and they say they won't stop until they see changes that they're calling for. >> is there any sign that those changes may be coming either from the eu or individual countries? >> yeah, you know, it's a good question. they have secured several measures so far. the eu has proposed to limit imports from ukraine. so limiting things like ukrainian sugar, poultry and eggs. the block's executive commission is proposing easing, some of the green regulations. in france, they'll put a stop to plans that will reduce subsidies on agricultural diesel. so far the programs haven't been letting up. >> that's going to do it this hour. make sure to join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday from 1:00 to 3 right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now

♪♪ good to be with you, i'm katy tur. the 118th congress is in a league of its own when it comes to legislating. i would call it little league but even toddlers get a lucky swing or two. this group of lawmakers is on track to become the most unproductive in history. in the year it has been in power, only 35 bills have been passed and signed into law. the fewest since the great depression. it's been particularly bad in the always somewhat unruly house, but the republicans with their divergent interests and painfully slim majority have been especially unproductive, and yet last night, the lawmakers in the lower chamber did something extraordinary. they passed a tax bill that benefits both families and businesses with a giant bipartisan majority. 357 to 70. more than 3/4 of the house. democrats and republicans, all of them together.

expanding the child tax credit, and restoring a set of expired tax breaks for certain corporations. and yet the senate is now saying, nar, not the whole senate. senate republicans. so why, well, don't ask me, ask senator chuck grassley. who told semifoer, passing a tax bill that makes the senate look good, means president biden could be reelected and then we won't extend the 2016 tax cuts. grassley saying out loud and in public the same thing mitch mcconnell said privately about the immigration bill inside a special closed door republican meeting last week. donald trump wants to wield chaos at the border in his campaign, he said, adding, quote, we don't want anything to undermine him. we're in a quandary. he calls it a quandary, the american public might call it a dereliction. joining us now, nbc news capitol

hill correspondent ryan nobles. is the tax bill going to go anywhere in the senate? was chuck grassley just a lone voice? >> reporter: i think ultimately this will pass. there's a mix of politics that has to do with the small margins in the house and senate. that gives individual members a lot of power when it comes to bills like this. there are senators that have issues with certain aspects of the bill. they want to have their say. whether that means it goes through the committee process, whether that means they offer up amendments on the senate floor, those things are possible. ultimately, though, i do think the votes are there for this bill to ultimately pass. it does of course require 60 votes in the senate. the open question is the path that it takes to get to the 60 votes and whether or not the senate will make tweaks to the legislation that will then require the house to vote on it again. that could complicate it. but to your point, it's so rare in this congress to see such an

overwhelming bipartisan support for any piece of legislation, much less a tax piece of legislation that i think it's going to be very difficult for the senate not to endorse this plan as well. >> we just got a little bit of news from senator schumer, majority leader, who just spoke on the senate floor. the legislative tax of the pack will be released tomorrow, no later than sunday. this will be the entire aid bill, funding for ukraine, israel, the boarder and taiwan. that's the likelihood that gets anywhere? >> reporter: this has been the elusive supplemental package that lawmakers have been hashing out for several weeks. it involves an extensive border package with a lot of different policy provisions included in that. it includes funding for ukraine, israel and the indo-pacific. this is the grand plan that the white house and congressional leaders had when they started this process. it's of course been derailed many times, but they do feel that they have reached the

finish line here. they're just putting the finishing touches on the legislation. one of the chief negotiators senate james langford told reporters he expects the text to be 200 pages and processing it in the senate perhaps as early as wednesday of next week. now, this is going to require 60 votes to pass in the senate. that's obviously not an easy task. if they do get 60 votes or more than 60 votes, the question becomes what happens in the house. speaker johnson has said that the provisions that he's seen, and he's not seen the entire bill, give him an appetite of not wanting to move the bill to the full house. if the legislation comes out, and he starts to an overwhelming number of his members say they can be supportive of it, and they want to see the border proposal in particular push through there's a chance it could get to the house floor. there's so many hurdles this legislation needs to cross between now and then before it actually becomes law.

right now, this is positive progress that they're actually going to have something that lawmaker can digest, and decide whether or not they want to support it. >> it's 33 billion to partly extend the child tax credit, which is huge for american families and lifts hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty, and 33 billion to reinstate the tax bchts for businesses. if that goes through, that would be 36 bills and if the supplemental for national security, which includes the border and ukraine, that would be 37, which would give them higher in the legislative progress in their term as the 118th congress. >> reporter: how do we keep track of it all, it's fast and furious. >> it's so hard to count. ryan nobles, thank you very much. joining us now, former democratic congressman from new york, max rose. it's good to have you. >> good to see you. >> congressman, i should say. i want to talk to you.

you've been there, you've been in the rooms. you've done the job of legislating, also trying to legislate in a divided congress. what is it like in there? bring me into the halls of congress? >> how do they get done? >> this is the hardest thing going on right now. we live in this era of constant politics. what politicians end up having to deal with is competing demands. i do believe that most members go there to at least try to serve. they all have that as some type of north star. you start to deal with the other competing pressure of what about the next election, i don't want to give them a win. we can't let them look good and it doesn't matter how good the legislation is. so there's that pressure but the best politicians and leaders overcome that pressure to deliver for the american people, and you worry about the campaigns sort themselves out, and that's why it's so disappointing what you see the leadership of house republican

caucus doing right now. >> did you feel that pressure when you were there? >> of course. >> when the election came due. you're there for two years, so you have, what, a year of legislating and then the next full year is all about campaigning again? >> it shouldn't be. you felt that pressure, i remember, in december 2019, donald trump had run on reforming free trade. and then usmca hits the floor. that's reforming nafta. this is donald trump's signature political goal, and it ended up being a good policy. the democrats fought to reform it. it passed the senate. and most of the democratic caucus voted for it. they put the american people ahead of politics. then covid hits and perhaps politically nothing is better than to watch the opposition party preside over the complete decline of the economy, the destruction of society, but the democrats once again, came together, and voted over and over for covid recovery bills.

>> are you indicating that this is a democratic and republican thing, democrats are working in the public's interest and republicans are working in self-interest. >> if it were that binary, democrats would never lose electionings. we are seeing a recent trend, particularly with this house republican caucus. it is so purely obstructionist that as someone watching from the outside now, it's really really painful to watch this extremism overtake them, even with the border bill, they said we're not going to support ukraine until we arrive at a bipartisan border consensus. the senate then actually accomplishes it, and they flip on a dime and say we're not going to do it. that kind of craven politics is new and very weird. >> we're waiting for the text of the border agreement, waiting with baited breath. we want to see what's in this, which is bipartisan, which is amazing.

you live and you ran and you served for a little while in a very red district. reddest district in new york city. pretty red for the entire country even. a lot of republicans, and even democrats, they're beholden to the extreme ends of the party, you gerrymander districts where everybody thinks the same way. somebody might come up behind you and take away your seat. when you look at the people in staten island, do you see them looking at the immigration package i want to fix the border, or do you see them saying, i want republicans to get everything they want, and if they don't, i'm going to get democrat. >> that person is so hyper engaged on social media, and they represent the extreme base that each party has, of course. i think the extreme right base

is far more dangerous. what most politicians are afraid of is any election. they really do want to coast. so even if a small subset of their own party threatens to run against them, knowing very well that they'll beat them, they really will often break down and that's the most dangerous thing. but what we're seeing right now about our politics. >> who gets blamed if this immigration bill doesn't go through when we're seeing what we're seeing at the border? >> the house republican leadership. >> they lose seats? >> put it like this, it will dramatically strengthen joe biden's reelection campaign. i listed the different ways that the democratic party partnered and said, donald trump, you put good policy on the floor, and donald trump was beaten. so i think that eventually what the american people reward is common sense. they reward putting the country

first. >> does staten island vote for a democrat for your former seat? >> that's going to be a tough one. new york state has probably got to get its policy right to get a shift there. >> former congressman max road. thanks for coming in. what union workers are telling president biden. he's talking about it. what defense secretary lloyd austin said about hiding his hospital day. first, though, the mother of a school shooter is on trial. she took the stand today. we're going to show you what she should. we are back in 60 seconds. always dry scoop before you run.

the hot dog diet got me shredded! the world is full of "health experts"... it's time we listen to science. one a day is formulated with b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. science that matters. it starts off with an e-mail from ms. mcconnell to shaen hopkins, can you please touch base with ethan crumbley, in his autobiography, he feels terrible and his family is mistake. unusual responses for sure. he writes back things for the heads up, i'm in senior meetings

throughout the day, i'll try to catch up with him. were you aware this was ever a discussion or an issue? >> no. >> were you aware that mr. hopkins ever talked to or tried to talk to your son? >> no. >> did anyone ever call you to make you aware of any of this? >> no. >> if you heard this, how would you react or what would your reaction be? >> i'd be definitely concerned. >> jennifer crumbley is trying to convince jurors she's not to blame for what her son did at a michigan high school in 2021. today on the stand she said she didn't know he would take a semiautomatic 9 millimeter to his school and kill four classmates. she didn't see any reason he needed to be in therapy. that he was joking when he said he was scared and seeing things. joining us now in pontiac,

michigan, is nbc news correspondent, adrienne broaddus. a very emotional day in court. what about the moment where she's describing what happened with the text messages, where she was telling her son it's okay to search for things like ammunition, just don't get caught. how did she explain that? >> reporter: you're talking about the text message that authorities who were called by the prosecution have described. jennifer crumbley's response when ethan crumbley was spotted in class looking up bullets and ammunition. she said, lol, you have to learn how not to get caught. she says this surrounds conversations they have had in their home, dating back to her childhood. listen to her explanation. >> he was worried about he was going to get in trouble. i said, next time don't get

caught. >> reporter: what did you mean by that? >> there's an ongoing thing in our house. somebody always asks me the trouble i would get into in high school, my friends would do the same thing, and i would always get caught. it was kind of referencing to that. >> that was her explanation and lot of foams were wondering why jennifer crumbley sent that message to her son. the defense is trying to paint a picture, a big contrast in comparison to what we saw the prosecution. they're painting the picture of who she was as a mother. we've seen images of ethan on his last day of school. we saw pictures when he first received braces. we've seen the family photographed together smiling after purchasing a christmas tree, and jennifer crumbley answered questions about

discipline and ethan's mental health. telling members of the jury her son had moments of anxiety after a big test, and was concerned about life after high school, whether or not he would have the grades to enter college or should take the route of joining the military. jennifer crumbley testified that there was nothing that ever rose to the level of her son needing to seek mental health professionals. >> let me read a portion of an op ed from the "new york times," the prosecution of the parents seems to be motivated at least partly by the grief of a local community. our politicians are ineffective. we can't agree on what's causing the bloodshed. we can't fix the interlinked failures behind the slaughter but we can see schools and parents and now we can drag the

unsympathetic crumbleys into the criminal court. a case to try, something tangible to do. maybe at least it makes us feel better. there's going to be disagreement about whether this is letting the crumbleys off the hook too much. i'm curious how the community is reacting and what they see coming out of this trial? >> reporter: this community is divided. i was here on the day of the shooting. i've spoken the parents who have followed this over the course of two years. everyone wants everyone to be held accountable. ethan serve ago lifer sentence without the possibility of parole. the prosecution is trying to prove that the crumbley's committed gross negligence, but on average in 2023 there were three mass shootings. a day.

and this is something we know, school shootings will continue to happen, people want it to stop and they want answers and accountability. >> adrienne, thank you very much. and coming up, former president trump is trying to draw a wedge between union leaders and working. is it working? what president biden is doing in michigan today, and what defense secretary lloyd austin said about an imminent u.s. retaliation for the deaths of three soldiers in jordan. (♪♪) (bridget) with thyroid eye disease i hid from the camera. and i wanted to hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d. was beyond help... but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepezza is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source not just the symptoms. in a clinical study more than 8 out of 10 patients taking tepezza had less eye bulging.

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i want to be crystal clear, we did not handle this right, and i did not handle this right. i should have cold the president about my cancer diagnosis. i should have also told my team and the american public. and i take full responsibility. i apologized to my teammates and to the american people. >> that was defense secretary lloyd austin taking questions for the first time after being hospitalized for complications

following treatment for prostate cancer. acknowledging he should have done better. it is a precarious moment for austin while he's apologizing for breaking the trust of the american public he's tasked with leading the pentagon and the american public through the u.s. response to the death of three american soldiers in a region that is already on a knife's edge. >> i don't think the adversaries have a one and done mindset, and so they have a lot of capability. i have a lot more. >> joining us now from tel aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley, good to have you. walk us through what we're waiting for and what expectations we have about the u.s. response. >> reporter: we've heard from lloyd austin, and it sound as though the u.s. is going to be balancing different things, it's a delicate process. they have to show their response

is going to be distinct from the other responses they have made in retaliation to repeated attacks by militia groups in iraq and ya, at the same time, iran and the proxies escalate and retaliate in kind without setting off some sort of massive region wide war, and katy, this is the closest this entire region has come to a single unified war ever since the 1970s. it is really a very precarious moment. what we have been hearing so far throughout these attacks is that this is going to be not just one discreet attack but it could be weeks of retaliation, like a series, like a season of retaliation. there are going to be military strikes and cyber operations. there could be multiple targets in multiple companies, and it could involve iranian targets outside iran. it sound like those haven't been finalized. what we haven't heard is a direct strike against targets in

iran. it seems as though there isn't going to be this kind of escalating retaliation to result in a region wide war, and policy makers in the pentagon don't know the extent to which iran behind that, and this is from what i'm hearing from experts, all of these proxy groups inside iran's axis of resistance, that's proxies, they don't necessarily do just iran's bidding. now, when we talk about the axis, we're talking about groups like hamas in the gaza strip, where we have been seeing this sustained attack over the past several months ever since those october 7th terror attacks. that also means palestinian islamic jihad which also operates in the gaza strip and the west bank, houthis in yemen, and these same iranian-backed shiite militias, and sometimes contains the regime in syria. these are all groups that

benefit in some way or another sometimes follow their orders. so a lot of these calculations involve a lot of unknown factors. >> joining us now, senior fellow of the carnegie endowment, kareem good to have you. can you help us understand the moment, the push and pull that the americans are facing with? >> the dilemma that the biden administration has is no one in america wants to get entangled in another war. the biden administration is trying to deescalate. we're trying to deter iran, and that hasn't been working by virtue of the fact that u.s. forces in the middle east have continued either directly or via proxy, and so if you're not able to deter iran, you're not able to deescalate and the challenge biden has in dealing with the iranian regime is they have a committed ideology, they want to

evict from the middle east, they want to replace israel with palestine. they want to bring down u.s. world order, and zero sum mentality. if they believe america is vulnerable now, or taking a step backward, they'll take a step forward. >> is there a diplomatic solution, then, given all you just laid out? >> there's not a diplomatic solution, as long as the iranian regime is in power. need to be a version of what we had in the cold war and the soviet union. you're trying to contain the maligned behavior, whether it's the regional behavior or nuclear ambitions, simultaneously there needs to be a strategy to expedite the cause of internal change inside iran, and i don't think that either party, neither republicans nor democrats have really come up with an effective strategy against iran. >> why not, because you have a vast middle class in iran who is said to not be happy with the regime. iran was a place before the revolution that was westernized,

it was open and free, women didn't have to wear scarves on than head. it got taken over by religious extremists. why is it so difficult to inspire that large middle class of people, especially after what we saw last spring and summer with the protests surrounding the woman who was killed for not wearing her scarf. >> this iranian regime is a historic aberration, it does not represent the national interests of iran or the iranian people. now, they have very limited popular support. i would say perhaps 15% of the public supports them. but they're highly armed and organized and willing to kill. there's an opposition which is at this point fragmented and they're not willing to die for their cause.

so that's something that's on the iranian opposition to start to cohere and work strategically. but i do think it should be a pillar of the u.s. strategy toward iran, just as it was during the cold war with the soviet union to support the cause of change inside iran, but i think given the past two decades of u.s. failure in iraq and afghanistan, i think we suffer from a collective lack of self-confidence that we in the united states are still capable of advancing the cause of diplomatically beyond our borders. >> hasn't worked so well region. always good to have you, thank you. >> like wise, thank you. and still ahead, what the biden administration is saying about going around israel and possibly recognizing a palestinian state. first, though, president biden takes a victory lap in michigan after winning a powerful union endorsement. but what about the workers within that union? how is he going to address them

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president biden is in michigan, trying to solidify his report of auto workers. he got the endorsement of shawn fain and today is speaking directly to uaw members. joining us from detroit, white house correspondent monica alba. this is after former president

donald trump met with teamsters to try to undermine the president's support among unions. >> reporter: exactly, katy, and we know that president biden does plan to meet with the teamsters union at some point in the future and seek their endorsement as well. this trip to detroit is trying to shore up that support. it's one thing to get the backing from the uaw leadership, which we have seen, and it's another thing to speak to the rank and file members, those thousands of uaw workers who of course were watching and with the president when he came to detroit last fall to stand with them on the picket lines and become the first president ever to do that. but also he's speaking to some members here who we had an opportunity to speak with last week, who have some questions about some of his foreign policy. there are members in the uaw who interrupted his speech last week, for instance, briefly because of the president's continued support for israel and they have questions about that, and they are calling for a full cease fire.

so it's a situation here where we have seen pockets of protesters who are clearly expressing that, and there's obviously a large arab american community here in michigan that the president, there have been questions about whether he's going to be sitting down and meeting with them. there's nothing on the schedule today, but the white house says that in the coming days and weeks, white house officials some people with the reelection campaign will be coming here for potentially round table conversations with them. but we know in the last couple of days or so that when they have attempted to have these kinds of contacts they haven't been welcomed by some of the arab american leaders here. that is the backdrop to the entirety of the president's trip here. of course he is getting that critical support from the uaw while he is talking to some other unions who have supported him in the past, and who may do so again here. we can't underscore how critical michigan, wisconsin, these battleground states that were key to the president's victory in 2020 will be again.

there are these larger issues looming that many voters that we have been talking to and our team has been in touch with here on the ground have said will be really really important to them in november. there's an abandoned biden movement in the detroit area that will be present today outside of where he's going to be meeting with those union workers. >> monica alba, thank you: joining us, national affairs correspondent john nichols, our man and all things union, good to have you here. donald trump is trying to drive a wedge between the union leadership and workers, how successful can he be? >> not very successful. or not very much more successful than he's been in the past. at the end of the day, the unions are in most cases, headed by some pretty dynamic leadership, the unions that are going to be many play here, and that leadership, i think, is much more conscious of how to communicate with workers than sometimes in the past. if biden gets the endorsements,

i think that he is likely to have, you know a benefit there. but remember, trump has always had some traction with blue collar workers, and so it's very interesting where biden is going today. biden is going to michigan, an area where you see so called reagan democrats in the past, and these are exactly the voters that biden's got to get to, and they'll meet with rank and file members in a union hall. that's important. and those meetings, those kinds of meetings are vital. what the union gives endorsed candidate is not a guarantee of support but an opportunity to make those connections. in much more human ways, direct ways, and that's where the real benefit comes, especially in a state like michigan. >> what about the forces outside of the union, the cost of groceries, et cetera, inflation,

the economy and the feeling that maybe their paycheck, even though it's going up isn't in line with the cost of living that, you know, eggs are still a dollar, $2 more than they were two years ago. how much is that going to factor in and be less of an issue that maybe the union recommendation? or more of an issue. >> it does factor in. remember, union members are, you know, americans like everybody else, right, they have their concerns based on a union contract, and based on, you know, their workplace and that, but they also have their day-to-day concerns of their lives. for biden, the critical thing is to make sure that his message is in line with the union, right, that he speaks about the endorsement he's received, that he's got that connection, but also he speaks more clearly and broadly to the working class in general. remember, most working class people in america are not members of the unions. unions are growing fast, signing up a lot of people, but the bottom line is that if you're going to win, even if a state like michigan, that uaw

endorsement matters a lot, but so too does your message to working class voters. >> you're talking about how the leaders of these unions are more dynamic. why is shawn fain different. what's he doing that's different than the rest? >> well, shawn fain is somebody who uses the media a lot. remember, and you know this, katy, there's many union leaders you've never seen on television. shawn fain you see a lot. he also uses social media a lot. he has assembled a young staff that is very very committed to kind of getting the message out, so when you get a uaw endorsement now, it isn't just an endorsement on paper, it actually involves a lot of internal organizing and a lot of communications, that matters. the other thing that matters is shawn fain has become something more than just a uaw president. he is a very prominent national personality. people are starting to know his name as representative of unions and many ways, a spokesperson for the working class people. that gives him an ability to

communicate not just that the uaw has endorsed biden but why the uaw has endorsed biden and it's the deeper discussions that are particularly beneficial to biden in this case. >> john nichols, good to have you. coming up, georgia could kick out dominion voting systems, what they could be replaced with. israel won't accept a two-state solution. what happens if the u.s. and uk defy its ally and a palestinian state anyway. subway series sub today. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere.

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first, the uk's foreign secretary said it out loud, and now american officials are saying it in private, maybe it's time to go around israel and formally recognize a palestinian state at the u.n. nbc news has confirmed conversations first report bid "axios" that the biden administration is exploring the move as a way to push a more lasting peace when the war in gaza ends. joining us now, former prime minister of israel, ehud barack. i want to clarify something david cameron said in talking about the idea of recognizing a palestinian state at the u.n., he said there would be no recognition of such a state while hamas remains in gaza, but it has to be the long-term goal. what is your reaction to the u.s. and the uk even considering

this? >> i would prefer to see an israeli government that sees eye to eye with the biden administration, as with cameron, but unfortunately we don't have such a government. tom friedman describing the contours of a biden doctrine, which resonates with the proposals of cameron. i think it's an extremely positive plan. i would recommend to israeli opposition, leadership, all those who oppose netanyahu and his policies to unite behind it and to give it consideration. i would recommend to them to use the opportunity of a pause in the fighting that might take out of the deal to release the hostages, to establish the earliest possible date for israeli election. we are just after the most severe blunder in the history of

the country. believe that netanyahu's responsibility and i think that's a time to choose our way and i would prefer the biden plan over anything that is proposed by netanyahu and the racist members of his government. >> it's a big if whether netanyahu will just resign. i think it would have to probably come after an outcry of force from the israeli public to get him to do so. i mean, he doesn't look like he wants to go anywhere, especially considering he's got those criminal cases in front of him. if there were a candidate on the ballot for the israeli public that did support a two-state solution, do you think that the israeli public would support that person? >> i think it won't be easy under the impact which is still fresh, the collective psyche of

the nation, a certain feeling of terrible disaster and humiliation and the need to revenge and so on. but i'm confident that if determined leadership would stand and say, we either cannot hope for better proposal than this biden doctrine as tom friedman described it, and just a year ago we would be happy to see the whole deal, both countries facing iran, and the axis of woke states joining the peace to the only viable long-term position, which is two-state solution. the other position is a tragedy. >> one of the points made by axios, this was considered by their reporting by the u.s. officials, was that the saudis in order to normalize need there

to be a palestinian state or irrevocable path toward a pal still yan state. the u.s. state department has sanctioned a number of israeli settlers in the west bank for they say committing violence against the west bank. >> i don't like the situation that led them to announce this. but most of the israel settlements are normal citizens, but there are extremists who behave in other ways against palestinians. i don't like the situation that we were in, but i can understand why normal people in democracy see those individuals should be pointed to and identified by

without generalizing the corporation and probably it's painful, but understandable treatment. >> so president biden has had an executive order to sanction these people. you have the leaking of the conversations about recognizing a palestinian state. what does it say about what president biden is trying to say publicly to benjamin netanyahu? >> i think that president biden is the most supportive president israel ever had in the white house. it can no be the devotion, the commitment that they took upon themselves in spite of the cultural that they see from benjamin netanyahu and have seen in the past, even as a vice president. i think that independent of what biden thinks about them, the public should remove benjamin netanyahu. and i think that it's very important that biden describes

or will describe in the near future a clear vision which america is ready to bake. israel has to make an end to the reigning of hamas and the capabilities in gaza. we have been there for decades and left for good reasons. so we have to find certain body with international to whom we can hand over the gaza strip once we get rid of hamas. and this should be be an actual candidate so it should be revived and get clean out of certain elements of behavior which are unacceptable. it should be shaped in a way that would answer the legitimate security considerations of

israel, but there is no other legitimate power. they should be helping by sources, but backed by arab league and the united states and the uk. i think that's the only viable long-term position. you cannot pledge to it should be palestinians. >> prime minister, thank you very much for coming on. we do appreciate all your insight. coming up next, one democrat called it a recipe for unrest and political violence. what's that democrat talking about? here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent

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a six-yearlong legal fight over georgia's voting machines is wrapping up right now in atlanta. that issue whether dmin yan should be replaced with happened

ballots. and if so, can they get it done in time for the november election? joining us from atlanta is nbc news reporter jayne. they have won a bunch of lawsuits for defamation. there's never been any wrong doing proven by dominion, and yet there's a lawsuit against it in georgia. what's going on? >> this case isn't even alleged. the fraud a has occurred. this is about the option and vulnerabilities and fraud could occur. you have good government groups who are suing the state saying the machines are so vulnerable, so ripe for hacking it violates voters' constitutional rights to have their ballots counted. they say that it's really easy to hack the machines. they brought in cybersecurity experts, including one person who hacked a voting machine in open court using a big pen that he borrowed from a defense

attorney. but the state says that in the real world, in an actual polling site with the voting machines, they just aren't feasible. there are poll workers, election workers that all of these things make these sort of hypotheticals just speculation. it's the idea of fraud. the plaintiffs can't kwaund if i the risk. nothing is without risk. this is about managing risk. but either way, however this judge rules, it could well cast doubt on the integrity of georgia's elections or add new policies in an election year, which always scrambles things. >> whether they can get those ballots ready to go, it does take a lot of effort to get that done. thank you very much. that is going to do it for me today. kind of. if you were up this evening ral late, you can catch me with seth meyers. larry david is before me. it starts at 12:35 a.m. "deadline: white house" star