going to hold if she can try somebody else on april 27bd. >> if this happens in the middle of the summer, you have the republican convention in august. there's a possibility that donald trump might be on trial during that convention. could he go to the convention or would he have to go to the trial? the judge said his political campaign is secondary to this legal case ands it's unclear if she would let him go to that instead of being in court. >> that will be up to her whether she wants to make that decision. she's hoping it doesn't come the to that. she can try him in either late april or early may. >> the timeline gets tricky going forward. thank you. we're all watching the d.c. court of appeals. that's it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hey, everyone. it's 4:00 here in washington, d.c. there's a good chance that we may look back at last night as the beginning of the end of the republican presidential primary. the start of a general election

campaign is going to be unlike any other. yes, the new hampshire primary was a decisive win for donald trump. the kind of win that squashes any momentum for his one remaining challenger nikki haley. but buried in the results are also some very hard truths about americans' views of donald trump, trumpism and the state of our democracy. as the bull work put it today, nikki haley has beaten donald trump in iowa. two groups of voters would be deciding the presidential nomination. the first group is a republican primary and caucus voters who acknowledge that tmp legitimately lost the 2020 presidential election. the second group, which overlaps with the first, is republican primary and caucus voters who accept that if trump were to be convicted of a crime, it would be unfit to serve as president. exit polling from nbc news shows that while the republican base may have stuck with trump, just

13% of hah lee voters said they would be satisfied with trump's winning the gop nomination. he wouldn't be fit to serve as president kwibted of a crime. we're talking about voters like this. >> i voted for nikki haley because i was voting against donald trump. >> what propelled you? >> i want to -- i have lived in the constitutional democracy all my life. i want to remain that way. and i want my grandchildren to grow up in one. >> the outcome making it all the more likely it will fall on democrats to assemble voters about the threat posed by an ex-president who has made his campaign about his legal woes and disdain for the rule of law. that's where we start today with the cofounder and executive director of protect democracy. plus charlie sykess, and here at

the table, rf of politic asks journalism at morgan state university and host of the podcast "a word"ohnson joins us. thank you so much for being here. let's start with you. you looked at these results. what stuck out to you? >> nikki haley lost there was no spried here. but donald trump performing so poorly with independent voters as to make democrats happy. the fact that you had people -- that woman is not the only person that says i don't want this man to become president. if that is an attitude that's the feeling, maybe even just 5% of republican voters, if they have now got to be a point where this guy is gross and disgusting and they happen to be in pennsylvania and michigan and georgia, then this is a very good sign for joe biden. but again, this pras is not over by any means. and i mean the presidential race because we still months more for them to convince america to be

excited about this. >> you me, me, we are all on the same page here. which is last night, we're not talking about the horse race. we're not talking about some normal election. we're talking about the fate of democracy as we know it. that's why this is interesting to us. that's why those exit polls were interesting to us. when you look at those numbers, when you look at those two groups that nikki haleys was able to carry in two states, what does that tell you about a general election matchup that could be donald trump and joe biden? >> donald trump is a disaster for the republican party in every election basically since 2016. because there remains a pro democracy coalitio that cuts across democrats, independents, republicans, progressives and conservatives. but that doesn't change the incredible can danger that we face because as new hampshire voters were sending a pretty clear signal that they didn't really like the republican front runner, elected republicans continue to line up behind donald trump, even some of the senate holdouts like john

cornyn, jeff fisher, cast their endorsements for trump recently. even though this president has launched a pilot insurrection to try to overthrow the will of voter, he's not paying as much of a consequence within his party as he should. as every parent know, if your child steals cookies from the cookie jar and rather than face consequences they are celebrated by their friends and the parents say, hey, that's okay, no problem. they are going to do it again. and not only are they going to take the cookies, but they are going to take the bank account and the mattress too. >> i will take that to heart. let's talk about trump's speech from last nit. i'm not going to play it for you, but here's how axios reported it. ironically, trump repeated many of his false claims abouts past elections, including that he won new hampshire in 2020 while calling haley delusional for acting as if she had a good night. demanding she drop out, trump

said she would be under investigation if she won. suggesting that there are skeletons in haley's closet that she doesn't want to talk about. it's a torrid of lies, baseless claims, questions about his acuity. yes, to that point, it is donald trump. no real surprises there. and yet also a reminder, he's not changing his tune as he gets to a general election in order to try to persuade a different group of voters. >> it was a bitter and it was vindictive. it was donald trump, the man in full. and behind him was all over the fellow republicans who are applauding him and it's not propelled him to nomination. but now we have this very significant given. the things he's been able to say and do and be rewarded in a republican primary are going to play very differently. to the point that we have been making here, iowa and new hampshire voters have been

paying close attention. they have been watching what donald trump is doing. there's a very large portion of that electorate, moderates and independents, republicans who were repelled by donald trump. we now need -- as opposed to continue to be obsessed with the maga hard core types and the focus groups, we need to pay more attention to these swing voters who may or may not know all the things that donald trump has been saying that he's been promising and donald trump is convinced himself he can say and do anything. there will be no kobs kwenss. there are no consequences in this republican party. but it is far from clear there will be no consequences where millions of people are tuning in and they are going to be watching this guy maybe they have become numb or forgotten who he is, but donald trump is going to remind them over and over and over again over the next couple months.

that's a whole new phase of this campaign. >> trump also suggesting that the only way president biden would win is, quote f they cheat. he's clearly already setting the stage to deny the election results. again, i wonder this far out what can be done preemptively, legally to prepare for what seems like an inept evidentable reality. >> i'm a yankees fan, so it's like deja vu all over den. this is what he did in the lead up to 2020 that caused thousands of people to storm our capitol and interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. and there's this fantasy out there that if somehow we simply let donald trump run in the election and voters cast at the ballot box that everything is going to go swimmingly. he's proven that's not how it plays out because he's not fundamentally committed to letting voters decide. he's not committed to letting juries render a verdict. he's not willing to let people run against him. our constitution has a provision in it to deal with people like

that. in section 3 of the 14th amendment, which the supreme court will consider, it prevents people who have violated an oath to our constitution, who have engaged in insurrection against this country from allowing that whole cycle to play out again. that's where it's truly dangerous for our country. >> what you are doing is reminding us there are guardrails. the section 3 of the 14th amendment among them, there are guardrails like the power of the representatives to ill peach. and yet none of these guardrails seem to have been able to contain him. so i think what i'm hearing from you is if we get to this point, where donald trump is a republican nominee and donald trump runs against president trump president biden and he loses and he, as you said, repeats history and goes back to square one and says it was an unfair election, calls his sporters to come to his aid, we will have to look at ourselves as a country and ask why none of

those guardrails were utilized and why none of those guardrails held. >> i do think that there are a lot lot of ways they have done a good job. they have done a good job. . let's remember it is rare and unique in list of international experience for an autocrat to rise to the highest office in the land and then leave at the end of their first term. typically, that does not happen. that happened here in the united states. so that's one way our guardrails have proven resilient. but another is we're having a conversation here about what a weak candidate donald trump is. just how many people in his own party are is voting against him. s also because he's been indicted 91 times. he's twice impeached. these consequences while they may not have delivered a knockout blow, it's important to remember while the danger is acute and real, authority

taintism thrives on a sense of hopelessness, on a sense that nothing matters. and democracy thrives on a sense that everything is possible. and everything that has been done, like all the actors standing up for our democracy over the last several years, has mattered tremendously and will continue to matter as every reason for people to continue to engage and playing the role of active citizens because ultimately we will be republic as benjamin franklin said if you can keep it. we have started a place that you can keep it where people the can stay abreast and remain engage ed citizens and stand up for our democracy over the critical next couple months. >> if you were choosing to see the glass as half empty, i will choose to see it with you. but it will take more than hope. it will take organization. it will take a coalition of voters. yohave the biden campaign saying they have a plan to take on trum "the wall street journal" reporting biden's campaign team signalled confidence over its ability to draw independent voters.

ey argued that independent voters would avoid him because they stand on key issues. they are concerned about political violence such as the capitol riot and opposed abortion bans. away do you make of that? >> there's nothing new. it's about the fact this is not a the normal election. but what i'm hearing from joe biden over and over is we're going to do normal election stuff. everybody already knows how they feel about these two candidates. it's the rare instance where you have two incumbents running against each other. we know who they are. the issue is not going to be, hey, let's have a better message. the issue is can you keep us safe? can you make sure that people in georgia and texas can vote? can you make sure that if some crazy maga person decides to reenact the third episode of succession that we know how to count the votes, that's what's at stake. the biggest concern that i have about joe biden is not that he's not a good president. he cares it's that he seems

believe these institutions are going to protect us and the best way to stop an insurgency is to vote them out. >> there were people who wanted to hear a democracy argument message from the president. we have heard that. they are doing that in part. >> it's not. the additional protections of people have not been changed. has the president screamed, he can't change it. has he screamed and yelled for reform? has he established the narrative that if this goes to the supreme court, we can't trust him. has he influenced additional people on the post the tall committee to remove hill? he hasn't. so i think joe biden, he's a great president. he's on the right to be reelected. but if had it's going to boil down to who votes for him and not can you protect the votes

and have them counted, he's going to fail. he's not copeting against someone who wants to run a race he's competing about someone that wants to go to war against this country. >> it's both a winning message to that coalition. it's about having something that breaks through with those voters were right now going to nikki haley in a primary who want to see america continue to be a democracy. it's also making sure that the institutions are shored up so every american who wants to cast a vote is able to do so. that's part of the challenge. >> this is one of those elections where it is completely not normal. we need to continue to sound the alarms. i was listening to some of the titans of industry in davos reassuring themselves.

donald trump wouldn't be that bad. there's really no difference between joe biden and donald trump. the authoritarianism thinks either candidate would be good for their bottom line. what we need to have is a concerted campaign to say, no, guys, this is a real threat. this is not anything like the normal election. what the group has done, protect democracy last week came out with the authoritarian playbook 2025, which is i had to say really eye opening for anyone who doubts what the stakes of this election are. i think we do run the risk of a failure of imagination. people not really believing that donald trump is capable of doing what he is saying he's doing. not realizing that a trump 2.0 presidency would be much more dangerous than a trump 1.0 presidency because he's now surrounding himself with an infrastructure and the kinds of

aids who would be willing to implement the kind of authoritarian policies of retribution that he talks about. so we have millions of americans that are thinking, you know what, i don't like joe biden or maybe he's too old. but i think that we need to listen to people like liz cheney who says i may disgrease on policy, but only one of these candidates is going to shred the constitution. so we have to make it absolutely clear that this election is unlike anything we have seen before, at least in this century. and i understand there's an entire campaign out there saying, you people are over caffeinated or sbaj rating. the reality is i don't think that we have the message out yet clearly enough about how dangerous the threat is we face in a few months will be. >> i am both sleep deprived and undercaffeinated. i want to go back to the point you were making about the conditions necessary for this type of autocratic takeover.

the sense of hopelessness, and i want to add to that something we have heard from other experts on this question about how the autocrat sells themselves as inevitable. that's part of what donald trump is out there doing. he's saying it's an inevitable tu he plans to win the general election. these exit polls from iowa and new hampshire really undercut his argument of his own inevitability. they say, look a little closer and there are fissures here. there are weaknesses. this man is anything but inevitable. >> he's been arguing for years he likes winning, winning, winning, but frankly he's been doing a lot of losing, losing, losing. not just in elections, but obviously in a lot of the legal battle thes. and i think that as that further takes hold, it may pierce some

of the sense of inevitability he's trying to project. some of those targets are the business leaders in places like davos. you saw jeremy diamond trying to cozy up to donald trump a few weeks ago because people like dimon are thinking i may have to live with this guy as president. that's remarkably short sided. if you look around the world when autocrats take over, business leaders somehow fall out windows. or they get exiled. they get imprisoned and get businesses taken away. some of these ceos need to stop putting on their short-termism thinking about what do they need in april of 2025 and start thinking more long-termism about what's good for their companies and capitalism. because when they think short-term and they just think about short-term earnings and not the future success of their company, that's how the sides of jets fly out. except this time it's not just alaska airlines. it's the entire country at

stake. >> thank you all so much for getting us started. when we come back, the biden campaign following donald trump declaring the primary is over. and they say they are ready offering voters a clear cut choice to move this had country forward. one of the chairs of the biden campaign joins us next. plus another troubling side for the ex-president from last night. the majority of those republican voters oppose a federal ban on abortion. it's a he proudly boasts about taking away for millions of women. and later in the show, despite these two wins, his nomination is still in question. donald trump's legal challenges continue to hover over this year. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues, after this. "deadline: white house" continues, after this. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming.

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since donald trump and his party oos new establishment appear so eager to fast forward to the general election, let's reintroduce them to the person who stands opposed. the one who beat them so handedly last timearound. as we spk, president biden is on track to win more votes in new hampshire as a write mf in candidate than president obama did when he ran for reelection in 2012. unopposed and on the ballot. after that show of force, it's off to south carolina, a state that injected rocket fuel into his 2016 campaign. biden surrogates are starting a barn storm of that state including gavin newsom campaigning for biden this week across several counties. enhancing the position this afternoon, an earned endorsement from the uaw months after the president famously visited striking workers on the picket

line in the fall. his speech today sounding a lot like a general election message. >> days of people being dealt out of the deal are over in this country as long as i'm president. working people are going to get their fair share. you are earned it. you fought for it. you deserve it. so today you want to say to all of you, thank you, thank you. i could not be more proud or honored that you have chosen to stand with me. >> joining me at the table is cochair for president biden's reelection campaign is mitch landrieu. thank you for being here. this endorsement, how significant? >> it's huge. the message that the president sent today, which is basically that you could not have a

clearer contrast. you have a guy that's full of millionaireses and billionaires, a guy that at the table, versus a guy that grew up at a table with his dad who got laid off. somebody who is going to fight for working men and women every day. i always start these off by saying and reiterating donald trump is unfit to be the president of the united states because democracy itself is at threat. and one of the reasons joe biden ran for office is to preserve and protect democracy. that's one of the reasons he's running again. donald trump is a serious threat when you have people like liz cheney is and charlie sykess and 17 other people thoo worked for him saying i'm throwing out red flags, people should pay attention. this particular endorsement resinates. to make sure we build an economy for working men and women, and he's massive receipts. therein lies a big contrast. >> let's talk about south carolina, a state that's not delivered a victory for a

democrat on the presidential ticket since about 1974. why the investment? >> another big difference between these two guys is donald trump is going to lead a presidency of retribution, revenge, and he's going to be for the rich. >> those aren't your words. those are his. >> he was a bad president before. 's deal people out. but joe biden said i'm for everybody. as you know, i was a senior adviser and help with the infrastructure piece. 40,000 projects, 14 million jobs. the president said to me, go everywhere. talk to everybody. forget about that it's a red state or a blue state. i'm a president for everybody. whether they are for me or against me. if you oppose me, i'm against you. i'm going to punish you. you're not going to see anything like you have seen before.

please ask the judge if it's okay if our sale team six and assassinate my political rivals. that's insane stuff. the contrast is really clear. but the president is going to south carolina. critically important. the south is important. and he's ready for battle. as you said in the opening, when people talk about joe biden, because he's the most underestimated politician in the history of america. there's only one person that beat donald trump. that was joe biden. he did it once. he's absolutely going to do it again. >> i wonder as someone who did work on infrastructure piece, which was one of the crown jewels of the biden administration, when you now see congressional republicans who voted against that piece of legislation, out there claiming credit for the investments in their community, nothing is shocking anymore, but i do wonder going into a general election when it's not just president biden on the ticket. a lot of those folks will be on

the ticket. how you undercut those claims and remind americans who showed up and did the work to get the job done? >> the most important thing to remind people is that joe biden showed up when the country was in the midst of an insurrection. thousands of people were dying from covid, when an economy was spiraling and american citizens were standing outside waiting for food to be given out at schools, and he pulled this country back from the brink. past the bipartisan infrastructure law. passed the inflation reduction act. replace the chips act. bisically have created 145 million jobs. that happened. who decides to take credit for it. it's not nearly as important as joe biden has done something that nobody else has done in the last 50 years in this country. that's i why the country is ready to take off. the stock market is at the highest place it's been. low unemployment. prices are still high, but the president is fighting every day to lower people's prices and

lower the burden on them. he's actually getting after it. and he understands we live in a republican democracy where we honor the rule of law and don't engage in tran call acts and awe tack ra sit. >> donald trump for a long time has been eager to make this a two-person race, to look forward to the general election. is that the biden campaign's position? >> joe biden has had had one of the most successful presidencies we have seen in the last 50 years. so whoever they choose, he's ready to go with. however, it's really clear. donald trump has eviscerated and eliminated the republican party that this country has known forever. that's why you see many conservatives sawing i don't recognize this party. so you recall independents, mainstream republicans, come our way. if you noticed in new hampshire

when you dug underneath the votes, the folks that said we will not vote for dth did dth are open to a joe biden's candidacy and presidency because of the incredible work he's done to put america back on track and ready to take off. >> you did not need to dig that far. thank you for taking the time. still to come, the justice department urging the supreme court not to take away an abortion bill ahead of another huge case later this year. we'll tell you about that and how it fits into the broader push by the white house to protect women's health care, that's next. use to protect women's health care, that's next. d. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

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the dobbs decision practically dared america to be heard. women are not without political power. no kidding. i said at the time, i don't think this maga republicans have any clue about the power of women in america. don't think they have any clue. but they are about to find out. >> a rousing speech from president biden on the importance of the 2024 election for abortion rights. while that virginia audience is fired up, so are republican primary voters in new hampshire. exit polls showed that 67% of republican primary voters yesterday say they oppose a national ban on abortion. the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit

challenging texas's refusal to provide women in medical crises, highlighted the danger of a second term for introducing president biden yesterday. >> my family flew in from across the country for fear i wouldn't pull through. it was in that dark and lonely hospital room where i realized that i was actually lucky. i lived. others wouldn't be so lucky. >> over and over again, brags about killing roe v. wade. it's unthinkable to me that anyone could cheer on these abortion bans that nearly took my life. >> joining our conversation is michelle goodwin. and nbc news washington correspondent yamiche alcindor is here. those exit numbers out of new hampshire, they don't surprise me. i don't think they should surprise anyone who has been

watching what has happened in state after state where voters are coming out and saying a national ban goes too far. >> that's right. it's good to be back with you. and as we have talked about this before, it doesn't comport with history. roe v. wade was a 7-2 opinion. 5 of the 7 justices were republican appointed. justice blackman was pit putt on the court by nixon. then it's no surprise now that there are republicans that are opposed to a national abortion ban. guess what, they don't want these bans in their state. to put this in context, not even in mississippi were they able to pass a referendum. so this is not something that republicans are sitting well with. we can can see that from the ballot initiate i-s. it's not been just democrats voting to abortion rights in their state constitutions.

those have been republican voters also voting in montana and other states to make sure that happens. >> interesting to me that today you have the white house announcing that cay cox is going to be jill biden's guest at the state of the union. they understand they need to keep this issue center stage. >> exactly. and they really are leaning into the idea and the power of personal stories. personal stories of women who they believe their lives were in danger because they were denied abortions. i just came back from wisconsin where the vice president was there telling stories about women who had mischarges in toilets, who were denied access to health care because they were seen as not sick enough to go into septa shock in parking lots in emergencies. they are banking on the idea that women everywhere are going to be bothered by this and dised by this and mobilize them to the polls. it's also the important to underscore in 7 states where we

saw abortion on the ballots, each time people who are in favor of abortion access have won. so this is also something that is on this winning streak. and the vice president said they want to continue that momentum. so i imagine you're going to continue to see that. it's telling that they are going to have that guest. >> interesting about cay cox and the fact that her husband came forward and talked about that. they have been following what's happening in texas, but they had not realized it could potentially apply to someone in cases like theirs. it's women voters in as much as it is men voters paying attention now. when is it you heard from voters? >> the thing that i heard from voters over and over again, i had thought i had an opinion and then when the supreme court decision happened, it really ignited something. so i talked to republican women who said, yeah, i thought i was against abortion access, except as soon as it happened, i realized my body was now going to be told what to do by the government. i talked to some democrats who

said i thought that i was okay with the way democrats have been talking about abortion. i i want to see more of that. i talked to people who said the good they are out talking about this. they need to be explaining to people this is not just about people who want to have abortions for personal reasons just because they don't want to have a child. it's also because there are women who want to have children, but who have medical complications. they also underscored to me in this country, we need to talk about the fact most women who have abortions are already mothers. this idea that the republicans, they are a bunch of women who don't want children, the people getting these abortions are women. that's what i heard. they want to hear more from the president. so i should also note that there are republicans who think that the former president can can win on this issue because despite all the issues, i hear i don't like the way he talks or his character, but i like he delivered on roe. there's the other side of this too. >> that's something he's been pushing on the trail. she referenced the supreme

court. today the doj filed a brief in that case that seeks to ban the most count exxonly used from abortion management. the loss of access to that would be damaging for women and health care providers around the nation. for many paties,t's the best method to lawfully terminate their early pregnancies. they mae may choose that over surgical abortion because of a desire for privacy or past trauma. hard not to focus on the fact if dobbs had happened in 2020 no way the trump doj would be intervening to try to preserve access. >> that's right. so just as a strategic time that we see. the case that's being schedule ed, it's one where a group of antiabortionists have challenged the fda's expansion of the drug in the marketplace. one of the interconveniencers in this happened to be the manufacturer of this particular drug. what is at risk here is

something that is even beyond abortion because basically they are saying that any group that is opposed to what has been a drug that's been put on the market by the fda that it could be challenged. so someone that may not like a covid drug that's in the marketplace, people who are anti-vaxxers could try to get certain vccines out of the marketplace. the argument that's being made is that there was a kind of rush to the marketplace, and that underneath it all, it's unsafe. both of which are not true. the year in which it came into the marketplace, it had been underreviewed nearly three times as long as other drugs that were approved by the fda. in terms of its safety, it's incredibly safe. it's one of the safest drugs in the marketplace. there are 22,000 drugs that the fda allowed to be in the marketplace. it's one of the safest. we know this even the supreme court acknowledged the safety of

abortion and abortion medication as well as surgical abortion. the fact the world health organization say it's as safe as a penicillin shot and the supreme court said it's safer than that. so the very underlying claim that's been made is something that is farcical, but we see that farcical claims with plaintiffs that otherwise wouldn't have standing because they have not been able to show that they have some sort of legitimate injury have now been able to make their way through american courts and now with a case up before the supreme court. >> 30 seconds i want to make sure i get to this new report. more than 64,000 pregnancies have res from rape in the 14 states that banned abortion since roe v. wade was overturned. the vast majority occurring in states that don't make exceptions for rape. even in the states where there are exceptions, we are learning the exceptions often do not hold.

>> it's chilling. what we see today is that there are little girl who is are going into elementary school and middle school now as mothers because they live in states that ban abortion, make no exceptions for rape or incest, and even when there are exceptions, they are so hard to jump over the hurdles. we saw that very recently in texas where there we have the fifth circuit reviewing courts and the state supreme court basically saying that the exceptions that exist just simply don't qualify. even if it is a matter of life and death. so that's the backdrop that we see post dobbs. i'm so glad you continue to raise these issues. >> the stakes could not be higher. thank you both so much. up next, who new york attorney general says donald trump should be compared to. we're going to tell you that, next. to tell you that, next fedex presents tall tales of true deliveries. i needed a miracle...

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donald trump should be banned from the real estate industry for life. that's according to new york attorney general letitia james. the target made by her team in a letter overseeing the civil fraud case. the judge has already ruled that the ex-president has committed fraud. the letter to the judge's office krooited a ruling affirming that the so-called lifetime ban from the pharmaceutical industry.

the ruling presents a ban for his respective industry since the same law is at issue in the civil fraud trial. trump's lawyers responding in the last hour saying that the attorney general's comparison shows her august ration frustration. joining our conversation is legal analyst lisa rubin, who has been covering this case for us since the beginning. do you think that ruling yesterday boosted james' case to ban trump from real estate for life? >> it certain live gave more ammunition with respect to his opinion should he choose to ill pose a lifetime ban. part of the problem here is executive law 6312. that's the new york law under which donald trump is facing claims in the attorney general's civil fraud trial. isn't one that has been litigated extebsively. so inkrooiting this federal appeals court ruling with respect to the lifetime ban, i

don't think james is trying to compare donald trump so muff as provide additional support for the ways in which 6312 can be implemented. and at the closing argument, james' folks said, look at this district court ruling opposing a lifetime ban in the pharmaceutical industry. this is them telling them, hey, that decision we were referring to last month, another judge or a three-judge panel here has upheld that. and it's likely to stick. i think that's powerful. but i also think the letter that the team is likely to backfire legally and yet have good reverberations for them political. >> any sense to expect a ruling? >> the judge said that he wanted to issue an. opinion by january 31st. obviously, we're coming very close to that date. whether he needs his self-imposed dead laineline is unclear. i will be watching next week.

but the most important thing to emphasize for viewers is it's a self-imposed deadline, not one that he has to meet for reasons of any law or regulation. >> i was struck when i'm not texting with you, i'm following you on twitter. you pointed out to us an exchange that happened in that courtroom where there was also a question from the judge of whether or not they thought this was comparable to bernie madoff. one of the things said is we are talking about a heavily regulated industry. we often focus on what this means for donald trump, what this means for his brand, what this means for business his business. there's also the question of the message the that it sends to an entire industry and to other would-be donald trump drifters. >> part of the isn't just to pu the wrongdoers, it is to deter other people contemplating doing wrongdoing themselves. what kevin wallace was saying in that moment is, look, it is similar in the sense that banking is a heavily regulated industry. insurance is a heavily regulated industry. those are the places where

donald trump's fraud allegedly happened, according to the ag. madoff was in the financial industry. similar in that respect. but i want to point out one dissimilarity that doesn't advantage donald trump, it is that bernie madoff profusely apologized and accepted responsibility, when he pled guilty to federal crimes. and we have seen nothing approximating repentance from one donald j. trump. >> i've got about 30 seconds left, lisa. where do you see this case in the larger milieu of trump's cornucopia of legal troubles? >> it is one to vex him along with the e. jean carroll trial still ongoing. why? because trump said in a deposition in april, he has about $400 million in cash on hand. the two judgments between them could wipe out all that cash if enforced. >> lisa rubin, thank you so much for making some time for us. still to come, some house republicans are tossing around the words civil war after a supreme court ruling this week. we'll tell you over what. that's next. we'll tell you over what that's next.

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dispute with texas governor greg abbott over the southern border. the supreme court win is a win for the supreme court for the white house allowing border patrol to cut down the wire that texas officials installed to apprehend migrants and reach injured people to assist them, which for the record is not pretext for a civil war. up next for us, trump's legal case is now really colliding with what looks more like a general election candidate. that and much more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. hen "deadline: white house" continues after this the chewy app has everything for pets. hungry pets,

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you're going to have to allow a president, any president to have immunity so that that

president can act and do what he feels and what his group of advisers feel is the absolute right thing. having immunity is so important and i hope the supreme court has the courage to do that. the supreme court is taking the case from colorado. i fought really hard to get three very, very good people in there, great people, very smart people, and i just hope that they're going to be fair because, you know, the other side plays the ref. >> hi, again, everyone. it is 5:00 here in washington, d.c. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. it is a remarkable place we find ourselves in, the 2024 presidential race is heating up. an individual has won both the iowa caulkcaucuses and the new hampshire primary and his candidacy is very much in doubt because huge legal challenges loom over this campaign. one so large that the u.s. supreme court will have to weigh in. the supreme court which as you know consists of three out of nine justices nominated by trump

himself. there is the question of immunity. trump's claim that everything he did while president including his role on january 6th is protected because he was in office at the time. we're awaiting a ruling by federal appeals court judges on that, which could come any day now. that decision, which will then likely make its way to the supreme court, will determine whether special counsel jack smith's federal election interference case against trump can move forward. and in just over two weeks, the supreme court will begin to hear arguments in the case over whether trump's name could even appear on the ballot. february 8th marks the start of oral arguments in the colorado 14th amendment case, which will look at the decision by the state supreme court that trump disqualified himself from running for office by engaging in an insurrection. as politico puts it, the supreme court's decisions could matter more to the former president's campaign than his wins in iowa and new hampshire. about the colorado case, they write, if the court answers yes, and assuming that answer trump

can't become the republica nominee, no matter what the primary results dictate. most doubt a majority of justices willeclare trump ineligible to run. far more likely result, the court will find an off ramp that will allow trump to stay on the ballot based o a narrow or technical reading of the insurrection clause. even as he seems poido sew up t nomination is another reminder of how trump's unprecedented legal woes are interlaced with his political fortunes. that's where we start this hour with former assistant u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst glen kirschner and with me at the table former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the department of justice and co-host of the msnbc podcast one of my favorites prosecuting donald trump mary mccord, plus author of the prompt 2024 newsletter which discusses all the big questions about the 2024 election and there are many

opinion editor at "the washington post" alexi mccann is here with me. glen, let's start with you. trump, he really needs a supreme court to vote in his favor on all of these. what are the expectations here? >> you know, alicia, i am not one of those analysts who thinks that an off ramp is a done deal. i think there are so many moving pieces when it comes to the disqualification issue, the colorado case. you have states rights, which usually the right wing of the supreme court is enamored of states rights and the states have the right to run their own elections, including adopting, you know, procedures and passing laws to run their elections as they see fit, qualify and disqualify candidates, for example, from primary ballots. you have the textualists, the plain language of section 3 of the 14th amendment, which seems

to disqualify insurrectionists. by my reading. and you have a factual finding by a lower court, a colorado trial court, and i hesitate to jump into this area when it comes to appeals because a little inside baseball, mary mccord was not only a high doj official, but one of our premiere appellate lawyers and supervisors at the d.c. u.s. attorney's office, i would wand er into her office and seek her wise counsel and advice. we have a trial court in colorado finding after a trial on the merits that donald trump engaged in insurrection, that, of course, was given a stamp of approval by the colorado supreme court, so there are so many moving pieces, with respect to

this issue before the supreme court. i, for one, can't wait for the oral argument on february 8th to see what kind of questions the justices have. >> how dare you upstage me on properly introducing a guest. that was a better introduction of mary mccord than i could ever possibly offer. i want to get your take on sort of this gap between what we're hearing between a lot of legal analysts and what we heard from glen about the possibility of the supreme court almost wanting to take an off ramp. we're not talking about the merits. we're not talking about case law. we're talking about what is the supreme court going to want to do? >> i think there is part of that, and certainly the cynic is, you know, they have a preordained result and they'll find a way to get there and that's where the idea of an off ramp comes in. there are some legal commentators and just others who think that the supreme court at least some -- at least maybe five members, maybe six, will have -- and maybe all nine to be honest, will have some trepidation about being the

people responsible for keeping someone off the ballot. there is a lot of talk that says this feels undemocratic. on the flip side of it, i mean, this is a provision of the constitution, it was added there for a reason, as judge ludic likes to say, the most democratic thing you could have that you cannot have someone who engaged in an insurrection against the constitution of the united states serve as the president of the united states. so, i think, you know, that's the battle in terms of what they may want. i do think even if you put aside sort of any maybe preordained conclusion or desire not to be responsible for keeping anyone off the ballot, there is also just a lot of unprecedented legal issues and so even -- that they have to tick through. they did not decide to accept cert on one or two or three of the issues. they basically left it open, very open ended. did the colorado supreme court err in precluding donald trump on the ballot?

that means when trump's attorneys filed their brief last week, they listed out five separate issues. there are actually as many as seven or eight in the colorado opinion, so even they didn't list them all. but, still, five separate issues that the court will have to hit. and so, you know, there certainly are lots of places where there could be a point of failure. >> and as we wait for the decisions, like the timeline keeps moving here, right? >> yes. because i think -- and i have now been proven wrong, i did think we would get a d.c. circuit opinion on the immunity question within two weeks. yesterday was two weeks. so i'm now officially -- >> every day we start editorial calls, today could be the day. yeah, could be the day. >> they didn't accelerate the briefing schedule to take four months to write an opinion. and so, but with every passing day, that sort of, like, pushes back potentially the trial start date, assuming that the d.c. circuit says that there is no immunity for donald trump. and one big question, if they do

that, and i do think they will, and i think one reason we may not have seen an opinion yet is because i think they might be trying to have one opinion that all three unanimously agree on and that takes, you know, some negotiating and some drafts and passing them back and forth. but, you know what are they going to say? are they going to say donald trump, you've got five days or ten days before we send a mandate to the district court, which the mandate is, like, the ball is now in your court, you can go forward and prepare for trial, which means if he's going to seek appeal either from the full en banc court or the supreme court, he would have do it in that shorter period of time. otherwise he has 45 days to seek en banc review, 90 days to seek cert. >> you can feel it, the extent to which those who want to see accountability are holding their breath. because we have these two timelines that feel like they're on something of a collision course. >> and we have seen how trump has escaped or evaded accountability throughout his presidency, post 2020, post

january 6th, i think the really interesting thing, of course this matters how the supreme court rules. but faith in the supreme court now is at the lowest it has ever been, ditto with other institutions across the country. regardless of how they rule, people will be angry. they will be protesting. they will feel robbed or upset and that is just something that i think we have to prepare for as the new normal, now that trump is back on the scene, and he's going to have to deal with not just the supreme court, but as we all know all these different cases taking place across the country, his own lawyers are claiming there will be bedlam and chaos if things don't go his way. >> hard to tell whether that originated with donald trump or originated with the attorneys. my money is, of course, on donald trump. glen, we have david jolly on the program earlier this week, talking about how trump has called for, quote, total immunity and how that defense has evolved. take a listen. >> saying in his defense that he

was acting within the outer perimeters of the executive branch powers, that -- and tampering with the election or inciting january 6th, all he was doing was exercising his executive function to communicate the nation's interest in free and fair elections. he was yelling fraud. he was making a substantive defense, even one that would likely fail in the courts because it is not within the outer perimeter of the office. he has now leapt to, i wasn't doing anything illegal, i was doing illegal things, i get total immunity because the office should be beyond the reach of accountability, and consider how seamlessly his movement has followed him in that leap. >> trump wants to be treated like an authoritarian, he said so himself. he wants no checks on him. >> yeah. and, alicia, what does it say if donald trump wins that argument, i don't think there is a chance

he will win that argument in the circuit, in the d.c. federal circuit court of appeals, and if the supreme court is an honest broker of the law, and the word if is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence, i don't think they should accept the case for review, assuming the d.c. federal circuit court of appeals rejects it. but if he wins, then the current president has free reign to remain in office by any means necessary. now, i think when we talk about that, how president biden would be completely unconstrained by the criminal laws of our country, could do whatever he darn well pleased, our gut immediately sort of leaps to the conclusion that -- but he wouldn't do that. i don't know what in the world anybody would do if the courts handed down an opinion saying a president of the united states can break the law with impunity and immunity, even to keep

himself in office unconstitutionally. i mean, where does that put us as a nation at that point? >> well, i ask myself the same question, looking at the polling that came out of iowa and new hampshire. you had a majority of republicans or at least half of republicans saying they don't care if trump is convicted. that speaks to me sort of the part of the challenge of the coalition that the biden campaign is going to have to try to attract and put together, right? they need to see big numbers among democrats, they're going to see big numbers among independents and have an argument to those republicans to whom it does matter. >> yeah. and we saw in new hampshire, just last night, how trump is a driving force for independents or soft republicans to come out to vote against him and choose an alternative. that will certainly help someone like president biden. but i think that his problems lay ahead and he's still trying to figure all of this out. you mentioned the polling from new hampshire and iowa, i think what is striking is the other

polling numbers we had from both of those states about the number of folks who didn't think biden won the election fairly or legitimately in 2020. we had a column from my colleague about how the big lie is the real winner of the republican primaries. we have all known it was going to be donald trump as the nominee since before he even announced. the big lie and all of its implications are back in full force and they're winning in states like new hampshire where we're all aware of this independent streak that rewards someone like nikki haley and having half of the electorate say we don't believe in joe biden. >> it could be a big win for the primary and the big loss for america writ large and for democracy because if you have someone who has been convicted of a crime elected and serving as the president of the united states, what it means for us, right, there is that, and i hope we talk about that sufficiently, there is also what it means to our allies. what it means to the world as they watch that chaos unfold. >> yeah, and, you know, one of the things that these examples

in this polling shows is that when donald trump says things over and over again, in enough places, and enough forums, and frankly it gets press attention -- >> and amplified by other republicans. >> correct. and it -- shamefully is, that becomes the dominant narrative at least among republicans. and, you know, that's also what worries me about the statements he's making about immunity, right? the same -- i think it might have been from the same clip you showed, but we didn't list that part where he compared this to truman. truman had to have immunity when he decided to drop the bomb to end the war. well, nothing could be more apples and oranges. we were in a declared war, a different rules apply to that, which are important and significant. they involve concepts like proportionality. and certainly truman's decision

has been criticized because of how many innocent people were killed. but that's not about immunity from u.s. criminal law. and so, if he -- but if you think about the way he uses this narrative to make people think that if the president doesn't have immunity, he won't be able to do things including what is necessary to win a war, that's a very dangerous thing for people in america to actually -- >> that is exactly his intent. his intent is to scramble the understanding of what it is we're talking about here, right? it is to have folks sitting around the kitchen table being like, well, if they don't have that, how are they able to do the basic functioning of the job of the president of the united states? he has shown no great reverence for the actual institution of the presidency, no great reverence for the actual job demands of the presidency. so, not surprising that he would besmirch the office in this way. the danger, of course, as alexi said, is the number of other people he's getting to buy into

his false -- his lie, right? he got people to buy into the big lie, now he's getting people to buy into this idea that presidents should be fundamentally immune from crimes. >> and we can push back on his nonsensical claim that if a president doesn't have absolute immunity, he can't prosecute a war and protect the united states against our adversaries and our enemies. you can quip a lie to that by just looking to the words of his own lawyer, in the oral argument before the d.c. federal circuit court of appeals when the judge asked him, you're saying if a president ordered s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate his political opponent, he couldn't be prosecuted for it? and trump's attorney said, that's right. not unless he was impeached by the house and convicted in a senate trial, he couldn't be prosecuted for it. so, that squarely contradicts

donald trump's claim, no, no, this is all about a president being able to do what a president needs to do within the bounds of the law and to protect our nation. but, you know, for some reason people continue to fall for or want to believe or, you know, they're too gullible to understand that this nonsense that he spouts out is really just all about throwing sand in the gears, delaying matters, and fooling those people who are either unwilling or unable to engage in sort of a fact-based assessment of what he's really saying. >> alexi, something that glenn said maybe you pick up your barbie pink pen and write a note to yourself. >> sorry, i was sort of thinking ahead about other things including joe biden and just this idea that house republicans are in large part carrying trump's water for 2024 and the way that they continue to investigate joe biden when every single investigation turns up no

evidence, they'll launch a new investigation, bring in the same witnesses who discredited their investigation the last time and it is just to i think add to this narrative trump and the right will have that biden is under investigation, i'm not under investigation or if i am, it is because of biden and it is trying to muddy the waters in a way that is sort of, like, well, they're both bad, does it matter what is happening with trump if biden is constantly under investigation too? >> creating an apples to oranges, more like apples to kittens. thank you for spending some time with us. when we return, the twice impeached four times indicted disgraced ex-president's mounting legal problems prompted florida lawmakers to propose something too wild for the state's republican governor. they actually wanted taxpayers to pick up the tab for trump's legal bills. ron desantis said about that after the break. how the republican party is behind the vast majority of

antivoting lawsuits over the past year, top voting rights attorney marc elias will be our guest to talk about that and how the gop is now all in on a self-described dictator for a day. and later, leave it to donald trump to mess up a victory speech. why his time at the podium was everything a winner should not do. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. do "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley.

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financial officer jimmy patronis who -- to pay donald trump's legal bills with taxpayer funds. patronis, a member of ron desantis' cabinet, said the freem fighters fund would provide up to5 million in financial support to florida residents running for president who face legal partisan political attacks by the department of justice or state attorneys. there is just one issue for the sycophants looking to fund the legal defense of the man indicted on 91 felony counts with floridian taxpayer dollars. the state's governor, trump spent the last year referring to as ron desanctimonious, he said he would use his veto pen to prevent the bill from taking effect. dave aaronburg, alexi is back with us, it seems like desantis saved his best attacks on donald trump for after his presidential campaign. >> who knew that desantis had this in him? here is a guy when he ran for governor had tv commercials of

his kids learning phrases like build the wall. are when covid was in its all throes, desantis bought a million doses of the drug because donald trump touted it as a miracle cure and then desantis turns around and endorses trump. it took us by surprise when he said he would veto this ridiculous measure, but i guess even this went too far, that, you know, it could be occult, but this is a new low and genuflecting at the trump altar. >> there is something fascinating about the language, which makes it sound like we're talking about a florida resident, no one in particular, when it is very clear who was the intended audience of this. how did this bonkers thing even come together in the first place? >> so, you have senator ileana garcia in miami who came up with this ridiculous idea, while there was a primary, but what they want do is to compete for the love of the maga base.

and the troublesome part is that the cfo, state wide elected official jimmy patronis endorsed this idea. and i know jimmy. he's a very likable guy, used to be a democrat, but he wants to be governor as a republican. and to do so he thinks the way to do it is to grovel and debase himself, sell his soul to donald trump and that's why you see this. but what he didn't expect was that desantis would throw him under the bus by saying he would veto it. they deserve it. >> alexi, trump's campaign, they used a majority of their funds to reckon with all of these legal bills. reporting late last year, save america pac paid $37 million to law firms and attorneys, more than half of that pac's total expenses, the rnc spent $1.6 million of their own funds paying trump's legal expenses in 2021. part of the pressure here to get nikki haley out of this race is to deal with -- to not be spending money on a traditional

campaign so he has the money to deal with his legal woes. >> absolutely. i mean, i think he already said publicly on fox news or otherwise that because she is still in the race, he has to waste money, he said, going after her instead of biden. that's the political reality. when he was first indicted by alvin bragg, when other members of congress, republican members of congress, sent out emails trying to fund-raise off of that, they had to give a small portion to trump's super pac. he's constantly been thinking of ways how to make money from other people based on these legal woes because he simply cannot have enough money to pay all of these things and he needs to use his supporters to do just that for him. >> and, i mean, i'm fascinated by all of this data. i'm also fascinated by just where this leaves ron desantis, right? to have done so much, to win the support, the adoration of donald trump to have failed in that pursuit, to then come out and endorse him for the presidency,

despite having made some sort of veiled critiques of him as a leader and then have this sort of fall in your lap and say this is a bridge too far, where does ron desantis go from here? >> that's what everyone in florida wants to know. what ron desantis are we going to see? he can't run for governor again. his wife i think is clearly interested perhaps in succeeding him. and so what is next? i think what happens is he's coming back to florida as governor for a couple more legislative sessions and there is going to be hell to pay. he'll go after the republicans, who didn't have his back, who supported trump, and i think this is a signal, that's where he's going to go. maybe some triangulation. i don't know. but there are not a lot of options for ron desantis because the two u.s. senators in our state, rick scott and marco rubio, are both republicans, they're pretty popular within their party, so, this may be just to see where it goes on the seat of his pants. i'm going do what i think is right now, no matter the political consequences.

could be interesting. >> dave aronberg, alexi, thank you for spending time with us. when we return, how presidential candidate who tried to overturn democracy became the savior of a party working to undermine the right to vote. top voting rights attorney marc elias will join us after a short break. ights attorney marc elias will join us after a short break. o “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire we all know that words have power. they set things in motion and make us happy or sad. but there's one word that stands out, because when people say it, lives are changed. it's not a big word. it's itsy bitsy. it's only three little letters. but when you say it, the life of a kid like me can be changed. so what is this special word?

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the republican party is rallying around a candidate so wholly and unabashedly

antidemocratic, consumed by criminal trials, half of which related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. it is all alarming and unprecedented. but it is also unsurprising given that it is republicans who have been increasingly working for years on antidemocracy efforts behind the scenes in courts all across this country. according to a new report by democracy docket, republican organizations and candidates were responsible for more than two-thirds of antivoting lawsuits filed in 2023. quote, further entrenching themselves in -- as the predominant force behind antivoting litigation and seeking to formally intervene in 20% of pro voting lawsuits. they all together had as a party a hand in over a third of all democracy related lawsuits filed last year. joining us now, voting rights attorney and founder of the site democracy docket, marc elias. when i read a bunch of numbers, i get lost in the read. what is the big picture here? >> the big picture is the

republican party has been bad on voting and getting much worse. so, people who think that donald trump is an outlier, that somehow donald trump represents some fraction of a wing of the republican party are missing the big story. so when we talk about the growth of the republican party's involvement in antivoting legislation, let's just go back to 2021, when you look, this is after, by the way, donald trump loses, after january 6th, if you look at the full pie of litigation that was filed, attacking voting rights, this was the year that georgia passed their big voter suppression bill, the republican national committee, national republicans, only comprised about 25% of the litigants trying to restrict voting rights. by the time you get to this year, or last year, 2023, it is 68%. so, the republican party is spending a larger and larger share of their donor's money, of their time and energy, of their, you know, overall resources, on

fighting against voting laws or fighting against voting rights. and that's because they have figured out that they no longer are majoritarian party. by the time you get to 2020, republicans are, like, of course we are going to lose the popular vote, they have to try to rig the rules to allow themselves to win even though a majority of the population doesn't support it. >> when you look at donald trump, through that lens, right, you look at the fact that you have an overwhelming number of republicans who are willing to support someone who says he wants to be a dictator for a day, it is almost as though that's not a bug, it is a feature of the candidacy, but their frustration with him is more the fact he's willing to be so unabashed about it. he's not doing this behind closed doors. he's not doing this in

courtrooms where people might not be paying attention to it, he's just blatantly out there on the stump saying i don't want democracy to matter. >> that's right. they don't like the fact that trump is as public as it is. but they like -- but they are part of trumpism. in december of 2020, after -- when trump was on his last leg in court, the state of texas tried to disenfranchise entire foreign states, led by the way by mike johnson the then back bencher member now speaker of the house. after the evening of january 6th, after the insurrection, 136 republicans voted to disenfranchise americans. trumpism gained support that night. just the other day in the 14th amendment case in the supreme court, 180 republican members of the house and senate signed on to a brief to allow donald trump to run for office. so it is not a bug. it is the central feature of the republican party today.

>> let's talk about ronna mcdaniel. she says republicans need to, quote, unite around our eventual nominee, which is going to be donald trump. she had said before the party apparatus was going to remain neutral. you have nikki haley saying she's not going to give up. bring that to its rational conclusion, which is then republicans in the party itself, the chair of the party saying we actually don't care about you coming out and expressing your vote preference because it is time for us to rally around this one guy. >> look, they have always been behind trump. in some ways ronna mcdonnell is being more honest today than she has been for the last year. this is the republican party of trump. she is the chair of the trump party. she changed her last name because donald trump didn't want the same name as mitt romney. she's a forever trumper from the beginning and so, this party, i think the big mistake that people on the left and people in the center make is that they are

constantly looking for this mythological centrist never trumper within the party. they don't exist within the modern republican party. >> because you're saying, like a liz cheney and adam kinzinger, they exist at the margins? >> liz cheney is a great example. liz cheney is a rock rib conservative. she is a solid republican conservative. she was driven from the party. she was the number three republican, she was driven from the party, not because she was not sufficiently opposed to abortion rights, she's antichoice, not because she was insufficiently committed to tax cuts or whatever else the republican party stands for, she was in favor of everything the republican party stands for. the only thing she did was said that the events of january 6th was a national disgrace and that was enough to replace her with a woman, elise stefanik, not nearly as conservative, she now is, but who refers to the perpetrators of january 6th who have been convicted as hostages.

>> i want to show you what new hampshire governor chris sununu, a republican who endorsed nikki haley, had to say in reaction to ronna mcdaniel. >> with all due respect to ronna mcdaniel to call it after two states, 40 states to go, the head of the republican party saying we don't want to hear from all the other republicans in the nation because it is getting too close, that's nonsense. you guys don't pick the winner. ronna doesn't. i sure as heck don't. the voters do. let's let it play out. >> can you help me rittle something out here, if for any reason donald trump cannot sustain this run for the presidency, but they have forced everyone else out of the race, what are they left with? >> this is -- this is vintage donald trump. this is -- if you want to know how it is that donald trump drove his companies into bankruptcy, managed to ruin everyone around him, this is it. as we sit here today, the u.s. supreme court is going to hear an argument on february 8th

about whether or not donald trump is even eligible to be president. and yet donald trump has convinced the entire party to throw away any alternative. and leave himself as the only candidate who can run. and so the republican party has completely turned itself into supplicants for donald trump and that is his genius, it is the reason why donald trump doesn't want to be a dictator for a day. donald trump knows that if you're a dictator for a day, you never give that up. >> truer words have never been said, my friend. democracy docket points out there were still more provoting lawsuits than antivoting lawsuits in 2023. that is good news. talk about that fight from the other side. we actually -- it is how we kicked off this show, was talking about the need for that type of structural reform. >> yeah, so, my message to everyone is don't believe the cynics. the cynics want you to believe that all is lost. it is donald trump and the maga forces that want you to believe that there is no hope for free

and fair elections in 2024. optimism is the tool of the left. it is pessimism that donald trump is trying to sell you. so, right now, in courtrooms around america, democracy is winning. we just saw in louisiana, a federal court make sure that there would be another black opportunity district after alabama went to the supreme court and won. we have seen in courtroom after courtroom voter suppression laws be struck down, donald trump and allies lose, not just when my team took him on and won 64, 65 cases, but year in and year out and just look, just today, wisconsin court upheld the challenge to some of their vote by mail laws. so have optimism. be careful, you know, don't sugar coat what republicans are up to, but have optimism because there are lawyers like me and many, many others fighting for democracy in courts and it is winning more than it is losing. >> marc elias, thank you so much for being with us, spending some time with us. when we return, leave it to

donald trump to mess up a victory speech, how the disgraced ex-president took the low road in a moment that called for, well, the complete opposite. n a moment that called for, well, the complete opposite ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ my favorite color is... [ imitating trombone ] because, it's like a family thing! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ made it! mom! leave running behind, behind.

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call this number right now or go online to helpnokidhungry.org and help feed more kids today. and then there is his behavior. listen, it is really hard to screw up a victory speech in politics and that's what donald trump did tonight. i guarantee you, that was not the plan. they had a speech in a teleprompter, in a trump-like way probably magnanimous and haley made him angry.

and so he reacted that way. you got to think about trump, a psy-ops notion running against him. that was revealing. >> for a moment, consider last night's new hampshire results absent the details, like names or party. just generic candidate a, generic candidate b. and in any other universe, an 11 point win to clinch a presidential nomination, two states into primary season would be cause for celebration. but by now, we all know exactly who we're talking about, where generic candidate a might smile, wave, talk about moving forward in a victory speech, not donald trump. no. only he could manage to make such a moment about grievance, about personal attacks, about deliberate dishonesty, just watch. >> we won new hampshire three times now. three. three. we win it every time. we win the primary. we win the generals. i find in life you can't let people get away with [ bleep ],

okay. you can't. you just can't do that. and when i watched her, the fancy dress, that probably wasn't so fancy, come up, i said, what is she doing, we won. did you ever think that she actually appointed you, tim, and think of it, appointed and you're the senator of his state and she endorsed me, you must really hate her. you have the very unpopular governor of this state, this guy, he's got to be on something, i've never seen anybody with energy -- he's, like, hopscotch. just a little note to nikki, she's not going to win. but if she did, she would be under investigation by those people in 15 minutes. don't get too angry. i get even. >> joining us political strategist matt dowd and from north charleston, south carolina, ali vitali. don't love playing sound of

donald trump, but sometimes you need to do it to capture how mi andering the speech is, how angry the speech is how full of inaccuracies and lies it is. your thoughts on whatever that was and where we go from here. >> yeah, it is meandering and meanderthal. i hate to paraphrase robert frost, with donald trump, two roads diverge in the woods and he always takes the one less positive and less compassionate, always. he takes that road in the course of this. i have been involved in politics as i know you have been for decades. the art of politics is, maybe donald trump needs a math lesson, is always addition. it is always addition. especially if you start from a party that is a minority of the country. and so, subtraction never works. i'm reminded as i watch donald trump that night, and his performance and how he conducts

himself against opponents and bringing the party together of the lesson we just learned from kari lake. kari lake wanted to be governor of arizona, she then went and said i want to exclude all the mccain people, i don't want anybody that is not real maga and she lost the governorship of arizona. and donald trump doesn't seem or can't seem to contain himself in a logical way in order to know that fundamental lesson of politics, which is subtraction loses, addition is the only way to win. >> it is the only way to win. ali vitali, you're in new hampshire for us yesterday, you're in south carolina for us today, which means we have hit the part in the presidential cycle where ali vitali is only sleeping on airplanes and in cars. what is that wild speech, yes, so give in that you're operating on very little speech, that wild speech from trump last night, what does it tell you about the way he's prepared to conduct the rest of his campaign? >> reporter: it is not surprising, but we know it is going to be a bruising battle.

i mean, even at the nikki haley event i'm here at right now, it is slated to start in a few hours, but already there are folks outside with trump banners and flags, it is the most trump flag that i've seen, and frankly the most counterprogramming i've seen from supporters of the former president at a nikki haley event or frankly any other event for a republican rival this 2024 cycle. i do think it is a sign of things to come. i'm going to go out, i'll talk to the folks, see why they're here, but that's a pretty standing example of i think the way that even trump supporters take nikki haley's staying in this race personally because of the way that he seemed to take it very personally last night. to matthew's point, the person who is trying to play addition in this primary is, in fact, nikki haley. i asked her about the way that she is trying to build a coalition at least in new hampshire of independent voters, even some democrats who were able to at the end of last year switch their affiliation to undeclared, she said that that's

not a bad thing in a republican primary. that's something that she wants to be able to do for the republican party writ large because they have struggled to win popular vos in many of the last presidential elections. there is the reality she does need to do beter with republican primary voters and she can't allow trump to run up the margins with that group of voters. that's the point of nikki haley staying in this race. she says this a lot on the campaign stump. she knows donald trump having worked for him. she also thinks she knows what gets under his skin. challenging him to debates, challenging him last night to mental fitness or mental acuity tests, trying to say he's afraid to debate her, those are things that haley says gets under trump's skin. the fact that she said those things last night and then trump went on the diatribe he went on in new hampshire does sort of give some credence to the fact that nikki haley might be on to

something by the way she's going after donald trump. it will be difficult for nikki haley to win this primary. that being said, they're forging ahead and the mindset i hear from my sources in haley world is that they're now the only trump alternative, they're trying to take the momentum that they have had this entire calendar year, through iowa and new hampshire, and bring it not just to her home state, but to the states further down the calendar as well. thinking super tuesday states like michigan, virginia, texas, all of those are ones that i hear about a lot now in haley world and they're not showing signs of wanting to back down, not yet, but we know the pressure is there. >> i have about a minute left. i wonder as we head into south carolina what it is you're watching for. >> well, i agree with what was just said. it is very difficult for nikki haley to put together the math. the problem is she lost republicans in new hampshire by 49 points last night and she is heading into a south carolina primary that is going to be by and large only republicans.

and so it is going to be very difficult. i actually am encouraged by nikki haley, though i disagreed with many of the things she said. even if she can't win, she is doing a service to our democracy by exposing the problems with donald trump becoming president of the united states. it took her a while to get there, i hope she continues and so what i'm looking forward is even if she knows she probably can't win, does she continue in this race to highlight the problem it would be if donald trump were elected president of the united states next november. >> that is, of course, the most important message of all. matt dowd, ali vitali, thank you for joining us. we're going to sneak in a quick break and then we'll be right back. g to sneak in a quick break and then we'll be right back

beginning monday, our first guest becomes the new host of the daily show, the very funny jon stewart. happy new year. >> thank you very much. >> did you have a good holiday season? >> holiday season, there's so much, that hanukkah traffic. but, you know. >> look at that hair. we are happy to report that clip, despite being 25 years old, is suddenly relevant again because jon stewart is returning to host the daily show on mondays. as an executive producer of the program for the rest of the 2024 election cycle. he previously hosted from 1999 to 2015 before handing over the reins to trevor noah, missing out on the trump administration, the show has been without a permanent host since noah

announced his departure in 2022. stewart posted his intensions to enter the transfer portal for my last year of eligibility. look forward to stewart being back at the desk on february 12th. another break for us. we'll be right back. 12th another break for us we'll be right back.

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thank you as always for spending part of your wednesday with us. we're so grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. >> thank you so much. as everyone can see, i'm here with james carville, we're going to get into the new hampshire results and cue the music. you may have been watching, you may have