msnbc.com/jdp. ryan nobles is in for andrea mitchell. he picks up with more news right. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," we' trump watch in manhattan. former trump white house aide peter navarro finds out how much time he will spend in prison for being held in context after snubbing the january 6th committee. mounting pressure on boeing from the faa. lawmakers on capitol hill, airline companies, and concerned passengers, i caught up with the company's ceo on capitol hill yesterday as he defended their record after the boeing 737 max 9 door plug blowout. the gloves are off in the republican primary. nikki haley hitting back at the former president during her south carolina homecoming.

>> he pitched a fit. he was insulting, he was doing what he does. but i know that's what he does when he is insecure. i know that's what he does when he is threatened. and he should feel threatened, without a doubt. [ cheers and applause ] ♪♪ hello. thank you for joining us. i'm ryan nobles in washington in for andrea. former president donald trump is back in federal court in new york city at this hour. at any moment, he could take the stand to defend himself in the damages phase of the e. jean carroll defamation trial. her defense team played a video of mr. trump's deposition this morning and wrapped up its case. the former president is fresh off his new hampshire victory and has continued to attack carroll publically and online after clashing with the judge who threatened to remove the former president from court last week. msnbc national correspondent

jasmine have a joins us. do we know when and if donald trump will testify today? >> a couple things have gone on in the last hour or so since i was on the air with jose. i've been watching what's been happening inside the courtroom minute by minute. carol martin is on the stand. she's a friend of e. jean carroll. she was someone who e. jean carroll confided in when the assault initially occurred. she had been given a preview by e. jean carroll of the book that was published, including the excerpt relating to the assault claims made by e. jean carroll that the former president was found liable of in the previous trial. she's testifying. they are establishing the relationship they have with one another. the history they have with one another as well in relation to

the sexual assault claim made by e. jean carroll and the former president was found liable of. in talking about whether or not the former president will testify, there was back and forth after the plaintiff rested as to who they would call to the witness stand. they talked about carol martin being someone who will be called. then they talked about the former president as well and how they wanted to open the door for his testimony. they wanted to establish his state of mind when all this was going down in 2019 and 2020 as well and this case of defamation. essentially, the plaintiff's attorneys saying that, they have to offer a preview of what the former president's testimony is going to be if they're going to allow it. there was a lot of back and forth going on inside the courtroom as they came back from break on that question. judge kaplan saying, you are getting into the weeds.

he will rule as we go. when you ask whether the former president will testify, i don't think we will know until the former president is on the stand testifying. it seems that judge kaplan is going to go motion by motion, testimony by testimony, until he makes that decision. one more thing that i want to add. the former president has a lot of restrictions on him during this testimony. that's part of the issue here as to why crowley, e. jean carroll's attorneys is pushing back on his testimony. he can't get on the stand and say, i didn't sexually assault e. jean carroll. he has been found liable for that. he can't say, i didn't defame e. jean carroll. he has been liable for that. all of that has been established. that is kind of part of the back and forth that's going on in the lead-up as to whether he will testify. >> we will stand by for that. paul, let's go to you. there isn't a lot donald trump can even speak to when he is on

the witness stand. is it even a good idea for him to take this step? >> no lawyer would advise former president trump to take the stand. it's a kind of suicide if he takes the stand for his case. this is a combative witness. if past is prologue, we can predict he will be arguing with e. jean carroll's lawyers. he will be arguing with the judge. let me start first with the judge, ryan. jurors love judges. they about them as their favorite uncle or aunt. if a witness is combative with the judge, the jurors are going to receive that badly. if the only issue for this jury is how much money does former president trump owe e. jean carroll, that's a bad look for former president trump. if it's bad in front of the jury, it's worse in front of this judge. this is a lifetime appointed

judge. he is not going anywhere. a former president gets too combative, too argumentative, this judge has a wide avenue of remedies available to him. he can impose a significant fine. he could shut former president trump down by imposing a money penalty. he can even consider whether or not there should be a criminal sanction, that he should be, former president trump, tried and convicted perhaps for context of court on the criminal side. putting former president trump on the stand has any number of great risks. the case politically, it's another question. >> he still continues publically and on his social media posts to hammer e. jean carroll. could there be a bigger price for him to pay for his continued hammering of her in the public space? >> absolutely. we can anticipate that during the closing arguments, e. jean

carroll's lawyers will display as many of those texts and those communications that were put out by former president as time will allow. each one of those is another piece of evidence, another nail in the coffin, if you will, for former president trump's case here, which again is only to determine what kind of money penalties he is going to have to pay out. >> thank you both for your expertise. we appreciate it. we will keep a close eye on the courtroom there in new york. we will bring you any new developments that come from there as they happen. moving on, facing the judge in another case, former trump white house aide peter navarro in court today and he could get list prison sentence at any moment following his conviction for thumbing his nose at the january 6 select committee. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. only on msnbc. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet,

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here in washington, former trump white house advisor peter navarro is in court awaiting his sentence which could come at any moment. he was convicted in september for defying a subpoena from the january 6 committee and refusing to provide documents to congress. the former white house trade advisor helped spread misinformation about the 2020 election, including a faulty report which he said proved mr. trump won the election. ryan reilly joins us from outside the courthouse in d.c. give us an update. what did navarro say in court earlier today? >> reporter: the sentence should be coming at any moment. the judge is speaking and comparing this to steve bannon's case and seeing what the differences are between the two. navarro has more credibility, his claim of executive privilege. the one-month mandatory minimum

is in effect. that's something navarro's lawyers said they didn't believe the case because the statute for contempt of congress was passed so long ago it wasn't operational. they were disputing some of the language used because it talked about imprisoning someone in a common jail. this was before the bureau of prisons. it was a creative argument that his lawyers came up with here. navarro did speak briefly ahead of the sentencing. he was not supposed to from the beginning. his lawyer said that he would not be speaking. navarro, who had been standing during the entire procedure -- he has done that throughout all of the court proceedings, stood near the defense table, ultimately decided to make some comments on his own, saying that the judge -- he thought he was being treated unfairly. the same thing we have heard him talk about in front of the cameras. the judge was pushing back and saying he was allowed to make these defenses, these claims of his belief he believed that there was executive privilege here.

the reality was is that there was no evidence presented that donald trump did try to invoke executive privilege. the problem with his approach is that he didn't get a lawyer, he didn't cooperate. that's the difference between how mark meadows, for example, handled this case as opposed to peter navarro. you can expect a sentence handed down shortly. that operational one-month mandatory minimum is the baseline. we will see how much further this goes up. i think they're going to appeal this. this isn't something that's going to happen immediately. >> when we get that verdict, we will quickly check in with you on that. let's talk about another story. that's the january 6 rioter and proud boys member who was sentenced to six years in prison yesterday. he showed zero remorse. he attacked the judge. what more can you tell us about that? >> reporter: yes. throughout this process, this individual has not cooperated with that investigation or that proceeding all together.

he has gone down the sovereign citizen route and said he didn't believe the court has authority over him. he said that he would do it again even if the jail sentence were 100 times longer. he ordered his standby counsel in this case appointed by the court not to file sentencing documents. he is one of the individuals -- we have had a handful of them who have not cooperated with the proceeding and gone down swinging, thinking himself as a political martyr. these cases roll in. this morning and yesterday, there was another individual who is testifying about some of the violence on the front lines near the tunnel on the western front of the capitol. we had another sentencing of a chicago cop yesterday who was ultimately given three months of home detention. these cases continue to churn day after day here at the courthouse. >> thanks. we will come back to you as soon

as the sentence comes by. let's talk about the people who traveled across the country to take part in what would be the riot on january 6. donald trump pledged if he is back in the white house, he will pardon what he has called a large portion of those who have been convicted of violence and sedition in connection to the attack. washington's governor joins me to talk about that. mark is a resident of your state. you said that no one should be allowed to do what he did ever again. how concerned are you by what donald trump has vowed to do concerning pardons if he is elected president again? >> i think that the case is a window of the threat the democracy faces. it's difficult for us to wrap our heads around that anyone would threaten to do this again. essentially, that's what donald trump is saying. here you have the man convicted of violent attacks on january 6.

he said, judge, give me 100 years. i would do it all over again. what does donald trump do? he called the folks political prisoners. he has specifically said they are political prisoners and they should be freed. he has said that on multiple occasions. he said he would also use the pardon power to do this. i think this case is really an alarm bell for the nation to understand that our concerns about january 6 happening again is not a fever dream. it's not a hallucination, a bad script for a bad movie. it's a reality that these folks will say they will do it again, and their cult leader has said he will do it again because he will free the people who are responsible for doing it the first time. every day is january 6 until we rid ourselves of this threat. i gotta tell you, the reason that i'm talking about this today is, we need the judicial

system of the united states to act in a way that can get these cases tried, frankly, against the person who is responsible for being an ally of what he calls political prisoners. i am concerned that the judicial system -- i practiced law for 20 years -- can be as susceptible to delay and in this case delay would be a denial of justice. the american -- everybody is entitled to a presumption of innocence, even dangerous narcissists. the american people are entitled to try these cases in a timely fashion this year. we should speak up to assure ourselves of that. >> governor, it wasn't just the capitol that saw violence on january 6. it came to your home that day when pro-trump supporters breached the gate of the governor's mansion there. public officials are experiencing threats of varying degrees and they have been for the past three years.

you are on the ground level there. you are passing bills that impact your constituents on a day-to-day basis. how is it affecting local government and the officials you work with day to day? >> we have been frustrated and bothered but unimpeded. we are doing our jobs. i did have some sense of that on that day because a mob broke down our fences and were stopped from coming in my residence where i was at the time. i had to go to a safe room. they were stopped by a courageous state trooper. i saw with my own eyes people with ar-15s storming the place where the governor was trying to do business. i have seen this. that was nothing compared to what happened at the u.s. capitol. what i'm trying to articulate is we have an obligation to rise to the challenge of blowing the whistle on this so that it will never happen again.

passivity in the face of the danger is not the right approach. we have a mechanism in democracy to deal with this. it's the judicial system. i'm concerned about trump using delay to try to escape criminal liability. i think it's very important for americans to raise their voices to the judicial system. get the job done. let's have a fair trial and see -- let the chips fall where they may. >> we will see how the special counsel case plays out over the next couple of months and if it happens before election day in november. governor, your perspective was valuable. we appreciate you being here. >> thank you. be well. bring it on. next, how nikki haley is turning up the heat on former president trump in her home state. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. you always got your mind on the green. not you. you! your business bank account with quickbooks money now earns 5% apy. (♪♪)

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bring it, donald. show me what you got. >> of course, nikki haley going on the attack against donald trump in a major strategist shift following her losses in new hampshire and iowa. for his part, donald trump is spending the day in a new york city courtroom. of course, on truth social. while president biden is turning his focus to the general election. joining me is vaughn hillyard, jonathan lemire, and sabrina siddiqui. vaughn, let's talk about nikki

haley. she's turning up the rhetoric after trump's personal attacks on her. she's facing some growing pressure to clear the way from other republicans, even the rnc chair, for what's expected to be an inevitable trump/biden rematch. is there a chance they can force her out? >> reporter: some national republicans want to redirect resources and attention toward november. continuing to fire ire at nikki haley feels like it only alienates a part of the republican electorate that they need. that's why it's in the interest of the greater republican party, these folks argue, to have nikki haley step aside. to note, she's been running this presidential campaign for 344 days. she believes that over the next 30 days, she can change the course of the race before her home state votes. last night was her most direct comments yet of the last year of her campaign in which she said donald trump is focused on

insults, revenge, throwing temper tantrums like he did, in her words, tuesday night after he beat her. for nikki haley, this is a moment in which she's trying to convince donors but also the republican electorate at large she has a shot. donald trump on the other hand was very clear in a social media post last night. he said, anybody that makes a contribution to bird brain, his nickname for her, from this moment forth will be permanently barred from the maga camp. this is donald trump and his allies trying to put the focus on nikki haley and that pressure to have her step aside. at this point in time. $1 million raised overnight from nikki haley's campaign. they reserved more than $2 million on campaign airwaves in south carolina over the next month. for donald trump, he would rather focus elsewhere than on nikki haley. but his campaign is ready to take her on if she does not bow out of the race in the intervening weeks. >> let's talk about this attempt to try to prevent people from donating to haley's campaign.

we covered enough campaigns to know they end when the money dries up. haley has lost some donors. but the fact she's able to raise a significant amount of money here shows that there are people that want to her to stay in. what's the strategy here by trump saying he is not going to take any more money from people that donate to nikki haley? won't he need every dollar he can in a general election matchup? >> it's certainly an attempted act of intimidation. there's no reason to think donald trump will follow through in the months ahead were he to become the nominee. it's hard to imagine he would turn down cash for a race against president biden. to your point, nikki haley had a strong fund-raising day in the first 24 hours after new mpshire. her team has let it be known she has a series of big dollar evts in new york city scheduled. she right now being the only alternative to trump is going to be the recipient of the never

trump money and maybe some democrats throwing cash her way to keep her afloat. president biden's team is happy to see her do that. they have pivoted to the general election. we will hear from the president later today taking on donald trump. the longer haley stays out there and is a republican, is a republican giving voice to these criticisms of trump, particularly his mental fitness for office, that's useful. she will attract an audience that will never hear president biden say those things. there's some hope here that though republicans have been loath to criticize trump, maybe haley can do damage on biden's behalf. >> let's talk about how the white house is responding to this. yesterday, they secured the big uaw endorsement. probably not a big surprise. the fact that they made a big splash of it is significant. they are moving over resources, some key staffers from the white house to the campaign. it seems like they are pivoting to general election mode.

>> they are pivoting to the general election. we have heard that in president biden's speeches where he used a lot of his remarks to draw a contrast to former president trump. he even issued that statement from the campaign site after the new hampshire primary effectively saying that the writing is on the wall and trump is likely the nominee. when you look at what the changes within the campaign -- that's formalizing what has been the arrangement thus far where you had a deputy chief of staff at white house steering the strategy from washington. there was concern about the perception the camign was being guided from the white house. they are moving over to the campaign side. i think you have seen the rollout of the events the president has been holding for some time now around infrastructure, around a lot of the implementation of policies that are going to be central to his general election strategy. of course, that uaw endorsement

is significant. it's central to the fight for the blue collar workers he will be competing for in a likely matchup with former president trump. >> quickly, he is in wisconsin today. that's not insignificant. >> it's not. of course, part of the rest belt states that were central to his victory in 2020, of course, winning those states back from former president trump, and the area he is visiting is a place that's been impacted by the outsourcing of manufacturing. i think the challenge for president biden has been and continues to be, can he connect the dots for voters between the legislative achievements of his administration and the jobs that are being created across the country, the improvement we have seen in economic numbers, including today? especially when polls show voters aren't feeling the impacts of a growing economy. that's what you will hear more from him in wisconsin today. >> sabrina, vaughn, jonathan, thank you. we appreciate it. the state of play next. the bipartisan senate border

deal hanging in the balance as military aid for ukraine losing steam among republican hawks on the hill. an update on it all from democratic senator jeff merkley after a break. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. then add the whoa! of listerine to your routine. new science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa! (♪♪)

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here's to beating these two every thursday. we have breaking news. we have a sentencing in the peter navarro situation at the federal courthouse. navarro accused of defying the subpoena of the january 6 select committee. ryan reilly outside the courthouse right now with the news of the sentence. what can you tell us? >> reporter: that's right. peter navarro was sentenced to four months in prison. that's just short of what prosecutors were seeking, the mandatory minimum was one month. the judge went beyond that. the judge said it was circumstances of his own making and he was not a victim of political persecution, pointing out the fact you had the white house chief of staff, mark meadows, who had his lawyers deal with the committee, who was not charged in this case. there were circumstances that the justice department made a decision because navarro had so

defied the returning records -- or appearing for people during this situation, that this was deserving of a four-month sentence. it matches what steve bannon got for the same circumstance, but steve bannon has not served that four-month sentence yet because that's still on appeal. you would expect the same from navarro. not something where he will have to report to jail. that four-month sentence is hanging over his head. >> ryan reilly, thank you for that update. four months in prison for peter navarro. he will likely appeal. let's move to capitol hill where a possible bipartisan deal on the border is falling apart. some senate republicans cave to the party's likelyredential nominee donald trump. this major change in dynamic comes before the text of e bill was even released. conservative hardliners are making it clear, they want more than the concessions the white house is willing to make, raising questions about whether they might be trying t kill the

deal and keep immigration front and center to benefit trump's campaign, something minority leader mitch mcconnell was asked about earlier today. >> it's not anything new. if anything, it could be stripped from the wider supplemental funding bill splitting out aid for ukraine, israel and taiwan. joining me now is somebody who has a vote in this matter, the democratic senator jeff merkley. he is a member of the appropriations and foreign relations committees. senator, what are you hearing from your leadership on the democratic side concerning their willingness to potentially separate the border from the rest of the supplemental package? do they see a standalone vote having a better chance? is this a situation that could hasten the death of both of the parameters?

>> certainly, it could hasten the death, ryan. the republican caucus is in complete chaos with mcconnell being attacked from his republican right and his republican left. options on the table are to go forward with the full package. of course, we have not seen the text of a bill at this point. democrats have wanted to implement the $14 billion that the president has proposed to solve the problems at the border and work out a deal. senator chris murphy on the democratic side and james langford on the republican side have been locked in negotiations for more than a month and are close to a deal. we were looking forward to seeing it. if the story is that president trump wants an open border, does not want this problem solves, and he is going to be backed up by open border republicans to try to keep this open as an

election issue, that's not serving america well. we really do have to bring to bear the framework that the democrats want to implement the biden plan to solve the problems. but if open border republicans want to go a different direction, we need 60 votes to pass a bill. >> i do want your personal opinion on the concessions that reportedly the white house and senate democrat negotiators have made as it relates to the border package. do you feel comfortable supporting what you have seen? i know you will tell me you want to see the entire text. in terms of your perspective as a progressive democrat, do you think the immigration reforms are appropriate? >> we have seen only glossy descriptions of what's in this deal. it's impossible to say at this point. i think senators on both sides want to know how any member can say this looks great, but what is in it?

we don't know. i can tell you i strongly support the funding to support the role of the cbp on the border. i support reducing the time for asylum. everyone asking for asylum at the border should have a caseworker, should have legal representation, should have a hearing within six months. not six years. it's crazy. it is a broken down system that fell apart under trump. has to be fixed. biden wants to fix it. i want to fix it. i hope the republicans want to fix it. >> concerned are you if the two packages get split up, that either one can pass? >> well, i think the senate has a responsibility to take big issues facing america, have a bill on the floor, open it up to amendments, hold a debate and hold a vote. that's what the senate's responsibility is under the constitution. if it comes together as one package, it's the biggest set of

issues ever combined in a single package. we have ukraine. we are at risk of a chamberlain strategy, when he went to music and told hitler, take a piece of czechoslovakia. they are saying, let's go to putin and say, take ukraine, which is an outrageous position to support a dictatorship in a battle against a democracy where the people are sacrifiing their lives, trying to preserve freedoms. when are the republicans going to stand up for the freedom of the people of ukraine? this is a test. these are issues being combined together. if they come to the floor, one each separately on ukraine, on the border, certainly the challenge in the middle east, humanitarian aid around the world, that's fine if we have a process where the senate can actually digest and vote on each piece. if they come as a package, i will take it any which way.

the senate has to address the big issues facing america. >> on that last piece that you mentioned, the middle east, israel specifically, you are among a group of senators that have pushed to make that aid conditional on humanitarian assurances from israel. do you feel like that position is gaining traction among your colleagues? senator schumer has not ruled it out. >> it is growing. the humanitarian catastrophe in gaza, the aide workers i met with, the u.n. agencies and group like mercy corps and catholic news services, they said we have been in the worst war conflicts in the world, sudan and yemen, the front line in ukraine. we have never seen this level of catastrophe. you have massive displacement, massive food shortage, massive water shortage, massive medicine shortage and massive communication breakdown. that's the worst in the world. the u.s. cannot be complicit in this situation. palestinians are not the enemy. hamas is the enemy.

this has to change. we have to get a lot tougher and insist it change and make it happen. >> senator merkley, we packed a lot in. i very much appreciate it. thank you so much. >> thank you. under pressure, boeing brings 737 max 9 production to a halt as the company faces enormous public scrutiny while alaska airlines plans to put the planes back in the air tomorrow. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. e. using our technology to power different ways of learning. so when minds grow, opportunities follow. ♪ my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn.

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weeks after a door plug blew out midair on an alaska airline flight, the faa is halting the production expansion but green lighting the return to service once inspections are complete. after meeting with lawmakers yesterday, boeing's ceo is expected back on capitol hill today for a second day of meetings about the 737 max 9s. tom costello joins us with the latest. >> i met with senator cruz. he is on the hill. cruz said that he made it very clear that he has to improve the culture at boeing. they are trying to drill down on quality control. this really underscores boeing lost a lot of confidence from

the airlines, from the faa. the faa taking this unprecedented step just as some airlines think that they will start flying the max as soon as tomorrow. nearly three weeks since the blowout on that alaska airlines flight over portland grounded every max 9 nationwide, alaska says it is preparing for final faa inspections and the fix max 9 flight this friday. resuming its full schedule on february 2nd. united says its flights will return starting sunday. the faa now says it is freezing future production, announcing it will not grand any production expansion of the max until we are satisfied that the quality control issues uncovered during this process are resolved. >> i'm more than frustrate and disappointed. >> reporter: in an exclusive interview, alaska's ceo had a similar demand. >> my demand on boeing is, what

are they going to do to improve quality programs in-house. >> reporter: boeing's president met with senators on capitol hill. >> we fly safe planes. we don't put airplanes in the air that we don't have 100% confidence in. >> reporter: they will have to pass a rigorous inspection process, just laid out by the faa. this is the door plug. in the u.s., only united and alaska fly the max 9. it's taking ten hours to inspect every door plug. they are checking to see if the bolts are in place and whether those bolts are secure. then they have to check measurements and gaps and torque. it's a long process. that could take 12 hours per door plug. the two airlines taking it on now to get more customers flying as soon as this weekend.

both alaska and united say the plane will not fly until they are 100% sure it's safe. it has gone through all of the required faa inspection processes. if there's a problem, they go to the right fix. this is a very serious problem for boeing. their reputation has been significantly damaged. the airlines are demanding accountability. that ryan nobles guy, he might have a future. >> glad to hear it. we may see david calhoon on capitol hill for more hearings. rising tensions, leaked comments from benjamin netanyahu. what this means for hostage negotiators. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong.

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so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network. give your business a head start in 2024 with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. president biden is planning to send cia director william burns to europe to help broker a deal between hamas and israel to release the hostages. burns is expected to meet with israeli and egyptian intelligence leaders this weekend. egypt and qatar have helped secure an initial pause in fighting and hostage release in november. joining me now from tel aviv is nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. matt, what can director burns expect to see when he arrives? >> reporter: he's going to be walking into what was already a very complicated situation.

i don't have to tell you, ryan, these negotiations have been incredibly difficult. they've been lasting for months even though they've been at times somewhat successful. they've been maybe even more complicated by events over the past 24 hours. there was a leaked recording of prime minister benjamin netanyahu criticizing the role that the qataris have played. this is being negotiated by the qataris and the egyptians. the qataris have been instrumental, especially in negotiating the last deal that released about 100 of these israeli prisoners from the gaza strip, but this was critical comments released in a leaked recording by benjamin netanyahu where he essentially said that qatar's role was problematic, and he equated them to the international red cross, red crescent and the united nations. that doesn't sound like such an insult to you and i. you've got to remember benjamin netanyahu has been fiercely critical of the role of both of e particularly in the gaza strip. he seems them on some level of hindering israel or complicit

with hamas. then we also heard from the finance minister, she's a very far right wing minister in benjamin netanyahu's very far right cabinet, he piled on to this dispute and said the qataris, financed terrorism, encouraged terrorism, and these were insulting comments. this is the thicket of distrust he's going to have to hack through when he gets here. >> matt bradley, thank you for that update. let's talk more about it now with marc polymeropoulos who spent years as a cia officer and was the chief of operations in europe. >> and collin clarke, the director of research at the sew fan group. let's break down the role bill burns could play here by meeting with israeli and egyptian intelligence officials. there's already an envoy in the region, brett mcgurk, he is kind of the lead negotiator here for the united states. director burns himself has a pretty extensive foreign policy resume. what does this signal about the level of negotiations here, and

why would president biden be making this move now? >> well, i think it's pretty clear that some progress has been made, you know, they wouldn't dispatch burns to europe for meetings if there wasn't some hope that these hostage talks had some chances of making progress, and you have to remember that in the middle east, everything happens in these intelligence channels. bill burns will be there, david bar naya, the mossad director will be there, so i think there's some hope on this, and to me it's a reflection more on kind of the israeli political reality, the hostages are just a seismic issue inside israel. while there was always a contradiction between getting the hostages back and israeli military moves in gaza, i think the hostages now are taking front and center, and i think the israelis recognize this. so i think we should -- there's a chance we'll see some progress, at least on a limited deal. >> so collin, as matt very well put out for us here is that this

is not an easy situation that burns will be walking into. qatar saying today that they're appalled by the leaked comments from israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu criticizing the gulf state's role as a mediator with hamas as, quote, problematic. qatar called the comments irresponsible and destructive. they've played such an important role in these negotiations. what could these tensions have? what role could these tensions have in these hostage negotiations? >> well, i think, you know, it's a big story at the moment, but the qataris are true professionals when it comes to hostage negotiations. i don't think it's going to impact the overall tenor or outcome of the deal. i do think this is -- we're getting close to the last best chance to free the hostages, though. the big issue, the breaking point is whether or not to agree to a permanent cease fire, and we have to remember that the conflict in gaza is directly related to all of these other conflicts ithe region. the israeli lebanese border,

what's happening in yemen and the red sea, iraq witthe shia militias there. i think if there is the opportunity to reach a deal, i do think these are the individuals best positioned to do it, and it would also alleviate some of the pressure that we're seeing from all of these other iranian proxies that have been highly active in the region. >> mark, you mentioned the political stakes here for netanyahu, how the families of these hostages are angry. they want their loved ones home. to collin's point here, what could a potential hostage deal look like, and could a permanent cease fire be on the table? >> i think a limited deal is more likely, and this is going to be what -- if the reports are accurate, and this is the israeli suggestion, of course, is that it would be a two-month pause, and then kind of a graduated release of the hostages who are held inside of gaza based on female hostages, then some soldier, then the deceased, the bodies, and in return israel would be releasing proners. but the notion of a permanent

cease fire, i think that's farther off. the israelis have been very clear from day one that cam paint might take not weeks, months, but perhaps years. counterterrorism is not a nine inning baseball game. there's no time limit on this. ultimately i think that we might see some progress on a limited deal. but a permanent cease fire, this is not something anyone in israel is talking about, clearly not the israeli defense establishment. >> and finally, collin, the u.s. and iraqi government are expected it start talks on the future of the u.s. military presence in the country. what could that entail? >> this is a really major second order effect. if the united states is asked to leave the country, it really opens the door for the islamic state, for the resurgence of isis. the impact of the gaza conflict is being felt throughout the region, and we could really see some detrimental effects on the back end of this if the u.s. is asked to leave as advisers to

iraqi security forces that continue to battle remnants of the islamic state. some really serious ramifications if that happens. >> of course we saw what happened in afghanistan, perhaps something like that plays out if u.s. forces leave iraq as well. thank you both for being here. we appreciate it. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." andrea will be back tomorrow, you can follow me on social media @ryan nobles. follow the show on social media @mitchellreports and you can rewatch the the best parts of our show at any time on youtube, just go to msnbc.com/andrea. for now, "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good afternoon, i'm chris jansing live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. will donald trump testify in front of a jury for the first time in more than a decade? we could find out anytime now as the