now today's other top story,

turkish police are searching for two masked gunman who shot and killed a man inside a church. officials say the shooting happened during sunday services in istanbul. no word yet on any other injuries. -- it has successfully launched three satellites with several european nations are condemning the new move, out of fears that launch could improve tehran's ballistic missile system. and take a look at this from paris, to climate activists through -- at the iconic mona lisa pavement today, then -- the painting has been protected under armored glass since 2005. the latest on the breaking news, three of soldiers killed overseas, plus new fallout from the donald trump decision reaction from people that were inside that courtroom. >> a very good day to all of

you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome everyone to alex witt reports. news, three u.s. serviceing members killed, about two dozen wounded, during anunmanned aerial joint attack in northeast jordan, right near the syrian border. the white house says the attack carried out by iran-backed militant groups operating in syria and iraq. our reporters in place across the world to cover today's breaking news for us, we're gonna begin with matt bradley in jerusalem. matt, welcome again. walk us through what happened, what do we know? >> it sounds as though there is at least 11 directional drone that struck a tent encampment that was housing u.s. troops and was right along the border there between jordan and syria. the white house said this was in jordan, and as you mentioned, three u.s. soldiers were killed. a few dozen were injured. this is a massive escalation, and we heard from the white house they're set talking about how they will respond in time.

that response, what it is, could dictate how this proceeds, whether not the u.s. decides to act in such a way as to really destroy a lot of these iran-backed groups, whether they ask -- when they attack iran itself, which we heard from republican lawmakers urging a strike against iran. this is a truly incendiary situation, and one that isn't going to be surprising to the white house and the pentagon, even if they are saddened by the u.s. serviceman. there have been attacks almost every single day against u.s. targets in iraq and syria, and there are thousands of u.s. troops were still in syria and iraq, and this is something that looked as though for a long time it could break off into a wider region wide war, because remember these groups in iraq and syria are backed by iran. like hezbollah, in lebanon. which just as recently as today was exchanging fire over in israel over that much fought over border. there's also the houthis in yemen. this is the group that is been

attacking commercial shipping to the red sea and the gulf of aden with some regularity, and also inviting attacks on itself by -- so we're seeing not just fighting between syria and israel, and hamas in the gaza strip. another group that's also backed by iran. i but across the border into lebanon, in iraq, in syria, now in jordan, as you can see -- this is the type of situation that is going to be the threat fall for every one in the region, particularly for the civilians that tend to carry the burden for these sorts of wars if they break off. alex, as long as i've been alive there's been wars in fighting in the middle east, but only now are we really seeing the entire region so close to the precipice of one large region wide war that could envelop the entire middle east, and that's what makes it so impossibly dangerous. >> i think you put it absolutely perfectly. stay with us, matt, if you will. we're going to the white house and nbc's allie raffa, ali what more do we know about this and

what else is the white house saying about it? >> yeah, alex. you heard matt talk about how there have been fears for months since the israel-hamas war began on october 7th, of this conflict widening and we've heard u.s. officials saying since then that everything the u.s. has done in that timeframe has been to prevent this conflict from widening even further. that's why we have seen white house officials talk about the directions by the president to add u.s. troops to this region, to add more carrier strike groups, to the area. this area and the red sea, to try and prevent any bad actors from trying to take advantage of the instability in this region, and try to spark a wider war. this is now the news the white house and the biden administration had been trying to avoid this whole time. this news that three u.s. service members had been killed, 25 of them injured in what the president is describing in this new statement as a quote,

unmanned aerial drone attack on our forces stationed in northeast georgia near the syrian border. he said well we are still gathering with the facts of the attack, we know it was carried out by radical iran-backed militant groups operating in syria and iraq. it's notable that in the statement the president does not directly point the finger at any of the different iran-backed militant groups. he goes on in the statement to say we wrry on their commitment to fight terrorism and have no doubt we will hold all those responsible to account and -- manner of our choosing. that is the big question right now, when that could come, and how it would come. what would be a proportional response to this attack? something that would retaliate against it, but also prevent the u.s. from being drawn further into this conflict. we know that the white house -- the white house says that the president was briefed on this attack by defense secretary lloyd austin as well as his

national security team, and we can expect those updates to continue throughout the day as the president makes his way back here to the white house from south carolina. >> ali, what do you know about a potential deal on the release of hostages held by hamas? as the white house been told anything about what's going down in paris today? >> we know these talks have been happening on how to negotiate another deal to be able to allow for the release of the more than still 100 hostages held by hamas in gaza. among them are about six americans, and we know that the deal would include a longer humanitarian pause in fighting to allow for that to happen. a senior administration official is saying that there are still things being worked out, still some disagreements, but there is very promising progress and we are just in the last hour, we have heard from prime minister benjamin netanyahu's office saying that those talks have concluded in

europe. but again, a senior administration official is saying that all of this is very promising, and that is evidenced by the conversation that we know president biden has had in recent days with his qatari and egyptian counterparts as well as his sending of the cia director bill burns to paris to be able to have these talks with the top negotiators. >> okay, matt before i let you go since you're there in jerusalem, has there been much discussion about what's happening? and the hopes for releasing these hostages where you are? >> yeah, well this is something that of course when we are speaking with family members of some of these hostages, they were chilled -- chaired by the news that bill burns is on his way. this is a major pressure point for benjamin netanyahu, because even as he has pushed into the gaza strip with such ferocity, more than 26,000 people have been killed since october 7th it -- according to the hamas-run palestinian ministry of health. there haven't been any hostages

freed by their actual fighting. the only real hostage releases we've seen are through negotiations like the ones we're seeing now in paris. this is the last, best hope for a lot of the family members of those who are still being held under the gaza strip, thought to be in these tunnels, maybe in some homes our apartment buildings in the gaza strip, by hamas, and possibly by other groups. and including six americans. these negotiations are crucial, and they really have stood out as the only avenue by which diplomats can release these people. alex? >> i have to say, one thing that is pretty -- admiral james to frates yesterday on this broadcast, i asked him how much of the hamas underground tunnel system has it likely been destroyed in the wake of these four months of attacks by israel on hamas, he said about 10%. pretty sobering. okay, i will leave you with that. thank you so much. in just a few minutes i'm also gonna speak with mark polymeropoulos, and all -- national security analyst, and

also -- on our next story, you're gonna see me talking with that woman there, congresswoman barbara lee who is going to weigh in as what she sees as the next appropriate plan of action. let's -- break a news on capitol hill, as top negotiators say a deal has been reached on a bill to secure a border. we're gonna go right to nbc's gary grumbach, with more on this. what happens next? first of all, establish where this is, and then what happens next. >> sure, so a bipartisan group of negotiators -- have been working for four or five months to get to this point. a point where they say they have a barge partisan agreement on a border deal. that may all get blown up because of the fact that people like donald trump have been saying that a backward or deal is far worse than no border deal at all. we saw just this morning on the sunday shows, senator rick scott, congressman mccaul, the congress doesn't actually need to do anything about this --

by president biden as early as today in the form of executive orders. that's what their stance is on this. in terms of the text, we don't have the text. nobody has the text yet except for the negotiators. here's what senator james lankford said is going to be part of the deal. >> this bill focuses on getting us to zero illegal crossings a day. there is no amnesty, it increases the number of border patrol agents, it increases asylum officers, it increases detention beds so we can quickly detain and deport individuals, it ends caption release. it focuses on additional deportation flights out, it changes our asylum process so that people get a fast asylum screening, at a higher standard, and they get return back to their country. >> while members of the senate have been busy working on a border deal, members of house republican congress have been working on the impeachment of alejandro mayorkas, the dhs secretary. they put out two articles of impeachment, the first one is that willful and systemic

refusal to comply with what they say the law is, and the second one is a breach of public trust. neither of these have anything to do with high crimes and misdemeanors, which is usually the bar, like we saw, with the impeachment of donald trump. that's usually the bar for impeachment. alex? >> thank you so much for that. donald trump holds his first rally since 83 million dollar judgment, it's what he didn't say that is speaking volumes. we're back in 60 seconds. n 60 seconds es. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were

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liz? >> hi alex, former president donald trump briefly mentioned friday's verdict at his rally here in vegas. he called himself a victim, and said all the legal cases against him are part of in his words intellectual election interference. the throngs of supporters that came out to see him here told us that all of this is just making them more devoted to mr. trump. >> former president donald trump, out of the courtroom and back on the campaign trail. >> i'm the victim of it, that's okay. on the victim of it, and it's my great honor. >> holding a packed rally at in las vegas, one day after a manhattan federal jury ordered him to pay 83 point $3 million to writer e. jean carroll for defaming her after she accused him of sexually abusing her in the mid 90s. mr. trump lashing out at the jury's decision. >> look at yesterday, look at all this crap that's going on. that we keep marching forward.

>> reporter: mr. trump has vowed to appeal, calling the decision absolutely direct ridiculous, and in the case of witch hunt. his supporters rallying behind him. >> they allegations are just a bunch of bs, and i think he's gonna overcome it, and he's gonna win in 2024. >> he's doing gods work for this country, and this world right now. that's why i will support donald trump. >> he gets stuff done. >> he's about america, he puts america first, and he gets the job done and doesn't take no crap from nobody. >> i like what he's done, he doesn't take any crap from anybody. he gets it done. if he says he's gonna do it, by god he's going to do it. that's why like cam. >> if you study our past presidents, a lot of them were way worse than he was. >> also here in vegas, vice president kamala harris was here campaigning this weekend as early voting for the states democratic primary gets underway. those dueling rallies signifying just how important nevada is, both biden and trump campaigns, already seeming to look towards november to try to

win this critical swing state. alex? >> thank you so much for that. joining me now kristy greenberg, former -- deputy chief of the criminal division of svm -- and suzanne craig, new york times investigative reporter who is long covered trump's business ventures. -- in court for the e. jean carroll case on friday. i welcome you both. kristie, he didn't say your name at this rally yesterday, while referencing -- the judgment against him. did this tell you that this huge number is a deterrent? at least for now? and when does he actually have to pay up? >> at least for now, alex. he can attack the verdict, he just can't continue to attack miss carroll. that's what i think he will do. i think he will continue to attack the system, attacked the verdict, say that he is a victim of the justice system, that it's attacking him for political persecution, but i think he will stay away from attacking miss carroll because i think he knows if he does he

could get hit with yet another lawsuit, and he doesn't want to continue to have to pay. donald trump, mauve money matters to him, this was a significant number, and i don't think he's going to continue to push that boundary. he will always test the boundaries but now that they've been set i don't think he is going to continue to try to cross it. when we saw the gag order in new york he really did rain in his attacks on judge engoron's law clerk after that gag order was held at appeal. again, we will see what he does. as to the appeal and when he will have to pay up, he is going to have to post a bond if he wants to appeal. it will be a sizeable bond. so we will see. i do expect that he will appeal, and he will have to put up money in order to do that. >> suzanne, when a jury found donald trump liable for sexually abusing carroll, they awarded $5 million. this jury ordered him to pay 83 plus for the defaming her. how do you account for the discrepancy?

>> well i think a lot of it comes to his behavior in the weeks and during the trial, where he continued to defame her while it was going on. it was almost like every time he did it, the jury tacked on 1 million or $2 million. i think that's where you see the gap, it's just very willful behavior that was going on while that trial was going on. >> so kristie, if there's no shortage of drama in this trial, which actually isn't true because -- here's my how my colleague adam reese described trump's behavior on friday. take a listen. >> it was a tale of two realities in the 26 for courtroom. e. jean carroll's attorney roberta kaplan telling her story. she went on and on, and he just couldn't handle it. he was so furious he stood up and he stormed out of the courtroom with his secret service agents chasing him. >> that was some drama right

there, from a legal strategy point of view what do you think trump was going for? where did he miscalculated? >> i don't know that it was legal strategy. it's not clear that any good strategy could come from storming out of the courtroom while another attorney is giving a closing arguments. if anything you are drawing attention to yourself in a negative way. i completely agree that his decisions should continue to not only defame e. jean carroll both after the first trial jury verdict, during this trial while this trial -- is sitting and hearing evidence he's giving press conferences while he continues to defame her, and he also defamed her on the stand. he said she was made a false accusation, and that was stricken from the record -- but the jury still heard it from straight from the horse's mouth. he has continued behavior not just in defaming her but also his antics with the judge, mumbling and grumbling at

counsel table, storming out, not following the judges orders, this wasn't just about showing respect for miss carroll, and it was, but it was also about this jury sending a message about respect for the rule of law, respect for the judge, respect for the first jury, respect for this jury. i think they were looking to send a really clear message, and his antics hurt him, they did not help him. i think he was on his own worst enemy here. >> in fact, suzanne, trump spent this week sharing vital false narratives and statements about carole. let's try to count them, 42 on monday, 37 on wednesday, 16 more on friday, and by the way while he was in court, do you get the sense that the jury compensated carroll for his unbridled's out of control repeat offenses? >> it's interesting because when you mention the difference between the two amounts, the 5 million and the 83 million,

that screen says it all, i think that they saw it and they probably kept calibrating the number up as the week went on. i think so far it seems like they found a price of silence for donald trump, because he hasn't weighed back again in attacking miss carroll, not to say he won't, and i'm sure the second he does there will be another lawsuit filed. but so far it seems like that's the amount, it's a pretty high amount even for a someone like donald trump. >> absolutely, and the fact that he was in las vegas he probably had some sort of depths -- starts mentioning her again. that being said, kristie, judge kaplan also went out of his way to protect the identities of jurors in this case. how unusual is it for a judge to be cautioning jurors by telling them my advice to you is that you never disclose that you are on this jury. it's pretty sobering, considering. >> it's an incredibly unusual.

i have been in trials where there were violent crimes, where there were mobsters, murderers, and have not heard a judge make that instruction. but it's a smart instruction, he wants them to not only be -- but after the trial, for their own protection. look at what happened in georgia. in georgia, when the grand jurors there in that indictment was returned out of fulton county, the grand jury's names were made public and some of those jurors had their faces, their social media profiles, their addresses and phone numbers made public as a result, and with the suggestion that they should be harassed and that is something that the fulton county sheriff's office said we are aware that there are these online threats and we are investigating them against these grand jurors. you have a texas woman who threatened to kill judge chutkan, you have a bomb threat at judging go-rounds house and the day of closing's in that case. it really shows you that this torrent of online hate that gets unleashed after donald

trump speaks, is powerful. and so this judge was really trying to protect whether you are a juror, a judge, a law clerk anyone from being safe as much as they can from these online threats. >> very quickly, suzanne, what are you expecting from judge arthur engoron on wednesday. there's $370 million -- in the civil fraud trial. >> right, wow. that's a big number, and i think it will -- it's not gonna come in that 5 million or 80 million, it's gonna come in that 200 and 300 dollar -- we don't know exactly what it is that he said -- which would took it to wednesday. it could bleed a bit further. between the two of them, this is massive money, and you're even looking this weekend just add exactly how much donald trump has on hand. can he meet the e. jean carroll fine now? what about this larger one? >> can he? >> i think with the e. jean --

your 83.3 million, he has got enough it appears enough cash and crash equivalence, things that he can sell to either post that money. he's already put to 5 million up for the previous verdict, and it looks like he can either do that or he may see it go to bond, which is a complicated area. one if it comes in at three under -- the civil fine that he is facing in judge engoron's court, he is going to be looking at potentially asset sales or something if he wants to either paid immediately or appeal. that is a huge number, and he doesn't appear to have enough cash on hand to handle both if that civil fight comes in, where we think it will be in the 3 to 4 5 million range. >> suzanne, kristen, good to see you both. thank you so much. my next guest is a former cia agent, very familiar with the middle east. his reaction to the three u.s. service members killed in

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of the hour, this breaking news. three u.s. service members are dead, and many wounded after an unmanned aerial drone attack in northeast jordanust near the syrian borde the white house says the attack carried ouran-backed militant groups operating in syria and iraq. president biden saying in a statement to three american service members we lost were patriots of the highest sense, and their ultimate sacrifice will never be forgotten by our nation. joining me now is former cia officer and msnbc national security and intelligence analyst mark -- i know you spent a lot of time in this region. first up, your reaction to this news? >> this is terrible news for three families of american servicemen who have been killed. they were undertaking a noble mission in northeast jordan, this was a counterterrorism mission against i.s.i.s. in a very dangerous area. and certainly more on their deaths, but in some senses this

was inevitable because as you and i have talked on the show many times before that a lot of this -- our policy of deterrence against iran has failed, against iranian proxies. general mccaffrey said this last hour. so -- in this terrible day, and now the real question is, what is the next move by the administration, and clearly iran has escalated, and so what will the administration do at a time when really u.s. forces are going to be at risk? >> so was a red line crossed here, mark? this appears to be a significant escalation. >> that's right. we've had this kind of obsessive fear of escalation, which unfortunately has led to this. in some ways our red line -- and there's in my sense some immorality in this, our red line was the deaths of u.s. forces. this should've been handled much earlier. but of course arrest line has been passed, and i think you're going to see a lot of calls for a pretty dramatic response. iran has to feel some pain on this. does this mean u.s. strikes against iranian targets or

energy infrastructure perhaps. perhaps. perhaps things that we won't see, such as some cyber activity. ultimately iran will have to pay the price, and pay the price for this. >> what you're suggesting there, attacking in energy installations, cyberattacks, you're saying it doesn't necessarily have to be an over military response? >> sure. i think it can be a mixture of two, four of several different options, but ultimately iran has to feel some pain here, again our policy has failed. one of the things that i think -- and and understanding, okay, it hasn't worked so far. what can we do more now. of course there's gonna be fears of escalation with iran, but we have to understand that the iranians have to understand -- certainly in the realm of something far greater than what we have done so far. >> give me a sense of how concerned you are about the wider regional war we're getting into? >> in some sense, because we

haven't deterred iran, where at this point now. i think this sounds a bit counterintuitive but sometimes we have to escalate to de-escalate. we have to send a very strong message to get iran to tone down the use of its proxies, and don't forget what's happening in the red sea, you have an iranian spy ship directing attacks on u.s. naval vessels. i think we're going have to see something -- quite dramatically, which in some ways may ensure that this doesn't spiral out of control. >> let me ask you abou -- there is a new and exclusive nbc report says the biden administration is considering slowing some arms shipment to israel to try and convince prime minister benjamin netanyahu to somewhat scale back the military campaign in gaza. do you first of all see this happening, mark, or is it just intended to put pressure on netanyahu? >> right. i saw this and i was skeptical for a couple of reasons, not of the reporting, the journalists were fantastic to put this together, but this report was rejected by the white house,

rather quickly today. i think this reflects biden's frustration with netanyahu, so in some ways this leaking this report puts a bit of pressure on israel, but i don't think in any way the u.s. is ever going to withhold support. they were talking about 150,000 artillery or rounds, they're talking about kits for precision bombs, -- israel is facing some sincere tension with hezbollah in the north, so i don't think that president biden, who really has this deep emotional tie to israel the country, whatever go through with this. i think this is designed to put some pressure on the israelis, and it certainly caused a bit of a kerfuffle today in terms of the bilateral relationship. >> yeah, okay, mark polymeropoulos, always sobering talking to you my friend, but nonetheless glad to have you. the e. jean carroll verdict through the lens of a sexual assault survivor, next. t survivor, next ours?!

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>> nikki haley, have you ever heard of her? i didn't know she was still campaigning. she's still campaigning. she was just -- liz cheney, can you believe it? if liz cheney ever endorsed me i would say no i don't want that. >> nikki haley in donald trump wrapping up their attacks against each other as the next primary in nevada's next tuesday, but as the delegate count poses challenges for nikki haley, will she make it past south carolina? does she still have a path to victory? joining me now is political columnist and host of the podcast with friends like these, honorary -- and then mark leibovich, welcome you both. anna, i know you've said the in the past that kelly is a stronger candidate than people give her credit for and that a biden haley matchup and make you more nervous than a biden trump matchup, but as you can see it the odds seem stacked against her. do you still see a pass path

when she moves past south carolina and hangs on through super tuesday, march 5th? >> i think we've all learned that anything can happen. >> true. >> i don't want to say no, but it seems unlikely. i do think that she would be just as dangerous as a vice presidential candidate as she would be as a presidential candidate. i think that she's got a lot of people fooled into thinking she's a moderate. i think also her criticism of donald trump make people think -- somehow different from him in policy. i want to remind people that just because you are right about donald trump doesn't make the right about everything. her criticisms of him are on target, but her policies are incredibly similar to him. she presents as someone who is a return to the politics as normal. she talks like a politician that we recognize when the pre-trump era.

she is not a politician that we should have from the pre-trump era. i wasn't a huge fan of the republican party prior to trump, but she's not a return to anything, she's definitely somebody who represents the post maga republican party. >> do you want to place bets real quickly on the prospect of her becoming the vp nominee? >> i think that they're not zero, again it so hard, i was burned so badly. i think a lot of us were in trying to make predictions in 2016. i think she would take it if it's offered to her, and i think he will offer it to her. we can't believe a word either of them say, moving forward, about what's going to happen. trump will take anyone back into the fold if they suck up to him hard enough, and also halle is a crass enough politician she's not going to say no to a possible vp slot. she was critical of him before and she became's ambassador to the united nations, nobody is taking anything off the table about the two of them.

>> you run a remark about how hilly ramped up her attack on trump in the recent days, saying was a start, but was it too little too late or do you see a chance for her? mark, can you hear me? >> swoops, sorry. am i on? all right, we're good. unstable internet connection. i think it's a long shot, there's no question about it. i think i agree with ana marie, which is that i would just disregard anything she says in a quasi-rules out her at some point very soon joining the fold. i think an expectation about her despite some of her recently toughened rhetoric is that she will kiss the ring when the time comes, and that could come pretty soon. -- but look, she has i think since new hampshire which was now five days ago definitely sharpened her tax. she has gone to levels that i didn't expect her to do, i

expected she would sort of do a second place, maybe help me to be vice president sort of strategy, make her the party happy, you know from them, make donald trump happy, but she seems to be going the other direction which i guess i'm somewhat heartened by, i do agree with ana marie, i wouldn't rule anything out as far as her running back into the fold when the moment suter. >> of these two prospects, mark. of her kissing the ring to use your phrase there, and potentially being a vp nominee, versus having a chris christie -esque role for the remainder of the campaign, even though she is like chris christie, unable to continue running and campaigning for president. would she continue being a voice that calls out donald trump, because honestly she doesn't very well. >> she does do it very well, i've been sorted surprised by how well she does it. i would certainly bet on the cautious route on her part, she's very expedient, she's not

that old, she's in her early 50s and she couldn't run again if she feels like she wants to stay viable for 2028 or some kind of huge position. that seems to be more her dna. but chris christie has run -- unfortunately his race is over, and it's not going anywhere, and i can't imagine we'll be hearing that much more from him. it's kind of the addiction to appearing relevant, or appearing like a player in these races that she's going to be choosing from and she's a politician at the end of the day, i imagine she'll take a more political perspective on this. >> even if haley isn't and the non-in many, how significant is it that a woman was trump's biggest primary challenger and that she gave him a good run for his money, literally outracing him by $3 million through her super pac? >> i would love to read something into it, i would love

to say that is progress, but her actual policies are so retrogression of that it's hard for me to feel good about it. she is extremely pro forced earth as i would say, signs some very aggressive anti--- and she said that she would be for a national abortion ban if one came to her desk as president. she is anti-trans rights, she is, she tries to sort of hear this middle ground when it comes to anti-racism that i think if you really closely she's really not very dedicated to its, and i also think, and i think this is something i really want to say which is that you can be a victim of hate patriarchy or you can be pressed by patriarchy and still be a bad person. and still be someone who doesn't deserve to win. i think that's kind of what we're seeing here with haley, i also wanted to add that her attacks on trump in some way could be a real interesting bank shot for the trump team to make if they put her on the ticket, because who is trump

losing, who has he lost, we have the kind of written off, the suburban women. the suburban republican woman, her having been critical of him and being able to maintain some kind of way -- dangerous metaphor but a woman will kind of rolled her eyes at her own husband and be like you have to put up with him because we love him anyway, for all of his faults. she could kind of balance trump out in that regard, and make it seem like he is learning something or that he is learn something by putting her on the tickets and i think that's really dangerous as well. i want to say again, she is so good at pretending to be a normal politician, that's what i find her such a threat. i think someone else on the ticket, someone like vivek ramaswamy who ted cruz -- with even less charisma. i don't think that is going to do it for the trump ticket, i do think that he is probably

going to look for a woman, and i think it's a play. here in simple it's a play. >> i want to ask you this question of you, mark, and i'm gonna presume listening to honor that she would have no answer to this. haley's campaign will have any lasting effect on the party in terms of offering a different type of non maga female republican, versus a marjorie taylor greene, or lauren boebert? >> potentially, assorted depends how long she sticks around. i'm not of the believe that she's gonna stick around for long. especially when places like nevada role in, she's gonna -- it's going to be the kind of, the momentum i imagine we'll be mount against her. having said that, maybe although trump is such a one dimensional character, it's not like someone hanging around for the first few rounds of primaries is going to change the identity of this party right now, in any meaningful way.

this is a trump party it's, all about gratifying trump in some way, if he's willing to do that i guess you might get a look as his vp, i think that's very unlikely because i don't think trump is really gonna be open minded and mature enough about looking at someone who defied him, but i wouldn't rule it out. ultimately i don't think she is a big difference maker as far as changing or re-casting the identity of the party, at the stage. this is someone who has run a pretty savvy campaign, a pretty cautious campaign, but has outlasted a whole other bunch of people in a mediocre fields, and i guess that could be good enough to keep around for the next few years, but i don't see it as any big defining factor in the party -- at this point. >> i want to ask you, lastly, anna, about the e. jean carroll verdict. i know that you are a survivor of -- e. jean carroll's victory over trump's every survivors victory. tell us more about your reaction to this ruling, and the impact it could have

against voters? >> first of all, i want to say that this is something i think a lot of people did a good job of remembering when trump first ran, which is that he is a walking talking trigger for a lot of people who are survivors. i want to put that up front for people, that if you are a survivor, -- rain dot org is a great place to go for tools in your recovery. i want to say that i represent half of american women, and i think it's a third of men in being a survivor of some form of sexual violence. i think what really hit me about the e. jean carroll verdict is that i remember when she first wrote about this and she refused to call it rape, and she also talked a lot about how it wasn't that bad, right? and she said other people have worse, and i think that is something that a lot of people who are survivors tell themselves, it wasn't that bad and other people had a worse, i think that keeps us from it's

not just -- claiming your own story, i think it keeps us from healing, i think it keeps us from claiming solidarity and i think it also in my case seeing this verdict, i'm but with all my story all the time when i say that, when i say it wasn't that bad and here we have a case where the president is having claim of $83 million for reliving her her story, for talking down her story, for making fun of her first story, for saying things like she's not my type. for me is just a reminder that i shouldn't belittle my own story, right? that my story counts as much as anyone else that is a survivor, and that if i wouldn't want someone to talk down e. jean carroll's narrative, if i wouldn't want someone to discount her then i need to not discount my on. >> okay. i admire you for that, and i

admire you as well mark, as always. i'm glad to have you both, i'm looking forward to having you both on the broadcast again soon, thank you. >> the trouble at the southern border and the politics getting in the way of the solution, that's next. solution that's next. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. the chewy app has everything for pets. hungry pets, itchy pets, scratchy pets, and most importantly, your pet. every day great prices and 35% off your first authorship order. right to your door. download the chewy app. i'm jonathan lawson, here to tell you about life insurance right to your door. through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget.

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greg abbott is in india while here at home he continues to -- supreme court to install more razor wire at the border. civil rights organizations having condemned the wire another barriers particularly after a mother and daughter drowned in the rio grande after state officials physically blocked federal agents from accessing parts of that river. joining me now is clint stina -- president of next-gen america. christina, welcome. i know that you tweeted about the migrant death and they are on governor abbott's hands. explain that. why do you hold him responsible? >> greg abbott, he's my governor, i live here in texas. the entire time he's been in

office he's been using migrants and refugees can make a political point, score political points, and played political games with the lives of migrants. you just mentioned the mother and two young children that died, drowned in the rio grande river, when texas officials refused to allow border patrol access to save their lives, when they knew they are an in danger, the irony of greg abbott is that perhaps no state has benefited more from immigrants than texas, one and six texans are -- and some of the largest contributor to the republican party campaign also happens to be the largest employers of undocumented labor. something that he doesn't like to talk about, here in the -- republican party, half of the workforce is undocumented. more than half is actually foreign born. and so he should be using his position to call on the federal government to an actual long

term solutions, because we know we can build a system that actually protects american born workers, gives us and fills our labor needs, and protecting human rights, but that doesn't interest him. he needs a bogeyman, and the boogie man are migrants, including this migrther with her two children that owd because of his political policies >> what a tragedy that was. but they hill writes thh trump and abbott quote, have laid bare the gop strategy of campaigning on a broken border, even if it means defying supreme court orders or tanking a senate deal with a number of republican immigration priorities. do you sense any republicans have any interest in all in actual border immigration reform today, or are they more willing to let the border remain chaotic to try to win elections on -- >> that's exactly right. you see that when democrats came forward just this past week and almost came to a compromise, what did they do, they said no they wanted to pull back because they don't actually want to solve the issue, they don't want to

address the root causes of migration, they don't want to build a system that works, they want to constantly point to the border, point to migrants especially brown and black migrants, as a big bogeyman in the republican party so that they don't actually have to have real policies to run on, they don't they know that their policies whether it's on abortion, gay rights, the economy, are really unpopular with the vast majority of the american public. so it's easier to do that, -- we see the policies that china ran on in 2016, i think -- human rights crisis, and again when they don't address the root causes of migration we are just going to continue to see the numbers grow. we don't have to have a system like this, they are choosing to have a system like this one. >> you mentioned abortions. let's go there now, because a new report by a medical research journal found that more than 64,000 women and girls became pregnant after being raped in states that implemented abortion bans that route -- almost half, 45%, were in

texas. one of the doctors that coauthored that research says that rape exceptions in these bands can be essentially meaningless because of the reporting requirements. they're of course many reasons why someone might seek an abortion, but overall how worrying is this? >> i think this lays bare how out of touch and cruel the positions of the republican party and greg abbott are. greg abbott, when he passed the bill just a few years ago, that didn't even have an exemption for rape for abortion, he was called out about this he said we're going to eliminate rape in the state, and now look, it's just a new year later and we have the highest number of women being forced to bear children of their rapists. not to mention that a few years ago texas had a huge number of rape kits that hadn't even been tested, and the state was refusing to fund that, and it was crowdsourcing funding of testing those backlog of rape kits.

there is no priority, no intention to protect the rights of women to protect the rights of families, this is playing politics and ultimately it is just taking us back 50 years, and we have to remember texas was home to winning of roe v. wade, and so we are engaged in a long term fight not just in texas but across the country to make sure women get to decide what happens with their own bodies and we know it was a huge driver for young women, and women across the country's last election and, we know it will be again this election. >> christina, president of next-gen erica, thank you so much christina. two words that you never thought you'd hear, comes from barbara lee, and marjorie taylor greene have something in common. what exactly is this about, in the next hour. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh!

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