daughters -- exactly, let's talk about the press conference and they just learned there's enough estimation threat making the best time to shooter is when leaving the building's real specter office takes off a business suit this is after the press conference takes off her pearls puts on sweats ms. woke up and then a body double but son willis is sued and leaves witnesses out the back of the modeling an undisclosed location. >> that could be found and find me the votes, coauthor -- michael, thank you so much. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. >> i mean the body doubles are happening before. >> and it's the part, it's the

ice beneath the waterline in terms of what this means for all the people that interact with it that you don't see, but this is happening to all versions of this. >> it's what it means to be sort of holding up democracy in this day and age. you be to be prepared for late night cellphone calls threatening your family. thank you, my friend. >> you bet. and thanksfr to you at home for joining us this hour. sous the matchup of the year is set, and it's a rematch of 2020. it's the same teams. it's the red team versus the other red team. that's right. kansas city chiefs are set to face-off yet again against the san francisco 49ers in super bowl lviii. okay, all right. if you thought that was a wind up toou the likely battle betwe president biden and donald trump in 2024, well, it is also that, too. and that is because -- bear with

me here -- a segment of right-wing media is convinced that the kansas city chiefs qualifying for the super bowl this year is actually a vast left-wing conspiracy. this plot all centers around the relationship between kansas city tight endwe travis kelce and superstar muswregz taylor swift, a relationship the right wing now believes is actually a deep state conspiracy to elect joe biden. i am not kidding. >> taylor swift, a government syop. >> it is quite frankly possible taylor swift doesn't realize she's being utilized in a covert manner to swing voters. >> last year a single post led to 45,000 new voter registrations. >> there'ste that poll where 18 of the electorate says they'd

followat her endorsement and 3 t of 10 people under 35. >> isn't it so interesting she just so happens to be dating the chiefs tight end jason kelce. >> vivek ramaswamy described the conspiracy this way. "i wonder who's going to win the super bowl next month. and i wonder if there's a major presidential endorsement coming from an artificially propped up couple this fall." now, first of all, the kansas city chiefs have made it to three ofe the last four super bowls. the fact they've made it again thishe year is not only not a conspiracy, it's not surprising. butg. beyond that the idea the u.s. government tricked taylor swiftic into getting political with a deep state syop, that

idea ignores the actual reason taylor swift decided to go public with her politics in the first place. here she is in the documentary miss americana talking about why she decided to make her first ever political statement in more than a decade of fame. >> these aren't your dad celebrities, and these aren't your dad republicans. >> imagine if we came to you and said, hey, we've got this idea that we can hog the number of people that come to the united states. >> taylor swift comes out againstr trump. >> i don't care if they write that. >> that was taylor swift in 2018. right after that scene taylor swift endorsed the democratic competitor to marsha blackburn in the senate race. swift knew she could lose fans over that decision, but this wasn't about popularity and wasn't because the democratic deep state spiked her coffee. taylor swift got political because it seems she actually

cared about the issues. here she is talking about why she couldn't support marsha blackburn in that senate race. >> it really is a big deal. he votes against fair pay for v women. he votes against the reauthorization ofhe the violen against women act which is basicallyn protecting us from domestic abuse and stalking -- stalking. he thinks if you'relk a gay peoe or even if you look like a gay people you should beli allowed be kicked out of a restaurant. it's really basic human rights and right or wrong at this point, and i can't see another commercial and see her disguising these policies behind the words tennessee christian values. those aren't tennessee christian values. i live in c tennessee. i am a christian, that's not what we stand for. >> so that is why taylor swift waded into politics, and that is why in 2020 she endorsed joe

biden fored president. and as it turns out getting political does not seem to have hurt taylor swift. in the years since she endorsed biden in 2020 taylor swift has gone on what is arguably one of the mosts successful tours eve. all around the globe she is selling out the biggest venues imaginable.nu her concerts are so popular that the federal reserve says her tour literally boosted the national economy. so why can't the right believe that taylor swift is naturally popular and naturally believes the things she believes. why can't the right believe the kansas city chiefs gote to the super bowl because they're just really good at football? why can't they they believe that two popular tucksy celebrities just want to date each other? usually when someone comes up with aom conspiracy theory it's becausethy don't want to believe the truth.et inie this case i think republics and the trump team in particular don't want to believe how grossly unpopular their policies

are. and instead of changing tharlg unpopular policies, they are doubling down on them. we see in poll after poll upwards of 60% of americans support the right to abortion. abortion access is incredibly popular, and yet new reporting out of politico today shows right-wing organizations are already drafting executive orders for trump to sign on day one if he is re-elected, orders thatel would outlaw the most common form of abortion medication and bar americans from beingme able to get aborti medications in the mail. while 57% of americans say they would not vote for donald trump if he was convicted of a felony, rolling stone is out with new reporting this week that trump is plotting away to give presidents legal immunity for life assuming he is re-elected. the list goes on. while a majority of americans support the affordable care act, trump says he wants to repeal it. while a majority of americans didn't support trump's 2017 corporate tax cuts, trump says he wants to pass a new round of

them if he's re-elected. republicans don't want to own up to the reality their ideas are hugely unpopular and that what they are doing right now, today is making their party more and morer unpopular every day. so rather than accept the reality, the right has created its own reality. and in doing so the right is kind of telling on itself. because this isn't just a stand alonea conspiracy theory here, this is partpi of the big lie. trump allies are laying the groundwork to l claim if they lose, if trump loses it's not because its party dug itself into a hole by pushing unpopular policies, it's because taylor swift is deep state asset. it's allat rigged in ways you can't imagine. it's becausen' the famously liberal pentagon is rigging the famously liberal nfl. it's hugo shav ezand venezuelans

flipping the vote. it's satellites hacking the vote. i'ms sorry, republicans but you're the problem. it'sro you. joining me now is "the new york times" opinion columnist and msnbc political analyst michelle goldberg. there's so much to talk about here.al i'm not a professor of american sociology and culture but it seems to me when you're fighting taylor swift and the nfl you're losing. >> this is part of the conservative movement as they'vr taken this apocalyptic turn, as they believe america ispt in desperate decline and that they are -- they talk about the military being weak and woke, they want to dismantle the fbi. this isn't the first time they turned on the nfl, right? they turned on thee nfl during the george floyd protests. they were already angry with

travis kelce for advertising the pfizer vaccine. there's twoer things going on here. onth the one hand they just sor of have this oppositional defiant disorder to anything that is popular outside of their own weird millue. but because taylor swift and travis kelce sort of exemplify the type of american couple they think shouldf be conservative, that should be theirs, the fact they're not, the fact people like that -- we don't know what travis kelce's politics are but iit can't imagine this has indeared the republican party to him. the fact people like this want nothing to do with them feels like such a slap in the face. maybe it's the inverse of how we felt when conway west decided that he liked hitler. >> well, i mean but kanye west

and his artistry aside and i know there's a lot of yea fans in the world we're talking the nfl -- the smaller you make the republican sort of cohort, the larger you make c the democrati tent. >> i think it's bad politics but it's good media strategy and that's what's driving the bus these days inth the republican party. i'm not hardly the first person to suggest the republican party now is driven by these media personalities whose interests is obviously not in policy, it's not in -- in some cases it's not even in winning elections. it's in clout. and by going after taylor swift they drive a lot of clicks and we're here talking about it, everyone is herebo talking abou it, and they even sort of borrow in a dark way some of her refracted glory because they've

inserted themselves into the taylor swift narrative. >> it's not just about this narrative being click bait, right? itit speaks to a larger centralo the republican politics. it's as if they don't understand why women and young women are, like, fleeing from the party as they, you know -- as they harass effectively taylor swift and at the same time quite substantively are making plans to outlaw mifepristone and effectivelyis curtail the reproductiveth freedom of women all over the country. >> right. i think taylor swift in a lot of ways exemplifies why they're so angry at women, right? you have this person who has this kind of very wholesome seeminger background, starts ou you know, as a christian from tennessee. started out as a f country musi star.ou and then m as she matures, as s kind of learnsre things for

herself, develops the same sorts of political ideas that a lot of young women develop when they're confronted with the varerous restrictions of pariarchy. even before all this they've seen her as this kind of pied piper to women even though her songs shegh sings mostly about romance and conventional heterosexual relationships, the fact she's single -- or was single. the fact she's unmarried, the fact she is the person in this relationship with the bigger career, whatever some football fans seems to think, it enrages them because she is a symbol of kind of to them of neurotic women who refuse to conform to traditional roles. >> i agree with you i think the

economic sort of independence is oneon thing, but i do think you sort of first point about how she represents a betrayal, she's dating a football star, she's dating the tight end. is that right control room? the tight end of the chiefs, going to the super bowl and that to them must be destroyed. i do -- i got to ask you they were talking a lot about what the democratic party has become and what the republican party has epbecome. and, you know, for alls intent and purposes, the democratic party is an anti-maga coalition. and it is a fiercely uniting prop swregz for democrats. and i think it's durable in a way that the cultive personality around donald trump falls apart whend donald trump is gone. when you think about it this way, and i think for everybody who's like worried about what happens in 2024 and beyond, what has been built here by both republicans and democrats is a

broad coalition focused on policy, not on one particular person that is incredibly incensed and engaged with what the republican party has become. >> i mean i hope so. count me as someone who's worried, who's plenty worried about 2024. but i also do think it's true that inasmuch as kind of the democrats can becomein the part ofco quote-unquote normal people -- >> people who like football, airlines, beer,taler swift, that's all people. i mean mostly. >> right. there was some conservative influencer who said we have ted nugent and kid rock, and i think that says it oc all. >> i mean scott baio. when you forsake disney, bud light, taylor swift, football, delta airlines, and you're resting on scott baio, ted nugent, kid rock shooting up a

case of bud light, well i think that it's -- well, it's a sign of the times. we have lots to get to this evening including president biden's vow of retleiation and what exactly that means and donald trump's financial fate. f it is in the hands of a judge in new york as new information emerges about the trump organization's messy financial records. we'll have more on that just ahead. es records. we'll have more on that just ahead. ♪oh what a good time we will have♪ ♪you... can make it happen...♪ ♪♪ try dietary supplements from voltaren for healthy joints.

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i don't need the money. you've probably seen the cash, a lot of cash i believe substantially in excess of $400 million cash. >> $400 million, that is how much available cash donald trump told new york prosecutors his business had as of last spring. now, there's a way to verify that figure, and there's no particular reason we should believe mr. trump. but one thing we do know is he may need at least that much money and possibly even more to pay for the verdicts he is facing in multiple courtrooms. donald trump is now on the hook for $83.3 million, which a jury ordered him to pay writer e. jean carroll for defaming her and at any moment we could get a judgment in trump's civil fraud trial where the new york attorney general is asking him to be fined $370 million. the judge in that case, judge engoron, has already found that trump committed fraud and has even suggested he may force

trump to liquidate his businesses as part of his ultimate verdict. as we await that verdict, we're learning more about mr. trump's questionable business practices. an outside monitor appointed by judge engoron means barbara jones has just found several issues with trump's business practices including missing disclosures, math errors, and questions about a $48 million loan to mr. trump and one of his company. and there are issues that that outside monitor says may reflect a lack of adequate internal controls. joining me now is devlen barrett, justice reporter and coauthor of the trump trials newsletter. it is indispensable over at "the washington post." also with me is former federal prosecutor kristi greenberg. kristi, "the new york times" reports on this barbara jones on questionable business practices, accounting practices, adequate business controls, don't listen to me. and they say this is precisely the kind of data point judge

engoron may sort of fixate on if you will to really call for trump to be fined a sizable amount of money. do you think that is an accurate analysis? >> so i think it will go not necessarily towards the fine amount. i think it will go towards the question of whether this lifetime ban, this corporate death penalty gets imposed because one of the things the court is looking at is what is the likelihood of future violation of this company? and whether or not there should be a lifetime ban of trump from ever engaging in real estate again. here judge jones the independent monitor saying actually you don't have a compliance compartment, you never did an internal investigation when there was fraud, you had a cfo who pled to fraud, a controller who said he aided and abetted fraud. you didn't fire them. instead you gave them handsome severance packages to not cooperate with law enforcement. and then i'm looking at and finding all these errors, all these disclosures that are incomplete and inconsistent, and you don't have a framework where i can feel confident as the

monitor that you're not going to continue to do this if i don't have my oversight, and that feels like a very logical conclusion given the fact they haven't fixed anything about how their organization is setup and what these internal controls are. >> right. if you have deemed that the trump organization has committed fraud and in the current day is still sort of practices fast and loose accounting schemes, then potentialliy you say it's time to hang up at home, but devlen, the ap has a report, a really interesting report on how unusual it would be for a judge to order something like that given the fact there's not a showing of major victims and losses. i'll read an expert. an ap analysis shows such a penalty has only been imposed over a dozen times and the only big business found threatened would a shutdown without a showing, again, of obvious

victims and major losses. this is sort of the argument that trump's lawyers have been making to the court, isn't it? >> it absolutely is. and it speaks to i think a basic disconnect between what the court system including the independent monitor barbara jones is drawing attention to and the bay the trump organization's has worked for decades. and that is the trump organization is in some ways a multi-million dollar organization that operators like a mom and pop dproesry store. and a lot of what the independent monitor barbara jones, a former federal judge i might add ssh flagging is the fact like this is not a large company that behaves like a large company. this is large company that behaves like a family small business, and she is finding what she thinks are problems in their accounting and what the trump organization is saying in reply is this is nonsense, you're quibbling, you're

focusing on like petty things, and it's unfair. and that is the basic conflict in this issue. >> yeah, they've also said barbara jones is going to make a case for us to continue to use her services by saying, you know, we're not doing a good job. >> which makes no sense. just taking a step back, trump recommended barbara jones to be the independent monitor. >> she was agreed upon by both parties. >> yes, she was agreed upon by both parties. i think in the papers one of trump's lawyers said this obsessive police officer seeking to go after -- he is engaged in persistent fraud that's found by the judge, so this idea of trying to malign judge jones that is not going to work. she's independent. she's not on either side. she's calling it like she sees it. >> devlen, i do think when we

talk about the penalty here there's the $370 million, but then the ending of the trump business in new york would be a devastating blow to donald trump's ego and potentially his pocketbook. this is not the only hit he's taking. there's more reporting from "the times" he's spent $50 million in donor money on legal bills. and i just wonder -- and i know you reported on a lot of these trials and given how prolonged this calender is getting, how sustainable you think this is from a sort of in-flow, out-flow perspective. >> i think it's a really important point because i think what you're seeing is we are right now in the moment where the legal costs of being donald trump are eclipsing his political operation up until now is we've seen his political operation funding his legal bills including some of the penalties associated with the e. jean carroll case. but when you see that $83

million verdict, when you see the expected engoron decision which is likely to be a lot of money as well, what you're seeing is there's no way his political operation can absorb the cost of those things. so right now what we're seeing is very important because it's the moment when the cost of his political caw rear is impacting his business life, and he cares a great deal ability the money. and so what we're seeing i hope people understand is that this is now starting to bite in a way his political career has ever bit in his business life before. >> and by the way, the thing that i think he feels the most is the pain in his wallet. when we talk about the road ahead and where the lawyers are going to be needed the most, the federal election interference case against donald trump has been stayed since december 13th, which is a long time. i think the hearing was on

january 9th, but still this was -- some people thought this was a kind of pro forma exercise. this is a ridiculous claim, it'll be over soon. can you talk a little bit about whether there might be a strategy in all of this, and, you know, it seems almost certain this isn't going to happen in march, and with every day that goes by it seems like it's not going to happen in april either. >> i think we're looking atspri, maybe even early summer. >> what's spring to you? is it when the clocks go forward or when we're wearing shorts in new york? >> i think it's when at that point hopefully this would have been around the supreme court and we'll get the supreme court decision so that later in the spring we're having this trial. that is my hope. look, i didn't think it would be so quick. i thought we'd be getting a decision from the d.c. court of appeals. tomorrow is the end of the month. tomorrow we're getting to this point where you're hoping they're going to kpl out with a

decision soon. look, it's a decision they know is going to be scrutinized. it's a decision in a matter of first impression, they want to get it right. and you probably are looking at three judges who are trying to figure out how to be unanimous. hopefully, the big thing i think is not necessarily what the ruling will be. i think that part is easy, the reasoning is different how they get there, but ultimately the decision will be at the end are they going to make sure the normal rules, about 45 days to go en banc before the entire court of appeals and 90 days before the supreme court, are they going to stay those in their decision, are they going to short circuit this to say our decision is on hold, you have a week, two weeks to petition to the court of appeals? if they do that and i expect and hope they'll do that, then we should be back on thak for this thing to be in a trial mode by the late spring.

>> very lawyery you're not answering my question about spring. is it spring forward. as time goes on my patience will be tested. devon barrett from "the washington post" and kristi greenberg, thank you for your time tonight, guy. still ahead tonight, recent polling has suggested president biden's support within the voting block that helped send him to the white house, that support might be waning. first, president biden wants to avoid a wider war in the middle east, but will republicans let him? we're going to talk to peter baker coming up next. g to talk r baker coming up next

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today president biden told reporters that he has decided how the united states will respond to the drone attack that killed three american soldiers in jordan over the weekend. the first u.s. personnel deaths in the region since the israel-hamas war began in october. >> mr. president, do you hold iran responsible for the death of the three americans? >> yes. >> for context there are thousands of american troops throughout this region dating back to middle eastern conflicts the united states has been engaged in for decades. at least 8,000 troops are deployed to qatar.

close to 3,000 are in jordan, 2,500 are in iraq, and 900 are in syria. and since the start of the war between israel and hamas, some of those troops have been targeted more than 160 times. while president biden has clearly stated there will be retaliation, the white house is clearly concerned about inflaming a volatile situation. >> i don't think we need a wider war in the middle east. that's not what i'm looking for. >> republicans, on the other hand, do not apparently share these concerns. on sunday senator tom cotton said anything less than devastating military retaliation will confirm joe biden as a cowered unworthy of being commander in chief. joining me now is peter baker, chief white house correspondent interest "the new york times." shortly before we got onto air, former president trump released a statement. i'll just read the top of it for you. from the day joe biden surrendered american dignity in afghanistan, the world has gone

to hell because everyone knows the occupant of this house is weak, incompetent, and corrupt. there's no there there, but i'll urge people to go onto the internet if they'd like more. peter, can you talk a bit how much given the fact you chronicle this administration so avidly, what is the shadow -- how does the shadow of afghanistan loom over the decision that president biden is going to have -- has apparently made today? >> well, of course it's the biggest most important foreign policy decision he made in his first year in office to withdraw from afghanistan. it's worth pointing out what he was doing was executing an agreement president trump himself had negotiated with the taliban to withdraw from afghanistan. now, president biden's critics would say, well, he executed it badly and it maybe would have gone better if president trump was there. basically president biden was

doing what president trump already induced, to get out. of of course what we've seen is how hard it is to stay out of that in the last three months with the hamas terrorist attack on israel has shown is that major troops around the region have been repeatedly targeted, repeatedly fired at, and the only reason they haven't actually been killed up until now is the american defense is pretty good, and the other guys shots are not very good. and that's been to everyone's advantage. but obviously in this particular case it didn't. and the president has looked at this and said the red line has been crossed, american lives have been taken and he has to respond. he's looking for that goldilocks solution, how one analyst put it to me. something tough enough to send a real message to iran and its proxies but not so hard it triggers that wider war you just heard him say he doesn't want. >> i think there's some foreign policy analysts who would say

the u.s. is already engaged in a wider regional conflict both the u.s. support for israel and what is being fought out with the houthis. given the sort of aggressive stance as it comes enparticular to the houthis, do you get the sense this white house fully grasps at least externally the way the u.s. is perceived by regional arab partners in all this predating the deaths of these u.s. service personnel? >> to be realistic about this region, this region has never been an easy place to operate. we've heard that now for three administrations, the middle east sucks the united states back in because in fact it is a volatile place, it is a place of unresolved conflicts and it is a place where america plays a unique role to trying to at the very least keep a lid on things

from trying to get worse. iran which is not that far away from developing a nuclear weapon. and you have obviously multiple proxy groups with far more weapons and hezbollah and lebanon for instance and there's negotiations going on right now specifically to keep hezbollah and lebanon back from the border and keep that from blowing up and into a bigger war. so you're right there's no question this is an ugly situation, certainly nothing easy about it. but the united states finds itself once again struggling to figure out the best way forward, and there is a debate about that, how hard and strong it should be between the tom cotton and joe biden points of view. >> yeah, and of course what it does to joe biden's support domestically as well in an election year. we've got to leave it there,

but, peter baker, thank you as always for your thoughts and time, my friend. still ahead tonight last week where went to south carolina to hear the biden campaign's pitch to black voters first-hand ahead of that state's primary coming up this weekend. we're going to do a little show and tell coming up next. we're going to do a little show and tell coming up next.

on saturday south carolina will hold the first official democratic primary in the country. and president biden and his

surrogates have been fanning out in the palmetto state to get south carolina voters engaged. remember in 2020 the state catapulted joe biden to the top of the democratic ticket. this time around south carolina's primary will be a useful bellworth of biden's support in the black community, which polling suggests has dropped since 2020. last week i went to orangeberg, south carolina, to see how one of biden's top surrogates is making the case for re-election. >> alex. >> are you going to get your haircut? >> i'm going to see. >> if they can squeeze you in. >> i know. after you. >> part of what we're doing here is to talk about this new status

that south carolina has. i don't know if you understand this, but you are now the first in the nation. when joe biden decided to change us from iowa and new hampshire to south carolina, he was telling you i see you, you matter, you count. now, you think about what has happened because in 2020 we had lost all sense of hope. it was bad. we remember how bad it was, and many of us had given up all sense of hope, but it was a people here in this state who went to the polls, march today the polls, and voted for joe biden. because they needed some sense of hope. we are back here in south carolina. we are faced with maga republicans. it doesn't matter if it's donald trump or nikki haley, there's no choice between those rotten maga apples. we only have one choice.

and, folks, we got to do what we have always done. the super power of the republican parties fear. they want to make you scared of everything. everything. your neighbor, your brother, your sister, who you love and how you love. they believe that america's better days are behind her instead of in front of her. but we, the democratic party, we are a party of hope. >> democratic national committee chair jamie harrison joins me next to talk more about president biden's ground game and what the road ahead looks like for democrats. looks like for democrats your sleep number settings. it's so smart, it actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side for your ideal sleep temperature, and effortlessly responds to both of you. for your best sleep, night after night. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus 0% interest for 36 months on select smart beds. ends monday. shop for a limited time and sleep next level. only at sleep number.

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thank you, thank you, thank you, south carolina! and my buddy gym clyburn, you brought me back. >> that was candidate joe biden the night of the 2020 south carolina primary thanking black voters and jim clyburn for giving his struggling campaign a decisive win. joe biden went onto win 87% of

the black vote in that general 2020 election, and he's hoping that four years later history will repeat itself. this weekend congressman clyburn joined president biden on the stump as the president tries to shore up support from voters of color. nbc news polling from 2023 found that while black voters nationwide preferred biden over trump 73% to 17% support for president biden shrank to 60% among black voters under the age of 34. support for donald trump among the same group rose to 28%. joining me now is jamie harrison, chairman of the dnc. mr. chairman, thank you for being here. the last time i saw you was at the barbershop. i see you have a fresh trim. it looks great. >> so let's first -- i mean we play a bit of video from your event, before we get to the bigger picture for democrats, i think people often think of the campaigns as big, you know,

shouting crowds, that's what campaigning is. it's like that hand to hand person to person i see you, you see me we're here in this barbershop together. >> and that's the connection that is so important, and sad to say in 2020 despite us winning the presidency, 80 million people come out. i think joe biden would have had much longer coattails had we been able to do that, but covid prevented that from happening. republicans continued to go out in the area and communicate with folks. democrats, we all retreated back into our homes to try to protect folks, but this time around we know we have to be on the ground, and now what's important is to understand, and i hope people understand this, the dnc has been building from this moment since i've been dnc chair because we knew the next election was going to be a close one. >> you knew donald trump was going to be running again and be the nominee? >> we knew he wanted to come back. and so we knew we had to build

an infrastructure, an unprecedented level of infrastructure in order to compete and win a very close election. that's how we beat back the red wave. it's because we invested a historic amount of money on inground building voter protection teams, teams on the ground and we've allowed that infrastructure to continue whereby and now we're going to build on it. it is a continuation what we did in the mid-terms, in 2023, and moving forward. and you see the contrast on the other side. the republicans, the rnc is in total chaos right now. i know you've seen the article about that. they're broke, they're fighting amongst themselves. ? and they're fighting taylor swift. >> yes. >> and i do have to ask you, though, black voters especially and critical to joe biden's success in 2020, there seems to be a real generational divide.

you had an engaged constituency but they were lmgs exclusively older black voters. do you see a problem here with the way this campaign is reaching out to or resonating with young black voters? >> i think this is something in politics and i think you see in religion as well is understanding thatyu people are getting their information in a different way, that young people are processing their support in a different way. they're so much tied to institutions but they're more aligned with what their values are, and so that is forcing the political parties to begin to change the way that they reach out to those young folks. and so the biden campaign understands that, and that's why the $25 million at the end of last quarter they begin to have conversations on social media in the medium in which young people are. >> do you think there's just a problem with the message? and i'll ask you specifically about the president's support of the war in israel and gaza. which anecdotally and from some supporting has really hurt him

in really important communities of color, people who have been historically oppressed who see palestinians as oppressed as well and do not like the position this president has taken. >> i think when you think about where the president is for him he is putting on his hat as commander in chief, and he has to do what's in the best interest of our security as a country and also our partnership with our allies. and so sometimes politically that may not always be the most rezinate thing, but at the end of the day we have to understand that these elections are about contrast. the president often says don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. we know under donald trump this is a president who wants to day one put a muslim ban, from day one wants to be a dictator, believes day one immigrants are poisoning the blood of america. joe biden is a decent man, he's always going to try to do the

right thing based off his experience and the relationships that he has wrbl so he is also engaging with the communities that want different policies to say, listen, i want to hear from you, i want to talk with you, i want to figure out ways we can walk together in order to move this forward. that's why we're so -- >> someone not going down to barbershops and talking to voters about what they care about, not talking about what his actual policy plans in a substantive way. it was a treat to run into you in south carolina. look what we did with that chance encounter. >> come back to south carolina. >> any time. it is great to see you live in the flesh. thank you for your time. that our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. judging by his comments he clearly wants to campaign on this issue.