reports," follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. you can re-watch the best parts of our show on youtube. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. blood on your hands, those words coming at the very start of a fiery senate hearing on social media, and it only got more intense from there as lawmakers unloaded on tech ceos over security measures they say don't do nearly enough to protect kids. >> for all the upside, the dark side is too great to live with. we do not need to live this way as americans. >> plus, three days and counting since that deadly attack on u.s. service members. we are now getting details about plans to blast iranian targets with sustained campaigns

involving everything from military strikes to cyber attacks. so why hasn't it happened yet? >>. and we're learning more about a potential israeli hostage deal just one day after the families of american hostages brought their questions and concerns to the white house. i'll talk to one of the women who was there about the possibility of a new deal and what the u.s. is doing to force the issue. but i want to begin with that contentious hearing on capitol hill, demanding answers from the ceos of the world's biggest social media companies, focusing largely on child sexual exploitation on their platforms. the heads of facebook and instagram, snap, tiktok, discord and x, formerly known as twitter, facing intense pressure from senators on both sides of the aisle. >> when a boeing plane lost a door in mid flight several weeks ago, nobody questioned the decision to ground a fleet of

over 700 planes. so why aren't we taking the same type of decisive action on the danger of these platforms when we know these kids are dying? >> so here you are, if you're waiting on these guys to solve the problem, we're going to die waiting. >> well, the numbers are staggering, a "washington post" analysis of child sexual abuse material on these platforms shows, quote, meta reported by far the largest number of files on its platforms in 2022, the most recent year for which company's specific data is available. they have more than 21 million reports on facebook alone. google reported 2.2 million, snapchat, 550,000, tiktok 290,000, and discord 170,000. x reported under 100,000. during testimony, families of the victims of social media dressed in black held up images

of those lost they say are tied to social media. here's what happened after mark zuckerberg apologized for what their families have had to go through. >> this is why we've invested so much, and are going to continue to make sure that no one has to go through the types of things that your families have had to suffer. >> nbc sahil kapur reportings from capitol hill, adam connor, the vice president of technology policy for the center of american -- for american progress who has spent the last 15 years working at the intersection of technology, politics, policy, and elections. also with us here, ryan heath, global tech correspondent for "axios." so adam, we're hearing politicians push those ceos on their -- into legislation, taking responsibility over and over again, but not much in the way of commitment. what can and should a hearing like this accomplish, do you think? >> well, in many ways, this is a

mere repeat of a hearing we've seen over and over again. tech ceos dragged before congress to answer for a variety of issues within this case child safety framework. what's different about this hearing compared to others is what you showed in that clip. the families of victims impacted by this. a bipartisan concern for children and teenagers about the effects of this. i think that gives this hearing and this topic more salience than some of the other tech hearings we've seen. but it ends up running into the same problems we've seen within congress and regulating the tech industry, which is breakdowns in the kind of partisan process and disagreements about which topic to tackle first, and i think even within this hearing, you saw certain senators focusing on really important and critical issues like csam or others and others wanting to take the conversations in different directions like the impact of china on tiktok and other things. it's always difficult to have a

conversation here. i think what is really different about this hearing and really important are the -- is the topics but also the kind of voices of the victims and their families. >> and sahil, senator dick durbin said this is the biggest audience he has ever seen in the committee room in his 22 years on the panel. there are a lot of eyes on this. what's the latest at this hour? >> reporter: the hearing is still going. these tech ceos certainly faced a chilly reception in that room. i caught up with senator dick durbin. he said it's one of the most overwhelming hearings he's ever participated in, and he's served in the senate for decades. he noted the room was packed with families showing pictures of children who have been exploited. there were several confrontational moments in that hearing as we've become accustomed to seeing between senators and the tech ceos. i want to play one between josh hawley and mark zuckerberg. >> wait a minute, your own study says that you make life worse

for one in three teenage girls, you increase anxiety and depression. that's what it says and you're testifying in public there's no link. you've been doing this for years. for years you've been coming in public and testifying under oath that there's absolutely no link. your product is wonderful. the science is nascent, full speed ahead, while internally you know full well your product is a disaster for teenagers. >> senator, that's not true. >> and you keep right on doing what you're doing. right? >> that's not true. >> now, those two can quibble over the details, but the link between meta's platform, most enjoy notably instagram and negative mental health impacts for teen girls has been well established. the bigger question is congress going to act or is this going to be another situation where they bring in tech ceos, and they go back home and ultimately do nothing. there are several major pieces of legislation that are on the table that congress is considering. let's put up the graphic that shows that. there's the kids online safety act, which would create liability for recommending or

promoting content detrimental to minors. the platform accountability and transparency act which sets up standards for transparency and disclosure. the shield act which would criminalize sending non-consensual images online. the stop csam act, that stands for child sexual abuse material. the earn it act stands for eliminating abusive and rampant neglect, and the project safe childhood act, which would bolster prosecution of child exploitation crimes. i spoke also a few moments ago to senator richard blumenthal who is a sponsor of one of those bills, the kids online safety act. what's clear is there's a lack of trust here, that they cannot trust these tech ceos to police themselves, to create a safe environment for children that congress must act. he's very hopeful that his bill will pass. but again, chris, there's no guarantee of which if any of these bills is going to come to the floor. that's going to be a question for senator leadership, most notably senator chuck schumer, the majority leader and what can get through the house. >> so ryan, adam is right.

we've heard this story before. it was very moving to see the family members who were in the audience holding up the pictures of their children who have died as a result of this. three of these ceos have never come before congress. they had to be subpoenaed, they had never been here happily, i don't want to say willingly. it doesn't seem happily. what keeps sticking in my brain and, adam pointed out that it's much more complex than this, is a lot of these senators don't really understand how any of this works. >> they've gotten better and so have the ceos arriving. zuckerberg's been through this loop before. i'm not sure if it was spontaneous or staged but to turn around and give that apology, that was giving the stakeholders something that the ceos didn't used to give in these hearings and that's been enough to keep regulation at bay until this point, but i think what we're really seeing now is that the business model is at the heart of these problems.

>> i'm going to interrupt you for just a second, senator laphonza butler is asking each ceo have you met with parents of these children? let's listen. >> yes, over the years i've had a lot of conversations with parents. >> you know, that's interesting, mr. zuckerberg, because we talked about this last night and you gave me a very different answer. i asked you this very question. >> well, i told you that i wasn't -- that i didn't know what specific processes our company has for answering -- >> no, mr. zuckerberg, you said to me that you had not. >> i must have misspoke. >> i want to give you the room to misspeak, mr. zuckerberg, but i asked you this very question. i asked all of you this question, and you told me a very different answer when we spoke, but i won't belabor it. can i -- a number of you have talked about the -- i'm sorry, x, ms. yaccarino have you talked to parents directly, young

people about designing your product? >> as a new leader of x, the answer is yes, i have spoken to them about the behavioral patterns because less than 1% of our users are in that age group, but yes, i have spoken to them. >> thank you, ma'am. mr. sspiegel, there are a numbe of parents whose children have been able to access illegal drugs on your platform. what do you say to those parents? >> senator, we are devastated that we cannot -- >> to the parents. what do you say to those parents? >> i'm so sorry that we have not been able to prevent these tragedies. we work very hard to block all search terms related to drugs from our platform. we detect drug related content. we refer it to law enforcement for action. we've worked together with nonprofits and with families on

education campaigns because the scale of the fentanyl epidemic is extraordinary. 100,000 people lost their lives last year. we believe people need to know one pill can kill. that campaign was viewed more than 260 million times on snapchat. >> mr. spiegel, there are two fathers in this room who lost their sons, they're 16 years old. their children were able to get those pills from snapchat. i know that there are statistics and i know that there are good efforts. none of those efforts are keeping our kids from getting access to those drugs on your platform. as a california company, all of you, i've talked with you about what it means to be a good neighbor and what california families and american families should be expecting from you. you owe them more than just a set of statistics, and i look forward to you showing up on all pieces of these legislation, all of you showing up on all pieces

of legislation to keep our children safe. mr. zuckerberg, i want to come back to you, i talked with you about being a parent to a young child, who doesn't have a phone, doesn't -- you know, is not on social media at all, and one of the things that i am deeply concerned with as a parent to a young black girl is the utilization of filters on your platform that would suggest that young girls utilizing your platform the evidence that they are not good enough as they are. i want to ask more specifically and refer to some unredacted court documents that reveal that your own researchers concluded that these face filters that

mimic plastic surgery negatively impact youth mental health indeed and well-being. why should we believe -- why should we believe that because you're going to do more to protect young women and young girls, when it is you give them the tools to affirm the self-hate that is spewed across your platform? why is it that we should believe that you are committed to doing anything more to keep our children safe? >> sorry, there's a lot to unpack there. >> there is a lot. >> we give people tools to express themselves in different ways. and people use face filters and different tools to make media and photos and videos that are fun or interesting across a lot of the different products that -- >> plastic surgery pins are good tools to express creativity? >> senator, i'm not speaking to

that specifically -- >> skin lightening tools are tools that to express creativity? this is the direct thing i'm asking about. >> i'm not defending any specific one of those. i think that the ability to kind of filter and edit images is generally a useful tool for expression. for that specifically, i'm not familiar with the study that you're referring to, but we did make it so that we're not recommending this type of content to teens not on our -- >> i made no reference to a study, to court documents that revealed your knowledge of the impact of these types of filters on young people, generally young girls in particular -- >> i disagree with that characterization, i think there have been hypotheses. >> with court documents? >> i haven't seen any documents. okay, mr. zuckerberg, my time is up. i hope that you hear what is being offered to you and are prepared to step up and do better.

i know this is senate committee is going to do our work to hold you to greater account, thank you, mr. chair. >> so let me go back to you, ryan. that's tough stuff. i mean, it is very, very difficult to be asked a direct question and asked to directly address the parents of kids who have died, to hear someone spout statistics and maybe that's the decision that they made when they prepared for this hearing. maybe saying we're not recommending that they use these filters seems like an answer. i think the -- >> not the answer the parent of a teenager would give. >> not at all, right? >> no. >> so there is a toughness to the questioning. there's a difficulty with the answers, but i'm going to go

back to the original point. what is going to change an industry that is worth billions of dollars and let's not kid ourselves that kids all across america are addicted to? >> there's only two things. one is actual regulatory action through congress, and we see that patchwork of bills that appeared on screen a few minutes ago. there has to be some consolidation of those bills, and chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell have to decide this is important enough to get this beyond the committee stage, and second, there's actions the companies can take themselves, possibly tide back to threats of their earnings and the investor confidence level they have by connecting the finances with the social impacts we've been hearing today, but they have to be willing to consider elements of their business model. the business model is let as many people as possible communicate as easily as possible and then triage the problems, however dramatic or even deadly like we've seen today, triage the problems

later, and until someone forces more friction upfront into the system, we're just going to see repeats of this problem, either you have to do age verification, you have to have delays in content that is uploaded so that you have ways to catch this material before it spreads, or you have to make sure that minors are not able to get onto the platform and experience or share this sort of material. that costs money, it takes time, it's against the business model, and that's the fundamental -- >> as was point out in this hearing, the money that is being spent on safety is a tiny percentage of the money these companies are bringing in. adam, we hear so much again of this conversation from the tech ceos. it's what about parents can control. but as senator amy klobuchar pointed out, they're not always the best experts on this stuff. take a listen. >> just to be clear, i remember one mom telling me with all these things, it's like a faucet

overflowing in a sink and she's out there with a mop while her kids are getting addicted to more and more different apps and being exposed to material. we've got to make this simpler for parents so they can protect their kids. >> she argues this needs to be on the company because they know their apps inside and out rather than the parents. is that fair, and can it be done? do they know how to do it but it might not be a good business model? >> that's a great question. i think there's two parts to it. i think senator klobuchar's example was really illustrative there. absolutely the onus has been shifted entirely on parents right now, and that is just unacceptable for the things we've talked about. the complication, the fact that a child has control of their own device and maybe a sophistication their parents don't have. right now the onus is put entirely on the parents, and obviously the platforms have a greater sense of ability and understanding and controls there, and i think as ryan had noted correctly, the incentives

and business model to keep promoting and pushing this. within those platforms there's a real fight as people realize somebody's going to have to take the blame. meta came out with a proposal who said we're fine, it's apple and google and the smartphone manufacturers that need to take control of this problem. you see others arguing different aspects of it. it is very clear platforms need to do more and as ryan said, it will need a business model legislation that will hold them to account. the challenge here is that the tools that we have that would be most effective, particularly age verification, are a very difficult technology to implement absent a kind of government mandate that kind of puts a greater risk when it comes there. the kind of biggest tool makes it hard. everything else around that margin is stuff that companies are edging towards. and right now trying to push on to some other companies so they don't have to take the responsibility for it. ultimately, i think as you see through the passion through the senators and the parents here,

it's going to fall on all of them. i think it's clear that it won't happen on their own. so i think what you're seeing is while congress might not take action, we've seen pretty robust action being taken from the states. california's age appropriate design code, the utah bill. these are facing really big court challenges, and it's not clear they'll survive. it is just building this patchwork of momentum that eventually if congress doesn't continue to act will end up with some amalgam of protections that vary across states in the same way we have protections that vary from the united states to you, often with the united states having less protections. >> ryan, i can't speak to the constitutionality of these or how they might actually make their way through the courts, but simple proposals are age verification and parental approval. how far could just those things go toward at least starting to correct the problem? >> i think age verification provides a really important break and is probably the most workable of those options. that comes with some down sides because then you're starting to

put people's i.d.s into big databases. some people do go online to assume a different identity if you're a young gay or trans kid. maybe you don't want the world to know who you are as you express yourself. it's not a black and white situation here. but what i would say is when we think about our planes, our cars, our food, we don't regulate it by just seeing what works and then when a plane falls out of the sky, we figure it out later. we have systems to check in advance what does work, sort of what is practical. we find the flaws before the thing gets released into the world, and tech has to move a little bit more in that direction as well. it can't just move fast, break things and then say, sorry, in congress like it has for all of these years. >> amy klobuchar who's been involved in this issue a very long time says, you know, you have one plane, the door blows out, no one dies, thank god, but ground all the planes. we see and have verification of children whose deaths are tied

to social media sites and we do nothing. let's see if anything comes out of this. thank you both very much, adam connor and ryan heath, we appreciate it. in 60 seconds, new details on how, where and where the u.s. could respond to the strike that killed american troops, and how part of it could be online. compn you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. always dry scoop before you run. the hot dog diet got me shredded! the world is full of "health experts"... it's time we listen to science. one a day is formulated with b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. science that matters. (rachael) i live with a broken phone i can't trade in. (female friend) ok, that's dramatic. a better plan is verizon... (rachael) oh, yeah. let's go! (vo) new and existing customers can trade in any samsung phone for a new galaxy s24+, watch and tablet, all on us! that's up to $1,800 in value. only on verizon.

about the size and scope of the biden administration's plan to punish iran for the deadly attack on u.s. service members. we don't know when, but it's not expected to be a one-off. nbc news has learned the strategy is likely to be a combination of military strikes and cyber attacks and hit iranian targets in multiple locations, in multiple countries over a period of weeks. it does not appear to include plans to strike inside iranian territory, although the precise list of targets has apparently not been finalized. the head of iran's revolutionary guard responding early this

morning saying, quote, we will not let any threat remain unanswered. we are not looking for a war but are not afraid of war either. meanwhile, the attacks against u.s. forces in the region have not stopped. overnight, iranian backed militants fired another missile at a u.s. warship in the red sea, but no injuries or damage are reported. i want to bring in nbc's keir simmons in northern iraq, peter baker is chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" and an msnbc political analyst, retired army four-star general barry mccaffrey is an msnbc military analyst. thank you all for being here. general, what's your reaction to at least the rough outline of the plan as i just described it and as my colleagues are reporting? >> very encouraging approach. i think the worst thing would have been a single pulse attack on limited targets inside syria alone. every terrorist in the middle east now is in a hole with a rug

pulled over his head. they've got to have some time to develop targets and then go after them in a systematic way and preemptively go after them. i think the other thing that was much of an agonizing decision for the biden team, but not going after targets in iran is the right thing to do at this point. the escalation of the war would be likely. no good will come of it. so i'm very encouraged by what we're learning now emerging as the response to this disaster strike on hour 22 in jordan. >> the group suspected of being behind the attack is base idea you are in iraq, and they could well be on the target list. now that militia is saying it will suspend attacks on u.s. bases. what's happening? what do we know? is there pressure from iran and iraq? what can you tell us? >> i think there has been

pressure from iran. i don't think you can trust that group, hezbollah, that it's really suspending actions. i suspect it's attempting to put pressure on president biden to reduce the level of the strikes. i don't think that's likely to have a big effect, but i do think that as general mccaffrey outlined there, the president has faced some really tough decisions here, no u.s. president has hit inside iran since the revolution for good reason because of the potential escalation. wouldn't strike, for example, in lebanon because you might light a fuse with hezbollah, so syria does appear to be the most likely main target. even here in iraq, it's hard to believe, i know, but iraq is both a partner of the u.s. and a partner of iran, so the danger about strikes here in iraq where hezbollah is mainly is that you destabilize that and push iraq further towards iran. that's just a picture of how difficult this is, and then just

add to that just as an example, the mm ali base in syria, that is the one, potentially the iranian based closest to tower 22, that's likely to be struck, but it's been struck before by allegedly the israelis and also by the u.s., just in november, the u.s. hit and says it killed eight members of hezbollah, and here we are now with the strike on tower 22. qassem sul ma knee, the leader of the iranian-backed militia in this region, here we are. as we prepare for these strikes and hear about what the biden administration has planned, we have a duty to ask what impact is it really going to have long-term? are you going to be able to shift iran's strategic aim, which is to try to push the u.s. out of this region using its proxies, using shadow war, if

you like. that is the big question, and i think it's a question we're going to have to keep asking. >> and i think probably without a doubt, right, general, you've been in these rooms. the question that the administration is asking, considering, talk about the complexity of the decision that with the advice of military leaders president biden has to make in this situation. >> well, you know, i've been in the national security council meetings with three presidents over the years. any decision that ends up in the nfc is one in which you have a series of lousy, dangerous complex options. keir absolutely put this together the right way. there's a couple of easy decisions. don't strike iran directly yet. there's a couple of obvious decisions, try and keep a

secret. we're not very good at keeping secrets. try and use cyber warfare, special operations strikes, secret economic attacks on iran directly, but don't go to war with iran. the final one is, you know, i think the biden administration, the country is going to have to grapple with the notion of why are we still in iraq with 2,500 troops? what's the purpose of the 900 troops in syria? it's a counter isis mission, but the question is are we actually serving our interests staying there if we're just a target? so that's a follow-on decision but one that the administration is going to have to face up to. >> peter, as you know, republicans have pounced saying that delaying a response makes us look weak. do you have any insights into why the administration is telegraphing the way they are, the things that they're saying about their plans, but have delayed as far as we know again actually following through on any of them?

>> well, look, sometimes it takes time in order to get these set up, right? so there was the strike, for instance, on american soldiers on christmas day, and the president authorized a response that happened that day, but he also authorized that same day a strike on a militia leader blamed for that attack. that didn't take place until january 4th when they felt like they had it in their sight in a clear cut way that wasn't going to cause a lot of casualties among civilians. it can take time depending on all kinds of circumstances. you want to make sure you hit it at the right time, not necessarily hit it right away. you're right, there obviously is a sense of urgency here. you want to make sure your deterrent response is close enough to the event itself that it sends the message that you want to send, the message, of course, being don't try this again. if you try it, you will pay a price. that's the middle ground that the biden administration is looking for. they're looking for one national security analyst in a goldy locks scenario.

not so soft that you encourage these proxies and iran, which is behind them, to keep doing what they've been doing. >> general, i want to remind people what we've been hearing for the last several days from the president and his top officials. >> we do not seek conflict with iran. >> we certainly don't seek a war, and frankly, we don't see iran wanting to seek a war with the united states. >> we are not looking for a war with iran. >> we do not seek to escalate tensions in the region. >> i don't think we need a wider war in the middle east. that's not what i'm looking for. >> should we trust, general, that no one on the other side really wants a wider war either? >> well, we certainly got our talking points down throughout the administration. >> there's a consistency, that's for sure. >> i think, look, at the end of the day, the iranians are far less predictable than we are. yes, they could do something completely illogical, strike a

u.s. navy warship, potentially become a nuclear power, that's probably in the cards in the coming year. i would not count on the iranians acting rationally logically, even though we could devastate iran's economy with a 90 day u.s. air force naval air campaign. so here we are, what do we do, you know? at the end of the day, i think what the administration has decided to do is to try and juice this thing along. they have a huge political problem, america doesn't want to see another war in the middle east. so president biden really has very few options here. the best one is going to be classified secret operations against militia units, but again, in iraq where keir was reporting from, it seems to me we're going to have to discuss getting out of there. it's almost a completely

untenable position right now as a counter isis international coalition, it's not going to work out. >> peter, we've talked on this program before about the obvious politics of this, right? you have a president who is in the middle of what he considers to be and what donald trump considers to be a general election campaign, and joe biden has made no secret of the fact that he thinks that the re-election, the possible re-election of donald trump would be dangerous for this country and this world, so he has that as a backdrop. is there anything much that they can do quietly, does joe biden and does this administration need to make a public show of a reaction 3 as he has said, three american service members are dead. >> yeah, at least some of their response has to be public and visible. otherwise you lose the deterrent, you know, effect that you're looking for and of course obviously there are the domestic

politics. the domestic politics are complicated, though, because you do have, you know, hawkish republican senators saying that the president should be hitting inside iran, in fact, tom cotton, the senator from arkansas said the president would be a coward if he doesn't do it. you also have a different part of the republican party, which is not actually for more war in the middle east, the tucker carlson part of the republican party, and the donald trump part of the republican party which is reluctant to engage iran in a military way. donald trump pulled back, called off a strike against iranian assets in his presidency at the last minute, just ten minutes before they were ready to go because he thought it was excessive. he didn't want to escalate himself. so you're not hearing donald trump calling for a particularly, you know, massive attack on iran. you are hearing him criticize biden saying biden is weak and that's why iran thinks they can get away with this. he himself, donald trump is not necessarily calling for some sort of a wider war either, and that makes the politics a little more, you know, a little more

fluid than they have been in previous instances. >> peter baker, general barry mccaffrey, thanks to both of you. i just want to let our viewers know that john kirby from the national security council is in the white house briefing room taking questions, and we are going to listen in, and if we get any news that's made there, we will let you know. coming up, though, donald trump's campaign cash and how he's spending it in courtrooms. how much longer are trump's donors willing to foot his staggering legal bills? legal bs

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the money wars are in full battle mode on the presidential campaign trail, and the current focus is the cash cow that is florida. nikki haley is wooing big money donors in palm beach today after attacking donald trump following reports he spent $50 million of donor money on legal fees last year. a stunning number, though, perhaps not a surprise given as "the new york times" puts it, that trump who has long been loathe to pay lawyers himself has been directing 10% of donations raised online to his save america pact, meaning $0.10 of every dollar he has received from supporters is going to a pac that chiefly funds his lawyers. haley's attacks on trump are being echoed by president biden who was in florida for two fundraisers yesterday where he called trump, among other things, quote, a loser. nbc's ali vitali is covering the

haley campaign for us. tim miller is the former communications director for jeb bush 2016 and an msnbc political analyst. 50 million bucks, tim. is there a point at which trump's donors are wary of paying for his legal troubles? >> i think at scale probably not, but individually, yes. i think it's important saying what this is, that he's running a scam and a fraud that's in line with a lot of the frauds that he ran in the private sector, which is why he has legal troubles on that side currently in his civil trial and in the past with the trump university trial. there's been reporting, "the new york times" has done a great job of this that talked to actual people who did not realize they were still paying donald trump $10 a month because they precheck one of these emails where you think you're paying him one time and they turn into a monthly recurring donation. he is running a fraud, at least some number of his supporters are victims of that fraud.

that said, at the same time, there's another group that are happy to keep giving him money and are happy to have him use it on whatever he wants and thinks this is all part of the fight against the deep state and the elites and blah blah blah. i think that both of those things are true at the same time. >> does it catch up to him at some point in this way, if you're spending $50 million on legal fees, you're not spending $50 million on the campaign, right, tim. on the other hand, we do know that he has used every court appearance as a mega phone, but does it hurt him? >> i think in the general election it could. you know, we saw news just this week the biden super pac is dropping 250 million starting general campaign effort. that's an astonishing effort, the biggest ad buy ever in history. in the primary he gets free media in maga media and conservative media. that's worth more than ads anyway. in the general election, absolutely, i expect that his court dates and the fact that he has to spend campaign money on

them is going to have an impact on the margins. it might be a close election, so the margins might matter. >> ali, tell us more about how nikki haley is responding to these reports of $50 million in legal fees, but also how is she spending the money that she has raised? >> reporter: well, look, you and i both know that the life blood of these campaigns comes from the donor stops that nikki haley is doing both in new york earlier this week as well as the one she's doing in florida and of course on to california next week. all of this is her trying to stockpile the cash she'll need to go at least through super tuesday which she has outwardly promised is her goal at this point. coast through south carolina and on to the super tuesday states. nevertheless, she's also focusing her fire on the former president saying that the 50 million in legal fees that are being paid for for him is a reason why she says he won't debate her. this is something we've heard from haley over and over again. now she's just using this as the latest piece of information to say this is another reason why trump doesn't want to face her on the debate stage.

of course, haley has been trying to make it a binary between herself and her former boss for the entirety of her candidacy. she got that in new hampshire, now she's trying to get them on the same debate stage together. but more than that, she's also fund-raising off of him. listen to what she got her biggest boon lit off of most recently, watch. >> after trump went on that temper tantrum, we raised a million dollars. after he said anybody that supports her, you know, can't be part of maga, we raised another 1.6 million. after he went and tried to say the republican should name him the nominee, we raised another 1.4 million. >> reporter: and look, tim knows this, you know this, chris, those are not insignificant amounts of money, especially when you're going to be putting them into a pretty limited number of states at this point. yes, it's south carolina, but it's also the limited number of super tuesday states that haley's going to come up against, places like virginia, texas, michigan, that her campaign manager has already pointed out, but in addition to calling trump out for what haley calls temper tantrums, she's

also trying to continue to focus on his age and the fact that she is equivocating him with president joe biden, there has been a consistent refrain that haley has used, trump and biden, biden and trump. she's now echoing that in a recent are tweet and an ad where she calls them both grumpy old men and continues to point out that this is not another rematch that americans want. that's something that haley continues pitching on the stump. she is hoping she can pull in independents, maybe even some south carolina democrats here to help her make her case in her home state. >> we've just got a minute left, president biden made that fund-raising swing through florida and told donors don't give up. there's a possibility i could still win florida. somebody at dnc said something similar. i checked the website of the secretary of state just for my edification and saw that there are nearly 780,000 more registered republicans than there are democrats now, quite a

flip over the last decade or so. do you see any world in which, a, the democrats, biden put a lot of money into florida? or that the map that we think we know that's about seven or so states changes? >> i think the about seven or so are right. i wouldn't be surprised if texas is closer than florida at this point. there could be an important senate race in florida, whereas florida will not be the deciding state in the presidential level, it may be the race against rick scott there, so you might see the democrats put some money in the state just to try to tamp down margins at the presidential level to give them a chance in the senate lace. >> race. coming up, hashing out a potential new deal to get more hostages out of gaza. we'll speak to a family member who just got an update on those talks at the white house and who knows what it's like to wait and hope to get their loved one home. hope to get their loved on home (applause)

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room. her 4-year-old niece was the first american hostage released in november after spending 50 days in captivity. thank you so much for coming on the program. i know you've remained a part of this group of families in regular contact with the administration. what were the key questions yesterday for jake sullivan, and do you feel you got answers? >> well, thank you, first, for having me, and i think the key questions were just about the news that we have been hearing that's being reported, is it accurate, and are the negotiations as intense as we are told they are. and i think that this gave mr. sullivan an opportunity and mr. mcgurk was in the room as well to give us a little bit of a feeling of what's happening with the negotiations but not to give us the details obviously because they can't. i think it was a great opportunity. we met with mr. sullivan ten days ago, and he was committed to meeting with us again, and this gave these families, there

are eight american hostages, six who we know are alive, and it gave us an opportunity for us to talk about and for these families to share and for mr. sullivan and mr. mcgurk to just hear the pain of these families, but also to give them some understanding that there's cautious smirk that there is a deal and -- cautious optimism that there is a deal, and they have taken that meeting with us in a busy time, and also an opportunity for mr. sullivan to reaffirm the 24/7 commitment of himself, president biden, secretary blinken, the administration, and the releasing of the 136 hostages is their top priority. >> on one hand, we are hearing this optimism, our reporters in the field are hearing that optimism, but just yesterday, prime minister netanyahu explicitly ruled out two key hamas demands, no pull out from

gaza, no exchange of palestinian prisoners as hostages, and he said flat out, none of that will happen. how are you and the other families feeling about the approach? >> we're the family members, and for us this is a humanitarian crisis. what i can say is what we hear on the news and some of the posturing, we believe that there is a serious commitment on the israelis' behalf and all of these people, the egyptians, the qataris with the americans in negotiating for the release of these hostages. what i will say is that it's a negotiation, so there's people having to give in and to get, and for us, the only thing that we are committed to as families is the release of these hostages and just to remind everyone that on october 7th over 1,200 people were murdered. 40 of them were americans. too were hostages, and there's still 136 people that remain in gaza. and the last thing for prime

minister netanyahu to want would be his legacy to be what happened on october 7th. i don't think that would be what any leader would want to have that absolute failure of security to be his legacy. and right now, his legacy is based on bringing back these hostages and finding a way for israel to move forward, and the only way israel moves forward is if these hostages are released, and they have to be released soon. >> let me ask you about one particular hostage who was released and i know you're very careful about respecting abigail's privacy, but is there anything you can share at this point about her experience in captivity and tell us how she's doing now? >> well, thank you for asking, and, yes, we are very very cautious because she's a 4-year-old. look, we understand that for 50 days she and the others were pretty much silenced. and you imagine a 4-year-old who's running around and basically not able to run around, not able to laugh, not

able to cry. and that was her experience. saying more than that, what i will say is that she was blessed to come home on the 50th day. it was a miracle. i mean, these hostages now we're talking about have been gone 117 days, it's more than double. and what i can say is that abigail is a energetic, beautiful, really intelligent little 4-year-old who has returned to be with the family after her parents were murdered. but she gets to go to school and she plays, and, you know, i will just say that for our family, abigail returning gave us the ability to move forward. other hostage families, until their relatives are back, they cannot move forward, and i say that for the nation because israel is such a small country and people are all related. that until these 136 people, hostages return, it makes it impossible for israel to move forward. we are blessed, and i'm here

because everybody worked really hard to make sure there was a formula to bring out the first hostages and we're going to do everything to make sure the second group comes out and they all come out so that the blessing of having abigail home with us, this beautiful 4-year-old, we want to have a beautiful life, after everything, we want that same for all of these other families. >> well, from a personal perspective, i think after everything you've been through, the way you are standing by these families, which can only provide a beacon of hope for them about what may come is extraordinary, and we thank you so much for taking the time, liz hersh-neftali. >> thank you so much for having me. >> and we'll be right back. ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. las vegas grand prix choose t-mobile for business for 5g solutions. because t-mobile is helping power operations and experiences for hundreds of thousands of fans

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