serious thing. they think they have a chance of flipping north carolina. arizona looks really rough. mark zandy, moody's projection, has it looking bad that he forecasts. right now, it is looking to be, of course, a tight election, potentially concentrated in those states. >> nevada maybe. >> as well, nevada with another senate rate. a lot of this might come down to what the democratic incumbents in the senate races can do for joe biden, how big their coattails are in the races. small map in some ways. >> a lot can happen between now and november. we know it'll be very, very close. white house reporter for bloomberg news, josh wingrove, thank you, my friend. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning and all week long.

"morning joe" starts right now. all of a sudden, i aced the cognitive test doesn't knee what's going on. >> do you plan to use pac money to pay some of the penalties in the new york defamation and fraud cases? >> i don't understand. what? >> are you thinking of potentially trying to use campaign money to pay some of those penalties that you might incur -- >> what penalties? >> in the new york fraud case, the defamation case. >> i didn't do anything wrong. i mean, that's been proven as far as i'm concerned. >> yeah, but as far as the court is concerned, you did do something wrong and it'll cost you around $83 million. i see what he's doing, though. i know exactly what he is up to. he's like the mob boss who pretended to be crazy by wandering around the town in a bathrobe. he is vinny the chin, is who he is. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is -- i'm sorry. are we not coming in? q's is the best music guy anywhere, right? >> by far. >> i know where you're going.

>> what's today? >> there it is. >> okay. >> there it is. >> there we go. >> there it is. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, february the 2nd. groundhog day. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> there it is. >> anybody ever been up there? >> i've been to see the former mayor drop the groundhog in new york. >> did you see -- >> i filmed that. >> did you -- >> bit by the groundhog. he was told not to stick his finger in the box, and he did. >> i can stick my finger in the box, yeah. >> and de blasio dropped it. >> permanent residence in the location. >> the killing of the groundhog. he killed him. >> he killed him dead. >> look at the thing on de blasio's hand. >> dropping a groundhog kills it? are the organs that delicate? >> you drop it on the head, yeah. >> you know. >> internal injuries. >> delicate. >> so sad.

>> did you see the oven mitt? >> yeah. >> it was up to his shoulder. >> he didn't want to get bit. >> new coverup afterward i had to report on. the usda cited the staten island zoo for allowing an untrained handler to handle the groundhog. >> so -- >> next year, he was in a pope mobile. he couldn't be touched. it was a whole scandal. >> the killing of a groundhog. >> great reporting, by the way. >> yeah. >> why didn't i read that anywhere? i don't think i read that in real time. >> you don't read "the new york times"? i don't know. >> it was "the wall street journal." >> because you don't read "the wall street journal." >> it's behind the pay wall. >> wow, subscribe. >> there's the killing of the groundhog. by the way, mika isn't here today. >> oh, really? i barely noticed. >> about to go wild here. the killing of a groundhog by a mayor, and the assault of elmo by a comedy legend. >> i can't even. >> we're going to talk to him

today about it. we have to ask him the questions nobody else ever ask. >> we have the exclusive follow-up interview with larry david, joined by sie essman. >> he assaulted elmo on the "today" show. >> no muppets are safe. >> elmo did nothing to deserve that. >> that's the -- >> elmo is innocent until proven guilty of all things. >> larry was upset. >> he's been getting in other people's business. asking, "how are you doing?" >> how dare he. >> anyway -- >> larry will be here with his attorney to talk through this. >> he'd better. >> larry wants to go out on a string of murders, assaults. >> stop it. >> on muppets. >> out the door. that's how you bring the whole thing to a close, joe. keep it in mind for when you're getting ready to go. >> okay. >> wow. >> i hadn't really thought about that. >> just saying for way down the line, 60, 70 years from now.

>> all right. >> willie, you know how i'm going to go. just like i did in congress. on friday, i say, "see you on monday," and i never came back. thank you so much for watching us this week. i will see you on monday. that'll be it. >> by wednesday, people go, is joe -- where'd joe go? >> he's on vacation. >> right. >> two months in, that's the longest vacation i've ever seen. >> if you've learned nothing else from the years of mike barnicle, it's the irish good-bye. that's how you do it. that's how you do it. mike says, i'll be back with the coffee in five minutes, and then you see him three months later. >> where are you, mike? >> laguardia. >> i'm at fenway. >> he's always at laguardia. >> all right. i guess we need to go -- >> start with the knicks since heilemann is here? >> yeah. >> the knicks won nine games in a row. >> no way! >> great comeback win against the pacers. jalen brunson an all-star for the first time.

julius randle. >> deservingly. >> the garden is electric because of this team. they're within a half game, john heilemann, of the bucks and celtics in the east. this is a fun team at the garden. >> who is going to the lakers game tomorrow? >> you going? >> yes, i am. >> lebron comes to the garden. >> it'll be great. saturday night game at madison square game. >> 8:30. >> 8:30 on a saturday night. >> of course, heilemann is going to be there. he's always -- you know, you're always where you're supposed to be, and when you're not, you're with -- anyway. >> that's correct. >> part of the -- >> after the playoff run last season, i think people thought, this knicks team could be for real. so far this season, they've been for real. >> jalen brunson has been a revelation. he was good in dallas, sort of a role player with luca. he is a superstar and great guy, too. >> they'll crush our hopes and dreams because that's the nature of being a knicks fan. for now, we're having a good

time. >> can't believe we talked about the knicks around here. >> nine in a row. >> they earned it. >> i'm a man of the people, right? people go, joe, joe, you know, he's one of us. he walks with us. he talks with us. i had no idea until yesterday, because nobody was talking about this friday game, the cheapest ticket available for a knicks game is $750. >> available. >> wow. >> face value. the place is sold out. >> really? >> that's not the cheapest face value ticket, but the place is sold out. if you're trying to get a ticket to the lakers game tomorrow night -- >> forget it. >> -- you're paying more than $700. >> guys like me, you know, have to watch on cable. >> i know all the ways to sneak in. >> really? >> i can get you in the back. >> same way they used to get keith richards out after their shows at the garden. >> exactly right. >> elude the police. >> let's say, there are tunnels. >> yeah. >> mara, you went to michigan, right? >> i sure did.

go blue. >> we have not seen each other since the mighty crimson tide were humbled by -- >> very sweet. i mean, there are so many michigan alumni in new york, and we're so obnoxious. we're high fiving each other in the street. >> you really are. >> we're insufferable and unrepentant. >> nothing like the subtlety of an alabama fan. >> i was going to say. >> i will say, you know, i was -- my boys were there, and we were watching. i know they were -- you know, we were surrounded by michigan fans. i was so angry. i was so baffled that we lost. but i was a politician. i was going, oh, no, no, you deserve it. oh, no. but, yeah, they were crazy. >> yeah. >> i was surprised by how they were. when i turned around, there was an older guy crying. i was like, okay.

>> a michigan fan or alabama fan? >> michigan fan. >> okay. >> tears of joy. >> okay. >> this happens, you know -- >> it's been a long time. >> -- once in a generation. >> we have to savor it. >> yeah. >> you guys lose it, eh, all right, next year. we'll win next year. >> i mean, the lions had a great season, too. >> oh, my god. >> yes, what a great year for michigan sports. the lions, no one will look back on this year, despite the fact they were close to the super bowl, incredible year for the lions. michigan sports fans are riding high. >> the lions are -- and i haven't seen any nfl team where the whole country just kind of came together, but they were for 3 1/2 quarters, they were america's team. >> yeah. >> people were so excited to see them, and then the san francisco 49ers -- >> yeah. >> doesn't san francisco have enough? >> right, it's hard to roof for. >> detroit needed that. >> who are you going to be rooting for in the game in the end?

chiefs/49ers super bowl. apologies to claire mccaskill and taylor swift, but really? who am i going to root for there? >> it's kind of exxon against bp. >> yeah, great. >> i like watching greatness. i'll put it that way. people are like, i don't like tiger woods. i like watching tiger woods on sunday. i like watching patrick mahomes in the super bowl. >> sure. >> i don't care, but i'll go for the chiefs. >> san francisco. >> there's always a team in the super bowl i hate, but there is not here. i've always kind of liked the chiefs. >> they're both fine. >> we've talked about dawson on the sideline smoking a cigarette. those were the days. >> i'll be watching taylor swift. >> sure. >> there's that. >> a swifter. >> i will say, i was rooting for the chiefs to at least make the playoffs because things were looking bad. >> yeah. >> it did look like there was a taylor swift hex there. kelce dropping balls, things weren't going right, and i was like, come on. i don't want this story line.

they've gotten in. >> that was before the deep state kicked in. >> exactly. >> working overtime on kelce's behalf. >> they're good, the deep state. >> cia, nsa. >> i will say, though, i love the players on both teams. >> brock purdy, as alex reminded us, great story. >> mccaffrey, what an incredible player. that guy is unbelievable. deebo, holy cow. they're so fun to watch because they're such great players. kittle, all of them. the chiefs are, well, the chiefs. but if mahomes does win another super bowl, you've got to put him up there with -- not ahead or even with montana and brady but -- >> the next tier and still young, has time. >> i know who the star of the super bowl will be for you, the venue. it's in vegas, your favorite town. >> oh. >> is vegas your favorite town? >> not really. >> used to be. >> i was a younger man then.

>> you know -- >> decisions. >> when i go to vegas, i fly, i land, i get in the car, i go to where i'm supposed to go. yes, i'm going to stay all weekend. i'll be right back. i get in the car, i go back to the plane, and i fly out. >> 24-hour town. >> it's not how willie and i used to do it. >> that was a long time ago. >> long time. >> with that -- >> hold on. the pause has to be pregnant enough, are they ever going to get in the news? let's be quiet a minute. >> we're only 11 minutes in, going on 12. >> hold for edit. >> you want to go to the news? >> that's coming out. >> i'll hear from mika. >> we've been live this whole time? >> it's live. we can -- >> fix it in post, yeah. >> it's the magic of television. >> should we start? let's start the show. >> let's go. hey, it's groundhog day. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday. >> hold on.

let's start it again. you guys have the groundhog day music? >> who is that guy? >> welcome to "morning joe." it's february the 2nd. whatever year we're you are looking at groundhog day. you're looking somewhere in central pennsylvania where i'm not. here's willie geist. he has the news. now, what is it? i still don't get it. so the thing that de blasio killed. >> a groundhog. >> yeah, that. >> charlotte. >> charlotte. >> charlotte was her name. it was a girl. >> deep reporting on that. >> he killed a lady groundhog? >> he did. >> oh, man. >> actually, punxsutawney phil's handler i spoke to afterward, and they said they'd never have allowed this to happen in punxsutawney. it's a long way too fall there, yup. >> ready. >> oh! >> death of the groundhog.

>> and he's smiling afterwards. he has no idea. >> well, he didn't know he killed charlotte. >> yeah. >> it just happened. >> charlotte -- >> by the way, there is a great podcast, murder mystery podcast about the killing of charlotte. check it out on apple or spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. >> i think that's technically manslaughter. there's no intent there, right, or premedication? >> it's not that much of a mystery about who did it. >> let's get to the news. >> somebody greased his gloves. that's where the mystery comes in. who wanted to kill charlotte? let's get to the news. thanks to our friend, jonathan lemire, and his colleagues at "politico," we're learning more about what president biden has to say and thinks about joe biden in private. john, you and your colleagues have new reporting on the language president biden uses behind closed doors when talking about the former president, something -- >> we need to make john actually say the words. >> yeah. >> yes! >> we almost did at the campaign stop a couple of -- he said he's

a sick -- we stopped himself. >> get the delay ready. >> he almost let it slip out last month while marking the third anniversary of the attack on january 6th. >> trump and his maga supporters not only embrace political violence but they laugh about it. at his rally, he jokes about an intruder, whipped up by the big trump lie, taking a hammer to paul pelosi's skull. echoing the very same words used on january 6th, where's nancy? he thinks that's funny. he laughed about it. what a sick -- my god. [ applause ] i think it's despicable, seriously. >> he was right on the cusp right there. >> yeah. >> in private, biden, according to john and his colleagues, doesn't stop there. the president described trump to long-time friends and close aides as a sick, insert

expletive, who delights in other's misfortunes. that's according to those who heard the president use the -- >> i'm glad they gave the f before the asterisks because i was thinking sick funny. >> he used expletives when referring to trump. he refused to visit a cemetery in the rain, and after stories he's mocked the sacrifices of fallen american soldiers. we heard some of the anger in the speech last weekend in south carolina. >> donald trump, when he was commander in chief, refused to visit a cemetery, u.s. cemetery outside of paris for fallen american soldiers. he referred to those heros, and i quote, as suckers and losers. he actually said that! he said that! how dare he say that! how dare he talk about my son like that. i call them patriots and heros.

the only loser i see is donald trump. [ applause ] >> you know, john, a lot of people -- first of all, we'll have you talk about your reporting, but i think why it is so important is because people are always asking, why is biden running? why is biden running? i don't understand. he should quit. he's running, in part, for the same reason he ran the first time. that was because of charlottesville. he's running this time because he thinks donald trump is a sick fella and thinks that he is bad for america, thinks he is terrible for america, and just bluntly, he doesn't think anybody in the democratic party can beat him but him. >> that's precisely right. he believes donald trump is a danger to democracy. he believes his behavior is despicable and un-american. it's a personal affront to what joe biden believes this country should be about. in my reporting, we learned there were a few things in

particular that really set him off behind closed doors and lead to those profane outbursts. you mentioned charlottesville when donald trump defended people on both sides of that racist riot. that is what led joe biden to run in 2020. the reports that donald trump confirmed by the january 6th committee, donald trump sat and watched the insurrection from the private dining room off the oval office, cheering them on, rewinding the most violent parts. words for vladimir putin, which biden believes is unpatriotic. then the two examples there, the mockery of fallen soldiers, which for biden is personal because his son died of cancer soon after returning from iraq, and the scene trump laughs and makes fun of and floats conspiracy theories about the attack on paul pelosi. this is something the president feels behind closed doors, and it is fueling this run. this is why he's told close aides he feels like he is the one man to beat trump. he's done it before and can do

it again. it is deeply personal. as a final note, the white house officially declined to comment on this story. they didn't dispute it, but others in the biden camp were very pleased to hear this come out because they say, look, the president is simply saying what a lot of americans think. >> this is a good story because it's just an obvious story. you look at good stories within washington are what people are talking about but hasn't really broken out. of course, biden is calling trump a sick -- because he is. who has not, basically, by this point called donald trump that? it's pretty obvious and pretty unsurprising. >> i think it is relatable. >> yeah. >> i mean, biden is running for president. i think he wants to be as relatable as possible, and there are a lot of americans out there who probably see this as pretty cathartic. >> i think this may be, may be

one reason why the white house probably should let him out more. there's been concerns that he's not getting out, not doing enough stuff, not answering enough questions. if he makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. you know, andy told barnicle one time that the thing people didn't get about bush was, when he bumbled around and wasn't perfect, wasn't ronald reagan -- i'm talking about 43 -- andy card said it made him more relatable. he wasn't speaking in flowery language. people felt like, okay, he's one of us. that's biden. let fox news make fun of him because he has the same stutter he's had since 14 years old, but show flashes of anger. that happened in, by the way, 2020. he went after a guy in iowa, almost called him a fat something. he cut himself off. again, it showed a human side of

him. >> i was talking yesterday to someone who studies disinformation, misinformation, and kind of how people's perceptions get set. they were talking about how -- that people think about when there is a piece of information that's put out that's false, the instinct of politicians and communications offices is to go and dispute the fact, you know, fact-check it, right? in fact, the way it works in the world, what's better is give people something else to think about. implicitly, it disproves the first thing. this person said when people talk about biden's age, nothing does more to refute the notion that biden is too old or not up for the job than when he is behind the wheel of a car with the aviators looking good. you don't say, he's not old. he's fine. you show it, right? >> right. >> this is what you're talking about, joe. you get him out there, showing the anger, the passion. you know, you don't argue about, is he too old or does he have it? you show he still has it, especially in a relatable way, that he's pissed off about the

things a lot of people are pissed off about. at that point, if he stumbles a little bit, people forgive the stumble when they see the passion. >> right. >> they hear words that sound normal, american, human to them, and everybody out there, we're -- on cable news, we're children about profanity. in real life, nobody -- we hear profanity every day, and no one cares. we just say these words. fine, it's good for him. >> i didn't realize we were children about that. >> i meant, you know, in the industry's thing of, we can't say these words. >> i think that's probably good to not say those words. >> there are a lot of children watching. >> i don't think many people are offended by these words anymore. >> that's why i don't -- well, i still don't say them. >> i know you don't. you're pure of heart. i want to ask lemire this question, for those of us who are students of profanity, lemire, do you know, like, on the kind of scale of the seven, sometimes ten words you can't

say on television, how many of those joe biden likes to use when applied to donald trump? i want to know how deep the reporting goes. >> we showed on the screen examples that we citd for the story, but it's a well-known secret, if you will, here in washington that president biden is pretty salty behind closed doors. he does have a quick temper. he's first to admit that. he's pretty profane at times when he's fired up about something. certainly, he is about donald trump. that's what people over and over told me. of course, biden was horrified by trump's actions during the 2016 campaign and during his presidency, but in his post presidency, even more so. the way trump has treated these criminal trials. what we have heard from him about e. jean carroll, everything connected to the insurrection, the warm words for putin after the invasion. you know, praising he has

hezbollah. i'm holding the loathing of the person of the donald trump, not the politician, but the person of donald trump has only grown. >> when stories like this come out and biden goes out and shows the anger, which i think most people will see as appropriate, righteous anger over, for instance, him saying that people that die in war, war heros are suckers, that also not only puts that story out there, but you go behind the anger. why is he really angry? in this case you see, and we showed it on the screen. it gets back to the discussion. general kelly was the one that confirmed when he was donald trump's chief of staff, you know, kelly confirmed that he called the war dead suckers and kept asking, why would somebody do that? why would somebody go to war? what's in it for them? talking to a man whose own son had been killed in a war. >> yeah. >> just the cruelty, the hatefulness, the cluelessness.

>> the president has the added layer, as he said in the sound bite, my son served. talking about my son, the sons and daughters of many, many americans. it also underlines, you know, republicans are trying to say -- i keep thinking about when senator mike lee came out and endorsed donald trump. he said, "i can live with the mean tweets," as if it is just mean tweets. >> right. >> moments like this remind people, no, he actually disparages people who serve in the united states military. it just puts back out there actually that it is much more than tweets. it's about the character of the man. >> yeah, a guy who says it's -- i can deal with the mean tweets, at the same time, a judge accuses him of rape. >> yup. >> he's paying close to $100 million for defaming a woman that the judge said he raped, that the jury said he sexually abused. yeah, mike lee, it's not about the tweets. how stupid do these people think

we are? i don't think mike went to an ivy league school. >> i don't know where he went to school. >> can we see the banner again of -- >> oh, no. >> -- these guys that went to ivy league schools that are just total idiots? do we have that on hand? or the baseball cards. look at this. i love this. tell me, stanford and yale, how are you feeling this morning about senator josh hawley going there? i mean, every one of these people. and look at them. they're genuinely bad actors. they're bad for america. with their faux poll populism a fawning over donald trump. >> what is that? >> oxford. >> oh, oxford. >> yeah. >> i wonder if they teach civics in the ivy league. >> i guess they don't anymore. >> i don't know. >> you and me, we're statesman. >> that's right.

>> come on. >> man and woman of the people. no, he went to oxford. >> oxford is pretty fancy. it's not the ivy league, but it's fancy. >> he talks like this now, whatever. >> cruz is the worst though. cruz is the worst. harvard and princeton both, dear god. >> that is a combo. >> mark of the devil. >> i mean, seriously. john kennedy. anytime you have john kennedy's clip from, what was it, 2004, i am a democrat. therefore, i shall vote for senator john kerry. having it with his gray -- like, how do you do that? just all the phony accents. >> it's ted cruz wearing the cowboy boots with the suit, you know? he's a real texas cowboy in every day possible. >> let's soldier on.

let's get some real news going. still ahead on "morning joe," a live report from tel-aviv following president biden's new executive order sanctioning israeli settlers in the west bank. we'll explain that. plus, defense secretary lloyd austin explains why he kept his cancer diagnosis secret. we'll play his new comments, including an apology. later this morning, as we mentioned, we'll be joined by larry david and susie essman ahead of the final season of "curb your enthusiasm." we cannot wait. >> parents, hide your puppets. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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battleground michigan last night where the israel-hamas war is changing the political landscape. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez reports. >> reporter: just days after clinching a coveted endorsement from the united auto workers, president biden back in michigan as the battle for this crucial swing state intensifies. >> we now have, in large part because of you and organized labor, the strongest economy in the whole damn world. >> reporter: carpentry union worker tracy longenbarger credits biden for bringing infrastructure jobs here. >> he kept us working and is labor friendly, and that's all i can ask for. >> reporter: warning signs for the biden campaign, including this poll showing a potential head-to-head matchup here with gop frontrunner donald trump. scott has been an auto worker more than 20 years. >> i support trump because i truly believe he does want what's best for the american worker. >> reporter: the former president is trying to peel off

more of those blue collar voters, meeting with teamsters leadership. >> over the years, i've employed thousands and thousands of teamsters, and they've done a great job. >> reporter: another challenge for president biden, cratering support from the arab-american population, demanding a cease-fire in gaza. >> i think he is funding a genocide. >> reporter: the president said he understood that pain and passion, but that's not enough for rory in the detroit suburbs. how disappointed are you with the biden administration? >> i am heartbroken. i am so hurt that it is a feeling of betrayal. >> reporter: she voted for mr. biden in 2020 but now -- >> there is a widespread, underground campaign of arabs, of muslims, where we cannot morally support president biden. >> reporter: so if not president biden, would you vote for former president trump? >> no. >> reporter: who would you vote for? >> i would write in on the ballot "cease-fire, free

palestine." >> reporter: even though that could potentially give the election to former president trump. >> if things don't change, then i have no choice. >> mara, that's the key. >> right. >> we were talking about how this is -- you said this is the issue that's going to matter the most in michigan for biden if he can win it. what she said at the end, "if things don't change." >> right. >> you see yesterday the administration sanctioning radical settlers in the west bank. couple days ago, tony blinken talking about a palestinian state. the united states just may unilaterally recognize a palestinian state, which would be historic. but those are some of the things, aren't they, that biden will have to do between now and the election. >> absolutely. not only is there a large number of arab voters in michigan, but there are a lot of democratic voters in michigan who are

sympathetic to palestinians. >> right. >> they're seeing what's going on, and they're very angry about it. you have young voters in michigan who are extremely important because college voters, you know, also helped put biden over the edge last time. there's a lot of anger on college campuses, as well. black voters are also very sympathetic to palestinians. this isn't about being anti-israel. people want to hear. people in michigan, and my family is from michigan. i spent quite a bit of time there, actually, over the holiday. people want to see the administration do more to prevent children from dying in gaza. okay, that's true all over the world. people also want to hear more sympathy and more equinamity for palestinians. you hear it over and over, and it's about empathy. it's about respect.

people understand that joe biden is in a difficult position. you know, you don't hear on the ground in michigan a lot, you know, "oh, forget about israel. they don't have a right to defend themselves." no, people want to hear human rights for palestinians matter, too. >> right. >> so i think that this was maybe one step, but, you know, yesterday when biden was in michigan, you know, we didn't know for a long time where that event was going to be. we think now it was part of an attempt to avoid protests outside of those events, those campaign events. there have been protesters following biden campaign events. this is an ongoing problem, and it's becoming an increasing one within the democratic base. it's not just arab voters. it plays an outsized role in michigan. >> right. i think a lot of people have been caught by surprise, a lot of democrats at least have been caught by surprise, that there is such a divide on this issue,

and there is. i'm not surprised because, you know, i saw it in congress years and years and years ago, that there were democrats who were solidly pro israel and believed israel could do no wrong, and then there were half of the democrats who were pro palestinian, not anti-israeli, but pro palestinian. you're seeing this play out with young voters especially, obviously with arab-americans in michigan, and also just with the democratic base, whether it is black democrats, hispanic democrats, white democrats, woke white far-left democrats. there's just a whole collection of democrats, and it's about -- it's always seemed to me to be about 50/50. that's something biden has to reconcile. and i think the key word here is balance. there's going to have to be a sort of a sense of balance toward the suffering of

palestinians and the israelis for so many of these voters. >> well, exactly. the laws of military proportionality, that's kind of what we're looking at. the big question i think both sides can ask. the voters you're talking about, though, specifically progressives, the young people who are upset -- >> young voters. >> -- how do you thread the needle to placate that side and also still get the 5% to 6% of independents who skew more conservative and voted for biden that he has to have if he is going to win in michigan, in wisconsin, in arizona? that's the question. you look at how the coverage of this has only been worse lately as i feel like more connectivity and people getting out of these, you know, zones. >> right. >> you look at how horrible. i would encourage everyone to read in "the new yorker," dr.

seema gilana, irc, went over, a pediatrician. she gives a searing interview about what's happened with children. we have to do better. the world has to do better getting supplies to those children there. >> i mean, i was in georgia talking to voters last month. when i was talking to black voters, the thing i kept hearing was, "i'm struggling here. how can we afford to send bombs that are killing children?" now, it's a complicated geopolitical situation, but that is what i'm hearing from voters. there's a disconnect, as well, about where america's energy is being placed, and making sure we support human rights for all. this is not an anti-israeli position. i wasn't hearing anti-semitism. i was hearing, how can we get involved in another war in the middle east in which we're supporting -- >> yemen, too. >> right. people are very angry. >> willie, the white house is

going to pick the time they're going to do this, but biden, the administration, has wanted to distance themselves aggressively, not just subtly, from netanyahu, move beyond him. david ignatius has a column talking about, that they're going to give netanyahu an offer he can't refuse, but he is going to have to refuse, which is help from the saudis and other countries in rebuilding gaza, and the recognition of a two-state solution. i think it is past time. israelis are sick of netanyahu. i mean, netanyahu's responsible for so many of the security lapses. he knew a year beforehand of this. they had the war plans. he knew in 2018, along with trump, where hamas was getting their funding, and he did nothing to stop the funding. he told qatar a month before,

his team told qatar, "continue funding hamas," in september, in september. i mean, this is a guy, it's not worth it. they're not listening to us. they continue -- they've continued indiscriminate bombing over the past several weeks. it's time. it's time for him to, you know, support israel, but distance -- we have to distance ourself from netanyahu. >> it's not an accident that we hear through the media that president biden is tougher on bibi netanyahu. obviously, in the direct aftermath of october 7th, shoulder to shoulder. there was no distance between them. we've heard in the recent months that have followed that he's putting more pressure to change the way they're prosecuting the war. remember, he used the term indiscriminate bombing, which netanyahu took offense to. also, this morning, israel's political leadership is waiting to see how hamas will react to the hostage relief deal hammered out in paris. a spokesperson for qatar's foreign ministry said yesterday

hamas has given initial positive confirmation to the proposal for a cease-fire and the release of hostages, but the group swiftly denied doing so. joining us from tel-aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. matt, good morning. >> reporter: hey, good morning. yeah, we are seeing positive signs from that hostage deal, but we have to remember that it's not just hamas that's considering this. there's also the prime minister, the cabinet. they have to approve it, they really have not yet. what i've been hearing from the prime minister's office is that this is still under deliberation. there are far-right elements in this cabinet, and this is the most right-wing cabinet, arguably, in israeli history, who disapprove of this. we've also heard from benjamin netanyahu himself. he said recently, more than once, that he's not going to free thousands of palestinians. he's not going to withdraw the army from the gaza strip. these are two terms that hamas might disagree with, and it sounds like hamas is kind of changing its tune over the past couple of weeks. but this is still something that, you know, when we hear

from the israelis, they're not necessarily saying this is an imminent deal, even if we are seeing some more positive signals from hamas. that having been said, this could change at any time. guys? >> arab lessons at the state department back in the day. >> okay. thank you so much. >> matt bradley, thank you very much. obviously, jonathan lemire, is lemire still here? >> i am. >> there he is. john, go back to what we were talking about a minute ago, the relationship between bibi netanyahu and the pressure that president biden may be putting on him privately. as i said, we see it out in media reports, as well, that the white house is sort of keen for the world to know that he is breaking with netanyahu at certain points during this war. >> let's look here. there is a difference between the two men knowing each other for a long time, which they have, and being friends for a long time, which they are not. there's been sources of tension between biden and netanyahu for decades, dating back to president biden's time in the

senate and, as barack obama's vice president. let's recall, it was a few months ago before the war, where president biden was sharply critical of bibi's plans to reshape israel. he called it undemocratic. there's a lot of tension there and, of course, only increased with netanyahu's stubborn refusal to support the two-state system there. >> john, what's the timing? again, we hear that the president is ready to publicly break with netanyahu. a lot of people may think cynically it has to do with michigan. it doesn't have to do with michigan. that's just like, you know, he did what he did in afghanistan because of what he saw in afghanistan going back to 2009 and the corruption there. with netanyahu, he's always seen netanyahu as an obstacle to a two-state solution. he's seen with anger and disgust

what's happened in the west bank, with radical settlers ripping palestinians out of their homes and committing acts of violence in the west bank. this isn't something that, you know, has just happened. i am wondering, what's going to be the trigger for him to finally have enough and publicly break from netanyahu? >> a step in the process, aides tell me, is going to be this weekend. secretary of state blinken back to the region which will include a spot in israel. he is expected to deliver tough messages to netanyahu about israel's conduct in the war and his vision for the days after the war. aides are not saying when president biden will publicly break with israel when he ramps up the public pressure. he has been slowly doing it, but he hasn't gone full throttle l yet. there is an expectation that his patience is running out. at a certain point, the equation and how israel is handling this has to change. president biden described it as being frustrated with netanyahu. the two men went weeks without speaking until they did connect on the phone again a few days

ago. there are no plans yet, i am told, for the president to deliver another speech about israel, and that might be the moment where he would upgrade netanyahu in what he is doing. they haven't ruled that out yet either. it's something they're keeping in reserve, and the clock is certainly ticking in terms of president biden's patience here. >> all right. coming up, we'll have the latest on the efforts to track down the migrants who assaults two police officers in times square. plus, we'll be joined by the nypd's chief of patrol, john shell. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ voya ♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. voya helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing across all your benefits and savings options. so you can feel confident in your financial choices. ♪♪ they really know how to put two and two together.

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yesterday, we told you about a group of migrants who attacked two nypd officers over the weekend, the controversy around that. suspects released without bail. sources familiar with the matter tell news 4 new york, four of

the suspects fled the state, boarding a bus for the california/mexico border under false names. >> willie, willie, who could have ever seen that coming? >> exactly. >> who could have ever seen that coming? seriously, the idiocy of it all. >> two more suspects have been arrested in connection to the attack. both charged with robbery, felony assault. the d.a.'s office chose not to prosecute one of them, citing a lack of evidence that that person was involved. the other was arraigned yesterday on $15,000 cash bail. in a new statement, new york governor kathy hochul is hardening her stance on the suspects, outright calling for them to be deported. in response to a question on the assaults, she said, get them all and spend them back, end quote. let's bring in nypd's chief of patrol john shell. also with us for the conversation, president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> chief, let's start with you. first, your reaction when you saw the video of your officers

being beaten right in the middle of times square. >> disgusted, angry. as a citizen who lives here, i'm saying to myself, what happened? as a cop, i wish i could be there to help them. as the chief of patrol, how did we get here? why did this happen? we were up to 14 people versus 2. 14 versus 2. as you mentioned, seven arrested, one finally got bail. the four that got arrested that day after our cops got up and still did their job and made radio transmissions, they were in front of a judge. we don't understand why bail wasn't requested. but that doesn't mitigate that the judge could have looked at the circumstances. i don't know if she saw the video. we don't know yet. she had the opportunity to step in and say, hold on a second. >> but we knew that cops had been beaten up by these guys, right? >> absolutely, absolutely. >> she knew that? >> she knew it. >> she still didn't hold them? >> apparently not. now, they walk out the door.

they're on a bus somewhere in america going somewhere right now. >> yeah. >> the insult to injury to all of us, and we're benevolent people in new york city, gave us the finger on the way out the door. >> literally. >> there's a host of issues we have to talk about, and it stops right here. >> chief, do we know, was bail requested and then the judge declined that, or do we know how that played out? >> for the four arrested that day, bail was not requested. the judge had an opportunity to obviously override that and say, no, i'll remand you and we'll take it from there. >> right. >> was the video played in court? we don't know that answer. it shouldn't matter. >> right. >> with the attack of two, the difference between good and evil there, that's not acceptable. >> rev, we talked about this yesterday, this is a confluence of really bad events. the mayor said, you know, we've got a problem with illegal immigrants. you can't keep sending illegal immigrants our way. we've got to take care of the problem at the border, which, of

course, right now, house republicans don't want to pass that bill to do it. then you've got, you know, so-called bail reform that allows people to beat the hell out of cops and walk and then flee. we have to circle back. city council has to step up. the governor has to step up. a lot of people that have passed a lot of bad laws need to step up and fix this situation. >> you have, as the chief said, a confluence of issues here. you have the immigration issue. you have the border issue. you have the issue of bail reform, which i say could be bail deform when people take advantage of the reform that many of us advocated. but when you get -- >> by the way, you talked about this yesterday, violence. when you're talking about violence -- >> exactly. >> and let me add on top of

that, violence against cops, against people who are supposed to protect new yorkers, at that point, come on, you're right, that's -- >> that's deform. >> it's not reform. >> and as he can tell you, many of us fought to get more blacks and latinos on the force. i mean, are we telling kids now, be a cop but you can get your behind beat and we're going to call it reform? no. reform is those that should be incarcerated or shouldn't be held because of financial reasons. all the way from border patrol down, i think that the issues have to be dealt with. but none of them, none of them justify beating policemen for any reason. >> right. >> this is not political. this is criminal. >> yeah. >> i think as i said yesterday on the show, i have an office of national action network in times square, and this happened near there. we cannot keep allowing -- i was in texas last night giving a speech -- the abbotts of the

world to send migrants here and not dealing with that issue. then we get here with all of the legitimate things we may disagree with with some of the policing, have in the middle of that civil debate, have this kind of thing going. i challenge a lot of my progressive friends, they need to step up like i have and say, wait a minute, this is not what we condone. this is not -- >> this is not acceptable. >> chief, just watching that video, they're assaulting other people. like, any kind of assault. on top of it, obviously, it's police officers. can you explain how bail reform that's taken place means that you can assault someone and then kind of walk out without any consequences? >> well, this was bail eligible. i think the bigger question is, like, how did we get here? i had 2,200 cops assaulted or attempted to be assaulted last year, and there were no consequences. there's no consequences. it's not a freebie to attack my cops. if there's no consequences,

you'll keep doing it. >> why aren't there consequences? are the judges anti-cop? are the prosecutors not tough enough? why are there not consequences? >> this is what we feel, some of us. the good guys have become the bad guys, and the bad guys are becoming victims. >> right. >> you know, this whole philosophy changed. bail reform is part of legislative changes, some rule changes recently in our city council, it just seems like everything is against us. we'll keep doing our job, and we do it well. but sometimes we're up against it, and we're trying to hold the city together. our cops are trying to hold the city together. our communities with our cops are trying to hold the city together. it seems sometimes we're up against it. >> we're grateful for it. all of us across the city are grateful for it. >> we're so grateful. >> as you know better than anybody, the bail reform took away judge's discretion. it's gotten incrementally better, i think you'd agree. judges can say, that person is dangerous. they need to stay.

has it gotten a little better the last five years, would you say? >> a little better. to the rev's point, some of the bail reform we agree with. you shouldn't sit in jail for a minor crime because they can't come up with $100. but we ask for the judges to say, hey, in this particular case, i'm taking you off the street. you're a danger to our communities. that's number one. number two, the discovery law it is thrust upon our d.a.'s office is really hurting them. the amount of paperwork they have to do for a case, their staffing levels are down, and they can't prosecute everything they could have pre-2020. those are the two things we asked for that didn't get changed yet. has it gotten a little better? sure. if it was a lot better, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. >> i want to ask you just generally, the level of support you're getting. we all obviously remember the terrible tragedy of george floyd in 2020. the millions and millions of

americans that went out and marched in protest. then, unfortunately, the backlash against -- because of what some bad cops did, the backlash against, seems to me, all cops. the rev and i have talked about this for a long time. because of that backlash against cops, an overreaction in most cases, it's actually neighborhoods where there are new yorkyorkers, people of colo suffering the most. look at the crime rates that skyrocketed the past four years. you look at thera rape, assaults, everything. it's in neighborhoods where, for the most part, where the people of color are predominantly living there. so i'm curious, are you starting

to notice more support coming out of 2020 than you may have felt a year or two ago, or are you still back on your heels? we're hearing this, by the way, from cops in philly. i hear this from cops in d.c. i hear this from cops in san francisco. all across america, this has been a problem. are we starting to see a slight change where you feel like your guys and women are getting a little more support? >> so the communities across the city, white, black, hispanic, green, blue, those are the people that support us. i've known them for a long time. we're tight with all our communities. the fringe element that don't reside in the city, i think those are the ones you're talking about that constantly attack us. but the homegrown, block association presidents, our community leaders, in each community from harlem to coney island, staten island,

manhattan, they've never left us. that's the story. the fringe is a different conversation, but the communities always supported us. we work together and have for years. we can't work independent of each other. we have to be dependent on each other, and that's never changed. >> rev, would you agree with that? you talk about people being so woke that they're kind of asleep at the switch. >> yeah, i think that the extremes on both sides of this argument get far more space than they should. extremes that are just anti-police no matter how accountable police are, and the extremes in the police that would put a knee on someone's neck. i think what has to happen is those that are the majority need to speak up when it is a bad cop. cops say, that's a bad guy. we're not supporting him. he should be punished. when it's the same in our community, especially if you're doing violence against cops, we need to step up and say, wait a minute, that's wrong. that hurts our community. it hurts us. let's not forget, just two years

ago, the majority of blacks in this city voted for a cop named eric adams to be mayor. >> yeah. >> don't act like this is -- that we're anti-cop. we're anti-bad cop. good cops are anti-bad citizens, and that's where we have to make this meet. i don't think either side can excuse what happened on times square. >> no. >> chief chell, as we let you go here and get back to work this morning, what would be the one thing, if you were talking to the city council or the governor, whatever it is, what would make, within reasonable bounds, your job easier and the city safer? >> change those bail reforms that i spoke about. give the d.a.s a chance to do their job like they did. certain crimes, no one in the city and community cops can tolerate, and there has to be consequences for your actions. assaulting cops, driving down the street at 100 miles an hour with no consequences, this affects our communities, our city. there is a quality of life issue. if we get that done, we'll be back to where we should be.

we still have the safest big city in the world. i'm not going to get off that. our mayor supports our tremendously. he is a crime fighter, an ex-cop, and allows us to do our jobs, allows me to do my job. holds us highly accountable. that's good. we have to change some of these rules, and we'll be back in business. >> fantastic. >> i can say, since he's been chief, when i lead marches and get arrested, uses plastic handcuffs. >> we put him in a special van. [ laughter ] >> nypd chief chell, thank you for coming. >> thank you for coming, chief. we're grateful. >> thank you. defense secretary lloyd austin is breaking his public silence and apologizing for withholding news of his hospitalization from his team and the president at the beginning of the year. chief white house correspondent peter alexander has more. >> reporter: with the u.s. on the cusp of retaliatory strikes, defense secretary lloyd austin detailing the pentagon's preparations. >> this is a dangerous moment in the middle east.

>> reporter: and speaking out for the first time about that controversy, how he hid his hospitalization and diagnosis from the president and the public. >> i want to be crystal clear. we did not handle this right, and i did not handle this right. >> reporter: delivering a frank and forthcoming apology. >> i should have told the president about my cancer diagnosis. i should have also told my team and the american public. i take full responsibility. i apologize to my teammates and to the american people. >> reporter: austin faced bipartisan outrage after revelations he spent several days at walter reed, unable to do his job, but kept it a secret from the commander in chief and others, saying he did not want to reveal his prostate cancer diagnosis. >> the news shook me. i know it shakes so many others, especially in the black community. it was a gut punch. frankly, my first instinct was to keep it private. >> reporter: even from the

president. >> putting my personal issue, adding to his -- all things he's got on his plate, i just didn't feel that that was a thing that i should do at the time. >> reporter: anyone else within the military chain of command would have faced reprimand or dismissal. why shouldn't that same standard apply to you, sir? >> let me just say that -- thanks for the question -- that we didn't get this right. as i said, i take full responsibility. >> reporter: austin's visible limp a sign of the 70-year-old's ongoing recovery. >> i'm here with a clear message to other men, especially older men, get screened. get your regular check-ups. prostate cancer has a glass jar. >> reporter: all of it coming as the u.s. is vowing what officials call a multi-target campaign that could last weeks in retaliation for the drone attack by iranian-backed militia that killed three u.s. service members. among more than 160 attacks since october on american

targets. why has the u.s. waited until american service members were killed to escalate its response? >> as you know, we've responded a number of times. i think at this point, we should -- it's time to take away even more capability than we've taken in the past. >> reporter: and delivering this warning to those iranian-backed forces. >> they have a lot of capability. i have a lot more.jordan, rever sharpton, jonathan lemire still with us. joining the conversation, analyst mike barnicle. "the washington post"'s eugene robinson. staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser. you know, mike, i think i said it and a lot of people said it at the time, that secretary austin, what he did just couldn't be done. i thought he needed to be replaced. he is a very, very private man. he's a quiet guy.

i thought yesterday's press conference was heartfelt and does explain sort of his mindset. and the fact that he is a private guy and he made a mistake, and he said, hey, i screwed up. i think that's what we want from our public officials. if they mess up, admit, and if we can move on, move on. the president's obviously fine with it. >> well, he is very fortunate in two respects. he is a good man. he's fortunate in that he seems to be doing well against the disease that he's fighting. and he works for someone who is very generous in terms of his understanding of human nature. the president of the united states. so when lloyd austin apologized to him, i'm sure the president probably said, you know, "lloyd, don't worry about it. you're fine with me. you're fine with the country. you do a great job. just don't let it happen again." >> exactly. gene robinson, again, a quiet man, a private man, and he made a mistake. we all make mistakes. he made a very public mistake,

but part of that was just who he was as a person, very private guy. you know, shocked by the disease, by the diagnosis. again, biden -- i think biden is fine with it. i'm curious what your thoughts are. >> well, first of all, i watched his press conference. he was -- it was interesting because he was introspective. he obviously had done some soul searching about the mistake and clearly understood that what he -- the way he'd handled this was wrong. not just in terms of his responsibilities, his job, but also in a public-facing way. so many men neglect their health, neglect to be checked for possible prostate cancer, especially african-american men, and he clearly hoped to use that

appearance yesterday as sort of a -- to teach people a lot of what he had learned. i think he learned a lot. my second reaction is that, in terms of president biden, the other thing he had to think about is that, you know, is changing horses in midstream. there's a lot going on. you have a war happening in ukraine. you have the middle east on fire. and you have a defense secretary who is on top of these situations, who is known by and who knows all the players and all these different theaters. that's one reason i would have been reluctant to make any sort of change at this point, even though it was a clear mistake. and kind of a close call. i would have certainly kept secretary austin on. >> gene is right, willie. so many things going on right now, and no guarantee that joe biden wouldn't be stuck with an acting secretary through the end of this term because he might

not be able to get anybody else confirmed in congress. >> by all accounts, excuse me, the president was with secretary austin from the beginning. he said, he screwed up. you have to tell me this stuff, but we're good. looks like they're moving on. meanwhile, on capitol hill, senate majority leader chuck schumer says the text of the bipartisan bill on the border likely will be released before the end of the weekend. he also called the senate back into session on monday, which likely sets up the first votes on that bill for wednesday. this comes as many republicans have been publicly trashing the bill despite, of course, not having read any of its text because it's not available yet. >> yeah. >> here is republican congressman troy nehls of texas. >> why would we do anything right now to help with that 33%? do you believe if joe biden's approval rating was at 53%, we'd even be talking about the border? we wouldn't be talking about the southern border, but he has to do something because he is hemorrhaging, bleeding. he'll try to come up with some border security plan, bipartisan

through the senate, that is nothing but hogwash. >> height of stupidity is having a strong opinion on something you know nothing about. i don't have a strong opinion on the bill because i haven't seen it. nobody has. i'm extremely disappointed in the strange maneuvering by many on the right to torpedo a potential border reform bill. that's what we all ran on doing. maybe they think securing the border would help biden politically. of course it would, but i want to secure the border. that's what i told my voters i'd do. some believe that. they're making it seem like the rest of us are against the bill. that's just not true because we haven't even seen it. we haven't even seen the deal. everybody needs to just take a step back and let the text come out. >> this wasn't biden's bill that troy nehls should know. biden didn't write this. it was one of the most conservative republicans in the senate, the oklahoma senator.

james langford. >> james langford, yeah. >> james langford. >> i don't think they realize it, but they're unintentionally smearing james langford. this is his bill with murphy. they got together. they don't know what text is in it. usually, back in your day in congress, joe, the stuff they say out loud, which is, "we can't introduce legislation that would help the american people and solve the crisis at the border, at least make it better, because we don't want this guy to win," was usually subtext, maybe whispered in rooms. >> right. >> but you don't come out and announce that's why you're not supporting it. >> it'd be whispered in rooms, but people would be going, oh, what are we going to do, help bill clinton? then bill would go on the floor, and we'd vote for it because it was good for america. yeah, maybe it helped bill clinton. it also helped america. crazy things happen. i mean, again, i've said it before, but you have republicans that hated clinton, clinton who

hated us, but everybody said, okay, here, here's our good bill. veto it. here's this. you know, balance the budget, mike, four years in a row. welfare reform that worked really well. you know, balance the budget four years in a row for the first time in 100 years. the economy grew. a lot of great things happened. guess what? yeah, bill clinton got credit for it. republicans in the house got credit for it. america was better for it. >> you're talking about literally a different era. >> yeah. >> maybe it was five years ago, six years ago, ten years ago, a completely different era. i mean, you listen to people like troy nehls and others in the republican house especially, and you wonder, what do they tell their voters when they run for office? i want to help you, looking to the future, and i want to see what we can do to make your life easier, or do they articulate what they're doing now, we're going to washington to obstruct anything that might improve this

nation. >> right. >> to improve your lives, improve the border, whatever it is. why? because the other guy might win. >> by the way, dan crenshaw, that's the guy who when he goes home, he can say, hey, i don't care if it helps biden. i promised you i'd do this, and i'm going to do it. that's the right thing to do. that's what gets people at the reagan-lincoln dinner standing on their feet going, "hell yeah, he's fighting for us." that's the stupidity. the ongoing stupidity of the house republicans on every front. you can add ukraine to the list. they are literally willing to let putin take over ukraine. they just don't care. they've dug in. they've decided, they're not going to support ukraine. they're not going to support a safer border. >> if it's bad for donald trump, they're against it. that's their guiding principle. it's true. >> how crazy.

elise, what's good for america is bad for donald trump. think about this. >> yeah. >> republicans have come to the conclusion, and donald trump has come to the conclusion and saying, i want the stock market to crash. i want there to be a great depression. i want joe biden to be herbert hoover. i want the border to remain open. i want fentanyl to be flooding across the border for the next eight months so i can run against it. i want illegal immigrants flooding in, continuing to flood in over the next eight months so i can run against it. republicans now have put themselves in a position where what's good for america is bad for donald trump, and that's all you need to know about that campaign and this republican party. >> well, every american is affected by a border out of control the way it is right now. senator james langford tried to put forward a serious policy proposal. we just played on repeat the new

york city cops getting beaten by men who should not have been in the country. so are republicans saying, "i'm okay with that, more cops can get beaten, i'd rather not give joe biden a victory"? >> that's where house republicans are right now. >> and susan is writing about her. her latest piece for "the new yorker" is titled, "the senate's false hope of a grand bargain meets its trumpy demise." sounds like you've written off the legislation. james langford, chris murphy, and kyrsten sinema would say there's still life left here. maybe not in the house, but they hope in the senate. what is the level of frustration from that senate group that has worked in good faith and in a bipartisan way and very seriously for a long time to craft this bill when they hear every republican in the house effectively, not every but most of them saying, this is dead on arrival? >> well, that's right. listening to donald trump and essentially mike johnson, the speaker of the house, acting as trump's proxy this week, coming

out, giving his first speech on the floor, substantive speech on the floor about this very issue, calling it essentially madness, a bill that hasn't even been released yet. you know, i do think you're seeing sort of the last gasp of the republican establishment in the senate, you know, sort of throw up its hands and say, you know, i don't know what we can do to move forward. langford is as conservative as they come. you know, he and mitch mcconnell seem to have really thought that there was a chance here to come up with a deal and that joe biden might be willing to take a deal, by the way, a border deal that at no other moment would a democratic president consider, except for in this political context. what i'm hearing from senators, you know, is this is a moment. somehow, donald trump wants us to squander this political moment in the name of hitching our entire party to his

political fortunes. by the way, the ukraine thing, this is as significant as it comes. we've taken the single, most toxic issue in american politics, the border, which has defied bipartisan solutions for years, and now hitched the fight of ukraine in its existential fight with russia, now held hostage to the toxic american politics of the border. it seems like a kind of political tragedy all around. >> susan, you recall, of course, that it was the house republicans who wanted to tie the two together and who wanted to make that gordian knot that can't be undone now. looks like ukraine aid might also be in peril. is there anything, do you think, that will move speaker johnson? in the end, he's the big obstacle. he won't bring it to the floor, theoretically, there could be a discharge petition or something like that, but is there anything that could move him, do you

think, to at least bring it to the floor where it probably could pass? >> well, that's right, gene. i think that, you know, the sort of supporters of ukraine, they see the hopes at this point is if the republicans in the house are not going to go ahead with the grand bargain, the border and ukraine, is there a chance to have a separate vote on ukraine? you saw mitch mcconnell suggesting earlier this week that's exactly where this thing is going to head now. biden has asked for $60 billion additionally for ukraine. you know, there's a widespread sense that even if there is a separate vote, they're unlikely to get the full $60 billion. you could see republicans extracting as a price for that a refusal to give the non-military part of the assistance package to ukraine. you know, there's still a hope, certainly in national security quarters and people i talk to

inside the administration, there can somehow be a way forward for ukraine aid. you know, i talked to one senator this week, gene, angus king from maine. he said, if we don't do this for ukraine, it'll be the biggest foreign policy mistake that the united states has made in 50 years. i do think the stakes are really high on this one. >> is it even imaginable that you have republicans, the right wing, that, in effect, are giving a victory to putin? i mean, maybe i missed something, but we used to say we wanted to make sure russia did not expand, that nato was secure, and now we are saying that we are having right-wing republicans, not, you know, so-called communist sympathizing, left-wing democrats, that are saying, "let putin do what he wants. we don't care if ukraine goes down." i mean, how do we even fix this in our minds politically, that we've shifted, other than to say this is where trump has brought

the republican party? >> yeah, i think that it is a direct consequence of donald trump's continued dominance over the republican party. i mean, if trump wins in november, this is the scenario that putin is keeping fighting for. he has zero incentive to end the war before november. he has zero incentive to have any kind of a negotiated settlement certainly with ukraine because there is the very real prospect that if trump comes to power, not only would he not continue u.s. assistance to ukraine -- remember, he's been a skeptic of it all along -- but he is a skeptic of nato itself. i think people should be very clear that that is a very likely consequence of trump, if he were to win power again in november. very clear. >> jonathan lemire, you know, the president of the united states when he was running, he kept talking about how america needed to come back. america needed to be the ally

that people could depend on. when he got elected, he said, "america's back. america's back. we're back." now, i'm hearing from administration officials that they're horrified. they're horrified these house republicans are willing to let vladimir putin continue his invasion deeper into ukraine and do nothing about it. we, once again, are proving ourselves to be bad allies. >> biden frequently tells a story about the first g-7 he attended as president in june 2021 in the uk. he made that proclamation to the other world leaders, saying america is back. one of them, french president macron said, "but for how long?" that question has hovered over this entire presidency. our allies and adversaries alike around the globe wonder what is happening with the united states right now, in terms of the republicans taking their marching orders from donald trump and not helping our allies in need, and also what a potential trump presidency would

look like. there is grave, grave concern that we're sending a signal that america can no longer be taken at its word and counted upon. as this is happening, what are house republicans actually focusing on? trying to impeach homeland secretary mayorkas. but there is doubt now whether they'll have the votes to do so. congressman ken buck spoke to msnbc yesterday and revealed where he stood. >> this is not a high crime or misdemeanor. it is not an impeachable offense. this is a policy difference. from the outset, i'll say there is a crisis on the border. the law needs to be enforced. if we start going down this path of impeachment with a cabinet official, we are opening a door that we republicans don't want to open. the next president that is republican will face the same scrutiny as democrats. it is wrong, and we shouldn't set this precedent. >> have leaders been trying to

convince you otherwise? is there anything that will change your mind? when you say solid no, you mean solid no? >> yeah, i'm not changing my mind. i believe i have done my due diligence, and i am standing firm at this point on this. if there is some new evidence, i'm happy to look at it, but i don't believe there will be. >> what should be noted here, the republicans who are standing up to trump are ones that don't need to count on trump's voters anymore. congressman buck retiring, not running for office again. say a mitt romney who has been willing to stand up to donald trump also saying they're not running again either, joe. you know, the homeland security impeachment coming at a time when the homeland security chief is supposedly managing the border, just another level of hypocrisy. certainly, that seems to be the republican focus right now opposed to actually getting a deal done. real pessimism surrounding its fate in both chambers right now. >> gene robinson, what i don't understand is, these 16 republicans that are in districts that biden won, you

know, they have to understand, they're going to lose. >> mm-hmm. >> a lot of them are going to lose their house seats if they keep going down this insane political trail they're going down right now. >> yeah. i mean, that was really kind of implicit in what congressman buck was saying. he's been around for a while, and i think he sees that coming. he sees that the way the house republicans are behaving, the ones who won in biden districts, is not guaranteeing, there are no guarantees in politics, but they're making it likely they'll be short-timers and they're out of here come november. i don't see how they don't get this. i don't -- i mean, i understand their need to not be the target of donald trump's ire and rage, but if they want to keep their seats, you know, political parties usually understand this,

understand what members are endangered and what sorts of votes they need to take. this house republican caucus doesn't understand that. because of that, i think it is going to be a very short-lived majority. right now, it is, what, a two-seat majority, barely a majority at all, and i think it'll evaporate. >> eugene robinson and susan glasser, thank you, both, so much. greatly appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," a live report from the middle east as the biden administration prepares a response to the drone strikes that killed three u.s. service members in jordan. nbc's keir simmons will join us from the region. plus, we're awaiting the january jobs report. we'll be taking a look at the new numbers and what they could mean for the u.s. economy. in our fourth hour, the man who assaulted elmo. >> hmm. >> i don't even know how to process that. larry david and susie essman

will join us live in the studio for a look at the final season of "curb your enthuenthusiasm." the final season, of course, until larry changes his mind. as we go to break, willie, young jack will be running down the stairs with his oatmeal cookies. >> skipping. >> playing hymns on his glockenspiel and going, "papa, papa, what does uncle willie have on sunday today?" >> snapping his suspenders, the shorts and knee-high socks. >> that's it. for 6'3", 220 pound, living in the gym jack scarborough. >> left tackle at alabama. >> exactly. >> he's always going to be that guy. >> papa, papa. >> you know who is coming up on "sunday today?" grammy sunday, by the way. an artist nominated six times on sunday, superstar olivia rodrigo. >> oh, wow. >> she is massive right now. her second album, "guts," followed up "sour" which had "driver's license."

she made a huge leap from being a middle school song writer at home during the pandemic to becoming a star around the world. on grammy sunday, sit down with olivia rodrigo on "nbc's sunday today." we'll be right back on "morning joe." >> "papa, papa we'll be right back on "morning joe." >> "papa, pa, i love her." pa, i" hey, you should try new robitussin honey medi-soothers for long-lasting cough and sore throat relief. try new robitussin lozenges with real medicine and find your voice. you know? we really need to work on your people skills. i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty.

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let's be be clear. >> let's watch this as we remember the tragic day. we are marking ten years. >> where were you? >> well, i was right here, of course. >> yeah. >> i'll tell you, you can count on "morning joe"'s paper of record, "the new york post," to take us back to a time when, you know, we were a little younger, a little more innocent. >> we have a decision! >> yeah. >> here it is, this is the ten-year anniversary of the day former new york city mayor bill de blasio dropped a groundhog on its head. >> heartbreaking. >> it died, not instantly, a couple days later. it was a slow death. >> i remember watching this over and over again, slow motion. looking behind the grassy knoll, see if there was something else more to this. i remember watching barnic e lb saying, i don't think we'll ever laugh again. he said to me, "oh, joe, we'll laugh again but we'll never be young again.

"ten years ago". >> joe had tears in his eyes, mournful morning. >> she had a name, charlotte. >> that's one eulogy i didn't do. [ laughter ] >> how about having mara gay on this morning with the deep reporting on this? >> the foremost analyst of the groundhog dropping/killing murder. >> she wrote the story for "the wall street journal" at the time. very helpful. >> you know what i just learned in this expose from the "new york post," it was supposed to be groundhog chuck in the little enclosure. because groundhog chuck previously had bitten mayor bloomberg for this event only, they swapped out groundhog chuck, and groundhog charlotte went in there. groundhog charlotte wasn't supposed to be there that day, adding another layer to the tragedy. >> yeah, yeah. >> so. >> wow. >> by the way, who do we -- as we get ready to go to break and

the "morning joe" about nothing, in the super bowl next week, who are you for, chiefs or niners? who wins? >> i never bet against mahomes, chiefs. >> i'm the same way. you can't bet against mahomes, though christian mccaffrey is a spectacular player. i love watching the show, the athleticism on both sides. >> this is -- i mean, this is the yankees and the dodgers right here as far as, you know, just the two best. >> 49ers. kyle shanahan, best coach in the nfl. >> wow. >> that's a good call. >> i don't follow football until the super bowl. i'm with mahomes. >> okay. >> wow. >> if mahomes wins, he is, mike, you have to put him up there. >> he is close now. >> one of the best. >> he gets closer to joe montana and tom brady. >> he's not quite there. >> i said close. >> he's not close to brady. close to montana. >> close to montana. no one is ever going to touch

tom brady. >> probably not. >> now what? we're going to go to break now. >> cool. >> when we come back, alex, what are we going to talk about? >> some serious stuff with keir simmons and -- >> when we come back, we're going to talk about some serious stuff, alex tells me. we'll be right back with more "morning joe" on this formless friday, brought to you by mika not being here. >> perfect show. >> -- provide a shadow or reason to hide? glad tidings on this groundhog day. an early spring is on the way! [ cheers and applause ] why choose a sleep number smart bed? because no two people sleep the same. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number settings. it's so smart, it actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side for your ideal sleep temperature,

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leaders of the european union sealed the deal to send $54 billion to ukraine, overcoming weeks of opposition

from hungarian prime minister orban, a favorite of president trump. also, orban a close ally of vladimir putin, had been threatening to veto any aid package. don't know why he changed his mind yet or if he received anything in exchange for the vote. the money aims to support ukraine's economy amid its war against russia through the end of 2027. the deal now goes to the eu's parliament for a vote which could take place this month. meanwhile, secretary of state blinken returning to the middle east this weekend, his fifth trip since the war in gaza began in october. it comes as israel and hamas are inching closer to a hostage release deal, but tensions across the middle east could thwart the efforts. the united states says it is preparing to strike iran-backed militias in syria and iraq in response to the attack in jordan that killed three american service members. president biden is set to atnieo

honor the victims later today. keir simmons joins us from erbil, iran, with the latest. >> reporter: willie, i'll answer in one moment. to start, i was listening to your conversation last hour about michigan, about muslim and progressive and young voters there, and their anger at the horrors in gaza, and fascinated by that conversation, that political conversation there. doesn't have much to say on didn't include that much about iran. from this part of the middle east, iran is absolutely the focus. what we've heard overnight from president of iran is a pretty angry response of the prospect of those u.s. strikes that we

are waiting for, saying we will not start a war, but the ones that want to bully us will be dealt with with a strong response. i thought what was also more interesting overnight was the leader of one of the iranian-backed militia, the negaba movement, and he is part of the islamic resistance in iraq, the group accused by the u.s. of killing the three u.s. servicemen and women at that base, and he says, we said it before and we repeat, we will affirm, we will not stop until we achieve two goals, stopping operations in gaza and withdrawing of the american occupation in iraq. now, that message is interesting because what it says, firstly, is no matter what you do, america, we are going to carry on with our support from iran. we're going to carry on attacking. it says that, and it also is quite a confused message because another group inside of islamic resistance in iraq said this

week they were halting their attacks, their operations. i think that gives a picture of parts of this iranian-backed resistance movement that is quite disorganized, and western intelligence suggests they're trying to figure out -- "politico" talks about this today -- they're trying to figure out the extent to which iran controls the groups and the extent to which it doesn't. that's kind of the picture here as the u.s. begins to plan these strikes. we've heard from the secretary of defense, being clear, secretary austin, that it doesn't matter whether there is a dotted line or straight line to these groups, they know who they believe is responsible. >> you know, we believe that this was done by an element of what is known as the axis of resistance. these are iranian proxy groups. how much iran knew or didn't

know, we don't know. it really doesn't matter because iran sponsors these groups. it funds these groups. in some cases, it trains these groups on advanced conventional weapons. so, you know, again, i think without that facilitation, these kinds of things don't happen. >> reporter: joe, we have a pretty good picture, actually, i think, of where america might strike, because we know where america and israel has been striking for the last decade in syria and, to some extent, there are places like damascus airport, places like aleppo airport, where the iranians are pretty well dug in. >> keir, let's move from the middle east -- thank you so much for your reporting there. it is such a jumble of different interests and different iranian-backed groups. you're so right. i wanted to move, though, from

the middle east to europe if we could. i'm curious your thoughts on the 50 billion euros that the euvot. they did it, obviously, running over viktor orban, who has become an increasingly isolated figure in the eu with poland electing donald tusk last fall. did any insight or any knowledge reporting on how they rolled orban, why orban backed down there? >> reporter: well, viktor orban, like so much in politics, everything is local, right? viktor orban is trying to put pressure himself on brussels to gain access to money, prevent them from punishing him for his, let's put it this way, slightly undemocratic ways, so there's all that going on.

not dissimilar, honestly, to, you know, president erdogan of turkey. there are those games being played. certainly, you know, you're right, that there will be a sense of victory, actually, i would describe it that way, in brussels about achieving this. the french, for example, will be delighted. germans will be delighted. part of the reason for that will be because the europeans are looking ahead at -- they're not just watching what's happening on the hill. they're also looking ahead to the november election and what they can expect from the u.s., depending on who is president in a year's time. >> yeah. >> reporter: so the french message, you know, is proverbially, continually, that it is a -- that europe needs to stand on its own two feet. i think as you know, in ukraine, there will be a sense of relief. i don't think we should underestimate the extent to which the battle lines there in

ukraine are seeming relatively fixed. it's a war, you never know, but, you know, i think on both sides, it's incredibly difficult to make progress. certainly, analysts have been very worried that without that money, there was the potential that the ukrainian defenses would collapse. they still need the money from the u.s., too, but this money will certainly make a difference. >> i mean, it is such an important insight that americans need to understand. what you've just said about those battle lines being fixed, i remember talking last february off the record -- i can say it now though -- last february to the chairman of the joint chiefs at the time, mark milley. he said, those battle lines are fixed. this was last february, a year ago. he said, you know, a version of this, but wasn't quite as he was to me. he said, "they're not going to get all the russians out of ukraine, and the russians aren't going to get to kyiv.

those battle lines are fixed, and we're going to be fighting world war i war of attrition for the next five, ten years if we're not careful." keir, here you're talking about those lines being fixed a year later, and they are. a decision is going to have to be made at some point. you can speak to that. i want to -- because mika is not here and this is formless friday, i'm going to bounce from europe back to iraq, because i wanted to ask you, we had heard the iraqi leaders saying to the u.s., "thank you for being here. we don't need you here anymore." obviously, they don't want to get in the middle of a shooting war between iran and u.s. forces. i'm curious, what are you hearing on the ground about the >> that's a great question. let me just answer the first piece about ukraine just to finish. an important insight, i think. >> right.

>> you don't -- it's not just about what happens on the battlefield. it's what happens in potentially negotiations, when the two sides assumingly at some states sit at opposite sides in different rooms, and how much money there is from u.s. and europe. it's not going to crumble. that's a different negotiation position from ukraine. that's one aspect. in terms of here in iraq, the reason why that's a great question because iraq is a fascinating study, right? iraq is a partner of iran and of the u.s. there are u.s. forces here, but very small numbers. nothing like of course, the invasion of iraq,and so if you overrespond if you are the u.s. here, you push the iraqi government potentially more towards iran. you give the many, many voices here and you say, come on.

it's time to get iran out. as far as my answer, that's one of the objectives after these iranian-backed groups here is try to get the u.s. out of this region. it's incredibly difficult, but another part of this though that i mentioned at the top there, the fact that the u.s. and israel have been launching strikes for ten years in syria and to a lesser extent here in iraq, that tells you something. what it tells you is that this is a shadow war that has been going on for a long time that for israel, it's a deep worry about another front opening up with syria. they've already got hezbollah. they already have gaza, and as well as that, what it tells you is that very likely, no matter what the u.s. does in these strikes that we expect to come, it won't move the needle of iran's strategic objectives which is to gain more dominance and to push america out. the real debate is about whether or not you negotiate with iran

over there or whether you confront iran over there. the u.s. has been having that argument for a very long time, and from here, one of the issues is -- the argument is understandable. maybe you have to do a balance of the two, but from here, one of the issues is america doesn't seem to be able to make up its mind. >> nbc's keir simmons. great insight. thank you for your reporting. live in iraq, we greatly appreciate it, and what keir just said is what government leaders are saying in paris. they're all over europe as well, and that the importance of the united states and the eu giving iraq -- i'm sorry. not iraq, but giving ukraine the money they need, the importance is not so much for what it will do on the battlefield. it will help them on the battlefield, but it's even more important to show putin that we're still standing with

ukraine because our intel and intel in europe is that putin does want to bring this war to an end. he has a reason to bring this war to an end. yes, he'll wait for donald trump if he needs to wait for donald trump, but if the house -- the republican house will stop being pro-putin and give ukraine the money it needs, it puts the ukrainians in a more powerful position to negotiate with putin and get a better deal to end this war once and for all. >> it does all of that in addition to one other thing. the additional money from the united states added to the european contribution that they just decided upon. it stabilizes the slog that is now this war. fixed positions -- >> yeah. >> no progress on either side, and the larger point is it sends a message to vladimir putin that the united states is not going away. >> right. >> we're not disappearing on ukraine. we're not disappearing in the

middle east. we're going to remain a force in the global sense in the world. >> right. >> we are not going away. >> and unfortunately again, if the house republicans continue what they're doing, the message -- the great fear of the biden administration now is the message they're sending to china and what that leads to in taiwan, and that's all brought to you -- that chaos all brought to you by donald trump and the house republicans. turning now to a landmark involuntary manslaughter child in michigan, the mother of a teenager who killed four students at oxford high school in 2021 testified in her own defense yesterday. nbc news correspondent maggie vespa has the latest. >> i've asked myself if i would have done anything differently, and i wouldn't have. >> if you could change what happened, would you? >> oh, absolutely. i wish he would have killed us instead. >> reporter: jennifer connelly on the stand testifying in her

own defense about her relationship with her son, ethan. >> i thought we were pretty close. >> reporter: and pushing back on prosecutors' core argument that leading up to the 2021 shooting at oxford high school, she ignored clear signs her son was struggling. >> did you ever believe that your son needed mental health treatment? >> no. i mean, there was a couple of times where ethan had expressed anxiety, not to a level where i thought he needed to go see a psychiatrist or mental health professional. >> reporter: she testified school administrators downplayed concerns including in meeting with ethan's guidance counselor the morning of the shooting. >> he told us he didn't feel my son was a risk. >> shawn hopkins telling the jury monday -- >> i felt it was better for him to be around peers and people who are his age than to be home alone. >> reporter: prosecutors say both of ethan's parents bought him the gun used in the shooting, but crumbley saying her son was responsible for it.

>> who was responsible for storing the gun? >> my husband. it was his thing. >> reporter: her testimony following an emotional morning as prosecutors played surveillance video of the deadly shooting. >> because the situation was active and the killing hadn't stopped, you can't stop and render aid. >> nbc's maggie vespa there. our next guest writes about the gun violence epidemic. dr. jonathan metzle joins us now with his new book titled "what we've become: living and dying in a country of arms." thanks for being with us again this morning. what does the left have wrong when it talks about gun reform? >> well, i'm liberal doctor living here in nashville, tennessee, and the book is about a 2018 mass shooting that happened here in nashville. a naked, white man went into a waffle house and killed four young adults of color. really a horrific mass shooting that traumatized our entire

city, and in the aftermath, it just seemed like, you know, what we learned in the case of the aftermath was this was a slam-dunk case. we needed more public health gun reform. this guy should have been stopped. it was a similar story to the one we just heard. the parents had given him the gun, but there were all these warning signs, and instead what happened here in nashville is after people like me, democrats like me spoke out and doctors spoke out and the community spoke out and we protested, the state turned around and elected a governor bill lee who ran on the platform of, i'm going to make ate lot easier for people like this shooter and men like this to get guns. the story of the book is why is it? why is it that a case like this, that was such a clear case of we need red flag laws, we need background checks. why didn't it work? these are positions i support, and in the book i talk about really three narratives. one is it's a story about race and violence and guns in the

south, that kind of story we know. it's also about the power of the nra and the power of the gun lobby and controlling judges and institutions here in the south, but for me, the surprising third narrative was i really learned a lot -- i spent five years interviewing people on all sides of this. i interviewed gun owners all across tennessee and kentucky and other places, and they told me things that i found really interesting which were that, you know, we hate these mass shootings also, but after mass shootings, people like you run in and say, we need more government regulation. we need more background checks that are government databases, more red flag laws that are empowering the police to surveil us, and so what they told me was the message that you guys are sending really pushes us more toward wanting to hold tighter to our guns, and so part of the book is a reckoning about what i thought about that narrative and how that might make me change my own practices as somebody who's admittedly a liberal who

supports gun control. >> you have such an interesting perspective coming from tennessee where there are guns everywhere, and actually talking to gun owners there, and can you talk about what you write and what you learned in the process of this book about how gun owners view any -- any new regulation? >> well, one of the most powerful interviews that i talked about in the book beside the ones with the people and the ones involved with the shooting, a guy told me, you know, libel -- liberals think if they just shout louder, it's messaging for us. the liberal framework says it's common sense gun reform that implies that i don't have common sense because i feel like my safety comes from my weapon, and not from the government, and again, that's not a position that i agree with, but i really came to understand that perspective which is that for this guy, coming back, you know, people like me coming in and

saying, we need more regulation was no match for the countermessage that he was hearing from people like trump, people like republicans in tennessee who were telling him basically you can keep your power. you can keep your guns if you just vote for me and not these democrats. so in part, i came to understand how regulation was no match for the power message, but i also came to understand that people -- a lot of people i spoke with kind of wanted change. they just wanted different kinds of change than things people like me initially were offering. >> dr. metzl, in your book do you deal with the fact -- i know you've dealt with some of the legislation, some of the race factors and all, but what about the cultural factors? because i think a lot of people like you and i that may want to see gun reform underestimate how people see gun ownership, and that's who they are.

this is a real statement of, you're after my culture. you're after trying to change who i am, who my daddy was, my granddaddy was. how do you deal with the cultural identity of gun ownership? >> well, part of that is that we make the understandable, but i think mistake sometimes of rushing in -- it's understandable why we respond to mass shootings and particularly ones as horrific and sensational as the one i write about, but a lot of gun owners told me, you only pay attention to us after mass shootings and you rush in and you conflate all of us. you say, here's a mass shooting, and therefore all gun owners -- they felt, you know, like they were all guilty or something like that. so in a way, part of the issue was that they felt like their culture was under attack. i'm not a neutral observer here. i'm a scholar of race as well, and the culture suggests that, you know, what it means to be a white, male citizen in the south is somebody that carries a gun. that's a historical story that

we know for hundreds of years. white men were the men who, you know, who were esteemed enough to carry weapons and everybody else wasn't. so part of the story is about how that culture of -- i think it needs to be changed, but i would also argue that we need to understand it a lot more deeply. >> all right. the new book is titled "what we've become: living and dying in a country of arms." thank you so much. >> thank you so much. you know, elise, i love -- i love what he's done. i love that he's gone out and he's talked to people with whom he disagrees, and i think this is an important book for people to read, to understand the gun culture. let's though, you know, tell the truth about it though. the nra started back in the

early '90s, hyping up this narrative that the government was coming after you. and they're jack-booted thugs and they're going to kill you and your family and take your guns. i know because i heard that when i was running. i remember a lot of, i think, bush. president bush left the nra and others left the nra after they started talking that way, and they started -- they made a conscious effort starting in the '90s to make the government, to make law enforcement the enemy. and so the argument is when -- i have had this debate over and over again. i've always been pro-second amendment. i have been a gun owner like most people in, you know, that i know in the south, but, you know, you get into an argument with somebody that feels like they have to have a weapon of

war. an ar-15 by the way, designed for war, designed to be a more efficient killing machine in the jungles of vietnam than the weapons that were used there. that's why it was made, and there's just no justification. at the end of the day, they keep going back to the corner. i say, why don't you just admit it? you want this ar-15 because you want to be able to kill cops or you want to be able to kill, you know, you have this paranoid idea that the army's coming to get you or something like that. which is a ridiculous argument. an ar-15 is not going to stop the government if the government wanted to get somebody for breaking the law, but it's -- it's twisted logic. so i understand. the book is a very important book. i'm going to buy it. i'm going to read it. i'm going to consume it, but there are some arguments like background checks. 90% of americans support background checks. 80% of americans support red

flag laws, you know, two thf thirds of americans support the banning of military-style weapons. i'm not so concerned about the 6% that are sitting there thinking that if we have universal background checks that will save lives, if we have red flag laws that will save lives, you know, their paranoid views of the world twisted by the nra and others, you know, we can try to reason, but at the end of the day, you know, we can't let kids keep getting killed. >> no, and i think the only policy solution is to ban high-capacity magazines. i don't think you can get rid of the guns. i think there are too many in the country, but let's not have a mechanism that allows mass shooters to kill in such high volume and so quickly, and i just go back to -- i conducted some focus groups a couple of years ago in memphis and one group, trump voters, and a majority were teachers in the

group too, and it was right after a mass shooting. >> right. >> and gun owners, but they agree just like you're saying, with reform, with what we call common sense reform. dr. metzl just said that shouldn't be used, but background checks. the teachers didn't want the extra responsibility of managing a gun in their classrooms. >> right. >> it's stupidity, and it's gotten out of control that this health issue isn't dealt with, and it hurts responsible gun owners frankly. >> and willie, you know, grown up in atlanta, georgia, meridian, mississippi, tuscaloosa. gun owners have been there their entire life and they say the same thing after a mass shooting. why do they need that gun? why do you need that? what idiot needs that? that's what members of the

nra -- that's whose people who took them out hunting when they were 5 or 6 years old, that's what they say. they get on the air like politicians and, you know, these lobbyists get on the air going, you don't understand the gun culture. we do understand it. we grew up in it and a lot of people in the gun culture think they're idiots and that's why 90% of americans support universal background checks. i'm not talking about taking away guns. i'm talking about making sure crazy people can't get guns. i think most americans agree with that position. >> gun owners are poorly represented by their leadership and the nra was way up in the air and to the extreme talking about guns. we all know, and our gun owners, no one is more concerned about gun safety than a gun owner. they know how to handle weapons. they know what should be out there and what shouldn't. >> right. >> that paranoia, the anti-government paranoia that you are talking about has been brewing for generations as you

know, and they hire more people to work behind computers so you can get your tax return. chuck grassley says they're coming to kick down your door. >> and kill middle class americans. >> they're going to kick down your door and kill you. that's the mindset of, again, of the extremes, but it's a powerful extreme that runs the conversation on guns on the right. we're getting some jobs numbers coming up here in a couple of minutes. we want to read the markets. moving higher already. anticipating hopefully for the country, a good number. we'll bring you those numbers and some insight. plus, as promised, larry david and susie essman. and larry will answer for his crimes. >> crimes against muppets. >> we'll be right bag. muppets. >> we'll be right bag.

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all of a sudden, he aced the cognitive test, doesn't seem to know what's going on. >> is pac money trying to pay some of the penalties in new york defamation and fraud cases? >> i don't understand. what? >> are you trying to use campaign money to pay for the fraud case and defamation case? >> i didn't do anything wrong. that's been proven as far as i'm concerned. >> but as far as the court is concerned, you're you did do something wrong, and it's going to cost you $83 million. he's like that mob boss who pretended to be crazy by wandering around in a bathrobe. he's vinny the chin is who he is. >> thanks to jonathan lemire and his colleagues at politico, we're learning about who donald trump thinks and says in private. you and your colleagues have new reporting on the language president biden uses behind

closed doors when talking about the former president. >> we need to make john actually say the words. >> yeah. >> yes. >> we almost did at the campaign stop. he almost said, he's a sick -- he stopped himself. >> get the delay ready. get the delay ready. >> he almost slipped up last month marking the third anniversary of the attack on january 6th. >> trump and his maga supporters not only embrace political violence, but they laugh about it. at his rally, he jokes about an intruder, whipped up by the big trunk lie, taking a paul pelosi's skull and echoing the same words used on january 6th. where's nancy? he thinks that's funny. he laughed about it. what a sick -- my god. [ applause ] i think it'sdespicable,

seriously. >> he was right on the cusp. in private, according to john and his colleagues, he doesn't stop himself there. the president described trump to longtime friends and close aides as a sick insert expletive who delights in others' misfortunes. >> i'm glad they give us the "f" there. i was thinking sick puppy. >> biden recently used expletives when referring to trump. biden grew particularly incensed by reports of trump refusing to visit a military cemetery in the rain and by stories that he's mocked the sacrifices of fallen american soldiers. we heard some of that anger in his speech last weekend in south carolina. >> donald trump, when he was commander in chief refused to visit a cemetery -- a u.s. cemetery outside of paris for fallen american soldiers and he referred to those heroes and i quote, as suckers and losers.

he actually said that. he said that. how dare he say that? how dare he talk about my officers like that. look. i call them patriots and heroes. the only loser i see is donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] >> you know, john, a lot of people first of all, will -- they have talked about your reporting, but i think why it's so important is because people are always asking, why is biden running? why is biden running? i don't understand. he should quit. he should just do his four years. he's running in part for the same ran he ran the first time. that was because of charlottesville, and he's running this time because he thinks donald trump is a sick fella and thinks that he's bad for america. he thinks he's terrible for america, and just bluntly he doesn't think anybody in the democratic party can beat him but him. >> that's precisely right.

he believes that donald trump is a danger to democracy. he believes his behavior is despicable and un-american. it is a personal affront to what joe biden believes this country should be about, and in my reporting, we learned there were a few things in particular that really set him off behind closed doors and lead to those profane outbursts. you mentioned charlottesville, when donald trump defended people on both sides of that racist riot. that is what led joe biden to run in 2020. the reports that donald trump confirmed by the january 6th committee that donald trump sat and watched the insurrection from a private dining room off the oval office, cheering them on and rewinding the most violent parts. biden views him as unpatriotic, and the mockery of american soldiers which is personal because his son beau biden was stricken and died of cancer soon after returning from iraq, and the scene where donald trump laughs and floats conspiracy theories about the attack of

paul pelosi, and this is something the president feels behind closed doors, and it's fueling this run, and that's why he has told close aides. he's the one man to beat trump. he has done it before and he can do it again. the white house refused to comment on this story. they didn't dispute it, but others in the biden camp were very pleased to hear this come out because they say, look. the president is simply saying what a lot of americans think. >> this is a good story because it's just an obvious story, and you look at good stories within washington or what people are talking about, but hasn't really broken out, and of course, biden is calling trump a sick -- because he is. who is not basically by this point calling donald trump that? it's pretty obvious and pretty unsurprising. >> i think it's relatable. >> yeah. >> i mean, you know. biden's running for president. i think, you know, he wants to be as relatable as possible and

there are a lot of americans out there who probably see this as pretty cathartic. >> i think this may be -- may be one reason why the white house probably should let him out more. there's been concerns that he's not getting out, he's not doing enough stuff. he's not answering enough questions. all right. so if he makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. andy cord told barnicle one time that the -- that the thing that people didn't get about bush was when he bumbled around and wasn't perfect, wasn't ronald reagan -- talking about 43. people said it made him more relatable. he wasn't speaking in flowery language, like, people felt like okay, yeah. he's one of us. that's biden. let fox news make fun of him because he has the same stutter he has had since he was 14 years old, but go out and show flashes of anger. that happened in -- by the way

in 2020. he went after a guy in iowa. he almost called him a fat something and he cut himself off, and there were actually -- again, it showed a human side of him. >> i was talking yesterday to someone who studies disinformation, misinformation, and kind of how, like, people's perceptions get set in, and they were talking about how people think about when there's a piece of information that's put out that's false, the instinct of politicians and communications offices is to dispute that fact, right, to fact check it. >> right. >> that, in fact, it works in the world, but it's better to give people something else to think about, and it implicitly disproves the first thing. when people talk about biden's age, nothing refutes the notion that he's not up to the job, than when you see him behind the wheel of a car with the aviators on looking good. people say, he's not old enough. he's fine. you show it, right? this is what you are talking about, joe. >> right. >> you get him out there, showing the anger, the passion,

you know, you don't -- they argue about is he too old or does he have it? you have to show he has it, especially in a relatable way that he's pissed off about a lot of the things that people are pissed off about, and it makes him seem -- if he stumbles a little bit, people forgive the stumble when they see the passion, and they hear words that sound normal, american, human to them and everybody out there, we're all, like, cable news, we're all children about profanity. in real life, profanity every day, and no one cares and we don't put an asterisk, and people go around and say these words. fine. it's good for them. >> i didn't realize we were children. >> i meant, you know -- in the industry's thing of, we can't say these words. we must bleep them. >> i think that's probably good to not say them. >> a lot of children are watching. >> i don't think many people are offended by these words anymore. >> no. that's why i don't -- still, i don't say them. >> i know you don't.

you're pure of heart. i want to ask lemire this question for those of us who are students of profanity, lemire. do you know like on the george carlin scale of the 7 of 10 words you can't say on television, how many joe biden likes to say? i wonder how deep the reporting goes. >> there were examples we cited for the story, but it's a well-known secret if you will behind here in washington that president biden is pretty salty behind closed doors. he does have a quick temper. he's been the first to admit that, and he's pretty profane at times when he's fired up about something, and certainly he is about donald trump, and that's what people over and over told me. biden was horrified by trump's actions during the 2016 campaign and during his presidency, but in his post-presidency even more so. the way trump has treated these criminal trials. we have heard from him about e. jean carroll. everything connecting to the insurrection, the warm words for putin after the invasion, you

know, praising hezbollah for being smart. over and over and over, trump just feels that -- biden just feels that trump is unfit for office and i'm told his pure loathing of the person, not just the politician, but the person of donald trump has only grown. >> and willie, when stories like this come out and when biden goes out and he shows anger, which i think most people will see as appropriate anger, righteous anger over for instance, him saying that people that die in war -- war heroes are suckers, that also not only puts that story out there, but you go behind the anger. okay. why is he really angry? in this case, you see, and we just showed it on the screen, but it gets back into discussion. general kelly was the one that confirmed when he was donald trump's chief of staff, you know, he -- kelly confirmed that he called the war dead suckers and kept asking why would -- why would somebody do that? why would somebody go to war,

you know, what's in it for them? talking to a man whose own son had been killed in war. just the cruelty, the hatefulness, the cluelessness. >> and the president has the added layer as he said in that sound bite, my son served. you're talking about the sons and daughters of many, many americans. it also underlines, you know, republicans are trying to say, i keep thinking about when senator mike lee came out and endorsed donald trump, i can live with the mean tweets as if it's just mean tweets. moments like this remind people, no. he disparages people who serve in the united states military. it reminds people it's more than just tweets. it's about the character of the man. >> the guy who says, i can deal with the mean tweets at the same time a judge accuses him of rape -- >> yep. >> and he's playing close to $100 million for defaming a woman that the judge said he

raped, that the jury said he sexually abused, yeah, mike lee. it's not about the tweets. like, how stupid do these people think we are? i don't think mike went to an ivy league school. >> i don't know where he went to school. >> can we see the banner again of these guys that went to ivy league schools that are just total idiots? do we have that on hand? look at this. i love this. so tell me, stanford, and yale, how are you feeling this morning about senator josh hawley going there, or, you know, every one of these people? and you look at them. they're genuinely bad actors. they're bad for america with their faux populism and they're fawning over donald trump. they're just bad actors. >> i like the kennedy, honorary

ivy leaguer. what is that? >> oxford. >> oh, he went to oxford. >> i wonder if they teach civics at the ivy leagues. >> i guess they don't anymore. we're staying in school. come on. men and women of the people. they went to oxford. >> that's pretty fancy. it's not the ivy league, but pretty fancy. >> he talks like this now, right? he does that -- whatever. >> cruz is the worst though. cruz is just the worst. he's got everybody beat. harvard and princeton, dear god. mark of the devil. >> i mean, seriously. but john kennedy, also. any time you have john kennedy's clip from -- what was it? 2004. >> 2004, yeah. >> i am a democrat, therefore i shall vote for senator john kerry, you know, having it with his gray poupon. how do you do that?

>> that's great. >> just all the phony act acceptabilities. >> it's ted cruz wearing the cowboy boots with the suit. he's a real texas cowboy except in every way possible. >> let's soldier on. let's get real news going here. coming up, president biden is putting israel on notice over a series of violent attacks against palestinians in the west bank. the latest on the newest u.s. sanctions targeting israeli settlers when "morning joe" comes right back. when "morn comes right back ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) emergen-c crystals. psst. hey, sarah. hi. if you had to choose, would you listen to elevator music all day or deal with payroll compliance? payroll compliance, for sure. wait. for real? switching to gusto made staying compliant much easier. on top of seamless payroll, they automatically calculate my taxes and file with the right agencies for me. can gusto help my small business with compliance too? definitely.

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>> reporter: carpentry union worker tracy credits biden for bringing infrastructure jobs here. >> joe biden has kept us working, and he's labor-friendly, and that's all i can ask for. >> reporter: but warning signs for the biden campaign including this new poll showing a potential head to head matchup here with gop front-runner donald trump. scott mallonfort has been here for 20 years. >> i support trump because i truly believe he does want what's best for the american worker. >> reporter: the former president is trying to peel off more of those blue collar voters, meeting with teamsters leadership. >> over the years, i have employed thousands and thousands of teamsters and they've done a great job. >> reporter: another challenge for president biden here? cratering support from the huge arab american population demanding a ceasefire in gaza. >> i think he is funding a genocide. >> reporter: the president said he understands that pain and passion, but that's not enough

for some in the suburbs. >> how disappointed are you with the biden administration? >> im a heartbroken. i'm so hurt. it's a feeling of betrayal. >> reporter: she voted for biden in 2020, but now -- >> there is a widespread, underground campaign of arabs, of muslims, where we cannot morally support president biden. >> so if not president biden, would you vote for former president trump? >> no. >> so who would you vote for? >> i would write in on the ballot, ceasefire. free palestine. >> even though that could potentially give the election to former president trump? >> if things don't change, then i have no choice. >> that's the key, and, you know, we were talking about how this is -- you said this is the issue that's going to matter the most in michigan for biden if he can -- if he can win it. what you said to dan, if things don't change, and you see

yesterday the administration sanctioning radical settlers in the west bank. you see a couple days ago, tony blinken talking about a palestinian state, that the united states just -- they unilaterally recognize the palestinian state which would be historic, but those are some of the things, aren't they? that biden is going to have to do between now and the election. >> absolutely. not only is there a large number of arab voters in michigan, but there are a lot of democratic voters in michigan who are sympathetic to -- to palestinians. >> right. >> and they're seeing what's going on and they're very angry about it. you have young voters in michigan and they are extremely important because college voters, you know, also helped put biden over the edge last time. there's a lot of anger on college campuses as well, and black voters are also very sympathetic to palestinians. so this isn't about being anti-israel.

people want to hear -- people in michigan and my family is from michigan. i spent some time there, quite a bit of time there actually over the holiday. people want to see the administration do more to prevent children from dying in gaza, okay? that's true all over the world, and people also want to hear more sympathy and more eke by napty from palestinians and you hear that over and over. it's about empathy. it's about respect, and people understand that joe biden is in a difficult position. >> mm-hmm. >> you don't hear on the ground in michigan a lot, you know, oh. forget about israel. they don't have a right to defend themselves. no. people want to hear that human rights for palestinians matter too. >> right. >> and so i think that this was maybe one step, but, you know, yesterday when biden was in michigan, you know, we didn't know for a long time where that event was going to be, which we think now was part of an attempt

to kind of avoid protests outside of those events, those campaign events. there have been protesters following biden campaign events, and so this is an ongoing problem, and it's becoming an increasing one within the democratic base. it's not just arab voters. it just could play an outsized role in michigan. >> right. i think a lot of people have been caught by surprise. a lot of democrats at least have been caught by surprise, and there's such a divide on this issue. there is. i'm not surprised because, you know, i saw it in congress years and years and years ago that -- that there were democrats who were solidly pro-israel and believed israel could do no wrong, and then there were half of the democrats who were pro-palestinian, not anti-israeli, but pro-palestinian, and you're starting to see this play out with young voters especially. obviously with arab americans in

michigan, and also just with the democratic base, whether it's -- whether it's black democrats, hispanic democrats, white democrats, woke, white, far-left democrats. there's just -- there's a whole collection of democrats that -- and it's about, i mean, it's always seemed to me about 50/50. it's something that biden is going to have to reconcile, and i think the keyword here is balance. there's going to have to be sort of -- a sense of balance toward the suffering palestinians, and the israelis for so many of these voters. >> well, exactly. the laws of military proportionalty, that's kind of what we're looking at in the big question that i think both sides can ask. the voters that you are talking about, those specifically progressives, the young people who are upset -- >> young voters. >> young voters. >> how do you thread that needle to placate that side and still

get those 5% to 6% of independents who skew more conservative that voted for biden that he has to have if he's going to win in michigan, in wisconsin, in arizona, and that's the question. you look at how the coverage of this has only been worse lately as i feel like more connectivity and people getting out of these, you know, zones. >> right. >> you look at just how horrible. i would encourage everyone to read in "the new yorker," dr. seema julani of the irc a pediatrician, and she gives a searing interview about what happened with the children, and the world has to did better getting supplies to those children. >> i was in georgia talking to voters last month, and when i was talking to black voters, the thing i kept hearing was, i'm struggling here. how can we afford to send bombs that are killing children? now that's a complicated

geopolitical situation, but that's what i'm hearing from voters. there's a disconnect as well about where america's energy is being placed and making sure that we support human rights for all. this is -- this is not an anti-israeli position. i wasn't hearing anti-semtism. i was hearing, how can we get involved in the middle east when there are -- >> people are very angry. coming up, an update on a group of asylum seekers accused of attacking new york city police officers in times square. we'll talk to the nypd's chief of patrol straight ahead on "morning joe." of patrol strauig "morning joe."

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yesterday we told you about a group of migrants who attacked two nypd officers over the weekend. the controversy around that, five suspects now arrested after the attack and released without bail. multiple sources familiar with the matter tell news 4 new york

four of those suspects have fled the state, boarding a bus to the california/new mexico border under false names. >> willie, who could have ever seen that coming? >> exactly. >> who could have ever seen that coming? i mean, seriously. the idiocy of it all. >> and now two more suspects have been arrested in connection to the attack. both charged with robbery, felony assault, but the d.a.'s office chose not to prosecute one of them citing a lack of evidence that that person was involved. the other was arraigned on $15,000 cash bail. kathy hochul is hardening her stance on the suspects outright calling for them to be deported. in response to a question on the assaults, she said, get them all and send them back, end quote. let's bring in nypd's chief of police, john shell, and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good morning to you both.

>> good morning. >> we saw the video of your officers being beaten right in the middle of times square. >> i was disgusted, angry. as a citizen who lives here, i'm thinking to myself, what happened? as a cop, i wish i could be there to help them, and as the chief of patrol, you know, how did we get here? why did this happen? we were up to 14 people versus two. 14 versus two. as you mentioned, seven arrested. one finally got bail, but the four that got arrested that day after cops got up and still did their job and they went in front of a judge and we don't understand why bail wasn't requested. but that doesn't mitigate that the judge could have looked at the circumstances. i don't know if she saw the video. we don't know yet, but she had the opportunity to step in and say, well, hold on a second. >> wait, but she knew that cops had been beaten up by these guys, right? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> she knew that and she still didn't hold them? >> apparently not, and now they

walk out the door. they're on a bus somewhere in america going somewhere right now. >> yeah. >> to add insult to injury to all of us, and we have a lot of people in new york city. they give us the finger on the way out the door. there is a host of issues we got to talk about, and it stops right here. >> do we know -- was bail requested and then the judge declined that or do we know how that played out? >> for the four that are arrested that day, bail was not requested, but the judge had an opportunity to obviously override that and say, nope. i'm going to remand you and we'll take it from there. was the video played in court? we don't know that answer, but it shouldn't matter. >> right. >> when four attacked two, and the, you know, we're the difference between good and evil here. that's not acceptable. >> we talked about this yesterday. this is the confluence of a lot of really bad events. you've got -- and the mayor said, you know, we've got a problem with illegal immigrants. you can't keep sending them our

way. we've got to take care of the border. house republicans don't want to pass that bill to do it, and then you've got, you know, you've got so-called bell reform that allows people to beat the hell out of cops and then walk, and then flee -- i mean, we've got to circle back. city council's got to step up. the governor's got to step up. a lot of people that have passed a lot of bad laws need to step up and fix the situation. >> you have, as the chief said, a confluence of issues here. you have the immigration issue, you have the border issue. you have the issue of bail reform which i say could be bail deform when people take advantage of the reform that many of us advocated, but when you get -- >> and by the way, you talked about this yesterday. we're talking about violence. >> exactly. >> let me just add on top of

that. violence against cops, against people who were supposed to protect new yorkers. at that point, come on. you're right. that's not reform. >> and as he can tell you, many of us fought to get more blacks and latinos on the force. so i mean, are we telling kids now, be a cop, but you can get your behind beat and we'll call it reform? no. reform is those that should be incarcerated or shouldn't be held because of financial reasons, but all the way from border patrol down, i think that the issues have to be dealt with, but none of them -- none of them justify beating policemen. >> right. >> this is not political. this is criminal. >> yeah. exactly. >> i think that as i said yesterday on the show, i have an office of national action network right in times square. this happened right near there. we cannot keep allowing -- i was in texas last night giving a

speech -- the abbotts of the world to keep sending migrants in here and not be dealing with that issue and then they get here, with all of the legitimate things we may disagree with, with some of the policing have in the middle of that civil debate, have this kind of thing going. i challenge a lot of my progressive friends. they need to step up like i have and say, wait a minute. this is not what we condone. >> it's not acceptable. >> chief, just watching that video, they're assaulting other people, like, any kind of assault. i mean, and then on top of it, obviously it's police officers. can you explain how reform that's taken place means that you can assault someone and then just kind of walk out without any consequences? >> can you explain how bail reform that's taken place means that you can assault someone and then just kind of walk out without any consequences? >> this was bail eligible. i think the bigger question is how do we get here?

i had 2200 cops assaulted last year or attempted to be assaulted. there are no consequences. there's no consequences. it's not a freebie to attack my cops. >> why are there not consequences? are the judges anti-cop? are the prosecutors not tough enough? why are there not consequences? >> this is what we feel. the good guys have become bad guys, and the bad guys have become victims. you know, this whole philosophy changed. bail reform is part of it. some legislative changes, some rule changes recently on our city council. it just seems like everything is against us, but we'll keep doing our job. we're trying to hold the city together. our communities with our cops are trying to hold the city together. it just seems like sometimes we're up against it. >> we're grateful for it.

i hope you know that. the bail reform five years ago took away judges' discretion. that has gotten incrementally better. judges at least can say, that person's dangerous. has it gotten better over the last five years, would you say? >> someone shouldn't sit in jail for a minor crime because they can't come up with $100. that's not fair. we ask the judges to say, hey, in this particular case, i'm taking you off the street. you're a danger to our community. the discovery laws thrust upon our d.a.'s office is really hurting them. the amount of paperwork they have to do on a case and their staffing levels down, they can't prosecute a case like they did in 2020. >> i want to ask you just

generally the level of support you're getting. we all remember the terrible tragedy of george floyd in 2020. the millions and millions of americans that went out and marched in protest. then unfortunately, the backlash against, it seems to me, all comes. the rev and i have talked about this for a long time, that because of that backlash against cops, an overreaction in most cases, it's actually neighborhoods where the new yorkers who are people of color are suffering the most. you look at the crime rates that have skyrocketed over the past four years, you look at the violence, the assaults

everything, it's in neighborhoods, for the most part, where people of color are predominantly living there. so i'm curious, are you starting to notice more support coming out of 2020 than you may have felt a year or two ago? i hear from cops all across america this has been a problem. are you seeing a slight change where you feel like your guys and women are getting a little more support? >> so the communities across the city, white, black, hispanic, those are the people that support us. they've known us for a long time. we're tight with all our communities. the fringe element that don't reside in the city, i think those are the ones you're talking about that constantly

attack us. but the home grown block association presidents, from east harlem to coney island to staten island to manhattan, they love us. that's the story here. the fringe is a different conversation, but the communities have always supported us, because we've worked together for years. >> rev, would you agree with that? you talk about people being so woke that they're kind of asleep at the switch. >> i think that the extremes on both sides of this argument get far more space than they should, extremes that are anti-police no matter how accountable police are, and the extremes in the police that would put a knee on someone's neck. i think what has to happen is those that are in the majority need to speak up.

when it's cops, say that's a bad guy, we're not supporting them. and in the community, especially when you're doing violence against cops, we need to step up and say, wait a minute, that's wrong. that hurts our community. >> what would be the warning to the city council or the governor or whatever it is, what would make your job easier and the city safer? >> change those bail reforms i just talked about. give the d.a.s a chance to do their jobs.

this affects our communities. there's a quality of life issue. if we get that done, we'll be back to where we should be. we're still the safest big city in the world. coming up, our friend chris matthews is here. ng up, our fri matthews is here

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my prayer, my hope is we continue to believe our best days are ahead of us, that as a

nation we continue to believe in honesty, decency, dignity and respect. we see each other not as enemies, but as fellow human beings, each made in the image of god, each precious in his sight. we leave no one behind. we believe everyone deserves a fair shot. we give hate no safe harbor. together we believe in america. that's my prayer, to remember who we are. we're the united states of america. there's nothing -- and i mean this sincerely -- nothing beyond our capacity, if we act together. >> we had tremendous success on "the apprentice." and when i ran for president, i had to leave the show. that's when i knew for sure i was doing it. and they hired a big, big movie star, arnold schwarzenegger, to

take my place. we know how that turned out. the ratings went right down the tubes. it's been a total disaster. and mark will never, ever bet against trump again. i want to just pray for arnold, if we can, for those ratings, okay? >> i mean, if you saw donald trump at those prayer breakfasts, it didn't get better. it wasn't like he did that, joked and then said, i want to talk to you today about the sermon on the mount and how it informed -- no! >> he can't. >> exactly. yeah. there is such a huge difference there. it's so obvious and so crazy. i know people, obviously, that have been going to the prayer breakfasts for decades and it's an important part of their lives. they said it was a nightmare for

those four years because donald trump was all about donald trump. he doesn't care where he is. he doesn't care about context. he's only going to tell his own story. it's also one of the amazing stories of the last eight years, is rising evangelical support for donald trump, despite everything we know about him personally, about his policies, about his character, the way he treats and talks about people. that is one of his strongest bases of support is the evangelicals. >> younger boys see their parents praising, idolizing a man who has been found guilty or found liable of sexually abusing a woman, of defaming a woman that a judge said he raped, a guy that's bragged about sexual assault on the "access hollywood" tape, a guy that does

illegal payoffs to porn stars at the height of the campaign and then insults her as a horse face, a guy who regularly trashes women, attacks them. he's done so to mika. he's done so to any woman that challenges him. that's what these families who are idolizing donald trump -- and it's straight out of jeremiah and worshipping idols. they've become worthless. they do that and they try to justify it on some like grievance. they don't even see in their own households their children seeing them, a mother and father who claim to be children of god, who are worshipping, praising and idolizing a rapist. >> it shows the deeper problem going on within the southern baptist church, the sexual abuse

scandal that they just let go for so many years. they finally started reckoning with it. it's a larger problem dealing with women, i think, in my opinion, the culture of submission. you and i both grew up in the baptist church. >> right. >> but the one thing i will say that i found to be just the worst thing that trump did when it came to christianity was, do you remember it was a tornado and he was autographing bibles? >> right. >> one of my family members who was a trump supporter, she admitted that was too much. >> yeah. the whole thing is too much. i mean, it is what it is. it's sad. it's pathetic. and it's having an impact. we're not just talking about the church. we're talking about an impact on young men and the examples that they're seeing in their household of a guy who, again, brags about sexually assaulting

women, a guy who a judge has said raped a woman. it's having an impact and it will have an impact for years to come, sadly. let's bring in to the conversation donny deutsch and chris matthews. we have breaking news on the economy. this economy -- we've been saying it for six months now -- it's just a crazy strong economy. the fed has tried to tamp it down, tried to throw water on it. it's just on fire. it continues red hot. >> this is a staggering number that just crossed. we're going to talk to andrew ross sorkin in just a moment. we'll give you the numbers first. the u.s. economy added 355,000 jobs last month, almost double the expectation. the expectation from experts was

180,000. the december number was revised up to 333,000. 15 million almost now jobs added since president biden took office. we're well over pre-pandemic. this isn't about the post pandemic recovery. this is about a growing economy. >> we're in february. the election is not until november. if we continue on this track, we've seen the numbers all keep going up, inflation coming down. most importantly, those university of michigan surveys on confidence of consumers are shooting up. these are the sort of things -- there's a separation in the polls between joe biden's approval ratings and what people are thinking about the economy. that goes away if this economy

keeps growing. >> logically, you're right. i look at what you were talking about before, the evangelical support for donald trump. it doesn't make any sense. i was up in new hampshire for all those days of the primary fight. i went out to a laconia event. he made sure to cover the entire state to give everyone a chance to come to a rally. i've never seen so many poor people in my life. i felt embarrassed to be middle class. they waited two hours. >> to see donald trump? >> yes. explain that. if you're worried about unemployment and getting a job, you should be happy people are getting jobs. it doesn't work that way. they resent the elite, the economic elite, the cultural elite especially. trump benefits from that. >> we had a union guy in michigan saying that he

supported donald trump because he thought he would fight for the working man. it's the antithesis of it. you look what he's done to unions. he's been at war with unions. you look at what he's done passing the biggest tax cuts ever for billionaires and multinational corporations. it doesn't seem to make sense. it does remind me, bobby kennedy also had that draw. i'm talking about the dad. working class people, black working class people, white working class people, they loved bobby kennedy. bobby kennedy got shot. one of the things that haunted the kennedys for years that they could never reconcile was, how did bobby kennedy voters go to george wallace? but they did. >> down and out. >> it's the same thing with trump voters. it doesn't make sense that bobby kennedy voters would go to

george wallace. doesn't make sense that poor, struggling americans would go to a billionaire who gives billionaires their biggest tax cuts ever and brags about it. >> just look at the money elon musk is getting. he profited because he said i reached this goal, give me the money, and he got the money. i think there's a lot of resentment against the people with wealth. i think those people out there are looking at the establishment, whether it's entertainment tv or any kind of television, these are the people who have got it made, and i don't have it made, and i'm going to vote for trump. it's a very interesting thing, but i think it's resentment. i think anger is the most important emotion of this election. young people, minority people, poor people, men not feeling like they're being spoken to. the gender gap now is so

extraordinary. it's something like 23 points. women will not vote for trump for a lot of good reasons, but the men are sticking with him. what's that about? why are men so angry? >> trump in 2016 got a lot of people voting for him because he was against the elites, against the establishment. growing up in the south, growing up in a culture where we did feel like, you know, the east coast elites always looked down on us, hollywood always made fun of us, politicians always mocked us. you just go down the list, resentment after resentment after resentment. here we are, though, eight years later, and donald trump has revealed himself time and time again. what i'm having a hard time figuring out is, how can

struggling working class americans still be drawn to a phony billionaire who only cares about himself and whose policies did nothing but hurt them over his four years in office? >> because there is a huge chunk of this population that is simply -- starting with poor people, as chris talked about, and disenfranchised young white men, if you tell them your plight is not your fault, it's the elites' fault, it's the banks' fault, then you don't have to look in a mirror, and you can blame someone other than yourself. if we look at the gdp that's on fire compared to the rest of the world, jobs, cooling inflation, the stock market, joe biden is doing a great job with this

economy. on top of that, he's done a great job with israel and nato and ukraine. joe biden has done a spectacular job with this economy. i want people to finally get that in their heads. yes, he is fighting against the disenfranchised poor and the angry young men. as far as from a macro level, joe biden has been tremendously successful. >> you know who else is saying that, willie? larry kudlow. our friend larry has said a couple of times now, hey, i was wrong, this economy is great. we've heard it from all quarters. when you have economists talking about the recession that's coming, talks about all the problems we're going to face and you have an economy that's been guided this way, you know, it's not all joe biden. you can look at the leadership of joe biden, you can look at the leadership of the fed

chairman powell, and you can look and see -- you know, we were talking about bill clinton in the break. bill clinton had a famous saying that if there was a turtle on top of a fence post, it didn't just get there by accident. you don't have an economy continuing to grow like this just because. we're so outpacing china right now. we're so outpacing our competitors with our economy. it's not even a close call. >> and we're post-pandemic. the united states far and away has had the strongest recovery from the pandemic. we're into real growth. it's undeniable. you can't look at another wall street record, a dow record, a nasdaq record, job growth records and say that the economy is bad. it's not. i know the people you're talking

about too, rich guys on wall street. how much money did you make today when the dow broke another record? there is a point, chris, at which the data becomes undeniable. >> there is a bifurcation where people are down and out and they don't have any jobs, and yet there's people in the country clubs who don't like biden. i've never seen a situation with a guy i've grown up with as a moderate democrat. he's not a lefty. he's for israel. he's for the middle class. he seems to understand the immigration problem. yet, they're acting like he's some lefty. how'd that happen? how did they get that image of him? >> we talk about it all the time, these guys that drive their porsches to the country club or drive out to the hamp

hamptons, they look at their stocks exploding and then they bitch and moan, oh, he's a socialist. oh really? this is unbridled capitalism. i'm sorry, we are crushing china, we are crushing russia, we are crushing all of our communist opponents. we are crushing the people donald trump worships. donald trump worships people with loser economies. he's embracing losers. american capitalism right now is crushing it. our military right now is stronger than it's ever been. since 1945, relative to the rest of the world, crushing it. and yet, what's good for america, republicans have admitted, is bad for donald trump. think about that. what's good for america, a

secure border. republicans say, bad for donald trump. a strong economy. republicans say, bad for donald trump. he wants a depression. he admitted it on tv. >> then the question becomes these wealthy people, these suburban people who just go, oh, joe biden as they're getting richer and richer. you know what it is? it's soft racism. i believe it's still a reaction to barack obama and having a black president in this country. >> what's your clue to that? how does that work? >> it's just talking to people. it's things they say. they never liked obama. they couldn't give a reason they didn't like obama. there's a soft racism that is a lot of the underbelly of people who go, oh biden, because biden is a democrat. democrats mean more fairness

across more groups of people. >> everybody time somebody says, oh, america's racist, whatever, i think about the fact that barack obama, i think, is the only democrat to get a majority vote. i understand what you're saying, but barack obama won two landslide elections. i just don't think people in iowa one day said, you know what, i voted for the black guy twice, but now i'm a bigot. i understand what you're saying. >> i'm talking about this group we're referring to. >> the group we're talking about is still going to vote for biden, college educated people who are rich. the problem democrats have is they cannot attract rural voters, the voters making minimum wage who haven't seen their wages rise with inflation. the rich people have gotten richer. we can talk about how stocks are

doing better and the economy is great, but if the worker is not feeling it in their paycheck, it's meaningless. >> elise, you look at rural america from coast to coast. it is a desert for democrats. it is a political desert. you get out into rural america and all across the country democrats get crushed, don't they? >> think about why they are getting crushed. what part of the message is not resonating with those voters who used to be reliable democratic voters? >> i'm worried about this and i think about it. >> what is it? >> between the lines of what i've been saying and why i've been concerned about this anger between young people, rural people, poor people, evangelicals, i think they're going to vote and vote with passion this november. the democrats offset that with

the black vote and the minority vote in the big cities and the pro-abortion vote in the suburbs. they're going to have to match it. i think it's going to be really close. >> what do democrats do, though, moving forward? you look what bill clinton did in rural communities. it was incredible. you look what barack obama did, which was genius. he would go into counties. democrats would lose 80-20. he would go, i know i'm going to lose the county, but i'll lose it 60-40. and he won iowa. >> whether there's a deal or not, he has to do what needs to be done. almost all americans say, you can't have this flow of illegal immigrants and call yourself a country. he has got to deal with that. he can't blame it on the republicans because they don't want to play ball because of clinton. he's got to deal with it as president. he can't say i hold hands with the bad guys and do it and blame

it on them. he has to do it. >> that is the one issue. if he does an executive order or some grand, important gesture to help immigration, to close up those borders, it will mean everything for him. people are waiting for him to step up and use that fist and do what needs to be done. >> you look at what joe biden could do, illegal immigration at 50-year lows under barack obama and joe biden. it exploded under donald trump. continued exploding in the biden administration. say, yeah, we have a problem, and we've had a problem since donald trump came into office and we need to end it. i completely agree. i'd love to see him go to the border. >> huge issue. even the exit polling from new hampshire showed it was with the economy, maybe even a little more important to voters in new hampshire. the interesting thing is that he's been given this gift by house republicans, which is the high ground on immigration. so they're saying we don't want

a deal. he's saying, i'm there working on this deal with guys in the senate. we're trying to get something done. it's actually you republicans who won't help me do something about the border. >> but will that help him if it doesn't get done? if the deal is broken by donald trump -- and it will be, i think -- what's he going to do? he has to act, and i think he has to act affirmatively. i look at what happened with the cops being beaten. everybody's going to see that picture. it's front page of the "new york post." the guy giving the finger to somebody in the lockup room, what are we talking about? these are illegally in this country, and they have no sense of authority that these cops are actually important people, that they deserve to be treated like important people. well, who wants to root for those four guys? >> right. >> not just those guys. there's a billion dollars coming out of the new york city budget

to house immigrants being taken away from teachers and cops. i don't care your politics. you live in new york and you hear that, the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. >> here's the great irony of this discussion. we're talking about stopping illegal immigration. the fact is, we need more immigrants in this country. ronald reagan said it best in his final speech. i will tell you, you don't have to go back and look at a speech from ronald reagan on january 19th, 1989. just talk to a family restaurant that can't find enough workers. talk to the hardware store on main street. talk to business owners, small business owners. they need workers. a lot of them need immigrants, legal immigrants. this isn't an anti-immigrant argument. republicans, like the wall

street journal editorial page still is, they say we need legal immigrants in this country working. >> figure out the work visa program. it's such a mess. and talk about asylum. the program is being so abused that people in desperate need of asylum are just languishing in the system. so something has to be done. biden needs to act by executive order if he does not get anything from congress. >> asylum needs to mean political asylum, not economic asylum. let me tell you something. you come across the border because the economy is bad in your country. okay. well, get in line with the tens of thousands of people across the world that are trying to bring their families from pakistan or from poland or from across the world, trying to bring their families to america legally. >> and are working their way through a system. >> exactly.

>> right. >> people wait in line, fill out the forms and they come into the country and they've memorized the constitution. they've done everything right. everybody says, welcome. this thing that's happened today, i speak about politics. iconically, i go by the pictures, what they look like. this thing in new york the other day is terrible. it's going to be everywhere in the country. those four guys are bums. they were kicking the cop who's down. what's the point of that? you're the boss. who are you? >> and then the system lets them go. >> that's the thing. they got let out. >> it's the perfect storm of the border crisis and law and order and how that's hurting democrats in the cities, because there are

plenty of minority voters who don't like some of the more lenient policies that have made their communities less safe. you can be for criminal justice reform, but you can also be for, if you beat the hell out of cops, you're going to do some jail time or have to pay bill. >> that is the most detrimental video that democrats will ever see. >> it doesn't have to be. if i were in the biden white house, i'd be saying, this is why we need house republicans to stop worrying about donald trump and start worrying about americans and start worrying about cops and start helping us fix the border crisis. >> keep fentanyl out of the country. the list goes on and on and on. >> they should visit the families of those police officers and show some respect. >> chris matthews, donny deutsch, always great to have you here. andrew ross sorkin is going to join us in just a moment.

>> look at the walk. it's bill clinton in los angeles at the convention. >> wow! >> that's powerful. >> he's going to talk us through these incredible new job numbers, 353,000 added. plus, we are just moments away from larry david and susie essman. e essman but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

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sandra smith, so you're writing, texts me early in the morning all kinds of bad news, you know? >> who else am i going to talk to about the economy? >> i mean, mea culpa, i was wrong about the slowdown in the recession. >> i don't think you were wrong. >> well, the fed, everyone was wrong. >> i've got to say in larry's

defense almost everyone was wrong, thought the economy was going to crash, thought we were going to have recession, bumpy landing. everybody was saying, well, a smooth landing is not possible. maybe it's real possible. let's bring in the chief proponent of apple's new headgear that he says will make your life, quote, more vibrant. ladies and gentlemen, andrew ross sorkin. >> it does blow you away, but the jobs numbers are also blowing you away too. >> i want to talk about these apple goggles or whatever they are. you said that the imagery, 3d imagery on these things, so good that if you have these on, you don't have to even look at your own family. >> i did not say that part. none of that is true.

what is true is it is so shockingly amazing when you're inside this thing. by the way, it's heavy. it's version one. there's a lot of challenges to it. but when you're in there, you feel like you are seeing the future. >> this is like a "south park" episode. >> i'm telling you, first of all you don't feel like you're inside of anything, because it's almost pass-through, meaning, i'm looking at all of you in the same vibrancy as live. >> couldn't you just look at each other without the goggles? >> except, then they can layer on all sorts of things. >> what you're saying is, if our children are in front of us, we can put this on and not have to focus on our children as much? >> the use case, i think -- >> hold on, hold on. >> the use case is going to be for people who are doing work, i

could actually see people at an office using this instead of screens. and if you're by yourself, that's when you might watch a movie, if you're on a trip or something like that. if you're with your family, you should be watching the movie all together. it does separate you from that experience. i'm not saying that part's good. i'm just saying, when you think about the future of technology -- by the way, it's super expensive, $3500 for this device. i'm not sure millions are going to buy this thing tomorrow. but you know how these things are. flat screen plasma tvs cost $10,000. now they cost much less. call me in five years. >> willie, we're always talking about how we're depressed. you'll go into restaurants and you'll see a family that's all on their phones.

in the future, everybody is going to have their goggles on. >> like on a romantic date, watching a movie. i have a general rule that you trust apple. they've led us to the future. they don't invest this much money in something that's generally speaking, not going to work out. i also have a pretty good gut instinct of things that maybe just don't make sense. but maybe when this gets cheaper and lighter. >> i don't want people to retreat deeper into their caves, but the use case for it and the technology for it, it's just a better screen. think about it like that. it's a better screen. >> that blocks you from humanity. so let's see if this works. i'm fascinated. let's talk about the jobs. >> that's a blowout. if you are at the white house today, they should get an editor to start cutting commercials

basically immediately. also then you have the issue of wages up. this isn't hang happening on thk of the employees. >> what's driving this? we've been talking about this for nine months. what is driving the resiliency of the economy? >> part of it is consumer spending . i don't know if this is a bit of a yolo effect. people are spending more money, both on experiences and goods, in a way that is a fundamental shift. the travel part hasn't stopped. people are still doing it. so there's that much more money in the economy. i will say there was one little piece of data in there that wasn't as great, which was,

actual hours worked was down marginally. i imagine if you're down in mar-a-lago, you may tee off of this. even though wages went up, if you're working less hours, people can be making less. all in all, it's a good thing. pretty, pretty good. >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. coming up next, larry david and susie essman join us live to talk a tonight final season of "curb your enthusiasm." they are looking pretty, pretty good. ♪♪

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antibiotics. >> antibiotics. >> that gives men breasts. >> larry could grow breasts. >> the thought of larry with breasts -- >> pretty, pretty, pretty cute. >> yes, it is back, the 12th and final season of "curb your enthusiasm," a series that's been nominated for 51 emmys over the years, premiers this sunday. >> we may have won, what, two? >> it's not a good record. >> you know what you are? you are the new york jets of television awards. >> geez. >> that is cold, joe! >> whoa. >> what a sick, sick man. >> a sick, sick, mr. president,

a sick what? >> don't make me say it. >> that's some introduction, huh? >> larry david and, of course, the great susie essman are here. can we start with this being the last season? first of all, is it really the last season? >> i resent that. i resent the tone. what, i'm a liar now? >> it was wishful thinking. how are you feeling if it really is? >> first of all, i saw myself at the screening of the first episode the it was a big screen. i thought, first of all, this guy should be in a nursing home. people have to watch this? that's it. >> what are you going to do if you retire, though?

>> he's not going to retire, come on. >> what are you going to do? >> there's plenty, plenty to do, okay? i do a lot of charity work. >> seriously. >> pro bono is his middle name. [ laughter ] >> have you not retired once already? like, wasn't there already a last -- >> what does retire mean? >> i remember going to the 1984 who farewell tour, right? >> yeah. >> and the 1987 who farewell tour. >> no. he's saying this is it for curb your enthusiasm." he's not saying for life. >> he'll be back. >> no, he won't. >> are you always accompanied by susie, who translates for you? >> i've never been accompanied by her, but i like it. >> does she pick you up at the assisted living facility?

>> i'm right there with him. >> talk about the journey? >> the journey? >> it's extraordinary. i remember watching back in 2000 and going, you know, this is really funny. i like it, but this is going to last like six weeks. >> by the way, that's exactly what my cousin arlene said after the first episode aired. she called me up and said, i happen to like it. >> happen. >> i like it. >> nobody else did. >> i happen to like it. >> and i like "mind of the married man," but neither of these are going to last more than six weeks. >> it's crazy. we didn't know it was going to last this week, but we're happy it did. >> why did it last this long? >> because he's really funny. it was original and interesting and nothing like it's ever been done before, and i don't think anything like it will ever be done again? >> can you talk about how scenes

come about? >> you mean the improv? >> it's so fascinating. larry's not going like this every night. >> you could ask willie geist, who experienced it. >> i got to see it up close. >> before you say anything, can i just say you were so amazingly good and not just for a news person, for like an actor you were amazing. >> i will say about the process -- and jeff shaffer is here too, who's the executive producer and director and everything. the process is kind of an outline that you're given. you know where it's headed eventually, but the process of getting there is incredibly, otherworldly funny people finding ways to get you there. larry, of course, is hysterically funny. but jeff will come and lean in and say, why don't you try that?

it's so natural and organic, then somehow at the end it turns into a tv show. >> there's no dialogue written. willie made up all his own dialogue. all that filth that comes out of my mouth is all mine. >> joe referred to it when he was talking about watching the first season, the amazing number of shows that you've had over these years that most of the shows actually reflect things that happened to most people during their ordinary life, during the course of a day, you know, something pisses them off and they don't react. you react on the show, and it's funny. >> the character, for me, is an alterego really. he's my hero, that guy. i love that guy. >> nobody else does, but he does. [ laughter ] >> i do.

>> so you've heard about tv's own willie geist being a great actor. let's take a look. >> i want to tell you a story. my whole life i hated strawberries. >> strawberries? >> hated them, wouldn't eat them, couldn't eat them. then one day i had a fresh strawberry right from the ground. changed my life. i was judging strawberries, but i didn't know the strawberry. it's like people, willie. you don't really know them until you taste them. >> that's great, larry. thank you so much. i think we have what we need on the strawberries. >> is that good? how about the boysenberry? >> there's a lot of fruit. i see us going all the way down the produce aisle. i'm going to stop you there. it's not interesting. i had a boboysenberry. >> vermont, new hampshire? they're big on boysenberries over there. >> enough with the fruit. >> we cannot provide any context

about why we were talking about boysenberries. >> i think one of the reasons willie was so good at the improv is because you here used to sitting here with these people talking, having an inane conversation every day. [ laughter ] >> for instance, right now i'm thinking, because we have no scripts here, how the hell am i going to get larry to say something interesting? i've given up, so i go to you. >> improv, on your feet. >> susie, how much fun has it been? >> oh god, we have so much fun, don't? we laugh all day. funniest, jef shaeffer, the funniest stuff for me. >> it's really hard for me to get through a scene with her. she makes me laugh, and i always have to in the middle of the scene, i have to put my hand up like this. okay. okay. >> that's only because you love

being yelled at. >> i love being yelled at. >> i love being cursed and yelled at. anytime that anybody on the show ever curses me, i always laugh. we had a show with a wrestler, and i was shooting -- his kids were in the backseat and i was following them in the car. it was just the car in front of me and there were kids in the backseat and i started shooting at them like that. the kids were shooting back. and then the wrestler stopped the car and he came over to the window. my god, i couldn't -- i couldn't breathe i was laughing so hard. you remember phillip eckerhall. >> yes, fabulous. >> all that guy had to do was look at me, okay? and i couldn't -- i couldn't act with him. >> he always played the doctor. >> dr. morris. yeah. >> larry likes to be yelled at, particularly by susie. let's watch a little clip of an upcoming scene from this season where they get in a big fight over cheese. >> what are you looking for?

>> i'm looking for the cheese. >> it's gone. >> what do you mean? >> i ate it. >> it's not your cheese. it's my cheese. >> you left it here for a day. >> i left it here to pick it up. i told you i was going to pick it up later or tomorrow. this is tomorrow. >> it was in my refrigerator, and i believe possession is 90% of the law. >> what's the other tenth? is that the other tenth of the law? >> maybe. >> if i took a nap on your kouchl, could you go through my pockets and roll me over like a drunk? >> you make such a big magila over nothing. >> it's not over nothing. i went all the way to beverly hills to pick up that cheese. >> he's complaining that the von der dank is gone. >> good cheese. >> you had it too? >> a sand with itch. >> a melt, i made him a melt. >> it's very simple. >> you don't eat the cheese. >> no. >> possession is 9/10 of the law. >> i am right like 99% of the

time on this show. i'm on the right side. >> you are, i agree. >> my moral compass is set correctly. >> that's what we always think. trump has the wrong moral compass. we need a leader more like larry david. so you really think there is a separation between you and this character? >> oh, for sure, yeah. >> do people around you think there's a separation? >> i am around him, and i will say, yes, very much so. absolutely. >> who can walk around like that? >> who are you, his public defender? sweet jesus. >> look, in the show, he is completely -- he is completely confrontational in the show. in real life, this is mr. no confrontation. >> oh, really? >> so you're saying he's passive aggressive? >> you know what, joe, i find you're being hostile right now. >> larry, i want to talk about the characters. you say a lot of people are exaggerations of their natural self, and certainly you, susie,

just sort of exaggerations, and so it's fun and it's natural, but you told me when we were talking before in l.a. that leon is completely different, and you talk about like not being able to hold it together. you say sometimes when you guys are going at it, it is like almost impossible for you to not start laughing! incredible. >> first of all, excuse me, it's just a lung situation. >> that's all right. >> don't worry about it. >> no, i'm not. call the paramedics. [ laughter ] >> here's the thing, see, we're doing this extension of ourselves, really, but this guy is doing a completely different character, and he's making this stuff up in a different character. >> and crazy stuff. >> and crazy stuff. >> crazy stuff. the craziest stuff, and as i'm

acting, i'm going, oh, my gosh. he's a magician this guy. he's really something. >> and how tough is it going to be for you to move away from curb? >> you know, we finished shooting last march, you know, we haven't shot -- >> do you miss it? because everybody came loved doing what they did. >> yeah, i miss being with my pals, you know, we have -- we've all been together a long time. and we're all very close, so i miss that. i miss hanging out with my buddies. >> i got to say that sounds insincere. larry's not even trying to fake it. i asked larry, he goes, no, i'm not going to miss it. >> i'm not going to -- no. >> you miss me. >> this is like a farewell of friends where they're all crying or something. >> because they're lying, they're cashing the check and going home. >> it's kind of incredible you never got canceled. you did the most -- i mean, that veterans episode, i was like ooh, larry's really -- you can't

make fun of -- and you served too, so you had a lot of sensitivity i guess, but -- >> yes. but what episode do you think pushed the line the most? >> there's been a lot. >> boy. >> i think the reason why it's never been canceled is because larry's making fun of himself in it, so he's not -- it's not coming out like this is the reality. >> by the way, i welcome a cancellation. welcome it with open arms, please, cancel. >> just pay me. >> cancel me, pay me out. >> cancel, yeah. >> larry, i've got to ask you, jerry has been out talking about some kind of a "seinfeld" reunion, something. what's he talking about? you guys should be in touch more. so nothing going on there? >> no. >> nothing you're aware of. >> no. >> anything else you'd like to talk about? is there anything in this deposition -- >> do we have to talk about politics? >> do you want to talk about politics? >> no. >> then why did you bring it up? >> that's your show, joe.

you know what this show is about? >> what? >> politics. >> this is the fourth hour, isn't it? >> it is. >> you can tell. >> you can tell. >> you do this for four hours a day? seriously, four hours a day? >> he was falling asleep, yeah. [ laughter ] >> exactly. i do want to say this seriously. first of all, mika can't be here, she's with her daughter who's celebrating a birthday. she loves you guys so much. >> can i ask a question, how old is her daughter? >> 28. >> so she has to be -- it's not like she's 12 and she's celebrating a birthday and you have to be there. 28, she's an adult. >> almost sounds like -- >> she didn't really want to be here i think. >> tell them that my daughter's birthday. >> okay. >> who do you think you're talking to? >> it was the best excuse i could come up with. which reminds me actually because they've written about

you, attacking you on musk, so ari emanuel is having a wedding and this is going until 2:00, this is going until 3:00, mika and i, we're not out past 7:30. we eat, larry insulting elon musk, i get up to leave. i go hey, i'm going to leave, and larry goes i'm supposed to be the rude one. i'm the one that's supposed to leave early. >> i couldn't believe you were going to beat me out the door there. >> by about five hours. >> it was very impressive. >> i think it's very impressive that you made walter isaacson's book about elon musk. you made history, going up and attacking elon. >> you know, he was sitting at our table. joe was at the table. >> what's that? excuse me, i didn't hear you. >> yeah, no. what? >> poor thing, you're coughing. you can't hear. >> you're wondering why this is the last -- you're not wondering anymore. >> so i want to try to be nice again, so i'm sorry i brought

up -- >> yes, darling. >> i'm sorry i brought up the birthday that threw you off. we've had such an incredible reaction and response to you all coming on the show. >> a state visit. >> you guys are so beloved, and willie, i know you've heard it too. mike, you've heard it. we've all heard, oh, my gosh, you guys are going to have larry and sue. you mean so much to so many people. we don't hear that often. >> we love you guys, if there was the funny story i was trying to get on the show. i called larry to do my sunday show. he called me to decline that offer. he said nobody wants to hear me, but you are coming on later in a couple of months. i don't know if you know that. i said what if you did something on my show, and it was one of the biggest thrills of my professional life! how great that you got in before it's canceled. >> i know, and it turned out to be the last season. thank you, guys.

>> so we love you guys. >> we love you too. we watch you every morning -- well, i don't know about him. i watch you every mortgage. >> yes, i watch. >> we don't live together so i don't know what he's watching in the morning. >> we're being yelled at. we're told we have to go. >> there's another show. it's only been four hours. >> would you like to talk about muppets or anything before we go? >> muppets. >> oh, boy. >> curb your enthusiasm, returns for its 12th and final season. this sunday, 10:00 eastern on hbo. of course streaming on max. larry david, susie, thank you, guys, great to see you. >> that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports" a final home coming, the president preparing for the most solemn of presidential traditions this morning, being there as fallen troops return t