that, if she is going to stay focused on him sharply, it will be the other question, at least for the next few days. >> it's not like she went easy on him last, night and in that clip that you just played. but you're not really getting to the nub of why -- why is she still in the race? maybe she'll get there. it will be interesting. >> that will be very interesting. i would love for her to just say it. do we want to nominee who is indicted on multiple felonies, slash, will maybe be convicted? i don't know, during the few weeks before it? at which point they will all be furious out the lips and the deep state for, you know, sandbagging them. that will be my favorite plot twist in this. thank you very much. >> thanks, chris. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. wagner toni>> she hasn't said e ever. >> that is a great point. >> she hasn't said it at all. and it is literally the argument. >> it is very funny to think

about another situation, like a job interview, so someone just being like, there is one more thing -- i'm facing 91 counts. >> i mean, anyway. >> we'll figure it out. >> yeah. thank you. thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. if you are a person that doesn't think a convicted felon should be running the country, you might think of this statistic as a glass half empty kind of number. an exit polling conducted by nbc yesterday, 54% of new hampshire's republican primary voters said that if donald trump to be convicted of a crime, they would still consider him fit to be president. don't get me wrong, that is not a sign of a healthy democracy. the majority of new hampshire's republican primary voters would not care if trump ends up a convicted felon. by the way, that would also mean that donald trump, a florida resident, would not be

able to vote for himself as a convicted felon, although 54% of new hampshire republican voters still would. presidential elections in this country are not won by a majority of republicans are majority of democrats, they are one in the margins, they are one with the centrists, these swing voters and the independents. this election could come down to just a couple hundred thousand voters in just seven or eight states. that is also not assigned as a healthy democracy. but in the short term it is why there might be another optimistic way of reading that exit poll that we just got out of new hampshire last night, if you are someone who believes that they don't belong in the white house. 42% of voters said that they would not consider trump fit for office if he is convicted of a crime.

last week in iowa, 31% of caucus goers said the same. the odds are that this election is going to come down to just a few percentage points of votes in a few key states. even if that 42% in new hampshire is high and even if the 41% in iowa's high. even if those numbers drop precipitously, when the general election rolls around. which it probably will. even if those numbers are a fifth of where they stand today, that could still be enough to offer the outcome of this election. the trials really matter here. whether or not donald trump ends up a convicted felon. the child could be the thing that pushes swing voters to vote for biden or to stay home rather than voting for donald trump. that is, of course if trump actually sees a courtroom before the election. i should qualify that statement by saying mr. trump will be in some courtrooms before the

election. he's expected to be any courtroom tomorrow, and yet another civil case for his continued defamation of writer, e. jean carroll. and we are still waiting for the judge in the new york attorney general civil fraud case against trump and his company. my question is, will donald trump seeing a trial in a criminal case before the 2024 election. by far, the simplest, most rate forward criminal cases the mar-a-lago classified documents case. that case is at least hypothetically sent to go on trial may 20th. but every legal expert we have talked to recently believes that the judge in that case, judge aileen cannon, it is likely to allow donald trump to delay it, and the layup, and delay at. judge -- the scope of discovery in this case dramatically, which is a move that could delay the trial even more. down in georgia, where fulton

county district attorney, fani willis, is prosecuting trump and his allies for election interference, of r.i.c.o. conspiracy case, willis has asked the court for an august 5th trial date. but now, that child it also faces potential delays as trump codefendts are trying to get d.a. willis, and her entire team of prosecutors taken off of the case, alleging misconduct. both of those trial days are very much up in the air. the case and most legal experts believe it's likely to go to trial before the election, special counsel jack smith's federal election interference case, as of today that start date is also in question. that trial was originally scheduled to begin on march 4th. it is expected to take around three months, start to finish. but that case has been effectively frozen for six weeks. while trump's claim of presidential immunity makes its way through the appeals

process. that appeals process is taking its sweet, sweet time. yesterday, the same appeals court denied a different appeal by mr. trump which was getting rid of his gag order and took the appeals court 36 days to come to that decision. whether or not to re-hear trump's argument that he should be able to threaten witnesses, attorneys, in court. i'm not a judge, but it feels like a straightforward decision here. still, 36 days. that same appeals court heard oral arguments on the presidential immunity issue on january 9th, which was by my clock, 15 days ago. who knows how long it will take the court to decide on that matter, and even once the appeals court is done, the decision will almost definitely be appealed to the supreme court and who knows how long they might take to make a decision? all the while, this case will be frozen. so, what does that do for the

march start date? today we got a big clue. today, the judge in that case, judge tanya chutkan, scheduled a date for a different defendant given that trump's trial is given to last around three months, it suggests that chutkan season that is unlikely that trump trial will start anytime before mid april, at best. the wheels of justice turn slowly. and that reality is running smack into the political reality we are facing as a country. it potentially is a critical number of american voters are saying that a conviction would really, really matter to them as far as electing the next president. but the way that things are going between the courts, and the defendants, and list delay tactics, will a conviction come too late? joining me now is former attorney general, eric holder. thank you so much for joining me tonight.

i'm sure that you saw the same numbers that i saw about americans, and a fairly strong belief on the part of not in significant numbers of voters that the convictions matter. i've got to ask, you as a former top justice department official, the top, do you think the department of justice took too long, really starting its investigation of donald trump and its inner circle in earnest? >> you know, i don't know exactly what was going on in the justice department. i obviously didn't have access to the materials they were looking at or what processes they were going through. in hindsight, it's always 2020. but i can say that i think that once jack smith was brought on to the case that the case have moved in a very fast manner. and they moved things along. and so, i think that the focus that you raise is a very legitimate one. and i think that the process, the judicial process needs to proceed with the american people, this vital piece of

information before them, before they actually cast ballots in november. but i think that the emphasis has to be on the judicial system, and to try to make sure that they, they processes cases as quickly as possible. these cases can be designated in such a way that they are fast-tracked. i mean, it certainly happened in the supreme court with the nixon case. there's other cases where this has occurred as well. and i would think that given, you know, given the reality of where we stand now, and close to some of the election, i would hope that the courts move these cases along as they did not do during mr. trump's term in office where he successfully played the courts and delayed, the lead, and delayed. >> what do you make of this 36 days to decide on whether to hear trump's gag order appeal? i am not a lawyer, i play one on television, badly, it seemed like a long time for a fairly straightforward decision. and at the same time, we still

do not have a ruling on this presidential immunity question 15 days later. >> well, i was a trial judge, i have never been an appellate judge. i don't know all the dynamics that go on between the three individuals who heard these cases. but it seems to me that it should not taken off a long period of time to decide them. we talk about this presidential immunity case, and it is something that was raised, you, know some months ago. we talked about it for a pretty long period of time. but if you step back and look at what the claim is, it's really not much there. this is a case that should be decided relatively quickly. my hope would be that that would be the case. so that the necessary appeals can be filed and the judicial system can get through the case and actually put this case before a jury. >> but you say it should be decided quickly, for some of us on the outside, who are neither trial lawyers or appellate lawyers it doesn't seem like it

has moved quickly. it's at this point, can it move? that's 15 days seem like a long time to or is it relatively expeditious given the timeframe that we are operating in? is it still in the realm of this potentially being seen as moving quickly when they handed a decision 25 days later? >> 25 days, 30 days, i would say that that is fairly expeditious. the reality for me is that i never thought that the march trial date in washington was likely to actually occur. they are all going to have delays, i, thought of some nature. so, my belief has always been that this is a case likely to go to trial in, may or in june. so, from my own perspective, i think that the case is still on track. >> can i get your thoughts on something that the conservative justice, michael luttig, tweeted last week. it was never contemplated by the courts would have to defend themselves against such a belligerent defendant, a

defendant, president, determined to de-legitimize them in the eyes of the american public. and they are powerless to defend themselves against him and he knows it. we were talking about the pressure on the judges to come to a quick conclusion with some of these rulings. but, on the other side of this, if they do not rule in trump's favor, it is just an enormous amount of pressure on them from the other side of the aisle, if you will. and i wonder what you make of that. i know you are not an appeals court lawyer, but just as someone who understands this mechanism of justice and the role that these judges are now playing, and in some ways, holding aloft american democracy. what do you make of that assessment on the part of judge luttig? >> yeah. i'm actually pretty confident that all of the judges who are involved in these cases, when i talk about the appellate judges, they will decide these cases as quickly as they can in a fair

way. i don't think they would be intimidated by the trump maga people. i don't think that that is a concern. but he's right, the judicial systems are not really equipped to push back in a way that the executive branch can if they have attacks brought against them by members of congress for political parties. that is just the way that we've designed our system. so i think it is incumbent upon the courts, that is another reason why they need to expedite these matters so that they do not subject themselves to unnecessarily, unnecessarily long periods of criticism. because that is how a long term negative impact on the perception of the courts, if for instance, the delay goes on for two or three months and you have these withering, unfounded attacks on our judicial system. that will have a collateral impact on the system itself. >> let me ask you one more question as a matter, of course, the 14th amendment case is going to be heard at the supreme court, i believe, two weeks from tomorrow on february

8th. there have been a number of briefs filed. the biden department of justice has not filed an amicus brief. on his face i understand the political implications of the biden administration wing, and on a decision that could greatly benefit joe biden depending on what the court rules if they take donald trump off with a ballot. as a member of import for the federal government, and as a big constitutional question, it seems unusual at best that the department of justice hasn't waited on this from the institutional point of view. are you surprised by it? >> no, not really, i do think that you would think that in a case of that magnitude, where the justice department had irrelevant interest that they would weigh in with the amicus brief of some sort. on the other hand i don't think that we can divorce this case from the political reality that the biden administration generally, the justice department more specifically faces. i think that the decision of the determination by the

executive branch not to comment on the case, not to be involved in the component of the case, makes a great deal of sense. the justice department wants to be seen as only trying the case, applying the facts, and dealing with the law, into making its case in that way. not to be a part of some effort to get him off the ballot. i think that that might be something in a different context that the justice department would want to comment to pollen. but in this context, i think that silence is probably the best policy. >> for attorney general, it is invaluable to have your perspective in moments like these. i really appreciate your time tonight. >> sure. thank you. >> there is much more to get to this evening, including nikki haley, who is still standing after her second place finish in new hampshire last night. we will talk about what happened when she was governor of south carolina, and how that might foretell what happens to her in that state, next. but for, the endorsement nearly

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[crowd chanting] donald trump is a billionaire, and that is who he represents. and this choice is clear. joe biden, but on the american worker while donald trump blamed the american worker. >> that was the president of the united auto workers union, endorsing president biden this afternoon. biden has been edging towards that since september when he

became the first american president to join a picket line in support of autoworkers striking for higher wages. donald trump, one day leader, made his own attempt to appeal to blue-collar workers by holding a rally at a non-union shop. >> workers of america are getting, to put it very nicely, screwed. you're getting screwed. yesterday, joe biden came to michigan to pose for photos at the picket line. but it is his policies that send michigan autoworkers to the unemployment line. >> it seems like the uaw maybe disagrees when meant mr. trump, which may be one of the reasons how today unfolded as it did. joining me now, biden white house press secretary. it is great to have you on set in person on a day like today. >> good to see you, alex. >> i will not violate the hashtag. we are very cognizant of that

as well. >> we try to follow the law. >> let me ask you about the endorsement, not so much in the campaign context, but there is a narrative that democrats, republicans are the populist party. it is a poisonous narrative if you compared to the reality of things. i wonder if you think that biden is really at a turning point in terms of disproving that narrative, and re-centering the democratic party and other people's minds on the notion of populism. >> let me first say, president biden is known as the most pro-union president in modern times. this is not a title he has given himself. this is a title that other union members and unions have given him. that is because of the work that he's done. that is because he has put, that when you think about the middle class, he says the unions have built the middle class. and he talks about how we need to build the middle class from the bottom up. he's said those words, he's walked the top, and he did it

as a senator, he did it as bus president, and with the last three years of this administration, he has been very clear that we shouldn't leave anybody behind. it is important as we are creating jobs that there are good paying union jobs on many of those jobs you do not need a college education, and you are seeing. that you are seeing that in the economic data. especially as you see wages go up. 14 million jobs created under this president. and he does this all the time. when you think about the economy, he talks about how we have to have equity at the center of it. because we cannot leave the communities who've been left behind, they cannot be left behind anymore. and we know that trickle down economics does not work. he speaks to it, he lives it, and you see that. you see that just listening to the president of the uaw. >> i mean, i know this may seem like an exercise to people like donald trump is for photos, it is the first time that a president walked the picket line. that was not without political

risk. >> walk the picket line, stood there with workers, making sure that he was with them as they were fighting for their contracts for better pay, better benefits, that something that this president believes in. it is incredibly important. he says this all the time. it's important that union members fight and get the contract, and they make the money, and get the benefits that they deserve. >> i gotta bring this up, and know the president noticed it, he was interrupted by pro palestinian protesters today. this is the second time in the week that this happened. the death toll in gaza is 25,400. a huge number of that is children. does president biden feel like he should be held accountable for it wore that the united states has supported through weapon? >> i'll say this, the president talked about this when he did his oval address. the lives, innocent lives,

innocent palestinian lives that are being lost, these children that you just laid out, it's devastating. we are talking about children being killed, we are talking about children who are now orphaned, and when life is too many. one life is too many. and it is devastating to hear. and as it relates to the protest, obviously the president, you heard the president say this, that we respect the rights of americans to protest peacefully. at the same time, when you think about what happened on october 7th, when you think about the devastating attack that happened by hamas, which is a terrorist organization, we got to remember that, we gotta remember they are a terrorist organization. leaders in that organization have said that they want to see october 7th happened over and over again. we are going to support israel as they defend themselves. they have to do it. they have to do it in a more precise way. they have to make sure that

they protect civilian lives. that's why the president is continuing to have those conversations. that's why we are making sure that we are doing everything we can to see another humanitarian pause. we want to see another humanitarian pause so we can get american hostages home so that we can get the much-needed humanitarian aid into gaza, whether it is medical needs, whether it is other important needs that they need to survive to live. we are doing that, and we are going to make sure that those conversations continue. we have the security council who is in doha today. he was in cairo yesterday being part of those conversations that are happening with the region, the regional partners, and also, obviously, with israel and hamas. >> i think that a lot of people would say of terrorism, and rooting out terrorism, the goal here is not slaughtering 25,000 people, actually a terrorist recruitment ad for hamas. and destroying all

universities. >> i hear that, i hear that, it is a good question to ask. we do not want to see any more innocent lives lost. that is, like i said, children, mothers, innocent people being murdered, that's why we are having those conversations. and as they are defending themselves, they have to do it within the international humanitarian law. it is important and critical to do that. we want to have another humanitarian pause. we want to have another one so that we can bring hostages home to their family and get that humanitarian aid. one life lost is too many. >> and there have been considerably more than one or two lives lost. there's so many things to talk about. there is breaking news this evening tonight, minority leader and the senate appears to be backing away from the immigration and ukraine funding deal that has been bandied about under, behind closed doors, we are not sure exactly what is in it.

they are reporting that mcconnell is seeing the politics on this deal has changed. it's all about trump. he referred to trump as the nominee. he noted the former president wants to run his 2024 campaign centered on immigration. they do not want to do anything to undermine trump's candidacy. do you have a thought on that? does the white house have a position on this potential thing in service to trump? >> understand this is reporting, and i want to be very mindful and careful of what i can say, you've seen from this administration for the past couple of weeks, past couple of months that both republicans and democrats, they were happening, or are happening as far as i know in good faith. we appreciated those conversations, and we continue to hopefully get their, get to a bipartisan agreement, that is the only way we are going to be able to deal with the border security issue that we are seeing. i also want to remind folks who are watching that on the first day of this president

administration, he introduced an immigration plan because he understood, and new, as many of us do, that immigration systems have been broken for decades and we needed to actually deal with it in the legislative way. unfortunately, congress didn't act three years have passed but we've been in these conversations with negotiations with the democrats in the senate. so i will just leave it there for now. >> yes. perhaps surprising, no one, the republicans might like to keep immigration alive as a campaign football for their quarterback, donald trump. but i will not ask you to violate that. let it be said that you came on the show, and we didn't violate it. although someone on the internet is probably going to say that we did. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> coming up later in the show, an upcoming book reveals kind of wild new details about lindsey graham's private testimony and donald trump georgia 2020 election conspiracy case.

but first, nikki haley is going home. is she going to stay there? more on that, next. o stay there more on that, next more on that, next behave yourself. like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you'll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just not have to worry and face themselves with

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not just any whiteboard... ...katie porter's whiteboard is one way she's: [news anchor] ...often seen grilling top executives of banks, big pharma, even top administration officials. katie porter. never taken corporate pac money - never will. leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks” that fund politicians' pet projects. katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. >> we were very excited last i'm katie porter and i approve this message. night, because we thought we had gone up 25 points in a month, and donald trump got out there and just threw a temper tantrum.

he pitched a fifth. he was insulting, he was doing what he does, but i know that that is what he does when he's insecure, i know that's what he does when he is threatened, and he should feel threatened. without a doubt. >> that was former south carolina governor, nikki haley tonight. one day after losing to donald trump in new hampshire primary by 11 points. governor haley has now set her sights on the primary in her home state of south carolina, and what may be her last chance to prove she could beat donald trump. today, the lead strategist for the super pac that is supporting nikki haley tried to lower expectations, saying their goal in the state is continuing to grow our support. in other words, the super pac does not have high hopes that governor haley will actually win the state where she served as governor for six years. with a month left to go until south carolina president biden is already looking to pick off some of governor haley supporters. in a statement last night, president biden implored anti

trump republicans from supporting haley a new hampshire to join us as americans. joining me now, susan glasser, staff writer at the new yorker, and jonathan martin, senior political columnist for politico. john martin, can you tell me a bit about what south carolinians think of their governor? no, i'm sure this divides somewhat along partisan lines, but it sounds like democrats don't exactly have a hugely favorable opinion of their former governor. >> yeah. i mean, governor haley's challenge is going to be that the democrats and the estate who are engaged in politics to vote in a february primary are going to recall the governorship and not very fondly, given that they are partisans. look, she's gotta be relying on the same coalition that she put together in new hampshire, which is basically a quarter of republicans, and every independent you can get, who mostly wants to vote for you as a vehicle to embarrass donald trump. it daughter about 43% in new hampshire, i think that it will

be hard for her to get that much in south carolina with the same coalition, because there's just not as many of those independent voters in south carolina, and one more, one more thing, this is crucial, joe biden is running in the primary, and unlike new hampshire, and he is going to turn out some of those independent voters to vote for him earlier in the month, because the primaries are on a different day for the democrats, and guess what? when those folks vote in the democratic primary they cannot then vote three weeks later in the republican primary. i raise that, because biden can effectively deprive haley of votes that she will need, because you have got to pick one of the two primaries to vote if you are in south carolina. >> that is such an interesting point that i think not a lot of people have focused on. susan, do you think, i think that biden haley relationship is kind of interesting. on one hand, it seems like you can benefit them to have at least a trump's or an outright critic in the republican primary just to remind voters

of who donald trump is if no one else will. and, subsequently, trump's treatment of haley could actually drive some police supporters to biden in the end. but there is the question of whether it is not better for the biden campaign to just have this thing be over with and have trump as the general election nominee, and go forward from there. >> absolutely, alex. i was just thinking that when you are asking a question, on the one hand you have donald trump attacking her very viciously as he is going to do, calling her bird brain and she's out there today and south carolina doing something that seems right out of the biden campaign scrape, talking about donald trump's mental competency, questioning his volatility, the chaos that comes alongside donald trump in some ways, this is exactly what any democratic campaigner would be saying right now. so it seems to serve the overall interest of anyone who wants to see anyone but donald trump to be elected president this fall at the same time.

i notice the biden campaign, and biden himself were very quick yesterday to decree the gop primary is over and done within donald trump, the effective, the defect o nominee, the same thing that donald trump is saying, because i think that it isn't democrats interest. their campaign plan is basically too scary but jesus out of the country that donald trump could be coming back, and nikki haley interrupts the narrative and interrupts the campaign plan for democrats. >> in the interim, nikki haley theoretically has to withstand the full onslaught of donald trump, she being the only object that is standing in her way of the nomination. tonight, on truth social, trump is saying anyone who makes a contribution to, she is calling her bird brain, from this moment for, if it is a very king like, will be permanently barred from the maga camp. we do not want them, and will not accept them because we put america first, and always well. it is always comic, jonathan,

the language, the threats, but it does have residents, doesn't it? i guess if you are a maga person? republican? >> american politics there are some things that you said out loud and some that you said behind closed doors it was called the proverbial -- trump says i'm out loud now, like we are going to cut off and not give access to anybody who cuts a check for nikki haley from this day forth, it is like wanting to have your emissaries say that privately to a donor, but for the candidate himself, the former president to say publicly, it tells you everything about trump's willingness to break so many american political rules. it is trump, though, is he going to forgive and forget? probably. he plans not to have a very long memory when it comes to folks. but look, obviously he's furious now that haley won't get out, and he is going to be, and i think, one of the toughest, nastiest south

carolina primaries that we have seen, because you can just tell from the tenor of trump's tone that he is going to bring in everything at her, and i think she's going to be happy to head back, and if this thing really does go for the full month here, what trump is going to do is that he will beat nikki haley, but he will give the biden folks a lot for that. he will say stuff about nikki haley, a lot of it with changed, with gender type attacks, that the biden folks will happily play over and over again for months to come. >> this is exactly what i vaguely was mentioning to you, susan, he's already -- tonight, yesterday, tonight, he is demeaning her and profoundly transparent way, is talking about address, calling her bird brain, you know? calling her an impostor. that is going to get ratcheted up. it is going to go on steroids between now and the republican primary, and that is great for biden because it just reveals

trump to be a hard-core massage interest. >> he doesn't care that we think is a hard-core massaging-est. it is the problem, alex. donald trump has one political playbook. and it is to whip his own supporters into a frenzy. he believes that masaji place for him politically. he's not afraid of it. he's seeking it out. this is a man who, without shame, it's attending his own civil trial, defamation case in new york city where he's already been found guilty of doing the vile things to a woman and then impugning her by speaking his truths about it again and again. he is not afraid of the label of misogynists. he is all about his base. he's all about playing the kind of nasty bullying politics that he believes has gotten him a following. he wants his people to turn out

in droves in november and what others may see as an advantage for the biden general election campaign, donald trump is playing his playbook which is not at all about this, he's not interested, unfortunately, and what you and i think about him mostly misogynists. >> or what independent voters in key swing states may think, which might be a problem for the trump campaign. we will talk about this more, susan and jonathan stick around we have a lot more to talk about. like the awkward encounter between lindsey graham and fani willis, which has been detailed in an upcoming new book, and might just lined the senator and some hot water with the maga camp. we will have more on that right after the break. on that righ after the break. after the break. try olay regenerist for 10 benefits in every jar. olay visibly firms, lifts, and smooths wrinkles, by penetrating the skin, to boost regeneration at the surface cellular level. try olay.

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exactly what senator lindsey graham told the georgia special grand jury when he testified behind closed doors, as part of the investigation into trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. but according to an upcoming book by michael's cloth, first previewed in political, senator lindsey graham turned on a dime and through trump under the bus. do you remember how senator graham went from publicly disavowing donald trump in the wake of january six, two casting aspersions on the people trying to instigate the insurrection? apparently, when the cameras aren't rolling, mr. graham isn't a true believer. he reportedly told d.a. fani

willis and the special grand jury that if you told trump that martians came and stole the election, he would probably believe you. according to one witness after mr. graham was done testifying, he thanked d.a. willis outside the courtroom for the opportunity to testify and said, that was so cathartic. i feel so much better. he then proceeded to hug the ableist. her reaction, according to a witness, was whatever dude. today an aide for lindsey graham denied the reporting and he remains among the 29 senators who have endorsed donald trump to be the next republican nominee. back with mayor susan glasser, and jonathan. jonathan, i wonder if you have -- what do you make of the path owes on display as it's been reported by michael, and -- in their book. >> two fantastic reporters, the martian's line sign sounds quite like the lindsey graham that susan and i know.

it definitely sounds like his sense of humor and sensibility. doesn't surprise me in the least. these all pros like lindsey graham get the deal with trump, they know what he is and they have long ago made their bargain. i mean, you know, news and weather at 11 this is part of the course for them. the fact that he said it to a grand jury obviously is a little bit more consequential. but, alex, this is the stuff that republican lawmakers say every day in private on capitol hill about trump. they are doing it now for nine years now. it goes on, and on and on, and apparently doing it now. because trump is poised to be the nominee. >> there is a thing that he was saying to a grand jury, susan. he founded cathartic. in context with what unfolded last night on trump's victory stage, i'm talking about tim scott sort of being self basing

himself as you characterize it in the new yorker, and vivek ramaswamy who was put on a timer by the coach trump. i mean, i don't understand what is in it for them, susan? an appointment in an administration that they will be dismissed from, or put under investigation from, in a senate hearing. what is the game, susan glasser? >> you know, alex, this is the great psychological question mark of the last few years. these big man, tim scott, a big man, what is he so afraid of? what are they so afraid of? is donald trump gonna punch him in the nose if he doesn't suck up to him like that? there is plenty of job, work, ambition and power available to those who don't humiliate themselves by licking donald trump's boots in public. i mean -- even though it is a familiar

dynamic, you know, he is right, lindsey graham's quote, we've all heard him say versions of this. the cynical in nature of the bargain between so many republican senators and donald trump, it still hasn't penetrated, i think, that alternate media universe that exist for trump's voters and the maga universe. they somehow don't understand that these senators are laughing behind their backs at donald trump, and they are laughing at them, the voters. and yet, they are willing to do endless amount of public sucking up. really, i've watched this game play out for a while, it's notable to me how quickly the republican elected officials are falling in line behind donald trump here in washington, on capitol hill. they believe, clearly, that the election is over. they must take trump seriously,

in his very overt explicit threats to them that they will be on the outside of a second trump administration if they don't fall in line. >> at the groveling, it's just humiliating. >> their voters like trump, and they will follow their voters. >> even if they are self respect is on the line, apparently. >> or in the case of vivek, the apollo scene, where they grabbed the court from you if you speak for too long. >> susan glasser, jonathan markton, thank you for your time tonight. coming up, mark she like nikki haley i will be traveling to south carolina tomorrow, i will not be fighting for my political life. but i will be interviewing a very special guest. i will tell you who it is coming up next. coming up next it's a quick and easy way to get my floors clean. wetjet absorbs and locks grime deep inside. look at that! swiffer wetjet.

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geography. are you ready? do you know where lafitte county texas is? about odesa? mitchell? cochrane? or dawson county? here is a hint, they're all counties and cities in texas that are right on the border with new mexico,or just a stone's throw away. they are localities that sit on a major interstate highways, like the i-20. and not coincidentally, they have all recently made it illegal to help a pregnant person travel for an abortion in another state. texas already has one of the

most restrictive abortion bans in this country. but now, you cannot help transport a pregnant texan to say new mexico where abortion is legal if you travel through any of those counties and cities. one of the man behind these ordinances, texas's antiabortion activists mark lee dixon has called these laws just the next logical projection in the effort to end abortion in america. a tennessee state house republican introduced legislation that would make it a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison to transport a minor out of state for an abortion. last week a republican oklahoma state senator introduced a similar abortion travel bans with a 2 to 5-year prison sentence. the fact that one political party could force americans to remain pregnant and then restrict their movement sounds like the stuff of margaret atwood's nightmare. it is also one of the most

animating issues of the 2024 elections. three months after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade i talked to gavin newsom. one of president biden top surrogates about what democrats need to do about these republican bands. >> they need to be called out, they shouldn't be able to get away with it. they can't claim to be pro-life when they are pro birth. they can't claim to a brace and celebrate freedom when they are denying freedom for women and girls and their reproductive rights. >> i will be in south carolina, the state that made -- and the state that could mark the very end of the republican primary this year. i'll be checking in with governor newsom about the democrat strategy on abortion. trump's grip on the republican party, and a lot, lot more, just ahead of the 2024 election. it will be a great conversation, stay tuned tomorrow at nine pm. that is our show for this evening, now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, al.