staying n the biden campaign, thinking it's important for another republican to open up attacks on donald trump. they do believe that trump will eventually be the reelection foe. jonathan allen, thank you. thank you to all of you for getting up way too early with us this morning and all week long. morning joe starts right now. donald trump is trying to win over the voters that matter the most, his juries. >> he showed up to speak on his own behalf, and everything went smoothly until the judge said tell the truth, and everyone busted out laughing. >> . go morning, it's friday, january 26th . we have a lot to get to this morning. donald trump's latest temper tantrum was in court. we will go through his brief testimony and get legal analysis ahead of the closing

arguments in the defamation damages trial, and how much he should pay. meanwhile trump continues to work behind the scenes and on social media to tank a deal on border security and foreign aid in the capitol. we will show you the latest post. we will play for you the handful of gop lawmakers standing up to the former president. also ahead, president biden hits the road following a surprisingly strong economic report. the data is so good, even a former trump adviser had to admit the president should be dragging about it. we will go through a significant development in the hostage negotiations with israel and hamas as the cia director will now travel abroad in the hopes of closing a deal. willie, you know, in washington, the big question is if the republicans are going to stab -- keep stabbing ukraine in the back, keep stabbing israel in the back, and calling for open border until donald

trump is the president of the united states. the lead editorial in "the wall street journal" talking about a gop border reckoning, and it says, giving up on the border, a security bill, would be a self-inflicted gop wound. president biden would claim with cause that republicans want border chaos as an election issue, rather than solving the problem. the house funded negotiations before christmas with the theory that ukraine could hang on to february without a fresh weapons infusion. now another month has passed. the u.s. careening into the moment of growing dangers around the world, but a tighter border and a stable europe are in america's interest. they are saying outright what republicans were saying

yesterday. this is reckless. you have donald trump saying let fentanyl flood the border and illegal immigrants keep flooding the border. let's not have a solution. i mean, this whole donald trump idea that keeping the border open is a winner for republicans? it strikes "the wall street journal" and most sane americans. it's just crazy. >> it is. it's a revealing moment about this moment in time for the republican party, which is to say they have in front of them senate and house republicans, a deal, if you handed it to them a couple of years ago or before donald trump was around, they would have been thrilled with. this is what they have been talking about. the border is a problem, a crisis, and they have something to do with it. why are they not doing it? to protect donald trump. there's a few moments along the way, and this is one of them that really clarify and tell you the whole story. are you working on behalf of

the country? are you working on behalf of the people who want to see the border crisis resolved? they think there should be an orderly system in the country. that's what you said for generations, and here it is. you won't take it because donald trump is calling your office and telling you not to do it. yesterday he said publically on truth social, don't do a deal until i get there, and i will fix evything. >> yeah, and you have the speaker of the house, talking about how horrible the border is yesterday, how they want to impeach miorkis, and they have a chance for the biggest border security bill ever, and they are killing it. make no mistake that mike

johnson is killing our best chance to have a border security bill that actually works. all of these republicans doing the same, and as "the wall street journal said," they want to run with -- on the platform of we hope that the economy is destroyed and let us keep the border open. let them do it. they will lose the house, the senate, and the white house. >> and the overturning of roe to that. i mean, america is trying to get solutions to guns, to women's rights, and to things like this. >> border security. >> i mean, it's important to both sides. it's definitely important to the republican side. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of way too early jonathan lamere, katie

kay, and pulitzer prize winner eugene robinson. lucky to have a great group with us. willie, top story. donald trump back in court, testifying, briefly in the defamation damages trial for e. jean carroll. he will be back in court today for closing arguments. trump was scolded before he took the stand for an outburst he had while his attorney was talking to the judge about the limits of trump's testimony. before the jury was brought inside of the courtroom, the judge reiterated the verdict of the previous trial found him guilty, restricting what he could say on the stand yesterday. when he did take the stand, his testimony listed three minutes and defied the limits placed on his testimony twice calling the abuse accusations false, and prompting the judge to disregard trump's statements. last year a jury found he

sexually abused and defamed carroll. this is to determine the damages carroll will receive. let's bring in lisa ruben who was in the courtroom yesterday. lisa, good morning. only three minutes on the stands for donald trump. what was it like in the courtroom? >> it was extraordinarily tense and intense, willie, when donald trump took the stand. i think it was a day they and many legal analysts on this network told you was never going to happen. it sort of didn't happen. he was only on the stand in his direct for three minutes. all of the questions he answered are ones that voters and jurors have heard him answer multiple times before. there was nothing new added by donald trump taking the stand other than the assuaging of his ego and the opportunity to say this is not america, this is not america, this is not

america. he doesn't understand that litigation is essentially a well regulated games, and it has rules. he and his lawyers have repeatedly not played by the rules, and those have consequences. >> they certainly do. the judge made sure that the jury knew exactly what donald trump had been found liable of in the most graphic terms of lying and saying it was all of this was just a witchhunt. talk about that. >> joe, that's going to happen again today at much greater length when after closing arguments and each side has told the judge they expect to take an hour each. then the judge will deliver a much longer set of jury instructions, and part of the jury instructions will be to say to the jury in greater exposition what he said yesterday. mr.trump has already been found liable for sexually assaulting ms. carroll by forcibly inserting his fingers into her

that's a fact found by a jury of his peers last may, six men and three women. he will also say the same jury found him liable for defaming ms. carroll for denying the truth of the allegations. again, the jury's decision turns on not if he defamed her, but how much damage he did while making statements while he was president and continuing to double down on the statements for years there after. starting after the verdict last may, going on cnn and denied it on stage with caitlyn collins and has continued to do it almost daily since. we have obviously seen footage of him doing it last week in new hampshire. we have numerous and copious truth social posts where he's doing it again and again and again, and the plaintiff's lawyers were successful in introducing the worst of the

statements to the jury. >> he is expected to be back in the courtroom today as the closing arguments begin. give us a sense what we may hear in the respective arguments and what is the time line going forward? when do we think the jury will get this? >> let me start with what we think we will hear today. i think from e. jean carroll's lawyers, they will talk about the damage done to her. i want to make sure you and your viewers understand, it's not just the damage done reputationally. the expert said reputationally it would be $7 million to $12 million to repair, but she has experienced severe emotional pain and suffering from the sort of death threats and rape threats that have come in to her as she testified almost daily since his defamation began four years ago, roughly four plus years ago. we will hear that from his lawyers, ask the jury to put a

dollar amount on that, the emotional harm to her reputation, and then the question, what will it take to make donald trump to stop? how much money will it take in punitive damages to punish him for the ongoing misconduct? on trump's say they will say she wanted to be famous and publicized the story, going forward was her choice. she assumed some of the risk, and donald trump did not be solely responsible for it. they have argued she has become a celebrity, a liberal cause, a hollywood partygoer, in part because she has brought the allegations against donald trump. they are going to say you, jury, should offset the damages in the way the woman has been enhanced in our community. i know it sounds farcical, but the way she has been elevated in the community by the allegations. in terms of the timing, i think they will be deliberate this

afternoon, and jurors as danny told you last hour, hate to come back for the weekend. the judge has made provisions to have meals late into the night tonight. i think if it takes them staying after hours tonight and they reach a verdict and believe they are deliberating in good faith, we could see a verdict tonight. >> at least in the first trial, they did come back within hours. >> they did. >> we know juries can do that, and they may well do that in this case. put the numbers on this of what looks like a victory for e. jean carroll for her and her lawyers and more of a victory for donald trump. what is the scale of compensation of damages we are looking at here? >> first of all, something far more than what she was awarded last time, where the award was $5 million, based on her sexually assault and defamation claims from one incident in

october 2022. you and i both know, when you tell a lie after the first time, it's far more damaging. her lawyers asking for 20 plus million dollars to compensate her for her injuries, and then four, five, six times that for punitive damages. it's not clear to me they will actually ask for a specific amount or even multiplier of the compensatory damages. they will say think about what he told you. he was worth billions and billions and billions in his brand alone, has $400 million cash on hand. make it hurt. >> former litigator, lisa ruben, thank you. we will take a one minute break, and when we come back, trump is trying to get involved with legislation to kill the border deal. we will show you the top republicans who are pushing

back on that. back in one minute. that. back i n one minute. th ese twh help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

beautiful look at washington, d.c., at 6:14 a.m. cloudy skies actually over parts of washington, and willie, very cloudy skies over all of my sports teams. i told you yesterday that big al entered the transfer portal because it seems everyone else did. we have sort of done work, and the players are saying, maybe we can stay here. people are like, joe, alabama, a front runner. no. i went 30 years as an alabama fan, one national championship before nick saban came. liverpool, the premier league, had one in 30 years until the club came, and this morning,

john oliver and a lot of liverpool fans across the world, jonathan, you're one of them, getting the very bad news, ke nick saban, jurgen klopp is exhausted, retiring at the end of the year. >> devastating news for the liverpool fans. one of the best coaches in the world putting it out on the team website, suggesting he is burned out and doesn't feel like he can give it his all anymore. he will stay thugh the end of the season, a promising year for liverpool. top of the table right now in the premier league, but it's the end of the era. a beloved coach. his players love him. he has brought in top, top talent. it's a marvelous team. he is a great guy and great coach. he's moving on. nick saban and belichick, and now him, all moving on. sad day for liverpool. >> you and john oliver are my

points of reference on liverpool. john oliver as we sat in the pub and watched liverpool, speaking in reverential tones. put in for our viewers, into perspective, who is he? nick saban and bill belichick for fans? >> for liverpool fans, he certainly is. this is a team that was really the greatest english team ever, and then they just went on an absolute collapse. klopp came in and built them back to front. extraordinary job. they won the premier league for the first time in history, and then they won the champions league, the champions of europe, and you know, other

trophies. he's massive. yet another loss for the good guys. i think that i'm going to start to follow the australian rules football and eves. >> okay, go eves. whatever gets us to politics. >> is that what they do in australian rules football? this? >> yeah. >> i love that. the refs step up when they kick it through the uprights and pull them out of the holsters and have six shooters. >> it's great. >> that's what i'm following. >> glad i know that. >> they do that on capitol hill, too. >> well, if they get a deal, they all do that, but no one has been doing that for a long time, the republicans at least. negotiators are looking at a bipartisan bill and say talks are still on after the minority

leader, mitch mcconnell appeared to throw cold water on the deal. the republican reportedly told colleagues in a closed door meeting on wednesday they may not want to undermine donald trump on the issue since he wants to run on it. last night trump encouraged lawmakers to do nothing on the border. >> to keep the border open. umencouraged them to let fentanyl continue to flood in and let illegal immigrants stream across the border. that's what donald trump said, and republicans are so weak, they are going to do it. they are going to side with fentanyl and illegal immigrants inead of the bipartisan deal. >> he went social media and wrote incorrectly, we are better off not making a deal, even if it pushes our country to temporarily close up for awhile. a handful of republican senators are pushing back on letting trump sink the deal. take a listen.

>> i think the border is a very important issue for donald trump. the fact that he would communicate to republican senators and congress people he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame biden for it, that's really appalling. the american people are suffering as a result of what is happening at the border, and someone running for president ought to try to get the problem solved as opposed to saying save that problem. don't solve it. let me take credit for solving it later. >> i just reject the idea we should reserve a crisis for a better time to solve it. you know? that's -- people -- what is interesting to me, there's a lot of angry people out there, and that's why the border crisis is the number one issue for voters. i don't see how we have a better story to tell when we miss the one opportunity we have to fix it, and we say we would have loved to fix it, but it was election season, and i

thought i would wait. >> from my point of view, we need relief today, and what we are trying to do will help him if he gets to be president. i will say to president trump, if we can put the package together the way it will fall in place, you will have more tools to secure america than you have ever had. it's not about one president. it's the system. >> i registered my opinion to my colleagues and our leadership, they don't believe we should take this off the table. certainly not to clear the way for a clean campaign debate season. let's get something consequential done for the american government. that's how you instill trust, rather than paying to the short- term accommodations. >> go back to schoolhouse rock

for how a bill becomes law. if we don't take the vote now, it will be zero next year. it's immoral to think you went the other way because this is the lynch pin to win. i don't want to be part of the history that fails democracy. that's a failure if we don't find a way to fund ukraine and israel. >> good for thom tillis. it's immoral, and he's right, a failure for republicans, and it's immoral for republicans to fail ukraine in the fight for freedom and fail israel, and their fight to defend themselves against terrorists, and, of course, the united states, to secure its border. we finally have the deal. i mean, going to capitol hill, and asking the last couple of years, why can't we get a deal done? well, democrats want this. well, republicans want this. they were talking past each other. they are talking to each other, and james langford, one of the

most conservative republicans on capitol hill from oklahoma says this is the best bill we can get. john thune, one of the most conservative republicans on capitol hill, says, this is the best border security bill we can get. it's the strongest in the generation. they all agree with that, and i agree with thom tillis. this is pathetic, but gene robinson, you have donald trump admitting his goals are number one, saying to lou dobbs, he wants the economy to crash. he knows it's going well. he wants joe biden to be herbert hoover, managing a depression. he wants the stock market to crash. he wants people's retirement funds to burn up, and he wants millions of people to lose jobs. that's what he said. i want a depression. i want biden to be herbert

hoover, and the second thing, and the wall street journal talking about it right now, they are passing up the chance to secure the border. people as mitt romney said are suffering right now. fentanyl flooding across the border. illegal immigrants streaming across the border. democrats and republicans in the senate know how to stop it. >> yeah. yeah. >> house republicans and donald trump will not do it. it's immoral, is it not? >> it is immoral, insane, and it shows what has happened to the republican party. it really does. this is not a serious political party anymore. it is a cult. it is a cult of personality around dear leader donald trump, full stop. the house republicans are already against the deal that they have been praying for for years and years and years. good for the senate republicans

we just showed who came out and said, look, this is nuts. we have to pass. we will never get a deal like this. let's see how they actually vote. let's see how lindsey graham actually votes when it comes down to it and if mitch mcconnell can actually, you know, get it across the finish line. we will see. i just kind of have my doubts right now, given what mitch mcconnell said on wednesday about there not being a path forward. it is such an illustration of why we have to destroy the republican party in november in order to save it, really. i mean because look at what has happened to this party. they are offered a deal that they will never get again. a deal that provides tough border security without the perpetual democratic demands

that some democrats really want, a path to citizenship for the undocumented migrants already in the country, for the dreamers. there's nothing about that that we know of in this package. they will never get this again. and yet they are about to defeat out of the jaws of victory in a way that is just deeply unserious and deeply disturbing and bad for the country. >> self-destructive. >> donald trump is the cult leader of the republican party, and this is where we are going to be. >> to gene's point, it strikes you, it's for the t-shirts and the hats and the chance the opposite of america first. they have a moment and a chance here to put america first and do something about the border, and they are putting donald trump first in this case. as some of the senators we just heard made clear, it politically should not be that

hard. i understand there's moments they don't want cross donald trump on dicey issues because they think their voters will turn on them. their voters want border security, and thom tillis can cross donald trump here and vote for border security and not pay the political price for it? it doesn't make sense to a lot of people watching politically. on the policy certainly doesn't make sense. this is what they have been asking for for generations. politically, you can say i disagree with donald trump. i think he was a great president, but we are going to fix the border right now with a chance to do it. strange, but i guess not surprising anymore. >> that's not what donald trump wants them to do. he wants them to carry on talking about immigration. he can see the numbers. if consumer confidence is improving, interest rates come down, and the economy is better, and gas prices down to $3 a barrel or $3 a gallon, and some of the economic issues may be off the table, and donald

trump needs another issue on the table, another issue to whip up his base into a fury against joe biden. if this is solved by the deal, then potentially the immigration crisis is solved, and that goes away. you cannot blame the american public for a 15% approval rating of congress when it's this blatantly cynical and ineffective. the former defense secretary once said america's biggest problems are russia, china, and its own politics. this is a clear case of america's own politics getting in the way of doing something to help the country. the unusual situation of democrats actually wanting border security, and republicans not so much wanting border security, at least for the course of the political campaign. >> even for donald trump, this is shamelessly cynical. just a naked appeal to keep the issue alive politically rather than doing something for the country. mitch mcconnell's comments that caused a stir, seemed like he was giving in on the deal.

his team pushed back on that. mcconnell held another meeting with colleagues yesterday and made it clear, he does still want this. he wants the ukraine deal in exchange border security. they are saying he was simply acknowledging that trump was playing a role, and being honest about the quandary he and his party were in, but it was not mcconnell himself shifting positions, which was a relief to some republicans that learned this late last night, the senate minority leader, power diminished in recent months, wants to push it forward. the question is if he can get votes. others said they want it to happen, and they are putting the responsibility to country over party, but we know. we know the house is standing in opposition, a large portion of it. will there be enough senators who make the decision to defy mcconnell in favor of trump?

>> you have mcconnel, tillis, kramer, lindsey. if the people who spoke out vote for it in the senate, that's seven republicans right there, and they need three more to get to 60. >> what i'm sure they are thinking about, and house republicans, not only does it make the republican party look so bad in so many ways, and yet another like we needed proof that trump sort of has a hold on them, but what are our allies and enemies thinking with two hot wars going on? a former president can impact what is getting passed in congress? >> well, it -- what it underlines is the fear that people like richard hoss and david ignacius has been bringing up, they say america is back for now, but what happens when donald trump is

president? people have decided donald trump is going to win in dabos. great news he may not win. don't tell that to our allies across the world. right now that's what they fear. let's bring in associate editor for the washington post. david, feel free to comment on what we were talking about, our allies and enemies in expecting a trump return, even though it's not going to happen in my opinion. i want to read to you from the lead editorial of the wall street journal, and it's gop border reckoning, and this is what the editors write. then there's ukraine. the u.s. friend in europe now running out of ammunition to fight vladimir putin. the political alternatives are worse to what mr. trump is going to do. they fear a few voices these days are willing to stand up and say so because they fear

mr. trump will trash them for it. the border ukraine deal offering some offer for the hard ukraine vote and a political and policy victory to tout at home. do republicans want to sponsor the 2024 equivalent of saigon 1975? what a line. do republicans want to sponsor the 2024 equivalent of saigon 1975? mr.trump may think a ukraine defeat will help him, but don't be so sure. as president he would inherit an emboldened putin. >> i do hear leaders saying their governments are beginning to hedge against the possibility that donald trump could be reelected president. it's a very difficult and

painful problem for them to think about. one thing i think people are beginning to focus on is how do you sustain ukraine against the russian invasion if the united states begins to pull back from the coalition of support. it's crucial for europe that vladimir putin not win the battle. europe's future other the next several decades will be entirely different if putin rolls to victory, and i think, not another invasion towards kyiv to try to take the whole country. that's the first thing. i hear people talking more and more about how ukraine can defend what it has. the idea that ukraine will be able to expel the russians from its borders looking much more difficult now than it did. it can hold the territory it has more decisively, building the defenses russia built in

the south. it can develop its own domestic arms industry, and it can develop the antiaircraft weapons to each the drones and missiles from destroying its cities. i think there's the hedging and protection discussion that is beginning. if this effort to continue providing aid to ukraine fails, joe, i think of the people who fought to build up american credibility in the world, and i think of my dad's generation that fought in world war ii, the sacrifices they made, and i think of the decades of struggle in the cold war to build the reliability of america's name and commitment to its allies. that was hard work, year by year, and it's just shocking to me, shameful, that people are on the verge of throwing that away by walking away from the country that has defended

itself courageously, never asked an american soldier to do its fighting, just asking for help, and when you think of all that would be lost in terms of america's reputation if we don't stand by this ally, it's just shocking. it's something that will last in terms of our national reputation for much longer than people think. >> and it really will. when you talk about freedom in europe, you go over all of the years since the war, and we can talk about what the presidents have done, but as david said so many people have fought for this, and given their entire lives to a europe that is free of russian tyranny. you go back to dean atchinson, and back to general marshall. you can move forward to cold warriors like your father. colin powell, madeleine albright, secretary gates, again, people who have lived

their entire lives for a free europe. a free west. an expanded nato that can protect countries like ukraine from russian aggression, and house republicans agree with what i'm saying, and house democrats agree with what i'm saying, and the white house agrees with what i'm saying, but donald trump, and mike johnson. mike johnson who has voted pro- putin on every single ukraine bill voted to kill the funding to defend against a russian invasion, is now killing the bill. the wall street editorial page has it right. you're looking right there. not the chairman, because he's fought like hell for ukraine, but you're looking right there at the speaker who is going to

be responsible for a saigon- like collapse of ukraine. if other party members don't save him from himself -- >> and to david's point, i mean this is the big accomplishment for our decade for partners for peace in europe. to just stop now, and we knew it would get hard. everyone talked about, in the beginning months of the war, it was not going to be easy, quick, you know, and it was going to take a long time. >> who would have guessed it would come from the party of reagan? david, we also have, in the middle east, have bill burns, and the president's closer, going in, trying to make a deal withist reel and hamas. >> for hostages. >> actually qatar when it comes to hostages. what is going on there? >> i'm glad you used the term the president's closer to describe bill burns. the man who titled his own

book the back channel. he will negotiate to try to see if there can be a new deal to free, in stages, the 136 remaining hostages held by hamas in gaza. that's a lot of people. they have got -- the details of how it would work, pretty much preset. there would be an initial release of 10 women and children who were supposed to go out in the last deal, that fell apart at the beginning of december, and then another 40 elderly, sick, ailing people who will be released for humanitarian reasons, along with women who are some of the women soldiers, and a final group, that is large, maybe 80 plus people, that would include men, and

also the bodies of those who have died, either on october 7th or since in captivity. it's impossible to know how large that number is. this would be accompanied by a cease fire of at least a month or maybe longer in which there could be a real effort to alleviate the terrible suffering. i just want to underline that. i quoted somebody this week calling it unspeakable suffering of the palestinian civilians in gaza facing now the verge of famine. there's not enough food. facing pandemic disease as it spreads through the terribly dirty, crowded camps. there would be the opportunity to get humanitarian relief in to people and address the issues that anguishes israelis, i think, in their hearts more than any other, the fate of the

hostages, the people stolen away from them on october 7th, so this is an opportunity for deescalation, and the u.s. has been working very hard, and you know, say what you like about joe biden's team, but on this issue, trying to work to deescalate the war, i think they have done an extraordinarily good job. i hope bill burns in the next day or two can succeed. that would mark, i think, an inflection point in the war after three months of, let's be honest, of nightmare. >> yeah. >> we sure hope so for the sake of the families and hostages. david, i want to ask you about a fascinating story that broke yesterday as iranian backed groups are attacking american interests and ships in the red sea, the wall street journal broke the news that the united states privately warned iran in advance of the terrorist attack this month that killed more than 80 people in central city on january 3rd , targeting a

crmmemorating the annirsary of a general. citing american officials, the journal reports thinformation given to iran was specific enough to be helpful to the iranian government in either mitigating casualties or waing the attack all together, american intelligence. several officials said it's unclear why iran failed to stop or mitigate the attack. is this unusual, david, the united states is sharing intelligence with iran? especially in the midst of what is happening in the middle east right now? >> so, obviously, it doesn't happen often. i think this is an illustration, willie, of what information can do. when you have secrets like this, you sometimes have an interest in sharing them, even with your enemies to build up the liaison that exists. we don't hear about it, but

even in the times of the worst crisis, there's always continuing discussion. there's continuing discussion with the u.s. and iran through the back channels, quite apart from this. it's a shame that the iranians were not able to use the information to save the 80 plus people killed. it was a terrible bombing. the idea that the united states would try to help the iranians save lives against the terrorists even giving our relationship i thought was an illustration of what they should be doing. >> david, thank you very much for coming on this morning. jake sullivan is currently in thailand. he will meet with china's foreign minister. they will talk about the attacks in the red sea, and biden officials said the united states has asked china to

convey messages to iran throughout the conflict, aimed at avoiding escalation. another area of cooperation between china and the u.s. is action on the fentanyl crisis. senior officials in china have agreed to form a joint task force, aimed at limiting the flow of the precursors from the chinese chemical companies that are used to make synthetic fentanyl. in an exclusive interview, janice makifrayer spoke to officials about the task force, and janice is joining us now from beijing with more. janice, what can you tell us? >> the u.s. has long criticized chinese authorities for not doing enough to crack down on the supply chains here, the flow of precursors used in everyday things in industry and agriculture, and also used to produce the elicit fentanyl

that is killing for americans than any time in history. china's position has long been it's a demand problem and global supply chains are too complex to control. this meeting, that is set to happen here in beijing next week will mark a significant step. the first direct collaboration in years. the u.s. officials from homeland security and d.e.a. are traveling to china for the launch of what chinese officials describe as a joint task force. i salt down with the deputy director general of the narcotics control bureau for china's ministry of public security. i asked him what we can expect from china and if they will go after the chinese companies and individuals already indicted by the u.s. >> >>

is there no willingness to go after the companies indicted by the u.s.? [ speaking in a global language ] >> there hasn't been counternarcotics cooperation since august 2022 when china broke off talks for retaliation to nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan. there had not been meaningful progression since 2020 when the u.s. cited the national narcotics lab for links to

human rights abuses, and both of them were removed from the list in october, right after president biden met with china's president, xi jinping, a direct tradeoff to the cooperation we will see here next week. some republicans criticize it as a weak move, but it's widely seen as painfully necessary. when the bipartisan trip came here last october led by chuck schumer, six senators sat with xi jinping for 80 minutes, appealing to him directly, telling him stories of how fentanyl had hit their constituencies. they talked about the reputational benefit that could come to china by helping the united states. at this point, u.s. officials are resisting commenting on the meeting, or their expectations, and there's reason to be

skeptical, given that talks in the past have been easily derailed by politics and political tension with the u.s. and china. >> wow. janice, live in beijing, thank you very much for your report. coming up an early attempt of interference in the 2024 election. the new hampshire attorney general is investigating an apparent robo call that targeted democratic voters ahead of the state's primary. we will take a closer look at the efforts underway to prevent widespread election interference this year. >> expect a lot more of that. >> with a.i. >> yeah, as we move forward with a.i., that's something they really have to figure out how to clamp down on. >> that's just ahead on morning joe. head on morning joe. i'm an active mom, but when i laughed, lifted or exercised,

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artificial intelligence to mimic president biden's voice to urge voters to skip the democratic primary. listen to audio obtained by nbc news where fake recordings told voters their vote make as difference in november, not this tuesday. >> what a bunch of malarkey. you know the value of voting democratic when our votes count. it's important you save your vote for the november election. we will need your help in electing democrats up and down the ticket. voting this tuesday only enables the republicans in their quest to elect donald trump again. your vote makes a difference in november, not this tuesday. tu >> that was not the actual voice, of course, of president biden. joining us now the former director of the department of homeland security cyber security and infrastructure agency, chris krebs, president of pinnacle one. chris, good morning. this is the first of what i

guess could be many in this age of artificial intelligence, it's easy to mimic someone's voice. we have seen the deep fakes, and this is difficult for a lot of people to distinguish. who do we suspect is behind this? how did they pull it off? how easy is it to track them down? >> just to start, it's quite easy to generate this sort of content. something known as the 20 second rule. it only takes 20 seconds of a person's voiceprint to be able to generate content like this, and it's almost even easier then to get it out to the public with spoofing tools, spoofing apps, and websites, and to track them down, particularly if they are located in foreign countries, law enforcement has a bit of a challenge because of the cloaking techniques that can be used. i think that law enforcement, fbi, and the attorney general's

office will have a bit of a challenge in front of them, like they are having right now with the swatting attacks against public officials and folks in the media across the country. so this is quite the challenge, and i think it's unfortunately just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what we will see for the election season. >> so is this going to be the deep fake election? is that what we are in for? is there a way to make this stuff watermarked or some way that we can tell when it is a deep fake? that was pretty convincing. i mean, not that biden would ever say that, if you know anything of politics, you would say this can't be real, but people don't follow politics that closely, and it really sounded like joe biden's voice. >> it sure it. what surprised me the most,

people were answering their phones, but you have voicemails. the brookings institute released a paper saying there's two schools of thought right now, yes, this is the a.i. election or the period where it will be a big deal. the other, maybe we are overrotating a bit, and it's not going to be that much of an impact. i'm somewhere in between. i'm gravely concerned, but i also think that we do have a bit of diffusion in the media where the trends going to pop up and burn out pretty quickly, but more than anything, everyone is going to try it. foreign actors, domestic actors, dark money groups, we will see a lot of it. the question, is it going to make an impact, burn out and get ridiculed quickly as we have seen? as we get closer to election,

day of, night before, that's probably when the biggest risk window opens that people are paying the most attention, and they are really concerned, and there are some folks who will be highly susceptible to influence campaigns. >> chris, we saw the russian activity in 2016, and we know when it comes to a.i. the chinese seem to be dominating the space. can you talk about who the foreign actors are who are doing things? government sponsors? private groups? what that's their intent? >> a.i. in general right now, it's trivial to use. we tend to think of the proprietary models like chatgpt, but there's open- source models readily available out there. once they are out on the internet, they are forever. we have criminal groups using a.i. right now for fraud and phishing techniques, and really the way to stop that is better

security controls, and using a.i. enabled security defenses. we also know that security defenses and china and russia and iran and elsewhere, they are using it and studying a.i. on how to increase their information operation effectiveness. if we have seen anything over the last five, six, seven, eight years, attacks on elections are not just the technical attacks we thought of in 2016, going after the voter registration databases, but it's information warfare, going after the hearts and minds of election workers and the broader public. and that is, i think, really going to be the high volume space, and unfortunately we are entering the time when, perhaps, we are in a post-truth world, and this is where the bad actors really benefit, and

this is what bobby chesney from university of texas calls the period where they really benefit. >> chris, thank you very much for being on this morning. and the washington post, eugene robinson, thank you as well, as always. a former trump adviser is headed to prison. we will tell you who it is and why. plus president biden visits a battleground state after an economic report that exceeded expectations. we will hear for you his message to voters. morning joe is coming right back. voters. rning joe is coming right back. ping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good. [bell dings] are you good? no, i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. just tag us in. ouaaaahhhh! [bell dings] for a great low rate, go with the general.

look it was a good quarter. don't get me wrong. beat estimates. the last quarter was a good quarter. 4.9%. absolutely. he gets his deal. if i was he, i would be out slinging the hash, no problem. >> you have the dow with record after record after record. what do you say to the folks who say, wait a second, it's not as bad as you have been saying it is. >> i would say, probably i agree. how is that? >> wow, that's a headline. >> i'm an honest broker, and he got a good 3.3% gdp number following the good 3.3 in the third quarter. if i was he, i would be bragging about it, too. inflation has come down. all is fair in love, war, and politics. brag when you can. i get it.

i have been there. >> oh. that is former trump adviser larry kudloe conceding he was wrong about his long-time prediction of a recession under president biden. >> willie a lot of people wrong, any gosh, a lot of people in washington predicting it saying the smooth landing would not be possible. looks like we are moving in that direction. >> at some point the data is undeniable, even to the strongest supporters like larry. it's hard to argue with the dow setting a new record every day going over 38,000 with inflation objectively ticking down, and unemployment at historic lows, and he put it on display yesterday, you're presented with numbers, and it's hard to spin it any other way. things are not perfect, but they are most certainly getting better. you're right, wall street has been wrong about this, predicting the recession,

predicting 2% growth quarter in the last quarter of 2023. yesterday we learned it was over 3. the data continues to move in, making the case, it's good for joe biden, and also great for the country. means people are doing better. >> so katie kay is still with us. joining the conversation. former u.s. senator claire mccaskill. special correspondent of vanity fair, molly fast is with us. donny dueche is here, and former legal analyst joyce vance, cohost of sisters in law. >> claire, we have the chiefs this weekend, who just keep winning, up and down season,

and have not looked like the chiefs of old, but they have done what was required, including the massive win in buffalo last weekend, and they are going to be facing the baltimore ravens? what do you think? >> well, first of all, i love that we are the underdogs again, and they have actually moved the line this week, because so many people were betting on baltimore, against the chiefs, and i love that. we played the best game of the season going into a really hostile environment, frozen hellscape, as the underdog. i kind of like that we are rolling into baltimore as the underdog. it's all going to be decided, i think, frankly, whether or not our front line on defense can somehow hold the amazing versatile athlete, jackson, to reasonable numbers. if he is allowed to break free and run wild, we had a bad week last week stopping the run.

we have to stop lamar jackson on the run, or we could have a long afternoon. >> of course, willie, that's a tall, tall order. lamar really should be the mvp this year. him or mccaffrey. he is just -- you look at the good teams that baltimore has just destroyed, and they just keep getting better every week, and so, this is going to be a great matchup because you're going to have the tried and true kansas city chiefs, who have been there before, against arguably the best team in football. >> yeah, i would not root against patrick mahomes. i will start with that. you're right, lamar jackson will be the mvp. even mahomes said that. he's clearly the mvp of the league this year. it's a strange thing to say for the team with the best record in the league, dominate all year. the ravens have flown under the radar because so much of the

talk is always about the chiefs, adding in taylor swift to add to it, and the bills and all of the teams with rivalries, and the ravens get a big showcase on sunday against the chiefs with that huge spectacle and the chance to go to the super bo. on the other side of it, the 49ers have had a great season. brocpuy is a great story. with apologies to my friends in san francisco, how can you not root for the lions to go to their first super bowl. >> go lions. >> that city deserves it. >> yeah, i mean seriously. i agree with you. what a game. what a city. we will see what happens this weekend. donnie, seldom do you have parties as stupid as the current republican party led by donald trump. you now have donald trump -- we saw what larry said, and we see what the editor of the wall street journal editorial page says, the economy is the winner

of 2023, storming into 2024, doing better than any economy in the world, major economy in the world, and just crushing china right now, and republicans want to do two things. one, donald trump wants the economy to crash. he want as depression to come. he wants joe biden to be herbert hoover. he wants people's livelihoods and retirements destroyed. he said it, so he can be elected president of the united states, and then you have house republicans, and donald trump now, and some senate republicans, just saying no to the toughest border bill in history, stabbing the ukrainians in the back. stabbing israel in the back, and not funding these fights for freedom where you're

actually trying to push back a russian aggressor. >> it's interesting. the one thing that donald trump always had going for him, and it never made sense because we have spent so much time talking about what a rogue and just disgusting human being he is, he was able to say to voters, i care about you. i'm here for you. when you start to say things like, i'm rooting for a depression or i'm not going to vote for this border bill because it's not good for me, you can no longer say i care about you, the voter, and this is going to come back to haunt him. immigration was the one thing that i was so worried about, still worried about obviously both as a person and political analyst. that's been taken away from him. you can continually say donald trump killed the bill. he doesn't have his hands on it, but he's behind it. donald trump is rooting for a depression. donald trump wants to take health care away. donald trump wants to end

democracy. he's not interested in protecting democracies around the world. donald trump is not interested in protecting your right to choose. a lot of chips against him. >> he said i want the economy in a depression because i want to win. two, i want to keep the borders open over the next year with fentanyl and illegal immigrants flooding across because i want to win. a man who says when i get elected, i'm going to take your health care away, and a man who is bragging about the fact that he quote, terminated roe v. wade. now he is saying, i really like orbon, the guy who discarded western democracy for liberalism. he said americans need an

authoritarian, a strong man. >> trumpism is about the burn it down caucus. they don't want to legislate. legislation is solving problems. they don't want the government to work. when you see the freedom caucus, that's what the situation is. they always want to stop the legislation because they can't -- you know, they are afraid of the government working because the whole thesis is to make the government as small as possible. i do think it is going to be a problem for trump, and a lot of the economic populism that he ran on in 2016, you know, i'm going to do for you, and i'm going to bring back coal, it may not have been true, but people thought it was true, or people could grab on to it. trump is not doing that this time. this is really defendant trump verses candidate trump. he has a totally different set of needs, many of which run contrary to candidate trump. >> so this one is for joyce, a

federal judge appointed by president reagan is calling out republican rhetoric surrounding the january 6th insurrection. while re-sentencing a january 6th rioter yesterday, the judge blasted consve lawmakers for their preposterous claims and for trying to rewrite history, quote, the t is accustomed to defendantso refuse to accept they did anything wrong, but in my 37 years on the bench, i cannot re time when such merit-less justifications of criminal activity have gone main street. >> met-less justification of criminal activity. >> the rioters interfed with a necessary epin the constitutional process, disrupted by the ul transfer of power, and

jeopardized the constitutional order. it was not patriotism. he did not mention donald trump by name, but he specifically called out language used by trump and his allies who have described january 6th defendants as hostages. joyce, does this give us any indication, president, any impact on donald trump's cases on these issues? >> so this was a real shocker from the judge. quite frankly you don't see federal judges weigh in with this sort of language. i think we say unprecedented all the time, but this really is. the implication for donald trump, it's hard to say. is there a sense in the judiciary enough is enough? perhaps we have reached the point where the judges have begun to realize the traditional slow-rolling criminal justice process needs to be amped up if we are going to protect the constitution the way it needs to be protected in

2024. >> yeah, this is certainly striking, again, for who says it. a federal judge appointed by ronald reagan, and it is, at the same time, such evidence of the utter grip that donald trump has on the republican party. the big lie is part of the bloodstream, and the judge did note a few elected officials, not by name, but by words and what they said and how they down played on january 6th, calling those in prison hostages, and suggesting they are political prisoners. you know, and as we have seen nearly on a daily basis, there's no sign of the wavering. you know this is a real challenge for the biden team as they frame this election, and they are going to talk about democracy, democracy, democracy, but seems like half of the country has made up their mind and picked against them. >> this is a judge appointed by reagan, not donald trump. i think we may have had a different set of words from someone that donald trump had appointed. we saw in iowa, in new

hampshire, the number of republicans who voted in both the caucuses and primaries, who believe that joe biden did not win the 2020 election and donald trump did. it's staggeringly high. i think when the white house goes out, they are going to look at donald trump, dobbs, and democracy as the selling points, but if half of the country has already decided democracy is sort of something that they have prepared to bet against because they saw what happened on january 6th and they are fine with that, that will be a tricky sell. for all of the polling suggests that for people who think democracy is an important issue, they are already going to be voting for the democratic party, and voting for joe biden, and the question is how many independents can he win? what are the issues tapping into the independents? i'm not sure that democracy is an issue according to the polling that he will get people

away from the fence they are still sitting on. joyce, another legal matter for donald trump. he will be in the courtroom in lower manhattan for the penalty phase of the e. jean carroll defamation trial. he took the stand yesterday, the former president did, under three minutes with strict rules from the judge abouwhat he could and could not talk about. he managed to violate the rules twice in three minutes complaining it was unfair to him. in the last hour, we talked about maybe by the end of today, lisa ruben said the jury may want to reach a decision after closing arguments about how much donald trump owes e. jean carroll. what's your sense of things today? >> juries can be so unpredictable. the earlier jury in the first trial came back quickly. no guarantees that will help again. the difficult issue the jury has to resolve, there will be compensatory damages, and

testimony talking about a range roughly $7 million to $12 million that it would cost to repair e. jean carroll's reputation. the more difficult issue is punitive damages, meant to deter him from repeating his conduct. i think we will see interesting arguments. yesterday e. jean carroll's lawyer put in to evidence, tapes of his deposition in the fraud case, showing trump boasting about the value of his brand and talking about his billions, and so carroll's lawyers will tell the jury, you must return a damages award in an amount that is sufficient to get the attention of the self- proclaimed billionaire. it may take the jury awhile to sort that one out. >> interesting. former trump aide peter navarro sentenced to four months in prison for contempt

of congress. convicted of refusing to testify and supply documents for the january 6th committee after envoking executive privilege, despite the fact they sought information related to the trump campaign not in the white house. at the sentencing yesterday, the federal judge admonished him for his lack of remorse. joyce, does he have right to jail? or does an appeal keep him out? how does this impact other members of trump's team and trump himself in terms of the outcome. >> the judge didn't rule immediately if he will get an appellate bond. you're only supposed to stay out during an appeal after being sentenced if your appeal raises significant nonfrivolous issues. i think it's a foregone conclusion. he's not entitled to immunity because joe biden refused to

extend the executive branch immunity here, but steve bannon has stayed out on bond while appealing. i think it's likely navarro will get the same treatment. >> i'm curious your thoughts, claire, as a senator and prosecutor, about the sentencing. >> well, you know, as a american, i wish it was four years instead of four months, but it's always heartening to see the system work, and to see someone who has worn a suit and tie to work forever, in the halls power, be held accountable for refusing. you know, i wish more people had been charged with contempt of congress. i understand why they weren't, but congress has to work on oversight. as a side, joe, as you were talking about, what mcconnell said yesterday, and people were reporting he was folding to trump, let me give you another view of that. you know what i think mcconnell was doing yesterday?

making trump own the fact he was trying to stop the border control bill. he did that so everybody would understand that it is donald trump calling these senators, like ridiculous ron johnson and the other trump lackeys in the republican caucus and the house that is being called by trump and told by trump, don't fix the border. don't fix the border. that's what i think what mcconnell was doing. of course you immediately saw thom tillis and romney and others stepping up and saying that's exactly what is happening. donald trump is keeping the border open. so kudos to mcconnell for very the strategy. he has this thing now wide open. >> all right, and former u.s. attorney joyce bance, thank you for being on. mark theeson was on fox news talking about why he thinks president trump may end up

losing the election this november. >> i'm not surprised he's raising money. what i'm worried about is his ability to win over haley voters once this is over. he says anyone making a perm nation to bird brain will be permanently banned from maga, does that apply to the voters, too? he lost in 2020 because he lost the swing voters in three states. 43,000 voters will decide the election next november. he has to win them over. they are not maga. they are democrats or republicans who are not fans of his. he has to win them over. you don't ban people from maga if you want to be president of the united states again. >> we have seen this before, molly, saw it in the arizona governor race where lakes said mccain republicans are not welcome in this party.

that's exactly who you want in the party. we heard mtg and others, i think in new hampshire, talking about how they were going to expunge people from the party or expel. i don't know what they were saying, but something exclusionary. we are going to push more people out of this party, boil it down, and make it even more hard core and more pure, and here you have donald trump doing the same thing. it's the last thing you want to do. ronald reagan in 1980, what did he do after he got through the tough, tough primary fight with george h.w. bush? he hired his campaign manager, james a. baker iii who became his important cabinet member and chief of staff. that's missing in magaland. they want to push away the people who are not hard core.

that's how you lose another election, isn't it? >> look, trump has done it since the beginning. most times a president says i'm the president for all americans, but because trump, i actually think it's because he had the shifting electorate and all of the voters who had not voted, i think he thought, and in fact, i know, they thought they could get more of the voters. sort of the supply, and they did not do this thing where they appealed for all voters. you're seeing that again. he is just, you know, the base is smaller and harder than ever. they live in an earth two zone where trump can set the narrative and able to define the truth, which is quite scary, and i think, very worrying. >> donny, to go back to joe's point about marjorie taylor greene, her quote the other day, for people who don't get

in line and follow donald trump, we are completely irradicating them. if you don't follow him, you don't have a place in the party according to marjorie taylor green. >> i will tell you the big problem that trump has and will have, that's with women. nikki haley, you talked about it a lot this week, and i want to go back to it. i think she's going to be the real thorn in his side. we have never seen trump go against woman except hillary. he was able to attack her to bill clinton and make her crooked hillary. it's difficult with haley. about the dress, first he said, it's fancy, not so fancy, and she has this way, and she has just started to do it, kind of flicking him in the nose and saying are you afraid? he's insecure, and you're afraid.

for some reason, she occupies a different space with him as far as going against the woman than hillary did. >> i agree. >> it's going to be -- watch the poll number in the next month, and she's not going away. hillary clinton -- excuse me. nikki haley is going to be the secret weapon. this is a woman he does not know how to go up against. hillary was an easy target for him, obviously with roe v. wade, it's really, he has got a problem with swing voters, and he has got a real problem with women and her name is nikki haley. >> that is exactly the topic of morning makeup, actually. the unique position that nikki haley is in as a southern woman, a mother, and he hired her as his u.n. ambassador. >> said she did a great job. >> a public servant, and also from the south, and she's still standing in the primary. it's a completely different scenario, and i think his

attacks could turn some people off, perhaps some people who have not been able to see it up until now. if he does it to nikki haley, and she comes back strong and punches hard, it could be interesting. he could have damage from a completely different angle for the first time. >> he could. again, her home state, and she is going to be there for a month, and he is afraid to debate her. that's something she should say every day. why is donald trump scared of me? i would say why is he being a snowflake? afraid he is going to melt on stage? the thing is, he is showing extreme weakness, and i mean, i think it's fair for her to ask. are his handlers keeping him away from the debate stage because they are scared he will go out and once again forget what decade this is? forget who he is running against? forget that world war ii ended in 1945? forget that nancy pelosi was

speaker of the house on january the 6th, not nikki haley? forget that joe biden is president of the united states and not -- barack obama? i mean, they are scared. they are scared because they think that they have to bubble wrap him because he will do so badly on the debate stage. she does need to bring that up. >> yeah. >> every single day. >> isn't it also for the republican party? i mean what if something pops with one of his cases and something catastrophic happens with the cases? isn't she then an option for them as opposed to no option? >> there's no reason for her to get out of the race, whether she takes him head on in south carolina. >> wait it out. >> or whether she fights the war of attrition. again, he is scared. like everybody take note in the republican party. donald trump is scared to debate nikki haley.

in maga land, let me put it to you this way, you're a big boy. you big man, he's afraid of a woman. >> yeah. >> he is afraid to debate a woman. he calls her bird brain. if she's bird brain, then -- >> debate her. >> why doesn't he go up on the stage? you know why. he is going to start babbling about, nikki haley being speaker of the house and babbling about barack obama and world war ii and start babbling about windmills and babbling about really weird things, and let's just face it, i think the people around him have decided donald trump is just not up to this anymore. we are going to try to hide him. we are going to keep him off the debate stage, because nikki haley would bury him alive. let's bring in the executive director of libertarian policy institute. nick, you're also the new hampshire guy. give us a wrapup from your point of view about what happened in new hampshire a

couple of days ago. >> yeah, new hampshire, just this last tuesday, you know, nikki haley did come in a strong second after consolidating all of the chris christie voters and it's the number that tells you the path she does or doesn't have. 58% of the independent voters who chose to participate in the republican party primary here, clearly meeting donald trump for the independent line. the problem is, she got 25% of the republican registered voters who participated in the primary. every primary from here on out is more republican and less independent. the fact of the matter is, donald trump has built the party around himself. he put rhonda mcdaniel in place, trying to solidify before there's elections.

and it's a challenge to convince people who are identified with and aligned with a strong man figure, and they should abandon him. they don't see it as winning elections. >> well -- nick, let me ask you this. >> they see it as an avatar of them. >> i'm glad you brought that up. as a guy that has dedicated a lot of your adult life to building the libertarian party and fighting for smaller government, more responsive government, where do libertarians go when you look at both parties and see the republican party, who is supposed to be the party of small government, instead of supporting the president who talks about more freedom, smaller and more responsive government, you have got a guy who is talking about being a strong man, like orbot. i need more power, donald trump says. i need the fcc power in the white house. i need to destroy the bureau so i have more power myself.

that's number one, and then number two, you have a guy who wants to get reelected who promised to balance the budget and ended up being the biggest spender in the history of the republic. >> reporter: you know, i think this is a huge opportunity for the libertarian nominee if they take a path of talking about donald trump and how he is a big government guy, how he is an authoritarian who wants to control your life in different ways from joe biden, different ways, but equally scary for independents, women, and the libertarian party for 50 years has been pro-choice on everything, and now the guy running single handedly put in place the overturning of roe v. wade. i think there has to be someone willing to call him out in the general election, and it looks

like haley east path may end because the money is going to run out. hoffman pulled his financial support after the 12-point loss to trump in new hampshire. smart investors say there's not a path for her because she is too close to him. she is an echo, not a choice. >> interesting. >> executive director of the libertarian policy institute nick sarwack. thank you for being here. mollie and claire, thank you also for being on. still ahead on morning joe, a conversation on antisemitic incidents in the u.s. on the eve of holocaust remembrance day. jonathan greenblat will join us for that. recognizing some of the most impactful works in journalism. we will break down the winners of the dupont columbia awards.

before we go to break, willie, what do you have for sunday today? >> "oppenheimer" was nominated for 13 awards including best picture. matt damon, one of the stars of that movie, in an incredible cast with nominees all over the place. a great conversation. talking about this movie, his career beginning from good will hunting to working with ben affleck in this year's air. that's sunday today this weekend. we will be right back on morning joe. be right back on morning joe. shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. need a fast and secure way to take payments? we've got you covered. how about card readers that you can rely on? yep, that too. want one place to manage every

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tomorrow is holocaust remembrance day. on january 27, 1945, the concentration camp was liberated, and the date of remembrance ofcially established in 2005. as our next guest explains, holocaust remembrancday carries more significance this year as the world has been seeing a rise in antisemitic incidents since the start of the israel-hamas war. joining us now ceo of the antidefamation league. jonathan, it's good to have you back on. tell us more about how tomorrow is significant and perhaps more meaningful than ever before. >> thank you. holocaust remembrance day is a solemn remembrance of the auschwitz camp. the clips of you and joe standing under the gate that

says work makes us free. we know ignorance enslaves us all. we are living in a time of i would call it denialism. we have literally done the polling. 35% of the world population believes the holocaust didn't happen or was exaggerated. the single most significant tragedy of the 20th century. right? the annihilation, the extermination across countries and continents of the single people, simply because of their identity. it's this ominous memory, and today denialism lurks again on social media. it's a super spreader of ignorance, and lurks in the halls of power, and of course it lurks in gaza, where the denialism spread by hamas reminds us in many ways of the

holocaust denialism saying the attack was a false flag. the women who were brutalized and raped, it didn't really happen, and the israelis are harvesting organs. it's a different denialism. as president obama said, history may not repeat himself, but it rhymes, and we can all hear the ominous rhymes when the lies about october 7th are spread. it's a moment when we need education and solidarity, i think, more than ever. >> jonathan, you mentioned the stunningly frighting figure, a third of the world denies the holocaust or thinks it's exaggerated. since october 7th, we know the hate crimes against jews are. i have a problem that the media caravan has moved on a bit and

it's hovering, and the fight against ansetism is losing steam. what are you ing about it? >> look, you're not wrong. i think we live in the moment as a brand guy, and you know it better than anybody. our attention span has been shrunken to nothing. it moves out of the news cycle, no longer days, but hours or minutes it feels like because of x and facebook and et cetera. we are pushing r holocaust education. it's crucial that kids learn about what happened, this tragedy, in school, because, again, we are doomed to repeat history if we don't learn from it. we think holocaust education matters. we are pushing for mandates in schools all over the country, and especially as you said at a time when antisemitism is up everywhere. the graphic just on the screen shows it. it's in america, the u.k., france, canada, belgium,

australia. the numbers of acts of violence have skyrocketed. the only way we beat the intolerance is with education. that's what we need more than ever. that's why holocaust education matters so much. speaking of education, a new piece in the online piece airmail is looking at ivy league schools and specifically the athletic departments at the institions amid the rise of antisemitism reported on campuses across the country. the new report highlights how several student athletes and their parents are calling on those univerti to take a firmer stand against antisemitism and to do more to combat it, calling the leadership in the schools' sports departments, conspicuously silent on the issue. bringing in the author of the piece, joanna rkman. you write, and i think it's

fascinating and very revealing. you write in part this, and i will read from the article. just before winter break, a jewish athlete i spoke to columbia told me there's not been a mention of antisemitism or the attacks on israel from my sports team or my athletic department. they are acting like it's not going on. you have people in the middle ofams calling for the genocide of jews and the destruction of the jewish state. he started to carry a pocket ife, and while he still wears the star of david, he tucks it in his shirt. it's completely shamed the way i go about my day-to-day life. a lumbia statement read antisemitism or any form of hate can lead to acts of harament or violence. when this type of speech is unlawful or violates university rules, it will not be tolerated. the rest of the ivy league did

not respond to roquetteses for comment, also not responding, ivy league schools to letters, johanna that parents wrote them and coauthored. tell us about rich silversteen and other parents trying to talk about the antisemitism on campus. >> rich silversteen who lives in chicago, the father of two ivy athletes. one son was the cocaptain of the harvard basketball team, and another is a rower at princeton. basically the last several years since 2020, since the murder of george floyd, the ivy league, an athletic conference. we often forget that. started to make statements and doing social justice campaigns and what rich silversteen said is my son has taken a knee

happily for every cause under the sun. we have a problem with antisemitism. it's not abstract. it's here, on our campus, in the ivy league, can you help us out and do something about antisemitism. >> what is the ivy league's response here? what are they saying to the parents individually raising the concern and at large, what are they doing about this? >> they are really not doing anything, and that is what they told this father, who by the time he sent several different e-mails had hundreds of parents and athletes who signed on kind of a petition with his e-mail, and at first, he was literally met with silence. several days later, he wrote again, interestingly on the second time that he reached out on the topic, he added in all of the ivy league presidents on his message. what was interesting about that, in many american colleges. the people with power in athletics are the coaches and the heads of the athletic

leagues. what i understand from my sources, at the ivy league, the university presidents have the power. when he added them in, he got a response from the executive director of the league within hours. >> jonathan, your take on this. take the final word on the matter. >> it's stunning. often times there's abrasive antisemitism. someone yelling, screaming, assaulting the person, but often we have erasive antisemitim. it's not affording jews the level of dignity or respect you would anyone else. i have no problem with they don't stand up for any cause, but the only cause they stand up for, you know, or they don't stand up for, sorry, is antisemitism. a lot of the schools are d.e.i. training, but if it perpetuates the exclusion of jews as we saw with the university presidents

last month when they testified, that's a problem. i think the only thing jewish people want, parents of college students like myself and others, all we want is equal treatment. that should not be so hard in america. >> outside of colleges, also, that's just what we want period. >> yeah. >> airmail's joanna berkman, thank you for your reporting. jonathan greenblat, thank you as well, as always.

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news reporting with last night's annual dupont columbia awards. the 16 honorees including reports, podcasts, and documentaries covered a wide range of topics from the horrors of russia's attacks on ukraine and the documentary "20 days in mariupol" to the crisis in the united states in the film "aftershock." joining us now, the dean of columbia university school of journalism, jalani cobb. he's also a staff writer at "the new yorker." well, what an incredible set of content here that was honored last night. i think first of all, talk about why it's important once in a while to take a moment and honor reporters who have either put their lives on the line or stayed at it to uncover stories. >> well, you know, mika, you know this as well as anyone that journalism takes, you know, its

hits. we get criticized frequently, and when we get something wrong, people let us know. even in this moment where we look at all the difficulty and the layoffs and so on, it's easy to get a gloomy perspective about what it is that we do, but that's what makes these awards so special, you know. we honor just a sliver of the excellence that we see in broadcast journalism each year, and, you know, this year was just stunning, you know, the caliber of work that we had to choose from, and the caliber of work that we ultimately honored on stage last night. >> i'm glad you brought up what a tough week it has been for the industry, whether it's "the los angeles times" or "sports illustrated" or so many more all doing important work. tell us about the reporting you did honor last night. it was a terrific evening up there on campus including the local tv stations reporting about the shooting in uvalde. >> yeah, sure. so one quick point that i'll say

in the previous segment mentioned holocaust remembrance day, and we were fortunate to honor ken burns' really incredible six-part documentary on the u.s. and the holocaust. that was one of our award recipients last night, and then the work around uvalde from the austin statesman which really was at the forefront of breaking the narrative that we had. we were told one thing about police behavior in the midst of that massacre, and then they just painstakingly pieced together minute by minute what was happening, where the police were located, what was going on in the classroom, and someone completely dispelled the official version of what the police had been doing, and when we saw that more than hour-long period of inaction in which people were dying, children were dying, teachers were dying, and so, you know, that work was as excellent as it was unsettling. >> jelani, tell us a little bit

about the team that went into afghanistan for the front-line documentary there. as a country, it's incredibly hard to access and this was a female iranian british journalist who went in at a time when it's really hard for women in afghanistan to leave the house almost let alone start asking questions and start filming. how did they do it? how did they put this documentary together and what did they find? >> you know, we say this all the time, you know, that people risk their lives in order to bring information to the public and this was just a sterling example of it. the resourcefulness that these people had to deploy, you know, stashing cameras in the sleeves of their clothing and kind of surreptitiously recording and then the women who were interviewed about the conditions under the taliban who were risking their lives just to talk, and, you know, saying explicitly, please tell the world what is happening to us,

and, you know, it's just -- having been on the other side of that, the level of responsibility you feel for people when they are willing to die in order to inform the public is just, you know, humbling. >> and jelani, especially with the state of women's health care in decline given the overturning of roe and other things, tell us about "aftershock." >> mm-hmm. "aftershock" is another really impressive work of journalism directed by tanya lewis lee and, you know, it traced the astounding disparities we see in maternal health care, particularly maternal mortality with black women being far and away more likely to die as a result of childbirth, and, you know, there's a kind of contemporary point to this which is that in the places where we

saw the highest disparities in maternal health care, maternal mortality, we've also seen the strictest abortion bans come into effect, and so we are likely to be compounding an already terrible problem with public policy, and so this film really gives us a view into what happened with two particular families and how they are unfortunately grieving women who should still be here with us today. >> dean of columbia university school of journalism and staff writer at "the new yorker," jelani cobb, thank you very much for coming on this morning with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. and up next, we'll recap donald trump's meltdown in court and get a preview of today's closing arguments in his second defamation trial. also ahead, tesla is coming off its worst day on wall street in over a year. cnbc's andrea rasorkin will join us with other big business

headlines. and before we go to break, i mentioned our latest episode of "morning mika" available right now on youtube and peacock. this week we took on nikki haley's potential secret power in the presidential race, and how she can turn the tables on donald trump simply by staying in the race. after all, she's in this unique position as the party's last best option if trump, i don't know, perhaps gets hauled off to jail or something. here's part of my opening monologue and what we can expect in the lead-up to the south carolina primary. >> oh, no to nikki. oh, yeah. you can expect a full takedown operation in the weeks to come of this mother of two whom he hired as his u.n. ambassador, who served as south carolina's governor, whose husband is deployed in the army overseas. yet i wonder if that could actually backfire and damage trump in a way no democrat has

been able to do. think of it. nikki haley lurking through the primaries, just waiting for a shoe to drop. maybe trump loses a case or simply loses his mind thinking about spending the rest of his life in jail. if i were nikki, i'd hang on too. the cuckoo clock just could run out. >> you can see the entire episode and hear what jen psaki, huma abedin and others had to say on "morning mika." we're back in two minutes. say on "morning mika." we're back in two minutes.

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donald trump is out there trying to win over the voters that matter most, his juries. [ laughter ] >> he showed up to speak on his own behalf and everything went smoothly until the judge asked him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and everybody busted out

laughing, but -- >> good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, january 26th. we have a lot to get to this morning. >> a lot. >> donald trump's latest temper tantrum. this was in court. we'll go through his very brief testimony and get legal analysis ahead of today's closing arguments in the defamation damages trial, how much he should pay. meanwhile, trump continues to work behind the scenes and on social media to tank a deal on border security and foreign aid in the capitol. we'll show you his latest post aimed at republicans and play for you the handful of gop lawmakers standing up to the former president. also ahead, president biden hits the road following a surprisingly strong economic report. the data is so good that even a former trump adviser had to admit the president should be bragging about it. plus, we'll go through a significant development in the hostage negotiations between israel and hamas as the cia

director is now set to travel abroad in hopes of closing a deal. >> so willie, you know, in washington of course, the big question is whether the republicans are going to stab -- you keep stabbing ukraine in the back, stabbing israel in the back and calling for open borders until donald trump is the president of the united states. the lead editorial in "the wall street journal" talks about a gop border reckoning where it says -- it says, giving up on the border, a security bill would be a self-inflicted gop wound. president biden would claim with cause that republicans want border chaos as an election issue rather than solving the problem. the house funded negotiations before christmas on the theory that ukraine could hang on until february without a fresh weapons infusion. now another month that has passed. the u.s. is careening into a moment of growing dangers around

the world. both a tighter border and a vote for a stable europe are an american interest. better to act now than fail and live with the consequences. you know, they're just saying outright what a lot of republicans were saying on the hill yesterday which is, this is reckless. you've got donald trump saying let fentanyl flood across the border and kill americans over the next year. let illegal immigrants keep flooding over the border. let's not have a solution. i mean, this whole donald trump idea that keeping the border open is a winner for republicans strikes "the wall street journal" and most sane americans as just out, you know, just crazy. >> it is, and it's such a revealing moment about this moment in time for the republican party which is to say they have in front of them senate and house republicans, a deal that if you handed it to them a couple of years ago or before donald trump was ever

around, they would have been thrilled with. this is what they have been talking about for several years now, that this border is a problem, the border is a crisis and now they've got something to do with it, and why are they not doing it? to protect donald trump. i mean, this -- there are a few moments along the way, and this is really one of them that just really clarify and tell you the whole story which is, are you working on behalf of the country? are you working on behalf of people who want to see the border crisis resolved, that they don't want drugs flooding in, that they think there should be an orderly and legal immigration system in this country? that's what you said you wanted for generations and here it is, and you won't take it because donald trump is calling your office and telling you not to do it, and now yesterday he said publicly on his truth social, don't do a deal until i get there, and then i'll fix everything. >> yeah. >> and then you have -- >> unbelievable. >> -- the speaker of the house talking about how horrible the border is yesterday, how they want to impeach mayorkas. you've got other people like tommy tuberville talking about

fentanyl and illegal immigrants flooding across the, quote, open border, and they have a chance to close the border. they have a chance for the biggest border security bill ever, and they're the ones who are killing it. make no mistake. mike johnson is killing our best chance to have a border security bill that actually works. all these republicans doing the same, mika, and as "the wall street journal" said, if they want to run with -- on the platform of, we hope the economy is destroyed and let's keep the border open, let them do it. they're going to lose the house. they'll lose the senate and the white house. >> well, add the overturning of roe to that, they're just going to -- i mean, america is trying to get solutions to guns, to women's rights, and to things like this. >> border security. >> i mean, it's important to

both sides. it's definitely important to the republican side. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, and pulitzer prize-winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson is with us this morning. we're lucky to have a great group. why don't you take our top story? >> donald trump back in court testifying though briefly in the defamation damages trial involving writer e. jean carroll. he's expected to be in court again today for closing arguments. trump was scolded by louis caplan before he took the stand while his attorney was talking to the judges about the limits of trump's testimony. before the jury was brought inside the courtroom, judge kaplan reiterated the previous trial found trump liable for defamation and sexual abuse restricting what trump could say on the stand yesterday. when trump finally did take the

stand, his testimony lasted only about three minutes, and he defied the limits placed on his testimony twice in three minutes calling the abuse accusations false, and prompting the judge to order the jury to disregard trump's statements. last year a jury found trump sexually abused and defamed carroll. this trial is to determine the amount of damages carroll will now receive. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin who was inside the courtroom yesterday. good morning. only about three minutes on the stand for donald trump. what was it like in the courtroom? >> it was extraordinarily tense and intense, willie, when donald trump took the stand. i think it was a day that i and many other legal analysts on this network told you was never going to happen, and it sort of didn't happen, right? because he was only on the stand in his direct for about three minutes, and all of the questions that he answered are ones that voters and jurors have

heard him answer multiple times before. there was nothing new added by donald trump taking the stand other than the assuaing of his ego, and perhaps the opportunity for him to say very loudly when he left the courtroom, "this is not america, this is not america, this is not america" because he doesn't understand that litigation is essentially a well-regulated game and it has rules and he and his lawyers have repeatedly not played by those rules and there are consequences. >> they certainly do, and the judge made sure that the jury knew exactly what donald trump had been found liable of, right? in the most graphic terms after he was lying and saying all this was just, you know, a witch hunt, talk about that. >> well, joe, that's going to happen again today at much greater length when after closing arguments and each side has told judge kaplan they only expect to take about one hour each, the judge will then deliver a much longer set of

jury instructions and part of those jury instructions will be to say to the jury in greater exposition what he said to the parties yesterday. mr. trump has already been found liable for sexually assaulting ms. carroll by forcibly inserting his fingers into her vagina. that is the fact. that is a fact found by a jury of nine of his peers last may, six men, three women, and he will also tell them that that same jury found donald trump liable for defaming ms. carroll by denying the truth of those allegations. today's jury, the decision for them turns on not whether donald trump defamed e. jean carroll, but how much damage he did to her not only by making his initial statements in june of 2019 when he was still president, but then continuing to double down on those statements for years thereafter. starting after the verdict last may when he went on cnn and denied on it stage with kaitlyn collins and then has continued

to do it almost daily since. we obviously have seen footage of him doing it last week in new hampshire. we have numerous and copious truth social posts where he's denying it, and we're being introduced to the worst. >> closing arguments are set to begin. give us a sense as to what we might hear in the closing arguments and what's the timeline going forward? when do we think the jury will get this, and when will they reach a decision? >> let me start with what i think we'll hear today. i think from e. jean carroll's lawyers, we will hear them go through the evidence they adduced about the damage done to her, and i want to make sure you and our viewers understanunders. it's not just about the reputational damage. reputationly, it would cost between $7 million and $12 million to repair, but she's also experienced severe

emotional pain and suffering from the sort of death threats and rape threats that have come into her as she testified almost daily since his defamation began four years ago, roughly. four-plus years ago. we'll hear that from her lawyers asking the jury to really put a dollar amount on that, the emotional harm in addition to the reputation, and then ask the jury the most consequential question of all. what will it take to make donald trump stop? how much money will it take in punitive damages to punish him for his ongoing misconduct? on trump's side, what they will say is e. jean carroll wanted to be famous. she publicized this story. going forward was her choice. she assumed some of that risk, and donald trump can't be solely responsible for it in the same way her reputation was enhanced in certain circles. they have argued that e. jean carroll has become a celebrity, a liberal cause, a hollywood party-goer, in part because she has brought these allegations

against donald trump. they're going to say, you, jury, should offset those damages against the way in which this woman has been enhanced in our community. i know that sounds farcical, but the way in which she's been elevated in our community by these allegations and then in terms of the timing. i think we'll start to see the jury deliberate this afternoon. jurors notoriously as you were told last hour, hate to come back after a weekend. judge kaplan has made provisions for them to have meals late into the night tonight. i think if it takes them staying after hours tonight to reach a verdict and they believe that they're deliberating in good faith and getting toward one, we could see a verdict later on tonight. if not, we'll come back monday and we'll see what they do then. >> lisa, in the first trial, they did come back within hours. >> they did. >> we know juries can do that. they may well do that in this case. put some kind of numbers on this of what would look like a victory for e. jean carroll and her lawyers and what would look like a victory for donald trump.

what's the kind of scale of compensation of damages here? >> first of all, katty, we're looking at something far more than what she was awarded last time, where the award was $5 million based on her sexual assault and defamation claims solely stemming from one incident in october of 2022, but you and i both know the first time you tell a lie, it's far more damaging, right? what we're looking at here is e. jean carroll's lawyers looking for $20 million to compensate her for her injuries and somewhere in the range of four or five or six times that even for punitive damages. it's not clear if they will ask for a specific amount or multiplier, but they will say, think of what this guy told you in the deposition clips he told you. he told you he was worth billions and billions of dollars in his brand alone. he has more than $400 million

cash on hand. make it hurt. coming up, a u.s. senator says it would be immoral to sink an immigration deal at behest of donald trump. >> and is a republican senator from a swing state who is saying it. >> thom tillis and several of his gop colleagues are breaking with the front-runner for president. "morning joe" is back in a moment. president. "morning joe" is back in a moment

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cloudy skies actually over parts of washington, and willie, very cloudy skies over all of my sports teams. >> aww. >> i was told yesterday big al had entered the transfer portal. we've sort of -- we've done triage and now players have looked at this coach who was, like, i don't know, 35-3 at washington and said, maybe we can stay here. but, you know, people are, like, oh, joe alabama, the

front-runner. no. i went 30 years as an alabama fan. i had one national championship before nick saban came, right? liverpool hadn't won the premier league in 30 years until jurgen klopp came, and this morning john oliver a lot of liverpool fans across the fan, jonathan lemire, you're one of them, getting the very bad news that like nick saban, jurgen klopp is exhausted and he is retiring at the end of the year. >> wow. >> yeah. devastating news here for liverpool fans. jurgen klopp, one of the very best coaches in the world and put out an announcement just a few minutes ago on the team website putting that he's burned out and doesn't feel like he can give it his all anymore. he's going to stay until the end of the season which is a promising year for liverpool, right? they're at the top of the table right now in the premier league, but this is the end of an era. he's a beloved coach. his players love him. he has brought in top, top talent and improved the team and

it's a marvelous team and he's a great guy and a great coach, but he is moving on, and adding to the list of legends, nick saban, bill belichick, now jurgen klopp all moving on, coaches across sports and continents. a sad day for liverpool for sure. >> you and john oliver as i said are my points of reference on liverpool, and john oliver as we said in that pub, mchales spoke in reverential tones about klopp. is he nick saban to alabama fans? is he bill belichick to pate -- patriots fans? >> i mean, for liverpool fans he certainly is. this is a team that -- >> yeah. >> it was really the greatest english team ever, and then they just, they went on an absolute 30-year tear. horrid, horrid collapse. jurgen klopp came in, built them

back to front. it was an extraordinary job. they won the premier league for the first time in history, and then they won the champions league, champions of europe, and other, you know, other trophies. he's massive, and so yet another loss for the good guys. i think, mika, i'm going to start following the williams australian rules football. >> okay. >> that's what my future holds for me. >> all right. whatever gets us to politics. negotiators for a bipartisan senate bill -- >> is that really an australian rules football? >> yeah. i love that. the refs step up when they kick it through the uprights and they do that -- yeah. those little -- pull them out of their holsters and six shooters. >> that's what i'm going to be following. >> i'm so glad i know that. negotiators for a bipartisan

senate bill -- if they get a deal, they all do that, but no one's been doing that for a long time. the republicans at least, so negotiators looking for this bipartisan bill to address the southern border and foreign aid. they say talks are still on after minority leader mitch mcconnell appeared to throw cold water on the deal. the kentucky republican reportedly told colleagues in a closed door meeting on wednesday, they may not want to undermine donald trump on the issue since he wants to run on it. last night trump encouraged lawmakers to do nothing on the border. >> to keep the border open. trump encouraged them to let fentanyl continue to flood in and let illegal immigrants continue to stream across the border. that's what donald trump said, and republicans are so weak they're going to do it. they're going to side with fentanyl and illegal immigrants instead of a bipartisan, tough border security bill.

>> so then he went on social media and wrote incorrectly, we are better off not making a deal even if that pushes our country temporarily -- to temporarily close up for a while, but a handful of republican senators are pushing back on letting trump sink the deal. take a listen. >> i think the border is a very important issue for donald trump, and the fact that he would communicate to republican senators and congresspeople that he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame biden for it is -- is really appalling. the american people are suffering as a result of what's happening at the border, and someone running for president ought to try and get the, you know, the problem solved as opposed to saying, hey. save that problem. don't solve it. let me take credit for solving it later. >> i just reject the idea that we should reserve a crisis for a better time to solve it, you know? people -- what's interesting to

me is there are a lot of angry people out there, and that's why the border crisis is the number one issue for voters. i don't see how we have a better story to tell when we miss the one opportunity you have to fix it and we say, you know, we would love to have fixed, but it was election season so i thought i would wait. >> from my point of view, we need relief today, and what we're trying to do will help him if he gets to be president. i will say to president trump if we can put this package together the way i hope it falls into place, that you'll have more tools to secure america than you've ever had, and it's not about one president. it's about a system. >> well, i register my opinion to my colleagues. i've registered it to our leadership that i don't believe we should take this off the table, certainly not to clear the way for a clean campaign debate spn let's get something consequential done for the

american people. that's how i instill trust in government in your elected representatives, rather than paying to short-term considerations. >> i don't know how a bill becomes law. go back to schoolhouse rock. if we don't take the opportunity now, there will be zero democrat votes for exactly the same policy beginning next year. it is immoral for me to think you looked the other way because you think this is the lynch pin for president trump to win. i do not want to be a part of history that fails -- that fails democracy and that's a failure if we don't find a way to fund ukraine and israel. >> good for thom tillis. it's immoral, and he's right. it's a failure for republicans, and it's immoral he says for republicans to fail ukraine in their fight for freedom and to fail israel in their fight to defend themselves against terrorists and of course, the united states' right to secure its border.

we finally have the deal. i mean, going to capitol hill and asking for the last couple of years, why can't we get a deal done? republicans and democrats want this. well, republicans want -- you know, they were talking past each other. now they're talking to each other, and james langford, one of the most conservative republicans on capitol hill from oklahoma says, this is the best bill we can get. john thune, one of the most conservative republicans on capitol hill says, this is the best border security bill we can get. it's the strongest in a generation. they all agree with that, and i agree with thom tillis. this is pathetic, but gene robinson, you now have donald trump who's admitted in the past two weeks that his goals are number one, and he said this to lou dobbs. number one, he wants the economy to crash. he knows it's going well. he wants joe biden -- he said this. he wants joe biden to be herbert hoover, managing a depression

which means he wants the stock market to crash. he wants people's retirement funds to burn up. he wants millions of people to lose jobs. that's what he said. i want a depression. i want biden to be herbert hoover. >> yeah. >> the second thing, "wall street journal" talking about it right now. they're passing. a chance to secure the border. people as mitt romney said are suffering right now. people and immigrants streaming across the border. democrats and republicans in the senate know how to stop it. >> yeah. yeah. they know how to stop it. >> republicans and donald trump won't do it. it is immoral. is it not? >> it is immoral. it is insane, and it shows what has happened to the republican party. it really does. i mean, this is not a serious political party anymore.

it is a cult. it is a cult of personality around dear leader donald trump, full stop. house republicans are already against this deal that they have -- they have been praying for for years and years and years, and good on those senate republicans who we just showed who came out and said, look. this is nuts. we have to pass this. we'll never get a deal like this. let's see how they actually vote. let's see how lindsey graham actually votes when it comes down to it. let's see if mitch mcconnell can actually, you know, get this across the finish line. we will see. i just -- i kind of have my doubts right now, given what mitch mcconnell said on wednesday about there not being a path forward, and it is such an illustration of why we have to destroy the republican party in november in order to save it really. i mean, because look at what has

happened to this party. they're offered a deal that they will never get again, a deal that provides tough border security without the perpetual democratic demand that some of the democrats really want as a path to citizenship for the undocumented migrants who are already in the doesn't for the dreamers. there's nothing about that that we know of in this package. they will never get this again, and yet they are about to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory in a way that is just deeply unserious and deeply disturbing and bad for the country. >> self-destructive. >> as long as donald trump is the cult leader of the republican party, this is where we're going to be. >> katty, to gene's point, it

strikes you that this is for all the t-shirts and hats and chants, the opposite of america first. they have a moment and the chance here to put america first, to do something about the border, and they're putting donald trump first in this case, but as some of those senators we just heard made very clear, this actually politically shouldn't be that hard. i understand there are moments they don't want to cross donald trump on dicey issues because they think their voters will turn on them. their voters want border security. so thom tillis can cross donald trump here and vote for border security and not pay a political price for it. it doesn't even make sense to a lot of people watching this politically on the policy. it doesn't make sense because this is what they have been asking for for generations, but even politically, this should be an easy one. you can say, this time i disagree with donald trump. i think he was a great president, but we're going to fix the border right now and we've got a chance to do it. very strange, but i guess not surprising anymore. >> except that's not what crump wants them to do because he wants them to continue talking

about immigration. he can see the numbers too. consumer confidence is improving and if interest rates come down and the economy starts to do better, and gas prices are down at about $3 a gallon, then some of the issues might be off the table. donald trump needs another issue on the table. he needs another issue in order to whip up his base into a fury against joe biden, and this is solved by this deal, so then the immigration crisis is solved and it goes away. you can't blame them for having 15% approval of congress when it's this cynical and ineffective. i remind something of bob gtes said, the three biggest problems are russia, china, and its own politics. this is a clear case of america getting in its way of doing something that will help the country. this is democrats wanting border security and republicans perhaps

not so much wanting border security at least for the course of this political campaign. >> even for donald trump, this is shamelessly cynical. just a naked appeal to keep an issue alive politically rather than doing something for the country. we should note though mitch mcconnell's comments caused such a stir where it seemed he was giving in on the deal. his team pushed back against it. mcconnell held another meeting with some of his republican colleagues and make it clear he wants this. they're saying he was simply acknowledging that trump was playing a role. he was simply being honest about the quandary he and his party were in, but this is not mcconnell himself shifting positions. which i think came as a relief to some republicans as they started to learn this late last night that the senate minority leader though power diminished in recent months, still does want to push this forward. now the question is whether he can get enough votes. we know tillis, romney, others have said they want this to happen and they're putting a responsibility to country over party, but we know the house

already stands in opposition, at least a large portion of it does. the republicans, will there be enough senators who also make that decision to defy mcconnell? favor of trump? coming up, it's not just border security that hangs in the balance, but also ukraine's very existence as a country. david ignatius weighs in on that part of the story next on "morning joe." on that part of the story next on "morning joe." nothing comes close to this place in the morning. i'm so glad i can still come here. you see, i was diagnosed with obstructive hcm. and there were some days i was so short of breath. i thought i'd have to settle for never stepping foot on this trail again. i became great at making excuses. but i have people who count on me so i talked to my cardiologist. i said there must be more we can do for my symptoms.

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let's bring in right now columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius. i'll read to you from the lead editorial of "the wall street journal." it's gop border reckoning, and this is what the editors write. then there's ukraine. the u.s. friend in europe now running out of ammunition to

fight vladimir putin. the political alternatives are worse to what mr. trump is going to do. they fear a few voices these days are willing to stand up and say so because they fear mr. trump will trash them for it. a border-ukraine deal offers a vote, and a victory to tout at home. the house -- do republicans want to sponsor the 2024 equivalent of saigon 1975? what a line. do republicans want to sponsor the 2024 equivalent of saigon 1975? mr. trump may think a ukraine defeat will help him, but don't be so sure. as president, he would inherit and embolden mr. putin with nato allies in panic and adversaries around the world who think the u.s. is really in retreat. david ignatius, your thoughts? >> so joe, first i do hear european leaders, ambassadors

here in washington just saying this their governments are beginning to hedge against the possibility that donald trump could be re-elected president. it's a very difficult and painful problem for them to think about. one thing i think people are beginning to focus on is how do you sustain ukraine against the russian invasion if the united states begins to pull back from the coalition of support in it's crucial for europe that vladimir putin not win this battle. europe's future over the next several decades will be different, entirely different if putin rolls onto victory and i think would mount another invasion toward kyiv to try to take the whole country. so that's the first thing. i hear people talking more and more about how ukraine can defend what it has, the idea that ukraine is going to be able to expel the russians entirely from its borh more

difficult now than it did, but it can hold the territory that it has. more decisively, it can build the kind of defenses that russia built in the south. it can develop its own domestic arms industry. it has enough ammunition to keep firing. it can develop the anti-aircraft weapons to keep russian drones and missiles from destroying its cities. so i think there's that kind of hedging and protection discussion that's beginning. if this effort to provide continuing u.s. aid to ukraine fails, joe, i think of the people who fought to build up american credibility in the world. i think of my dad's generation that fought in world war ii, the sacrifices they made. i think of the decades of struggle in the cold war to build the reliability of america's name and commitment to its allies. that was hard work year by year and it's shocking to me, just shameful that people are on the verge of throwing that away by

walking away from a country -- >> right. >> -- that has defended itself courageously, that has never asked for a single american soldier to do its fighting. it's just asking for help, and when you think of all that would be lost in terms of america's reputation if we don't stand by this ally, it's just -- it's shocking. it's something that will last in terms of of our national reputation for much longer than people think. >> well, and it really will, and when you talk about freedom in europe, you go over, you know, all the years since the war and yet we can talk about what the presidents have done, but as david said, so many people have fought for this, and given their entire lives to a europe that is free of russian tyranny, and, you know, you go back to dean atchison. go back to general marshall. you can move forward to, you

know, cold warriors like your father, colin powell, madeline albright, secretary gates, again, people who have lived their entire lives for a free europe, a free west. an expanded nato that can protect countries like ukraine from russian aggression. and house republicans agree with what i'm saying. house democrats agree with what i'm saying. the white house agrees with what i'm saying, but donald trump and mike johnson -- mike johnson who's voted pro-putin on every single ukraine bill voted to kill funding to defend against a russian invasion, is now killing this bill. "the wall street journal" editorial page has it right. you are looking right there, right there, not chairman mccaul because he's -- he's fought like

hell for ukraine, but you're looking right there at a speaker who is going to be responsible for a saigon-like collapse of ukraine. if other party members don't save him from himself. >> this is the biggest accomplishment of the decade for our partners and allies in europe, for peace in europe and to just stop now? we knew it would get hard. everyone talked about, especially in the beginning months of this war, that it was not going to be easy, quick. it was going to take a long time. >> who would have guessed it would have come from the party of reagan? and david, we also have in the middle east, we have bill burns, the president's closer going in trying to make a deal between israel and hamas. >> for hostages. >> or actually qatar when it comes to hostages. what's going on there? >> so joe, i'm glad you used the

term president biden's closer to describe bill burns, the man who titled his own memoir "the back channel" because he is the master of the back channel. he has been dispatched by president biden to negotiate with egypt and qatar which is the two emissaries on behalf of hamas, and with israel to try to see if there can be a new deal to free in stages, the 136 remaining hostages held by hamas in gaza. it's a lot of people. they've got the details of how this would work pretty much preset. there would be an initial release of ten women and children who were supposed to go out in the last deal that fell apart at the beginning of december. then another 40, elderly, sick, ailing people who will be released for humanitarian reasons along with women -- who

were some of them women soldiers, and then a final group that is large. maybe 80-plus people that would include men and also the bodies of those who died even on october 7th or in captivity. it's impossible to know how large that number is. this would be accompanied by a ceasefire of at least a month, maybe longer in which there could be a real effort to alleviate the terrible suffering. i just want to underline that. i quoted somebody this week calling it unspeakable suffering of the palestinian civilians in gaza who are facing now the verge of famine. there isn't enough food. they're facing pandemic disease as it spreads through these terribly crowded, dirty camps. there would be an opportunity during the ceasefire to finally get real humanitarian relief in

for people, and there would be an opportunity to address the issue that anguishes israelis i think in their hearts more than anything which is the fate of these hostages, the people who were stolen away from them on october 7th. this is an opportunity for deus kalation. the u.s. has been working very hard. say what you like about joe biden and his team, but on this issue, trying to work to de-escalate this war, they've done an extraordinarily good job, and i hope bill burns in the next day or two can succeed because that would mark, i think, an inflection point in this war after three months of let's be honest, of nightmare. coming up, brand-new reporting from china which is grand zero for many of the chemicals that fuel america's drug epidemic. we discuss what beijing is doing to extend the opioid crisis to america. that's next on "morning joe." ioo america.

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. national security advisor jake sullivan is currently in thailand where he's set to meet today or tomorrow with china's foreign minister. the two will discuss the recent attacks by houthi rebels on shipping operations in the red sea, according to u.s. officials. biden administration officials say the united states has asked china to convey messages to iran throughout the conflict aimed at avoiding escalation. another area of cooperation between china and the u.s. is action on the fentanyl crisis. senior officials in china have agreed to create a joint task force aimed at limiting the flow of chemicals from chinese companies that are used to make synthetic fentanyl.

janis mackey frayer spoke to officials about the task force and joins us now from beijing with more. what can you tell us? >> reporter: mika, the u.s. has long criticized chinese authorities for not doing enough to crack down on chemical supply chains here, the flow of certain chemical precursors that are used in everyday things in industry and agriculture, but also used to produce the elicit fentanyl that's killing more americans than any time in history. china's position has long been this is a demand problem and that global supply chains are too complex to control. this meeting set to happen here in beijing next week marks a significant step. this is the first direct collaboration at such a high level on this issue in years. u.s. officials from homeland security to dea are traveling to

china for the launch of what chinese officials describe as a joint task force. i sat down with the deputy director general of the narcotics control bureau for china's ministry of public security. i asked him what we can expect from china and whether they will go after chinese companies and individuals that have already been indicted by the u.s. [ speaking in a global language ] >> is there no willingness then to go after these companies that have been indicted by the u.s.? [ speaking in a global language ]

>> there haven't been real meaningful progress since 2020 when the u.s. sanctions, the institute for forensic science and the national nor narcotics lab were removed from that entity list in october right after president biden met with xi jinping in san francisco. it was a direct trade to get a revival of the cooperation we are going to see here next week. some republicans have criticized

it as a weak move, but it's widely seen as painfully necessary. when a bipartisan trip came here last october, six senators sat with xi jinping for 80 minutes and appealed to him directly, telling him stories of how the fentanyl crisis have ravaged their constituents. they talked to him about the reputational benefits that could come to china by helping the united states. at this point, u.s. officials are resisting commenting on the meeting or their expectations. there's reason to be skeptical given that talks in the past have been easily derailed by politics and political tensions between the u.s. and china. coming up, our next guest is running for u.s. senate in arizona. ruben gallego is standing by to talk about the southern border straight ahead on "morning joe." r straight ahead on "morning joe."

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i don't know how aill becomes law. go back to schoolhouse rock. if we don't take the opportunity now, there will be zero democrat votes for the exact same policy next year. this is immemorial for me to think you looked the other way. i dot want to be a part of history that fails democracy. that's a failure if we don't find a way to fund ukraine and israel. >> republican senator tom tillis of north carolina, one of the gop lawmakers who went on record in favor of passing a border deal despite donald trump's demands not to. welcome to the fourth hour of

"morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. we'll get to those tensions on capitol hill in just a moment. first, closing arguments are set to get under way this morning in e. jean carroll's civil defamation case, the second against donald trump. >> reporter: for former president trump on tap today, closing arguments and possibly a verdict as the jury weighs how much money in damages he must pay writer e. jean carroll for defaming her. mr. trump speaking out in a video posted overnight. >> i don't even know who this woman is. this is another scam. >> reporter: mr. trump, who last may was found liable for sexually abusing carroll, stood by that accusation in the courtroom thursday, saying he wanted to defend myself, my family and frankly the presidency. the judge quickly striking that statement. as he tries to nail down his party's nomination, mr. trump is raging about nikki haley's

refusal to exit the race and has been lobbing personal attacks at haley. >> wow, what a great victory. then somebody ran up to the stage all dressed up nicely. >> reporter: the former president is threatening to blacklist haley donors, warning they will be permanently barred from the maga camp. haley's campaign now selling t-shirts that read "barred permanently" and quickly raising more than a million dollars in less than 24 hours. trump is not alone in the pressure campaign to force haley out. the republican national committee was eyeing a move to declare the former president the party's presumptive nominee. after mr. trump rejected the idea, the rnc backed off. >> it's a great day in south

carolina. >> reporter: haley not backing down, but ramping up jabs at her former boss. >> he didn't talk about the american people once. he talked about revenge. >> let's bring in chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton, editor at large for newsweek, tom rogers. from the white house's perspective, is nikki haley is a formidable opponent in the general? i know that the primary schedule is really stacked against her. at the same time, she is the only one left if something happens with trump. >> yeah. if you were to put the white house officials on truth serum, they would rather not face nikki

haley than trump. nikki haley would bring a generational argument. she wouldn't bring the baggage of 91 felony counts to the table. they're not really focused on that. they have assumed all along it would be trump. they, in fact, are eager to begin the general election. they talked about building new infrastructure, citing projects that are beginning to turn dirt and so forth while former president trump is out there talking about retribution and how he's going to punish people and things like that. that's a contrast they welcome. they think in the end people who have been disappointed with president biden will return once they focus on the consequences of a donald trump second term. >> katty kay, i think nikki haley is in a really unique position to expose trump perhaps

to a part of the electorate that maybe hasn't been able to see some of his downsides until now through her. >> yeah. one of the mysteries of haley's campaign is she only decided to take on trump full on right at the end around new hampshire. she made a calculation he didn't want to lose those maga voters. it's interesting what the impact of that has been on donald trump. as soon as she started attacking him and refused to bow out after new hampshire, his worst instincts took over. he belittled her dress and called her a bird brain. rude. i think all the these things will not help trump with suburban women voters who don't like these attacks that are personal and mean and pejorative towards women. i don't think nikki haley is going to stay in the race as a

public service to the biden campaign, but it is true the longer she stays in the race the more damage it does to him, which is why the white house is quite happy for nikki haley to drag this out as long as possible. >> no question. i believe it's helpful to hear a republican voice make these attacks on donald trump, reaching audiences that maybe wouldn't hear joe biden say such a thing, a fox news viewer, for instance. there's no question that haley is getting under his skin. he threw a temper tantrum. there's been this theme in the media this year that this year's trump campaign is a more professional more disciplined operation. maybe that's true behind the scenes. but this is trump. discipline does not apply. >> the team may be more

professional and disciplined, but the candidate isn't. it doesn't matter how much the team may be if they can't get the candidate to operate that way. i think nikki haley has benefitted from the fact that when the other opponents in the primary of vivek ramaswamy and tim scott and all were genuflecting in front of him, she stood up to him. he started attacking her in many misogynist ways. that increases her stature with voters. i don't think she'll be successful in getting the nomination, but i think she walks out of this with her dignity, unlike other opponents who have lost a lot of their dignity. i think it inadvertently helps joe biden. she's not only a republican saying these things, she's a republican that was his u.n. ambassador, so she was part of the trump administration raising

these things. if she was all of that, then why, mr. trump, did you send her to the united nations? >> donald trump talked about what a great ambassador nikki haley was, what a great public servant nikki haley was. why does he say that about everybody that works for him and later turns on all of them? because understand after working for him that he's dangerous for america. whether you're talking about generals who were the longest running chiefs of staff in his white house or attorneys general who were the most loyal, at the end of the day they all said the same thing, he was dangerous for american democracy. voters are going to be voting on american democracy. they're also going to be voting on choice, on a 50-year right that's been taken away. but they will vote on the economy as well. as one of the founders of cnbc,

economic numbers are just looking great for joe biden right now. >> absolutely right, joe. just today the core inflation number that the fed most looks at came out and it's the lowest rate of growth that it's been in the last three years. the hope is that sticky inflation issues and higher prices, which has been part of the economy which seems to have created the negative perceptions for biden between now and election day, if that kind of price measure holds, maybe those perceptions can really turn around. >> larry kudlow agrees, take a look at this clip on fox business. >> look, it was a good quarter. don't get me wrong, 3.3% beat estimates. the last quarter was a good quarter, 4.9%.

absolutely. he gets his due. >> you've got the dow making record after record after record. i mean, larry, what do you say to folks who say, wait a second, this isn't as bad as you have been saying it is? >> i would say probably i would agree. how's that? >> whoa. that's a headline. >> my gosh. what are you going to do? you look at the numbers, stock market all-time high, consumer confidence going up, inflation going down, job numbers up. so many things going in the right direction here. i know you remember, like i do, what happened in to george h.w. bush. if they had broken out of the recession a little bit earlier, then 41 had a great chance of getting reelected. here it looks like joe biden's

timing may be right. we went through tough economic times post covid, but things are looking pretty good right now. how is the white house feeling? >> any president heading into an election year would kill for these numbers. the number is higher than any year of the trump presidency, higher than any year except for one of the obama presidency. this was a really significant sign of growth. it may not continue. we may not be in the same place in october that we are now. but if we are, the biden white house does think there will be some change in the public perception. they're already looking at consumer confidence numbers up 29% in the last two months that suggest the public is beginning to see in their own lives perhaps the impact of these economic gains. you know, the point that tom made about prices is kind of the problem. it may not be going up, but they're not coming down, so a

lot of americans are still feeling the pinch of the inflation we saw a year ago, even though inflation has come down to a much more normal level. we'll see how that plays out. it's also a different electorate and moment in politics. maybe, it's the economy stupid, isn't the main driver of politics. i'd certainly rather be in biden's position when it comes to the economy. >> the term bidenomics may never be deemed a total success, but the policies are working. americans are starting to feel happier about the state of the economy. we're going to see a lot of what we saw yesterday from president biden talking about infrastructure, talking about real world things he has done to make people's lives easier. with the uaw endorsement this

week, the president is feeling good about the key midwest states. your new piece talks about the electoral college and the house of representatives, the republican-led house of representatives, the outsized and devious, you believe, role they could play from the upcoming election. tell us about it. >> democracy is going to be on the ballot, as joe biden keeps saying. it's not just about what happened on january 6th in the last cycle. it's really about what a house election denying body could do this time. some major differences this time. one, we have a republican speaker. two, the firewall with the entire election denying process last time were the state and federal courts. but when the house manipulates its own rules to potentially overturn an election, that's not

reviewable by the courts. the house is sovereign over its own rules. a very important piece written by two colleagues of mine in the washington spectator, which my column today really highlights the most dangerous scenario they point out in dancing in the dark, how to avoid a constitutional coup in 2024. they really go through the details of how the house could hijack this election. it's a real threat. we'd be naive to ignore it. i remember being on this show in june of 2020 with former senator tim worth and later with former house majority leader dick gephardt six months before the last presidential election, laying out what we thought donald trump could do to try to overturn the election. most people thought it was fantastical. well, most of what we said turned out to be the case.

we have to be really concerned. >> 100%. tom rogers, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> shares tumbled yesterday closing down 12% for tesla after more than doubling in 2023. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. i was so surprised by the numbers yesterday, because you had a lot of tech stocks doing very well. yesterday was a really good day for wall street, but a terrible day for tesla. what jumped out at me was that statement that said, come on, guys, we need some adults running the place. what in the world happened? >> well, what i think happened,

actually -- and to be honest it's a much broader issue than tesla itself. we are seeing the beginning of what seemed like a growth market for evs stall out. we started to see this even earlier than this. we saw a lot of other american carmakers who had gone into the ev market say they couldn't sell the cars that they were making and the pledges they had made around goals of how many evs they planned to make, they weren't going to hit them. there was a view that tesla was going to be immune from all of this, that tesla was in its own category. but it is clear there is a broader issue here from the american public about evs and just how quickly we're going to see true uptake about these electric vehicles en masse. i think there's still a lot of what they call range anxiety. people are worried if i buy an ev, there's not going to be a place to charge it quick enough.

i think that's going to be a larger and larger issue as the investment in this space has taken place. if people don't want to buy them, that's a problem. >> let's talk about the range concerns. we got headlines that a lot of evs weren't working in cold weather. there are a lot of things that are really exasperating to people who may want an ev, but they also want to know they can get in their car and they can go and there's going to be charging stations and everything else. you also have, of course, competition from china in this area that's particularly fierce. >> particularly fierce. in fact, one of the things elon musk said on his call with investors, which was surprising given, in fact, that he's got a big business in china, he said america's got to keep the tariffs on vehicles coming into the country from china, because

the truth is he believes that the vehicles being produced in china are better than the cars being produced in the u.s. with the exception, he said, of tesla. when you think about some of the products and just feature sets in some of these chinese evs, the electronicsnd computer systems are next level. it raises some real questions. they're also obviously being produced at cheaper prices in china. we have tariffs in place that are going to prevent them from probably becoming a bigger part of the market here. nonetheless, you can see that distinction taking place. >> before we let you go, we've talked a lot about outside forces. that's not what was happening on the call yesterday. on the call it was a question about elon musk's leadership, the board's leadership, the need for, quote, grown ups.

so yes, we have a problem with the environment around evs, but yesterday the collapse was based around the fact that, you know, a lot of shareholders just don't trust elon musk and the people he has around him. >> i don't know if that's the case. the truth is i think it was about the guidance, the truly weak guidance they offered. that, i think, scared people. there's no question that people question the management of how tesla is set up. i think there's a bigger question to the extent it's never been a car company. it's been an ai company, a tech company. he said he wants more control of tesla. he wants the board to give him more control, because he believes if they're going to invest more in ai, he wants to be able to control it. he's saying he's going to walk or take the ai investments he would otherwise want to make inside tesla, he would make

outside of tesla. that's also part of the calculus here in terms of what's happening to the stock. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. coming up, gop infighting over the border deal intensifies as senate republicans remain split over whether to sink the bill in an effort to boost donald trump. we'll speak with democratic congressman ruben gallego. also ahead, ava duvernay will be our guest to discuss her new movie "origins." new movie "origins. skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi,

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i think the border is a very important issue for donald trump. the fact that he would communicate to republican senators and congress people that he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he

wants to blame biden for it is really appalling. the american people are suffering as a result of what's happening at the border, and someone running for president ought to try and get the problem solved as opposed to saying, hey, save that problem, don't solve it, let me take credit for solving it later. >> from my point of view, we need relief today. what we're trying to do will help him if he gets to be president. i will say to president trump, if we can put this package together the way i hope it falls into place, you'll have more tools to secure america than you've ever had. it's not about one person. it's about a system. >> senators mitt romney and lindsey graham among the handful of republicans critical of former president trump for trying to kill a bipartisan immigration bill for his own political gain. >> what he said is, and let's be

very clear about this, these republicans said donald trump wants to keep the border open. he wants to keep it open for more fentanyl to flood across and poison and kill americans. he wants to keep the border open for more illegal immigrants coming in and not doing it through an orderly process. he's getting in the way of what conservatives have called, republicans hav called the best border security bill in history. >> one they won't be able to get any other day. >> this is the same guy who also says along with let's keep the border open, he's saying let's let the economy get wrecked. he's rooting against americans. he told lou dobbs he wants the economy to go into a depression. he wants joe biden to be herbert hoover, not him. >> joining us now, democratic congressman ruben gallego of

arizona, a member of the house armed services committee, a marine corps combat veteran and a candidate for u.s. senate. first, i'd like you reaction to especially the house republicans who are letting donald trump walk all over them for his political gain. >> you're essentially advocating your duty. there is a problem at the border. we need to come together for a solution that brings more border security. voters are demanding it. this surge is unlike anything i've seen in arizona. i voted for $92 billion of border security in the past and still it is not helping. the fact this is being used as a political tool by republican senators and other politicians -- i'm running against kari lake who claims to be the biggest supporter in the world. does she agree with trump that we should not fix the border so it helps him and her politically?

this is dangerous territory we are in. we need to treat this as a serious situation, not as a political opportunity. it's shameful that republicans are doing that just to get donald trump back into office. >> the political side of the proposed border control situation that trump is trying to manipulate, the politics of that is you also have governor abbott sending thousands of migrants into mostly democratic cities. you have the politics of it where this bill or this solution many progressives don't like, but they're willing to do something for the greater good. talk about that. it's not like they're giving the woke crowd or the progressives that any of us considered progressive would want. this is something that's going to take some political maturity on all sides and they don't even

want to give that. >> it's not ideal. we as democrats don't control all branches of the government right now. if we had power within the house of representatives, the senate and the white house, i think we'd come up with a quick solution that would actually answer the problems at the border. right now it's not there. we do have to be the mature ones in the room, like we always are, and come up with a solution. the long-term solution that has to come out of this is going to be a combination of border security and immigration reform. until then, we have to do the best we can to, number one, keep our asylum system intact. it is being abused. if you go down to the border and talk to border patrol and nonprofits, you see it being abused by people who are just trying to get work permits.

>> let's talk about the other half of this deal. the idea of border security was done in exchange for foreign aid to israel and namely ukraine. you've got foreign policy credentials. tell us what you see particularly in europe where we're hearing from kyiv they're simply running out of ammunition and they're deeply worried what will happen if the u.s. doesn't come through and come through soon. >> personally as a marine and a combat veteran seeing these young men so dedicated to freedom, to the idea they want to be ukrainian and they're willing to sacrifice their lives for it. for the united states and politicians like donald trump and kari lake, who are going to essentially throw away their chance at freedom to really go against the nature of the united states of supporting countries that are free, capitalistic and

western leaning for what? to satisfy donald trump's lust to make putin happy? it's embarrassing. ronald reagan would be so embarrassed of what has become of the republican party, the fact that we are letting essentially a russian operation of misinformation destroy our standing in the world and letting a democracy who's willing to fight -- not asking for one american troop at all, and willing to fight for their sovereignty and all they're asking for us is for a small portion of our military budget, it's a sad statement on how the world is looking at us right now, that's being led by the foreign policy of marjorie taylor greene, kari lake and

donald trump. >> democratic congressman ruben gallego of arizona, thank you very much. he, of course, is a candidate for u.s. senate. >> peter, what's your latest reporting on this bill? i know mitch mcconnell sort of back and forth about whether it's dead, whether he's still for it, whether it's got a pathway forward. what's your latest reporting this morning? >> i haven't been on the hill this morning, but it does look like there's still an effort by some of these republican senators to make this happen. but that only gets us half there. even if you got through the senate, the house is still on the republican side very problematic in terms of any kind of traction for this. they don't want to approve it. the truth is there are some on the progressive left who are not happy about that. there's not a lot in there from the point of view of the

progressive left. there was already going to be a problem if you brought this on the floor. now because trump is against it, that may help biden rally his own people if they ever get to the point of a vote. at the moment it looks grim. biden will tell you he has seen this before. his chances of getting important legislation through have been discounted and somehow he's managed to make it happen. but he's not very active in this right now and i'm not sure even if he did get active it would help. we'll be right back with who the biden white house is sending overseas to try and close the deal for more hostages to be released by hamas. here's a look at some of the stories making headlines across the country. the "tampa bay times" is highlighting florida's move to

drop sociology classes as a core course, arguing that it can radicalize students. in tennessee, the chattanooga times free press is covering a proposed bill that would make it a felony for adults to help minors seek abortions. the bill would also allow the parents or maternal grandparents of an aborted fetus to sue for damages. the providence journal is taking a look at a rhode island town's solution to minimizing car crashes with wildlife. officials in bristol opened four wooded properties for bow hunting late last year and are encouraging hunters to help thin the herd. finally, the "los angeles times" is reporting on levels of groundwater around the world. a new study found pumping water for farmland in part of the u.s.

and other countries has jeopardized critical resources for many regions that face a greater risk of intense drought from climate change. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back

you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya...

we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are. not just any whiteboard... ...katie porter's whiteboard is one way she's: [news anchor] ...often seen grilling top executives of banks, big pharma, even top administration officials. katie porter. never taken corporate pac money - never will. leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks” that fund politicians' pet projects. katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message.

welcome back. to the latest developments out of the middle east where tensions continue to rise between the u.s. and yemen houthi rebels. central command says early this morning militants fired an anti-ship ballistic missile toward an american navy vessel. the u.s.s. carney successfully shot down the missile. no injuries or damage were reported.

cia director william burns is expected to travel to europe to help broker a new hostage relief deal between israel and hamas. a diplomat tells nbc news burns will meet with the head of israel's intelligence agency as well as the leader of qatar. it's not known where exactly this meeting is taking place. israel and hamas have been inching closer to a deal to release all the remaining hostages in gaza. it's believed more than 130 people are being held captive and at least 25 of them have died. israel's latest proposal includes a 60-day ceasefire which would be the longest since the fighting began in exchange for relief of the hostages starting with women and children. however, hamas has been demanding an end to the war, a move prime minister benjamin netanyahu is against. >> this seems actually like a deal that both sides could use.

hamas needs the break from the bombardment from the attacks, and israel needs a break as well. >> the hostages need to come home. >> of course, they desperately need to come home. >> the families of the hostages want them home. the people of gaza need a break, because they are on the brink of extraordinary suffering. we're hearing stories of people eating animal food because that is all that is left in gaza at the moment. this trio of chiefs, the american, the israeli and the egyptian spy chiefs last met in november together just before that ceasefire was concluded with the qatari prime minister. if this trio is meeting again, does that mean we are nearly at a new ceasefire agreement? the issue is the timing of this. the israelis saying they will not accept a permanent ceasefire

or offer that, and hamas is asking for that at the moment. it looks like it's going to be 60 days with this phased relief of the hostages. it's a big diplomatic weekend. you've got jake sullivan meeting chinese officials to talk about the houthis and those missile attacks on ships coming into the red sea. a lot moving this weekend, but there are some thoughts that if they wouldn't be meeting now that joe biden would not be sending bill burns to this meeting somewhere there europe if he didn't think they were close to an agreement. >> give us your insight. obviously the biden administration has been concerned about the humanitarian crisis in gaza from the beginning. they've kept a lot of those concerns quiet, not being so quiet right now. we're careening now into a place where there's massive

humanitarian suffering in gaza and it's going to get exponentially worse quickly if they don't have a ceasefire and bring the humanitarian aid in that the gazans desperately need. >> no question. the u.s. just a short time ago stopped short of calling for a full ceasefire there, but was very firm in israel to try to limit the humanitarian suffering in gaza as part of their tactics. just came down from the hague a short time ago. president biden has expressed frustration about prime minister netanyahu, believing there is a limit to how long this war can go, that israel needs to start winding down the major combat operations. the sticking point is there is a belief in the administration that israel is simply not going to go for a full ceasefire. it's going to be up to hamas whether they can live with an agreement of only a month or two to release those hostages. but those hostages, of course, act as a bit of a safety net for

the hamas leadership. that is going to be the flashpoint here in the weeks ahead. certainly the cia director heading to europe for these talks is hopeful. he is the president's closer. he has the full faith of president biden behind him. it's a key couple of days on the horizon. >> among the remaining hostages is a 23-year-old abducted by hamas from the music festival. it's believed she and the other hostages are being held in horrific conditions with little food, fresh air or sunlight. he sister spoke act the mounting concern she has for romy's physical and mental well-being. take a look. >> she's my little sister. she's 23 years old. she has all of her life in front of her, but the mental breakdown

they are experiencing, it's not something necessarily they could recover from. they told the ones released with the physical injury, they can deal. but with the mental, it's not that easy. it's getting harder. at first i was trying to be so strong and i was. but every day is getting harder to hold it and to feel like nobody cares. >> is that how you feel? >> yeah. lately i see the hatred for us, like we deserve it, like my sister deserves it. >> incredible interview.

you recently did that interview in israel, marking the 100 days of captivity for the remaining hostages still being held by hamas. tell us more about that conversation. is there any information on romy and her current condition, any pictures released, any knowledge if she's even still alive? >> yeah. it's now been 111 days since she's been held captive. she was taken from the nova music festival where she sustained a horrible injury from a gunshot to her arm. some of the hostages that have returned over 50 days ago said they saw romy, that she was alive but she was in desperate need of medical attention, that her hands had changed color, she wasn't able to move her fingers anymore. she could now be over three

months pregnant with the captors sexual assault. none of these families want war. they just want their families back. >> you also visited sheba hospital where you met with two doctors who have worked closely with the victims of the october 7th attack and the hostages that have returned. what have we learned from the returning hostages to give us a sense of what's going on in there? >> yeah. they just talked about the devastation, how hard it's been to treat these hostages that have come home, the reunification with their family members, notifying them of ones who have passed away since they've been gone. there's a profound mental health crisis in the entire country.

one doctor said i've never turned a patient away. our job as doctors is to treat people and all i want is the same care to people that are in gaza. she said this is the same message she gave president biden when he visited. a lot of these hostages have very real life-threatening issues and they just want them to receive medical care. she talked about what it was like to be on call on october 7th, seeing childrens burned in their mother's arms, who had to hide under dead bodies. there's a profound heartbreak they feel that the international community could say, hey, raping a woman and leaving a knife inside of her when she entered the hospital was wrong. >> so many questions about the response time still linger.

thank you so much. up next, award winning director ava duvernay joins us to talk about her new film "origin" a fictionalized drama that exams racism in america through a unique and personal lens. that's just ahead on "morning joe." that's just ahead on "morning joe. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley.

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enchts we're. we're talking about deliberate extermination over many years. >> wasn't slavery for like hundreds of years? >> slavery lasted 246 years. that's 13 generations of people plus another 100 years of jim crow segregation violence and murder. >> it is, of course, horrific. i am not down playing any of it.

>> there were so many millions of african americans who were murdered from the middle passage until the end of legal segregation that it goes beyond the realm of an official number. there is no number. >> i didn't know that. >> no, stunning. >> it is, and i understand your trying to make sense of american racism. it is no, but your thesis linking cast in germany with the united states is flawed. >> that was a clip from the new film from award winning director ava duvernay, and it's entitled origin. it has been getting rave reviews. rolling stones writes it may be

the most important bio pick of a book ever made. and "the washington post" called it one of the most powerful films on screen this season. the movie is based on the book caste, the origins of our discontent but written by pulitzer prize winning journalist isabel wilkerson. it follows wilkerson's journey to discover the roots of racism and social inequality in america and around the world. and joining us now, the film's director, writer and director, academy award nominated filmmaker, ava duvernay, and it's great to have you on the show. you've read the book three times. what made you drawn to bringing it to life? >> you know, i think we're all experiencing a fatigue. i think i hear a lot of apathy from people, confusion as to how to organize our thoughts about all that's going on in the world, and that book for me was very anchoring. it really captivated my imagination with this new

language, the word caste, pulled together history, pulled together the future, put it in the present day, and became something that i wanted to make sure more people were interrogating. >> so obviously there has been so much debate, especially since 2020 over race. we now are having a battle over history for those that don't want to face our past. i am curious, though, with everything that has been written about the struggles, the race, race battles not just over the past three years, but over the past 350, 400 years, what separates this book, and what do you think separates your movie from so many other things that have been put out there? >> i don't know if it's separate. i think it's part of the conversation, and i think kind of adding this new word in, cast

and inviting people to think about our divisions in a way that's not just about skin color and race, but it's about a hierarchy of human beings, the way in which we organize ourselves according to power and status. and the way that we treat each other because of that organization is a new way to drill into all of the isms. basically as i understood it isabel wilkerson is saying and sharing this hypothesis that caste undergirds all of the isms, racism, sexism, islamophobia, ageism, anti-semitism. i am better than you based on a set of random traits. to understand it that way allows me to talk about it in a different way that's free of of some of the limitations of caste, excuse me, limitations of race. you say race to someone they start to shut down, and it's hard to even have a conversation

about the core issues. caste allowed that to open up a bit to me. >> ava, sharpton here, one of the things that i think is important in watching your film, one, is that you're such an established filmmaker, you did not have to do this, is that the context of it right now as we're dealing with issues of d.e.a. and other issues that others have had privileges through families and all that we didn't is to really at this point as you focused as i watched this on people really remembering how we got where we got and, therefore, how do we repair it. talk about how isabel's book and your i think great film about it brings people back to let's start where the problem started so we can look at the solutions now in a more balanced and fair way. >> yes, good morning, rev. one of the things that i think this -- her book did and what we

try to do in the film is bring history to the forefront. you know, in this country we like to put our history in books, put them on the shelf and take the book off the shelf and ban it, act as if it didn't happen. move forward and never really drill down into the behavior from the past, how it reflects on us today. this film synthesizes moments in history along with our current day processing of that history. there are two stores that run side by side. we internalize, we make that history intimate, we individualize it. so often we're able to say about a group of people, those people are that way. we assign blame to people, and we label people based on generalities, and generalizations, and one of the things that the book tries to do and we try to do in the film is to humanize. you get to know trayvon martin before he is killed. you get to understand who the men who are manual scavengers and dig trenches and clean out

with their hand who they are before you generalize them and say they're a certain way. i believe humanization is the key. it's the medicine for caste, it's about drilling down into the intimacy of each human being and recognizing that they are just like us. that's a part of history that we don't consider largely and something that we want to bring to the forefront. >> the new film "origin" is in theaters now. writer and director ava duvernay. thank you so much and congratulations on this project. thanks for being on this morning. >> one of my favorite shows. >> i love that. >> thank you so much. >> she watches "morning joe." >> and thanks so much to katty and also jonathan lemire, he does this about five, six, seven hours a way. >> he works a little bit. >> that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage. right now on "ana cabrera reports," donald trump back in a new york courtroom with closing argus