he may have some issues financially? >> he certainly does. i mean, he says he's one of the wealthiest men in the country, in the world, so clearly that's not accurate. >> catherine christian, as always, thank you so much. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports". on national wear red day, i'm clearly wearing red, wearing red to support the american heart association's go red for women movement in the fight against the number one killer of women, heart disease and stroke. and remember to follow the show on social media @mitchellreports and you can rewatch the best parts of the show on youtube. just go to msnbc.com/andrea. "chris jansing reports" will start in a second, but don't forget to watch kristen welker on "meet the press." kristen welker has the speaker of the house. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪ good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. today will mark a moment to

honor three u.s. service members killed in jordan as they arrive back in the u.s. for a final time. president biden among those attending the dignified transfer of their bodies home to their loved ones. we'll bring you that moment later in the show. plus, can the most ambitious immigration deal in recent memory survive the scorched earth politics of an election year? that test now just days away as senate negotiators prepare to release the details of that agreement with the first vote expected early next week. closing arguments could be all that's left of the landmark trial of jennifer crumbley charged in connection with her son's shooting rampage in 2021. attorneys grilling the mom who they insist never sought help, despite her son telling her, quote, the thoughts won't stop. we'll have the latest coming up. but we begin in delaware where the bodies of three service members, sergeant william rivers, sergeant kennedy

sanders, and sergeant breonna moffett are being brought home to the united states, all three were killed in a drone attack in jordan last weekend. later this hour, the solemn event known as the dignified transfer of their bodies will take place at dover air force base. they'll be met with their families loej with officials that include president biden, the first lady, defense secretary lloyd austin, and joint chiefs chairman charles brown. aaron gilchrist is there. explain what we'll be seeing and of course the importance of this. >> reporter: chris, you know, this has to be a heavy day for the families that are here. they made the trip from georgia with army escorts to be here for this dignified transfer to receive the remains of their loved ones who were killed overseas last weekend. as you noted, president biden arrived here in the last hour. our understanding is that he is meeting with these three families now, he and the first lady along with some of the

defense department senior leaders as well. the president in these sorts of situations has been a person who wants to hold hands and comfort people who are experiencing a loss like this, and in this case, he is also carrying the gratitude of a nation as the commander in chief thanking these families for their service and for their loved ones' service as well. the dignified transfer will happen, we expect, near the bottom of the hour. cameras are being allowed. the families agreed to that to record the moment, though we will not see it live. and in will be -- we'll see a team of people in uniform, soldiers going to this -- the back of this plane to remove these transfer cases that are draped in american flags, place them inside vehicles that will then take them to the mortuary building here at dover air force base. it will be a very quick moment, but one that is so important and poignant for these families who will be here to witness this last trip of their loved ones as

members of the united states military, a moment they are agreeing to share with the rest of the nation, chris. >> nbc's aaron gilchrist, thank you. and we will wait for the dignified transfer, and we will bring you that as soon as we have more. there is new reporting today that president biden's anger with former president trump over the military issue has led biden to view the former president as loathsome. that's from our "way too early" host jonathan lemire who writes that the president is furious for what he sees as trump disrespect, even mocking the sacrifices of fallen soldiers. biden has become increasingly critical, even profane when describing the former president behind closed doors, with some of that anger spilling out during a recent speech in south carolina. >> donald trump when he was commander in chief, refused to visit cemetery, u.s. cemetery outside of paris for fallen american soldiers, and he referred to those heroes, and i quote, as suckers and losers.

he actually said that. he said that. how dare he say that. how dare he talk about my son and all officers like that. look, i call them patriots and heroes. the only loser i see is donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] >> it comes at a time when trump and republicans are going after biden for his middle east policies, a new cnn poll shows that biden's handling of the israel-hamas conflict is the number one concern for 5% of democratic voters and 9% of democratic voters under 45. i want to bring in admiral james stavridis, an msnbc analyst. michael steele, an msnbc political analyst. admiral, you know better than anyone. war stirs up deep emotions. it can cause great divides and

while military decisions are made to keep americans safe, is a shift in america's public stance towards israel that we have been seeing incrementally the longer this war goes on, could it influence u.s. policy and support for israel? >> i think it could. however, my own sense is the support for israel broadly speaking remains very, very strong. people are, however, reacting to the force, the strength, the incredible number of casualties among civilians in gaza. the israelis, i think, are increasingly mindful of that. e those casualty rates have declined 80% or more over the last several weeks, partly that's due to the nature of the operations, chris, partly it's due to pressure from the u.s. administration and partly it's due to israel's recognition that

it will lose support, most importantly in the united states if they don't alter course and spend more time avoiding civilian casualties. >> michael, look, 5%, 9% may not sound like much, but those numbers, that percentage of voters unhappy with how biden is handling the most important issue to them is significant if this race ises a close as the polls suggest it might be. we saw in michigan, for example, where biden only won by about 150,000 votes. protesters, some of them holding a sign that said genocide joe. is there anything joe biden can do to regain their support short of brokering an end to this conflict or publicly walking away from israel, which no one expects? >> i think to the admiral's point, you're seeing the administration begin to make the appropriate moves and to put in play the various pressure points to move netanyahu closer to a

two-state solution conversation. look, 5%, 9% number displeased, at this point in the campaign, you take note of it, and you begin to put in place the tracks you need to not have that number go up. that's the key thing. you don't want that number to become 29%. and so i think it's important that the administration with the president's voice in the conversation with clarity on the fact of supporting israel for sure, but also recognizing the humanitarian impact of the current policy that israel is executing on and the need to move israel off of that to something that's more stabilizing in the region, and i think again to the admiral's point, that's something you're going to see the administration continue to do over the next weeks and months. but i don't think that number is going to be dispositive how the

election is going to turn when it comes to the middle east question november at this point. >> i want to dig in, michael, if i can to today's reporting from jonathan lemire because it does show a level of personal animosity. the president has described trump to long-time friends and close aides as a sick expletive who delights in others misfortunes according to three people. according to one of the people who has spoken of the president, biden has recently said of trump, what another expletive guy. candidate who is don't like each other isn't anything new, we can agree on that, but this is very personal and very deep, and i wonder against an opponent for whom there have never been any boundaries, right, with donald trump, could channelling this anger actually help joe biden? >> you know, there are two things to take away from this

reporting by jonathan. the first is this is a conversation he had with private friends, among friends. he wasn't standing at a podium as we've seen donald trump do in recent weeks and profanely describe others, and aspects of this election. that's one. number two, donald trump is given credit and props for speaking for maga. well, guess what? joe biden speaks for the rest of us. so i'm not -- i don't have a problem with that characterization because i think it's accurate personally. so the fact that the president feels this way i think is a reflection of how a lot of americans feel, and he speaks for a lot of americans in that regard. so it's not a public statement. it's not, you know, said from the presidential podium. it is a conversation he's had with others. those others chose to share that with as a source for jonathan. that's okay. but i'm not all worked up about

it. in fact, i'm like, okay, thank you. you just confirmed for me what i think and a lot of americans think that way. so if donald trump can speak for maga, i think it's okay for joe biden to speak for the rest us. >> admiral, i don't usually ask you about politics but at least not directly, but this is someone whose own chief of staff john kelly confirmed that trump described dead u.s. service members as losers and suckers because there was nothing in it for them. can that person in your view be trusted to effectively lead the u.s. military, especially at such a dangerous time? >> i think anyone who has served in the military -- and by the way, john kelly is a lifelong friend of mine. we served together as junior officers. as you probably know, john kelly lost a son in combat, and he knows that his son is not a sucker. his son is not a loser. the president's son beau biden

served very honorably in combat. later died of cancer in walter reed in the nation's military hospital correctly so, at the end of the day those kind of comments in my view will hurt donald trump significantly with the military, with veterans, and with retirees. i say this as a proud retiree 37 years in the armed forces, we are not suckers. we are not losers. we are patriots. >> and i don't want to conflate the political fight with what we're seeing today, but i don't want to let you go either, admiral, without asking you because it is important to honor those who have made ultimate sacrifice to protect their country, why is what we're going to see in perhaps the next hour at dover so important? >> because it brings home to

every american who watches it the sacrifice that these volunteers have made. we don't have a draft. we don't conscript. the men and women who serve in our armed forces do so willingly. they raised their hand to support and defend the constitution of the united states. they stand on a wall to defend us, and when they give that last full measure, we should all stand and honor them. that's why it's important that it be televised. that's why it's important that the commander in chief joe biden and dr. jill biden, his wife, be there with those families. >> and that is exactly why we will have it in its entirety when it is made available for us. admiral james stavridis, thank you. michael steele, you're going to stick around. we've got more to talk to you about. in 60 seconds, the senate has a deal, what we know about the bipartisan border compromise and the uncertainty future for

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you would say that. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. we have breaking news in former president donald trump's election interference case in georgia. fulton county d.a. fani willis has just filed a response to those accusations that she and her lead special prosecutor have been engaged in an improper relationship and mishandled public money. nbc's blayne alexander is reporting from the courthouse in atlanta. also with us, kristy greenberg, a former federal prosecutor. blayne, what exactly did willis have to say in this response that we have been waiting to hear? >> reporter: we have been waiting a long time to hear this, chris, and i've got to say that i'm still making my way through this. we're talk about 176 pages. that's how long the response is. that includes a number of exhibits. i just got it just a few minutes

ago. we do know that just as i'm kind of thumbing through here, i'm looking at some of the exhibits, and they include things that kind of point to the accolades of nathan wade, for instance, some of his credentials. we also see a couple of receipts in here. i also see what appears to be some of the notes that we know she's received, some of the hate mail, some of the threatening words with racist language in it. all of that is attached as exhibits, and so all of this really kind of points to the fact, though, that fani willis is mounting what we expected to be and what we now see is a very strong pushback and a very vigorous defense of these allegations against her. they've been hanging out there for three weeks saying she financially benefitted from hiring nathan wade as her lead special prosecutor, that the two were having a romantic relationship, and so what has been filed today, remember thrks this is the deadline, the court ordered final day for her to respond. she put a lot of effort into pushing back against these claims. we do know, again, that she spoke out about this indirectly during a martin luther king day

ceremony defending nathan wade and it appears that she is continuing to do some of that here. i'm looking through, i'm seeing screen shots of facebook posts, certainly a strong defense as we make our way through this filing. >> all right, kristy, i am getting from fortunately some people who have not had to go on the air immediately some summaries of things that they've looked through. let me give you a little bit a sense of some of the things that fani willis said. she said there's no financial conflict of interest, and to set this up for folks, the accusation, part of the accusation against her was that she hired someone with whom she was having a romantic relationship that he received hundreds of thousands of dollars. he was paid to be the special prosecutor in this case, and that they took vacations together. they stayed in hotels potentially together, that they both received some financial benefit from. this d.a. willis said she had no financial conflict of interest,

no personal conflict of interest, but adds that justifies her disqualification personally or that a fulton county district attorney -- that fulton county district attorney's office and that the attacks on special prosecutor wade's qualifications are factually inaccurate, unsupported and malicious. at least what i'm reading here does not directly say there is no relationship. what she's saying is it did not create a personal conflict of interest, nor does it speak to the fact that she believes that he is qualified to hold this position. is that what you hear from wla what i'm reading? >> so i have not had the opportunity to look at this filing yet, but what i will be looking for -- look, i'm not surprised that she would make the argument that she should not be disqualified, even if there were a personal relationship. it's not clear that would merit her disqualification, so i'm not surprised she's taking that position, nor would it at all

mean the dismissal of the indictment. any personal relationship that she was having has nothing to do with the merit of the charges themselves. so again, not surprising she's taking a strong view of that. the one thing when i do read the submission that i'm going to be looking for is i'd like to better understand when she says that the attacks on special prosecutor wade's qualifications are factually inaccurate and unsupported. as i understand it, the allegations are that he has scant, if any experience prosecuting major cases, major felony cases. that is -- that seems to be undisputed based on reporting beyond what has been alleged by one of the defendants in this case. so again, it's not clear to me how he would be qualified to be the lead prosecutor on what is certainly the biggest case that has ever come out of that district attorney's office if

he's never prosecuted a major felony case before. so that is what i'm going to be looking for as i review her submission. >> but it's two very different like avenues right here, one is the personal avenue and whether or not this relationship is appropriate, whether it influenced, right? the other whether or not he is qualified. what we do know is that he was appointed back in november of 2021, the day before he first filed for divorce, and since becoming special prosecutor, he billed the county for more than $654,000 in legal fees, which makes him one of the highest paid prosecutors in georgia. he works in private practice, has been an informal adviser to willis. beyond that, what is important in terms of whether or not -- determining whether or not he is qualified to hold this position? >> well, i think they go hand in hand. if you determine that he's unqualified to hold the

position, then it necessarily begs the question of why he has the position, which then goes to the personal relationship. but again, even if he is not somebody who would be the most qualified, you know, is he based on his experience as a defense attorney, based on his, you know, other experience just as a trial attorney, does he bring other attributes that led her to believe he could contribute to the team, i think it would be very hard to make an argument that he was so unqualified that he should be disqualified from the case. again, i don't think either of them would be disqualified nor would the indictment ultimately be dismissed, which is what this is really about. for me at least, the question having been a prosecutor, knowing how hard that job is and knowing the learning curve i think just more of a judgment call and really trying to understand fani willis's judgment call here as to why she would pick somebody who has no

real prosecutorial experience to prosecute this kind of a case, a rico case a complex case that involves public corruption. you want somebody that's leading the team. he's the lead prosecutor. you want somebody leading that team that knows how to do this, that has that experience. but again, that to me is more optics. that's more a judgment call that's going to be really a distraction for her as she goes through this hearing that's now scheduled for the 15th. i don't think it's actually going to result in anything happening with respect to dismissing the indictment or disqualifying either of them. >> yeah, just to reference the 15th, that is when willis and wade are subpoenaed to testify in a hearing involving motions to disqualify them from the election interference case. just so people know that. let me read to you and just get your reaction to based on all of your experience one other notation by willis, and she's talking about some of the other people involved in this case, willis notes there are personal relationships among some of the lawyers, amanda clark palmer for

clark, scot grubman for chesebro, jenna ellis's attorneys are married, and she writes the state has not brought these relationships to the court's attention as a potential conflict because, one, consistent with the long-standing georgia authority cited above and including jones v. jones, there is no legal conflict raised by these personal relationships, and two, until the motion was filed, the private lives of the attorney participants in this trial were not a topic of discussion. does she have a point? >> well, yes and no. again, as to whether there is an actual conflict of interest here, they're on the same side. it's not as though she is involved with somebody who's on the other side that could create a impermissible conflict where their interests are not aligned. you know, she's not -- she's not involved with anybody that's a third party to the case that, again, could be affecting their

judgment. so given that they're on the same side, i would tend to agree it doesn't create a conflict. but it does create a potential ethics issue. as ms. willis said a few years back, she was on video making a statement that she would -- something to the effect of that she would not date anybody within her office, and there's a good reason for that because, again, there are -- there are certain ethics violations and presumably procedures within the office about superior dating somebody who's their subordinate. so again, is there a conflict for this case? i don't see it. but are there real ethics issues that this could raise? potentially yes, and that's why i'm curious to see if she actually addresses and answers the question whether or not she is in a relationship with him. it seemed that would be the first place to start. if she did have any kind of benefit from him taking her on trips, you know, did she reimburse him for those plane tickets that the records seem to

show that he paid for her for. so those are questions that, again, i would want to see in this submission, if she answers. if she did 170 pages and didn't answer the question of whether or not she has a relationship with him, that would strike me as a bizarre dodge of a central question that needs to be answered here. >> so blayne, let me go back to you. we've been talking for a few minutes. i don't know if you've heard anything from your sources or had a chance to look through this document? >> i've had a chance to read some more. i think i want to read something that seems like it's a key passage. she writes here on page 7, the affidavit also clarifies that although d.a. willis and special prosecutor wade have been professional associates and friends since 2019, there was no personal relationship between them in november of 2021 at the time of special prosecutor wade's appointment and defendants offer no support for their insistence that the exercise of any prosecutorial discretion in this case was

impact bided by any personal relationship. wult without those additional factors the existence of a relationship between members of a team in and of itself is simply not a status that entitles a criminal defendant any remedy. georgia courts have held as much for decades in both civil and criminal context, personal relationships among lawyers everyone on opposing sides of litigation do not constitute impermissible conflicts of interest. so what we hear from that there is that there was no relationship at the genesis of this, at the genesis of wade's involvement with this case when he was first hired. then you can kind of go on to read from that what you will, how she says even if there was a relationship later, that does not constitute wrongdoing. now, i think it's a couple of things, i want to respond to calm of things we've been discussion discussing. nathan wade was brought on before this officially was a rico case. he was brought on as somebody who was to be leading the prs of the special grand jury. he was leading that investigation. he was present for most of, if not all of the special grand

jury hearings and meetings and testimony that they heard over the course of eight or nine months, and so that really was his kind of role initially as he was brought into this, and then of course as the indictments were handed up, these were rico charges. a couple of other things i want to point out. when i've been speaking with people who have familiarity with fani willis over the past few weeks, it's almost an impossibility to believe that she would recuse herself from this case. that's been something that a lot of people have been questioning. will she or won't she step away. the sources i've been talking to say that's almost an impossibility. that's not the case. the other option is if the judge decides that, yes, something improper happened and she and of course her office should be removed from the case. if that does happen, though, you have to remember what would happen next. it would be assigned to a neighboring district attorney. the issue is who would want to take that case? we're in the state of georgia. there are only a limited number of blue counties and blue d.a.s and people who would wanted to

take this. fani willis has been very public about what she has faced. she's faced racist language, she's had to move out of her home. her daughters have been threatened. that raises the question of if if the case is moved out of the fulton county d.a.'s offices, it would certainly be a tall hill to climb to try and find another prosecutor in the state who would want to take it on, chris. >> blayne alexander and kristy greenberg on this breaking news. you guys are amazing. thank you so much. we appreciate it. a deal has been reached on the border. we will bring you what we know right after the break, and closing arguments have just started in the jennifer crumbley case, a report from outside the courthouse coming up. from outs courthouse coming up

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a major development on capitol hill, senate negotiators say they have a border deal worked out. majority leader chuck schumer says the text of that bipartisan bill will likely be released before the end of the weekend. and he plans to schedule a first vote on it next week. but as lawmakers await the text, criticism continues to grow among some republicans about their far right colleagues, who say they're against the bill that they haven't even read. >> so if we have a bill that decreases illegal immigration, that's an if, right? we need to see what's in it, but if we have a bill that on net significantly decreases illegal

immigration, and we sabotage that, that is inconsistent with what we told our voters we would do. what's with all the maneuvering, are you trying to torpedo the bill? >> this bill is just a bigger piece of a bigger funding request from president biden that asks for aid to ukraine and israel. democrats were willing to give on the border to get that aid money, but now it may not work. nbc's julie tsirkin is reporting from capitol hill, michael steele is back with us. what do we know so far, julie, about this bill, and then what are the next steps? >> reporter: ending illegal immigration or decreasing illegal immigration between the ports of entry is precisely the goal of this bill. that's according to numerous conversations i've had with the people writing the text, the people negotiating the policy, and the negotiators hope to achieve this in sort of three ways, right? first they're going to raise the threshold by which migrants can seek asylum.

second, they're going to put an end to catch and releasing meaning if they do encounter migrants between the ports of entry, they're not just going to release them into the interior of the country telling them, all right, your court cases are months and years away from now. instead they're going to enforce detention or an alternative to detention, monitoring them by the government until they have that court case which under this legislation would be completed within 90 days or six months. so significantly faster than we've been seeing in the last couple of years. congress certainly has a role to play when it comes to legislating this. the other part of this is of course enforcing a mechanism by which they could shut the border down if those numbers grow much too high. all of that being said, critics of this bill have not seen the bill text yet, and that is exactly the point that senator kyrsten sinema, one of the negotiators behind this bill made to us this week. listen. >> how much of the text has been seen by senators? >> none, so the criticism are based on rumors and

misconceptions. i did a big scrum yesterday where i talked about the actual facts of what our legislation does. what many people have been talking about are factual inaccuracies based on rumors and not understanding the issue, which i under -- i get because the text isn't out. i would just ask that folks consider reading the text before making a decision about what the text does or doesn't do. >> reporter: chris, i was in that scrum that sinema was referring to. we actually had fact checked some of these claims that republicans are making including speaker johnson and the former president specifically when it comes to that 5,000 a day number you keep hearing. this bill would put an end to catch and release. the whole goal is to prevent that from going forward, nonetheless, you always have politics in the mix, so until these lawmakers see this bill text including speaker johnson who has not seen the text of the bill, according to his office, they really are making these calculations based on rumors swirling about and some that are

being propagated by former president trump himself. >> michael, let's take a step back if we can. congress has failed for more than two decades to reform immigration. we're about to see the latest attempt. it's a bipartisan agreement. negotiators from both sides support it. how significant an opportunity is this moment? >> take the win. take the win. this is a moment that, you know, when you stop and think about it is very clarifying. democrats and republicans have negotiated a conservative border bill. it does a lot of the things that a lot of these republicans in the house in particular have been yammering about for years, and quite frankly, did nothing about when trump was president. they had the senate and they had the house. there was no border bill. there was no attempt to really address the systemic issues around the size of our work

force, our border security force on the ground, the use of technology, putting in play a catch and release strategy that eliminated something that had been a threat throughout republican and democratic administrations for the last 25 or 30 years. so this addressed all of that. take the win. oh, but wait a minute, donald trump said i don't want to take the win for republicans because joe biden also gets to share in that win. so the politics now drives the moment to senator crenshaw's point that allows them to fund-raise negatively off of it, right? and to put their base in a position to hammer against something that to the expert or thing -- reporting tells you no one's seen yet, no one knows. how do you criticize something that you don't even know what's in it and then you look at it from what we're being told, it will contain pretty much

everything you've been yammering about. take the win. >> is the calculation, though, michael that donald trump remains more dangerous than what a lot of folks believe including people within the republican party that if republicans sink this deal, that's going to sink any chances they have, for example, to hold the house. >> they've already lost the house. take the deal. you're not winning those five congressional seats you took in new york two years ago. that itch is gone, take the deal. you've got republicans in the house talking about we have nothing to run on in our districts. take the deal. >> so if i was a -- if you were a betting man, if you were a betting man, what are the cans -- chances that they take your advice? >> they'll take the deal. they'll take the deal because there is no other end game here because, guess what, if you don't take the deal, guess who gets the blame for the border

problems that happen between now and november? if there's any surge at the border between now and november, that's on republicans in the house. if there's any problem, someone gets hurt, killed, whatever, governor, you know, of texas does something stupid again with razor wire and people get injured, there's a drowning, whatever happens, it's on republicans at this point. take the deal because on the other side of this deal is a wasteland of hurt, and it's on you when you enter that wasteland knowingly having not taken the deal. >> julie tsirkin, thank you, michael steele, when folks ask me about people i work with, i always say, you know, michael steele, he's smart, but he doesn't have a lot of energy, so i wish he'd get a little more worked up now and again, you know what else i tell them -- >> well, julie got me fired up. >> sincerely what i have been telling people, anybody who will listen, your new show "the

weekend" is awesome. it's so good. this is the show that michael hosts along with symone sanders townsend townsend, alicia menendez. i think you guys are great together, people can watch it right here on msnbc. >> thank you. right now closing arguments are underway in jennifer crumbley's involuntary manslaughter trial. crumbley herself faced cross examination earlier today by prosecutors, and they asked her about her son's mental health. >> you had told us that you had never taken your son to any sort of mental health professional. >> no. >> okay. but you know how to obtain that help? >> correct. >> in fact, you have prescriptions related to that? >> i do. >> it's not that you didn't know who to call or how to call. you didn't. >> correct. >> nbc's adrienne broaddus is outside the courthouse for us in pontiac, michigan. from the little bit i was able to see and hear, it sounds like she took a bit of a grilling.

the stakes here are tremendously high, not just for her but for future cases including her husband's. tell us what you saw and heard today. >> reporter: the stakes are high, and at the start of her closing argument just moments ago, the prosecuting attorney acknowledged that, and she told members of the jury as she makes the case it's their last opportunity to make a case in front of members of this jury that she does not want to sanitize the truth. she doesn't want to sanitize what happened on november 30th, 2021, at oxford high school. now, the prosecutor's saying and reminding members of the jury that the gun ethan crumbley used was a gift given to him by his parents for christmas, that jennifer crumbley, the prosecutor says taught him to shoot and even bragged about it on social media. and during that cross examination, chris, what you talked about, there was more discussion about that gun because yesterday jennifer

crumbley testified she wasn't responsible for the gun. it was her husband's responsibility. listen in. >> i know him and my husband had discussed getting a 9 millimeters. >> you knew about them? >> i knew, but not that he was so -- however you described it. >> i said he consistently had a desire to obtain a weapon? >> i know they consistently talked about it, correct. >>. not just talking about this is a gun, he talked about how he wanted the gun. you're not denying that? >> no. >> reporter: and once again, prosecutors in their final -- their closing arguments making the case, jennifer crumbley did not pull the trigger on that day when those four students were killed, but they are saying she is responsible for their deaths saying she could have prevented their deaths had she paid more attention to her son compared to the attention she gave to her animals. chris. >> adrienne broaddus, thank you so much. tomorrow is primary day for south carolina democrats, which means we have our own steve

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because this is who we are. it may sound counterintuitive, but president biden is paying a lot of attention to a state pretty much no one thinks he'll win in november. talking about south carolina, which is holding the democratic primary only tomorrow, which he will surely win, but for the general election, well, south

carolina has been reliably red for half a century, so why is he giving it so much time and attention? "the washington post" says the president sees that state as an important stage for sending a message to skeptical black voters across the country, arguably his most critical voting block. msnbc's trymaine lee is reporting from charleston, south carolina. we've talked a lot about, i have reported a lot about the black woman vote, but you spoke to black male voters there ahead of the primary. tell me about it. >> reporter: that's right, chris. black voters are poised to play a big role in the 2024 election, black male voters in particular. and while there was a lot of excitement among black voters here in south carolina during the 2019 primaries which catapulted joe biden to the white house, this time around there's some polling to suggest and some conversations that have been ahead about a waning excitement among black male voters in particular, and some say some of those black voters could be in play for donald trump and the republicans. so i wanted to sit down with a

group of these guys to really see if their excitement had waned enough for them to consider donald trump. let's take a listen. is there a possibility that any of you could either vote for donald trump or some third party candidate? is that a possibility? >> not right now. >> not for me. >> not right now. >> i can't personally see me ever voting for donald trump, especially what happened with -- on the capitol. >> i don't see a world personally where i would vote for donald trump ever, so a third-party candidate, yeah. >> cornell west has a name in the black community, many of us grew up reading dr. cornell west. >> you know, i'm a fan of him personally. politically, i'm not not there him yet. >> there is some appeal there for some black men with trump. what is it? >> money. >> money? >> yeah. i mean, donald trump has a reputation of being the money

man, so. >> beyond the projection of a businessman, what is it that is appealing for so many black people, black men especially? >> i just think that donald trump in spite of all the craziness he may have in his head, reading some of the things that he talks about with business, i can kind of agree with as far as business-wise. i'm trying to grow my business. as far as biden, i haven't seen biden really care about business like that. and my concern is having my business so that i can build generational wealth so my kids can see and have something to take upon when i'm not here. >> a lot of people admire the persona, and they want to be him, you know, they want to enjoy the perks that he has. he seems to always be able to

circumvent the rules. >> i think there's a lot of, generationally speaking, i think there's probably some familiarity with what he used to be. >> i don't really know why people are riding for trump like that. >> you're hearing that too. there's some people in your or orbit who are voting for donald trump or considering it. >> a lot of my friends, we've only voted once, you know, for president. and trump is kind of all we know. and trump and biden, they're like, well, we were broke with biden, we weren't with trump, and that's kind of the only thing that i'm hearing over and over again is that, well, trump, we had money. well, okay, i hear you guys, but personally, morally, i couldn't see myself. >> reporter: chris, in the conversations i have been having, you know, these voters fall in three camps, those who

will vote for biden, kind of with a lack of excitement. those who are considering voting for donald trump, and those who are considering sitting out all together and it's the last group that maybe troubling for a lot of folks to pay attention to this stuff. >> thank you so much. and i want to let people know this sunday there's an msnbc special report "black men in america road to 2024," taking a look at the country through the eyes of the overlooked voting bloc, black men. for a deeper dive into the latest poll numbers just ahead of tomorrow's primary, nbc's national political correspondent steve kornacki is at the big board. what have you got for us? >> i don't have poll numbers. it's not considered a very competitive race, but this is in south carolina tomorrow the first time you're going to have -- remember, joe biden has two challengers, dean phillips and mary williams. this is the first time biden's

name will be on the ballot. biden does not want new hampshire to be going first in the democratic process. if you schedule it first, you don't get delegates at the convention. he wants south carolina first. this is the first time he's going to be on the ballot with him. getting at that in his report, it was south carolina that saved joe biden. he did nothing in iowa, nothing in new hampshire, little in nevada, and suddenly he had this massive win in south carolina that changed the entire democratic race, and obviously ultimately helped biden become the president, and the big reason biden did so well in 2020 was the african-american vote. more than half of the electorate, biden, look at that, winning 61%. bernie sanders completely failing to move up from where he'd been before, and this has been the story of modern south carolina democratic primaries, win the black vote, win the state. hillary clinton beat sanders by 72 points. she won the state overwhelmingly in 2008. this is a huge breakthrough for

obama. he had lost new hampshire, lost nevada to hillary clinton. he got nearly 80% of the black vote. won the state overwhelmingly, it gave him a head of steam similar to biden in 2020. we're going to look here. we won't have exit polls but the areas of high concentrations of black voters. what's the turnout relative to the rest of the state. it's really tough to find a benchmark for biden's performance tomorrow, and there are two reasons for this, really. the first is simply this. this is turnout in past south carolina democratic primaries, but i think the key is this, take a look at 1996. take a look at 2012, this is when bill clinton was running for reelection, barack obama was running for reelection. the tradition in south carolina for both the democrats and the reasons is if you have an incumbent running for reelection, you cancel the primary. biden is the first incumbent democratic president to actually face a south carolina democratic primary. we really have no comparison for what the turnout might be like

for this thing. there's only been one president who has actually had to face a primary in south carolina. you got to go way back to 1992, george bush sr., challenged by pat buchanan. he was also challenged by david duke, the ex-klansman. if you remember, buchanan had done well in terms of expectations in new hampshire. this is a very disappointing showing for buchanan. david duke did get 7%. that's the point of comparison. we did see biden as a write in do well in new hampshire. no reason to think he's not going to do better with his name on the ballot in south carolina. the other implication for this, remember, the republican primary, still three weeks away, new poll here this week from monmouth. donald trump leading nikki haley, 58-32 in her home state. we know the importance of south carolina to nikki haley in having any chance to keep this thing going, and we know the particular importance of independence and democrats.

she's counting on them to come out in huge numbers for her. here's the rule in south carolina, if you vote in tomorrow's democratic primary, anybody can do it, there's no party registration in south carolina. nobody's officially registered with any party. so anybody can vote in that democratic primary, but if you vote in tomorrow's democratic primary, you cannot vote in the february 24th republican primary. so haley, i think, is going to be watching these results closely tomorrow because in theory, this is a importantlily furrow group of voters for her that are turning out tomorrow. the higher the turnout number tomorrow, the more discouraging for haley because it's a pool of voters she's look to go tap into. >> something to watch as always, from steve kornacki, thank you so much. president biden is attending the dignified transfer in delaware, that is the three soldiers who were killed in a drone strike. we will have the latest on the solemn event in just a moment. we'll be right back. so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level.

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