and mine. i approved this message welcome to prime time because this is who we are.

weekend, i am chris hayes. let's get to the weekend's top stories. 83 point $3 million, that is a lot of money. that's how much donald trump has just been ordered to pay writer e. jean carroll for repeating defaming her after she accused him of sexual assault. the jury spent four days hearing about what donald trump did, and witnessing his ongoing contempt towards but the proceedings in front of them, and e. jean carroll with their own eyes. carols attorneys had asked the jurors to reach a verdict that would stop them from further defaming the woman that he has been defaming and harassing for the last five years. today, after deliberating for less than three hours, the jury came through. they awarded carroll $73 million in emotional damages,

$11 million in reputational damages, and a whopping $65 million in punitive damages, which is there essentially to stop him from what he has been doing. such a shocking and divisive verdict against the ex president. even fox news cover the decision realtime, breaking the coverage complete with images of a triumphant carroll leading the courtroom with her lawyers. trump, for his part, who had been trying to dry attention to himself for the trial was, for this moment, nowhere to be found. he slings out of the back door while the jury was still deliberating, and headed to the airport where he responded to the verdict and characteristic fashion. ranting on social media from his plane. it should be said, the ex president did manage to refrain from defaming carroll in his response again. something got through. it is something that he has been unable to do following the first trial. he says the pledges to appeal, saying the president joe biden was somehow responsible for the

entire case. to be clear, he had nothing to do with it, this was a private lawsuit by e. jean carroll itchy filed in 2019. it was exactly that vitriol from trump that judge lewis kaplan was concerned about. they issued these notable parting words to the jurors who had just ruled against the ex president. quote, my [inaudible] -- the jury did not even need to address the basic validity of carols claim. the thing that started all of this when it published her book. she said the donald trump sexually assaulted her in a manhattan dressing room back in the 1990s. as judge kaplan instructed the jury, that allegation, this entire episode was already

determined to be true by another jury in trump's previous civil defamation trial last year. a jury that heard extensive evidence, and came to the conclusion that he was civilly liable for sexually abusing her. donald trump showed up in court this morning and spent his time in potentially huffing and puffing as carroll's attorneys made closing arguments to the jury. the ex president got so angry that he stormed out of the room at one point. as a lawyer from carole was describing him to jurors, a man who quote, the rules don't apply to him. that has effectively been the theme of this entire trial, if not donald trump's entire life. a man who, above all else, believes in his own impunity. you could say, it his own immunity has he is bored -- argued in one of his other myriad legal cases. this is a grown asked man that believes he's entitled to get away with anything. he's furious, and wants to hold into his account his own actions.

it's the same in the hollywood tape where he boasted, in graphic terms about grabbing women by their genitals. >> i mathematically attracted to beautiful women. i just start kissing them sometimes, i'm like a magnet. and when u.s. star, they let you do it. you can do anything. oh -- [bleep] you can do anything. >> it's a matter of fact, donald trump is currently being held to account because the judge instructed the jury in graphic terms, he's already been found liable of doing to e. jean carroll precisely what he bragged about doing on that tape. i mean that literally, grabbing her. the purpose of this trial, then was to get trump to stop lying about it. to get him to stop defending the woman that he had sexually assaulted. to find $1 amount so large, it would serve as enough of a gut punch with a man who ended the cycle of repeatedly defaming e. jean carroll, the woman who he sexually assaulted in the most gross, bullying, and

misogynistic manner possible. constantly for five years, trump has made this now 80-year-old woman's life in living hell. today, a jury determined that he will be 83 point $3 million poorer for it. today's verdict is due in the large part tenacity of e. jean carroll, who declared it a good victory for everyone. she stands up instead of getting knocked down. she stands out for everybody trying not to get knocked down. she has an impressive legal team with the win, key members of that team after the verdict came down. all leaving the courthouse after the verdict. that is e. jean carroll in the middle, with her lawyers robbie kaplan, on the right, and sean crowley. sean crowley joins us live here tonight. >> so great to be here. >> how are you feeling? >> i'm feeling good. >> you came into the studio beaming a smile that was clearly authentic, and coming from the deepest part of you. >> it has been a good day.

>> i guess first, did you anticipate this basically after the week that you had? >> it's really hard to predict what juries are going to do. i would certainly anticipate that they would believe e. jean carroll's testimony. did we expect that the punitive damages award be quite so high? i don't really know. the way that donald trump connected himself throughout this case and then throughout this trial, storming in and out of the courtroom. shaking his head, saying things very loudly when he was sitting in the back. leaving the courtroom to repeatedly defame miss carroll light the trail -- the trial was going on. the jury saw and heard all of these things. we expected that there would be some award that would be high enough that they would think maybe we should actually penalize him and get him to stop doing this. >> it was my next question about his behavior here. you're not a psychologist, you just have to deal with him.

did you have a tactical posture. honestly, about what to do about this? i can't imagine as a litigator or prosecutor, you have ever face quite something like this. have you? >> people don't do this in courtrooms. they just don't. >> usually, people that come into courtroom for child's day for the trial. they don't wipe out furiously. you don't come in and say things when the jury can hear them. i haven't encountered anything like this before. >> i guess the question becomes, to the extent that there is any method to the madness. i don't think there is, i think it is just incontinent ability to self regulate. what you do with it as attorneys, and how you kind of keep on track, was there a strategy for that? >> our strategy was just to really remember that we were in a court of law, that we were trying this case for the jury and in front of a judge. i think that donald trump's strategy was much bigger than that. he wasn't as concerned with what was happening in a court of law and he was much more concerned with what was happening with his followers

and fan base and at his rallies. we just try to focus on what we were actually doing and not get too distracted by the antics going on outside. >> i want to show an image that one of our producers took a picture of this evening. i think we have it. i don't know if we do. this is outside trump tower here. 83.3 million, keep talking, loser. that was chalked outside the trump building there. i tell me about -- okay, what happens next year? his lawyer came out and said we have great grounds for appeal. obviously, lawyers always say, that they always say they will appeal. obviously, you get an appeal under due process the same way you might do in a criminal case. what is the next step here? >> we have every expectation that they will appeal. we feel very good about arguments on appeal. actually, as you said, there was a trial last year about the

actual sexual assault and another defamation. there, the jury not only field that he sexually assaulted her, also ordered jean carroll $5 million. that case is already on appeal, that the money has been paid into the court. once, we hope, we win the appeal, that money will go to miss carroll. this piece, likewise, will be appealed. we feel confident in our arguments, and obviously, she will collect that judgment. >> this is a little minute, but i want to get into it. there is always some sense, it's always like the roadrunner about never falling. is he going to have to pay up? to my understanding, the procedures are basically in escrow, so you have to pony that money to some account until the appeals done. is that correct? >> that is basically correct. >> so unless he wins on appeal, he is going to have to pay this money? >> he is going to have to pay a large portion of this money before he even winds on appeal. it has to be there to be

certain that it will be there when we win the appeal. and after we hope that we are victorious on appeal, he is going to have to pay. >> can we talk about the pace of this? this starts in 2019. one of the things i was talking about on this program tonight was about the cliché that the wheels of justice grinding slowly but exceedingly fine. you've been a lawyer, working in back to max. i mean, i'm just kind of awestruck by the endurance of some level. four years of the life, e. jean carroll. what's your conclusion about how long this takes to get this accountability? >> so, in this case has been very long. but sort of for extraordinary reasons. e. jean carroll sued donald trump or something that he did while he was president, for defaming her while he was president. and because of that, he defended the case for many years, basically saying, first, he got the department of justice to intervene on his behalf. that didn't work. and then he claimed, you can't sue me for something i did while i was

president. then he claimed, well, i made those statements, but i was acting within the scope of my employment as president. >> it was my official duties to say, to lie and defame this woman who accused me of sexual assault. >> that took a while. it wound its way through the courts in new york, it took a detour to d.c. for a while, and then it came back, the other case actually move extremely quickly. >> because, just to be clear, people pointed out this, the first thing is e. jean carroll publishes the, book president defames her. she sees him. she says, i want to go into a court and prove this allegation i'm telling the truth and you are defaming me when you say i'm lying. he used all the powers of the presidency to protect himself. and then he gets out of the white house, and what happens? >> a few days before his deposition in that case, in october of 2022, he defames her again. he says, basically the same thing. and by that time, new york had actually passed a law that allowed survivors of

sexual assaults that had happened a long time ago to sue, it opened a one-year window where they could do that. so e. jean filed another lawsuit in 2020, to suing him both for the underlying sexual assault and his defamation in october of 2022. that case was filed november, thanksgiving, date or the day after, of 2022. and it went to trial last may. >> this one comes back around. he is no longer president, whatever civil immunity he may have had is gone. so i, know you can understand why a person who has just had an 83 million dollar judgment would love to be president again with the cloak of legal protection that came from the past, just a note. ultimately, what is the lesson here, though, about accountability? >> i hope and i believe very strongly after today that the lesson is that actually no one

is above the law. and that your behavior and your statements and your threats and your lives are going to catch up to you someday. >> i have to say, i have not had an opportunity to meet the client but i am completely in awe of her fortitude and insurance, endurance, and ecstatic on her behalf. i think you've said this, i think she would traded to not have been defamed in the first play. here are two takes that you need to watch for contacts on today. donald trump, the access hollywood tape, it is deposition in the first trial between e. jean carroll, the first case that e. jean carroll -- >> the reputation she has now is really ruined by donald trump. which he really wants is to be that journalist and advice columnist before she lied about her. >> sean crowley, you and -- have done amazing right.

well done for the victory in that perspective. great birthday gift. primetime weekend continues ahead with joy reid. ♪ ♪ ♪ but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. in order for small businesses to thrive, nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yup, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network. give your business a head start in 2024 with this great offer. plus, ask how to get up to $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet.

here are two takes that you need to watch for context today. donald trump, the access hollywood tape, it is part of the deposition in the first trial between e. jean carroll, the first case that e. jean carroll brought. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. it's like kissing them, it's like a magnet. just kiss. i don't even wait. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything, whatever you what. grab them by the -- you can do anything. >> that's true with stars. >> it's true with stars that they can grab people by the (bleep)? >> if you look over the last million of years it's been largely true, not always, largely true, unfortunately, or fortunately.

>> do you consider yourself to be a star? >> i think you can say that, yeah. >> i'm gonna go to the lady on my panel, april ryan, the reality is that this man said that and then became the president of the united states. i just want you as someone who's absorbed his attacks and knows what he's like up close, give me your thoughts on that, the fact that he became president, and the fact that he's poised to be the republican nominee? >> one, we forgot the tic tac, he uses a tic tac before he goes in on women, that was part of that infamous tape if you will. it's sickening to hear as a woman, taking the journalist hat off, as a woman, it's sickening to hear. he views

women, particularly pretty women, as a piece of meat because he's, a celebrity, a reality show celebrity, someone who has trademarked and branded his name. as someone who's taken the heat, continues to absorb the heat from the quote unquote, millions who live in their mothers basement. i think of two pieces of today's verdict by the jury, who showed that no man or woman is above the law, the $11 million a punitive damages, the $11 million to -- reputation. that's not even enough, not even enough. once donald trump puts his name, puts his name in your mouth, it's over, you're attacked, death threats, et cetera, you lose your home, your life is not the same. $11 million is nothing. but that 65 million a punitive damages to

punish, show that he is -- so many things wrong. he has defamed her, to make him hurt, for him to stand up and walk out of that courtroom, having an adult temper trying trump, he's hurting. the question is, will he have to pay this after appeal. i talk to armstrong williams, he said what he's put to pay is no attention to this. >> let me actually bring glenn and, the question is if he was a regular american who owed child support or taxes, the government would just take the money. but he's donald trump. how does e. jean carroll get the money that she's entitled to go >> good news, it is that there are appeal boxes that can be

put in place to make sure there is money there to satisfy this 80 20 million dollar damages that the jury handed down at the end of the appeals process. we all know the process can take some time. unlike when someone is putting last bond to try and get out on bail, ordinarily, they put up at last -- the court is ordering by way of bail. however, when it comes to an appeals bond, joy, or ordinarily the majority of appeals in civil suits are a firm. that makes this really challenging for donald trump. in order to get an appeal bond, he will likely have to put up most for all of the $83 million. so there is a pot of money that can be paid to e. jean carroll at the end of the appeals process. he'll have to

put it up either in cash, wasn't he bragging, that he has $400 million on hand? i'm betting he doesn't. or he'll have to put it up with property and i can only wonder how much equity he actually has been some of the properties he owns. you know what, there is going to be a pot of money and e. jean carroll's lawyers have been determined, they've been dog a, will continue to fight to make sure this appropriate money judgment to get satisfied. >> that is good news, good to know. you know this man, he's not been accused of being a sex pest by e. jean carroll. i'm in a put up the numbers here. the number of women who have accused him of sexual misconduct, jessica leaves -- i can go on and on. all the way down, all those women. here is the way he has responded to some of these up accusations. here's donald trump shaming the women that have accused him.

>> she said i made inappropriate advances. by the way, the area was a public area, people all over the place. take a look, you take a look, look at her, look at her words and you tell me what you think, i don't think so, i don't think so. >> when you looked at that horrible woman last night you said, i don't think so. i was with donald trump in 1980, i was sitting with him on an airplane. and he went after me on the play. yeah, i'm gonna go after you, believe me, she would not be my first choice, that it could tell you. you don't know, that would not be my first choice. >> sounds like exactly said about e. jean carroll. >> he is dehumanizing, castigating women in general is clear. i think what one needs

to look at, me as a new yorker that grew up in new york, as donald trump did. donald trump sold this brand that he was this brilliant businessman. and that he was like the great gaspé. i think today we're seeing where he will become more like the wizard of oz, when we look behind the veil, the curtain. the wizard has no clothes. primetime weekend continues ahead with alex wagner. ♪ ♪ ♪ but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. you want to see who we are as americans? i'm peter dixon and in kenya... we built a hospital that provides maternal care. as a marine... we fought against the taliban

and their crimes against women. and in hillary clinton's state department... we took on gender-based violence in the congo. now extremists are banning abortion and contraception right here at home. so, i'm running for congress to help stop them. for your family... and mine. i approved this message because this is who we are.

as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪ ♪ ♪ last spring, california governor, gavin newsom, went to florida to meet with students from new college, the school that's become the focus of governor ron desantis anti-woke crusade. he traveled thousands of miles outside of his home state to meet with voters in alabama and mississippi, and utah. in december, governor newsom went to -- ron desantis on fox news.

yesterday, he was in south carolina talking to voters at morris college, a historically black college. i know governor newsom is hitting the campaign trail in nevada and of primary voting in that state. if you noticed, this is a tour of red states, it's one that the governor is doing as an emissary of the biden campaign, to tell voters what is at stake in november. and yesterday, while in south carolina, i have the opportunity to speak to governor newsom about that work. we talked about the upcoming election, about his party's messaging, and about reproductive rights. we also talked about donald trump's dominance over the republican party and the way trump is running his campaign this time around. it's clear, his ground game, it's way better than it was in previous election campaigns. they've racked up the endorsements, they have a stranglehold on the republican party, they get out the vote campaign, it's unmatched

especially in the republican primary. is that cause for trepidation? >> no, look what we got, we're performing every single election, outperformed. by significant margins in every election, 2018, 2022, 23. not just at the national stage, when we look at these mayors racers in jacksonville or colorado springs. and every election democrats are winning. it's one of the great winning streaks in modern american politics for an incumbent president. i think jobs has an impact in terms of the framework, the reality out on the streets. >> the latest stats, 64,000 women and girls got pregnant from rape in states where there are abortion bans? >> and texas was the worst. >> you're the governor of a large state. do you think these republican governors who oversaw these bands either did not care or didn't understand? >> i don't think they care. >> that's republican women. >> it's disgraceful, it's sick. here's the problem with the

republican party. they're always getting in trouble when they get what they want. in a six-week ban, before you even know your pregnant, before you can get a doctor's appointment, criminalizing young kids, that were raped for trying to travel so that they can have a life, the freedom to decide for themselves, versus guys like tim scott, lindsey graham, who need to go through and ask permission. it's a serious moment, they're coming after contraceptive as well, that's how extreme they are. that's not me idly saying, it's a fact. i know you have strong feelings on this. >> a lot of things i think. (laughter) >> yeah right, insert subject here. i think a lot of people recognize what donald trump did to the supreme court, to make the overturning of roe possible. however, if he's asked about it and on national television, he lies about it, he is very mushy and it is working with a certain section

of the electorate. it's, in new hampshire, trump wins 80% of republicans who wanted a national abortion ban. and 44% of those that don't. similar kind of thing in iowa. he's getting a pass on this. short of saying over and over again, how do you further convince skeptical voters that this dude really stands for the end of choice as we know? it >> over, and over, and over, and over again we have to flood that message. we can't be allowed to get away with that, he can. we need to go aggressively. >> i'm not here to argue in trump's flavor. i'm saying some people don't believe he's in favor of a national abortion ban because their member has begun position being pro-choice. >> in a second he would sign that bill if it landed on his desk, period, full stop. >> i'm not arguing against that. >> he's responsible for the state of affairs, we need to define the opposition and create that contrast. we need

to flood the zone to remind people of his record, the reality that we're living here today in the fear that women and girls have in this country because of the conditions that he directly created through his actions. and that's our job, that's my job, it's our collective job, it's not joe biden or kamala harris's job, that's what the campaign is about. >> you know what it's like to run a big campaign a deal with donors, ask them for money. if you're a haley donor, are you looking and saying, yeah, i'll give you a couple more million dollars? >> you saw that trump tweet. >> you're not gonna be invited to maga camp. >> it's like thuggery, it's so predictable. >> we're like schoolyard petulance. >> it's a child-ness to it. i really believe this, he's a weakness masquerading a strength. and our primary, he's a t-rex, he will devour you where you meet with him. can't be beat in a primary, but in a general election he's the most flawed candidate in my

lifetime. he's damaged goods. he's not as entertaining as he once was. he's more unhinged than he ever was. and he's more dangerous across the spectrum. visit entire campaign -- i don't think that will hunt this year. i think he's much weaker than he was in 2020, 2016. he's a force to be reckoned with, i never counted this guy, this was -- the nominee. day one i've been saying that, it's been said, he's a very vulnerable candidate. >> i do need to ask you. we hear from the polling, anecdotally, one of the issues that the biden administration has lost a lot of footing, confidence, young voters, of voters of color, it's a key to the president when and they're upset -- and gaza. you've watched some of our, i know you're not in the

administration but do you think they made a misstep there? >> watch it close-up. i went to israel. i met with president, prime minister right after october 7th, i saw the videos, those unredacted videos i can't get item i had. i applaud the presidents clarity and conviction as it relates to hamas being a terrorist organization that needs to be eliminated. that said, this is me speaking, not on behalf of anyone else, i'm a father of four, you can't watch these individuals, what's happening in gaza without your heart breaking. and with respect to bibi netanyahu, i met, for him to double down on top stupid by suggesting that two state solution is not the solution that's preferable, it's a huge tactical mistake, not political situation for the united states of america, but globally. it has profound consequences. i appreciate president biden's clarity, and conviction on that. i also appreciate's clarity and conviction to end

the war. primetime weekend continues just ahead with rachel maddow. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. after advil: let's dive in! but...what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. ♪ on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears! thanks to always ultra thins... with rapiddry technology... that absorbs two times faster. hellooo clean and comfortable. always. fear no gush.

(rachael) i live with a broken phone i can't trade in. (female friend) hellook, that's dramatic.able. a better plan is verizon... (rachael) oh, yeah. let's go! (vo) new and existing customers can trade in any samsung phone for a new galaxy s24+, watch and tablet, all on us! that's up to $1,800 in value. only on verizon.

as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪ ♪ ♪ joining us now, i am

very pleased to say, is nancy pelosi, former house speaker of the current speaker america. madam speaker, so much to ask you, we're glad you can be with us here tonight. >> my pleasure, thank you. >> you have been invoked in this current discussion we are

having, i'm sorry to say, the former president and campaigning in new hampshire did repeatedly try to attack you over the response to the january 6th insurrection at the u.s. capitol building. his opponent, nikki haley, made a lot of -- trying to attack you he kept using her name instead. we heard what nikki haley thought about that confusion, that statement by donald trump. i don't know what you thought about it, i'm curious? >> wow, let me just say, i'm not gonna spend too much time on donald trump's cognitive disorders. but what i am gonna say, i want to say -- he try to say that nikki haley did not allow the national guard to come but it was nancy pelosi. it was nobody, it was donald trump, he knows and you know, that mitch mcconnell, chuck schumer, and i begged for hours from the national guard to

come. he knows that we don't have the pardon to bring the national guard, the president does. it's sad to say -- every other state the governor has that power. so, i'm more concerned about what he was trying to accuse her of, again, his many respects and misrepresentations. don't spend so much time on him, we don't agonize about him. we organize. joe biden is our nominee and he's gonna be again -- kamala harris is gonna be president and vice president of the united states. it's now the time, the intensity has arrived. the election year is here. as you've seen, folks have come over from the white house, -- two stars of the political arena and our country are joining, julie chávez, she's done a great job as the campaign manager. she has the

biggest record of money raised for a presidential campaign. more importantly, she is mobilizing at the grassroots level, organizing and coming now together with a message to go forward. the message, when he lies, he's a constant liar, of when he lies sometimes you need to listen to him. for example, he lied and said, obamacare sucks. to use his kind of language, obamacare sucks. listen to when he says that, of course it doesn't, in the campaign people have to understand that their well-being is on the ballot, whether it's a woman's right to choose, which yesterday it's the 51st anniversary of when that became respected in our country, and to his judges pull back down and he brags about that. he says he's gonna terminate the affordable care act, what does that mean to you, if you have a pre-existing condition, a child, if you

still need health care, if you're being a woman, being a woman is no longer a pre-existing condition, the list goes on and on about importing care. people need to understand, listen when he speaks, he does not have your interest at heart even though you may not, i respect as you see here interest. but i make sure that you know how you're affected by some of what he says, whether it's guns, climate, whether it's a woman's right to choose, whether it's health care. in 2018, people said to me, were you lucky that health care became the central issue of the campaign and that's how you won 40 seats to win the house. i said no, we weren't lucky we made our own luck. let's get on with that, let's forget about him and his dysfunction, and understand that we need to get out our vote, we need to mobilize, on the ground, we need to message and the interest said, public

sentiment is everything, with it you can accomplish almost anything, without it, practically nothing. we need to have the financial resources, joe biden has proven that he can attract that message, mobilization, money. joe biden, great vision, great knowledge, great strategic thinker, great legislator. a person with a big heart and great for the american people. primetime weekend continues ahead with my colleague lawrence o'donnell. coming, up the brilliant award-winning writer director, avery duvernay, has taken the brilliant award winning -- " the origin of our discontent " and turned it into the most beautiful, moving, a new film called " origin " it's an honor to have a vote over nay joining us, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ lu,

but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too.

as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪ ♪ ♪

isabelle wilkerson was a pulitzer prize-winning journalist when she first appeared on this program to discuss her book " the warmth of other sense " when it was on its way to becoming a bestseller it deserve to be. i said that it was impossible to understand america today without reading " the warmth of other sons ". in 2020, she returned with a new book of even bigger scope that challenge us to see ourselves in history a new. that book " caste: the origins of our discontent " it one isabelle will could send another pulitzer prize. it was in that book where i learned that the not study eight american segregation as a marvel for how they should purify german society using repress laws against jewish people. once again, i found myself saying, you cannot understand america

today without reading -- the origins of discontent. ava duvernay has been the magic of turning the book into the new film "origin", starring -- alice taylor, and the role of isabelle wilkerson, traveling the world to find those origins of our discontent. here she is in a scene. >> the principal was furious, he tells his secretary to check my records. and of course, they confirmed that my legal name is miss hale. so, he says to me, hail, i don't know any hail, from around here, where is your father from? and i said, he's from alabama. and he said, i knew you weren't from around here. you know how i know? and i said, no, and he said, real cold, because you're looking me in the eye, colored folks around here know better. i was,

i was scared. >> joining us now is emmy winner, peabody winner, bafta winner, globant globe winner, ava duvernay, writer and director "origin" of. eva, thank you for joining us tonight. it is not just because i love audra, and i've worked with her a couple decades ago, an amazing actress to work with. but that scene is emblematic of the book, and of the movie in the way that it opens your eyes to something you did not live and then you recognize instantaneously that of course, of course, looking in the eye, they would not do that. and it's one of those astonishing eliminating moments from this film.

>> that scene, it does exactly what you described, what you're getting at, what i feel when i wrote it and put it on its feet with audra and ingenue, the interiority, the intimacy of caste, and what that does to the individual person. we could deal with this cultural phenomenon, this anthropological thesis at large, but really what we try to do in the film is to humanize attendee very specific about its damage to the individual. >> i want to go to another scene because it's not in the book. this is -- working with nick offerman, again, in a scene that teaches us something

that we cannot find anywhere else. this is a reach, we watch -- reach across the divide that most of us cannot figure out how to reach across in any way. let's look at the scene. >> my money -- mother died a few months ago. what about you.? he's your mother still alive? >> no, no she's not. died in 1991, 52 years old. >> goodness. that's not old. that's not old at all. >> sure ain't. >> your father? >> he's 78. >> we are lucky to have him. >> he's as mean as they come. >> eva, once again, that's your

seat, that's not from the book and you found a way of showing us how those two people could be in the same room and have that communication that i think most of us would not be able to find. >> yes, i was guided by a similar experience that isabelle shares. i think putting the scene on its feet within the film, as an artist, i need to find how it fits into the larger story that i am telling. "origin" is in a straight adaptation, it's about the life and work of isabelle wilkerson. i'm interested in her process, her intellectual quest, this woman globe-trotting around the world, thinking through the big problems, contemplating history and trying to understand it's context. it seems like that take on a new vibrancy. and this was a pleasure, a puzzle to figure out.

>> ava duvernay, thank you for joining us tonight. a real honor to have you here. >> thank you so much, appreciate it. this has been prime weekend, i'm lawrence o'donnell. tune into the last word at ten pm eastern weeknights on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ dy been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. we really don't want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it's amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer's dog is just our way to help people take care of them. ♪ if you try vaping to quit smoking,

it might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good.

as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie.

and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch join t mobile providersople taki for your business.cy but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? did we peak your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. >> well, a lot has happened since the new hampshire primary