the moment president biden gave sanders parents the news over the phone. watch this. me >> i know there is nothing anybody can say we're do to ease the panic. i have been there. >> yes sir, we understand. >> i just want you to know that more in my prayers, in my heart. i know you don't want the press out there when they return the body, but with your permission i would like to be with you, if that's okay. >> we would love for you to be. there >> we would be honored. >> and by the way, or promoting her posthumously to sergeant. >> oh wow, that's the best news i've heard today. thank you so much. you don't know how much that means to us. >> as we heard there, president biden the dignified will attend

the dignified transfer on friday. to the families of the fallen, we are so so sorry [crying] for your loss, and we are forever grateful, for your sacrifice. and on that very sad note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see with the end of tomorrow. tomorrow >> the matchup of the year is set, and it's a rematch of 2020, the same thing even, the red team versus the other red team. that's right. the kansas city chiefs are set to face off yet again against the san francisco 49ers in super bowl 58. okay. all right. if you thought that was a wind

up to the likely battle between president biden donald trump in 2024, it is also that as well. and that is because, bear with me here, a segment of right-wing media is convinced of the kansas city chiefs qualifying for the super bowl this year is actually a vast left wing conspiracy. this plot all centers around the relationship between kansas city tight and travis kelce and superstar musician taylor swift. a relationship the right way now believes is actually a deep state conspiracy to elect joe biden. i am not kidding. more >> taylor swift, a government psyop? now it is possible that taylor swift does not know that she is being utilized in a covert manner to swing voters. >> last year a single instagram post 1 to 35,000 new voter

registrations. >> 45,000 battleground state votes in the last direction. >> wow. >> there is that poll were 80% of the law electorates as they would follow her endorsement, and three out of ten people under 35. >> isn't it interesting. she's just so happens to be dating the kansas city chiefs travis kelce, better known as mr. pfizer, also going into the super bowl. let's be real. here is bread and circuses on steroids. >> former presidential candidate vivek wamah swaby describe the conspiracy this way. i wonder who's gonna win the super bowl next? months and i wonder if there is going to be a major presidential endorsement coming from an artificially propped up kabul this fall? okay, first of all, the kansas city chiefs have made it three of the last four super bowls. so the fact that they made it again this year is not only not a conspiracy, it is not even surprising. even the people who only watch football once a year, like me.

but beyond that, the idea that the u.s. government tricked taylor swift into getting political with a deep state psyop, that idea ignores the actual verifiable reason taylor swift decided to go public with her politics in the first place. here she is in the documentary miss americana, talking about why she decided to make her first ever political statement in more than a decade of sane. >> these aren't your dad celebrities, and he's argued as republicans. >> we've got this idea that we could have the number of people become next year. >> from a security standpoint, taylor swift comes out against trump. >> i don't care if they write that. >> there was taylor swift in 2018. right after that scene, taylor swift endorsed a democratic competitor to republican marsha blackburn in the tennessee senate race. miss swift knew that she could

lose fans over that decision. but this wasn't about popularity. and it wasn't because democratic deep state -- she got political because, it seems, she actually cared about the issues. there she is talking about why she couldn't support marshall blackburn in that senate race. >> it really is a big deal. he votes against their paper, against the reauthorization of the violence against women act, which is just basically protecting us from domestic abuse and stalking. stalking. she thinks that if you're a gay couple or even if you look like a gay couple you should be allowed to be kicked out of a restaurant. it's really basic human rights and it's right and wrong at this point and i can't see another commercial and see her disguising these policies behind the words tennessee christian values. those are in tennessee christian values.

i live in tennessee. i am a christian. that's not what we stand for. >> so that is why taylor swift waded into politics. and that is why, in 2020, she endorsed joe biden for president. and it turns out getting political does not seem to have her taylor swift. in the years since she endorsed biden in 2020, she has gone on what is arguably one of the most successful tours ever. all around the globe she has been selling of the biggest venues imaginable. her concerts are so popular that the federal reserve says her tour literally boost of the national economy. so why can't the right believe that taylor swift is just naturally popular and naturally believes the things she believes? why can't the right believe that the kansas city chiefs got to the super bowl because they're just really good at football. why can't they believe the two popular foxy celebrities might just want to date each other? well, usually when somebody comes up with the conspiracy

theory it's because they don't want to believe the truth. in this case the trump team don't want to believe her grossly unpopular how unpopular their policies are. and instead of changing their unpopular policies, they are doubling down on them. we see in poll after poll, that upwards of 60% of americans in abortion exist is incredibly popular new reporting out of politico today shows the right-wing organizations are already drafting executive orders for trump to sign on day one if he is reelected, orders that would outlaw the most common form of medication abortion, and byron marathons from be able to get abortion medications in the mail. while 57% of americans say they would not vote for donald trump if he was convicted of a felony, rolling stone is out with new reporting this week that donald trump is plotting a way to give presidents legal immunity for life, assuming he is reelected. the list goes on.

well a majority of american support the affordable care act, trump says he wants to repeal it. the majority of americans didn't support trump's 2017 corporate acts cats. trump says he wants to pass a new round of them if he is reelected. republicans don't want to own up to the reality that their ideas are hugely unpopular and that what they are doing right now, today, is making their party more and more unpopular every day. so rather than accept the reality the right has created its own reality. and in doing so, the right is kind of telling on itself. this isn't just a stand-alone conspiracy theory here. this is part of the big lie. trump allies are laying the groundwork to claim that if they lose, if trump loses, it's not because the party dug itself into a hole by pushing unpopular policies. it's because taylor swift is a deep state asset. it's all rigged. in ways you can't imagine. it's because the famously

liberal pentagon's rigging the famously liberal nfl. it's hugo chavez in the venezuelans flipping the votes. it's italian satellites hacking the vote. come on. it's a paraphrase taylor swift, i'm sorry republicans, but you are the problem. it's you. joining me now, new york times pinion columnist in nbc political analyst michelle goldberg. michelle, there's so much to talk about here. first of all, i'm not a professor in sociology or american culture, but it seems to me that when you're fighting the nfl and taylor swift, you are losing. >> but i think this is part of the republican party and the conservative movement is the take in this apocalyptic turn, is they believe america is in decline and that they are losing purchase over american institutions. they've turned against all sorts of institutions that they once revered. you hear them talking about the

military being weak and work. they want to dismantle the fbi. it's not the first time they've turned on the nfl. they've turned on the nfl during the george floyd protest. they were already angry with travis kelce for taking the fight for advertising the pfizer vaccine. there's two things going on here. on the one hand, they sort of have this oppositional defiant disorder to anything that is popular outside of their own weird million. but then there's also, i think because taylor swift and travis kelce exemplify the type of american couple that the sink should be conservative -- >> should be theirs. >> they should be there's, the fact that they are not, we don't know what travis kelce's politics, are but i can't imagine that any of this as endeared him to the republican party. but the fact that people like this want nothing to do with them is such, it feels like a

slap in the face. maybe it's the inverse of how we felt when kanye west decided to delight hitler. >> but kanye west and his artistry aside, and i know there are a lot of ye fans in the world, we're talking about forsaking bud light, delta airlines, the super bowl, the nfl. i mean, not only is it bad politics, i think it has a structural effect on the party. the smaller you make the republican cohort, the larger you make the democratic tent. >> i think it's bad politics, but it's good media strategy, and that's what's driving the bus these days in the republican party. i'm hardly the first person to suggest that the republican party now is driven by these media personalities whose interests are obviously not in policy, not in, i mean, not in some cases really in winning elections. it's in clout. goodbye going after taylor

swift they drive a lot of clicks, everyone's talking about it. and they even sort of borrow, in a dark way, some of her refractured glory. because they've inserted themselves into the taylor swift narrative. >> but i do wonder, it's not just about this narrative being clickbait. it's also, i mean, it speaks to a larger central problem with republican politics. it's as if they don't understand why women and young women are fleeing from the party as they harass, effectively, taylor swift. and at the same time, quite substantively, and making plans to outlaw maps are pristine and effectively curtail the reproductive freedom of women all over the country. >> i think taylor swift, in a lot of ways, exemplifies this, why they are so angry at women. you have this person who has this kind of very wholesome seeming background, starts out

is a christian from tennessee, as she says, turns out it starts out as a country music star. and then as she matures, as she learns things for herself, develops the same sorts of political ideas that a lot of young women developed when they are confronted with the various restrictions of matriarchy, and writes the song if i were the man, all the double standards that she has faced. and so they see her as, even before all this, they have seen her as this pied piper to young women. even though her songs, she sings mostly about romance in conventional heterosexual relationships, but still the fact that she is single and unapologetic, or was single, the fact that she's unmarried, the fact that she is the person in this relationship with the bigger career, whatever football fans seem to think, it in rages them. she is a symbol to them of

neurotic women who refuse to conform to traditional roles. >> i agree with you that i think the economics of independence is one thing but i do think you're sort of first point about how she represents the betrayal, she dating a football star. she's dating the tight end, is that right? the tight end of the kansas city chiefs, going to the super bowl. this is red state america. she is not denying them that win by being unabashedly progresses or democratic or whatever you want to call. it and that, to them, must be destroyed. i've got to ask you because i was listening to as reclines podcast and they were talking about what the democratic party has become in with the republican party has become. for all intents and purposes, the democratic party is an anti maga coalition. it is a fiercely united composition for democrats. i think it's adorable in a way that the cult of personality

around donald trump falls apart when donald trump is gone. when you think about it this way, and for everybody who is worried about what happens in 2024, what has been built here by both republicans and democrats is a coalition, a broad coalition focused on policy, not on one particular person, that is incredibly incensed and engaged with what the republican party has become. >> i hope so. count me as someone who is worried about 2024, but i also do think it's true that in as much as the democrats can become the party of normal people, quote unquote -- >> people who like football, airlines, beer, taylor swift, that's all people, isn't it? mostly? >> there was some conservative influencer who said we have ted nugent in kid rock, and that says it all. >> yeah, scott bail. you're missing scott bail. when you when you forsake disney, bud light, taylor swift,

football, delta airlines, and you're resting on scott bail, ted nugent, to the upper case of bud light, i think it's a sign of the times. thank you for joining us. michelle goldberg. lots to get to this evening including president biden's vow every palliation in what exactly that means. and donald trump's financial faith. it's in the hands of judge in new york's new information marches about the trump organization's messy financial records. more on that after this. oh yeah it's what i doea it's what i do

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i've seen the cash, we've got a lot of cash, i believe we have substantially in excess of 400 million cash. >> $400 million, that is how much available cash he said his business had as of last spring. there's no way to verify that figure and there's no particular reason we should believe mr. trump. but one thing we do know is that we -- he may need at least that much money or more to pay for the verdict he is facing in multiple courtrooms. he is now on the hook for $83.3 million which actually ordered

him to pay writer e. jean carroll for defaming her. at any moment, we could get a judgment in trump's civil fraud trial where the new york attorney general is asking for him to be find 300 and $70 million. the judge in that case has already found that trump committed fraud and has even oh suggested that he may force trump to liquidate his businesses as part of his ultimate verdict. as we await that judgment we are learning more about mr. trump's questionable business practices. outside monitor appointed by judge engoron named barbara jones has chest found several issues with trump's business practices. including missing disclosures math errors in questions about 48 million dollar loan between mr. trump and one of his companies. there are issues that that excite monitor says may reflect a lack of adequate internal controls. joining me now is justice department reporter and coauthor of the trump trials newsletter.

it is indispensable, over at the washington post. also with me is former federal prosecutor christine greenberg. christine, the new york times reports on this barbara jones finding about questionable business practices accounting practices adequate internal controls. they say this is precisely the data point that the judge may fixate on if you will to really call for trump to be fined a sizable amount of money. do you think that is an accurate analysis? >> i think it goes to other i don't think it will go to the fine amount. i think it will go to weather this lifetime ban this corporate to whether not this should be a real estate again. one of the things the court is looking at is what is the likelihood of a future violation of this company, and to whether or not there should be a lifetime ban from trump for engaging in real estate again. so here, judge jones, now the independent monitor, is saying actually, you don't have a compliance department. you never did an internal investigation.

you had a cfo who pled to fraud, a controller said he aided and abetted in front. you didn't fired them. you gave them handsome severance packages to not cooperate with law enforcement. and then, i am looking at him and finding all of these errors, all of these disclosures that are incomplete or inconsistent, and you don't have a framework where i can feel confident at the monitor that you are not going to continue to do this if i don't have my oversight. that seems like a very logical conclusion given the fact that they haven't fixed anything about how their organization is set up and what these internal controls are. >> right, if you have deemed that the trump organization has committed fraud and then in the current day, is still sort of practicing fast and loose accounting schemes, then potentially you say, it is time for you to hang up your stuff and go home. but the ap has a report, it really interesting report, on how unusual it would be for a judge to order something like that in this case, given the fact that there is not a

showing of obvious victims and major losses. i will read the expert. and ap analysis up nearly 70 years, several cases under the law, shows that such a penalty has only been imposed at doesn't previous times. and trump's case, it stands apart in a significant way. it is the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of, again, obvious victims and major losses. this is sort of the argument that trump's lawyers have been making to the court, isn't it? >> it absolutely is, and it speaks to, i think, a basic disconnect between what the court system, including the independent monitor, barbara jones, is trying attention to, and the way that the trump organization has worked for decades. that is, the trump organization is, in some ways, multimillion dollar organization that operates like a mom and pop grocery store, and a lot of what the independent monitor, barbara jones, a former federal judge, i might add, is flagging

the fact that this is not a large company that behaves like a large company, this is a large company that behaves like a family small business, and she is finding what she thinks are problems in their accounting, and what the trump organization is saying and reply is, this is nonsense. you are quibbling, you are focusing on petty things, and it is unfair. and that is the basic conflict in this issue. >> i mean, they have also said, oh barbara jones is trying to make a case for us to continue using her services by saying that we are not doing a good job. >> which makes no sense. taking a step back, trump recommended barbara jones to be the independent monitor. >> she was agreed upon by both parties. >> yes, she was agreed upon by both parties. she is a former federal judge. she is not seeking to enrich yourself here. i think in the papers, one of trump's lawyers said that she was -- from layman's, and this

obsessive police officer who is seeking to go after bell sean. it's like, donald trump isn't belgian. billion stole a loaf of bread, he is engaged in persistent front that is found by the judge. and so, this idea of trying to malign judge jones, i mean, that is not going to work. she is independent, she is not on either side. she is calling it like she sees at. >> you know, devlin, i think when we talk about -- i mean, the penalty here, there is the $370 million, but the ending of the business in new york would be a devastating blow to donald trump scheme -- ego and his pocketbook. this is not the only hit he is taking. there is more reporting from the times that he has spent $50 million in donor money on legal bills, and i just wonder -- i know you are reporting on many of these trials. first of all, given how prolonged this calendar is getting, how sustainable do you think it is from a sort of inflow outflow perspective? >> well, i think it is really important of a point, because i think what you are seeing is,

we are great now in the moment where the legal costs of being donald trump our eclipsing his political operation. up till now, what we have seen is his political operation funding his legal bills, including some of the penalties associated with the e. jean carroll case. but when you see the $83.3 million verdict, when you see the expected engoron decision, which is likely to be a lot of money as well, what you are seeing is there is no way his political operation can absorb the costs of those things. so, right now, what we are seeing is very important because it is the moment when the cost of his political career is impacting his business life, and he cares a great deal about the money. so what we are seeing, and i hope people understand, is that this is now starting to bite in a way that his political career has never bit and his business life before. >> yes, and by the way, the thing that i think he feels the

most is the pain in his wallet, right? more than the moral -- of it. he visits upon the american public. kristen, when we talk about the road ahead and where the lawyers will be needed the most, the federal interaction -- election interference case has been -- since december 13th, which is a long time. i think the hearing was on january 9th, but still, some people thought this was kind of a pro form exercise. like, this is a ridiculous claim, it will be over soon. we still haven't gotten the decision. can you talk a little bit about whether there might be a strategy in all of this, and, you know, it seems almost certain that this isn't going to happen in march. with every day that goes by, it seems it will not happen in april, either. >> i think we are looking at late spring, maybe even early summer. >> what is spring to you? is that when the clocks go forward or when we are wearing shorts in new york? >> [laughter] i think it is when hopefully

this will be before the supreme court and we will get the supreme court decisions that later in the spring we are having this trial. that is my hope. i think, look, i didn't think it would be so quick. i thought we would be getting a decision from the d.c. court of appeals sometime this month, tomorrow is the end of the month. so, we are getting close to this point where you are hoping that it will come out with a decision soon. it's a decision they know will be scrutinized. it's a decision of a matter of first impressions, and they want to get it right. you probably are looking at three judges who are trying to figure out how to be unanimous. hopefully -- the big thing, is not necessarily what the ruling will be, i think that that part is easy. maybe the reasoning is different about how they get their. but ultimately, the decision will be at the end, are they going to make sure that the normal rules about 45 days to go and bunk before the entire court of appeals and 90 days to go before the supreme court, are they going to state those

in their decision? are they going to short circus this -- circuit that's to say that our decision is on hold, you have x amount of time, one week, two weeks, to be able to petition the supreme court or petition for a full court of appeals? if they do that, and i expect and hope they will, then we should be back on track for this thing to be in a trial mode by the late spring. >> very early that you are not answering my question about spring, is that spring forward or shorts and new york. i will give it to you tonight, kristie. but as time goes on, my patients will be tested. devin barrett from the washington post, kristy greenberg. thank you for your time tonight, guys. still ahead tonight, recent polling has suggested that biden's support, president biden's support within the voting bloc that helped send him to the white house, might be waning. we are going to talk to one of his leading surrogates about the plan to fix that. but first, president biden wants to avoid a wider war in the middle east, but will republicans let him? we are going to talk to peter baker about that, coming up next.

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today, president biden told reporters that he has decided how the united states will respond to the drone attack that killed three american soldiers in jordan over the weekend. the first u.s. personnel deaths in the region since the israel-hamas war began in

october. >> mister president, to hold iran responsible for the death of the three americans? >> have you made a decision to how you will respond to the attacks? >> yes. >> for context, there are thousands of american troops throughout this region dating back to middle eastern conflicts, the united states has been engaged in four decades. at least 8000 troops are deployed in qatar, close to 3000 are in jordan, 2500 are in iraq, and 900 are in syria. since the start of the war between israel and hamas, some of those troops have been targeted more than 160 times. president biden has clearly stated there will be retaliation, but the white house is clearly concerned about inflaming a volatile situation. republicans, on the other hand, do not apparently share these concerns. on sunday, senator tom cotton said that anything less than devastating military retaliation will confirm joe

biden as a coward unworthy as being commander in chief. joining me now is peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times. peter, thank you for being here tonight. shortly before we got onto air, president, former president trump, released a statement. i will read the top of it for you. from the day joe biden surrendered american dignity in afghanistan, the world has gone to help because everyone knows the occupant of this white house is weak, incompetent, and corrupt. there is more there, but i will urge people to go on to the internet if they would like more. peter, can you talk a little bit about how much, given the fact that you chronicle of this administration so avidly, what is the shadow -- how does the shadow of afghanistan loom over the decision that president biden's -- or has apparently, made today. >> well, it doesn't -- the biggest most important foreign policy decision he made in his first year in office was to withdraw from afghanistan,

it is worth pointing out that what he was doing was executing an agreement that president trump himself had negotiated with the taliban to withdraw from afghanistan. president biden says, well, he executed it badly and it would have gone better if president trump had been there, but basically, president biden i was doing what president trump had already agreed to do, to get out. and in doing so, of course, he said, i want to stop these overseas wars, the forever worse that we have been in the 20 some years since 9/11. but of course, what we have seen is how hard it is to stay out of them. it the last three months after the hamas attack on israel, it has shown that american troops around the region have been repeatedly targeted, repeatedly fired at, and the only reason they haven't actually been killed up until now is because the air defense has been pretty good. american air defense is actually pretty good, and the other guy's shots are not very good. and that is to everyone's advantage, but obviously, in this particular case, it didn't. the president has looked at this and set a red line has

been across, and american lives have been taken. he has to respond. i think that he is looking for that goldilocks solution. that is how an analyst put it to me, was something that is being tough enough to send some real deterrent message to iran and its proxies, but not so hard that it triggers that wider or you just heard him say he doesn't want. >> yeah, i mean, i think there is some foreign policy, and analysts would say the u.s. is already engaged in a wider regional conflict, both from the u.s. support of israel to what is being fought with the houthis. i wonder if, given the aggressive stance as it comes from the houthis and the embrace between the u.s. and israel, do you get the sense that this white house fully grasps, at least externally, the way the u.s. is perceived by regional erupt partners and all of this, in terms of its engagement already, predating the deaths of these u.s. service personnel? >> they are realistic about this region. this relates -- region has never been an easy place for americans to operate.

every time a president comes along and says, i want to focus on asia, we've heard pat now from three administrations. the middle east sucks, the united states back in because it is a vulnerable place, it is a place of unresolved conflicts, and it is a place where america plays a unique role in trying to, at the very least, keep a lid on things from getting worse. you are right, there is sort of a regional were already going on, but it is a low level right now. it is a low level and it can be part where, that is the fear and the situation. you have iran, which is not actually that far away from developing a nuclear weapon if it chooses to hope that far. you have obviously these mogul proxy groups with far more weapons that they have used, so far. hezbollah and lebanon, for instance, has 100,000 rockets that they could be firing at israel. they are not right now, and that is a worry that the united states has. in fact, there are some negotiations going on right now specifically to try to keep hezbollah in lebanon and back from the border, try to keep that from blowing up into a bigger war. so you are right, it is no question that this is an ugly situation, certainly nothing

easy about it, but the united states finds itself once again struggling to figure out the best way forward. there is a debate about that, about how strong it should be between the tom cotton and the joe biden points of view. >> yes, and of course, what it does to joe biden's support, domestically, as well and an election year. we have to leave it there with peter baker, but thank you as always for your time and thoughts, my friend. >> thank you. >> still ahead tonight, last week, i went to south carolina to hear the biden campaign's pitch to black voters firsthand. ahead of that state's primary which is coming up this weekend, we will do a little show and tell, coming up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. i wrote a spy novel about an agent named argylle. directly at the source. now, you're telling me he's a real spy. watch this?

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will hold the first official democratic primary in the country, and president biden and his surrogates have been fanning out in the palmetto state to get south carolina voters engaged. remember that in 2020, the state catapulted joe biden to the top of the democratic ticket. this time around, south carolina's primary will be a useful bellwether of biden's support and the black community, which polling suggests has dropped since 2020. last week, i went down to orangeburg, south carolina to see how one of biden's top surrogates is making the case for reelection. >> alex? >> reporter: are you going to get your haircut? >> well, i am going to see. i don't know. how are you? >> i mean, if they can squeeze you in. >> yeah, i know.

after you. archie was my childhood governor, and i had more hair than. part of what we are doing here is to talk about this new status that south carolina has. i don't know if you understand this, but you are now the first in the nation. when joe biden decided to change us from iowa and new hampshire to south carolina, he was telling you, i see you, you matter. you count. if you think about what has happened, because in 2020, we had lost all sense of hope. it was bad. we remember how bad it was. and many of us had given up a sense of hope. but it was a people here in this state who went to the polls, marched to the polls,

and voted for joe biden because they needed some sense of hope. we are back here in south carolina. we are faced with maga republicans. it doesn't matter if it's donald trump or nikki haley, there's no choice between those rotten maga apples. we only have one choice, and folks, we got to do what we have always done. the superpower of the republican party is fear. they want to make you scared of everything, everything, your neighbor, your brother, your sister, who you love, how you love. they want to make you scared of everything. they believe that america's better days are behind her instead of in front of her. but we, the democratic party, we are a party of hope. >> democratic national committee chair jaime harrison joins me next to talk more about president biden's ground game and what the road ahead looks like for democrats.

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you, south carolina! [applause] and my buddy jim clyburn, you brought me back. [applause] >> that was candidate joe biden the night of the 2020 south carolina primary, thanking black voters and democratic congressman jim clyburn for giving his struggling campaign a decisive win. joe biden went on to win 87% of the black vote in that 2020 general election, and he is

hoping that four years later, history will repeat itself. this weekend, congressman clyburn joined president biden on the stump, as the president tries to shore up support from voters of color. nbc news polling in 2023 found that while black voters nationwide prefer biden over trump, 73% to 17%, support for president biden shrank to 60% among black voters under the age of 34. support for donald trump among the same group rose to 28%. joining me now is jaime harrison, chair of the dnc. mister chairman, thank you for being here. the last time i saw you was at the barbershop, nice to see you have a fresh trim. [laughter] it looks great. >> thank you, thank you. >> so first, we played a little bit of video from your event. before we get to the bigger picture from democrats, i think people all think of campaigning as these big arenas, like shouting crowds. that's what campaigning is.

right, it's like that hand-to-hand, person to person, icu, you see me, we are here in this barbershop together. >> and that's the connection that is so important. and sad to say in 2020, despite us winning the presidency, 81 million people combined, i think joe biden would have had much longer coattails have been able to do that. beut covid prevented that from happening in. republicans continue to go out and communicate with folks, the democrats, we all retreated back into our homes to try to protect folks. but this time around, we know that we have to be on the ground. and what's important is to understand, and i hope people understand this, the dnc has been building for this moment since i was the dnc chair. because we knew that the next election was going to be a close one. >> you knew that donald trump was going to be running again to be the nominee? >> we knew that he wanted to come back. and so we knew that we had to build an infrastructure, an unprecedented level of infrastructure, in order to

compete and win a very close election. that is how we beat back the red wave. it is because we invested historic amounts of money on the ground building border protection teams, building teams on the ground in the battleground states. and we have allowed that infrastructure to continue. and now, we are just going to build on it. so once this primary process is done, it is a continuation of what we did in the midterms, what we did in 2023, and moving forward. and you see the contrast of the other side. the republicans, the rnc is in total chaos right now. i know you've seen the articles about that, they are broke, they are fighting amongst themselves. >> and they are fighting taylor swift. >> yes. [laughter] >> i do have to ask you though, the numbers that we keep getting, when we are talking about communities of color, black voters especially. i mean, they were critical to joe biden's success in 2020. there seems to be a real generational divide. i was at that barbershop, you had an engaged constituency, but they were almost exclusively older black voters.

do you see a problem here, with the way this campaign is reaching out to, or resonating, with young black voters? >> i think this is something that in politics, and i think you see it in religion as well, is understanding that young people are getting their information in different ways, and young people are processing their support in a different way. they are not so much tied to institutions, but they are more aligned with what their values are. and so, that is forcing the political parties to begin to change the way that they reach out to those folks. and so, the biden campaign understands, that that's why the $25 million at the end of last quarter, to begin to have those conversations on social media, in the mediums in which young people are. >> do you think it's just the medium? or do you think that there is a problem with the message? and i'll ask you specifically about the president's support of israel and the war in gaza, which anecdotally and from some reporting has really hurt him in really important communities of color. whether they are arab american, black american. people who have been

historically oppressed, who see palestinians as oppressed as well, and do not like the position this president has taken. >> well i think when you think about where the president is, for him, he is putting on his hat as commander-in-chief, and he has to do what's in the best interest of our security as a country, and also our partnership with our allies. and so sometimes politically, that may not always be the most resonant thing. but at the end of the day, we have to understand that these elections are about contrast. and the president often says, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. we know under donald trump, this is a man who from day one wants to put a muslim ban. from day one, believes he should be a dictator. from day one, believes that immigrants are poisoning the blood of america. joe biden is a good man, he's a decent man, he is always going to try to do the right thing based off of his experience and the wisdom that he has, and the relationships that he has. and so, he is also engaging

with the communities that want different policies to say listen, i want to hear from you. i want to talk with you, i want to figure out ways that we can work together, in order to move this forward. and that's why we are so fortunate to have him as president, as opposed to someone who is just focused on retribution or payback. >> someone who is decidedly not going down to barbershops and talking to voters about what they care about, decidedly not talking about his actual policy plans in a substantive way. jaime harrison, it was a treat to run into you in south carolina, look what we did with that chance. >> come back to south carolina. come back to my hometown of orange county. >> it is great to see you. >> always great to see you. >> that is our show for tonight, now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. and here we are on day, let's see, we'll, friday to now. not a word from donald