things have been stuck for a very, very long while, so this is -- >> a few seconds left, but what do you want the prime minister to do? do you want him to compromise now and put the hostages ahead of the military campaign? >> our prime minister we hope knows the importance of bringing back all of the hhostages, famously his brother died in the battle of bringing back the group of hostages. he was the one that backed the hostages in a previous deal, so we have to trust that he will put this through, and we hope that statements saying otherwise are just negotiation tactics or things that don't represent what he's truly trying to achieve. >> thank you very much, maya roman, and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports," "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day, i'm chris jansing

live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it's not something we say very often, but congress appears on the verge of actually accomplishing something. more than 350 house members, even speaker johnson himself have signed on to a multibillion dollar deal that could give a tax break to millions of families and businesses, but will senate republicans end up sinking it? for the first time in a long time, we heard from defense secretary lloyd austin pinning the blame directly on iran for the deadly attack on u.s. service members and insisting they'll pay the price. >> we've not described what our response is going to be, but we look to hold the people that are responsible for this accountable. >> but the question is when and is the delay getting iranian backed militants time to get away. and the government is gearing up for a price war with big pharma, with billions of your dollars at stake. hhs secretary xavier becerra

will join me later in the show to talk about how it could impact the price you pay for important medicines. but we begin with a rare show of bipartisanship and arguably an even more rare sign of action in a highly partisan election year, congressional progress. the house has overwhelmingly passed a $78 billion tax bill that would expand the child tax credit and bring back a large swath of corporate tax breaks. it has the support of house speaker mike johnson. senate majority leader chuck schumer and the white house, but because it is a highly partisan election year, senate republicans are divided, and senator chuck grassley at least said it out loud, quote, passing a tax bill that makes the president look good may allow checks before the election, and means he can be reelected. well, the bill does not include checks for americans, but it does include a tax credit. what happens now?

nbc's sahil kapur, also with us eugene daniels "politico's" white house correspondent and an msnbc political contributor, brendan buck is former aide to house speakers paul ryan and john boehner, partner at seven letters and an msnbc political analyst. okay, sahil, this wasn't even close. 357-70, but what about the senate? >> that's right, chris. well, the path is still unclear in the senate at this time. this was a huge bipartisan vote, unusual in these times. this particular bill would expand the child tax credit, it would lift the refund blt cap. the biggest benefits would go to low income families, especially those with multiple children, and it would also include some breaks for businesses on expensing and research and development. take a listen to how the republican chairman and the democratic ranking member of the tax committee talked about this bill. >> the tax relief for american families and workers act is

pro-growth, pro-jobs, pro-american. it's a strong common sense bipartisan step forward in providing urgent tax relief for working families and small businesses. >> this is a bipartisan piece of legislation not perfection. it's not what i would have written, but this is a decent tax package to go forward. >> reporter: and now this goes to the senate. chuck schumer, the majority leader told me yesterday he's working with ron wyden to figure out a path forward. the obstacle is senate republicans, mitch mcconnell is deferring to mike crapo who has said he wants changes tho this bill. he identified one of those changes. he wants to change the so-called lookback requirement to prevent people from using a prior year's tax return to get a bigger child credit benefit. that's one of the changes he seems to wanted in a markup. of course the political side, chuck grassley saying the quiet part loud doesn't want president biden to look good in an election year because it might help him win, chris.

>> so how much does chuck grassley's mentality stretch beyond him? >> yeah, i think it stretches a little bit within the caucus, right? he is typically not talking just about himself when they're talking about these things because when you talk to members of congress whether they be on the house side or the senate side, that is top of mind, making sure they're trying to find out ways to not make joe biden look good over the next ten months that we have left in this election year. and i will say the white house is often less worried about the senate, but something like this does give them a little bit of heartburn because it's not just one issue that senators have with this bill, right? it's not just a look back. there are other things that other senators have so trying to figure out how to please all of those republican senators here is going to be something that's going to, you know, be a little bit tougher than some of these other bills that come forward. >> brendan, june mcgovern who's the top democrat on the rules committee told punch bowl they

haven't passed a rule for a bill that's become law in eight months. congressional deadlock is not anything new. do you think this could be a moment of bipartisanship? >> yeah, i like to tell people, bipartisanship is not completely dead. you just rarely hear about it. there are things that happen all the time in congress that we just don't talk about them because there's not as much conflict, frankly. the house obviously did a debt limit deal not too long ago, they actually passed a pretty robust health care reform package on a similar big bipartisan vote. these things happen. this particular bill, though, is somewhat unique in circumstances. this is a situation where the 2017 tax cut bill that i was there for on the hill, parts of that law have begun to expire, and some of that is having real impact. there's a situation here where democrats wanted to do something on child tax credit and just about happened to equal what republicans wanted to do on the

business tax breaks, and they're happy to be this pay for, this offset that existed based on a pandemic-era program that's being misused. all the pieces sort of seem to come together at this time. these things can happen. they're just not rewarded politically, and that's why you don't see it very often. your median house member still wants to get things done. they just don't get rewarded for getting things done so it becomes more and more rare that things like this happen. we prove time and time again they are still possible if they operate on a little bit different political plane than we're used to. >> sahil, speaking of having to operate on a little different political plane, the other big fight on the hill is of course the border bill. where does that stand? >> reporter: yeah, this is starting to feel like ground hog day. these negotiators have been telling us for about a month now they're close, they're right on the cusp of releasing texts. they can't quite seem to get there. senator langford the lead republican negotiator told our colleague that they don't expect legislative texts to come out

today. he expects to get it done this week. that is a hope of theirs as i've been saying for quite some time. there are two key holdsups to this legislative text on the immigration front. the first is the numbers. they're checking with appropriate tors to make sure there's enough funding. if there aren't the resources for the executive branch to enforce them, that's the fundamental rot at the heart of the immigration system. all these laws congress passed, they don't give dhs and the administration the resources to properly implement them, which forces the president to make these impossible decisions. the second holdup is republican leadership. mitch mcconnell, the minority leader i'm told is checking with his members to make sure the support is there on the front end so they won't have to make changes suddenly after this is released and after some parts end up getting criticized. that is turning out to be a tall order. republicans want at least 25 of their 49 members on board in order to move forward with this, and of course time is not on their side. let's have a listen to what two republican senators said about the trajectory of this bill.

>> right now it's on a trajectory going the wrong direction for passage. certainly in the house it's losing support, i think in the senate it's getting harder for republicans, you know, the path to a majority of the republicans is getting narrower. >> politics is always, we just happen to be in the middle of a political cycle where we've got congressmen up every two years, some cases a month away from primary elections. >> reporter: and that's about what this boils down, a divided and dysfunctional congress has chosen one of the most challenging moments to tackle one of the most challenging issues. >> they're actually close this time. you cannot dispute that they have been working hard on this in a bipartisan way, and yet, republican negotiator senator james lankford is really frustrated and other people on the committee are as well, among the negotiators are as well. there are folks who have not

even seen the bill who are believing lies about it on the internet. here's what he said. >> this ongoing thing that this allows 5,000 people in a day every day and checks them in. there's no way that's in the bill number one. i would never agree to that. it's also a total mischaracterization of the bill. that's out there on the internet. we're at a moment where people believe what they read on the internet and that's just the challenge that we have. and until the text gets out there and everyone can see it, it will make a difference. >> even if the text is out there, do you think, brendan, that negotiators can fight lies with facts? are we so deeply in this alternate universe that if you say something enough and your supporters believe it enough, that the facts don't matter? >> yeah, i mean, you're hitting on the fundamental problem that makes legislating so difficult today. i mean, ask yourself, is our politics made for nuance? is our politics made for complexities and tradeoffs that are necessary, and there is no issue that is perhaps more

complicated and has more nuance than immigration. and that's why this was always going to be such an uphill climb. now, i do want to say i think they have -- >> yeah, i mean, people are

starting to feel a lot less confident, right? whether you talk to them, weeks ago they were feeling really good about it. the longer things are out there, the more that you allow donald trump to continue to attack, the more that he's talking to the speaker of the house mike johnson telling him to try to kill it before it even can get to the senate floor. we've seen how mike johnson has used, you know, his first speech on the floor as speaker to try to do that. he has sent out these different kinds of letters to do that and done interviews on fox news to do that exact same thing. i will also say on the left end of things, right, for president biden, you're hearing from i talked to senator alex padilla of california the other day, who has been disappointed, he said, in this entire process, the makeup of the negotiators, his frustration, that there's not one -- there's no latino that are negotiating and that they feel like because we haven't

seen it that folks on the left feel like democrats are giving up too much in these negotiations. so the -- you know, the thorns are coming from both sides in this, and the sooner they get this out, the cleaner it will be for folks. people still are not feeling great about passage at this point. though the white house continues to put up a brave face because they really want that ukraine aid. >> in just 60 seconds, the u.s. about when, where and how it will respond to iran. we'll have a live report from bahrain. plus, today the secretary of defense comments on his controversial hospital stay. we'll talk to one of my colleagues who was in the pentagon briefing room for that moment. >> we did not handle this right. and i did not handle this right. i take full responsibility. ke fy i know what it's like to perform through pain. if you're like me, one of the millions suffering from pain caused by migraine,

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happening right now. jennifer crumbley is on the stand testifying in her own defense. she, of course, is the first parent to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in connection with a mass shooting by her own child. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos joins me now. we got confirmation. the defense plans for her to be their on witness. what are you watching for, and is the defendant as a witness, let alone an only witness a good idea? >> the conventional wisdom is that you'd never call your client to the stand unless you absolutely have to get a piece of information from him or her you cannot get anywhere else. this is a case like that. consider this, the jury's been listening to piece of evidence after piece of evidence showing all the red flags that this defendant allegedly ignored. they need to hear from her. she needs to get up there and develop the theme, and the theme is this. number one, they have to humanize her. you always go through some background information, get the

jury to realize that she is just a person. then she has to develop, yes, there may have been red flags, but there were many other things that were not red flags and perhaps the most important i suspect you'll see this, finger pointing. look, i was a working mother. i was overwhelmed. i did the very best i could and i didn't get a lot of help, a lot of help probably meaning the husband, co-defendant, she hasn't spoken to for quite some time since the arrest. >> there's another issue here and it came out yesterday that during this period she was having an affair and that was one of the first things, looking at the document from our folks inside the room, that she was asked about. as you talk about making her sympathetic, does that hurt? people saying you weren't paying attention to your kid because you had this happening. >> of course it hurts, and that's why the government or the prosecution loves this kind of evidence. i mean, you can ask yourself what does it really matter that somebody was having an affair

given these particular charges. yes, it fits into the theory that you were, oh, so busy on your phone texting your paramour that you couldn't watch your own son. it's relevant, that's why the prosecution introduces it. it's thinly disguised character evidence. they're really saying, hey, lest you think otherwise this is a bad person and you should judge her accordingly. the rules of evidence say you cannot introduce evidence for that reason. they're basically saying, oh, you were so busy with your love life that you neglected, you avoided, you ignored these obviously red flags. look, this is a defendant that almost has to take the stand because she's the only one who can try to explain to the jury that she believed she did everything she could and that other people, not just her were responsible. >> we have seen that she has been very emotional sitting at the desk, we'll see how that

happens as well. we're going to continue to watch this. she literally just started stoontd. we're going to wait a while, listen to what she has to say, see how this is going. let's move to the middle east. the u.s. reporting multiple small scale attacks on iranian drones today, but still appears to be waiting for the right moment to launch more aggressive large scale assaults. overnight, the uss carney fired by houthi rebels in yemen along with several drones or uavs. two u.s. officials also confirmed to nbc news that the u.s. sent f-18 super hornets to take out multiple attack drones in yemen before they could get off the ground. here's u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin in his first appearance at the pentagon in more than a month. sticking to the administration line when repeatedly questioned about why the u.s. hasn't responded more forcefully yet.

>> we will respond when we choose, where we choose, and how we choose. i don't think the adversary have a one and done mind-set, and so they have a lot of capability. i have a lot more. >> i want to bring in nbc's courtney kube following the middle east developments from bahrain. mark polly mor rop las, an msnbc national security and intelligence analyst. courtney, what's the latest on the ground, and sort of what's the thinking as you know it about when the u.s. might move? >> so what we should be thinking about is for context, the houthis when they have fired missiles and drones into the red sea, the u.s. and the british in some cases have gone in and attacked the sorts of sites that

would keep them from being able to fire future missiles and launch future drones, trying to degrade that capability to attack. the same thing with the retaliatory strikes in iraq and syria. when there has been a case where americans have been injured in some of those attacks, the u.s. has responded by taking out warehouse where is they store the drones or the launchers or anything like that. what's going to be different here, chris, is this is going to be a larger response than we've seen in the past according to u.s. officials. we should think about multiple locations, multiple types of u.s. military assets being used here, and the goal in this case is not just degrading the capabilities, but in fact, it's more about deterring. the hope is if they can show enough of a response here, it will deter these groups from carrying out future attacks. and the reality is, the reason this response is expected to be so much bigger and frankly, we're hearing it's being called a campaign that could occur over

a matter of days and weeks, it's because of the attack on sunday in jordan. three american soldiers killed, 41 more people injured because of the level of the severity of that attack, the seriousness of that attack, that's why we expect this next round of retaliation to frankly just be much bigger than what we've seen in the recent past, chris. >> nbc news has learned that while we wait to retaliate for the deaths of three american service members, shiite militias are abandoning their bases in iraq and syria, and in addition, five sources have told reuters that iran is repositioning its military pulling senior officers and its revolutionary guard out of syria. is the u.s. helping iran and its allies by waiting to attack? >> so chris, i think a lot of us have been a bit concerned. it's been four days since the tragic deaths of three u.s. soldiers, so the question is why has the retaliation not come? because as you noted, the reports are coming in that the

irgc personnel and syria are bugging out. same thing in terms of the proxies in iraq. why has this not occurred? on the one hand you think that the department of defense is taking their time, doing the right thing, but as i've heard from multiple sources, there also might be an issue with weather, and so perhaps we're reading in too much of this. the bottom line is i think this delay does kind of call into question what the effectiveness of the strikes are going to be. the bottom line is that we have to do this. we have to, as courtney said, we have to regain that aura of deterrence and ultimately iran has to feel some pain here. so i think, i would hope you'd see the strikes start in the next 24 to 48 hours, but the delay has really not been something that i think is a positive development. >> do you have any concern on the american side? and we saw what happened in 2013 with syria. it seemed like we were going to launch a military response and then after a few weeks, the will to do so seemed to slip away. are you worried that could happen again? >> honestly, that's what a lot of us who followed and lived in

the region for a long time thought about, the famous red line from the obama administration in terms of, you know, holding syria accountable for a chemical weapons strike, and we never did. that's one thing that came to mind as this four-day delay has gone forward. again, if it's because of weather, nothing you can do about that. i think that, you know, why the iranians are saying perhaps some of the right things diplomatically and some of the proxies have said they'd stand down in attacks, iran is never going to abandon their proxies in syria and iraq. we have to hold them accountable. so that kind of 2013 incident in syria really kind of overhangs a lot of this. >> yeah, and military action obviously is what a lot of people think of when they hear retaliation. a drone went onto a u.s. military base and killed u.s. military members, wounded dozens of others, some seriously, but there is the other option,

right, or the simultaneous option, which is cyber attacks that could be part of the u.s. response. what might that look like? because i think an obvious question for a lot of people who don't know how this stuff works is what would that actually accomplish? what's likely? >> there's a big menu that president biden has, overt military strikes and then there's kind of the covert action options. some of the things that the intelligent community has done in the past. there's been cyber operations that have gone after the iranian nuclear program, that's been widely reported. so there's things on the cyber side that i think we certainly can do that i hope would be on the menu, and frankly, chris, we might not actually see, and i think the biden administration has actually said that. you're going to see some things overtly. there might be some things behind the scenes you won't see. the bottom line is the iranians will know. that's what matters the most. >> they're not going to put it on the front page of a newspaper, that's for sure.

thank you both so much. the dod briefing marked the first time we had heard from secretary austin regarding his controversial decision to keep the president and the american people in the dark about his hospitalization for cancer treatment exactly one month ago today. i want to bring in nbc's peter alexander who was at today's briefing. tell us more about what he had to say. >> reporter: well, chris, it was not only what the secretary of defense said but actually how he appeared, the first time we've seen him publicly, speaking out in about six weeks. he was noticeably thinner. he was walking with a limp. he says he still has leg pain as a function of the complications as a result of his treatment for prostate cancer. secretary austin did describe his cancer diagnosis as a gut punch. he says he regrets the secrecy, the lack of transparency and how it was handled by himself and his colleagues, and he said he did not direct his staff to conceal the emergency from the white house or from president biden, and he also delivered a

very public apology. here's part of what secretary austin said. >> i wanted to be crystal clear, we did not handle this right, and i did not handle this right. i should have told the president about hi cancer diagnosis. i should have also told my team and the american public. as president of the united states, you've got a lot of things on your plate, so putting my personal issue on, adding to his -- all the things that he's got on his plate, i just didn't feel that that was a thing that i should do at the time, but again, i recognize that that was a mistake and i should have done that differently. >> reporter: secretary austin made clear he was shaken by his diagnosis saying in part why he wasn't more public about it, why he didn't share it with the white house or the president for days. obviously for republicans and some of the critics of this administration it raises real questions about judgment.

nonetheless, we have heard so far from the white house that president biden maintains his confidence in secretary austin. austin spoke to their conversations a little bit saying that he directly communicated his apology to the president. he's in a position to help conduct the u.s. military operations going forward, help further detailing what the u.s. is considering as it looks to strike back following the death of those three american service members in the middle east, chris. >> peter alexander who was at the pentagon, now is at the white house, thank you, peter. we do appreciate it. and right after the break, donald trump's search for new lawyers, could he find someone, anyone, who will fight to overturn the big e. jean carroll verdict. plus, the legal battle over what kinds of voting machines are allowed in georgia. then later, the big savings that could be coming for millions of americans on drug prices, but which drugs and when? secretary of health and human

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plus, get the new samsung galaxy s24 on us. now that donald trump is shopping for a new legal team to appeal his big $83.3 million loss in the e. jean carroll case, we've got a couple of key questions. will anyone of any reputation take the case, and does he have a good case? and in yet another first for donald trump, thanks in part to those massive legal bills, new analysis shows his campaign actually sent more in 2023 than it took in. filings show payments from his pac to more than 47 law firms and attorneys. msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin joins me now. 47 different law firms and attorneys? we all know that beyond carroll, he's got the case to see whether or not he can stay in business in new york. we know he has four criminal cases involving 91 charges, but

is that number a lot, 47? >> sure, and not all of them belong to him. so in my quick review of that data so far, i've noticed a lot of law firms that represent other people too, and i'll just give you two examples. boris epshteyn, trump's aide who has been identified by "the new york times" although not confirmed by nbc knew as co-conspirator 6 was also a witness in the fulton county rico case. he was represented there by a man named david shaken's. david shaken's law firm is the recipient of some of these funds. ken chesebro was the legal mastermind in some respects of what happened on january 6th. ken chesebro was represented by a man named scott grooveman and manny aurora. a one-time lump sum payment from save america. it goes on and on.

some of the expenses there are not legal at all. there are six $18,000 payments to man named erv pierre, he is best known as melania trump's stylist. >> they consider him a consultant, correct? >> he's a strategy consultant. >> okay. now donald trump has tweeted that he's interviewing law firms because he's going to appeal the verdict from the jury in the e. jean carroll case. i don't think an appeal is any shock to anybody. but what are the challenges for any firm that decides to take on the case? >> the challenges here are huge. let's start with the fact that it's a jury verdict and not a bench trial. there is some deference that any appellate court pays to the finder of fact. now, can they challenge certain evidentiary decisions? sure. can they challenge perhaps the most important decision of all, which is judge kaplan's ruling that an earlier jury's verdict on virtually identical issues, namely that donald trump did

sexually assault e. jean carroll, and as a result the statements he made about her in 2022 were defamatory, can they challenge the effect of that on this trial, that's a legal doctrine we call collateral stop pell, maybe. there aren't sort of big egregious errors one could wrap their arms around. you've seen from his legal team so far the biggest complaint they have is that lou kaplan apparently according to them was biased against them because a former law clerk of his was on e. jean carroll's team. those arguments have gone nowhere with judge kaplan and i expect will go absolutely nowhere with the second circuit, the federal court of appeal that will oversee this. >> one thing donald trump didn't say whether alina habba who's going to stay on for the appeal, and it wouldn't be unusual necessarily that a lawyer who was on the original case, wasn't involved in the appeal, but there's something that happened that i wonder if you can help us make sense of.

alana habba filed a letter with the court and what she alleged is judge kaplan had an improper bias in the case. then she had to withdraw it, and then roberta kaplan said she could ask the court to sanction habba as a result. explain what happened? because it sounds bizarre. >> the new york post published some allegations over the weekend saying something that i just mentioned to you, that roberta kaplan and judge lou kaplan had worked at the same law firm, paul weiss for a couple of years in the early to mid-'90s. alina habba said that proved kaplan was biased against them because robbie kaplan was his mentee. robbie kaplan said she never worked on a case with lou kaplan, she barely knew him, they overlapped for less than two years, et cetera, and then alina habba said this seemingly resolves that.

we're still going to file a motion for a new trial based on larger bias concerns. robbie kaplan's response raises the specter of rule 11 sanctions. that's when somebody puts forth allegations to the court that they either do not know to be true or are reckless in presenting to the court because they don't go through the due diligence to substantiate them before they put them na court filing. you can be sanctioned as a lawyer for that. the words rule 11 are rules that any lawyer practicing in the federal court never wants to hear come out of an adversary's mouth. >> lisa rubin, thank you so much. a georgia judge is hearing closing arguments in a case that could have major applications for the november election. nbc's jane timm is outside the courthouse. tell us about it, jane. >> reporter: georgia's controversial dominion voting machines face their biggest test yet in the courtroom behind me where good government groups and voters are urge ago federal judge to bar the state from using their existing touchscreen voting machines. the plaintiffs argue these

machines are so vulnerable to hacking it violates constitutional rights to allow them to be used by voters here in the state. now, this proceeding has been going on for many years, and georgia's last voting system was also tossed by this judge in this same proceeding. now, the judge has made it clear, she doesn't want to overrule the legislature's authority to choose a voting machine in this case. there are a lot of other things she could do. it really could scramble elections by changing policies and procedures for election workers in the middle of a busy, contentious election cycle or by casting doubt. if you go into primary season or a general election with a federal judge who says the machines can be easily hacked, it's going to change how voters feel about the election. now, plaintiffs are not election deniers per se, but election deniers and trump allies have

absolutely seized on this case as the kind of proof they have been looking for for all these years, proof of the sort of alleged voter fraud, but at the end of the day, election workers say this is any changes in an election year could be nightmarish, and the state says these systems are real world, that the hypothetical hacks that you can talk about in a courtroom or demonstrate in a courtroom as we've seen in this case are prevented by the election policies and procedures that go into every election. either way, voting starts here in just a couple of weeks, early voting for the presidential primary on march 12th, so we're firmly in election season. whatever happens, it's going to be heard well outside the courtroom. >> without a doubt, jane timm at a very important hearing today. thank you. the u.s. and the fight over drugs to bring down those drug prices double what you pay, for example, in britain or france. we've got secretary of health and human services, xavier

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some guarded optimism today that the widely covered and often contentious hearing that put social media ceos in the hot seat could maybe this time produce some change. there were fiery exchanges that put them and their platforms under a brutal microscope. >> you have blood on your hands.

>> your product is a disaster for teenagers. and yet you keep right on doing what you're doing, right? >> not true. that's not true. >> are you going to stop lobbying against this and come to the table and work with us? yes or no? >> senator, we have a -- >> yes or no? >> of course we'll work with you on the legislation. >> okay. the door is open. we've got all these bills. you need -- you need to come to the table, each and every one of you need to come to the table, and you need to work with us. kids are dying. >> nbc's julie tsirkin joins us from capitol hill. as you well know, julie, some of the ceos of those social media companies have been called to capitol hill before, some multiple times producing a lot of talk but not action. will this time be any different? >> chris, isn't that always the question? the internet's been around for two and a half decades and congress has not been able to regulate anything when it comes to that. however, having parents in the room yesterday clad in black,

holding the photos of the children who died at the hands of social media they say they think this is time for change, and that momentum is what's going to make it happen. i talked to some of those parents again this morning because they're still here using their own time, their own money, taking off from work, trying to get this to happen. trying to get legislation across the finish line. the specific bill they want, the kids online safety act. they say it's the most comprehensive bill. it would cover every issue from cyber bullying, to sextortion, to viral challenges that change the lives of their kids. i talked to the bipartisan duo behind that legislation. here's what they said. >> this time really feels different. largely because of the parents who have mobilized to come here with the courage and stroent tell their stories, the grief, the pain. david versus goliath is exactly the right way to view it.

the big tech companies have armies of lawyers and lobbyists. they've been successful in stopping us, but they have the inside game. we have the outside support. >> i think this is going to be that first key that gets across the finish line. >> david versus goliath, that is the phrase one of the moms i talked to used because she thinks that's how the group of moms feels here. they do think david is going to win. it's no surprise to anyone, all legislation moves at a glacial pace here, and certainly there have been efforts as you heard senator blumenthal say by these big tech companies to kill this legislation, including this very bill. they still think because of all the momentum, because of all the parents continuing to share their heartbreaking stories that this is something that could happen in the coming months. we heard from majority leader schumer on this. they said they're working to make it happen too. we'll see. >> julie tsirkin, keep us

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prescriptions. the government is attempting to use its enormous leverage as big pharma's biggest customer, specifically because of medicare. and the biden administration has singled out ten of the costliest medications covered by the program that covered 65 million americans. those ten drugs alone account for more than $50 billion worth. but even with that, medicare recipients still had to spend $3.4 billion out of pocket for those drugs in 2022. joining us now, the secretary of health and human services, javier bacerra. thank you so much for being with us. obviously a tremendous amount of interest in this. make sure i've got this right. negotiations are underway, and big pharma has shown itself to be pretty adept at pricing that favors their companies, so what does a negotiation look like, and what's the government's real leverage here? >> so, chris, by the way, can i just say thanks for the great

summary of where we are. and yes, the negotiation has begun. we went through a very thorough analysis of the pricing, including looking at all of the information that the drug manufacturers themselves provided to us. and we submitted to each of the nine drug manufacturers for the ten drugs that are part of the list, our pricing. and now we have up to 30 days to wait to see if they want to counter that, and we'll go through a negotiation process back and forth. august 1st is the deadline, and we'll come out with some pricing that will be public starting september 1st. i want us to put that graphic back up because as i'm looking at it, eliquis, jardiance, those are drugs i know not because i use them or have any problems but because i see the advertisements for them. do you believe that there is a direct correlation between the price that is charged and how

much advertising goes into selling a drug? >> well, there's no doubt that drug manufacturers spend millions if not billions on advertising, and does that create an incentive to buy or use? i think most people would say you don't market unless you think you're going to have some success. what we did was we took a look at all the different elements of what goes into a price, and we came out with what we believe to be a fair price for those drugs. we will now see what the drug companies have to say, but clearly no one doubts that we're paying more in america for those drugs than we should. two to three, to four times more than other people in other countries are paying right now. >> we talked earlier about britain, france, for example. some of the others are already suing. could the administration's best intentions be delayed significantly, bottom line, when

might americans feel the difference in prices? >> i believe every one of the companies that we're negotiating with have also sued us. they're not the happiest campers. the court has allowed us to move forward. at the end of the day, we feel confident we will do a good job of negotiating for better prices for those drugs. americans use those drugs, no doubt. they shouldn't be overcharged for those drugs because they are essential and no one should have to lose their peace of mind because they can't afford drugs. >> what about people who don't have medicare when this happens, assuming this happens, will they reap any benefits of lower prices? >> well, you know, president biden has already said that this negotiation that we're getting to do for the 65 million medicare beneficiaries should be available to all americans. there's no reason why america should be paying more for a drug simply because the drug

manufacturers have the leverage to price as they want. so we're going to find to make sure that not just medicare recipients but everyone in america can get fair prices for the drugs that they need. >> secretary becerra, thank you so much, we do appreciate your time. >> thank you. coming up on "chris jansing reports," what we know about a far right caravan that calls itself god's army that's heading to the southern border. stay close, more just after this. , more just after this it's your business. it's your verizon. [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine

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