good morning, 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we're following breaking news this morning. any moment now alabama's attorney general will give an update on the execution of the first person ever to be put to death with nitrogen gas. we'll talk to a witness who says he's never seen such a violent reaction to an execution. but, first, here in new york city, donald trump walks out of the courtroom during closing arguments i e. jean carroll's second defamation case against him. jurors will have to decide how much the former president owes carroll for painting her as a liar, all this after trump took the stand for three minutes on thursday. he said he lashed out at carroll to protect himself, his family

and the presidency. joining us now, just outside the courthouse here in manhattan, msnbc national correspondent yasmin vossoughian. what is the reaction from the courtroom? what are we expecting for the remainder of the day? >> a lot for the remainder of the day. we're expecting a decision here from the jury. i'll start with that. timing-wise, it looks like the judge wants a jury to go into deliberations during lunch, which will likely happen after alina habba delivers her closing remarks. e. jean carroll's attorneys have rested, completed their closing remarks. let me paint a picture, as we await this ten-minute break before alina habba starts her closing remarks and the expectations there. so, at one point e. jean carroll paints a picture for the jury. imagine yourself opening up your computer, she says, and seeing tweets from the president of the united states, then president

donald trump, imagine him saying these things about you, and imagine him saying, you're unattractive, you're a liar, what you're saying is a hoax, imagine him attacking you the way that he has, and then imagine receiving threats that e. jean carroll received. she painted that picture for the jury. she painted a picture of e. jean carroll closing her shades, locking her door, being fearful for her life. people seeking her out because the accusations she made against the former president that has now been found liable for. she talked about the expert witness they called to the stand who said e. jean carroll deserved $7 million to $12 million. that's what would help her correct the wrongs that have been done. how to correct her reputation, for instance. she talked about punitive damages as well. and then she said what is it going to take, as the jury, as you sit there, how much is it going to take to make a former president of the united states

now running for re-election to stop? how much is it going to take him to stop? they played video on the record from his deposition saying he was a billionaire, he could pay a million dollars every single day between now and ten years from now and still have money in the bank. she reiterated that so the jury knows that donald trump has the money to pay and e. jean carroll deserves that money. that's what the jury is going to take away from the closing arguments we heard today. now it is going to go, of course, to alina habba, the former president's attorney who posed the question of did she dine out on the accusations she made against the former president, did she enjoy that time, did she raise her celebrity because of these accusations and what the former president said about her, and, in fact, did not have damages and loss the way in which her attorneys have painted that picture. and so we'll be watching for those closing arguments.

they're seeking $10 million and then who knows how much more in punitive damages as well. and we're looking for a decision later on this afternoon, jose. >> yasmin, right outside the courthouse, thank you so very much. back to alabama, where the state attorney general steve marshall is holding a news conference right now to give details about the execution by nitrogen gas of convicted murderer kenneth smith. let's listen in. >> we stand ready to assist you in implementing this method in your states. with that, happy to answer any questions. first of all, the execution last night was not at all contrary to anything we filed, but entirely consistent. not only with what we filed, but also the experts that were retained on behalf of mr. smith,

as you heard earlier there is no specific time that we can identify for which the nitrogen began to flow, and so identifying that time, no one can do. but we believe not only was this constitutionally carried out, but entirely consistent with how it was planned from the beginning. ultimately the department of corrections will know when that started. i don't have knowledge of that. obviously from the witnesses that were there, they're aware of the circumstances that took place beforehand, including the last words spoken by mr. smith. it was shortly after that that that process began, but i can't give you that specific. yes, sir.

applied with the constitution and the carrying out of this process, mr. smith was given due process through the courts to have his arguments heard, we prevailed and justice occurred for that family last night. [ inaudible ] >> personally, i haven't. i was able to see the remarks of commissioner hamm last night. i commend his team for the process that they operated under for the professional manner in which they carried out this execution. and pleased with how they were able to handle it. [ inaudible ] >> all i've seen are their remarks. and, again, remarkable grace and humility they showed last night. i think they were also very clear, delivering the justice for the horrific death. and one thing we cannot lose

sight of, majority of the questions we added today have dealt with mr. smith. we cannot lose sight of the fact that a woman was brutally murdered, taken from her family, and that's the reason why the state of alabama had to act last night. let's remember her legacy and her life as much as we remember the person who took her away from us. [ inaudible ] >> i personally haven't. members of my staff have and clearly other states are watching what was taking place last night. [ inaudible ] >> the expert for the defendant himself talked about involuntary movements taking place with this process. and that's occurred -- exactly what occurred last night.

[ inaudible ] >> we will definitely have more executions in alabama. i believe that number is 43, but we can get you that. >> that was part of a news conference with some questions and answers. couldn't hear the questions, but certainly by his answers we were able to find out more about what occurred last night and the attorney general being very consistent in that everything was followed and what happened last night, how it happened was under their plans. i want to go to nbc's marisa pera and an investigative reporter for tread news who witnessed the execution last night. what do we know about this case and why did alabama choose this method? >> right, so i also want to add the attorney general's office did express sympathy and compassion for the victim's

family. for those who don't know, smith was convicted after a 1988 murder for hire plot. he along with two others, he was 22 at the time, he along with two others was asked by a pastor to kill his wife, her name was elizabeth senate. so in 2022, smith was actually given a lethal injection for what was supposed to be his execution date. that was unsuccessful. it was not successfully administered, putting smith in position to be the first recipient of this type of execution, nitrogen hypoxia, which we know has been highly controversial. we know that critics of capital punishment, along with his legal team, along with human rights experts, have criticized this, saying they thought it was cruel and unusual punishment. we know that efforts to block this execution, however, were unsuccessful. so, we're hearing from different people, of course, in the aftermath of this. we heard from the alabama governor last night who said in a statement in part that, quote, he was paying for his horrendous crimes, that senate's family can now receive closure after all of these years, and, of course,

we're hearing from the senate family, especially elizabeth senate's sons, one of them, michael, who you'll hear from in a moment here, saying, quote, his debt was paid tonight. >> nothing happened here today that's going to bring mom back. nothing. it is kind of a bittersweet day. we're not going to be jumping around, hooping and hollering and hooray and all that. that's not us. but we're glad this day is over. >> so in terms of the background on nitrogen hypoxia, alabama had already approved this, six years ago, in 2018. lethal injections were already becoming an issue. they were having problems getting the drugs that were needed to administer lethal injections. we know that other states including oklahoma and mississippi have already given the green light for this, jose,

but as of last night, this is now something that as the attorney general just pointed out moments ago, this is no longer unproven. he said, quote, this is no longer an untested method. it is a proven one, and, quote, we stand ready to assist you, meaning other states, in implementing this method. jose? >> thank you so very much. i want to go with you, lee, you were there last night, alabama had said it expected smith to go unconscious within seconds and die within a matter of minutes. is that what you saw? what did you see last night in. >> that's definitely what we saw and it is interesting to see the attorney general say that everything went consistent with the plans that they laid out. we have seen in the past the attorney general and the commissioner of prisons in alabama talk about how the process went smoothly. but it is worth noting that prior to this attempted nitrogen hypoxia execution, there had been three botched executions prior. so one of those as the reporter previously mentioned was an

attempt at lethally injecting the same man, kenneth smith, who the state was unsuccessful in being able to access his veins. there had been two previous attempts as well, one of alan eugene miller, his -- the attempt to execute him via lethal injection was unsuccessful and before that there was the completed execution of joe nathan james where they had to cut into his skin to access veins, which folks, including his family, say were torturous. alabama has a bad record when it comes to completing executions in the state. i witnessed the execution sitting next to deanna smith, kenny smith's wife, and i don't think she thinks justice was carried out last night. >> what did you see? what was it? authorities are saying the

person becomes unconscious in seconds and minutes later he passes. is that that you saw? describe what that room was like and what you saw? >> sure. so, as the witnesses entered the room and the curtain was pulled back, within seconds of mr. smith giving his final remarks, we saw him begin violently shaking, thrashing against the straps that held him down. this was the fifth execution i've witnessed in alabama and i've never seen such a violent execution or violent reaction to the means of execution. so we saw him thrash against the straps, holding him on to the gurney for probably four or five minutes. after that, he gasped for breath for probably an additional, you know, ten minutes or so, that included some dry heaving into the mask. there had been concerns about potentially mr. smith vomiting into the mask. he suffered from ptsd related to the previous execution attempt

in november 2022. so that was something, you know, anxiety related vomiting that they were concerned about. and vomiting induced by the method. so what we saw last night was, you know, a more violent execution than i've ever witnessed in the four previous executions i've been at here in alabama. >> just wondering, is this nitrogen gas method here to stay? two other states have authorized it. >> you heard the attorney general hint that the staff, the staff of the alabama department of corrections is ready to serve as an example for how this can be carried out. difficulty getting lethal injection drugs and difficulty administration the drugs through ivs has led to states looking for other methods. i think, you know, he mentioned there are many death row inmates, i think around 40 inmates in alabama, that have agreed to have opted into the

nitrogen hypoxia. so when all of the issues of lethal injection were happening, you have folks on death row who opted into the method, thinking that the state would never use. now, last night, the state of alabama proved them wrong on that front. we'll continue to see hypoxia executions in alabama and probably in other states that will adopt legislation. >> last thing, when you're there as a witness, and you're not a -- in any way a party to what happened, the horrible crime against this mother, how -- what is that room like? i'm thinking you sat by this person's wife, the family of victim was there as well. what is that room like? >> it is a really silent room. when you walk into the witness chamber in alabama, there is a sign printed on a car tag, they

print car tags there at the facility, and it says stay seated and quiet. and that's what everyone pretty much does. so, once kenny began thrashing against those straps, his wife began to sob, and that was pretty much the only sound in the execution chamber until the curtains were pulled back, something like 25 minutes later. >> lee, thank you, thank you very much for being with us this morning. appreciate it. up next, more on our other top story, former president trump is back in the courtroom after storming out of this morning's proceeding. he's in the e. jean carroll defamation damages case during closing arguments. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. g. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc.

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20 past hour. keeping a close eye on a new york city courtroom where donald trump re-entered the courtroom after storming out last hour. closing arguments are now under way in his defamation damages trial. as soon as this afternoon, a jury will decide how much he has to pay writer e. jean carroll for painting her as a liar. joining us now, nbc correspondent vaughn hillyard and tebadiyo williams. trump returns after storming out this morning urks you have been in courtrooms, federal courtrooms, what is the impact

of that? >> i think that storming out is going to show a level of disrespect to both the process and the jury. right now e. jean carroll's lawyer is trying to convince this jury they have to send a message, that this man, former president, does not respect process, does he not respect courtrooms and he's not going to respect them unless they come out really with the high number. and him walking out of the courtroom, which when you have been in that courtroom, it is a somber place. and the jury and standing up for the judge, standing up for the jury, that's important and respected by all. here to have the president walk out and disrespectful manner, i think the jury is going to see that as consistent with the message that e. jean carroll's lawyer is putting forward, that he lacks respect and needs to be taught a lesson. >> you think in some way trump wanting the jury to come back with a higher number? >> well, tough to get into the former president's mind, but one thing it is not consistent with,

it is not consistent with a defendant who is looking to look at the jury and be sympathetic or look at the jury and say that i'm someone you should feel sorry for in some way. what it is looking at, it is someone who doesn't respect the process. and i think that is consistent with what robbie kaplan, e. jean carroll's lawyer, has been saying. you get up, everyone is seated, the judge is seated, the entire gallery is seated, the jury is seated and you're in closing arguments of a case and at that time is when you get up and you storm out? it is not going to be a good look. >> he's back in there. vaughn, trump canceled the campaign rally to be in the courtroom today, to walk out a few minutes later. you think there is a broader political strategy here or is this just trump acting like trump whether he's in a courtroom or anywhere else? >> it is interesting because donald trump, don't know if he made the calculation or not or who he is viscerally, donald trump does not play on the sympathy of sadness, of i'm a victim. he does play the part of martyr, let me be very clear, whether it

is on the campaign stage or on any of the -- whether from the new york civil fraud trial, he plays on anger and frustration and by him storming out of the courtroom, he is continuing to just further that conveying of frustration and anger instead of making himself be a sympathetic figure. i think for donald trump, you know, he's made the calculation here that defending his name through these trials is more important than even going and holding campaign events around the country. i think for him here, this is difficult, because already we saw in the closing arguments here from roberta kaplan in which she articulates donald trump is worth billions of dollars because of his own testimony in the civil fraud trial in which he said that mar-a-lago is worth $1.5 billion and so i think this is just -- for donald trump, again, this is the part where the walls are going to start closing in where his testimony from one trial impacts another, and it is hard for him to claim that he is the richest man in the world, yet also make himself out to be a

sympathetic figure that should only owe limited damages. >> what does the jury consider when weighing what trump has to pay? >> so there is two questions before the jury with damages here. compensatory damages, and punitive damages. on the former, that's really about how do you make e. jean carroll whole for the damage done to her? i think the number now they're asking is $12 million. and that's about fixing the damage to her reputation. punitive damages, that's really the number that we're interested in here because that is about punishing the former president, that's teaching him a lesson saying how much money would it take for you to stop doing this? what is important to know is that in the law, punitive damages are not the norm in cases. you don't sue and get compensatory damages and all punitive always. you need something -- a kind of behavior, a kind of mal intent to do something egregious here. i think the fact that we're likely to see a high punitive damages number is going to reflect the jury saying that you

weren't just defaming someone in a -- you weren't just attacking her or committing an offense against her, you did something that was so bad that we have to do a high number that will hurt your pocketbook that you won't do it again. and the fact that he's testified in his deposition about how rich he is, and that he has hundreds of millions of dollars in cash and he's worth billions of dollars, e. jean carroll's lawyer has highlighted that in her closing argument, saying this guy is a billionaire. so, $12 million to make her whole, but to punish him is going to take a higher number. >> now they're in that phase of it, when the jury does begin a deliberation, do you see this going fast or do you think it is -- the jury could be deliberating for, you know, days? >> so, that's the big question. i think, you know, conventional wisdom is going to say a quick -- a jury coming back quickly is bad for the former president. that means they saw their decision as simple. they went in there, and they came right back. but, frankly if this goes on until monday, it is not that shocking.

i mean, this jury has a big question of do you go 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, $60 million and they may all have disagreement there. so, frankly, i would bet by end of monday we have a decision for sure, perhaps by end of today. >> there is no limit? they could come back with any number? >> on the punitive front, there has to be some reasonableness. and what i expect to see, if they come back with the number that is truly astronomical, the judge could cut that down to make it more tied to what he sees the facts are, but they do have a lot of leeway deciding what the number will be. >> thank you, both, for being with us this morning. back now to another courtroom, this one in michigan, where it is day two of the historic trial of jennifer crumbley, the mother of the teenage school shooter, who killed four of his classmates at oxford high school in 2021.

jennifer faces involuntary manslaughter charges and if convicted could receive 15 years in prison. this morning the court heard emotional testimony from a former member of the oakland county sheriff's office about what he saw when he responded to the scene. take a listen. >> all i see is i see -- i see kids that look like my kids. >> up next, the united nations top court issues its first ruling in a historic case accusing israel of genocide. why it stopped short of ordering a cease-fire. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. ae you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. gwen: hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. so we have a lot of questions about medicare plans. anne: we've got a lot of answers. how can i help? fran: well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? anne: how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits?

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and i stood by his side when he married eve, the love of his life. i'm a little biased, but take it from adam's little brother. he'll make us all proud as california senator. i'm adam schiff and i approve this message. 32 past the hour. this morning the united nations top court ordered israel to take all measures to prevent genocide from taking place in gaza, but did not order a cease-fire. the international court of justice said it would not throw out a case by south africa accusing israel of committing genocide in its war efforts. the court said israel must improve the humanitarian situation in gaza and preserve any evidence of alleged genocide. israeliri minister netanyahu released a statement that reads in part, quote, the charge of genocide leveled against israel is not only false, it is outrageous, and decent people everywhere shod reject it.

meanwhile, this morning, the u.s. state department announced it has paused funding for the u.n. agency for palestinian refugees, following allegatio that several of its employees may have been actually involved in the october 7th terrorist attack on israel. joining us now, matt bradley from tel aviv. matt, what does this ruling mean and what happens next? >> reporter: yes, good question, jose. we don't actually know. the most immediate thing and one of the stipulations in the ruling was that israel needs to come up with a report within a month and present it to the icj showing exactly how it has been complying with the icj's provisions. those things you just mentioned, providing aid, making sure they're not tampering with any evidence of genocide, making sure they're not committing acts of genocide. that is the next most immediate step. the actual ruling on whether or not israel is committing genocide, that's still in the court and that could take years

to come up with. we have to remember that this is a ruling that is not necessarily going to have teeth because the icj doesn't have a police force, can't throw people in jail, but it will pile some diplomatic pressure on israel and it could really energize a lot of the global community who has been calling for a permanent cease-fire. we haveing deafening requests. now, we are -- this is a u.n. body, the icj. this will go to the united nations security council. they can make some sort of demand of the israelis, but the united states who has a permanent seat on the security council, they can always block anything that is critical of israel. they have done this very often in the past. so, really what happens next, this is really an unusual moment here. i got to tell you, jose, because the fact is there is kind of something for everybody in this ruling. we heard praise of this ruling

from the south africans, from the palestinians, and even from the israelis. that comment from benjamin netanyahu, he was happy that the court didn't decide that the israelis needed to halt their offensive in the gaza strip. though later on, in that comment, he did say that the fact that the court heard the allegations from south africa itself was a disgrace and even further right wing ministers within his cabinet have called the ruling antisemitic. but, you know, this is something that probably won't move the dial on the ground in the gaza strip. but it is a very symbolic and important diplomatic measure for everyone involved. jose? >> matt bradley in tel aviv, thank you so much. joining us now is ambassador alone pincus, former israeli counsel general in new york. a pleasure to see you. thank you for your time. what was your first reaction to this international court of justice decision, partial decision today? >> well, okay, jose. it is like this, it is like a

yellow card in soccer. it was a stern warning. and, you know, there are two ways of looking at it or two takeaways. first is the court said that, well, the court refrained from asking israel to cease-fire and to immediately halt any military operations. had it chose to do so, it would have vindicated the argument that there could be a genocide or that conditions for a genocide, former genocide, exists. the court did not do that. on the other hand, as matt bradley, your correspondent, accurately put it, the court did issue provisional orders for israel, all of which amount to a suspicion that those conditions for genocide could be met. now, this is not general side from a legal point of view, because you need to prove intent

and intent is very difficult thing to prove and i'm pretty satisfied that there is absolutely no -- no intent on israel's side. however, if you look at the humanitarian aid and medical aid that is stipulated in the ruling, you see that even though it is not mentioned specifically, jose, the court is essentially saying there should be a cease-fire. now, tie this, tie this now to the possibility of a hostage deal that is being discussed, deliberated, or negotiated, mediated by qatar and then directly by the u.s. and that also includes an extended cease-fire. so take those two together, we're looking at the possibility of a cease-fire. in and of itself, the decision was less than what israel feared, but it is a major, major

slap on the wrist. >> and, ambassador, you signed a letter with 40 other former israeli officials who were now calling on prime minister netanyahu to resign. what needs to happen? what needs to change? >> well, look, to be honest, jose, he should have resigned on october 7th. and then on november 7th and december 7th and january 7th and he's probably going to get to february 7th without resigning. so, this letter is more of an expression of will and wishful thinking rather than a prescription or a plan of action. he needs to resign. if he doesn't resign, i mean, resignation is nothing that i expect him to do. what he needs to do, what the political system needs to do is to call for an election. obviously there is a heightened level of frustration with him in the u.s. and the biden administration. obviously he has not cooperated on american visions of the post

war gaza, and obviously he's not a partner in a reconfigured -- so the pressure, the domestic pressure and the international pressure, particularly that coming from the u.s. will in the next few months force him into calling for an early election. there is one more thing, if i may add, jose. >> yes. >> his coalition is going to be extraordinarily resistant and opposed to the combination of the icj, international court of justice's ruling and the hostage deal, on grounds that a cease-fire fails to address israel's war objectives, eliminating, eradicating, annihilating hamas. and so i can see his coalition -- there is a possibility of his coalition

imploding within those two, three months period. >> ambassador alon pinkas, thank you for being with us. appreciate your time. we're learning new details today about the harrowing scenario facing civilians inside gaza. "the washington post" details a story of a 27-year-old woman's experience giving birth to her fourth child in the midst of this conflict. her uncle's cell phone flashlight all they had to see by, where he delivered his niece's baby on the spot of a cold earth between tents. quote, they cut the boy's umbilical cord with an unsterilized scalpel and filled tin cans with hot water to keep him warm. joining us now, dr. tanya hajj hassan from doctors without borders, also the co-founder of gaza medic voices. thank you, doctor, for your time. how does this story compare to what you're hearing on the ground there in gaza? >> yeah, you know, people have

seen everything, colleagues of mine who have been in iraq, yemen, syria, you know have been working humanitarian sector for decades, have run out of words to describe this. i ran out of words to describe this over two months ago now. that story you just shared is one of so many stories that we hear on a daily basis. some i can share with you right now. what is clear is that conditions are utterly catastrophic. and every story is, you know, the subject of nightmares, things that we never thought we would get to, not in our lifetime, not in the 21st century. at this point, you mentioned earlier the staggering numbers of those killed and injured thus far. just today, in the past 24 hours, almost 200 palestinians in gaza have been killed. and over 350 have been injured. and unfortunately we can't get data from the central and northern parts of gaza where it

is very difficult to get communications, where hospitals are essentially almost entirely out of function. and as you know, there are still thousands trapped under the rubble that cannot be counted in those figures. some that may be alive, the majority of whom are probably dead at this point. the amount of suffering in the gaza strip for those who are still alive is really indescribable. they are besieged, unable to flee, have been told -- displaced, forcibly displaced multiple times to areas they are told are safe. which in effect don't turn out to be safe as has been the case with even the organization i work for who on multiple occasions was thought to be operating under safe or deconflicted circumstances and unfortunately we have lost four of our colleagues who were killed in attacks.

and the entire population who has survived so far is displaced, the majority are living in tents, in the cold of the winter. i'm speaking to you from amman, jordan, at the moment and i'm telling you i am indoors in a heated home and i'm still cold. and it is raining outside, i cannot imagine what life is for all these people. and for the -- particularly, you know, the thousands, tens of thousands of children and newborn babies that require very warm conditions to survive. >> and, i want to talk to you about that because in war, war is always just the most horrible representation of humanity, in a war where -- there are no, on one side, hamas, you know, these are not people in uniform, so they're -- to discern who is hamas and who is a civilian is

in and of itself difficult. there is the issue of women, pregnant women and children. those clearly are not fighters. and so, their plight is included in that complicated, confused battle going on every day in gaza. how can the world, how can we help specifically those that are clearly humanitarians, that are civilians, and how can we help them in a humanitarian fashion? >> look, the demographics of those who have been killed in gaza so far almost exactly mirror the demographics of the population. that -- those are not the demographics of war victims normally. normally war victims are predominantly young men. what we're seeing in the gaza, in gaza, is about 70% of those

killed so far are women and children. what are being considered targets are hospitals, clinics, schools, mosques, churches, u.n. schools, internally displaced people are sheltering. so, you know, this is indiscriminate bombardment. we had clinics, facilities, ambulances, as have other ngos been targeted. so, you know, it is hard to then hear people try and describe this or justify this as collateral damage or just a consequence of war when the realities on the ground suggest that nowhere is safe, and suggest that locations, buildings, institutions that are protected under international humanitarian law are not protected and are intentionally being targeted. and being -- and are being --

targeting is being justified. there is no justification for bombing a hospital. there is no justification for shooting through a window of a hospital and killing a healthcare provider who is doing their utmost best under extremely difficult conditions to keep the few people they can alive without resources, without supplies, that we haven't been able to get in. there is really an immense avalanche of human suffering that could be prevented. it is all man made. >> dr. tanya haj hassan, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. >> please, i just want to add one last thing. you were talking earlier about preliminary measures for immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed humanitarian assistance. we know that the conditions on the ground, it is impossible to

do that without a cease-fire. it is impossible to get the aid to the north. it is impossible to get the aid safely to middle gaza. yesterday people who were trying to get aid that was coming in through aid trucks, thousands of civilians were ultimately shot at, at least 20 were killed, at least 150 were injured, trying to reach the humanitarian aid that had come in. and the amount of aid that is coming in is woefully inadequate. so adequate or sufficient humanitarian aid is only possible with a cease-fire. >> doctor, thank you. appreciate that. and thank you for that last part as well. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. up next, exclusive new details about how the president's top immigration adviser is leaving. it comes amid the effort to sink a border deal on capitol hill in order to boost trump's presidential campaign. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. a. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. (bobby) my store and my design business?

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50 past the hour. nbc news has exclusive reporting one of president bin'top mi grapgs advisers in the national security council, katy tobin, will leave the white house after three years. her departure comes as a battle over border policy on capitol hill grows more tense. the debate among senate republicans escalated after mitch mcconnell faced difficulties in a private meeting last week, including opposition from former president trump. now, trump has been posting on social media saying the gop should not, quote, do a border deal at all unless we get everything. >> reporter: there's growing tension among republicans as to whether to take this immigration deal on the table or whether to reject it as a way to preserve the chaos in the asylum system so former president donald trump

can use it as a political wedge against president biden in the 2024 election. republican snorsz have openly told us some in their party see immigration as too good of a political issue to want to resolve right now, and this has sparked serious pushback from other republicans who say it's a good deal, a conservative deal, they should take it. that includes thom tillis, the north carolina republican, who i spoke to yesterday saying it would be immoral to reject this for political reasons. he said he didn't come to capitol hill to get bossed around by a president or presidential candidate. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell has been emphatic about supporting the deal on the basis of the policy merits. mitt romney responded pointedly to donald trump lobbying republicans to try to kill the deal for political reasons. listen to what he said. >> the fact that he would communicate to republican senators in congress, people, that he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame biden for it is really appalling.

>> reporter: trump responded in a statement, doubling down, saying the deal has to be perfect or republicans should kill it. one person who seems to be aligned with him, is speaker mike johnson, who put out a letter to colleagues today saying if the rumors about the contents of this draft proposal were true, it would have been dead on arrival in the house anyway. he insists the senate should accept the house's party line republican bill known as hr-2, or there is no deal. that is a steep climb it has to go in order to become law. there are deep implications, not just for u.s. immigration policy, the presidential election, but ukraine aid and aid to israel and palestinian refugees, it all dies with it. the global consequences would be huge. >> thank you very much. pulitzer prize-winning producer of latino usa and distinguished journalists, they're both msnbc

political analysts. it seems as though any progress on the border on capitol hill has a lot to do, success or failure, with donald trump, who -- he's not a senator, but he's right now apparently calling the shots for many on capitol hill. i want you to listen to some of what the former president has been saying about immigration, about border, et cetera, on the campaign trail. take a listen. >> i'll seal the border, and we'll shut down the invasion of our country. we are people pouring in our borders. nobody's ever seen anything like it. nobody knows where they're from, unvetted, unchecked. i will instruct the heads of i.c.e. and border patrol to begin the largest deportation program in american history, because it's not sustainable. we had the safest border in the history of our country, and now we have the most unsafe border in the history of the world. we're bringing them if from mental institutions, prisons, terrorists are pouring into our

country. >> so, susan, politically, is trump holding the cards here? >> he is. it's not the first time. he's done it on shutting down the government. republicans didn't pay him any mind, but now we're so close to an election year. if i were nikki haley, i would try and get under trump's skin on this. i would say i'm not going to wait a year to support a piece of legislation that can keep our borders safe, that can stop fentanyl from coming in. i think they should make this deal, and when i'm president, i will do one, two, three, four to make the border even more secure. but i'm not willing to let people in our country die over politics. >> die over politics. maria, we have spent our entire lifetime, and there but for the grace of god go i, in so many cases. i'm just thinking, you that have the pulse of so many, when you hear this, invasion, they're

emptying their mental institutions, this is poisoning the blood, what do you see? and how does that contrast, maria, so what you see on a daily basis and the people that we serve? >> right. so, no surprise that i will say former president donald trump is lying. when was the last time he was on that border talking to people who would actually speak to him, right? he said there's an invasion. actually no. they're unchecked. if you go to 26 plaza overnight, you will see the lines of people standing out there in the cold overnight to register, to be like, we're here, vet us, hi, we're here. anybody can go and speak to them. they're not afraid. they're presenting themselves in the freezing cold. the other thing we're not hearing, jose, and you'll love this, because i've been out talking with them, all you need to do is go and speak to them,

and i said to one of the women who i met, i said, do you feel like you're a victim here, that you're taking -- that you're trying to take things away? she said, we are here, we are getting things done, we don't even know about the protests, we are resolving this. [ speaking a global language ] so -- i just watched the movie "nyad" this morning and i'm crying, love this hero story. my woman is a swimmer at 88. we love the heros in hollywood. those actual heroes who climb through the jungles, we'll sleep outside, dodge the bullets, they're right there in 26 fed ra plaza. instead, donald trump is lying, saying they're bringing in -- no. >> but there is the political side of this, which unfortunately sometimes, many times overshadows the fact that we're talking men, women, and

children. so, the question is, how do -- how does this political semantic conversation, which is oftentimes ugly, how do you move away from that and deal with the men, women, and children? and also, maria and susan, the issue of there are those that have come to this country by the millions asking for asylum, saying, here i am, where can i register, but then there are also millions of people who have been here, many of them for decades with u.s.-born children. there are more than 11 million families that live -- people that lived in mixed-immigration status homes that have been here participating, part of the fabric of american society, culture, and economy. and they also say, well, we're here too. and we've been vetted. is there any possibility of this being dealt with in a realistic humanitarian way?

>> no, i'm sorry, not right now, not in a presidential year. it's not going to happen. and honestly, there is something dividing the political from the policy, from the people and the politics. and right now, for people in this country, they of been struggling with this for decades. i have this to make their voices heard nape do it at the ballot booths, talking to their electricityive leaders. right now, it's not going to change, for an honest, straightforward answer. >> that's what we want. latinas and latinos are the second largest vote cog hort in the united states right now talking presidential politics. i agree everyone is feeling overwhelmed and sad, et cetera, but the reality is for them immigration is one of the top five issues, and they are watching this, and they are sick

and tired of -- i'm a professor at barnhart college. my students who have undocumented parents say they're right there in the ivy league. they're not giving up. it is a loss, a loss of economic power in this country. you deport people, great, you educated them, trained them, employed them, now you're going to -- it's ridiculous if you believe in cap tammism. it's about voting now, getting people registered to vote, and believing in the democratic process. >> and also seeing that people who say they want to hem actually do, because words are cheap, and real change takes sacrifice, blood, sweat, toil, and tears, and we need to see some of that. >> all you have to do is walk roosevelt hotel or 26 -- talk to them. >> maria hinojosa, susan del percio, jonathan for being with us. that wrap us up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. see you tomorrow night on "nbc nightly news saturday." andrea mitchell has more news right now.