and president obama gave her the presidential medal of freedom. fans will remember rivera as anita in west side story. she was the original. she was rosy in bye bye birdie and velma kelly in chicago. her daughter said in a statement she died peacefully in her home in new york. she was also indeed a star of screen. she was known for television and movies but if you never saw her perform on a broadway stage, either here or in london, you missed something. she was 91 years old. and that's going to do it for us this hour. join us every weekday, 1:00 to 3:00 eastern here on msnbc. our coverage continues with katy tur reports right now. >> good to be with you. as hamas and islamabad consider the outline to an extended cease fire, president biden is trying not to start another war. one that would

region and drag the united states even deeper. the issue is what to do now that three american soldiers are dead. the president says he holds iran responsible and has made a decision on how to respond. is it the right decision? what can he do to balance risk? secretary of state blinken says no one wants escalation. is that true of iran whose leaders call for death to america? in the atlantic, american policy toward iran has failed because it has always taken a segmented approach to the iran problem, defining it as a hostage problem or freedom of the seas problem or a nuclear problem or an iraq problem. but rarely as what it is. an islamic republic of iran problem. joining us now, nbc news pentagon correspondent and traveling with the president in

miami is mike memoli. all right, so courtney, the president says he's made a decision. what do we know about what the pentagon proposed for him? >> we know that it was a wide range of options here. there have been several times in the past several months in fact where there have been attacks by these iranian backed groups that have yielded american injuries including one where one u.s. service member was seriously wounded and medevaced out. in those cases, the u.s. has responded with very targeted air strikes. so, for instance, if it's an attack by a drone, they'll go after a warehouse where some of these groups store their drones or put them together. sometimes they'll go after launchers as we've seen with the houthis in yemen. what's different about this is this is the first time americans were killed in this recent back and forth. officials are saying this response will look and feel different. we should think of something that will be larger in scale and it will send a little bit of, it

will send a stronger message than the ones we have seen in the past. but the reality is what we are hearing here is the president, the pentagon and u.s. central command in tampa are all still working through specifics of their options and their targeting. i got to say, we are hearing this is going to be you know a phased approach. meaning different waves of responses here. maybe over the course of some amount of time. but i don't, i still don't get the sense anything has been decided with any kind of finality yet. >> let me ask you about the family members. those who lost their lives. we're just hearing that secretary of defense austin is going to attend dignified transfer at dover of the remains of these soldiers on friday. have we heard from any of their family members? >> we actually spoke with, i spoke with the parents of one of the young women who was killed last night. i believe our colleagues have as

well. they're heartbroken. you talk to these people and they're families are in shock that they've just lost this loved one. in some cases, they didn't really realize they were deployed and didn't necessarily know what tower 22 was or if they were serve tlg. they were army reservists. they were in an engineering brigade. so i think they're still in a state of shock here. president biden has reached out to the family. the dignified transfer is a really remarkable ceremony. it occurs at dover air force base. it is a meticulous, very solemn event where the remains of service members will come back. the family members are always invited to be there to see it. sometimes they allow media. sometimes other dignitaries like the president and secretaries of the services will come to see the event, but it's a quiet, solemn event. it's really emotional to see and so now we know that in fact president biden and secretary austin will go this week. >> and the army has just

announced that sanders and moffat have been promoted to sergeant. let me ask you about the president and what he's weighing. there isn't a lot of appetite among the american public for getting dragged further into a conflict in the middle east. >> that's right. we talk so often in a presidential election about the advantages of incumbency, being able to travel around the country on air force one to command the media spotlight whenever you'd like. this is a clear example of the challenges, the burdens of incumbency. the president having a commander in chief moment, but one with a lot of risk. the president making a decision earlier today when leaving the white house about a potential u.s. response. knowing that he can't necessarily predict how that response will be met and the potential consequences of it. we've seen throughout the country and at the president's events, the frequent demonstrations and protests about u.s. support for israel

and the fight for gaza. that is one element here which is going to be a challenge for the president. the other is simply a matter of the commitment of his time. i've heard from campaign advisers about the fact we're at a moment where they want every minute they can of the president's time to try to as we are in this general election phase of the campaign. but as the president is really being incredibly focused on these very complex international challenges, that takes away from it. he left the white house later than expected today. as courtney just mentioned as well, the president, john kirby confirming he will attend that dignified transfer in dover, delaware. we saw the visuals when president biden attended for those service members killed in afghanistan during the chaotic withdrawal. that's an image that certainly underscores the visual, the solemnness of being commander in chief, but one in which his political opponents have used against him and one the president is grappling with at all times. >> thank you very much. joining us now is -- also

retired four star general, general mccaffrey. also an nbc military analyst. so, general, courtney gave us an outline of what the president was presented with. can you bring us into the room and help us understand further? >> i've been in a lot of national security council meetings in various positions. invariably, something to get to the nfc has a series of lousy options and that's what the biden team is now facing. i think it is clear, deterrence has failed more than 160 attacks on u.s. forces. the response has been deliberate, calculated, has not worked. it's affecting international trade. the u.s. naval force is under attack in the red sea. syria, iraq, jordan, all orchestrated by iran. so the question is what can we

do. and there's no two ways about it. military power is a terrible way to signal resolve. diplomatic power can do nuance. military power does not. so, he's really forced to take a military response that is painful to the iranian. doesn't have to be just over military action. it could be crypto. covert action. economic constraints. but it's a difficult position, no question. >> militarily, what are the risks in that region and specifically with iran? >> probably significant but the iranian are not looking for an all out war with the u.s. if they do, it would be catastrophic to their economy, to their nuclear development program. they're on the verge of having viable nuclear weapons. i don't think they want an all

out shooting war but they're correctly assessing what's facing biden. domestic, political campaign for office. a hesitation to take any definitive action. i think what the president will be forced to do is to give almost unlimited authority to all deployed u.s. forces to take aggressive, preemptive action over time when they feel a threat is coming. not just fire at a warehouse where allegedly rockets were assembled. so, we clearly have to up the game or else withdraw these forces. 160 attacks, we can't say it's just when you finally kill some of our soldiers that we'll respond. we have to respond to the threat. >> joel, let me ask you about what elliot cohen wrote in the atlantic. argues for a different approach. says what we've been doing so

far, and general mccaffrey said this as well. hasn't been working. a wholesale change to the approach toward iran. what do you think of that? >> well, i love to see someone define what it exactly means. does that mean invading iran? a country more than twice the size of iraq with what troops? what ability to actually confer a change in the regime, which is i think where he's heading. i think he's right at the big picture that there's a strategic problem with iran. i would argue though quite frankly that we have blown our diplomatic agreements with iran, particularly the nuclear agreement which unconstrains nuclear program and gives them almost a day's notice to get to nuclear weapons. so we need to think bigger about our diplomacy while we're also protecting our forces on the ground. without a doubt, our troops have to know that the commander in chief has their back and is

protecting them as biden has been doing is taking strikes at the appropriate moment. i don't think there's any appetite for a massive regime change policy towards iran right now here in the united states. >> do you think if the iran deal was still in place we would not be in this situation? >> first and foremost, iran would be much weaker. there would not be an iran on the verge of a nuclear weapon and there was the nuclear deal still in existence. that donald trump move, one cannot overstate how damaging that was to american diplomacy and our word in the middle east. you know, countries around the region with looking at us saying what's your staying power? united states, if you're going to go around and confer and create diplomatic agreements, is the next guy going to come in and rip them up as donald trump did. that was deeply destabilizing. so it's not as if it would resolve all the issues with iran, but it would have taken the one single greatest potential threat out of iran's hands and right now, they're very close to a nuclear weapon

because of it. >> what about our allies in the region? saudi arabia does not get along with iran. what can, is there something we can do more with our allies, diplomatically or militarily with the help of the countries surrounding iran who aren't particularly pleased with the leadership there either? >> yeah, i think frankly, we have a lot of allies in the region who are acting responsibility. look, compare how egypt and qatar are behaving now. two countries with deep connections to the palestinian people. rather than doing what iran is doing, they're trying to deconflict and try to create common diplomacy in the region. iran is trying to stir it up in exploiting this moment. there are many countries who want american leadership. they want u.s. troops there. they want us to engage diplomatically to calm the region down and i think we have a lot of opportunities to do this decon fliks. we see it forming. it's going to require engagement further with israel as part of that, but certainly, we have a

lot after allies who are looking at us and asking us to do more to calm the region now. >> general, what are your thoughts on that? >> i tell you, i think particularly when it comes to our allies, i probably have a slightly different view. where is egypt? jordan? saudi arabia? saudi arabia clearly has a truce. does not want to disrupt it. the egyptians are dead set against overt support for palestinian civilians moving into sinai. the jordanians yesterday denied that the attack actually took place inside their country and said it was in syria. so they have all disappeared. countries with great wealth. with powerful armed forces that could be part of a secretary blinken inspired you know, pan arab receivership for gaza. they're nowhere to be seen. so i think part of our challenge has been we're acting unilaterally. the other one, we have got to go

back to this. hostages and the october 7 attack on the israelis, hundreds murdered, raped, tortured, abducted. netanyahu, who has terrible political standing inside israel right now, is still by and large supporting the aspirations of the israeli people to make sure hamas is not in charge in gaza. so the negotiations are going on in paris and in cairo. it's hard to imagine how the israelis will accept hamas being in charge of gaza and the reconstruction when the shooting stops. and it will stop. probably in the next month. >> general mccaffrey, we will see. joel, thank you very much. and still ahead, will hamas accept the cease fire for hostages and what about benjamin netanyahu? you just heard general mccaffrey talking about it. will he accept the deal? and what secretary mayorkas just

said today in response to an imminent gop vote to impeach him in the house. plus, trump in his own words. what he says about the border when he's president and what he says about the border when he's not. we are back in 60 seconds. s not. we are back in 60 seconds. a pop star,... and a tight end all have in common? they all got this season's updated covid-19 shot to help better protect them against recent variants. got it? ♪♪ ♪♪ got yours? (rachael) i live with a broken phone i can't trade in. ♪♪ (female friend) ok, that's dramatic. a better plan is verizon... (rachael) oh, yeah. let's go! (vo) new and existing customers can trade in any samsung phone for a new galaxy s24+, watch and tablet, all on us! that's up to $1,800 in value. only on verizon.

a senior hamas leader says he will travel to cairo to discuss the cease fire proposal which offers a 60-day cease fire in return for a phased release of the remaining hostages. joining us from tel aviv, raf sanchez. so hamas is considering it. what is israel doing right now? >> reporter: we heard from netanyahu earlier today. he was visiting a settlement in the occupied west bank and he's playing hardball. he said that he will not release thousands of palestinians convicted of terrorism charges

from israeli prisons as part of any agreement. now, that has been a key hamas demand. part of the reason they took hostages in the first place is they want to see their fighters, their leaders, out of israeli prisons. there may be some wiggle room here. the proposal hammered out in paris is for the civilian hostages to be released. potentially you could see israeli civilian hostages released in return for lower level palestinian prisoners but if israel wants to get those soldiers being held in gaza out, it is very, very likely that it is going to have to release pretty senior terrorists from israeli prisons. the language netanyahu used today coming a couple of hours after one of his far right cabinet members said he will walk out of the government if netanyahu agrees to a deal that he does not approve of. so the prime minister is under real pressure right now from the

far right not to be making concessions to hamas. from hamas' side, we heard earlier today from the political head of hamas. he's outside of gaza. he says that he is studying this proposal. not accepting it, not dismissing it outright, but he did repeat hamas' repeated claim that any cease fire deal has to be permanent. there has to be an end to the war if israel wants its hostages out. a senior official making very clear to me today that is not something israel is going to agree to. if there's going to be an agreement there's going to have to be some kind of meeting of the minds as an official put it, somewhere between a permanent cease fire, temporary pause, which is what israel wants. so we will see in the coming days whether the leadership on both sides can accept this framework. >> what do we know about the

remaining hostages? >> reporter: well, we know there's about 130 in total. not all of them are alive. around 20 or so, israel believes, are already dead. most of the women and children released already. there are still two very young israeli children. the brothers who hamas has claimed were killed in an israeli air strike. israel's not confirming that. they are the only kids unaccounted for. there's around 19 women. a larger number of civilian men. and then you get to soldiers who as we said are going to be, going to bring in a much steeper price in terms of palestinian prisoners released in exchange. >> thank you very much. and a cease fire could not come soon enough for the nearly 2 million palestinians who have not been able to, who were forced to leave their homes. for many of the injured, evacuating gaza is their only option for survival.

our correspondent joins us from an airplane in egypt. transporting those in search of aid. >> we're in gaza, fifth month. and behind the casualty number that we hear most often, almost 27,000 people have been killed according to the ministry of health there, is another number. the number of injured and those who are critically ill, unable to access care. and this is why countries like the uae are organizing nursing flights like this one where they retro fit commercial airliners, in some cases, collapsing seats to accommodate stretchers for patients that are unable to walk unaided and who need these hospital bed installations inside their flights. now we are at the military hospital in egypt. about a 45-minute drive from the rafah border crossing. some of these patients whose names appear on lists have been waiting for evacuation for several months.

they are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. about a four-hour flight and from there, they will be taken to hospitals in the uae for further treatment. some of the people here have delayed their care for so long that the road ahead for them will be extremely challenging. this is happening against the backdrop of renewed hopes for some sort of longer term cease fire. that will certainly be welcome news for the tens of thousands of people who are in need of critical medical care just like the patients behind me on this flight. >> thank you very much. and coming up, president biden has vowed to shut down the border if a new deal gives him the power to do it, but can he? what dhs is saying about that proposed authority. and taylor swift is what? the conspiracy theories that are taking over conservative media. .

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when the house homeland security committee votes on articles of impeechl, the secretary won't be there. instead, mayorkas submitted a seven page letter to the panel saying their false accusations do not rattle him and do got divert him from his work. joining us now, nbc news

correspondent reporting on dhs, ryan nobles with what's happening on the hill, and david noriega at the southern border. david, what are you seeing there today? >> reporter: hey, katy. so there's a big gulf the way the border exists and gets talked about in washington, d.c. and the way it exists on the ground. i'm at the border now. the international boundary line is down the middle of that river according international treaties. that means the moment a migrant crosses, they are legally entitled. there are remnants everywhere of the heavy traffic that this part of the border has seen. here on the ground for example we have lots of clothes, backpacks, other items that migrants discarded once they made it to this side of the river. we have some shoes that belonged

to a woman or a child. a woman's bra. a lot of signs that people who make this dangerous journey are women and children. even though this is heating up a lot in d.c., today here on the ground, it's relatively quiet. i will say there's some tension over the possible arrival of a convoy, what is described as a convoy, of far right trump supporters who are due to gather here at the border sometime between friday and saturday. it's not clear how real that is, however, we've already found a couple of people here on the border who came from houston, which is more than five hours away, in anticipation of seeing this convoy. i interviewed one of those people and she said something i want you the hear. okay, so there is a -- i'll tell you what she said. she told me this is a hard core,

trump supporting, texas conservative who said she believes if someone has a real situation of desperation for them leaving, they should be allowed into the united states. just not a criminal or terrorist. that is the position that is to the left of joe biden and the democrats who based on what we're about to hear from other reporters in d.c., are trying to gain the authority to expel every asylum seeker on to u.s. soil. it's one of the things that shows you the extent to which there's a big gap how this gets talked about by the parties and politicians and how it gets absorbed and talked about by regular people here in borden states and communities on the ground. >> thank you. let me go to ryan. talk to me about what you're seeing on capitol hill today. there's this deal to try to get something done but at the same time, the house is rejecting the senate deal and then also trying to impeach the homeland security secretary. what are they accusing him of

doing? >> first of all, pretty far removed from what david's dealing with at the border. i think we're crystallizing this in this report. first, we'll start with mayorkas. we're in the midst of a marathon hearing. a mark up on resolution that would begin the process of impeaching him. republicans arguing he is not rightly enforcing the law and doing it willfully as a way to allow more illegal immigrants or undocumented migrants into this country. this of course something the democrats are pushing back on and it comes against the backdrop of negotiations happening in the senate of which mayorkas is a part of where they are very close to hatching a deal that would give the administration more authority to deal with some of these issues happening every single day at the border and stem that flow of migrants coming into the country. in fact, senate majority leader schumer said on the floor they are nearing the finishing of

this package. on one side, you've got negotiations trying to solve the problem. on the other side, you have partisan bickering over the way the situation is being handled. the sum total is they're just locking heads and not much progress is being made. >> at the same time, you have the president of the united states saying if given the authority, he will shut down the border. julia, you have exclusive reporting on what dhs is saying and questioning whether the president would even have that authority. >> i talked to current and former dhs officials who say they're deeply concerned about this idea of shutting down the border. what they're referring to and what biden's referring to is a mechanism by which if the numbers got too high, they say for example if it got to 8500 in a given day, we've seen many, many days in 2023 that were past that number. that dhs would be forced to shut down the border, stop taking in migrants. the question is, where do the

migrants go? mexico. mexico could have to take them back. we know so many now are coming not just from central america, but from countries like venezuela. colombia. even africa. the middle east. all this would have to be absorbed back to mexico and right now, we don't know of any deal between mexico and the united states to start taking back more than they are. the negotiations between the u.s. and mexico, they're not even at the point of talk about numbers or any kind of funding the u.s. could give mexico for these efforts. basically, the officials are worried this political messaging, if it turns into something they're going to have to carry out, could lead to a lot of chaos at the border and more to back us. if you think pack to when we used to talk about immigration waves under the trump administration like in 2019, one of the biggest problems was the massive back ups. people out in the sun. people left in such tight cells they couldn't even lie down to sleep. these things could happen again. saw it also under title 42.

people being push back into mexico. out in the streets. kidnapped. something mexico doesn't want to happen again. you look back at history, anytime you blocked people from being able to move out of those border areas, it's been a humanitarian disaster. and that's what they're worried could come again and in fact, the president of mexico also said in remarks he thinks this is political bluster and he's not going to get very upset about it until he sees this come to fruition. >> it's amazing to potentially have a deal on the table after so many years of everybody begging for one, especially the republicans, and have that deal get scuttled because there's a person in the race who does not want a deal for his political benefit while campaigning. let me ask you about the other thing that's happening in congress. there's a bit of a to do over representative cori bush. what's she being accused of and how is the doj involved? >> the department of justice is investigating cori bush and the

use of funds either campaign or taxpayer funds, to pay for her own personal security. bush says she's never spent a dime in taxpayer funds to pay for her own personal security but there's some question about how her campaign finance funds were used. we know that yesterday, the department of justice asked the sergeant at arms for information, for documents, through a subpoena request. and the sergeant at arms asked the clerk to read it on the floor of the house so other members could be informed of it. bush responded to the accusations, acknowledged there's an investigation, but said she did nothing wrong. >> i have endured relentless threats to my physical safety and life. as a rank and file member of congress, i am not entitled to personal protection by the house and instead have used campaign funds as permissible to retain security services. i have not used any federal tax dollars for personal security

services. any reporting that i have used funds for personal security is simply false. in recent months, right wing organizations have lodged baseless complaints against me. peddling notions that i have misused campaign funds to pay for personal security services. that simply is not true. >> that's important to keep in mind that she hasn't been charged with anything. she's not under indictment. this is just the start of an investigation and she was separately cleared in a congressional ethics probe which we believe was around this topic. so at this point, this is just something that cori bush is dealing with and she said she will comply with the department of justice. >> ryan, thank you very much. julia, david, appreciate it. after the break, president trump versus candidate trump on the border. and he's going to remain on the ballot in illinois but not because the elections board think he's qualified. don't go anywhere. s board think he's qualified don't go anywhere.

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leading the fight to ban congressional stock trading. and the only democrat who opposed wasteful “earmarks” that fund politicians' pet projects. katie porter. focused on your challenges - from lowering housing costs to fighting climate change. shake up the senate - with democrat katie porter. i'm katie porter and i approve this message. former president trump says the senate's bipartisan border deal which the president said he would sign was quote, unnecessary. that's when he was president. excuse me. he said he didn't need a big, complex, democrat oriented border bill which will make republicans look bad. i just close the border and have by far the safest border in the history of our country. but that's not what he was saying when he was president

back in 2018 when he consistently asked congress to bring him a border bill. >> the only long-term solution to the crisis and the only way to ensure the endurance of our nation as a sovereign country is for congress to overcome open borders obstruction. that's exactly what it is. it's open borders obstruction. >> joining us now, nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent, garrett haake. let me be clear because i bobbled that intro. what he was saying was that it's unnecessary when he was president, he didn't need anything, he just did it. but you heard him in 2018 saying he needs congress. talk to me about what he says on the campaign trial versus what he says when he's president and why that matters. >> he also shut down the government because congress wouldn't give him the money he so desperately wanted to build a border wall. i think you're seeing the changing dynamics around border and immigration more generally

in 2024. trump has pifrted away from the economy and has started talking about the border and the actions he would take as president including to deport millions of people who have come into this country illegally and are waiting on decisions like amnesty, excuse me. things like asylum requests over time. so you are seeing a pure political shift that trump is leading and that house and lesser degrees, senate republicans are starting to follow. saying no, in fact, we don't need border legislation or even hr 2, the center piece of house republicans really pulled time in washington here. the border bill they passed last year that's gone nowhere. they're saying we don't need this. it's up to joe biden and oh, by the way, we'd love to see donald trump pick this issue up again. >> you cover donald trump, capitol hill. can you help me understand the dynamic on capitol hill and whether republicans think it's a

good idea to kick this can down the road and allow president biden and the democrats to say they passed something? >> for as long as i've covered congress and predating that, there has been two issues when it comes to addressing legislation. number one, it is really hard. it's very complex. it deals with state law, federal law, international law when it comes to asylum seekers. there's a lot that goes into this and it's very difficult to do. secondarily, it's an excellent issue to run on. both parties over time have found different reasons to use it as a wedge issue. most recently and really going back to 2014 and around that time period about a decade ago, republicans in particular have found it to be a far more effective issue to run on than to be seen trying to actually just in some meaningful way through legislation and so this is an issue which john cornyn, the senator from texas once told me, congress has never failed to fail on addressing immigration.

trying to do it in big pieces has almost always been impossible. trying to take little bites of the apple. micro changes to immigration has been the preferred approach to immigration over the last couple of years. and even it might be too big to pass particularly in an election year when all of a sudden, the politics of the border get jacked up to about an 11 in campaign ads and talking points on the trail. >> thank you very much. coming up, what maga conspiracy theories are claiming about taylor swift. this is a lot, folks. plus, what one state election board just said about trump's eligibility. reminder. the supreme court is about to weigh in. reminder the supreme court is about to weigh in all on us! that's up to $1,800 in value. only on verizon.

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please call or go online right now to give if operators are busy, please wait patiently or go to loveshriners.org right away the illinois state board of elections ruled that former president donald trump will remain on the state's ballot today. this suit was one of 15 pending challenges across the country. challenges that could all be settled by the supreme court, which will hear arguments regarding the colorado supreme court decision to kick him off the ballot for insurrection next week. joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian. i was reading the decision. i'm hoping you can help me understand what the state board

said. were they, did they say they didn't have the jurisdiction to rule on this? this should be in the courts? or did they say that donald trump didn't participate in insurrection? >> the former, katy. exactly right. this state board of elections is split evenly between four democrats and four republicans and they decided that they just didn't have the jurisdiction. one of the republican board members, this is really interesting. said quote, there's no doubt in my mind that he, mr. trump, manipulated, instigated, aided and abetted an insurrection on january 6th. this person also said however, having said that, it's not my place to rule on that today. and the board's decision came after a hearing officer at that courts and not the election board should decide on that. it's worth noting that was also a republican retired judge in response to a petition filed by five voters who argued mr. trump is ineligible under the civil

war era provision who bars anyone who took the oath to support a constitution and engaged in insurrection or rebellion from holding office, katy. >> the supreme court will take it up next week. what will happen thursday? >> that just confirms that the u.s. supreme court is probably going to be the ultimate decider here. the arguments this this colorado case as you said will take place next week and the opinion many legal experts believe could be out before the march 5th super tuesday primary and obviously if the supreme court rules that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to mr. trump or that it does apply, none of these state decisions will matter. but there is a chance that they throw it back to the state so they may matter. >> all right, ken, thank you very much. coming up next, why is conservative media so upset about taylor swift?

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have you ever wondered why or how she blew up like this? well, around four years ago, the pentagon psychological operations unit floated turning taylor swift into a an asset during a nato meeting. >> you heard that right. that is fox news wondering if taylor swift is a defense department asset. joining us now the bulwark writer tim miller. thanks for joining us to do something kind of different today. the reason that we're talking about this is because it's not just jesse watters on fox news floating this theory trying to explain taylor swift's global popularity by saying the defense department is behind it as 23 they could ever do something that well. but it's all over conservative media. all over conservative social media, as well, this idea that taylor swift and travis kelce and the super bowl is all part of an elaborate plot to get joe biden elected.

>> yeah, katy, everybody gets a little crazy sometimes. i think they might to touch a little grass. here's the problem, this is not just like a joke. some of them, there's always tongue in cheek with -- on the right with some of this stuff, but there's a conference happening right now as we speak in las vegas put on by turning point usa that conservatives need to push back against. there is a deep state opponent about travis kelce and taylor swift's relationship and how they're going to help joe biden. it is obviously insane but i think it speaks to the fact that inside that maga bubble, they are always the aggrieved. everyone is always out to get them and they always have to be counter the dominant culture so as a result you end up with insane stuff like this and i think who knows what jesse watters believes but if a lot of

people end up feeling it might be true -- >> is taylor swift, her popularity and if she chooses to endorse president biden is it that much of a threat? is that she effective? >> i don't think so. it doesn't hurt having her out there doing voter registration helps. taylorary first political endorsement was phil bredesen running for senate. she doesn't have any magic potion but i think there's a conspiratorial mind, anti-elite feeling. there's a bit of misogyny element involved i think shouldn't go unmentioned but, you know a lot is they need content to feed the outrage machine, and this is the one they're going with this week, i guess. >> not just her but travis kelce was in a pfizer campaign promoting the covid vaccine, so now you have conservative media going after a pop store who was

a country music star and going after a football player from a popular midwestern city. this doesn't seem on paper to be what you would expect. >> who would thought the democrats would have football and culture music in a culture war. we're in unchartered territory. if joe biden was planning an opponent he probably would have put taylor together with someone in the eagles, but i think that like the reality is that none of that -- logic doesn't have to matter here. right? what this is is this primal area that says we're dominant about the culture so have to act out. whether it manifests itself in football or vaccines or being told to stop a deadly pandemic or could be the fact that the little mermaid is no longer

white. whatever it is, they have to react against it and i think taylor swift and travis have gotten the reaction this time. >> i wonder -- i don't have enough time to continue the conversation, i wonder, the desire to accept conspiracy if you're going to accept it on taylor swift and on the election was stolen, you know, where are we headed is a larger question we could explore later. tim, thanks for joining us. always good to have you. that is going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hey, everyone, it is 4:00 in morning, i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. we await claims in the january 6th case. it could come at any minute. there is right now a chorus of voices picking apart each of the argumentsse