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so when minds grow, opportuni♪ ♪s follow. ♪ ♪ coming back on the second hour of a man, how trump is already calling the shots for the republican party while on the campaign trail. and how he's trying to capitalize on a fani willis scandal to get himself off the hook for election interference. plus, a super sized addition of worst of the week, who is going to hang their head in shame tonight? and a look overseas to a doctor fighting to save patients at the last remaining major hospital inside gaza. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's do it.

this, week donald trump finally reclaim total control of the republican party. now, some, perhaps, many would argue this was inevitable, that america's grand old party has become nothing more than a vicious stick cult of personality. but let's not forget, red wine elites tried even halfheartedly to exile the tribes impeached four times invited former president to the political wildness. from late 2022 through the first half of 2023, fox news imposed a soft ban on trump and his surrogates. we even learn from the dominion voting systems defamation lawsuit that rupert murdoch reportedly told an aide to, quote, make trump a non-person after january the 6th. and after there were the hundreds of millions of dollars conservative donors contributed to the ron desantis and, you

know, rick scott, and vivek ramaswamy, and nikki haley prary campaigns in the hopes that they would emerge as the front runners. but thtruth is it was too little too late. on, tuesday trump posted to a double digit triumph in new hampshire making him the only non incumbent republican candidate in modern political history to win both iowa and new hampshire. that dominant performance was only the first manifestation of trump reasserting his vise-like grip over gop voters and lawmakers this week. for months now, a bipartisan group of senators working -- have been working on a deal described as a once in a generation opportunity for conservative border security bill. in fact, in recent days, the hinted that they are very close tohis landmark compromise. or at least, they were, until donald trump picked up hi phone and reached out to his allies on capitol hill. as the new york times reports, the former presidents opposition has all been killed

the prospects of a bipartisan border deal, reflecting how his influence in congress has grown as he has all that secure the republican nomination. and then there is the most disturbing development this week. trump's efforts to form what can really only be described as a shadow military as he weighed in on the escalating border standoff between the federal government and texas, and called on all willing states to deploy their national guard forces to eagle pass in a direct challenge to both the supreme court and president biden. maybe the only thing more distressing than the call to arms for president trump itself is the fact that at least ten republican governors have already answered it and sent troops to the border. if republican presidential candidate trump is employing autocratic power plays like this now as a candidate, imagine what he is willing to do as commander-in-chief? let's continue this conversation out with barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst.

former u.s. attorney in michigan and law professor at the university of michigan law school. kurt bardella, but democratic strategist, la times contributor, and former house oversight committee spokesperson for republicans. and stuart stevens, senior adviser to the lincoln project and former chief strategist for rodney's 2012 campaign. it's great to have all three of you with us. stuart, i'll start with you. you've been in meshed and republican politics for literally decades. you know the party inside out and principal actors. following january the 6th, it's safe to say that trump's return to the top of the gop was unlikely in the immediate aftermath but eventually became inevitable. are you surprised by how he has completely taken over the party in the span of a year and a half, two years or so? you, know i have a going out of business, i've no optimism about the republican party. so i can't really say i'm surprised. i think probably eight a dog

was cast on this one day voted not to impeach donald trump after he incited a mob to come into the workplace and try to kill them. if you're not gonna hold somebody responsible for that, what else -- are you going to hold them responsible for? and every opportunity that the party has had to get away from trump, they failed. and the only conclusion -- there is free wheel in this country, it's not destiny, they're doing what they want to do. the republican party is dominated by donald trump, because donald trump does best represent what the republican party wants to be. it's as simple as that, it's really not complicated. and all of this kind of anger and misogyny and racism that's coming out of trump, you have to say the party is comfortable with that. they've had alternatives. they have a candidate that has

been convicted -- found liable in the court of law for sexual abuse that the judge that could be classified as rape and they're okay with that. i don't know any conclusion to come to, but it's not a traditional american political party anymore. it's a painful thing for people like me that worked a lot in this party. it's an autocratic movement. and there's only one normal democratic party in america and that's the democratic party. >> reporter: to that point, when you think of republicans on january the 7th, mitch mcconnell saying trump was responsible for what happened today and that he should face whatever consequences from it, kevin mccarthy distance and self from it, but we went down to mar-a-lago i guess oh week or two weeks later to kiss the ring. why do you think that played out the way that it did given the fact that you had to think about seven republicans at the time who voted to impeach donald trump, they did it a handful more to get the conviction, and yet you look at the party today and say there is no semblance of never trumpers in the republican

party. i mean, what it tells me is they're all really cowards. we've seen time and time again, republicans in washington behind the scenes off the record, talk about -- the mode donald trump's existence, wishing they could do something to dispense them selves of the headaches that he calls. as all the things that this is january 6th, and all the things they said privately which would be revealed through various investigations and book writers. mitch mcconnell has recordings we talked about hoping that the impeachment proceeding would do the work for him, that democrats would do the heavy lifting so they would have to do any of, at that right there is the problem. republicans are waiting for other people, democrats, to do the work for them while attacking said democrats as that process unfolds. even though they were trained to get an outcome that republican secretly wanted. of course this is where we are at right now. when we are a leader, you're supposed to actually lead. not hide and coward and be afraid of your own voters. you're supposed to lead them to where you want them to go. republicans have stopped doing that a long time ago. i was going to say with the exception of mick romney, i was

not thinking of any other republican senator, senior senator, criticizing donald trump and said he doesn't bode long in this party. barbara, i want to switch to what we're seeing play out on the border and how they're paying off the standoff. as i mentioned, we have ten republican governors deploying national guard troops. legally speaking, what can and what should president biden do about what is unfolding between the national guard of these ten republican states -- republican led states, and the federal government? first, let's make it perfectly clear that what they're doing is lawless. the supreme court ruled against texas and said that it is purely the federal prerogative to deal with immigration issues. governor jim abbott in texas and the constitution to say that states may defend themselves if congress refuses to or subject them to an invasion. he's claiming that the migrant crisis on the border is an invasion. invasion means a military

action. it is not mean a humanitarian crisis. so what they are doing is completely lawless. the action that president biden in the federal government have available to them is what we saw during the civil rights movement in 1960s in the 1960s. after brown versus the board of education was decided, and people stood at school doors refusing to let black children. and the president then called up the national guard and sent them in to be escorts for the kids in the same way he could call find the pro--- military action to subdue those states. i'm sure no one wanted to come to that, i think it's more a political stunt than anything else, but the federal law prevails over immigration matters. and what they're doing now is lawless and dangerous. stuart, i'm a little bit surprised this has not gotten more attention this week. you certainly know the history of the politics of this country better than i do. have you ever seen anything like this? a figure like trump effectively calling on maga governors to

form a shadow military of the republican governor of oklahoma was on newsmax, literally yesterday, literally discussing civil war. yeah, i think the parallel with what barbara said is the civil rights movement. this is what george wallace said. there was a famous exchange between segregationist similes and adam perez who challenge then governor or a long -- called out the highway patrol. to which law responded iconic, like he said leander, that's great, what are you gonna do now the feds have the nuke? so i mean, there's really nothing new about this. the idea that the party of law in order is now saying the supreme court dominated our conservative said is not law, it's just extraordinary. and i think it really goes to -- i think i don't have a knee choice to talk -- was all a lie. because it's not a law & order

party anymore. the essence of law is to make laws that you don't agree with. otherwise, it's not law, it's just, okay, i can -- it's not like a cafeteria, i can take from, doesn't take from that. and you can't have a civil society that functions that way. so it's really a continuation of the attacks on all the pillars of civil society and republicans have done. attacking the justice department, attacking elections, attacking the courts. and the fatality of it is extraordinarily destabilizing and dangerous. all right, please don't go anywhere my panel, barbara, brian, steward, you are all sticking. around i won a squeeze in a quick break. but on a program, note the -- goes one-on-one with nikki haley as she vows to keep fighting trump for the gop nomination. and she will speak with alexandria ocasio-cortez with a potential rematch against trump. that is tomorrow, nine eastern on meet the press.

coming up next, donald trump's georgia election interference case and allegations out fulton county d.a. office fani willis -- what is a mean for the case and trump facing accountability? accountability? ♪ (no doubt i'll get through) ♪ ♪ (loving me is loving you) ♪ from centrum, the women's choice multivitamin brand. as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

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you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message donald trump in france have because this is who we are. their fingers crossed tonight hoping a scandal will derail accountability in the election interference case in fulton county, georgia. they want the case thrown out following accusations of

district attorney fani willis had a romantic relationship a special ecor eight and wait. the scandal has ripple effects outside trump's orbit. however, because th week georgia state senate voted 30 to 19 to create a committee to investigate d. wlis. that panel does have subpoena power. fulton county superior court judge, scott mcafee, sent a hearing for february 15th on the allegations. witnesses ordered to file a written response before that. but hearings and legal processes mean nothing to trump, nor to the conservative outlets, eager to pedal in this nonsense. let's get real here for a moment, if true, is this the best look for fani willis? having a relationship with the prosecutor? of course not. anyoneanay that. but it doesn't change the reality of what donald trump did anwh others did in georgia after the 2020 election. as a member of tonight's panel points, of fani willis's personal life does not take away her ability to build a strong legal case against trump. robert mcquade is back with

kurt bardella and stewart stevens. barbara, ulcer with. you from perspective, on the revelation of the more damning revelations with credit card statements that weight purchase from cell for he and fani willis to take trips -- if these allegations are true, that she was engaged in a romantic relationship with, him that he paid, him and she herself benefited from these payments, she may very well have some serious ethical problems. and i am not going to defend her on those things. but that is a separate matter. from the or innocence of donald trump and his codefendants. those are very different things. she may have a conflict of interest as it relates to her ability to manage the office. that's her duty to the people of fulton county. that's different from whether she is a conflict of interest as to donald trump and his rights to a fair trial. so she may end up being sanctioned or having some problem professionally. but that is not going to result

in the dismissal of this case. and that's where the trump team makes a big leap of logic. that's bad for her professionally, it's bad for her politically. and i'm sure that trump will use it to undermine her credibility, but it should not result in any sort of dismiss love this case. norm eisen, someone we're all familiar with, he served as special counsel in the house's first impeachment against donald trump. he's a key fani willis ally. he said that nathan wade should step aside from the georgia case. what is your take on that in terms of how prosecutors on a case this big, this high profile, can be swapped out in this stage of the process? yes, i think what norm eisen says is there is not a conflict of interest that would require him to step aside. but he's become a distraction and for the good of the case, it would be best for him to leave. it's never a good thing to change personnel after a case is charged, while you're awaiting trial. but as i understand it, nathan

wades law here is more to manage the litigation, he's not the expert is to going to court to handle these matters. we have other lawyers who work is going to handle the case. he has to handle negotiations and the litigations. so it seems to me that they can find someone who can handle the work quite confidently and this might be in the interest of this case. curt, the political side of this case is trump will muddle the waters, he will make this about him being a victim. we've seen him do it before with the fbi investigation going after peter strzok and, at the, time these a page. basically turning them into these maga villains that they want to destroy the country, deep state, whatever. he's certainly going to exploit this to his advantage. of course he will, and, again it's from a pr standpoint, when you are prosecuting the former president of the united states for crimes against democracy, you might want to make sure you're not leaving any openings to cloud this. up to put any type of consternation on your integrity on your approach to this.

like, why would you give them that kind of opening? everyone here is right, it doesn't have any bearing on the actual facts of the case, the ability to acquire witnesses, testimony, and evidence. but this is just a colossally stupid mistake, frankly. it was entirely avoidable. i'll point out, it's very rich for donald trump and his allies to be pointing out like, improper relationship -- this guy just got $83 million for defaming someone, for sexually assaulting someone. is he really the someone who should be talking about inappropriate relationships? exactly, i don't think and knee of his llers care about that unfortunately. , steward fani willis has not denied the allegations, but she has defended wades qualification suggesting these claims are rooted in racism. trump's lawyers have now filed a complaint saying she should be removed from the case for stoking, quote, racial animus. give us your thoughts on this twist in this case. well, look, it's impossible for donald trump too not attack

any of these prosecutors. i think this is an unforced error that is incredible and i think they ought to take whatever steps they can to clean it up. of all these cases, when you look at that recording, this isn't the most -- i, mean it's just incredible. donald trump is on the phone saying that he just wants to find these votes. if you've never worked in a campaign, and you did something like this, it's extraordinary. the guilt and innocence in this seems pretty straightforward. i don't think a jury is going to care about this stuff. so, as soon as they can move to a cleaner sort of presentation of the facts, the better it will be. none of this has anything to do with the fact that donald trump lost an election and he tried to strong-arm people in georgia to rig the election in his favor. it's a simple as that. is it going to be that

simple, barbara, when you think that it's? stewart is laying it out simply, but will the people involved in this process, certainly not trump's lawyers because i want to get your thoughts on what you make of this complaint that trump's lawyers put forward -- to they have a strong argument or will it just simply be dismissed as clearly as stewart laid out? i don't think that motion to dismiss is going to go anywhere. i think with regard to ethics issues, they're going to be problems. i think, you, know injecting race into the matter, i suppose fani willis will point out that trump injected racism in the matter when he called her racist back -- michael roman of singling out nathan wade simply because of his race, but i think the response to that would be, it's not because of his receipts because we think you're having a relationship with him. so it's messy, i don't think that one is going to be the one that gets her into trouble. i think instead, if these facts are true, it will be the

undisclosed nature of a romantic relationship and payments that created conflict of interest. how much, kurt, how much damage has already been done in the public perception of? this is donald trump the luckiest man alive when he always has these reasons to kind of cast doubt about the legal process, enough to get viewers to say, hey, this is not right? i don't think people are really tuning in and following this stuff -- this guys got 91 indictments. nobody can keep straight how many court proceedings this guy is involved. and he jumps from manhattan to the issue with e. jean carroll, to this. i think ultimately, the facts of this case and how they are presented, and whether or not if this thing is televised, it's a stated, tonight in federal court. so that type of presentation i think will outweigh some of the theatrics rounded. i do think that if there's any mechanism for these characters to potentially recuse themselves and not make themselves the show and allow the evidence to stand on its own, that would probably be the best thing for the case. all, right barbara mcquade, thank you so much. always a pleasure. thank you for making time for. his current, steward, please

stick around, because we have to shut out who is the worst of the. week it's quite a, list -- for throwing everyone in there, find out after the break. real food. it's an idea whose time has come.

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so, here's to now. boost. it's time now for a super sized edition of worst of the week. we had enough appalling behavior for him to matchups. let's go right to my panel, kurt and stewart are back with me. first up, kurt will start with, you charlie clerk who capitalized on the debate d what initiatives with this quote, if, i see a black pilot, i'm gonna be like, boy, i hope he is qualified. and also this week, we had elon musk saying, quote, aspirationally that he is jewish during his image cleanup tour at the auschwitz concentration camp. this is his following his endorsement of antisemitic comments. out of these, to 20? about i think charlie wins this one. the looking at a black pilot,

questioning if he's qualified. and saying that out loud. i, mean elon musk because nuts and crazy, and hardly anything he says makes sense anyway. i've come to expect. that but saying that from charlie clark, good god, what did you just -- put your white hood on and reveal yourself for what appears to be the person you really are. stuart, between these two, between charlie kirk and elon musk, who is the worst of the week? after go with kirk. charlie kirk who, college republicans who never graduated from college said it. all i would be worried if i were on the plane and kirk were flying. trump can argue has not made people more racist, but he's giving people permission to be racist. look, these are people -- someone like charlie kirk should not be accepted into any sort of civil party.

he shouldn't have anything to do with him. they should toss them out like they tossed out josh portion in the 60s. he is like a full fledged member of the republican party. he is in fund-raisers, people praise him. people covered being on the stage with him. republicans want him at their events. they want him at their venues and speaking to their crowds. it's crazy. you know? yeah, i think it says it all about where the party is now. yeah, sadly. let's talk about the second round of, this and that is tim scott. you know, he was a guy who was once passionately campaigning against donald trump. this week though, some very bizarre and enthusiastic praise for the former president. watch. it's a shame, it's a shame. oh no. i just love you. that's why he's a good politician. the part of that soundbite before his when donald trump says, you must really hate nikki haley to whh tim scott says, i don't hate h, and

then you see he says, i really love you. so tim scott is going up agains nancy mace, begging r staff during the january capitol attack to have her leave her office so she could go get punched in the face and get media attention. so, stewart, we'll start with. you tim scott or nancy mace getting punched in the face? i feel like i'm getting punched in the face between these two. i have to go to tim scott. i mean, talk about a guy that has a great future behind him. he was a rising star in the republican party. i was there when mitt romney was running in south carolina. i go to events with him, he was very charismatic. he appeared with nikki haley. and both of them have just chased each other to the bottom. and they stayed with what they said originally about donald trump. they could be standing there now and say, look, i'm all right than i thought i was. i don't think donald trump would be a good president, i never thought he would overthrow the government. instead, they've just sort of

fallen into this trap of trying to appease trump. and he hates everybody. scott has. he hates everybody who doesn't actually stand up to him. so it's just -- i can think of anything sater than american political life than waking up as tim scott these days. it's sad to see the state of affairs to see how fall he has fallen due to donald trump. and what is your take on this? i'm with stewart on, this time. scott something that -- e.t. deede, everything trump touches dies. that means your dignity, that means your intelligence, that means your fortitude, that means your political future. tim scott has mortgaged all of that so he can have this one moment where he's sucking up to donald trump. i didn't think it was anyone in the united states setting something that is more embarrassing than lindsey graham, and tim scott is doing. that this is a part that you can help me understand.

from a political perspective, what is the incentive for tim scott to stand on that stage and be humiliated that way? i understand that you don't want to get into a direct confrontation with donald trump, fine, you don't have to go out there and criticize him at every turn. but why not just keep your head down, focus on your state, try to win your state, instead of de-basing yourself and doing what tim scott and other republican -- you've been someone like vivek ramaswamy who was nobody, but now being humiliate by trump saying that he's not a real republican or not a real maga, going on the stage, standing beside, him and kissing the ring. why do people do that when there is no immediate threat to them? you, know i miss shame. i don't know what happened to it. i think the only way you can look at this in any kind of remotely rational ways to tim scott that he might be donald trump's running mate. which i don't think is going to happen in 1 million years. you know, ambition does crazy

things to people. and gets them to rationalize things they know they should be doing. this is what's happening across the board with a lot of these republican senators who are now endorsing trump. it takes tom cotton of arkansas. the guy couldn't be stronger for ukraine, but now he's supporting and lavish north korean style praise of donald trump who is clearly is a potent candidate. so i think the party is just lost its mind. and, you know, i don't know how to stop this accepted defeat these people. the only way to teach them a lesson. you have to beat them. what do you think is the way for? and also, what do you think happens in the ford when trump is off the stage? at some point he's going to leave american -- the american politics one way or another if his presence is going to be, there would happen to people like tom cotton or tim scott? there's a great line from one of my favorite shows, 30, rock one alec baldwin's kara winter is telling tina fey's

character is, sometimes have to go back down to go back out. i think the republican party needs to go, down to have to fill miserably, they have to lose big time. and that will create donald trump's exit off the stage and allow the republican party to move in a different direction. but failure is the thing that they need to try to cure all of this. when you see the people in the wings, they're embracing trumpism in a weird way more than trump. when you look at what happened to ron desantis for example. he tried to run right off trump. you look up to a lot of those candidates who did that in the last election cycle. they did become u.s. senators. i don't think reminisces a u.s. senator. thank you very, much i appreciate both of you times. tonight we're gonna switch, gears were gonna turn overseas to the humanitarian crisis inside gaza that doctors are fighting to keep people alive. stay with us. stay with us t forget this season 's updated covid-19 shot too. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food.

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as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. several countries including italy and the uk have joined the united states and suspending funding to the united nations relief and works agency.

this comes after the u.n. fired a dozen workers accused of involvement in the october 7th attacks in israel and began investigation into those accusations. in a statement today, the agencies had said, quote, these decisions threaten our ongoing humanitarian work across the region including and especially in the gaza strip. on iran has said that 3000 out of 13,000 core staff are continue to provide aid in gaza. and this comes as the death toll there has continued to climb. according to the palestinian ministry of health, more than 26,000 people have been killed and more than 64,000 are injured. all nascar has bittle in khan younis is the last major hospital in gaza. tonight, we would like to give you a firsthand look inside the hospital through the eyes of one of its doctors. [speaking in a global language] and he has blood in his chest. we tried to help all the

injured, but we lost a lot of people. i feel very, very sad for what happened today. me [speaking in a global language] what we have heard for today? let me see. tomato, lemon, and this. [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language]

[speaking in a global language] now i am going to the souk to buy something to it because i don't have any food in my tenth. [speaking in a global language] i have not eaten anything since the beginning of the day. now i am very hungry. 90% of the doctors left the hospital, fearing for their lives. and the remaining doctors are less than five doctors.

and have to deal with ten cases at a time. israeli tanks are everywhere. and we are completely surrounded. the situation here is miserable. and the smell of death is everywhere. and that was just through the eyes of one doctor inside gaza. coming up next, nearly two years on russia's war on ukraine is still ranging, ever thought about what happens if trump gets back in the white house? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. ( ♪♪ ) nothing brings us together like eggland's best eggs. ( ♪♪ )

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25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪) with the possibility of a second trump presidency in the war in ukraine nearing the two year mark, a big question looms, would trump, if elected again, leave ukraine in europe to fight alone against vladimir putin? according to politico, trump has told european union officials that he won't aid the ent if it is attacked by russia. and they are worried about the risk of putin expanding his assault beyond ukraine within the next few years. meanwhile, top senate republicans this week indicated congress might have to find a new path just secure funding for ukraine, as trump works to erode gop support for a months-long effort to pair aid for keith with changes to u.s. border law. at the center of all of this,

of course, is ukraine's president, volodymyr zelenskyy who, quote, channel the anger and resilience of his people and expressed it with clarity and purpose to the world. coming a symbol of the kind of fortitude all leaders hope they can muster one called on. that's from a new book titled the showman that follows the evolution of zelenskyy from his days as a comedy star to a wartime president on the world stage. providing the first inside account of his life amid the russian invasion. joining me now to discuss this is simon shuster, senior correspondent at time. he's the author of their showman, inside the invasion that shook the world and made a leader of volodymyr zelenskyy. simon, it's good to see you in person. i know new and i have spoken many times while you were in ukraine, so it's very nice and relief to see you here safely. on set. thank. you let's talk with several ocean of zelenskyy. you've known him since you first met him, i believe, in 2019 backstage at a comedy show. he's evolved to become one of the most iconic, most

recognizable politicians in the world because of how he handled the war and certainly in the first couple of months. walk me through his evolution and how he went from being this comedian to being the hero and leading the nation in the first couple of months in the war. through a lot of turning points in that story. it was a gradual evolution to the figure we know today as almost this churchillian kind of wartime president. when i met him in 2019, he was a happy-go-lucky, fairly naive, very optimistic, very charismatic young guy who thought he'd give this whole politics thing a shot. without a very clear idea of how he would handle the very grave challenges he was facing. that's one important turning point in the kind of lesson he learned in politics after he won, just a few months after he was inaugurated, was his first confrontation with donald trump, when donald trump was president, the scandal that famously led to donald trump's first impeachment when trump tried to extort political favors from zelenskyy. i remember talking to zelenskyy

in his office wall that scandal was playing out and he was very dejected. he felt that it was a very hard lesson in the realities, and the ugliness of international affairs. you say in the book that the greatest changes in zelenskyy took place in the first few months of the russian invasion of ukraine. elaborate on that for us. well he stepped into the role of a wartime leader as he imagined it to be. no one's really prepared for that kind of thing. imagine yourself in that situation. you're suddenly under attack by a nuclear superpower that wants to kill you, take over your whole country, you know, what do you do? there is no graduate school program that can prepare you for that kind of thing. so he had to step into a role as he imagined it to be and that transformation was fascinating and dramatic to observe. i remember the, videos you remember the videos early on where he would show himself in the leadership of the country and downtown kyiv when there were reports that he had fled, or he wanted to get out of the country. he would go out in the middle of the day and show himself in the streets. and i was thinking that's

incredible to see that from any kind of modern-day politician. we are approaching two years of this war. what do you think his mindset is? where is his headspace now as he surveys both what is happening inside his country but also i'm sure he's watching what's happening in america with a lot of, i would say at the very least, disappointment and even concerned that donald trump gets reelected. a lot of worry. but i would say one thing and hasn't changed is his determination. his confidence that ukraine can make it's a victory at the end of this thing. that believe is very intense on him and it has not subsided. but the circumstances, the conditions he's facing, are much more complicated than they were even in the first year of the invasion because now western support is declining, donald trump, if he returns to the white house, is pretty clearly said that he will try to turn off the tap completely. so the ukrainians have been taking steps to prepare for that. they are not walking into it blindly. one thing that they're doing

and it's important to, watch as we look at the next months of war, is domestic arms production inside ukraine, they're trying to ramp that up as fast as they can so that they can continue to have arms in the war as long as they needed -- and not be forced into capitulation with putin that they don't participate. and let me ask you more specifically about the specific returns to donald trump. we know what that would mean for us domestically in the u.s., but from the perspective in kyiv, and specifically zelenskyy who, as you, said has now had a long relationship with donald trump going back to the first impeachment. what do you think his mindset is specifically but the return of donald trump? i mean, he's a realist. he will talk to anybody. and he does have a very strong belief in his ability to charm and finally humanity, find the pragmatism, to turn it in his favor, his skills as a negotiator are significant. i think he believes that he can get through to trump. his response to trump's famous line that i will end the war in

24 hours was, come along, mr. trump. give it a try. come to kyiv and see what you can do. so he was calling him on his. left but it's important to understand that one thing that ukraine has one and the two uses a sense of agency international affairs. zelenskyy is not the type to be pushed around. and he's preparing for ways to push back if someone like donald trump tries to corner him and force him into some kind of negotiation. is there belief among ukrainians and the leadership of ukraine, certainly zelenskyy based on the time that you spend with him, that this war can be won without the west, generally, and america, specifically? i don't think that's realistic. they're quite sober about that. the insiders i talked to say, we are deeply reliant on the west. it would be a dramatic blow to our war effort if the west were to cut off support. so -- there are shades of gray here. so they're counting on the europeans to step up and provide more support. they are still hoping, and quite optimistic, maybe too optimistic, that the

republicans will lift the resistance on capitol hill and allow some of the aid to flow. they're also looking for every way imaginable to sustain fight even if that it continues to decline. looking ahead, what mindset do you think zelenskyy is in about the long term prospects of the? what is he has confident today in the victory of ukraine as he was in the very beginning, or has he realize that maybe there is another way out of this other than just simply fighting the russians? the russians seem to be grinding the situation down. they want to play the long game. they probably know that they can outlast ukraine with the way it's playing out here, right, now domestically in the u.s.. and prove happens with a winning support in europe. i will say this, in public and private, his sense of confidence, his confidence that he projects is, there it's not -- not dogmatic. if the will of the people in ukraine changes and they begin to support, according to opinion polls, some kind of negotiated peace, or something

like, that negotiations with the russians, he will adjust the public opinion. he's very responsive to public opinion. right, now ukrainians simply don't want. that polls show consistently that ukrainians don't want to give up land in exchange for peace. and domestically, his political situation has that all changed? are we seeing a resumption of ukrainian politics, are people questioning his leadership in a new way that we have not seen since the war began? more and more. i think his popularity from a very high point of over 90% in some polls early in the invasion has declined. we're now talking about in the vicinity of 60%, very still popular, very. strong i think joe biden would like those numbers here. yes. there's no competitor to zelenskyy at this point. but yes, it's declining. we will see how it plays out. simon shuster, it's good to see. you congratulations on this, book an important read for everyone who's trying to understand what is happening in ukraine, and on volodymyr zelenskyy. good luck with, it and thank

you for coming. on and thank you for making time for us at, home come back tomorrow night at seven eastern on msnbc. texas as we've talked about in the show, engaged in a border standoff involving the governor, the president, and supreme court. to texans are going to help us hash that out. congressman joaquin roland garcia, and james comer and his embarrassing impeachment investigation. till then, i'm ayman wilkie dean, live in new york, have a good night. od night for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go. as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

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