i know that's what he does when he's threatened. and he should feel threatened, without a doubt. >> [applause] >> we're going to see also with that, if she's going to stay focused on him sharply, it is going to be the other question, at least for the next few days. >> yeah, it's not like she won easy on him last night, or in that clip you just played. but she's not really getting to the nub of why she -- >> no, that's right. >> why is she still in the race? she will get there. it will be interesting. >> that will be very interesting. i would love her to just say it, like, do we want a nominee who's indicted on multiple felonies flash will maybe be convicted? oh, i don't know, during the rnc or a few weeks before it? i wish point, they are going to be furious with the lid furiousi that's going to be my favorite plot twist in this. alex wagner tonight begins right now. good evening, alex. >> she hasn't said the phrase 91 felony counts ever. >> that's a great point. >> i mean she hasn't said it at all. >> can youd imagine it's very

funny i to think about another situation, like a job interview someone just being like, oh, yeah there's one more thing, i'm facing 91 counts. >> yeah, i mean. anyway. >> don't worry about it. we're going to't figure it out. >> thank you, my friend. thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. if you are a person who does not think a convicted felon should be running for the country, you might think of this statistics as a glachls half empty kind of number. in an exit poll yesterday 51% of voters said if donald trump were tors be convicted of a crime th would still consider him fit to be president. don't get me wrong, that's not a sign of a healthy democracy. a majority of new hampshire's republican primary voters would not care if trump ends up a convicted p felon. by the way, that would also mean that donald trump, a florida

resident, would not be able to vote for himself as a convicted felon, although 54% of new hampshire republican voters stillbl would. elections in ial this country aren't won by a majority of republicans or a majority of democrats. they are won in the margins. they are won with the centrists, the swing voters, and the independents. an analysis by "the washington post" showed that this election could come downt to just a coue hundred thousand voters in just seven or eight states. again,ig that is also not a sig of a healthy democracy in the big picture, but in the short term it is why there might be a more optimistic way of reading that exitof polling we just gotf new hampshire last week. at least if you're someone who believes convicted felons don't belong in the white house. put another way a sizable percent of new hampshire primary voters, ry42% of them said they

would not see trump fit for office if he's convicted of a crime. last week in iowa 31% of caucus goers said the same.id the odds are this election is going to come down to just a few percentage points of votes in a few key states. even if that 42% in new hampshire is high and even if the 31% in iowa is high, even if that number or those numbers drop precipitously when the general electionre rolls around which it probably will, even if thosell numbers are a fifth of where they stand today, that could still be enough to alter the outcome of this election. so the trials really matter here. whether or not donald trump ends convicted felon, the trials could be the thing that pushes swing voters to vote for biden or to stay home rather than voting for donald trump. that isor twrsh of course, if trump actually sees a courtroom before the election. should qualify that statement by saying mr. trump will be in some

courtrooms before the election. he's expected today be back in a new york courtroom tomorrow in yet another civilor case for th continued defamation hearing from writer e. jean carroll. my question here is will donald trump see a trial in a criminal case before the 2024 election? by far the simplest most straightforward criminal case is a mar-a-lago classified documents case. that case is at least hypothetically set to go on trial may 20th. but every legal expert we've talked to recently believes the judge in that case, judge aileen cannon is likely to allow trump to delay it and delay it and delay it. last weekla trump's legal team asked judge cannon to broaden the scope of discovery in this case dramatically, which is a move that could delay the trial

even more. down in georgia where fulton county district attorney fani willis is prosecuting trump and his allies for election interference in a rico conspiracy case, willis has asked the court for a august 5th trialau date. that trial date also faces delays as trump's codefendants is trying to get d.a. willis and her entire team of prosecutors taken off the case alleging misconduct. so both of a those trial dates e very much up in the air. the case that most legal experts believe is likely to go to trial before the election, special counsel jack smith's federal election interference case. as of today, that start date is also in question. that trial was originally scheduled to begin on march 4th. it isin expected to take around three months t start to finish. but that case has been effectively frozen fore six wes while trump's claim of presidential immunity makes its

way through the appeals process. and that appeals process has taken its sweet, sweet time. yesterday the same appeals court denied a different appeal by mr. trump, which was getting rid of his gag order. it took thef appeals court 36 days to come to that decision whether or not to rehear trump's argument that he should be able to threaten witnesses, attorneys, and court a personne. and i'mnd not a judge but it so of feels like a straightforward decision here.ci but still 36 days. now that same appeals court heard oral arguments on the presidential immunity issue on january 9th, which was by my clock 15 days ago. who knows how long it'll take the court to decide on that matter. and even once theon appeals cou decision is done, the decision will almost definitely be appealed to thell supreme court and who t knows how long they might take to make a decision. all the while this case will be frozen. so what does that portend for thaten march 4th start date?

well, today we got a big clue.ll today the judge in that case, judge tanya chutkan scheduled an april 2nd trial date for a different defendant. given that trump's trial is expected to last around three months, thato suggests that chutkan sees it as unlikely that trump's trial will start at any time before mid-april at best. thel wheels of justice turn slowly, and that reality is running smack into the political reality we are facing as a country, a potentially critical number of american voters are sayingot that a conviction woul really, ely matter to them as far as electing the next president, but the way things are going here between the courts and the defendant's endless delay tactics, will a conviction come too late? joining me now is former attorney general eric holder. mr. attorney general, thank you

so much for joining me tonight. i'm sure you saw the same numbers i s saw about americans and a fairly strong belief on the part of a not insignificant number of voters that the convictions t matter. i got to ask you as a former top justice department a official, e top, do you think the department of justice took too long in really starting its investigation of donald trump and his inner circle in earnest? >> well, you know, i don't know exactly what was going in the justice department or what processes they were going through. i can say once jack smith was brought on theicates the case has moved in i think a very -- a fast manner, and they've moved things along. and so i think the focus that you raise is a legitimate one, and i think that legitimate prosneeds to proceed in l such

way the p american people have this piece of vital information before them. these cases can be delegated in such a way they are fast tracked. there's other cases where that has occurred as well. anded i would think given wheree stand now and close to some of the elections i would hope the courts would move these cases along as they did not do during mr. trump's term in office where he successfully played the courts and delayed, delayed and delayed. >> what do you make of this 36 days to decide on whether to rehear trump's gag order appeal? i mean, again, i'm not a lawyer. i play one on television badly. it seemed like a long time for a fairly straightforward decision,

andgh at the same time we still don't have a ruling on this presidential immunity question 15 days later. >> well, i was a trial judge. i've never been an appellate judge, so i don't know all the dynamics that go on between the three individuals who heard these cases, but it seems to me it shouldn't take an awful long period of time to decide them. we talk about this presidential immunity case, and it's something that wasas raised som monthsat ago. we've talked about it for a pretty long period of time, but if youpe step back and look at what the claim is, there's really not much there there. this is a case i think can be decided -- should be decided, you know, relatively quickly. and my hope would be that would be the case so that the necessary appeals can be filed and the judicial system can get through the case and actually put this case before a jury. >> you say it should be decided quickly, i think for some of us onor the outside who are neithe trial lawyers and appellate

lawyers, it doesn't seem like it'll move quickly. at this point it's can it move? does 15 days seem like a long time to s you, or is that relatively expeditious? given the time frame we're operating in, are we still in the realm of this potentially being moved quickly if they hand down a decision 25 days later? >> 25 days, 30 days i would say that was fairly expeditious. but the reality for me i never thought the march trial date in washington was likely to actually occur. there were going to be delays i thought of some nature. andom so my belief has always bn this is a case likely to go to trial in may or in june. and soin from my own perspectivi think the case is still -- you know, is still i on track. >> can i get your thoughts on something that the conservative judge, michael luding, it was

never i contemplated that the courts would have to defend themselves against such a belligerent defendant president and they're powerless to defend themselves against it. on the other side of this if they don't rule in trump's favor it's an enormous amount of pressure on them from the other side of the aisle, if you will. and i wonder what you make of that. again, i know you're not a former appeals court lawyer, but just as someone who understands the sort of mechanisms of justice and the role these judges are now playing, and in some ways holding aloft american democracy, what do you make of that assessment on the part of judge ludig? >> i'm pretty confident all the judges involved in these cases i'm talking about the appellate judges now will decide these cases as quickly as they can in

a fair way. i don't think they'll be intimidated, you know, by the trump maga people. i don't think that is ap conce. but he's right. you know, the judicial system is not really equipped to push back in a way that the executive branch can if there are attacks brought against it by members of congress or political parties. that is just the way we have designed our system. and so i think it's incumbent on the courts. that's another reason why they need to expedite these matters so they don't subject themselves to an unnecessarily long period of criticism, because that has a long-term negative impact on the per censionga of the courts. if for instance the delay goes on for two, three months and you have just these withering unfounded attacks on our judicial system, that will have a collateral impact on the system itself. >> letst me ask you one more question just as a sort of matter of course, the 14th amendment case is going to be heard atdm the supreme court i believe two weeks from tomorrow

on february 8th. there have been a number of amicus briefs filed. the biden department of justice has not filed an amicus brief. now, on its face i sort of understand the political implications of the biden administration weighing in on a decision that could greatly benefit skbroesi biden dependin on what the court rules if they take donald trump off the ballot. but as a matter of import for the federal government and a big constitutional question, it seems unusual at best that the department of justice hasn't weighed in on this from a sort of a institutional point of vie. are you surprised by it? >> no, not really. i mean i do think that, yeah, you would think that in a case of that magnitude where the justice department had a relevantme interest that they would weigh in with an amicus brief of some sort. on the other hand, i don't think we can divorce this case from the political reality that the biden administration, generally, the justice department more specifically faces. and i think thesp decision of t

determination by the executive branch not to comment on the case, not to be involved in that componentin of the case makes a great deal of sense. the justice department wants to be seen as only trying to case, applying the facts, dealing with the law, and making, you know, the case in that way, not to be a part of, you know, some effort to get him off the ballot. i think that might be something in aat different context the justice department will want to commentrt upon, but in this context silence is probably the best policy. >> former attorney general eric holder, it's invaluable to have your perspective in moments like these. i really appreciateme your time tonight. >> thank you. there is much more to get to this evening including nikki haley who is still standing after her second place finish id new hampshire last night. we're going to talk about what happened when she was governor of south carolina and how that might foretell what happens in

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through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. donald trump is a scam! donald trump is a billionaire, and that's who he represents. and this choice is clear. joe biden bet on the american worker while donald trump blamed the american worker. >> that was the president of the united auto worker's union shawn fain endorsing president biden

this afternoon. biden has been edging toward that since september when he became the first american president to join a picket line in support of auto workers striking for higher wages. donald trump one day later made his own attempt to appeal to blue collar workers by holding a rally at a non-union shop. >> workers of america are getting -- put it very nicely -- screwed. you're getting screwed. yesterday joe biden came to michigan to pose for photos at the picket line, but it's his policies that send michigan auto workers to the unemployment line. >> it seems like the uaw maybe disagrees plump which may be one of the reasons today unfolded the way it did. joining me now is karrin jean pierre. >> i'm not going to violate the

hatch act. we're cognizant of that, i know you are as well. >> try to be. >> let me ask you about the endorsement not so much in the campaign context but there's this narrative that republicans are the populous party. it's a poisonous narrative if you compare it to the reality of things. i wonder if you think biden is at a turning point in terms of disproving that narrative and recenturing the democratic party in other people's minds on the notion of populism. >> let me first say that president biden is known as the most pro-union president in modern times. this is not a title he has given himself. this is a title other union members and unions have given him and that's because of the work that he's done. that's because he put that -- when you think about the middle class he says unions has built the middle class, right? he talks about how we feed to build the middle class from the

bottom up and middle out. he's walked the talk and did it as a senator and the last three years of this administration he's been very clear we should not leave anybody behind, it is important as we're creating jobs there are good paying union jobs that many of those jobs you do not need a good college education, and you're seeing that in the economic data especially as you see wages go up, more than 14 million jobs created under this president, and he does this all the time. when you think about the economy, he talks about we have to have equity at the center of it, because we cannot leave -- many communities who have been left behind cannot be left behind anymore and we see that. we know trickle down economics does not work. so he speaks to it, he lives it, and you see that. you see that just listening to the president of the uaw. >> he was the first president -- i know this may seem like a pro forma exercise to people, but it's the first time a president has walked the picket line.

that is not without political risk. >> walked the picket line, stood there with workers and made sure he was with them as they were fighting for their contracts for better pay, better benefits. that is something that this president believes in. it is incredibly important, and he says this all the time. it is important that union members fight and get the contract and they make the money and get the benefits that they deserve. >> yeah. i've got to bring this up because i know the president noticed it. he was interrupted by propalestinian protesters today, the uaw. it's the second time this week it's happened. the death toll in gaza is 24,500. a huge number of that is children. does president biden feel like he should be held accountable that a war that the united states has supported through weaponry and rhetoric? >> i'll say this and the president talked about this when he did his oval address and the

lives, innocent lives, innocent palestinian lives being lost, these children that you just laid out, is devastated. we're talking about children being killed, children being orphaned, and one life is too many. one life is too many, and it is devastating to hear. and as it relates to the protest, obviously the president and you heard the president say this, is that, you know, we -- we respect the rights of americans to protest peacefully. at the same time -- at the same time, when you think about what happened on october 7th, when you think about the devastating attack that happened by hamas, which is a terrorist organization, we've got to remember that -- we've got to remember that they are a terrorist organization that have said leaders in that organization have said they want to see october 7th happen over and over again. so we're going to support israel as they defend themselves. they have to do it. they have to do it in a more precise way. they have to make sure that they

protect civilian lives. that's why the president continue tuesday have that conversation, and that's why we're making sure that we're doing everything that we can to see another humanitarian pause. we want to see another humanitarian pause so we can get american hostages home, so we can get that much needed humanitarian aid into gaza, whether it's medical needs, whether it's other important needs they need to survive and to live, so we're doing that. and we're going to make sure those conversations continue. we have brett, a former national security council in doha today and cairo yesterday being part of those conversations tat are happening with the region -- regional partners and obviously with israel and huhos. >> i'm not going to believe the point, but i think a lot of people would say terrorism and ending terrorism and rooting out terrorists here is not slotting 35,000 people actually a terrorist recruitment ad for

hamas and destroying all universities. >> i hear that. and it's a good question to ask. we do not want to see anymore innocent lives lost. that is like i said children, mothers, innocent people being murdered, and that's why we're having those conversations. and as they are defending themselves and we're going to support israel defending themselves, they have to do it within the international humanitarian law. it is important and critical do that. we want to have another humanitarian pause, we want to have another one so we can bring hostages home to their family and get that humanitarian aid. one life lost is too many. >> and there have been considerably more. there's so many things to talk tattoo about. there is some breaking newsorit the senate mitch mcconnell appears to be backing away from the immigration and ukraine funding deal that has been bandied about under -- sort of behind closed doors. i'm not sure exactly what's in

it. the punch bowl is reporting that mcconnell is saying the politics on this deal have changed. it is all about trump. he referred to trump as the nominee and noted that the former president wants to run his 2024 campaign centered on immigration, and they don't want to do anything to undermine trump's candidacy. do you have a thought on that? like does the white house have a position on this potentially falling apart in service to trump? >> i understand this is the reporting, and i want to be really mindful and careful here. what i can say is what you've seen from this administration for the past couple of weeks, couple of months is negotiation happening with the senate both republicans and democrat, they were happening or are happening as far as i know in good faith, and we appreciated those conversations, and we continue to hopefully get there, get to a bipartisan agreement. that's the only way we're going to be able to deal with the border security issue that we're seeing. and i also want to remind folks who are watching that on the first day of this president's

administration, he introduced a comprehensive immigration plan because he understood and knew, right, as many of us do that immigration system had been broken for decades and we needed to actually deal with it in a legislative way. and so, unfortunately, congress did not act. three years have passed, but we've been in these conversations and negotiations with both republicans and democrats in the senate. and so i'm just going to leave it there for now. >> yeah, perhaps surprising exactly no one the republicans might like to keep immigration alive as a campaign football for their quarterback donald trump. but i'm not going to ask you to violate the hatch act, karine jean pierre. it's a pleasure as always. thank you so much for your time. >> thanks for having me. coming up later in the show an upcoming book reveals kind of wild new details about lindsey graham's private testimony in donald trump's georgia 2020 election conspiracy case.

but first, nikki haley is going home. is she going to stay there? more on that next. ng to stay the more on that next. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

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we were very excited last night because we saw we'd gone up 25 points in a month, and then donald trump got out there and just threw a temper tantrum. he pitched a fit.

he was insulting. he was doing what he does, but i know that's what he does when he's insecure. i know that's what he does when he is threatened, and he should feel threatened wouta doubt. >> that was former south carolina governor nikki haley tonight, one day after losing to donald trump in the new hampshire primary by 11 points. governor haly has now set her sights on the primary in her home state of south carolina in what may be her last chance to prove she can beat donald trump. today the lead strategist for the super pac that's supporting nikki haley tried to lower expectations saying their goal in the state is to continue to grow our support. in other words the super pac does not have high hopes governor haley will actually win the state where she served as governor for six years. with a month left to go until south carolina, president biden is already looking to pick-off some of governor haley's supporters. in a statement last night president biden implored anti-trump republicans who

supported haley in new hampshire to join us as americans. joining me now susan glasser, staff writer at "the new yorker," and thonthen martin, senior political columnist for politico. jonathan martin, can you talk to me a little bit about what south carolinans think of their governor. >> governor haley's challenge is going to be democrats in a state engaged in politic tuesday vote in a february primary are going to recall her governorship and probably not very fondly given their partisans. look, she's going to be relying on the same coalition she put the governor in new hampshire, which is basely a quarter of republicans and every independent you can get who mostly wants to vote for you as a vehicle to embarrass donald trump. it got her about 43% in new hampshire. i think it's going to be hard

for her to get that much in south carolina with the same coalition, alex, because there's not as many of those independent voters in south carolina, and one more thing and this is crucial, joe biden is running in the primary in south carolina unlike new hampshire, and he's going to turn out some of those independent voters to vote for him earlier in the month because the primary is on a different day for the democrats. and guess what? when those folks vote in a democratic primary, they cannot then vote three weeks later in the republican primary. i raise that because biden can effectively deprive haley of votes that she'll need because you've got to pick one of the two primaries to vote in if you're in south carolina. >> that is such an interesting point that i think not a lot of people have focused on. susan, do you think -- i think the biden-haley relationship is kind of interesting, right? on one hand it seems it would benefit him to have at least a trump scold if not an outright critic in the republican primary

just to remind voters of who donald trump is if no one else will. and subsequently i think trump's treatment of haley could drive some haley supporters to biden in the end. but there is a question whether it's not better for the biden campaign to have this thing be over with and have trump as the general election nominee and go forward from there. >> absolutely, alex. i was just thinking that when you were asking the question. on the one hand you have donald trump attacking her very viciously as he's wanted to do, calling her birdbrain and the like. she's out there today in south carolina doing something that seems like right out of the biden campaign script talking about donald trump's mental competency, questioning his volatility, the chaos that comes alongside donald trump. in some ways, right, this is exactly what any democratic campaigner would be saying right now, so it seems to serve the overall interests of anyone who wants to see anyone but donald trump to be elected president this fall. at the same time i notice that the biden campaign and biden

himself were very quick yesterday to declare the gop primary race over and done with and donald trump the effective, the de facto nominee, the same thing that donald trump is saying because i think it is in democrats' interest. their campaign plan is basically to scare the bejesus out of the country that donald trump could be coming back. and in that sense nikki haley interrupts the narrative and interrupts the campaign plan for democrats. >> yeah, and i mean in the interim nikki haley theoretically has to withstand the full onslaught of donald trump sheathing the only object standing in way of his nomination. tonight on truth social trump is saying anyone that makes a contribution to, and he's calling her birdbrain from this moment forth, it sounds very king-like doesn't it, will be permanently barred from the maga camp. we don't want and will not accept them because we put america first and always will. i mean it's almost comic, jonathan, like the language here

and the threats. it does have resonance, doesn't it, i guess if you're a maga person, a republican? >> this is like american politics for 200-plus years existed in a way there were some things you said out loud, other things you said behind closed doors. it was calleded the proverbial smoke-filled room. trump says them out loud now. we're going to cut off and not give access to anybody who cuts a check for nikki haley. it's like having one adversary say that privately to a donor but for the candidate himself and former president to say it publicly it tells you everything about trump's role in this to break so many american political rules. it's trump, though. is he going to forgive and forget? probably. he tends not to have a very long memory when it comes to folks. obviously he's furious now that haley won't get out, and this is going to be i think one of the toughest, nastiest, south

carolina primaries that we've seen because you can just tell from the tenor of trump's tone that he's going to bring everything at her, and i think she is going to be happy to hit back. and, look, if this thing really does go for the full month here, what trump's going to do is he'll beat nikki haley, but he's going to give the biden folks a lot -- he will say stuff about nikki haley, a lot of it tinged with gender, you know, type attacks, but the biden folks will happily play over and over again for months to come. >> exactly. and this is what i was sort of vaguely mentioning to you, susan. yesterday, tonight he's demeaning her in just profoundly transparent ways talking about her dress, calling her birdbrain, calling her an impostor, and that's going to get ratcheted up. that's going to go on steroids between now and the republican primary, and that's great for biden because it just reveals

trump to be a, you know, a hard core misogynist ultra. >> he doesn't care that we think he's a hard core misogynist is the problem, alex. donald trump has one political play book, and with his own supporters into a frenzy. he believes misogyny plays for him politically. he's not afraid of it. he's seeking it out. this is a man who without shame is attending his own civil trial defamation case in new york city where he's already been found guilty of, you know, doing vile things to a woman and then impugning her by speaking mistruths about it again and again and again. he's not afraid of the label of misogynist. he is all about his base, he's all about playing the kind of nasty, bullying politics that he believes has gotten him a following. he wants his people to turn out in droves in november.

and what others may see as an advantage for the biden general election campaign, donald trump is playing his playbook, which is not at all about those voters. he's not interested, unfortunately, in what you and i think about him as a misogynist. >> or what independent voters in key swing states might think, which might be a problem for the trump campaign. we're going to talk about this more. susan and jonathan, please stick around. we have a lot more to talk about like the awkward encounter between lindsey graham and fani willis, which has been detailed in an upcoming new book and might just land the senator in some hot water with the maga camp. we'll have more on that right after the break. camp we'll have more on that right after the break.

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and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free until today no one knew exactly what senator lindsey graham told a georgia special grand jury when he testified behind closed doors as part of the investigation into trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. but according to an upcoming book by michael and daniel first previewed in politico senator lindsey graham turned on a dime and threw trump under the bus. do you remember how senator graham went from publicly disavowing trump in the wake of january 6th to casting aspirations on the people trying to investigate the insurrection? well, apparently when the cameras aren't rolling mr. graham is not exactly a true believer. he reportedly told d.a. fani willis and the special grand

jury that if you told trump that martians came and stole the election, he'd probably believe you. according to one witness after mr. graham was done testifying he thanked d.a. willing outside of the courtroom for the opportunity to testify and said that was so cathartic, i feel so much better. he then proceeded to hug d.a. willis. her reaction according to a witness was, whatever dude. today an aide for lindsey graham denied this report [he remains among the 29 senator whose have endorsed donald trump to be the next republican presidential nominee. back with me are susan glasser and jonathan martin. jonathan, i wonder if you have sort of -- what you make of this pathos on display as it is reported by michael isikoff and daniel clydeman in their book. >> two fantastic reporters. the martians line sounds quite unlike the lindsey graham susan and i know, it definitely sounds

like his sort of humor and sensibility. and doesn't surprise me in the least. these old pros like lindsey graham get the deal with trump. they know what he is and they've long ago made their bargain. i mean like news and weather at 11:00. this is par for the course with them. and the fact he said it to a grand jury obviously a little more consequential, but, alex, this is the stuff that republican lawmakers say every day in private on capitol hill about trump. and they've been doing it now for almost nine years. and it to goes on and on and on and apparently we're going to be doing it into a fourth decade. >> he found it cathartic. i guess in context what unfolded last night on trump's victy stage i'm talking about tim scott self-abasing himself as you characterize it in "the new

yorker" and vivek ramaswamy literally put on a timer by coach trump, i mean i don't understand what's in it for them, susan? what an appointment in an administration they are then summarily dismissed from or put under investigation from in eventually like a senate hearing? what's the game, susan glasser? >> you know, i mean, alex, this is the great psychological question mark of the last few years is i always wondered these big nen, you see like tim scott he's this big man, what is he so afraid of? what are they so afraid of? is donald trump going to punch him in the nose if he doesn't suck up to him like that? there's plenty of jobs and work and ambition and power available to those who don't humiliate themselves by licking donald trump's boots in public. i mean it's really -- even though it's a familiar dynamic,

you know, he's absolutely right that lindsey graham quote that is exactly -- we've all heard him say versions of this. the cynical nature of the bargain between so many republican senators and donald trump, it still hasn't penetrated, i think, that alternate media universe that exists for trump voters and the maga universe. they somehow don't understand that these senators are laughing behind their backs at donald trump, and they're laughing at them, the voters. and yet they are willing to do endless amounts of public sucking up. it really -- i've watched, you know, this game play out for a while, but it is notable to me how quickly the republican elected officials are falling in line behind donald trump here in washington on capitol hill. they believe clearly that the election is over, and they must take trump seriously in his very overt, explicit threats to them,

that they will be on the outside of a second trump administration if they don't fall in line. >> yeah, the groveling is just this humiliation -- >> part of their voters, right? their voters like trump, and they're going to follow their voters -- >> even if their self-respect is on the line, apparently. >> or in the case of vivek if you like to do like the apollo scene where they grab the hook for you and whip you offstage. >> exactly. susan glasser and jonathan martin, thank you my friends for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up much like nikki haley, i too will be traveling to south carolina tomorrow. i will not be fighting for my political life, but i will be interviewing a very special guest. and i'll tell you who it is coming up next. coming up next

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it's time for a pop quiz on geography. are you ready? do you know where lubbock county, texas is? how about odessa, or mitchell, or cochran, or dawson county? here's a hint, there's all counties and cities in texas either right on the border with new mexico or just a stone's throw away. they're also localities that sit on major interstate highways like the i-20. and not coincidently they've all recently made it illegal to help a pregnant person travel for an abortion in another state. texas already has one of the most restrictive abortion bans in this country, but now you cannot help transport a pregnant texan to, say, new mexico where abortion is legal, if you travel

through any of those counties and cities. one of the men behind these ordinances, texas' anti-abortion activist mark lee dixon has called these laws just the next logical progression in the effort to end abortion in america. on monday a tennessee statehouse republican introduced legislation that would make it a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison to transport a minor out-of-state for an abortion. last week a republican oklahoma state senator introduced a similar abortion travel ban with a 2 to 5-year prison sentence. the fact that one political party could force americans to remain pregnant and then restrict their movement sounds like the stuff of margaret atwood's nightmares and also one of the animating issues of the 2024 election. i spoke with california governor gavin newsom, one of president biden's top surrogates about

what democrats need to do about these republican bans. >> they need to be called out. they shouldn't be able to get away it. they can't claim to be pro-life when they're just pro-birth. they can't claim to celebrate and embrace freedom when they deny freedom to girls and their reproductive rights. tomorrow i'm going to be in north carolina and the state that could mark the very end of the republican primary this year. i'll be ecchecking in with governor newsom about the democrat strategy on abortion, trump's grip on the republican party and a lot, lot more just ahead of the 2024 election. it's going to be a great conversation. stay tuned tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. it also goes back to why i've continued to push for mental competency test for anyone over the age of