless him, he's a star, he is now a star and nikki haley's campaign toward the end of the campaign she was very effective, very efficient, because of chris sununu i think in large part and maybe if chris had attached himself to her earlier in the campaign or spent more time in new hampshire she may not have won new hampshire, but i think she could have come into single digits rather than a double digit loss. that's one thing. the other thing trump appearance. angry, self-absorbed, mean spirited, that is not an attractive package for independent voters in this country. never mind just new hampshire. voters in this country. you don't want to waste your vote for president of the united states on someone with that form of personality, that form of appearance. you don't want to live with that. i think the longer it goes on, the longer nikki haley stays in the race, the longer she'll

provoke more personal attacks like that, and it doesn't work. it doesn't work well for any republican, doesn't work well certainly for the country, but i'll tell you who it does work well for the democrats and joe biden. >> she has another month if she stays in, another month from today in south carolina. buckle up. let's go back up to manchester, new hampshire, where we find former msnbc host kris matthews. great to see you again today. what are your impressions after donald trump's 11-point win last night? >> well, my impression was when i watched it last night of donald trump. i mean, he was -- he was blown apart because here is nikki haley, a relative newcomer to politics, compared to bill clinton and people like that, pulling a bill clinton number. back in 1992, bill clinton lost the new hampshire primary by 8 points to paul sagus, but at 10:00 that night he went out

before the nightly news, and declared himself the winner. you made me the comeback kid. this is exactly what nikki haley did last night. she came along when the polls were still close. the results coming in. very close. and she said i won basically. that is exactly what is driving donald trump crazy. he put a lot of effort into this state. he held a lot of rallies. all around this state. very carefully segmenting different parts of the state. he got a lot of poor people, people hard up really coming out for him in a republican party. and yet, here she is coming out like a butterfly. she was a caterpillar for while and then a butterfly in his face saying basically i won. i'm going to be in your face now for months. that is a statement he did not want to hear. he thought he could put her away. he didn't do it last night. she's going to be around for weeks. she's going to get a lot of media attention because as you all have been saying this morning she's a lot better now

than a few weeks ago. she is close to the star i thought i saw coming here when i came out to cover this thing. i thought she would get closer to him, his weakness. she's getting there with this age thing and so is chris sununu. they were hitting him, and he makes more and more mistakes, confusing her with nancy pelosi. give me a break. that was a long period of time saying she was the one that didn't take my 10,000 troops. what are you talking about? i think she's going to go out like e. jean carroll she's out there and the other people, the other witnesses, what do you think, mark meadows is going to be like in a hearing in the january 6th hearing. come on. he's facing a lot of bad news and a lot of people who are out to get him with the truth. it's not going to be pretty for him, and he saw it last night. she's out there like a butterfly. i thought i stomped her when she was a caterpillar, but she's a

butter fly now. >> i think what we saw was a candidate finding her voice in a campaign that's only going to get harder, uglier with her, and he is already threatening to do that and that will happen on many different levels. but i'm curious, chris matthew, what you make of chris sununu and his voice in the past few weeks, how he has helped her but also perhaps helped make a space for nikki haley finding her voice? >> well, i think you're getting there. he could campaign with her. he's a northeasterner moderate republican, but he's a hopscotch, i don't know what trump meant by that, a hopscotch, what did that mean? i don't know what it meant at all. he was gung-ho and a cheerleader, we would all like a cheerleader like chris sununu. he's the bright side of his

father. he is gung-ho and said we're tired of losing and losers. that's what he said. a republican governor. so i think he's the perfect guy. he's like ed mcmahon and johnny carson. he's the guy you want if your corner every night. i think he's there for her. >> so claire, if you are the biden campaign this morning, watching the result in new hampshire, watching the performance of donald trump after the result in new hampshire, how are you feeling? >> i'm pretty good. yeah. don't get me wrong, they have a lot of work to do and this is going to be a hard-fought battle for months now, but nikki haley sticking around, she clearly has found her voice vis-a-vis how bad donald trump really is for the country. her doing that, week after week after week, if she stays in for

another month, it will be interesting. her money is not going anywhere. usually candidates drop out because they have to. desantis was broke. he didn't drop out because oh, you know, i have no -- it was because nobody wanted to give him more money. that's not true with nikki haley. by the way, nikki haley has another line of attack now which is really interesting. guess who is the insurgent. guess who has all the elite political class on his side. every politician is endorsing donald trump. so she's done this before. it's not like the politicians in south carolina love nikki haley because she was this meteor that, you know, just took off and beat all the guys and won and got re-elected. it's not like they all -- there's a lot of -- in case you haven't noticed there's jealousy in politics and a lot of men that wanted nikki haley out of south carolina. she's really got an opportunity now to say hey, aren't you a little uncomfortable that every politician in washington wants donald trump? it's kind of a flip.

i watch her. watch her. she'll use that. >> it's a great point and something mike and i heard at her event. she has started to make that point. go ahead, tim scott, go ahead, nancy mace, get up on the stage. looks like we know who the establishment figure is in this race. it's donald trump. >> she did use sununu to good effect in new hampshire. sununu said he would vote for donald trump if he's the nominee. that muzzles that attack. to claire's point haley will have the money. she has the ability to stay in if she wants. she also is staring at her home state where she might face a humiliating defeat where she is down, in the moment, down in the polls, 30, 40 plus points. do you think she'll have the appetite to stay in for that? this is a part of the calculation she sees whatever her political future might be? >> she's got the money and i think as long as she has the money, she'll stay in the game because what future does she

really have in donald trump's republican party? if she loses she's not going to have a future. even if she dropped out now it's not like she can come back into that fold. for her she stays in. she puts at least damage on donald trump. she's got her work cut out for her in south carolina. the last time south carolina's republican winner in the primary did not go on to get the republican nomination was in 2012 when newt gingrich actually won, slight blip on the radar there. so we'll see, you know, what happens. >> you know, she actually might in a sense be totally free because of the overwhelming lead that trump has over her in south carolina. she's a free person. if you're a free person you can say i'm still here and what i'm going to do is i am going to so upset donald trump each and every day, that's going to be my victory.

and when she does that, if she does that, again, i refer to his behavior, he will become more and more angry, more and more self-absorbed, more and more bizarre in a public manner and we'll see what happens. >> that's like a psyop operation. by the way can we have a moment of silence for tim scott. >> it's so demeaning. >> it's awful. i feel for him. i actually feel sorry for him. which is a stretch for me. >> he's a well liked guy fair to say in the senate. >> a nice guy. this is just -- i mean watching -- did you notice when trump would say the most outrageously egregious thing did you notice how tim scott moved behind him so he was out of the camera and when he would get back on something more normal he would come back out. >> there's no hiding. trump will drag you up there one way or another.

what "the wall street journal" said about nikki haley vowing to continue on into south carolina. the journal writing in part, quote, miss haley's strength with independent voters revealed a howling weakness for mr. trump if he's the gop nominee. to make it a race miss haley will have to toughen and expand her message. she has been reluctant to make a harder case against mr. trump less she alienate people who voted for him twice. now it's one on one she has to given repubcans reasons to favor her. there's an argument for miss haley to stay in the race through the july convention, writes the "journal." mr. trump faces a treacherous legal road as haley could stay in the race rack up delegates and see what happens if he is found guilty. millions of republicans who aren't bending the knee to mr. trump would like to see how miss haley performance mono a mono against the former president. they're talking about super tuesday, not just south carolina. they feel they can go to a place

that has more independent voters. super tuesday, michigan a little bit before that. how long do you figure she sticks around? >> well, depends on how he's looking legally. because what incentive would she have to drop out? because there could be some kind of black swan event where you need a stable republican nominee and maybe that's part of the strategy that she's banking on. you know, south carolina is going to be a huge test because how that state goes, that's the rest of the south pretty much and that's your index for where trump voters really are. is she going to be able to make a dent into that in south carolina? >> you know, chris, if i were nikki haley, i would be doing three things. i would be campaigning in south carolina, my home territory. i would be campaigning in michigan that comes a couple days after that. you know, it's a state, let's face it, she's going to probably do much better than she will in south carolina. and i would be raising a lot of

money because, you know, that black swan event it may not be so hard to see. i don't see the d.c. case being pushed off for long. i think judge chutkan, the d.c. circuit and the supreme court, are all going to push away donald trump's attempts to delay that trial. the man could be convicted by a jury for serious crimes before the convention. why would nikki haley get out? she's the last person standing. stay in, wait to see what happens. raise money, pick up votes. as "the wall street journal" editorial page says, read by a lot of big donors as you know, stay in the race. you can win this. >> when you were in the house of representatives, joe, you probably met some members that

won because of that reason. they're on the ballot. they stayed on the ballot. the other guy got dumped for legal reasons or whatever, divorces, whatever it was. all of a sudden you're the candidate the only one standing. barack obama was like that in his primary for the senate and his general election candidacy illinois. he ended up winning the whole thing when his opponents fell by the wayside. you're putting it together in a way that has to be in trump's head. he's thinking i have to pay some money to e. jean carroll, more than i thought. another part of the bank account i have to go after. this big, huge $100 million lawsuit against me in terms of my finances. that's something i have to pay for. i've got this trial coming up. judge chutkan, d.c. jury, he doesn't have a great chance right there with voir dire. he's going to have a hard time finding even a sneaky juror that wants to become famous. if he gets convicted of january 6th, there's a good chance that the judge will put him in jail.

i keep asking the lawyers around me, i keep saying, why wouldn't he put this person in jail that put anyone else in jail and appeal his case, if he wants to appeal it from jail? i think this is something on his mind. now last night, one more particle of truth, he called it b.s. because he's used to b.s. using it. here's this woman who said, i'm going to put on my best dress, i'm going to declare victory about 9:00 or 10:00 at night just like bill clinton did and have my comeback kifds headline all over the place. by the way, if you're out booking politicians right now, don't you think that nikki haley's going to get booked in a lot of places to be on television the next couple weeks. she's going to be everywhere. she'll be on "saturday night live," she'll be everywhere she wants to be because she's the figure. she's the figure in town that's haunting donald trump. >> she's the normy in the republican race now. she's someone normal that, you know, people can turn to when

the meltdown becomes beyond something that can be accepted even by extreme republicans who vote for trump. this two actually expose trump in a way he's never been exposed before. >> extreme republicans who may be at the end of the day will want one thing, something they haven't had in a very long time. >> oh, yes. >> to win. >> chris matthews, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> this is the second time i've gone to willie today, waited for willie and you've gone to the tease. i want to -- and, of course, you have chris up there, so i know -- >> chris up there. >> is willie with us. >> i'm sorry, willie. >> leave chris up there no matter who you're addressing for ratings alone. >> we'll leave chris up and willie, you talk. at some point, at some point, republicans, willie geist, are going to want to win a general election. >> seven out of the last eight, right, joe, haven't won the

popular vote. seven out of the last eight. again, nikki haley is saying that every day on the campaign trail. she says effectively, don't come crying to me when you lose in november if you nominate donald trump. that's her big case. >> beautiful. yeah. >> still ahead on "morning joe," president biden focuses on abortion rights in his first campaign rally of 2024. we'll talk to democratic senator tim kaine of virginia about biden's message in his state and how the issue of reproductive freedom and abortion health care will play a role in this year's elections. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watc" we'll be right back. ll business. ...whoa... you've got all kinds of bright ideas, that your customers need to know about. constant contact makes it easy. with everything from managing your social posts, and events, to email and sms marketing. constant contact delivers all the tools you need

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miracle. >> the former president during a fox news town hall early this month bragging about overturning roe v. wade. yesterday in virginia abortion health care was the focus of an impassioned campaign speech by president joe biden as he placed the blame for abortion bans across the country squarely on donald trump's shoulders. >> let there be no mistake the person most responsible for taking away this freedom in america is donald trump. listen to what he says. trump says he's proud that he overturned roe v. wade. he said, i quote, there has to be punishment for the women exercising their reproductive freedom. he describes the dobbs decision as a miracle. for american women it's a nightmare. let's be absolutely clear what trump is bragging about.

the reason there are 21 states where abortion bans are in effect, made with no exception for rape or any other -- or incest, is donald trump. it was donald trump and his supreme court that ripped away the rights and freedoms of women in america. it will be joe biden and kamala harris and all of you who will restore those rights for the women of america. in the past year trump himself endorsed a federal ban promising to lead the charge, god love him, and that means even if you live a state where extremist republicans are not in charge of the state government, your right to choose, your right to privacy is still at risk, but as long as i have the power of the presidency, know this, congress will pass a national abortion ban. i will veto it. i will veto it. >> joining us now, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. senator, first of all, how did

president biden do yesterday? seems to me the contrast was set out last night with donald trump melting down in new hampshire and joe biden looking pretty presidential in virginia. >> well, mika, great to be with you guys this morning. president biden picked up on a theme that is very powerful in virginia and referendum results across the country since dobbs have shown that it's not a regional issue, it's a national one. virginia is the last state in the south that essentially provides to women the protections that they were able to count on under roe v. wade. we are it in the south. we just had state legislative' elections where a republican governor and republican legislative candidates tried to pitch their own version of an abortion ban after 15 weeks and virginia voters handed both houses of our legislature to democrats. this issue is not going away. joe biden and kamala harris are

going to remind voters on the trail every day that it was donald trump who has taken away your rights an the republicans under donald trump will go even farther. >> senator, your home state virginia, shows the power of abortion at the ballot box. we saw that last year. we saw it in the 2022 midterms as well. something else that kept happening at that rally as the president was repeatedly interrupted by protesters upset with his handling in the midwest, upset about what's happening in gaza right now and there's been differences in the democratic party as to what the approach should be. what is your level of concern what you're seeing in the middle east in gaza but also how this could dog the president going forward? >> well, yeah. let's get to the human cost before we get to the politics. it's heartbreaking in a region of pa ren yal heartbreak. this is just -- it's awful. the hamas attack on october 7 was horrific and it was designed and timed for a horrific purpose

to disrupt a normalization discussion between israel and saudi arabia that actually had at its center a discussion about a palestinian future. hamas wanted to disrupt that. then the heartbreaking toll of the war in gaza in civilian deaths and inadequate humanitarian aid and now the escalation you're seeing throughout the region. i'm deeply concerned about it. i think, again, before we get to the politics, the key right now is really redoubling efforts to get hostages released. because i think to get hostages released as in the first instance, there would be a trade of hostages for palestinian prisoners, and there would be a cessation of hostilities for some period of time and when that happened, remember the houthis stopped their escalation campaign during that pause in hostility. we need to deescalate in the region. the last thing the united states needs is to be in another war in the middle east for god's sake. we need to deescalate in the region and the key is really

putting the focus back on the hostages and doing all we can, together with the israeli, squat tarry -- qataris and egyptians to get hostages released and in connection with that you will have a pause and hopefully a long one in hostilities where we can rebalance this chaotic situation. >> good morning, tim. i want to ask you about an issue that i know -- >> hey, claire. >> that everybody is focused on up there. immigration i think is a really serious issue. the southern border is a very serious political issue for the democratic party, for november. i know that there is really -- negotiations that are coming close to a conclusion between jim langford, the republican of oklahoma and chris murphy, the democrat from connecticut and you're close to having a deal to vote on. my question is this, it's my understanding that mitch mcconnell had a very rough caucus meeting yesterday, that

the maga extremist within the republican caucus have taken up the position that the house has taken that they want the issue more than they want a solution. they don't want to pass anything because they want it to still be a huge problem. what assurance can you give us that the democrats will vote on this bill even if mcconnell doesn't have a huge consensus in his caucus about voting for the negotiated immigration fix? >> claire you're right. this is really threading a needle because, you know, some want to use it as a cudgel and don't want to solve a problem. some want to solve the problem but have different ideas how to solve it. i think you're going to see emerge within just a couple of days a deal that we will vote on in the senate. i predict it's going to pass in a significantly bipartisan way. but you're going to lose democratic votes and republican votes and as you know getting 60 votes it's different if it's 50

democrats and 10 republicans than if it's, you know, 35 democrats and 25 republicans. both add up to 60, but it's completely different in terms of what happens when that bill goes over to the house. so i think the plan is coming together. it will be ukraine aid, it will be a border provision, israel and gaza and state disaster relief and indo-pacific aid, all in one package, but i think it's going to be a package that's going to lose some votes on the left and right. you'll make everybody mad. but oftentimes that's what has to happen to get something big done and i think we're close. >> senator, elise here, you said something a moment ago -- >> hey elise. >> talking about foreign policy that made a lot of sense. we do not need another war in the middle east and you are part of a bipartisan letter to president biden asking for more congressional oversight of the recent bombing of the houthis. how much support is there for congressional authorization of the strikes in the red sea?

>> there's different -- there's a lot of different opinions about it, elise, but i think there's uniform desire, what's the strategy? what's the path to deescalation? you not only see the houthis in the red sea, you see iranian-backed militias in iraq and syria, you have challenges with hezbollah. there is just this sense, this widening escalation, even just looking at iran and pakistan are going back and forth, there's a regional escalation, much of it tied to the war in gaza, and i think what we want from the administration is, what's the strategy for deescalation? what is the military strategy with respect to the houthis? if you're doing these attacks to deter and degrade the houthis, but you're saying that you expect them to respond in kind and so they're not going to stop, what's the strategy? and then as you get that question, how do we deescalate what's the strategy, then you get to authorization questions. congress has not authorized any

military action against the houthis in yemen or the red sea. the president needs to defend american ships and american troops and american personnel, but most of the ships that go through the red sea are foreign flagged ships. self-defense does not apply to protecting the vessels of foreign nations. might be a good strategy to do it, but the president can't do it unilaterally without congress. we're pressing the administration in a bipartisan way, what is the strategy and once we hear that, then we have to have the authorization discussion because we can't just stumble and slide into a broader regional conflict without congress taking it seriously and debating it in front of the american public. >> senator, you mentioned the hostages being held in gaza, and we're talking about a region of the world where nearly every country, every neighborhood seems to have a lit fuse to it. it's -- >> yeah. >> the whole region is on fire with potential large-scale

warfare. but one of the biggest impediments it seems to many people exists in tel aviv. bibi netanyahu. is he a friend or foe? what do we do about bibi netanyahu in terms of cease-fires and finding out what hostages are still alive and can we get them freed? >> look, israel gets to pick its own government, and bibi netanyahu is the prime minister and has been for a long time. my personal belief, i think he has made israel dramatically less safe. i think his decision to fight against the palestinian statehood during his whole career has made israel less safe. i think his decision he could kind of help prop up hamas in gaza to keep it separate from fatah and the pa on the west bank and he could manage that tension is part of what led to october 7, and his comments and particularly the comments of

some of the other members of his cabinet are not conducive to finding a path forward. that's why i think let's recenter the discussion on the hostages. i really believe getting the hostages released -- and that will require a trade as the first tranche did where palestinian prisoners get released -- you also buy time, stop the hostilities, get humanitarian aid to suffering people, likely stop the houthi attacks in the red sea, let's recenter this back on the hostages. i think a hostage release announcement would be the single most positive development in potentially transforming and deescalating the situation right now. >> democratic senator tim kaine of virginia, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. we'll see you soon. coming up, florida governor ron desantis is talking about what went wrong with his failed presidential bid and spoiler, it's not his fault. we'll show you what he says

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live picture kind of a drizzly reagan international airport in washington. 7:47 in the morning. as promised, claire, we yield the floor to you to gloat in the kansas city chiefs winning a huge game against buffalo on the road. the first time patrick mahomes in his career had to win a road playoff game which is an amazing statistic. they pulled it out. how are you feeling about going on the road again to play baltimore? >> i love we're an underdog again. remember last week when everybody was dissing my chiefs, i calmly said, they'll do well if they're an underdog and they're an underdog again this week. the line has moved even more

towards baltimore. everybody is betting ravens. so it will be a fun game. by the way, 50 million viewers. 50 million. >> astounding. >> that's a super bowl number and 10 million more than any of the other divisional playoffs. so i bet the nfl wants the chiefs to wi >> you better believe. >> i'm betting they do. >> they want taylor swift at the super bowl, i promise. i want jason kelce. >> i have one request of andy reid, don't do a jet sweep of me coal. >> it's a specific question. >> we don't call him hands mecole hardman for nothing. he has a hard time holding on to the ball. >> not the only one in the receiver corps. >> rice did great, kelce had a great game. even our friend marquess caught few passes. it will be fun. >> we were talking about this in the break, there are certain guys you don't bet against.

>> yeah. >> wherever they're playing. jordan, brady, mahomes is in that group now. >> he has reached that level. the chiefs have earned it. they are the team you don't bet against until they are defeated. two super bowls, now in his sixth straight afc title game. first one on the road, yes. but lamar jackson who is going to be nfl mvp he is a fantastic player. up until last week his post season resume had been shaky. this ravens team is very good. they will be home. i'm picking the chiefs until they lose. >> great defense. ravens have a great defense. it should be a good game. >> john harbaugh, good coach. >> yeah. >> concentrates on defense. always has. the ravens have always been tough on defense. always. i good coach. >> concentrates on defense, always has and the ravens have always been tough on defense always. ray lewis on. always tough. the thing about the chiefs that strikes me the most is patrick mahomes sense of grace after

each win or each loss, he's one of the most gracious people in professional sports. when they interview him, like they interviewed him after the buffalo game. this was a great environment. i loved playing here. it's really nice to see someone like that. >> and he rushes to the other team's quarterback immediately after the game, and you know, with a -- and he and josh allen are friends. it's a genuine thing. he believes that being a good winner is just as important -- >> it is. >> -- as being, you know, a gracious loser. >> and gracious even as bills fans were chucking snowballs at him on his way off the field. let's turn to the 2024 oscar nominations. oppenheimer earning 13 total nominations. barbie got eight. both nominated for best picture. american fiction, anatomy of a fall, the holdovers, maestro, past lives, poor things and the

zone of interest. best actress nominees are annette bening for nyad, sandra huller for anatomy of a fall, carey mulligan for maestro, emma stone in poor things. bradley cooper for my stroe. coleman domingo, thrilled for him, paul giamatti could be the favorite for the holdovers or killian murphy in oppenheimer and jeffrey wright. a lot of people talking about some snubs, elise, i don't know if you saw that. >> barbie, margot robbie not nominated. ryan gosling is nominated. he came out and put out a statement, how do you not nominate greta gerwig. >> it reflects who you have voting on these oscar nominees. you have an older base of men primarily, and that's what you're going to get, and the

oscar, the academy has done a lot to try to diversify and to get more with the moment, but you see in moments like this where they are out of step with the movie going public. >> honestly, not nominating margot robbie or greta gerwig feels like the plot for the se quell of barbie. >> really good movies this year. >> really good movies, jeffrey wright in "american fiction" is really good. paul giamatti is great in holdovers. the thing that surprised me the most is our friend bradley cooper did not get nominated for best director. that was an epic piece of work. bradley got great reviews, but the director's job in that movie was phenomenal. >> did get a bunch of other nominations for maestro, that's goods news. coming up, we're headed back to new hampshire, steve kornacki will be back at the big board

for us when "morning joe" comes back. ♪♪ okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪)

emergency earlier this month. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: within hours of the midair emergency on flight 1282 alaska airlines ceo grounded all 65 of his max-9s. as an engineer he immediately suspected the problem was bigger than one plane. >> there's no doubt that alaska sed an airplane off the production line with a faulty door. >> it could have cost your passengers their lives. >> exactly.

>> reporter: minicucci took us inside to see the door plug now being inspected on every max-9, a series of bolts hold it in place. the ntsb investigating whether the door plug was every bolted in place on the assembly line. >> boeing is better than this. flight 1282 should never have happened. should never have happened. >> reporter: already both united and alaska have found problems while inspecting their max-9s. >> we found discrepancy on many of our airplanes. >> meaning loose bolts. >> loose bolts. it could be a missing cotter pin. >> have you conveyed your disappointment, your anger to boeing's top leadership about this? >> i am more than frustrated. i'm angry. this happened to alaska airlines, our guests, our people. >> reporter: boeing has ordered a safety standdown for thursday. in a statement, boeing says we have let down our airline customers and are deeply sorry

for the significant disruption to them, their employees, and their passengers. it was five years ago that two max 8 crashes overseas killed 346 people. boeing promised then it would double down on quality control. now united's ceo says he'll consider buying air bus planes rather than boeing's. >> the max 9 is probably the straw that broke the camel's back for us. >> alaska is sending its own inspectors into boeing's plant to double check boeing's work. it was pure luck no one was sitting next to the plug when it exploded. >> did you think my god what if somebody was sitting there? >> there were only seven open seats. we had a guardian angel honestly on that airplane. >> tom costello with that report. still ahead on "morning joe," nikki haley's message to republican voters about staying in the race, despite another loss to donald trump. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. "morning joe" is back in two

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♪♪ now, you've all heard the chatter among the political class. they're falling all over themselves saying this race is over. >> it's not over! [ cheers and applause ] >> well, i have news for all of them, new hampshire is first in the nation. it is not the last in the nation. [ cheers and applause ] >> this race is far from over, there are dozens of states left to go. >> nikki haley vowing to stay in the race despite a digit loss to

donald trump in new hampshire after winning the iowa caucuses last week, trump beat haley by just over 11 points in the granite state, president biden meanwhile is hitting the campaign trail after cruising to victory in new hampshire without even being on the ballot. we'll play for you portions of his passionate speech focused on the contrasts between himself and the republican front runner. it comes as new general election polling out of pennsylvania shows the incumbent president leading trump in that key battleground state. >> and there's a trend going on in pennsylvania, not just with joe biden over the last two polls, willie, we've also seen it with fetterman. his numbers going way up in pennsylvania, people that know this race say pennsylvania's now looking like his strongest state and he is looking strong there. wisconsin following, and so they'll be focusing on michigan

a good bit to get those numbers back up as well. by wait, if he wins those three states, the election's over. it's just over. there's no way trump gets to 270. but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. willie, i was glad to see nikki haley stay in last night. there's so many people that have done these halfway measures. they've been weak. pretty much assign themselves to be nothing but donald trump's lap dogs for the rest of their political career. for nikki haley, there's only one way through this. i mean, there's light way down there at the end of the tunnel, and the way you do it is you win, and you just keep at it, you keep going, and maybe you don't win outright, but you win a war of attrition because with this candidate she's run against, donald trump more untethered from reality than ever and let's face it, you know, it's very sad.

i saw it in my parents, and nikki haley saw it in her parents. it's just -- you know, it's just nature. i mean, he's losing -- he's losing more than one or two steps. he gets confused up there. there's no reason why nikki haley shouldn't stay in this race. and again, possibly win a war of attrition, and find herself after all of these trials and all of the chaos, find herself as the republican nominee this summer. that said, donald trump is freaking out. >> he's threatening her. >> he had a meltdown last night. he threatened her. again, more reason to stay in the race because, again, he's more detached and more radical than ever, and also, the biden campaign trying to pretend she's not there, like they're saying the general election's begun. you know, forget what happened last night, don't listen to what

nikki haley -- why? well, it's very obvious. they want to run against the crazy guy. they don't want to run against -- look at that split screen. who do you think -- who on this planet other than extreme magas think that joe biden wants to run against the woman on the right? nobody. nobody. republicans know donald trump is the only person on that screen that joe biden's going to beat. they know that, willie. that's what makes this so fascinating. will they be too stupid to vote that way in the upcoming contest. i think they will. >> well, that's been her argument, and we heard it in her closing argument. we were up in new hampshire the last couple of days, which is, guys, we're going to lose if you nominate donald trump. don't take my word for it. look at the polling. i beat joe biden by

double-digits. donald trump is losing or within the margin of error with joe biden. now, last night donald trump did win by 11 points. it was a smaller margin than some of that tracking in the week leading up to it. 11 points is 11 points. it's a double-digit win in new hampshire, donald trump got that. but if you look inside the numbers, he can't win an independent voter. he dominates the republican party, 85% of the people who voted for him came out and said joe biden did not win the election. so his propaganda, his lies have taken hold with that segment of the electorate, but the guy cannot win an independent voter. if nikki haley does stay in, she's got a month to run in her home state where there aren't a lot of independents going to show up. it's going to be a heavily republican electorate down there. it's a tough road for her, even in her home state. this guy is nuts. watch him perform. watch his speech last night.

i think joe and mika, you might agree, it was the most ungracious victory speech in the history of politics. we'll play some of it, criticizing nikki haley, going after her dress that she was wearing, on and on, just completely humiliating the men standing behind him, particularly senator tim scott who nikki haley appointed to his senate seat. donald trump drew him into the insults. this is who he is. this is who he's going to be, and she says i win. he loses against joe biden. you got to think this through. it's an uphill climb as we saw last night and we'll see in south carolina. >> and my god, who is tim scott? who is tim scott? the guy that nikki haley appointed to the senate, he's supporting a guy right now who defended nazis in charlottesville. he's defending a guy that

supports the replacement theory. he's defending a guy and supporting a guy happily, happily that's easily the most racist president in our lifetime. it just goes without saying, he's inspired racism across this country, just all you have to do is go on social media and see what his supporters are saying. >> we want to show you trump's leering meltdown of a speech last night, but first, along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," elise jordan is with us this morning and in new hampshire, nbc news national affairs analyst, john heilemann. so let's go straight to donald trump, as the final result in the new hampshire primary was closer than some expected. >> it was supposed to be like a 20 point blowout, according to tracking polls. that's why i think trump was made.

nikki haley came out pretty early in the night and said she was marching on with her campaign, and trump delivered a venomous victory speech after learning that haley planned to stay in the race despite her loss to trump. his wild appearance coming amid another day of angry binge posts on social media. >> he's not well. >> who the hell was the imposter that went up on the stage before and, like, claimed a victory. she did very poorly. you know, we won new hampshire three times now, three. three. we win it every time. we win the primary. we win the generals. this is not your typical victory speech, but let's not have somebody take a victory when she had a very bad night. i find in life you can't let people get away with bull [ bleep ], okay? you can't. you just can't do that. and when i watched her in the fancy dress that probably wasn't

so fancy come up, i said what's she doing? we won. did you ever think that she actually appointed you, tim? and -- think of it, appointed and you're the senator of her state and she endorsed me. you must really hate her. no, it's a shame. uh-oh. >> i just love you. >> that's why he's a great politician. you have the now very unpopular governor of this state, this guy, he's got to be on something. i've never seen anybody with energy. he's like hopscotch. we have beaten biden, you could almost say who can't. who the hell can't. the man can't put two sentences together. and just a little note to nikki, she's not going to win. she's not going to win. but if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes, and i could tell you five reasons why

already, not big reasons, a little stuff that she doesn't want to talk about. i don't get too angry. i get even. >> oh, that was kind of a little threat right there. and that's going to be the choice for nikki haley. >> here we have donald trump mocking chris sununu who made it clear yesterday, and has made it clear throughout this campaign, he is not a man to be mocked. he was on fox news yesterday saying that donald trump had gotten too old, that he was almost 80 and the fox news host chimed in. >> he's 77. >> yeah, said he's 77. >> to which chris sununu said, yeah, almost 80. i'll tell you what we'll do, we'll go over math later. and then talked about all of his senior moments. and by the way, they were shouting geriatric from the crowd yesterday at nikki haley's event. this is what's freaking donald trump out. he's being exposed. but just for the record here, i'm reading from the hill,

despite what trump claimed that sununu's very unpopular, he has a 63% approval rating compared to donald trump's 42% approval rating in new hampshire, and as chris sununu said, i've never lost an election, you have. and you said, she should take chris sununu to south carolina. >> everywhere she goes. >> everywhere she goes. >> i think everybody has a different kind of point where they feel that they're pushing things too far. i think that nikki haley is, you know, a very strong southern woman, and you know, at the same time, there might be some, you know, breaks in her brain where she thinks, oh, i can't go that far. chris sununu is showing her, yes, you can. when you're speaking the truth about someone who had sex with a porn star and then took the money for his campaign, let's

start right there. someone who defamed and raped a woman. let's start right there. someone who stole documents and admits to it and says they're his. let's start right there. you know foreign policy, go in there. go after him, and let's talk about the threat that he poses to our democracy. i think that he can show her that it's actually easy once you push through that, but republicans have kind of like these brakes they put on in their brain where they're too afraid to go too close to donald trump. at this point if she wants this campaign to continue, i don't think she has any other choice but to go in 100% after him. >> there's one way. there's one way out. and that is by winning. that is by going after donald trump and just telling the truth, and as mika said, it's the truth to say a judge in new york after a jury said she -- donald trump was liable. >> instead of saying i'm not following that. >> -- for sexually abusing her,

the judge said what he did was rape, let's call rape rape. and then, yeah, he funneled money to pay off a porn star a couple of weeks before his election, and my god, if a congressman or a senator or a governor or anybody had done that without reporting that, they would -- they would be in jail. i know. i knew members of congress that got put in jail for going golfing in ireland and coming back and reading a speech on the floor. so please, the double standards are really, really crazy, but john heilemann, you know, this idea that this election is over, nikki haley -- i know that's what the biden campaign wants because they desperately want a matchup with donald trump. >> i would be careful what you wish for. >> that's what donald trump wants. the fact is let's compare what

people were saying about nikki haley at the beginning of the week and what they were saying about nikki haley at the end of the week. i mean, there was a lot of growth just in those three or four days. she ended strong. now she has a month to do that, to go around south carolina where she was governor for six years, to go to all the people she knows there, and again, she's got a month, a month, while trump is going crazy, she can work the ground. and by the way, mika and i met her when she was a state legislator running for governor, nobody, i mean nobody thought she was going to win. nobody. and when mika and i left that first debate that we moderated, we said nikki haley's going to win, and she did. she beat a lot of big, powerful men that were supposed to humiliate her, and anything's possible. she's got a month. whatst your takeaway from new

hampshire, and what does she need to do moving forward? >> well, first i think you guys put your finger on an important thing. the number of people over the weekend on the republican side who i talked to for the piece that we aired yesterday who said some version of watching her last weekend, who said some version of if the nikki haley we're seeing this weekend had come here six months ago, this would be a different election. and it wasn't that they thought she had revolutionized her performance, but she had gone -- she's a very cautious politician. she's always been very cautious. she's always been very calculating. that does not really work in new hampshire. it doesn't really work anywhere anymore in the modern able. the spontaneity, the sense of being loose, the sense of connecting with people, that is a thing that not only works in places like iowa and new hampshire, it can translate over television, it translates on digital. you can't seem like you're kind of pathologically cautious,

especially when you're running against donald trump. what we saw with nikki haley was this growth, the growth towards spontaneity, the growth towards kind of not just taking the gloves off going after trump, but also just being looser, being more human out on the campaign trail, and you could see it almost day-to-day over the weekend. it wasn't as radical or as transformative as what happened with hillary clinton in 2008, but it was pretty striking, and i'll say having been at her event last night in concord, it was the best i've ever seen her. in her speech, her consolation speech, her victory speech, i don't know what you want to call that speech, but the i'm staying in the race speech. she was poised. she was confident. she was at ease. part of the reason that trump went so crazy was not just that she didn't immediately bow down and say oh, dear leader trump, you beat me, i will now be your slave and supplicant, he looked at her and said that's a problem, you know.

a confident, secure -- >> younger. >> at ease, younger woman on that stage presenting the image that she was presenting, looking as good -- and i mean this in every way, politically, her presentation, everything, all the stuff that trump would fixate on and focus on, he's looking at her and that's part of what caused that freakout. he sees that she's on a trajectory towards getting better. he also wants people to bow down and kiss the ring and that infuriates him when it doesn't happen. i -- you know, look, he won 75% of republicans up here. she won two-thirds of independent voters. you think about the composition of the party in south carolina, she's going to be playing a waiting game, joe. the reality is, you know, if you have this election, even if she's getting better, the party in south carolina is always a maga version of this party, and trump's going to be even stronger there. something's got to happen. she's probably going to have the money to stay in this race because of the koch brothers who want her to stay in, at least as of now. the money's not going to force her out. she's got that time and that

connection to the state. something else is going to have to happen in addition to her getting better. trump is going to have to falter in some way and she's going to be waiting around for that to happen. given that it's donald trump isn't a terrible bet, it's not a crazy thing for her to want to stay in and see what happens over that month. a month is a lifetime in politics. coming up, steve kornacki is standing by at the big board to break down last night's results. plus, one of our next guests asks, how much does nikki haley's gender matter? "the washington post"'s alexi mccammond joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." n straight ahead on "morning joe." hi, my name is joann, and i lost 75 pounds on golo. the other times i've lost weight, i was tired, run down. with golo, you feel great as you lose weight. i have enough energy to exercise every day. (energetic music fades)

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republican voters. that's the short answer. he won republican voters by 55 points over nikki haley. what went wrong for haley in terms of not getting this within single-digits or really getting in position to have a shot to win is two things. first of all, in the population centers of the state, we saw this in iowa, that's where the voters that she tends to appeal to are disproportionately, voters with higher incomes, places with higher c concentrations of college degrees. nashua, new hampshire, is a perfect example. this was supposed to be in haley's world, this was supposed to be haley country, and yet she didn't even win nashua. it's a place she needed to win by about ten points. the other problem nikki haley had and we saw this in iowa when you get away from population centers and get to areas that are small individually but big collectively and that really are becoming the backbone of the republican party, especially since donald trump came on the

scene nearly a decade ago now, we're talking about small towns. we're talking about rural areas, we're talking about places with lower median incomes, places with lower college attainment, nikki haley did absolutely nothing in iowa with places like that. there were a quarter of the counties in the state where she got single-digits, and that trend absolutely continued in new hampshire and showed no signs of changing. a good example, again, we'll go to the massachusetts border. a little town new ipswich, fitchburg, mass is a little south of here. 51 point win for trump over haley here. again, this is like an iowa-like performance for her in a county that's similar to what she struggled in in iowa. so it all adds up to are trump winning this thing by double-digits. if we go to the exit poll here, i think it really put it is in stark relief. this was an electorate, you are not going to find another state like this. district of columbia is the only thing i can even think of where the electorate is going to resemble something like this, 50/50 essentially, republican and non-republican.

and look, among republicans 25% for nikki haley. you're not winning primaries if you're getting 25% of the republican vote. you're not coming close to the republican nomination if you're getting 25% of the republican vote. where haley was able to do better and keep this thing to the low digits independent voters, made up more than 40% of the electorate. she did win them by 22 points that's a big margin, a good margin for her. that is not by far the best margin we've seen among independents in a new hampshire republican primary. the biggest margin was 42 points. this is 22. the biggest margin was 42, that was john mccain in 2000. and john mccain then went to south carolina as this race will now go to south carolina, and in south carolina george w. bush was able to say john mccain is winning this thing is competitive on the backs of non-republicans. he was able to turn that heavily

towards him. trump seemed to be setting up a similar dynamic, and he's got a stronger argument to the core republican base than bush or really any other republican i think have had because this is a more than a 70 point swing from trump winning by 49 among republicans to nikki haley winning by 22 among independents. that's a 71 point swing. that is by far the biggest swing between winners of those two groups we've ever seen in a new hampshire republican primary. if you just look ahead at what's coming on this calendar. i can pull it up on the screen right here, you have nevada. the rules are haley's in a play mare with no delegates, trump's in the caucus that has the delegates. trump's going to get those delegates out of nevada. there are four in the virgin islands. it's a wild card. there's a possibility haley could do well there. south carolina, it's her home state, but the issues based on those demographics haley's going to have in south carolina are profound, and the key here is once we're out of this -- these

initial states, the rules change, and in many of these states the rules have been changed at the behest of the trump campaign, which has a strong influence over the state republican parties. they've not been changed in south carolina. you win a congressional district by a single vote, you get every single delegate in the district. you win a statewide vote by one point, you win the entire delegate pool. trump got about a third of the vote in south carolina in 2016. he swept all 50 delegates. he absolutely could do the same based on what we're seeing right now. you go to michigan, it's split into two parts right here. there's two different days, 16 delegates. these are going to be given out proportionally. haley could get a chunk of these 16. these 39 are essentially winner take all because it's a two-person race right now. and in most of these states that are going to vote super tuesday, the rule is basically if you get 50% plus one, you get all the congressional district

delegates. if you get 50% plus one, you get the statewide delegates. trump's getting 51 and haley's getting 49, he will take all in a district or he will take all statewide. michigan, you go down to march 5th, it's a 50% rule in alabama, in arkansas, california statewide, 50% plus one, closed primary. you win -- trump's at 66% in the latest poll in california. you get all 169 there. north carolina is proportional. haley could have an opportunity there. texas, 50%, you win the district, all the votes. 50%, you win the statewide all the votes. haley could do well in vermont, i could see, but this is just a recipe looming on the 5th of march for what the republican process is designed to do, to get a nominee early. >> yeah. wow. >> all right, steve kornacki, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. it is -- >> what a night. >> i will just say again, what a

night, i will just say again it's very early. so we have next real contest that matters a month from now. and willie, that's in south carolina. i just want to say steve showed us in two charts the problem facing the republican party, they elect a guy that gets 75% of the votes in the republican party, and loses and only gets about 35% of independent votes, so as steve said, you can't win a republican primary if your opponent's getting 75%. the other side of that is you can't win in a general election if you can't get 40% of independent voters. and we're seeing na that in places like pennsylvania where donald trump's getting smoked and is going to lose. so this has been -- we've talked about this since 2016.

it's still a conundrum. also, you, again, i can't say this enough, donald trump's getting about 50% of the vote in iowa. he's getting about 50% of the vote in new hampshire. he's running as basically a glorified incumbent, has everything on his side, everything on his side. this guy should be getting 80%, 90% of the vote. if anybody -- if anybody thinks that barack obama were running as a democrat this year, if he could run as a democrat this year, those numbers we'd be asking, is he going to get 92% or 98% of the vote. donald trump is so weak and infeebled as a politician compared to barack obama. and the fact that a glorified incumbent is only getting 54% of the vote and everybody's

freaking out and calling him like a king maker is laughable. this guy, willie, this guy has so many problems going into the general election, he is so weak, even in his own party. one out of four voters in some states -- one out of three voters in other states are saying they'll never vote for him. that is a weak, weak, infeebled general election candidate. >> and yet we heard again last night the head of the rnc saying it's clear that people want donald trump. we need to unite around him. you had two more republican senators including john cornyn of texas come out after the results last night and say it's clear, the people have spoken, we've got to rally behind donald trump. you had all those men on the stage behind donald trump last night again, and we should say the american people have not spoken. the people of iowa, 56,000or so

of them, just over 200,000 republicans have spoken, as you say just clearing donald trump 50% in both place. so despite that second place finish in new hampshire last night, nikki haley, as we say, insists she can still beat donald trump while he cannot beat other candidates. >> with donald trump, republicans have lost almost every competitive election. we lost the senate. we lost the house. we lost the white house. we lost in 2018, we lost in 2020, and we lost in 2022. the worst kept secret in politics is how badly the democrats want to run against donald trump. >> trump's a loser! >> he's a loser! >> they know trump is the only republican in the country who joe biden can defeat. >> elise, it's not really even a

secret. the biden campaign is saying out loud, donald trump's the nominee, let's go have the general election. nikki haley also says on the campaign trail if you go to her events, she says don't come crying to me when you lose in november, i'm telling you right now, i can beat joe biden. donald trump cannot. you need to vote for me. >> it's really clear that the party elites are not rigging the process given that the candidate who is doing the best is one who would lose to joe biden possibly, although, i think it still could be a close race. you look at the steep climb, though, that nikki haley has going into south carolina. it's about a month. she has to make up about 30 points with donald trump. she has never lost an election there. she's won tough battles, she's always underestimated, but you look at the fault of the republican challengers to donald trump to this point, they've spent about 1% of their war chest to actually attack donald trump, and that's out of about 250 million that desantis and

haley that they spent collectively. so haley this weekend started to attack donald trump, and in an effective way. attacking his age is a winning argument. voters question his age. they question his stability and when he's mistaking her for nancy pelosi, it's a great thing for her. i would run that on autorepeat in ads. these next 30 days is she going to do what it takes when it comes to attacking donald trump? >> yeah, there's no doubt that the results of iowa and new hampshire show some bright red warning signs for donald trump heading into a general election, but in terms of the republican primary process, he did still win by 11 points. nikki haley's not going to find a more favorable electorate anytime soon than she did in new hampshire last night and she still lost by double-digits, and yes, she's vowing to get in, and we've been going through the reasons why you would, she will have the money. she's got fundraisers slated for this week here in new york city. she has won races in south carolina before, but she trails badly in the polls there. you know, we remember ron

desantis was insisting he was going to stay in until super tuesday the very morning of the day he dropped out. you're in until you're not. there is still a chance republicans are talking that at some point haley may pull the plug to try to avoid that humiliating defeat, which seems likely in south carolina, unless there's some sort of black swan event that really changes things. so we'll have to see about that, but in terms of what she said about the democrats, you're right. i mean, the white house last night, the campaign, they made some moves. they've shifted two top senior advisers, i know we'll get more from the white house to the campaign in wilmington. they are declaring today the general election is on. it is a binary choice. they'll set aside whatever misgivings they have for biden and won't vote for trump again. >> nato is poised to add a new member as the united states steps up its response to attacks in the middle east. retired admiral james stavridis

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election? let's get this done. talk to your families and friends, organize your community. register to vote, get people to the polls, and let's remember who we are. we are the united states of america! and there's nothing, nothing beyond our capacity when we do it together. >> that's part of president biden's message in a fiery campaign speech yesterday in virginia. man, he went there on every front, but that was -- that

was -- that was really emphasizing not just protecting democracy but protecting women's rights that have been taken away from them by donald trump, who brags about it. >> so joe biden yesterday looked presidential, looked strong, looked in control, looked measured, everything that donald trump didn't look like, so just by existing he creates that contrast because of who he is and what everybody knows about him, but he also has a lot to work with. when you take away a right that women have had for 50 years and our daughters and our sisters and your wives out there now are afraid to be pregnant and afraid to have pregnancy complications because of what donald trump has done, i think it changes the game in the general election and joe biden and, yes, kamala harris, are in a great position to use that to shake americans

into understanding that we have to protect democracy, not them, not just joe biden, every single person in america is responsible for preserving not just how precious this democracy is but our rights and our health and everything that we have worked for, and i think he was making the case quite well yesterday in virginia. >> it was compelling. it's going to be a compelling argument throughout this entire campaign. you compare that, john heilemann, to what we saw with donald trump last night melting down even in victory. and that scene with tim scott and trump saying, oh, you must really hate her, she appointed you. you're from her state. you must really hate her, i mean, humiliating tim scott publicly. what was your take on that? >> well, i think two things about this, joe, the first on

joe biden. i had lunch the other day with a very significant democratic friend of the president's, friend of president biden and someone who's a big donor and bundler in biden's world who said that, you know, he had had a discussion with biden before the end of last year in which he sort of said, you know, there is a different joe biden when it comes to being on the campaign trail. there's a joe biden -- not to criticize -- this person was not criticizing biden's performance as president, that kind of eye of the tiger, he needed to basically come into the new year at battle stations. he needed to really be on, and this person said to me, he said, you know, look at biden so far this year, look at every time he's been -- done anything on camera, in public, in the course of january, especially things that have been campaign-related, he said there is a marked change in how much sharper and how much more focused and how much more fired up joe biden is. so that's something worth noting. this has been a -- after the first of the year, we've gotten a little bit of a new -- we've

got campaign joe out there. when it comes to trump and tim scott, i just got to say, you know, it feels like it should be an object lesson to any republican, there's all these republicans. we saw them up here all week, j.d. vance and elise stefanik who think they're going to be -- they want to be trump's running mate. we've seen this in a million aspects of trump's political life, the kind of supplicants, those who bow down and scrape before donald trump, and the tim scott thing that you saw, that to me was the most shocking thing. he was obsessed with nikki haley in his victory speech, ungracious, unhinged. that in some weird way didn't surprise me, but that moment when he turned to tim scott and looked at a guy who had kind of prostrated himself in front of trump. he had abandoned nikki haley, a guy -- a woman who had kind of made his political career possible, turned around and endorses trump, is standing up there on the night that trump is against nikki haley and all he wants to do is just, you know, quietly -- that's enough, his presence on that stage is

enough, and instead trump turns and just humiliates him and makes him feel so obviously uncomfortable. to me it's just an object lesson for every republican, this is what you're going to get if you make a personal or political sacrifice for donald trump. he will at some point say thank you very much, now let me make a fool of you. put me in a position where you are humiliated on national television. i don't think it's restricted to tim scott. we've seen it over and over again and into the future. every republican just take note, this is what you get for being nice to donald trump, for being loyal to donald trump, sacrificing for donald trump. coming up, we'll speak with the governor of minnesota, democrat tim walz, he's out campaigning for president biden, and will weigh in on the possible rematch with donald trump this fall. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment

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be getting closer now to striking a new deal for the release of hostages. sources with knowledge of the discussions tell reuters both sides have agreed in principle that an exchange of israeli hostages for palestinian prisoners can take place during a month-long ceasefire. but that plan reportedly is being held up by differences over how to bring a permanent end to the war. this comes as tensions continue to rise across the middle east. late last night the united states launched another strike against houthi military sites in yemen, destroying two janet ship missiles, the pentagon says posed an imminent threat. joining us former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis. admiral, good to see you. let's talk about what's going on in the red sea right now, which is that american carriers and ships and fighter jets are attacking houthi positions that they say are going after cargo ships in the sea and targeting american interests as well.

do you worry about where this goes if the houthis and the iranian-backed militias continue to escalate, what the united states will have to do in return? >> yeah, it's the right question to be asking. i would say that three things to bear in mind, number one, this is not just american interests. if we allow this to continue, you're going to see fuel prices rise, the global economy start to choke. it's a very bad fact set for the global economy. secondly, the houthis appear to be determined to continue these strikes and so in response i think the administration is doing exactly the right thing, willie, which is -- and you're showing it right here on this graphic -- going after the surgical instruments that are being used to strike these ships, the missile launchers, the radars, the command and control, the fuel, the small boats.

and, frankly, at the end of the day we can do that very effectively. the real message is to tehran. here we get to your point. i'm somewhat concerned, but i think it's a one in five chance that iran really takes on the u.s. and really gets fired up behind the houthis. another way to put it is the iranians will fight to the last houthi, but they're not going to be putting iranian armed forces in harm's way. >> you also have american bases as you know in iraq being targeted. they are going after whatever it is, an irritation, but there are real injuries being inflicted. so what is the goal of iran here? what does it want here? >> yeah, a good way to think about it is take a map of the ancient persian empire and overlay it on the middle east. what they want to do is continue to press forward, perpetuate their brand of islam, shia, and

finally create as much disturbance in the global economy as they can, all for political benefit and, oh, by the way, they don't mind those rising oil prices that are coming out of this. >> so, admiral, let's talk about the other headline there about this potential deal for a ceasefire in exchange for hostages. you know, reuters reports there's still some snags, it's not done yet. we've had -- been close to deals before that have fallen apart. what's your read? from what you know do you think that both the israelis and hamas would go for something like this? >> i do. i think there's motivation on both sides to get more of these hostages out and palestinian prisoners out. we can probably find some trade space in there, jonathan, but, secondly, at the end of the day the israelis are going to continue to go after that tunnel system and the hamas leadership. the hostages can be set off to one side. let's hope we can get a breakthrough. coming up, a live report

from new hampshire on the heels of yesterday's primary vote. nbc's vaughn hillyard is standing by in manchester. he joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." " here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." look at that live shot of los angeles, the sun has yet to come up because it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. we'll dive right in. we've been at it for three hours now. the 2024 republican primary race is moving to south carolina now after donald trump beat nikki haley in new hampshire last night. nbc's hallie jackson has the latest from manchester. >> this is a great, great state.

>> reporter: former president trump overnight on a winning streak and on attack after becoming the only republican in a competitive primary to win both iowa and now new hampshire. >> this is not your typical victory speech, but let's not have somebody take a victory when she had a very bad night. who the hell was the impostor that went up on the stage? >> reporter: mr. trump clearly furious at former u.n. ambassador nikki haley's pledge to stay in the race and deny him the party unity he wants. promising to keep up his barrage in her home state. >> we will head out to south carolina where i think we're going to win easily, but i felt i should do this because i find in life you can't let people get away with bull [ bleep ]. >> reporter: the former president even targeting haley's appearance at her speech earlier that night. >> and when i watched her in the fancy dress, probably wasn't so fancy -- >> reporter: haley speaking soon after the new hampshire results came in, sharpening her attacks. >> with donald trump republicans have lost almost every

competitive election. we lost the senate, we lost the house, we lost the white house. the worst kept secret in politics is how badly the democrats want to run against donald trump. >> reporter: and suggesting president biden may not complete a second term. >> a trump nomination is a biden win and a kamala harris presidency. >> reporter: haley winning a majority of self-described moderates in new hampshire and first-time gop primary voters. the former president dominating in new hampshire among core republican voters, including the majority of self-described conservatives. his march to the nomination appearing on pace despite the multiple indictments he faces, but in new hampshire four in ten voters say they'd consider mr. trump unfit to be president if convicted. >> do you believe that your legal issues are helping or hurting your campaign, sir? >> fake issues.

they're biden issues. it's all election interference. >> hallie jackson reporting for us there. joining us live from manchester, new hampshire, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. good to see you. we will get into the results in just a few minutes what happened here with donald trump's win, what it means going forward, but walk us through a bit because you were in the room, that speech we've been talking about this morning. perhaps the most ungracious victory speech and it was a victory speech last night from donald trump that we've ever heard in politics where he went after nikki haley on all kinds of counts, her dress, everything else about her. called tim scott up to insult her. tim scott sort of scrambled and said, it's not that i hate her, it's that i love you. it was all quite a spectacle. but also floating this innuendo that there's stuff that's going to come out about nikki haley. just you wait, we have a month until south carolina, the former president says, some stuff is going to come out and it's not going to be good for her. >> right. this was donald trump's shot at nikki haley. clearly donald trump frustrated

that she is sticking around in this race and not wrapping up the nomination for him. and this takes me back, willie, if i may, to eight years ago. i was here, right here in new hampshire, the day after that new hampshire primary, when donald trump and ted cruz were heading to south carolina, and ted cruz had built up this idea that south carolina would be his southern wall. well, donald trump had other ideas and he ultimately started throwing out these innuendos and these red herrings about ted cruz's marriage, he would eventually go on to suggest that his father, ted cruz's father, was perhaps behind the assassination of john f. kennedy, and at that moment this was just still the beginning stages of us, you know, journalists beginning to cover donald trump as a political entity and trying to somewhat chase down even any legitimacy of these wild claims that donald trump was throwing out there.

that's why last night inside of that nashua ballroom when donald trump made the suggestion that there were things to be investigated about nikki haley, it caught my ear because we have heard this before. donald trump throwing out these suggestions that we don't know everything about his political rival, and this was a warning shot to nikki haley of what to come -- of what is to come over the next month. we even heard this weekend in media with a right wing outlet in which donald trump suggested that we don't even know where nikki haley came from suggesting again more birther claims. for donald trump this is his style of politics and nikki haley if she stays in this race is going to face an onslaught that perhaps, willie, the likes of you and i and the team here are able to work our way and wade through and call just simply conspiracy theories meant to harm his political rival, but the hard part is there was one voter just yesterday who had seen some of these red herrings,

theories on line from right wing media and at the polling location told me he doesn't like everything he's hear about nikki haley and it's not all out there. right wing propaganda media is already putting this stuff out there, but donald trump could very well in an effort to get nikki haley out of this race, could take it to the forefront, willie. >> as you say, some of these unproven rumors and allegations and conspiracy theories about nikki haley have been around for a long time and donald trump supporters will bring them back now. let's talk about the substance of the campaign here which is that nikki haley just lost iowa by a lot, lost new hampshire by 11 points, okay, maybe it was a little less than was projected in some of those late polls but still a double digit loss. says she's going on now with a full month ahead to her home state. yes, it's her home state but she does not have the support of the governor or most of the congressional delegation there who have already gone in behind donald trump. so what is she up against and what is her strategy going forward? >> right. she only has one member of congress in south carolina backing her candidacy and her

most other prominent surrogate was the governor of this state, new hampshire, chris sununu. the hard part is also going to be the financial resources, she invested heavily into new hampshire and iowa. now this will be an expensive month ahead. she has already put in $2 million worth of reserved tv ad spending, the trump campaign has so far not reserved any ad time. this for her is going to be a difficult path because first is actually the nevada caucus in which already she is not participating technically because of weird party rules in nevada. on february 8th. so donald trump will get all of the delegates out of the state of nevada. and then you're also dealing with some states ahead that are going to have close primaries, like florida, and california, meaning that independents are not able to take part in those primaries like we saw last night in new hampshire in which nearly 50% of the electorate were independents or democrats. in places like california because of some new gop party

rules if a candidate gets over 50% of the vote in california, that candidate gets all of the delegate haul here. so for nikki haley there's going to have to be some serious conversations about this path forward, not only financially and trying to receive whether donors believe that it is worth investing millions more dollars behind her anti-trump candidacy at this point, but you heard her up on stage last night said that she wanted a one on one debate with donald trump. so far he has seemed uneager to engage. if anybody wanted to follow his social media posts last night he went off on a flurry of all caps attacks on her, clearly frustrated with the south carolina -- former south carolina governor who continues to stand in his way from calling himself the presumptive nominee of the party. >> if you want to know where donald trump was mentally last night, he also was attacking his own former press secretary kayleigh mcenany for not being sufficiently loyal for her analysis on television. vaughn hillyard, thanks so much.

let's bring in katty kay, the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton, alexi mccammond, jonathan lemire back with us as well. rev, what did you see last night in new hampshire, what does it tell you about this race and also looking ahead to the general election, what should joe biden think about today? >> obviously trump winning by double digits was not unexpected. i think haley did a little better than some of the polls had, but she didn't make it. i think that the fact that she pledged to keep running is -- is in many ways the ultimate insult to donald trump because he wants everyone to just prostrate and bow to him and say now it's over because what he's really concerned about is his four cases. i think that when you watched his speech and how he tends to

now ramble and go off the rails, you really are beginning to wonder if this is more than just some of us that politically oppose him, whether there's really something that has gotten to him because he doesn't seem to be able tobacco heernt for a long amount of time. i think that he will be the nominee and i think he's demanding people bow to him. there are few moments in my life i have been more embarrassed than to watch tim scott. you know, i know tim and we are both practicing christians, but i don't know if he could pray like that to the other side. i mean, it was humiliating to watch what tim scott did as a sitting senator and one time it wasn't even -- he wasn't even on the script. he interrupted trump to pay homage. so i had to say that because it's bothered me all night. >> he's doing it right here. he says it's just that i love you, mr. trump, it's not that i

hate nikki haley, it's just that i love you, from senator scott. >> it's not a good day in my life to watch tim do that. i mean, to think that we fought to see people like him, black, become high elected in the south and to do -- he has a right to be a republican, he has a right to do donald trump, but to do it in such a way that is so humiliating was troubling. let's put it that way. i'm trying to be as nice as i can. >> i mean, degrading. degrading for anybody to do that. it's degrading for all the republicans that have done that in the past to do it. it's unbelievable. at the beginning of the campaign we saw tim scott on the stump, we talked about how good he was. he didn't do that well in debates, but he was great on the stump and we said time and again that's a guy that can be the future of the republican party. he's got a great message, people liked him. a lot of people were talking early. he stumbled through some debates, that hurt him, but to

see somebody who started his campaign the way he did as well as he did and to end it that way, yeah, i mean, for anybody that would be especially humiliating. katty, the "wall street journal" this morning is saying, yes, donald trump won but there are warning signs all over the place, red lights flashing all over the place. you have a guy that did very well -- i say "very well", he got 75% of republicans, 75% of republicans, everybody was talking about barack obama if he ran as an incumbent now, he got like 98%. so trump got three out of four republicans, but couldn't even get to 40% with independents. that's the story of his life. i don't know if you've seen this pennsylvania poll that came out yesterday, those are some exit polls talking about people that were voting for donald trump, but there's a pennsylvania poll that is the latest of several that show what's happening in the key swing state of

pennsylvania. donald trump losing considerably. and you notice biden staying at 47%. trump is bleeding votes and bleeding independents especially. the numbers between biden and trump with independents in pennsylvania striking. we're going to see that of course not only in pennsylvania, we'll see it in wisconsin, we'll see it by the end in michigan and we certainly are seeing it in new hampshire. >> so the biden theory of the case is this is the high water mark for donald trump because so far he's been on friendly territory. iowa friendly territory for him, even new hampshire, this is all about the republicans and now they will start to turn their dollars and their focus and their campaign energy, and we saw the campaign shakeup in the white house just yesterday, right on donald trump. as soon as he is the nominee effectively which they pretty much believe he is now, they can target their energies against him and that drop in

pennsylvania of 6 percentage points without donald trump having been yet the nominee, without him having had all of that opposition attacks from the white house is a significant drop. i do think that that moment in the -- i thought the reverend is right, the moment where tim scott volunteers to come forward and say how much he loves donald trump, the gracious thing of course to do would be to say, i don't hate nikki haley, but i'm in your team, i just support your policies. he didn't take that opportunity. and the moment where he criticizes nikki haley's dress and says, well, it's a fancy dress but maybe it's not that fancy, i think that's a problem for him with women voters. i don't think women voters like to hear other women's clothes being criticized like that in a way that is ungracious and kind of mean. i think those numbers in, you know, philadelphia and milwaukee and atlanta of suburban women voters, the actual voters who decide american elections and have done for the last five elections, it's going to be

interesting to see. if he carries on these attacks against nikki haley, nikki haley as a woman is a difficult target for him and if he carries on these attacks against her in that very personal kind of mean-spirited way i think that's a problem for him and it writes the ads for the biden campaign for themselves. >> it really is. i think the greatest danger here, mika, is what happens over the next month. donald trump is already getting shaky. he's like, you know, the rev used to go see fights with -- where donald trump was, but, you know, it's like a heavyweight fight. >> yeah. >> where trump -- trump is taking it to the jaw here. he's getting shaky. he's dazed. he thinks that the president of the united states right now is barack obama. he thinks he's beaten barack obama. he thinks we're moving towards world war ii. he thinks that nikki haley was the speaker of the house on january 6th. he's rattled right now.

that draws a concern, as katty said, with these key places that decide elections. but then you take a month of attacks against a woman, let me tell you something, running against a woman is far different than running against a man. >> well, he's done it before. hoda kotb. >> -- hillary clinton. >> i know. know. and the fact is they're going to see -- and going after nikki haley him attacking a fellow republican, him attacking a woman and it's going to hurt him as katty said over the next month, it's going to hurt him in suburbs of atlanta, the suburbs of philly, the suburbs of detroit, the suburbs of milwaukee. all the suburbs that matter the most. and also just look at him, you know, people have talked about it, claire talked about it. look how orange he is. i know he's always orange. he's just not looking good. he's caking on makeup, he's sweating, he's out of control.

and republicans know this. they talk about it. he's out of control and as the governor of new hampshire said, a republican with approval ratings over 60%, 20% higher than donald trump in that state, he's lost more than one step. he's lost several steps. he's a guy that's moving towards 80 and you can tell. it happens to all of us. it's happened to our parents and it's happening to donald trump right now. >> so, alexei, your latest piece for the "washington post" is entitled "how much does nki haley's gender matter?" you wrote the next president must not offend the republican pay's masculine sense i object. the former u.n. ambassador has presenterself as a bad-ass woman who wears high heels as ammunition. haley has to be cautious about how and when she brings up her gend and she deserves credit for how she has imaged the balancing act. we really should be talking

about how wild it is that a woman is trump's bigst primary threat rightnow. the gop is not exactly for the girlees. republicans have been especially unpopular with women in the post roe era. haley likely won't be the 2024 nominee, but her campaign has revealed a hopef space for non-maga women in the gop. the question now is will the republican party welcome more troublemaker women like representative marjorie taylor greene or those with broader appeal like haley? >> who can actually win national elections. >> and is showing that she's going to hang in there, alexei. i mean, i think nikki haley now know that the gloves are off. trump has threatened and will follow through on that with a lot of nasty stuff in the days and weeks to come and nikki haley has decided to stay in the race, basically saying, bring it

on. >> and that's, you know, followed, as i write in the piece, this sort of tough persona she's put forward this entire primary. when trump brings up her gender or her clothes that's him focusing more on her as a woman than she has ever done. when she brings it up, she brings it up as a way to stand up to the guys. she was the sole female voice on the republican stages when you know that abortion restrictions were a big part of the discussion, that matters for a number of reasons. we see how women get under trump's skin in a particularly unique way. we saw that last night. and haley is right now asking donald trump to debate her on stage and instead what is he doing? he's being a keyboard warrior, sitting at home, posting on truth social about her because he won't stand on the same stage as her. as i mentioned, i mean, i think it's kind of remarkable that the same republican electorate that really doesn't care that donald trump is literally in court

right now for a defamation case, he's defending himself against with e. jean carroll who a jury found him liable for sexual assaulting in the '90s, that same electorate is also looking to a woman as their second choice right now. yes, it's a mix of soft republicans, independents and otherwise and we've only had two states so far, but she is the last one standing when it could have been any number of those other men. and that is just a really remarkable and interesting dynamic that is happening right now. >> and, again, at this moment her campaign is promising to continue at least to super tuesday. they want to see michigan before super tuesday and then see what they can do in states with more independent voters like new hampshire. john, let's look at this from the other side of the biden campaign from the white house, a couple top advisers moving out of the white house to the campaign in delaware now, people that biden really trusts, close advisers. what are they thinking as they watch iowa first and now new hampshire? >> mike don land, biden's longest serving aide, has a mind

meld with the president is moving over, to bolster leadership already in place in wilmington. they see this race as over. they will happily take nikki haley hanging around for a month to take more shots at donald trump, reaching republican voices, perhaps fox news viewers who would never listen to a democrat but might listen to nikki haley at least a little bit. but they think this race is over, they think it's been over for a long time. this is trump versus biden is frankly the matchup they wanted. yes, of course there are worries, there are a lot of democrats who believe the stakes of this race are that much higher. donald trump poses much more of a threat to the nation's democracy than any other republican would, but they also feel like biden is particularly well-suited to beat him. he's done it once before and they look at the numbers and they see even around the margins the idea that independents and swing voters even in iowa and new hampshire do not seem particularly interested in donald trump. it's a hard case to make that he would lure more of those from 2020. what has he done to win them back one aide put to him

yesterday? fostered insurrection. yes, there are vulnerabilities for the biden campaign, people not feeling about the economy though it is getting better, his age, concerns with the base and enthusiasm. but they feel like a little bit here about independents and even if one of his legal cases but not be a game changer but enough along the margin that's going to be a tight race that tips a couple battle grounds democrats way, that's enough. >> and, by the way, consumer confidence going up fast. if it keeps going in this direction, it will catch up. >> anything could happen. >> i mean, the economy, a lot of -- a lot of people just feel really good about where they are economically and where they're going. you just look at the data, if you just look at the numbers, you push aside the bs that a lot of networks and websites push on people, lying about how bad things are going, the economy is doing very well and consumer

confidence going up quickly. so it seems to me right now as jonathan brought up a couple hours ago, right now it's just -- it's like his most progressive base. i think his problem right now more than anything is israel and what's happening in gaza and that's the biggest challenge to the base. it's got to be taken care of. >> and it's complicated. >> well, it's complicated, but then again, it's not that complicated when it comes to separating himself from netanyahu. he can be pro-israel, but separate himself -- and i would say dramatically now from a guy who wants to undermine all efforts for long-lasting peace in that region. the "washington post" alexi mccammond, thank you very much. we will read your new piece online for the paper. thanks for being on this morning.

coming up on "morning joe," after donald trump dominated in the new hampshire primary, businesses are now bracing for what's to come in he secures the nomination. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin will join us on how wall street is grappling with that reality if trump returns to the white house. you're watching "morning joe."

this morning wall street is bracing for donald trump to be the republican nominee, and what it could mean for the american business community. let's bring in the co-anchor of ""squawk box"" andrew ross sorkin. >> andrew, so good to have you here. i'm looking at a financial times

column by ed luce who talks about how "the financial times" had nothing but rosy things to say about fascism in italy in the 1930s and how great it was for business. he now moves to now wall street seems to be capitulating to the possibility of donald trump. he quotes jamie dimon, talks about the chamber of commerce's turn around, he talks about other business leaders. who after january 6 like kevin mccarthy and others said, this is despicable, we want to have nothing to do with it. now they're saying, trump, biden, what's the difference? >> i think -- i don't want to say they are trying to get practical. i think most of them actually don't want trump to be the president is the truth, but i think they also don't want biden to be the president. i actually heard even in the last couple hours from a number of well-known titans who desperately would love a third-party candidate to emerge, maybe a manchin, someone from

sort of a no labels kind of situation. i don't know if we think that that's going to happen, but i do think there's also a capitulation and not just a capitulation, a sense that trump, if you look at the polls, may very well win this. and if he does, i think a lot of them are afraid, afraid of speaking out or saying, this is a problem, because they don't know what would happen to them under a president trump presidency. meaning they are -- they are fearful this time around of retribution. i also think they don't really make a big distinction between what would happen to the economy, which is to say, you know, taxes aren't going to go that much lower. you know, whatever they thought was some kind of trump bump before may not occur. so i think that they look at biden and trump and almost think that they are interchangeable because a lot of them don't like biden, either, and i know that -- >> but stop with what you just said right there. it's lunacy.

they think biden and trump are interchangeable. >> yes. >> as ed luce points out. as we all know and as they said themselves, donald trump tried to overthrow the united states government and tried to upend the stability that is allowing the dow to reach record highs -- >> i'm not disagreeing with you, joe. >> i know. i know. but i'm just saying i'm talking to some of them who are listening. you're out of your -- >> minds. >> -- mind if you think that -- because this is what -- and ed makes a great point. they're like, you know, everybody said trump was going to be so bad, but look where we are right now. we survived four years of trump, we can do it again. yeah, we survived -- >> some people didn't. >> -- because donald trump tried to overthrow the government and he failed. he will not fail next time to be an autocrat. this is the lunacy of wall

street. >> well, look, i would also say there is a hypocrisy to it because if you remember there was a big full-page ad taken out in the "new york times" around voting rights, it wasn't just about january 6 where a lot of the ceos decried what president trump did, but around voting rights there was a big ad and many, many, many ceos, hundreds of ceos signed on to this saying that there was a voting rights problem in america. well, if you believe there was a voting rights problem in america at that time, it is hard to believe that you can support president trump today. maybe that's a personal opinion, but i think that's the case, but none of those people who signed on to those full-page ads we read about several years ago are now signing on to full-page ads against trump and i don't think you will see full-page ads against trump ever. part of that also, by the way, is the pushback that you saw -- by the way, started with desantis to some degree where the disneys of the world and some of the big corporations

felt that they were getting all this pushback on being, too, quote, unquote, woke, we can debate on what woke means, but some businesses feel things they were outspoken about they cannot be outspoken about anymore. >> it's absolutely crazy. hey, the biden campaign is talking about a quick rise, a fast rise in consumer confidence. talk about that, if you will. you know, don't tell us what it will mean for the election. just let's just talk about consumer confidence and how it's actually seemingly catching up with reality. >> i don't know if we have a chart on that, but it is catching up in a very big way, just last month up 29%. you're really starting to see what they call green chutes in the stock market. we talked about it yesterday, the idea that the stock market is indicating where the economy is going to be 12 months from now. people seem to think if you look at where we are, all-time highs, guess what, that the economy will be in better shape and

you're starting to see that confidence come through in all of the surveys and i think probably even in consumer sales. we will see whether that holds up, of course, and there's questions about what the fed is going to do or not, but yesterday i mentioned i do know we have this chart, this idea that there's a myth that somehow the stock market historically does better under a republican. in fact, it's the exact opposite, you can go back to president clinton and beyond and you can look at the red and the green -- the red and the blue, rather, and it's very clear what's happened. in fact, in every single instance the stock market has done better under a democrat. now, you can say covid happened and you can say that financial crisis happened, but those things did happen under republican presidents, which made the market a much more complicated situation. i say that -- i mean, i'm trying to bring that nuance to this conversation only because i'm sure i will get tweets and texts from people saying i can't believe you didn't acknowledge

that those things happened, but those things did happen under republican presidents. what would have happened if those would have happened under democratic presidents, i don't know. but nonetheless i think the history is pretty clear. >> yeah, history is very clear. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you once again. >> thank you, andrew. so nikki haley and ron desantis have both recently called out fox news for what they see as favoring coverage of donald trump. here is desantis speaking in iowa a few days before that state's caucuses, followed by nikki haley, challenging fox news hosts yesterday in new hampshire. >> he's got basically a guard of the conservative media, fox news, you know, the websites, all the stuff. they just don't -- they don't hold him accountable because they're worried about losing viewers and they don't want to have the ratings go down and that's just -- that's just the reality, that's just the truth. >> what do you mean by that, for example, do you want to be within -- i know you want to win, but is within five points of the former president, is that

a strong showing? >> you know, at the end of the day you guys are going to be talking about what a strong showing is or not. i don't know if you will tell the truth but i think at the end of the day if you look at the fact that, yes, we are down, i have one for fella in the race, i didn't get here by luck. >> and, again, you know, katty, those are words that republicans wouldn't have said in the past. i think they're shocked that fox is so quickly moved, in their opinion -- and ron desantis in his campaign actually said even tougher things than what we played right there about how fox news has capitulated and has just become cheerleaders for donald trump. of course, democrats have always said that, but now you have republican candidates, some of the top republican candidates. and with desantis you have actually the most popular republican in america if you just look at approval ratings, right behind trump. when he's saying that, when

nikki haley is saying that, i tell you what, it's really turning -- it's really turning into an us against them. like fox and trump news against, i don't know, 33% of the republican electorate, 40% of the republican electorate. it's striking. >> i mean, it's so interesting to see how the party and fox news have changed since 2016 when there was a much more robust -- at this stage certainly in the race there was a much more robust critique and analysis of donald trump and his ability to become president of the united states and there is today and nikki haley and ron desantis who have been, you know, up close and personal with this expressing that kind of dissatisfaction, i think it picks up a little bit on what andrew was just saying is that there is a sense that donald trump is going to be the candidate, he has an odd -- you know, 50/50 chance at the moment because elections are going to be tight of being the next president of the united states

and they don't want to get on his wrong side. they see what retribution looks like for people who stand up against -- we saw it last night in his speech about nikki haley. you see what retribution looked like, the kind of threats that he can make against other candidates or against employed i can't outlets and they're making a strategic commercial decision in the same way andrew was saying that american business leaders were making that strategic personal decision, you know, in davos to come out and saying donald trump, joe biden, we're fine with either. >> it's about a cynical sense of inevitability. let's recall of course the murdoch family has no deep love for donald trump the person as much as they helped his rise. we know from detailed reporting they were eager to turn the page on trump, especially after those 2022 midterms and for a time it seemed like desantis was getting the favorable press coverage, but as soon as trump regained his grip on the republican party and it could be traced almost exactly to when the criminal indictments came down and the rest of the gop, including his rivals for the nomination,

rallied around him, well, fox did, too, and a lot of the conservative media simply followed suit. there's no question nearly every day, joe and mika, we sort of mention at least in passing how whether it's a sean hannity or someone on "fox and friends" "is trying to guide trump through a friendly interview." they have protected him and they also are almost -- they are the lone source of news for a significant portion of this country, republican voters, and that's why they are so latched to donald trump even as independents have questions. >> you know, it's so fascinating. there was some talk for a long time around the murdochs, about who they wanted to support. you heard for quite some time there was the governor of virginia, then it was ron desantis, and now they have ended up where most republican voters ended up after iowa and new hampshire.

so fascinating. again, fascinating parts not that people are saying this, it's that it's the top republicans on the national stage that are saying it. so fascinating. let's bring in democratic governor tim walz of minnesota, he is out campaigning for the biden/harris campaign. thanks for being with us. when we look at the states that are going to make the difference in the race, in the electoral college, we look at minnesota, we look at wisconsin, we look at michigan, we look at pennsylvania. we just saw the president is doing well in pennsylvania. he's holding his own in wisconsin. what's the story in your home state? >> well, thanks for having me. well, joe biden will win here in minnesota. he's delivering on the issues they care about. he will be out here tomorrow with governor evers from wisconsin and the federal government putting money into the bridge connecting duluth. i heard you speaking earlier on

this. donald trump may run up the score in south dakota but he's losing minnesota, will lose wisconsin, will loz michigan and pennsylvania and that blue wall will hold because he's doing the things necessary and the alternative is chaos and retribution as you saw last night. so we're excited, doing the work, saying in our lane and excited to get the president reelected. >> i love talking to governors because they know what's going on on the ground in their states, if they are good governors like you. what is -- what is -- what is the issue that you hear about the most? what are voters most concerned about? is it inflation? is it personal home savings? is it infrastructure? what's the issue that you're hearing right now on the ground? >> yeah, it's a combination of those things, joe. people care and they're seeing prices, i was up in duluth yesterday, saw gas for $2.49, you're starting to see those things moderate. wages are up. we have low unemployment. look, with the trump people out

there and the republicans rooting for failure, they will never say something is working. we talk about job growth. oh, it's bad, or something like that. i think this general sense of they don't want the chaos and they want a positive vision for the future. i think that's now as we pivot and we start to see the -- you know, this general election shape up to be the binary choice we have all been talking about is, do you want chaos, negativity, doom and gloom, american apocalypse or do you want to say what joe biden said, this is the united states of america, there is nothing we can't do. i think this idea of building the economy out, creating jobs, coming and announcing a bridge project, the largest one we have seen in the north land in history, those are exciting things. people want to feel more secure both in their finances, they want to feel more secure in terms of how their politics is working. so i think that bodes well for the president. >> yeah, i agree on those fronts.

obviously republicans are going to talk about quality of life issues, they're going to talk about crime, they're going to talk about homelessness, they're going to talk about the southern border. let's talk about crime and homelessness. and i do think in places like new york where crime is going down there is -- there is a sense that there's not as much security on the streets in part because you have people with mental illness that are out on the streets and places like houston controlling it very well and "new york times" wrote a great article about some of their solutions, but it requires investment. i'm curious in your state, in minneapolis, in st. paul and some of the cities, how are you guys doing with crime, how are you doing with the homelessness problem? how is that impacting the cities and the quality of life there?

>> yeah, and you're right, joe, and this is where i think democrats we do talk about this, we need to. people deserve to be safe in their person and we also know that folks fall on tough times, you know, by the grace of god goes each of us to try to find shelter. when you are in a northern state it's a life or death situation. >> right. >> we are talking about it, crime is going down, we saw the spike both here in the united states, here in minnesota and across the country or across the globe during the pandemic. those numbers are coming down but we in minnesota have a very low tolerance for crime. it's not good enough to say they're coming down, it's getting much safer. we want to see it get to as low as it can possibly get. the irony is, we see this time and time again and you can add immigration to this, that is an issue that needs to be addressed. the issue here is republicans will do nothing to fix it. we have house republicans that had a proposal from the president, won't fix it. so here in minnesota i put a $300 million proposal of fungible dollars for public safety out in our budget and we see republicans vote against

that. so it's the idea that i don't think they really want to fix it. i think we do something about crime, it moves on to something else. and this homelessness issue is a big deal. we put over a billion dollars in a state that has about a 26, $27 billion budget. this has to be addressed. home affordability and the interesting thing, both crime and homelessness, joe, it hits in the rural areas just as hard and in many cases it's even more difficult of a challenge because you don't have the resources to deal with it. i think of trying to divide this, trying to say our cities you can't live this them, we have to address mental health, we have to address gun violence. look, i am a hunter, a 24-year veteran of the military, i own firearms, but it's absolutely outrageous that we continue to see these shootings. i agree, these are things that are on people's minds. they're improving, but we need republicans to come back and help us on some of this. >> yeah, it's just like whether we are talking about in

minnesota, whether we are talking about in congress, when solutions are offered, whether it's what you're trying to do on homelessness and crim public safety or the southern border, they would rather have an issue than a solution. it's a sad state of affairs. minnesota's democratic governor tim walz, thank you for being here. i hope you will come back soon. >> anytime, joe. thank you. all right. thank you, governor. coming up, a conversation about racism and medicine. our next guest is an emergency physician who is calling attention to the issue with a new book and she joins us to talk about it straight ahead. it's fascinating. "morning joe," we will be right back with that. ascinating "morning joe," we will be right back with that i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy.

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with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. welcome back to "morning joe." as we come up on 9:49 a.m. here on the east coast, a new book is sounding the alarm on how communities of color are being left behind in the american health care system. in "legacy: a black physician reckons with racism in medicine"

dr. blackstock shines a list on the historical and ongoing racism in the medical field and its harmful impact on communities. she also shares several of her own deeply personal experiences, including a nearly fatal case of appendicitis that was initially misdiagnosed. dr. blackstock joins us now, she is also an emergency medical physician and founder and chief executive of advancing health equity which aims to engage with health care organizations to dismantle racism, a family face to "way too early" viewers. congratulations on the book. tell us a little bit if you will about some of these personal experiences that motivated you congratulations on the book. tell us a little bit about some of these personal experiences that motivated you to explore this topic and then write this book. >> thank you so much for having me. i think what's important to note is i am a second generation black woman physician, and to say that is incredibly rare.

less than 3% of all physicians are black women. so i'm in a sense a unicorn but that is because of systemic barriers that exist. i share some personal experience, losing my mother by the age of 47 to a blood cancer that is very rare and think about how the impact of racism could have shortened her life. i also had my own experiences with appendicitis that went misdiagnosed after three er visits that led to a perforated appendix, as a medical student leading me to miss a month of medical school. a lot of personal experiences you used to talk about these larger systemic issues. >> one of the things that grips me about the book is not only do you talk about your personal health challenges and the systemic problem of racism in the medical field, but it's in your blood to fight and deal with these things. your mother, i'm from brooklyn,

you're from brooklyn, your mother used to do a lot of health work, clinics, fairs in the brooklyn community when there was hardly any idea of black women being a physician. now you and your sister are carrying that on and the experience of that. talk about how the systemic racism was something you grew up with, committed to dealing with, and how your mother helped pioneer that is and what it means to you. >> thank you for having about that, reverend al. my mother led a small group of black women physicians in central brooklyn that organized community health fairs, checked blood pressure, linked patients with physicians to help manage their diabetes. they were doing this grass roots work when health equity did not even have that term. so they were addressing the consequences of racism in the '80s and '90s in our communities in a grass roots way when we weren't openly discussing it like we are now. i really wanted to shine a light

on that. now we're seeing the black maternal mortality crisis. we're seeing that black mothers are three to four times more likely to die of pregnancy-related complications. but even me with my college degree and medical degree from harvard, i'm still five times more likely to die of pregnancy-related complications than my white counter parts, so these are the issues we need to talk about. there is nothing inherently wrong with black people, but there's something inherently wrong with the systems that we live in that essentially make us sick and lead to our shortened lives. >> truly terrible statistics. dr. black stock, katty kay has the next question. >> thank you for the writing the book, i love the word legacy because it's also part of your family's amazing legacy to have three doctors in one family is remarkable, especially when there are so few black female doctors in the country. talk a little bit about how -- you look in the book at the history of the medical system, how there were really no opportunities for black people to learn medicine because there weren't medical schools that admitted black people in

american history and how that, the legacy of that impacts the kinds of -- the kinds of data that you've just spoken about and the disparities between black and white people. >> thank you so much for asking that question. we look at today and say why are there so few black doctors, and that's because of reports and policies like the flex report in 1910 that led to the closure of historically black medical schools. five out of seven medical schools that would have trained between 25,035,000 black doctors. we think about this recent scotus decision on race conscious in additions and how that could have a similar gakt on the diversity of our health care work force. >> the new book titled "legacy: a black physician reckons with racism in medicine" is now on sale. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, jonathan, thank

you, reverend al. >> joe, as we wrap up here the morning after the new hampshire primary, let's do some final thoughts as to where you think that race stands right now? >> i want to do final thoughts. i do want to say to reverend al, though, really quickly about this extraordinarily important book. you know, rev, there are some things that white guys like me, you know, 6'4", you know, big, you know, whatever, imposing. i walk into an emergency room and i'm going to be treated a certain way. and i think the importance about this book is there are things we, white people just aren't going to understand. i'm not saying this. as you know, i'm not politically correct, i'm not saying this for any other reason than it's the truth, and for people who want to deny that truth, they're the past. i think it's so important. it's just like when i talk to gene robinson about what he had to tell his sons, you know, when he gave them the keys and said,

son, when you go out there, these are the things you have to -- the talk to his sons that i've never had to give to my sons. it's so important for all of us to see this. >> i think it's very important. i think it's very important, and for you to address it i think is important because people didn't understand it's just not people having grievances. to be treated differently on a level of something that is inescapable, your health, is scary at best, and the other thing to accept it, one of the things that dr. blackstock and i and others have had to deal with is those of us in the community having to tell people you've got to be concerned about your health. when i started working out every morning and doing things, people were saying what are you doing? are you acting white? no, i'm acting healthy. we're supposed to be healthy. so it's just as bad to be discriminated against. it's as bad to accept that you're not supposed to be

healthy. >> yeah, and treated differently. just treated differently in so many different areas. so jonathan, i'm going to throw it back to you, and i'm going to ask you and katty, where are we after last night in new hampshire? >> i think that we have donald trump being on the verge of being the republican nominee with taking a significant -- there would have to be a significant upset for that to change. maybe that's a supreme court decision down the road. maybe it's a month or two where nikki haley stays in the race. as much as he triumphs in the republican party, he's also exposed real vulnerabilities in the upcoming general election rematch like president biden. >> the more he gives speeches like the kind of speech he gave, his victory speech in new hampshire last night, i think the more he exposes those vulnerabilities. he is going to be the nominee. it's almost impossible to see how he isn't, but this month will be interesting if she stays in the race to see how she chips away some of that support that he might have picked up otherwise because of what he says in response to her.

>> exactly. and rev, is he going to be able to hold it together? >> well, it's a real question because the last few times we've seen his outings, i think he's really losing it, and i'm not just saying this as somebody who is not a fan of his. and then for him on a day that we are dealing with the week of dealing with the anniversary of roe versus wade, he's taking credit for overturning it. he's making misogynistic statements about the dress of nikki haley when he's, of course, no fashion model. i mean, we got used to him wearing suits he couldn't button the jacket and he's talking about somebody's dress, i think he's really losing it, and i think he'll be his own worst enemy. >> yeah, and boy, i'll tell you what, him running around bragging about terminating roe v. wade repeatedly, expect to see that on your tvs, on tiktok,

on instagram reels between now and the election. that does it for us this morning. thank you so much for sticking with us for four hours. ana cabrera and josé diaz-balart pick up the coverage in two minutes. ck up the coverage in t minutes. i feel refreshed because i am not struggling with cpap anymore. she looks great. i got inspire. great sleep at the click of a button. did she get implants? yeah, i got an implant, sheila!! it's inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com you may know adam schiff's work learn more and view important safety information to protect the rule of law, or to build affordable housing, or write california's patients bill of rights. but i know adam through the big brother program. we've been brothers since i was seven. he stood by my side as i graduated from yale, and i stood by his side when he married eve,

the love of his life. i'm a little biased, but take it from adam's little brother. he'll make us all proud as california senator. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. not just any whiteboard... ...katie porter's whiteboard is one way she's: [news anchor] ...often seen grilling top executives of banks, big pharma, even top administration officials. katie porter. never taken corporate pac money - never will. leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks”