welcome to the beach weekend.

i'm sorry, albert let's get right into the headlines. >> a jury just hit donald trump with this record breaking penalty for lying about a sexual assault accuser. defendant trump, ordered to pay $83 million to the writer e. jean carroll. she is the victorious plaintiffs in this case, and right here you can see as she first walked out of court with her lawyers today. now we can tell you the jury deliberated from just under three hours, that is fast, and they dubbed trump a huge loss, which set its records, and shows a very costly miscalculation that he, an ongoing defendant made by, according to the court system, lying and defaming her again after a previous court victory. here are the numbers tonight, if you've been watching the news, you may have seen some of this. i want to break it down for me. $18 million to compensate

carroll, okay, that is what the jury found she should get for what she went through. and then that larger number, a massive $65 million to punish this defiant defendant. i'm going to walk you through why that is such a high number. the jury determined that defendant trump acted maliciously, in the ways that he attacked carroll. now, this is big in every sense. a large amount of money, even for a wealthy defendant. a huge punishment, administered by this court system, which can extract the funds directly from a defendant's account. in this case, a defendant who has been found civilly liable. so it doesn't matter whether donald trump ever chooses to write the check. as long as he owes this, as long as this is the judgment, and is not somehow made to reverse, the court system can take the 83 mill from his accounts, from his properties, period. this also sets a huge and significant precedent, as lawyers and legal report is certainly no. which is why reporters at the courthouse were literally heard

to gasp, in a kind of collective and immediate emotional response, gasp when they heard the 65 million dollar figure that was first announced. it was far larger than most cases. the new york times has that detail about the courtroom reaction today. now trump did attend closing arguments, that was earlier today. he was in this very courtroom, but he left before the verdict and damages there were red. and i can tell you this pr conscious defendant may have known how that it could play for him to be there, in the room, when he was held to account, and when this jury exercised its legal authority over him, it's civil authority to take money out of his account. and history can be instructive here. remember, a court had already found court -- had to famed carroll. in fact, we always try to be straightforward with you. if you're going, reit like we have lived with this news before, with a different number, you have. she previously got about $5 million in damages from him, again over the same issue. a court process finding that he

lied, that he defamed her in the way that he attacked her, and denied her assertion and claim about the sexual assault that she says was perpetuated on her. now his insistence on attacking her after that, which again i'm just telling you what the court system found, has now been ruled to be more legally determined, lies that he defamed her again. it was that which set the stage for this unusually high penalty. you can compare 83 million to other cases, for example, take the different legal situation, but serious situation where a legal process tries to issue damages for a fatal shooting, for a situation where someone was shot to death. this case we just want to show you more of the estimation, by example, resulted in a 7 million dollar payment. i could tell you that there are other cases involving wrongful death, defamation, or other civil ports, as the lawyers call them, where you have three,

five, several million dollars. what you have here, $83 million, not for the original lie, but for what a court system found was the malicious, defamatory, ongoing set of lies against this woman, who exercised her rights to detail her story of sexual assaults. that is how it got all the way up to 80 million, this being one of the largest defamation punishments for any single defendant, any single person in history. it is a big news night, and we want to set out those legal facts for you, and bring into of our experts to make sense of this. kristy greenberg is a former prosecutor, she was in the courthouse this morning. lisa rubin msnbc legal analyst, has been covering this case for us. if you had your tv on at all last days, you've seen her. we appreciate both of you. lisa, you are there, this seems larger than most cases in history. how does it play out, how did it feel in the courtroom leading up to this? and what do we know today?

>> you know every, every day of this trial has been tense and intense. and today was no exception, when donald trump showed his contempt for this jury once again. there has been a flagrant show of entitlement by him and his team, all throughout. and that includes things like getting up, as he did, as you noted during rob kaplan's closing argument for e. jean carroll. but also things like his political aide, boris epstein, being in the courtroom and frequently standing up to hand notes to people, or his spokesperson -- attending yesterday, not handing in his phone to security, and having his cell phone alarm go off wildly. and so, his contempt for this jury has always been evident, and it continued to be evident after their verdict. and they weren't buying any of it, they did not accept his attempt to remove himself, and say essentially that he was above these proceedings. rather, as judge kaplan instructed them, they took their oath solemnly.

they understood that what they did today was integral to our constitutional process and the system. judge caplan gave them, as one of their last instructions, a reminder that in the constitution, the jury appears twice explicitly, and that this -- the southern district of new york, where christie was a prosecutor, where i did most of my practice when i was a practicing litigator, this court has existed since 1799. that's before the first time the supreme court met. and so, sort of imbuing them with a sense of history and solemnity, that is the jury that awarded e. jean carroll 83 point $3 million today. it's remarkable. >> and lisa, let me ask you to follow up on that -- and then i'll bring -- the case was tried. lisa, hanging over all of this is not just the number amount, whether not he runs for -- or many of the other things that touch on this case. if none of that were happening, it would still be significant as a ruling that a from's

carols right to speak, and that there are consequences, there is a cost to defaming someone's right to speak. in other words, we've heard about free speech rights, i used to practice free speech law. it's not a right to do crime, and it's not a right to defamation. defamation is actually against the, last today's judgment shows. so i wonder if you could speak to us about the loss response to that. in other words, she told the truth, she was defamed. he does have a, right as anyone, does to respond or defend themselves. but that doesn't include the right to defame this woman, who told her story about sexual assault. >> that's right, and when his truth intersects with a lie about her, as judge kaplan reminded alina habba in her closing, that's not constitutionally protected. what alina habba argued in her closing, and in her opening, and finally the judge had to instruct the jury that this is not legally warranted.

essentially, e. jean carroll had a duty to mitigate or reduce her damages. you might ask, if you are defamed, how exactly are you supposed to stop your damages, other than to be silent? and that is what e. jean carroll's lawyers told the jury today was unacceptable as a matter of law, but also culturally unacceptable. to say that a victim of defamation hasse to then shut themselves up to mitigate the damage was caused by somebody else's lies is backwards and perverse, particularly in 2024, even if it is still a country in which donald trump is the presumptive front runner to the republican nomination, already. >> understood, lisa you've been busy at the court. please stick around for us. because i want to come back to you. i want to turn to christie, who is here at the table with me. you've been in many courtrooms, this is a very high definition judgment, you can speak on us in the context. what else did you speak of what was not only a winning strategy, but an initial when. and by all accounts, carol

would have left it there, had this defendant not solely defined the punishment to come back on, to pick a differing example for viewers, it would be like if after the fox defamation case, they said got it, pain. now let's bring rudy and the other convicted trump lawyer on and hold the panel. whenever people criticize fox for, that's not how their lawyers and their cfo decided to deal. walk us through all of, that if you would. >> so what i found so interesting about this is, you had the first trial, where the punitive damages worth $3 million. that 3 million dollar judgment for punitive damages included the sexual assault, as well as a statement that he made, the defamatory statement in october of 2022. that was not materially different from these two statements in 2019 that were the subject of this trial. so, why did we go from 3 million to the first jury to 65 million in punitive damages with this? now look, there are different jurors. but at the end of the day, the key thing i think is donald

trump's own words. you know, it's like that pink song, don't let me get, me i'm my own worst enemy. donald trump is his own worst enemy here. he not only, immediately after the first trial verdict, he went out and defamed e. jean carroll again. he was holding press conferences while this jury was hearing evidence. and then he got up on the stand, and again said that she made a false accusation. that was stricken from the record, but you can't uncharitable, and the jury clearly heard him get up there and say it again. heard it from the horse's mouth. and so, when you continue to do that, and you don't show any remorse, and you don't distance yourself from these vile tweets where his followers are saying she should be -- killed. you don't disclaim any influence for any of that. the punitive damages go up, so he has nobody to blame for this, i think really by himself. that was the key difference in this trial, that didn't exist in the first. and you see the difference in the damages. >> everything you said makes

sense. i want everyone to absorb. what you referred to some of the horrific things she has been subjected to, and his defiance. and that defiance has brought a very real penalty. and even very wealthy people, his wealth has jumped all around, and he has been caught lying and exaggerating it. but even very wealthy people have to make trade-offs and move things around when it is this high. and i want to show legal experts on -- joyce vance pointing to how her team showed look, what he says about how much he has anyway, we've got some of that, take a listen. >> if i wanted to show you a good statement, i would have -- rented maybe ten billion dollars or something -- i did put the brand in there. help my thing my brand value is probably my greatest asset, even though it gets tarnished by people like this. when i became president because of the brand. okay, i became president. and i think it's the hottest brand in the world. >> they are using that, and they're also saying, as you said, that if the legal road is

punishment, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander. a person -- who has so much wealth of they're not going to feel it actually needs to be punished to a higher number. >> right, and they played that during the trial. this ten billion dollar number, he's a self proclaimed billionaire, and it supported the argument that you have to make him feel it. because he is not going to stop unless you actually hit him where it hurts, in his wallet. and they made that point very effectively, again, with his own words. boasting about his wealth, i don't know that he is worth $10 million billion -- but that is something that he said in connection with the new york civil trial, and that words are coming back to fight now. >> yeah, lisa rubin has been all there for us. kristy greenberg, i want to thank both of you for the reporting, and this is a story i think we will be continuing to cover. so we are indebted to both of you. we have more on this coming up, including carroll's -- our special guests coming up our on how carroll won so big. what can we learn from all of

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>> no, no. what -- you ask me that question. no i'm not having any second thoughts about representing

president trump. it is the proudest thing i could ever do. >> donald trump's wildly controversial, and we can say today, losing lawyer that they lost this case very badly, coming out after that tough verdict today. we are joined by msnbc anchor and one of our legal eagles, katie phang and emily -- a legal writer for the magazine. thanks to both of you. emily, i want to turn here from the headlines about this massive -- we just discussed with two legal experts. to miss carroll's journey, which is not something that anyone can embark on easily. she has won, and now tonight one big, won by a far more massive scale than before. but this is a long, hard road. and i wanted to get your perspective on that road, the risks she had to take, and why it's different than what some people feel they are in a situation to even consider going forward with. >> you know, e. jean carroll is a serious writer, she had a reputation for being very funny, she wrote for saturday night

live at one point. and she was incredibly determined. she was willing to write about this encounter that she says she had former president trump. knowing that it was going to bring down an enormous amount of criticism and attention on her head. and then she decided to strike back, by filing the suit. you know the hard thing about suing for defamation is that the coverage of your lawsuit repeats all of the things that you are objecting to. that is just how it goes, the news has to say why you are suing. and she decided that that was worth the price, because she knew that former president trump was going to be getting a lot of attention for what he was saying anyway. so she was fearless, and really determined. and stuck with it every step of the way. i think that lots of people would not have had the stomach for bringing this kind of lawsuit in these circumstances. >> katie, same question, and your thoughts about the potential lessons here.

because these are important issues far outside of the political context, for defendants who may be running for president. >> yeah, so already for several victims of sexual assault and sexual abuse, the criminal statute of limitations runs before they are able to seek justice in the judicial system. in this particular instance, e. jean carroll relied upon the civil judicial system to be able to bring her justice, and recall there's two cases. the first defamation trial was based on the second lawsuit she brought. this defamation trial that just came to a verdict conclusion today was on the first lawsuit she brought when donald trump was president of the united states. there was also a kind of coherence of good fortune that the new york state passed the adult survivors act, which allowed her to be able to bring a second lawsuit for sexual assault. and so because of that, and because of the fortitude that e. jean carroll showed, to be able to pursue justice and

accountability, we are able to find that it is to the tune of upwards of 80 something million dollars today. but some of the biggest lessons, are, in this instance are, you better get a good lawyer to help you. i think you see that defiance on alina habba's face, which came out of court they. and the fact that she thought it was her proudest moment. well as a trial lawyer, i wouldn't be proud to lose, but i also don't mind losing if i can learn a lesson. if you can lose and learn a lesson, it is a valuable moment, right. i don't think she has learned a lesson, and i don't think it's surprising that donald trump has -- 's i think strategically, having a female lawyer when you are going after a female victim or a female plaintiff, makes sense. but i think in this instance, when alina habba gets up, in the theme of donald trump is to blame everyone but himself. he blamed e. jean carroll, and then alina habba got up during closings, airy, and she blamed quote, chose in there -- for the people who were sending the threats, and that donald trump shouldn't have any type of imputed liability for what they've done.

putting aside whether or not she misconstrue the law, it is that type of defiant, it's never going to be my problem attitude that never works with jurors, and it certainly hasn't worked with the two juries that have found him liable. >> still ahead on the beach weekend, the white house, and how it is doing with trump's efforts to sabotage the bipartisan bill. white house communications director -- our special guest, next. our special guest, next. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. j.p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy

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harnessing ai to plant new beginnings. ♪ so when minds grow, opportunities follow. how is the economy doing? well, it was a year with a strong quarter gdp, up over 3%. president biden emphasizing economic success as he hit wisconsin today. >> but america now has the strongest growth, and lowest inflation rate of any economy in the world. 14 million new jobs since i became president. >> you know how they say bad news sometimes travels faster than good news? the economy is not perfect, the stock market isn't helping everyone. and we discussed the price gouging that's going on. so there are other notes. but the underlying good news is clear.

today's report, actually beating some of the prognostications out there. but here's how it all plays on conservative media. >> we'll look through the support to see if there are signs that maybe the economy doesn't feel as, or isn't as resilient as it might seem by this data. >> you have to dig deep with him beyond that top line 3.3% number. if you look through the whole list of components, of gross domestic product, you see something very troubling. this economy is quite troubling if you're just a typical middle class family. >> yeah, look beyond just the headline there. >> look beyond the headline. well, there may be a political reason why that is some of the reaction. because donald trump has been pretty clearly rooting for america to fail until he can win. >> when there is a crash, i hope it's going to be during these next 12 months. because i don't wanna be herbert hoover. the one president i just don't want to be, herbert hoover. >> now, there are some wider issues here, because it used to be a tradition like other things we've talked about that

fell apart, were both candidates and both nominees would say of course they are rooting for america, they just have disagreements. trump is going a lot farther, not just that crashed, top which you can call rhetoric, but actively intervening to prevent the very solutions that the republican party claims it wants. brand-new, reports that trump wants to sabotage a potential border deal with republican ingredients. that's not him against democratic ideas, it's him against any breakthrough. and even republicans say that goes too far. >> the idea that someone runng r president would say please hurt the country so i can blame my opponent and help my politics, is a shocking development. >> it is immoral for me to think you look the other way because you think this is the linchpin for president trump to win. >> those are two conservative republicans, one of whom you might recognize as the party's former nominee. so how does the white house deal with this kind of interference? white house communications director --

joins me now. welcome, how are you? >> doing well, thanks for having me. >> absolutely. i just walk through some of the economic numbers. what do you attribute that to, and is the president getting his message out, given what you know is a time with a lot of other stuff going on? >> absolutely. look, i think it is a result of president biden's economic policies over the past three years, which have resulted in 14 million jobs created across the country, the return of manufacturing to the united states, 800,000 jobs -- we've got the strongest recovery anywhere in the world. inflation is down by two thirds, and you've seen specific sectors get off the ground. so the clean energy industry is being built here in the united states now, after years of inaction, president trump talk all the time about infrastructure -- . we're going to have infrastructure decade. the president was in wisconsin today, announcing a billion dollars for an aging bridge that moves the factory of commerce between the u.s. and canada. our largest trading partner, a lot of workers across the

country rely on that infrastructure. that's going to be rebuilt as a result of this, but that's a microcosm of more than 4000 projects getting off the ground right now. so these were targeted policies that have resulted in the strongest economic recovery anywhere in the world. >> we showed some of the card-carrying republican members, who are probably outraged at the reports that donald trump wants to sink any progress or bipartisan deal on the border. and this is a complex issue that has a lot of external factors. on the other hand, there are a lot of folks, and not just right wing republicans, who think that there is more than you can do at the border to have both a few mean, humanitarian policy for the people affected, but also keep the area secure. would you say that things are going great, that things are under percent secure? and if not, what does the white house wants to do about it? >> no, the president doesn't believe that. look, he's been trying to take action on this for years. the first piece of legislation -- after being sworn into office was a comprehensive immigration reform bill that would have

placed up funding for the border patrol and border security. last, year he sent to supplemental funding requests to capitol hill, asking for more money for 2000 more border patrol agents, for drug screening technology at the border, and for more asylum officers and immigration judges to make sure that we are processing cases quicker. there is a huge backlog at the border. his sent to capitol hill a team of negotiators to work with this bipartisan group of senators, to see if language could be agreed upon. 75% of the country believes we need to move on this, the president believes we need to move on this. those negotiators believe we need to move on this. the president is still hopeful that we will be able to land a deal here. but obviously ultimately, it is up to congress. >> what are you missing? you have the vote count, what do you need to make that deal? >> look, we are just going to need the political will in both parties on capitol hill to get that done. but the team of negotiators is very serious about this, and the president is very serious

about this. and those talks are ongoing. >> then, i know you are serious, got you are in the white house doing all these big things, and you say you are focused on governing. but a lot of you are wondering, are they going to be, if donald trump is the nominee, are there going to be trump biden debates again? are we going to see that in the general election, or too early to tell? >> well look, i'm not a campaign official, so i can't get into all of the campaign details. >> hold on, i did call that deflection, but go ahead sir. [laughter] >> you know, there are some legal requirements -- and we are not going to host the democratic convention at the white house either. but, look the president is going out there and making his case every day, it's his job as president. he is advocating for preserving our democracy, he is advocating for preserving the rights and freedoms of americans across the country, including reproductive rights. and he is encouraging, he is making sure that we continue on our economic progress, that is broadly shared, that is closing the racial wealth gap, that is

focusing on the middle class and not just trillions of dollars in tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations, like president trump offered when he was an office. >> understood. we covered a couple of topics here, and you have a lot going on. so, i appreciate you making time to join us here on the lead. coming up on the beat weekend, republicans efforts to strong arm nikki haley out of the entire presidential race. we have special reaction from james carville, and michael steele, next. steele, next ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis.

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the path going forward, and i don't see it for nikki haley. i think she has run a great campaign, but i do think there is a message that is coming out from the voters, which is very clear. we need to unite around our eventual nominee, which is going to be donald trump. >> with today's rnc chair, putting a thumb on the scale. we are back with former rnc -- james carville. james, go ahead. >> well first of, all i just got a little bit of nostalgia and -- because it was 33 years ago right now, when i started dating my wife, and she was the chief of staff of the rnc. and i would spend hours in office going back and forth, and -- mister chairman. and -- who is that democrat. so, the rnc used to be a -- when governor steele ran, that it was a very organized thing, republicans would vote, 94% for a republican nominee, it was uniform, unified party. that's not what it is today.

donald trump has just run roughshod over the entire operation. miss mcdaniels, seems like a perfectly nice person, she's completely ineffective, completely at donald trump's bidding. and there is not -- and i think steele would agree with me, there's not a republican party, in the sense of when he graduated georgetown in 1992 law school -- i couldn't pass -- the george town law school. but anyway, it was a different, it was a different party. and we should be treated as the same thing, it's not -- me with mary -- and and anybody else. >> well, so that's that dovetails to what james mentioned earlier in the hour, michael. which is that this is not a normal time, and we are a country that has political parties hold these things, and they look kind of like elections, we call them primary. but the party is the instrument. conservatives were upset, or

pretend to be upset, by their alleged bias against the dnc, which involved nitpicking, stolen emails and other various things. and i think there was fair criticism of some of the dnc leadership. but no one was on air announcing to states, in one primary in, that the thing was over. and so democracy can take its hits at many levels, this is not illegal, this is not stealing votes. i'm not saying that, but nor is it, michael, good faith transparent and honest brokering of the voter's decision in the republican party primaries, is it? >> and that's an incredibly important point, and i want to emphasize it with an example. so when i literally, within a couple weeks of becoming rnc chairman, there was a little special election up in upstate new york for a state senate seat. and in that election, the republican party locally decided to do exactly what ronna did, to put their finger on the scale on who should be the nominee.

a democrat switched to be a republican a year oso before, and decided to run. they didn't want that person, because there were a former democrat. so they decided, in short, to rig the system. and the entire thing blew up, and in fact you could say in many respects, it was one of the seedlings of examples that stirred the passion of the then not yet fully emerged tea party. and it will be four months later that i would meet with them in my office at the rnc, and they would look at that as an example of why they were annoyed with the party. the seedling that was placed today, will germinate in this party, in terms of how the party process's election. and, do the states have the ability to run their candidates? does the national party have the ability to let everybody who wants to run for president run, without putting their finger on the scale?

>> yeah, and that's a serious thing. because the choices at that the general election gets in our two party system, as it exists, come through these roads. and one of these roads has got a lot of traffic and clogging, when it comes to being anything like a real democracy. that's all the serious stuff, we do more -- i got a little bit of business for both of you before we go on. on michael side, big news in politics and comedy today. john stewart is bringing back the daily show, hosted -- by john stewart sir. he is going to be one night at least of the election, that's the news. and remember, it was john stewart who, with michael steele, created one of our favorite other guests, the puppet. and i want to remind everyone that puck has been on the beat on this very show, we are honored. we have even made an imagined nighttime show if you and the puppet. late night with michael steele, that's a thing that is partly real, and partly made up. as you know. so we're running low on time,

but in a sense or a word, your feeling about john stewart's return? >> dude, i'm excited. i am excited. i had a little fun with the little instagram video, which i encourage everyone to look up. steele and stewart, you will love it. but welcome back john, we missed you baby, we need you. >> i'll join you and, welcome back john. whether he brings out the moffitt in any which way, that's only for him. he is the creator, other than you, i mean it is based on you. but he and you are the creators of said moffitt. michael, thanks for joining us. james, you don't get out alive either without a little business, okay. i want to show everyone, and thanks again michael. we noticed james carville's wardrobe. this is the new hampshire primary wardrobe from the war room documentary, which we have clipped, we showed some of the tonight. there you are on the phone. this is james carville last week, the shirts are almost indistinguishable james. what do you have to say for your fashion sense, which may be like your politics is pretty

consistent? >> it's carnival time, okay. and those are carnival colors. and yeah, when i've dressed and -- i did 35 years ago, 40 years ago. and i'm very comfortable with it. and by the way, i like carnival colors, i think they are very colorful, and they are very joyous. and that's, great and i agree with both you and governor steele, i was delighted to see jon stewart coming back, because i think mockery is the mostive tool that we have against trump. and it should be employed, and to have a pro like that on our side, that's good news. >> the last fashion question james, we're gonna put it back up there. again, this is decades apart, almost the same shirt. the last fashion question is, how many of these do you own? >> 07 or eight. i keep them around. i like them, i mean i actually kind of like them.

rod stripes, and purple -- green. they are great colors, -- >> it's -- >> i got something i, like and i keep. it >> hey, you get something like, and you keep it. that could go for the people in your life as well. james carville, on many topics, we know we appreciate you, thank you sir. >> listen, you're one of those people in my life that consistently i like, are you, thank you. >> stay with us, because next on the beach weekend, we have something important. former trump white house adviser and convicted felon peter navarro faces his first ever prison sentence, all for defying that january 6th subpoena. we have some special reporting want to share with you, when we come back. come back. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt.

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news today, one of the most prominent clashes between the trump white house and congress over january 6th. the trump white house aide peter navarro, today, sentenced to four months in prison. navarro is the second trump aide to get prison time for defying house subpoenas in that january 6th probe. of course that probe has ended with the new congress, but these cases proceed. not only that we can report tonight peter navarro is the first such trump aide who is still actually working inside the trump white house at the time of the insurrection. the other convicted aid is steve bannon. navarro did go on a long road to get to today. trump had cited his claims about a stolen election in the

very first internet announcement -- summoning people for january 6th. but navarro was still not initially on the house committees radar. that's changed when he admitted and -- parts of his plot to overthrow the election, on this program. >> the remedy was for vice president pence's -- back in the green bay suite to remand those votes back to the six battleground states. >> do you realize you are describing a coup? >> no. >> that was our first interview there. now navarro and bannon did detail their so-called sweep in some public venues. then, they both flatlydefied any legal obligation, which they knew they had, to actually respond to the subpoenas. to further discuss what they had been discussing in public. then, the house committee, as you may recall, help them in contempt. arguing that the doj must draw a line at such outright defiance of an investigation, into the little overthrowing of the government. the house hearing that held

navarro in contempt did also specifically play an expert of that the interview we just show you part of. and then a investigating order that navarro's secrecy claims were undermined by how he had shared information about the plots of the journalist. >> mr. navarro made multiple media appearances, during which he discussed his various roles in the events that culminated in the january 6th attack. he has so much knowledge to share with the journalists, but he refuses to share that knowledge in response to a lawful subpoena. >> he did not answer the questions, or engage with the lawful subpoena. and he made claims that he felt he was completely exempt from, because of secrecy rules around executive privilege. he was warned along the way, and then in court that those claims were invalid, they were not legally substantiated. but navarro basically repeated these arguments, that the courts had rejected, even saying he thought his privilege had been accepted. a judge dismissing that fact free talk as worthless, as a quote magical incantation.

and noted that just screaming and yelling privileges not a get out of jail free card. then, in for his, part was convicted and already sentenced also to four months in prison. both trump veterans are appealing the prison sentences, which is their legal right. you take it all together tonight, and this is that long, slow process. for people who say, is there any accountability? does anyone ever get in trouble? we should note that there is a history of some clashes between these different branches, between the executive and the congressional. and they are really resolved with this serious of a response, conviction and prison time. that is a function of this justice department, looking at how seriously defiance was, and thinking and publicly saying that if they didn't draw a line here, then a congressional subpoena would effectively become worthless except to the people who choose to want to be cooperative. and that is not always the case,

not when you are dealing with traditional -- investigations. and certainly not when you are dealing with what remains an open investigation, on multiple fronts, and looming trials for the plot to overthrow the last election. we've got a break, but i've got something very special coming up, including the reverend al sharpton joining us, next. pton joining us, next. n't forget this season 's updated covid-19 shot too. i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ i've never been healthier. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective,

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hip-hop artist from new york, and even part of new york then some, buffalo wrap -- a grammy nominated storytellers work with everyone from j. cole to -- . conway the machine, and and he has set out to establish his own legacy. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> many the butcher. >> the butcher. >> the butcher coming. >> but i'm about -- to that's crazy. >> who are you listening to from this new generation? -- there are a group that actually has kind of brought it back home. >> the day with seoul shout out. his new project is called every buddy can't go. and joining us is someone we all know and love, who has been a fetus across many issues, the reverend al sharpton, author, civil rights leader and -- of course many know him from

first getting started with the legendary james brown. he was also of course now an msnbc anchor, hosting politicsnation on the weekend. and i've got to say, the rev gets as many big gets as any sunday show in america, including president obama, president biden, vice president harris, and the hits keep on coming. nice to see you both. >> yes sir, how are you feeling? >> i'm feeling great. love to have you both together. rev, what's on your fallback list? >> who needs to fall back, but needs -- to know, watching his artistry, and he's got a new album dropping, people that are not originals need to fall back. i grew up with like james brown's son, we got that close. and james brown always said don't be like one of the boys, be in original. and all the people that try to imitate others, or try to mix invitations, should fall back, and i think that's why he's getting the respect he's getting. >> i love you saying that rev. because that crosses culture,

politics, people who even speak for a living. do you figure out what you want to say, and how you want to say? it or you just echoing the last person? >> yeah i think that if you are authentic, you speak from your heart. and again, mr. brown used to tell me people can feel you before they hear you. because they can either feel whether you are really speaking from your heart, or whether you are citing some lines. >> man, my fall back list, i would have to say another -- who -- the lady she was already arresting. you know i, because right now i lost my bank card? i could just imagine somebody playing with me like that. you don't mean, the holidays just passed, inflation, we counted every dollar right now. so i mean, people be saying to bank, artsy got to be careful. so the police need to fall back on that. >> and -- has worked with communities like -- people dealing with police for decades now. and the issues range from large

to small, right. sometimes big, most horrific instances get a ton of national tension, and then the day to day routine alleged harassment doesn't even make the news. >> because he was comfortable and he texted it in -- like a decently that all the time. i'm not saying he's too comfortable. that >> and i think they get comfortable because people don't share a light on it. and i think that's why people like me come out to try to blow something's. up imagine the things that don't get blown up. so i feel what he's saying, and because this is everyday life we go through, and nobody cares unless somebody makes an issue. of it thanks for watching the beach weekend, be sure to join us weekdays at six pm eastern, the beat on msnbc. e beat on msnbc. good evening and welcome to ayman, tonight donald trump held accountable with more legal hurdles, threatening his grip on the gop nomination. we'll be ex presidents alcohol and strategy backfired with the voters. plus, the republican national committee has something so