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weekend. the 119 congress is the least productive in decades. that could cost republicans big come this november. some of them already acknowledging that they had the embarrassment of not having nothing to run on, and a monmouth university poll released last month found only 17% of americans approve of the job congress is doing. this is as crucial issues like taxation, the border, ukraine aid, and government funding remain unresolved. joining us now to discuss it all is the house democratic leader congressman hakeem jeffries of new york. welcome to you, sir, thank you for being here. this is truly one of the most unproductive congresses in decades. what is your take here on the

current border fight that is currently happening on funding? this is about ukraine aid at the end of the day, but donald trump seems to be scuttling any potential for a deal that is going to come together. >> this is a do nothing republican congress of epic proportions, and what we have seen is that the one set of things that they have pedal consistently, chaos, dysfunction, extremism, and they've come into this new year, and the democrats, we've vindicated. we are ready to find bipartisan common ground on any issue as long as it will improve the lives of the american people or address issues of significance such as our national security interests abroad, or border security here at home. unfortunately, republicans continue to put politics over people and as i think not surprising we have decided that they're going to bend the knee to donald trump's whims. it appears as it relates to the

border security issue. >> so congressman, let's set some states here. if the house has not been able to pass ukraine aid, what does that mean then both for ukraine and for the fight for global democracy? >> well the fight between ukraine and russia is not just about a territorial dispute, of course, although russia's aggressive incursion into ukraine is a complete violation of international law, but this is a fight between democracy and autocracy, a fight between freedom and tyranny, a fight between truth and propaganda, and ukraine, the united states of america, the free world should stand on the side of democracy. as what we have been doing in supporting the ukrainian war effort. if we allow the ukrainian war effort to falter, which by the way has been very successful, winning 300,000 casualties inflicted on the russian military, almost 80% of the regular russian military has been wiped out, with medicine go american life put at risk in

terms of ukraine. and so i think that if we allow ukraine to falter because we don't continue our support then we are likely in the fight with russia because of our nato article five obligations, because we know putin will stop in ukraine. he will likely invite a nato ally, and no american troops are in europe. that is something we should avoid. >> but that road to ukraine funding, that road to ukraine's example of democracy and democratic values and principles being defended by nato in the united states starts here on the question of our border and the border policy and control. speak if you could to this idea that republicans seem to have sort of warped this conversation around ukraine and

the border in such a way that mitch mcconnell,as at one time a very firm advocate for both of these ideas, and in fact back to the current bill that is in the senate strongly, just recently in a meeting seemed to backpedal, soft in his position. how does the administration, how do you as leader in the house re-imagine this conversation to get mcconnell back home on the range, if you will, to getting this thing done, because it needs to get done, in which case you saw the immigration problem because this bill is a good voter bill. it's a strong border before republicans out there who are second guessing, it it is. in the validity of supporting ukraine's upheld. >> well about a week and a half ago, president biden convened a meeting at the white house with all of the legislative leaders from the house and the senate,

the people on the intel committee, the leadership as well as foreign affairs and armed services, and in that meeting, i think both the republican leaders and all of my republican colleagues were very clear. they express before the president and all of us that they knew that there was an urgent need for us to continue to support the ukrainian war effort because it is in america's national security interest. and at the same time, had been publicly complaining about the border issue for years. there certainly is a challenge at the border that we need to address. we should do it in a comprehensive way, we should do it in a bipartisan way, we should do it in a manner that is consistent with our values but as a nation of immigrants and a nation anchored in the rule of law. now the senate democrats have been working in good faith along with the administration to try to arrive at an agreement. it is my hope that momentum will continue. we will have to evaluate the ultimate product, but politics should not get in the way here.

this is why the american people are often disappointed in our institutions. we are going to continue to put people over politics. hopefully our republican colleagues will do the same. >> you think that chuck schumer, senate democrats should just put the bill on the floor and make their republican colleagues take a upper down vote on it? >> far be it for house member to tell us didn't member what to do. [laughter] you didn't walk into that, when did you? and that is my whole state college as well. but i have full faith in confidence in the senate democrats to figure out the right path forward, and have a certain point, we are going to have to publicly call the question of our republican colleagues in a variety of ways when it comes to doing what is right for america's national security interests and for fixing a broken immigration system. or, we are just going to have to make it clear that republicans have no interest in

dealing with the border issue. they would rather try to weaponize it for political purposes. and i think ultimately that is something that the american people will reject. >> i have one follow-up question. you know, there is, and i used to work on the migration when i worked at the white house, the trump administration completely gutted the infrastructure as it relates to how we facilitate people coming into this country via the southern border. and what the president said that he would do on friday, he pu the statement out. he promised to shut the border down if crossings overwhelmed the border if congress passed this bipartisan immigration legislation. seeking asylum is right in this country. i saw that statement and there are a number of people who said, oh, this sounds like something from another era. like is that something that you and the house democrats support, the shooting down of the border? >> what i would have to understand the context within which the president is speaking based on whatever authority he

may be given. the president of course i believe will always do what he believes is in the best interests of the american people, consistent with the fact that america is a safe haven for people who are fleeing oppression and persecution, but it has to be managed in a reasonable way, and clearly the system is being overwhelmed right now. i think people on all sides, on the democratic, within the democratic family in coalition, acknowledge that, but figuring out the path forward so that it is consistent with who we are as america, but decisively addresses the clear challenges. in the fact that you have people taking dangerous perilous journeys because they are fully horrific conditions. how do we improve the conditions throughout the region in these other countries so that people don't feel compelled to have to run for their lives literally? >> but that butts up against

the political reality here at home. i appreciate symone's concern about what the president said, but the president is right. you have to shut down the border at this point. a lot of americans feel that way. >> so they stay in mexico? >> no, the question is exactly what i think hakim said, it is finding that balance. this bill apparently does that, which is why i think you see so many democrats and republicans moving towards it as a potential solution because it recognizes that desire to flee oppression, but also to control the access points. and so the question politically is, how do you have that conversation in a much more polarized political environment today to help people understand, this bill does exactly what you wanted to do? it touches that sweet spot of allowing those to come who are fleeing, as i said, tough life at home, but also recognizes

that this idea in the american people's mind of an open border, it has to end, and this administration is ending. that >> what we are going to evaluate the bill once it is in the public domain to make sure it strikes that right balance, and we are going to have to have a family conversation on our side about that. >> yes you will! [laughter] >> however, we have got many different people who have worked for a long time on the house side on this issue who want to make sure that we are doing the right thing by the american people consistent with our values and the fact that we are nation anchored in the rule of law. one of the things i think that will continue to be important is for us to decisively meet the other challenges of the american people, right? to fight for lower costs and better paying jobs and safer communities, to improve the quality of life, to address these issues of making sure that the middle class has a positive way forward and doesn't move backward. i think what president biden has done it, we continue to see that significant progress has

been made on this economic issues, and he will continue to articulate a vision forward for how to build upon that progress, build upon lowering the price of insulin to $35 a month, bringing domestic manufacturing jobs back home to the night states for america through the chips and science act, clean water never community. i think the more that we can show the american people that we are also working on these other challenges, it will create the space to be able to address some of these other issues like national security and the border. issu>> we'll talk about the famy conversation that you're going to have, because as you, know other members every caucus are not happy with this legislation, they're not happy with the -- authority for the president. they're not happy with increasing expulsion authority, and i think that there is this long larger question of, everything republicans are focused on has to do with enforcement. is there any appetite within your own caucus to counter propose something the deals with the 11 million people who call this country home, who sit with us in our churches, in our places of worship, who go to school with our kids?

for congressman who has passed the bipartisan, the dream act, is there any sense that there is a way that can be done for folks in the interior? >> that's a great question, and i think there is widespread consensus on our side that we should be putting forward ideas to comprehensively meet the challenges in this space. the dream and promise act or something that prior congress is under the leadership of speaker pelosi have passed twice. it has gotten some bipartisan support. the farmworker modernization act is another way forward. it has gotten some bipartisan support in the house. doing something about our gps system, important. i think a lot of people on our side also believe that investing in technology and additional personnel, there are things that can be done the president biden has said to republicans that we should do in terms of additional resources, and we have seen republicans rejected it. we have a broken immigration

system. it should be fixed in a comprehensive, bipartisan, and forward-looking way, and i do hope that we can get to that conversation sooner rather than later. >> leader jeffries is not going anywhere. after the break, the evidence president biden is close to pulling off something many economists were not expecting a year ago, it economic soft landing. and later, the massive red flags flying for donald trump after his performance in new hampshire. this is the weekend. the weekend. ou choose the right amounts without over or under investing. so you can feel confident in your financial choices. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected. ♪ before planning the wedding your bad hip was really acting up. then, you heard about mako

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money talks, very lively

this week. the calmest reporting that in the last quarter of 2023, u.s. economy exceeded expectations, growing at a 3.3% pace and avoiding a recession experts was that was inevitable. so president biden and congressional democrats ready to run on what was once a major vulnerability for them? house democratic leader hakeem jeffries is back with us. i will say, my colleague symone always reminds me that it's too economist or said that that was going to happen. the question i imagine as you move into november's, can congressional democrats when voters them believe that they have an economy that is working for them? >> it is important for us to be able to continue to articulate a forward-looking message of working hard to bring about an economy that lifts up every day americans, left of the middle class, lives of all of those who aspire to be part of the middle class, and ensures that

everybody in every single code has a fair shot at the american dream. we believe that when you work hard in america, play by the rules, you should be able to provide a comfortable living for yourself, for your family, educate your children, purchased the home. one day retire with grace and dignity. we i think are deeply committed to making sure that in the next four years, we help bring that about. president biden has this track record of success with significant progress having been made. wages are up, gas prices are them. the stock market is up, inflationary pressure is down. small businesses are being created at record numbers, and more than 14 million good paying jobs have been brought about during the biden economy. that is a tremendous foundation to continue to build upon, but we know that elections are not about the past, air about the future. so it will be important continue to say over the next few years, here is our vision for continuing the decisive

economic progress that has been made so that it is genuinely felt by every single american. it is genuinely >> as you think the conversation needs to be accessible, and what you just said sounds very accessible to me. you're at a breakfast on friday for the association for better new york. you talked about freedom and that you believe that the freedom angle on abortion is also going to be something beneficial to democrats from the top of the ticket all the way down to say legislative races this november. my former colleagues have been very not happy with me about my shade for bidenomics. i did not hear you mention the term bidenomics. you just laid out all of the progress that was made, but it has not necessarily connected. so it is abortion a way to lean into reproductive freedom, what the future looks like, and then slip those kind of things in their? because now, it's basically february, and york it's been the next couple of months trying to educate people on

what has happened, to pull, them to believe themselves, or not? >> there will be a whole host of issues that i think are going to be on the ballot in november. certainly at the top of that list, reproductive freedom is going to be on the ballot. the economy of course as we talked about on the ballot. social security and medicare on the ballot. we want to strengthen and protect social security. my republican colleagues want to end it, as we know it. gun safety will be on the ballot because we want to make progress on this issue, not flood our classrooms with weapons of war by doing nothing. and of course democracy will be on the ballot. but as you pointed out, symone, if you think about the issue of reproductive freedom, there is a clear difference between what we as democrats believe in, and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. we believe in a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions, period, full stop. it is a decision that should be between a woman, a doctor, her family, her faith, but

certainly not right-wing extreme politicians trying to intercede. our republican colleagues of the view that they want a nationwide abortion ban. they want to criminalize abortion care. they basically want to bring about a regime of government mandated pregnancies. and so on a issue with such a clear distinction, we are going to defend freedom. the other side is clearly opposed to it, and i think that is going to be a decisive issue. >> but the driver though is the pocketbook for people. abortion clearly is going to be important for a lot of folks, but with the polls also show is that the economy is still a driver. 3.3% growth announced this past week, that is good, it is a good narrative for the administration. the administration also, as axios reported, announced five billion dollars in new infrastructure projects across the country. that is good. talk a little bit about how

that narrative is, you make that narrative, to symone's point, closer to home. it is the kitchen table. infrastructure is a kitchen table conversation. i just had to replace the -- my car because of the pothole that is there, but now i will have to because the roads have been fixed. so make that conversation for our viewers out there who are sitting there thinking, i hear all of that, but at the end of the day, you know, i still have to pay bills. i soft make ends meet, and this may be good because my dad got a job on a construction project. >> you, know i think our track record of accomplishment is incredibly important in that it should validate that we need what we say, you say what we mean. and so when we talk about the american rescue plan, saving the economy from a deep recession, from a once in a century pandemic, putting shots in arms, money in pockets, kids back in school, allowing the

american economy to emerge as the strongest in the world. the infrastructure investment in jobs act, millions of good paying jobs, in every single community. urban america, rural america, suburban america, small town america, and of course the chips and science act brings domestic manufacturing jobs, not jobs going into the direction, and doing things like health care costs, and certainly the cost of prescription drugs. we should cite that track record of accomplishment not to say to the american people, reward us, but to say trust us. we say what we mean and we mean what we say. and we are going to continue to put people over politics and decisively work to build a healthy economy. now we have to then connect that with a forward-looking vision because elections, as we talked about, are about the future, not the past. and the things that we want to do. strengthening the child tax credit, which helps middle class families, working families, and low income family.

leaning into the creation preservation of affordable housing, because housing is a big issue all across america. and certainly continue the work of lower health care costs and not to my republican colleagues want to do, which is to detonate the affordable care act, blow it up, which is going to eliminate protections for more than 100 million americans with pre-existing conditions and cause the health care costs to skyrocket. and so i think there are specific issues that you will see us as house democrats, the senate presumably, and certainly president biden articulate with precision that are continued to -- design to continue to make life better for the american people. >> all right, house democratic leader hakeem jeffries, thank you so much for coming to the table man, it's a real pleasure. >> congratulations on the show. >> absolutely. we will be right back, folks. and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma.

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the weekend. well that was fun, i enjoyed the conversation with hakeem, because we covered a lot of ground there, but i'm really curious as to your take on what he said, particularly around the internal pressures between the house and the senate to get this immigration bill done. you know, the leader seems to be really trying to get that, the senate wants to, but there are some roadblocks. >> i was struck by two things. we won, it's very clear to me that there is not final bill text. there's not final bill tech that has been speculated wildly. i'm sure that the leader has seen something, but he knows that we will have to have a family conversation when we see final text, when it is in the public domain, where things come down. those are things that say that they're still poised to be negotiated. the second thing is, i mean i didn't expect the democratic leader of the house to give advice to the senate, but --

>> you call that, as a matter of fact. >> but he said there's going to become a time when our republican friends and colleagues are going to have to get on the record. >> and just have to deal with the fact, that as you point out, there are some aspects of this immigration bill that will wrangle the democratic colleagues, members of the democratic caucus. >> we will be talking with them tomorrow about this. they will be fractures in this caucus, but the light is not on his caucus right now. the light is shining very bright mike johnson's caucus because they are the ones who are hair on fire going down to the border and making this their central issue. they have a deal that, again, immigration advocates are not happy with. that is the title that it is a deal that mike johnson in his conservative allies should then take. they should take that deal if it is been criticized by the left. the fact you have donald trump for it in and at the last minute spoiling their plans is the big tell both about who has power in that party, and what

actually matters to donald trump in the u.s. mexico border. >> this is chaos. the idea that donald trump supposed to put his fingers on that scale because it benefits him. he wants it to benefit him just as he said publicly. yeah, i love to see this 3.3% growth in the economy just tank, which kills the middle class 401k and retirement plans and school budgets. the reality is still, i'm pretty sure what you're saying about the focus being on the republicans in one sense, but it really is on the administration which has, in a very interesting way, cobble together a way that is difficult for a lot of his base to stomach. but also one where the administration is prepared to move on by declaring, and ready to shut down the border. >> i was struck by his response

there. i need to understand the context. i think leader jeffries is a very skilled leader of his caucus, and i think it stands and direct contrast to what we've seen from speaker mike johnson and frankly speaker mccarthy who is a very fractured caucus in the republican house conference, and is really difficult to keep all those folks together. sometimes the speaker, whether speaker mccarthy or speaker johnson says one thing in one room to some people, another thing in another room to other people. i thought leader jeffries really threaded the needle here, and again, we have not seen bill text, there is not bill text. and so i think it is very telling that they're in a deep bill points out there, and so they know how contentious this is, but i do think that the house senate democrats who just put the bill on the floor. >> i agree with, that i think they should. >> can i make a point about -- i was really struck by the reward, not the reward, but trust argument the jeffrey

smith when we started talking about the economy in 2024, and i think that is one of the better friends that i have heard from democrats that are going to be on the ballot this year. >> the argument? >> the argument he said in terms of the economy, talking about all the things they had gotten done in this congress, all of the bills that they had, past and what that means for people's lives. he said that it is import to talk about it not because we want you to reward us, but to trust us about what we will do going forward. that strong language, and he never mentioned bidenomics. >> so it's the argument for a second term. it is a argument for the differential in a very slim majority, which let's say, he understands better than anybody else. and that does of course have to be a part of the biden reelection argument to the american people. this was a down payment, right? we want to make good on this down payment by doing. >> and, look i've been saying this for a long time, and it's tough and absolute political sense to be a republican sort of touting things that

democrats -- >> you just have to be a republican. >> yeah, period, end of sentence. but the reality of it is that there is a lot of good but this administration can't really lay out in front of the country, and the interesting thing for me to watch is how much now the public is going to move in that space by virtue of the things begin to touch them. we've already seen some of the numbers and polling, and showing that americans feel little bit better about things because infrastructure projects, and the inflation programs are working, the anti inflation programs. so there's a lot of good stuff that's happening. another question is to the leaders point, how do we negatively work for that, and how do we asked him about that kitchen table conversation, because that's really where i think they win the day? >> and republicans are publicly music they have nothing to worry about. >> up next, nikki haley is already in the e. jean carroll

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hosting a rally in south carolina tonight. she mexico's to voters that she is sharpening her attacks on donald trump. just hours after the e. jean carroll verdict, she posted online quote, trump wants to be the presumptive republican

nominee, and we're talking about 83 point $3 million in damages. so whether it's calling women file names or threatening to blacklist a least owners, donald trump's attention is focused everywhere but the general election. joining us now, washington post opinion editor in msnbc political analyst lexi macfarlane. she may be sharpening the attacks, lexi, but it feels a little late. >> it feels a little late, that she has started earlier, she definitely wouldn't have seen this far. she's made it clear, she's knowing the maga voters and looking towards those independents and moderates. but the question, is why aren't you running more of a general election strategy or even like a no labels type strategy that a republican primary strategy while you are still in this thing against donald trump? >> where are those independent and voters except in new hampshire? that makes no sense to me at this point. i mean, i get the bravado, i like it, but six weeks ago, six

months ago, i mean, we make a conscious decision, and i've said this at the beginning of this primary season, you got to go into this thing with an idea of losing the primary in order to win the general election. and to show the voters that you're the reason why they need to be in this fight with you, you with them. that case has never been made, and donald trump knew that the people on that stage would make that case. >> right, and again, i think nikki haley, the question for her sort of is not just what she's doing now, but is it in play for the future of the republican party? democrats talk so much, and symone, you talked about this a lot. we care about democracy. you cannot have a healthy democracy without healthy, functioning republican party. >> there's at least two parties here. one of them is looking a little iffy. >> you make that point often on tv. jim robinson just wrote this for a post opinions, and i think that people forget that.

and so sometimes when you're thinking about the horse race you're like yes, why isn't she running, you're going to lose the trump. i like to think that she is fighting for this idea that you talk about, this future republican party they could look totally different than what -- we know now. >> but if she is, and christian, i call christian welker, has nikki haley on meet the press tomorrow. why is nikki haley and willing to say that she -- that don trump is not fit for office? on the day of the new hampshire primary she was asked if she thought she was fit, pressed him alone at work, and you say yes she was fit, and the kind of move off of it? how that affects the future? he>> and i put them on that, because i want you to take a listen to the sound of nikki haley on fox news after the e. jean carroll verdict, and i want to squeeze that into this conversation. take a listen. >> let's look at the last 48 hours, they are now. first of all, you had election night, trump gets on stage, he throws an absolute temper tantrum talking about revenge, but he says nothing about the

american people. then he goes and says that he is going to ban anyone from maga that don't leads to me. think about that, that is a president that is supposed to serve every person in america, and you are deciding that you are going to have a club and actually banned people from being in and out of your club? >> symone's question -- >> again, what, what, what, what, what is going on? the strategist in me is like, what is happening? to these people want to win an election? what is going on? what was that, what was the clip? >> the unending fealty to donald trump even when you're trying to run against him. i mean, look, we can get into the minds of people we will simply never think like. i wish i could understand it better. you hear it from folks like mitch mcconnell, to. they can't even say that the most electable candidates they have like herschel walker in 2022 are not electable candidates because they are hoping and praying that somehow voters will look away from the drama and find that one redeeming quality or the one

thing about that person the trump or whoever that makes them feel good and think, well maybe we will get more of that in the future. >> you raise the question, and i think it's an interesting one, and it may give some insight as to why we see now the no labels effort, you see some of the other efforts out there. you talk about our system is designed for a viable two parties to operate, and one of them is clearly not operating at that caliber. what is your reporting showing, or what are you picking up in newsrooms that you're talking to about this third-party effort i. one, politically how is it shaping up at this point, and two, how is it resonating with the american people? are they kind of leaning, like okay, maybe this time we will do ross perot, but we will do it instead of 17 points, we will do it 34 points better. >> i mean look, i think that there is definitely a desire for a third party or at least a third party option. a viable third party option.

more than ever the cycle. that is not many third-party a sudden going to emerge. i did talk to some people who sort of thing like, well, if there is a mass vote for this third party candidate, then we will end up with a two party system. one of the two parties that we have will be replaced by this no label situation, right? i don't know that even that will get close to the reality that we have, but what you look at focus groups, when you look at polling, when you talk to voters, when you go to rallies, there is an interest in people who we would otherwise dismiss as not being viable candidates. i mean, marianne williamson still has a consistency online and otherwise. people are looking to rfk junior, and they're hearing things that are different than the things that we pick up on and we talk about. the polls show tons of people don't want biden, they want trump to be the nominee. that doesn't mean they don't want any options, or they want anything, and they're given so many. the last thing that i will say is that i can't get on instagram or social media without seeing clips of joe manchin. he was in south carolina, he's in georgia today, or was there

yesterday. clearly, he is ramping up this desire to be a martin national figure and to give people an alternative that he sees that they want. we just don't quite know yet who that alternative is and what they look like. does it look like joe manchin? does it look like nikki haley? does it look like some of the we don't even know? yet >> i would just quote charles blow, new york times opinion columnist. he said that trump won't go away, he will just have to be defeated, and haley can't defeat him because she has no answer for the central problem. she is -- a group of voters who are religiously devoted to him. i don't know if joe -- exactly, third-party seems to just benefit trump. but you know what, we have to ask these third-party people what they're doing. >> we will, alexi mccammond, you are going to stick around with us because we have a lot more that we want to talk to about. likewise, some of those experts out there think that donald trump is actually losing the long game despite winning big in iowa and new hampshire. yeah, we are going to talk about here on the weekend. on the weekend. ay series footlong. except when you add a new footlong sidekick. like the ultimate bmt with the new footlong pretzel.

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gop nomination is underlining donald trump's weaknesses among independent voters and even some republicans. in a new ad, here is how haley's camp is painting trump in the general election. >> what's resonating is trump's unelectable. >> it really does look like we are going to see biden beat trump again. >> he is who joe biden wants to run against. joe biden is chomping at the bit to run against donald trump because he thinks he can beat him again. >> the sort of people realize that trump is the nominee, the better it is for joe biden. >> part of it is the electability issue. >> the exhibition is back with us, and here's the part that i find interesting real quick on this. and they were to run this ad right now, and this is all about the general election. so if you are running this ad now and you're at the beginning

of a republican primary with south carolina, nevada, and super tuesday coming up, why couldn't you run that ad a while ago to sort of set up the narrative? >> yes, where was this added six months ago? and then also, i continue to believe that their governor south carolina lacks the inspiration needed. voters want inspiration, and she is getting into a lot of process arguments. >> i think we saw chris christie flame out pretty quickly. i think people were most annoyed of his candidacy. he was getting booed at republican events he went to. it was watching, that donors were backing her from the left in the right in the middle. they saw something in her in the strategy that she had employed from the beginning, and she wasn't going to deviate from that. now there's a little bit more room, and now there is a proper two person race, she has that room to go after trump's little bit more. the fact -- is >> it's the same gop electorate. >> and also, the majority that gop electric by the way is

convinced that trump actually won the election in 2020. so they're like, he is electable. >> let's speak to that point, because there is an interesting sound from liz cheney. she was on pod save america talking about the very specific swing states where this is going to matter. take a listen. >> ultimately, this election is going to be won or lost as they always are in a handful of swing states, and those happened to be the states where donald trump attempted to nullify the votes, and millions of those voters in 2020. he is going to have to go into the states and make the case that those people ought to entrust him with power and with defending and protecting their vote. >> i think that is interesting, because right now there is a macro argument about democracy that the biden campaign is making, but in some ways, that is a rehearsal for them to be able to distill that argument in states where they can say, you lived this. you had this man tried to take away votes that you rightfully cast. do you really want to do this again? >> right, and i think that's

really where liz is trying to go with this. this battle, this fight is going to boil down to just a real small number of states, and a lot of those -- those states are going to pay a pivotal role in drying out that electorate in a way that democracy is on the ballot, yes, but more so it speaks to, when we're talking about the two party system, we're really talking about the two party system and how it all kind of comes together for the american people. i just don't see the narrative for nikki haley at this point, which i will be very interested to see how -- deals with this tomorrow on meet the press, talks about beyond the process argument, right? it really gets into this idea of, how are you going to win this election? >> how are you going to win delegates? >> how are you going to win the delegates? how do you hold this base such as it is and add on to it? yeah, you have new hampshire's right to be on board with you,

but that is not the rest of your republican primary. how do you pull all that together in order to set up a general election? are you prepared to lose the rest of this primary in order to become the nominee of the party. >> i think in some ways, a win for kayleigh is donald trump's eventual loss, and by staying in this primary longer, she's not only delaying the time by which he becomes the official nominee, but she is reminding people, from a republicans perspective, everything that we are talking about. look at how unelectable he is, look at the losses we've suffolk, look at the election denialism that is continued. you guys had adrienne fontes on earlier from arizona, the secretary of state. he was one of many examples. arizona, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, where secretaries of state, attorney generals, governors, democratic candidates won up and down the ticket in those states because they're running against trump election deniers who were literally proposing changing the laws in those states so that they and trump could have

control over the election results and 2024. voters, those voters who are going to haley now, independents and moderates, they are the reason there's election deniers don't have a power right now. and so again, that is kind of a general election play, but it also helps remind the same folks, you should not vote for trump again. haiti's voters are going to have a big decision in the end. vote for trump, biden, or stay home. >> they well, there you go. i alexi mccammond, thank you so much. coming up on velshi, ali will talk to secretary of energy jennifer granholm about president biden's decision to delay the approval of several natural gas export projects. that is ahead at the top of the hour. hour e enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. bombas makes absurdly comfortable underwear. made to move with you, not on you. because your basic things should be your best things.

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with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. that does it for the weekend saturday morning. be sure to file the show on social media at the weekend msnbc, and please make sure you all come up tomorrow, because we will be speaking with the secretary of health and human services, javier becerra as a record number of americans have signed up for coverage under the affordable care act, and so much more that is tomorrow starting 80 am eastern only on msnbc. velshi starts right now. hey, ali, good to see you. how is jennifer granholm. what are you talking? about >> which talking about the idea that the federal government has decided to put a pause on the liquefied natural gas