and understand our divisions in that way, for me, allows me to talk about it in a different way that is free of some of the limitations of caste, excuse me, limitations of race. you say race to someone, they start to shut down, and it's hard even have a conversation about the poor issues. caste allow them to open that up a little bit for me. >> that is over the saturday dishing of morning joe. >> the weekend! >> the weekend on msnbc starts right now! >> you are your picks? your picks? >> good morning, it is saturday, january 27th. i'm alicia menendez with symone sanders-townsend and michael steele. here are some of the stories we are following today. a jury order style trump to pay e. jean carroll more than $80 million in defamation damages.

plus, house democratic leader hakeem jeffries is here at the table as republicans struggle to do anything with their majority in the chamber. and arizona secretary of state demanding the justice department take action to protect election workers. grab your coffee, settle in, welcome to the weekend. we begin with the verdict and e. jean carroll's defamation case against donald trump. the 83.3 million dollar award includes 65 million in punitive damages. friday's verdict came after an eventful day in court. trump stormed out of the courtroom during closing arguments while carroll's lawyer were telling jurors that the former president is a liar who thinks quote, the rules don't apply to him. joining us now, former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, he is an msnbc contributor and former senior fbi official. also with us, msnbc host and legal analyst katie phang.

katie, in the run up to this verdict, the big question was, what number is going to be big enough to make donald trump stop? 83 point $3 million. what does that mean for his future actions, and what does it mean more specifically as it forces his hand on liquidity? >> i think to answer your first question, alicia, and good morning, thank you for having me on the weekend, i'm very happy to be on the show. i think what it means to your first question alicia, it is left to be seeing. we do know that donald trump posted on truth social almost immediately after the various was rendered in this case. he did not mention e. jean carroll by name at all. he did not include. what it normally did in terms of defamation of e. jean carroll, of course he claims he's going to appeal, and that is a whole another cup of tea, and i think chuck would agree with me that there are no valid grounds for appeal in this case, but i think what is left to be seen is whether or not 83 point $3 million is enough to keep him quiet should he redirect his vitriol to somebody else, it would only result in more

defamation lawsuits, and i don't think he can control himself. i think that is something we've seen time and time again, just like a broken record, which is donald trump, i think it's a history of legal losses is going to continue and i think is best hits are left to be seen i think. >> you know, what really struck me by this is that in court, e. jean carroll's lawyer noted that she came forward because she felt it was finally time to speak about what she had done to her, and then she gave interviews, and she had to defend herself when she attacked her. she brought the lawsuit in order to get them to stop. chuck, this was more about e. jean carroll, and it's also about accountability. the fact the powerful people don't get to do whatever they want, and donald trump has booked the law and every sense. just in terms of this case, and the lawyers made the case in court that what needs to be done for him to respect the

rule of law. >> when maybe this is a first step. the verdict was large, over $80 million, but the biggest component about, so moon, was punitive damages. the jury obviously felt and unanimously so that his conduct was both outrageous and needed to be stopped. we will see if it wos. we do not know that yet. but that i think is a very clear signal that the law apies to him, and at least this jury and this case felt that he had not only harmed miss carroll, but that he asked to be punished for harming miss carroll. >> one of the things i found very fascinating as we looked at the professionals in the room, e. jean carroll's lawyer, and those who were laying out the case the judge, the jury, and then there is alina habba, i would like to play her response to this verdict if we could. just to get a flavor and a feel for how this habba found the

case that she had just tried. [inaudible] >> no, no, i'm glad you asked me that question. no, i'm not having any second thoughts about representing president trump. if the party thing i could ever do. >> it's the proudest thing i could ever do, but i recall a comment that she made at one point where she was asked, would you rather be pretty or smart, and a response was, i would rather be pretty because i can fake being smart. and so the reality of it is that you need to be smart in the courtroom. you need to understand the reaction a lot of times. we want to drama, it was performative, and it was to appease trump, and it appealed to the facts that were at hand, and first off, this was not a case where you are trying to prevent him from being judged sexual predator. they had already taken place. this is about something very

different. she seemed to be out of sorts with what her mission was, and actually wound up costing her i think an incredible amount of money. >> i think performative, michael, is a good word. federal court is very stage formal place. its rules and procedures, performative doesn't tend to work. it doesn't work. and if it's more clear that it doesn't work and you can only good facts disposal and so perhaps a lawyer i don't know this particular, one has nothing left to do but sort of -- do the drama, nickel of noise, and at the end of the day, the facts control, was it shakespeare and the fault lies not masters but in our selves. >> that's true, that's true. i guess that the extension of the question then is how is a jury look at that and they're looking at the --

deciding how much skin and how much he's gonna put on the table. how does the jury look at the process, and how trump himself behaved. because actually, i thought the number was going to be higher, personally. about the number was going to be hard based on the way trump behaved during the various points in the case? >> i'm not sure if i thought it was higher or lower, but i think at would say this way. lawyers like to think that what they say in court matters a lot. but what really matters in a court of law is the law in the facts. and it doesn't matter how high good you are, but maybe in television, great lawyers when cases, when courtrooms, great facts when cases. here it was very clear that mr. trump had to fame this poor woman. he had sexually assaulted this woman, and so those facts in a

court of law with a good judge presiding results in the verdict from mrs. carroll, as it should. i don't know that alina habba or anyone else could have work to miracle mr. trump's favor given that set of facts. >> you know, what katie, the question i have is e. jean carroll ever going to see this money? 83 point $3 million is a lot of money, but we could put it on the screen. new york times has an article that note the trump will be able to wait to pay the full 83.3 million until all appeals are exhausted. how is this going to work? >> yeah, so we've already seen is headed in the first defamation trial with e. jean carroll. donald trump, whether he was able to get a company to be able to facilitate him posting the bond actually ended up posting the entirety of the bond in the amount of five point $6 million by way of stipulation, by way of agreements with e. jean carroll's lawyers. it was deposited into the court where it sets. the money on top of the 5

million-dollar verdict was to cover interest as the case finds its way through the pile process. and this instance, when this case involves this level of punitive damages, local rules in the southern district of new york talk about the bonds, the bonds them out. it depends on the company, the bone completely will cardinal trump to post anywhere from 20% if not more also with collateral. so what could be used for collateral, simone? he could use real estate properties, he could maybe find somebody else who could be serving as collateral in this instance. but the problem for donald trump's leverage. he is over leveraging himself, and that is what got him into trouble in the first place with the new york attorney generals case for the civil fraud. the fact that he overinflated the assets, and then the new york attorney general letitia james is -- upwards of $370 million. donald trump over leverages himself in every way possible. he over leverages himself when it comes to money. he does it when it comes to his reputation, he does it when it comes to his brand, he does it when it comes to his political stability and his political

viability, and the cars, this house of cards comes crashing down eventually. when it comes to money, though that is singularly the thing that brings with the most pride. and so when he keeps on taking hit after hit on his pocketbook, that is when it matters the most for somebody like donald trump. and that also has to matter to the donors, we know that people are putting up money, maybe $5, and where is this money going. he is lighting it on fire. he lights on fire when he does what he does, which is he doesn't follow the law. he likes gunfire when he doesn't listen to his lawyers, and he's doesn't live and firemen as lawyers as bad as leana habba, and we don't know whether she counts within not to speak or not act the way that he did. but from what i've learned off the record, even judge kaplan was evolve visibly at the behavior that he saw from alina kaplan and donald trump. the jurors, they see everything, guys. when you are in a jury trial, and chuck knows this, when you

are in a jury trial and you are a trial lawyer, the jury is looking at everything. they're looking at your shoes. like, did michael policy shoes today? they're looking at simone, the simone where that pretty necklace today? they're looking at everything. and so they are looking at all of this going down and they're looking at the judge in the transactions between the judge in the exchanges between the judge. you see the paradigms of the side of e. jean carroll, and you see the depravity of the law that's going on on donald trump side, and so of course the jurors are going to be like, that's not right, that's not good. especially the toddler running out of the -- and so because of, that that is a reason why you saw your punitive damages yesterday at 65 million. >> this was about minimizing the damage that donald trump can do, and that's teinto me that judge kaplan advisories in this case to never disclose that you are on this. how unusual is that? >> it is unusual. most juries are not anonymous. it is also a sad sign of our

times because we know that people who serve in public roles as jurors, their election workers, alicia who get threatened, get harassed. it stopped. and so i think it's also sad. >> it's very sad. >> i guess that my last question for you was surrounding all of this is happened, the jury and they made their decision, it struck me that the jury did send a question to the judge asking how high can the numbers go, which was telling to me. it is my understanding that donald trump did a deposition where he was worth upwards of $400 million or something like that. so this 83 point $3 million given what he said he has, not that he's worth, but he had 400 million in his bag count. given that he said he has formulas its banking count, i have seen some experts note

that 83 point $3 million is not that much money for him, and this number is important because if he tries to appeal, did he pedram softly said he had $400 million in his bank account? and so is that right, these experts keying in on something that kind of meets a strategy for trump? >> well there is that saying, right symone, the numbers don't lie. that's kind of look at donald trump into trouble with the new york attorney generals office, but to your question, donald trump has said that he has $400 million in liquid cash if they're able to access. that does not include the totality of his assets, with the real estate portfolio, and at the investment that he has. but it is the cumulative effect of whether that is enough to make a deal in his net worth. i think that your net worth, especially for someone like donald trump, isn't just cash on hand. it also includes whether people think that you're a risk, a risk worth taking. and so putting aside what a

success is with the new york a.g.'s case and whether he's able to survive what they called a corporate death penalty to be able to do business in the state of new york, is donald trump it worthwhile risk if you are a person in the world of finance and business. is it the kind of person that you think is going to be worth taking a gamble on to loan money to to be able to invest, with to continue to make a profit with. we have seen him file bankruptcies. we have seen him fail miserably as a businessman. so despite his attestations was prostitution, that his brand is invaluable, and then he's quote the richest man in the world because of that ban, the reality comes crashing down from because it is not. and so if you cannot get somebody to loan you in terms of being a bond charity $5 million, who is going to pony at this now for him? somebody, well but he's going to have to put collateral a, and he runs the risk of losing it. >> somebody will pony up the funds. well i have more questions, but chuck is going to stay with us.

kati, will let katie go, and she got up earlfous you, all but be sure to watch the katie phang show today. katieas dr. samuel dickman, the medical director of planned parenthood montana and dr. dickman led the study about sexual souls leading to pregnancy in states, the numbers are crazy, that's coming up at noon eastern right here on msnbc. we will be watching katie. next folks, we are waiting for a ruling and tolerance immunity claim. we will dig into that case and what it means for donald trump's criminal trials. plus, next hour, house minority leader hakeem jeffries will be here to talk about the improving economic outlook ahead of the 2024 economic -- election. you are watching the weekend. ng the weekend woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her.

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ruling from the d.c. appeals court when donald trump's claim that he should be immune from criminal charges in the federal election interference trial. trump hn hammering the argument home at rallies and on social media over the past two weeks saying a president should be immune ev acts that, quote, cross the line. jordan reubewrites for the deadline legault blog, quote, judges know that this opinion needs to be airtight. he addse, while some observers are eager for a ruling as soon asossible to avoid further delay of trump's federal election interference trial, which technically is set to start march 4th. the opinion takes weeks instead

of days. that is not the judges greatest concern. we often talk about how doing something expeditiously mean something different to journalists and politicos than it means to judges and attorneys. >> from my perspective, -limited as it may be, the core is moving expeditiously. i would never expect an opinion in two weeks. that will be moving at the speed of light. it is the christmas morning thing. it seems like it is forever away. although might only be days away. waiting is hard. they are moving, i think, quickly. we should have an opinion soon. >> i am glad that you have tempered our expectations. i was told it could potentially be just days after the arguments unwrapped. >> that is expected -- >> really, why? >> based on my experience, limited as it may be, i have never seen courts move in days. i would rather they get it right, that the opinion be

sound, thoughtful, an airtight. to steal your words, alicia, than that it only be quick. because it is going to be under a lot of scrutiny. whatever they do will be heavily scrutinized, including, perhaps, by the supreme court. getting it right matters a lot. >> on friday lawyers for colorado voters, let's just be clear the state supreme court there ruled that donald trump should not be on the ballot. they urged the supreme court, in a new brief, the donald trump is ineligible for office. when are we going to see the supreme court weigh in? it's the appeals court ruling the switch, if you will, that then brings a supreme court in on this? they can't avoid it. >> on this issue, whether or not mr. trump is eligible to run and hold office, the supreme court will weigh in. our? they have agreed to hear an oral argument on that case, i believe, on february 8th. whether you loathe mr. trump or you love mr. trump, you have to agree that this is exactly the

type of case the supreme court ought to hear, right? different rulings in different states. let's have one set of rules that are clear, that apply to everyone. he is either on the ballot or off the ballot, whatever the ruling may be. then we can move forward. i do not think it is tenable to have him on some ballots are not on others. to have states reaching these results for different reasons. let's have a uniform rule. that is when the supreme court can really be of the most help. >> the problem you have with that is you don't have enough states that have weighed in on this issue, one way the other. you are talking to states have kicked him off, three or four have said, yes, he will stay on our ballots. my sense is the supreme court is going to say, let's get a little more juice in the game before we make a ruling here. this space, chuck, is fraught with politics. i appreciate the good lawyer that you are, incredible prosecutor and all, but at the

end of the day this is about the politics for this course. this is a no win ruling for it. knowing the chief justice, as i do, in my experience watching him, talking to folks in his world, that is the last thing he wants to do. way in further on the political side of this. >> i take your point but let me try to be more clear. the supreme court has to do something. so you do not have disperse all ten different states. it doesn't mean that they have to resolve forever. but now, whether or not, mr. trump can hold office. i do not think it is tenable, as i was discussing with simone, for colorado and mean to do one thing. perhaps minnesota and new mexico to do another. that is not tenable. >> why? >> well, because it strikes me -- >> the states decide, right? >> it strikes me the constitution has a provision which ought to answer the question. he's either eligible to hold office, or he's. not he either engaged in an insurrection, or he did not.

whether or not chief justice roberts and his colleagues on the supreme court like it or not, i think they have to answer that question, ultimately. >> jacqui, positive something to me which is amazing given the mila we've talked about the 14th amendment. the amount that we have all not read about the 14th amendment, which i had not process sooner. we are talking right now about whether not he should be allowed on the. ballot whether or not he should be allowed to run. the constitutional verbiage is whether or not a person is allowed to hold office. does that potentially mean the supreme court takes that as an off ramp here, then returns to the question, should he win? >> i think that is exactly right. thank you for asking that question. you are precise in your language, right? >> it is your language i'm repeating back to you. you're welcome. >> now, it is your own language, alicia. it's your show, it's your language. you are right. the text of the constitution preclude somebody who engaged in an insurrection from holding office. not from running for office.

some of the judges who have already tried to answer these hard questions have seized on that. some of the briefs that have been filed in support of mr. trump, by friends of the court, -- in latin. have also raised this point. he has the right to run as an interaction if he just cannot serve. what kind of distinction, one that only a lawyer could love. >> someone has that in their coffee right now like me and is a little shocked. are you saying the supreme court off-ramp could be, hey, he can run. we will have to revisit if in fact he is and insurrectionists if he wins. >> remember simone, there is also a provision in the constitution that provides congress to remove the disqualification of an insurrectionist. >> two thirds vote though. >> two thirds vote. each chamber could remove the disqualification. it might be the case, i'm not saying that this is the right outcome, but to alicia's point,

a possible off-ramp that the supreme court could let him run, the may be brought into question later whether not he can serve. >> you thought the politics that i was talking about was confusing. >> i was, chuck rosenberg, i like to say he brought the tee. he dropped a little bomb in my teeth this morning. >> i'm not saying i have this right -- >> it's your theory? >> this is an argument that is out there. >> the problem on the backside of this is if he runs and he wins the court now comes and says, you can't serve. buckle up, everybody! >> if i may, there is yet another provision in the constitution, the 20th amendment, that contemplates this problem. if a president is elected but not qualified to serve, maybe he hasn't been 14 years a resident, maybe he's not yet 35. maybe she is an insurrectionist and she has been disqualified, the 20th amendment says that the vice president serves until the president qualifies. >> somebody take us to

constitutional law class real quick! chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. you love to see it. next, arizona secretary of state, adrienne fontes, will join us on his push for the justice department to protect election workers from what he calls domestic terrorism. you are watching the weekends. the weekends. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach.

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ntess demanding the justice department do more to protect poll workers. in an interview with rolling stone this month, fontes expressed frustration with the rtme of justice in the biden administration over the issue. fontes told the magazine, as cautious a person as attorney general merrick garland's, i think he's being far too cautious here when it comes to these investigations and prosecutions of threats against election administrators and election workers. arizona is one of several states that have seen a surge in threats against election

workers. arizona secretary of state adrienne fontes joins us now. greetings to you, sir. thank you for being with us on the weekend. let's start with where we ended in rolling stone what specifically do you think the justice department should be doing here as it relates to election workers? >> first, thanks for having me. we will get straight to it. i think more robust investigation of many of the threats we have seen, not just giving short thrift to what these threats are, giving a little bit more weight to the intimidation factor of these threats, versus some of what the law enforcement deems actionable. second, i think it is very important that the department of justice be very, very, straightforward about the prosecutions they've had. we live in a country of 330 plus million people. 50 states, a bunch of territories, tens of thousands

of threats we have seen. only 12 prosecutions as far as we can tell right now. that is not enough. moreover, i think once the prosecutions happened, and convictions occur, the department needs to celebrate these as a deterrent effect for future threats and future potential violence against elected officials. remember, election administrators, these folks we've the golden thread that weaves that fabric of our society together. without elections and competent election menstruating these jobs, the whole of our society falls apart. my urgency speaks to the fundamental basics of our society. not just folks that i know as competent professionals who are doing their jobs in some very difficult circumstances. >> secretary fontes, your state, arizona, has been hit particularly hard by this. you have one of the highest turnover rates of election workers in this country. when you talk to your colleagues, other secretaries of state, do they share your assessment of the danger? and the doj?

>> they certainly share my concern about the turnovers. look, if you have elections officials who have been doing these jobs for decades, that experience going away is difficult to replace. particularly when we are already this close to the next presidential election. many states are already going through their primaries, planning for the rest of what is going to happen in 2024. that experience going at the door, add on the scrutiny, and on the threats, and on all the rest that folks have to deal. with that experience, the absence of that experience, is very, very, difficult. secretaries across the united states of america are very concerned. as to their frustration with the department of justice, i will allow each secretary to speak for themselves. i do not speak for all of the other secretaries. some may have had better experiences than others. i can tell you right now that we are all very worried for the folks who work in elections and in our respective states. we want to take care with. and we want to make sure that they can feel confident that

the department of justice, the fbi, and other law enforcement officials are going to have their back. in most cases they do. in most circumstances the department of justice, which i distinguish clearly from the white house, so really needs to step it up. >> mister secretary, given that most if not all of election activity is not governed at the federal level, it is governed at the state level, what efforts are you taking, as well as in coordination with other secretary of state across the country, to work with state officials? to work with the state party that have a significant role in providing the kind of workers who show at the polling places? other people who have official positions on election day, to better coordinate and to better weed out the crazy and the dangerous. i see the leap to the federal, at the end of the day it really

begins with what happens amongst and within the state community to deal with some of these issues. >> michael, thank you for that question. i think there is a very important piece of the puzzle here. this federal republic does have be shunned election administration happening. the election is in a very tight local level. it is not true that the states completely regularly elections. we have a whole slew, including the voting rights act and the help america vote act, of federal regulations and we also have several federal crimes interference with election officials, to name one. it is a federal crime. much of this falls within the federal jurisdiction, particularly during the federal election cycles. look, article one of the constitution allows congress to regulate our elections regardless of what our friends on the far-right say. states do run many of the aspects of the mechanics of our elections with the states. and then it is executed at the

end of the day at the county level. bottom line is this, without that federal leadership, like we had during the civil rights movement where local officials may not even asking in the best way they could in this circumstance local individuals may not be acting the best they should and be pursued. the point here is the deterrent effect that does not exist, i would challenge the notion that it all falls to the locals. look, the department of justice has extolled the virtues of the 12 convictions they have had. they know that they can get involved they have been involved the need to do more they need to do more. this is not joe biden's problem. we do not want the president of the united states who may be on the ballot dealing with this. that over politicizes this. it needs to be handled by america garland, the attorney general, and the folks at the department of justice. this is not political. these are criminal acts, as you indicated, they are threats. they are violence against folks

for a political and. that is the very definition of domestic terrorism. we need to treat it as such. that is a federal issue. >> let it be known that a lot of us appreciate the work that our secretary of state do in the space, along with other election officials. it is important work. we thank you secretary adrienne fontes were being part of that working for being on with us today. up next, the united nations highest court weighs in. the hague calls for israel to do all i can to stop atrocities in gaza. is israel ready and willing to listen? next hour, house democratic leader hakeem jeffries will be here at the table to talk about trump's influence in the republican party. how it is impacting negotiations over the border. you are watching the weekend. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network.

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ordered israel to take measures to pve acts of genocide in gaza. and also said israel must be more to allow humanitarian aid into the enclave. the court stopped short of calling for a cease-fire between israel and hamas. here is what the u.s. national security coordinator, john kirby, had to say. >> i think the courts ruling is consistent with many of our positions, and much of the approaches we have taken with israel. for instance, the view that israel has the right to take action against the terrorists of the october 7th attack. that they have an obligation to be mindful of minimizing suing casualties. they have an obligation to assist the international community to get humanitarian assistance. all of these are things we have been pushing and urging for, as well. >> also on friday the state department paused funding to the human agency that provides aid to the palestinians following accusations that some of the agencies workers are

involved in the october 7th attack-y on israel. joining us is former california congresswoman, jane harmon. chair of the commission on the national defense strategy and president of the woodrow wilson center. someone who i have known and worked with for a long time. good to have you on the table. >> before we were in politics! >> that's right. >> you saved him. thank you, congresswoman. >> save me from myself. so, this is a pretty important moment to have the u.n. and the administration on a line, in a way. to say, look, there are some bright lights here. talk to us about this ruling, this decision, and what it means and how it positions the biden administration. >> i am president emerita of the wilson center. there is a new president, there has been two. on that subject, the word genocide is a terrible word.

using it against israel is extremely painful. i am sorry that south africa did it this way. nelson mandela, when he graduated from law school in south africa, couldn't get a job with the white law firms. a jewish law firm hired him. always friendly, and should have been, to the large jewish population in cape town. i find this cruel. the decision walked a very narrow line. i get that. the issue on the u.n. relief agency i think is more clear cut. i don't think the stat would've been taken without a lot of proof. three countries joined the u.s. and doing it. my view is it is not okay for u.n. employees to be on one side of this conflict, especially the illegal and enormously outrageous invasion of israel by hamas. >> i don't think anybody should be on the side of hamas, to be clear. congresswoman, it strikes me --

the international criminal court in south africa bringing the claims of genocide, genocide is a term we are hearing more and more nowadays in the discourse as it surrounds the war that has broken up between hamas and israel, as it relates to the impact of this war on the palestinian people living in gaza. genocide has a very specific definition. i was not alive then, but i remember when you talk about rwanda, the who tees and the tutsis and how the international community was very reticent to use the term genocide, right up until the end. it meant that they would have to do something. the -- do you think that having that conversation, it is happening domestically it is happening domestically do you think the conversation is the right conversation here? >> i think the right conversation is whether there is a better more humane way for israel to pursue its goals, not

to eliminate the palestinian people about to eliminate hamas leadership that attacked israel. that is the goal. that is why genocide does not apply. do i think there is a better way? you bet i do. i commend president biden for speaking out. i wish he would speak out more fourths fully for a pathway to a two-state solution. this is not rewarding hamas. i cannot imagine the international community with that hamas continue as a political party. it is a terror group. it is a pathway to real security for israel. that is the way, a responsible palestinian government in charge, that is the way the gaza -- all of the weapons in gaza can be removed. there can be hope, opportunity, for the palestinian people who will not attack israel if they really feel that their rights are respected. i think that is the right call. meanwhile, humanitarian aid has got to get in there. these predictions of mass starvation in a month are

devastating. >> you had president bidelast week's pressing israeli prime minister netanyahu discount on the israeli military operation in gaza. dressing he is not in it for a year of war. what pressure point of the u.s. have at its disposal. >> well i was just in davos, and israel was representing there to. the president was there and made a very forceful case for why israelis fear for their security. i get, that but i think the right answer, as i said, as a path towards two states. the administration and bill burns who just gone over again, the qataris are dealing with the neighborhood. the semi arab states on a plan which has been proposed by the saudis and others in which the saudi foreign minister defended last week in two to bark about 32 states. what has to change their has to be some receptivity in israel. if there is a negotiation for return of the hostages -- >> more of the citizens. >> i mean the government more

than the citizens. >> because the government has been very -- prime minister netanyahu himself has used very disturbing language to speak about the palestinian -- >> i agree. and two state solution against his years in power. i think they're 16 years in power. i think that the government, i think there is a reasonable chance that some members of the government gantz and eisen caught could split from the coalition. that would require new elections. i think the prime minister might want to slow roll that but i think with enough pressure there could be a new election. he would stand for, it but then we will see if the israeli people really want this approach or, in my view, approach that's a better guarantee for their security. i do get it that they're worried about security, i also get it that they're not going to get there with this approach to gaza. >> and we have to go, but very quickly, defense ukraine's gonna get the funding that they

need? >> they desperately need it. i am for using the funds that we have seized, the russian assets for this. they're mostly intelligent banks. belgium is where nato is situated, and if we released an amount of those funds, both the portion and u.s. banks, about five billion, a huge portion in belgium, it would be crucial. let's understand that as we're talking about u.s. politics, the ukrainians are on the border dying for our freedom. we want to larger war in europe that one of us because of article five of nato? or do we want to let them lose in a cool way after we pledge our support, now. >> former congresswoman james harman, thank you very much for joining us today. next, another trump ally since the prince time and what the case tells us about executive privilege and the trump white house. be sure to follow our show across social media and our handle everywhere is at the weekend msnbc.

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what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. this week, another trump associate was sentenced to prison. a judge gave the former advisor peter navarro a four month prison sentence for refusing to testify to congress for the january six committee's investigation. during the proceedings, a u.s. district judge told navarro that the words executive privilege are not a magical

incantation or a get out of jail free card. or it doesn't apply. apparently, peter navarro, he was convicted in september and two counts for refusing to testify and provide documents to the house select committee. there was investigating january six. he appealed the conviction. it seems to me that he missed around and found out to that. >> this is their defining ethos, right? but the rules do not applied them. i thought it was so remarkable in the e. jean carroll case that you had one of the attorneys saying that this trial is also about something much more profound. the rules that apply to everyone else, do you, to me, to miss carroll, whether they also apply to donald trump. that is a question you have return to over and over again as a returns to all of donald trump's legal woes. >> yeah, and the reality of it is, you found out. you found out, he found out, and the reality for him and many others's, particularly if they stand on this claim that there is no due process, this is a witch hunt and all of that,

the reality of it is that the system worked, and it's held navarro as it is holding others accountable, and that is the bottom line. trump, you are next, right? that is the crosshair that you find yourself and. the same reality that peter navarro is in right now will be coming to a courtroom near you. and so as the e. jean carroll case has shown us, as this decision has shown us, all of the noise that you are hearing on the far right propagated and promoted by republican elected officials in many instances, at least stefanik, is the kickoff of noise that the system is rigged against trump. trump is, like everybody else -- treat them like they treat everybody else. you have a -- in court? put his butt behind in the huskers.

>> the judge in peter navarro's case made that point out that no one is above the law, and he said quote, you are not a victim. this is what the judge told him. he said that you are not the abject of a political prosecution. you have received every process you are due. it strikes me, peter navarro, adonai weisselberg, michael cohen, creams michael cohen, we hope to see you soon. roger stone, even though he had a sentence commuted. paul manafort, who was part, and they're also answer prism. all of these men around donald trump just keep going to jail. >> but here's the important part about that. all this men around donald trump have gone to jail on the testimony of fellow republicans. so this idea that this witch hunt is being propagated and persecuted and pushed by the biden white house is bunk. the justice department happens to be at the time of the biden administration, but the folks testifying in court? they're all republicans.

so there is that. >> and that is on mary had a little lamb, at the young people say. folks, another hour of the weekend straight ahead. but go anywhere. house democratic leader hakeem jeffries will join the table and we will discuss republicans failure to accomplish anything since taking over the house and why they are standing in the way of a potential deal on immigration. that is coming up after a short break. don't go anywhere. nywhere. with olay hyaluronic body wash 95% of women had visibly-better skin. and my skin is so much more moisturized. see the difference with olay. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein,

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